This is reminiscent of the glory days of Tony Blair - the unforgettable time he announced that Charles Clarke had accepted the post of Foreign Secretary while Charles Clarke was announcing his sacking to the media and saying Blair didn't have a clue what he was doing.
Blair's best reshuffle was the one where he abolished the role of Lord Chancellor, then had to backtrack when it was pointed out he needed to pass primary legislation to abolish the role.
I had forgotten that remarkably illustrious cock-up, but in my defence I was only 16 at the time.
PS - surely even Corbyn couldn't abolish the post of SFS only to find out there needs to be someone to answer this statement tomorrow? Surely?
After the Tory wipeout in 1997, John Major acted as Shadow Foreign Secretary for a few weeks.
Surely the two of you are not suggesting that Corbyn is in as bad a mess as John Major, who had just lost half his MPs (including six cabinet ministers and all their seats outside England) and had to resign after the worst result the Conservatives had suffered in the age of universal suffrage?
If he is, then he's in much worse trouble than even I thought.
This is reminiscent of the glory days of Tony Blair - the unforgettable time he announced that Charles Clarke had accepted the post of Foreign Secretary while Charles Clarke was announcing his sacking to the media and saying Blair didn't have a clue what he was doing.
Blair's best reshuffle was the one where he abolished the role of Lord Chancellor, then had to backtrack when it was pointed out he needed to pass primary legislation to abolish the role.
You'd think a lawyer would know that, wouldn't you.
Blair was terrible at reshuffles. I'd forgotten that.
To be fair, most lawyers would know that there was a Lord Chancellor - not how the post came about or how entrenched it was in legislation. It is not the sort of constitutional nicety that is covered in any course.
(And I speak as someone who has been through the Oxford Jurisprudence course!)
Good point Simon - but not as if this was any old lawyer. This was a barrister who had been in the Commons since the 80s.
It is like Josh Lyman not knowing how to get to the Capitol building from the OEOB.
"How is Jeremy Corbyn's Labour faring in elections so far?"
I read a post yesterday from NickP on why he voted for Corbyn and why he'd do the same today....in sum a lefty and an all round good egg.....
It reminded me of an interview Frank Dobson gave when he was competing with Ken Livingstone for Mayor of London. He told how Livingstone had spent an age explaining to a female voter the danger of nuclear weapons. After a lot of nodding the lady said 'but what are you going to do about getting our bins emptied?'
The problem with Corbyn is that he's complete rubbish as an opposition leader. He doesn't give the impression of having the first idea what his job entails. So far all he's succeeded in doing is making Osborne look human. I've been Labour cannon fodder since I first started voting. I know no one who sees a Corbyn led Labour Party as other than a joke and that includes me.
Mixed emotions on this posting.... similar mixed reaction on just seeing that tim on twitter appears to have nearly given up posting there too such is his despondency.
In the latest yougov the Tories actually lead Labour in London and Scotland and Labour can only tie the Tories in the North
I'm not being serious HYUFD - I'm referring to my suggestion for the next election's 'Labour is only interested in London' campaign strategy that the Tories should run.
This is reminiscent of the glory days of Tony Blair - the unforgettable time he announced that Charles Clarke had accepted the post of Foreign Secretary while Charles Clarke was announcing his sacking to the media and saying Blair didn't have a clue what he was doing.
Blair's best reshuffle was the one where he abolished the role of Lord Chancellor, then had to backtrack when it was pointed out he needed to pass primary legislation to abolish the role.
You'd think a lawyer would know that, wouldn't you.
Blair was terrible at reshuffles. I'd forgotten that.
To be fair, most lawyers would know that there was a Lord Chancellor - not how the post came about or how entrenched it was in legislation. It is not the sort of constitutional nicety that is covered in any course.
(And I speak as someone who has been through the Oxford Jurisprudence course!)
Good point Simon - but not as if this was any old lawyer. This was a barrister who had been in the Commons since the 80s.
It is like Josh Lyman not knowing how to get to the Capitol building from the OEOB.
I doubt if any barrister would have given a lot of thought to how you abolish the role of Lord Chancellor. A Prime Minister who wanted to do so should have sought proper legal advice before taking such a step - and it is a testament to Blair's failings that he did not do so.
Any future changes to the roles of the legal officers will come with a large red flag attached thanks to his stupidity on that occasion.
"How is Jeremy Corbyn's Labour faring in elections so far?"
I read a post yesterday from NickP on why he voted for Corbyn and why he'd do the same today....in sum a lefty and an all round good egg.....
It reminded me of an interview Frank Dobson gave when he was competing with Ken Livingstone for Mayor of London. He told how Livingstone had spent an age explaining to a female voter the danger of nuclear weapons. After a lot of nodding the lady said 'but what are you going to do about getting our bins emptied?'
The problem with Corbyn is that he's complete rubbish as an opposition leader. He doesn't give the impression of having the first idea what his job entails. So far all he's succeeded in doing is making Osborne look human. I've been Labour cannon fodder since I first started voting. I know no one who sees a Corbyn led Labour Party as other than a joke and that includes me.
Mixed emotions on this posting.... similar mixed reaction on just seeing that tim on twitter appears to have nearly given up posting there too such is his despondency.
Makes me almost wish for Labour to win London and do better than expected in the May locals - the amazed reactions from non-corbynites and Tories would be hilarious.
However, the Conservative Party as a whole is seen as marginally more right-wing than the Labour Party as a whole is seen as left-wing.
Sure. But you know what happens in a GE campaign - the leader is everything and amounts to about 90% of the campaign which the public sees.
I agree, but I don't expect Corbyn to be leader in a GE campaign. What this poll does indicate is that the public (rightly) distinguishes between Corbyn and the Labour Party "brand" as a whole, which should stand them in good stead with another Lab leader against potentially the Bond villain at the next election.
"How is Jeremy Corbyn's Labour faring in elections so far?"
I read a post yesterday from NickP on why he voted for Corbyn and why he'd do the same today....in sum a lefty and an all round good egg.....
It reminded me of an interview Frank Dobson gave when he was competing with Ken Livingstone for Mayor of London. He told how Livingstone had spent an age explaining to a female voter the danger of nuclear weapons. After a lot of nodding the lady said 'but what are you going to do about getting our bins emptied?'
