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SystemSystem Posts: 11,687
edited February 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » You’ve read the blogs, listened to the podcasts – now watch the PB/Polling Matters TV Show

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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,632
    I've just had a free lunch...
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    Huzzah Keiran. I love this new innovation.

    The First Rule of Tautlology Club is The First Rule of Tautology Club
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    I've just had a free lunch...

    If it has already finished, it is not much of a free lunch...
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    What is the logo - the UK? Is UKIP consigned to some Dogger Bank constituency?
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    Eek - OGH is rapidly turning into Iain Dale..! - in a good way of course :lol:
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Cameron is either poorly informed or is deliberately deceiving parliament. He has once again claimed that Norway pays more per head to the EU than the UK does.

    The UK's net contribution is £153 per head whilst Norway's is £68.

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm160203/debtext/160203-0001.htm#16020344000001
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    UMass/Lowell (NH) 1-3/Feb

    Trump 36
    Rubio 15
    Cruz 14
    Bush 8

    would result in 14,3,3,0 delegates
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    RodCrosby said:

    UMass/Lowell (NH) 1-3/Feb

    Trump 36
    Rubio 15
    Cruz 14
    Bush 8

    would result in 14,3,3,0 delegates

    Most importantly, it would result in Rubio rushing out to 3s for the nomination and Trump moving in to 1.8
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    rcs1000 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    UMass/Lowell (NH) 1-3/Feb

    Trump 36
    Rubio 15
    Cruz 14
    Bush 8

    would result in 14,3,3,0 delegates

    Most importantly, it would result in Rubio rushing out to 3s for the nomination and Trump moving in to 1.8
    I certainly hope so!
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,816



    But one point to bear in mind is that the centre of politics moves too. The social values of today's Conservatives are way to the left of where Labour was when today's pensioners were twenty-somethings, for example.

    That's a good point. But I think that leftism and rightism (to use lazy labels) are attitudes of mind rather than specific policies. and they move with the spectrum, always a bit left or right of the current consensus. For instance, when gay couples had no legal standing I used to think that civil partnerships were clearly desirable while gay marriage would probably be a provocation too far. 10 years later civil partnerships were in place, I'd moved on to feel that obviously we should allow gay marriage. Right-wingers, conversely, often resisted civil partnerships, but in due course decided they were fine, it was gay marriage that was bad.
    FPT: the curse of the New Thread always hits a windbag like me!

    Your example gives a good lesson in how old voters can take their cue from later generations as well. Shifting social attitudes in younger people reached a tipping point, that allowed civil partnerships to be contemplated, which in turn further softened attitudes amongst older people (very many 70 year olds now would have a more liberal attitude to homosexuality, certainly than 70 year olds a generation ago and probably than themselves when they were 30 or 40), which in turn made gay marriage a natural thing. As most of us would label, a virtuous circle.

    I wonder if campaigns, particularly to legalise drugs, often miss a trick in banging on, for e.g., about the current home secretary ignoring the scientific evidence &c &c. Although theirs is clearly an issue of choice rather than nature, the home secretary will never invest that kind of political capital for a small and fairly hidden societal gain in the face of tooth and nail opposition from a large part of the public, whilst flouncy scientists naively think a sheet of data somehow trumps the needs of realpolitik. The campaigners, perhaps utilising the "ex-home secretaries suddenly in favour of reform the very day they leave office" club, need to do much more ground work at a societal level first if they want to achieve the change they crave.
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    Huzzah Keiran. I love this new innovation.

    The First Rule of Tautlology Club is The First Rule of Tautology Club

    As opposed to the First Rule of the Pedantics Club which in fact is only the First Rule because it is numbered sequentially ahead of all the other rules, In all other respects...

    I have to say however that the First Rule of the Obsessives Club is there for a purpose which should never be forgotten and one which we should always be determined to follow.
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,816

    What is the logo - the UK? Is UKIP consigned to some Dogger Bank constituency?

    UKIP representing the world's largest offshore windfarm, chock full of migratory (i.e. immigrant) seabirds. Now that would be an interesting constituency...
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    rcs1000 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    UMass/Lowell (NH) 1-3/Feb

    Trump 36
    Rubio 15
    Cruz 14
    Bush 8

    would result in 14,3,3,0 delegates

    Most importantly, it would result in Rubio rushing out to 3s for the nomination and Trump moving in to 1.8
    I don't think Betfair will move like that for a long while, and until Trump looks very solid.

    It seems to have made up it's mind that it should be Rubio and therefore is very likely to be Rubio.
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    Scottish EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-3)
    Leave: 21% (+3)
    (via TNS-BMRB / 06 - 25 Jan)
    Changes from September.
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    Sleazy broken SNP on the slide and SCon surge all in one.

    Scottish parliament voting intention (const.):
    SNP: 57% (-1)
    LAB: 21% (-)
    CON: 17% (+5)
    LDEM: 3% (-1)
    (via TNS / 06 - 25 Jan)

    Scottish parliament voting intention (list):
    SNP: 52% (-2)
    LAB: 19% (-1)
    CON: 17% (+5)
    LDEM: 6% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-3)
    (via TNS / 06 - 25 Jan)
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    rcs1000 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    UMass/Lowell (NH) 1-3/Feb

    Trump 36
    Rubio 15
    Cruz 14
    Bush 8

    would result in 14,3,3,0 delegates

    Most importantly, it would result in Rubio rushing out to 3s for the nomination and Trump moving in to 1.8
    I don't think Betfair will move like that for a long while, and until Trump looks very solid.

    It seems to have made up it's mind that it should be Rubio and therefore is very likely to be Rubio.
    Music to my betting ears.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Scottish EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-3)
    Leave: 21% (+3)
    (via TNS-BMRB / 06 - 25 Jan)
    Changes from September.


