Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As the crucial Brussels talks go into day 2 it’s far from c

12467

Comments

  • Options
    Alistair said:

    I'd think Waterloo beats out Dunkirk as famous British military action.

    Although without the Prussians it wouldn't have been.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,969
    edited February 2016

    rcs1000 said:

    JonathanD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Laura K put it well - he told us he was happy with the draft weeks ago and that he would join on that basis. But now he is having to give up his sausage, egg, chips and beans (and a slice) because that draft has evidently been watered down dramatically.

    How can that be portrayed as a victory?

    We portrayed the evacuation at Dunkerque as a truly great victory.
    No we didn't. From Churchill's Dunkirk speech: "We must be very careful not to assign to this deliverance the attributes of a victory. Wars are not won by evacuations."
    Some of the media did.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/dunkirk/774417.stm
    That's the media for you. Dunkirk spirit everywhere.
    Makes us proud to be British that our two most famous military exploits were Dunkirk, which was a retreat, and the Charge of the Light Brigade, which was a fiasco.
    Normandy is more famous than both of those put together.
    Although if we're going to be honest, that was more of an American operation than a British one.

    We can claim the Battle of Britain however!

    With a bit of Polish, Czech & Commonwealth help.
    There were even one or two French fliers I believe.

    But the vast, vast majority were British,
    There were also, whisper it, twenty or thirty Belgian fighter pilots flying in the RAF during the BoB.
    The ones I have always had a huge admiration for were the 10 Irish pilots along with the thousands of Irish who fought in the British forces generally in WW2. Some 5000 joined the British army, most of them regulars from the Irish army. When they returned home after the war they were formally dismissed from the Irish army, stripped of all pay and pension rights, and prevented from finding work by being banned for seven years from any employment paid for by state or government funds.

    A heavy price to pay for doing what they thought was right in fighting fascism.
  • Options

    Pulpstar said:

    Why is Rudd trending on Twitter - has she been wheeled out as the latest human shield for Dave ?

    Apparently poor performance on Radio 4 this morning.

    I think she was spinning Dave's performance as the greatest victory by an Old Etonian Tory PM since the Battle of Waterloo
    No, she played a pretty straight bat. On-message, certainly, but articulate. She'll have come over well to non-partisan listeners.

    Obviously the usual suspects will hate her, but that's because she's in favour of us remaining in the EU.

    I'm happy with my 80-1 on her for next leader.
    She won't be next leader.

    Did you hear Owen Paterson? Still rate him?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,875

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Laura K put it well - he told us he was happy with the draft weeks ago and that he would join on that basis. But now he is having to give up his sausage, egg, chips and beans (and a slice) because that draft has evidently been watered down dramatically.

    How can that be portrayed as a victory?

    We portrayed the evacuation at Dunkerque as a truly great victory.
    No we didn't. From Churchill's Dunkirk speech: "We must be very careful not to assign to this deliverance the attributes of a victory. Wars are not won by evacuations."
    Some of the media did.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/dunkirk/774417.stm
    That's the media for you. Dunkirk spirit everywhere.
    Makes us proud to be British that our two most famous military exploits were Dunkirk, which was a retreat, and the Charge of the Light Brigade, which was a fiasco.
    Normandy is more famous than both of those put together.
    To say nothing of the Battle of Britain and Trafalgar.
    Don't forget the Anglo-Zanzibar war.
    The Opium Wars - a high point...
    That's worthy of exile to ConHome
    I'm disappointed we failed to open a can of whoop-ass on the USA in the war of 1812.

    Ok, we burnt the White House but that was due to crass American incompetence. We could have grabbed Maine and Vermont for Canada.
    We should have treated them like Carthage.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091



    On the EU summit, as your local EU specialist I predict it'll end with a deal this evening or tomorrow morning. It won't run to Sunday.

    Quite. I can't believe everyone is falling for the theatrics of this, yet again. It's quite clearly just being engineered to make the negotiations look tougher than they are so that it seems at the end of it that's a really great deal, and that Cameron "banged the table" like the strong leader he supposedly is.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Laura K put it well - he told us he was happy with the draft weeks ago and that he would join on that basis. But now he is having to give up his sausage, egg, chips and beans (and a slice) because that draft has evidently been watered down dramatically.

    How can that be portrayed as a victory?

    We portrayed the evacuation at Dunkerque as a truly great victory.
    No we didn't. From Churchill's Dunkirk speech: "We must be very careful not to assign to this deliverance the attributes of a victory. Wars are not won by evacuations."
    Some of the media did.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/dunkirk/774417.stm
    That's the media for you. Dunkirk spirit everywhere.
    Makes us proud to be British that our two most famous military exploits were Dunkirk, which was a retreat, and the Charge of the Light Brigade, which was a fiasco.
    Normandy is more famous than both of those put together.
    To say nothing of the Battle of Britain and Trafalgar.
    Don't forget the Anglo-Zanzibar war.
    The Opium Wars - a high point...
    Off to CiF with you for a week!
    He'll come back lauding the Battle of Orgreave against the hated dictator.
    LOL!
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Has Boris "come off the fence" today yet, as he promised to do?

    He said he's waiting for the deal - so could be years..
  • Options

    JonathanD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Laura K put it well - he told us he was happy with the draft weeks ago and that he would join on that basis. But now he is having to give up his sausage, egg, chips and beans (and a slice) because that draft has evidently been watered down dramatically.

    How can that be portrayed as a victory?

    We portrayed the evacuation at Dunkerque as a truly great victory.
    No we didn't. From Churchill's Dunkirk speech: "We must be very careful not to assign to this deliverance the attributes of a victory. Wars are not won by evacuations."
    Some of the media did.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/dunkirk/774417.stm
    That's the media for you. Dunkirk spirit everywhere.
    Makes us proud to be British that our two most famous military exploits were Dunkirk, which was a retreat, and the Charge of the Light Brigade, which was a fiasco.
    Normandy is more famous than both of those put together.
    Although if we're going to be honest, that was more of an American operation than a British one.

    We can claim the Battle of Britain however!

    With a bit of Polish, Czech & Commonwealth help.
    If you look at the list of those who fought for the RAF at the end of the Battle of Britain film, there is a single American. I often wonder what his story was...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Fiske

    Appears there were more than one, but some enlisted as 'Canadians'. Wonder if that would have invalidated a POTUS bid?

  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,760
    Alistair said:

    I'd think Waterloo beats out Dunkirk as famous British military action.

    Only 15% of the Winning side were Brits, the majority were German
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    JonathanD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Laura K put it well - he told us he was happy with the draft weeks ago and that he would join on that basis. But now he is having to give up his sausage, egg, chips and beans (and a slice) because that draft has evidently been watered down dramatically.

