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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The 2016 elections do not bode well for Labour

SystemSystem Posts: 11,687
edited December 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The 2016 elections do not bode well for Labour

The best way to measure what is happening, however, is to look at the changes in those places where a post-Corbyn by-election reprises a contest previously held on general election day earlier this year.

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    First ..... again!
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    That is one terrific photograph of Corbyn. The likes of Logitech should consider featuring it on a mug ...... it would do wonders for their keyboard sales.
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    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Tottenham to finish top 4, 4/5 in a few places, 80% return in less than 5 months. A young, fit, competitive side that can only improve.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    Morning all, hope everyone had a good couple of days and the hangovers this morning aren't too bad!

    The Tories to finish second bet in Scotland could be a good one, if Labour are not campaigning hard due to a lack of donations. Will £200k do much more than cover deposits and a few leaflets for them?

    Also, the England council seats up for election next May are those that were last elected in 2012, at peak Miliband following a poor Budget by the then unpopular coalition. It's almost inevitable that Labour will go backwards from that position, especially if Corbyn seems determined to reshuffle out the few remaining moderate voices in the shad cab.

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    edited December 2015

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Tottenham to finish top 4, 4/5 in a few places, 80% return in less than 5 months. A young, fit, competitive side that can only improve.
    But Spurs have been nailed on certs to finish in the top 4 for the past half a dozen years, and they've bottled it every single time - why would this year be any different?

    Leicester will fall from their perch eventually, they have a horrible run of away games to come. Ditto Palace and Watford who won't stay there forever either. Arsenal and MC will qualify, with probably MU in third. The last CL place is then between everyone else, one of Liverpool, Everton or Spurs,so that 4/5 looks very skinny to me. Chelski are too far back even if they win every remaining match.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003
    Sandpit said:

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Tottenham to finish top 4, 4/5 in a few places, 80% return in less than 5 months. A young, fit, competitive side that can only improve.
    But Spurs have been nailed on certs to finish in the top 4 for the past half a dozen years, and they've bottled it every single time - why would this year be any different?

    Leicester will fall from their perch eventually, they have a horrible run of away games to come. Ditto Palace and Watford who won't stay there forever either. Arsenal and MC will qualify, with probably MU in third. The last CL place is then between everyone else, one of Liverpool, Everton or Spurs,so that 4/5 looks very skinny to me. Chelski are too far back even if they win every remaining match.
    Both Sunderland and Newcastle to go down?
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Sandpit said:

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Tottenham to finish top 4, 4/5 in a few places, 80% return in less than 5 months. A young, fit, competitive side that can only improve.
    But Spurs have been nailed on certs to finish in the top 4 for the past half a dozen years, and they've bottled it every single time - why would this year be any different?

    Leicester will fall from their perch eventually, they have a horrible run of away games to come. Ditto Palace and Watford who won't stay there forever either. Arsenal and MC will qualify, with probably MU in third. The last CL place is then between everyone else, one of Liverpool, Everton or Spurs,so that 4/5 looks very skinny to me. Chelski are too far back even if they win every remaining match.
    When you say "nailed on cents", who labelled them as that? They have finished top 4 twice incidentally.

    This is a different Spurs, managed by the best young coach in the League. An interesting stat, of the last 18 England debutants, 10 were coached by Poch. The improvement he gets out of players is phenomenal, look at Dembele.

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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Btw I just read that Lynton Crosby is to be knighted. I've long considered honours to be outdated and unfettered cronyism, knighting a PR/spin doctor epitomises how shallow a society we've become and demonstrates how worthless our honours system is, it cheapens the whole tawdry process.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003

    Btw I just read that Lynton Crosby is to be knighted. I've long considered honours to be outdated and unfettered cronyism, knighting a PR/spin doctor epitomises how shallow a society we've become and demonstrates how worthless our honours system is, it cheapens the whole tawdry process.

    I think (hope) that's just newspaper talk.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    Sandpit said:

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Tottenham to finish top 4, 4/5 in a few places, 80% return in less than 5 months. A young, fit, competitive side that can only improve.
    But Spurs have been nailed on certs to finish in the top 4 for the past half a dozen years, and they've bottled it every single time - why would this year be any different?

    Leicester will fall from their perch eventually, they have a horrible run of away games to come. Ditto Palace and Watford who won't stay there forever either. Arsenal and MC will qualify, with probably MU in third. The last CL place is then between everyone else, one of Liverpool, Everton or Spurs,so that 4/5 looks very skinny to me. Chelski are too far back even if they win every remaining match.
    Both Sunderland and Newcastle to go down?
    I'd say Villa are definitely down, and Sunderland will have to do very well to escape. Like at the other end of the league there are then half a dozen teams within three points of the final relegation place, up as far as West Brom in 13th. I'd probably bet on Newcastle just about making it, with most likely Norwich going down - purely down to squad size and experience at dragging out results late in the season. Would be hilarious to see last year's champions still in the mix at the wrong end come May though!
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    Sandpit said:

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Tottenham to finish top 4, 4/5 in a few places, 80% return in less than 5 months. A young, fit, competitive side that can only improve.
    But Spurs have been nailed on certs to finish in the top 4 for the past half a dozen years, and they've bottled it every single time - why would this year be any different?

    Leicester will fall from their perch eventually, they have a horrible run of away games to come. Ditto Palace and Watford who won't stay there forever either. Arsenal and MC will qualify, with probably MU in third. The last CL place is then between everyone else, one of Liverpool, Everton or Spurs,so that 4/5 looks very skinny to me. Chelski are too far back even if they win every remaining match.
    When you say "nailed on cents", who labelled them as that? They have finished top 4 twice incidentally.

    This is a different Spurs, managed by the best young coach in the League. An interesting stat, of the last 18 England debutants, 10 were coached by Poch. The improvement he gets out of players is phenomenal, look at Dembele.
    Pundits and bookies always overestimate Spurs' chances of a top 4 finish. :) They might yet do it, but it really shouldn't be an odds-on bet in December. I'd price them at perhaps 3/2 to hold their 4th place until the end of the season.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Tottenham to finish top 4, 4/5 in a few places, 80% return in less than 5 months. A young, fit, competitive side that can only improve.
    But Spurs have been nailed on certs to finish in the top 4 for the past half a dozen years, and they've bottled it every single time - why would this year be any different?

