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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » REMAIN leads drops by 10% in first post-Tusk talks EURef ph

SystemSystem Posts: 11,705
edited February 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » REMAIN leads drops by 10% in first post-Tusk talks EURef phone poll

I’ve placed my first referendum bet on LEAVE on Betfair at odds slightly longer than 2/1. Today’s phone poll, the first since the Tusk talks, suggests that that trend to BREXIT seen in the online polls is being repeated there.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,602
    edited February 2016
    Leave making sure they don't peak too soon

    Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
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    Supporters of REMAIN are a far greater, pernicious, perfidious threat to this country than ISIL.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Ipsos MORI
    Help to Buy has increased #ukhousing supply: New research for @Helptobuy @CommunitiesUK https://t.co/NiZVx4VhQ1
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2016
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Remain wiping the pants of Losers !
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Leave making sure they don't peak too soon

    Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.

    Yes ! C'mon Dave. The Socialists are with you.
  • Options

    Leave making sure they don't peak too soon

    Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.

    But are you backing Leave, or Dave?
  • Options
    Well, we've had a tsunami of wholly negative press coverage for Cameron in the last couple of weeks, so some movement is not surprising. The question is whether this is the start of a momentum towards Leave, or a temporary blip.

    Given that the campaign hasn't really started - the Remain side haven't yet cranked up the economic risks stuff - I'd be wary of drawing any conclusion for the moment.

    On the other side of the coin, concerns about migration will help Leave, even if the logic is dubious at best.

    I don't think the renegotiation is going to be particularly significant in the final result either way.
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    So in the Comres poll the REMAIN lead has dropped from 21% to 8% in 2 months.

    Lets hope it carries on at that rate.
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    Leave making sure they don't peak too soon

    Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.

    But are you backing Leave, or Dave?
    I'm backing what is the best for the UK.
  • Options
    On topic, I expect a late swing of 3-4% to Remain in the final 24-48 hours as Project Fear wears heavy in the ballot box.

    So if Leave go into that final twilight period with a lead of 6-8% and TSE, SeanT, Bob Sykes and JohnO have decided (with either heavy or happy hearts) to vote Leave then, and only then, will I believe Leave have a chance.

    But I do think it might be now possible to run this close.
  • Options

    Leave making sure they don't peak too soon

    Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.

    But are you backing Leave, or Dave?
    I'm backing what is the best for the UK.
    Which will be LEAVE, natch.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    WTF?

    Complains to council about disabled access to her council house.
    Gets a ramp fitted - *crying* https://t.co/zbZ0v6sC4i
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    Leave making sure they don't peak too soon

    Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.

    But are you backing Leave, or Dave?
    I'm backing what is the best for the UK.
    Which will be LEAVE, natch.
    #WesStreetingsupportersforleave
  • Options

    Well, we've had a tsunami of wholly negative press coverage for Cameron in the last couple of weeks, so some movement is not surprising. The question is whether this is the start of a momentum towards Leave, or a temporary blip.

    Given that the campaign hasn't really started - the Remain side haven't yet cranked up the economic risks stuff - I'd be wary of drawing any conclusion for the moment.

    On the other side of the coin, concerns about migration will help Leave, even if the logic is dubious at best.

    I don't think the renegotiation is going to be particularly significant in the final result either way.

    It pains me to see such an ostensibly eloquent and urbane chap such as Richard N spouting such slavishly pro-EU propaganda on PB.com.

    I can feel the tears welling up in my eyes every time I read his posts :(
  • Options

    Leave making sure they don't peak too soon

    Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.

    But are you backing Leave, or Dave?
    I'm backing what is the best for the UK.
    Don't be a politician, which is it: Leave, or Remain?

    Honestly, you are like Boris Johnson.

    I fully expect you to come on here the day after and confess you voted Remain.

    I hope you surprise me but I'm not holding my breath.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    Leave making sure they don't peak too soon

    Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.

    But are you backing Leave, or Dave?
    I'm backing what is the best for the UK.
    You've flounced back to remain haven't you :p
  • Options
    OT

    I have just had an email from Peter Tatchell via Change.org asking me to support the rights of Hetrosexual Couples to marry in Civil Partnerships like Homosexual Couples.

    Always been a big fan of Tatchell personally and like the consistency in his views.
  • Options
    Evening all.

    The polling data table is brill and much appreciated, however, any chance of it in graph format please as I enjoy watching the gap shrink. :lol:
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    edited February 2016
    AndyJS said:


    Remain leads 48% 42% In Wales with Comres a fraction less than the 49% 42% it leads in England
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    The oldies in the ComRes EURef phone poll, those of 65+ split
    REMAIN 39%
    LEAVE 52%

    We all know who bothers to vote...
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,084

    WTF?

    Complains to council about disabled access to her council house.
    Gets a ramp fitted - *crying* https://t.co/zbZ0v6sC4i

    It is an old one , woman had disabled daughter I believe. Typical Labour , bet the contractor was connected.
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    Evening all.

    The polling data table is brill and much appreciated, however, any chance of it in graph format please as I enjoy watching the gap shrink. :lol:

    Simon, you are not one of those people who, as soon as they start watching the cricket, England lose a wicket are you?
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,453
    edited February 2016

    So in the Comres poll the REMAIN lead has dropped from 21% to 8% in 2 months.

