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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Doctors dispute: Betting opens on whether Hunt will sur

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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited February 2016

    MTimT said:

    FPT @ David Herdson:

    No one can impose a contract on anyone. If in my consulting business a client 'imposes' conditions that are unbearable, I walk away from the contract. If it is unpalatable but bearable, I suck it up unless I have better options.

    The option to walk - or find better work elsewhere - is also available to junior doctors, and I truly hope some of them exercise it. For at least some, the well is so poisoned they should - for their own good as well as that of the NHS - no longer work in the NHS.

    I say this not out of any animus towards the doctors. But we all have to live in the world as it is, and we can't pretend for ever that the world is different for the NHS.

    You can't impose a contract on a person in that they do indeed have the option to walk away, but you can impose new terms and conditions on a workforce as a condition of employment.
    Indeed, but the option still exists to find better or simply walk away.

    At the FCO, we had all sorts of changes of contract imposed without negotiation, including going from simply being posted to an Embassy without consultation, to being able to state one's preferences and usually getting one from within the top three, to having to actually apply and compete through a job interview process. Those who failed to win any jobs were put in the work pool. All that while the number of delegations increased by 10% and the international diplomatic staff was reduced close to 60% (i.e. to 40% of what it had been). I walked, without rancour, as did many others. Others chose to stay. It's called life.

    I could have stayed and become bitter about the imposed conditions and changed work environment, but what would be the point in that? And who would suffer? The FCO marginally by having a disgruntled employee, me massively by having drastically reduced the quality of my life.
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    Good afternoon, everyone.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    edited February 2016
    MikeL said:

    We knew this anyway but we now have absolute 100% confirmation that the Boundary Review will now go ahead on the basis of 600 MPs.

    See the Government Response to the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee’s Eighth Report of Session 2014-15 (just published):

    "What next on the redrawing of parliamentary constituency boundaries?"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/499661/53993_Cm_9203_Print_Ready.pdf

    "At present, Parliamentary constituencies range in size from 22,000 to 108,000 electors. Without the implementation of these boundary reforms, the 2020-25 House of Commons would represent constituencies that are drawn up on electoral register data that is over 20 years’ old"

    But aren't we being told that attending to this issue is "gerrymandering"?
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    On PB there seems to be this idea that anybody who opposes government plans for the public sector is merely a 'vested interest' and not someone with genuine concerns and a legitimate argument.

    And on Gove's reforms: I'd be interested to know how much of a difference they've really made to education. During the Blair/Brown days reports seemed to suggest academies weren't a massive failure, but they weren't a massive success either and I haven't seen much regarding any news on the impact (positive or negative) on Gove's reforms.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,427
    taffys said:

    ''If Deutsche Bank goes down, it will go down in the same way RBS did, only with the German taxpayer bailing it out rather than the UK one.''

    Its not clear to me what is really threatening DB's viability. I read the term 'litigation' bandied around a lot, surely the regulators can't be fining their way into a financial crisis?

    The suspicion is that they are carrying very large volumes of non performing loans, sufficient to undermine their capital and cause short term solvency issues. No idea if that is true or too many people enjoying a good film!
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Greetings Mr. Dancer. Dog had a good walk? (Mine's just had a couple - in the nice early spring sunshine....)
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    Mr. Mark, the dog's getting a bit better at walks. Missed a trick to take her on the fields this morning. They're normally waterlogged but it was frosty.

    Gets a bit ratty when her paws need wiping, though.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,016
    "Polling Matters" is a bit of a hostage to fortune as a name for a blog isn't it btw?
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    isam said:

    What you are saying is almost "if mug punters bet like shrewdies they'd be ok"! V few people bother having more than one account (if any) and even fewer use oddschecker

    I am past caring now to be honest, I accept my lot and get on with it. I no longer look at a winner that I would have backed big and get the hump

    The Greek Govt have got nothing on the HKJC monopoly... taking best price is a criminal offence there

    No, I am saying that mug punters get a far better return than they used to, thanks to the internet & competition. A lot of that has been driven by tighter pricing which obviously increases opportunities for shrewdies - and of course technology has made it easier to track and detect these shrewdies.

    The Pinnacle/Asia model of not running as many markets but being prepared to trade the price works fine too but it is a very different model.

    I've long since stopped worrying about not getting on too. Just the odd shop trip for politics and AP baseball which is as much about getting one over on them as anything.
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    Mortimer said:

    OT the courts closures might prove controversial.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35552199
    More than 97% of citizens would still be able to reach their required court "by car within an hour" after the closures, [the minister said]

    What about by bus or train? How big are court car parks and are they free?

    I am going to sound like a proper cold hearted Tory here.

    But it is possible to avoid the need to visit a court.

    Totally

    For one's entire life.
    What if you are a victim? Or a witness? Or a juror? I would suggest that the actual accused standing in the box makes up very much a minority of the number of people who have to attend court at some point.
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    isam said:

    "Polling Matters" is a bit of a hostage to fortune as a name for a blog isn't it btw?

    Only if you read it as [noun verb] rather than [gerundive noun].
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    On PB there seems to be this idea that anybody who opposes government plans for the public sector is merely a 'vested interest' and not someone with genuine concerns and a legitimate argument.

    And on Gove's reforms: I'd be interested to know how much of a difference they've really made to education. During the Blair/Brown days reports seemed to suggest academies weren't a massive failure, but they weren't a massive success either and I haven't seen much regarding any news on the impact (positive or negative) on Gove's reforms.

    There's certainly been a step change in expectations at primary level. That's not to say that it's all good but it certainly stops brighter children coasting.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''The suspicion is that they are carrying very large volumes of non performing loans, sufficient to undermine their capital and cause short term solvency issues.''

    Interesting, non-performing loans to what type of borrower, I wonder. Corporate default rates are still below long term averages, there is no real evidence the corporate world is in that much trouble (apart from energy companies, I guess.).
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    isamisam Posts: 41,016

    isam said:

    What you are saying is almost "if mug punters bet like shrewdies they'd be ok"! V few people bother having more than one account (if any) and even fewer use oddschecker

    I am past caring now to be honest, I accept my lot and get on with it. I no longer look at a winner that I would have backed big and get the hump

    The Greek Govt have got nothing on the HKJC monopoly... taking best price is a criminal offence there

    No, I am saying that mug punters get a far better return than they used to, thanks to the internet & competition. A lot of that has been driven by tighter pricing which obviously increases opportunities for shrewdies - and of course technology has made it easier to track and detect these shrewdies.

