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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s local by-election line-up has 3 LAB defences and

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  • Options
    Chris_A said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Danny565 said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    I will quit the Tory party if Liam Fox becomes leader.
    Would you vote Labour? ;)
    Nah. I would withdraw my canvassing and campaigning talents and do regular Fox is crap threads on PB
    Are you going to the Conference this year?
    Yeah. Filled in the application last week.
    Good stuff - my efforts to persuade like minded mates to come too have not succeeded so far. The GF gave me the 'do I look like an idiot' face when I suggested she might like to come.
    Well it is in Birmingham, can't blame them.
    Oh God do we have to put up with half the city centre being blocked off again. It's already a nightmare around the ICC.
    On the plus you get thousands of Tories. What's not to like ?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953
    Chris_A said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Danny565 said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    I will quit the Tory party if Liam Fox becomes leader.
    Would you vote Labour? ;)
    Nah. I would withdraw my canvassing and campaigning talents and do regular Fox is crap threads on PB
    Are you going to the Conference this year?
    Yeah. Filled in the application last week.
    Good stuff - my efforts to persuade like minded mates to come too have not succeeded so far. The GF gave me the 'do I look like an idiot' face when I suggested she might like to come.
    Well it is in Birmingham, can't blame them.
    Oh God do we have to put up with half the city centre being blocked off again. It's already a nightmare around the ICC.
    At least it is for the party of Govt.

    Could be worse, could be the national meeting of the Islington Train Set society.
  • Options
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    LFCBLOTO
    Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.
    It depends on EUref, if it is Remain I would agree Fox is unlikely to be the next leader, though if it is close he will be a contendor, if it is Leave he becomes the favourite
    No - he wont.

    I'd be surprised if he made it to 4th or 5th in the MPs contest.
    Fox was already a strong 3rd amongst MPs in 2005 with 51 Tory MPs backing him and almost pipped Davis for the run-off, the parliamentary party is now even more eurosceptic
    WikiBot HYUFD strikes again.

    That is the past.

    Fox is not popular amongst the parliamentary Party.
    Plus as leader Fox negates any Tory attacks against Corbyn on national security grounds.
  • Options
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Danny565 said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    I will quit the Tory party if Liam Fox becomes leader.
    Would you vote Labour? ;)
    Nah. I would withdraw my canvassing and campaigning talents and do regular Fox is crap threads on PB
    Are you going to the Conference this year?
    Yeah. Filled in the application last week.
    Good stuff - my efforts to persuade like minded mates to come too have not succeeded so far. The GF gave me the 'do I look like an idiot' face when I suggested she might like to come.
    I will see you both there - will be good to meet you, Mortimer. Hopefully a PB meet can be arranged as well.
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    isam said:

    'A SENIOR government minister has claimed Downing Street is descending into panic over David Cameron’s failing EU renegotiation, a Eurosceptic MP claimed last night.

    The revelation came as top Tories shared a stage with Nigel Farage for the first time during the “Brexit” campaign — turning their joint fire on David Cameron.

    Senior Eurosceptic Tory backbencher Steve Baker told the crowd: “A Eurosceptic member of the government and I had a drink last night and he told me very plainly that it was his clear understanding that the government expected having come back with this deal, that they would show it to the public, get a round of applause and be a 20-30 points ahead for remain.”


    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6923921/Downing-Street-panic-after-top-Tories-share-stage-with-Nigel-Farage.html

    Well Cameron does surround himself with EU fanatics,delusional.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,112
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    LFCBLOTO
    Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.
    It depends on EUref, if it is Remain I would agree Fox is unlikely to be the next leader, though if it is close he will be a contendor, if it is Leave he becomes the favourite
    No - he wont.

    I'd be surprised if he made it to 4th or 5th in the MPs contest.
    Fox was already a strong 3rd amongst MPs in 2005 with 51 Tory MPs backing him and almost pipped Davis for the run-off, the parliamentary party is now even more eurosceptic
    WikiBot HYUFD strikes again.

    That is the past.

    Fox is not popular amongst the parliamentary Party.
    Evidence? He is probably popular enough to get into the final 2, especially if there is a strong Leave vote and he is popular with the membership
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,112
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT said:

    A very good analysis of Hillary's political positioning dilemma:

    https://www.yahoo.com/politics/there-is-only-one-way-1362390891388982.html

    These passages particularly struck me as hitting home:

    "Clinton’s campaign feels like it’s all about her — her résumé, her mettle, her 25 years of suffering through the indignities of public service. “I’m with her” is the slogan for a campaign that seems to signify nothing beyond the joyless accretion of personal loyalties."

    "This was the shock wave of 2008 finally rising to the surface of our fractured politics. What Sanders and Donald Trump embody, each in his own strident way, is the disgust that’s been building for the eight years since Lehman Brothers collapsed and took the markets with it — eight years in which the wealthy and their wholly owned political parties recovered fabulously while everyone else stagnated."

    "But if ... Clinton tries to ... make the case for a more pragmatic approach [based on who is best placed to operate in the system so reviled by the electorate - my addition], she’s seen as an ideological apostate, unwilling to take on the system. And so her choice is to be either a less genuine candidate than Sanders or a less progressive one — or some days both."

    "Clinton has run a campaign that’s all about her bona fides, and nobody’s swooning. If she’s still defending her Wall Street speeches and whining about the vast right-wing conspiracy a few weeks from now, the nomination could very well slip away from her, again."