    Even Scotland's moving towards Leave.
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    Scottish EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-3)
    Leave: 21% (+3)
    (via TNS-BMRB / 06 - 25 Jan)
    Changes from September.


    Even Scotland's moving towards Leave.
    In the same way Germany moved towards victory during the Ardennes Offensive.

    Still 2:1 in favour of Remain in North Britain
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    rcs1000 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    UMass/Lowell (NH) 1-3/Feb

    Trump 36
    Rubio 15
    Cruz 14
    Bush 8

    would result in 14,3,3,0 delegates

    Most importantly, it would result in Rubio rushing out to 3s for the nomination and Trump moving in to 1.8
    I don't think Betfair will move like that for a long while, and until Trump looks very solid.

    It seems to have made up it's mind that it should be Rubio and therefore is very likely to be Rubio.
    Personally, I think the market reflects three things:

    1. Rubio is considered the most electable Republican
    2. Rubio was understated in the polls in Iowa
    3. Rubio is considered to have "The Big Mo"

    If the NH poll is correct, and there is a 20 point lead for Trump over Rubio, then the "Rubio is understated" argument goes away, as does "the Big Mo". People would suddenly start to believe that Trump was going to win three of the first four states. It would also suddenly make it clear that Rubio still has a mountain to climb.

    On the other hand, if the result in Trump 28, Rubio 23, then I think the current odds continue.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,465
    Very professional show all. It needs a jazzy theme tune!
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    Very professional show all. It needs a jazzy theme tune!

    As the PBer with the best musical taste, I shall come up with a jazzy theme tune.
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    I'm looking forward to watching this later.
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    I'm betting against Rubio at present prices. He may stand a decent chance but I can't see how he's heavy odds-on favourite on the information we currently possess.

    Disclaimer: I claim absolutely no expertise in US political matters.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited February 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    UMass/Lowell (NH) 1-3/Feb

    Trump 36
    Rubio 15
    Cruz 14
    Bush 8

    would result in 14,3,3,0 delegates

    Most importantly, it would result in Rubio rushing out to 3s for the nomination and Trump moving in to 1.8
    I don't think Betfair will move like that for a long while, and until Trump looks very solid.

    It seems to have made up it's mind that it should be Rubio and therefore is very likely to be Rubio.
    Personally, I think the market reflects three things:

    1. Rubio is considered the most electable Republican
    2. Rubio was understated in the polls in Iowa
    3. Rubio is considered to have "The Big Mo"

    If the NH poll is correct, and there is a 20 point lead for Trump over Rubio, then the "Rubio is understated" argument goes away, as does "the Big Mo". People would suddenly start to believe that Trump was going to win three of the first four states. It would also suddenly make it clear that Rubio still has a mountain to climb.

    On the other hand, if the result in Trump 28, Rubio 23, then I think the current odds continue.
    The polls were correct for Iowa (Sort of & apparently) one of the networks checked their numbers against late deciders, and explained away the difference like that.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    UMass/Lowell (NH) 1-3/Feb

    Trump 36
    Rubio 15
    Cruz 14
    Bush 8

    would result in 14,3,3,0 delegates

    Most importantly, it would result in Rubio rushing out to 3s for the nomination and Trump moving in to 1.8
    I don't think Betfair will move like that for a long while, and until Trump looks very solid.

    It seems to have made up it's mind that it should be Rubio and therefore is very likely to be Rubio.
    Personally, I think the market reflects three things:

    1. Rubio is considered the most electable Republican
    2. Rubio was understated in the polls in Iowa
    3. Rubio is considered to have "The Big Mo"

    If the NH poll is correct, and there is a 20 point lead for Trump over Rubio, then the "Rubio is understated" argument goes away, as does "the Big Mo". People would suddenly start to believe that Trump was going to win three of the first four states. It would also suddenly make it clear that Rubio still has a mountain to climb.

    On the other hand, if the result in Trump 28, Rubio 23, then I think the current odds continue.
    The polls were correct for Iowa (Sort of & apparently) one of the networks checked their numbers against late deciders, and explained away the difference like that.
    Hmmm: I think the truth is that saying "Trump" to a nice lady on the phone is a little different from putting a little "x' in the box next to Trump's name.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Scottish EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-3)
    Leave: 21% (+3)
    (via TNS-BMRB / 06 - 25 Jan)
    Changes from September.


    Even Scotland's moving towards Leave.
    In the same way Germany moved towards victory during the Ardennes Offensive.

    Still 2:1 in favour of Remain in North Britain

    I guess they would rather be ruled by Brussels than London.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I guess they would rather be ruled by Brussels than London.

    Yes, it's only the English they hate...
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    Scottish EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-3)
    Leave: 21% (+3)
    (via TNS-BMRB / 06 - 25 Jan)
    Changes from September.


    Even Scotland's moving towards Leave.
    In the same way Germany moved towards victory during the Ardennes Offensive.

    Still 2:1 in favour of Remain in North Britain

    I guess they would rather be ruled by Brussels than London.
    Nonsense. The IndyRef showed they preferred to be governed by the Tories in Westminster. Huzzah for the sensible Scots.
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    Blimey! Tories imminently going to overtake the machine politics lefty tramp terrorist party in Jockland. Does not compute.
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    A very interesting article on the GOP race, arguing (inter alia) that we shouldn't write off Ted Cruz:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/04/opinion/campaign-stops/the-plausibility-of-ted-cruz.html?ref=opinion
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Patrick said:

    Blimey! Tories imminently going to overtake the machine politics lefty tramp terrorist party in Jockland. Does not compute.