    The Pinnacle/Asia model of not running as many markets but being prepared to trade the price works fine too but it is a very different model.

    I've long since stopped worrying about not getting on too. Just the odd shop trip for politics and AP baseball which is as much about getting one over on them as anything.
    It doesn't ring true to me, as you are ignoring the fact that they are mug punters... 15 years ago you'd pay 10% tax and could only bet trebles and upwards on football matches, true, but its not as if mugs are now just betting singles at tight over round; if they did, they wouldn't be mugs

    In a nutshell, people that shop around, bet in singles at best odds etc ARENT MUGS

    As for the shrewdie part, I am in a minority of betting traders in that when I worked for a company I used to relish the challenge of taking them on and hated having to restrict. Then again I love the game for the game not just for the dough
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,427
    I honestly thought that this was going to be the shortest article since that famous chapter on owls in Iceland but apparently not: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/how-jeremy-corbyn-is-preparing-for-pmqs/

    Astonishing levels of self-delusion.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,016

    isam said:

    "Polling Matters" is a bit of a hostage to fortune as a name for a blog isn't it btw?

    Only if you read it as [noun verb] rather than [gerundive noun].
    Well surely its meant to be read both ways? You think its an accident that it can be read more than one?
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    On PB there seems to be this idea that anybody who opposes government plans for the public sector is merely a 'vested interest' and not someone with genuine concerns and a legitimate argument.

    And on Gove's reforms: I'd be interested to know how much of a difference they've really made to education. During the Blair/Brown days reports seemed to suggest academies weren't a massive failure, but they weren't a massive success either and I haven't seen much regarding any news on the impact (positive or negative) on Gove's reforms.

    The junior doctors are saying "it's not the money, it's the principle". On such occasions, I follow Artemus Ward.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    On PB there seems to be this idea that anybody who opposes government plans for the public sector is merely a 'vested interest' and not someone with genuine concerns and a legitimate argument.

    And on Gove's reforms: I'd be interested to know how much of a difference they've really made to education. During the Blair/Brown days reports seemed to suggest academies weren't a massive failure, but they weren't a massive success either and I haven't seen much regarding any news on the impact (positive or negative) on Gove's reforms.

    I'd say that idea is pretty much widespread, rather than specifically an issue on pb.

    If there were proposed new regulations to the antiquarian bookselling industry (probably some suspension of disbelief required here), I'd be a vested interest. However much my expertise might be more than the average man on the Balham Omnibus, and my concerns genuine and legitimate, I'd still be a vested interest.


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    Uniondivie

    Thanks for the link below. I'm surprised that this MORI poll has not generated more interest from the usual suspects on this site.

    Of course massive SNP leads are commonplace as are dismal Labour ratings. However majorities for independence and substantial majorities on the supposition of a BREXIT are not and therefore should be worthy of substantial commentary.

    Also of interest is the MORI polling reversal in the fortunes of the Tory Party and in particular their leader after a few (for them) relatively encouraging polls. This MORI survey has them well cemented in third place but even worse for regular PB posters the MORI leadership which are, by general acknowledgement, the most reliable leadership indicators, expose Ruth Davidson as third rate rather than second rate in the leadership approval stakes. They have now set the bar at coming second. Not do so will represent another failure.

    Come to think of it with these sort of figures it is little wonder that the usual suspects are keeping their heads down!


    http://tinyurl.com/gkrd6bo
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    isam said:

    It doesn't ring true to me, as you are ignoring the fact that they are mug punters... 15 years ago you'd pay 10% tax and could only bet trebles and upwards on football matches, true, but its not as if mugs are now just betting singles at tight over round; if they did, they wouldn't be mugs

    In a nutshell, people that shop around, bet in singles at best odds etc ARENT MUGS

    Sure, but they used to lose a theoretical 29% on a coupon treble (ignoring tax) (1/112%)^3. Now (especially if they're online) they might lose 14% or even less (1/105%)^3.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,129
    taffys said:

    ''If Deutsche Bank goes down, it will go down in the same way RBS did, only with the German taxpayer bailing it out rather than the UK one.''

    Its not clear to me what is really threatening DB's viability. I read the term 'litigation' bandied around a lot, surely the regulators can't be fining their way into a financial crisis?

    It's unlikely :lol:

    More seriously, Deutsche Bank's problems are mostly that it tried to "play with the big boys" in investment banking, and has a huge cost base. What Deutsche Bank does not have is a very large number of underwater loans.

    Total loans outstanding are EUR433bn. The company has shareholders equity of EUR69bn.

    That's barely levered by the standards of most banks. Northern Rock, RBS and the like were levered 50-1 or more, Deutsche Bank's leverage is less than a fifth of that.

    And the Germans don't owe very much money. Germany household debt is something like 55% of GDP. On the St Louis Fed numbers, that's the lowest in the developed world. (We, by the way, are on a scary 180+%). Corporate debt has declined since 2007, by roughly a quarter too. There's relatively little exposure to oil & gas or mining companies too.

    So, while Deutsche Bank has a great many problems, in particular in terms of spending a lot of money to hire people to compete with Goldman, Morgan Stanley and the like, it would appear to be very far from insolvent.
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    scotslass said:

    Come to think of it with these sort of figures it is little wonder that the usual suspects are keeping their heads down!

    SindyRef 2 Nailed on then?

    Date?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    DavidL said:

    I honestly thought that this was going to be the shortest article since that famous chapter on owls in Iceland but apparently not: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/how-jeremy-corbyn-is-preparing-for-pmqs/

    Astonishing levels of self-delusion.

    The only breeding owl on Iceland is the Short-eared Owl. However, Long-eared Owl, European Scops Owl and Snowy Owl have all been recorded as rare vagrants.

    Brief enough?
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    MikeL said:

    We knew this anyway but we now have absolute 100% confirmation that the Boundary Review will now go ahead on the basis of 600 MPs.