    Hillary notably stepped up her rhetoric about reigning in Wall Street in her NH concession speech
    Post 2008, the average Western voter detests big business, but loathes left wing identity politics, and is hostile to mass immigration. That up-ends traditional politics.
    Hence the rise of Corbyn and UKIP, Sanders and Trump
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Danny565 said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    I will quit the Tory party if Liam Fox becomes leader.
    Would you vote Labour? ;)
    Nah. I would withdraw my canvassing and campaigning talents and do regular Fox is crap threads on PB
    Are you going to the Conference this year?
    Yeah. Filled in the application last week.
    Good stuff - my efforts to persuade like minded mates to come too have not succeeded so far. The GF gave me the 'do I look like an idiot' face when I suggested she might like to come.
    I will see you both there - will be good to meet you, Mortimer. Hopefully a PB meet can be arranged as well.
    Et toi aussi, monsieur!

    A PB meet would be great! I've never managed to make it to one yet.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Oh God.

    Farage is talking about British Jobs for British Workers on the front page of tomorrow's Express

    Has he morphed into Gordon?
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    LFCBLOTO
    Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.
    It depends on EUref, if it is Remain I would agree Fox is unlikely to be the next leader, though if it is close he will be a contendor, if it is Leave he becomes the favourite
    No - he wont.

    I'd be surprised if he made it to 4th or 5th in the MPs contest.
    Fox was already a strong 3rd amongst MPs in 2005 with 51 Tory MPs backing him and almost pipped Davis for the run-off, the parliamentary party is now even more eurosceptic
    WikiBot HYUFD strikes again.

    That is the past.

    Fox is not popular amongst the parliamentary Party.
    Plus as leader Fox negates any Tory attacks against Corbyn on national security grounds.
    Fox could be the Trump of the conservatives,the westminster bubble v the real world out there.
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    isam said:

    'A SENIOR government minister has claimed Downing Street is descending into panic over David Cameron’s failing EU renegotiation, a Eurosceptic MP claimed last night.

    The revelation came as top Tories shared a stage with Nigel Farage for the first time during the “Brexit” campaign — turning their joint fire on David Cameron.

    Senior Eurosceptic Tory backbencher Steve Baker told the crowd: “A Eurosceptic member of the government and I had a drink last night and he told me very plainly that it was his clear understanding that the government expected having come back with this deal, that they would show it to the public, get a round of applause and be a 20-30 points ahead for remain.”


    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6923921/Downing-Street-panic-after-top-Tories-share-stage-with-Nigel-Farage.html

    When you surround yourself with an out of touch metropolitan elite such reactions should not be surprising.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    LFCBLOTO
    Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.
    It depends on EUref, if it is Remain I would agree Fox is unlikely to be the next leader, though if it is close he will be a contendor, if it is Leave he becomes the favourite
    No - he wont.

    I'd be surprised if he made it to 4th or 5th in the MPs contest.
    Fox was already a strong 3rd amongst MPs in 2005 with 51 Tory MPs backing him and almost pipped Davis for the run-off, the parliamentary party is now even more eurosceptic
    WikiBot HYUFD strikes again.

    That is the past.

    Fox is not popular amongst the parliamentary Party.
    Evidence? He is probably popular enough to get into the final 2, especially if there is a strong Leave vote and he is popular with the membership
    Loose canon, managed to get sacked very soon after the coalition took office.

    Plus, most of the Parly party only know him as a leadership contest loser. In the Tory party today, that sticks.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    LFCBLOTO
    Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.
    It depends on EUref, if it is Remain I would agree Fox is unlikely to be the next leader, though if it is close he will be a contendor, if it is Leave he becomes the favourite
    No - he wont.

    I'd be surprised if he made it to 4th or 5th in the MPs contest.
    Fox was already a strong 3rd amongst MPs in 2005 with 51 Tory MPs backing him and almost pipped Davis for the run-off, the parliamentary party is now even more eurosceptic
    WikiBot HYUFD strikes again.

    That is the past.

    Fox is not popular amongst the parliamentary Party.
    Plus as leader Fox negates any Tory attacks against Corbyn on national security grounds.
    Fox could be the Trump of the conservatives,the westminster bubble v the real world out there.
    Doesn't have the charisma, media savvy or money.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT said:

    A very good analysis of Hillary's political positioning dilemma:

    https://www.yahoo.com/politics/there-is-only-one-way-1362390891388982.html

    These passages particularly struck me as hitting home:

    "Clinton’s campaign feels like it’s all about her — her résumé, her mettle, her 25 years of suffering through the indignities of public service. “I’m with her” is the slogan for a campaign that seems to signify nothing beyond the joyless accretion of personal loyalties."

    "This was the shock wave of 2008 finally rising to the surface of our fractured politics. What Sanders and Donald Trump embody, each in his own strident way, is the disgust that’s been building for the eight years since Lehman Brothers collapsed and took the markets with it — eight years in which the wealthy and their wholly owned political parties recovered fabulously while everyone else stagnated."

    "But if ... Clinton tries to ... make the case for a more pragmatic approach [based on who is best placed to operate in the system so reviled by the electorate - my addition], she’s seen as an ideological apostate, unwilling to take on the system. And so her choice is to be either a less genuine candidate than Sanders or a less progressive one — or some days both."

    "Clinton has run a campaign that’s all about her bona fides, and nobody’s swooning. If she’s still defending her Wall Street speeches and whining about the vast right-wing conspiracy a few weeks from now, the nomination could very well slip away from her, again."

    Hillary notably stepped up her rhetoric about reigning in Wall Street in her NH concession speech
    Post 2008, the average Western voter detests big business, but loathes left wing identity politics, and is hostile to mass immigration. That up-ends traditional politics.
    Add a hatred of political correctness in the US by the growing majority which is the non-PC class that allows Trump's statements on Mexicans and Muslims to actually increase his levels of support.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,112
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    LFCBLOTO
    Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.
    It depends on EUref, if it is Remain I would agree Fox is unlikely to be the next leader, though if it is close he will be a contendor, if it is Leave he becomes the favourite
    No - he wont.