    How can that be portrayed as a victory?

    We portrayed the evacuation at Dunkerque as a truly great victory.
    No we didn't. From Churchill's Dunkirk speech: "We must be very careful not to assign to this deliverance the attributes of a victory. Wars are not won by evacuations."
    Some of the media did.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/dunkirk/774417.stm
    That's the media for you. Dunkirk spirit everywhere.
    Makes us proud to be British that our two most famous military exploits were Dunkirk, which was a retreat, and the Charge of the Light Brigade, which was a fiasco.
    Normandy is more famous than both of those put together.
    Although if we're going to be honest, that was more of an American operation than a British one.

    We can claim the Battle of Britain however!

    With a bit of Polish, Czech & Commonwealth help.
    There were even one or two French fliers I believe.

    But the vast, vast majority were British,
    There were also, whisper it, twenty or thirty Belgian fighter pilots flying in the RAF during the BoB.
    The ones I have always had a huge admiration for were the 10 Irish pilots along with the thousands of Irish who fought in the British forces generally in WW2. Some 5000 joined the British army, most of them regulars from the Irish army. When they returned home after the war they were formally dismissed from the Irish army, stripped of all pay and pension rights, and prevented from finding work by being banned for seven years from any employment paid for by state or government funds.

    A heavy price to pay for doing what they thought was right in fighting fascism.
    I didn't know that.

    Hopefully the UK government at some point made it up to them.

  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    runnymede said:

    Although if we're going to be honest, that was more of an American operation than a British one.

    Too many US movies being watched...

    IIRC it was about 50% Americans, 35% British, 15% Commonwealth, but I could be wrong
    Apparently around 73,000 US, 62,000 British and 21,000 Canadians. That is the men who actually landed on the day but as others have said the vast majority of the naval and air units were British as well.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited February 2016
    Indigo said:

    Looks like Maria Caulfield MP is a Leaver.

    The EU can destroy our communities by fiat from Brussels. Sorry, but I'm out
    David Cameron's deal is little more than a gentleman's agreement between states which can choose to break their word whenever convenient
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12163120/The-EU-can-destroy-our-communities-by-fiat-from-Brussels.-Sorry-but-Im-out.html

    Yes, definitely she's a Leaver.

    She's a great MP. The success in Lewes owes a huge amount to her personally - she put in a massive amount of effort with a tiny team and very limted resources for most of the last parliamentary term. Only towards the end did CCHQ start taking her chances seriously and put more resources in.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Good SC poll for Rubio

    ARG 2/17 - 2/18 401 LV T34 C13 R22 B9 K14 C4
  • Options

    She won't be next leader.

    Did you hear Owen Paterson? Still rate him?

    No, I didn't hear him. How did he come over?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    Sean_F said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Laura K put it well - he told us he was happy with the draft weeks ago and that he would join on that basis. But now he is having to give up his sausage, egg, chips and beans (and a slice) because that draft has evidently been watered down dramatically.

    How can that be portrayed as a victory?

    We portrayed the evacuation at Dunkerque as a truly great victory.
    No we didn't. From Churchill's Dunkirk speech: "We must be very careful not to assign to this deliverance the attributes of a victory. Wars are not won by evacuations."
    Some of the media did.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/dunkirk/774417.stm
    That's the media for you. Dunkirk spirit everywhere.
    Makes us proud to be British that our two most famous military exploits were Dunkirk, which was a retreat, and the Charge of the Light Brigade, which was a fiasco.
    Normandy is more famous than both of those put together.
    To say nothing of the Battle of Britain and Trafalgar.
    Don't forget the Anglo-Zanzibar war.
    The Opium Wars - a high point...
    That's worthy of exile to ConHome
    I'm disappointed we failed to open a can of whoop-ass on the USA in the war of 1812.

    Ok, we burnt the White House but that was due to crass American incompetence. We could have grabbed Maine and Vermont for Canada.
    We should have treated them like Carthage.
    America is quite a big area to salt.

    Apart from the salt flats. Obviously, a battalion of plucky British sappers got there first....
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,044

    rcs1000 said:

    runnymede said:

    Although if we're going to be honest, that was more of an American operation than a British one.

    Too many US movies being watched...

    IIRC it was about 50% Americans, 35% British, 15% Commonwealth, but I could be wrong
    Apparently around 73,000 US, 62,000 British and 21,000 Canadians. That is the men who actually landed on the day but as others have said the vast majority of the naval and air units were British as well.
    Not a bad estimate from me, then :lol:
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    JonathanD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Laura K put it well - he told us he was happy with the draft weeks ago and that he would join on that basis. But now he is having to give up his sausage, egg, chips and beans (and a slice) because that draft has evidently been watered down dramatically.

    How can that be portrayed as a victory?

    We portrayed the evacuation at Dunkerque as a truly great victory.
    No we didn't. From Churchill's Dunkirk speech: "We must be very careful not to assign to this deliverance the attributes of a victory. Wars are not won by evacuations."
    Some of the media did.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/dunkirk/774417.stm
    That's the media for you. Dunkirk spirit everywhere.
    Makes us proud to be British that our two most famous military exploits were Dunkirk, which was a retreat, and the Charge of the Light Brigade, which was a fiasco.
    Normandy is more famous than both of those put together.
    Although if we're going to be honest, that was more of an American operation than a British one.

    We can claim the Battle of Britain however!

    With a bit of Polish, Czech & Commonwealth help.
    There were even one or two French fliers I believe.

    But the vast, vast majority were British,
    There were also, whisper it, twenty or thirty Belgian fighter pilots flying in the RAF during the BoB.
    The ones I have always had a huge admiration for were the 10 Irish pilots along with the thousands of Irish who fought in the British forces generally in WW2. Some 5000 joined the British army, most of them regulars from the Irish army. When they returned home after the war they were formally dismissed from the Irish army, stripped of all pay and pension rights, and prevented from finding work by being banned for seven years from any employment paid for by state or government funds.

    A heavy price to pay for doing what they thought was right in fighting fascism.
    Éamon De Valera was a real shit.

    Sending his condolences (WTF?) to the Germans on Hitler's death as the Red Army were battering down at the doors of the Reichstag.
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Mr, Royale,

    Not only did we redecorate the White House during the 1812 skirmish, but when the Septics invaded Canada, even the francophones said "Non, monsieur, nous prefer les Rosbifs."
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,552
    edited February 2016

    Alistair said:

    I'd think Waterloo beats out Dunkirk as famous British military action.

    Only 15% of the Winning side were Brits, the majority were German
    Remarkable what an Old Etonian Tory PM can achieve.

    Dave and Frau Merkel should have united to take on les grenouilles
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    Sean_F said:

    "Brexit fundamentalists"? Nice measured language there, OGH.

