Ed Miliband’s reaction to poor polls presented by pollster Stan Greenberg was “Why do you have to be so negative?”
He said that the Prime Minister had a very different approach to negative polls.
“Compare that with David Cameron’s reaction when presented with some really quite difficult polling in 2011 on the NHS. Cameron scribbled on the memo: ‘Give me the right language in speeches, and physically attack me - underlined - with the right words before an interview. I will do what I am told’.”
Prof Cowley said that some would see that remark as a sign of a shallow cynical politician. “For me it’s a sign of a pro,” he said.
“It’s a sign of someone prepared to listen to expert advice. And maybe it’s one of the reasons that he will be Prime Minister, by the time he leaves for something close to 10 years, and Ed Miliband won’t be.”
That, in a nutshell, is why Dave won the election and Ed lost. The reaction of one was to shoot the messenger, while the other focussed on getting the right message across and being prepared to listen to his advisors.
Dave badly needs some of those advisors back if his performance in the last fortnight is anything to go by, he has been suffering from a lack of serious opposition under JC's Labour and is now losing the plot on the EU 'deal'.
Fair play to Tory councillors holding Cameron to account. They make clear that, in top of not meeting Cameron's four goals, the renegotiation fails the last Tory manifesto in several areas.
"It made the specific commitment that "changes to welfare to cut EU migration will be an absolute requirement in the renegotiation". That "We will insist that EU migrants who want to claim tax credits and child benefit must live here and contribute to our country for a minimum of four years. That "if an EU migrant’s child is living abroad, then they should receive no child benefit or child tax credit, no matter how long they have worked in the UK and no matter how much tax they have paid." And "To reduce the numbers of EU migrants coming to Britain, we will end the ability of EU jobseekers to claim any job-seeking benefits at all. And if jobseekers have not found a job within six months, they wil manifesto commitments alone were enough to represent a good deal for Britain in Europe, but given the clarity of the commitment they were at least the minimum outcome we could hope for in any renegotiation.
As they have not been met, the only responsible and honest thing for the Conservative Party – and for those in it – to do, is campaign for Britain's exit from the European Union."
Article also makes clear City of London leaders are panicking about latest draft showing them being signed up to the banking union's single rulebook and have sent an urgent delegation to Downing Street.
the Conservative party splitting.
I can't see that line of argument causing any problems in the future.
No. That is view of 130 councillors what wrote to Cameron. They don't speak for all of us so I don't know why you phrase it as if they do.
They apparently speak for you since you said "Fair play to Tory councillors holding Cameron to account".
I was speaking on point of pointing out his renegotiation breached manifesto promises. Thought that was clear from what I said. You do seem to make an effort to try to tar all Leave supporters with same brush. I don't know why. Seems dishonest.
Do remind me, how long ago was it that you were intending to vote for Remain?
I was never set but i thought renegotiation would convince me. All reports were saying Cameron had got three of his four aims achieved but was only facing difficulty on benefits one. I only cared about non-Euro protection, so thought that would be good.
The irony of Holyrood politicians arguing for the devolution of greater powers from Westminster while at the same time undermining local government in Scotland has not been lost on council leaders.
Tory lady Haw Haw supporting her inept Labour chums, just say SNPBAD save having to read your drivel
Quite the reverse!
Didn't you know that the Tories and SNP are as one on austerity and not increasing taxes?
Us Tories, Tartan and otherwise are better together to coin a phrase.....
Tories are nonentities in Scotland, their opinion counts for nothing, they just utter their nasty crap and get ignored
If thats the case its nice to see the SNP implementing Tory policies
Pop quiz.
If becoming independent was going to cost £100-£120 million......why is only setting up a separate Welfare system going to cost £300 - £600 million?
Dear Dear how desperate can Tories get to think they are important. Poor attention seekers.
We're happy when other people - even the SNP - are doing our work for us
Not putting up taxes and cutting council spending - the country of Adam Smith walks among us yet!
How reassuring to have a fiscally responsible and conservative Scottish Government....
you are a pathological liar
Which of these is not true:
The SNP are opposed to putting up taxes (hint, there's just been a vote)
The SNP have cut council spending (hint, they've just imposed a 'deal')
In your own time......
AS ever your twisting of facts into bare faced lies.
They do not want to tax the poor and the petty powers they have do not allow them to achieve this The Tories in Westminster cut the Scottish budget and council spending
A quarter of female victims are aged just 14 or under, while 9% are not even as old as 10 when they are attacked.
The statistics, from a detailed breakdown of the age and gender of victims of alleged sexual offences, were recorded from March 2014-15 from 13 police forces in England and Wales.
Holy Moly indeed. If it is right, it is horrendous, but it doesn't sound very plausible to me.
I wonder if it is at least partly a question of definition - I think I'm right in saying that any sex, even if consensual in the everyday sense of the word, with an underage girl is classed as rape, which would skew the figures.
That wouldn't explain the under-10 figure, though. Can it really be right?
Millie Dowler was 13 wasn't she. Abducted tortured and raped by a white male. During the investigation a threatening letter was sent to Dowler's family by someone already in jail for indecently assaulting a 12 year old girl.
This is what I don't understand about many Leavers (and I might be one myself). On specific sectors they say we need to leave the EU because we don't have any influence. But that begs the question as to whether they think we would somehow have more influence outside? It's slightly barmy.
If I vote Leave it will be because I am against ever closer union (even with the opt-out enshrined in the Negotiating Text).
But I would fully expect to have land on my doorstep rules and regulations, into which I would have had limited if any input, about all kinds of things, that I know I would have to follow if I wanted to trade with the EU.
How would that be different from from the rules and regulations relating to trade that just about every county enforces? We have very little if any influence over the creation of such rules in the USA, China, Australia and anywhere else but we seem to manage to trade with them quite happily.
Of course the corollary is that the UK would be free to introduce its own trade rules which other countries would need to comply with if they want to sell in to our market and that might be a very good thing in some sectors (animal welfare in farming for example).
We have at present limited influence in the EU, by leaving we would exchange that for control of our own destiny and resources. We would in fact restore the sovereignty of Parliament. To be sure we would still trade, still make agreements, still compromise, still cock it up from time to time but the decisions on all those thing would be made by Parliament and if the people don't like them then they can vote to change the government and have them reversed.
Isn't Soubry a paid up member of the Europhile club?
You've also basically posted a bunch of "Britain is a shit country and too small to survive alone". I'm not sure that is going to convince as many people as you think it will.
That is not how I read it at all. As far as I can make out Nick is arguing that it is not in our best interests to be on our own, not that we could not be on our own. That's very different to saying we are a shit country and too small to survive. Mischaracterising people's arguments when we can all read them is not a winning strategy either.
He is absolutely saying that we couldn't survive on our own. The implication is that we are too shitty and small to go it alone. I think otherwise, of course, and I know you do as well, but Nick's position is very clear as is the position of most Europhiles, especially those on the left. On the right the argument is that having a seat at the big boys table is worth the compromise in terms of sovereignty, an argument I also disagree with. The left seems to have this strain of Britain bashing that you can't see.
Possibly because you've made it up.
Says the man who was just bashing Britain.
When was I doing that?
Your comment I replied to earlier "Britain is too small to prosper alone "
So is almost every other country. A list of those that can was supplied earlier (by S O Else). In your world if it ain't puffing it's bashing, apparently. Not much I can do about that.
Not at all. There is no puffery about it at all. Britain, just like most other countries in the world, is perfectly capable of surviving without being tied to a supranational entity like the EU. Indeed I would contend we would do much better outside the EU than within it
The irony of Holyrood politicians arguing for the devolution of greater powers from Westminster while at the same time undermining local government in Scotland has not been lost on council leaders.
Tory lady Haw Haw supporting her inept Labour chums, just say SNPBAD save having to read your drivel
Quite the reverse!
Didn't you know that the Tories and SNP are as one on austerity and not increasing taxes?
Us Tories, Tartan and otherwise are better together to coin a phrase.....
Tories are nonentities in Scotland, their opinion counts for nothing, they just utter their nasty crap and get ignored
If thats the case its nice to see the SNP implementing Tory policies
Pop quiz.
