Jeremy Corbyn isn't a disaster because he's extreme, though that certainly doesn't help. He's a disaster because he's inept. That's where Labour is really getting hurt.
Imagine he left office tomorrow. A new leader could rapidly persuade the public that the excursion into Eastern European socialist revivalism was an aberration. But the party would take years, perhaps decades, to shrug off the impression that it was a shambles.
Obviously I might just be indulging in wishful thinking, but I wouldn't necessarily expect the "shambles" aspect to be THAT much of a long-term problem. After all, the Tories got bogged down in process stories about splits and Commons rebellions (on Europe and gay marriage especially) and minor gaffes in the mid-term of the last parliament, but the public seemed to forget about all that quite quickly as soon as they got down to the election campaign business.
What could be much more damaging in the long-run is the perception that Labour are soft on security and "terrorist sympathisers", something which was particularly hard for them to shake in the 1980s because the same mantras were being echoed not just by the leadership, but by local Labour councils too. Ironically, the fact that the media have gone so big on the Labour splits on security/foreign policy might well mean that, unlike in the 1980s, the problems on those issues are isolated to Corbyn personally and thus would cease to be much of a problem when a new leader takes over.
Jeremy Corbyn isn't a disaster because he's extreme, though that certainly doesn't help. He's a disaster because he's inept. That's where Labour is really getting hurt.
Imagine he left office tomorrow. A new leader could rapidly persuade the public that the excursion into Eastern European socialist revivalism was an aberration. But the party would take years, perhaps decades, to shrug off the impression that it was a shambles.
With respect, I entirely disagree. Corbyn is seen as extreme on the most venomous (for Labour) subject of all: security. From his weird remarks about Bin Laden to his love for Hamas to his vacillation over slotting Jihadi John or any Islami-nutter on our streets, all the way to his hugging of the IRA, his desire to disband the British army, and his wish to hand the Falklands, and maybe Trident, Gibraltar and Surrey, to Argentina, he is catastrophically contaminating the Labour brand with the notion that deep down they are idiot lefty wankers who can't keep us safe.
It took Labour two decades to slough off this fatal perception, when previously held, from 1979 on.
He is seen as both inept and extreme - and neither will help.
Filling the shadow cabinet with more people seem as either inept, or extreme, or both, is not going to help.
I am stil amazed that 30 or 40 Lab MPs haven't sorted this out. I can only assume that they think Corbo is a flash in the pan as leader, or not perceived as poorly as he is. How wrong they are.
Jeremy Corbyn isn't a disaster because he's extreme, though that certainly doesn't help. He's a disaster because he's inept. That's where Labour is really getting hurt.
Imagine he left office tomorrow. A new leader could rapidly persuade the public that the excursion into Eastern European socialist revivalism was an aberration. But the party would take years, perhaps decades, to shrug off the impression that it was a shambles.
With respect, I entirely disagree. Corbyn is seen as extreme on the most venomous (for Labour) subject of all: security. From his weird remarks about Bin Laden to his love for Hamas to his vacillation over slotting Jihadi John or any Islami-nutter on our streets, all the way to his hugging of the IRA, his desire to disband the British army, and his wish to hand the Falklands, and maybe Trident, Gibraltar and Surrey, to Argentina, he is catastrophically contaminating the Labour brand with the notion that deep down they are idiot lefty wankers who can't keep us safe.
It took Labour two decades to slough off this fatal perception, when previously held, from 1979 on.
lol, you're both right. Ineptitude and extremism. Now and forever. One and indivisible.
@DMcCaffreySKY: 8 hours stood in a stairwell and the news is: what we reported yesterday. Reshuffle is happening and announcements due tomorrow.
Newsnight just trailed that they are reporting on the reshuffle... going to be quite a short show
Well, it was suggested that Corbyn never actually wanted a reshuffle right now, but it was so heavily trailed that he would face accusations of backing down if he didn't go through with one, which I think is true (not that that is the case, necessarily, but that the assumption a story would be made of it if he did not do it, even if he never planned to), which shows quite well how the assorted odd people who make up the politically aware can make a story out of nothing much at all. Reporting on a reshuffle when no-one has been reshuffled yet, as far as I know, may prove a challenge though.
Yet again, a Labour fiasco overshadows real difficulties for the government. The doctors' strike is going to be very difficult to negotiate. The rise in rail fares and a strike in Wales had the potential to discomfit the government too. All forgotten today, thanks to Labour's game of musical statues.
It's a ridiculous prediction, of course, it's far too soon and the universe might explode before we get there, but, nonetheless, it's kind of a median prediction.
If he is facing Cameron (and I do wonder if Cameron might decide to stay on), I reckon Corbyn could maybe do worse - 25%?
If facing Osborne, a bit better, say 28-29%?
Either way I am finding it hard to see a situation where Corbyn can possibly *win*. Even if there is a nuclear war, or a plague, the biggest black swan in human history, then the voters will cling on to the Tories as being vaguely competent.