    I'm surprised, and not a little disappointed how quickly this debate has taken on the grievance and demonising language of SINDYREF....how long before 'Quisling', 'Traitor', 'No-True Briton' and so forth.....there have been some remarkable transformations of previously sensible, temperate and level headed posters....
    "Turnip" "Cretin" "Moron" will hopefully get an airing.
    I will not be praising the Little Englanders old chap.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    She won't be next leader.

    Did you hear Owen Paterson? Still rate him?

    No, I didn't hear him. How did he come over?
    Why do you think Patterson is better than Fox? They both seem much of a muchness to me.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    Alistair said:

    I'd think Waterloo beats out Dunkirk as famous British military action.

    Only 15% of the Winning side were Brits, the majority were German
    Alan , they will anoint anyone as a Brit if it means they win something for a change.
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Mr Royale,

    "Éamon De Valera was a real shit."

    The Yanks again - he was born in New York. And he did for Michael Collins too.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Says the Little Scotlander :wink:
    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    "Brexit fundamentalists"? Nice measured language there, OGH.

    I'm surprised, and not a little disappointed how quickly this debate has taken on the grievance and demonising language of SINDYREF....how long before 'Quisling', 'Traitor', 'No-True Briton' and so forth.....there have been some remarkable transformations of previously sensible, temperate and level headed posters....
    "Turnip" "Cretin" "Moron" will hopefully get an airing.
    I will not be praising the Little Englanders old chap.
  • Options
    I see the World War Two metaphors are coming in thick and fast today.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'Hopefully the UK government at some point made it up to them. '

    Well the great news is that a mere seventy years later the Irish authorities pardoned them for the appalling crime of wanting to fight Hitler.
  • Options
    RodCrosby said:

    Good SC poll for Rubio

    ARG 2/17 - 2/18 401 LV T34 C13 R22 B9 K14 C4

    Hmm. There seems to be a pattern of these.

    Cause for concern?
  • Options



    I didn't know that.

    Hopefully the UK government at some point made it up to them.

    Not sure about the British response but staggeringly it was only 2013 that the Dail passed a law granting amnesty and immunity from prosecution to anyone who fought for the British in WW2. Up to 3 years ago they could still theoretically face criminal charges for it under Irish law.
  • Options

    She won't be next leader.

    Did you hear Owen Paterson? Still rate him?

    No, I didn't hear him. How did he come over?
    Afraid I didn't catch him either.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,965
    RodCrosby said:

    Good SC poll for Rubio

    ARG 2/17 - 2/18 401 LV T34 C13 R22 B9 K14 C4

    Might be able to spend £2 on Jeb if that's the result.
  • Options
    Danny565 said:

    She won't be next leader.

    Did you hear Owen Paterson? Still rate him?

    No, I didn't hear him. How did he come over?
    Why do you think Patterson is better than Fox? They both seem much of a muchness to me.
    Paterson is more intelligent, but more importantly Fox proved to be flaky. He also made a hash of the only important task he's ever been given, namely the Strategic Defence Review. Since he had been Shadow Defence Minister, he should have done much more homework before the 2010 election (as other Shadow Ministers did in their respective roles).

    In other words, it's not his political positioning, but his competence which is the problem.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,965

    RodCrosby said:

    Good SC poll for Rubio

    ARG 2/17 - 2/18 401 LV T34 C13 R22 B9 K14 C4

    Hmm. There seems to be a pattern of these.

    Cause for concern?
    Depends on your book I guess ^^;
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,235
    edited February 2016



    I didn't know that.

    Hopefully the UK government at some point made it up to them.

    Not sure about the British response but staggeringly it was only 2013 that the Dail passed a law granting amnesty and immunity from prosecution to anyone who fought for the British in WW2. Up to 3 years ago they could still theoretically face criminal charges for it under Irish law.
    I think it was only those who were previously serving in the Irish army, though I agree it still wasn't very creditable of the Irish government.
  • Options

    I see the World War Two metaphors are coming in thick and fast today.

    More accurately great military disaster metaphors. It just so happens that the ones most people know of are from WW2.
  • Options

    I see the World War Two metaphors are coming in thick and fast today.

    Messaged you.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,352
    Danny565 said:



    On the EU summit, as your local EU specialist I predict it'll end with a deal this evening or tomorrow morning. It won't run to Sunday.

    Quite. I can't believe everyone is falling for the theatrics of this, yet again. It's quite clearly just being engineered to make the negotiations look tougher than they are so that it seems at the end of it that's a really great deal, and that Cameron "banged the table" like the strong leader he supposedly is.
    Sweden used to have a drama every 3 years when the equivalent of the CBI had a huge negotiation with the equivalent of the TUC on everyone's wages (I think it's become much less centralised these days). Normally, the negotiations would battle on all night until the two sides would stumble out in the morning, unshaven and haggard, to announce that they'd reached a deal. There would then be a vote of all workers on whether to accept it, and it would be carried, as people were satisfied that all that could be achieved had been fought for.

    One year, to everyone's surprise, they reached a deal by 8 the previous evening. Nonplussed, they debated what to do. If they just went out and announced it, it wouldn't look credible. So they put aside the final details, ordered in some crates of beer and played cards all night, before tidying up the details at 6am and stumbling out looking exhausted, etc. Amazingly, the story only got out some time later, after people had duly voted to agree.
  • Options
    I seem to recall from previous election rounds that ARG didn't have a great reputation among our American posters. Does that remain the case?
  • Options
    The single American in the Battle of Britain was Ben Affleck.

    I know this because I've seen Pearl Harbour. A titan of cinema.
  • Options
    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    I like politics but I find it hard to get motivated by the EU.

    I feel like apologising for my lack of spirit but for some reason it just doesn't do it for me..

    A bunch of suits glad-handing and congratulating eachother on being masters of the universe is just a fact of life. It will always be thus.

    It's all a bit MEH... doesn't motivate me at all.
  • Options
    @NickPalmer - Great story!
  • Options



    I didn't know that.

    Hopefully the UK government at some point made it up to them.

    Not sure about the British response but staggeringly it was only 2013 that the Dail passed a law granting amnesty and immunity from prosecution to anyone who fought for the British in WW2. Up to 3 years ago they could still theoretically face criminal charges for it under Irish law.
    I think it was only those who were previously serving in the Irish army, though I agree it still wasn't very creditable of the Irish government.
    Yes sorry you are right. It was only the serving soldiers in the Defence Force who were prosecuted.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,221
    edited February 2016
    John_N said:

    The key issue in the EU talks is the City of London. Cameron is the spivs' man.

    The key issue isn't immigration, or child benefits for immigrants, or "emergency brakes", or Polish people. They are being given lots of column inches so that Britgov can retain some favour in its home market if the other powers decide to boot Britain out of the club.

