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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The turnout problem facing Bernie Sanders as seen by the NY

SystemSystem Posts: 12,293
edited 2016 26 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The turnout problem facing Bernie Sanders as seen by the NYT’s Nate Cohn

The turnout challenge facing Sanders as seen by Nate Cohn. NYT
https://t.co/VlNiAMKJlq pic.twitter.com/69oECgsHik

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Comments

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    Thirst.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,754
    We'll soon see.

    Bernie has the best voice of all the candidates though !
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,754
    Interestingly Sanders plans are to clobber people earning $250k+ so far as I can tell, which some may think puts him to the right of Osborne ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,145
    Indeed but Sanders and Trump's rallies are the most enthusiastic and packed on either side and even if only half vote that would still be a sizeable presence
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Corbyn USA
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    Sunil J. Prasannan is calling for a total and complete shut-down of AV threads entering PB.com, until our Forum's representatives can figure out what is going on!
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited 2016 26
    When you think how many people were onsite around 10pm waiting for their fix from the Daily You Gov..

    What larks eh!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    Pulpstar said:

    Interestingly Sanders plans are to clobber people earning $250k+ so far as I can tell, which some may think puts him to the right of Osborne ;)

    Lolz!
  • For what it's worth, the 2008 caucuses in Iowa were on January 3, probably right at the tail end of the Christmas break for most students The Times article said that it had been a challenge for out-of-state students to come back then but that sounds doubtful. If Iowa colleges were anything like those in Missouri (the state just south, where I went,) most of them were probably from instate and hanging around at home. It would be supremely easy for them to head on out to the local town hall or whatever.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120
    I had quite a lot of dealings with Larry, his brother as local councillor in Oxford. I even voted for Larry at the last GE under a vote swop agreement. Lovely man, but I was rather thrown once when he asked me at a public meeting what I was doing about the carbon foot print of the services I was managing.
    Pulpstar said:

    We'll soon see.

    Bernie has the best voice of all the candidates though !

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451

    When you think how many people were onsite around 10pm waiting for their fix from the Daily You Gov..

    What larks eh!

    God, I remember that.

    And how I spent night after night waiting around on my PC for the poll to be released, and then debating its non-movement for another hour or so.

    YouGov owe me a lot of sleep.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited 2016 26
    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    When you think how many people were onsite around 10pm waiting for their fix from the Daily You Gov..

    What larks eh!

    Yawn-Gov :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    Hope everyone enjoyed the Channel 4 propaganda piece :)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,550
    Q. I haven't heard much about the Tea Party recently, have they come up with a collective view on the Trumpnami? Is Palin's endorsement a tacit endorsement by the TP?

    A lot of the folk attending Trump rallies interviewed by Frei sounded very like Tea Partiers.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FPT

    @viewcode

    In this market, if you have a buyer for your flat don't lose him. Sell and rent for 3 months if you have to while you find the right place

    @rcs1000

    I saw your comment about DRC. Is now the right time to mention I had a very pleasant Grand Echeveaux, 1990 on Sunday? According to my Dad it was the perfect wine for sausages. I didn't protest too much!

    @Alanbrooke

    Did I see you say something positive about Cameron on the last thread? I almost fell off my chair!
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,754
    Just SIX sleeps to Iowa :D
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    DR Sunil

    Does your name mean Dark Blue or Red Lotus


    http://www.indiachildnames.com/name.aspx?name=Sunil

    and did it affect the way you voted at GE 2015? How do you feel with Jeremy as your great leader?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,145
    edited 2016 26

    Q. I haven't heard much about the Tea Party recently, have they come up with a collective view on the Trumpnami? Is Palin's endorsement a tacit endorsement by the TP?

    A lot of the folk attending Trump rallies interviewed by Frei sounded very like Tea Partiers.

    Quinnipiac today has Cruz beating Trump in Iowa with Tea Party backers 50% to 34% , though Trump leads 31% to 29% overall
    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/iowa/release-detail?ReleaseID=2318

    CNN has Trump on 37% with Tea Party backers nationwide to Cruz's 34% but Trump leads 41% to 19% overall
    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/26/politics/poll-republicans-results-cnn-orc/index.html
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    She should be given a refill.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    The glue of Europe is melting.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Charles said:

    FPT

    @viewcode

    In this market, if you have a buyer for your flat don't lose him. Sell and rent for 3 months if you have to while you find the right place

    @rcs1000

    I saw your comment about DRC. Is now the right time to mention I had a very pleasant Grand Echeveaux, 1990 on Sunday? According to my Dad it was the perfect wine for sausages. I didn't protest too much!

    @Alanbrooke

    Did I see you say something positive about Cameron on the last thread? I almost fell off my chair!

    A Grand Echeveaux is perfect with just about anything. Other pairings for sausages I'd suggest would be a really good Zinfandel, or a Pinotage, respectively spicy and earthy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    What should be done with the attacker?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,811
    edited 2016 26

    When you think how many people were onsite around 10pm waiting for their fix from the Daily You Gov..

    What larks eh!

    Night after night during 2010 was the best for all that.

    'Wibbly wobbly Tory bottoms...'

    'Osborne has to go...'

    'Cameron. Pledge an EU referendum. NOW!'

    'That Michael Crick really is a ...'
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    edited 2016 26

    DR Sunil

    Does your name mean Dark Blue or Red Lotus


    http://www.indiachildnames.com/name.aspx?name=Sunil

    and did it affect the way you voted at GE 2015? How do you feel with Jeremy as your great leader?

    The "Sunil = blue" has been a PB meme for many a year, Mr Root!

    I tactically voted for Jezza as a £3-er, let's just say I am "satisfied" with his performance :lol:

    BTW it can't mean "red lotus" that must be a typo...
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited 2016 26

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    What should be done with the attacker?
    Should be arrested and charged.

    The point, if anyone actually read the article not just the headline, is that pepper spray is an unlawful weapon to possess or use in Denmark. She might get a Kr500 fine (which will likely be paid by donation) or a simple admonishment. But it's still an offence and the police are obliged to report it to whatever they call the Fiscal.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    MTimT said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    The glue of Europe is melting.
    I think the legal position here is similar. Pepper spray is considered an offensive weapon here too.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,029
    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves. A pepper spray against a sexual assailant is to my mind reasonable force.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    When you think how many people were onsite around 10pm waiting for their fix from the Daily You Gov..

    What larks eh!

    Night after night during 2010 was the best for all that.

    'Wibbly wobbly Tory bottoms...'

    'Osborne has to go...'

    'Cameron. Calll an EU referendum. NOW!'