    I'd be surprised if he made it to 4th or 5th in the MPs contest.
    Fox was already a strong 3rd amongst MPs in 2005 with 51 Tory MPs backing him and almost pipped Davis for the run-off, the parliamentary party is now even more eurosceptic
    WikiBot HYUFD strikes again.

    That is the past.

    Fox is not popular amongst the parliamentary Party.
    Evidence? He is probably popular enough to get into the final 2, especially if there is a strong Leave vote and he is popular with the membership
    Loose canon, managed to get sacked very soon after the coalition took office.

    Plus, most of the Parly party only know him as a leadership contest loser. In the Tory party today, that sticks.
    He very nearly knocked out Davis in the final round and he never went to the membership but would have likely given Cameron a closer race according to polls at the time
  • Options
    Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Chris_A said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Danny565 said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    I will quit the Tory party if Liam Fox becomes leader.
    Would you vote Labour? ;)
    Nah. I would withdraw my canvassing and campaigning talents and do regular Fox is crap threads on PB
    Are you going to the Conference this year?
    Yeah. Filled in the application last week.
    Good stuff - my efforts to persuade like minded mates to come too have not succeeded so far. The GF gave me the 'do I look like an idiot' face when I suggested she might like to come.
    Well it is in Birmingham, can't blame them.
    Oh God do we have to put up with half the city centre being blocked off again. It's already a nightmare around the ICC.
    On the plus you get thousands of Tories. What's not to like ?
    Well the meeting in the Prince of Wales the last time was pleasant. Real ale too if you like that sort of thing.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    It beggars belief that Jeremy Hunt chooses the day after imposing a hated contract to investigate why junior doctors have poor morale:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12152861/Jeremy-Hunt-mocked-for-irony-of-announcing-review-of-junior-doctors-morale-as-new-contract-is-forced-through.html

    It should not take long! What a #tubularbellend !
  • Options

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    LFCBLOTO
    Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.
    It depends on EUref, if it is Remain I would agree Fox is unlikely to be the next leader, though if it is close he will be a contendor, if it is Leave he becomes the favourite
    No - he wont.

    I'd be surprised if he made it to 4th or 5th in the MPs contest.
    Fox was already a strong 3rd amongst MPs in 2005 with 51 Tory MPs backing him and almost pipped Davis for the run-off, the parliamentary party is now even more eurosceptic
    WikiBot HYUFD strikes again.

    That is the past.

    Fox is not popular amongst the parliamentary Party.
    Plus as leader Fox negates any Tory attacks against Corbyn on national security grounds.
    Fox could be the Trump of the conservatives,the westminster bubble v the real world out there.
    Nah. Fox for starters isn't an Islamophobe like Trump.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    MP_SE said:

    isam said:

    'A SENIOR government minister has claimed Downing Street is descending into panic over David Cameron’s failing EU renegotiation, a Eurosceptic MP claimed last night.

    The revelation came as top Tories shared a stage with Nigel Farage for the first time during the “Brexit” campaign — turning their joint fire on David Cameron.

    Senior Eurosceptic Tory backbencher Steve Baker told the crowd: “A Eurosceptic member of the government and I had a drink last night and he told me very plainly that it was his clear understanding that the government expected having come back with this deal, that they would show it to the public, get a round of applause and be a 20-30 points ahead for remain.”


    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6923921/Downing-Street-panic-after-top-Tories-share-stage-with-Nigel-Farage.html

    When you surround yourself with an out of touch metropolitan elite such reactions should not be surprising.
    Bullshit/smear alert.. You should take lessons from the BMA
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    LFCBLOTO
    Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.
    It depends on EUref, if it is Remain I would agree Fox is unlikely to be the next leader, though if it is close he will be a contendor, if it is Leave he becomes the favourite
    No - he wont.

    I'd be surprised if he made it to 4th or 5th in the MPs contest.
    Fox was already a strong 3rd amongst MPs in 2005 with 51 Tory MPs backing him and almost pipped Davis for the run-off, the parliamentary party is now even more eurosceptic
    WikiBot HYUFD strikes again.

    That is the past.

    Fox is not popular amongst the parliamentary Party.
    Evidence? He is probably popular enough to get into the final 2, especially if there is a strong Leave vote and he is popular with the membership
    Loose canon, managed to get sacked very soon after the coalition took office.

    Plus, most of the Parly party only know him as a leadership contest loser. In the Tory party today, that sticks.
    He very nearly knocked out Davis in the final round and he never went to the membership but would have likely given Cameron a closer race according to polls at the time
    That was 2005.

    And he didn't knock Davis out.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,896
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT said:

    A very good analysis of Hillary's political positioning dilemma:

    https://www.yahoo.com/politics/there-is-only-one-way-1362390891388982.html

    These passages particularly struck me as hitting home:

    "Clinton’s campaign feels like it’s all about her — her résumé, her mettle, her 25 years of suffering through the indignities of public service. “I’m with her” is the slogan for a campaign that seems to signify nothing beyond the joyless accretion of personal loyalties."

    "This was the shock wave of 2008 finally rising to the surface of our fractured politics. What Sanders and Donald Trump embody, each in his own strident way, is the disgust that’s been building for the eight years since Lehman Brothers collapsed and took the markets with it — eight years in which the wealthy and their wholly owned political parties recovered fabulously while everyone else stagnated."

    "But if ... Clinton tries to ... make the case for a more pragmatic approach [based on who is best placed to operate in the system so reviled by the electorate - my addition], she’s seen as an ideological apostate, unwilling to take on the system. And so her choice is to be either a less genuine candidate than Sanders or a less progressive one — or some days both."