    French President François Hollande says there must be one set of rules “to fight against speculation”. Can you get it much clearer? That means no special rules for that monstrous creation on a square mile of East-Central London. No British government, and no newspaper with a wide circulation in Britain, has ever fought against the monster.

    I told you that the members of the French political elite remember John Law. They remember the Stavisky affair too.

    "France is concerned that the UK is seeking to carve out special protections for the City of London".

    Vive la France!

    3 points: the financial services sector is far wider than the City of London. It affects every financial product you and I use: mortgages, pensions, credit cards, bank accounts, insurance, ISAs etc etc.

    It is a very significant industry for this country and it is simply unacceptable for an ally to seek to damage it.

    Second, another word for "speculation" is "market", "investment" or "liquidity". "Speculation" is a word loaded with an assumption that what is being done is bad. And someone who approaches negotiations on that basis is not acting in good faith. They have an agenda. And that agenda would appear to be to tell another country how it should run or, indeed, whether it should have an industry at all.

    Finally, if you're going to refer to John Law and Stavisky, you are not helping your case at all. It was the development of a financial sector supporting commercial activity and enabling government to fund itself which was one of the key reasons why England developed from the 17th century onwards and was ultimately able to defeat France. It was France's failure to do so which was one of the factors behind its military defeats and one of the factors which led to the French revolution. The French state never managed to put on a sustainable basis how it was going to fund itself, never managed to develop an effective commercial sector and a middle class which might have helped sustain a more viable political entity.

    The Stavisky case was notable as an example of a strain in French thinking which lumped Jews, finance, speculation and conspiracies together. People who thought like that were keen on Vichy, Action Francaise and after the war some of them migrated to Poujadism and later to the FN. If that is the basis for France's approach to our finance sector, we should be worried not praising them.

  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited February 2016
    I managed to avoid Pearl Harbour. I did endure that great American heroes story Memphis Belle though.

    IIRC there weren't any US inmates present to make The Great Escape either.

    The single American in the Battle of Britain was Ben Affleck.

    I know this because I've seen Pearl Harbour. A titan of cinema.

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137

    JonathanD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Laura K put it well - he told us he was happy with the draft weeks ago and that he would join on that basis. But now he is having to give up his sausage, egg, chips and beans (and a slice) because that draft has evidently been watered down dramatically.

    How can that be portrayed as a victory?

    We portrayed the evacuation at Dunkerque as a truly great victory.
    No we didn't. From Churchill's Dunkirk speech: "We must be very careful not to assign to this deliverance the attributes of a victory. Wars are not won by evacuations."
    Some of the media did.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/dunkirk/774417.stm
    That's the media for you. Dunkirk spirit everywhere.
    Makes us proud to be British that our two most famous military exploits were Dunkirk, which was a retreat, and the Charge of the Light Brigade, which was a fiasco.
    Normandy is more famous than both of those put together.
    Although if we're going to be honest, that was more of an American operation than a British one.

    We can claim the Battle of Britain however!

    With a bit of Polish, Czech & Commonwealth help.
    If you look at the list of those who fought for the RAF at the end of the Battle of Britain film, there is a single American. I often wonder what his story was...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Fiske

    Appears there were more than one, but some enlisted as 'Canadians'. Wonder if that would have invalidated a POTUS bid?

    Many thanks for that. An Olympic gold medal winner too. And he started Aspen as a ski resort. A short but bright life. If I get to Boxgrove some time, I will doff my cap at his grave.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I quite liked Paterson until his hissy fit. Can't understand anyone thinking of Fox for anything.

    His personal judgement is dreadful.

    Danny565 said:

    She won't be next leader.

    Did you hear Owen Paterson? Still rate him?

    No, I didn't hear him. How did he come over?
    Why do you think Patterson is better than Fox? They both seem much of a muchness to me.
    Paterson is more intelligent, but more importantly Fox proved to be flaky. He also made a hash of the only important task he's ever been given, namely the Strategic Defence Review. Since he had been Shadow Defence Minister, he should have done much more homework before the 2010 election (as other Shadow Ministers did in their respective roles).

    In other words, it's not his political positioning, but his competence which is the problem.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Good SC poll for Rubio

    ARG 2/17 - 2/18 401 LV T34 C13 R22 B9 K14 C4

    Hmm. There seems to be a pattern of these.

    Cause for concern?
    Depends on your book I guess ^^;
    I could cover a big loss on Marco, and sacrifice a good £200 profit on Trump in the process, or strap myself or prepare for a bumpy ride.

    I'm relying on Trump as having a 70-80% shot and doing the latter!
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137

    I see the World War Two metaphors are coming in thick and fast today.

    More accurately great military disaster metaphors. It just so happens that the ones most people know of are from WW2.
    No-one has mentioned Suez yet....
  • Options

    I see the World War Two metaphors are coming in thick and fast today.

    More accurately great military disaster metaphors. It just so happens that the ones most people know of are from WW2.
    No-one has mentioned Suez yet....
    Well that was inevitable, I mean going to war alongside France is guaranteeing defeat.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    TGOHF said:

    Has Boris "come off the fence" today yet, as he promised to do?

    He said he's waiting for the deal - so could be years..
    He'll surely have to wait for the European Parliament to vote on it before announcing his position....

    (only half in jest!)
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098


    The ones I have always had a huge admiration for were the 10 Irish pilots along with the thousands of Irish who fought in the British forces generally in WW2. Some 5000 joined the British army, most of them regulars from the Irish army. When they returned home after the war they were formally dismissed from the Irish army, stripped of all pay and pension rights, and prevented from finding work by being banned for seven years from any employment paid for by state or government funds.

    A heavy price to pay for doing what they thought was right in fighting fascism.

    The British are the only people in the world that can be shits.

    On the subject of Irish volunteers in WW2 the history of the 38th Brigade will repay exploration. Made up of protestant and catholics from the North plus volunteers from the Free State, it was an ecumenical bunch which fought with great distinction in North Africa, Sicily and the length of Italy. On the way its Pipes and Drums Beat The Retreat in the Vatican, the Pipe Major being a Northern Presbyterian ("Not to worry, Sir we'll give wee Popie a blow") to the wild applause of the Irish seminarians. The Brigade commander was a Northern protestant but the Irish Tricolour was frequently flown at Brigade HQ. A marvellous, effective, eccentric unit well up there with the best traditions of the British Army.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,965

    Pulpstar said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Good SC poll for Rubio

    ARG 2/17 - 2/18 401 LV T34 C13 R22 B9 K14 C4

    Hmm. There seems to be a pattern of these.