In fact this might make a good threader for TSE. Is there any situation where PB-ers honestly think Corbyn's Labour could win an overall majority, and if so, what is it?
It would need a Class A black swan imo. Things like another global downturn are nowhere near severe enough. A lethal pandemic (which he survives) is a possibility. Nuclear war maybe. Then again, he's not the man for a crisis so...
Possibly in the aftermath of the Second Coming? If there are still going to be elections?
Yet again, a Labour fiasco overshadows real difficulties for the government. The doctors' strike is going to be very difficult to negotiate. The rise in rail fares and a strike in Wales had the potential to discomfit the government too. All forgotten today, thanks to Labour's game of musical statues.
All forgotten by political geeks - granted the commentariat can set the narrative that may be picked up by normal people, eventually, but surely those issues will be more noticed regardless, even if they have not been fully taken advantage of.
It's a ridiculous prediction, of course, it's far too soon and the universe might explode before we get there, but, nonetheless, it's kind of a median prediction.
If he is facing Cameron (and I do wonder if Cameron might decide to stay on), I reckon Corbyn could maybe do worse - 25%?
If facing Osborne, a bit better, say 28-29%?
Either way I am finding it hard to see a situation where Corbyn can possibly *win*. Even if there is a nuclear war, or a plague, the biggest black swan in human history, then the voters will cling on to the Tories as being vaguely competent.
In fact this might make a good threader for TSE. Is there any situation where PB-ers honestly think Corbyn's Labour could win an overall majority, and if so, what is it?
It would need a Class A black swan imo. Things like another global downturn are nowhere near severe enough. A lethal pandemic (which he survives) is a possibility. Nuclear war maybe. Then again, he's not the man for a crisis so...
Possibly in the aftermath of the Second Coming? If there are still going to be elections?
He would need to BE the Second Coming....
JC is the way, the truth and the life. According to the Morning Star. Probably.
Well it isn't really a panel show, it is just an excuse for the BBC to hand over more of our money to unfunny people.
Well given it 7 mins and that it felt like 7hrs...
What's the gimmick of this one?
Something to do with names. I don't know in the 7 mins I had it on, it was so mind dumbingly awful I think I lost 50 IQ points and lost the ability to work the remote let alone comprehend what was going on.
Yet again, a Labour fiasco overshadows real difficulties for the government. The doctors' strike is going to be very difficult to negotiate. The rise in rail fares and a strike in Wales had the potential to discomfit the government too. All forgotten today, thanks to Labour's game of musical statues.
The story about the Jihadi John II being able jump bail and get to Syria should cause the government massive problems too.
But do Labour really want to be talking about Jihadi John II after Jez's performance on the original Jihadi John?
IF JJ can't even reshuffle his pack without farce, imagine what a JJ government would be like....I think it would certainly consign piss up in a brewery to the history books.
Think we need a name, we had omnishambles, but this is far far worse...
Corbyn, couldn't arrange for there to be panic in a burning building. He is beyond inept. I feel genuinely sad for the sane Labour supporters lumbered with this no hoper.
IF JJ can't even reshuffle his pack without farce, imagine what a JJ government would be like....I think it would certainly consign piss up in a brewery to the history books.
Think we need a name, we had omnishambles, but this is far far worse...
Corbyn, couldn't arrange for there to be panic in a burning building. He is beyond inept. I feel genuinely sad for the sane Labour supporters lumbered with this no hoper.
If we ever got invaded Corbyn would probably consult Labour members first before responding
Yet again, a Labour fiasco overshadows real difficulties for the government. The doctors' strike is going to be very difficult to negotiate. The rise in rail fares and a strike in Wales had the potential to discomfit the government too. All forgotten today, thanks to Labour's game of musical statues.
The story about the Jihadi John II being able jump bail and get to Syria should cause the government massive problems too.
But do Labour really want to be talking about Jihadi John II after Jez's performance on the original Jihadi John?
It won't be a problem if they can arrange a visit from a reaper drone.
Yet again, a Labour fiasco overshadows real difficulties for the government. The doctors' strike is going to be very difficult to negotiate. The rise in rail fares and a strike in Wales had the potential to discomfit the government too. All forgotten today, thanks to Labour's game of musical statues.
The story about the Jihadi John II being able jump bail and get to Syria should cause the government massive problems too.
But do Labour really want to be talking about Jihadi John II after Jez's performance on the original Jihadi John?
Is it actually Labour policy to prevent Jihadi Whoevers from going to Syria or anywhere?
But do Labour really want to be talking about Jihadi John II after Jez's performance on the original Jihadi John?
Apparently so...
@RhonddaBryant: Is it not shocking that a man arrested in UK for terrorism offences was able to skip bail & leave country with his children bound for Syria?