    Lets hope it carries on at that rate.

    It'll be a bit like the polls 12 months back.

    Strong lead for REMAIN (= Labour) round about Christmas/New Year

    Then, the LEAVE side (= Tories) eating into their lead during the spring.

    Then we will have all the useful idiots political pundits predicting it will be too close to call come Referendum Day (=Election Day)

    A shock exit poll leads to Eddie Izzard threatening to eat his stilettos (=Paddy Ashdown threatening to eat his hat )

    Followed by the realisation that LEAVE (=Tories) will win an overall majority!
  • Options

    Leave making sure they don't peak too soon

    Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.

    But are you backing Leave, or Dave?
    I'm backing what is the best for the UK.
    Don't be a politician, which is it: Leave, or Remain?

    Honestly, you are like Boris Johnson.

    I fully expect you to come on here the day after and confess you voted Remain.

    I hope you surprise me but I'm not holding my breath.
    Leave.

    I'll post a picture of my postal ballot when I fill it in.
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    Pulpstar said:

    The oldies in the ComRes EURef phone poll, those of 65+ split
    REMAIN 39%
    LEAVE 52%

    We all know who bothers to vote...

    I do wonder what happens if we vote 52/48 to Leave on a mere 55% turnout, skewed to the elderly.

    I suspect that'd be seen as a mandate for the EEA.

    A vote of 61/39% Leave on the other hand on a 70% turnout (somewhat unlikely) and the government would have to do something more bespoke.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Leave making sure they don't peak too soon

    Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.

    But are you backing Leave, or Dave?
    I'm backing what is the best for the UK.
    Don't be a politician, which is it: Leave, or Remain?

    Honestly, you are like Boris Johnson.

    I fully expect you to come on here the day after and confess you voted Remain.

    I hope you surprise me but I'm not holding my breath.
    Leave.

    I'll post a picture of my postal ballot when I fill it in.
    Is that legal?
  • Options

    I do wonder what happens if we vote 52/48 to Leave on a mere 55% turnout, skewed to the elderly.

    I suspect that'd be seen as a mandate for the EEA.

    A vote of 61/39% Leave on the other hand on a 70% turnout (somewhat unlikely) and the government would have to do something more bespoke.

    An interesting thought.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Leave making sure they don't peak too soon

    Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.

    But are you backing Leave, or Dave?
    I'm backing what is the best for the UK.
    Which will be LEAVE, natch.
    #WesStreetingsupportersforleave
    Remember, I only voted for Wes for "local" reasons :)

    If I were a drinker, I would have cracked open a fair few bottles of bubbly as the results came in from around the country on the morning of May 8th!
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    RoyalBlue said:

    Leave making sure they don't peak too soon

    Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.

    But are you backing Leave, or Dave?
    I'm backing what is the best for the UK.
    Don't be a politician, which is it: Leave, or Remain?

    Honestly, you are like Boris Johnson.

    I fully expect you to come on here the day after and confess you voted Remain.

    I hope you surprise me but I'm not holding my breath.
    Leave.

    I'll post a picture of my postal ballot when I fill it in.
    Is that legal?
    "I will MAKE it legal!" - Darth Sidious (aka. Palpatine)
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Good evening all.

    Well, if nothing else, it might stiffen Dave's sinews a bit this week, can't be comfortable reading for him.

    He can't do much about migration and the abysmal economic performance of the Eurozone, but he really needs every member of the Commission and people like Martin Schulz to stfu between now and referendum day.
  • Options

    Leave making sure they don't peak too soon

    Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.

    But are you backing Leave, or Dave?
    I'm backing what is the best for the UK.
    Don't be a politician, which is it: Leave, or Remain?

    Honestly, you are like Boris Johnson.

    I fully expect you to come on here the day after and confess you voted Remain.

    I hope you surprise me but I'm not holding my breath.
    Leave.

    I'll post a picture of my postal ballot when I fill it in.
    Thank you. It was you who convinced me that Gove looks the best bet for next leader.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    I was waiting for you to say that :wink:

    REMAIN = The Dominion
    LEAVE = The Marquis
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Leave making sure they don't peak too soon

    Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.

    But are you backing Leave, or Dave?
    I'm backing what is the best for the UK.
    Don't be a politician, which is it: Leave, or Remain?

    Honestly, you are like Boris Johnson.

    I fully expect you to come on here the day after and confess you voted Remain.

    I hope you surprise me but I'm not holding my breath.
    Leave.

    I'll post a picture of my postal ballot when I fill it in.
    Thank you. It was you who convinced me that Gove looks the best bet for next leader.
    The Minister of Silly Walks !
  • Options

    Evening all.

    The polling data table is brill and much appreciated, however, any chance of it in graph format please as I enjoy watching the gap shrink. :lol:

    Simon, you are not one of those people who, as soon as they start watching the cricket, England lose a wicket are you?
    No, Mr Tyndall, - that's a gift reserved entirely for rugby, except when playing against Italians.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    OT

    I have just had an email from Peter Tatchell via Change.org asking me to support the rights of Hetrosexual Couples to marry in Civil Partnerships like Homosexual Couples.