    "Clinton has run a campaign that’s all about her bona fides, and nobody’s swooning. If she’s still defending her Wall Street speeches and whining about the vast right-wing conspiracy a few weeks from now, the nomination could very well slip away from her, again."

    Hillary notably stepped up her rhetoric about reigning in Wall Street in her NH concession speech
    Post 2008, the average Western voter detests big business, but loathes left wing identity politics, and is hostile to mass immigration. That up-ends traditional politics.
    Hence the rise of Corbyn and UKIP, Sanders and Trump
    It's a small thing, but I think that the degree of public hostility towards Rhodes Must Fall, or the various Safe Spaces campaigns would not have been so intense 10 years ago, in an era of easy prosperity. These days, people have less patience with whiny students.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,112
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    LFCBLOTO
    Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.
    It depends on EUref, if it is Remain I would agree Fox is unlikely to be the next leader, though if it is close he will be a contendor, if it is Leave he becomes the favourite
    No - he wont.

    I'd be surprised if he made it to 4th or 5th in the MPs contest.
    Fox was already a strong 3rd amongst MPs in 2005 with 51 Tory MPs backing him and almost pipped Davis for the run-off, the parliamentary party is now even more eurosceptic
    WikiBot HYUFD strikes again.

    That is the past.

    Fox is not popular amongst the parliamentary Party.
    Evidence? He is probably popular enough to get into the final 2, especially if there is a strong Leave vote and he is popular with the membership
    Loose canon, managed to get sacked very soon after the coalition took office.

    Plus, most of the Parly party only know him as a leadership contest loser. In the Tory party today, that sticks.
    He very nearly knocked out Davis in the final round and he never went to the membership but would have likely given Cameron a closer race according to polls at the time
    That was 2005.

    And he didn't knock Davis out.
    He was just 6 votes away
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    It beggars belief that Jeremy Hunt chooses the day after imposing a hated contract to investigate why junior doctors have poor morale:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12152861/Jeremy-Hunt-mocked-for-irony-of-announcing-review-of-junior-doctors-morale-as-new-contract-is-forced-through.html

    It should not take long! What a #tubularbellend !

    The savvier docs are depressed with the realisation that their union leaders are playing games with their livelihoods.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Farage is on Question Time.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    LFCBLOTO
    Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.
    It depends on EUref, if it is Remain I would agree Fox is unlikely to be the next leader, though if it is close he will be a contendor, if it is Leave he becomes the favourite
    No - he wont.

    I'd be surprised if he made it to 4th or 5th in the MPs contest.
    Fox was already a strong 3rd amongst MPs in 2005 with 51 Tory MPs backing him and almost pipped Davis for the run-off, the parliamentary party is now even more eurosceptic
    WikiBot HYUFD strikes again.

    That is the past.

    Fox is not popular amongst the parliamentary Party.
    Evidence? He is probably popular enough to get into the final 2, especially if there is a strong Leave vote and he is popular with the membership
    Loose canon, managed to get sacked very soon after the coalition took office.

    Plus, most of the Parly party only know him as a leadership contest loser. In the Tory party today, that sticks.
    He very nearly knocked out Davis in the final round and he never went to the membership but would have likely given Cameron a closer race according to polls at the time
    That was 2005.

    And he didn't knock Davis out.
    He was just 6 votes away
    Losing to Davies is pretty shockingly poor.

    You don't seem to have an understanding of the dynamics of political parties. Are you a member of any?
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Stephen Crabb is unusually good looking for a politician.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,112
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT said:

    A very good analysis of Hillary's political positioning dilemma:

    https://www.yahoo.com/politics/there-is-only-one-way-1362390891388982.html

    These passages particularly struck me as hitting home:

    "Clinton’s campaign feels like it’s all about her — her résumé, her mettle, her 25 years of suffering through the indignities of public service. “I’m with her” is the slogan for a campaign that seems to signify nothing beyond the joyless accretion of personal loyalties."

    "This was the shock wave of 2008 finally rising to the surface of our fractured politics. What Sanders and Donald Trump embody, each in his own strident way, is the disgust that’s been building for the eight years since Lehman Brothers collapsed and took the markets with it — eight years in which the wealthy and their wholly owned political parties recovered fabulously while everyone else stagnated."

    "But if ... Clinton tries to ... make the case for a more pragmatic approach [based on who is best placed to operate in the system so reviled by the electorate - my addition], she’s seen as an ideological apostate, unwilling to take on the system. And so her choice is to be either a less genuine candidate than Sanders or a less progressive one — or some days both."

    "Clinton has run a campaign that’s all about her bona fides, and nobody’s swooning. If she’s still defending her Wall Street speeches and whining about the vast right-wing conspiracy a few weeks from now, the nomination could very well slip away from her, again."

    Hillary notably stepped up her rhetoric about reigning in Wall Street in her NH concession speech
    Post 2008, the average Western voter detests big business, but loathes left wing identity politics, and is hostile to mass immigration. That up-ends traditional politics.
    Hence the rise of Corbyn and UKIP, Sanders and Trump
    It's a small thing, but I think that the degree of public hostility towards Rhodes Must Fall, or the various Safe Spaces campaigns would not have been so intense 10 years ago, in an era of easy prosperity. These days, people have less patience with whiny students.
    Voters are fed up with immigration and Islamic terrorism and also fed up with the City/Wall Street, it is why populist parties and candidates of left and right are doing so well across the western world.
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    David Cameron warned he risks destroying Tory party if he ignores grassroots ahead of EU referendum

    In a letter to the Prime Minister, more than 130 councillors warn the Prime Minister that he risks “the long term future of the Conservative party” if he ignores activists ahead of the EU vote


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12152973/david-cameron-tory-party-warning-eu-referendum.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    watford30 said:

    It beggars belief that Jeremy Hunt chooses the day after imposing a hated contract to investigate why junior doctors have poor morale:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12152861/Jeremy-Hunt-mocked-for-irony-of-announcing-review-of-junior-doctors-morale-as-new-contract-is-forced-through.html

    It should not take long! What a #tubularbellend !