    See the Government Response to the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee’s Eighth Report of Session 2014-15 (just published):

    "What next on the redrawing of parliamentary constituency boundaries?"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/499661/53993_Cm_9203_Print_Ready.pdf

    "At present, Parliamentary constituencies range in size from 22,000 to 108,000 electors. Without the implementation of these boundary reforms, the 2020-25 House of Commons would represent constituencies that are drawn up on electoral register data that is over 20 years’ old"

    But aren't we being told that attending to this issue is "gerrymandering"?
    That 22,000 one will stay won't it? Isn't it the Western Isles (or whatever the Gallic is for it)?
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    rcs1000 said:

    And the Germans don't owe very much money. Germany household debt is something like 55% of GDP. On the St Louis Fed numbers, that's the lowest in the developed world. (We, by the way, are on a scary 180+%). Corporate debt has declined since 2007, by roughly a quarter too. There's relatively little exposure to oil & gas or mining companies too.

    That 180% isn't a net figure though is it?

    I may have a mortgage exceeding 180% of my annual salary but the house is worth double what my outstanding mortgage is so I'm not worried. I seem to recall a recent graphic showing Britons had more in net assets than Germans did, so more debt isn't an issue if it is productive debt.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,016

    isam said:

    It doesn't ring true to me, as you are ignoring the fact that they are mug punters... 15 years ago you'd pay 10% tax and could only bet trebles and upwards on football matches, true, but its not as if mugs are now just betting singles at tight over round; if they did, they wouldn't be mugs

    In a nutshell, people that shop around, bet in singles at best odds etc ARENT MUGS

    Sure, but they used to lose a theoretical 29% on a coupon treble (ignoring tax) (1/112%)^3. Now (especially if they're online) they might lose 14% or even less (1/105%)^3.
    Haha this could go on all day!

    But I would argue, at the time when it was minimum trebles, those only playing trebles were relative shrewdies, and the mugs were doing 7 folds. Hey ho

    People who bet in small size for a hobby, work out the odds for themselves and take best price are getting closed/heavily restricted, that is the point
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    JPJ2JPJ2 Posts: 378
    Who could blame Nicola Sturgeon for commencing FMQs today by reminding everyone that Hunt's actions in England do not apply to Scotland.

    She did not say anything else, nor did she need to.

    How big will the SNP victory be in May? BIG :-)
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,427

    DavidL said:

    I honestly thought that this was going to be the shortest article since that famous chapter on owls in Iceland but apparently not: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/how-jeremy-corbyn-is-preparing-for-pmqs/

    Astonishing levels of self-delusion.

    The only breeding owl on Iceland is the Short-eared Owl. However, Long-eared Owl, European Scops Owl and Snowy Owl have all been recorded as rare vagrants.

    Brief enough?
    Maybe I have got that wrong. I am sure the story was that the chapter was called Owls in Iceland and the text; "There are no owls in Iceland."

    There was also the blank page in someone's biography about the knowledge of the average director of a football club. Maybe I should have used that.
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    isam said:

    isam said:

    "Polling Matters" is a bit of a hostage to fortune as a name for a blog isn't it btw?

    Only if you read it as [noun verb] rather than [gerundive noun].
    Well surely its meant to be read both ways? You think its an accident that it can be read more than one?
    No, but it means you can get away with it not being a hostage to fortune (or indeed seen as an idle boast!)
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    edited February 2016

    On PB there seems to be this idea that anybody who opposes government plans for the public sector is merely a 'vested interest' and not someone with genuine concerns and a legitimate argument.

    And on Gove's reforms: I'd be interested to know how much of a difference they've really made to education. During the Blair/Brown days reports seemed to suggest academies weren't a massive failure, but they weren't a massive success either and I haven't seen much regarding any news on the impact (positive or negative) on Gove's reforms.

    The junior doctors are saying "it's not the money, it's the principle". On such occasions, I follow Artemus Ward.
    The Junior doctor complaint now seems to have boiled down to them not liking their time and a half on Saturday being removed. That seems like a fairly easy issue for most of the population to grasp.

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    isamisam Posts: 41,016
    edited February 2016

    isam said:

    isam said:

    "Polling Matters" is a bit of a hostage to fortune as a name for a blog isn't it btw?

    Only if you read it as [noun verb] rather than [gerundive noun].
    Well surely its meant to be read both ways? You think its an accident that it can be read more than one?
    No, but it means you can get away with it not being a hostage to fortune (or indeed seen as an idle boast!)
    I think its the natural thing to read it in light of GE 2015 and think "No it don't"

    Did you get my mail? A ricket or is it a deliberate gift to the punters in this age of giveaways???
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    Mr. J2, that's a bit like saying Sturgeon's predicted the sun will set, and crediting her for it when it does.

    Hunt's NHS stance will not make any significant difference in Scotland. The SNP have been a day and a half ahead in the polls for months, perhaps years, now.
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    JonathanD said:

    On PB there seems to be this idea that anybody who opposes government plans for the public sector is merely a 'vested interest' and not someone with genuine concerns and a legitimate argument.

    And on Gove's reforms: I'd be interested to know how much of a difference they've really made to education. During the Blair/Brown days reports seemed to suggest academies weren't a massive failure, but they weren't a massive success either and I haven't seen much regarding any news on the impact (positive or negative) on Gove's reforms.

    The junior doctors are saying "it's not the money, it's the principle". On such occasions, I follow Artemus Ward.
    The Junior doctor complaint now seems to have boiled down to them not liking their time and a half on Saturday being removed. That seems like a fairly easy issue for most of the population to grasp.

    The public massively back the doctors. Conservatives on here who think otherwise are deluding themselves. There isn't the slightest evidence that support is weakening.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    MikeL said:

    We knew this anyway but we now have absolute 100% confirmation that the Boundary Review will now go ahead on the basis of 600 MPs.

    See the Government Response to the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee’s Eighth Report of Session 2014-15 (just published):

    "What next on the redrawing of parliamentary constituency boundaries?"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/499661/53993_Cm_9203_Print_Ready.pdf

    "At present, Parliamentary constituencies range in size from 22,000 to 108,000 electors. Without the implementation of these boundary reforms, the 2020-25 House of Commons would represent constituencies that are drawn up on electoral register data that is over 20 years’ old"

    But aren't we being told that attending to this issue is "gerrymandering"?
    That 22,000 one will stay won't it? Isn't it the Western Isles (or whatever the Gallic is for it)?
    Presumably, Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Western Isles as was) will keep that distinction of being the smallest, along with Orkney and Shetland. Both together would barely make two thirds of a new 600-seat sized constituency, but given the issue the MP has of getting around to represent the islands, it would be hard to make a case for smashing them together with a vast acreage of, say, Sutherland.
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    On PB there seems to be this idea that anybody who opposes government plans for the public sector is merely a 'vested interest' and not someone with genuine concerns and a legitimate argument.