    @HughHenryMSP: The Lady's not for turning. Nicola Sturgeon at FMQ's is defending her cuts & refusal to increase tax. Shoulder to shoulder with the Tories.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    A very interesting article on the GOP race, arguing (inter alia) that we shouldn't write off Ted Cruz:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/04/opinion/campaign-stops/the-plausibility-of-ted-cruz.html?ref=opinion

    It skates over the real problem: Super Tuesday is as good as it gets for Cruz. All his states are early and proportional.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2016
    Strangely enough, I actually think the Iowa result was a SETBACK for Rubio.

    I think, for him to have a realistic path to the nomination, he needed Cruz to be weakened. All the signs are that Rubio was the second choice of the evangelical vote, due to his wholesome image and "sound" positions on abortion, gay rights, etc. Had he managed to unite the evangelicals with the "country club"/Establishment Republican vote, he could've had a coalition big enough to overcome Trump's blue-collar voters.

    On the other hand, now that Cruz is going to be seen as a strong contender until at least Super Tuesday, it puts the evangelicals out of Rubio's reach, and doesn't give him a great deal of prospects for primary wins.
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    A very interesting article on the GOP race, arguing (inter alia) that we shouldn't write off Ted Cruz:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/04/opinion/campaign-stops/the-plausibility-of-ted-cruz.html?ref=opinion

    The fact that others feel it necessary to attack him gives credence to that theory.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @politicshome: Andy Burnham and Sir Keir Starmer to launch Labour 'immigration listening tour' https://t.co/KH72MOVl91 https://t.co/wPIUyVTJNA
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Cruz needs Carson to get thumped in New Hampshire ideally. And then Carson to forgive him for the Iowa shenanigans.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,343
    RodCrosby said:

    UMass/Lowell (NH) 1-3/Feb

    Trump 36
    Rubio 15
    Cruz 14
    Bush 8

    would result in 14,3,3,0 delegates

    What's striking about that poll (with the usual caveats) is that all three perceived "winners" from Iowa are up 5 points and everyone else is down, suggesting a degree of polarisation, though not at Trump's expense.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/nh/new_hampshire_republican_presidential_primary-3350.html

    The parallel Democrat poll shows Sanders up on the previous poll though down compared with the last poll from the same institute - hard to read, but Sanders still clearly going to win in NH, as Clinton has conceded in advance. A new South Carolina poll would be handy.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/nh/new_hampshire_democratic_presidential_primary-3351.html
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    rcs1000 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    UMass/Lowell (NH) 1-3/Feb

    Trump 36
    Rubio 15
    Cruz 14
    Bush 8

    would result in 14,3,3,0 delegates

    Most importantly, it would result in Rubio rushing out to 3s for the nomination and Trump moving in to 1.8
    I don't think Betfair will move like that for a long while, and until Trump looks very solid.

    It seems to have made up it's mind that it should be Rubio and therefore is very likely to be Rubio.
    The UK betting markets have been overrating Rubio for months. If he scores a second in NH, I'd expect him to hold reasonably firm, even if he's a long way behind Trump. Another third though, behind Trump and Cruz again, would pose questions as to what the fuss is about.

    I'd like to see a little more NH post-Iowa polling but if Trump's numbers are still holding up then this weekend will be a good time to back the Donald for the nomination.
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    Patrick said:

    Blimey! Tories imminently going to overtake the machine politics lefty tramp terrorist party in Jockland. Does not compute.

    Machine politics only works when you can dole out the prizes. A political machine in opposition is an exercise in futility. Scottish Labour now has a crisis of purpose and of identity - though Dugdale's income tax move is a sound tactical move.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Harper (R) had minnows Kasich and Bush up above 10. Annoyingly neither Harper (R) or UMass did Iowa polling.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    rcs1000 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    UMass/Lowell (NH) 1-3/Feb

    Trump 36
    Rubio 15
    Cruz 14
    Bush 8

    would result in 14,3,3,0 delegates

    Most importantly, it would result in Rubio rushing out to 3s for the nomination and Trump moving in to 1.8
    I don't think Betfair will move like that for a long while, and until Trump looks very solid.

    It seems to have made up it's mind that it should be Rubio and therefore is very likely to be Rubio.
    The UK betting markets have been overrating Rubio for months. If he scores a second in NH, I'd expect him to hold reasonably firm, even if he's a long way behind Trump. Another third though, behind Trump and Cruz again, would pose questions as to what the fuss is about.

    I'd like to see a little more NH post-Iowa polling but if Trump's numbers are still holding up then this weekend will be a good time to back the Donald for the nomination.
    If Rubio wins New Hampshire next week,we'll be comparing your prescience to Paddy Ashdown's!
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited February 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Harper (R) had minnows Kasich and Bush up above 10. Annoyingly neither Harper (R) or UMass did Iowa polling.

    It's a poll of only 425 respondents, though, which with this number of runners means you can't really conclude anything too detailed about the support for individual candidates.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe has apologised to Diana Brittan for the way the Met handled a false rape allegation against the late Leon Brittan
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    MP_SE said:

    Cameron is either poorly informed or is deliberately deceiving parliament. He has once again claimed that Norway pays more per head to the EU than the UK does.

    The UK's net contribution is £153 per head whilst Norway's is £68.

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm160203/debtext/160203-0001.htm#16020344000001

    Cast iron Dave Cameron economical with the actualité, surely not.
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    rcs1000 said:

    A very interesting article on the GOP race, arguing (inter alia) that we shouldn't write off Ted Cruz:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/04/opinion/campaign-stops/the-plausibility-of-ted-cruz.html?ref=opinion

    It skates over the real problem: Super Tuesday is as good as it gets for Cruz. All his states are early and proportional.
    That don't matter if the redder states have more delegates, and the bluer states are split betweeb Trump and Rubio.
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    LennonLennon Posts: 1,733
    Danny565 said:

    Strangely enough, I actually think the Iowa result was a SETBACK for Rubio.