    The savvier docs are depressed with the realisation that their union leaders are playing games with their livelihoods.
    The only ones that I meet pissed off with the BMA, are pissed off because they have not been militant enough!
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @bbclaurak: 1st intervention for a while .. Ed Balls warns on Brexit but calls for limits on freedom of movement ... https://t.co/rsTz4g11C3
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953
    Carwyn Jones likes to refute without evidence doesn't he.

    Does he get away with it in Wales?
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,299
    edited February 2016
    Well if Con chooses Fox as leader they will be doing their absolute best to lose the GE.

    Of course it's possible they will do that - but a lot MPs will be wary of Fox getting into the final 2 as they'll know he could win with the members.

    Remember, some Cameron supporters voted Davis last time to knock out Fox.

    I would be surprised if they let him into the final 2.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,112
    56% of Democrats would vote for Obama if he could run again, just 20% for Clinton and 17% for Sanders. However only 16% of Republicans would vote for Romney, the same as Rubio, while Trump would get 26% and Cruz 21%
    http://capx.co/obama-beats-hillary-in-a-walk-if-he-could-run-again/
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,112
    Danny565 said:

    Stephen Crabb is unusually good looking for a politician.

    Had dinner with him once at the Commons along with others, from a council house background and son of a single mother he is very personable in person, a good long-shot bet for next Tory leader
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,112
    MikeL said:

    Well if Con chooses Fox as leader they will be doing their absolute best to lose the GE.

    Of course it's possible they will do that - but a lot MPs will be wary of Fox getting into the final 2 as they'll know he could win with the members.

    Remember, some Cameron supporters voted Davis last time to knock out Fox.

    I would be surprised if they let him into the final 2.

    Fox v Corbyn would be an interesting election!
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    I haven't been following the strike that closely, and I don't necessarily have all that much sympathy for the doctors (especially if their main complaint is about pay), but I don't understand this stuff about a "7-day NHS".

    I don't see why we NEED to have non-urgent procedures available everyday. I would rather extra money was put into just getting the higher-quality medical care, even if it's only available on various days of the week, rather than spreading what we've already got more thinly just so people can have a bit more convenience in when they get that lower-quality care.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:
    18 Europhiles in the top 20 and13 out of the top 13.

    Remainian invasion...
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953
    Was at college with Billy. Another BNC historian!
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,972
    edited February 2016
    Farage was right to call out Carwyn on the strength of the pound there. It gets trotted out far too much as a bullshit argument even when it has fallen. He may have had a point at 1.4 to the € but it gets my goat up that it was used then when it has fallen to 1.3, and the $ is v strong vs the £ anyway.

    It is NOT an argument right now, quite the opposite.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    LFCBLOTO
    Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.
    It depends on EUref, if it is Remain I would agree Fox is unlikely to be the next leader, though if it is close he will be a contendor, if it is Leave he becomes the favourite
    No - he wont.

    I'd be surprised if he made it to 4th or 5th in the MPs contest.
    Fox was already a strong 3rd amongst MPs in 2005 with 51 Tory MPs backing him and almost pipped Davis for the run-off, the parliamentary party is now even more eurosceptic
    WikiBot HYUFD strikes again.

    That is the past.

    Fox is not popular amongst the parliamentary Party.
    Evidence? He is probably popular enough to get into the final 2, especially if there is a strong Leave vote and he is popular with the membership
    Loose canon, managed to get sacked very soon after the coalition took office.

    Plus, most of the Parly party only know him as a leadership contest loser. In the Tory party today, that sticks.
    He very nearly knocked out Davis in the final round and he never went to the membership but would have likely given Cameron a closer race according to polls at the time
    That was 2005.

    And he didn't knock Davis out.
    He was just 6 votes away
    Losing to Davies is pretty shockingly poor.

    You don't seem to have an understanding of the dynamics of political parties. Are you a member of any?
    LOL Another PBer having a frustrating conversation with HYUFD ...
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited February 2016
    And in the blue corner -

    Daniel Hannan ‏@DanHannanMEP
    Even @GoldmanSachs, the megabank funding the In campaign, admits that Britain hasn't changed anything substantive.

  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953
    MTimT said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    LFCBLOTO
    Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.
    It depends on EUref, if it is Remain I would agree Fox is unlikely to be the next leader, though if it is close he will be a contendor, if it is Leave he becomes the favourite
    No - he wont.

    I'd be surprised if he made it to 4th or 5th in the MPs contest.
    Fox was already a strong 3rd amongst MPs in 2005 with 51 Tory MPs backing him and almost pipped Davis for the run-off, the parliamentary party is now even more eurosceptic
    WikiBot HYUFD strikes again.

    That is the past.

    Fox is not popular amongst the parliamentary Party.
    Evidence? He is probably popular enough to get into the final 2, especially if there is a strong Leave vote and he is popular with the membership
    Loose canon, managed to get sacked very soon after the coalition took office.

    Plus, most of the Parly party only know him as a leadership contest loser. In the Tory party today, that sticks.
    He very nearly knocked out Davis in the final round and he never went to the membership but would have likely given Cameron a closer race according to polls at the time
    That was 2005.

    And he didn't knock Davis out.
    He was just 6 votes away
    Losing to Davies is pretty shockingly poor.

