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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This House: The play at the National that knocks on the hea

SystemSystem Posts: 11,007
edited March 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This House: The play at the National that knocks on the head the notion of minority government

A couple of weeks ago I went to see what for me was best play about politics in years – James Graham’s “This House” chronicling the period 1974 until Mrs. Thatcher’s victory in 1979. It is enjoying a second sell-out run at the Olivier at the National Theatre.

Read the full story here


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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    In 2007, Alex Salmond operated on the assumption that a coalition with the Liberal Democrats was infinitely preferable to minority government. The conventional wisdom was that an SNP minority government would last two years at the absolute most.

    In reality, of course, it went full-term comfortably, and Salmond looked back on the Lib Dems slamming the door in his face as the "we were saved" moment. The conventional wisdom was totally wrong, as it often is.

    As for the late 1970s, if Callaghan had only been sensible enough to go to the country in autumn 1978, we'd in all likelihood have a very different perception of that period.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited March 2013
    Agreed James. Callaghan's failure to call an election in Oct 1978 cost him and his party dear.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    edited March 2013
    The BBC made a documentary about the no confidence vote in '79, here is the bit (43min in) with the actual reading of the vote. What a corker!

    http://youtu.be/1WRVVdGQcN0
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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited March 2013
    Mike, I agree with you about the play. We saw it last week. To call it vivid would be an understatement. I do believe that nobody could do it better than the National. It'll be good in a cinema, but to see it live takes it to another plane.
    When I see a play and find myself mulling it over, as here, then I know it was special.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2013
    @James Kelly

    'that period' - depending on how you define it - was the period in which the UK was referred to 'as the sick man of Europe' and in which the news headlines were dominated daily by news of the latest strike.

    Between 1960 and 1980 we have the most appallingly incompetent management and leaders in the UK - in Councils, in Companies, in Unions, in Councils, in Westminster, in Whitehall: the entire national leadership was utterly incompetent and our national decline was palpable.

    The same cycle returned in 1995 (or so - White Wednesday was the epoch-marking event) and since then we've had another 20 years of useless leaders in Whitehall, Westminster - and Brussels. On the bright side, Company and Union leaders have been significantly better, though the leaders in the Police have shown themselves to be significantly worse.

    The determination of these people to seize more power for themselves and their cronies, whilst simultaneously making crass and expensive decisions that seriously impacts on the rest of us, is truly frightening - a lack of self-awareness that is beyond parody.

    They simultaneously bemoan the lack of growth in our economy without even mentioning the two primary causes - the National Debt and the various fatuous and facile 'Climate Change' measures (not to mention the suffocating level of regulation and taxes which long since killed off any hope of a revival): you could not create a greater lack of self-awareness.

    Political survival is now the be-all and end-all of their decisions and policies: self and party well above populace and country. Only one party leader is prepared to say 'we've being paying ourselves far, far too much, for waaaaay too long, so that the return to affordable levels of wages and benefits is going to be a long and exceptionally painful process - akin to the hardships of a Wartime economy.

    And he'll be doing exceptionally well to have ten MPs in 2015.

    A revolution is now absolutely inevitable - the exact timing and nature of it are completely unknown, but the idea that, 'under the right government, with the right policies enacted' we can return to the sunny uplands of 1995-2005 (if not since 1950!) is simply beyond farcical: the interest payments, even at under 2%, are simply too big to be sustainable.

    Excessive Govt spending is in the order of £200 billion pa
    The entire Welfare budget is £207 billion pa.

    Those numbers say it all.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2013
    Current temperature in London is -2. After wind chill is taken into account it feels like -5:

    http://www.wunderground.com/weather-forecast/UK/London.html
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2013
    @AndyJS

    Met Office reporting that today is the coldest ever start to an Easter Day: below -12C in parts of Scotland.

    Currently -4.8C here, BUT no wind and a clear blue sky (atm)
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    I see Tim has ghost-written Janet Daley's Sunday Telegraph article this week. He even got a Darling reference in ...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/9962220/George-Osborne-is-the-problem-not-the-solution.html
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914

    Agreed James. Callaghan's failure to call an election in Oct 1978 cost him and his party dear.

    Labour was two parties in all but name by 1978. If they had won in 1978 it would have been a catastrophe. Callaghan did the country a great service, as did Healey. The real villains of 74-79 were Wilson and Benn. The latter was as malign a figure in post-war politics as there has been.

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2013
    An election in October 1978 would probably have been another hung parliament IMO. So the 1979 election might have happened even with a 1978 poll.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited March 2013
    Meanwhile .... Bedford constabulary are believed to be investigating the case of a prominent local LibDem dressed as the Easter Bunny selling fake hair tonic door to door. Police have named the culprit as the

    "Thinning Hare Bunny"

    http://pthumbnails.5min.com/10338250/516912486_5_315_196.jpg
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @SouthamObserver and in a cultural exchange the pb Tories have ghostwritten Andrew Rawnsley's piece:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/31/french-lesson-ed-miliband-proper-plan
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited March 2013
    I will be going to the play for the afternoon performance on the 5th of May and am looking forward to it.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Af - linky no worky...
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Happy Easter to everyone, and if you are not a believer, I hope you get a lovely chocolate egg.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited March 2013
    @JamesKelly
    I remember his broadcast to the country about the non-election as if it were yesterday.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    Happy Easter! Do I need to set Vanilla to BST, or is that something Vanilla or OGH does?