    Cause for concern?
    Depends on your book I guess ^^;
    I could cover a big loss on Marco, and sacrifice a good £200 profit on Trump in the process, or strap myself or prepare for a bumpy ride.

    I'm relying on Trump as having a 70-80% shot and doing the latter!
    Objectively Marco's price pretty much has to be a lay. But it's potentially a dangerous game. If Bush goes out the race he could drop to a frankly ludicrous 2.9 or something.
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,041
    edited February 2016
    O/T AGW

    January 2016 was the warmest January ever recorded according to NOAA.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201601

    Arctic sea ice is also anomalously low - probably going to hit a recorded low for the maximum arctic sea-ice extent this year.

    https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

    Anyone want to bet against me on whether 2016 will be the warmest year ever recorded globally? The band of merry folk who like to band about terms such as "AGW trough" etc perhaps?
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Video

    "I'll only do a deal if we get what Britain needs" - Cameron arrives at the summit in Brussels for the second day
    https://t.co/wrV30Isqqi
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited February 2016
    One thing which puzzles me about the EU summit: isn't the fact that Spain hasn't currently got a proper government a bit of a problem?
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,221

    rcs1000 said:

    JonathanD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    That's the media for you. Dunkirk spirit everywhere.
    Makes us proud to be British that our two most famous military exploits were Dunkirk, which was a retreat, and the Charge of the Light Brigade, which was a fiasco.
    Normandy is more famous than both of those put together.
    Although if we're going to be honest, that was more of an American operation than a British one.

    We can claim the Battle of Britain however!

    With a bit of Polish, Czech & Commonwealth help.
    There were even one or two French fliers I believe.

    But the vast, vast majority were British,
    There were also, whisper it, twenty or thirty Belgian fighter pilots flying in the RAF during the BoB.
    The ones I have always had a huge admiration for were the 10 Irish pilots along with the thousands of Irish who fought in the British forces generally in WW2. Some 5000 joined the British army, most of them regulars from the Irish army. When they returned home after the war they were formally dismissed from the Irish army, stripped of all pay and pension rights, and prevented from finding work by being banned for seven years from any employment paid for by state or government funds.

    A heavy price to pay for doing what they thought was right in fighting fascism.

    My father, an Irishman, was a Squadron Leader in the RAF during WW2. He stayed in Britain after the war. His family had no time for De Valera at all. His uncle also fought in WW1: he too was a doctor and was in the RAMC and died in September 1915. I have his war diary. Another ancestor won an award from the French government for his medical work during the 1870 Franco-Prussian war.

    Interestingly, there is now a move within Ireland to collect the recollections of those Irish men and women who fought in both wars and to give them the recognition they deserve.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    murali_s said:


    https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

    Anyone want to bet against me on whether 2016 will be the warmest year ever recorded globally? The band of merry folk who like to band about terms such as "AGW trough" etc perhaps?

    No chance - these "scientists" have got too much invested in ensuring the figures are fiddled for that to fail.
  • Options

    runnymede said:

    We portrayed the evacuation at Dunkerque as a truly great victory.

    Well the actual equivalent of that would be a great thing, but this looks more like Arnhem

    Arnhem was "A Bridge Too Far" (about 3/4 bridges into German occupied territory); Cameron has barely put a few tentative steps onto the first bridge..
    Yep. Cameron's efforts are more like Dieppe.
    I thought we sacrificed many Canadian lads at Dieppe (was this not also a Mountbatten-inspired bungle?) .
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    SOMEBODY has bombed the shit out of ISIS in Libya - presumed the Yanks. I think Y0kel flagged this up the other day as shortly to kick off?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-35613085
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610

    One thing which puzzles me about the EU summit: isn't the fact that Spain hasn't currently got a proper government a bit of a problem?

    Probably just hoping to bounce whoever is there into it.
  • Options
    murali_s said:

    O/T AGW

    January 2016 was the warmest January ever recorded according to NOAA.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201601

    Arctic sea ice is also anomalously low - probably going to hit a recorded low for the maximum arctic sea-ice extent this year.

    https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

    Anyone want to bet against me on whether 2016 will be the warmest year ever recorded globally? The band of merry folk who like to band about terms such as "AGW trough" etc perhaps?

    El Nino year. Makes it meaningless just like the 1998 El Nino year. Any sensible climate student long ago learnt not to use such years as indicators of a trend. Of course you have never been in danger of being considered sensible so I understand your confusion.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    Danny565 said:



    On the EU summit, as your local EU specialist I predict it'll end with a deal this evening or tomorrow morning. It won't run to Sunday.

    Quite. I can't believe everyone is falling for the theatrics of this, yet again. It's quite clearly just being engineered to make the negotiations look tougher than they are so that it seems at the end of it that's a really great deal, and that Cameron "banged the table" like the strong leader he supposedly is.
    Sweden used to have a drama every 3 years when the equivalent of the CBI had a huge negotiation with the equivalent of the TUC on everyone's wages (I think it's become much less centralised these days). Normally, the negotiations would battle on all night until the two sides would stumble out in the morning, unshaven and haggard, to announce that they'd reached a deal. There would then be a vote of all workers on whether to accept it, and it would be carried, as people were satisfied that all that could be achieved had been fought for.

    One year, to everyone's surprise, they reached a deal by 8 the previous evening. Nonplussed, they debated what to do. If they just went out and announced it, it wouldn't look credible. So they put aside the final details, ordered in some crates of beer and played cards all night, before tidying up the details at 6am and stumbling out looking exhausted, etc. Amazingly, the story only got out some time later, after people had duly voted to agree.
    Brilliant. Good for them.

    I wonder, only half in jest, if really they're all sat around in Brussels watching movies with popcorn with the "deal" already signed off in a corner.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    SOMEBODY has bombed the shit out of ISIS in Libya - presumed the Yanks. I think Y0kel flagged this up the other day as shortly to kick off?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-35613085

    Is that good or bad for Hilary ?
  • Options

    Pulpstar said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Good SC poll for Rubio

    ARG 2/17 - 2/18 401 LV T34 C13 R22 B9 K14 C4

    Hmm. There seems to be a pattern of these.

    Cause for concern?
    Depends on your book I guess ^^;
    I could cover a big loss on Marco, and sacrifice a good £200 profit on Trump in the process, or strap myself or prepare for a bumpy ride.

    I'm relying on Trump as having a 70-80% shot and doing the latter!
    We could be seeing the effect of the SC governor endorsement. Too early to tell really, but encouraging for those of us on Rubio.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,356
    MaxPB said:

    Poor PSF figures this morning. January surplus of £11.2bn well under expectations of ~£13bn given the massive rise in self-employment.

