FPT. Re Julian Assange. Cyclefree, TimT and David H
As I understand it the rape allegation refers to an offense that wouldn't be considered an offence in the UK (the non use of a condom). The reason he doesn't want to go to Sweden to contest it is because he believes there's a very real chance he'll be extradited from Sweden to the US where they DO want to charge him with publishing Wikileaks.
Unless my facts are wrong (wouldn't be the first time) this has nothing to do with avoiding facing rape charges but avoiding a lifetime in jail for publishing the truth
If he broke the law in order to obtain the material he published, then he is answerable for that. Just because he believes he is some sort of crusader, that does not put him above the law.
I am quite frankly fed up of his posturing. He is no saint. He knows he has broken laws and instead of fighting his case in court, he is hiding out playing the victim.
He was absolutely right to publish the information he had. We need more people willing to do so not less.
And he should be willing to stand up and be proud of what he did.
I think he was wrong to do so, but to skulk in the shadows undermines any values that he claims to represent. Especially as he has allegedly broken the law in Sweden and definitely broken the law in the UK (as a bail jumper)
Not at all. He's indeed willing to stand up and be proud of it. He is not willing to go to jail or worse for something he feels should not be a crime in the first place.
Of course that is separate from the sex crime allegations for which he should be treated like everyone else.
So stand up in court.
He's just avoiding the discussion. If you want to be a martyr, be a f**king martyr.
I'm sure that lots of criminals think they shouldn't be jailed for breaking the law.
FPT. Re Julian Assange. Cyclefree, TimT and David H
As I understand it the rape allegation refers to an offense that wouldn't be considered an offence in the UK (the non use of a condom). The reason he doesn't want to go to Sweden to contest it is because he believes there's a very real chance he'll be extradited from Sweden to the US where they DO want to charge him with publishing Wikileaks.
Unless my facts are wrong (wouldn't be the first time) this has nothing to do with avoiding facing rape charges but avoiding a lifetime in jail for publishing the truth
If he broke the law in order to obtain the material he published, then he is answerable for that. Just because he believes he is some sort of crusader, that does not put him above the law.
I am quite frankly fed up of his posturing. He is no saint. He knows he has broken laws and instead of fighting his case in court, he is hiding out playing the victim.
He was absolutely right to publish the information he had. We need more people willing to do so not less.
And he should be willing to stand up and be proud of what he did.
I think he was wrong to do so, but to skulk in the shadows undermines any values that he claims to represent. Especially as he has allegedly broken the law in Sweden and definitely broken the law in the UK (as a bail jumper)
Not at all. He's indeed willing to stand up and be proud of it. He is not willing to go to jail or worse for something he feels should not be a crime in the first place.
Of course that is separate from the sex crime allegations for which he should be treated like everyone else.
So stand up in court.
He's just avoiding the discussion. If you want to be a martyr, be a f**king martyr.
I'm sure that lots of criminals think they shouldn't be jailed for breaking the law.
To be fair to the lad, in a common law system the jury can refuse to convict an unjust law.
Somewhere out there there's a parallel universe in which David Cameron stuck by his original renegotiation demands and has just walked out of No.10 and announced to the TV cameras that sadly he got nowhere, that the EU isn't serious about reform and so, reluctantly, he and his cabinet will be campaigning to Leave in the forthcoming referendum. And Casino is a very happy bunny.
TBF I was undecided, now leaning to Leave. I haven't been rude about remain, because I don't really care about political minutiae
People that want to remain are as entitled to their opinion as those who want to leave, I just find it strange that some people say they are undecided and yet pounce on every perceived mistake LEAVE make
If nothing else, this should help let them know, if they honestly didn't already, that they want to remain
Its a bit like the old "flip a coin to help you make a decision" method... its heads you take out Dorothy or tails you take out Steve... you flip the coin it comes down tails.. if you want to say "best of three", you take out Dorothy
A couple of days ago Paddy Power were offering 5/2 against LEAVE, now they go 15/8 following YouGov's poll showing the Brexit supporters comfortably ahead - that's a 25% reduction in their odds. As I suggested at the time, this looked like a trading opportunity, at least. Expect the LEAVE odds to narrow further should there be other polls painting a similar picture.