If becoming independent was going to cost £100-£120 million......why is only setting up a separate Welfare system going to cost £300 - £600 million?
Dear Dear how desperate can Tories get to think they are important. Poor attention seekers.
We're happy when other people - even the SNP - are doing our work for us
Not putting up taxes and cutting council spending - the country of Adam Smith walks among us yet!
How reassuring to have a fiscally responsible and conservative Scottish Government....
you are a pathological liar
Which of these is not true:
The SNP are opposed to putting up taxes (hint, there's just been a vote)
The SNP have cut council spending (hint, they've just imposed a 'deal')
In your own time......
AS ever your twisting of facts into bare faced lies.
They do not want to tax the poor and the petty powers they have do not allow them to achieve this The Tories in Westminster cut the Scottish budget and council spending
Next lie
We have a choice, we can choose to use our powers to end Tory austerity and invest in our country's future or we can choose to do nothing and preside over hundreds of millions of pounds of cuts. So we choose to use our powers.
"This is something Nicola Sturgeon used to believe in. She used to say more powers meant fewer cuts, but now her SNP Government will vote with the Tories to continue the cuts."
Fair play to Tory councillors holding Cameron to account. They make clear that, in top of not meeting Cameron's four goals, the renegotiation fails the last Tory manifesto in several areas.
"It made the specific commitment that "changes to welfare to cut EU migration will be an absolute requirement in the renegotiation". That "We will insist that EU migrants who want to claim tax credits and child benefit must live here and contribute to our country for a minimum of four years. That "if an EU migrant’s child is living abroad, then they should receive no child benefit or child tax credit, no matter how long they have worked in the UK and no matter how much tax they have paid." And "To reduce the numbers of EU migrants coming to Britain, we will end the ability of EU jobseekers to claim any job-seeking benefits at all. And if jobseekers have not found a job within six months, they will be required to leave."
We are also mindful of the commitment to reduce migration to the UK to the "tens of thousands", and how reliant on a fundamental change to the principle of free movement of people within the EU this commitment is.
We do not feel these manifesto commitments alone were enough to represent a good deal for Britain in Europe, but given the clarity of the commitment they were at least the minimum outcome we could hope for in any renegotiation.
As they have not been met, the only responsible and honest thing for the Conservative Party – and for those in it – to do, is campaign for Britain's exit from the European Union."
Article also makes clear City of London leaders are panicking about latest draft showing them being signed up to the banking union's single rulebook and have sent an urgent delegation to Downing Street.
I see. So it is now the contention of Leavers that the only way that Conservatives can vote is Leave. Anything else will lead to the Conservative party splitting.
I can't see that line of argument causing any problems in the future.
No. That is view of 130 councillors what wrote to Cameron. They don't speak for all of us so I don't know why you phrase it as if they do.
130 councillors - out of how many? Why make this out to be significant. It may be of course but the onus is on you to show it to be.
"In-fighting over Labour's failures at the last election has seen some argue that the party directed valuable resources in Scotland when it should have been defending seats like that of Ed Balls and others in England."
Which is exactly the point some of us loudly made on here when the scale of the SNP surge came clear.
Labour really were shit in the 2015 General, weren't they?
This is what I don't understand about many Leavers (and I might be one myself). On specific sectors they say we need to leave the EU because we don't have any influence. But that begs the question as to whether they think we would somehow have more influence outside? It's slightly barmy.
If I vote Leave it will be because I am against ever closer union (even with the opt-out enshrined in the Negotiating Text).
But I would fully expect to have land on my doorstep rules and regulations, into which I would have had limited if any input, about all kinds of things, that I know I would have to follow if I wanted to trade with the EU.
We have at present limited influence in the EU, by leaving we would exchange that for control of our own destiny and resources. We would in fact restore the sovereignty of Parliament. To be sure we would still trade, still make agreements, still compromise, still cock it up from time to time but the decisions on all those thing would be made by Parliament and if the people don't like them then they can vote to change the government and have them reversed.
This. One hundred times this.
Democracy means being able to kick the buggers out above all else. The EU appears to be moving in the other direction.
Labour really were shit in the 2015 General, weren't they?
Its a truism that the slightly less sh8t party tends to win general elections, but I'm starting to wonder if that's true here. Dave's misjudging of the public mood on the EU is so colossal, so soon after winning a general election, it is quite remarkable.
Labour really were shit in the 2015 General, weren't they?
Its a truism that the slightly less sh8t party tends to win general elections, but I'm starting to wonder if that's true here. Dave's misjudging of the public mood on the EU is so colossal, so soon after winning a general election, it is quite remarkable.
It's almost as if most people just don't regard membership of the EU as a subject of all-consuming importance.
Just checking, are the people now claiming that Cameron has lost a vote that hasn't been announced on a deal that hasn't been published, the same ones who assured us he had lost the General Election?
The stepbrother of a man who accused a string of Establishment figures of historical sex abuse says he is a serial liar who 'jumped on the bandwagon' to make money.
A man named only as 'Nick' claimed former army chief Lord Bramall, ex-home secretary Lord Brittan and former Prime Minister Sir Edward Heath were involved in abuse.
His claims led to the Metropolitan Police to set up its ill-fated Operation Midland, which has since led to a series of embarrassments for the force.
'Nick's' stepbrother has described claims he was taken from the family home in Wiltshire to London in order to be sexually abused by senior Whitehall figures as 'bizarre' and 'absolute nonsense'.
He says the family only visited London once, on a trip to the Natural History Museum.
Again, you would have thought this stuff would be easily to check within days or weeks. It is bit like William Roache case where some casual checking of records should have stopped it ever getting to trial i.e. "I was picked up in his car model x and taken to his house at ....", checks records of cars and homes owned by Roache, nope doesn't match. Asks for records on when on set, hmm was on set all that day...
Do remind me, how long ago was it that you were intending to vote for Remain?
*Cough*
About as subtle as you can expect from someone who claims undecided but is always attacking Leave supporters as right wing Kippers and then attacks others as 'plants'!!
I said before renegotiation release what my most important issue was on it, and have been honest about my support for what side since that was not achieved. I always try to stick to facts and not make enemies. Don't like it when some make it into game of personal attacks.
''The alternative possibility is that he has judged the public mood perfectly. That seems more likely to me , but we will see in a few months' time. ''
Yes well everything is always perfect in the Cameroonian garden with you. Perfect leader. Perfect chancellor.
Dave badly needs some of those advisors back if his performance in the last fortnight is anything to go by, he has been suffering from a lack of serious opposition under JC's Labour and is now losing the plot on the EU 'deal'.
Not easy, though, if these advisors look at what he has got so far, then look at the entrenched positions of those in Brussels and other European capitals - and tell him:
Apologies (1) if this has been highlighted on a previous thread, and (2) if this extract is too long: Peter Lilley in today's Telegraph
Given that Britain lost its powers in a series of salami slices, I accepted that we could only hope to get powers back bit by bit. I wanted the PM to start that process but knew it would be difficult. It would mean abrogating the doctrine that once a power has been transferred to the EU it can never return to a member state. That doctrine (not “ever closer union”) has driven the process of European integration and is held tenaciously by the European Commission. "Each new directive, regulation and Court ruling will leach power irrevocably from Britain to Europe" To reverse that ratchet required two things. First, create a precedent by getting some modest powers back. Sadly, the PM was unable to get back a single power previously conceded to the EU. Second, whenever the process of integrating the eurozone involves directives or treaty changes requiring our consent, use that leverage to insist on devolving more powers to the UK. Unfortunately, the draft agreement pledges that the UK “shall not impede the implementation of legal acts directly linked to the functioning of the euro area”. That would mean throwing away our trump cards.
Why would we want to cripple the functioning of the Euro area?
Not cripple it, just use it each time as a bargaining chip to get more powers back.
But powers won back can be removed at a later date by Majority Voting of the other members. Five years after we vote 'REMAIN', all powers handed back could be returned to the EU.
Meanwhile the Guardian is imposing 20% cuts, with staff warned in an email this morning that “As our staff costs are by far our biggest overhead, one outcome of the budgeting process may be that redundancies are proposed”. They are looking at 100 redundancies, and according to Beth Rigby they want to start with their “on leave” columnist Seumas Milne. He is in line for a £90,000 payout.
