The strike will go ahead tommorow. It has to do so or the 3 month rule since the ballot requires a further one. Ironically it is government legislation that is forcing the deadline.
I think the doctors have such a head-start with the public that it doesn't matter but I wouldn't use that line if I were them. It implies they are going ahead for arcane tactical reasons. Also, why be afraid of a new ballot? Is the dispute effectively settled and they don't want to put it to another vote? Finally, the Government isn't forcing the strike. It will be a slow full toss to Hunt to suggest that.
Over at Comment is Free, Joris Luendijk wants the EU to threaten the UK with massive economic sanctions if we vote for Brexit. He seems to be chewing the carpet in his anger.
I hope they follow his advice. It would guarantee a victory for Leave.
Yeah...this is going to work:
This is why the best way forward for Europe is to threaten to hit the English as hard as we can. We must stop treating membership of the EU as a favour granted by England, and instead make the English feel their vulnerability and dependence.
Artistic merit is in the eye of the beholder, whether Motorhead or Bowie or Bach, but Bowie has been far more culturally influential. Indeed British popular music is one of our most successful exports. For all their faults, Britain's creative people in the music, acting and arts generally are very good earners for the country. Bowie has been amongst the greatest of these even if he has done little of note over the last few decades.
Over at Comment is Free, Joris Luendijk wants the EU to threaten the UK with massive economic sanctions if we vote for Brexit. He seems to be chewing the carpet in his anger.
I hope they follow his advice. It would guarantee a victory for Leave.
Yeah...this is going to work:
This is why the best way forward for Europe is to threaten to hit the English as hard as we can. We must stop treating membership of the EU as a favour granted by England, and instead make the English feel their vulnerability and dependence.
Over at Comment is Free, Joris Luendijk wants the EU to threaten the UK with massive economic sanctions if we vote for Brexit. He seems to be chewing the carpet in his anger.
I hope they follow his advice. It would guarantee a victory for Leave.
Yeah...this is going to work:
This is why the best way forward for Europe is to threaten to hit the English as hard as we can. We must stop treating membership of the EU as a favour granted by England, and instead make the English feel their vulnerability and dependence.
On topic any polling that has Liam Fox at 19% cannot be taken seriously as Conhome themselves seem to noted. It is also very likely that Javid will back Osborne.
At the moment the final 2 if this comes to pass looks to me to be Osborne and May and I would expect Osborne to win such a contest although it might be close.
After May, with Boris no longer being Mayor I would expect him to be given a fairly senior post provided he stays onside in the referendum. This might give him a better chance but only if Cameron plays it long. If he resigns shortly after the referendum, for whatever reason, I think Boris will not have the track record to make it to the final 2. A Boris/Osborne play off in 2019 would be interesting.
I don't see why not, Fox was polling closer to Cameron than either Clarke or Davis in 2005 members polls as well as almost coming second witj MPs and is the highest confirmed Outer in the above named. If the UK voted Leave he would certainly be in the frame
Saturday was the 100th anniversary of the ending of the Dardanelles offensive.
Another reason for us not to let Turkey into the EU.
On topic, I suspect David Davis and the usual suspects will try and topple Dave no matter the outcome of the referendum.
If Leave make this about toppling Cameron then that'll get the blue rinse mob behind Dave even if they are ardent leavers. And Leave needs a majority of Tories to vote for leave to win.
Modern Love was my fave Bowie song. Played it at my engagement party.
You don't seem to understand the dispute very well. Doctors already work these hours. The dispute is over a number of contractual issues (the BMA JDC does not agree that 15/16 issues are agreed) but the proposed changes cut the take home pay of the Doctors that do work the unsocial hours by about 20%. The "pay protection" does not cover a very large proportion of Junior Doctors.
The strike will go ahead tommorow. It has to do so or the 3 month rule since the ballot requires a further one. Ironically it is government legislation that is forcing the deadline.
98% of 37000 Junior Doctors are not ideological radicals. All they want is existing terms and conditions to be maintained. The strike ballot happened because Hunt said he would impose the new contract from August (nearly all Junior Doctors postgraduate training schemes start the first Wednesday in August).
Incidentally, recruitment for those August starts is underway over the next few months and bearing in mind that some specialities like GP, Obstetics and Emergency Dept still have unfilled posts from last years rounds it does not bode well for this year.
I do understand the dispute. My point was that the same thing has being happening in the private sector for a decade or more and that we had to adjust to it.
The NHS is literally killing people at the weekend because it doesn't want to reform, or do you dispute the statistics?
My final point was that, whatever the merits of the doctors' argument, they need to find spokesmen who don't come across as either middle-class Len McCluskeys or 30 year olds complaining they can't afford to buy a house in Zone 1. If there was a more polite discourse then maybe the doctors would gain more public sympathy.
Haha! Merkel is negotiating with Turkey, Dave says Turkey is "vital" to us, is this really where Remain is? I do hope so, because I'm sure our electorate will welcome 90m Turks with open arms.
A new member requires the unanimous agreement of all the current member states. No Greek or (more importantly) Cypriot leader could possibly vote to let Turkey in. And even if they did, their national parliament would not ratify it.
Anyone claiming that Turkey has any chance of joining the EU in the next two decades is either deluded or lying. Which are you?
You should ask that question of the PM, I'm simply passing on what he said, the same applies to Merkel.
But this is where Remain is at now, the ramifications of us staying in the EU are enormous and detrimental, complacency has been overtaken by panic. Just read the abuse aimed at me over the last hour simply because I put up a link or two.
One of the main themes of the next general election will be you can't trust Corbyn with the security of his Twitter account the country. That might be undermined if Liam Fox is leader given the reasons he had to resign as Defence Secretary.
The strike will go ahead tommorow. It has to do so or the 3 month rule since the ballot requires a further one. Ironically it is government legislation that is forcing the deadline.
I think the doctors have such a head-start with the public that it doesn't matter but I wouldn't use that line if I were them. It implies they are going ahead for arcane tactical reasons. Also, why be afraid of a new ballot? Is the dispute effectively settled and they don't want to put it to another vote? Finally, the Government isn't forcing the strike. It will be a slow full toss to Hunt to suggest that.
It is not arcane tactics. The 3 month cut off meant that negotiations had to stop on Jan 4 in order to give required notice of the strike.
Doctors are applying for August jobs now, in some specialities the applications are already closed. The appointments will be confirmed mostly before Easter. Junior Doctors need to know their pay and terms for these posts. The only way a re-ballot, or further negotiations before a strike, could occur would be for Hunt to withdraw his threat of August 2016 imposition.
Incidentally, four months (February agreement, June vote) is nowhere near enough time.
There were two years for the Scottish referendum. I'm not saying it has to be a mirror image of that, just that having a sixth of the time is not reasonable.
Saturday was the 100th anniversary of the ending of the Dardanelles offensive.
Another reason for us not to let Turkey into the EU.
On topic, I suspect David Davis and the usual suspects will try and topple Dave no matter the outcome of the referendum.
If Leave make this about toppling Cameron then that'll get the blue rinse mob behind Dave even if they are ardent leavers. And Leave needs a majority of Tories to vote for leave to win.
Modern Love was my fave Bowie song. Played it at my engagement party.
We've already seen reports there will be challenges to Cameron in the event of him winning, on the basis of what he will presumably do during the campaign, if memory serves.
Saturday was the 100th anniversary of the ending of the Dardanelles offensive.
Another reason for us not to let Turkey into the EU.
On topic, I suspect David Davis and the usual suspects will try and topple Dave no matter the outcome of the referendum.
If Leave make this about toppling Cameron then that'll get the blue rinse mob behind Dave even if they are ardent leavers. And Leave needs a majority of Tories to vote for leave to win.
Modern Love was my fave Bowie song. Played it at my engagement party.
We've already seen reports there will be challenges to Cameron in the event of him winning, on the basis of what he will presumably do during the campaign, if memory serves.
Yes. Some Tories won't ever forgive Dave winning a majority nor will they want him to leave on his own terms, undefeated.
You don't seem to understand the dispute very well. Doctors already work these hours. The dispute is over a number of contractual issues (the BMA JDC does not agree that 15/16 issues are agreed) but the proposed changes cut the take home pay of the Doctors that do work the unsocial hours by about 20%. The "pay protection" does not cover a very large proportion of Junior Doctors.
The strike will go ahead tommorow. It has to do so or the 3 month rule since the ballot requires a further one. Ironically it is government legislation that is forcing the deadline.
98% of 37000 Junior Doctors are not ideological radicals. All they want is existing terms and conditions to be maintained. The strike ballot happened because Hunt said he would impose the new contract from August (nearly all Junior Doctors postgraduate training schemes start the first Wednesday in August).
Incidentally, recruitment for those August starts is underway over the next few months and bearing in mind that some specialities like GP, Obstetics and Emergency Dept still have unfilled posts from last years rounds it does not bode well for this year.
I do understand the dispute. My point was that the same thing has being happening in the private sector for a decade or more and that we had to adjust to it.
The NHS is literally killing people at the weekend because it doesn't want to reform, or do you dispute the statistics?
My final point was that, whatever the merits of the doctors' argument, they need to find spokesmen who don't come across as either middle-class Len McCluskeys or 30 year olds complaining they can't afford to buy a house in Zone 1. If there was a more polite discourse then maybe the doctors would gain more public sympathy.
I do dispute the statistics, indeed the author of the paper cited by Hunt pointed that there are many other factors in the "weekend effect". The phenomenon is international, being well documented across the world, almost certainly including the UAE.
Haha! Merkel is negotiating with Turkey, Dave says Turkey is "vital" to us, is this really where Remain is? I do hope so, because I'm sure our electorate will welcome 90m Turks with open arms.
A new member requires the unanimous agreement of all the current member states. No Greek or (more importantly) Cypriot leader could possibly vote to let Turkey in. And even if they did, their national parliament would not ratify it.
Anyone claiming that Turkey has any chance of joining the EU in the next two decades is either deluded or lying. Which are you?
You should ask that question of the PM, I'm simply passing on what he said, the same applies to Merkel.