The problem with Corbyn is that he's complete rubbish as an opposition leader. He doesn't give the impression of having the first idea what his job entails. So far all he's succeeded in doing is making Osborne look human. I've been Labour cannon fodder since I first started voting. I know no one who sees a Corbyn led Labour Party as other than a joke and that includes me.
Roger it will get better. I felt the same during the leadership of IDS. A few years later we chose Cameron and the rest is history.
However, the Conservative Party as a whole is seen as marginally more right-wing than the Labour Party as a whole is seen as left-wing.
Sure. But you know what happens in a GE campaign - the leader is everything and amounts to about 90% of the campaign which the public sees.
I agree, but I don't expect Corbyn to be leader in a GE campaign. What this poll does indicate is that the public (rightly) distinguishes between Corbyn and the Labour Party "brand" as a whole, which should stand them in good stead with another Lab leader against potentially the Bond villain at the next election.
I'm not sure how long that will last once the Labour shad cab are all singing from the same hymnsheet.
People are already seeing that Labour on TV/radio = Diane Abbott. That is enough to tarnish any brand.
However, the Conservative Party as a whole is seen as marginally more right-wing than the Labour Party as a whole is seen as left-wing.
Sure. But you know what happens in a GE campaign - the leader is everything and amounts to about 90% of the campaign which the public sees.
I agree, but I don't expect Corbyn to be leader in a GE campaign. What this poll does indicate is that the public (rightly) distinguishes between Corbyn and the Labour Party "brand" as a whole, which should stand them in good stead with another Lab leader against potentially the Bond villain at the next election.
But each day that Corbyn and Momentum preside over Labour, the greater the damage to the Labour brand. Some of that damage will take years and years to heal.
However, the Conservative Party as a whole is seen as marginally more right-wing than the Labour Party as a whole is seen as left-wing.
Sure. But you know what happens in a GE campaign - the leader is everything and amounts to about 90% of the campaign which the public sees.
I agree, but I don't expect Corbyn to be leader in a GE campaign. What this poll does indicate is that the public (rightly) distinguishes between Corbyn and the Labour Party "brand" as a whole, which should stand them in good stead with another Lab leader against potentially the Bond villain at the next election.
Yes but it took the Tories another election defeat for the public to trust their brand after electing IDS, I expect Labour to suffer the same fate after electing Corbyn
In the latest yougov the Tories actually lead Labour in London and Scotland and Labour can only tie the Tories in the North
I'm not being serious HYUFD - I'm referring to my suggestion for the next election's 'Labour is only interested in London' campaign strategy that the Tories should run.
Well inevitably but Labour could still yet lose London too
However, the Conservative Party as a whole is seen as marginally more right-wing than the Labour Party as a whole is seen as left-wing.
Sure. But you know what happens in a GE campaign - the leader is everything and amounts to about 90% of the campaign which the public sees.
I agree, but I don't expect Corbyn to be leader in a GE campaign. What this poll does indicate is that the public (rightly) distinguishes between Corbyn and the Labour Party "brand" as a whole, which should stand them in good stead with another Lab leader against potentially the Bond villain at the next election.
I'm not sure how long that will last once the Labour shad cab are all singing from the same hymnsheet.
People are already seeing that Labour on TV/radio = Diane Abbott. That is enough to tarnish any brand.
However, the Conservative Party as a whole is seen as marginally more right-wing than the Labour Party as a whole is seen as left-wing.
Sure. But you know what happens in a GE campaign - the leader is everything and amounts to about 90% of the campaign which the public sees.
I agree, but I don't expect Corbyn to be leader in a GE campaign. What this poll does indicate is that the public (rightly) distinguishes between Corbyn and the Labour Party "brand" as a whole, which should stand them in good stead with another Lab leader against potentially the Bond villain at the next election.
I'm not sure how long that will last once the Labour shad cab are all singing from the same hymnsheet.
People are already seeing that Labour on TV/radio = Diane Abbott. That is enough to tarnish any brand.
I have no idea of innocence or guilt, but I have to say I have quite a lot of sympathy with SeanT proposal that in this specific case that the alleged perp isn't named at this stage. It seems we have had a hell of a lot of high profile people named, shamed and ultimately found innocent.
So are we going to get a new "NEW LABOUR PARTY" or not?? Has Benn actually gone? Will everyone left be a revolutionary commie? Will Nick Palmer be promoted to the Lords as Minister for "Doublethink"?
"How is Jeremy Corbyn's Labour faring in elections so far?"
I read a post yesterday from NickP on why he voted for Corbyn and why he'd do the same today....in sum a lefty and an all round good egg.....
It reminded me of an interview Frank Dobson gave when he was competing with Ken Livingstone for Mayor of London. He told how Livingstone had spent an age explaining to a female voter the danger of nuclear weapons. After a lot of nodding the lady said 'but what are you going to do about getting our bins emptied?'
The problem with Corbyn is that he's complete rubbish as an opposition leader. He doesn't give the impression of having the first idea what his job entails. So far all he's succeeded in doing is making Osborne look human. I've been Labour cannon fodder since I first started voting. I know no one who sees a Corbyn led Labour Party as other than a joke and that includes me.
Mixed emotions on this posting.... similar mixed reaction on just seeing that tim on twitter appears to have nearly given up posting there too such is his despondency.
Makes me almost wish for Labour to win London and do better than expected in the May locals - the amazed reactions from non-corbynites and Tories would be hilarious.
Weeell, it's odd-on that Sadiq wins and beating expectations for the locals may not be that hard either. People are already predicting a loss of 200 seats. By election day they will probably be predicting that Labour lose more seats than are actually being contested.
However, the Conservative Party as a whole is seen as marginally more right-wing than the Labour Party as a whole is seen as left-wing.
Sure. But you know what happens in a GE campaign - the leader is everything and amounts to about 90% of the campaign which the public sees.
I agree, but I don't expect Corbyn to be leader in a GE campaign. What this poll does indicate is that the public (rightly) distinguishes between Corbyn and the Labour Party "brand" as a whole, which should stand them in good stead with another Lab leader against potentially the Bond villain at the next election.
I'm not sure how long that will last once the Labour shad cab are all singing from the same hymnsheet.
People are already seeing that Labour on TV/radio = Diane Abbott. That is enough to tarnish any brand.