The FT have some killer numbers:
“Fleet Street’s large newsroom may be unsustainable. The Times had 454 editorial staff at last count, The Sun 525, the Daily Telegraph 662 and The Guardian, following expansion overseas, 925.”.
''The alternative possibility is that he has judged the public mood perfectly. That seems more likely to me , but we will see in a few months' time. ''
Yes well everything is always perfect in the Cameroonian garden with you. Perfect leader. Perfect chancellor.
That's not what I said, but for some reason Leavers seem incapable of comprehension.
As for the Chancellor, I've been spectacularly vindicated. What I actually said - back in 2012 IIRC - is that his macro-economic judgement seemed near-perfect. Only someone with a positively Blanchfloweresque degree of wilful blindness could possibly maintain that I have been proved wrong, given that the UK has progressed from being one of the worst-positioned of all major economies in 2010 to one of the best-positioned now.
Labour really were shit in the 2015 General, weren't they?
Its a truism that the slightly less sh8t party tends to win general elections, but I'm starting to wonder if that's true here. Dave's misjudging of the public mood on the EU is so colossal, so soon after winning a general election, it is quite remarkable.
It's almost as if most people just don't regard membership of the EU as a subject of all-consuming importance.
Neither me nor @Plato_Says (Or @TGOHF) do but we're voting to leave. Are we all atypical ?
Labour really were shit in the 2015 General, weren't they?
Its a truism that the slightly less sh8t party tends to win general elections, but I'm starting to wonder if that's true here. Dave's misjudging of the public mood on the EU is so colossal, so soon after winning a general election, it is quite remarkable.
It's almost as if most people just don't regard membership of the EU as a subject of all-consuming importance.
Neither me nor @Plato_Says (Or @TGOHF) do but we're voting to leave. Are we all atypical ?
Dude, they're people posting on a political anorak website. of course they're atypical.
Dave badly needs some of those advisors back if his performance in the last fortnight is anything to go by, he has been suffering from a lack of serious opposition under JC's Labour and is now losing the plot on the EU 'deal'.
Not easy, though, if these advisors look at what he has got so far, then look at the entrenched positions of those in Brussels and other European capitals - and tell him:
"Oh sod it, let's just leave...."
Well that's pretty much my view. The PM tried to get a deal but the EU seem not just disinterested but actively hostile to sensible reforms and as determined as ever to bash the City.
Why should we want be a member of a club that doesn't want us except for our money? Edit: and a large trade deficit. If they want us in their single market they should be paying us!!
The stepbrother of a man who accused a string of Establishment figures of historical sex abuse says he is a serial liar who 'jumped on the bandwagon' to make money.
A man named only as 'Nick' claimed former army chief Lord Bramall, ex-home secretary Lord Brittan and former Prime Minister Sir Edward Heath were involved in abuse.
His claims led to the Metropolitan Police to set up its ill-fated Operation Midland, which has since led to a series of embarrassments for the force.
'Nick's' stepbrother has described claims he was taken from the family home in Wiltshire to London in order to be sexually abused by senior Whitehall figures as 'bizarre' and 'absolute nonsense'.
He says the family only visited London once, on a trip to the Natural History Museum.
Again, you would have thought this stuff would be easily to check within days or weeks. It is bit like William Roache case where some casual checking of records should have stopped it ever getting to trial i.e. "I was picked up in his car model x and taken to his house at ....", checks records of cars and homes owned by Roache, nope doesn't match. Asks for records on when on set, hmm was on set all that day...
We do need a bit of leeway. Would you remember the make and model of someone else's car you got into? If something like that happened once, you would think that the day would stick in the mind but if it was repeated several times then they could easily be confused. Obviously, though, the less reliable detail someone can come up with, the harder it is to confirm.
Isn't Soubry a paid up member of the Europhile club?
You've also basically posted a bunch of "Britain is a shit country and too small to survive alone". I'm not sure that is going to convince as many people as you think it will.
Don't think I've suggested Britain is a shit country - quote? I just think that national bachelorhood is risky.
Yes, Soubry is as pro-EU as I am. She said in local debate that "I follow Ken Clarke in all things". We agree on plenty - she's socially liberal too, and indeed attacked me for being insufficiently early in welcoming gay marriage (I initially thought civil partnerships were a reasonable way forward, and saw the point about equal marriage later). Our differences are partly tribal - she is as instinctively Tory as I'm instinctively Labour - and partly temperamental: our personal styles are about as different as it's possible to be: she sees herself as in constant battle against enemies on all sides, while I basically don't see anyone as an enemy. She's more successful in her party than I was I mine, so that's not necessarily a comparison to my advantage!
Thought she was an SDPer rather than 'instinctively Tory'?
Ken Clarke, same thing. Never a Tory.
Thanks for letting me know that, despite always voting Conservative and for a variety of MPs/candidates across the broad church, I'm not a proper Conservative.
Meanwhile the Guardian is imposing 20% cuts, with staff warned in an email this morning that “As our staff costs are by far our biggest overhead, one outcome of the budgeting process may be that redundancies are proposed”. They are looking at 100 redundancies, and according to Beth Rigby they want to start with their “on leave” columnist Seumas Milne. He is in line for a £90,000 payout.
Oops, if they really are identifying potential individuals before going through all the nonsensical hoops that the law requires, then they could be in serious legal trouble.
Just checking, are the people now claiming that Cameron has lost a vote that hasn't been announced on a deal that hasn't been published, the same ones who assured us he had lost the General Election?
"Farage will not be in the debates. You'll be thanking me for refusing the bet"
Dave badly needs some of those advisors back if his performance in the last fortnight is anything to go by, he has been suffering from a lack of serious opposition under JC's Labour and is now losing the plot on the EU 'deal'.
Not easy, though, if these advisors look at what he has got so far, then look at the entrenched positions of those in Brussels and other European capitals - and tell him:
"Oh sod it, let's just leave...."
Well that's pretty much my view. The PM tried to get a deal but the EU seem not just disinterested but actively hostile to sensible reforms and as determined as ever to bash the City.
Why should we want be a member of a club that doesn't want us except for our money? Edit: and a large trade deficit. If they want us in their single market they should be paying us!!
I suspect that the other EU leaders are also a little busy panicking about the migrant crisis right now.
The stepbrother of a man who accused a string of Establishment figures of historical sex abuse says he is a serial liar who 'jumped on the bandwagon' to make money.
A man named only as 'Nick' claimed former army chief Lord Bramall, ex-home secretary Lord Brittan and former Prime Minister Sir Edward Heath were involved in abuse.
His claims led to the Metropolitan Police to set up its ill-fated Operation Midland, which has since led to a series of embarrassments for the force.
'Nick's' stepbrother has described claims he was taken from the family home in Wiltshire to London in order to be sexually abused by senior Whitehall figures as 'bizarre' and 'absolute nonsense'.
He says the family only visited London once, on a trip to the Natural History Museum.
Again, you would have thought this stuff would be easily to check within days or weeks. It is bit like William Roache case where some casual checking of records should have stopped it ever getting to trial i.e. "I was picked up in his car model x and taken to his house at ....", checks records of cars and homes owned by Roache, nope doesn't match. Asks for records on when on set, hmm was on set all that day...
We do need a bit of leeway. Would you remember the make and model of someone else's car you got into? If something like that happened once, you would think that the day would stick in the mind but if it was repeated several times then they could easily be confused. Obviously, though, the less reliable detail someone can come up with, the harder it is to confirm.
It's more such claims as Ted Heath and Harvey Proctor attending sex parties together, where they raped and tortured boys, that one would expect to be viewed with a degree of scepticism.
Dave badly needs some of those advisors back if his performance in the last fortnight is anything to go by, he has been suffering from a lack of serious opposition under JC's Labour and is now losing the plot on the EU 'deal'.
Not easy, though, if these advisors look at what he has got so far, then look at the entrenched positions of those in Brussels and other European capitals - and tell him:
"Oh sod it, let's just leave...."
Well that's pretty much my view. The PM tried to get a deal but the EU seem not just disinterested but actively hostile to sensible reforms and as determined as ever to bash the City.