But this is where Remain is at now, the ramifications of us staying in the EU are enormous and detrimental, complacency has been overtaken by panic. Just read the abuse aimed at me over the last hour simply because I put up a link or two.
What Merkel and the PM say are not what you seem to think they say.
As for 'abuse': you seem to take anyone pointing our your position is incorrect as personal abuse. Which is a ridiculous thing to do (doubtless you will now class that as personal abuse).
Given both RCS and myself are likely to vote for 'leave' (*), I'm not sure how your last line really follows. What I want is a debate based on sane discussion of facts, not wild, unsubstantiated claims. Which, as you have shown over the last hour or two, is all you have got.
You don't seem to understand the dispute very well. Doctors already work these hours. The dispute is over a number of contractual issues (the BMA JDC does not agree that 15/16 issues are agreed) but the proposed changes cut the take home pay of the Doctors that do work the unsocial hours by about 20%. The "pay protection" does not cover a very large proportion of Junior Doctors.
The strike will go ahead tommorow. It has to do so or the 3 month rule since the ballot requires a further one. Ironically it is government legislation that is forcing the deadline.
98% of 37000 Junior Doctors are not ideological radicals. All they want is existing terms and conditions to be maintained. The strike ballot happened because Hunt said he would impose the new contract from August (nearly all Junior Doctors postgraduate training schemes start the first Wednesday in August).
Incidentally, recruitment for those August starts is underway over the next few months and bearing in mind that some specialities like GP, Obstetics and Emergency Dept still have unfilled posts from last years rounds it does not bode well for this year.
I do understand the dispute. My point was that the same thing has being happening in the private sector for a decade or more and that we had to adjust to it.
The NHS is literally killing people at the weekend because it doesn't want to reform, or do you dispute the statistics?
My final point was that, whatever the merits of the doctors' argument, they need to find spokesmen who don't come across as either middle-class Len McCluskeys or 30 year olds complaining they can't afford to buy a house in Zone 1. If there was a more polite discourse then maybe the doctors would gain more public sympathy.
I do dispute the statistics, indeed the author of the paper cited by Hunt pointed that there are many other factors in the "weekend effect". The phenomenon is international, being well documented across the world, almost certainly including the UAE.
So we should just live with it then? If there are other factors, how about we address those *as well*?
Nothing to see here, doctor knows best, now sit still and wait your turn.
Haha! Merkel is negotiating with Turkey, Dave says Turkey is "vital" to us, is this really where Remain is? I do hope so, because I'm sure our electorate will welcome 90m Turks with open arms.
A new member requires the unanimous agreement of all the current member states. No Greek or (more importantly) Cypriot leader could possibly vote to let Turkey in. And even if they did, their national parliament would not ratify it.
Anyone claiming that Turkey has any chance of joining the EU in the next two decades is either deluded or lying. Which are you?
You should ask that question of the PM, I'm simply passing on what he said, the same applies to Merkel.
But this is where Remain is at now, the ramifications of us staying in the EU are enormous and detrimental, complacency has been overtaken by panic. Just read the abuse aimed at me over the last hour simply because I put up a link or two.
You seem to delight in making yourself a martyr - I for one am voting for Leave but your comments on turkey were merely challenged, correctly in my view not least because what the leaders said is not going as far as what you claimed, but even if you disagree, you insist on assuming those who rebutted you did so because they are remainers, that is to say partly for ulterior motivation. Have you received some abuse? Yes, it's the Internet, alas, but you appear to give as much as you get, and invite it, so I don't know why you profess surprise or upset at it.
Honestly I wonder how I transitioned to Leave in the past 18 months, given how prevalent that sort of attitude is. Plenty of hostility and obfuscation from remainers of course, again it is the Internet, but that 'woe is me' attitude is far more typical of my own side in the EU debate.
Incidentally, four months (February agreement, June vote) is nowhere near enough time.
There were two years for the Scottish referendum. I'm not saying it has to be a mirror image of that, just that having a sixth of the time is not reasonable.
Don't be silly. Indeed I cannot believe you are being in the least serious. An entire General Election campaign can be done in a month. Do you want to bore the entire nation to death?
Over at Comment is Free, Joris Luendijk wants the EU to threaten the UK with massive economic sanctions if we vote for Brexit. He seems to be chewing the carpet in his anger.
I hope they follow his advice. It would guarantee a victory for Leave.
You don't seem to understand the dispute very well. Doctors already work these hours. The dispute is over a number of contractual issues (the BMA JDC does not agree that 15/16 issues are agreed) but the proposed changes cut the take home pay of the Doctors that do work the unsocial hours by about 20%. The "pay protection" does not cover a very large proportion of Junior Doctors.
The strike will go ahead tommorow. It has to do so or the 3 month rule since the ballot requires a further one. Ironically it is government legislation that is forcing the deadline.
98% of 37000 Junior Doctors are not ideological radicals. All they want is existing terms and conditions to be maintained. The strike ballot happened because Hunt said he would impose the new contract from August (nearly all Junior Doctors postgraduate training schemes start the first Wednesday in August).
Incidentally, recruitment for those August starts is underway over the next few months and bearing in mind that some specialities like GP, Obstetics and Emergency Dept still have unfilled posts from last years rounds it does not bode well for this year.
I do understand the dispute. My point was that the same thing has being happening in the private sector for a decade or more and that we had to adjust to it.
The NHS is literally killing people at the weekend because it doesn't want to reform, or do you dispute the statistics?
My final point was that, whatever the merits of the doctors' argument, they need to find spokesmen who don't come across as either middle-class Len McCluskeys or 30 year olds complaining they can't afford to buy a house in Zone 1. If there was a more polite discourse then maybe the doctors would gain more public sympathy.
I do dispute the statistics, indeed the author of the paper cited by Hunt pointed that there are many other factors in the "weekend effect". The phenomenon is international, being well documented across the world, almost certainly including the UAE.
So we should just live with it then? If there are other factors, how about we address those *as well*?
Nothing to see here, doctor knows best, now sit still and wait your turn.
One of the BMA's major calls is for the government to explain what it means by a 7 day NHS. Does it mean elective as well as emergency services (which are already 7 days)? And how can we increase staffing at weekends without adversely affecting in-week services?
A 7 day NHS makes for a good soundbite, but the substance is not there behind the slogan, and neither is the nessecary funding.
You don't seem to understand the dispute very well. Doctors already work these hours. The dispute is over a number of contractual issues (the BMA JDC does not agree that 15/16 issues are agreed) but the proposed changes cut the take home pay of the Doctors that do work the unsocial hours by about 20%. The "pay protection" does not cover a very large proportion of Junior Doctors.
The strike will go ahead tommorow. It has to do so or the 3 month rule since the ballot requires a further one. Ironically it is government legislation that is forcing the deadline.
98% of 37000 Junior Doctors are not ideological radicals. All they want is existing terms and conditions to be maintained. The strike ballot happened because Hunt said he would impose the new contract from August (nearly all Junior Doctors postgraduate training schemes start the first Wednesday in August).
Incidentally, recruitment for those August starts is underway over the next few months and bearing in mind that some specialities like GP, Obstetics and Emergency Dept still have unfilled posts from last years rounds it does not bode well for this year.
I do understand the dispute. My point was that the same thing has being happening in the private sector for a decade or more and that we had to adjust to it.
The NHS is literally killing people at the weekend because it doesn't want to reform, or do you dispute the statistics?
My final point was that, whatever the merits of the doctors' argument, they need to find spokesmen who don't come across as either middle-class Len McCluskeys or 30 year olds complaining they can't afford to buy a house in Zone 1. If there was a more polite discourse then maybe the doctors would gain more public sympathy.
I do dispute the statistics, indeed the author of the paper cited by Hunt pointed that there are many other factors in the "weekend effect". The phenomenon is international, being well documented across the world, almost certainly including the UAE.
If it's a Worldwide phenomenon then the "Best in the World" NHS should be a the forefront of addressing it, no?
Anyone who's ever lived abroad can see that the NHS is close to the worst healthcare model. Only the USA is as bad. It's a monolithic organisation clearly being run for those who work in it, rather than those who use it and pay for it.
Mr. Flightpath, during an election campaign, all other politics stops.
The referendum campaign will happen at the same time as normal politics continues.
Furthermore, people had years to consider the likes of Miliband and Cameron and Clegg (last time), but the new deal on the EU will, perhaps, only emerge next month.
I've been saying on here for ages that Cameron has made this all about him, im convinced there's plenty of Labour voters ambivalent about the EU that will give him a kicking.
I think that's a real danger and Cameron sees it. "Press this button about something you don't much care about and you can sack the PM" would appeal to at least 5-10% of Labour voters. So saying he'll stay on is probably intended to defuse it as far as he can. But as he's going anyway it seems a bit irrelevant - I assume he merely means "I'll stay on for a bit", as PfP says.
Even as a diehard EU supporter, it seems to me that if we vote Leave then we need someone who thought it a good idea to be leading the negotiations, so I can't see him staying for long after that. An envoi at the Conference in October followed by a leadership election in the winter? For a postal ballot the usual snags about winter don't apply.
On the doctors' dispute, I'm surprised that Carlotta and Sandpit think working at 6am or late evening or weekends is the new normal. Sure, restaurants do to some extent (though American friends think it's weird how most shut down at 1030-11 even in London), but that's always been seen as a snag of working in that industry. I'll do it myself for my NGO as required, but I see that as a director's duty rather than something routine. The supposition that the public will back politicians vs doctors and Hunt is a therefore a good bet for Leader seems quite a leap to me.
How can anyone dispute that Turkey is "vital" to us? It is looking after more than 2 million Syrian refugees, roughly double the number that have come to the whole of Europe so far. We very much want them to stay there and that requires their co-operation.
Turkey is a large, relatively stable Muslim country and a very important player in middle eastern politics. Their policies have a huge impact and are not entirely to our liking at the moment. Their focus on the Kurds causes us difficulties as does their oil trade with ISIS and the shooting down of the Russian bomber was not exactly helpful. But there is no doubt that if a solution is to be found Turkey will play a very important part and we need to work closely with them.