    Leicester will fall from their perch eventually, they have a horrible run of away games to come. Ditto Palace and Watford who won't stay there forever either. Arsenal and MC will qualify, with probably MU in third. The last CL place is then between everyone else, one of Liverpool, Everton or Spurs,so that 4/5 looks very skinny to me. Chelski are too far back even if they win every remaining match.
    Both Sunderland and Newcastle to go down?
    I'd say Villa are definitely down, and Sunderland will have to do very well to escape. Like at the other end of the league there are then half a dozen teams within three points of the final relegation place, up as far as West Brom in 13th. I'd probably bet on Newcastle just about making it, with most likely Norwich going down - purely down to squad size and experience at dragging out results late in the season. Would be hilarious to see last year's champions still in the mix at the wrong end come May though!
    Think you're right about Villa. Think Chelsea will pull themselves together now Jose M has gone; suspect that the problem is that the dressing room decided they didn't love him any more.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    Btw I just read that Lynton Crosby is to be knighted. I've long considered honours to be outdated and unfettered cronyism, knighting a PR/spin doctor epitomises how shallow a society we've become and demonstrates how worthless our honours system is, it cheapens the whole tawdry process.

    Honours should be given only for exceptional achievement, not for simply doing the job he was (very well!) paid to do. Same with giving honours to time-servers in the civil service, what have most of them ever achieved?


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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Tottenham to finish top 4, 4/5 in a few places, 80% return in less than 5 months. A young, fit, competitive side that can only improve.
    But Spurs have been nailed on certs to finish in the top 4 for the past half a dozen years, and they've bottled it every single time - why would this year be any different?

    Leicester will fall from their perch eventually, they have a horrible run of away games to come. Ditto Palace and Watford who won't stay there forever either. Arsenal and MC will qualify, with probably MU in third. The last CL place is then between everyone else, one of Liverpool, Everton or Spurs,so that 4/5 looks very skinny to me. Chelski are too far back even if they win every remaining match.
    When you say "nailed on cents", who labelled them as that? They have finished top 4 twice incidentally.

    This is a different Spurs, managed by the best young coach in the League. An interesting stat, of the last 18 England debutants, 10 were coached by Poch. The improvement he gets out of players is phenomenal, look at Dembele.
    Pundits and bookies always overestimate Spurs' chances of a top 4 finish. :) They might yet do it, but it really shouldn't be an odds-on bet in December. I'd price them at perhaps 3/2 to hold their 4th place until the end of the season.
    I'm very happy to back Spurs at 6/4 top 4 with you, can I have £20 please?
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Sandpit said:

    Btw I just read that Lynton Crosby is to be knighted. I've long considered honours to be outdated and unfettered cronyism, knighting a PR/spin doctor epitomises how shallow a society we've become and demonstrates how worthless our honours system is, it cheapens the whole tawdry process.

    Honours should be given only for exceptional achievement, not for simply doing the job he was (very well!) paid to do. Same with giving honours to time-servers in the civil service, what have most of them ever achieved?


    A gold plated pension?

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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003
    On topic, I hesite to challenge two such erudite psephologist, but I'd be a bit surprised to see UKIP doing as well as 12%. As fr as the LD's are concerned, I wonder how many of their activists are likely to be enthused by the chance to hang one back on the Tories, and how many have just got fed up and gone in for basket weaving (or something) instead of politics.If the former I can see them doing very well in some places.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    On the thread header, I would be extremely surprised if the LibDems did that well. The 2012 local elections were the high-point of the last electoral cycle for them, and for them to do better now while polling 7-8% in opinion polls, than then when they were on 14% seems extremely unlikely.

    My money would be on the LibDems getting perhaps 12% this time around (which is down from their 2012 score, but represents a 1.5% improvement on the 2015 result), and UKIP on 13-14%.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    edited December 2015

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Tottenham to finish top 4, 4/5 in a few places, 80% return in less than 5 months. A young, fit, competitive side that can only improve.
    But Spurs have been nailed on certs to finish in the top 4 for the past half a dozen years, and they've bottled it every single time - why would this year be any different?

    Leicester will fall from their perch eventually, they have a horrible run of away games to come. Ditto Palace and Watford who won't stay there forever either. Arsenal and MC will qualify, with probably MU in third. The last CL place is then between everyone else, one of Liverpool, Everton or Spurs,so that 4/5 looks very skinny to me. Chelski are too far back even if they win every remaining match.
    When you say "nailed on cents", who labelled them as that? They have finished top 4 twice incidentally.

    This is a different Spurs, managed by the best young coach in the League. An interesting stat, of the last 18 England debutants, 10 were coached by Poch. The improvement he gets out of players is phenomenal, look at Dembele.
    Pundits and bookies always overestimate Spurs' chances of a top 4 finish. :) They might yet do it, but it really shouldn't be an odds-on bet in December. I'd price them at perhaps 3/2 to hold their 4th place until the end of the season.
    I'm very happy to back Spurs at 6/4 top 4 with you, can I have £20 please?
    Ha, I rather walked into that one didn't I? Okay, you're on, £20 at 6/4 for Spurs to finish in the top 4 of the Premier League 2015-16
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    Btw I just read that Lynton Crosby is to be knighted. I've long considered honours to be outdated and unfettered cronyism, knighting a PR/spin doctor epitomises how shallow a society we've become and demonstrates how worthless our honours system is, it cheapens the whole tawdry process.

    How would a knighthood play in Australia? I'll believe this when I see it in Friday's papers.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    Just on the locals in 2016: it's worth remembering - not that anyone's forgotten - that it's London's turn. It will be fascinating to see how the LibDems do in South West London.
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    OP: Diane Abbott is the favourite to be the new shadow Foreign Secretary.

    Is she really; is she really? Or has an Indy journo been at the brandy butter?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Fun to go back and re-read Rod's thread from May 2014. The Lefties refusing to acknowledge that Labour could be sunk under the titan that was Ed Miliband is a hoot. Like this from the short-lived poster "wumper":

    "This is the silliest column i have read in many a long year, i trust you will come on here and apologise when you have been proved wrong as you are going to be. WOEFUL"

    So far, wumper has not been spotted here bearing his own apology...
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    Oh I do like a bit of Ben Stokes in the morning.