    'That Michael Crick really is a ...'
    "EICIPM" :)
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    What should be done? Nothing at all if it was used in self-defence.
    What do you think the girl should have done? Laid back to think of England (sorry, Denmark)?

  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves. A pepper spray against a sexual assailant is to my mind reasonable force.
    But most importantly, it is not lawful to use (or even possess) in Denmark.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited 2016 26
    LucyJones said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    What should be done? Nothing at all if it was used in self-defence.
    What do you think the girl should have done? Laid back to think of England (sorry, Denmark)?

    The girl should have done whatever she could using whatever lawful method was available and appropriate. In Denmark, pepper spray is not a lawful method. It sounds like a stupid law, one that should never have been passed. But it is the law.

    You are quiet happy for people in the UK to go around with unlicensed firearms? As long as they are women. Or do you think everyone should be allowed to carry firearms?
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    edited 2016 26

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves. A pepper spray against a sexual assailant is to my mind reasonable force.
    Is she being charged for the carrying of the spray, or for its use?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves. A pepper spray against a sexual assailant is to my mind reasonable force.
    But most importantly, it is not lawful to use (or even possess) in Denmark.
    I thought sexual assault was unlawful in Denmark?
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2016 26
    LucyJones said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    What should be done? Nothing at all if it was used in self-defence.
    What do you think the girl should have done? Laid back to think of England (sorry, Denmark)?

    An unlicensed firearm? She would face prosecution, and rightly so. Self defence is no excuse, if the weapon is held illegally.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    DR Sunil

    Does your name mean Dark Blue or Red Lotus


    http://www.indiachildnames.com/name.aspx?name=Sunil

    and did it affect the way you voted at GE 2015? How do you feel with Jeremy as your great leader?

    The "Sunil = blue" has been a PB meme for many a year, Mr Root!

    I tactically voted for Jezza as a £3-er, let's just say I am "satisfied" with his performance :lol:

    BTW it can't mean "red lotus" that must be a typo...
    So its all your fault Labour has this loon as leader..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,145
    Tony Blair 'There is a little-noticed dimension which is that, in my opinion, if the UK votes to leave Europe, Scotland will vote to leave the UK. It is extremely serious for Great Britain.'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3417882/Tony-Blair-warns-Scotland-quit-UK-Britain-votes-leave-EU.html#ixzz3yOQAsSOD
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    What should be done? Nothing at all if it was used in self-defence.
    What do you think the girl should have done? Laid back to think of England (sorry, Denmark)?

    So you are quiet happy for people in the UK to go around with unlicensed firearms. As long as they are women. Or do you think everyone should be allowed to carry firearms?
    So you are quite happy for people to go around sexually assaulting women? Or do you think everyone should be allowed to sexually assault?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    Not quite equivalent, as a gun is a lethal weapons whereas pepper spray is not and is to all intents and purposes a defensive only weapon.

    However, from a legal perspective, guilt and mitigating circumstances are separate considerations. She would be guilty of illegal possession of a firearm, but might get some consideration in sentencing for the circumstances in which her possession came to light.

    In the case of the Danish girl, I would hope that the mitigation would reduce any penalty to almost zero and that her case would spark a reasoned national debate about:
    1. the wisdom of banning pepper spray as a defensive weapon
    2. how to protect women from such assaults if circumstances have changed
    3. the legal protections for self-defence during assault
  • CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    edited 2016 26
    HYUFD said:

    Tony Blair 'There is a little-noticed dimension which is that, in my opinion, if the UK votes to leave Europe, Scotland will vote to leave the UK. It is extremely serious for Great Britain.'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3417882/Tony-Blair-warns-Scotland-quit-UK-Britain-votes-leave-EU.html#ixzz3yOQAsSOD

    Except that is not necessarily true. For a start, Scotland may also vote to leave. Even if they don't, and the UK as a whole does, it would result in a second indy referendum, not independence per se.

    In any case, I'm warming to the idea of an England & Wales outside both the EU and the union with Scotland.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,029
    One thought that occurred to me during the Frei piece was that Trump has hardly had a female opponent to campaign against so far. The only exception is Fiorina, who going by the Huff Post average has never polled more than 8% or better than fifth. Even so, do we know if the two have crossed swords at any time?

    He seems to have a particular issue with women having a go at him and gets personal very quickly. It would be useful to know if he has form against candidates too to gauge how he might go on against Hillary. I'm tempted to think he might blow his chances there and then, should he be nominated.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    DR Sunil

    Does your name mean Dark Blue or Red Lotus


    http://www.indiachildnames.com/name.aspx?name=Sunil

    and did it affect the way you voted at GE 2015? How do you feel with Jeremy as your great leader?

    The "Sunil = blue" has been a PB meme for many a year, Mr Root!

    I tactically voted for Jezza as a £3-er, let's just say I am "satisfied" with his performance :lol:

    BTW it can't mean "red lotus" that must be a typo...
    So its all your fault Labour has this loon as leader..
    No it's all the fault of the OTHER 251,416 who voted for him :lol:
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    alex. said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves. A pepper spray against a sexual assailant is to my mind reasonable force.
    Is she being charged for the carrying of the spray, or for its use?
    Both it seems but it sounds like one offence.

    “It is illegal to possess and use pepper spray, so she will likely be charged for that,” local police spokesman Knud Kirsten told TV Syd.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    It would probably be quite useful for the rUK if Scotland quit to join the EU. Pretty short-sighted on their part. It would be a counterweight to those arguing for EU trade barriers with the UK, since such barriers would be unambiguously disastrous for Scotland. Of course Ireland is pretty shit scared about the UK leaving as well.
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    What should be done with the attacker?
    Should be arrested and charged.

    The point, if anyone actually read the article not just the headline, is that pepper spray is an unlawful weapon to possess or use in Denmark. She might get a Kr500 fine (which will likely be paid by donation) or a simple admonishment. But it's still an offence and the police are obliged to report it to whatever they call the Fiscal.
    And what has actually happened is that the girl who was attacked has been charged whilst her assailant remains at liberty.

    Whether the fine is paid by the victim herself or not is almost irrelevant. What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found).

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,754
    HYUFD said:

    Tony Blair 'There is a little-noticed dimension which is that, in my opinion, if the UK votes to leave Europe, Scotland will vote to leave the UK. It is extremely serious for Great Britain.'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3417882/Tony-Blair-warns-Scotland-quit-UK-Britain-votes-leave-EU.html#ixzz3yOQAsSOD

    Advert of the day for "Leave" that article.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,145

    HYUFD said:

    Tony Blair 'There is a little-noticed dimension which is that, in my opinion, if the UK votes to leave Europe, Scotland will vote to leave the UK. It is extremely serious for Great Britain.'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3417882/Tony-Blair-warns-Scotland-quit-UK-Britain-votes-leave-EU.html#ixzz3yOQAsSOD

    Except that is not necessarily true. For a start, Scotland may also vote to leave. Even if they don't, and the UK as a whole does, it would result in a second indy referendum, not independence per se.