There is no chance of them joining the EU in the foreseeable future but their trading relationship with the EU remains important for both sides. When I have been on holiday there the Euro was a second informal currency accepted by all shops, restaurants and taxi drivers. They are very much in the ambit of the EU's sphere of influence and it is in our interests for them to stay there.
Cameron pointing this out is doing no more than stating the obvious.
Proportionately Lebanon is looking after more than Turkey. Is it vital to us ?
I've been saying on here for ages that Cameron has made this all about him, im convinced there's plenty of Labour voters ambivalent about the EU that will give him a kicking.
I think that's a real danger and Cameron sees it. "Press this button about something you don't much care about and you can sack the PM" would appeal to at least 5-10% of Labour voters. So saying he'll stay on is probably intended to defuse it as far as he can. But as he's going anyway it seems a bit irrelevant - I assume he merely means "I'll stay on for a bit", as PfP says.
Even as a diehard EU supporter, it seems to me that if we vote Leave then we need someone who thought it a good idea to be leading the negotiations, so I can't see him staying for long after that. An envoi at the Conference in October followed by a leadership election in the winter? For a postal ballot the usual snags about winter don't apply.
On the doctors' dispute, I'm surprised that Carlotta and Sandpit think working at 6am or late evening or weekends is the new normal. Sure, restaurants do to some extent (though American friends think it's weird how most shut down at 1030-11 even in London), but that's always been seen as a snag of working in that industry. I'll do it myself for my NGO as required, but I see that as a director's duty rather than something routine. The supposition that the public will back politicians vs doctors and Hunt is a therefore a good bet for Leader seems quite a leap to me.
If it's seen as politicians vs doctors then the doctors will win.
If it's seen as public vs militant unions then the public will win.
Incidentally, four months (February agreement, June vote) is nowhere near enough time.
There were two years for the Scottish referendum. I'm not saying it has to be a mirror image of that, just that having a sixth of the time is not reasonable.
Don't be silly. Indeed I cannot believe you are being in the least serious. An entire General Election campaign can be done in a month. Do you want to bore the entire nation to death?
I think that is pretty much the Boo campaign in a 'nutjob' - oops 'nutshell'
Looking at the JD strike from afar..and reading as much as I can about it ..the JDs have certainly failed to display a cherent or justified case to the public..It still reads that they are totally unwilling to reform and also want more money..in the meantime the patients are told to sod off..
Fckn hell, the tabloidisation of the Today programme continues apace, interviewing some old trout who was Bowie's landlady/lover. They were just an ace away from asking her how good a shag he was.
I've been saying on here for ages that Cameron has made this all about him, im convinced there's plenty of Labour voters ambivalent about the EU that will give him a kicking.
I think that's a real danger and Cameron sees it. "Press this button about something you don't much care about and you can sack the PM" would appeal to at least 5-10% of Labour voters. So saying he'll stay on is probably intended to defuse it as far as he can. But as he's going anyway it seems a bit irrelevant - I assume he merely means "I'll stay on for a bit", as PfP says.
Even as a diehard EU supporter, it seems to me that if we vote Leave then we need someone who thought it a good idea to be leading the negotiations, so I can't see him staying for long after that. An envoi at the Conference in October followed by a leadership election in the winter? For a postal ballot the usual snags about winter don't apply.
On the doctors' dispute, I'm surprised that Carlotta and Sandpit think working at 6am or late evening or weekends is the new normal. Sure, restaurants do to some extent (though American friends think it's weird how most shut down at 1030-11 even in London), but that's always been seen as a snag of working in that industry. I'll do it myself for my NGO as required, but I see that as a director's duty rather than something routine. The supposition that the public will back politicians vs doctors and Hunt is a therefore a good bet for Leader seems quite a leap to me.
The junior doctors issue is about whether the public see the Doctors as greedy/lazy. I don't think they will, but a few deaths as a result will concentrate minds. This dispute is brinkmanship. Frankly the current crop don't know they were born, given the hours my late wife worked., Same for GP's who do not or will not work weekends.. Mt y late wife worked a full day and then was often on call (one in two/ until the next morning and then did a full day after that.
Given the amount they get paid, this strike is disgraceful.
I've been saying on here for ages that Cameron has made this all about him, im convinced there's plenty of Labour voters ambivalent about the EU that will give him a kicking.
I think that's a real danger and Cameron sees it. "Press this button about something you don't much care about and you can sack the PM" would appeal to at least 5-10% of Labour voters. So saying he'll stay on is probably intended to defuse it as far as he can. But as he's going anyway it seems a bit irrelevant - I assume he merely means "I'll stay on for a bit", as PfP says.
Even as a diehard EU supporter, it seems to me that if we vote Leave then we need someone who thought it a good idea to be leading the negotiations, so I can't see him staying for long after that. An envoi at the Conference in October followed by a leadership election in the winter? For a postal ballot the usual snags about winter don't apply.
On the doctors' dispute, I'm surprised that Carlotta and Sandpit think working at 6am or late evening or weekends is the new normal. Sure, restaurants do to some extent (though American friends think it's weird how most shut down at 1030-11 even in London), but that's always been seen as a snag of working in that industry. I'll do it myself for my NGO as required, but I see that as a director's duty rather than something routine. The supposition that the public will back politicians vs doctors and Hunt is a therefore a good bet for Leader seems quite a leap to me.
Actually I have a few quid myself on Hunt for next Tory Leader. He is a sly, manipulative weasel who is good at PR, as Eurosceptic as anyone in the cabinet and very chummy with the Murdochs. They owe him a few favours for his help smoothing the BSkyB deal when Culture Secretary. It is not a bad tip.
On Labour voters turning out for Leave to bash Cameron, I think it will be outweighed significantly by Remainers motivated by bashing Farage and his fellow travellers of the Tory right.
I've been saying on here for ages that Cameron has made this all about him, im convinced there's plenty of Labour voters ambivalent about the EU that will give him a kicking.
I think that's a real danger and Cameron sees it. "Press this button about something you don't much care about and you can sack the PM" would appeal to at least 5-10% of Labour voters. So saying he'll stay on is probably intended to defuse it as far as he can. But as he's going anyway it seems a bit irrelevant - I assume he merely means "I'll stay on for a bit", as PfP says.
Even as a diehard EU supporter, it seems to me that if we vote Leave then we need someone who thought it a good idea to be leading the negotiations, so I can't see him staying for long after that. An envoi at the Conference in October followed by a leadership election in the winter? For a postal ballot the usual snags about winter don't apply.
On the doctors' dispute, I'm surprised that Carlotta and Sandpit think working at 6am or late evening or weekends is the new normal. Sure, restaurants do to some extent (though American friends think it's weird how most shut down at 1030-11 even in London), but that's always been seen as a snag of working in that industry. I'll do it myself for my NGO as required, but I see that as a director's duty rather than something routine. The supposition that the public will back politicians vs doctors and Hunt is a therefore a good bet for Leader seems quite a leap to me.
If it's seen as politicians vs doctors then the doctors will win.
If it's seen as public vs militant unions then the public will win.
The police and fire brigades operate as normal on Saturdays and Sundays, as do employees in all manner of trades and professions. Why should doctors be paid on an antiquated basis that encourages them to work absurdly long hours on weekdays rather than to make themselves available for weekend shifts?
For those unburdened by anti-Tory prejudice, another interpretation is possible: that the greatest threat to the NHS is not the Conservative party but its own failure to respond to modernity. How can a state-run health service, free at the point of use, keep up with the wonders of medical technology, the radical advance of pharmaceutical science, and the marvel of 21st-century longevity?
This is how Hunt has to frame the public debate over the strikes. Not as a battle between capricious Tory austerity and noble doctors, but a fight between a patient-centred NHS and a creaking, old-fashioned system designed to match the inherited habits of the profession – possibly supported in their action by pickets from the Corbynite grassroots movement Momentum.
A practical question that others here may be better placed to answer. The most difficult part of the leadership contest is getting into the final two - after that, either candidate can hope that campaign opportunities steer things their way. Are the potential candidates (Osborne, May, Johnson etc.) quietly getting commitments from MPs? I can't see a downside, since Dave is committed to going in this Parliament, so there's no disloyalty. And if so, then the long-shot people may be shut out in advance.
I can imagine Boris being too lazy to have done much about this yet, but neither Osborne nor May strike me as lazy.
Haha! Merkel is negotiating with Turkey, Dave says Turkey is "vital" to us, is this really where Remain is? I do hope so, because I'm sure our electorate will welcome 90m Turks with open arms.
A new member requires the unanimous agreement of all the current member states. No Greek or (more importantly) Cypriot leader could possibly vote to let Turkey in. And even if they did, their national parliament would not ratify it.
Anyone claiming that Turkey has any chance of joining the EU in the next two decades is either deluded or lying. Which are you?
You should ask that question of the PM, I'm simply passing on what he said, the same applies to Merkel.
But this is where Remain is at now, the ramifications of us staying in the EU are enormous and detrimental, complacency has been overtaken by panic. Just read the abuse aimed at me over the last hour simply because I put up a link or two.
What Merkel and the PM say are not what you seem to think they say.
As for 'abuse': you seem to take anyone pointing our your position is incorrect as personal abuse. Which is a ridiculous thing to do (doubtless you will now class that as personal abuse).
Given both RCS and myself are likely to vote for 'leave' (*), I'm not sure how your last line really follows. What I want is a debate based on sane discussion of facts, not wild, unsubstantiated claims. Which, as you have shown over the last hour or two, is all you have got.
(*) I think that's his position.
I've been an EFTA/EEA supported for about five years on this board. I guess where I am different from the average "Out"-er is that I do not hate the EU. I merely believe it is not right for the UK.
The crazy thing is that there are a tonne of very good reasons to leave the EU. Making up stories about Turkey's likelihood about joining the EU is ridiculous.
Don't rule out lukewarm Remainers from the list of possibles in these circumstances. Indeed, Boris Johnson might well find that ultimately backing Remain with conspicuous lack of enthusiasm and Leave winning is his easiest route to the top. George Osborne would be knocked out, for sure.