    I think, for him to have a realistic path to the nomination, he needed Cruz to be weakened. All the signs are that Rubio was the second choice of the evangelical vote, due to his wholesome image and "sound" positions on abortion, gay rights, etc. Had he managed to unite the evangelicals with the "country club"/Establishment Republican vote, he could've had a coalition big enough to overcome Trump's blue-collar voters.

    On the other hand, now that Cruz is going to be seen as a strong contender until at least Super Tuesday, it puts the evangelicals out of Rubio's reach, and doesn't give him a great deal of prospects for primary wins.

    Slightly related - which of Cruz, Rubio (or Trump I guess) gets the Mormon vote if any? Thinking ahead we have New Hampshire, then South Carolina and then the last one before Super Tuesday - Nevada. An unexpectedly good showing here is the last opportunity for 'momentum' before Super Tuesday.
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    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    UMass/Lowell (NH) 1-3/Feb

    Trump 36
    Rubio 15
    Cruz 14
    Bush 8

    would result in 14,3,3,0 delegates

    Most importantly, it would result in Rubio rushing out to 3s for the nomination and Trump moving in to 1.8
    I don't think Betfair will move like that for a long while, and until Trump looks very solid.

    It seems to have made up it's mind that it should be Rubio and therefore is very likely to be Rubio.
    The UK betting markets have been overrating Rubio for months. If he scores a second in NH, I'd expect him to hold reasonably firm, even if he's a long way behind Trump. Another third though, behind Trump and Cruz again, would pose questions as to what the fuss is about.

    I'd like to see a little more NH post-Iowa polling but if Trump's numbers are still holding up then this weekend will be a good time to back the Donald for the nomination.
    If Rubio wins New Hampshire next week,we'll be comparing your prescience to Paddy Ashdown's!
    True.

    But Rubio can't win without a collapse in the Trump vote. Now, it may be that that will happen but a lot of people seem to have made their mind up on him in NH and I can't really see why that would change now. It's not just Trump who would likely turn his fire on Rubio if the Floridan starts to poll very well, Cruz will too. How well Rubio will stand up to negative campaigning remains to be seen; there's not been all that much so far, I think.

    My impression from Iowa is that Rubio was the fortunate beneficiary of Cruz's vote migrating after the Canada birth issue, rather than it being a pro-Rubio prompt. That might not matter; others have made good on a lucky break before and being in the right place at the right time matters, and he was. But he's still an very long way back.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited February 2016
    The level of smugness from the REMAIN camp is approaching IOS levels of self-satisfaction. I hope for their sakes the opinion polls are right, and their wishful thinking about DK voters is true, rather than them deciding to stay at home. All sorts of people appear sure on the basis of actually not a whole lot of trustworthy polling, and a lot of wishful thinking that they know who speaks for who, who is going to vote in and out, and who has it in the bag. Sounds rather similar to how the campaign meeting must have gone at the top of the Labour party before the last GE, and that worked out well for them.

    Personally I haven't a clue who is going to win, there is a deep seams of untapped pissed-offness in the country, just as there is an the USA powering Trump's current adventure. When Mr WVM has some nice Guardianista girl on the phone asking if he is planning on voting leave, is he going to tell her what she wants to hear ? Is he going to look a the government monstering his buy-to-let and decided quietly between himself and his other half that actually the government is all together too self satisfied and it needs a good kick ? Is he going to look at the drop in his daily rate over the last few years, and his wifes long wait to see the doctor, and decide that there is no risk of Alex Salmond this time and actually that chap Farage has got it right. I don't know, you don't know.. interesting times.

    Smile at us, pay us, pass us; but do not quite forget,
    For we are the people of England, that never has spoken yet.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Sleazy broken SNP on the slide and SCon surge all in one.

    Scottish parliament voting intention (const.):
    SNP: 57% (-1)
    LAB: 21% (-)
    CON: 17% (+5)
    LDEM: 3% (-1)
    (via TNS / 06 - 25 Jan)

    Scottish parliament voting intention (list):
    SNP: 52% (-2)
    LAB: 19% (-1)
    CON: 17% (+5)
    LDEM: 6% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-3)
    (via TNS / 06 - 25 Jan)

    When does the kilt-wearing Basil make an appearance?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    edited February 2016

    rcs1000 said:

    A very interesting article on the GOP race, arguing (inter alia) that we shouldn't write off Ted Cruz:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/04/opinion/campaign-stops/the-plausibility-of-ted-cruz.html?ref=opinion

    It skates over the real problem: Super Tuesday is as good as it gets for Cruz. All his states are early and proportional.
    That don't matter if the redder states have more delegates, and the bluer states are split betweeb Trump and Rubio.
    I don't think it's simply a question of "Redder" vs "Bluer", I think it's more a case of evangelical Christian states. So, Iowa is very evangelical - but elected Obama in both 2008 and 2012.

    It's easy to see the potential Cruz states: they are the Santorum states and the Huckabee states, cutting a swathe up the centre of the US. (Plus, potentially, Texas.)

    The vast bulk of these states elect their delegates proportionally. So, even if Cruz wins all of them, with 50% of the vote, then he'll only collect 60% of the delegates. That will get him to 15% of the delegates.

    By contrast Florida, New York and California are all "winner takes all states". If Rubio were to win every state Santorum did, he would get around 270 delegates. If Rubio were to win his home state of Florida plus California, he'd get the same number.
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    But Rubio can't win without a collapse in the Trump vote. Now, it may be that that will happen but a lot of people seem to have made their mind up on him in NH and I can't really see why that would change now. It's not just Trump who would likely turn his fire on Rubio if the Floridan starts to poll very well, Cruz will too. How well Rubio will stand up to negative campaigning remains to be seen; there's not been all that much so far, I think.