    In any case, I'm warming to the idea of an England & Wales outside both the EU and the union with Scotland.
    No but it would increase the likelihood of it, though England would have effectively voted them out by default anyway
  • CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    SeanT said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    No, You're fucking not. And I speak as the father of two daughters. I don't want them to grow up in a West where they are reduced to what they were: fearful chattels, hidebound, chastened, humiliated, unable to walk the streets as free and equal people.

    But that's where we are headed if the Muslim population exceeds 10-20%, and that will happen in our lifetimes, if not sooner, unless we STOP Muslim immigration now and start DEPORTING Muslims who will not assimilate to liberal values.

    That's it. That's the choice. Wanker lefties who pretend otherwise are liars. Islam does not integrate. It conquers, or at best forms nasty ghettos.

    But if women in the west want to stop this they need to wise up and use the best weapon they have. Which is not pepper spray. It is the vote. Women need to vote right, or hard right, in toto and en masse. Liberal lefties will never defend feminism, for them race trumps gender, that much is now clear.

    Vote right.
    You're correct, but sadly we're heading into oblivion because the majority are indoctrinated and can't handle the reality of our situation.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MTimT said:

    Charles said:

    FPT

    @viewcode

    In this market, if you have a buyer for your flat don't lose him. Sell and rent for 3 months if you have to while you find the right place

    @rcs1000

    I saw your comment about DRC. Is now the right time to mention I had a very pleasant Grand Echeveaux, 1990 on Sunday? According to my Dad it was the perfect wine for sausages. I didn't protest too much!

    @Alanbrooke

    Did I see you say something positive about Cameron on the last thread? I almost fell off my chair!

    A Grand Echeveaux is perfect with just about anything. Other pairings for sausages I'd suggest would be a really good Zinfandel, or a Pinotage, respectively spicy and earthy.
    The last drops even worked with chicken soup yesterday...
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    What should be done? Nothing at all if it was used in self-defence.
    What do you think the girl should have done? Laid back to think of England (sorry, Denmark)?

    So you are quiet happy for people in the UK to go around with unlicensed firearms. As long as they are women. Or do you think everyone should be allowed to carry firearms?
    So you are quite happy for people to go around sexually assaulting women? Or do you think everyone should be allowed to sexually assault?
    Pepper spray in the UK is classed as a section 5 weapon, as are fire arms. The fine and criminal record for carrying it is far stronger than 500 DKR. It is fairly easy to buy in some european countries including Germany.

    I think this is because pepper spray can be offensive as well as defensive. It would be very useful if planning a street robbery or assault in disabling a victim.

  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,029
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves. A pepper spray against a sexual assailant is to my mind reasonable force.
    But most importantly, it is not lawful to use (or even possess) in Denmark.
    If that is the case then there is an argument for arresting her for possession. I don't think there'd be any case to charge her with assault for using it in those circumstances, unless the Danish have a different stupid law for that too.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Charles said:

    MTimT said:

    Charles said:

    FPT

    @viewcode

    In this market, if you have a buyer for your flat don't lose him. Sell and rent for 3 months if you have to while you find the right place

    @rcs1000

    I saw your comment about DRC. Is now the right time to mention I had a very pleasant Grand Echeveaux, 1990 on Sunday? According to my Dad it was the perfect wine for sausages. I didn't protest too much!

    @Alanbrooke

    Did I see you say something positive about Cameron on the last thread? I almost fell off my chair!

    A Grand Echeveaux is perfect with just about anything. Other pairings for sausages I'd suggest would be a really good Zinfandel, or a Pinotage, respectively spicy and earthy.
    The last drops even worked with chicken soup yesterday...
    :)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,242
    edited 2016 26

    One thought that occurred to me during the Frei piece was that Trump has hardly had a female opponent to campaign against so far. The only exception is Fiorina, who going by the Huff Post average has never polled more than 8% or better than fifth. Even so, do we know if the two have crossed swords at any time?

    The one heated moment between them was when Fiorina responded to his disparaging remarks about her looks. One of the few times Trump looked flustered.

    Sadly Fiorina's campaign has fizzled out since then. The Planned Parenthood row didn't do her any good.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4kX2tXvuVA
  • So with an independent Scotland in the EU - and a rump UK out - get ready for a whole spate of hysterical smuggling stories in what, five or six years?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    MTimT said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    Not quite equivalent, as a gun is a lethal weapons whereas pepper spray is not and is to all intents and purposes a defensive only weapon.

    However, from a legal perspective, guilt and mitigating circumstances are separate considerations. She would be guilty of illegal possession of a firearm, but might get some consideration in sentencing for the circumstances in which her possession came to light.

    In the case of the Danish girl, I would hope that the mitigation would reduce any penalty to almost zero and that her case would spark a reasoned national debate about:
    1. the wisdom of banning pepper spray as a defensive weapon
    2. how to protect women from such assaults if circumstances have changed
    3. the legal protections for self-defence during assault
    Yes, agreed. It does seem ridiculous that pepper spray is unlawful to be carried in Denmark. However, didn't Tony Blair come close to banning it in this country as well?

    I wondered if it might be a source of anaphylaxis but a quite google search suggests not. So it appears a reasonable self-defence tool for people to carry.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MTimT said:

    Charles said:

    MTimT said:

    Charles said:

    FPT

    @viewcode

    In this market, if you have a buyer for your flat don't lose him. Sell and rent for 3 months if you have to while you find the right place

    @rcs1000

    I saw your comment about DRC. Is now the right time to mention I had a very pleasant Grand Echeveaux, 1990 on Sunday? According to my Dad it was the perfect wine for sausages. I didn't protest too much!

    @Alanbrooke

    Did I see you say something positive about Cameron on the last thread? I almost fell off my chair!

    A Grand Echeveaux is perfect with just about anything. Other pairings for sausages I'd suggest would be a really good Zinfandel, or a Pinotage, respectively spicy and earthy.
    The last drops even worked with chicken soup yesterday...
    :)
    He's promised me 6 bottles for a belated Christmas present :):)
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited 2016 26
    HYUFD said:

    Tony Blair 'There is a little-noticed dimension which is that, in my opinion, if the UK votes to leave Europe, Scotland will vote to leave the UK. It is extremely serious for Great Britain.'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3417882/Tony-Blair-warns-Scotland-quit-UK-Britain-votes-leave-EU.html#ixzz3yOQAsSOD

    When one hears figures who held office in the past pontificating about anything, one's (or at least my reaction is) "Who cares" ..