And Ken Livingstone
What you saying, that is the Labour Dream Team...
Add in Emily Thornberry, that working class vote-getter
Police confirm that sex text MP Simon Danczuk is being investigated for rape as he is heckled outside his own office by ex-wife Karen's brother - who is also facing rape charges .
Michael Burke, 38, was photographed heckling embattled MP in Rochdale . The Security guard is the brother of Mr Danczuk's selfie-loving ex-wife Karen. His first wife Sonia Rossington today said she would report him to police
Police confirm that sex text MP Simon Danczuk is being investigated for rape as he is heckled outside his own office by ex-wife Karen's brother - who is also facing rape charges .
Michael Burke, 38, was photographed heckling embattled MP in Rochdale . The Security guard is the brother of Mr Danczuk's selfie-loving ex-wife Karen. His first wife Sonia Rossington today said she would report him to police
I have been really interested in politics for twenty five years, I've never known anything like this or pretty much what has gone on since May 7th last year.
However, the Conservative Party as a whole is seen as marginally more right-wing than the Labour Party as a whole is seen as left-wing.
Sure. But you know what happens in a GE campaign - the leader is everything and amounts to about 90% of the campaign which the public sees.
I agree, but I don't expect Corbyn to be leader in a GE campaign. What this poll does indicate is that the public (rightly) distinguishes between Corbyn and the Labour Party "brand" as a whole, which should stand them in good stead with another Lab leader against potentially the Bond villain at the next election.
I'm not sure how long that will last once the Labour shad cab are all singing from the same hymnsheet.
People are already seeing that Labour on TV/radio = Diane Abbott. That is enough to tarnish any brand.
And Ken Livingstone
What you saying, that is the Labour Dream Team...
Add in Emily Thornberry, that working class vote-getter
I was too young to see the bad old days of Labour in the eighties - I'm pleased that they've putting on repeats for a new generation.
However, the Conservative Party as a whole is seen as marginally more right-wing than the Labour Party as a whole is seen as left-wing.
Sure. But you know what happens in a GE campaign - the leader is everything and amounts to about 90% of the campaign which the public sees.
I agree, but I don't expect Corbyn to be leader in a GE campaign. What this poll does indicate is that the public (rightly) distinguishes between Corbyn and the Labour Party "brand" as a whole, which should stand them in good stead with another Lab leader against potentially the Bond villain at the next election.
I'm not sure how long that will last once the Labour shad cab are all singing from the same hymnsheet.
People are already seeing that Labour on TV/radio = Diane Abbott. That is enough to tarnish any brand.
And Ken Livingstone
What you saying, that is the Labour Dream Team...
Add in Emily Thornberry, that working class vote-getter
I was too young to see the bad old days of Labour in the eighties - I'm pleased that they've putting on repeats for a new generation.
I wasn't but the way labour are going it could be worse, much worse
However, the Conservative Party as a whole is seen as marginally more right-wing than the Labour Party as a whole is seen as left-wing.
Sure. But you know what happens in a GE campaign - the leader is everything and amounts to about 90% of the campaign which the public sees.
I agree, but I don't expect Corbyn to be leader in a GE campaign. What this poll does indicate is that the public (rightly) distinguishes between Corbyn and the Labour Party "brand" as a whole, which should stand them in good stead with another Lab leader against potentially the Bond villain at the next election.
I'm not sure how long that will last once the Labour shad cab are all singing from the same hymnsheet.
People are already seeing that Labour on TV/radio = Diane Abbott. That is enough to tarnish any brand.
And Ken Livingstone
What you saying, that is the Labour Dream Team...
Add in Emily Thornberry, that working class vote-getter
I was too young to see the bad old days of Labour in the eighties - I'm pleased that they've putting on repeats for a new generation.
I wasn't but the way labour are going it could be worse, much worse
This is actually worse.
Mind you, it was quite entertaining to watch (as a kid) the Labour party conference in the run up to '83. With one delegate demanding that the UK leave the EU, NATO and join the Warsaw Pact....
However, the Conservative Party as a whole is seen as marginally more right-wing than the Labour Party as a whole is seen as left-wing.
Sure. But you know what happens in a GE campaign - the leader is everything and amounts to about 90% of the campaign which the public sees.
I agree, but I don't expect Corbyn to be leader in a GE campaign. What this poll does indicate is that the public (rightly) distinguishes between Corbyn and the Labour Party "brand" as a whole, which should stand them in good stead with another Lab leader against potentially the Bond villain at the next election.
I'm not sure how long that will last once the Labour shad cab are all singing from the same hymnsheet.
People are already seeing that Labour on TV/radio = Diane Abbott. That is enough to tarnish any brand.
And Ken Livingstone
What you saying, that is the Labour Dream Team...
Add in Emily Thornberry, that working class vote-getter
I was too young to see the bad old days of Labour in the eighties - I'm pleased that they've putting on repeats for a new generation.
I wasn't but the way labour are going it could be worse, much worse
It already is.
Foot, for all his faults, was an experienced politician with intellectual integrity. He was a respected author and journalist with experience of ministerial office.
Corbyn offers none of that.
Yes, there was the growth of Militant - but it wasn't at the behest of the leader. Momentum, on the other hand, is Corbyn's through and through.
It is already much worse for Labour. And we are only at the beginning.
However, the Conservative Party as a whole is seen as marginally more right-wing than the Labour Party as a whole is seen as left-wing.
Sure. But you know what happens in a GE campaign - the leader is everything and amounts to about 90% of the campaign which the public sees.
I agree, but I don't expect Corbyn to be leader in a GE campaign. What this poll does indicate is that the public (rightly) distinguishes between Corbyn and the Labour Party "brand" as a whole, which should stand them in good stead with another Lab leader against potentially the Bond villain at the next election.
I'm not sure how long that will last once the Labour shad cab are all singing from the same hymnsheet.
People are already seeing that Labour on TV/radio = Diane Abbott. That is enough to tarnish any brand.
And Ken Livingstone
What you saying, that is the Labour Dream Team...
Add in Emily Thornberry, that working class vote-getter
I was too young to see the bad old days of Labour in the eighties - I'm pleased that they've putting on repeats for a new generation.
I wasn't but the way labour are going it could be worse, much worse
This is actually worse.