Why should we want be a member of a club that doesn't want us except for our money? Edit: and a large trade deficit. If they want us in their single market they should be paying us!!
Labour really were shit in the 2015 General, weren't they?
Its a truism that the slightly less sh8t party tends to win general elections, but I'm starting to wonder if that's true here. Dave's misjudging of the public mood on the EU is so colossal, so soon after winning a general election, it is quite remarkable.
It's almost as if most people just don't regard membership of the EU as a subject of all-consuming importance.
Neither me nor @Plato_Says (Or @TGOHF) do but we're voting to leave. Are we all atypical ?
Dude, they're people posting on a political anorak website. of course they're atypical.
Some of us who are interested in politics find the entire EU debate as interesting as cold porridge.. I refuse to get excited about something which is maybe a year away and currently up in the air.
The stepbrother of a man who accused a string of Establishment figures of historical sex abuse says he is a serial liar who 'jumped on the bandwagon' to make money.
A man named only as 'Nick' claimed former army chief Lord Bramall, ex-home secretary Lord Brittan and former Prime Minister Sir Edward Heath were involved in abuse.
His claims led to the Metropolitan Police to set up its ill-fated Operation Midland, which has since led to a series of embarrassments for the force.
'Nick's' stepbrother has described claims he was taken from the family home in Wiltshire to London in order to be sexually abused by senior Whitehall figures as 'bizarre' and 'absolute nonsense'.
He says the family only visited London once, on a trip to the Natural History Museum.
Again, you would have thought this stuff would be easily to check within days or weeks. It is bit like William Roache case where some casual checking of records should have stopped it ever getting to trial i.e. "I was picked up in his car model x and taken to his house at ....", checks records of cars and homes owned by Roache, nope doesn't match. Asks for records on when on set, hmm was on set all that day...
We do need a bit of leeway. Would you remember the make and model of someone else's car you got into? If something like that happened once, you would think that the day would stick in the mind but if it was repeated several times then they could easily be confused. Obviously, though, the less reliable detail someone can come up with, the harder it is to confirm.
I agree to a certain extent. You could absolutely confuse the model of a car. However, if you look back at the trial, these kind of details were consistency wrong time and time and time again. My point was the CPS / plod seemed somehow shocked that this might just be a problem with their case. The defence literally found every single story so full of holes it was embarrassing, wrong car, houses in areas Roche had never lived, on days when he was at work etc etc etc.
And it seems from the step brothers statement in these other cases that it shouldn't have taken long to check out quite a few details that wouldn't have stacked up.
It isn't that the plod shouldn't investigate, it is they appears to takes years to check out stuff that shouldn't take too long and / or have ignored bigger plot holes than the new Star Wars film.
This is what I don't understand about many Leavers (and I might be one myself). On specific sectors they say we need to leave the EU because we don't have any influence. But that begs the question as to whether they think we would somehow have more influence outside? It's slightly barmy.
If I vote Leave it will be because I am against ever closer union (even with the opt-out enshrined in the Negotiating Text).
But I would fully expect to have land on my doorstep rules and regulations, into which I would have had limited if any input, about all kinds of things, that I know I would have to follow if I wanted to trade with the EU.
How would that be different from from the rules and regulations relating to trade that just about every county enforces? We have very little if any influence over the creation of such rules in the USA, China, Australia and anywhere else but we seem to manage to trade with them quite happily.
Of course the corollary is that the UK would be free to introduce its own trade rules which other countries would need to comply with if they want to sell in to our market and that might be a very good thing in some sectors (animal welfare in farming for example).
We have at present limited influence in the EU, by leaving we would exchange that for control of our own destiny and resources. We would in fact restore the sovereignty of Parliament. To be sure we would still trade, still make agreements, still compromise, still cock it up from time to time but the decisions on all those thing would be made by Parliament and if the people don't like them then they can vote to change the government and have them reversed.
It wouldn't be different at all. We would have no influence over the EU rules. Now, we discussed this at length the other day (and I have a feeling we will discuss it regularly until the referendum), but take financial services, and trading european shares. If we want to (and we do), we have to abide by the rules of the EU. And we have abide by the rules of the US in trading US shares. At present, we have a seat at the table which determines what those EU rules are.
If we were to leave the EU we would be presented with those rules and have to follow them if we wanted to trade european shares.
Of course we could make our own rules about UK share trading - indeed we have plenty - but that doesn't alter the fact that for eg. european share trading, let's call that a proxy for the importance of the City, being a part of the EU lets us to a greater or lesser extent design the rules of the game. Being out of the EU would mean we had no input.
Why are all the ex pat scots here so furious about Swinney's Tory-lite policies in the Scottish money seat ?
I'd have thought you'd all be very happy with him !
Generally we are.
Its the resident Nationalists who are reduced to splenetic incoherence when the similarities between the Tartan Tories and the genuine article are pointed out.....
'We have very little if any influence over the creation of such rules in the USA, China, Australia and anywhere else but we seem to manage to trade with them quite happily. '
Indeed and with respect to finance & insurance it is notable that UK exports to the USA are similar in size to those to the EU.
Despite the fact we don't have any say in the rule making in the USA, we have been very successful there for decades. We would no doubt continue to be successful in EU markets as well outside the EU - though it's also worth noting the share of business we do in those markets is in gentle decline already, reflecting the EU's shrinking importance on the global stage.
The stepbrother of a man who accused a string of Establishment figures of historical sex abuse says he is a serial liar who 'jumped on the bandwagon' to make money.
He says the family only visited London once, on a trip to the Natural History Museum.
Again, you would have thought this stuff would be easily to check within days or weeks. It is bit like William Roache case where some casual checking of records should have stopped it ever getting to trial i.e. "I was picked up in his car model x and taken to his house at ....", checks records of cars and homes owned by Roache, nope doesn't match. Asks for records on when on set, hmm was on set all that day...
We do need a bit of leeway. Would you remember the make and model of someone else's car you got into? If something like that happened once, you would think that the day would stick in the mind but if it was repeated several times then they could easily be confused. Obviously, though, the less reliable detail someone can come up with, the harder it is to confirm.
It's more such claims as Ted Heath and Harvey Proctor attending sex parties together, where they raped and tortured boys, that one would expect to be viewed with a degree of scepticism.
Just the 'actual 'cover up needed for something like that would have been extraordinary. It's akin to the logistics actually need for the WTC to be blown up with explosives, or faking the moon landing.
Dave badly needs some of those advisors back if his performance in the last fortnight is anything to go by, he has been suffering from a lack of serious opposition under JC's Labour and is now losing the plot on the EU 'deal'.
Not easy, though, if these advisors look at what he has got so far, then look at the entrenched positions of those in Brussels and other European capitals - and tell him:
"Oh sod it, let's just leave...."
Well that's pretty much my view. The PM tried to get a deal but the EU seem not just disinterested but actively hostile to sensible reforms and as determined as ever to bash the City.
Why should we want be a member of a club that doesn't want us except for our money? Edit: and a large trade deficit. If they want us in their single market they should be paying us!!
I suspect that the other EU leaders are also a little busy panicking about the migrant crisis right now.
There will always be a crisis of one form or another though. At some point you have to respond to reform demands on other matters.
It's more such claims as Ted Heath and Harvey Proctor attending sex parties together, where they raped and tortured boys, that one would expect to be viewed with a degree of scepticism.
Harvey Proctor's demolition of the nonsense was absolutely brilliant:
One does wonder how the police could possibly have taken 'Nick' seriously.
Although the subject matter is far from funny, I did laugh out loud at the bit about the penknife:
I was asked if I could recognise images of the pen knife mentioned earlier. It was suggested it was Edward Heath who persuaded me not to castrate “Nick” with it. I was obviously so persuaded by Mr Heath’s intervention that I placed the pen knife in “Nick’s” pocket ready for him to present it to the Metropolitan police over 30 years later as “evidence”.
Just checking, are the people now claiming that Cameron has lost a vote that hasn't been announced on a deal that hasn't been published, the same ones who assured us he had lost the General Election?