Yes, I took your tip, thanks. Must be at least £2 richer...
Meanwhile a national poll has Sanders narrowing the gap to 2, possibly reflecting the latest debate (though the Guardian at least thought Clinton won ha):
TBF I was undecided, now leaning to Leave. I haven't been rude about remain, because I don't really care about political minutiae
Oh, I thought you were solid for Leave?
What's your hesitation?
Nah - I *want* to be able to support continued membership of the EU (I like the ideal on an effective cooperation of independent states), but they are giving me no reason to do so.
So I won't make up my mind until the actual day, but suspect I will end up as leave.
TBF I was undecided, now leaning to Leave. I haven't been rude about remain, because I don't really care about political minutiae
People that want to remain are as entitled to their opinion as those who want to leave, I just find it strange that some people say they are undecided and yet pounce on every perceived mistake LEAVE make
If nothing else, this should help let them know, if they honestly didn't already, that they want to remain
Its a bit like the old "flip a coin to help you make a decision" method... its heads you take out Dorothy or tails you take out Steve... you flip the coin it comes down tails.. if you want to say "best of three", you take out Dorothy
FPT. Re Julian Assange. Cyclefree, TimT and David H
As I understand it the rape allegation refers to an offense that wouldn't be considered an offence in the UK (the non use of a condom). The reason he doesn't want to go to Sweden to contest it is because he believes there's a very real chance he'll be extradited from Sweden to the US where they DO want to charge him with publishing Wikileaks.
Unless my facts are wrong (wouldn't be the first time) this has nothing to do with avoiding facing rape charges but avoiding a lifetime in jail for publishing the truth
Sweden, I believe, guaranteed not to extradite him to the US.
But frankly that doesn't matter.
The alleged victim of the crime deserves her day in court. Regardless of the potential risks for Assange.
Sweden did not guarantee not to extradite him to the US.
Indeed - Assange offered to go to Sweden if the authorities agreed not to transfer him to the United States, however, Swedish officials claimed that no such pledge could be made under the country’s legal system.
Let's get real. If you are being questioned about serious allegations you do not get to make demands of the authorities greater than the protections which the law gives you. The law is equal for all. What Assange wants is some special treatment for him because he believes he is special. The fact that he is behaving like a 4 year old with a permanent tantrum should not surprise us. The fact that a lot of seemingly intelligent people have fallen for this transparent guff should.
Assange would be the perfect spokesman for the 'Rhodes must fall' guff. They should sign him up.
TBF I was undecided, now leaning to Leave. I haven't been rude about remain, because I don't really care about political minutiae
People that want to remain are as entitled to their opinion as those who want to leave, I just find it strange that some people say they are undecided and yet pounce on every perceived mistake LEAVE make
If nothing else, this should help let them know, if they honestly didn't already, that they want to remain
Its a bit like the old "flip a coin to help you make a decision" method... its heads you take out Dorothy or tails you take out Steve... you flip the coin it comes down tails.. if you want to say "best of three", you take out Dorothy
Rubbish. Leave is not making 'perceived' mistakes. They're making hilarious howlers. Big-footed crunching, unprofessional howlers.
What you don't seem to understand about many undecideds (such as myself) is that the referendum question is not at the core of our being. We are not true believers as you are. Whether we vote out or in will probably not make a massive amount of difference to my life, at least for a few years. Many others will feel the same.
TBF I was undecided, now leaning to Leave. I haven't been rude about remain, because I don't really care about political minutiae
Oh, I thought you were solid for Leave?
What's your hesitation?
Nah - I *want* to be able to support continued membership of the EU (I like the ideal on an effective cooperation of independent states), but they are giving me no reason to do so.
So I won't make up my mind until the actual day, but suspect I will end up as leave.
Thanks for your honesty. I think we can and will achieve that cooperation of independent states too, but only from outside the EU.