    Always been a big fan of Tatchell personally and like the consistency in his views.

    Totally agree.

    He is the best kind of campaigning politician for my money. He's right about that issue too.
  • Options
    RoyalBlue said:

    I was waiting for you to say that :wink:

    REMAIN = The Dominion
    LEAVE = The Marquis

    REMAIN = The Borg Queen
    LEAVE = Commander Data elbowing the warp plasma manifold
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    Pulpstar said:

    Leave making sure they don't peak too soon

    Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.

    But are you backing Leave, or Dave?
    I'm backing what is the best for the UK.
    Which will be LEAVE, natch.
    #WesStreetingsupportersforleave
    Remember, I only voted for Wes for "local" reasons :)

    If I were a drinker, I would have cracked open a fair few bottles of bubbly as the results came in from around the country on the morning of May 8th!
    Don't worry Sunil, I had a couple on your behalf on the morning of May 8th
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Pulpstar said:

    The oldies in the ComRes EURef phone poll, those of 65+ split
    REMAIN 39%
    LEAVE 52%

    We all know who bothers to vote...

    They also die sooner !
  • Options
    RoyalBlue said:

    Leave making sure they don't peak too soon

    Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.

    But are you backing Leave, or Dave?
    I'm backing what is the best for the UK.
    Don't be a politician, which is it: Leave, or Remain?

    Honestly, you are like Boris Johnson.

    I fully expect you to come on here the day after and confess you voted Remain.

    I hope you surprise me but I'm not holding my breath.
    Leave.

    I'll post a picture of my postal ballot when I fill it in.
    Is that legal?
    Yes. The only prohibition is taking photos inside the polling station.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    RoyalBlue said:

    I was waiting for you to say that :wink:

    REMAIN = The Dominion
    LEAVE = The Marquis

    REMAIN = The Borg Queen
    LEAVE = Commander Data elbowing the warp plasma manifold
    EFTA = Unimatrix Zero
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    Pulpstar said:

    The oldies in the ComRes EURef phone poll, those of 65+ split
    REMAIN 39%
    LEAVE 52%

    We all know who bothers to vote...

    I do wonder what happens if we vote 52/48 to Leave on a mere 55% turnout, skewed to the elderly.

    I suspect that'd be seen as a mandate for the EEA.

    A vote of 61/39% Leave on the other hand on a 70% turnout (somewhat unlikely) and the government would have to do something more bespoke.
    we get to vote again

    any vote for leave and we get to vote again only this time with a better offer than Dave got the last time.

  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Pew Research
    On #PresidentsDay: What kind of presidents the voters think the 2016 candidates would make https://t.co/KK60oYN5Io https://t.co/2EK2UDFPQC
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    surbiton said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The oldies in the ComRes EURef phone poll, those of 65+ split
    REMAIN 39%
    LEAVE 52%

    We all know who bothers to vote...

    They also die sooner !
    They're also get replaced as people age. IIRC the +65 age group is growing
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    RoyalBlue said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    I was waiting for you to say that :wink:

    REMAIN = The Dominion
    LEAVE = The Marquis

    REMAIN = The Borg Queen
    LEAVE = Commander Data elbowing the warp plasma manifold
    EFTA = Unimatrix Zero
    How do I need to vote to get Seven of Nine?
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    isamisam Posts: 41,004

    surbiton said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The oldies in the ComRes EURef phone poll, those of 65+ split
    REMAIN 39%
    LEAVE 52%

    We all know who bothers to vote...

    They also die sooner !
    They're also get replaced as people age. IIRC the +65 age group is growing
    left wing maths vs right wing maths in a nutshell
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Leave under 3.0 on Betfair now.
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    surbiton said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The oldies in the ComRes EURef phone poll, those of 65+ split
    REMAIN 39%
    LEAVE 52%

    We all know who bothers to vote...

    They also die sooner !
    Well yes, but there are plenty more to take their place.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,668
    edited February 2016

    Pew Research
    On #PresidentsDay: What kind of presidents the voters think the 2016 candidates would make https://t.co/KK60oYN5Io https://t.co/2EK2UDFPQC

    Interesting. Hillary and Trump the most polarising, by far.

    Trump worse off because of such a high number saying terrible, but Hillary ain't exactly the second coming either.

    Edit: and those numbers are truly appalling for Bush
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    isamisam Posts: 41,004
    40% or less for REMAIN 25/1... what price would leave have to be for that to be value boffins?
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    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    hmmmm

    but now you're drifiting in making it a referendum on Dave. Risky if the lefties decide they want to play the game.
  • Options
    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078

    On topic, I expect a late swing of 3-4% to Remain in the final 24-48 hours as Project Fear wears heavy in the ballot box.