    And on Gove's reforms: I'd be interested to know how much of a difference they've really made to education. During the Blair/Brown days reports seemed to suggest academies weren't a massive failure, but they weren't a massive success either and I haven't seen much regarding any news on the impact (positive or negative) on Gove's reforms.

    The junior doctors are saying "it's not the money, it's the principle". On such occasions, I follow Artemus Ward.
    Since the doctors not working weekends would be getting an 11% rise from Hunt and only 4% under the BMA's counter-proposal, maybe for them at least it wasn't about money.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,129

    rcs1000 said:

    And the Germans don't owe very much money. Germany household debt is something like 55% of GDP. On the St Louis Fed numbers, that's the lowest in the developed world. (We, by the way, are on a scary 180+%). Corporate debt has declined since 2007, by roughly a quarter too. There's relatively little exposure to oil & gas or mining companies too.

    That 180% isn't a net figure though is it?

    I may have a mortgage exceeding 180% of my annual salary but the house is worth double what my outstanding mortgage is so I'm not worried. I seem to recall a recent graphic showing Britons had more in net assets than Germans did, so more debt isn't an issue if it is productive debt.
    That is true in the long-run, but from a bank's perspective they care about your ability to service debts. The lower the household debt load, the less likely there is that loans will become non-performing.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,427
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I honestly thought that this was going to be the shortest article since that famous chapter on owls in Iceland but apparently not: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/how-jeremy-corbyn-is-preparing-for-pmqs/

    Astonishing levels of self-delusion.

    The only breeding owl on Iceland is the Short-eared Owl. However, Long-eared Owl, European Scops Owl and Snowy Owl have all been recorded as rare vagrants.

    Brief enough?
    Maybe I have got that wrong. I am sure the story was that the chapter was called Owls in Iceland and the text; "There are no owls in Iceland."

    There was also the blank page in someone's biography about the knowledge of the average director of a football club. Maybe I should have used that.
    Edit: this is what I was thinking of: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ljdFAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA61&lpg=PA61&dq=there+are+no+owls+in+iceland&source=bl&ots=vpzi0pby9b&sig=-POD-seJmLS_KX6pQ3iUWuuaNDA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJh7fSjvDKAhVHzRQKHeuYDZgQ6AEIMDAC#v=onepage&q=there are no owls in iceland&f=false
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    JPJ2 said:

    Who could blame Nicola Sturgeon for commencing FMQs today by reminding everyone that Hunt's actions in England do not apply to Scotland.

    Good to know that the NHS in Scotland is organised around the interests of the producers, not the consumers.......
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,088
    Hunt’s main problem is, as has been stated before, that if you insist on “normal” services on a seven day basis in hospitals, there are a lot more people involved than just doctors. And he seems to have the simplistic view that doctors can, and do, do everything, except perhaps that which nurses do.

    Now, as someone who used to ‘cover” at night and weekends in the managed NHS, I’ve got a lot of sympathy with the idea of seven day working, but Hunt’s trying to bring it about in a ham-fisted, thoughtless fashion which will almost certainbly cause more problems for everyone concerned.
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    JonathanD said:

    On PB there seems to be this idea that anybody who opposes government plans for the public sector is merely a 'vested interest' and not someone with genuine concerns and a legitimate argument.

    And on Gove's reforms: I'd be interested to know how much of a difference they've really made to education. During the Blair/Brown days reports seemed to suggest academies weren't a massive failure, but they weren't a massive success either and I haven't seen much regarding any news on the impact (positive or negative) on Gove's reforms.

    The junior doctors are saying "it's not the money, it's the principle". On such occasions, I follow Artemus Ward.
    The Junior doctor complaint now seems to have boiled down to them not liking their time and a half on Saturday being removed. That seems like a fairly easy issue for most of the population to grasp.

    The public massively back the doctors. Conservatives on here who think otherwise are deluding themselves. There isn't the slightest evidence that support is weakening.
    Well of course they do. But what good is that going to do the doctors? Or indeed, what harm to the government? It's easy to have an opinion; how many people will act on it?
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,375
    Mortimer said:



    Care to comment that momentum seems to be swinging behind the Govt?

    Not in any significant way - what's happened according to the poll is an element of polarisation, with 8% swinging from "tend to support" to "strongly support" and 7% swinging from don't know/neither to "oppose", especially "strongly oppose". The overall balance is a 3-1 lead for the doctors, with opinion hardening. If you were Jeremy Hunt, would you treat the news that 14% strongly support you with jubilation?

    It's brave in the Yes Minister sense. But e's obviously got contract imposition cleared, so better on him still being in post in January looks sensible.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    On PB there seems to be this idea that anybody who opposes government plans for the public sector is merely a 'vested interest' and not someone with genuine concerns and a legitimate argument.

    And on Gove's reforms: I'd be interested to know how much of a difference they've really made to education. During the Blair/Brown days reports seemed to suggest academies weren't a massive failure, but they weren't a massive success either and I haven't seen much regarding any news on the impact (positive or negative) on Gove's reforms.

    Miss Apocalypse, changes to education take many years before their effects become apparent. It is much too early to come to a judgement on Gove's very limited reforms. Which is a bit of a pisser really, both for the children involved and the nation as a whole.

    However, there are some eternal verities in the world of UK education. Well, if not eternal then dating back to the 19th century. Firstly, a system designed to produce a few paladins to run an empire is no basis for a national education system. Secondly, not every child wants, needs or is cut out for academic based education and the UK needs to get serious about vocational and technical education. Those two points were in the conclusions of a parliamentary commission into education in 1874 - we still haven't taken them on board. Thirdly, as a rule of thumb, if the educational establishment and particularly the teachers' unions oppose an idea than that idea is probably worth adopting.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I honestly thought that this was going to be the shortest article since that famous chapter on owls in Iceland but apparently not: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/how-jeremy-corbyn-is-preparing-for-pmqs/

    Astonishing levels of self-delusion.

    The only breeding owl on Iceland is the Short-eared Owl. However, Long-eared Owl, European Scops Owl and Snowy Owl have all been recorded as rare vagrants.