    My payment probably didn't make it through until about the 2nd of Feb. I very much doubt I was alone, particularly as the 31st was a Sunday. I expect February figures to reflect that.
  • Options


    The ones I have always had a huge admiration for were the 10 Irish pilots along with the thousands of Irish who fought in the British forces generally in WW2. Some 5000 joined the British army, most of them regulars from the Irish army. When they returned home after the war they were formally dismissed from the Irish army, stripped of all pay and pension rights, and prevented from finding work by being banned for seven years from any employment paid for by state or government funds.

    A heavy price to pay for doing what they thought was right in fighting fascism.

    The British are the only people in the world that can be shits.

    On the subject of Irish volunteers in WW2 the history of the 38th Brigade will repay exploration. Made up of protestant and catholics from the North plus volunteers from the Free State, it was an ecumenical bunch which fought with great distinction in North Africa, Sicily and the length of Italy. On the way its Pipes and Drums Beat The Retreat in the Vatican, the Pipe Major being a Northern Presbyterian ("Not to worry, Sir we'll give wee Popie a blow") to the wild applause of the Irish seminarians. The Brigade commander was a Northern protestant but the Irish Tricolour was frequently flown at Brigade HQ. A marvellous, effective, eccentric unit well up there with the best traditions of the British Army.
    Brilliant HL. Many thanks for that. Being of Southern Irish protestant descent myself I do love such anecdotes.
  • Options

    One thing which puzzles me about the EU summit: isn't the fact that Spain hasn't currently got a proper government a bit of a problem?

    I can't answer that but it does lead to the next question of what rights do the heads of state have to finalise a deal this weekend? I don't mean that in any argumentative way, just a simple observation that I would have thought that in a number of cases any binding agreement would have to be approved by the Parliaments of at least some of the countries involved.

    Could we see agreement here then killed by a Parliament in one of the 27 countries voting it down? I don't know what the mechanism here is.
  • Options
    What is it about Richard Branson that's so similar to Tony Blair?

    Are they the same person?

    'Brexit' could cause break-up of EU, claims Richard Branson

    A UK exit from the European Union would be very damaging for its economy and could spell the end of the whole EU project, billionaire businessman Richard Branson has said.

    His comments come as Prime Minister David Cameron seeks a deal from other EU leaders at a summit in Brussels, that would allow him to argue for British membership at a referendum expected to be held in June.

    "It would be a very, very, very, very sad day if British people voted to leave. I think it would be very, very damaging for Great Britain," Mr Branson, founder of Virgin Group, told Sky television.

    "I think it would be the start of most likely the break-up of the European Union," he said. "I hope sense will prevail."
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    SeanT said:

    @jonnylaw59 5m5 minutes ago
    RT zerohedge "U.K. EU POLL SHOWS 36% VOTE TO LEAVE, 34% VOTE TO STAY: TNS"


    Online or Phone?

  • Options

    One thing which puzzles me about the EU summit: isn't the fact that Spain hasn't currently got a proper government a bit of a problem?

    I can't answer that but it does lead to the next question of what rights do the heads of state have to finalise a deal this weekend? I don't mean that in any argumentative way, just a simple observation that I would have thought that in a number of cases any binding agreement would have to be approved by the Parliaments of at least some of the countries involved.

    Could we see agreement here then killed by a Parliament in one of the 27 countries voting it down? I don't know what the mechanism here is.
    Yes, I don't know either.
  • Options
    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Poor PSF figures this morning. January surplus of £11.2bn well under expectations of ~£13bn given the massive rise in self-employment.

    My payment probably didn't make it through until about the 2nd of Feb. I very much doubt I was alone, particularly as the 31st was a Sunday. I expect February figures to reflect that.

    How many billion do you expect your tax returns to reduce government borrowing by? If I can be so bold as to pry into your personal details....
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    @jonnylaw59 5m5 minutes ago
    RT zerohedge "U.K. EU POLL SHOWS 36% VOTE TO LEAVE, 34% VOTE TO STAY: TNS"

    https://t.co/TUl2jju8uL
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610
    edited February 2016
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Poor PSF figures this morning. January surplus of £11.2bn well under expectations of ~£13bn given the massive rise in self-employment.

    My payment probably didn't make it through until about the 2nd of Feb. I very much doubt I was alone, particularly as the 31st was a Sunday. I expect February figures to reflect that.
    Feb receipts usually come in at about £2.5bn for SA, it would have to be close to £4.5bn to make up for the January miss in SA expectations. I don't see that as very likely.

    Even if it does materialise and there is some improvement in the March figures YoY, Osborne is going to overshoot the borrowing estimate by at least £5bn. As I said previously, he needs a massive revisions of the YTD figures and a huge expectations beat in Feb to make the OBR estimate. Anything less than £2bn over won't be such a big deal, but more than that and you're talking about real money that can't just be magicked away with efficiency savings in the following year.
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    What is it about Richard Branson that's so similar to Tony Blair?

    Are they the same person?

    'Brexit' could cause break-up of EU, claims Richard Branson

    A UK exit from the European Union would be very damaging for its economy and could spell the end of the whole EU project, billionaire businessman Richard Branson has said.

    His comments come as Prime Minister David Cameron seeks a deal from other EU leaders at a summit in Brussels, that would allow him to argue for British membership at a referendum expected to be held in June.

    "It would be a very, very, very, very sad day if British people voted to leave. I think it would be very, very damaging for Great Britain," Mr Branson, founder of Virgin Group, told Sky television.

    "I think it would be the start of most likely the break-up of the European Union," he said. "I hope sense will prevail."

    Tax exile Branson, the one who lives on Necker to dodge paying anything into the pot?

    He should stick to sorting out his ridiculous space project.
  • Options

    SeanT said:

    @jonnylaw59 5m5 minutes ago
    RT zerohedge "U.K. EU POLL SHOWS 36% VOTE TO LEAVE, 34% VOTE TO STAY: TNS"

    https://t.co/TUl2jju8uL
    Fkn ell, 89 pages for one poll. Is that a record?
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,041
    edited February 2016

    murali_s said:

    O/T AGW

    January 2016 was the warmest January ever recorded according to NOAA.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201601

    Arctic sea ice is also anomalously low - probably going to hit a recorded low for the maximum arctic sea-ice extent this year.

    https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

    Anyone want to bet against me on whether 2016 will be the warmest year ever recorded globally? The band of merry folk who like to band about terms such as "AGW trough" etc perhaps?

    El Nino year. Makes it meaningless just like the 1998 El Nino year. Any sensible climate student long ago learnt not to use such years as indicators of a trend. Of course you have never been in danger of being considered sensible so I understand your confusion.
    Haha - typical response from a flat-earther!

    Of course there will be natural variations in the climate which include ENSO. I'm talking about the trend and the trend is up - the Earth is warming (there is absolutely no doubt about that!) - even the derived lower troposphere temperatures from the satellite data that you so love to quote all the time shows that.