Dave badly needs some of those advisors back if his performance in the last fortnight is anything to go by, he has been suffering from a lack of serious opposition under JC's Labour and is now losing the plot on the EU 'deal'.
Not easy, though, if these advisors look at what he has got so far, then look at the entrenched positions of those in Brussels and other European capitals - and tell him:
"Oh sod it, let's just leave...."
Well that's pretty much my view. The PM tried to get a deal but the EU seem not just disinterested but actively hostile to sensible reforms and as determined as ever to bash the City.
Why should we want be a member of a club that doesn't want us except for our money? Edit: and a large trade deficit. If they want us in their single market they should be paying us!!
If Scotland runs a trade deficit with the rest of the UK, would you expect the rest of the UK to pay a post-independence Scotland to share a single market?
The stepbrother of a man who accused a string of Establishment figures of historical sex abuse says he is a serial liar who 'jumped on the bandwagon' to make money.
A man named only as 'Nick' claimed former army chief Lord Bramall, ex-home secretary Lord Brittan and former Prime Minister Sir Edward Heath were involved in abuse.
His claims led to the Metropolitan Police to set up its ill-fated Operation Midland, which has since led to a series of embarrassments for the force.
'Nick's' stepbrother has described claims he was taken from the family home in Wiltshire to London in order to be sexually abused by senior Whitehall figures as 'bizarre' and 'absolute nonsense'.
He says the family only visited London once, on a trip to the Natural History Museum.
Again, you would have thought this stuff would be easily to check within days or weeks. It is bit like William Roache case where some casual checking of records should have stopped it ever getting to trial i.e. "I was picked up in his car model x and taken to his house at ....", checks records of cars and homes owned by Roache, nope doesn't match. Asks for records on when on set, hmm was on set all that day...
We do need a bit of leeway. Would you remember the make and model of someone else's car you got into? If something like that happened once, you would think that the day would stick in the mind but if it was repeated several times then they could easily be confused. Obviously, though, the less reliable detail someone can come up with, the harder it is to confirm.
It's more such claims as Ted Heath and Harvey Proctor attending sex parties together, where they raped and tortured boys, that one would expect to be viewed with a degree of scepticism.
Why are all the ex pat scots here so furious about Swinney's Tory-lite policies in the Scottish money seat ?
I'd have thought you'd all be very happy with him !
Generally we are.
Its the resident Nationalists who are reduced to splenetic incoherence when the similarities between the Tartan Tories and the genuine article are pointed out.....
This is what I don't understand about many Leavers (and I might be one myself). On specific sectors they say we need to leave the EU because we don't have any influence. But that begs the question as to whether they think we would somehow have more influence outside? It's slightly barmy.
If I vote Leave it will be because I am against ever closer union (even with the opt-out enshrined in the Negotiating Text).
But I would fully expect to have land on my doorstep rules and regulations, into which I would have had limited if any input, about all kinds of things, that I know I would have to follow if I wanted to trade with the EU.
How would that be different from from the rules and regulations relating to trade that just about every county enforces? We have very little if any influence over the creation of such rules in the USA, China, Australia and anywhere else but we seem to manage to trade with them quite happily.
Of course the corollary is that the UK would be free to introduce its own trade rules which other countries would need to comply with if they want to sell in to our market and that might be a very good thing in some sectors (animal welfare in farming for example).
We have at present limited influence in the EU, by leaving we would exchange that for control of our own destiny and resources. We would in fact restore the sovereignty of Parliament. To be sure we would still trade, still make agreements, still compromise, still cock it up from time to time but the decisions on all those thing would be made by Parliament and if the people don't like them then they can vote to change the government and have them reversed.
It wouldn't be different at all. We would have no influence over the EU rules. Now, we discussed this at length the other day (and I have a feeling we will discuss it regularly until the referendum), but take financ shares.
Of course we could make our own rules about UK share trading - indeed we have plenty - but that doesn't alter the fact that for eg. european share trading, let's call that a proxy for the importance of the City, being a part of the EU lets us to a greater or lesser extent design the rules of the game. Being out of the EU would mean we had no input.
We don't have a seat at Eurogroup table, which is one that really matters for banking union rules. And inside EU its not just having to follow rules for trading EU shares but also how banks are governed, how much and in what way finance folk are paid, what sort of mortgages we can give out in UK etc etc. So we have no more influence in rule setting but are affected by much greater share of rules.
I see. So it is now the contention of Leavers that the only way that Conservatives can vote is Leave. Anything else will lead to the Conservative party splitting.
I can't see that line of argument causing any problems in the future.
As someone who hasn't made his mind up yet, why do you feel the need to keep taking the individual view of a leaver and infer that all leavers agree?
Also, which leavers on here aren't 'nutters howling at the moon?' Yesterday you bunched together a load of Cameroons that want to leave (marquee mark, tgohf, Plato I think) being critical as 'commited leavers' which seems to be used as a derogatory term (obvs with the get out that it might not be)
Well, this was a view of 130 Leavers in a round-robin letter, written no doubt after careful drafting and with its signatories presumably in firm agreement. It's not the individual view of a Leaver.
I have no idea why others are quite so interested in my own take on the referendum. I'm just one voter who readily concedes that his views are wildly outside the mainstream of public opinion. A couple of years ago I put up my views on the EU at length and more or less got the response "you don't mean that really" , which means that I'm not particularly interested in going to that effort again right now, particularly as it's going to change the square root of f all.
There's an obvious plant on the Leave side on the site right now but I don't particularly feel the need to get into a slanging match about that. I have no intention of categorising posters. Pigeonholes are for pigeons.
" I'm just one voter who readily concedes that his views are wildly outside the mainstream of public opinion"
Yes, applauding Merkel last summer and abusing anyone who didn't agree we should take over 100,000 of the migrants right then and there was a bit at odds with public opinion
It's like an irksome aunt insisting on a tea cosy being used when she visits. That's if we leave the EU. If we stay in, we always have to use the tea cosy, whether she's there or not. And it costs us £7bn or so a year.
So, we can have no say over something that affects a percentage of our trade, or no say over something that we always have to apply to everything. And pay more for the latter.
Dave badly needs some of those advisors back if his performance in the last fortnight is anything to go by, he has been suffering from a lack of serious opposition under JC's Labour and is now losing the plot on the EU 'deal'.
Not easy, though, if these advisors look at what he has got so far, then look at the entrenched positions of those in Brussels and other European capitals - and tell him:
"Oh sod it, let's just leave...."
Well that's pretty much my view. The PM tried to get a deal but the EU seem not just disinterested but actively hostile to sensible reforms and as determined as ever to bash the City.
Why should we want be a member of a club that doesn't want us except for our money? Edit: and a large trade deficit. If they want us in their single market they should be paying us!!
I suspect that the other EU leaders are also a little busy panicking about the migrant crisis right now.
True, but that hasn't stopped them from taking the PMs deal from last week and watering it down some more. To me the 'deal' has just reinforced the point that the EU is unreformable. A good deal would have persuaded me to vote Remain. What's on the table now is, as others have said, worse than nothing.
Why are all the ex pat scots here so furious about Swinney's Tory-lite policies in the Scottish money seat ?
I'd have thought you'd all be very happy with him !
Generally we are.
Its the resident Nationalists who are reduced to splenetic incoherence when the similarities between the Tartan Tories and the genuine article are pointed out.....
It's like an irksome aunt insisting on a tea cosy being used when she visits. That's if we leave the EU. If we stay in, we always have to use the tea cosy, whether she's there or not. And it costs us £7bn or so a year.
So, we can have no say over something that affects a percentage of our trade, or no say over something that we always have to apply to everything. And pay more for the latter.
Dave badly needs some of those advisors back if his performance in the last fortnight is anything to go by, he has been suffering from a lack of serious opposition under JC's Labour and is now losing the plot on the EU 'deal'.
Not easy, though, if these advisors look at what he has got so far, then look at the entrenched positions of those in Brussels and other European capitals - and tell him:
"Oh sod it, let's just leave...."
Well that's pretty much my view. The PM tried to get a deal but the EU seem not just disinterested but actively hostile to sensible reforms and as determined as ever to bash the City.
Why should we want be a member of a club that doesn't want us except for our money? Edit: and a large trade deficit. If they want us in their single market they should be paying us!!