    Ah, Sunny Jim - a decent man leading a party with a death wish- and a country where someone had to cut the Unions down to size:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/10/newsid_2518000/2518957.stm
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    antifrank said:

    @SouthamObserver and in a cultural exchange the pb Tories have ghostwritten Andrew Rawnsley's piece:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/31/french-lesson-ed-miliband-proper-plan

    Link doesn't work, but the subject line gives a clue. The embrace of Hollande was not Ed's finest hour! If Rawnsley is saying Hollande's experience shows being elected because you are the alternative to a deeply unpopular incumbent is not enough of a platform from which to govern I could not agree more. And it's true that some PB Tories have said that. I'd be surprised, though, if Rawnsley has written a piece about Ed sounding and looking funny, and having been opportunistic in a way that no previous LOTO has been!

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @RobD

    Thanks for that video - will watch it in between GE1983 on BBC Parly today!
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @john_zims FPT

    Over a hundred girls being abused is unbelievable. So far the Mirror is the only one reporting it. Presumably this is just other people being slow. Surely even the BBC can't play down the country's biggest ever child sex ring?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    Rawnsley:

    "The most important French lesson for Labour is that things will very quickly unravel if you don't come to power with a solid project for government which has been sold to the voters in advance. I would say there are at least four key aspects to such a project in an age of austerity. One: a plausible plan for how you are going to nurture future prosperity. Two: a clear idea of what you will prioritise for investment. Three: worked-out reforms for maximising the performance of public services. Four: acknowledging in a way which is at least reasonably candid where you will have to cut."

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/31/french-lesson-ed-miliband-proper-plan
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    For science porn watchers - see The Blob swallow a magnet.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcQ3GWpy22Y
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Is the blog an hour slow?
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Yes! switch to summer time Mike.
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    mosesmoses Posts: 45
    I see the BBC and Sky are going on and on about the ' bedroom tax'. So

    a) how is this 'tax' going to be collected
    b) which agency will be responsible for the collection of this 'tax'

    I presume given that Labour are up in arms about it that this is clear to all the Labour supporters on here and being a tax n'all this will be added to the amount that is collected on their members income tax? Or perhaps this is not a tax at all and it's just more leftie propogander like ohhh....... let me see
    " 24 hours to save the NHS" ..... "3 months to save the NHS". Of course Labour were right about that because the NHS collapsed months ago and it no longer exists just as Ed Milliband predicted.

    Oh..... Wait a minute
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    PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 661
    RE PB clock, I have informed OGH..
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Apparently nearly a million on incapacity benefit stopped claiming when they had to have a medical check-one third of all those on the benefit..

    This is Grant Shapps/Green's take on it;

    “It’s cruel, I think the system had actually become literally cruel, even evil to people. People suspected for a long time that incapacity benefit had been used by the previous government to hide the unemployed".

    The interesting thing about Shapps comment is that that was the accusation everyone made about Thatcher when unemployment was top of every politicians list. (Nonetheless ignoring the politics they are pretty interesting figures)
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    hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    @ Moses

    I don't think the NHS reforms start properly until next month and then it will take time to see if they work or not.

    Re spare bedrooms, people will just get less benefits and for some this will be a struggle. For disabled people who need a spare room, they will have to go through hoops to receive money from this pot of money to help. So you could see some disabled people who get hurt by this policy, before they receive the full amount due after assessment. I think the policy is right, but I don't like the way it has been implemented. It is a bit clumsy.

    As for minority or coaltion, we will never know whether Cameron could have successfully led a minority admin for a period. Perhaps it may have worked, as it may have forced the other parties in parliament to work with the government on what spending changes to make. Cameron may have gained credit in trying to unite parliament on common goals and challenging the other parties. Perhaps the Tories would be doing better in polling and stand more chance at a 2015 GE, if they had not gone into coalition.
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,202
    @AN1

    Interesting. I'd disagree about the performance of company bosses over the last 20 years. Most have shown a primary interest in looting their companies at the expense of long term shareholder value as far as I can see. And in the case of the financial services sector this behaviour has been one of the principle agents of our downfall. Here, at least, more regulation is needed, not less.