    Brief enough?
    Maybe I have got that wrong. I am sure the story was that the chapter was called Owls in Iceland and the text; "There are no owls in Iceland."

    There was also the blank page in someone's biography about the knowledge of the average director of a football club. Maybe I should have used that.
    There are owls pretty much everywhere on the planet (bar Antarctica). They are very strong flyers and are able to move great distances if their food source, for example, dives over a cliff...

    That said, in the time I have been birding, there hasn't been a Hawk Owl made it down from Finland. The next Hawk Owl will be a mighty twitch - virtually nobody has seen one in the UK.
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    Mortimer said:



    Care to comment that momentum seems to be swinging behind the Govt?

    Not in any significant way - what's happened according to the poll is an element of polarisation, with 8% swinging from "tend to support" to "strongly support" and 7% swinging from don't know/neither to "oppose", especially "strongly oppose". The overall balance is a 3-1 lead for the doctors, with opinion hardening. If you were Jeremy Hunt, would you treat the news that 14% strongly support you with jubilation?

    It's brave in the Yes Minister sense. But e's obviously got contract imposition cleared, so better on him still being in post in January looks sensible.
    Since when does a Government make decisions on opinion polls. A strong Government does what it considers it has been mandated to do irrespective of popularity. Mind you Labour wouldn't recognize that concept as it has never made a decision that doesn't involve spending more and more of other peoples money
  • Options

    Hunt’s main problem is, as has been stated before, that if you insist on “normal” services on a seven day basis in hospitals, there are a lot more people involved than just doctors. And he seems to have the simplistic view that doctors can, and do, do everything, except perhaps that which nurses do.

    I expect thats why he explained in his HoC statement that work remains to be done in the area of support services.....

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,427
    Would it be fair to assume that the choice of the new presenters was a committee decision?
  • Options
    King Cole, huzzah for your tip's success the other day :)
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Thirdly, as a rule of thumb, if the educational establishment and particularly the teachers' unions oppose an idea than that idea is probably worth adopting.

    Amen
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    MikeL said:

    We knew this anyway but we now have absolute 100% confirmation that the Boundary Review will now go ahead on the basis of 600 MPs.

    See the Government Response to the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee’s Eighth Report of Session 2014-15 (just published):

    "What next on the redrawing of parliamentary constituency boundaries?"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/499661/53993_Cm_9203_Print_Ready.pdf

    "At present, Parliamentary constituencies range in size from 22,000 to 108,000 electors. Without the implementation of these boundary reforms, the 2020-25 House of Commons would represent constituencies that are drawn up on electoral register data that is over 20 years’ old"

    But aren't we being told that attending to this issue is "gerrymandering"?
    That 22,000 one will stay won't it? Isn't it the Western Isles (or whatever the Gallic is for it)?
    Presumably, Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Western Isles as was) will keep that distinction of being the smallest, along with Orkney and Shetland. Both together would barely make two thirds of a new 600-seat sized constituency, but given the issue the MP has of getting around to represent the islands, it would be hard to make a case for smashing them together with a vast acreage of, say, Sutherland.
    Yes, I'd agree to an extent (I do think that 22000 is very much on the low side - it should be possible to include some of the Inner Hebrides without placing too much on the MP), but it's right that there is some consideration of constituency size.

    It just seemed odd to use it as a case for reform when the legislation then protects it from that reform!
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    JonathanD said:

    On PB there seems to be this idea that anybody who opposes government plans for the public sector is merely a 'vested interest' and not someone with genuine concerns and a legitimate argument.

    And on Gove's reforms: I'd be interested to know how much of a difference they've really made to education. During the Blair/Brown days reports seemed to suggest academies weren't a massive failure, but they weren't a massive success either and I haven't seen much regarding any news on the impact (positive or negative) on Gove's reforms.

    The junior doctors are saying "it's not the money, it's the principle". On such occasions, I follow Artemus Ward.
    The Junior doctor complaint now seems to have boiled down to them not liking their time and a half on Saturday being removed. That seems like a fairly easy issue for most of the population to grasp.

    The public massively back the doctors. Conservatives on here who think otherwise are deluding themselves. There isn't the slightest evidence that support is weakening.
    There is actually evidence that undecideds are swinging towards the government. Supporting Docs is an emotional reaction. Their stock will only go down from here.

    And what of their support? They're some of the most trusted middle class employees, not seeking office. It won't prevent the imposition of the policy or affect the standing of the government.

  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341


    Since when does a Government make decisions on opinion polls.

    Since opinion polls were first invented.

  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,908
    DavidL said:

    Would it be fair to assume that the choice of the new presenters was a committee decision?
    From one extreme to the other regarding PC
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I honestly thought that this was going to be the shortest article since that famous chapter on owls in Iceland but apparently not: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/how-jeremy-corbyn-is-preparing-for-pmqs/

    Astonishing levels of self-delusion.

    The only breeding owl on Iceland is the Short-eared Owl. However, Long-eared Owl, European Scops Owl and Snowy Owl have all been recorded as rare vagrants.

    Brief enough?
    Maybe I have got that wrong. I am sure the story was that the chapter was called Owls in Iceland and the text; "There are no owls in Iceland."

    There was also the blank page in someone's biography about the knowledge of the average director of a football club. Maybe I should have used that.
    Edit: this is what I was thinking of: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ljdFAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA61&lpg=PA61&dq=there+are+no+owls+in+iceland&source=bl&ots=vpzi0pby9b&sig=-POD-seJmLS_KX6pQ3iUWuuaNDA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJh7fSjvDKAhVHzRQKHeuYDZgQ6AEIMDAC#v=onepage&q=there are no owls in iceland&f=false
    You were right...they were wrong!
  • Options


    Since when does a Government make decisions on opinion polls.

    Since opinion polls were first invented.

    Well not on this subject (Junior Doctors) then
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    Mr. L, I was more amused by the fact that the not massive Evans has managed to find six other presenters who are all shorter than him :p
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,908
    runnymede said:

    Thirdly, as a rule of thumb, if the educational establishment and particularly the teachers' unions oppose an idea than that idea is probably worth adopting.

    Amen

    Unions oppose scrapping Trident.

    Does your theory only apply in education.
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    DavidL said:

    Would it be fair to assume that the choice of the new presenters was a committee decision?
    I once did research at the BBC archives in Caversham. They have on display the two letters which created Desert Island disks - Roy Plomley's letter suggesting it, the other saying 'what a wonderful idea, lets do it'.