    Scottish Labour remain in disarray so, as I have been saying on here for some months now, I think the bet on Labour coming third in Scotland has value. It really shouldn't happen but the serious lack of money is just the latest straw in the wind.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Tottenham to finish top 4, 4/5 in a few places, 80% return in less than 5 months. A young, fit, competitive side that can only improve.
    But Spurs have been nailed on certs to finish in the top 4 for the past half a dozen years, and they've bottled it every single time - why would this year be any different?

    Leicester will fall from their perch eventually, they have a horrible run of away games to come. Ditto Palace and Watford who won't stay there forever either. Arsenal and MC will qualify, with probably MU in third. The last CL place is then between everyone else, one of Liverpool, Everton or Spurs,so that 4/5 looks very skinny to me. Chelski are too far back even if they win every remaining match.
    When you say "nailed on cents", who labelled them as that? They have finished top 4 twice incidentally.

    This is a different Spurs, managed by the best young coach in the League. An interesting stat, of the last 18 England debutants, 10 were coached by Poch. The improvement he gets out of players is phenomenal, look at Dembele.
    Pundits and bookies always overestimate Spurs' chances of a top 4 finish. :) They might yet do it, but it really shouldn't be an odds-on bet in December. I'd price them at perhaps 3/2 to hold their 4th place until the end of the season.
    I'm very happy to back Spurs at 6/4 top 4 with you, can I have £20 please?
    Ha, I rather walked into that one didn't I? Okay, you're on, £20 at 6/4 for Spurs to finish in the top 4 of the Premier League 2015-16
    Thank you and best wishes
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003
    DavidL said:

    Oh I do like a bit of Ben Stokes in the morning.

    Scottish Labour remain in disarray so, as I have been saying on here for some months now, I think the bet on Labour coming third in Scotland has value. It really shouldn't happen but the serious lack of money is just the latest straw in the wind.

    How on earth are the LD's managing for money? Particularly in Scotland!
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003
    Oh dear, Stokes gone. Brings back my long-past youth hearing about Compton batting on!
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308

    DavidL said:

    Oh I do like a bit of Ben Stokes in the morning.

    Scottish Labour remain in disarray so, as I have been saying on here for some months now, I think the bet on Labour coming third in Scotland has value. It really shouldn't happen but the serious lack of money is just the latest straw in the wind.

    How on earth are the LD's managing for money? Particularly in Scotland!
    I am really not sure. They are almost invisible these days and Ruth Davidson fancies their votes. I honestly wonder if they will even have a full slate of candidates. They would be better to try and concentrate on the far north and the list, a bit like the greens.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Surely Labour don't need money, that army of support and the much vaunted ground game that IOS told us about.. In fact its so good he cannot tell us about it, even now.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    Oh crap. Stokes goes trying to be silly. 196/5.
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    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Putney, not tips but the only two odds I'd consider for the F1 title race would be Vettel at 5 and Kvyat at 151. Perhaps goes rather saying that I don't think the latter as likely as the former.

    Anyway, reasoning:
    Vettel - very good driver, de facto number one, Ferrari has no problem with team orders, team made a great leap forward from 2014 to 2015, if that happens again they could be close enough to take the title [NB Mercedes may shift to a team orders approach if Ferrari are that close, which is almost certainly a case of Bad Luck, Nico].

    Kvyat - car had perhaps the best chassis last year, using an up to date Renault engine [but that's not necessarily in the positive column], beat Ricciardo last year (Ricciardo's odds are 67), very capable driver.

    Williams will struggle because their car hasn't had the best downforce and, using a Mercedes, one suspects the slight delay to getting the most recent engine would become longer if they were threatening the title. McLaren needs a slightly better car and a much better engine. And more reliability. Toro Rosso may leapfrog Red Bull but won't beat Ferrari, because they'll be using a 2015-spec Ferrari engine.
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    Surely Labour don't need money, that army of support and the much vaunted ground game that IOS told us about.. In fact its so good he cannot tell us about it, even now.

    The next test of the ground game will come from across the pond where the conventional wisdom is that Rubio will flop in the early states because he has no local organisation.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    DavidL said:

    Oh I do like a bit of Ben Stokes in the morning.

    Scottish Labour remain in disarray so, as I have been saying on here for some months now, I think the bet on Labour coming third in Scotland has value. It really shouldn't happen but the serious lack of money is just the latest straw in the wind.

    How on earth are the LD's managing for money? Particularly in Scotland!
    The LDs had a massive influx of new members post the General Election, and are - IIRC - at their highest membership level for a decade, so I guess they are probably "OK" in England and Wales.

    Scotland is another story.
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    F1: a rundown of how the teams did in 2015, and might do in 2016:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/2015-season-review.html
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    On Premier League betting, I think Blackburn63 is underselling Spurs. They are 12/1 for the title - I think that's value, but due to my allegiances I cannot make that bet.

    rcs1000 - are you not missing the point that in May, 2012 the Lib Dems were polling between 8% and 10% in the GE voting intention and polled 16% in the locals?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    Sandpit said:

    Oh crap. Stokes goes trying to be silly. 196/5.

    It was a reckless shot but I think part of the problem is Compton who is just not scoring. If England are not to get bogged down completely his partners are under pressure to score fast. Bairstow is now feeling the same. As it is the overs with the old soft ball have been wasted by Compton.

    I can fully understand his need for a score to secure his place on the return to the team but I think he will end up costing us wickets at the other end.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    tlg86 said:

    On Premier League betting, I think Blackburn63 is underselling Spurs. They are 12/1 for the title - I think that's value, but due to my allegiances I cannot make that bet.

    rcs1000 - are you not missing the point that in May, 2012 the Lib Dems were polling between 8% and 10% in the GE voting intention and polled 16% in the locals?

    They really weren't you know. Check out Mark Pack's spreadsheet here: http://www.markpack.org.uk/files/2015/10/Mark-Packs-opinion-polls-spreadsheet.xls
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    tlg86 said:

    On Premier League betting, I think Blackburn63 is underselling Spurs. They are 12/1 for the title - I think that's value, but due to my allegiances I cannot make that bet.

    rcs1000 - are you not missing the point that in May, 2012 the Lib Dems were polling between 8% and 10% in the GE voting intention and polled 16% in the locals?