    Rubio has been getting a hell of a lot of stuff thrown at him in ads in NH, especially from the big-spending Bush campaign, and he's about to get a hell of a lot more:

    The trouble for Rubio is that of the three candidates who effectively skipped Iowa to focus on New Hampshire — Bush, Christie, and Kasich — the most formidable opponent is the one he has the most interest in taking down: Bush. Bush’s Right to Rise Super PAC has been hammering Rubio to the point where it seems possible that Rubio’s numbers have been artificially low for months, and Bush and his Super PAC still have sufficient funding to continue. Many party leaders and pundits say Rubio is the likeliest GOP nominee at this point, but all that could go up in smoke if he sags badly in New Hampshire and allows one or more of the Bush-Christie-Kasich troika to move up and on.

    Rubio had better be ready for the Saturday Republican debate — he arguably will be the top target of everyone else on stage. In fact, so many candidates have so much at stake in New Hampshire that they’d all better buckle on their armor. The incoming fire is guaranteed to be withering.


    http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''I don't know, you don't know.. interesting times.''

    2016 is a big anti establishment year. People in the West hate their elites. That's as far as I have got with this.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    rcs1000 said:

    A very interesting article on the GOP race, arguing (inter alia) that we shouldn't write off Ted Cruz:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/04/opinion/campaign-stops/the-plausibility-of-ted-cruz.html?ref=opinion

    It skates over the real problem: Super Tuesday is as good as it gets for Cruz. All his states are early and proportional.
    That don't matter if the redder states have more delegates, and the bluer states are split betweeb Trump and Rubio.
    True, but if Cruz hasn't got more than 50% of delegates I could see Trump and Rubio doing a deal. The GOP establishment can stomach Trump, I don't think they could do the same for Cruz.
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    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: Andy Burnham and Sir Keir Starmer to launch Labour 'immigration listening tour' https://t.co/KH72MOVl91 https://t.co/wPIUyVTJNA

    I chance for Flip Flop to get stuck in revolving doors up and down the land....
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'll buy Tunnocks teacakes if this carries on :smiley:
    Charles said:

    Sleazy broken SNP on the slide and SCon surge all in one.

    Scottish parliament voting intention (const.):
    SNP: 57% (-1)
    LAB: 21% (-)
    CON: 17% (+5)
    LDEM: 3% (-1)
    (via TNS / 06 - 25 Jan)

    Scottish parliament voting intention (list):
    SNP: 52% (-2)
    LAB: 19% (-1)
    CON: 17% (+5)
    LDEM: 6% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-3)
    (via TNS / 06 - 25 Jan)

    When does the kilt-wearing Basil make an appearance?
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    rcs1000 said:

    A very interesting article on the GOP race, arguing (inter alia) that we shouldn't write off Ted Cruz:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/04/opinion/campaign-stops/the-plausibility-of-ted-cruz.html?ref=opinion

    It skates over the real problem: Super Tuesday is as good as it gets for Cruz. All his states are early and proportional.
    That won't matter if he can score a big win on Super Tuesday - but he does have to do that. If he can propel himself into a comfortable lead in terms of perceptions, it will be hard for anyone to catch him. In many ways, it's better to have your best states early. If they come late, chances are you'll be out of the race before it gets to them.
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    Danny565 said:
    As if Clarkson needed any help being smug, but his smugness levels must be off the charts in not only getting a massive pay rise but also seeing the chaos of the Top Gear reboot.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Tim Shipman
    Stuart Rose gets a big laugh for mocking his memory loss. "It could have been worse, I could has been CEO of S&M". Credit to J.McGrory...
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: Andy Burnham and Sir Keir Starmer to launch Labour 'immigration listening tour' https://t.co/KH72MOVl91 https://t.co/wPIUyVTJNA

    How many times can they listen to "put a fackin' stop to it..."?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016

    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: Andy Burnham and Sir Keir Starmer to launch Labour 'immigration listening tour' https://t.co/KH72MOVl91 https://t.co/wPIUyVTJNA

    How many times can they listen to "put a fackin' stop to it..."?
    Or perhaps like the EU / Irish referendum approaches, keep asking the same question in different ways until you get the answers you want to hear. Then claim that everybody backs that and the minority who don't are racist or something.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    How many times can they listen to "put a fackin' stop to it..."?

    A fly on the wall documentary of that tour would be hilarious. A sort of political Spinal Tap.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    http://order-order.com/2016/02/04/israeli-ambassador-late-night-visits-scandal-brewing/

    Woozers....if google translate of the link within the link is correct....unfortunately my knowledge of hebrew is the square root of sod all, so I have no idea if google translate is correctly translating one particular paragraph in the article...
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Labour Leave
    We wish .@vote_leave and .@LeaveEUOfficial well in their collaboration and look forward to a strong united campaign emerging.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Election Data
    New Hampshire GOP poll (UMass/7News): Trump 36, Rubio 15, Cruz 14, Bush 8, Kasich 7. Rubio up 7% since Monday: https://t.co/QkT989O7PV
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    rcs1000 said:

    A very interesting article on the GOP race, arguing (inter alia) that we shouldn't write off Ted Cruz:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/04/opinion/campaign-stops/the-plausibility-of-ted-cruz.html?ref=opinion

    It skates over the real problem: Super Tuesday is as good as it gets for Cruz. All his states are early and proportional.
    That won't matter if he can score a big win on Super Tuesday - but he does have to do that. If he can propel himself into a comfortable lead in terms of perceptions, it will be hard for anyone to catch him. In many ways, it's better to have your best states early. If they come late, chances are you'll be out of the race before it gets to them.
    That's only relevent if you think "The Big Mo" is enough to propel Cruz high enough in the polls to put him first in Michigan, Florida, Illinois, Ohio, Arizona, Wisconsin, etc.