    Agreed.This is the evidence of both Quebec and the indyref.I note Ladbrokes have shortened the odds in their banding market for 45-50% for Remain to 11-4 joint fav with 50-55% and have lengthened the 55-60% and 60-65% to 3-1 and 5-1 respectively.I have kept my punting powder dry for the Euroref so far but will drop into Laddies for my usual dutching bet,taking the 3-1 and 5-1 covering both for 140% profit-my guess is 60-40% for Remain.
    Once Project Fear takes hold,the oldies especially will vote for the status quo as the UK is essentially a nation of conservatives who are not keen on change per se.I hope too for a very prominent role for Sir John Major who,to my mind,has been the most effective communicator yet in support of Remain.Crucially,the bankers have backed Remain as well and unless Leave can ditch toxic Farage from the scene,he will be the best recruiting seargeant for the Remain camp.
    Personally,I voted No in 1975 and currently am in the undecided camp and will need persuasion to vote at all.

  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    RoyalBlue said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    I was waiting for you to say that :wink:

    REMAIN = The Dominion
    LEAVE = The Marquis

    REMAIN = The Borg Queen
    LEAVE = Commander Data elbowing the warp plasma manifold
    EFTA = Unimatrix Zero
    How do I need to vote to get Seven of Nine?
    No voting required; just close your eyes when you regenerate :smile:

    Does the referendum still make you melancholic? If so I'll keep distracting you...
  • Options
    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    ComRes/ITV EURef phone poll finds CON voters split with 45% supporting REMAIN and 48% LEAVE. 70% of GE2015 LAB voters say REMAIN

    The Tory numbers just look wrong?
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    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    I understand that. You are a party loyalist, and a big fan of Dave, and I respect that.

    I had a similar conversation with a friend over text who's Treasurer for a North London Constituency Association and was at the CCHQ victory celebrations. He had been torn for weeks.

    He reluctantly confided to me that he felt had no choice but to back Leave.

    What we really need is a Cameroon coming out for Leave, like Gove.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    O_o

    Spanish civil servant accused of skipping work for 6 years - CBS News https://t.co/dWqYBWqVVa
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    I understand that. You are a party loyalist, and a big fan of Dave, and I respect that.

    I had a similar conversation with a friend over text who's Treasurer for a North London Constituency Association and was at the CCHQ victory celebrations. He had been torn for weeks.

    He reluctantly confided to me that he felt had no choice but to back Leave.

    What we really need is a Cameroon coming out for Leave, like Gove.
    An electable Cameroon would be better.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    No that's about right, even at the last Tory conf, delegates were only marginally for Leave.
    DanSmith said:

    ComRes/ITV EURef phone poll finds CON voters split with 45% supporting REMAIN and 48% LEAVE. 70% of GE2015 LAB voters say REMAIN

    The Tory numbers just look wrong?

  • Options

    On topic, I expect a late swing of 3-4% to Remain in the final 24-48 hours as Project Fear wears heavy in the ballot box.

    Agreed.This is the evidence of both Quebec and the indyref.I note Ladbrokes have shortened the odds in their banding market for 45-50% for Remain to 11-4 joint fav with 50-55% and have lengthened the 55-60% and 60-65% to 3-1 and 5-1 respectively.I have kept my punting powder dry for the Euroref so far but will drop into Laddies for my usual dutching bet,taking the 3-1 and 5-1 covering both for 140% profit-my guess is 60-40% for Remain.
    Once Project Fear takes hold,the oldies especially will vote for the status quo as the UK is essentially a nation of conservatives who are not keen on change per se.I hope too for a very prominent role for Sir John Major who,to my mind,has been the most effective communicator yet in support of Remain.Crucially,the bankers have backed Remain as well and unless Leave can ditch toxic Farage from the scene,he will be the best recruiting seargeant for the Remain camp.
    Personally,I voted No in 1975 and currently am in the undecided camp and will need persuasion to vote at all.

    Sir John Major is one of Remain's strongest cards. Leave need a mainstream moderate Tory as figurehead.

    I hope you can be convinced to vote this time.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Pulpstar said:

    The oldies in the ComRes EURef phone poll, those of 65+ split
    REMAIN 39%
    LEAVE 52%

    We all know who bothers to vote...

    I do wonder what happens if we vote 52/48 to Leave on a mere 55% turnout, skewed to the elderly.

    I suspect that'd be seen as a mandate for the EEA.

    A vote of 61/39% Leave on the other hand on a 70% turnout (somewhat unlikely) and the government would have to do something more bespoke.
    we get to vote again

    any vote for leave and we get to vote again only this time with a better offer than Dave got the last time.

    Given the EU's track record on offering second referendas, I struggle to understand why anyone (except the most intergrationalist) would vote Remain at the first offer.

    Basic negotiation, innit?
  • Options

    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    hmmmm

    but now you're drifiting in making it a referendum on Dave. Risky if the lefties decide they want to play the game.
    I suspect some on the Tory right will try and make it a referendum on Dave. The ones who were never reconciled to his leadership and preferred the halcyon days of the leadership of IDS.

    I suspect Farage will say something similar.

    At conference I was amazed how many long standing Leavers were going to vote Remain because they just couldn't stomach Farage's smug face the day after Leave had won.
  • Options

    On topic, I expect a late swing of 3-4% to Remain in the final 24-48 hours as Project Fear wears heavy in the ballot box.