    The banking crisis has shown the free market model to be fake. And that's at the root of all our problems, as globally, economic policy now seems to be a juggling act that requires the powers that be to devise ever more elaborate fixes that protect the rich at the expense of the poor. For instance, by placing maintenance of asset prices as the unspoken heart of all government policy, when in reality a crash is what we need. I agree that ultimately it will all collapse.
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    hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    @Roger

    It was the Tories who started to hide long term unemployed on incapacity benefits and Labour just continued this on. Don't forget that Labour did start the ATOS medical tests, so they can't really criticise the coalition for continuing with Labours policies.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Fake invalidity claimants running for the hills and housing benefit whining show how ingrained sponging has become - almost as if your human rights have been violated if the govt doesn't borrow money to keep you in the manner you have become accustomed to under Brown.
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Yes I'm going to see this in May. Great reviews all round. Oh... same performance as Old Labour in fact!
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2013
    I have some sympathy with that viewpoint - 'short-termism' seems to have infected everyone in a position of power - but the key problem is summed up in your last point - an asset price crash is absolutely essential, yet every Govt throughout the West seems to be determined that it won't happen on their watch.
    They seem oblivious that the longer the wait, the bigger the crash and the scale of that crash is going to make the 1930's look like a minor cash-flow problem. If Russian scientists are right, we're about to start a new 'Little Ice Age' lasting for decades and that will affect many aspects of our lives, and make the poor even poorer.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,130
    edited March 2013
    The figures for incapacity benefit are just stunning. 873K drop their claims and another 837K were unsuccesful in that they were deemed fit to work.

    Where have all these people gone? It is miraculous that this has not seen a huge surge in unemployment. In fact unemployment has been trending downwards slightly albeit there was a tiny increase in February. The fall in unemployment has been much slower than the increase in employment but the gap is nothing like large enough to reflect these figures.

    So presumably the vast majority did not qualify for means tested benefits? Is that it? Or has the government found somewhere else to categorise them?

    And is this another 900k strongly motivated not to vote tory again?
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited March 2013
    @Carlotta

    "Andrew Gilligan on "Hacked Off"".

    Reading Gilligan is always the same. You start reading and think to yourself that this is sensible stuff and even well argued and just as you're being sucked in..... in true Dr Strangelove fashion the uncontrollable arm comes up and the eyes swivel and before we can say 'Mein Führer' we find ourselves reading about Leveson leading a ruthless left wing conspiracy which is taking OVER THE WORLD
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    @Roger - yes, he starts off well, sticking to facts - he then gets into argument and finally a rush of blood to the head:

    "This was a sort of coup, by people even more unaccountable and unrepresentative than the average newspaper owner."

    I think all concerned have handled post-Leveson poorly - but to claim that "Hacked Off" are even more unrepresentative than "the average newspaper owner" is tin foil territory.

    That said, the more I learn about Hacked Off, the less I like...
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,896
    For petrolheads, the British Touring Car Championship stars this weekend at Brands Hatch.

    There are four champions or ex-champions on the grid, and I'm hoping it'll be as competitive as it was last year. Just as long as Plato doesn't win... (Jason Plato, that is) ;-)

    Full coverage on ITV4 all day, including support races from 10.45 to 18.00. Heaven in my eyes, hell in Mrs J's. Fortunately we spent the day in London and at the theatre yesterday, so I'm in her good books.

    Oh, and the 15-year old lad I've been tipping on here for the last year, Harry Woodhead, has a double pole in the Ginetta Junior races. I won't say who won the first race (which took place yesterday) to stop spoiling it for anyone who might watch.

    http://www.btcc.net/html/home.php
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    hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    @DavidL

    "Where have all these people gone? It is miraculous that this has not seen a huge surge in unemployment."

    If these people have not attended the medical assessments, then their IB or ESA benefits would have been stopped. They then have to make an application for JSA if they require this. I am suspecting that if they are married, have a partner or savings over a certain level, that many have not qualified for JSA. A good number may not have applied for JSA and are living off any household income or savings they have. Some may have got jobs I suppose, but if they had been on IB or ESA for a while, this would not have been an easy task. Perhaps some over 55, have instead applied for an early payout of any private pension they may have.

    I am suspecting that over the next year or so, there will be a steady increase in JSA claimants, as some of those that had received IB or ESA before, start to claim JSA.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    RT @S8mB: Easter miracle! He is risen! 900,000 choose to come off sickness benefit ahead of tests: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9963012/900000-choose-to-come-off-sickness-benefit-ahead-of-tests.html
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    This play had its genesis in the BBC Radio play "How are you feeling, Alf?", which I flagged up here in 2009 as being excellent. If it's repeated make sure you catch it.

    The Alf in question was the Labour MP Alfred Broughton, whose final illness ultimately led to the fall of the government.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited March 2013
    OT What is it about leftover cold Chinese that's so yummy the morning after? I've never felt the same about anything else like Indian or casserole or ... yuck fish and chips...
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    What a fine body - the Police Federation:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/policewoman-sues-man-who-dialled-1794819

    A policewoman is suing a man who dialled 999 during a suspected burglary after she tripped over a kerb at his garage.