Fckn hell, the tabloidisation of the Today programme continues apace, interviewing some old trout who was Bowie's landlady/lover. They were just an ace away from asking her how good a shag he was.
Lol - I wonder what Bowie's view was on Indyref - oh wait no i don't.
I think a problem for Boris is that lots of Conservatives will have been frustrated not to get office (or higher office) due to Lib Dems last time, and they'll be keen to get on. That means hitching their hopes to likely winners, and a lack of patience with Boris, who's got a nice media profile but does not necessarily seem to have put in the same hard yards.
One of the main themes of the next general election will be you can't trust Corbyn with the security of his Twitter account the country. That might be undermined if Liam Fox is leader given the reasons he had to resign as Defence Secretary.
Plus he is a plonker. Its laughable to see for instance the Right suggesting Osborne is not in some way attractive to the electorate but then put forward Fox. Fox made a total arse of himself by immediately using Defence as a means of peddling his own agenda. The tory Right are as thick as the Labour Left lets face it. And you are right when you say that led by Davies they will take any excuse to simply be anti Cameron. In any event Mr Smithson is indulging in wish fulfilment.
I'm not a big or remotely knowledgeable music fan and find the whole scene just a little bit crass. Bowie came out with a few nice tunes to my tin ear as did a few others and I am sure he put his heart and soul in to it all and is worthy of his iconic status. Its sad and a bit shocking he is suddenly dead at 69. From what I have just read it seems he went out on professional 'high note' which offers some comfort to fans and family after what now seems to have been a long illness.
Every man's death diminishes me, but pop is almost universally banal, infantile nonsense I'm afraid...
Bowie was part of the reason you have to put "almost" into that sentence.
Nope. Two bars of Rachmaninov or Bach is worth more than the entire catalogue of Bowie and his ilk...
Rachmaninov = banal, infantile nonsense
Would you care to put the music up, side by side?
Rachmaninov vs Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner, Sibelius sure. (I'm not advocating for the late Mr Jones.)
But this is just a matter of taste.
Bowie's songs (from the early 70s to the early 80s anyway) are immeasurably better than Schubert's, which are repetitive both internally and as a group. Schubert was a decent instrumental composer though.
Every man's death diminishes me, but pop is almost universally banal, infantile nonsense I'm afraid...
Bowie was part of the reason you have to put "almost" into that sentence.
Nope. Two bars of Rachmaninov or Bach is worth more than the entire catalogue of Bowie and his ilk...
Rachmaninov = banal, infantile nonsense
Would you care to put the music up, side by side?
Rachmaninov vs Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner, Sibelius sure. (I'm not advocating for the late Mr Jones.)
But this is just a matter of taste.
Bowie's songs (from the early 70s to the early 80s anyway) are immeasurably better than Schubert's, which are repetitive both internally and as a group. Schubert was a decent instrumental composer though.
I rather enjoy Schuberts Lieder, I was listening to them on the way in to work this morning.
One of the main themes of the next general election will be you can't trust Corbyn with the security of his Twitter account the country. That might be undermined if Liam Fox is leader given the reasons he had to resign as Defence Secretary.
Plus he is a plonker. Its laughable to see for instance the Right suggesting Osborne is not in some way attractive to the electorate but then put forward Fox. Fox made a total arse of himself by immediately using Defence as a means of peddling his own agenda. The tory Right are as thick as the Labour Left lets face it. And you are right when you say that led by Davies they will take any excuse to simply be anti Cameron. In any event Mr Smithson is indulging in wish fulfilment.
I'm not a big or remotely knowledgeable music fan and find the whole scene just a little bit crass. Bowie came out with a few nice tunes to my tin ear as did a few others and I am sure he put his heart and soul in to it all and is worthy of his iconic status. Its sad and a bit shocking he is suddenly dead at 69. From what I have just read it seems he went out on professional 'high note' which offers some comfort to fans and family after what now seems to have been a long illness.
Of those in the above poll though Fox is the only confirmed Outer. May, Javid, Gove and Boris may also back Out and be contenders but at the moment if it is a Leave vote Fox would be a frontrunner. If it is Remain of course he has almost no chance
Every man's death diminishes me, but pop is almost universally banal, infantile nonsense I'm afraid...
Bowie was part of the reason you have to put "almost" into that sentence.
Nope. Two bars of Rachmaninov or Bach is worth more than the entire catalogue of Bowie and his ilk...
Rachmaninov = banal, infantile nonsense
Would you care to put the music up, side by side?
Rachmaninov vs Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner, Sibelius sure. (I'm not advocating for the late Mr Jones.)
But this is just a matter of taste.
Bowie's songs (from the early 70s to the early 80s anyway) are immeasurably better than Schubert's, which are repetitive both internally and as a group. Schubert was a decent instrumental composer though.
I rather enjoy Schuberts Lieder, I was listening to them on the way in to work this morning.
Re Bowie, don't think he's done anything worth listening to in 30 or 40yrs. Ziggy and Diamond Dogs for me. Very innovative and different for his time. BBC Four did a couple of good docus, sure they'll be repeated for those who weren't alive back then.
I've been saying on here for ages that Cameron has made this all about him, im convinced there's plenty of Labour voters ambivalent about the EU that will give him a kicking.
I think that's a real danger and Cameron sees it. "Press this button about something you don't much care about and you can sack the PM" would appeal to at least 5-10% of Labour voters. So saying he'll stay on is probably intended to defuse it as far as he can. But as he's going anyway it seems a bit irrelevant - I assume he merely means "I'll stay on for a bit", as PfP says.
Even as a diehard EU supporter, it seems to me that if we vote Leave then we need someone who thought it a good idea to be leading the negotiations, so I can't see him staying for long after that. An envoi at the Conference in October followed by a leadership election in the winter? For a postal ballot the usual snags about winter don't apply. Snip
If it's seen as politicians vs doctors then the doctors will win.
If it's seen as public vs militant unions then the public will win.
The police and fire brigades operate as normal on Saturdays and Sundays, as do employees in all manner of trades and professions. Why should doctors be paid on an antiquated basis that encourages them to work absurdly long hours on weekdays rather than to make themselves available for weekend shifts?
For those unburdened by anti-Tory prejudice, another interpretation is possible: that the greatest threat to the NHS is not the Conservative party but its own failure to respond to modernity. How can a state-run health service, free at the point of use, keep up with the wonders of medical technology, the radical advance of pharmaceutical science, and the marvel of 21st-century longevity?
This is how Hunt has to frame the public debate over the strikes. Not as a battle between capricious Tory austerity and noble doctors, but a fight between a patient-centred NHS and a creaking, old-fashioned system designed to match the inherited habits of the profession – possibly supported in their action by pickets from the Corbynite grassroots movement Momentum.
How can anyone dispute that Turkey is "vital" to us? It is looking after more than 2 million Syrian refugees, roughly double the number that have come to the whole of Europe so far. We very much want them to stay there and that requires their co-operation.
Turkey is a large, relatively stable Muslim country and a very important player in middle eastern politics. Their policies have a huge impact and are not entirely to our liking at the moment. Their focus on the Kurds causes us difficulties as does their oil trade with ISIS and the shooting down of the Russian bomber was not exactly helpful. But there is no doubt that if a solution is to be found Turkey will play a very important part and we need to work closely with them.
There is no chance of them joining the EU in the foreseeable future but their trading relationship with the EU remains important for both sides. When I have been on holiday there the Euro was a second informal currency accepted by all shops, restaurants and taxi drivers. They are very much in the ambit of the EU's sphere of influence and it is in our interests for them to stay there.
Cameron pointing this out is doing no more than stating the obvious.
Proportionately Lebanon is looking after more than Turkey. Is it vital to us ?
Lebanon is very different from Turkey.
Turkey is much larger, and is around 18th in world rankings in terms of GDP, whilst Lebanon is around 80th. But the most important point is that Turkey sits in a vital geopolitical position. It's vital that we try to encourage it to westernise rather than move its emphasis to the east (although its arguments with Russia are making one eastern alliance less likely).
And as I've said passim, they've not received enough credit for what they did for the Syrian refugees for nearly five years now. It's come as a massive monetary and social cost.
So yes, Turkey is important. Perhaps even vital. It is on the crux of choosing a direction that might not be in our best interests. We need to encourage them in a direction that is advantageous to both us and themselves, even though EU membership is very unlikely.
A practical question that others here may be better placed to answer. The most difficult part of the leadership contest is getting into the final two - after that, either candidate can hope that campaign opportunities steer things their way. Are the potential candidates (Osborne, May, Johnson etc.) quietly getting commitments from MPs? I can't see a downside, since Dave is committed to going in this Parliament, so there's no disloyalty. And if so, then the long-shot people may be shut out in advance.
I can imagine Boris being too lazy to have done much about this yet, but neither Osborne nor May strike me as lazy.
I'm not sure how popular either May or Johnson are with ordinary MPs.
Every man's death diminishes me, but pop is almost universally banal, infantile nonsense I'm afraid...
Bowie was part of the reason you have to put "almost" into that sentence.
Nope. Two bars of Rachmaninov or Bach is worth more than the entire catalogue of Bowie and his ilk...
Rachmaninov = banal, infantile nonsense
Would you care to put the music up, side by side?
Rachmaninov vs Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner, Sibelius sure. (I'm not advocating for the late Mr Jones.)
But this is just a matter of taste.
Bowie's songs (from the early 70s to the early 80s anyway) are immeasurably better than Schubert's, which are repetitive both internally and as a group. Schubert was a decent instrumental composer though.
Ooh, don't agree with that. Schubert was a great composer of both songs and instrumental music imo.
To talk about Bowie, I think his output from ~1969 to 1980 was brilliant. I don't think he ever recaptured that. If I did want to go into bat for him I would say that he elevated his form to a higher level than most of its other practioners, maybe all of them. He wrote "intelligent" pop songs that were not weighed down with earnestness which is a very very rare achievement. Great voice also.
Conservative MPs have two priorities when thinking about who to back for next leader:
- will they increase my chance of holding my seat? - will I be favoured by Ministerial office if said person in leader?