TBF I was undecided, now leaning to Leave. I haven't been rude about remain, because I don't really care about political minutiae
People that want to remain are as entitled to their opinion as those who want to leave, I just find it strange that some people say they are undecided and yet pounce on every perceived mistake LEAVE make
If nothing else, this should help let them know, if they honestly didn't already, that they want to remain
Its a bit like the old "flip a coin to help you make a decision" method... its heads you take out Dorothy or tails you take out Steve... you flip the coin it comes down tails.. if you want to say "best of three", you take out Dorothy
Rubbish. Leave is not making 'perceived' mistakes. They're making hilarious howlers. Big-footed crunching, unprofessional howlers.
What you don't seem to understand about many undecideds (such as myself) is that the referendum question is not at the core of our being. We are not true believers as you are. Whether we vote out or in will probably not make a massive amount of difference to my life, at least for a few years. Many others will feel the same.
Wasn't referring to you, I wouldnt know what you thought about it
But people that really don't care wouldn't be bothered to comment either way... No one else I know has ever mentioned it and I doubt they know that it is even on the cards
TBF I was undecided, now leaning to Leave. I haven't been rude about remain, because I don't really care about political minutiae
Oh, I thought you were solid for Leave?
What's your hesitation?
Nah - I *want* to be able to support continued membership of the EU (I like the ideal on an effective cooperation of independent states), but they are giving me no reason to do so.
So I won't make up my mind until the actual day, but suspect I will end up as leave.
Thanks for your honesty. I think we can and will achieve that cooperation of independent states too, but only from outside the EU.
I hope whoever the next Conservative leader is (Should we vote out) is better at negotiating than dear old Dave appears to be
Meanwhile a national poll has Sanders narrowing the gap to 2, possibly reflecting the latest debate (though the Guardian at least thought Clinton won ha):
TBF I was undecided, now leaning to Leave. I haven't been rude about remain, because I don't really care about political minutiae
People that want to remain are as entitled to their opinion as those who want to leave, I just find it strange that some people say they are undecided and yet pounce on every perceived mistake LEAVE make
If nothing else, this should help let them know, if they honestly didn't already, that they want to remain
Its a bit like the old "flip a coin to help you make a decision" method... its heads you take out Dorothy or tails you take out Steve... you flip the coin it comes down tails.. if you want to say "best of three", you take out Dorothy
Rubbish. Leave is not making 'perceived' mistakes. They're making hilarious howlers. Big-footed crunching, unprofessional howlers.
What you don't seem to understand about many undecideds (such as myself) is that the referendum question is not at the core of our being. We are not true believers as you are. Whether we vote out or in will probably not make a massive amount of difference to my life, at least for a few years. Many others will feel the same.
Wasn't referring to you, I wouldnt know what you thought about it
But people that really don't care wouldn't be bothered to even comment either way... No one else I know has even mentioned it and I doubt they know that it is even on the cards
Sam, we're on politicalbetting.com - you and TP were contemplating a bet on Isabelle's buttons last night.
The EU referendum is definitely a 'thing', so I think you expectations of undecideds to not comment on it is a bit odd
Meanwhile a national poll has Sanders narrowing the gap to 2, possibly reflecting the latest debate (though the Guardian at least thought Clinton won ha):
TBF I was undecided, now leaning to Leave. I haven't been rude about remain, because I don't really care about political minutiae
People that want to remain are as entitled to their opinion as those who want to leave, I just find it strange that some people say they are undecided and yet pounce on every perceived mistake LEAVE make
If nothing else, this should help let them know, if they honestly didn't already, that they want to remain
Its a bit like the old "flip a coin to help you make a decision" method... its heads you take out Dorothy or tails you take out Steve... you flip the coin it comes down tails.. if you want to say "best of three", you take out Dorothy
Rubbish. Leave is not making 'perceived' mistakes. They're making hilarious howlers. Big-footed crunching, unprofessional howlers.
What you don't seem to understand about many undecideds (such as myself) is that the referendum question is not at the core of our being. We are not true believers as you are. Whether we vote out or in will probably not make a massive amount of difference to my life, at least for a few years. Many others will feel the same.