    And that's it.

    No management consultants
    No quantitative consumer research
    No focus groups
    No pre-market testing
    No committee minutes
    No Management reviews....

    .....just an idea, and agreement to do it......
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    Mortimer said:



    Care to comment that momentum seems to be swinging behind the Govt?

    Not in any significant way - what's happened according to the poll is an element of polarisation, with 8% swinging from "tend to support" to "strongly support" and 7% swinging from don't know/neither to "oppose", especially "strongly oppose". The overall balance is a 3-1 lead for the doctors, with opinion hardening. If you were Jeremy Hunt, would you treat the news that 14% strongly support you with jubilation?

    It's brave in the Yes Minister sense. But e's obviously got contract imposition cleared, so better on him still being in post in January looks sensible.
    Yes, although that's down from 4:1 last time. Clearly not where the government would want it to be, of course.

    On the practical politics, yes. Hunt won't have taken a flyer on this - the PM will have to back it at PMQs and elsewhere - so if he is sacked, it'll be for his handling of the issue rather than the decision itself.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,602

    DavidL said:

    Would it be fair to assume that the choice of the new presenters was a committee decision?
    From one extreme to the other regarding PC
    I think it's a spoof.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,427

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I honestly thought that this was going to be the shortest article since that famous chapter on owls in Iceland but apparently not: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/how-jeremy-corbyn-is-preparing-for-pmqs/

    Astonishing levels of self-delusion.

    The only breeding owl on Iceland is the Short-eared Owl. However, Long-eared Owl, European Scops Owl and Snowy Owl have all been recorded as rare vagrants.

    Brief enough?
    Maybe I have got that wrong. I am sure the story was that the chapter was called Owls in Iceland and the text; "There are no owls in Iceland."

    There was also the blank page in someone's biography about the knowledge of the average director of a football club. Maybe I should have used that.
    Edit: this is what I was thinking of: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ljdFAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA61&lpg=PA61&dq=there+are+no+owls+in+iceland&source=bl&ots=vpzi0pby9b&sig=-POD-seJmLS_KX6pQ3iUWuuaNDA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJh7fSjvDKAhVHzRQKHeuYDZgQ6AEIMDAC#v=onepage&q=there are no owls in iceland&f=false
    You were right...they were wrong!
    I am not sure my rather feeble joke survived all this.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,300
    edited February 2016

    DavidL said:

    Would it be fair to assume that the choice of the new presenters was a committee decision?
    I once did research at the BBC archives in Caversham. They have on display the two letters which created Desert Island disks - Roy Plomley's letter suggesting it, the other saying 'what a wonderful idea, lets do it'.

    And that's it.

    No management consultants
    No quantitative consumer research
    No focus groups
    No pre-market testing
    No committee minutes
    No Management reviews....

    .....just an idea, and agreement to do it......
    I can't even start to imagine how many people and how much money they spent on the decision to "scrap" BBC3, complete with new logo and a decision process that took best part of 2 years.
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,352
    Poor old Hunt looks to be the fall guy. He hasn't stuffed their mouths with enough gold. Now who said that?
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,908

    DavidL said:

    Would it be fair to assume that the choice of the new presenters was a committee decision?
    From one extreme to the other regarding PC
    I think it's a spoof.
    Oh good that line up looks dire
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I honestly thought that this was going to be the shortest article since that famous chapter on owls in Iceland but apparently not: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/how-jeremy-corbyn-is-preparing-for-pmqs/

    Astonishing levels of self-delusion.

    The only breeding owl on Iceland is the Short-eared Owl. However, Long-eared Owl, European Scops Owl and Snowy Owl have all been recorded as rare vagrants.

    Brief enough?
    Maybe I have got that wrong. I am sure the story was that the chapter was called Owls in Iceland and the text; "There are no owls in Iceland."

    There was also the blank page in someone's biography about the knowledge of the average director of a football club. Maybe I should have used that.
    Edit: this is what I was thinking of: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ljdFAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA61&lpg=PA61&dq=there+are+no+owls+in+iceland&source=bl&ots=vpzi0pby9b&sig=-POD-seJmLS_KX6pQ3iUWuuaNDA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJh7fSjvDKAhVHzRQKHeuYDZgQ6AEIMDAC#v=onepage&q=there are no owls in iceland&f=false
    You were right...they were wrong!
    I am not sure my rather feeble joke survived all this.
    On the bright side, the pb commentariat is now the most informed body on the planet on the status of the Owls of Iceland....
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    Mr. Urquhart, one fears they'll axe BBC4, but keep The Voice, and other assorted nonsense.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Hunt’s main problem is, as has been stated before, that if you insist on “normal” services on a seven day basis in hospitals, there are a lot more people involved than just doctors. And he seems to have the simplistic view that doctors can, and do, do everything, except perhaps that which nurses do.

    Now, as someone who used to ‘cover” at night and weekends in the managed NHS, I’ve got a lot of sympathy with the idea of seven day working, but Hunt’s trying to bring it about in a ham-fisted, thoughtless fashion which will almost certainbly cause more problems for everyone concerned.

    As has also been stated before, the plan is clearly to get doctors in place 24/7 and then the other staff. It can't happen the other way around.
  • Options

    runnymede said:

    Thirdly, as a rule of thumb, if the educational establishment and particularly the teachers' unions oppose an idea than that idea is probably worth adopting.

    Amen

    Unions oppose scrapping Trident.

    Does your theory only apply in education.
    It's a misapplication of the theory. As a rule of thumb, all unions oppose all change. Scrapping Trident would be a change.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,300
    edited February 2016

    Mr. Urquhart, one fears they'll axe BBC4, but keep The Voice, and other assorted nonsense.

    No the Voice is gone. The idiots at ITV have decided that they are willing to pay more money for it as a replacement for X-Factor.

    I don't really understand how the best of BBC3/BBC4 couldn't be just shown on BBC2. There is little need to repeat shows multiple times a week, given iplayer and dvr's etc...but thats what we get e.g. HIGNFY, then the extended version with stuff they didn't think was funny enough for a 30 min show a few days later.
  • Options
    Mr. Urquhart, good, (except that the BBC squandered millions on it whilst doing a deal to shaft free-to-air viewers of F1, which they have also completely lost).
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    DavidL said:

    Would it be fair to assume that the choice of the new presenters was a committee decision?
    From one extreme to the other regarding PC
    I think it's a spoof.
    Yes. They haven't included The Really Fat Person to do reports on Mobility Scooters....
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    On the bright side, the pb commentariat is now the most informed body on the planet on the status of the Owls of Iceland....