With the cuts at the Guardian and the rumours about the end for the Independent I am coming to the conclusion that the end is nigh for much of Fleet Street. It makes their attitude to fellow newspapers at the Levison enquiry even more incomprehensible. The Guardians circulation is now down to 185000 which is less than the Daily Record in Scotland. Put another way, if you walk along a street in the UK and see 240 adults one would actually have bought a copy of the Guardian. This is not viable for much longer. Seumas Milne may be better off out.I look forward to the Guardian headline "Brutal cuts-Tories urged to save newspaper"
That's what they said about Jimmy Savile. Where plod failed imo was in not looking for evidence that, for instance, the dead boys were (a) dead and (b) had ever been born. The pendulum swung from automatic disbelief all the way across to complete gullibility. Lord Bramall is lucky it never got to court in front of a jury who might convict on a "no smoke without fire" basis.
The stepbrother of a man who accused a string of Establishment figures of historical sex abuse says he is a serial liar who 'jumped on the bandwagon' to make money.
A man named only as 'Nick' claimed former army chief Lord Bramall, ex-home secretary Lord Brittan and former Prime Minister Sir Edward Heath were involved in abuse.
His claims led to the Metropolitan Police to set up its ill-fated Operation Midland, which has since led to a series of embarrassments for the force.
'Nick's' stepbrother has described claims he was taken from the family home in Wiltshire to London in order to be sexually abused by senior Whitehall figures as 'bizarre' and 'absolute nonsense'.
He says the family only visited London once, on a trip to the Natural History Museum.
Again, you would have thought this stuff would be easily to check within days or weeks. It is bit like William Roache case where some casual checking of records should have stopped it ever getting to trial i.e. "I was picked up in his car model x and taken to his house at ....", checks records of cars and homes owned by Roache, nope doesn't match. Asks for records on when on set, hmm was on set all that day...
We do need a bit of leeway. Would you remember the make and model of someone else's car you got into? If something like that happened once, you would think that the day would stick in the mind but if it was repeated several times then they could easily be confused. Obviously, though, the less reliable detail someone can come up with, the harder it is to confirm.
It's more such claims as Ted Heath and Harvey Proctor attending sex parties together, where they raped and tortured boys, that one would expect to be viewed with a degree of scepticism.
This is what I don't understand about many Leavers (and I might be one myself). On specific sectors they say we need to leave the EU because we don't have any influence. But that begs the question as to whether they think we would somehow have more influence outside? It's slightly barmy.
If I vote Leave it will be because I am against ever closer union (even with the opt-out enshrined in the Negotiating Text).
But I would fully expect to have land on my doorstep rules and regulations, into which I would have had limited if any input, about all kinds of things, that I know I would have to follow if I wanted to trade with the EU.
There are a number of elements to this.
1. If we were outside the EU and inside EFTA then the only rules that would apply to the UK would be those related to the single market. Vast swathes of the most contentious and damaging rules would no longer apply. This in itself for me is reason enough immediately to choose out.
2. As a member of EFTA/EEA we would have as much if not more influence on single market policy than we do now.
3. Currently we have very limited influence or rights at organisations such as the WTO where the EU speaks for us in a previously agreed unified position whether we like it or not. Thre are many supranational bodies setting global standards where this applies. Norway on the other hand has a vote and a veto since EFTA does not have a enforced single voice.
Basically inside or outside the EU there are standards we have to abide by in world trade. But they apply to trade alone and not to the other vast swathes of policy where currently we are subservient to the EU.
I happen to disagree with OGH about last nights DNC debate, I found it terribly boring, both candidates were without energy, Hillary's entire pitch was that she agreed with Sanders on every issue followed by a "but" and "Obama". Not to mention dressed as a canary didn't do her any favours visually.
That's what they said about Jimmy Savile. Where plod failed imo was in not looking for evidence that, for instance, the dead boys were (a) dead and (b) had ever been born. The pendulum swung from automatic disbelief all the way across to complete gullibility. Lord Bramall is lucky it never got to court in front of a jury who might convict on a "no smoke without fire" basis.
A man named only as 'Nick' claimed former army chief Lord Bramall, ex-home secretary Lord Brittan and former Prime Minister Sir Edward Heath were involved in abuse.
His claims led to the Metropolitan Police to set up its ill-fated Operation Midland, which has since led to a series of embarrassments for the force.
'Nick's' stepbrother has described claims he was taken from the family home in Wiltshire to London in order to be sexually abused by senior Whitehall figures as 'bizarre' and 'absolute nonsense'.
He says the family only visited London once, on a trip to the Natural History Museum.
Again, you would have thought this stuff would be easily to check within days or weeks. It is bit like William Roache case where some casual checking of records should have stopped it ever getting to trial i.e. "I was picked up in his car model x and taken to his house at ....", checks records of cars and homes owned by Roache, nope doesn't match. Asks for records on when on set, hmm was on set all that day...
We do need a bit of leeway. Would you remember the make and model of someone else's car you got into? If something like that happened once, you would think that the day would stick in the mind but if it was repeated several times then they could easily be confused. Obviously, though, the less reliable detail someone can come up with, the harder it is to confirm.
It's more such claims as Ted Heath and Harvey Proctor attending sex parties together, where they raped and tortured boys, that one would expect to be viewed with a degree of scepticism.
Oh I sure that boys and girls have been abused by people in power. Savile, as far as we know didn't kill anyone, and we don't really know how far and how many his abuse went, but it sounds like he was a 'lone wolf' as opposed to a member of a large ring of abusers.
I think there's a bit difference between an abuser, and a serial murder ring though. The sheer coverup needed for a series of murders would be huge.
With the cuts at the Guardian and the rumours about the end for the Independent I am coming to the conclusion that the end is nigh for much of Fleet Street. It makes their attitude to fellow newspapers at the Levison enquiry even more incomprehensible. The Guardians circulation is now down to 185000 which is less than the Daily Record in Scotland. Put another way, if you walk along a street in the UK and see 240 adults one would actually have bought a copy of the Guardian. This is not viable for much longer. Seumas Milne may be better off out.I look forward to the Guardian headline "Brutal cuts-Tories urged to save newspaper"
Good riddance to them , expensive toilet paper nowadays. Scotsman is up for sale at less than £10M, they are struggling to give it away.
Mr. Alistair, weren't bad against England, and were impressive in the World Cup, but I suspect Wales will win.
We were woeful against England, absolute toothless garbage. England were bad, Scotland were worse. We wouldn't have scored a try if the game was still being played now and England had gone home.
We had one good (indeed very good) game in the cup against Australia - but all of our pool games were varying shades of cringe inducing 40 minute only performances. We came within a whisker of losing to Samoa and going out of the World Cup in the group stages.
With the cuts at the Guardian and the rumours about the end for the Independent I am coming to the conclusion that the end is nigh for much of Fleet Street. It makes their attitude to fellow newspapers at the Levison enquiry even more incomprehensible. The Guardians circulation is now down to 185000 which is less than the Daily Record in Scotland. Put another way, if you walk along a street in the UK and see 240 adults one would actually have bought a copy of the Guardian. This is not viable for much longer. Seumas Milne may be better off out.I look forward to the Guardian headline "Brutal cuts-Tories urged to save newspaper"
How much of the Guardian "circulation" of 185,000 is actually bought - and how much of it freebies?
With the cuts at the Guardian and the rumours about the end for the Independent I am coming to the conclusion that the end is nigh for much of Fleet Street. It makes their attitude to fellow newspapers at the Levison enquiry even more incomprehensible. The Guardians circulation is now down to 185000 which is less than the Daily Record in Scotland. Put another way, if you walk along a street in the UK and see 240 adults one would actually have bought a copy of the Guardian. This is not viable for much longer. Seumas Milne may be better off out.I look forward to the Guardian headline "Brutal cuts-Tories urged to save newspaper"
How much of the Guardian "circulation" of 185,000 is actually bought - and how much of it freebies?
And how much are for people which work at the BBC...
This is what I don't understand about many Leavers (and I might be one myself). On specific sectors they say we need to leave the EU because we don't have any influence. But that begs the question as to whether they think we would somehow have more influence outside? It's slightly barmy.