    You don't seem to have an understanding of the dynamics of political parties. Are you a member of any?
    LOL Another PBer having a frustrating conversation with HYUFD ...
    I feel like another discussion about Labour leadership rules might be in the offing....
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,112
    Farage sounding as anti China as Trump on QT!
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,896
    I imagine the result in H & M took UKIP completely by surprise.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Carwyn Jones reminds me a bit of Ed Balls. Rare Labour figure with a bit of spunk about him.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT said:

    A very good analysis of Hillary's political positioning dilemma:

    https://www.yahoo.com/politics/there-is-only-one-way-1362390891388982.html

    These passages particularly struck me as hitting home:

    "Clinton’s campaign feels like it’s all about her — her résumé, her mettle, her 25 years of suffering through the indignities of public service. “I’m with her” is the slogan for a campaign that seems to signify nothing beyond the joyless accretion of personal loyalties."

    "This was the shock wave of 2008 finally rising to the surface of our fractured politics. What Sanders and Donald Trump embody, each in his own strident way, is the disgust that’s been building for the eight years since Lehman Brothers collapsed and took the markets with it — eight years in which the wealthy and their wholly owned political parties recovered fabulously while everyone else stagnated."

    "But if ... Clinton tries to ... make the case for a more pragmatic approach [based on who is best placed to operate in the system so reviled by the electorate - my addition], she’s seen as an ideological apostate, unwilling to take on the system. And so her choice is to be either a less genuine candidate than Sanders or a less progressive one — or some days both."

    "Clinton has run a campaign that’s all about her bona fides, and nobody’s swooning. If she’s still defending her Wall Street speeches and whining about the vast right-wing conspiracy a few weeks from now, the nomination could very well slip away from her, again."

    Hillary notably stepped up her rhetoric about reigning in Wall Street in her NH concession speech
    Post 2008, the average Western voter detests big business, but loathes left wing identity politics, and is hostile to mass immigration. That up-ends traditional politics.
    Hence the rise of Corbyn and UKIP, Sanders and Trump
    It's a small thing, but I think that the degree of public hostility towards Rhodes Must Fall, or the various Safe Spaces campaigns would not have been so intense 10 years ago, in an era of easy prosperity. These days, people have less patience with whiny students.
    Voters are fed up with immigration and Islamic terrorism and also fed up with the City/Wall Street, it is why populist parties and candidates of left and right are doing so well across the western world.
    They don't win though.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953
    Pulpstar said:

    Farage was right to call out Carwyn on the strength of the pound there. It gets trotted out far too much as a bullshit argument even when it has fallen. He may have had a point at 1.4 to the € but it gets my goat up that it was used then when it has fallen to 1.3, and the $ is v strong vs the £ anyway.

    It is NOT an argument right now, quite the opposite.

    Carwyn Jones comes across worse and worse each time I see him - how does he still hold office?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953
    Danny565 said:

    Carwyn Jones reminds me a bit of Ed Balls. Rare Labour figure with a bit of spunk about him.

    .......'Have you spoken to Tata' is poor. It suggests that he doesn't understand the fundamental issues and just likes talking to people....
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013
    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Farage was right to call out Carwyn on the strength of the pound there. It gets trotted out far too much as a bullshit argument even when it has fallen. He may have had a point at 1.4 to the € but it gets my goat up that it was used then when it has fallen to 1.3, and the $ is v strong vs the £ anyway.

    It is NOT an argument right now, quite the opposite.

    Carwyn Jones comes across worse and worse each time I see him - how does he still hold office?
    He's not elected by the PB demographic?
  • Options
    Danny565 said:

    Carwyn Jones reminds me a bit of Ed Balls. Rare Labour figure with a bit of spunk about him.

    Shame his brains are in the same place.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953
    edited February 2016
    EPG said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Farage was right to call out Carwyn on the strength of the pound there. It gets trotted out far too much as a bullshit argument even when it has fallen. He may have had a point at 1.4 to the € but it gets my goat up that it was used then when it has fallen to 1.3, and the $ is v strong vs the £ anyway.

    It is NOT an argument right now, quite the opposite.

    Carwyn Jones comes across worse and worse each time I see him - how does he still hold office?
    He's not elected by the PB demographic?
    Fixed it for ya.

    He's not elected by the PB a sensible demographic?
  • Options
    Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    edited February 2016
    So Hunt is even now stooping to lying about which Chief Executives supported his imposition of the contract. I think Fox's tubularbellend was being way too polite

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/02/11/jeremy-hunts-junior-docto_n_9211662.html
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,972
    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Farage was right to call out Carwyn on the strength of the pound there. It gets trotted out far too much as a bullshit argument even when it has fallen. He may have had a point at 1.4 to the € but it gets my goat up that it was used then when it has fallen to 1.3, and the $ is v strong vs the £ anyway.

    It is NOT an argument right now, quite the opposite.

    Carwyn Jones comes across worse and worse each time I see him - how does he still hold office?
    Heh, not sure - its just annoying because a few people poo pooed me when I said it was a real issue for exporters/manufacturers when it shot from 1.2 to 1.4 against the € in a shortish space of time. I know because I do the accounts for an exporter with income, and the need to be competitive in Euros.

    The drop to 1.3 is welcome relief, and its a lazy argument of the type suppliers use blaming "inflation, strength of pound, yada yada yada" of stuff that has happened and hasn't happened in the standard letter sent out to raise prices.
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    watford30 said:

    It beggars belief that Jeremy Hunt chooses the day after imposing a hated contract to investigate why junior doctors have poor morale:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12152861/Jeremy-Hunt-mocked-for-irony-of-announcing-review-of-junior-doctors-morale-as-new-contract-is-forced-through.html

    It should not take long! What a #tubularbellend !