    She is believed to have gone to ­hospital to have treatment for her injuries and the claim is believed to have been instigated by the Police Federation.
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    The 1979 no confidence vote - when the SNP brought Mrs Thatcher to power.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @Plato - I'm not a fan of leftover cold Chinese. Cold pizza, however...
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    The 1979 no confidence vote - when the SNP brought Mrs Thatcher to power.

    LOL, you had too much chocolate and addled your brain.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited March 2013
    I *heart* this

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BGrVHS-CYAAoRS-.jpg:large

    PS Mr @PBModerator - why can we post videos but not images?
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    antifrank said:

    @Plato - I'm not a fan of leftover cold Chinese. Cold pizza, however...

    Agree , cold chinese sounds horrible, but pizza next morning is excellent.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576

    The 1979 no confidence vote - when the SNP brought Mrs Thatcher to power.

    As Callaghan observed when all 11 of them voted on a motion he lost by one vote..." Turkeys voting for Christmas" - and so it proved, when 9 of them lost their seats in the GE that followed....

    One wonders how a similarly thwarted SNP might behave in 2015....

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    REd to u-turn on 6k fees cap for students.


    http://stephentall.org/2013/03/31/ed-miliband-tuition-fees/
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    malcolmg said:

    antifrank said:

    @Plato - I'm not a fan of leftover cold Chinese. Cold pizza, however...

    Agree , cold chinese sounds horrible, but pizza next morning is excellent.

    Especially with a fried egg on top!

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @malcolmg and @antifrank

    Hmm - not big on cold pizza, the cheese is too stiff and greasy. I love cheese on toast but when it's less than piping hot - urr urhm...

    Cold ratatouille is also a possibility.
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    PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 661
    @ Plato

    I do not know the answer. I will mention it to OGH.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited March 2013
    @SouthamObserver

    "Especially with a fried egg on top!"

    Are you German? I spent a lot of time in the German bit of Switzerland and everything seemed to come with a fried egg on it - even steaks. YUCK.

    PS And I'm very fond of fried eggs - but on a steak? Or a fried pork/potato dish? Or plonked onto a salad?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @PBModerator - many thanks.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    BBC News has suffered an excess of zeal and apparently put its clock forward two hours.

    "Last updated at 12:05".
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    The 1979 no confidence vote - when the SNP brought Mrs Thatcher to power.

    As Callaghan observed when all 11 of them voted on a motion he lost by one vote..." Turkeys voting for Christmas" - and so it proved, when 9 of them lost their seats in the GE that followed....

    One wonders how a similarly thwarted SNP might behave in 2015....

    you guys do not like principles do you , prefer sleazy , liars who do anything to hold onto power
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,320
    Just loking at it electorally, I think that the problem for the government parties in the coalition is that they've pushed left-of-centre critics into supporting Labour. If the LibDems were in opposition to a Tory minority government, the government would be getting less (controversial legislation through, but protest voters would flow to both the other parties. We'd have had another election by now, and the Tories might have won it, with the anti-Tory vote divided and a request for a doctor's mandate.

    The LibDems are now trying to pull off the trick by being anti-government on lots of issues even while they're still in it. For some regular past LibDem voters, this is enough, which is why their polls are about 3% above the worst. The LibDem leaflets in Eastleigh argued that only they could moderate the excesses of the Tories. But it won't work very far and at some point before 2015 they'll need to decide whether to pull out or not - I predict we'll be debating that intensely in a year's time.
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,202
    antifrank said:

    @Plato - I'm not a fan of leftover cold Chinese. Cold pizza, however...

    Beat me to it.......

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited March 2013
    Speaking of pizza - several years ago - I was very partial to a PizzaHut chicken supreme after a long bout of shopping. They were a trifle salty but nothing too extreme.

    A while ago - I thought I treat myself to one and it was inedible - it was like someone had tipped a drum of Saxa onto it. I've never used salt in my cooking bar the very odd pinch [a tin of salt would last a decade or longer] and never ever on my plate.

    Did I have a bad experience or has the salt levels in other foods reduced so much that they've come into line with my own cooking bar PizzaHut?

    I had a similar experience with a tin of Heinz baked beans - I used to be very fond of them as a kid and bought some a while back - they were so sugared that I tipped my plate with egg and toast into the dog bowl - they are very keen on them.

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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    Have been looking at the proposed extension to the residential car parking zones in Bristol.

    http://www.bristol.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/business_in_bristol/statutory_and_regulatory_services/parking/Residents Parking Areas Mar 2013.pdf

    Looks like another tax on the more affluent suburbs in the North and West of the City, with little attempt to extend it into districts with a higher than usual level of non council tax payment.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Keith Vaz wants a big party stitch-up on immigration, so the public don't get a choice on one of their biggest concerns:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21986035
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    RT @Khyberman: Bloody Poles, coming over here, doing our jobs, bang on time, with a smile on their face, for the price they quoted.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Amusing if tragic

    "The Derbyshire village of Hayfield, with its cobbled streets and picturesque church, seemed the perfect location for a major new BBC costume drama.