Yet again, a Labour fiasco overshadows real difficulties for the government. The doctors' strike is going to be very difficult to negotiate. The rise in rail fares and a strike in Wales had the potential to discomfit the government too. All forgotten today, thanks to Labour's game of musical statues.
The story about the Jihadi John II being able jump bail and get to Syria should cause the government massive problems too.
But do Labour really want to be talking about Jihadi John II after Jez's performance on the original Jihadi John?
It won't be a problem if they can arrange a visit from a reaper drone.
Can't we just send JJ to go and have a nice chat with him and convince that lopping people's heads off won't solve anything?
Yet again, a Labour fiasco overshadows real difficulties for the government. The doctors' strike is going to be very difficult to negotiate. The rise in rail fares and a strike in Wales had the potential to discomfit the government too. All forgotten today, thanks to Labour's game of musical statues.
The story about the Jihadi John II being able jump bail and get to Syria should cause the government massive problems too.
But do Labour really want to be talking about Jihadi John II after Jez's performance on the original Jihadi John?
I voted (As good as) for Corbyn in the Labour leadership contest, I'm backing Trump in the GOP race. Going to hell aren't I :?
Yet again, a Labour fiasco overshadows real difficulties for the government. The doctors' strike is going to be very difficult to negotiate. The rise in rail fares and a strike in Wales had the potential to discomfit the government too. All forgotten today, thanks to Labour's game of musical statues.
The story about the Jihadi John II being able jump bail and get to Syria should cause the government massive problems too.
But do Labour really want to be talking about Jihadi John II after Jez's performance on the original Jihadi John?
It won't be a problem if they can arrange a visit from a reaper drone.
I'm not keen on these extra-judicial murders.
We should bring them to trial.
Just imagine if Corbyn and McDonnell became PM etc, would you be happy if they had the ability to murder British citizens without due process?
But do Labour really want to be talking about Jihadi John II after Jez's performance on the original Jihadi John?
Apparently so...
@RhonddaBryant: Is it not shocking that a man arrested in UK for terrorism offences was able to skip bail & leave country with his children bound for Syria?
Yet again, a Labour fiasco overshadows real difficulties for the government. The doctors' strike is going to be very difficult to negotiate. The rise in rail fares and a strike in Wales had the potential to discomfit the government too. All forgotten today, thanks to Labour's game of musical statues.
The story about the Jihadi John II being able jump bail and get to Syria should cause the government massive problems too.
But do Labour really want to be talking about Jihadi John II after Jez's performance on the original Jihadi John?
I voted (As good as) for Corbyn in the Labour leadership contest, I'm backing Trump in the GOP race. Going to hell aren't I :?
Yet again, a Labour fiasco overshadows real difficulties for the government. The doctors' strike is going to be very difficult to negotiate. The rise in rail fares and a strike in Wales had the potential to discomfit the government too. All forgotten today, thanks to Labour's game of musical statues.
All forgotten by political geeks - granted the commentariat can set the narrative that may be picked up by normal people, eventually, but surely those issues will be more noticed regardless, even if they have not been fully taken advantage of.
It's a ridiculous prediction, of course, it's far too soon and the universe might explode before we get there, but, nonetheless, it's kind of a median prediction.
If he is facing Cameron (and I do wonder if Cameron might decide to stay on), I reckon Corbyn could maybe do worse - 25%?
If facing Osborne, a bit better, say 28-29%?
Either way I am finding it hard to see a situation where Corbyn can possibly *win*. Even if there is a nuclear war, or a plague, the biggest black swan in human history, then the voters will cling on to the Tories as being vaguely competent.
In fact this might make a good threader for TSE. Is there any situation where PB-ers honestly think Corbyn's Labour could win an overall majority, and if so, what is it?
It would need a Class A black swan imo. Things like another global downturn are nowhere near severe enough. A lethal pandemic (which he survives) is a possibility. Nuclear war maybe. Then again, he's not the man for a crisis so...
Possibly in the aftermath of the Second Coming? If there are still going to be elections?
He would need to BE the Second Coming....
JC is the way, the truth and the life. According to the Morning Star. Probably.
They will get another bite at the doctors' strike for sure (unless it's settled). The rail stuff really needed to be focused on now.
Yet again, a Labour fiasco overshadows real difficulties for the government. The doctors' strike is going to be very difficult to negotiate. The rise in rail fares and a strike in Wales had the potential to discomfit the government too. All forgotten today, thanks to Labour's game of musical statues.
The story about the Jihadi John II being able jump bail and get to Syria should cause the government massive problems too.
But do Labour really want to be talking about Jihadi John II after Jez's performance on the original Jihadi John?
It won't be a problem if they can arrange a visit from a reaper drone.
I'm not keen on these extra-judicial murders.
We should bring them to trial.
Just imagine if Corbyn and McDonnell became PM etc, would you be happy if they had the ability to murder British citizens without due process?
Yeah, I was probably a bit cavalier in that comment. If we had boots on the ground arrest may be an option. At present, that looks pretty unlikely.