    Do you care what Brown, Prezza, Mandleson... or any of the others who held office pre 2010, say these days, Blair.. Should be tried as a war crinimial,,, . Alistair Campbell.. zzzz.. etc etc they are yesterdays people.. just as Dave and Co will be in the not to distant future..

    The big question post office is , how much will the public loathe them
    Dave will do Ok methinks, history will not be kind to others of his time... poor old Cleggy...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,925
    edited 2016 26

    SeanT said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    No, You're fucking not. And I speak as the father of two daughters. I don't want them to grow up in a West where they are reduced to what they were: fearful chattels, hidebound, chastened, humiliated, unable to walk the streets as free and equal people.

    But that's where we are headed if the Muslim population exceeds 10-20%, and that will happen in our lifetimes, if not sooner, unless we STOP Muslim immigration now and start DEPORTING Muslims who will not assimilate to liberal values.

    That's it. That's the choice. Wanker lefties who pretend otherwise are liars. Islam does not integrate. It conquers, or at best forms nasty ghettos.

    But if women in the west want to stop this they need to wise up and use the best weapon they have. Which is not pepper spray. It is the vote. Women need to vote right, or hard right, in toto and en masse. Liberal lefties will never defend feminism, for them race trumps gender, that much is now clear.

    Vote right.
    You're correct, but sadly we're heading into oblivion because the majority are indoctrinated and can't handle the reality of our situation.
    Where are Hattie Harman, Caroline Lucas and the rest of the feminist t-shirt wearers when it comes to hundreds of women being sexually assaulted across Europe?
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Dair said:

    MTimT said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    Not quite equivalent, as a gun is a lethal weapons whereas pepper spray is not and is to all intents and purposes a defensive only weapon.

    However, from a legal perspective, guilt and mitigating circumstances are separate considerations. She would be guilty of illegal possession of a firearm, but might get some consideration in sentencing for the circumstances in which her possession came to light.

    In the case of the Danish girl, I would hope that the mitigation would reduce any penalty to almost zero and that her case would spark a reasoned national debate about:
    1. the wisdom of banning pepper spray as a defensive weapon
    2. how to protect women from such assaults if circumstances have changed
    3. the legal protections for self-defence during assault
    Yes, agreed. It does seem ridiculous that pepper spray is unlawful to be carried in Denmark. However, didn't Tony Blair come close to banning it in this country as well?

    I wondered if it might be a source of anaphylaxis but a quite google search suggests not. So it appears a reasonable self-defence tool for people to carry.
    Pepper Spray is illegal in the UK.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    SeanT said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    No, You're fucking not. And I speak as the father of two daughters. I don't want them to grow up in a West where they are reduced to what they were: fearful chattels, hidebound, chastened, humiliated, unable to walk the streets as free and equal people.

    But that's where we are headed if the Muslim population exceeds 10-20%, and that will happen in our lifetimes, if not sooner, unless we STOP Muslim immigration now and start DEPORTING Muslims who will not assimilate to liberal values.

    That's it. That's the choice. Wanker lefties who pretend otherwise are liars. Islam does not integrate. It conquers, or at best forms nasty ghettos.

    But if women in the west want to stop this they need to wise up and use the best weapon they have. Which is not pepper spray. It is the vote. Women need to vote right, or hard right, in toto and en masse. Liberal lefties will never defend feminism, for them race trumps gender, that much is now clear.

    Vote right.
    Perhaps a novel about what it is like for minority white girls in some UK communities today might prove interesting and perhaps even successful.
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    SeanT said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    No, You're fucking not. And I speak as the father of two daughters. I don't want them to grow up in a West where they are reduced to what they were: fearful chattels, hidebound, chastened, humiliated, unable to walk the streets as free and equal people.

    But that's where we are headed if the Muslim population exceeds 10-20%, and that will happen in our lifetimes, if not sooner, unless we STOP Muslim immigration now and start DEPORTING Muslims who will not assimilate to liberal values.

    That's it. That's the choice. Wanker lefties who pretend otherwise are liars. Islam does not integrate. It conquers, or at best forms nasty ghettos.

    But if women in the west want to stop this they need to wise up and use the best weapon they have. Which is not pepper spray. It is the vote. Women need to vote right, or hard right, in toto and en masse. Liberal lefties will never defend feminism, for them race trumps gender, that much is now clear.

    Vote right.
    I have two girls, too. A 9-year-old and a 15-year-old. The older one is blonde and petite (around 5'). I think of her when I hear stories like the one just discussed. Scary.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,085

    So with an independent Scotland in the EU - and a rump UK out - get ready for a whole spate of hysterical smuggling stories in what, five or six years?

    Nah, we'll build a wall and make Scots pay for it.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    LucyJones said:


    And what has actually happened is that the girl who was attacked has been charged whilst her assailant remains at liberty.

    Whether the fine is paid by the victim herself or not is almost irrelevant. What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found).

    You have to CATCH someone to charge them. FFS, read the article.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,242
    An unexpected insight into William Hague's failure as Conservative leader in this article:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-politics/12123271/Voters-are-very-angry-extremists-are-one-crisis-away-from-power.html

    When I was Conservative leader I used to discuss new policy ideas with Jeb Bush, then Governor of Florida, and found him a highly thoughtful and well-informed colleague.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,145
    edited 2016 26
    Robert Moore now following Cruz and Trump on ITV after Frei followed Trump on C4
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    One thought that occurred to me during the Frei piece was that Trump has hardly had a female opponent to campaign against so far. The only exception is Fiorina, who going by the Huff Post average has never polled more than 8% or better than fifth. Even so, do we know if the two have crossed swords at any time?

    He seems to have a particular issue with women having a go at him and gets personal very quickly. It would be useful to know if he has form against candidates too to gauge how he might go on against Hillary. I'm tempted to think he might blow his chances there and then, should he be nominated.

    Mr Herdson - the women who vote GOP already mostly like Trump. I have been shocked at how many highly educated women I know on the right do. For them, if he made nasty, sexist, personal attacks on Hillary, that would only increase their support for him.

    The one thing we should all have learnt about The Donald by now, is that his pisses on the rules and, for the most part, either gets away with it or gets yet another poll boost as it speaks to many of the frustrations tons of people across social structures have with an overly politically correct world.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,029

    One thought that occurred to me during the Frei piece was that Trump has hardly had a female opponent to campaign against so far. The only exception is Fiorina, who going by the Huff Post average has never polled more than 8% or better than fifth. Even so, do we know if the two have crossed swords at any time?