If I vote Leave it will be because I am against ever closer union (even with the opt-out enshrined in the Negotiating Text).
But I would fully expect to have land on my doorstep rules and regulations, into which I would have had limited if any input, about all kinds of things, that I know I would have to follow if I wanted to trade with the EU.
There are a number of elements to this.
1. If we were outside the EU and inside EFTA then the only rules that would apply to the UK would be those related to the single market. Vast swathes of the most contentious and damaging rules would no longer apply. This in itself for me is reason enough immediately to choose out.
2. As a member of EFTA/EEA we would have as much if not more influence on single market policy than we do now.
3. Currently we have very limited influence or rights at organisations such as the WTO where the EU speaks for us in a previously agreed unified position whether we like it or not. Thre are many supranational bodies setting global standards where this applies. Norway on the other hand has a vote and a veto since EFTA does not have a enforced single voice.
Basically inside or outside the EU there are standards we have to abide by in world trade. But they apply to trade alone and not to the other vast swathes of policy where currently we are subservient to the EU.
Dave badly needs some of those advisors back if his performance in the last fortnight is anything to go by, he has been suffering from a lack of serious opposition under JC's Labour and is now losing the plot on the EU 'deal'.
Not easy, though, if these advisors look at what he has got so far, then look at the entrenched positions of those in Brussels and other European capitals - and tell him:
"Oh sod it, let's just leave...."
Well that's pretty much my view. The PM tried to get a deal but the EU seem not just disinterested but actively hostile to sensible reforms and as determined as ever to bash the City.
Why should we want be a member of a club that doesn't want us except for our money? Edit: and a large trade deficit. If they want us in their single market they should be paying us!!
I suspect that the other EU leaders are also a little busy panicking about the migrant crisis right now.
True, but that hasn't stopped them from taking the PMs deal from last week and watering it down some more. To me the 'deal' has just reinforced the point that the EU is unreformable. A good deal would have persuaded me to vote Remain. What's on the table now is, as others have said, worse than nothing.
With the cuts at the Guardian and the rumours about the end for the Independent I am coming to the conclusion that the end is nigh for much of Fleet Street. It makes their attitude to fellow newspapers at the Levison enquiry even more incomprehensible. The Guardians circulation is now down to 185000 which is less than the Daily Record in Scotland. Put another way, if you walk along a street in the UK and see 240 adults one would actually have bought a copy of the Guardian. This is not viable for much longer. Seumas Milne may be better off out.I look forward to the Guardian headline "Brutal cuts-Tories urged to save newspaper"
How much of the Guardian "circulation" of 185,000 is actually bought - and how much of it freebies?
With the cuts at the Guardian and the rumours about the end for the Independent I am coming to the conclusion that the end is nigh for much of Fleet Street. It makes their attitude to fellow newspapers at the Levison enquiry even more incomprehensible. The Guardians circulation is now down to 185000 which is less than the Daily Record in Scotland. Put another way, if you walk along a street in the UK and see 240 adults one would actually have bought a copy of the Guardian. This is not viable for much longer. Seumas Milne may be better off out.I look forward to the Guardian headline "Brutal cuts-Tories urged to save newspaper"
I sold for 24M and supposedly the independent/Independant Sunday last editions on 26th March.
With the cuts at the Guardian and the rumours about the end for the Independent I am coming to the conclusion that the end is nigh for much of Fleet Street. It makes their attitude to fellow newspapers at the Levison enquiry even more incomprehensible. The Guardians circulation is now down to 185000 which is less than the Daily Record in Scotland. Put another way, if you walk along a street in the UK and see 240 adults one would actually have bought a copy of the Guardian. This is not viable for much longer. Seumas Milne may be better off out.I look forward to the Guardian headline "Brutal cuts-Tories urged to save newspaper"
How much of the Guardian "circulation" of 185,000 is actually bought - and how much of it freebies?
Dave badly needs some of those advisors back if his performance in the last fortnight is anything to go by, he has been suffering from a lack of serious opposition under JC's Labour and is now losing the plot on the EU 'deal'.
Not easy, though, if these advisors look at what he has got so far, then look at the entrenched positions of those in Brussels and other European capitals - and tell him:
"Oh sod it, let's just leave...."
Well that's pretty much my view. The PM tried to get a deal but the EU seem not just disinterested but actively hostile to sensible reforms and as determined as ever to bash the City.
Why should we want be a member of a club that doesn't want us except for our money? Edit: and a large trade deficit. If they want us in their single market they should be paying us!!
LOL at that analogy!
It comprehensively misses the point.
One side exports c15+% of its exports to the other. The other side exports c40+% of its exports to the other*. Which needs to make exports to the other more badly?
*Exact percentages are really not all that relevant, by any measure the one side is proportionately far greater than the other.
Dave badly needs some of those advisors back if his performance in the last fortnight is anything to go by, he has been suffering from a lack of serious opposition under JC's Labour and is now losing the plot on the EU 'deal'.
Not easy, though, if these advisors look at what he has got so far, then look at the entrenched positions of those in Brussels and other European capitals - and tell him:
"Oh sod it, let's just leave...."
Well that's pretty much my view. The PM tried to get a deal but the EU seem not just disinterested but actively hostile to sensible reforms and as determined as ever to bash the City.
Why should we want be a member of a club that doesn't want us except for our money? Edit: and a large trade deficit. If they want us in their single market they should be paying us!!
I suspect that the other EU leaders are also a little busy panicking about the migrant crisis right now.
Additionally, if we remain, they may well be preparing to give (gift) us something substantial over the next few years: as many of their newly-EU-passported migrants as wish to come. But, perhaps, I'm being paranoid ....
The Labour leader's director of communications has been on "voluntary leave" from the title since last October, an arrangement regarded as increasingly untenable. Not only does it threaten to impinge on the Guardian's fair and balanced reporting, it also hardly amounts to a vote of confidence by Milne in Corbyn.
Perhaps the new owners might actually have a business brain i.e. perhaps some simple stuff like offer season passes. The current 10% discount if you are a regular user and prepay is a joke.
With the cuts at the Guardian and the rumours about the end for the Independent I am coming to the conclusion that the end is nigh for much of Fleet Street. It makes their attitude to fellow newspapers at the Levison enquiry even more incomprehensible. The Guardians circulation is now down to 185000 which is less than the Daily Record in Scotland. Put another way, if you walk along a street in the UK and see 240 adults one would actually have bought a copy of the Guardian. This is not viable for much longer. Seumas Milne may be better off out.I look forward to the Guardian headline "Brutal cuts-Tories urged to save newspaper"
How much of the Guardian "circulation" of 185,000 is actually bought - and how much of it freebies?
And how much are for people which work at the BBC...
Comments
Dave badly needs some of those advisors back if his performance in the last fortnight is anything to go by, he has been suffering from a lack of serious opposition under JC's Labour and is now losing the plot on the EU 'deal'.
They do not want to tax the poor and the petty powers they have do not allow them to achieve this
The Tories in Westminster cut the Scottish budget and council spending
Next lie
I wonder if it is at least partly a question of definition - I think I'm right in saying that any sex, even if consensual in the everyday sense of the word, with an underage girl is classed as rape, which would skew the figures.
That wouldn't explain the under-10 figure, though. Can it really be right?
Millie Dowler was 13 wasn't she. Abducted tortured and raped by a white male.
During the investigation a threatening letter was sent to Dowler's family by someone already in jail for indecently assaulting a 12 year old girl.
Of course the corollary is that the UK would be free to introduce its own trade rules which other countries would need to comply with if they want to sell in to our market and that might be a very good thing in some sectors (animal welfare in farming for example).
We have at present limited influence in the EU, by leaving we would exchange that for control of our own destiny and resources. We would in fact restore the sovereignty of Parliament. To be sure we would still trade, still make agreements, still compromise, still cock it up from time to time but the decisions on all those thing would be made by Parliament and if the people don't like them then they can vote to change the government and have them reversed.
"This is something Nicola Sturgeon used to believe in. She used to say more powers meant fewer cuts, but now her SNP Government will vote with the Tories to continue the cuts."