    The average LibDem vote share - according to Mark Pack's spreadsheet - was 9.8% in April 2012, so you are more right than me :lol:

    That is still higher than it is now, mind. So assuming the LDs are going to do much better this time around seems optimistic.
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh crap. Stokes goes trying to be silly. 196/5.

    It was a reckless shot but I think part of the problem is Compton who is just not scoring. If England are not to get bogged down completely his partners are under pressure to score fast. Bairstow is now feeling the same. As it is the overs with the old soft ball have been wasted by Compton.

    I can fully understand his need for a score to secure his place on the return to the team but I think he will end up costing us wickets at the other end.
    The priority is for England to get a score. Thanks to his efforts they have got a very good chance of so doing.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    edited December 2015

    F1: a rundown of how the teams did in 2015, and might do in 2016:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/2015-season-review.html

    Good piece Mr Dancer. I think Vettel at 5 is priced about right, given that Lewis (Sir Lewis next week, or is 30 too young for that?) will be odds-on and Rosberg short odds against.

    I remember a comment possibly from Joe Saward about engines - that the manufacturers have to deliver the same spec engine to all teams at the same time, so Mercedes have to make upgrades available to Williams at the same time as to their own team. Williams might be a good bet for 2nd if the odds are long enough.

    The big two unknowns next year are McLaren and Haas, my guess is that they will both surprise on the upside in performance. Manor's new engines could also push Sauber to last place.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    rcs1000 said:

    Just on the locals in 2016: it's worth remembering - not that anyone's forgotten - that it's London's turn. It will be fascinating to see how the LibDems do in South West London.

    Mayoral election yes, the local elections are in 2018.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Just on the locals in 2016: it's worth remembering - not that anyone's forgotten - that it's London's turn. It will be fascinating to see how the LibDems do in South West London.

    Mayoral election yes, the local elections are in 2018.
    Thank you.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    edited December 2015
    Mr. Sandpit, Hamilton should not get a knighthood, certainly not at this stage.

    I thought that engine-spec rule was set for 2017, in response to the fact Red Bull had been faced with either sticking with Renault or shifting to an out-of-date Ferrari engine.

    I think Haas will do well. Got a good engine, done lots of homework this year and Grosjean's an impressive driver. McLaren's fate is largely tied to Honda. From one year to the next, Ferrari improved a fair bit, but Renault went backwards. We'll have to see.

    Edited extra bit: thanks :)
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    We're entering a critical stage of expectations management in the Labour party. What will be considered acceptable in May? Will it be enough for Labour to be second in Scotland and keep power (if not an overall majority) in Wales? Will Sadiq Khan winning the Mayoralty be hailed as crushing vindication of project Corbyn?

    Labour dissident MPs need to establish a base level of performance to judge Jeremy Corbyn against beyond which they are prepared to act and to agree this among themselves. Mind you, it would help if they had the first clue what such an action might be.
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    BBC's got a live page regarding flooding:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-35182274
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh I do like a bit of Ben Stokes in the morning.

    Scottish Labour remain in disarray so, as I have been saying on here for some months now, I think the bet on Labour coming third in Scotland has value. It really shouldn't happen but the serious lack of money is just the latest straw in the wind.

    How on earth are the LD's managing for money? Particularly in Scotland!
    The LDs had a massive influx of new members post the General Election, and are - IIRC - at their highest membership level for a decade, so I guess they are probably "OK" in England and Wales.

    Scotland is another story.
    New members or former members, who couldn't stomach the Coalition, and in particular the bedroom tax and tuition fees, rejoining?
    If so, bodes well.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Rod Liddle's predictions for 2016 are rather fun, and not entirely unlikely http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/comment/columns/rodliddle/article1649266.ece
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh I do like a bit of Ben Stokes in the morning.

    Scottish Labour remain in disarray so, as I have been saying on here for some months now, I think the bet on Labour coming third in Scotland has value. It really shouldn't happen but the serious lack of money is just the latest straw in the wind.

    How on earth are the LD's managing for money? Particularly in Scotland!
    The LDs had a massive influx of new members post the General Election, and are - IIRC - at their highest membership level for a decade, so I guess they are probably "OK" in England and Wales.

    Scotland is another story.
    New members or former members, who couldn't stomach the Coalition, and in particular the bedroom tax and tuition fees, rejoining?
    If so, bodes well.
    My personal opinion is that if there's one thing a LibDem activist hates, it's power.

    Now there is little chance of the LibDems having any actual power for the foreseeable future, it is now OK for former members to rejoin the party.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    alex. said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh crap. Stokes goes trying to be silly. 196/5.

    It was a reckless shot but I think part of the problem is Compton who is just not scoring. If England are not to get bogged down completely his partners are under pressure to score fast. Bairstow is now feeling the same. As it is the overs with the old soft ball have been wasted by Compton.

    I can fully understand his need for a score to secure his place on the return to the team but I think he will end up costing us wickets at the other end.
    The priority is for England to get a score. Thanks to his efforts they have got a very good chance of so doing.
    Weirdly he is doing better with the new ball. It maybe doesn't suit his style to be putting the work on the ball. He is more effective deflecting and gliding a harder ball off the blade. In terms of time at the crease it is a good effort and has made up for Cook getting a duck. I just live in fear of those two having a partnership....
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    edited December 2015

    We're entering a critical stage of expectations management in the Labour party. What will be considered acceptable in May? Will it be enough for Labour to be second in Scotland and keep power (if not an overall majority) in Wales? Will Sadiq Khan winning the Mayoralty be hailed as crushing vindication of project Corbyn?

    Labour dissident MPs need to establish a base level of performance to judge Jeremy Corbyn against beyond which they are prepared to act and to agree this among themselves. Mind you, it would help if they had the first clue what such an action might be.

    Will the supposedly forthcoming reshuffle of the moderates out of the shad cab give them enough of a hint that the deselections are coming, or will the PLP that failed to topple Brown and Miliband again show their lack of spine?