    The savvier docs are depressed with the realisation that their union leaders are playing games with their livelihoods.
    The only ones that I meet pissed off with the BMA, are pissed off because they have not been militant enough!
    Is the BMA going to pay their mortgages when they take longer term action?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,972
    Farage advocating leaving the EEA as well as EU.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953
    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Farage was right to call out Carwyn on the strength of the pound there. It gets trotted out far too much as a bullshit argument even when it has fallen. He may have had a point at 1.4 to the € but it gets my goat up that it was used then when it has fallen to 1.3, and the $ is v strong vs the £ anyway.

    It is NOT an argument right now, quite the opposite.

    Carwyn Jones comes across worse and worse each time I see him - how does he still hold office?
    Heh, not sure - its just annoying because a few people poo pooed me when I said it was a real issue for exporters/manufacturers when it shot from 1.2 to 1.4 against the € in a shortish space of time. I know because I do the accounts for an exporter with income, and the need to be competitive in Euros.

    The drop to 1.3 is welcome relief, and its a lazy argument of the type suppliers use blaming "inflation, strength of pound, yada yada yada" of stuff that has happened and hasn't happened in the standard letter sent out to raise prices.
    Agreed.

    It is a lazy Labour attack from 6 months ago.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Is it just me, or are the QT panelists all trying to talk straight to the camera today...
  • Options
    There are only two vaguely plausible leaders of the Conservative Party whom I absolutely could not support under any circumstances: DD and Liam Fox.

    It's not their politics - I'd be happy with Owen Paterson, for example - it's their flakiness.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953
    Danny565 said:

    Is it just me, or are the QT panelists all trying to talk straight to the camera today...

    Not just you!

    Crabb is very good at it.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013
    Mortimer said:

    EPG said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Farage was right to call out Carwyn on the strength of the pound there. It gets trotted out far too much as a bullshit argument even when it has fallen. He may have had a point at 1.4 to the € but it gets my goat up that it was used then when it has fallen to 1.3, and the $ is v strong vs the £ anyway.

    It is NOT an argument right now, quite the opposite.

    Carwyn Jones comes across worse and worse each time I see him - how does he still hold office?
    He's not elected by the PB demographic?
    Fixed it for ya.

    He's not elected by the PB a sensible demographic?
    I'm being serious
    He still holds office because not everyone in the world is a Conservative.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953
    EPG said:

    Mortimer said:

    EPG said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Farage was right to call out Carwyn on the strength of the pound there. It gets trotted out far too much as a bullshit argument even when it has fallen. He may have had a point at 1.4 to the € but it gets my goat up that it was used then when it has fallen to 1.3, and the $ is v strong vs the £ anyway.

    It is NOT an argument right now, quite the opposite.

    Carwyn Jones comes across worse and worse each time I see him - how does he still hold office?
    He's not elected by the PB demographic?
    Fixed it for ya.

    He's not elected by the PB a sensible demographic?
    I'm being serious
    He still holds office because not everyone in the world is a Conservative.
    For shame.....
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,052
    I think the strength of the pound is a justifiable point. The abysmal trade figures suggest a correction downwards should happen. However we still seem to be importing a lot of foreign capital and remain a safe haven of some sort. The last few months has been a downward trend though.
  • Options
    Farage just slaughtered Crabb, shows how much the immigration debate has turned
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    The Levellers and the Diggers were the original Eurosceptics
    Giles Fraser

    Democracy requires an intimate link between people and power. The EU has severed that link and turned itself into a club for big business

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2016/feb/11/the-levellers-and-the-diggers-were-the-original-eurosceptics
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013
    If PB comments congress had a PR election the Conservatives would have a veto-proof majority
    Wales isn't like that and many people don't have cash left over for betting on politics (that's still a thing here right?)
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Farage advocating leaving the EEA as well as EU.

    Really?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,112
    MTimT said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    LFCBLOTO
    Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.
    It depends on EUref, if it is Remain I would agree Fox is unlikely to be the next leader, though if it is close he will be a contendor, if it is Leave he becomes the favourite
    No - he wont.

    I'd be surprised if he made it to 4th or 5th in the MPs contest.
    Fox was already a strong 3rd amongst MPs in 2005 with 51 Tory MPs backing him and almost pipped Davis for the run-off, the parliamentary party is now even more eurosceptic
    WikiBot HYUFD strikes again.

    That is the past.

    Fox is not popular amongst the parliamentary Party.
    Evidence? He is probably popular enough to get into the final 2, especially if there is a strong Leave vote and he is popular with the membership
    Loose canon, managed to get sacked very soon after the coalition took office.

    Plus, most of the Parly party only know him as a leadership contest loser. In the Tory party today, that sticks.
    He very nearly knocked out Davis in the final round and he never went to the membership but would have likely given Cameron a closer race according to polls at the time
    That was 2005.

    And he didn't knock Davis out.
    He was just 6 votes away
    Losing to Davies is pretty shockingly poor.

    You don't seem to have an understanding of the dynamics of political parties. Are you a member of any?
    LOL Another PBer having a frustrating conversation with HYUFD ...
    Nothing frustrating about it, just pointing out the facts!
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Pulpstar said:

    Farage advocating leaving the EEA as well as EU.

    Personally, if EEA is what Brexit would mean, then I would swing more firmly to Remain.

    The main problems with the EU imo are uncontrolled immigration and unrestricted "free trade" which screws over British jobs; the EEA would presumably mean both would remain the same.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,972

    Pulpstar said:

    Farage advocating leaving the EEA as well as EU.

    Really?
    I'd assume so from the immigration comments.
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    It's the growing excitement as we move into the coming UKIP vindication in the referendum.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953
    edited February 2016
    EPG said:

    If PB comments congress had a PR election the Conservatives would have a veto-proof majority
    Wales isn't like that and many people don't have cash left over for betting on politics (that's still a thing here right?)