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14271441.Income_tax_in_Scotland_to_remain_in_line_with_rest_of_UK_after_vote/
I'd have thought you'd all be very happy with him !
Danny Fink was one IIRC and ended up writing speeches for Major.
Which is exactly the point some of us loudly made on here when the scale of the SNP surge came clear.
Labour really were shit in the 2015 General, weren't they?
Soubry reminds us that being rude feisty and being in the political centre are not incompatible.
Democracy means being able to kick the buggers out above all else. The EU appears to be moving in the other direction.
Its a truism that the slightly less sh8t party tends to win general elections, but I'm starting to wonder if that's true here. Dave's misjudging of the public mood on the EU is so colossal, so soon after winning a general election, it is quite remarkable.
A man named only as 'Nick' claimed former army chief Lord Bramall, ex-home secretary Lord Brittan and former Prime Minister Sir Edward Heath were involved in abuse.
His claims led to the Metropolitan Police to set up its ill-fated Operation Midland, which has since led to a series of embarrassments for the force.
'Nick's' stepbrother has described claims he was taken from the family home in Wiltshire to London in order to be sexually abused by senior Whitehall figures as 'bizarre' and 'absolute nonsense'.
He says the family only visited London once, on a trip to the Natural History Museum.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3443490/Stepbrother-VIP-paedophile-ring-accuser-says-serial-liar.html
Again, you would have thought this stuff would be easily to check within days or weeks. It is bit like William Roache case where some casual checking of records should have stopped it ever getting to trial i.e. "I was picked up in his car model x and taken to his house at ....", checks records of cars and homes owned by Roache, nope doesn't match. Asks for records on when on set, hmm was on set all that day...
I said before renegotiation release what my most important issue was on it, and have been honest about my support for what side since that was not achieved. I always try to stick to facts and not make enemies. Don't like it when some make it into game of personal attacks.
Only 13% are dissatisfied with process of voting, and only 11% *of them* want a proportional system - source https://t.co/Vnd4y0db0Q
Yes well everything is always perfect in the Cameroonian garden with you. Perfect leader. Perfect chancellor.
"Oh sod it, let's just leave...."
Do you think they might be related
As for the Chancellor, I've been spectacularly vindicated. What I actually said - back in 2012 IIRC - is that his macro-economic judgement seemed near-perfect. Only someone with a positively Blanchfloweresque degree of wilful blindness could possibly maintain that I have been proved wrong, given that the UK has progressed from being one of the worst-positioned of all major economies in 2010 to one of the best-positioned now.
Why should we want be a member of a club that doesn't want us except for our money? Edit: and a large trade deficit. If they want us in their single market they should be paying us!!
And indeed, never.
It's so bleeding obvious, and insulting. A bit of self respect is required here.
And it seems from the step brothers statement in these other cases that it shouldn't have taken long to check out quite a few details that wouldn't have stacked up.
It isn't that the plod shouldn't investigate, it is they appears to takes years to check out stuff that shouldn't take too long and / or have ignored bigger plot holes than the new Star Wars film.
If we were to leave the EU we would be presented with those rules and have to follow them if we wanted to trade european shares.
Of course we could make our own rules about UK share trading - indeed we have plenty - but that doesn't alter the fact that for eg. european share trading, let's call that a proxy for the importance of the City, being a part of the EU lets us to a greater or lesser extent design the rules of the game. Being out of the EU would mean we had no input.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/02/12/quantity_of_candidates_does_not_equal_quality_129645.html
Take a look at the picture - apparently Marco Rubio is 1.78 metres and Ted Cruz is 1.73 ?!
Its the resident Nationalists who are reduced to splenetic incoherence when the similarities between the Tartan Tories and the genuine article are pointed out.....
They're not difficult to spot:
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Indeed and with respect to finance & insurance it is notable that UK exports to the USA are similar in size to those to the EU.
Despite the fact we don't have any say in the rule making in the USA, we have been very successful there for decades. We would no doubt continue to be successful in EU markets as well outside the EU - though it's also worth noting the share of business we do in those markets is in gentle decline already, reflecting the EU's shrinking importance on the global stage.
https://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2015/08/25/full-statement-of-harvey-proctor/
One does wonder how the police could possibly have taken 'Nick' seriously.
Although the subject matter is far from funny, I did laugh out loud at the bit about the penknife:
I was asked if I could recognise images of the pen knife mentioned earlier. It was suggested it was Edward Heath who persuaded me not to castrate “Nick” with it. I was obviously so persuaded by Mr Heath’s intervention that I placed the pen knife in “Nick’s” pocket ready for him to present it to the Metropolitan police over 30 years later as “evidence”.
The haters would forecast doom whatever he came back with.
The right-wing elements are so emphatic about everything that I don't pay much attention. They aren't winning votes from Labour or the centre.
I laughed at the notion of Liam Fox. And do every time his name comes up. Covered himself in Werrity.
It's beyond absurd.
Yes, applauding Merkel last summer and abusing anyone who didn't agree we should take over 100,000 of the migrants right then and there was a bit at odds with public opinion
It's like an irksome aunt insisting on a tea cosy being used when she visits. That's if we leave the EU. If we stay in, we always have to use the tea cosy, whether she's there or not. And it costs us £7bn or so a year.
So, we can have no say over something that affects a percentage of our trade, or no say over something that we always have to apply to everything. And pay more for the latter.
1. If we were outside the EU and inside EFTA then the only rules that would apply to the UK would be those related to the single market. Vast swathes of the most contentious and damaging rules would no longer apply. This in itself for me is reason enough immediately to choose out.
2. As a member of EFTA/EEA we would have as much if not more influence on single market policy than we do now.
3. Currently we have very limited influence or rights at organisations such as the WTO where the EU speaks for us in a previously agreed unified position whether we like it or not. Thre are many supranational bodies setting global standards where this applies. Norway on the other hand has a vote and a veto since EFTA does not have a enforced single voice.
http://eureferendum.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/busting-norway-myth.html
Basically inside or outside the EU there are standards we have to abide by in world trade. But they apply to trade alone and not to the other vast swathes of policy where currently we are subservient to the EU.
Not to mention dressed as a canary didn't do her any favours visually.
However momentum is everything, case in point:
http://morningconsult.com/2016/02/donald-trump-bernie-sanders-national-polling/
Before N.H. and after Iowa
Hillary 50
Sanders 37
Trump 38
Cruz 17
Rubio 15
Carson 9
Bush 6
Kasich 2
After N.H.
Hillary 46 -4
Sanders 39 +2
Trump 44+6
Cruz 17 0
Carson 10 +1
Rubio 10 -5
Bush 8 +2
Kasich 4 +2
I think there's a bit difference between an abuser, and a serial murder ring though. The sheer coverup needed for a series of murders would be huge.
We had one good (indeed very good) game in the cup against Australia - but all of our pool games were varying shades of cringe inducing 40 minute only performances. We came within a whisker of losing to Samoa and going out of the World Cup in the group stages.
Guardian may get a dead cat bounce from the closure...
I'm having a terrible thought that Alistair Meeks and Nick Palmer are long-lost twins.
I think it is the eyes that have it.
http://www.nickpalmer.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/cropped-NickPalmer-masthead-4.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/666669076727652353/KEcDA3rl_400x400.jpg
One side exports c15+% of its exports to the other. The other side exports c40+% of its exports to the other*. Which needs to make exports to the other more badly?
*Exact percentages are really not all that relevant, by any measure the one side is proportionately far greater than the other.
Lost the IndyRef and headed south to the Westminster trough.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/02/seumas-milne-expected-guardian-endorse-jeremy-corbyn-and-felt-very-let-down
I just spat my coffee out reading that.
I read that as a straight transfer from Christie and Fiorina to Trump with Rubio's vote splintering between Bush and Kasich (plus a bit to Trump).
Cruz needs to do a deal with him.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-35553865
Perhaps the new owners might actually have a business brain i.e. perhaps some simple stuff like offer season passes. The current 10% discount if you are a regular user and prepay is a joke.
If ever there was Guardian TV, it's that show.
Who watches it? I haven't in years. My Ukip voting ex Labour Guardianista mate does as he wants to be converted back