I don't think Fox will help with the first of these. Maybe, given the Labour Party has Corbyn, he will get a pass on this, but I think Fox is a weak candidate, dogged by having behaved like an idiot last parliament. Backing Out is not enough to make up for his other weaknesses.
Gove also fails the "increase my chance of holding my seat" test.
David Bowie at his best was very special indeed. It's an irony that he sang "I've never done good things. I've never done bad things. I never did anything out of the blue." There are few people that's less true of.
I'd have thought anybody betting on any Conservative leadership contest would need to reflect very carefully on the implications of the first-round selection rules. To make it onto the ballot that goes to members, a contender has to get into the top two spots on the MPs' ballot. That shakes things up a lot and may well doom Boris's chances.
Osborne and May, in particular, have spent a lot of time since 2010 using a combination of patronage and a charm-offensive to make friends in the junior ministerial ranks and the back benches. Watch the next time May has to make a difficult statement to the house (an inevitability for a HomeSec) and you'll notice the benches around her are absolutely packed. Boris, by contrast, treats the Parliamentary party with unveiled contempt, which most of them reciprocate.
The general public polling has shown that Boris is a bigger electoral pull for Tories as leader than either Osborne or May and it's possible that if Labour are back on their feet and the polls are looking tight, that might tip some MPs who otherwise can't stand him towards voting for him. But if Corbyn remains leader of the Labour party, then (barring scandals) I would have thought it's almost certain to be a choice between Osborne and May that goes to the party membership.
Mr. Flightpath, during an election campaign, all other politics stops.
The referendum campaign will happen at the same time as normal politics continues.
Furthermore, people had years to consider the likes of Miliband and Cameron and Clegg (last time), but the new deal on the EU will, perhaps, only emerge next month.
I'm not sensing the celeritas Caesaris in your post. What would Julius do?
How can anyone dispute that Turkey is "vital" to us? It is looking after more than 2 million Syrian refugees, roughly double the number that have come to the whole of Europe so far. We very much want them to stay there and that requires their co-operation.
Turkey is a large, relatively stable Muslim country and a very important player in middle eastern politics. Their policies have a huge impact and are not entirely to our liking at the moment. Their focus on the Kurds causes us difficulties as does their oil trade with ISIS and the shooting down of the Russian bomber was not exactly helpful. But there is no doubt that if a solution is to be found Turkey will play a very important part and we need to work closely with them.
There is no chance of them joining the EU in the foreseeable future but their trading relationship with the EU remains important for both sides. When I have been on holiday there the Euro was a second informal currency accepted by all shops, restaurants and taxi drivers. They are very much in the ambit of the EU's sphere of influence and it is in our interests for them to stay there.
Cameron pointing this out is doing no more than stating the obvious.
Proportionately Lebanon is looking after more than Turkey. Is it vital to us ?
Lebanon is very different from Turkey.
Turkey is much larger, and is around 18th in world rankings in terms of GDP, whilst Lebanon is around 80th. But the most important point is that Turkey sits in a vital geopolitical position. It's vital that we try to encourage it to westernise rather than move its emphasis to the east (although its arguments with Russia are making one eastern alliance less likely).
And as I've said passim, they've not received enough credit for what they did for the Syrian refugees for nearly five years now. It's come as a massive monetary and social cost.
So yes, Turkey is important. Perhaps even vital. It is on the crux of choosing a direction that might not be in our best interests. We need to encourage them in a direction that is advantageous to both us and themselves, even though EU membership is very unlikely.
Nah
Turkey is only "important" in that they grabbed a chunk of Greece 500 years ago, Since then they have been nothing but a pain in the but to Europe.
Turkey is a Middle eastern country with a toe hold in Europe, rather than a European one with a toehold in the Middle East. It;s only the fading Ataturk phenomenon that makes them seem western.
Every man's death diminishes me, but pop is almost universally banal, infantile nonsense I'm afraid...
Bowie was part of the reason you have to put "almost" into that sentence.
Nope. Two bars of Rachmaninov or Bach is worth more than the entire catalogue of Bowie and his ilk...
Rachmaninov = banal, infantile nonsense
Would you care to put the music up, side by side?
Rachmaninov vs Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner, Sibelius sure. (I'm not advocating for the late Mr Jones.)
But this is just a matter of taste.
Bowie's songs (from the early 70s to the early 80s anyway) are immeasurably better than Schubert's, which are repetitive both internally and as a group. Schubert was a decent instrumental composer though.
Ooh, don't agree with that. Schubert was a great composer of both songs and instrumental music imo.
To talk about Bowie, I think his output from ~1969 to 1980 was brilliant. I don't think he ever recaptured that. If I did want to go into bat for him I would say that he elevated his form to a higher level than most of its other practioners, maybe all of them. He wrote "intelligent" pop songs that were not weighed down with earnestness which is a very very rare achievement. Great voice also.
Each to their own but the Lieder just leave me a bit cold. Bach - which has nothing of the invested emotion - I could listen to for hour after hour for the sheer beauty, even if a lot of it is brilliance on display rather than for consumption (you can't exactly hum the Goldberg variations).
Every man's death diminishes me, but pop is almost universally banal, infantile nonsense I'm afraid...
Bowie was part of the reason you have to put "almost" into that sentence.
Nope. Two bars of Rachmaninov or Bach is worth more than the entire catalogue of Bowie and his ilk...
Rachmaninov = banal, infantile nonsense
Would you care to put the music up, side by side?
Rachmaninov vs Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner, Sibelius sure. (I'm not advocating for the late Mr Jones.)
But this is just a matter of taste.
Bowie's songs (from the early 70s to the early 80s anyway) are immeasurably better than Schubert's, which are repetitive both internally and as a group. Schubert was a decent instrumental composer though.
I rather enjoy Schuberts Lieder, I was listening to them on the way in to work this morning.
Turkey is much larger, and is around 18th in world rankings in terms of GDP, whilst Lebanon is around 80th. But the most important point is that Turkey sits in a vital geopolitical position. It's vital that we try to encourage it to westernise rather than move its emphasis to the east (although its arguments with Russia are making one eastern alliance less likely).
And as I've said passim, they've not received enough credit for what they did for the Syrian refugees for nearly five years now. It's come as a massive monetary and social cost.
So yes, Turkey is important. Perhaps even vital. It is on the crux of choosing a direction that might not be in our best interests. We need to encourage them in a direction that is advantageous to both us and themselves, even though EU membership is very unlikely.
Nah
Turkey is only "important" in that they grabbed a chunk of Greece 500 years ago, Since then they have been nothing but ba pain in the but to Europe.
Turkey is a Middle eastern country with a toe hold in Europe, rather than a European one with a toehold in the Middle East. It;s only the fading Ataturk phenomenon that makes them seem western.
I disagree with the first paragraph, but the second one highlights the issue well. Another issue is that Turkey is not a homogeneous entity in this respect.
So the question is this: would you want them to become more westernised, or turn eastwards (whether towards China/Russia or the ME)? Which do you think is most in our interests, and those of the EU and the west in general?
I've been saying on here for ages that Cameron has made this all about him, im convinced there's plenty of Labour voters ambivalent about the EU that will give him a kicking.
On the doctors' dispute, I'm surprised that Carlotta and Sandpit think working at 6am or late evening or weekends is the new normal. Sure, restaurants do to some extent (though American friends think it's weird how most shut down at 1030-11 even in London), but that's always been seen as a snag of working in that industry. I'll do it myself for my NGO as required, but I see that as a director's duty rather than something routine. The supposition that the public will back politicians vs doctors and Hunt is a therefore a good bet for Leader seems quite a leap to me.
Nick, in IT it's perfectly normal. My support team work 6am-midnight 7 days, plus scheduled and unscheduled nightshifts, on call nights expected to respond to alerts - to fit around the needs of the business. The only thing we notice at weekends is that there's a few directors not there (but they still phone up!), and the finance and admin teams.
Every man's death diminishes me, but pop is almost universally banal, infantile nonsense I'm afraid...
Bowie was part of the reason you have to put "almost" into that sentence.
Nope. Two bars of Rachmaninov or Bach is worth more than the entire catalogue of Bowie and his ilk...
Rachmaninov = banal, infantile nonsense
Would you care to put the music up, side by side?
Rachmaninov vs Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner, Sibelius sure. (I'm not advocating for the late Mr Jones.)
But this is just a matter of taste.
Bowie's songs (from the early 70s to the early 80s anyway) are immeasurably better than Schubert's, which are repetitive both internally and as a group. Schubert was a decent instrumental composer though.
Ooh, don't agree with that. Schubert was a great composer of both songs and instrumental music imo.
To talk about Bowie, I think his output from ~1969 to 1980 was brilliant. I don't think he ever recaptured that. If I did want to go into bat for him I would say that he elevated his form to a higher level than most of its other practioners, maybe all of them. He wrote "intelligent" pop songs that were not weighed down with earnestness which is a very very rare achievement. Great voice also.
Each to their own but the Lieder just leave me a bit cold. Bach - which has nothing of the invested emotion - I could listen to for hour after hour for the sheer beauty, even if a lot of it is brilliance on display rather than for consumption (you can't exactly hum the Goldberg variations).
I agree about the sheer beauty of Bach but I have to slightly disagree again in that, when he wants to, Bach has more emotional intensity than anyone. Some of the cantatas and the passions bear this out. There's a reason why, when thinking about Tristan, many people find themselves instinctively comparing it with the St. Matthew Passion, which doesn't really make sense (imo) except on the level that they both have an almost stifling emotional tension.
Every man's death diminishes me, but pop is almost universally banal, infantile nonsense I'm afraid...
Bowie was part of the reason you have to put "almost" into that sentence.
Nope. Two bars of Rachmaninov or Bach is worth more than the entire catalogue of Bowie and his ilk...
Rachmaninov = banal, infantile nonsense
Would you care to put the music up, side by side?
Rachmaninov vs Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner, Sibelius sure. (I'm not advocating for the late Mr Jones.)
But this is just a matter of taste.