    Indeed. My mother is Welsh. Wales is much, much poorer. I do when when the people of Wales will realise that Labour have done nothing to change this for several generations.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Pulpstar said:

    Farage advocating leaving the EEA as well as EU.

    Really?
    He was banging on about controlling borders and tariffs. That means not being in the EEA.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953
    Carwyn Jones seems to have forgotten that Ireland is also an Island.

    Beyond parody.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,112
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    LFCBLOTO
    Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.
    It depends on EUref, if it is Remain I would agree Fox is unlikely to be the next leader, though if it is close he will be a contendor, if it is Leave he becomes the favourite
    No - he wont.

    I'd be surprised if he made it to 4th or 5th in the MPs contest.
    Fox was alr
    WikiBot HYUFD strikes again.

    That is the past.

    Fox is not popular amongst the parliamentary Party.
    Evidence? He is probably popular enough to get into the final 2, especially if there is a strong Leave vote and he is popular with the membership
    Loose canon, managed to get sacked very soon after the coalition took office.

    Plus, most of the Parly party only know him as a leadership contest loser. In the Tory party today, that sticks.
    /
    That was 2005.

    And he didn't knock Davis out.
    He was just 6 votes away
    Losing to Davies is pretty shockingly poor.

    You don't seem to have an understanding of the dynamics of political parties. Are you a member of any?
    It was hardly shockingly poor to beat Ken Clarke, a former Chancellor and almost knock-out David Davis, the one-time favourite. The Tory membership is eurosceptic and will become even more eurosceptic post EU ref and at least 100 Tory MPs will back Brexit, probably more so there is plenty of scope for a Brexit candidate. I fail to see exactly what 'dynamics' I am failing to understand? I was at one time a Tory council candidate and chairman of my university Association, I was briefly a Labour member in the leadership election, I am not a member at present.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?
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    Pulpstar said:

    Farage advocating leaving the EEA as well as EU.

    Really?
    He was banging on about controlling borders and tariffs. That means not being in the EEA.
    Ewww to his economic nationalism.
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    HYUFD said:

    The Tory membership is eurosceptic and will become even more eurosceptic post EU ref

    Why?
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited February 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Farage advocating leaving the EEA as well as EU.

    Really?
    I'd assume so from the immigration comments.
    Yeah, but was he just trying to have it both ways, as usual?
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    isamisam Posts: 40,976
    The so called comedian says the issue over immigration isn't controlling the numbers, but the way the debate is conducted

    One of the funniest things he's ever said Id imagine

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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,112
    edited February 2016
    New Cruz attack ad on Trump 'Power for Personal Gain'
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGWqKkzmJXw
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    West End North (Eastleigh) will be counting in the morning.

    Labour HOLD Lower Stoke (Coventry).
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Only Leanne Wood can make the term "food banks" sound sexy.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,923
    EPG said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Farage was right to call out Carwyn on the strength of the pound there. It gets trotted out far too much as a bullshit argument even when it has fallen. He may have had a point at 1.4 to the € but it gets my goat up that it was used then when it has fallen to 1.3, and the $ is v strong vs the £ anyway.

    It is NOT an argument right now, quite the opposite.

    Carwyn Jones comes across worse and worse each time I see him - how does he still hold office?
    He's not elected by the PB demographic?
    But how is that possible? PB contains all strands of political opinion...

    ...from Eurosceptic Conservative to UKIP

    :)
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    Danny565 said:

    Only Leanne Wood can make the term "food banks" sound sexy.

    Cold shower now!
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,953
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html

    LFWNBPM
    LFCBLOTO
    Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.
    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...
    Evidence? He is probably popular enough to get into the final 2, especially if there is a strong Leave vote and he is popular with the membership
    Loose canon, managed to get sacked very soon after the coalition took office.

    Plus, most of the Parly party only know him as a leadership contest loser. In the Tory party today, that sticks.
    /
    That was 2005.

    And he didn't knock Davis out.
    He was just 6 votes away
    ...
    It was hardly shockingly poor to beat Ken Clarke, a former Chancellor and almost knock-out David Davis, the one-time favourite. The Tory membership is eurosceptic and will become even more eurosceptic post EU ref and at least 100 Tory MPs will back Brexit, probably more so there is plenty of scope for a Brexit candidate. I fail to see exactly what 'dynamics' I am failing to understand? I was at one time a Tory council candidate and chairman of my university Association, I was briefly a Labour member in the leadership election, I am not a member at present.
    You're missing two dynamics and getting all excited about one poll (to which you always lend as much credence as if they were actual elections, by the way.

    1) To win a party leadership election such as in the Tory party you need to have a popular support base and be the nominated leader of that group - Fox is not the obvious leader of the sceptics.

    2) To win a party leadership election such as in the Tory party you need to not be detested by other strong support bases within the party - Fox is unpopular amongst the part of the Tory party which is keener to govern and win elections, REALLY unpopular. Unpopular enough that others would do all they could to stop him getting anywhere near the final ballot.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,112

    HYUFD said:

    The Tory membership is eurosceptic and will become even more eurosceptic post EU ref

    Why?
    As either it will be a narrow Remain in which case they will feel robbed, or it is Leave in which case they will back the best Leave candidate available
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    isamisam Posts: 40,976
    edited February 2016

    That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?
    Crompton had three times the amount of Asians and four times the number of Muslims than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreased since

    http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
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    isam said:

    The so called comedian says the issue over immigration isn't controlling the numbers, but the way the debate is conducted

    One of the funniest things he's ever said Id imagine

    He's way out of his depth
This discussion has been closed.