    Given how embedded the Corbynites now are in the party, the most obvious conclusion would be a massive SDP2 or Co-Operative Party - but it needs huge numbers though. In theory if they can form the second largest grouping in Parliament they can kick Corbyn out of the LotO role for one of their own (Benn, Johnson, Harman..?) if they have the balls to do it. That's a very big IF though, most of them have spent their lives dominated by the Labour Party and don't know anything different.

    Of course, in the meantime the LDs, Tories and UKIP will be more than happy to welcome any defectors.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    On Premier League betting, I think Blackburn63 is underselling Spurs. They are 12/1 for the title - I think that's value, but due to my allegiances I cannot make that bet.

    rcs1000 - are you not missing the point that in May, 2012 the Lib Dems were polling between 8% and 10% in the GE voting intention and polled 16% in the locals?

    The average LibDem vote share - according to Mark Pack's spreadsheet - was 9.8% in April 2012, so you are more right than me :lol:

    That is still higher than it is now, mind. So assuming the LDs are going to do much better this time around seems optimistic.
    That's a fantastic spreadsheet - I'll keep that for future reference. Looking at the councils up for election, they don't look necessarily great for the Lib Dems so they did quite well in 2012. It will be interesting to see how they do this time.
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    Mr. Sandpit, that would be, I think, the correct choice for Not-Mental Labour.

    I don't think they'll do it. Time for rapid action has faded. Corbyn's been there for months. They've settled nicely into impotent griping.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308

    We're entering a critical stage of expectations management in the Labour party. What will be considered acceptable in May? Will it be enough for Labour to be second in Scotland and keep power (if not an overall majority) in Wales? Will Sadiq Khan winning the Mayoralty be hailed as crushing vindication of project Corbyn?

    Labour dissident MPs need to establish a base level of performance to judge Jeremy Corbyn against beyond which they are prepared to act and to agree this among themselves. Mind you, it would help if they had the first clue what such an action might be.

    There will always be an excuse for inaction, especially for the latter reason. Even a complete disaster will be a time when everyone should be pulling together or some such nonsense.
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    Btw I just read that Lynton Crosby is to be knighted. I've long considered honours to be outdated and unfettered cronyism, knighting a PR/spin doctor epitomises how shallow a society we've become and demonstrates how worthless our honours system is, it cheapens the whole tawdry process.

    I'd say helping prevent five years of EICIPM has been a great service to the nation. The nation is better off for Crosby's contribution and I'm sure the PM would agree.

    Incidentally someone like Crosby getting an honour would be not just appropriate but quite traditional. That was the purpose of honours in the very first place!
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    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    edited December 2015

    Mr. Sandpit, that would be, I think, the correct choice for Not-Mental Labour.

    I don't think they'll do it. Time for rapid action has faded. Corbyn's been there for months. They've settled nicely into impotent griping.

    If they'd had any intelligence they'd've joined the Tories in the first place :smiley:



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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh I do like a bit of Ben Stokes in the morning.

    Scottish Labour remain in disarray so, as I have been saying on here for some months now, I think the bet on Labour coming third in Scotland has value. It really shouldn't happen but the serious lack of money is just the latest straw in the wind.

    How on earth are the LD's managing for money? Particularly in Scotland!
    The LDs had a massive influx of new members post the General Election, and are - IIRC - at their highest membership level for a decade, so I guess they are probably "OK" in England and Wales.

    Scotland is another story.
    New members or former members, who couldn't stomach the Coalition, and in particular the bedroom tax and tuition fees, rejoining?
    If so, bodes well.
    My personal opinion is that if there's one thing a LibDem activist hates, it's power.

    Now there is little chance of the LibDems having any actual power for the foreseeable future, it is now OK for former members to rejoin the party.
    That's somewhat unfair, but yet........
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    Mr. Abroad, you tinker, you.

    They could've joined the Liberal Party.

    Mr. Thompson, must admit, the phrase "No shit, Sherlock" did spring to mind when I saw that story.

    What, the man who ensured the PM stayed the PM and actually got an outright majority might get a reward from the PM? No, really?

    [I do agree honours should be reformed so it's more about ordinary people who either put in long service to the nation's benefit (charities etc) or those who do extraordinary things, rather than as a standard reward for civil servants and politicians who hang around long enough].
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Wow

    #Kirkstall Road in #Leeds is like a river -people gathering to look, they can't believe what they're seeing. #floods https://t.co/gbQuMVJm3W
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    edited December 2015
    Mr Dancer, I agree that Lewis is probably too young for the big Sir, so I would give it instead to the very large brain behind their utterly dominant car. Step forward Sir Paddy Lowe.
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    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Hillary to win the presidency at 8/11 looks very tempting. The Republicans don't seem serious about winning the White House - if they were they'd have reduced the field to no more than six by now, one of whom would be a credible candidate.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    DavidL said:

    We're entering a critical stage of expectations management in the Labour party. What will be considered acceptable in May? Will it be enough for Labour to be second in Scotland and keep power (if not an overall majority) in Wales? Will Sadiq Khan winning the Mayoralty be hailed as crushing vindication of project Corbyn?

    Labour dissident MPs need to establish a base level of performance to judge Jeremy Corbyn against beyond which they are prepared to act and to agree this among themselves. Mind you, it would help if they had the first clue what such an action might be.

    There will always be an excuse for inaction, especially for the latter reason. Even a complete disaster will be a time when everyone should be pulling together or some such nonsense.
    One problem is that there are multiple tests which will effectively be ORed together, so Corbyn only has to vaguely pass one to pass them all.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Hillary to win the presidency at 8/11 looks very tempting. The Republicans don't seem serious about winning the White House - if they were they'd have reduced the field to no more than six by now, one of whom would be a credible candidate.
    I think the best spread has to be selling Rubio to be the Republican nominee, but covering it with buying him as President. He is the only Republican nominee I see as near cert against Hillary.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited December 2015
    What was that I read about England's picking a strong batting line-up?
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    What was that I read about England's picking a strong batting line-up?