    I don't think it is. The delegate count is going to look pretty ugly for Cruz by the end of March.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    A couple of interesting items from the Iowa Caucuses.

    Firstly it's important to note that it wasn't an election - merely an exercise put on by 2 groups of private people, the Iowa Democrats and the Iowa Republicans.

    The Republican exercise was straight forward: turn up, listen and hold a secret ballot. Results published and move on.

    The Democratic one was much more complex. They don't publish voting numbers, merely the assigned delegate proportions, using a very complex formula.

    It was observed that Hillary won mainly rural caucuses while Bernie won mainly urban districts and college towns. We know that Hillary won by 5 caucuses. It is entirely possible that Bernie got more of the popular vote, which isn't published.

    There were 6 precincts that were decided on a coin toss. Hillary won all 6.

    So Hillary won Iowa on a coin toss - is it time to retool this farce or what?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    Tim_B said:

    A couple of interesting items from the Iowa Caucuses.

    Firstly it's important to note that it wasn't an election - merely an exercise put on by 2 groups of private people, the Iowa Democrats and the Iowa Republicans.

    The Republican exercise was straight forward: turn up, listen and hold a secret ballot. Results published and move on.

    The Democratic one was much more complex. They don't publish voting numbers, merely the assigned delegate proportions, using a very complex formula.

    It was observed that Hillary won mainly rural caucuses while Bernie won mainly urban districts and college towns. We know that Hillary won by 5 caucuses. It is entirely possible that Bernie got more of the popular vote, which isn't published.

    There were 6 precincts that were decided on a coin toss. Hillary won all 6.

    So Hillary won Iowa on a coin toss - is it time to retool this farce or what?

    Surely that's God's way of telling the Democrats to make Hillary the nominee.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    Awesome...

    Criminals with UK children cannot be automatically deported, says EU court

    Theresa May told she cannot expel Moroccan woman with British-born son simply because of conviction

    The advocate general of the European court of justice has told May that it will be contrary to EU law if she automatically expels or refuses a residence permit to a non-EU national with a criminal record who is a parent of a child who is an EU citizen.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/04/theresa-may-cant-deport-moroccan-mother-with-criminal-record-eu-court

    So basically, get into an EU, have a kid asap, sorted...EU permit residence for life.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I thought that nitwit looked familiar. And I've never seen a single episode of Friends.

    Barrel scraping much?

    Danny565 said:
    As if Clarkson needed any help being smug, but his smugness levels must be off the charts in not only getting a massive pay rise but also seeing the chaos of the Top Gear reboot.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    A very interesting article on the GOP race, arguing (inter alia) that we shouldn't write off Ted Cruz:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/04/opinion/campaign-stops/the-plausibility-of-ted-cruz.html?ref=opinion

    It skates over the real problem: Super Tuesday is as good as it gets for Cruz. All his states are early and proportional.
    That won't matter if he can score a big win on Super Tuesday - but he does have to do that. If he can propel himself into a comfortable lead in terms of perceptions, it will be hard for anyone to catch him. In many ways, it's better to have your best states early. If they come late, chances are you'll be out of the race before it gets to them.
    That's only relevent if you think "The Big Mo" is enough to propel Cruz high enough in the polls to put him first in Michigan, Florida, Illinois, Ohio, Arizona, Wisconsin, etc.

    I don't think it is. The delegate count is going to look pretty ugly for Cruz by the end of March.
    No, I don't think it will either; I expect Trump to win. However, if Cruz does do it, that's his route to the nomination. However, his likely problem is a lack of 'Mo' going into Super Tuesday.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: Andy Burnham and Sir Keir Starmer to launch Labour 'immigration listening tour' https://t.co/KH72MOVl91 https://t.co/wPIUyVTJNA

    How many times can they listen to "put a fackin' stop to it..."?
    Or perhaps like the EU / Irish referendum approaches, keep asking the same question in different ways until you get the answers you want to hear. Then claim that everybody backs that and the minority who don't are racist or something.
    Or like the GE campaign where they mostly knocked on the door of known Labour voters, perhaps here they only knock on the door of known Guardian readers and people that follow Jezza on Twitter. Don't want to meet people that might have "bigoted" views, I mean look what happened to Gordon Brown!
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @ProfChalmers: This is fascinating - SNP supporters least likely to vote for the UK to remain in the EU. https://t.co/EKooBr6OHY
  • Options
    Indigo said:

    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: Andy Burnham and Sir Keir Starmer to launch Labour 'immigration listening tour' https://t.co/KH72MOVl91 https://t.co/wPIUyVTJNA

    How many times can they listen to "put a fackin' stop to it..."?
    Or perhaps like the EU / Irish referendum approaches, keep asking the same question in different ways until you get the answers you want to hear. Then claim that everybody backs that and the minority who don't are racist or something.
    Or like the GE campaign where they mostly knocked on the door of known Labour voters, perhaps here they only knock on the door of known Guardian readers and people that follow Jezza on Twitter. Don't want to meet people that might have "bigoted" views, I mean look what happened to Gordon Brown!
    Or yes, heaven forbid they ask Gillian Duffy...
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited February 2016
    Pew Research
    NEW REPORT: #Campaign2016 – 91% of Americans getting news; divided over most helpful source https://t.co/6q8xoQbx7q https://t.co/Vf6qOAk7s7

    83% of 18-29 year-olds getting news abt #Campaign2016 - 35% say SNS most helpful source https://t.co/6q8xoQbx7q https://t.co/thpShbiA5G

    The social network bias for young voters is very significant vs others, one to be wary of as in UK too
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    A very interesting article on the GOP race, arguing (inter alia) that we shouldn't write off Ted Cruz:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/04/opinion/campaign-stops/the-plausibility-of-ted-cruz.html?ref=opinion

    It skates over the real problem: Super Tuesday is as good as it gets for Cruz. All his states are early and proportional.
    That won't matter if he can score a big win on Super Tuesday - but he does have to do that. If he can propel himself into a comfortable lead in terms of perceptions, it will be hard for anyone to catch him. In many ways, it's better to have your best states early. If they come late, chances are you'll be out of the race before it gets to them.
    That's only relevent if you think "The Big Mo" is enough to propel Cruz high enough in the polls to put him first in Michigan, Florida, Illinois, Ohio, Arizona, Wisconsin, etc.