Wasn't referring to you, I wouldnt know what you thought about it
But people that really don't care wouldn't be bothered to even comment either way... No one else I know has even mentioned it and I doubt they know that it is even on the cards
Sam, we're on politicalbetting.com - you and TP were contemplating a bet on Isabelle's buttons last night.
The EU referendum is definitely a 'thing', so I think you expectations of undecideds to not comment on it is a bit odd
Really? I barely commented on the Scottish Referendum, because I wasn't really interested, and I v rarely comment on voting systems, the economy, who will be next Labour leader, who won PMQs etc because I don't care
I just bang on about Immigration and the mighty Enoch
This Oxford lad should maybe take his undoubted talent to Africa and try to sort out some of the problems there..
Indeed – If he wishes to confront racism head on, then why not start with Mugabe’s Zimbabwe, rather than focusing on 150 years ago and which no longer exists.
FPT. Re Julian Assange. Cyclefree, TimT and David H
As I understand it the rape allegation refers to an offense that wouldn't be considered an offence in the UK (the non use of a condom). The reason he doesn't want to go to Sweden to contest it is because he believes there's a very real chance he'll be extradited from Sweden to the US where they DO want to charge him with publishing Wikileaks.
Unless my facts are wrong (wouldn't be the first time) this has nothing to do with avoiding facing rape charges but avoiding a lifetime in jail for publishing the truth
Sweden, I believe, guaranteed not to extradite him to the US.
But frankly that doesn't matter.
The alleged victim of the crime deserves her day in court. Regardless of the potential risks for Assange.
Sweden did not guarantee not to extradite him to the US.
Indeed - Assange offered to go to Sweden if the authorities agreed not to transfer him to the United States, however, Swedish officials claimed that no such pledge could be made under the country’s legal system.
Let's get real. If you are being questioned about serious allegations you do not get to make demands of the authorities greater than the protections which the law gives you. The law is equal for all. What Assange wants is some special treatment for him because he believes he is special. The fact that he is behaving like a 4 year old with a permanent tantrum should not surprise us. The fact that a lot of seemingly intelligent people have fallen for this transparent guff should.
And therein lies the problem since the Swedes have admitted there have been dozens of cases both before and since where the prosecutors have gone to other countries to interview suspects. Indeed they were recently severely criticised by a Swedish appeals court for inexplicably not having done that in this case.
If Leave wins perhaps its campaign will be studied as a model and setting up multiple groups that won't talk to each other will be the new "economy stupid".
If Remain wins will naming yourself after a fatal disease, forgetting your name, and randomly inserting the word "million" after numbers come into fashion?
If Leave wins perhaps its campaign will be studied as a model and setting up multiple groups that won't talk to each other will be the new "economy stupid".
If Remain wins will naming yourself after a fatal disease, forgetting your name, and randomly inserting the word "million" after numbers come into fashion?
Don't forget just making up random numbers for how well off the EU makes us.
The new BSE favourite is every family is £3,000 better off thanks to our EU membership. The figure came from a report, which came from another report, which came from another report, which came from another report, which came from a report which has nothing to do with the EU.
If Leave wins perhaps its campaign will be studied as a model and setting up multiple groups that won't talk to each other will be the new "economy stupid".
If Remain wins will naming yourself after a fatal disease, forgetting your name, and randomly inserting the word "million" after numbers come into fashion?
Don't forget just making up random numbers for how well off the EU makes us.
The new BSE favourite is every family is £3,000 better off thanks to our EU membership. The figure came from a report, which came from another report, which came from another report, which came from another report, which came from a report which has nothing to do with the EU.
That's what I was thinking of. Rose managed to insert "million" after it. Iirc he also said "Britain" when he meant "the EU".
Poor Assange, if only he was a senior politician being accused of historic sexual abuse by a common citizen, I somehow feel PB would be giving him a much easier ride.