    Agreed.This is the evidence of both Quebec and the indyref.I note Ladbrokes have shortened the odds in their banding market for 45-50% for Remain to 11-4 joint fav with 50-55% and have lengthened the 55-60% and 60-65% to 3-1 and 5-1 respectively.I have kept my punting powder dry for the Euroref so far but will drop into Laddies for my usual dutching bet,taking the 3-1 and 5-1 covering both for 140% profit-my guess is 60-40% for Remain.
    Once Project Fear takes hold,the oldies especially will vote for the status quo as the UK is essentially a nation of conservatives who are not keen on change per se.I hope too for a very prominent role for Sir John Major who,to my mind,has been the most effective communicator yet in support of Remain.Crucially,the bankers have backed Remain as well and unless Leave can ditch toxic Farage from the scene,he will be the best recruiting seargeant for the Remain camp.
    Personally,I voted No in 1975 and currently am in the undecided camp and will need persuasion to vote at all.

    Sir John Major is one of Remain's strongest cards. Leave need a mainstream moderate Tory as figurehead.

    I hope you can be convinced to vote this time.
    LEAVE need to counter Major with his own letter showing how his supposed treaty guarantees were circumvented by the EU. It makes clear in his own words how the EU cannot be trusted to stick to any deal.
  • Options

    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    hmmmm

    but now you're drifiting in making it a referendum on Dave. Risky if the lefties decide they want to play the game.
    I suspect some on the Tory right will try and make it a referendum on Dave. The ones who were never reconciled to his leadership and preferred the halcyon days of the leadership of IDS.

    I suspect Farage will say something similar.

    At conference I was amazed how many long standing Leavers were going to vote Remain because they just couldn't stomach Farage's smug face the day after Leave had won.
    If Leave win, Farage may be finished.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Pew Research
    On #PresidentsDay: What kind of presidents the voters think the 2016 candidates would make https://t.co/KK60oYN5Io https://t.co/2EK2UDFPQC

    Interesting. Hillary and Trump the most polarising, by far.

    Trump worse off because of such a high number saying terrible, but Hillary ain't exactly the second coming either.

    Edit: and those numbers are truly appalling for Bush
    They're not terrible. Just average and mediocre. By the Bush family standards, that's actually pretty good (my wife is still backing Bush pretty hard)
  • Options
    Clearly the movement is significant.

    There's one other significant detail in this poll that hasn't been commented on (perhaps because it suits no one's narrative):

    "Have you definitely decided which way you will vote at the referendum or may you still change your mind?

    Definitely decided: 57%
    May change mind: 42%
    Don't know: 1%"

    The 42% is split pretty evenly between Remain and Leave, but those who might change their minds are disproportionately Conservatives (52% of Conservatives).

    To put this in context, MORI found with four months to go before the general election last year that 51% of voters might change their mind. By March this figure had dropped to 41%. On the eve of the election the figure was 21%.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    A sharp drop/..... Only if you believed the last poll or any poll for that matter.. However it would seem that Labour is still being overstated by ICM by 3-5% according to my gut feel ..
  • Options

    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    I'm sure he'll be on the phone soon offering you a peerage for some juicy 'Isn't Dave Great' threads.
  • Options
    Wanderer said:

    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    I understand that. You are a party loyalist, and a big fan of Dave, and I respect that.

    I had a similar conversation with a friend over text who's Treasurer for a North London Constituency Association and was at the CCHQ victory celebrations. He had been torn for weeks.

    He reluctantly confided to me that he felt had no choice but to back Leave.

    What we really need is a Cameroon coming out for Leave, like Gove.
    An electable Cameroon would be better.
    I'm not convinced Gove is quite the electoral liability he is made out to be, even though the NUT shouted very loudly about him.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Major's record on the EU is appalling actually, if you dig a bit. Deceit and incompetence to the fore.

    But I agree he is still (wrongly) seen as a trustworthy figure by the voters. Leave would need to do something about that.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    On topic, I expect a late swing of 3-4% to Remain in the final 24-48 hours as Project Fear wears heavy in the ballot box.

    Agreed.This is the evidence of both Quebec and the indyref.I note Ladbrokes have shortened the odds in their banding market for 45-50% for Remain to 11-4 joint fav with 50-55% and have lengthened the 55-60% and 60-65% to 3-1 and 5-1 respectively.I have kept my punting powder dry for the Euroref so far but will drop into Laddies for my usual dutching bet,taking the 3-1 and 5-1 covering both for 140% profit-my guess is 60-40% for Remain.
    Once Project Fear takes hold,the oldies especially will vote for the status quo as the UK is essentially a nation of conservatives who are not keen on change per se.I hope too for a very prominent role for Sir John Major who,to my mind,has been the most effective communicator yet in support of Remain.Crucially,the bankers have backed Remain as well and unless Leave can ditch toxic Farage from the scene,he will be the best recruiting seargeant for the Remain camp.
    Personally,I voted No in 1975 and currently am in the undecided camp and will need persuasion to vote at all.

    The "bankers" aren't backing Remain.