As the fount of all wisdom in these challenging times, I wonder if you could help me with my moral conundrum. Today after a long train journey, I was on the platform in a large English town. There was an increasingly loud altercation wherein two white men with Eastern European accidents were being shouted at loudly by a brown Sikh Big Issue salesman, who harangued them repeatedly thus: "You Are Taking Money From English People. F*** Off Back To Your Own Country". The argument ended peacefully (if not pleasantly) as they caught separate trains. As a well-mannered soul, I was wondering what the ethical response should be. Should it be:
* a) defend the Eastern Europeans * b) defend the Sikh * c) go "f*** it" and get a confectionary bar from the vending machine.
I chose option "c", ate the bar (it was yummy) and proceeded home safely. But I am wondering. What should a less lazy person have done?
Yet again, a Labour fiasco overshadows real difficulties for the government. The doctors' strike is going to be very difficult to negotiate. The rise in rail fares and a strike in Wales had the potential to discomfit the government too. All forgotten today, thanks to Labour's game of musical statues.
The story about the Jihadi John II being able jump bail and get to Syria should cause the government massive problems too.
But do Labour really want to be talking about Jihadi John II after Jez's performance on the original Jihadi John?
I voted (As good as) for Corbyn in the Labour leadership contest, I'm backing Trump in the GOP race. Going to hell aren't I :?
Don't admit that in public, before you know it you will be locked in a padded cell with no shoe laces..
Yet again, a Labour fiasco overshadows real difficulties for the government. The doctors' strike is going to be very difficult to negotiate. The rise in rail fares and a strike in Wales had the potential to discomfit the government too. All forgotten today, thanks to Labour's game of musical statues.
The story about the Jihadi John II being able jump bail and get to Syria should cause the government massive problems too.
But do Labour really want to be talking about Jihadi John II after Jez's performance on the original Jihadi John?
It won't be a problem if they can arrange a visit from a reaper drone.
I'm not keen on these extra-judicial murders.
We should bring them to trial.
Just imagine if Corbyn and McDonnell became PM etc, would you be happy if they had the ability to murder British citizens without due process?
How do you propose bring him to trial?
He is unlikely to leave IS controlled territory and risk arrest.
Are we going to go in and abduct him - return him to the UK and then try him? Can't see it myself.
He is in the most dysfunctional opposition in years (ever) and...he wants to stay in it.
Why?
Hoping to convince Jezza? Building his own power base? One sane voice in the wilderness of the Labour front bench. It makes no sense.
He should leave and take as many as have the cojones (boys and girls) with him.
If he wants the leadership to fall into his lap if and when Corbyn collapses better to stay on the frontbench and look loyal a la Michael Howard than go off in a huff to the backbenches
IF JJ can't even reshuffle his pack without farce, imagine what a JJ government would be like....I think it would certainly consign piss up in a brewery to the history books.
Think we need a name, we had omnishambles, but this is far far worse...
Corbyn, couldn't arrange for there to be panic in a burning building. He is beyond inept. I feel genuinely sad for the sane Labour supporters lumbered with this no hoper.
If we ever got invaded Corbyn would probably consult Labour members first before responding
Given all the pre match talk in the reshuffle programme If Corbyn does not sack Benn and slice him into toast rack sized pieces then he is just another class traitor... If Nukem High Eagles is shifted/sacked from Defence and replaced by some Trident scrapper and Benn himself does not resign then he is a wimp. If some CND type is not parachuted into Defence then Labour are without doubt lost to the loony left in Scotland and Corbn's badge as the great betrayer is burnished even brighter in England
As the fount of all wisdom in these challenging times, I wonder if you could help me with my moral conundrum. Today after a long train journey, I was on the platform in a large English town. There was an increasingly loud altercation wherein two white men with Eastern European accidents were being shouted at loudly by a brown Sikh Big Issue salesman, who harangued them repeatedly thus: "You Are Taking Money From English People. F*** Off Back To Your Own Country". The argument ended peacefully (if not pleasantly) as they caught separate trains. As a well-mannered soul, I was wondering what the ethical response should be. Should it be:
* a) defend the Eastern Europeans * b) defend the Sikh * c) go "f*** it" and get a confectionary bar from the vending machine.
I chose option "c", ate the bar (it was yummy) and proceeded home safely. But I am wondering. What should a less lazy person have done?
Can't be a true story...all Big Issues sellers these days have to be self employed Romanian women who aren't homeless. I believe its the rules.
As the fount of all wisdom in these challenging times, I wonder if you could help me with my moral conundrum. Today after a long train journey, I was on the platform in a large English town. There was an increasingly loud altercation wherein two white men with Eastern European accidents were being shouted at loudly by a brown Sikh Big Issue salesman, who harangued them repeatedly thus: "You Are Taking Money From English People. F*** Off Back To Your Own Country". The argument ended peacefully (if not pleasantly) as they caught separate trains. As a well-mannered soul, I was wondering what the ethical response should be. Should it be:
* a) defend the Eastern Europeans * b) defend the Sikh * c) go "f*** it" and get a confectionary bar from the vending machine.