    Nearly as overhyped as Labour's ground game.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Hillary to win the presidency at 8/11 looks very tempting. The Republicans don't seem serious about winning the White House - if they were they'd have reduced the field to no more than six by now, one of whom would be a credible candidate.
    I just can't bring myself to put money on Hilary. I think she represents everything people dislike about politicians, and is a huge turnoff to floating voters. Assuming the Republicans manage not to eat themselves, it should be their election to lose.

    Also, as an IT guy, this email story has to have way more to it then has come out so far. It has the feeling of a story that will come out in the campaign proper. Why, for example, is she not suing the hell out of whoever she employed to run it with no backups, or was the lack of backups a feature rather than a bug..?
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    Johnny appears to be playing the wrong sport...you aren't suppose to head the ball !!!
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    And Bairstow gone...sigh....
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    Mr. Sandpit, some say Ross Brawn might be the chap (unless he already has a knighthood).

    Which reminds me, apparently there's no love lost between Wolff and Lauda, to the extent there were rumours the latter might exit the team.
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    No-one defending government cuts to flood defences? Or attacking them? Maybe tomorrow, once the party lines have been decided.
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    I am happy to agree Corbyn is a joke, but do we have to accompany such claims with silly pictures that are essentially fakes since the camera has merely caught a tiny and contradictory fraction of a much wider and less foolish action.
    Its a pathetic game all papers sink to, can't PB be a bit better?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    12% for UKIP is well up on 2012, but well down on what the party achieved in 2013/14. The share may increase as the EU referendum becomes more salient. It would be enough to win seats in the London and Welsh assemblies.

    16% looks achievable for the Lib Dems. They are doing better in local by-elections, and their score in local elections bears little relation to their poll numbers.

    31% for Labour? Completely dire. MIlliband achieved 37%, in his first round of local elections. That would suggest Labour's support would go backwards at the next election.

    32% for the Conservative. Not especially impressive, but no indication that they'll be troubled much in 2020.
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    Mr. L, I think the large rainfall, and persistent recurrence of new rainfall, makes it tricky.

    Flood defences aren't magic. It's hard to assess how much difference they have made, or would have made, or the damage to them has made to subsequent flooding.

    There'll be criticism about the shortage of sandbags available, but that also might be due to the prolonged and repeated nature of the flooding.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,995

    Btw I just read that Lynton Crosby is to be knighted. I've long considered honours to be outdated and unfettered cronyism, knighting a PR/spin doctor epitomises how shallow a society we've become and demonstrates how worthless our honours system is, it cheapens the whole tawdry process.

    ertainly could not get any shallower than Cameron , first his barber now some spin doctor, what a bunch the Tories are.
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    The first round of local elections has a rather good record of predicting the subsequent general election:

    2011 Gov lead +1 = Gov reelected
    2006 Opp lead +13 = Opp gain power
    2002 Opp lead +1 = Gov reelected
    1998 Gov lead +4 = Gov reelected
    1993 Opp lead +8 = Opp gain power *
    1988 Gov lead +1 = Gov reelected
    1984 Gov lead +1 = Gov reelected
    1980 Opp lead +2 = Gov reelected **

    * Blair replacing Smith was beneficial to the Opposition
    ** Foot replacing Callaghan was detrimental to the Opposition

    Taking the pattern back further we see that the Opposition had a big lead in 1975 and went on to gain power in 1979:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_1975

    Likewise the Opposition had a big lead in 1971 and went on to gain power in 1974:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:English_local_elections,_1971

    And in 1967 the Opposition had a big lead in 1967 and went on to gain power in 1970:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_London_Council_election,_1967





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    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    edited December 2015
    The whole tone and direction if this article only suggests what I pointed out right from the outset. Corbyns campaign was funded and organised by Unite and StW. JC is but one leg of an unholy trinity. The aim is to take over the labour party. Actions speak louder than words and when Corbyn talks about 'developing the movement'... well its a dead giveaway. Good luck Labour... you're stuffed.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,995
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh I do like a bit of Ben Stokes in the morning.

    Scottish Labour remain in disarray so, as I have been saying on here for some months now, I think the bet on Labour coming third in Scotland has value. It really shouldn't happen but the serious lack of money is just the latest straw in the wind.

    How on earth are the LD's managing for money? Particularly in Scotland!
    I am really not sure. They are almost invisible these days and Ruth Davidson fancies their votes. I honestly wonder if they will even have a full slate of candidates. They would be better to try and concentrate on the far north and the list, a bit like the greens.
    Hello David, Ruth Davidson is just desperate for any votes , Tories and Labour are like baldy men fighting for the comb. Will be nice to see Lib Dems wiped out though and one can only hope Rennie is a casualty.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @rustinpeace00: Arise, Sir Lynton Crosby. A stunning piece of absolutely world class trolling. The lefties are in bits. Bravo Cameron!
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    Scott_P said:

    @rustinpeace00: Arise, Sir Lynton Crosby. A stunning piece of absolutely world class trolling. The lefties are in bits. Bravo Cameron!

    For shits'n'giggles, Cameron should make Rupert Murdoch a Lord. I think Twitter would have a meltdown
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    rcs1000 said:

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Hillary to win the presidency at 8/11 looks very tempting. The Republicans don't seem serious about winning the White House - if they were they'd have reduced the field to no more than six by now, one of whom would be a credible candidate.
    I think the best spread has to be selling Rubio to be the Republican nominee, but covering it with buying him as President. He is the only Republican nominee I see as near cert against Hillary.
    Even if Trump ran as an Independent ?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003

    Scott_P said:

    @rustinpeace00: Arise, Sir Lynton Crosby. A stunning piece of absolutely world class trolling. The lefties are in bits. Bravo Cameron!

    For shits'n'giggles, Cameron should make Rupert Murdoch a Lord. I think Twitter would have a meltdown
    He's a Septic isn't he now; can't be a Lord.
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    Scott_P said:

    @rustinpeace00: Arise, Sir Lynton Crosby. A stunning piece of absolutely world class trolling. The lefties are in bits. Bravo Cameron!

    For shits'n'giggles, Cameron should make Rupert Murdoch a Lord. I think Twitter would have a meltdown
    He's a Septic isn't he now; can't be a Lord.
    He's American. So a slight problem.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Even if Trump ran as an Independent ?