    JP, Deutsche and Goldmans are. Because they all have the UK's interests at their heart :lol:

    The City is pretty split over all - the view is that we'll do okay either way, but that we face a greater existential threat from Remain than we do from Leave.
  • Options
    With just over 4 months to go, anytime soon would be a good time to arrange a PB.com poll of Referendum Remainers and Leavers, with two more polls to be held two months and four month hence (i.e. just before the actual vote).
    Most importantly, PBers should be asked a supplementary as regards whether they had or had not changed their minds over the previous two months.
  • Options

    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    I'm sure he'll be on the phone soon offering you a peerage for some juicy 'Isn't Dave Great' threads.
    I now fancy being an MP. For years I didn't fancy it.

    So Dave, if you make me your successor in Witney.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Jeez, just resist the temptation to be smug, just once
    @AlastairMeeks

    There's one other significant detail in this poll that hasn't been commented on (perhaps because it suits no one's narrative):
  • Options

    Wanderer said:

    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    I understand that. You are a party loyalist, and a big fan of Dave, and I respect that.

    I had a similar conversation with a friend over text who's Treasurer for a North London Constituency Association and was at the CCHQ victory celebrations. He had been torn for weeks.

    He reluctantly confided to me that he felt had no choice but to back Leave.

    What we really need is a Cameroon coming out for Leave, like Gove.
    An electable Cameroon would be better.
    I'm not convinced Gove is quite the electoral liability he is made out to be, even though the NUT shouted very loudly about him.
    Gove has the same net ratings as Corbyn (-29)

    IDS who is considered the worst Tory leader in recent memory is at minus 22.

    I adore Gove, but those numbers indicate a disastrous night for the Tories in 2020 if Gove is leader and Labour are led by someone like Dan Jarvis
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167

    So in the Comres poll the REMAIN lead has dropped from 21% to 8% in 2 months.

    Lets hope it carries on at that rate.

    It'll be a bit like the polls 12 months back.

    Strong lead for REMAIN (= Labour) round about Christmas/New Year

    Then, the LEAVE side (= Tories) eating into their lead during the spring.

    Then we will have all the useful idiots political pundits predicting it will be too close to call come Referendum Day (=Election Day)

    A shock exit poll leads to Eddie Izzard threatening to eat his stilettos (=Paddy Ashdown threatening to eat his hat )

    Followed by the realisation that LEAVE (=Tories) will win an overall majority!
    Except Cameron will be leading Remain!
  • Options

    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    I'm sure he'll be on the phone soon offering you a peerage for some juicy 'Isn't Dave Great' threads.
    I now fancy being an MP. For years I didn't fancy it.

    So Dave, if you make me your successor in Witney.
    Will you have a butler like his predecessor?
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Have fun all. I'm off out.
  • Options
    Charles said:

    Pew Research
    On #PresidentsDay: What kind of presidents the voters think the 2016 candidates would make https://t.co/KK60oYN5Io https://t.co/2EK2UDFPQC

    Interesting. Hillary and Trump the most polarising, by far.

    Trump worse off because of such a high number saying terrible, but Hillary ain't exactly the second coming either.

    Edit: and those numbers are truly appalling for Bush
    They're not terrible. Just average and mediocre. By the Bush family standards, that's actually pretty good (my wife is still backing Bush pretty hard)
    She is throwing away her money.

    Just look at how awful his figure are amongst Republicans.
  • Options

    Jeez, just resist the temptation to be smug, just once

    @AlastairMeeks

    There's one other significant detail in this poll that hasn't been commented on (perhaps because it suits no one's narrative):
    I usually make the effort to ignore your contribution. Content yourself with that.
  • Options
    The notion that Tories all back Leave and that Conservatives like myself who are thinking of backing Remain are TINA is just absolute nonsense isn't it?
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Pew Research
    On #PresidentsDay: What kind of presidents the voters think the 2016 candidates would make https://t.co/KK60oYN5Io https://t.co/2EK2UDFPQC

    Interesting. Hillary and Trump the most polarising, by far.

    Trump worse off because of such a high number saying terrible, but Hillary ain't exactly the second coming either.

    Edit: and those numbers are truly appalling for Bush
    They're not terrible. Just average and mediocre. By the Bush family standards, that's actually pretty good (my wife is still backing Bush pretty hard)
    She is throwing away her money.

    Just look at how awful his figure are amongst Republicans.
    She's not gone so far as actually giving him money ;)

    (Actually she tried, but they didn't have a phone number on his website)
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The oldies in the ComRes EURef phone poll, those of 65+ split
    REMAIN 39%
    LEAVE 52%

    We all know who bothers to vote...

    I do wonder what happens if we vote 52/48 to Leave on a mere 55% turnout, skewed to the elderly.

    I suspect that'd be seen as a mandate for the EEA.

    A vote of 61/39% Leave on the other hand on a 70% turnout (somewhat unlikely) and the government would have to do something more bespoke.
    we get to vote again

    any vote for leave and we get to vote again only this time with a better offer than Dave got the last time.

    Given the EU's track record on offering second referendas, I struggle to understand why anyone (except the most intergrationalist) would vote Remain at the first offer.

    Basic negotiation, innit?
    Spot on Charles - vote Leave it's your patriotic duty :-)
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,004
    edited February 2016

    Clearly the movement is significant.