    The one heated moment between them was when Fiorina responded to his disparaging remarks about her looks. One of the few times Trump looked flustered.

    Sadly Fiorina's campaign has fizzled out since then. The Planned Parenthood row didn't do her any good.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4kX2tXvuVA
    Thanks. I get the impression there though that Trump didn't feel threatened or attacked, which is when he tends to go on the offensive (in both senses). I guess it may have to remain a known unknown for now.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    SeanT said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    No, You're fucking not. And I speak as the father of two daughters. I don't want them to grow up in a West where they are reduced to what they were: fearful chattels, hidebound, chastened, humiliated, unable to walk the streets as free and equal people.

    But that's where we are headed if the Muslim population exceeds 10-20%, and that will happen in our lifetimes, if not sooner, unless we STOP Muslim immigration now and start DEPORTING Muslims who will not assimilate to liberal values.

    That's it. That's the choice. Wanker lefties who pretend otherwise are liars. Islam does not integrate. It conquers, or at best forms nasty ghettos.

    But if women in the west want to stop this they need to wise up and use the best weapon they have. Which is not pepper spray. It is the vote. Women need to vote right, or hard right, in toto and en masse. Liberal lefties will never defend feminism, for them race trumps gender, that much is now clear.

    Vote right.
    You're correct, but sadly we're heading into oblivion because the majority are indoctrinated and can't handle the reality of our situation.
    No, No, Mr. Blue the majority are not indoctrinated and can handle the reality. They have just learned that our political masters cannot/will not cope with the reality and that the best way to get by is to shut up and keep your head down.

    Those South Yorkshire coppers, for example, who suppressed evidence, ignored complaints and even threatened complainants didn't join up to do that, but they found that telling the truth and staying true to their oath office was not a good career move, so they didn't.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    watford30 said:

    Dair said:

    MTimT said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    Not quite equivalent, as a gun is a lethal weapons whereas pepper spray is not and is to all intents and purposes a defensive only weapon.

    However, from a legal perspective, guilt and mitigating circumstances are separate considerations. She would be guilty of illegal possession of a firearm, but might get some consideration in sentencing for the circumstances in which her possession came to light.

    In the case of the Danish girl, I would hope that the mitigation would reduce any penalty to almost zero and that her case would spark a reasoned national debate about:
    1. the wisdom of banning pepper spray as a defensive weapon
    2. how to protect women from such assaults if circumstances have changed
    3. the legal protections for self-defence during assault
    Yes, agreed. It does seem ridiculous that pepper spray is unlawful to be carried in Denmark. However, didn't Tony Blair come close to banning it in this country as well?

    I wondered if it might be a source of anaphylaxis but a quite google search suggests not. So it appears a reasonable self-defence tool for people to carry.
    Pepper Spray is illegal in the UK.
    Certain of the mustard gases can be fatal, but generally only at high concentrations in confined spaces. Of course, if someone has another existing medical condition, the stress of being pepper sprayed could combine to be fatal.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Dair said:

    MTimT said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    Not quite equivalent, as a gun is a lethal weapons whereas pepper spray is not and is to all intents and purposes a defensive only weapon.

    However, from a legal perspective, guilt and mitigating circumstances are separate considerations. She would be guilty of illegal possession of a firearm, but might get some consideration in sentencing for the circumstances in which her possession came to light.

    In the case of the Danish girl, I would hope that the mitigation would reduce any penalty to almost zero and that her case would spark a reasoned national debate about:
    1. the wisdom of banning pepper spray as a defensive weapon
    2. how to protect women from such assaults if circumstances have changed
    3. the legal protections for self-defence during assault
    Yes, agreed. It does seem ridiculous that pepper spray is unlawful to be carried in Denmark. However, didn't Tony Blair come close to banning it in this country as well?

    I wondered if it might be a source of anaphylaxis but a quite google search suggests not. So it appears a reasonable self-defence tool for people to carry.
    Pepper spray is classed as a firearm under Section 5 b of the UK 1968 Firearms act:


    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/part/I/crossheading/prohibition-of-certain-weapons-and-control-of-arms-traffic
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,145

    HYUFD said:

    Tony Blair 'There is a little-noticed dimension which is that, in my opinion, if the UK votes to leave Europe, Scotland will vote to leave the UK. It is extremely serious for Great Britain.'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3417882/Tony-Blair-warns-Scotland-quit-UK-Britain-votes-leave-EU.html#ixzz3yOQAsSOD

    When one hears figures who held office in the past pontificating about anything, one's (or at least my reaction is) "Who cares" ..

    Do you care what Brown, Prezza, Mandleson... or any of the others who held office pre 2010, say these days, Blair.. Should be tried as a war crinimial,,, . Alistair Campbell.. zzzz.. etc etc they are yesterdays people.. just as Dave and Co will be in the not to distant future..

    The big question post office is , how much will the public loathe them
    Dave will do Ok methinks, history will not be kind to others of his time... poor old Cleggy...
    Other than Iraq most of the public think they did OK under Blair, EU ref is the greatest danger for Cameron
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:


    And what has actually happened is that the girl who was attacked has been charged whilst her assailant remains at liberty.

    Whether the fine is paid by the victim herself or not is almost irrelevant. What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found).

    You have to CATCH someone to charge them. FFS, read the article.
    Maybe you should try doing a bit of reading yourself before commenting. I wrote: "What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found)."




  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited 2016 26
    watford30 said:

    Dair said:

    MTimT said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    If that happened in the UK and the girl used an unlicensed firearm on her attacker, what should be done?
    Not quite equivalent, as a gun is a lethal weapons whereas pepper spray is not and is to all intents and purposes a defensive only weapon.

    However, from a legal perspective, guilt and mitigating circumstances are separate considerations. She would be guilty of illegal possession of a firearm, but might get some consideration in sentencing for the circumstances in which her possession came to light.

    In the case of the Danish girl, I would hope that the mitigation would reduce any penalty to almost zero and that her case would spark a reasoned national debate about:
    1. the wisdom of banning pepper spray as a defensive weapon
    2. how to protect women from such assaults if circumstances have changed
    3. the legal protections for self-defence during assault
    Yes, agreed. It does seem ridiculous that pepper spray is unlawful to be carried in Denmark. However, didn't Tony Blair come close to banning it in this country as well?

    I wondered if it might be a source of anaphylaxis but a quite google search suggests not. So it appears a reasonable self-defence tool for people to carry.
    Pepper Spray is illegal in the UK.
    My mistake.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    MTimT said:

    One thought that occurred to me during the Frei piece was that Trump has hardly had a female opponent to campaign against so far. The only exception is Fiorina, who going by the Huff Post average has never polled more than 8% or better than fifth. Even so, do we know if the two have crossed swords at any time?