    But the producers of The Village, which charts the lives and loves of 'ordinary' Britons over the past 100 years, were unable to cast local residents as extras because of their fake tans, tattoos, piercings and plucked eyebrows.

    The makers of the six-part series, which stars Maxine Peake, Juliet Stevenson and John Simm and which begins on BBC1 tonight, had hoped to use as many extras as possible from Hayfield and the two neighbouring villages that stand in for the drama's fictitious village..." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2301659/No-tans-tattoos-vintage-drama-Producers-BBC-The-Village-unable-cast-Derbyshire-villagers-didnt-look-like-ordinary-Britons.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Plato said:

    Speaking of pizza - several years ago - I was very partial to a PizzaHut chicken supreme after a long bout of shopping. They were a trifle salty but nothing too extreme.

    A while ago - I thought I treat myself to one and it was inedible - it was like someone had tipped a drum of Saxa onto it. I've never used salt in my cooking bar the very odd pinch [a tin of salt would last a decade or longer] and never ever on my plate.

    Did I have a bad experience or has the salt levels in other foods reduced so much that they've come into line with my own cooking bar PizzaHut?

    I had a similar experience with a tin of Heinz baked beans - I used to be very fond of them as a kid and bought some a while back - they were so sugared that I tipped my plate with egg and toast into the dog bowl - they are very keen on them.

    I really think we need to bring in information labels for restaurants. At least for the big chians. It works very well in California.
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323


    As Callaghan observed when all 11 of them voted on a motion he lost by one vote..." Turkeys voting for Christmas" - and so it proved, when 9 of them lost their seats in the GE that followed....

    One wonders how a similarly thwarted SNP might behave in 2015....

    If I recall the rerun of the coverage correctly, independence rated as the most important issue of only 5% of people in Scotland. The SNP presumably didn't think it would be that low (if I'm wrong on the figure; it's certainly very low).

    What situation where you thinking of?
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "And I'm very fond of fried eggs - but on a steak?"

    And why not? The Aussies seem very keen on it but the first place I found this combination was Portugal. Not in the tourist areas, you understand, but in rural restaurants.

    As for salt content, because my kidneys are creaking I am more than usually sensitive to it and in the past couple of years I find that if I dine out I more often than not get a raging thirst about two hours later as sure sign that there was too much salt in the meal. That holds true for all types of restaurant, especially, I am sorry to say, the more expensive ones and curry houses.
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413

    I'd disagree about the performance of company bosses over the last 20 years. Most have shown a primary interest in looting their companies at the expense of long term shareholder value as far as I can see..

    Often said, but I think it is complete nonsense. A quick glance at the FTSE100 reveals dozens of companies where UK bosses have built up world-class shareholder value over the last 20 years: National Grid, Diageo, Compass, Rolls Royce, Reckitt Benckiser, Vodafone, Tesco, Serco, Barclays, HSBC, ARM, Berkley Homes, GKN, Centrica, British Gas, and many more.

    Sure, there are some duffers as well, but overall I'd say UK management is better than ever, and of course the City remains the envy of the world.

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @Socrates

    "I really think we need to bring in information labels for restaurants. At least for the big chains."

    I'm not too fussed about food labelling myself in restaurants as I can guess that something covered in cream sauce, cooked in butter or based on pasta or brioche or whatever isn't going to be slimming.

    My point was more about the changing nature of our diet - I've never been a salty/sugary fan of anything - maybe its because my own taste buds were nuked via an infection a few years ago that I can only really detect salt/sweet tastes now so notice it a lot more?

    I'm very sensitive to both - a meal with too many blanched carrots makes me wince - and toothpaste is like eating sugar cubes. If anyone can recommend a brand that doesn't use artificial sweeteners - I'd much appreciate it. I've never had a sweet-tooth, but its very hard to avoid products with it.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    "And I'm very fond of fried eggs - but on a steak?"

    And why not? The Aussies seem very keen on it but the first place I found this combination was Portugal. Not in the tourist areas, you understand, but in rural restaurants.

    As for salt content, because my kidneys are creaking I am more than usually sensitive to it and in the past couple of years I find that if I dine out I more often than not get a raging thirst about two hours later as sure sign that there was too much salt in the meal. That holds true for all types of restaurant, especially, I am sorry to say, the more expensive ones and curry houses.

    Hurst, good morning. Curry houses are very bad for the amount of salt, also find th eChinese restaurants use of MSG is very similar.
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    On topic: In the adversarial UK context. hung parliaments are a disaster, as indeed the seventies demonstrated. The country is very lucky indeed that in 2010 the arithmetic and politics combined to give us a stable coalition which, for all its faults, has managed to make an excellent start in addressing some of the most deep-seated of our problems, whilst retaining the confidence of the markets. A few seats different either way, and the outcome could have been very unstable.