Bowie's songs (from the early 70s to the early 80s anyway) are immeasurably better than Schubert's, which are repetitive both internally and as a group. Schubert was a decent instrumental composer though.
I rather enjoy Schuberts Lieder, I was listening to them on the way in to work this morning.
I always had you down as a fan of flute music.
You're confusing me with malc.
Scots and Ulster Scots all look and sound the same to me.
How can anyone dispute that Turkey is "vital" to us? It is looking after more than 2 million Syrian refugees, roughly double the number that have come to the whole of Europe so far. We very much want them to stay there and that requires their co-operation.
Turkey is a large, relatively stable Muslim country and a very important player in middle eastern politics. Their policies have a huge impact and are not entirely to our liking at the moment. Their focus on the Kurds causes us difficulties as does their oil trade with ISIS and the shooting down of the Russian bomber was not exactly helpful. But there is no doubt that if a solution is to be found Turkey will play a very important part and we need to work closely with them.
There is no chance of them joining the EU in the foreseeable future but their trading relationship with the EU remains important for both sides. When I have been on holiday there the Euro was a second informal currency accepted by all shops, restaurants and taxi drivers. They are very much in the ambit of the EU's sphere of influence and it is in our interests for them to stay there.
Cameron pointing this out is doing no more than stating the obvious.
Proportionately Lebanon is looking after more than Turkey. Is it vital to us ?
Up to a point for some of the same reasons although it is a bit player in the area compared to Turkey.
Cameron has been completely vindicated in emphasising the importance of in theatre refugee camps. Mekel, in contrast, looks ridiculous.
Fckn hell, the tabloidisation of the Today programme continues apace, interviewing some old trout who was Bowie's landlady/lover. They were just an ace away from asking her how good a shag he was.
Lol - I wonder what Bowie's view was on Indyref - oh wait no i don't.
Every man's death diminishes me, but pop is almost universally banal, infantile nonsense I'm afraid...
Bowie was part of the reason you have to put "almost" into that sentence.
Nope. Two bars of Rachmaninov or Bach is worth more than the entire catalogue of Bowie and his ilk...
Rachmaninov = banal, infantile nonsense
Would you care to put the music up, side by side?
Rachmaninov vs Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner, Sibelius sure. (I'm not advocating for the late Mr Jones.)
But this is just a matter of taste.
Is it? An average child could plink-plink their way through all of Bowie's stuff.
Now put up one of the others you mentioned...
Further about Rachmaninov, I don't really think his music is infantile, of course, but I don't like it especially. It is certainly hard to play (and he was a very great pianist himself by all accounts) but that's not really an indicator of musical quality imo.
"The highest paid public sector workers are demanding pay rises worth tens of thousands pounds to compensate them for new pension taxes, the Telegraph understands.
A group of 12 trade unions representing hundreds of thousands of workers including doctors, police officers, head teachers and civil servants have held private talks with David Gauke, Financial Secretary to the Treasury, demanding loopholes that would spare them the tax.
Staff most likely to be seeking this extra cash will already have pensions worth in excess of £1m - and their calls for "compensation" have been condemned as "displaying breathtaking gall"."
I've been saying on here for ages that Cameron has made this all about him, im convinced there's plenty of Labour voters ambivalent about the EU that will give him a kicking.
On the doctors' dispute, I'm surprised that Carlotta and Sandpit think working at 6am or late evening or weekends is the new normal. Sure, restaurants do to some extent (though American friends think it's weird how most shut down at 1030-11 even in London), but that's always been seen as a snag of working in that industry. I'll do it myself for my NGO as required, but I see that as a director's duty rather than something routine. The supposition that the public will back politicians vs doctors and Hunt is a therefore a good bet for Leader seems quite a leap to me.
Nick, in IT it's perfectly normal. My support team work 6am-midnight 7 days, plus scheduled and unscheduled nightshifts, on call nights expected to respond to alerts - to fit around the needs of the business. The only thing we notice at weekends is that there's a few directors not there (but they still phone up!), and the finance and admin teams.
A family member is in a job where he has to choose to be on 24-hour call a certain number of weeks a year. This means no alcohol, no being away from home or work, and being somewhere he can be contacted (fortunately much easier than it was a few years back). He is one of a team of people who do similar, and do important work. At least, it's important in the way people don't think about it until they fail. When they do fail people think it's very important.
For four or five years in a row, he volunteered to work Christmas day, so he could choose not to work Christmas when his kids came along. Now they're older he's back on call at Chrissy.
Nope. Two bars of Rachmaninov or Bach is worth more than the entire catalogue of Bowie and his ilk...
Rachmaninov = banal, infantile nonsense
Would you care to put the music up, side by side?
Rachmaninov vs Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner, Sibelius sure. (I'm not advocating for the late Mr Jones.)
But this is just a matter of taste.
Bowie's songs (from the early 70s to the early 80s anyway) are immeasurably better than Schubert's, which are repetitive both internally and as a group. Schubert was a decent instrumental composer though.
Ooh, don't agree with that. Schubert was a great composer of both songs and instrumental music imo.
To talk about Bowie, I think his output from ~1969 to 1980 was brilliant. I don't think he ever recaptured that. If I did want to go into bat for him I would say that he elevated his form to a higher level than most of its other practioners, maybe all of them. He wrote "intelligent" pop songs that were not weighed down with earnestness which is a very very rare achievement. Great voice also.
Each to their own but the Lieder just leave me a bit cold. Bach - which has nothing of the invested emotion - I could listen to for hour after hour for the sheer beauty, even if a lot of it is brilliance on display rather than for consumption (you can't exactly hum the Goldberg variations).
I agree about the sheer beauty of Bach but I have to slightly disagree again in that, when he wants to, Bach has more emotional intensity than anyone. Some of the cantatas and the passions bear this out. There's a reason why, when thinking about Tristan, many people find themselves instinctively comparing it with the St. Matthew Passion, which doesn't really make sense (imo) except on the level that they both have an almost stifling emotional tension.
It's a while since I've listened to the St Matthew and maybe I should again. It's not one I found easy to tune in to and it seemed quite linear. The B minor mass, by contrast, is, to me, exquisite. You're right that the emotion that is there is tightly bound but then that was surely a conscious choice.
As for "more emotional intensity than anyone": well, Tchaikovsky? I know he's looked down on at times - not least because of that intensity but also because of his populist loud stuff - but his arrangement, his gift for melody and his ability to manipulate emotion (though not his own) are the equal of anyone.
Bowie IIRC came out as a closet heterosexual when he got married and wished he'd never said he was bisexual. He just enjoyed the counter culture of the time.
Every man's death diminishes me, but pop is almost universally banal, infantile nonsense I'm afraid...
Bowie was part of the reason you have to put "almost" into that sentence.
Nope. Two bars of Rachmaninov or Bach is worth more than the entire catalogue of Bowie and his ilk...
Rachmaninov = banal, infantile nonsense
Would you care to put the music up, side by side?
Rachmaninov vs Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner, Sibelius sure. (I'm not advocating for the late Mr Jones.)
But this is just a matter of taste.
Bowie's songs (from the early 70s to the early 80s anyway) are immeasurably better than Schubert's, which are repetitive both internally and as a group. Schubert was a decent instrumental composer though.
I rather enjoy Schuberts Lieder, I was listening to them on the way in to work this morning.
Miss Plato, annoys me when the media go overboard with saturation coverage. Remember when the Pope died. Nine days later the top story was "Pope remains dead". I can see that leading the news if it weren't the case...
Every man's death diminishes me, but pop is almost universally banal, infantile nonsense I'm afraid...
Bowie was part of the reason you have to put "almost" into that sentence.
Nope. Two bars of Rachmaninov or Bach is worth more than the entire catalogue of Bowie and his ilk...
Rachmaninov = banal, infantile nonsense
Would you care to put the music up, side by side?
Rachmaninov vs Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner, Sibelius sure. (I'm not advocating for the late Mr Jones.)
But this is just a matter of taste.
Bowie's songs (from the early 70s to the early 80s anyway) are immeasurably better than Schubert's, which are repetitive both internally and as a group. Schubert was a decent instrumental composer though.
I rather enjoy Schuberts Lieder, I was listening to them on the way in to work this morning.
I always had you down as a fan of flute music.
Well I like Jethro Tull
Saw Ian Anderson at Lincoln Cathedral just before Christmas. Still magical flute playing.
I've been saying on here for ages that Cameron has made this all about him, im convinced there's plenty of Labour voters ambivalent about the EU that will give him a kicking.
On the doctors' dispute, I'm surprised that Carlotta and Sandpit think working at 6am or late evening or weekends is the new normal. Sure, restaurants do to some extent (though American friends think it's weird how most shut down at 1030-11 even in London), but that's always been seen as a snag of working in that industry. I'll do it myself for my NGO as required, but I see that as a director's duty rather than something routine. The supposition that the public will back politicians vs doctors and Hunt is a therefore a good bet for Leader seems quite a leap to me.
Nick, in IT it's perfectly normal. My support team work 6am-midnight 7 days, plus scheduled and unscheduled nightshifts, on call nights expected to respond to alerts - to fit around the needs of the business. The only thing we notice at weekends is that there's a few directors not there (but they still phone up!), and the finance and admin teams.
A family member is in a job where he has to choose to be on 24-hour call a certain number of weeks a year. This means no alcohol, no being away from home or work, and being somewhere he can be contacted (fortunately much easier than it was a few years back). He is one of a team of people who do similar, and do important work. At least, it's important in the way people don't think about it until they fail. When they do fail people think it's very important.
For four or five years in a row, he volunteered to work Christmas day, so he could choose not to work Christmas when his kids came along. Now they're older he's back on call at Chrissy.
I don't get a choice when I work. I do a straight 4 on (2x12 hour days, 2x12 hour nights) 4 off. It doesn't matter what day it is, if my shift hits it, I work it, although I do get double time if I hit a bank holiday. I worked both Christmas and Boxing Day this year. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect doctors to do the same, there is no reason why we shouldn't have a genuine 24 hour NHS.
I've been saying on here for ages that Cameron has made this all about him, im convinced there's plenty of Labour voters ambivalent about the EU that will give him a kicking.