    I may not be an expert but I'm with the 97% here. Sceptics initially said there the Earth was actually cooling referencing the early and wrong derivations of the global temperatures from the satellite data. They quickly backtracked as their data and analysis were trashed. Now of course the mantra is "carbon dioxide is good for you - no need to worry!".

    This is one of the BIGGEST issues facing us - we can be ignorant and blind or we can be intelligent - the choice is ours...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr6dSo6SrCE
  • Options
    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    The deal will have been done by the fixers in the corridors and their wordsmiths.Several countries won't have a clue what they have agreed to and neither will anyone in the UK.
    I'm sure the deal is already done and this is just a bunch of blokes pretending to be peacocks.
    Cameron will get get his "deal" and Bottler Boris will accept it.
  • Options
    #EUSummit negotiator tells me "we have a problem" - "many" other nations quite like Mr Cameron's "emergency handbrake" and want their own
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    SeanT said:

    In his worst nightmares, I'm sure Cameron never expected to begin his EU referendum campaign actually BEHIND in some of the polls


    Well it's his fault for trying to sell a pig in a poke.

  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    That's a great observation. It's been bugging me for ages who he reminded me of.

    I've little time for Branson nowadays. He's gone, understandably, all Establishment.

    He war with BA is a distant memory, along with his record label.

    What is it about Richard Branson that's so similar to Tony Blair?

    Are they the same person?

    'Brexit' could cause break-up of EU, claims Richard Branson

    A UK exit from the European Union would be very damaging for its economy and could spell the end of the whole EU project, billionaire businessman Richard Branson has said.

    His comments come as Prime Minister David Cameron seeks a deal from other EU leaders at a summit in Brussels, that would allow him to argue for British membership at a referendum expected to be held in June.

    "It would be a very, very, very, very sad day if British people voted to leave. I think it would be very, very damaging for Great Britain," Mr Branson, founder of Virgin Group, told Sky television.

    "I think it would be the start of most likely the break-up of the European Union," he said. "I hope sense will prevail."

  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    One thing which puzzles me about the EU summit: isn't the fact that Spain hasn't currently got a proper government a bit of a problem?

    I can't answer that but it does lead to the next question of what rights do the heads of state have to finalise a deal this weekend? I don't mean that in any argumentative way, just a simple observation that I would have thought that in a number of cases any binding agreement would have to be approved by the Parliaments of at least some of the countries involved.

    Could we see agreement here then killed by a Parliament in one of the 27 countries voting it down? I don't know what the mechanism here is.
    I think in Spain there is a kind of temporary holding govt in position until any new coalition is agreed.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,875
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    @jonnylaw59 5m5 minutes ago
    RT zerohedge "U.K. EU POLL SHOWS 36% VOTE TO LEAVE, 34% VOTE TO STAY: TNS"


    Online or Phone?

    Online I presume.

    But INNERS can't keep ignoring online polls, and airily pretend they don't tell us anything, simply because they dislike what the polls say.

    This vote is extremely close.
    There are drawbacks with both types of polling. Even the telephone polling shows a narrowing of the gap, though.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,221

    What is it about Richard Branson that's so similar to Tony Blair?

    Ridiculous teeth and spending most of their time outside the country?

  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    JonathanD said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Poor PSF figures this morning. January surplus of £11.2bn well under expectations of ~£13bn given the massive rise in self-employment.

    My payment probably didn't make it through until about the 2nd of Feb. I very much doubt I was alone, particularly as the 31st was a Sunday. I expect February figures to reflect that.

    How many billion do you expect your tax returns to reduce government borrowing by? If I can be so bold as to pry into your personal details....
    I doubt if Ozzy is holding his breath :)
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'What is it about Richard Branson that's so similar to Tony Blair?'

    He can read from the same scare sheet
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Arguably, it should strengthen his thin ice position.

    Doubt it'll make much difference now unless he's looking for an excuse to walk away.
    SeanT said:

    In his worst nightmares, I'm sure Cameron never expected to begin his EU referendum campaign actually BEHIND in some of the polls

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,965

    #EUSummit negotiator tells me "we have a problem" - "many" other nations quite like Mr Cameron's "emergency handbrake" and want their own

    Hungary I'd guess for one.

    Germany must be shitting it if that's correct.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    @jonnylaw59 5m5 minutes ago
    RT zerohedge "U.K. EU POLL SHOWS 36% VOTE TO LEAVE, 34% VOTE TO STAY: TNS"


    Online or Phone?

    Online I presume.

    But INNERS can't keep ignoring online polls, and airily pretend they don't tell us anything, simply because they dislike what the polls say.

    This vote is extremely close.
    'Italy are gonna win this' :)
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,552
    edited February 2016

    SeanT said:

    @jonnylaw59 5m5 minutes ago
    RT zerohedge "U.K. EU POLL SHOWS 36% VOTE TO LEAVE, 34% VOTE TO STAY: TNS"

    https://t.co/TUl2jju8uL
    Fkn ell, 89 pages for one poll. Is that a record?
    376 pages is the record.

    Lord Ashcroft sent us the detailed breakdown of his epic 20,000 sample Scottish Independence polling from early 2014.
  • Options
    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    edited February 2016
    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    O/T AGW

    January 2016 was the warmest January ever recorded according to NOAA.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201601

    Arctic sea ice is also anomalously low - probably going to hit a recorded low for the maximum arctic sea-ice extent this year.

    https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

    Anyone want to bet against me on whether 2016 will be the warmest year ever recorded globally? The band of merry folk who like to band about terms such as "AGW trough" etc perhaps?

    El Nino year. Makes it meaningless just like the 1998 El Nino year. Any sensible climate student long ago learnt not to use such years as indicators of a trend. Of course you have never been in danger of being considered sensible so I understand your confusion.
    Haha - typical response from a flat-earther!

    Of course there will be natural variations in the climate which include ENSO. I'm talking about the trend and the trend is up - the Earth is warming (there is absolutely no doubt about that!) - even the derived lower troposphere temperatures from the satellite data that you so love to quote all the time shows that.

    I may not be an expert but I'm with the 97% here. Sceptics initially said there the Earth was actually cooling referencing the early and wrong derivations of the global temperatures from the satellite data. They quickly backtracked as their data and analysis were trashed. Now of course the mantra is "carbon dioxide is good for you - no need to worry!".

    This is one of the BIGGEST issues facing us - we can be ignorant and blind or we can be intelligent - the choice is ours...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr6dSo6SrCE
    We do not know how the climate changed in the distant past.