I chose option "c", ate the bar (it was yummy) and proceeded home safely. But I am wondering. What should a less lazy person have done?
Whatever happened to the vending machines on tube platforms?
As the fount of all wisdom in these challenging times, I wonder if you could help me with my moral conundrum. Today after a long train journey, I was on the platform in a large English town. There was an increasingly loud altercation wherein two white men with Eastern European accidents were being shouted at loudly by a brown Sikh Big Issue salesman, who harangued them repeatedly thus: "You Are Taking Money From English People. F*** Off Back To Your Own Country". The argument ended peacefully (if not pleasantly) as they caught separate trains. As a well-mannered soul, I was wondering what the ethical response should be. Should it be:
* a) defend the Eastern Europeans * b) defend the Sikh * c) go "f*** it" and get a confectionary bar from the vending machine.
I chose option "c", ate the bar (it was yummy) and proceeded home safely. But I am wondering. What should a less lazy person have done?
Can't be a true story...all Big Issues sellers these days have to be self employed Romanian women who aren't homeless. I believe its the rules.
I can assure you it's true. Even down to the yummy bar.
As the fount of all wisdom in these challenging times, I wonder if you could help me with my moral conundrum. Today after a long train journey, I was on the platform in a large English town. There was an increasingly loud altercation wherein two white men with Eastern European accidents were being shouted at loudly by a brown Sikh Big Issue salesman, who harangued them repeatedly thus: "You Are Taking Money From English People. F*** Off Back To Your Own Country". The argument ended peacefully (if not pleasantly) as they caught separate trains. As a well-mannered soul, I was wondering what the ethical response should be. Should it be:
* a) defend the Eastern Europeans * b) defend the Sikh * c) go "f*** it" and get a confectionary bar from the vending machine.
I chose option "c", ate the bar (it was yummy) and proceeded home safely. But I am wondering. What should a less lazy person have done?
I might have to watch Newsnight just to see the sadness in the eyes of all the lefty Newsnight presenters trying to spin today as anything but a mega omnishambles without breaking down in tears at what the Labour party has become.
He is in the most dysfunctional opposition in years (ever) and...he wants to stay in it.
Why?
Hoping to convince Jezza? Building his own power base? One sane voice in the wilderness of the Labour front bench. It makes no sense.
He should leave and take as many as have the cojones (boys and girls) with him.
Benn has neither the balls, nor the followers to do so, that much is painfully clear.
Still, good to see the excuses being prepared for Corbyn's car crash reshuffle. The claims that he never meant to have one and was bounced into it by media speculation is a hoot.
He is in the most dysfunctional opposition in years (ever) and...he wants to stay in it.
Why?
Hoping to convince Jezza? Building his own power base? One sane voice in the wilderness of the Labour front bench. It makes no sense.
He should leave and take as many as have the cojones (boys and girls) with him.
If he wants the leadership to fall into his lap if and when Corbyn collapses better to stay on the frontbench and look loyal a la Michael Howard than go off in a huff to the backbenches
In normal times in a normal party perhaps. We've gone beyond that haven't we? The longer he stays the more he becomes associated with the lunacy.
I might have to watch Newsnight just to see the sadness in the eyes of all the lefty Newsnight presenters trying to spin today as anything but a mega omnishambles without breaking down in tears at what the Labour party has become.
Coming off the back of the new 'panel show' where they had the entire on-screen 'talent' shrieking in horror that someone might be Tory...
As the fount of all wisdom in these challenging times, I wonder if you could help me with my moral conundrum. Today after a long train journey, I was on the platform in a large English town. There was an increasingly loud altercation wherein two white men with Eastern European accidents were being shouted at loudly by a brown Sikh Big Issue salesman, who harangued them repeatedly thus: "You Are Taking Money From English People. F*** Off Back To Your Own Country". The argument ended peacefully (if not pleasantly) as they caught separate trains. As a well-mannered soul, I was wondering what the ethical response should be. Should it be:
* a) defend the Eastern Europeans * b) defend the Sikh * c) go "f*** it" and get a confectionary bar from the vending machine.
I chose option "c", ate the bar (it was yummy) and proceeded home safely. But I am wondering. What should a less lazy person have done?
Are you a middleweight boxer? If not I do not see what you could have done. Did the Big Issue salesman catch one of the trains?
Yet again, a Labour fiasco overshadows real difficulties for the government. The doctors' strike is going to be very difficult to negotiate. The rise in rail fares and a strike in Wales had the potential to discomfit the government too. All forgotten today, thanks to Labour's game of musical statues.
The story about the Jihadi John II being able jump bail and get to Syria should cause the government massive problems too.
But do Labour really want to be talking about Jihadi John II after Jez's performance on the original Jihadi John?