Mind you, it was quite entertaining to watch (as a kid) the Labour party conference in the run up to '83. With one delegate demanding that the UK leave the EU, NATO and join the Warsaw Pact....
However, the Conservative Party as a whole is seen as marginally more right-wing than the Labour Party as a whole is seen as left-wing.
Sure. But you know what happens in a GE campaign - the leader is everything and amounts to about 90% of the campaign which the public sees.
I agree, but I don't expect Corbyn to be leader in a GE campaign. What this poll does indicate is that the public (rightly) distinguishes between Corbyn and the Labour Party "brand" as a whole, which should stand them in good stead with another Lab leader against potentially the Bond villain at the next election.
I'm not sure how long that will last once the Labour shad cab are all singing from the same hymnsheet.
People are already seeing that Labour on TV/radio = Diane Abbott. That is enough to tarnish any brand.
And Ken Livingstone
What you saying, that is the Labour Dream Team...
Add in Emily Thornberry, that working class vote-getter
I was too young to see the bad old days of Labour in the eighties - I'm pleased that they've putting on repeats for a new generation.
I wasn't but the way labour are going it could be worse, much worse
It already is.
Foot, for all his faults, was an experienced politician with intellectual integrity. He was a respected author and journalist with experience of ministerial office.
Corbyn offers none of that.
Yes, there was the growth of Militant - but it wasn't at the behest of the leader. Momentum, on the other hand, is Corbyn's through and through.
It is already much worse for Labour. And we are only at the beginning.
Indeed. Foot also had a fantastic collection of antiquarian books. Which makes him a top bloke, obviously.
Police confirm that sex text MP Simon Danczuk is being investigated for rape as he is heckled outside his own office by ex-wife Karen's brother - who is also facing rape charges .
Michael Burke, 38, was photographed heckling embattled MP in Rochdale . The Security guard is the brother of Mr Danczuk's selfie-loving ex-wife Karen. His first wife Sonia Rossington today said she would report him to police
I have been really interested in politics for twenty five years, I've never known anything like this or pretty much what has gone on since May 7th last year.
There is a whole cast of odd balls, straight out of a Tom Sharpe or Martin Amis plot, but neither of them could have devised a 17 year old web dominatrix supposedly selling clippings from toenails to discerning gentlemen collectors.
However, the Conservative Party as a whole is seen as marginally more right-wing than the Labour Party as a whole is seen as left-wing.
Sure. But you know what happens in a GE campaign - the leader is everything and amounts to about 90% of the campaign which the public sees.
I agree, but I don't expect Corbyn to be leader in a GE campaign. What this poll does indicate is that the public (rightly) distinguishes between Corbyn and the Labour Party "brand" as a whole, which should stand them in good stead with another Lab leader against potentially the Bond villain at the next election.
I'm not sure how long that will last once the Labour shad cab are all singing from the same hymnsheet.
People are already seeing that Labour on TV/radio = Diane Abbott. That is enough to tarnish any brand.
And Ken Livingstone
What you saying, that is the Labour Dream Team...
Add in Emily Thornberry, that working class vote-getter
I was too young to see the bad old days of Labour in the eighties - I'm pleased that they've putting on repeats for a new generation.
I wasn't but the way labour are going it could be worse, much worse
This is actually worse.
Mind you, it was quite entertaining to watch (as a kid) the Labour party conference in the run up to '83. With one delegate demanding that the UK leave the EU, NATO and join the Warsaw Pact....
Really? Who was that?
I can't remember - I have a dim memory of a woman, in a white top.....
Police confirm that sex text MP Simon Danczuk is being investigated for rape as he is heckled outside his own office by ex-wife Karen's brother - who is also facing rape charges .
Michael Burke, 38, was photographed heckling embattled MP in Rochdale . The Security guard is the brother of Mr Danczuk's selfie-loving ex-wife Karen. His first wife Sonia Rossington today said she would report him to police
I have been really interested in politics for twenty five years, I've never known anything like this or pretty much what has gone on since May 7th last year.
There is a whole cast of odd balls, straight out of a Tom Sharpe or Martin Amis plot, but neither of them could have devised a 17 year old web dominatrix supposedly selling clippings from toenails to discerning gentlemen collectors.
No, Tom Sharpe could have done that, I think.
For some reason, Konstable Ells would have been involved.
Police confirm that sex text MP Simon Danczuk is being investigated for rape as he is heckled outside his own office by ex-wife Karen's brother - who is also facing rape charges .
Michael Burke, 38, was photographed heckling embattled MP in Rochdale . The Security guard is the brother of Mr Danczuk's selfie-loving ex-wife Karen. His first wife Sonia Rossington today said she would report him to police
I have been really interested in politics for twenty five years, I've never known anything like this or pretty much what has gone on since May 7th last year.
There is a whole cast of odd balls, straight out of a Tom Sharpe or Martin Amis plot, but neither of them could have devised a 17 year old web dominatrix supposedly selling clippings from toenails to discerning gentlemen collectors.
Nothing will ever top the evening of Sunday the 20th of September 2015.
At around 11pm I left the bar, got back to the apartment, switched on the macbook, read PB and twitter, and it dawned me on that I would have to write a PB thread that talked about the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland sticking his todger in a dead pig's mouth.
Foot, for all his faults, was an experienced politician with intellectual integrity. He was a respected author and journalist with experience of ministerial office.
Corbyn offers none of that.
Yes, there was the growth of Militant - but it wasn't at the behest of the leader. Momentum, on the other hand, is Corbyn's through and through.
It is already much worse for Labour. And we are only at the beginning.
Yes, Foot was a serious politician and public intellectual. He wasn't a good leader (Labour was probably unleadable at the time) but he tried to hold the line against the Bennites. Corbyn is no Michael Foot.
@MrHarryCole: All those days plotting in Malta and 9 hours later we still don't know who the Shad Foreign + Defence Secs are. Something didn't go to plan?
Foot, for all his faults, was an experienced politician with intellectual integrity. He was a respected author and journalist with experience of ministerial office.
Corbyn offers none of that.
Yes, there was the growth of Militant - but it wasn't at the behest of the leader. Momentum, on the other hand, is Corbyn's through and through.
It is already much worse for Labour. And we are only at the beginning.