    There's one other significant detail in this poll that hasn't been commented on (perhaps because it suits no one's narrative):

    "Have you definitely decided which way you will vote at the referendum or may you still change your mind?

    Definitely decided: 57%
    May change mind: 42%
    Don't know: 1%"

    The 42% is split pretty evenly between Remain and Leave, but those who might change their minds are disproportionately Conservatives (52% of Conservatives).

    To put this in context, MORI found with four months to go before the general election last year that 51% of voters might change their mind. By March this figure had dropped to 41%. On the eve of the election the figure was 21%.

    "(perhaps because it suits no one's narrative):"

    Strange, I had the bloke who wrote the thread header down as an EU fan... #paranoia
  • Options

    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    I'm sure he'll be on the phone soon offering you a peerage for some juicy 'Isn't Dave Great' threads.
    I now fancy being an MP. For years I didn't fancy it.

    So Dave, if you make me your successor in Witney.
    Will you have a butler like his predecessor?
    No.

    A few years ago, I stayed in a London hotel, and you could have a butler for an extra £200 a night.

    So I hired one, just to see what it would be like, after the novelty wore off, it was just a bit awkward, and you wished he'd bugger off.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    Pulpstar said:

    The oldies in the ComRes EURef phone poll, those of 65+ split
    REMAIN 39%
    LEAVE 52%

    We all know who bothers to vote...

    AB
    REMAIN 58%
    LEAVE 33%

    DE
    REMAIN 41%
    LEAVE 45%

    We all know who bother to vote there too!!
    http://www.comres.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/ITV-News_EU-Referendum-Poll_15-February-2016.pdf
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    hmmmm

    but now you're drifiting in making it a referendum on Dave. Risky if the lefties decide they want to play the game.
    I suspect some on the Tory right will try and make it a referendum on Dave. The ones who were never reconciled to his leadership and preferred the halcyon days of the leadership of IDS.

    I suspect Farage will say something similar.

    At conference I was amazed how many long standing Leavers were going to vote Remain because they just couldn't stomach Farage's smug face the day after Leave had won.
    Well maybe but that's activists, others don't really care that much.

    More fun for the Leavers is to persuade the lefties that the first vote doesn't count ( we;ll get another ) and you can kick the toffs by voting Leave.

    Smash the Tories vote out!
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    I understand that. You are a party loyalist, and a big fan of Dave, and I respect that.

    I had a similar conversation with a friend over text who's Treasurer for a North London Constituency Association and was at the CCHQ victory celebrations. He had been torn for weeks.

    He reluctantly confided to me that he felt had no choice but to back Leave.

    What we really need is a Cameroon coming out for Leave, like Gove.
    An electable Cameroon would be better.
    I'm not convinced Gove is quite the electoral liability he is made out to be, even though the NUT shouted very loudly about him.
    Gove has the same net ratings as Corbyn (-29)

    IDS who is considered the worst Tory leader in recent memory is at minus 22.

    I adore Gove, but those numbers indicate a disastrous night for the Tories in 2020 if Gove is leader and Labour are led by someone like Dan Jarvis
    I'm also a Gove fan. I don't say he's unelectable out of personal dislike. But he really is hated by far too many people to win an election.

    I've tried going into bat for him, explaining that for a liberal-minded person he should actually be the most, not least, appealing Tory. Pointed out that he has undone Grayling's entire oeuvre at the MoJ in a few months. It does no good. He's a bogeyman and not just for die-hard anti-Tories (who don't matter in this game, obviously).
  • Options

    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    hmmmm

    but now you're drifiting in making it a referendum on Dave. Risky if the lefties decide they want to play the game.
    I suspect some on the Tory right will try and make it a referendum on Dave. The ones who were never reconciled to his leadership and preferred the halcyon days of the leadership of IDS.

    I suspect Farage will say something similar.

    At conference I was amazed how many long standing Leavers were going to vote Remain because they just couldn't stomach Farage's smug face the day after Leave had won.
    If Leave win, Farage may be finished.
    That is certainly my view.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,004
    edited February 2016

    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    hmmmm

    but now you're drifiting in making it a referendum on Dave. Risky if the lefties decide they want to play the game.
    I suspect some on the Tory right will try and make it a referendum on Dave. The ones who were never reconciled to his leadership and preferred the halcyon days of the leadership of IDS.

    I suspect Farage will say something similar.

    At conference I was amazed how many long standing Leavers were going to vote Remain because they just couldn't stomach Farage's smug face the day after Leave had won.
    If Leave win, Farage may be finished.
    That is certainly my view.
    It would be a political career that would not have ended in failuire
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167

    Pew Research
    On #PresidentsDay: What kind of presidents the voters think the 2016 candidates would make https://t.co/KK60oYN5Io https://t.co/2EK2UDFPQC

    Interesting. Hillary and Trump the most polarising, by far.

    Trump worse off because of such a high number saying terrible, but Hillary ain't exactly the second coming either.