It won't be a problem if they can arrange a visit from a reaper drone.
I'm not keen on these extra-judicial murders.
We should bring them to trial.
Just imagine if Corbyn and McDonnell became PM etc, would you be happy if they had the ability to murder British citizens without due process?
I'm not keen on this bombing of German cities, I'd much prefer we brought Nazis to...
Oh.
Ah yes, the Nuremberg trials
(My original comment was slightly tongue in cheek, I'm ok with terrorists being zapped out by drones in Syria, I just would like to see how the government process works)
I might have to watch Newsnight just to see the sadness in the eyes of all the lefty Newsnight presenters trying to spin today as anything but a mega omnishambles without breaking down in tears at what the Labour party has become.
I think most people will have been watching Ant and Dec meet Prince Charles on ITV and will probably stay on ITV for the news after so Newsnight may have below average ratings anyway tonight
As the fount of all wisdom in these challenging times, I wonder if you could help me with my moral conundrum. Today after a long train journey, I was on the platform in a large English town. There was an increasingly loud altercation wherein two white men with Eastern European accidents were being shouted at loudly by a brown Sikh Big Issue salesman, who harangued them repeatedly thus: "You Are Taking Money From English People. F*** Off Back To Your Own Country". The argument ended peacefully (if not pleasantly) as they caught separate trains. As a well-mannered soul, I was wondering what the ethical response should be. Should it be:
* a) defend the Eastern Europeans * b) defend the Sikh * c) go "f*** it" and get a confectionary bar from the vending machine.
I chose option "c", ate the bar (it was yummy) and proceeded home safely. But I am wondering. What should a less lazy person have done?
Can't be a true story...all Big Issues sellers these days have to be self employed Romanian women who aren't homeless. I believe its the rules.
All the Big Issue sellers around here are sweet, friendly Roma women who wish you a good day, Happy Christmas, Happy New Year, God Bless, and take no umbrage when you refuse to give them cash... in *some* ways they are an improvement from the gruff and churlish junkies of yore.
"Sauce" suggests rather than "source."? It is late, and journos are thirsty types I believe. It would make more sense at least in the real world. Gets coat.
I might have to watch Newsnight just to see the sadness in the eyes of all the lefty Newsnight presenters trying to spin today as anything but a mega omnishambles without breaking down in tears at what the Labour party has become.
I think most people will have been watching Ant and Dec meet Prince Charles on ITV and will probably stay on ITV for the news after so Newsnight may have below average ratings anyway tonight
IF JJ can't even reshuffle his pack without farce, imagine what a JJ government would be like....I think it would certainly consign piss up in a brewery to the history books.
Think we need a name, we had omnishambles, but this is far far worse...
Corbyn, couldn't arrange for there to be panic in a burning building. He is beyond inept. I feel genuinely sad for the sane Labour supporters lumbered with this no hoper.
If we ever got invaded Corbyn would probably consult Labour members first before responding
Given all the pre match talk in the reshuffle programme If Corbyn does not sack Benn and slice him into toast rack sized pieces then he is just another class traitor... If Nukem High Eagles is shifted/sacked from Defence and replaced by some Trident scrapper and Benn himself does not resign then he is a wimp. If some CND type is not parachuted into Defence then Labour are without doubt lost to the loony left in Scotland and Corbn's badge as the great betrayer is burnished even brighter in England
The twitterati left seem to see Corbyn as the new Messiah so will likely back him regardless and I expect Benn will still be moved in some fashion
He is in the most dysfunctional opposition in years (ever) and...he wants to stay in it.
Why?
Hoping to convince Jezza? Building his own power base? One sane voice in the wilderness of the Labour front bench. It makes no sense.
He should leave and take as many as have the cojones (boys and girls) with him.
Benn has neither the balls, nor the followers to do so, that much is painfully clear.
Still, good to see the excuses being prepared for Corbyn's car crash reshuffle. The claims that he never meant to have one and was bounced into it by media speculation is a hoot.
Yes the corollary of "we must do something, this is something, we must do it." is "Jezza needs to go, Benn is in the spotlight as being anti-Jezza, Benn must be leader (or leave)."
I would love for this to be true, if for no other reason than to watch her attempt any vaguely military activity. Examples being mount an AFV, wear a helmet, wear body armour the list of hilarious photo ops is virtually endless.
As the fount of all wisdom in these challenging times, I wonder if you could help me with my moral conundrum. Today after a long train journey, I was on the platform in a large English town. There was an increasingly loud altercation wherein two white men with Eastern European accidents were being shouted at loudly by a brown Sikh Big Issue salesman, who harangued them repeatedly thus: "You Are Taking Money From English People. F*** Off Back To Your Own Country". The argument ended peacefully (if not pleasantly) as they caught separate trains. As a well-mannered soul, I was wondering what the ethical response should be. Should it be:
* a) defend the Eastern Europeans * b) defend the Sikh * c) go "f*** it" and get a confectionary bar from the vending machine.