  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,875
    SeanT said:

    In his worst nightmares, I'm sure Cameron never expected to begin his EU referendum campaign actually BEHIND in some of the polls

    Last Summer, everything seemed to be coming up trumps for Remain. Yougov were putting Remain 10% ahead, and Ipsos Mori had them 34% ahead (albeit, an outlier). The migration crisis, terrorism, and the wretched negotiations have derailed this lead.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610
    Pulpstar said:

    #EUSummit negotiator tells me "we have a problem" - "many" other nations quite like Mr Cameron's "emergency handbrake" and want their own

    Hungary I'd guess for one.

    Germany must be shitting it if that's correct.
    More likely the Northern core nations.
  • Options

    SeanT said:

    @jonnylaw59 5m5 minutes ago
    RT zerohedge "U.K. EU POLL SHOWS 36% VOTE TO LEAVE, 34% VOTE TO STAY: TNS"

    https://t.co/TUl2jju8uL
    Fkn ell, 89 pages for one poll. Is that a record?
    Scotland 45% in, 22% out.

    Greater London 34% in, 41% out.
    Not sure how much a difference 'Greater' makes, but isn't that the second recent poll showing London for out?
  • Options
    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    O/T AGW

    January 2016 was the warmest January ever recorded according to NOAA.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201601

    Arctic sea ice is also anomalously low - probably going to hit a recorded low for the maximum arctic sea-ice extent this year.

    https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

    Anyone want to bet against me on whether 2016 will be the warmest year ever recorded globally? The band of merry folk who like to band about terms such as "AGW trough" etc perhaps?

    El Nino year. Makes it meaningless just like the 1998 El Nino year. Any sensible climate student long ago learnt not to use such years as indicators of a trend. Of course you have never been in danger of being considered sensible so I understand your confusion.
    Haha - typical response from a flat-earther!

    Of course there will be natural variations in the climate which include ENSO. I'm talking about the trend and the trend is up - the Earth is warming (there is absolutely no doubt about that!) - even the derived lower troposphere temperatures from the satellite data that you so love to quote all the time shows that.

    I may not be an expert but I'm with the 97% here. Sceptics initially said there the Earth was actually cooling referencing the early and wrong derivations of the global temperatures from the satellite data. They quickly backtracked as their data and analysis were trashed. Now of course the mantra is "carbon dioxide is good for you - no need to worry!".

    This is one of the BIGGEST issues facing us - we can be ignorant and blind or we can be intelligent - the choice is ours...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr6dSo6SrCE
    Actually the trend isn't up. The trend from the 1998 El Nino to this one is flat or slightly down. The trend ignoring the El Nino's is definitely very slightly down.

    Your 97% comment shows you really don't have a clue what you are talking about as that has been comprehensively debunked years ago. The satellite data continues to be far more accurate than the discredited surface station data set.

    The only person showing how ignorant and blind they are around here is you.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :lol:

    Camilla Long
    I love this, from @popbitch: "The British Embassy in Buenos Aires has its own pub. Called The Hand of God."
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610

    SeanT said:

    @jonnylaw59 5m5 minutes ago
    RT zerohedge "U.K. EU POLL SHOWS 36% VOTE TO LEAVE, 34% VOTE TO STAY: TNS"

    https://t.co/TUl2jju8uL
    Fkn ell, 89 pages for one poll. Is that a record?
    Indeed. Can anyone find the 4/4 certain to vote numbers? I can't.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,235
    edited February 2016

    SeanT said:

    @jonnylaw59 5m5 minutes ago
    RT zerohedge "U.K. EU POLL SHOWS 36% VOTE TO LEAVE, 34% VOTE TO STAY: TNS"

    https://t.co/TUl2jju8uL
    Fkn ell, 89 pages for one poll. Is that a record?
    376 pages is the record.

    Lord Ashcroft sent us the detailed breakdown of his epic 20,000 sample Scottish Independence polling from early 2014.
    Yeah, but wasn't that about 14 different polls conflated and taken over 3 years?*

    *These numbers may not necessarily be accurate.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Leave edging in on Betfair. 2.86 now.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    In his worst nightmares, I'm sure Cameron never expected to begin his EU referendum campaign actually BEHIND in some of the polls

    Last Summer, everything seemed to be coming up trumps for Remain. Yougov were putting Remain 10% ahead, and Ipsos Mori had them 34% ahead (albeit, an outlier). The migration crisis, terrorism, and the wretched negotiations have derailed this lead.
    Before the general election Cameron made a big deal about the renegotiation of the UK's position in the EU being substantial, and he said that he might well recommend leaving if he failed. It turns out that the renegotiations are of trivial matters, and we might not even get those, and Cameron appears to be planning to try and sell these worthless concessions come what may.

    Even if Cameron wins this process demeans him and our country, and I hope we see the back of him as soon as possible.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    welshowl said:

    Danny565 said:



    On the EU summit, as your local EU specialist I predict it'll end with a deal this evening or tomorrow morning. It won't run to Sunday.

    Quite. I can't believe everyone is falling for the theatrics of this, yet again. It's quite clearly just being engineered to make the negotiations look tougher than they are so that it seems at the end of it that's a really great deal, and that Cameron "banged the table" like the strong leader he supposedly is.
    Sweden used to have a drama every 3 years when the equivalent of the CBI had a huge negotiation with the equivalent of the TUC on everyone's wages (I think it's become much less centralised these days). Normally, the negotiations would battle on all night until the two sides would stumble out in the morning, unshaven and haggard, to announce that they'd reached a deal. There would then be a vote of all workers on whether to accept it, and it would be carried, as people were satisfied that all that could be achieved had been fought for.

    One year, to everyone's surprise, they reached a deal by 8 the previous evening. Nonplussed, they debated what to do. If they just went out and announced it, it wouldn't look credible. So they put aside the final details, ordered in some crates of beer and played cards all night, before tidying up the details at 6am and stumbling out looking exhausted, etc. Amazingly, the story only got out some time later, after people had duly voted to agree.
    Brilliant. Good for them.

    I wonder, only half in jest, if really they're all sat around in Brussels watching movies with popcorn with the "deal" already signed off in a corner.
    Probably. Angela probably came prepared with the Hunger Games boxset.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,356
    JonathanD said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Poor PSF figures this morning. January surplus of £11.2bn well under expectations of ~£13bn given the massive rise in self-employment.

    My payment probably didn't make it through until about the 2nd of Feb. I very much doubt I was alone, particularly as the 31st was a Sunday. I expect February figures to reflect that.

    How many billion do you expect your tax returns to reduce government borrowing by? If I can be so bold as to pry into your personal details....
    They probably won't even notice my little contribution but it still hurt! Over the last couple of years we have seen a spill over of January payments into February and given where the 31st fell I think we just might see a slightly bigger effect this year.
This discussion has been closed.