    Edit: and those numbers are truly appalling for Bush
    On a net basis

    Hillary -9%
    Sanders -5%

    Trump -21%
    Cruz -3%
    Rubio -5%
    Bush -25%
    Kasich -11%
    Carson -8%
    https://twitter.com/pewresearch/status/699301735186223108/photo/1
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,602
    edited February 2016
    This article confirms something I said a while ago. The top team from CCHQ at the GE is working for Remain.

    I'm in awe of these chaps. Their attention to detail is amazing.

    If Remain does win (comfortably) it'll be down to them.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/cant-decide-how-youll-vote-the-microelectioneers-already-know-a3180496.html
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    hmmmm

    but now you're drifiting in making it a referendum on Dave. Risky if the lefties decide they want to play the game.
    I suspect some on the Tory right will try and make it a referendum on Dave. The ones who were never reconciled to his leadership and preferred the halcyon days of the leadership of IDS.

    I suspect Farage will say something similar.

    At conference I was amazed how many long standing Leavers were going to vote Remain because they just couldn't stomach Farage's smug face the day after Leave had won.
    If Leave win, Farage may be finished.
    That is certainly my view.
    In the long run we are all finished, but I don't see that Farage would be in the aftermath of Leave. He would be bask in the aura of success and - going out on a limb here - I think he would fail to resist the temptation to pose as the author of victory.

    Also, if the Leave vote is principally inspired by immigration that issue won't go away so he'll still have a signature issue to campaign on.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167

    This article confirms something I said a while ago. The top team from CCHQ at the GE is working for Remain.

    I'm in awe of these chaps. Their attention to detail is amazing.

    If Leave does win (comfortably) it'll be down to them.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/cant-decide-how-youll-vote-the-microelectioneers-already-know-a3180496.html

    I think you meant if Remain wins presumably?
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited February 2016

    This article confirms something I said a while ago. The top team from CCHQ at the GE is working for Remain.

    I'm in awe of these chaps. Their attention to detail is amazing.

    If Remain does win (comfortably) it'll be down to them.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/cant-decide-how-youll-vote-the-microelectioneers-already-know-a3180496.html

    Leave.EU are using Cambridge Analytica.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    HYUFD said:

    Pew Research
    On #PresidentsDay: What kind of presidents the voters think the 2016 candidates would make https://t.co/KK60oYN5Io https://t.co/2EK2UDFPQC

    Interesting. Hillary and Trump the most polarising, by far.

    Trump worse off because of such a high number saying terrible, but Hillary ain't exactly the second coming either.

    Edit: and those numbers are truly appalling for Bush
    On a net basis

    Hillary -9%
    Sanders -5%

    Trump -21%
    Cruz -3%
    Rubio -5%
    Bush -25%
    Kasich -11%
    Carson -8%
    https://twitter.com/pewresearch/status/699301735186223108/photo/1
    We discussed this poll when it first came out didn't we?

    Fwiw, to me they seem like not-terrible numbers for Hillary as she has been around so long.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I'll be honest, I fully expect Dave to appeal to Tories like me to trust him and back him on the referendum.

    I may go all ponceyboots gaylord at that time and waver for a bit.

    I suspect I won't be the only one. Particularly if Liam For Fox's sake is being spoken as Dave's replacement for Dave straight after a Leave vote.

    I'm sure he'll be on the phone soon offering you a peerage for some juicy 'Isn't Dave Great' threads.
    I now fancy being an MP. For years I didn't fancy it.

    So Dave, if you make me your successor in Witney.
    Will you have a butler like his predecessor?
    No.

    A few years ago, I stayed in a London hotel, and you could have a butler for an extra £200 a night.

    So I hired one, just to see what it would be like, after the novelty wore off, it was just a bit awkward, and you wished he'd bugger off.
    Why on earth would you waste money like that?

    Although, since you know my surname, I thought you might appreciate this anecdote:

    Back when the Karadordevics were still trying to reclaim their throne (Yugoslavia) my parents gave a small dinner for Tommy and Linda to introduce him to a few people.

    We had a last minute drop out, so invited the Bishop of Basingstoke (utter prat) to make up numbers.

    As my mother was carrying a bowls of potatoes around, he looked at her and said "you know, I've never been served by a ***** before". Cue utter embarrassment, until Tommy jumped up, grabbed a plate of carrots and offered them to him saying "and I bet you've never been served by a Prince either!"
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    This article confirms something I said a while ago. The top team from CCHQ at the GE is working for Remain.

    I'm in awe of these chaps. Their attention to detail is amazing.

    If Leave does win (comfortably) it'll be down to them.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/cant-decide-how-youll-vote-the-microelectioneers-already-know-a3180496.html

    I think you meant if Remain wins presumably?
    Yah.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Did Mori do Scottish Indy ref polling and did they ask the "have you made up your mind question" as that would be fascinating given the Polling trends.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167

    HYUFD said:

    This article confirms something I said a while ago. The top team from CCHQ at the GE is working for Remain.

    I'm in awe of these chaps. Their attention to detail is amazing.

    If Leave does win (comfortably) it'll be down to them.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/cant-decide-how-youll-vote-the-microelectioneers-already-know-a3180496.html

    I think you meant if Remain wins presumably?
    Yah.
    Thanks for clarifying
This discussion has been closed.