    As on most topics..
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,908

    Mr. Urquhart, one fears they'll axe BBC4, but keep The Voice, and other assorted nonsense.

    The Voice has already gone to ITV in 2017.


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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,352
    Mr Mark,

    "Huge science news - gravitational waves detected":

    It's a pity Einstein can't get a Nobel Prize for his work on General Relativity - too late now, of course.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,016
    By the way, I don't know if any of you are fans of Desert Island Discs? I find it quite a relaxing listen in the bath... but anyway, last weeks was Bill Gates and I guess that may be of interest to some on here
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,908
    edited February 2016

    runnymede said:

    Thirdly, as a rule of thumb, if the educational establishment and particularly the teachers' unions oppose an idea than that idea is probably worth adopting.

    Amen

    Unions oppose scrapping Trident.

    Does your theory only apply in education.
    all unions oppose all change.

    Unions are conservative!!!
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    CD13 said:

    Mr Mark,

    "Huge science news - gravitational waves detected":

    It's a pity Einstein can't get a Nobel Prize for his work on General Relativity - too late now, of course.

    A posthumous award would be nice. Given that he never got one for relativity....
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited February 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    ''If Deutsche Bank goes down, it will go down in the same way RBS did, only with the German taxpayer bailing it out rather than the UK one.''
    image
    Its not clear to me what is really threatening DB's viability. I read the term 'litigation' bandied around a lot, surely the regulators can't be fining their way into a financial crisis?

    It's unlikely :lol:

    More seriously, Deutsche Bank's problems are mostly that it tried to "play with the big boys" in investment banking, and has a huge cost base. What Deutsche Bank does not have is a very large number of underwater loans.

    Total loans outstanding are EUR433bn. The company has shareholders equity of EUR69bn.

    That's barely levered by the standards of most banks. Northern Rock, RBS and the like were levered 50-1 or more, Deutsche Bank's leverage is less than a fifth of that.

    And the Germans don't owe very much money. Germany household debt is something like 55% of GDP. On the St Louis Fed numbers, that's the lowest in the developed world. (We, by the way, are on a scary 180+%). Corporate debt has declined since 2007, by roughly a quarter too. There's relatively little exposure to oil & gas or mining companies too.

    So, while Deutsche Bank has a great many problems, in particular in terms of spending a lot of money to hire people to compete with Goldman, Morgan Stanley and the like, it would appear to be very far from insolvent.
    Credit Suisse Group AG plunged to a 27-year low as a selloff across the industry compounded doubts about Chief Executive Officer Tidjane Thiam’s restructuring plans.
    A rout in bank stocks deepened on Thursday after France’s Societe Generale SA missed fourth-quarter profit estimates, with earnings declining 35 percent at the investment bank. Credit Suisse shares dropped as much as 9 percent, before trading at 12.39 Swiss francs, down 7.8 percent at 5:25 p.m. in Zurich. That’s the lowest level since October 1989...
    image
    Something's up.

    Gold and Silver certainly are...
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited February 2016
    Mortimer said:

    JonathanD said:

    On PB there seems to be this idea that anybody who opposes government plans for the public sector is merely a 'vested interest' and not someone with genuine concerns and a legitimate argument.

    And on Gove's reforms: I'd be interested to know how much of a difference they've really made to education. During the Blair/Brown days reports seemed to suggest academies weren't a massive failure, but they weren't a massive success either and I haven't seen much regarding any news on the impact (positive or negative) on Gove's reforms.

    The junior doctors are saying "it's not the money, it's the principle". On such occasions, I follow Artemus Ward.
    The Junior doctor complaint now seems to have boiled down to them not liking their time and a half on Saturday being removed. That seems like a fairly easy issue for most of the population to grasp.

    The public massively back the doctors. Conservatives on here who think otherwise are deluding themselves. There isn't the slightest evidence that support is weakening.
    There is actually evidence that undecideds are swinging towards the government. Supporting Docs is an emotional reaction. Their stock will only go down from here.

    And what of their support? They're some of the most trusted middle class employees, not seeking office. It won't prevent the imposition of the policy or affect the standing of the government.

    If the Government is winning this argument I'd hate to see what losing one would look like.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    Mr. Urquhart, one fears they'll axe BBC4, but keep The Voice, and other assorted nonsense.

    No the Voice is gone. The idiots at ITV have decided that they are willing to pay more money for it as a replacement for X-Factor.

    I don't really understand how the best of BBC3/BBC4 couldn't be just shown on BBC2. There is little need to repeat shows multiple times a week, given iplayer and dvr's etc...but thats what we get e.g. HIGNFY, then the extended version with stuff they didn't think was funny enough for a 30 min show a few days later.
    By the way, I don't know if anyone has been watching Channel 4's "The Jump", but they seem to be smashing up celebrities* at an alarming rate. They have lost 4 competitors in the past week, including Beth Tweddle, who has just taken a few steps after having two of her vertebrae fused with a bit of her hip, to fix a back broken in training...eek!

    * a term used loosely.....
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,602

    DavidL said:

    Would it be fair to assume that the choice of the new presenters was a committee decision?
    From one extreme to the other regarding PC
    I think it's a spoof.
    Yes. They haven't included The Really Fat Person to do reports on Mobility Scooters....
    I hear a certain big-hearted London former-charity worker may have some time on her hands...
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    MikeL said:

    We knew this anyway but we now have absolute 100% confirmation that the Boundary Review will now go ahead on the basis of 600 MPs.

    See the Government Response to the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee’s Eighth Report of Session 2014-15 (just published):

    "What next on the redrawing of parliamentary constituency boundaries?"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/499661/53993_Cm_9203_Print_Ready.pdf

    "At present, Parliamentary constituencies range in size from 22,000 to 108,000 electors. Without the implementation of these boundary reforms, the 2020-25 House of Commons would represent constituencies that are drawn up on electoral register data that is over 20 years’ old"

    But aren't we being told that attending to this issue is "gerrymandering"?
    That 22,000 one will stay won't it? Isn't it the Western Isles (or whatever the Gallic is for it)?
    Presumably, Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Western Isles as was) will keep that distinction of being the smallest, along with Orkney and Shetland. Both together would barely make two thirds of a new 600-seat sized constituency, but given the issue the MP has of getting around to represent the islands, it would be hard to make a case for smashing them together with a vast acreage of, say, Sutherland.
    Yes, I'd agree to an extent (I do think that 22000 is very much on the low side - it should be possible to include some of the Inner Hebrides without placing too much on the MP), but it's right that there is some consideration of constituency size.