    I am amazed how people see Hillary Clinton with rose tinted spectacles. She is a deeply, deeply, flawed candidate. She is assailable on so many fronts.

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    Mr. Sandpit, some say Ross Brawn might be the chap (unless he already has a knighthood).

    Which reminds me, apparently there's no love lost between Wolff and Lauda, to the extent there were rumours the latter might exit the team.

    I don't think Brawn is a Sir yet, but he's spent the last couple of years off fishing, rather than achieving anything that might be worthy of a knighthood.

    Not sure if the rumoured falling out between Wolff and Lauda is real or not. I'd guess that there was probably a heated exchange overheard by someone and blown out of proportion.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    rcs1000 said:

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Hillary to win the presidency at 8/11 looks very tempting. The Republicans don't seem serious about winning the White House - if they were they'd have reduced the field to no more than six by now, one of whom would be a credible candidate.
    I think the best spread has to be selling Rubio to be the Republican nominee, but covering it with buying him as President. He is the only Republican nominee I see as near cert against Hillary.
    Even if Trump ran as an Independent ?
    That's the kicker isn't it?

    With no Trump, I think Rubio walks it against Hillary. (Hillary, though, walks it against Cruz. Trump is a much more interesting question.)
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    Scott_P said:

    @rustinpeace00: Arise, Sir Lynton Crosby. A stunning piece of absolutely world class trolling. The lefties are in bits. Bravo Cameron!

    For shits'n'giggles, Cameron should make Rupert Murdoch a Lord. I think Twitter would have a meltdown
    He's a Septic isn't he now; can't be a Lord.
    He's American. So a slight problem.
    He lost his Australian citizenship when he naturalised as an American citizen, but Australian law has subsequently changed and he could apply to resume his Australian citizenship.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    The first round of local elections has a rather good record of predicting the subsequent general election:

    2011 Gov lead +1 = Gov reelected
    2006 Opp lead +13 = Opp gain power
    2002 Opp lead +1 = Gov reelected
    1998 Gov lead +4 = Gov reelected
    1993 Opp lead +8 = Opp gain power *
    1988 Gov lead +1 = Gov reelected
    1984 Gov lead +1 = Gov reelected
    1980 Opp lead +2 = Gov reelected **

    * Blair replacing Smith was beneficial to the Opposition
    ** Foot replacing Callaghan was detrimental to the Opposition

    Taking the pattern back further we see that the Opposition had a big lead in 1975 and went on to gain power in 1979:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_1975

    Likewise the Opposition had a big lead in 1971 and went on to gain power in 1974:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:English_local_elections,_1971

    And in 1967 the Opposition had a big lead in 1967 and went on to gain power in 1970:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_London_Council_election,_1967





    That is interesting.

    I wonder how to interpret it. In the cases where the Opposition surges post-GE, is the point that they have suddenly gained credibility (through a change of leader, though that doesn't apply to 67 or 71) and that voters who were already disenchanted with the Government but didn't feel they could back the Opposition at the GE, are enthused by the new-look Opposition sufficiently to give the Government a kicking in the locals and at the next GE?

    Worth noting that while swapping Smith for Blair benefited the Opposition, so did swapping Kinnock for Smith.
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    No-one defending government cuts to flood defences? Or attacking them? Maybe tomorrow, once the party lines have been decided.

    A statement from the the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs reads:

    “Over the next six years we will be investing £2.3 billion in flood defences which is a real terms increase on the £1.7bn invested in the last Parliament. This which will see 1,500 new defences built and 300,000 homes better protected.
    "In addition, flood maintenance spending will be protected in real terms over this Parliament.
    “There has been no cut to flood spending and during the last Parliament we spent £3.2 billion on flood management and defences compared to £2.7 billion in the previous five years.
    “After the 2013/14 floods there was a special one-off additional investment from the Treasury of £270 million spread across three years to improve and repair flood defences which inflated the overall spend.”
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Sandpit said:

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Tottenham to finish top 4, 4/5 in a few places, 80% return in less than 5 months. A young, fit, competitive side that can only improve.
    But Spurs have been nailed on certs to finish in the top 4 for the past half a dozen years, and they've bottled it every single time - why would this year be any different?

    Leicester will fall from their perch eventually, they have a horrible run of away games to come. Ditto Palace and Watford who won't stay there forever either. Arsenal and MC will qualify, with probably MU in third. The last CL place is then between everyone else, one of Liverpool, Everton or Spurs,so that 4/5 looks very skinny to me. Chelski are too far back even if they win every remaining match.
    MU will not make the top 4. The problems are not just with LVG. They will take more than a season and lots of money to fix. Leicester have a nine point cushion from 5th place and can cope with some tough away games - we also have some easy ones such as Villa away. We also have wealthy owners who want to strengthen this window.

    Spurs for 4th place is a reasonable tip, but they are still too patchy and have European games on Thursdays to cope with, I cannot see them overtaking Arsenal.
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    Mr. Sandpit, if I remember rightly, the 2014 car was more Brawn's than Lowe's, and the 2015 car has simply continued from that.

    Not saying Lowe isn't earning his crust, only that the foundations of success were laid by Brawn.

    When Ecclestone goes, I think Brawn would be a better successor than the much touted Horner.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    No-one defending government cuts to flood defences? Or attacking them? Maybe tomorrow, once the party lines have been decided.

    Have there actually been any cuts to flood defence budgets? AIUI there was some extra payments made last year after a serious flood, and any 'cuts' are due solely to this one-off payment not being made (so far) this year.
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    Sandpit said:

    Btw I just read that Lynton Crosby is to be knighted. I've long considered honours to be outdated and unfettered cronyism, knighting a PR/spin doctor epitomises how shallow a society we've become and demonstrates how worthless our honours system is, it cheapens the whole tawdry process.

    Honours should be given only for exceptional achievement, not for simply doing the job he was (very well!) paid to do. Same with giving honours to time-servers in the civil service, what have most of them ever achieved?
    Yes indeed. Just ask Lord Rennard.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Btw, I'm a bit puzzled by comments to the effect that knighting Lynton Crosby would represent a "new low" (etc etc) for the honours system/our society/Western civilization. Whether the honours system is palatable is a matter in itself but knighting Crosby would be no more than par for the course, no? Tim Bell? Maurice Saatchi?
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    Wanderer said:

    Btw, I'm a bit puzzled by comments to the effect that knighting Lynton Crosby would represent a "new low" (etc etc) for the honours system/our society/Western civilization. Whether the honours system is palatable is a matter in itself but knighting Crosby would be no more than par for the course, no? Tim Bell? Maurice Saatchi?