    Whilst the LibDems have seemed curiously unprepared for what they have been hoping and campaigning for for three-quarters of a century, they have at least stood firm on the central issue of the age, namely the slow and painful business of turning round the horrendous overspend bequeathed by Labour. It is hard to see how that could have been the case with any other arrangement; the urge to sabotage savings for short-term electoral reasons would have been irresistible.

    Whether we will be so lucky in 2015 remains to be seen, but the prudent will be arranging their affairs on the assumption that we might not.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @HurstLlama

    "get a raging thirst about two hours later as sure sign that there was too much salt in the meal"

    I've been like that for years with a bacon sandwich with of course a runny fried egg on top - and ideally served in a bakery bottom bun. They are my favourite breakfast of all time [if I can splash out to a fried tomato even more so]. And smoked salmon with a scrambled egg...

    Alas, I can't eat them without experiencing your own. I'd live on bacon, egg, fried tomato, fried liver sandwiches. Just too yummy for words - but I'd drop dead from salt or Vitamin A poisoning.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited March 2013
    @malcolmg

    I started to do a lot of Chinese cooking as a teenager and recall buying my first bag of MSG from a local Chinese supermarket in Newcastle back in the 80s.

    I had no idea what it was [and naively assumed it was like baking powder] and dipped a wetted finger into the bag of translucent crystals and licked it - I watered at the mouth like I was about to be sick. It was really weird and made me wonder why the Chinese used so much of it in everything. I later learned why but never how it became to popular.

    I adore Chinese food bar the really strange stuff - but always have my MSG experience at the back of my mind - it's a very powerful additive.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Good Morning, Mr. G.,

    I trust you are well. Good to see you on here on a Sunday morning again. Just a pity we have no current topics on Scottish independence to add spice to your day and we are reduced to talking about cooking and curries. Mind you, I have had some fine curries in both Edinburgh (after a pub crawl down Rose Street) and East Kilbride (what a dump that town is) in my time.

    I take what you mean about salt and Indian Restaurants, but there are honourable exceptions. My favourite place is a very old fashioned curry house in Burgess Hill - they only got rid of the red flock wallpaper last year. The owner took it on from his father and still cooks to some of the same recipes that his Dad used when he opened the place in 1957 - authentic Indian cuisine it ain't but Anglo-Indian at its very best.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    LOL Spoof tweet

    RT @Ed_Miliband: Hardworking families have lost an hour of their day thanks to the Time Tax. When will the Tories admit they got it wrong?
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "... a bacon sandwich with of course a runny fried egg on top ..."

    Food of the Gods! Alas, I am not allowed it very often.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    "... a bacon sandwich with of course a runny fried egg on top ..."

    Food of the Gods! Alas, I am not allowed it very often.

    Heaven to have that for breakfast and later a good curry and a few beers, though I do like hand dived scallops to start and a nice piece of fish for main as well.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "Hardworking families have lost an hour of their day thanks to the Time Tax. When will the Tories admit they got it wrong?"

    Its posts like that that show up the need for the like button! Thanks, Miss P.

    Right, off to get on with lunch, but with a smile on my face now.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @HurstLlama

    My biggest beef is that my local Tesco has gone from selling 4 varieties of tomato juice [fresh chilled, Del Monte, John West and OwnBrand] to just their own tetrapak watery version which is VILE and sugary.

    Old PBers will know I've a bit of a potassium/heart failure idiosyncrasy which relies on me eating lots of bananas or drinking copious of the red stuff to make sure I don't drop dead. Clearly the other residents of my locale aren't very keen on this product so its been de-shelved.

    Mutters and plans stock-piling trip to ASDA instead...
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    malcolmg said:

    you guys do not like principles do you , prefer sleazy , liars who do anything to hold onto power

    Good to know that if you had your time again you'd precipitate the election that brought Thatcher to power - tho, the way young Mr Kelly tells it Mrs T was not universally popular in Scotland.....funny that.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    edited March 2013

    malcolmg said:

    you guys do not like principles do you , prefer sleazy , liars who do anything to hold onto power

    Good to know that if you had your time again you'd precipitate the election that brought Thatcher to power - tho, the way young Mr Kelly tells it Mrs T was not universally popular in Scotland.....funny that.
    I think to say she was not universally popular is the understatement of the century. have to say I voted for her, she may have been wrong and went bad but she had convictions and was badly needed in the country at the time. Labour and the unions had almost run it into the ground. Unfortunately nowadays there is little to choose between the dire Labour and Tory politicians.
    It can only be a matter of time till the peasants revolt.

    ps I liked her even though time has shown she made many mistakes.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    Grandiose said:

    What situation where you thinking of?

    That the independence referendum is lost - but as compensation, the SNP do well in the Westminster GE - and as the recent "Boris as Tory Leader" poll showed, the current Labour lead is not as robust as the more thoughtful Labour posters recognise, we end up with another hung parliament....