TBF I was undecided, now leaning to Leave. I haven't been rude about remain, because I don't really care about political minutiae
People that want to remain are as entitled to their opinion as those who want to leave, I just find it strange that some people say they are undecided and yet pounce on every perceived mistake LEAVE make
If nothing else, this should help let them know, if they honestly didn't already, that they want to remain
Its a bit like the old "flip a coin to help you make a decision" method... its heads you take out Dorothy or tails you take out Steve... you flip the coin it comes down tails.. if you want to say "best of three", you take out Dorothy
Rubbish. Leave is not making 'perceived' mistakes. They're making hilarious howlers. Big-footed crunching, unprofessional howlers.
What you don't seem to understand about many undecideds (such as myself) is that the referendum question is not at the core of our being. We are not true believers as you are. Whether we vote out or in will probably not make a massive amount of difference to my life, at least for a few years. Many others will feel the same.
Wasn't referring to you, I wouldnt know what you thought about it
But people that really don't care wouldn't be bothered to comment either way... No one else I know has ever mentioned it and I doubt they know that it is even on the cards
Saying people 'really don't care' is not the same as saying they're not true believers. There are plenty of reasons to make comments about the campaigns even if you are not massively invested in the result. Especially on a site such as PB.com.
And you must admit the last few days of Leave's campaign have been funny. And yes, I'd say the same if it was Remain's campaign that was having the problems, because I'm not massively invested in the result.
I think the problem with many leavers is they're acting like true religious zealots. Anyone with a contrary view is EVIL!, whilst anyone undecided is either a liar or a fool.
A couple of days ago Paddy Power were offering 5/2 against LEAVE, now they go 15/8 following YouGov's poll showing the Brexit supporters comfortably ahead - that's a 25% reduction in their odds. As I suggested at the time, this looked like a trading opportunity, at least. Expect the LEAVE odds to narrow further should there be other polls painting a similar picture.
Yes, I took your tip, thanks. Must be at least £2 richer...
If Leave wins perhaps its campaign will be studied as a model and setting up multiple groups that won't talk to each other will be the new "economy stupid".
If Remain wins will naming yourself after a fatal disease, forgetting your name, and randomly inserting the word "million" after numbers come into fashion?
With the Scottish referendum the basics were simple (in or out). Yet that campaign got utterly bogged down in rival facts and figures on what might have been a purely emotional question.
In the EU referendum, there is little idea what 'leave' or 'remain' will actually mean, hence the many discussions on here about the various groupings.
Given all this uncertainty, both campaigns have to rely on emotion rather than fact. And sadly both campaigns seem unsuited for this. But after a rocky start remain at least seem half competent.
It's make or break for Kasich ..... he really needs to come second or a very close third, which probably means winning at least 15% of the vote. That looks unlikely - shame because he's an impressive candidate.
If Leave wins perhaps its campaign will be studied as a model and setting up multiple groups that won't talk to each other will be the new "economy stupid".
If Remain wins will naming yourself after a fatal disease, forgetting your name, and randomly inserting the word "million" after numbers come into fashion?
With the Scottish referendum the basics were simple (in or out). Yet that campaign got utterly bogged down in rival facts and figures on what might have been a purely emotional question.
In the EU referendum, there is little idea what 'leave' or 'remain' will actually mean, hence the many discussions on here about the various groupings.
Given all this uncertainty, both campaigns have to rely on emotion rather than fact. And sadly both campaigns seem unsuited for this. But after a rocky start remain at least seem half competent.
Remain seem at least half competent? Interesting. In what way? Can you name one single dazzling performance by a Remain campaigner, one speech, one article, one solitary sentence which has demonstrably affected the public mood in favour of IN?
No. You can't. All we've seen is Stuart Rose mumbling and fumbling, Alan Johnson saying"we should listen to the prime minister because he's the prime minister," and that same prime minister bringing home a "whole new relationship with the EU" which turns out to be an extra go on the Berlaymont pooltable, every second Friday, if the French head home before 10pm.
Indeed, such is the brilliance of this fantastically competent Remain campaign, the PM's deal has driven LEAVE to its highest polling in many months.