    It just seemed odd to use it as a case for reform when the legislation then protects it from that reform!
    The 3 highland seats will remain undersized as well. This means the other 50-odd Scottish seats will have to a relatively higher number of votes on average than elsewhere
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    If I was forced to regularly work weekends I would certainly want a pay premium for doing so.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,602
    edited February 2016

    DavidL said:

    Would it be fair to assume that the choice of the new presenters was a committee decision?
    From one extreme to the other regarding PC
    I think it's a spoof.
    Oh good that line up looks dire
    It's not a spoof, but the midget chap, Gok Wan, and the wheelchair using athlete have been added for poetic license. Who are this bunch? One of them is either Barry Gibb or a very aged David Baddiel.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    DavidL said:

    Would it be fair to assume that the choice of the new presenters was a committee decision?
    From one extreme to the other regarding PC
    I think it's a spoof.
    Yes. They haven't included The Really Fat Person to do reports on Mobility Scooters....
    I hear a certain big-hearted London former-charity worker may have some time on her hands...
    The manufacturers would never see their vehicles again.
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    Mr. 30, Batmanjelly would be better off on The Jump.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,427
    900 scientists spread over numerous laboratories with years of results processed by a supercomputer manage to prove something anticipated by 1 guy before the invention of the electronic calculator.

    The human mind is surely the most astonishing thing in the known universe.
  • Options

    CD13 said:

    Mr Mark,

    "Huge science news - gravitational waves detected":

    It's a pity Einstein can't get a Nobel Prize for his work on General Relativity - too late now, of course.

    A posthumous award would be nice. Given that he never got one for relativity....
    I notice from the BBC article one of the lead scientists was eagerly saying that this was sure to get them the Nobel Prize. I am afraid this puts me right off scientists.
    Gravity is the warping of spacetime. Gravity waves do tend to suggest that there really is 'literally' a fabric, a substance, to 'empty' space itself - that space 'is' something.
    Question is, is there such a thing as a graviton?
  • Options
    Mr. L, don't forget it was the Ancient Greeks who reasoned their way to the existence of the atom.

    Mr. Flightpath, jein. If such desire for the prize leads to scientific advancement, isn't that a positive thing?
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Regarding this bet (on Hunt), the famous Unity Reshuffle may intervene.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    DavidL said:

    Would it be fair to assume that the choice of the new presenters was a committee decision?
    From one extreme to the other regarding PC
    I think it's a spoof.
    Yes. They haven't included The Really Fat Person to do reports on Mobility Scooters....
    I hear a certain big-hearted London former-charity worker may have some time on her hands...
    BRILLIANT! Can you imagine her and Clarkson on the same show? Now THAT I would watch on pay-per-view.....
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    900 scientists spread over numerous laboratories with years of results processed by a supercomputer manage to prove something anticipated by 1 guy before the invention of the electronic calculator.

    The human mind is surely the most astonishing thing in the known universe.

    Yes true enough, but the thing they are looking for is pretty damn ephemeral. So much so that Einstein himself suggested that it would be impossible to detect.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    DavidL said:

    900 scientists spread over numerous laboratories with years of results processed by a supercomputer manage to prove something anticipated by 1 guy before the invention of the electronic calculator.

    The human mind is surely the most astonishing thing in the known universe.

    Well, the human mind "anticipated" a whole pile of bollocks as well.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Sky: Irish journalists warned they are "under threat" from feuding gangland killers...
  • Options
    I am still scratching my head how that documentary of Batwomen didn't get any real reporting, it was just jaw dropping stuff.
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    CD13 said:

    Mr Mark,

    "Huge science news - gravitational waves detected":

    It's a pity Einstein can't get a Nobel Prize for his work on General Relativity - too late now, of course.

    That is a spectacular blot on the Committee's reputation, particularly given that Einstein lived so long. Yes, he won an award for other work but come on, it's one of the greatest works in Physics of all time.
  • Options

    If I was forced to regularly work weekends I would certainly want a pay premium for doing so.

    Cleaners? Shop assistants? Ambulance drivers? Football referees? Pub landlords? Web blog moderators?
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    CD13 said:

    Mr Mark,

    "Huge science news - gravitational waves detected":

    It's a pity Einstein can't get a Nobel Prize for his work on General Relativity - too late now, of course.

    A posthumous award would be nice. Given that he never got one for relativity....
    I notice from the BBC article one of the lead scientists was eagerly saying that this was sure to get them the Nobel Prize. I am afraid this puts me right off scientists.
    Gravity is the warping of spacetime. Gravity waves do tend to suggest that there really is 'literally' a fabric, a substance, to 'empty' space itself - that space 'is' something.
    Question is, is there such a thing as a graviton?
    Why does the hunger to win the Nobel put you off scientists?
  • Options

    CD13 said:

    Mr Mark,

    "Huge science news - gravitational waves detected":

    It's a pity Einstein can't get a Nobel Prize for his work on General Relativity - too late now, of course.

    A posthumous award would be nice. Given that he never got one for relativity....
    I notice from the BBC article one of the lead scientists was eagerly saying that this was sure to get them the Nobel Prize. I am afraid this puts me right off scientists.
    Gravity is the warping of spacetime. Gravity waves do tend to suggest that there really is 'literally' a fabric, a substance, to 'empty' space itself - that space 'is' something.
    Question is, is there such a thing as a graviton?
    There could be but we have no evidence for it. Two great theories of science are relativity and quantum mechanics. We havent worked out how to combine them. Gravity waves discovery fall entirely within relativity theory, but says nothing about combination mechanism. Gravitons are a proposed combination theory.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Mr. L, don't forget it was the Ancient Greeks who reasoned their way to the existence of the atom.

    Mr. Flightpath, jein. If such desire for the prize leads to scientific advancement, isn't that a positive thing?

    Except they thought of the atom as an indivisible physical thing when it is anything but.
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