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    Hopefully this is an early April Fool's joke. If not, Dave may actually be approaching clinical insanity:

    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/scottish-premier-league-cameron-pushing-celtic-rangers-move-084107040.html
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    ThattallfellaThattallfella Posts: 5
    edited March 2013
    I came into politics in 1981 because of the damage I perceived Thatcher was doing to society. Almost everything that has happened since has made me even more convinced she was the wrong answer to the right question.
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    samsam Posts: 727
    Plato said:

    OT What is it about leftover cold Chinese that's so yummy the morning after? I've never felt the same about anything else like Indian or casserole or ... yuck fish and chips...


    A cold ruby is deeelish!
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Believable? Well, at least they won't shag their secretary.

    "Ed Miliband will axe the job of Deputy Prime Minister if he wins the next election.

    The Labour leader believes the post is a needless expense, party sources said.

    The decision would be a blow for Deputy PM and Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg and Labour’s deputy leader ­Harriet Harman.

    The Lib Dems had hoped Mr Clegg, or his successor, would land the £134,000-a-year position if Labour failed to win an outright majority at the 2015 election and needed their support for a coalition government.

    A senior Labour source said: “Ed is unconvinced of the need for a Deputy PM. Nick Clegg only has the job because the Tories had to buy off the Lib Dems.

    “Then there is all the extra cost of the security, special advisers and other costs.”

    A friend of Ms Harman said she would be “disappointed” not to get the job in the event of a Labour win." http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ed-miliband-axe-deputy-pm-1794459
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @ThatTallFella

    So what was the*right answer* in your view?
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    From Roger Helmer MEP: "A straw in the wind: UKIP wins a ward in Wellington with more than double the vote of any other party."

    Must look up the figures. LOL
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576

    Hopefully this is an early April Fool's joke. If not, Dave may actually be approaching clinical insanity:

    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/scottish-premier-league-cameron-pushing-celtic-rangers-move-084107040.html

    That notorious Tory, Jimmy Greaves, disagrees:

    The case for, by Jimmy Greaves

    I’vebeen saying for 50 years that Celtic and Rangers should play in English football – and I haven’t changed my mind.

    Believe it or not, the idea of the Old Firm moving south of the border was being seriously considered even in my playing days, and I always felt it was inevitable.

    I remember playing for Tottenham in pre-season matches against Celtic and Rangers and they were massive occasions which you could never term as friendlies.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/prime-minister-david-cameron-backs-1794754

    "it's a funny old game..."
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Found the figures:

    Congratulations Cllr Denis Allen
    Posted on March 28, 2013 by UKIP Telford & Wrekin — 5 Comments ↓
    UKIP Telford & Wrekin Chairman, Denis Allen, has won tonight’s by-election for the Dothill ward of Wellington Town Council.

    Denis secured a whopping 46.25% of the vote, not just beating the Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem candidates but taking more than double the votes of the second placed Labour candidate.

    The results were:

    Denis Allen
    UKIP
    303 (46.25%)
    Margaret Malcolm
    Labour
    151 (23%)
    Ed Bird
    Conservative
    108 (16.5%)
    David Holloway
    Lib Dem
    90 (13.75%)
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914

    Hopefully this is an early April Fool's joke. If not, Dave may actually be approaching clinical insanity:

    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/scottish-premier-league-cameron-pushing-celtic-rangers-move-084107040.html

    That notorious Tory, Jimmy Greaves, disagrees:

    The case for, by Jimmy Greaves

    I’vebeen saying for 50 years that Celtic and Rangers should play in English football – and I haven’t changed my mind.

    Believe it or not, the idea of the Old Firm moving south of the border was being seriously considered even in my playing days, and I always felt it was inevitable.

    I remember playing for Tottenham in pre-season matches against Celtic and Rangers and they were massive occasions which you could never term as friendlies.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/prime-minister-david-cameron-backs-1794754

    "it's a funny old game..."

    Having heard him speak at Spurs-related events a couple of times, I'd be very surprised if Greavsie was not a Tory or a UKIPer, but that is by the by. Cameron would be mad to get even vaguely involved in this. He would seriously piss off many, many people.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    @Plato - all Leader pronouncements carry*

    *In the event of us forming a government.on our own.

    Coalition - all bets are off - ask the Lib Dems about tuition fees....

    That said, outside a coalition, not sure I see the need for the post - Blair created it to give Prescott a role - since actually "doing something" was beyond him...
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    samsam Posts: 727
    edited March 2013

    Hopefully this is an early April Fool's joke. If not, Dave may actually be approaching clinical insanity:

    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/scottish-premier-league-cameron-pushing-celtic-rangers-move-084107040.html

    That notorious Tory, Jimmy Greaves, disagrees:

    The case for, by Jimmy Greaves

    I’vebeen saying for 50 years that Celtic and Rangers should play in English football – and I haven’t changed my mind.

    Believe it or not, the idea of the Old Firm moving south of the border was being seriously considered even in my playing days, and I always felt it was inevitable.