I chose option "c", ate the bar (it was yummy) and proceeded home safely. But I am wondering. What should a less lazy person have done?
Are you a middleweight boxer? If not I do not see what you could have done. Did the Big Issue salesman catch one of the trains?
I am not a boxer. The Big Issue salesman did catch one of the trains.
As the fount of all wisdom in these challenging times, I wonder if you could help me with my moral conundrum. Today after a long train journey, I was on the platform in a large English town. There was an increasingly loud altercation wherein two white men with Eastern European accidents were being shouted at loudly by a brown Sikh Big Issue salesman, who harangued them repeatedly thus: "You Are Taking Money From English People. F*** Off Back To Your Own Country". The argument ended peacefully (if not pleasantly) as they caught separate trains. As a well-mannered soul, I was wondering what the ethical response should be. Should it be:
* a) defend the Eastern Europeans * b) defend the Sikh * c) go "f*** it" and get a confectionary bar from the vending machine.
I chose option "c", ate the bar (it was yummy) and proceeded home safely. But I am wondering. What should a less lazy person have done?
Whatever happened to the vending machines on tube platforms?
They take your money and never give the choccy, and there is never time before the train to complain.
Best to stick to the people watching. My instinct is against the BI sales person. It has becomd a terrible racket.
He is in the most dysfunctional opposition in years (ever) and...he wants to stay in it.
Why?
Hoping to convince Jezza? Building his own power base? One sane voice in the wilderness of the Labour front bench. It makes no sense.
He should leave and take as many as have the cojones (boys and girls) with him.
If he wants the leadership to fall into his lap if and when Corbyn collapses better to stay on the frontbench and look loyal a la Michael Howard than go off in a huff to the backbenches
In normal times in a normal party perhaps. We've gone beyond that haven't we? The longer he stays the more he becomes associated with the lunacy.
Yes he who wields the dagger never wears the crown and he cannot directly be associated with the plotters
As the fount of all wisdom in these challenging times, I wonder if you could help me with my moral conundrum. Today after a long train journey, I was on the platform in a large English town. There was an increasingly loud altercation wherein two white men with Eastern European accidents were being shouted at loudly by a brown Sikh Big Issue salesman, who harangued them repeatedly thus: "You Are Taking Money From English People. F*** Off Back To Your Own Country". The argument ended peacefully (if not pleasantly) as they caught separate trains. As a well-mannered soul, I was wondering what the ethical response should be. Should it be:
* a) defend the Eastern Europeans * b) defend the Sikh * c) go "f*** it" and get a confectionary bar from the vending machine.
I chose option "c", ate the bar (it was yummy) and proceeded home safely. But I am wondering. What should a less lazy person have done?
Are you a middleweight boxer? If not I do not see what you could have done. Did the Big Issue salesman catch one of the trains?
I am not a boxer. The Big Issue salesman did catch one of the trains.
I would love for this to be true, if for no other reason than to watch her attempt any vaguely military activity. Examples being mount an AFV, wear a helmet, wear body armour the list of hilarious photo ops is virtually endless.
She could be like the female recruit that's not very good at assault courses in Officer and a Gentleman (with Clive Lewis in the role of Richard Gere)?
Once again, Corbyn does not care about the reshuffle beyond the extent to which it helps him engineer the far left's attempts to takeover all Labour levers. Reaction to events from the PLP, the media and/or voters are of no consequnce - what matters is the membership. As long as members stick with him that is all that matters. Corbyn has no interest in Labour gaining power. He is focused solely on taking over Labour.
Yet again, a Labour fiasco overshadows real difficulties for the government. The doctors' strike is going to be very difficult to negotiate. The rise in rail fares and a strike in Wales had the potential to discomfit the government too. All forgotten today, thanks to Labour's game of musical statues.
The story about the Jihadi John II being able jump bail and get to Syria should cause the government massive problems too.
But do Labour really want to be talking about Jihadi John II after Jez's performance on the original Jihadi John?
It won't be a problem if they can arrange a visit from a reaper drone.
"He will make an excellent drone!" - Data in Star Trek: First Contact
@Maomentum_: JC: We will proceed no further in this business SM: Wouldst thou live a coward in thine own esteem, Letting 'I dare not' wait upon 'I would'
It won't be a problem if they can arrange a visit from a reaper drone.
I expect that being the new Jihadi John will be a career move like being the new AQ No. 2. The turnover is rapid.
ISIS CinC - John2, We need a futile gesture at this stage. It will lower the whole tone of the war John2 - Yes Sir? ISIS CinC - Yes. Go out show yourself in public and do a vile YouTube video, and John2? John2 - Yes? ISIS CinC - Don't come back
Even to her fans, surely Abbot would be unsuited to that role? Sounds like the sort of rumour designed to make whoever actually gets it look better by comparison.