Yes, Foot was a serious politician and public intellectual. He wasn't a good leader (Labour was probably unleadable at the time) but he tried to hold the line against the Bennites. Corbyn is no Michael Foot.
Labour are lucky though in that there is no centrist alternative on the centre left in the form of the SDP as Foot faced with the LDs in even more dire straits
@MrHarryCole: Bubble rumour mill in overdrive but lots of chatter Benn might have survived but Maria less lucky. But nothing firm yet - just eery silence
Foot, for all his faults, was an experienced politician with intellectual integrity. He was a respected author and journalist with experience of ministerial office.
Corbyn offers none of that.
Yes, there was the growth of Militant - but it wasn't at the behest of the leader. Momentum, on the other hand, is Corbyn's through and through.
It is already much worse for Labour. And we are only at the beginning.
Yes, Foot was a serious politician and public intellectual. He wasn't a good leader (Labour was probably unleadable at the time) but he tried to hold the line against the Bennites. Corbyn is no Michael Foot.
Labour are lucky though in that there is no centrist alternative on the centre left in the form of the SDP as Foot faced with the LDs in even more dire straits
@MrHarryCole: Bubble rumour mill in overdrive but lots of chatter Benn might have survived but Maria less lucky. But nothing firm yet - just eery silence
Keeping Benn would be a concrete sign that Corbyn lacks the guts to do what he wants. It makes him look even weaker than he was yesterday.
@MrHarryCole: Bubble rumour mill in overdrive but lots of chatter Benn might have survived but Maria less lucky. But nothing firm yet - just eery silence
Keeping Benn would be a concrete sign that Corbyn lacks the guts to do what he wants. It makes him look even weaker than he was yesterday.
Which would be quite some achievement.
What has Maria done to deserve the sack? Does she support Trident?
However, the Conservative Party as a whole is seen as marginally more right-wing than the Labour Party as a whole is seen as left-wing.
Sure. But you know what happens in a GE campaign - the leader is everything and amounts to about 90% of the campaign which the public sees.
I agree, but I don't expect Corbyn to be leader in a GE campaign. What this poll does indicate is that the public (rightly) distinguishes between Corbyn and the Labour Party "brand" as a whole, which should stand them in good stead with another Lab leader against potentially the Bond villain at the next election.
I'm not sure how long that will last once the Labour shad cab are all singing from the same hymnsheet.
People are already seeing that Labour on TV/radio = Diane Abbott. That is enough to tarnish any brand.
And Ken Livingstone
What you saying, that is the Labour Dream Team...
Add in Emily Thornberry, that working class vote-getter
I was too young to see the bad old days of Labour in the eighties - I'm pleased that they've putting on repeats for a new generation.
I wasn't but the way labour are going it could be worse, much worse
It already is.
Foot, for all his faults, was an experienced politician with intellectual integrity. He was a respected author and journalist with experience of ministerial office.
Corbyn offers none of that.
Yes, there was the growth of Militant - but it wasn't at the behest of the leader. Momentum, on the other hand, is Corbyn's through and through.
It is already much worse for Labour. And we are only at the beginning.
Indeed. Foot also had a fantastic collection of antiquarian books. Which makes him a top bloke, obviously.
He gave me a couple of annotated books on HG Wells, of all things! Some very thought provoking comments.
@MrHarryCole: Bubble rumour mill in overdrive but lots of chatter Benn might have survived but Maria less lucky. But nothing firm yet - just eery silence
Keeping Benn would be a concrete sign that Corbyn lacks the guts to do what he wants. It makes him look even weaker than he was yesterday.
Which would be quite some achievement.
What has Maria done to deserve the sack? Does she support Trident?
@MrHarryCole: Bubble rumour mill in overdrive but lots of chatter Benn might have survived but Maria less lucky. But nothing firm yet - just eery silence
Keeping Benn would be a concrete sign that Corbyn lacks the guts to do what he wants. It makes him look even weaker than he was yesterday.
Which would be quite some achievement.
What has Maria done to deserve the sack? Does she support Trident?
She was never his first choice for any Shadow role and had to be persuaded to take on the job. She is pro Trident and thus has to be removed so that Corbyn can have a yes-man in that role.
Plus she really isn't a talent. I wouldn't put her in a key role - just because she isn't a political heavyweight.
@MrHarryCole: Bubble rumour mill in overdrive but lots of chatter Benn might have survived but Maria less lucky. But nothing firm yet - just eery silence
Keeping Benn would be a concrete sign that Corbyn lacks the guts to do what he wants. It makes him look even weaker than he was yesterday.
Which would be quite some achievement.
What has Maria done to deserve the sack? Does she support Trident?
Trident and this pissed off Corbyn apparently when she did this
Jeremy Corbyn has accused Britain’s most senior armed forces chief of meddling in politics after saying he would be “worried” if he became PM.
Chief of Defence Staff Sir Nick Houghton told Andrew Marr this morning the Labour leader’s position on Trident weakened the UK’s nuclear deterrent.
Mr Corbyn has since issued a statement saying Sir Nick has “clearly breached” the constitutional principle that the military remains politically neutral.
But the Labour leader was undermined by his own Shadow Defence Minister, after Maria Eagle appeared to back up the Chief of Defence Staff.
Speaking after Mr Houghton onBBc1’s Marr Show, she said of his comments: “I understand the point that he is making. It’s a point that I made myself when Jeremy said what he said.”
@MrHarryCole: Bubble rumour mill in overdrive but lots of chatter Benn might have survived but Maria less lucky. But nothing firm yet - just eery silence
Keeping Benn would be a concrete sign that Corbyn lacks the guts to do what he wants. It makes him look even weaker than he was yesterday.
Which would be quite some achievement.
What has Maria done to deserve the sack? Does she support Trident?
Helped Jezza out by saying "yes" when he was desperately casting around for a shadow defence secretary.
That's the killer, isn't it? Corbyn is seen as extreme. Even people who don't like, understand know or get politics in any way tend to dislike extremist politicians (except, perhaps, in dire emergences).
As things stand I'm sticking by my absurdly pointless prediction of Labour 26-28% at GE 2020, if Corbyn is still leader.
Is that supposing he's up against anyone in particular, or no matter who he is up against?