    He seems to have a particular issue with women having a go at him and gets personal very quickly. It would be useful to know if he has form against candidates too to gauge how he might go on against Hillary. I'm tempted to think he might blow his chances there and then, should he be nominated.

    Mr Herdson - the women who vote GOP already mostly like Trump. I have been shocked at how many highly educated women I know on the right do. For them, if he made nasty, sexist, personal attacks on Hillary, that would only increase their support for him.

    The one thing we should all have learnt about The Donald by now, is that his pisses on the rules and, for the most part, either gets away with it or gets yet another poll boost as it speaks to many of the frustrations tons of people across social structures have with an overly politically correct world.
    According to last nights anti Trump attack act Donald rather likes and respects Hillary. Indeed they look rather loved up in one of the pictures.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:


    And what has actually happened is that the girl who was attacked has been charged whilst her assailant remains at liberty.

    Whether the fine is paid by the victim herself or not is almost irrelevant. What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found).

    You have to CATCH someone to charge them. FFS, read the article.
    Mr Dair, sometimes it is not about the facts or the practicalities, but the optics. In this case, the optics are very bad (regardless of the laws pertaining to pepper spray), namely:

    "young girl successfully fends off a sexual attacker and get punished for it".

    Now, drop your legal hat and try to sell that as a politician.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,598
    IIRC correctly there was a nasty case in Thailand of assailants disabling a victim with pepper spray and proceeding to beat her up and then rape her. Most weapons can be used in both offence and defence. Obviously there is an overwhelming case for mitigating circumstances here in the actual use, but in general an arms race between attackers and victims is undesirable.
  • CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    edited 2016 26
    Sandpit said:


    Except that is not necessarily true. For a start, Scotland may also vote to leave. Even if they don't, and the UK as a whole does, it would result in a second indy referendum, not independence per se.

    In any case, I'm warming to the idea of an England & Wales outside both the EU and the union with Scotland.

    No but it would increase the likelihood of it, though England would have effectively voted them out by default anyway
    The British state would like us to remain in the EU and for the British union to remain intact. Quelle surprise.

    The English (and Welsh) people would rather we became an independent nation again, even if that means reducing the British state to the good ol' Kingdom of England (which we can renew and name "England and Wales" in good spirit).

    Big business, the political elite, the SNP v. the English and Welsh people. That's the battle we face.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    LucyJones said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:


    And what has actually happened is that the girl who was attacked has been charged whilst her assailant remains at liberty.

    Whether the fine is paid by the victim herself or not is almost irrelevant. What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found).

    You have to CATCH someone to charge them. FFS, read the article.
    Maybe you should try doing a bit of reading yourself before commenting. I wrote: "What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found)."
    You understand that since her attacker cannot be found means they didn't catch him, right?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:

    One thought that occurred to me during the Frei piece was that Trump has hardly had a female opponent to campaign against so far. The only exception is Fiorina, who going by the Huff Post average has never polled more than 8% or better than fifth. Even so, do we know if the two have crossed swords at any time?

    He seems to have a particular issue with women having a go at him and gets personal very quickly. It would be useful to know if he has form against candidates too to gauge how he might go on against Hillary. I'm tempted to think he might blow his chances there and then, should he be nominated.

    Mr Herdson - the women who vote GOP already mostly like Trump. I have been shocked at how many highly educated women I know on the right do. For them, if he made nasty, sexist, personal attacks on Hillary, that would only increase their support for him.

    The one thing we should all have learnt about The Donald by now, is that his pisses on the rules and, for the most part, either gets away with it or gets yet another poll boost as it speaks to many of the frustrations tons of people across social structures have with an overly politically correct world.
    According to last nights anti Trump attack act Donald rather likes and respects Hillary. Indeed they look rather loved up in one of the pictures.
    The Donald has been very close with the Clintons in the past - part of the reason some in the GOP still harbour suspicions that he is a front for the Clintons aimed at derailing the GOP campaign against her.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    MTimT said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:


    And what has actually happened is that the girl who was attacked has been charged whilst her assailant remains at liberty.

    Whether the fine is paid by the victim herself or not is almost irrelevant. What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found).

    You have to CATCH someone to charge them. FFS, read the article.
    Mr Dair, sometimes it is not about the facts or the practicalities, but the optics. In this case, the optics are very bad (regardless of the laws pertaining to pepper spray), namely:

    "young girl successfully fends off a sexual attacker and get punished for it".

    Now, drop your legal hat and try to sell that as a politician.
    It's really nothing to do with any legal hat (that I don't possess). It is about standing up to the Outrage Bus which needs tackled wherever it is found.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:


    And what has actually happened is that the girl who was attacked has been charged whilst her assailant remains at liberty.

    Whether the fine is paid by the victim herself or not is almost irrelevant. What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found).

    You have to CATCH someone to charge them. FFS, read the article.
    Maybe you should try doing a bit of reading yourself before commenting. I wrote: "What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found)."
    You understand that since her attacker cannot be found means they didn't catch him, right?
    So how can it be proved that he was actually "sprayed"?
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2016 26
    Dair said:

    MTimT said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:


    And what has actually happened is that the girl who was attacked has been charged whilst her assailant remains at liberty.

    Whether the fine is paid by the victim herself or not is almost irrelevant. What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found).

    You have to CATCH someone to charge them. FFS, read the article.
    Mr Dair, sometimes it is not about the facts or the practicalities, but the optics. In this case, the optics are very bad (regardless of the laws pertaining to pepper spray), namely:

    "young girl successfully fends off a sexual attacker and get punished for it".

    Now, drop your legal hat and try to sell that as a politician.
    It's really nothing to do with any legal hat (that I don't possess). It is about standing up to the Outrage Bus which needs tackled wherever it is found.
    I take it you're not bothered by people carrying illegal weapons then?
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:


    And what has actually happened is that the girl who was attacked has been charged whilst her assailant remains at liberty.

    Whether the fine is paid by the victim herself or not is almost irrelevant. What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found).

    You have to CATCH someone to charge them. FFS, read the article.
    Maybe you should try doing a bit of reading yourself before commenting. I wrote: "What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found)."
    You understand that since her attacker cannot be found means they didn't catch him, right?
    FFS! Of course I bloody do. I understand the logic of why the attacker wasn't charged but was commenting on, as someone else put it, the "optics" of this story.


  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:


    And what has actually happened is that the girl who was attacked has been charged whilst her assailant remains at liberty.

    Whether the fine is paid by the victim herself or not is almost irrelevant. What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found).