    And Lord Gould.
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    Sandpit said:

    No-one defending government cuts to flood defences? Or attacking them? Maybe tomorrow, once the party lines have been decided.

    Have there actually been any cuts to flood defence budgets? AIUI there was some extra payments made last year after a serious flood, and any 'cuts' are due solely to this one-off payment not being made (so far) this year.
    I think that is correct. See my earlier comment.
    Flood defences have a purpose but they have a limitation. You cannot wish away the water which has to go somewhere. We have had a weather cycle which has brought warm and wet weather from the south as opposed from the north. Something to do with a butterfly fluttering its wings in China.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Sandpit said:

    No-one defending government cuts to flood defences? Or attacking them? Maybe tomorrow, once the party lines have been decided.

    Have there actually been any cuts to flood defence budgets? AIUI there was some extra payments made last year after a serious flood, and any 'cuts' are due solely to this one-off payment not being made (so far) this year.
    I had a curious conversation a couple of years ago with a Labour activist in Derby who was exulting at the floods in the Thames Valley because "southern Tories" (who she seemed to think constituted the whole population of the South) had cut funding for flood defences for the North and were now getting a taste of their own water.

    Quite weirdly small-minded. And then she and her colleagues contrived to lose Derby North.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003

    Scott_P said:

    @rustinpeace00: Arise, Sir Lynton Crosby. A stunning piece of absolutely world class trolling. The lefties are in bits. Bravo Cameron!

    For shits'n'giggles, Cameron should make Rupert Murdoch a Lord. I think Twitter would have a meltdown
    He's a Septic isn't he now; can't be a Lord.
    He's American. So a slight problem.
    Indeed. Rhyming slang. Septic Tank = Yank. Aka American.

    Unless you're one of the people who was 21 before they knew "damnyankees" was two words!
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    Sandpit said:

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Tottenham to finish top 4, 4/5 in a few places, 80% return in less than 5 months. A young, fit, competitive side that can only improve.
    But Spurs have been nailed on certs to finish in the top 4 for the past half a dozen years, and they've bottled it every single time - why would this year be any different?

    Leicester will fall from their perch eventually, they have a horrible run of away games to come. Ditto Palace and Watford who won't stay there forever either. Arsenal and MC will qualify, with probably MU in third. The last CL place is then between everyone else, one of Liverpool, Everton or Spurs,so that 4/5 looks very skinny to me. Chelski are too far back even if they win every remaining match.
    MU will not make the top 4. The problems are not just with LVG. They will take more than a season and lots of money to fix. Leicester have a nine point cushion from 5th place and can cope with some tough away games - we also have some easy ones such as Villa away. We also have wealthy owners who want to strengthen this window.

    Spurs for 4th place is a reasonable tip, but they are still too patchy and have European games on Thursdays to cope with, I cannot see them overtaking Arsenal.
    It's certainly the most open league table in years at this stage of the season. Lots of teams well out of position. I think the pressure will eventually get to Leicester but that doesn't take away from their amazing season so far. I'm not sure with MU, I think they have enough institutional experience to get through a rough patch even if the manager changes.

    I've just laid Mr @blackburn63 £20 at 6/4 that Spurs finish in the top 4. I will stand by my thinking that they're odds against for the CL places. I think there's a case to be made down to Everton in 9th, could be a big last few weeks of the season come April and May.
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    Sandpit said:

    OGH/TSE - During this period between Christmas and the New Year which is always very quiet on PB.com, might I suggest that the punters amongst us nominate one wager for 2016 (or even beyond) currently on offer, which they believe will prove profitable, giving brief reasons for their choice.
    This needn't involve a dedicated thread, although it would help to keep such suggestions together, making it easier to check back over time to see which proved successful.

    Tottenham to finish top 4, 4/5 in a few places, 80% return in less than 5 months. A young, fit, competitive side that can only improve.
    But Spurs have been nailed on certs to finish in the top 4 for the past half a dozen years, and they've bottled it every single time - why would this year be any different?

    Leicester will fall from their perch eventually, they have a horrible run of away games to come. Ditto Palace and Watford who won't stay there forever either. Arsenal and MC will qualify, with probably MU in third. The last CL place is then between everyone else, one of Liverpool, Everton or Spurs,so that 4/5 looks very skinny to me. Chelski are too far back even if they win every remaining match.
    MU will not make the top 4. The problems are not just with LVG. They will take more than a season and lots of money to fix. Leicester have a nine point cushion from 5th place and can cope with some tough away games - we also have some easy ones such as Villa away. We also have wealthy owners who want to strengthen this window.

    Spurs for 4th place is a reasonable tip, but they are still too patchy and have European games on Thursdays to cope with, I cannot see them overtaking Arsenal.
    Why should it take lots of money to fix MU? If other teams are doing very nicely thank you by not spending large sums then why need it be the opposite for MU.
    What MU need to do is what all teams need to do which is to buy wisely.
    This season may be presaging a future where more teams have the funds to build a competitive team and the headline teams will have to show some vision and not just a fat cheque book.
    In fact the exact opposite of what F1 has become. How most of the F1 grid must look on at Watford and Crystal Palace with envy.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    edited December 2015

    Mr. Sandpit, if I remember rightly, the 2014 car was more Brawn's than Lowe's, and the 2015 car has simply continued from that.

    Not saying Lowe isn't earning his crust, only that the foundations of success were laid by Brawn.

    When Ecclestone goes, I think Brawn would be a better successor than the much touted Horner.

    I thought that Mr Brawn was more of the chassis and aero guy, whereas Mr Lowe was the guy who aced the new power unit design. Both are genius though, they came up with a very dominant car against tough competition.

    I think Bernie sees Horner as a younger version of himself, though it took all of Bernies skills to stop RB having no engines at all for 2016! I think Horner probably owes a big favour to Bernie now, and the old man doesn't forget these things...
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