On the doctors' dispute, I'm surprised that Carlotta and Sandpit think working at 6am or late evening or weekends is the new normal. Sure, restaurants do to some extent (though American friends think it's weird how most shut down at 1030-11 even in London), but that's always been seen as a snag of working in that industry. I'll do it myself for my NGO as required, but I see that as a director's duty rather than something routine. The supposition that the public will back politicians vs doctors and Hunt is a therefore a good bet for Leader seems quite a leap to me.
Nick, in IT it's perfectly normal. My support team work 6am-midnight 7 days, plus scheduled and unscheduled nightshifts, on call nights expected to respond to alerts - to fit around the needs of the business. The only thing we notice at weekends is that there's a few directors not there (but they still phone up!), and the finance and admin teams.
A family member is in a job where he has to choose to be on 24-hour call a certain number of weeks a year. This means no alcohol, no being away from home or work, and being somewhere he can be contacted (fortunately much easier than it was a few years back). He is one of a team of people who do similar, and do important work. At least, it's important in the way people don't think about it until they fail. When they do fail people think it's very important.
For four or five years in a row, he volunteered to work Christmas day, so he could choose not to work Christmas when his kids came along. Now they're older he's back on call at Chrissy.
Yep, we have all the same discussions here in setting up a work rota. Done my share of Christmas Days in the younger days too. Usually it was a choice of Christmas day, NYE or NY Day, the first to volunteer got to choose their shift, the last to volunteer got what was left (usually either NYE overnight or NY Day 6am!)
Over here that's a little easier as we have a diverse team by religion, so we help each other cover holidays. I'll happily work three days of Eid-al-Fitr if it means I get Christmas day off!
I've watched Sky for an hour and there is no other news, none.
While that is quite a lot, I don't think it is too inaccurate to say that people who do not understand the importance of David Bowie to the sociocultural world of the last forty years, do not understand the sociocultural world of the last forty years.
Not to say they need to (lookin' at you, Rod), but he was a huge influence on many if not most musical developments during that time.
Every man's death diminishes me, but pop is almost universally banal, infantile nonsense I'm afraid...
Bowie was part of the reason you have to put "almost" into that sentence.
Nope. Two bars of Rachmaninov or Bach is worth more than the entire catalogue of Bowie and his ilk...
Rachmaninov = banal, infantile nonsense
Would you care to put the music up, side by side?
Rachmaninov vs Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner, Sibelius sure. (I'm not advocating for the late Mr Jones.)
But this is just a matter of taste.
Bowie's songs (from the early 70s to the early 80s anyway) are immeasurably better than Schubert's, which are repetitive both internally and as a group. Schubert was a decent instrumental composer though.
I rather enjoy Schuberts Lieder, I was listening to them on the way in to work this morning.
I always had you down as a fan of flute music.
Well I like Jethro Tull
I live near the place where Jethro Tull invented the seed planter thingy. Did he play the piano as well?
The Times’ front page has Cameron: I won’t quit if Britain votes to leave EU.
Cameron appears to be saying: I won't quit, but equally I don't have any idea on how we would proceed in the event of a Leave vote.
Sounds like it's time for him to sort out his thinking somewhat.
Not at all. The last sentence is a not at all subtle dig at the Booers who have signally failed to explain just how Brexit would work.
As a rule, the uncertainty does not lie with the status quo.
a kicking
There's no way Turkey's joining the EU in the next decade at the earliest, and especially not under its current leadership. But it suits all sides for negotiations to continue.
If you base your argument on that then you're basing your argument on a lie.
A quick google search contradicts your view, but thanks for calling me a liar.
Care to post the link which suggests Turkey joining before 2025?
Or address the Greek or Cypriot vetos? (Let alone the French or Austrian....)
Haha! Merkel is negotiating with Turkey, Dave says Turkey is "vital" to us, is this really where Remain is? I do hope so, because I'm sure our electorate will welcome 90m Turks with open arms.
Everyone says turkey is vital, but they seem to be moving further away from meeting joining conditions, and only do many could be relaxed, if anything, I'd expect the words on them joining to ramp up, even as it is less likely, as a kind of diplomatic reassurance they are still on side.
They are as vital as a hole in the head, we should have nothing to do with them.
Every man's death diminishes me, but pop is almost universally banal, infantile nonsense I'm afraid...
Bowie was part of the reason you have to put "almost" into that sentence.
Nope. Two bars of Rachmaninov or Bach is worth more than the entire catalogue of Bowie and his ilk...
Rachmaninov = banal, infantile nonsense
Would you care to put the music up, side by side?
Rachmaninov vs Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner, Sibelius sure. (I'm not advocating for the late Mr Jones.)
But this is just a matter of taste.
Bowie's songs (from the early 70s to the early 80s anyway) are immeasurably better than Schubert's, which are repetitive both internally and as a group. Schubert was a decent instrumental composer though.
I rather enjoy Schuberts Lieder, I was listening to them on the way in to work this morning.
I always had you down as a fan of flute music.
Well I like Jethro Tull
I live near the place where Jethro Tull invented the seed planter thingy. Did he play the piano as well?
Near the bridge in Wallingford?
EDIT: Make that Crowmarsh Gifford? I lived a couple of miles away for 15 years.
A practical question that others here may be better placed to answer. The most difficult part of the leadership contest is getting into the final two - after that, either candidate can hope that campaign opportunities steer things their way. Are the potential candidates (Osborne, May, Johnson etc.) quietly getting commitments from MPs? I can't see a downside, since Dave is committed to going in this Parliament, so there's no disloyalty. And if so, then the long-shot people may be shut out in advance.
I can imagine Boris being too lazy to have done much about this yet, but neither Osborne nor May strike me as lazy.
I've read that Osborne was set to have dined with every member of the new intake by the end of 2015. Don't if that's true (or unusual).
I've watched Sky for an hour and there is no other news, none.
While that is quite a lot, I don't think it is too inaccurate to say that people who do not understand the importance of David Bowie to the sociocultural world of the last forty years, do not understand the sociocultural world of the last forty years.
Not to say they need to (lookin' at you, Rod), but he was a huge influence on many if not most musical developments during that time.
Indeed. Where would post-modern humour be without The Laughing Gnome?
I've watched Sky for an hour and there is no other news, none.
I 'big death' is a godsend for 24hr News. Are you seriously saying you have watched Sky News for 60 minutes solid? And this when its not actually giving any real news out?
There was Bowie- and then there was the rest. Bowie joins the British pantheon of Kubrick, Hitchcock, Lennon, Alec Guiness, David Lean- that magical few of truly great postwar Brits that have transcended their art form.
I bought BlackStar last Friday, and have been listening to it virtually non stop over the weekend. It is a wonderful album. Tis a Pity She's a Whore- lyrically Bowie became even stronger.
I doubt that I have had a week in my life without intentionally flipping on a Bowie track or two. My great pity is never to have seen him live.
I've watched Sky for an hour and there is no other news, none.
I 'big death' is a godsend for 24hr News. Are you seriously saying you have watched Sky News for 60 minutes solid? And this when its not actually giving any real news out?
24h news is unbearable when a story like this breaks. There's a single fact to report, rarely much new to add over time and endless repetition of a five minute VT loop. Sky are the masters at running a five minute story for 5 or 6 hours non stop.
There was Bowie- and then there was the rest. Bowie joins the British pantheon of Kubrick, Hitchcock, Lennon, Alec Guiness, David Lean- that magical few of truly great postwar Brits that have transcended their art form.
I bought BlackStar last Friday, and have been listening to it virtually non stop over the weekend. It is a wonderful album. Tis a Pity She's a Whore- lyrically Bowie became even stronger.
I doubt that I have had a week in my life without intentionally flipping on a Bowie track or two. My great pity is never to have seen him live.
Very saddened to hear the news. Many of Bowie's tracks were sublime: 'Starman', 'Ashes', 'Space Oddity', 'Life on Mars'.
Morris- on the death of a truly great Brit, probably our greatest cultural icon, someone who has influenced music, art, fashion, imagery across the globe for four decades- perhaps a bit of saturation coverage is due.
Bowie is to music and art what Churchill was for politics.
Mr. Flightpath, during an election campaign, all other politics stops.
The referendum campaign will happen at the same time as normal politics continues.
Furthermore, people had years to consider the likes of Miliband and Cameron and Clegg (last time), but the new deal on the EU will, perhaps, only emerge next month.
I'm not sensing the celeritas Caesaris in your post. What would Julius do?
I think its a bit naive to think all other politics will not stop during the referendum which will only be considering one clear issue, not the multiple choices of party, policy or personality of a GE. If - and its not even certain yet, Cameron produces a deal to parliament by end of Feb, then there is 3 to 4 months to a referendum in June July. More than enough.
Miss Plato, annoys me when the media go overboard with saturation coverage. Remember when the Pope died. Nine days later the top story was "Pope remains dead". I can see that leading the news if it weren't the case...
Hah! Seems a bit rude too in that case, only JC is supposed to return from that state.
Bowie's songs (from the early 70s to the early 80s anyway) are immeasurably better than Schubert's, which are repetitive both internally and as a group. Schubert was a decent instrumental composer though.
Unfortunately I won't be around to collect, but if I were I'd be prepared to bet any amount of money that in 100 years time people will still be listening to and appreciating Schubert lieder all over the world, and that David Bowie (whoever he was) will have been completely forgotten.
Comments
Yeah...this is going to work:
This is why the best way forward for Europe is to threaten to hit the English as hard as we can. We must stop treating membership of the EU as a favour granted by England, and instead make the English feel their vulnerability and dependence.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/11/europe-turn-tables-bullying-britain-david-cameron-eu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o22i_gqAf_o
Ziggy remains a favourite of mine. RIP.
Another reason for us not to let Turkey into the EU.
On topic, I suspect David Davis and the usual suspects will try and topple Dave no matter the outcome of the referendum.
If Leave make this about toppling Cameron then that'll get the blue rinse mob behind Dave even if they are ardent leavers. And Leave needs a majority of Tories to vote for leave to win.