@MrHarryCole: Bubble rumour mill in overdrive but lots of chatter Benn might have survived but Maria less lucky. But nothing firm yet - just eery silence
Keeping Benn would be a concrete sign that Corbyn lacks the guts to do what he wants. It makes him look even weaker than he was yesterday.
Which would be quite some achievement.
What has Maria done to deserve the sack? Does she support Trident?
Trident and this pissed off Corbyn apparently when she did this
Jeremy Corbyn has accused Britain’s most senior armed forces chief of meddling in politics after saying he would be “worried” if he became PM.
Chief of Defence Staff Sir Nick Houghton told Andrew Marr this morning the Labour leader’s position on Trident weakened the UK’s nuclear deterrent.
Mr Corbyn has since issued a statement saying Sir Nick has “clearly breached” the constitutional principle that the military remains politically neutral.
But the Labour leader was undermined by his own Shadow Defence Minister, after Maria Eagle appeared to back up the Chief of Defence Staff.
Speaking after Mr Houghton onBBc1’s Marr Show, she said of his comments: “I understand the point that he is making. It’s a point that I made myself when Jeremy said what he said.”
Fair enough actually. Her supporting Trident is one thing, but neutering criticism of what was, I think, an unreasonable comment from the Chief of the Defence Staff, is quite another. The former is a policy disagreement, a fight he hopes to win in time, the latter a personal choice to undermine him.
That's the killer, isn't it? Corbyn is seen as extreme. Even people who don't like, understand know or get politics in any way tend to dislike extremist politicians (except, perhaps, in dire emergences).
As things stand I'm sticking by my absurdly pointless prediction of Labour 26-28% at GE 2020, if Corbyn is still leader.
Well Labour is on 29% in the latest yougov, so only 1% off!
@MrHarryCole: Bubble rumour mill in overdrive but lots of chatter Benn might have survived but Maria less lucky. But nothing firm yet - just eery silence
Keeping Benn would be a concrete sign that Corbyn lacks the guts to do what he wants. It makes him look even weaker than he was yesterday.
Which would be quite some achievement.
What has Maria done to deserve the sack? Does she support Trident?
She was never his first choice for any Shadow role and had to be persuaded to take on the job. She is pro Trident and thus has to be removed so that Corbyn can have a yes-man in that role.
Plus she really isn't a talent. I wouldn't put her in a key role - just because she isn't a political heavyweight.
What political heavyweights are there in the shadow cabinet? Any?
@MrHarryCole: Bubble rumour mill in overdrive but lots of chatter Benn might have survived but Maria less lucky. But nothing firm yet - just eery silence
Keeping Benn would be a concrete sign that Corbyn lacks the guts to do what he wants. It makes him look even weaker than he was yesterday.
Which would be quite some achievement.
What has Maria done to deserve the sack? Does she support Trident?
Trident and this pissed off Corbyn apparently when she did this
Jeremy Corbyn has accused Britain’s most senior armed forces chief of meddling in politics after saying he would be “worried” if he became PM.
Chief of Defence Staff Sir Nick Houghton told Andrew Marr this morning the Labour leader’s position on Trident weakened the UK’s nuclear deterrent.
Mr Corbyn has since issued a statement saying Sir Nick has “clearly breached” the constitutional principle that the military remains politically neutral.
But the Labour leader was undermined by his own Shadow Defence Minister, after Maria Eagle appeared to back up the Chief of Defence Staff.
Speaking after Mr Houghton onBBc1’s Marr Show, she said of his comments: “I understand the point that he is making. It’s a point that I made myself when Jeremy said what he said.”
Police confirm that sex text MP Simon Danczuk is being investigated for rape as he is heckled outside his own office by ex-wife Karen's brother - who is also facing rape charges .
Michael Burke, 38, was photographed heckling embattled MP in Rochdale . The Security guard is the brother of Mr Danczuk's selfie-loving ex-wife Karen. His first wife Sonia Rossington today said she would report him to police
I have been really interested in politics for twenty five years, I've never known anything like this or pretty much what has gone on since May 7th last year.
There is a whole cast of odd balls, straight out of a Tom Sharpe or Martin Amis plot, but neither of them could have devised a 17 year old web dominatrix supposedly selling clippings from toenails to discerning gentlemen collectors.
No, Tom Sharpe could have done that, I think.
For some reason, Konstable Ells would have been involved.
I suppose that the Konstable would have known where to source clothes for a wanabee actress & vampire. Though I had wondered about a revised plot for Ancestral Vices, she could double up as a PORG, given that she claimed to be 4ft 12 inches tall.
Jeremy Corbyn isn't a disaster because he's extreme, though that certainly doesn't help. He's a disaster because he's inept. That's where Labour is really getting hurt.
Imagine he left office tomorrow. A new leader could rapidly persuade the public that the excursion into Eastern European socialist revivalism was an aberration. But the party would take years, perhaps decades, to shrug off the impression that it was a shambles.
@MrHarryCole: Bubble rumour mill in overdrive but lots of chatter Benn might have survived but Maria less lucky. But nothing firm yet - just eery silence
Keeping Benn would be a concrete sign that Corbyn lacks the guts to do what he wants. It makes him look even weaker than he was yesterday.
Which would be quite some achievement.
What has Maria done to deserve the sack? Does she support Trident?
Trident and this pissed off Corbyn apparently when she did this
Jeremy Corbyn has accused Britain’s most senior armed forces chief of meddling in politics after saying he would be “worried” if he became PM.
Chief of Defence Staff Sir Nick Houghton told Andrew Marr this morning the Labour leader’s position on Trident weakened the UK’s nuclear deterrent.
Mr Corbyn has since issued a statement saying Sir Nick has “clearly breached” the constitutional principle that the military remains politically neutral.
But the Labour leader was undermined by his own Shadow Defence Minister, after Maria Eagle appeared to back up the Chief of Defence Staff.
Speaking after Mr Houghton onBBc1’s Marr Show, she said of his comments: “I understand the point that he is making. It’s a point that I made myself when Jeremy said what he said.”
Fair enough actually. Her supporting Trident is one thing, but neutering criticism of what was, I think, an unreasonable comment from the Chief of the Defence Staff, is quite another. The former is a policy disagreement, a fight he hopes to win in time, the latter a personal choice to undermine him.
Hmm. She said that she'd made the same point herself - which she had because she agreed with it. Should she have been less open in the interview?