    I don't think it is. The delegate count is going to look pretty ugly for Cruz by the end of March.
    No, I don't think it will either; I expect Trump to win. However, if Cruz does do it, that's his route to the nomination. However, his likely problem is a lack of 'Mo' going into Super Tuesday.
    My view is that we'll see Trump win NH, but by a smaller than expected margin - say 33-25, and the odds will slowly move towards him as he also wins Nevada and South Carolina. In both those states, I expect Rubio to beat Cruz, thus solidifying the fight as Trump v Cruz.

  • Options

    Labour Leave
    We wish .@vote_leave and .@LeaveEUOfficial well in their collaboration and look forward to a strong united campaign emerging.

    Have they merged?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @ShippersUnbound: Stuart Rose wants a ban on opinion polls for 2 weeks before the referendum. Presumably wants to avoid drama of THAT S.Times poll in Scotland
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    rcs1000 said:

    Tim_B said:

    A couple of interesting items from the Iowa Caucuses.

    Firstly it's important to note that it wasn't an election - merely an exercise put on by 2 groups of private people, the Iowa Democrats and the Iowa Republicans.

    The Republican exercise was straight forward: turn up, listen and hold a secret ballot. Results published and move on.

    The Democratic one was much more complex. They don't publish voting numbers, merely the assigned delegate proportions, using a very complex formula.

    It was observed that Hillary won mainly rural caucuses while Bernie won mainly urban districts and college towns. We know that Hillary won by 5 caucuses. It is entirely possible that Bernie got more of the popular vote, which isn't published.

    There were 6 precincts that were decided on a coin toss. Hillary won all 6.

    So Hillary won Iowa on a coin toss - is it time to retool this farce or what?

    Surely that's God's way of telling the Democrats to make Hillary the nominee.
    If you can't sleep, there's a Clinton / Sanders debate this evening at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.

    Today's hot topic - is Hillary a 'progressive' or not. Yup, it's that bad.
  • Options

    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: Andy Burnham and Sir Keir Starmer to launch Labour 'immigration listening tour' https://t.co/KH72MOVl91 https://t.co/wPIUyVTJNA

    How many times can they listen to "put a fackin' stop to it..."?
    Reek and Keir Starmer "listening" on immigration??

    Chairman ROFLMAO
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Scott_P said:

    @ProfChalmers: This is fascinating - SNP supporters least likely to vote for the UK to remain in the EU. https://t.co/EKooBr6OHY

    Not surprising to me - I always thought the SNP were mopping up the Ukippish "fuck 'em all" vote.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Cats have career aspirations too. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3431521/The-CAT-controller-Huddersfield-train-station-s-patrolling-moggie-Felix-promoted-Senior-Pest-Controller-new-uniform-badge.html
    A beloved moggie who has spent almost five years patrolling a West Yorkshire railway station has been given a promotion for her dedication to her job.

    Felix, a black-and-white cat, has been named Senior Pest Controller and given a new high-vis jacket and a name badge by TransPennine Express.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    The social network campaign is on

    Leave EU
    Over 420,000 are now following @LeaveEUOfficial on Facebook. Only 2000 behind Labour.

    #Brexit
    #LeaveEU
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    ...In both those states, I expect Rubio to beat Cruz, thus solidifying the fight as Trump v Cruz.

    Do you mean 'solidifying the fight as Trump vs Rubio'?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    rcs1000 said:

    ...In both those states, I expect Rubio to beat Cruz, thus solidifying the fight as Trump v Cruz.

    Do you mean 'solidifying the fight as Trump vs Rubio'?
    yes
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Just reading Tim Montgomerie's account of David Davis' speech. He seems to get that Brexit will need to offer a proper vision of the UK outside the EU if it is to succeed.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Andrew Neil
    BANK OF ENGLAND projects inflation to remain below 1% for all of 2016 and reach 2% target only by the first quarter of 2018
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Indigo said:

    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: Andy Burnham and Sir Keir Starmer to launch Labour 'immigration listening tour' https://t.co/KH72MOVl91 https://t.co/wPIUyVTJNA

    How many times can they listen to "put a fackin' stop to it..."?
    Or perhaps like the EU / Irish referendum approaches, keep asking the same question in different ways until you get the answers you want to hear. Then claim that everybody backs that and the minority who don't are racist or something.
    Or like the GE campaign where they mostly knocked on the door of known Labour voters, perhaps here they only knock on the door of known Guardian readers and people that follow Jezza on Twitter. Don't want to meet people that might have "bigoted" views, I mean look what happened to Gordon Brown!
    If you are concerned with immigration or the EU,no point voting labour.