Even to her fans, surely Abbot would be unsuited to that role? Sounds like the sort of rumour designed to make whoever actually gets it look better by comparison.
Comments
What could be much more damaging in the long-run is the perception that Labour are soft on security and "terrorist sympathisers", something which was particularly hard for them to shake in the 1980s because the same mantras were being echoed not just by the leadership, but by local Labour councils too. Ironically, the fact that the media have gone so big on the Labour splits on security/foreign policy might well mean that, unlike in the 1980s, the problems on those issues are isolated to Corbyn personally and thus would cease to be much of a problem when a new leader takes over.
Filling the shadow cabinet with more people seem as either inept, or extreme, or both, is not going to help.
I am stil amazed that 30 or 40 Lab MPs haven't sorted this out. I can only assume that they think Corbo is a flash in the pan as leader, or not perceived as poorly as he is. How wrong they are.
Simon Danczuk Shadow Minister for Women
But do Labour really want to be talking about Jihadi John II after Jez's performance on the original Jihadi John?
@RhonddaBryant: Is it not shocking that a man arrested in UK for terrorism offences was able to skip bail & leave country with his children bound for Syria?
@MrHarryCole: Urgent Question tomorrow if you have a shadow Home Secretary by 14:30? https://t.co/EmDwoQwhT6
@patrick_kidd: @MrHarryCole there will be PQs and the PM's statement first so he'll have until at least 4.30 to decide about shadow home secretary
He is in the most dysfunctional opposition in years (ever) and...he wants to stay in it.
Why?
Hoping to convince Jezza? Building his own power base? One sane voice in the wilderness of the Labour front bench. It makes no sense.
He should leave and take as many as have the cojones (boys and girls) with him.
We should bring them to trial.
Just imagine if Corbyn and McDonnell became PM etc, would you be happy if they had the ability to murder British citizens without due process?
It's letting them back in that's the government's weak spot.
And what is the current Labour policy on border controls both in and out of the UK?
Until they can start elucidating solutions, they are of no relevance.
Dear PB
As the fount of all wisdom in these challenging times, I wonder if you could help me with my moral conundrum. Today after a long train journey, I was on the platform in a large English town. There was an increasingly loud altercation wherein two white men with Eastern European accidents were being shouted at loudly by a brown Sikh Big Issue salesman, who harangued them repeatedly thus: "You Are Taking Money From English People. F*** Off Back To Your Own Country". The argument ended peacefully (if not pleasantly) as they caught separate trains. As a well-mannered soul, I was wondering what the ethical response should be. Should it be:
* a) defend the Eastern Europeans
* b) defend the Sikh
* c) go "f*** it" and get a confectionary bar from the vending machine.
I chose option "c", ate the bar (it was yummy) and proceeded home safely. But I am wondering. What should a less lazy person have done?
Oh.
He is unlikely to leave IS controlled territory and risk arrest.
Are we going to go in and abduct him - return him to the UK and then try him? Can't see it myself.
https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/684136130195943424
If Corbyn does not sack Benn and slice him into toast rack sized pieces then he is just another class traitor...
If Nukem High Eagles is shifted/sacked from Defence and replaced by some Trident scrapper and Benn himself does not resign then he is a wimp.
If some CND type is not parachuted into Defence then Labour are without doubt lost to the loony left in Scotland and Corbn's badge as the great betrayer is burnished even brighter in England
"two are wonderful but three might just be too many"
always keep one wish in reserve...
Still, good to see the excuses being prepared for Corbyn's car crash reshuffle. The claims that he never meant to have one and was bounced into it by media speculation is a hoot.
Newsnight might seem balanced!
Did the Big Issue salesman catch one of the trains?
(My original comment was slightly tongue in cheek, I'm ok with terrorists being zapped out by drones in Syria, I just would like to see how the government process works)
Tuesday's Scottish Daily Mail:
Hypocrisy of SNP MP with £630,000 property empire
#tomorrowspaperstoday #scotpapers
http://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/684138292376383488/photo/1
Of course as you say he is not up to it.
Go Stevie K!
Best to stick to the people watching. My instinct is against the BI sales person. It has becomd a terrible racket.
04 JAN 2016: CON 39% LAB 29% (Corbyn)
04 JAN 2011: CON 40% LAB 42% (Miliband)
http://ln.is/co.uk/oBUAa
JC: If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well
It were done quickly
SM: screw your courage to the sticking-place,
And we'll not fail
Coming up on #Newsnight, the Simon Danczuk car crash.
SM: Wouldst thou live a coward in thine own esteem,
Letting 'I dare not' wait upon 'I would'
Median* price: £98,975
http://www.home.co.uk/guides/house_prices.htm?location=east_kilbride
John2 - Yes Sir?
ISIS CinC - Yes. Go out show yourself in public and do a vile YouTube video, and John2?
John2 - Yes?
ISIS CinC - Don't come back
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton?lang=en-gb