    You have to CATCH someone to charge them. FFS, read the article.
    Maybe you should try doing a bit of reading yourself before commenting. I wrote: "What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found)."
    You understand that since her attacker cannot be found means they didn't catch him, right?
    So how can it be proved that he was actually "sprayed"?
    I suspect she incriminated herself when reporting the matter to the police.

    From what I've read here, she is quite fortunate to be in Denmark as it seems in the UK she would be facing a trial where incarceration would be a possibility (unlikely, I would hope, but possible).
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    SeanT said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    No, You're fucking not. And I speak as the father of two daughters. I don't want them to grow up in a West where they are reduced to what they were: fearful chattels, hidebound, chastened, humiliated, unable to walk the streets as free and equal people.

    But that's where we are headed if the Muslim population exceeds 10-20%, and that will happen in our lifetimes, if not sooner, unless we STOP Muslim immigration now and start DEPORTING Muslims who will not assimilate to liberal values.

    That's it. That's the choice. Wanker lefties who pretend otherwise are liars. Islam does not integrate. It conquers, or at best forms nasty ghettos.

    But if women in the west want to stop this they need to wise up and use the best weapon they have. Which is not pepper spray. It is the vote. Women need to vote right, or hard right, in toto and en masse. Liberal lefties will never defend feminism, for them race trumps gender, that much is now clear.

    Vote right.
    You're correct, but sadly we're heading into oblivion because the majority are indoctrinated and can't handle the reality of our situation.
    The current Muslim population in the UK is 4.5%. The fertility rate of muslim women is falling.
    The muslim population of the entire world is 22%, and clearly this includes countries where the population is 100%.
    As far as I can see those muslims of a militant tendency are busy killing each other more tha n anything else.
  • CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    edited 2016 26

    SeanT said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    No, You're fucking not. And I speak as the father of two daughters. I don't want them to grow up in a West where they are reduced to what they were: fearful chattels, hidebound, chastened, humiliated, unable to walk the streets as free and equal people.

    But that's where we are headed if the Muslim population exceeds 10-20%, and that will happen in our lifetimes, if not sooner, unless we STOP Muslim immigration now and start DEPORTING Muslims who will not assimilate to liberal values.

    That's it. That's the choice. Wanker lefties who pretend otherwise are liars. Islam does not integrate. It conquers, or at best forms nasty ghettos.

    But if women in the west want to stop this they need to wise up and use the best weapon they have. Which is not pepper spray. It is the vote. Women need to vote right, or hard right, in toto and en masse. Liberal lefties will never defend feminism, for them race trumps gender, that much is now clear.

    Vote right.
    You're correct, but sadly we're heading into oblivion because the majority are indoctrinated and can't handle the reality of our situation.
    No, No, Mr. Blue the majority are not indoctrinated and can handle the reality. They have just learned that our political masters cannot/will not cope with the reality and that the best way to get by is to shut up and keep your head down.

    Those South Yorkshire coppers, for example, who suppressed evidence, ignored complaints and even threatened complainants didn't join up to do that, but they found that telling the truth and staying true to their oath office was not a good career move, so they didn't.
    We really are doomed. This will make the Fall of Rome seem like the famous rained-off flower competition of June '71 in Little Storping in the Swuff.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    watford30 said:

    Dair said:

    MTimT said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:


    And what has actually happened is that the girl who was attacked has been charged whilst her assailant remains at liberty.

    Whether the fine is paid by the victim herself or not is almost irrelevant. What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found).

    You have to CATCH someone to charge them. FFS, read the article.
    Mr Dair, sometimes it is not about the facts or the practicalities, but the optics. In this case, the optics are very bad (regardless of the laws pertaining to pepper spray), namely:

    "young girl successfully fends off a sexual attacker and get punished for it".

    Now, drop your legal hat and try to sell that as a politician.
    It's really nothing to do with any legal hat (that I don't possess). It is about standing up to the Outrage Bus which needs tackled wherever it is found.
    I take it you're not bothered by people carrying illegal weapons then?
    I think you've not understood what I've posted at all.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    If there is a rise in sex assaults and the police are unable to police them properly then it don't make any sense for pepper spray to be illegal. Women need to be able to defend themselves when needed.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,482
    SeanT said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    No, You're fucking not. And I speak as the father of two daughters. I don't want them to grow up in a West where they are reduced to what they were: fearful chattels, hidebound, chastened, humiliated, unable to walk the streets as free and equal people.

    But that's where we are headed if the Muslim population exceeds 10-20%, and that will happen in our lifetimes, if not sooner, unless we STOP Muslim immigration now and start DEPORTING Muslims who will not assimilate to liberal values.

    That's it. That's the choice. Wanker lefties who pretend otherwise are liars. Islam does not integrate. It conquers, or at best forms nasty ghettos.

    But if women in the west want to stop this they need to wise up and use the best weapon they have. Which is not pepper spray. It is the vote. Women need to vote right, or hard right, in toto and en masse. Liberal lefties will never defend feminism, for them race trumps gender, that much is now clear.

    Vote right.
    Whilst I don't entirely disagree with your recommendation, I find your thesis flawed from a behavioural point of view. You deal only with 'antecedents' - those things that lead to the initial behaviour - namely religion, culture, exposure to Western society. You forget consequences. Most behaviour is formed by consequences, not antecedents. If the consequences of doing these things were severe, the behaviour would soon stop. The problem is there are no negative consequences.

  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    LucyJones said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:


    And what has actually happened is that the girl who was attacked has been charged whilst her assailant remains at liberty.

    Whether the fine is paid by the victim herself or not is almost irrelevant. What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found).

    You have to CATCH someone to charge them. FFS, read the article.
    Maybe you should try doing a bit of reading yourself before commenting. I wrote: "What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found)."
    You understand that since her attacker cannot be found means they didn't catch him, right?
    FFS! Of course I bloody do. I understand the logic of why the attacker wasn't charged but was commenting on, as someone else put it, the "optics" of this story.
    So the Police and Legal System should not be carried out with respect to the law but be done in terms of public opinion?

    That's the very reason politicians regularly make such bad laws in the first place (of which pepper spray bans may well be one example of).
  • CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840

    If there is a rise in sex assaults and the police are unable to police them properly then it don't make any sense for pepper spray to be illegal. Women need to be able to defend themselves when needed.

    I wonder when people will realise that all this would not have come about/not be necessary if we didn't have open borders to hundreds of millions of, frankly, uncivilised people.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    If there is a rise in sex assaults and the police are unable to police them properly then it don't make any sense for pepper spray to be illegal. Women need to be able to defend themselves when needed.

    Though of course pepper spray can be used to diable and rob/rape a victim too.