    Just watch the commons when we have debates on these subjects,most labour MP's never criticize,infact if you pushed them,they want more.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @ProfChalmers: This is fascinating - SNP supporters least likely to vote for the UK to remain in the EU. https://t.co/EKooBr6OHY

    Not surprising to me - I always thought the SNP were mopping up the Ukippish "fuck 'em all" vote.
    Isn't the insinuation that some SNP voters think that voting to leave the EU is a good way to go about getting a second Scottish Independence Referendum?
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    More Pew

    Few Americans following election news consider print versions of newspapers helpful source types https://t.co/Tc50YqeTG3
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    rcs1000 said:

    ...In both those states, I expect Rubio to beat Cruz, thus solidifying the fight as Trump v Cruz.

    Do you mean 'solidifying the fight as Trump vs Rubio'?
    If that does happen, won't it play into Trump's hands by Cruz then getting a Super Tuesday boost and continuing to keep the conservative vote from consolidating - thereby allowing Trump to maintain a lead with 35-40%?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    tlg86 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @ProfChalmers: This is fascinating - SNP supporters least likely to vote for the UK to remain in the EU. https://t.co/EKooBr6OHY

    Not surprising to me - I always thought the SNP were mopping up the Ukippish "fuck 'em all" vote.
    Isn't the insinuation that some SNP voters think that voting to leave the EU is a good way to go about getting a second Scottish Independence Referendum?
    They aren't really bothering to vote to leave the EU, more staying at home.
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    I really hope Hilary is the Democrat nominee. Sanders is Corbyn MK2, and on top of that, I find his supporters to be totally insufferable. They are so 'right-on' it's unreal.

    On the QT line-up, I actually think I'm going to watch it tonight, for the first time in an age. I used to habitually watch QT and This Week on Thursday nights, however in the last two years, I've gradually gotten bored with both. QT has become particularly tiresome. Still Farage vs four women, especially a Tory moderate like Rudd and Isabel Oakeshott, is popcorn worthy.

    On Osborne, I think MaxPB in the previous thread mentioned him not being popular in London. That's not surprising - I don't think many people outside of the political bubble really see Osborne as a moderate, despite him being a mild eurosceptic and having socially liberal views on some topics. On top of that, among people I know, I've not found many people who actually like Osborne. He comes off as a pretty dislikable figure. Whereas everyone seems to like Boris (well, except Michael Portillo).
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited February 2016

    Indigo said:

    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: Andy Burnham and Sir Keir Starmer to launch Labour 'immigration listening tour' https://t.co/KH72MOVl91 https://t.co/wPIUyVTJNA

    How many times can they listen to "put a fackin' stop to it..."?
    Or perhaps like the EU / Irish referendum approaches, keep asking the same question in different ways until you get the answers you want to hear. Then claim that everybody backs that and the minority who don't are racist or something.
    Or like the GE campaign where they mostly knocked on the door of known Labour voters, perhaps here they only knock on the door of known Guardian readers and people that follow Jezza on Twitter. Don't want to meet people that might have "bigoted" views, I mean look what happened to Gordon Brown!
    If you are concerned with immigration or the EU,no point voting labour.


    Just watch the commons when we have debates on these subjects,most labour MP's never criticize,infact if you pushed them,they want more.
    Indeed. Watch all those WVM/WWC types that voted Labour at the GE because they think Dave is posh, George is sneery and Farage couldn't win, vote OUT in the referendum. I think some on here expecting the vote to break on party lines are complacent. A good chunk of the ethnic vote that went for Ed because Labour are nice to immigrants also actually don't want any more following them, and will vote out as well.
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    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Moving pictures? What manner of sorcery is this?!

    Ms. Apocalypse, Oakeshott's a fool. Doubt I'll watch Question Time. The fact the clown Jess Philips got applause (apparently) for claiming Cologne-style attacks happen all the time in Birmingham betrays the audience is about as representative of Britain as a niche Facebook clique.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited February 2016

    If that does happen, won't it play into Trump's hands by Cruz then getting a Super Tuesday boost and continuing to keep the conservative vote from consolidating - thereby allowing Trump to maintain a lead with 35-40%?

    Yes, this could go on with the three leading contenders (and maybe one or more of the others hanging on in there) for some time.

    In a way, though, I don't think we need to speculate too far. It seems to me that the most obvious ploy is to lay Rubio at the current odds; it will only require him to stumble in NH for the odds to shift out, whereas I can't see them shifting in much beyond what we're currently seeing.

    DYOR, what do I know?, etc etc!
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    Cats have career aspirations too. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3431521/The-CAT-controller-Huddersfield-train-station-s-patrolling-moggie-Felix-promoted-Senior-Pest-Controller-new-uniform-badge.html

    A beloved moggie who has spent almost five years patrolling a West Yorkshire railway station has been given a promotion for her dedication to her job.

    Felix, a black-and-white cat, has been named Senior Pest Controller and given a new high-vis jacket and a name badge by TransPennine Express.
    Literally the only good thing about the DM online is their cat stories. I love them.
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    Whatever Gordon Brown said about Gillian Duffy, it sufficed for Labour to win Rochdale from the LibDems (and Rochdale is now a safe Labour seat).
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    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Moving pictures? What manner of sorcery is this?!

    Ms. Apocalypse, Oakeshott's a fool. Doubt I'll watch Question Time. The fact the clown Jess Philips got applause (apparently) for claiming Cologne-style attacks happen all the time in Birmingham betrays the audience is about as representative of Britain as a niche Facebook clique.

    Oakeshott always came across pretty well on the Sunday Politics. Although I know that her reputation on here has taken a downturn since pig-gate! I actually always preferred her to Janan Ganesh, who is too much of a George Osborne ''fanboy'' for my liking.

    On the Jess Philips thing, I'm shocked she got an applause. While I don't doubt sexual assault and rape does happen in Birmingham, and indeed probably can happen in crowds or groups, the kind of mass attacks planned by up to a thousand men in front of women's fathers, boyfriends, and husbands I would think are incredibly rare there.
This discussion has been closed.