Well for one thing, I (and others on here) have been receiving leaflets from the Remain campaign. That's more than any of the Leave groups appear to have managed.
The Leave campaign appear to be waiting for events to win it for them, and even then fighting against it. In fact that'll probably in it for them, but it won't be down to the quality of their campaigning.
Comments
Mr. F, the base 10 number system is clearly indicative of the Judeo-Christian cultural hegemony following the 10 Commandments.
And how about this one: who brings a gun to a boxing weigh-in?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35503937
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/05/un-julian-assange-wikileaks
What's your hesitation?
That said the Rhodes Must Fall thing had gotten me into enough trouble already.
Hmm I doubt he's worried about doing (2 years max ?) bird in a Swedish prison, it's the US supermax that's keeping him awake at night.
One can dream.
If nothing else, this should help let them know, if they honestly didn't already, that they want to remain
Its a bit like the old "flip a coin to help you make a decision" method... its heads you take out Dorothy or tails you take out Steve... you flip the coin it comes down tails.. if you want to say "best of three", you take out Dorothy
Meanwhile a national poll has Sanders narrowing the gap to 2, possibly reflecting the latest debate (though the Guardian at least thought Clinton won ha):
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html
One poll, take with caution, etc.
So I won't make up my mind until the actual day, but suspect I will end up as leave.
What you don't seem to understand about many undecideds (such as myself) is that the referendum question is not at the core of our being. We are not true believers as you are. Whether we vote out or in will probably not make a massive amount of difference to my life, at least for a few years. Many others will feel the same.
But people that really don't care wouldn't be bothered to comment either way... No one else I know has ever mentioned it and I doubt they know that it is even on the cards
Still, definitely one to watch.
The EU referendum is definitely a 'thing', so I think you expectations of undecideds to not comment on it is a bit odd
I just bang on about Immigration and the mighty Enoch
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/05/milk-tray-ad-romantic-horror-women
If Remain wins will naming yourself after a fatal disease, forgetting your name, and randomly inserting the word "million" after numbers come into fashion?
“You will not find that I ever changed a view or a vote because of any donation that I ever received,” she said.
... making it sound as though she not only took cash from dodgy donors hoping to get favours, but also defrauded them by not delivering.
The new BSE favourite is every family is £3,000 better off thanks to our EU membership. The figure came from a report, which came from another report, which came from another report, which came from another report, which came from a report which has nothing to do with the EU.
Trump 29
Rubio 19
Kasich 13
Bush 10
Cruz 7
Christie 5
Fiorina 4
Carson 4
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/nh/new_hampshire_republican_presidential_primary-3350.html
WBUR/MassINC Trump 29, Rubio 12, Cruz 12, Kasich 9, Bush 9, Christie 6, Fiorina 8, Carson 4
Boston Globe/Suffolk Trump 29, Rubio 19, Cruz 7, Kasich 13, Bush 10, Christie 5, Fiorina 4, Carson 4
Trump seems to be fading, but while the field remains so wide, he can afford to.
And you must admit the last few days of Leave's campaign have been funny. And yes, I'd say the same if it was Remain's campaign that was having the problems, because I'm not massively invested in the result.
I think the problem with many leavers is they're acting like true religious zealots. Anyone with a contrary view is EVIL!, whilst anyone undecided is either a liar or a fool.
In the EU referendum, there is little idea what 'leave' or 'remain' will actually mean, hence the many discussions on here about the various groupings.
Given all this uncertainty, both campaigns have to rely on emotion rather than fact. And sadly both campaigns seem unsuited for this. But after a rocky start remain at least seem half competent.
new thread
New Thread New Thread
Joshua Rozenberg — How did the UN get it so wrong on Julian Assange?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/05/un-julian-assange-wikileaks</blockquote
Just watch the interview on BBC of one of the clowns that made the decision and you won't be surprised.
Pure comedy gold but further diminishes what's left of the UN's reputation.
The Leave campaign appear to be waiting for events to win it for them, and even then fighting against it. In fact that'll probably in it for them, but it won't be down to the quality of their campaigning.