    Far better to use this legal alternative, which also stains the attacker for several days thereby labelling them for the police to find and charge:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/review/B00DSP708O/R1NKH2GLZ1U637/ref=cm_cr_dp_aw_rvw_1?ie=UTF8&cursor=1
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited 2016 26
    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:

    Dair said:

    LucyJones said:


    And what has actually happened is that the girl who was attacked has been charged whilst her assailant remains at liberty.

    Whether the fine is paid by the victim herself or not is almost irrelevant. What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found).

    You have to CATCH someone to charge them. FFS, read the article.
    Maybe you should try doing a bit of reading yourself before commenting. I wrote: "What we are seeing here is a young girl who has been sexually attacked and yet she is the only one in this situation who is being treated as an actual criminal (since her attacker cannot be found)."
    You understand that since her attacker cannot be found means they didn't catch him, right?
    FFS! Of course I bloody do. I understand the logic of why the attacker wasn't charged but was commenting on, as someone else put it, the "optics" of this story.
    So the Police and Legal System should not be carried out with respect to the law but be done in terms of public opinion?

    That's the very reason politicians regularly make such bad laws in the first place (of which pepper spray bans may well be one example of).
    Have you ever heard of the phrase "fiddling while Rome burns"?
  • CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    edited 2016 26

    SeanT said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    No, You're fucking not. And I speak as the father of two daughters. I don't want them to grow up in a West where they are reduced to what they were: fearful chattels, hidebound, chastened, humiliated, unable to walk the streets as free and equal people.

    But that's where we are headed if the Muslim population exceeds 10-20%, and that will happen in our lifetimes, if not sooner, unless we STOP Muslim immigration now and start DEPORTING Muslims who will not assimilate to liberal values.

    That's it. That's the choice. Wanker lefties who pretend otherwise are liars. Islam does not integrate. It conquers, or at best forms nasty ghettos.

    But if women in the west want to stop this they need to wise up and use the best weapon they have. Which is not pepper spray. It is the vote. Women need to vote right, or hard right, in toto and en masse. Liberal lefties will never defend feminism, for them race trumps gender, that much is now clear.

    Vote right.
    You're correct, but sadly we're heading into oblivion because the majority are indoctrinated and can't handle the reality of our situation.
    The current Muslim population in the UK is 4.5%. The fertility rate of muslim women is falling.
    The muslim population of the entire world is 22%, and clearly this includes countries where the population is 100%.
    As far as I can see those muslims of a militant tendency are busy killing each other more tha n anything else.
    Wow. The Denial is strong with this one.

    The Muslim population in the UK is rising rapidly. The fertility rate is higher than the rest of the population. Net migration continues at a pace.

    Your 4.5% figure comes from the 2011 census - **actually** the figure in 2011 was 4.83% - and the 2001 census had a figure of 3.07%. The 2021 census will show it around 7% probably.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#Demography_and_ethnic_background
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164

    If there is a rise in sex assaults and the police are unable to police them properly then it don't make any sense for pepper spray to be illegal. Women need to be able to defend themselves when needed.

    I wonder when people will realise that all this would not have come about/not be necessary if we didn't have open borders to hundreds of millions of, frankly, uncivilised people.
    Possibly not worded in the same way 'Are you thinking what we're thinking?', but the '05 Tory campaign issues would probably play really, really well right now.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    SeanT said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    No, You're fucking not. And I speak as the father of two daughters. I don't want them to grow up in a West where they are reduced to what they were: fearful chattels, hidebound, chastened, humiliated, unable to walk the streets as free and equal people.

    But that's where we are headed if the Muslim population exceeds 10-20%, and that will happen in our lifetimes, if not sooner, unless we STOP Muslim immigration now and start DEPORTING Muslims who will not assimilate to liberal values.

    That's it. That's the choice. Wanker lefties who pretend otherwise are liars. Islam does not integrate. It conquers, or at best forms nasty ghettos.

    But if women in the west want to stop this they need to wise up and use the best weapon they have. Which is not pepper spray. It is the vote. Women need to vote right, or hard right, in toto and en masse. Liberal lefties will never defend feminism, for them race trumps gender, that much is now clear.

    Vote right.
    You're correct, but sadly we're heading into oblivion because the majority are indoctrinated and can't handle the reality of our situation.
    No, No, Mr. Blue the majority are not indoctrinated and can handle the reality. They have just learned that our political masters cannot/will not cope with the reality and that the best way to get by is to shut up and keep your head down.

    Those South Yorkshire coppers, for example, who suppressed evidence, ignored complaints and even threatened complainants didn't join up to do that, but they found that telling the truth and staying true to their oath office was not a good career move, so they didn't.
    We really are doomed. This will make the Fall of Rome seem like the famous rained-off flower competition of June '71 in Little Storping in the Swuff.
    I don't think we are doomed, Mr. Blue, we just need to stop listening to surrender monkey politicians and start voting for those that are actually on our side. The nobs are in it for their own benefit so they will soon get the message. It happened in Scotland so it can happen in England. The EU referendum would be a good first step.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,029

    SeanT said:

    LucyJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for using pepper spray to fend off her assailant."

    http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine

    Are women and girls just meant to put up with this sort of thing from now on?

    No, You're fucking not. And I speak as the father of two daughters. I don't want them to grow up in a West where they are reduced to what they were: fearful chattels, hidebound, chastened, humiliated, unable to walk the streets as free and equal people.

    But that's where we are headed if the Muslim population exceeds 10-20%, and that will happen in our lifetimes, if not sooner, unless we STOP Muslim immigration now and start DEPORTING Muslims who will not assimilate to liberal values.

    That's it. That's the choice. Wanker lefties who pretend otherwise are liars. Islam does not integrate. It conquers, or at best forms nasty ghettos.

    But if women in the west want to stop this they need to wise up and use the best weapon they have. Which is not pepper spray. It is the vote. Women need to vote right, or hard right, in toto and en masse. Liberal lefties will never defend feminism, for them race trumps gender, that much is now clear.

    Vote right.
    Whilst I don't entirely disagree with your recommendation, I find your thesis flawed from a behavioural point of view. You deal only with 'antecedents' - those things that lead to the initial behaviour - namely religion, culture, exposure to Western society. You forget consequences. Most behaviour is formed by consequences, not antecedents. If the consequences of doing these things were severe, the behaviour would soon stop. The problem is there are no negative consequences.

    *Anticipated* consequences.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    If there is a rise in sex assaults and the police are unable to police them properly then it don't make any sense for pepper spray to be illegal. Women need to be able to defend themselves when needed.

    What would happen if a country's police force are overwhelmed? Would the army have to be deployed?
This discussion has been closed.