@MrHarryCole: Bubble rumour mill in overdrive but lots of chatter Benn might have survived but Maria less lucky. But nothing firm yet - just eery silence
Keeping Benn would be a concrete sign that Corbyn lacks the guts to do what he wants. It makes him look even weaker than he was yesterday.
Which would be quite some achievement.
What has Maria done to deserve the sack? Does she support Trident?
Trident and this pissed off Corbyn apparently when she did this
Jeremy Corbyn has accused Britain’s most senior armed forces chief of meddling in politics after saying he would be “worried” if he became PM.
Chief of Defence Staff Sir Nick Houghton told Andrew Marr this morning the Labour leader’s position on Trident weakened the UK’s nuclear deterrent.
Mr Corbyn has since issued a statement saying Sir Nick has “clearly breached” the constitutional principle that the military remains politically neutral.
But the Labour leader was undermined by his own Shadow Defence Minister, after Maria Eagle appeared to back up the Chief of Defence Staff.
Speaking after Mr Houghton onBBc1’s Marr Show, she said of his comments: “I understand the point that he is making. It’s a point that I made myself when Jeremy said what he said.”
Fair enough actually. Her supporting Trident is one thing, but neutering criticism of what was, I think, an unreasonable comment from the Chief of the Defence Staff, is quite another. The former is a policy disagreement, a fight he hopes to win in time, the latter a personal choice to undermine him.
I agree, I said at the time the CDS was out of line.
It's a ridiculous prediction, of course, it's far too soon and the universe might explode before we get there, but, nonetheless, it's kind of a median prediction.
If he is facing Cameron (and I do wonder if Cameron might decide to stay on), I reckon Corbyn could maybe do worse - 25%?
If facing Osborne, a bit better, say 28-29%?
Either way I am finding it hard to see a situation where Corbyn can possibly *win*. Even if there is a nuclear war, or a plague, the biggest black swan in human history, then the voters will cling on to the Tories as being vaguely competent.
In fact this might make a good threader for TSE. Is there any situation where PB-ers honestly think Corbyn's Labour could win an overall majority, and if so, what is it?
It would need a Class A black swan imo. Things like another global downturn are nowhere near severe enough. A lethal pandemic (which he survives) is a possibility. Nuclear war maybe. Then again, he's not the man for a crisis so...
Possibly in the aftermath of the Second Coming? If there are still going to be elections?
That's the killer, isn't it? Corbyn is seen as extreme. Even people who don't like, understand know or get politics in any way tend to dislike extremist politicians (except, perhaps, in dire emergences).
As things stand I'm sticking by my absurdly pointless prediction of Labour 26-28% at GE 2020, if Corbyn is still leader.
Is that supposing he's up against anyone in particular, or no matter who he is up against?
It's a ridiculous prediction, of course, it's far too soon and the universe might explode before we get there, but, nonetheless, it's kind of a median prediction.
If he is facing Cameron (and I do wonder if Cameron might decide to stay on), I reckon Corbyn could maybe do worse - 25%?
If facing Osborne, a bit better, say 28-29%?
Either way I am finding it hard to see a situation where Corbyn can possibly *win*. Even if there is a nuclear war, or a plague, the biggest black swan in human history, then the voters will cling on to the Tories as being vaguely competent.
In fact this might make a good threader for TSE. Is there any situation where PB-ers honestly think Corbyn's Labour could win an overall majority, and if so, what is it?
I did write a piece last year about Corbyn's path to No 10.
That said I was told shortly after publication that it would be like 1992 on steroids, with the country sticking to the Tories rather risking a Labour government with a crap leader (by a Labour campaigner)
@MrHarryCole: Bubble rumour mill in overdrive but lots of chatter Benn might have survived but Maria less lucky. But nothing firm yet - just eery silence
Keeping Benn would be a concrete sign that Corbyn lacks the guts to do what he wants. It makes him look even weaker than he was yesterday.
Which would be quite some achievement.
What has Maria done to deserve the sack? Does she support Trident?
Trident and this pissed off Corbyn apparently when she did this
Jeremy Corbyn has accused Britain’s most senior armed forces chief of meddling in politics after saying he would be “worried” if he became PM.
Chief of Defence Staff Sir Nick Houghton told Andrew Marr this morning the Labour leader’s position on Trident weakened the UK’s nuclear deterrent.
Mr Corbyn has since issued a statement saying Sir Nick has “clearly breached” the constitutional principle that the military remains politically neutral.
But the Labour leader was undermined by his own Shadow Defence Minister, after Maria Eagle appeared to back up the Chief of Defence Staff.
Speaking after Mr Houghton onBBc1’s Marr Show, she said of his comments: “I understand the point that he is making. It’s a point that I made myself when Jeremy said what he said.”
Fair enough actually. Her supporting Trident is one thing, but neutering criticism of what was, I think, an unreasonable comment from the Chief of the Defence Staff, is quite another. The former is a policy disagreement, a fight he hopes to win in time, the latter a personal choice to undermine him.
Hmm. She said that she'd made the same point herself - which she had because she agreed with it. Should she have been less open in the interview?
Yes, it was unnecessary. Plenty of people were making the argument about Corbyn's views being stupid or dangerous, but it wasn't for the Chief of Defence Staff to make that point, which he implicitly did. That she held the same view was not the problem (or at least not the acute problem), the problem was she essentially backed the right of a military official to make politically sensitive statements against a particular figure. She could easily have implied she agreed with the point without defending the General's airing of that point.
IF JJ can't even reshuffle his pack without farce, imagine what a JJ government would be like....I think it would certainly consign piss up in a brewery to the history books.
Think we need a name, we had omnishambles, but this is far far worse...
It would need a Class A black swan imo. Things like another global downturn are nowhere near severe enough. A lethal pandemic (which he survives) is a possibility. Nuclear war maybe. Then again, he's not the man for a crisis so...
Yeah a mere catastrophe wouldn't be enough, as 99 times out of a 100 people would stick with the Tories over Corbyn. It would have to be something that pushed the public leftwards, something like the plot of Frederick Forsyth's novel The Fourth Protocol.
Jeremy Corbyn isn't a disaster because he's extreme, though that certainly doesn't help. He's a disaster because he's inept. That's where Labour is really getting hurt.