Modern Love was my fave Bowie song. Played it at my engagement party.
The NHS is literally killing people at the weekend because it doesn't want to reform, or do you dispute the statistics?
My final point was that, whatever the merits of the doctors' argument, they need to find spokesmen who don't come across as either middle-class Len McCluskeys or 30 year olds complaining they can't afford to buy a house in Zone 1. If there was a more polite discourse then maybe the doctors would gain more public sympathy.
But this is where Remain is at now, the ramifications of us staying in the EU are enormous and detrimental, complacency has been overtaken by panic. Just read the abuse aimed at me over the last hour simply because I put up a link or two.
One of the main themes of the next general election will be you can't trust Corbyn with the security of his Twitter account the country. That might be undermined if Liam Fox is leader given the reasons he had to resign as Defence Secretary.
I agree, the great man would be spinning in his grave.
But he could hardly be blamed for such a misguided folly...
Doctors are applying for August jobs now, in some specialities the applications are already closed. The appointments will be confirmed mostly before Easter. Junior Doctors need to know their pay and terms for these posts. The only way a re-ballot, or further negotiations before a strike, could occur would be for Hunt to withdraw his threat of August 2016 imposition.
There were two years for the Scottish referendum. I'm not saying it has to be a mirror image of that, just that having a sixth of the time is not reasonable.
But this is just a matter of taste.
As for 'abuse': you seem to take anyone pointing our your position is incorrect as personal abuse. Which is a ridiculous thing to do (doubtless you will now class that as personal abuse).
Given both RCS and myself are likely to vote for 'leave' (*), I'm not sure how your last line really follows. What I want is a debate based on sane discussion of facts, not wild, unsubstantiated claims. Which, as you have shown over the last hour or two, is all you have got.
(*) I think that's his position.
Nothing to see here, doctor knows best, now sit still and wait your turn.
Honestly I wonder how I transitioned to Leave in the past 18 months, given how prevalent that sort of attitude is. Plenty of hostility and obfuscation from remainers of course, again it is the Internet, but that 'woe is me' attitude is far more typical of my own side in the EU debate.
Good day.
Now put up one of the others you mentioned...
A 7 day NHS makes for a good soundbite, but the substance is not there behind the slogan, and neither is the nessecary funding.
Anyone who's ever lived abroad can see that the NHS is close to the worst healthcare model. Only the USA is as bad. It's a monolithic organisation clearly being run for those who work in it, rather than those who use it and pay for it.
The referendum campaign will happen at the same time as normal politics continues.
Furthermore, people had years to consider the likes of Miliband and Cameron and Clegg (last time), but the new deal on the EU will, perhaps, only emerge next month.
Even as a diehard EU supporter, it seems to me that if we vote Leave then we need someone who thought it a good idea to be leading the negotiations, so I can't see him staying for long after that. An envoi at the Conference in October followed by a leadership election in the winter? For a postal ballot the usual snags about winter don't apply.
On the doctors' dispute, I'm surprised that Carlotta and Sandpit think working at 6am or late evening or weekends is the new normal. Sure, restaurants do to some extent (though American friends think it's weird how most shut down at 1030-11 even in London), but that's always been seen as a snag of working in that industry. I'll do it myself for my NGO as required, but I see that as a director's duty rather than something routine. The supposition that the public will back politicians vs doctors and Hunt is a therefore a good bet for Leader seems quite a leap to me.
If it's seen as public vs militant unions then the public will win.
Given the amount they get paid, this strike is disgraceful.
On Labour voters turning out for Leave to bash Cameron, I think it will be outweighed significantly by Remainers motivated by bashing Farage and his fellow travellers of the Tory right.
Signing off now, things to do...
For those unburdened by anti-Tory prejudice, another interpretation is possible: that the greatest threat to the NHS is not the Conservative party but its own failure to respond to modernity. How can a state-run health service, free at the point of use, keep up with the wonders of medical technology, the radical advance of pharmaceutical science, and the marvel of 21st-century longevity?
This is how Hunt has to frame the public debate over the strikes. Not as a battle between capricious Tory austerity and noble doctors, but a fight between a patient-centred NHS and a creaking, old-fashioned system designed to match the inherited habits of the profession – possibly supported in their action by pickets from the Corbynite grassroots movement Momentum.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/10/jeremy-hunt-junior-doctors-nhs
I can imagine Boris being too lazy to have done much about this yet, but neither Osborne nor May strike me as lazy.
The crazy thing is that there are a tonne of very good reasons to leave the EU. Making up stories about Turkey's likelihood about joining the EU is ridiculous.
I think a problem for Boris is that lots of Conservatives will have been frustrated not to get office (or higher office) due to Lib Dems last time, and they'll be keen to get on. That means hitching their hopes to likely winners, and a lack of patience with Boris, who's got a nice media profile but does not necessarily seem to have put in the same hard yards.
The tory Right are as thick as the Labour Left lets face it. And you are right when you say that led by Davies they will take any excuse to simply be anti Cameron.
In any event Mr Smithson is indulging in wish fulfilment.
I'm not a big or remotely knowledgeable music fan and find the whole scene just a little bit crass. Bowie came out with a few nice tunes to my tin ear as did a few others and I am sure he put his heart and soul in to it all and is worthy of his iconic status. Its sad and a bit shocking he is suddenly dead at 69. From what I have just read it seems he went out on professional 'high note' which offers some comfort to fans and family after what now seems to have been a long illness.
Blimey.
Re Bowie, don't think he's done anything worth listening to in 30 or 40yrs. Ziggy and Diamond Dogs for me. Very innovative and different for his time. BBC Four did a couple of good docus, sure they'll be repeated for those who weren't alive back then.
Turkey is much larger, and is around 18th in world rankings in terms of GDP, whilst Lebanon is around 80th. But the most important point is that Turkey sits in a vital geopolitical position. It's vital that we try to encourage it to westernise rather than move its emphasis to the east (although its arguments with Russia are making one eastern alliance less likely).
And as I've said passim, they've not received enough credit for what they did for the Syrian refugees for nearly five years now. It's come as a massive monetary and social cost.
So yes, Turkey is important. Perhaps even vital. It is on the crux of choosing a direction that might not be in our best interests. We need to encourage them in a direction that is advantageous to both us and themselves, even though EU membership is very unlikely.
To talk about Bowie, I think his output from ~1969 to 1980 was brilliant. I don't think he ever recaptured that. If I did want to go into bat for him I would say that he elevated his form to a higher level than most of its other practioners, maybe all of them. He wrote "intelligent" pop songs that were not weighed down with earnestness which is a very very rare achievement. Great voice also.
- will they increase my chance of holding my seat?
- will I be favoured by Ministerial office if said person in leader?
I don't think Fox will help with the first of these. Maybe, given the Labour Party has Corbyn, he will get a pass on this, but I think Fox is a weak candidate, dogged by having behaved like an idiot last parliament. Backing Out is not enough to make up for his other weaknesses.
Gove also fails the "increase my chance of holding my seat" test.
Osborne and May, in particular, have spent a lot of time since 2010 using a combination of patronage and a charm-offensive to make friends in the junior ministerial ranks and the back benches. Watch the next time May has to make a difficult statement to the house (an inevitability for a HomeSec) and you'll notice the benches around her are absolutely packed. Boris, by contrast, treats the Parliamentary party with unveiled contempt, which most of them reciprocate.
The general public polling has shown that Boris is a bigger electoral pull for Tories as leader than either Osborne or May and it's possible that if Labour are back on their feet and the polls are looking tight, that might tip some MPs who otherwise can't stand him towards voting for him. But if Corbyn remains leader of the Labour party, then (barring scandals) I would have thought it's almost certain to be a choice between Osborne and May that goes to the party membership.
Turkey is only "important" in that they grabbed a chunk of Greece 500 years ago, Since then they have been nothing but a pain in the but to Europe.
Turkey is a Middle eastern country with a toe hold in Europe, rather than a European one with a toehold in the Middle East. It;s only the fading Ataturk phenomenon that makes them seem western.
So the question is this: would you want them to become more westernised, or turn eastwards (whether towards China/Russia or the ME)? Which do you think is most in our interests, and those of the EU and the west in general?
Hoist the petard...
Cameron has been completely vindicated in emphasising the importance of in theatre refugee camps. Mekel, in contrast, looks ridiculous.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/12092043/Top-public-sector-earners-demanding-even-higher-wages-to-compensate-pension-tax-relief-cuts.html
"The highest paid public sector workers are demanding pay rises worth tens of thousands pounds to compensate them for new pension taxes, the Telegraph understands.
A group of 12 trade unions representing hundreds of thousands of workers including doctors, police officers, head teachers and civil servants have held private talks with David Gauke, Financial Secretary to the Treasury, demanding loopholes that would spare them the tax.
Staff most likely to be seeking this extra cash will already have pensions worth in excess of £1m - and their calls for "compensation" have been condemned as "displaying breathtaking gall"."
For four or five years in a row, he volunteered to work Christmas day, so he could choose not to work Christmas when his kids came along. Now they're older he's back on call at Chrissy.
As for "more emotional intensity than anyone": well, Tchaikovsky? I know he's looked down on at times - not least because of that intensity but also because of his populist loud stuff - but his arrangement, his gift for melody and his ability to manipulate emotion (though not his own) are the equal of anyone.
Over here that's a little easier as we have a diverse team by religion, so we help each other cover holidays. I'll happily work three days of Eid-al-Fitr if it means I get Christmas day off!
Not to say they need to (lookin' at you, Rod), but he was a huge influence on many if not most musical developments during that time.
EDIT: Make that Crowmarsh Gifford? I lived a couple of miles away for 15 years.
Indeed. Where would post-modern humour be without The Laughing Gnome?
I bought BlackStar last Friday, and have been listening to it virtually non stop over the weekend. It is a wonderful album. Tis a Pity She's a Whore- lyrically Bowie became even stronger.
I doubt that I have had a week in my life without intentionally flipping on a Bowie track or two. My great pity is never to have seen him live.
Apparently he turned down a knighthood.
Bowie is to music and art what Churchill was for politics.