    I remember playing for Tottenham in pre-season matches against Celtic and Rangers and they were massive occasions which you could never term as friendlies.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/prime-minister-david-cameron-backs-1794754

    "it's a funny old game..."

    Having heard him speak at Spurs-related events a couple of times, I'd be very surprised if Greavsie was not a Tory or a UKIPer, but that is by the by. Cameron would be mad to get even vaguely involved in this. He would seriously piss off many, many people.

    Couldn't have him as a footballer due to him playing for Spurs, but loved him on the telly, especially when he played Frank Pentangelli in The Godfather pt II


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCdpykqAlKM&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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    Hopefully this is an early April Fool's joke. If not, Dave may actually be approaching clinical insanity:

    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/scottish-premier-league-cameron-pushing-celtic-rangers-move-084107040.html

    That notorious Tory, Jimmy Greaves, disagrees:

    The case for, by Jimmy Greaves

    I’vebeen saying for 50 years that Celtic and Rangers should play in English football – and I haven’t changed my mind.

    Believe it or not, the idea of the Old Firm moving south of the border was being seriously considered even in my playing days, and I always felt it was inevitable.

    I remember playing for Tottenham in pre-season matches against Celtic and Rangers and they were massive occasions which you could never term as friendlies.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/prime-minister-david-cameron-backs-1794754

    "it's a funny old game..."

    Having heard him speak at Spurs-related events a couple of times, I'd be very surprised if Greavsie was not a Tory or a UKIPer, but that is by the by. Cameron would be mad to get even vaguely involved in this. He would seriously piss off many, many people.

    Southam, it is in all likelihood Charles Green playing silly beggars again, he did it before

    MANCHESTER United have firmly rejected claims by Rangers chief executive Charles Green that they would welcome the Scottish Third Division side into the English Premier League.

    http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/sport/football/manchester-united-reject-charles-green-s-claim-they-want-rangers-in-england-1-2641708

    On a practicable level, at just exactly what tier do Rangers and Celtic join the English pyramid.

    I can't see two Premier league clubs willing to make way for them nor can I see the Premier League becoming a twenty two team league, there just aren't the dates in the calendar for it.
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    Hopefully this is an early April Fool's joke. If not, Dave may actually be approaching clinical insanity:

    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/scottish-premier-league-cameron-pushing-celtic-rangers-move-084107040.html

    That notorious Tory, Jimmy Greaves, disagrees:

    The case for, by Jimmy Greaves

    I’vebeen saying for 50 years that Celtic and Rangers should play in English football – and I haven’t changed my mind.

    Believe it or not, the idea of the Old Firm moving south of the border was being seriously considered even in my playing days, and I always felt it was inevitable.

    I remember playing for Tottenham in pre-season matches against Celtic and Rangers and they were massive occasions which you could never term as friendlies.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/prime-minister-david-cameron-backs-1794754

    "it's a funny old game..."

    Having heard him speak at Spurs-related events a couple of times, I'd be very surprised if Greavsie was not a Tory or a UKIPer, but that is by the by. Cameron would be mad to get even vaguely involved in this. He would seriously piss off many, many people.

    “Football legend and People columnist Jimmy Greaves said: “I’ll vote Conservative, as I always have, but with no great enthusiasm as I’m not convinced by David Cameron. The country really needs another Margaret Thatcher to sort out a huge financial mess and growing trade union power. I’m certain, though, that Britain is sick and tired of Labour.”

    http://blogs.wsj.com/iainmartin/2010/03/28/ulrika-jonsson-swings-to-tories-labour-fighting-hard-to-hold-morgan-izzard-gary-kemp/
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    Janan Ganesh tweets: "Cutest thing about anti-Osborne right is their belief that Hague wld be any more likely to listen to their nonsense if he were chancellor"
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    On topic, a minority government would not have worked in these economic circumstances, but I'm not sure a second election would have resolved the issue.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "... Blair created it [the DPM job] to give Prescott a role ..."

    I know I am going gently ga-ga but I am fairly sure the first time I remember the term Deputy Prime Minister being used was under MacMillan and then Mrs Thatcher re-established the post for Whitelaw in 1979.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JGForsyth: Why George Osborne won’t be moved http://bit.ly/X5U9sp
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    On a practicable level, at just exactly what tier do Rangers and Celtic join the English pyramid.

    I can't see two Premier league clubs willing to make way for them nor can I see the Premier League becoming a twenty two team league, there just aren't the dates in the calendar for it.



    It would make getting in the CL harder at the top end and make it harder to get into or stay in the PL at the bottom end. English football, with its £3 billion TV deal, does not need or want Celtic and Rangers. Should he really get involved, Cameron would very quickly find that out. Osborne's boos at the Paralympics would be nothing on the constant grief Dave would get. He is best off leaving well alone - though I hope and suspect this is basically a made up story.

This discussion has been closed.