Imagine he left office tomorrow. A new leader could rapidly persuade the public that the excursion into Eastern European socialist revivalism was an aberration. But the party would take years, perhaps decades, to shrug off the impression that it was a shambles.
With respect, I entirely disagree. Corbyn is seen as extreme on the most venomous (for Labour) subject of all: security. From his weird remarks about Bin Laden to his love for Hamas to his vacillation over slotting Jihadi John or any Islami-nutter on our streets, all the way to his hugging of the IRA, his desire to disband the British army, and his wish to hand the Falklands, and maybe Trident, Gibraltar and Surrey, to Argentina, he is catastrophically contaminating the Labour brand with the notion that deep down they are idiot lefty wankers who can't keep us safe.
It took Labour two decades to slough off this fatal perception, when previously held, from 1979 on.
There's a thread header in that disagreement.
Much would depend on how Jeremy Corbyn left his post.
That's the killer, isn't it? Corbyn is seen as extreme. Even people who don't like, understand know or get politics in any way tend to dislike extremist politicians (except, perhaps, in dire emergences).
As things stand I'm sticking by my absurdly pointless prediction of Labour 26-28% at GE 2020, if Corbyn is still leader.
Is that supposing he's up against anyone in particular, or no matter who he is up against?
It's a ridiculous prediction, of course, it's far too soon and the universe might explode before we get there, but, nonetheless, it's kind of a median prediction.
If he is facing Cameron (and I do wonder if Cameron might decide to stay on), I reckon Corbyn could maybe do worse - 25%?
If facing Osborne, a bit better, say 28-29%?
Either way I am finding it hard to see a situation where Corbyn can possibly *win*. Even if there is a nuclear war, or a plague, the biggest black swan in human history, then the voters will cling on to the Tories as being vaguely competent.
In fact this might make a good threader for TSE. Is there any situation where PB-ers honestly think Corbyn's Labour could win an overall majority, and if so, what is it?
Even if Cameron is replaced by Bill Cash I would still just about tip the Tories in a Cash v Corbyn battle
Comments
If he is, then he's in much worse trouble than even I thought.
It is like Josh Lyman not knowing how to get to the Capitol building from the OEOB.
But that was then, and this is now.
Any future changes to the roles of the legal officers will come with a large red flag attached thanks to his stupidity on that occasion.
1) Michael Dugher is a complacent fool
2) Eoin Clarke is an arrogant and ill-informed idiot.
On the other hand, it's hard to see either of those as news.
And on that bombshell, I'm off to bed. Goodnight all.
People are already seeing that Labour on TV/radio = Diane Abbott. That is enough to tarnish any brand.
That is the real danger to Labour.
"Jeremy Corbyn accused of 'petty, divisive and farcical' revenge reshuffle as Hilary Benn clings on to job - for now"
Will Nick Palmer be promoted to the Lords as Minister for "Doublethink"?
Police confirm that sex text MP Simon Danczuk is being investigated for rape as he is heckled outside his own office by ex-wife Karen's brother - who is also facing rape charges .
Michael Burke, 38, was photographed heckling embattled MP in Rochdale . The Security guard is the brother of Mr Danczuk's selfie-loving ex-wife Karen. His first wife Sonia Rossington today said she would report him to police
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3383330/First-wife-Simon-Danczuk-worked-escort-advertised-services-sex-website-Latest-revelations-come-shamed-MP-spotted-church-second-ex-Karen.html#ixzz3wJQRutwR
Mind you, it was quite entertaining to watch (as a kid) the Labour party conference in the run up to '83. With one delegate demanding that the UK leave the EU, NATO and join the Warsaw Pact....
Foot, for all his faults, was an experienced politician with intellectual integrity. He was a respected author and journalist with experience of ministerial office.
Corbyn offers none of that.
Yes, there was the growth of Militant - but it wasn't at the behest of the leader. Momentum, on the other hand, is Corbyn's through and through.
It is already much worse for Labour. And we are only at the beginning.
For some reason, Konstable Ells would have been involved.
At around 11pm I left the bar, got back to the apartment, switched on the macbook, read PB and twitter, and it dawned me on that I would have to write a PB thread that talked about the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland sticking his todger in a dead pig's mouth.
@PeterMannionMP: @janemerrick23 @TheRoyalOpera It's not over until Diane Abbott sings? #reshuffle
Damn.. make that another two more weeks until the AV thread...
damn.....
The thing is, once it is published, I won't have anything to threaten PBers with when they annoy me.
The AV thread is like Trident, a great deterrent.
Which would be quite some achievement.
Plus she really isn't a talent. I wouldn't put her in a key role - just because she isn't a political heavyweight.
Jeremy Corbyn has accused Britain’s most senior armed forces chief of meddling in politics after saying he would be “worried” if he became PM.
Chief of Defence Staff Sir Nick Houghton told Andrew Marr this morning the Labour leader’s position on Trident weakened the UK’s nuclear deterrent.
Mr Corbyn has since issued a statement saying Sir Nick has “clearly breached” the constitutional principle that the military remains politically neutral.
But the Labour leader was undermined by his own Shadow Defence Minister, after Maria Eagle appeared to back up the Chief of Defence Staff.
Speaking after Mr Houghton onBBc1’s Marr Show, she said of his comments: “I understand the point that he is making. It’s a point that I made myself when Jeremy said what he said.”
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/corbyn-furious-with-chief-of-defence-who-says-he-would-be-worried-if-jez-became-prime-minister/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12081373/Jeremy-Corbyn-reshuffle-dan-hodges.html
As Clem would have said: not up to it.
Imagine he left office tomorrow. A new leader could rapidly persuade the public that the excursion into Eastern European socialist revivalism was an aberration. But the party would take years, perhaps decades, to shrug off the impression that it was a shambles.
They will have to lump it, they voted to be ruled by the English in that once in a generation referendum.
Possibly in the aftermath of the Second Coming? If there are still going to be elections?
A recession and no Dave helps Labour.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/08/23/corbyns-path-to-number-10/
That said I was told shortly after publication that it would be like 1992 on steroids, with the country sticking to the Tories rather risking a Labour government with a crap leader (by a Labour campaigner)
Think we need a name, we had omnishambles, but this is far far worse...
Much would depend on how Jeremy Corbyn left his post.