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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Result (December 16th 2015) and Local By-

SystemSystem Posts: 11,704
edited December 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Result (December 16th 2015) and Local By-Election Preview : December 17th 2015

Gogarth (Con defence) on Conwy
Result: Conservative 318 (42% +12%), Labour 187 (25% -3%), Plaid Cymru 167 (22% +10%), Liberal Democrat 49 (7%), Independent 28 (4% -26%)
Conservative HOLD with a majority of 131 (17%) on a swing of 7.5% from Labour to Conservative

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,075
    edited December 2015
    Thirst.

    Thanks (Harry, I assume?)

    Gogarth looks an interesting result on the Labour to Conservative swing, except as is often the case with locals, the lack of a candidate (independent in this case) skewed matters.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    Stourport's a good one. Was Richard Taylor the first truly Indy MP to retain his seat at a GE?
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    2 points of interest not picked up by Harry .
    The No Description candidate in Hertford Heath is in fact the Conservative candidate but with no description due to a nomination error .
    Similarly as it seems to be Xmas , Darren Allanson , the no description candidate in Ryedale Derwent is in fact the Lib Dem candidate also with no party description due to a nomination error .
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Dear oh dear.

    This Lucy Allan lady deserves all she gets for those voicemail messages, given her background.

    She wouldn't get a job in the HR dept of any reputable company - why did the tory party take her on?
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    There was a Tory win in Shepperton on Tuesday, I believe.

    Again, roughly a 5.5% swing from Lab to Con.

    I'm looking at Brent to see Labour accumulate more pointless votes. They did it in West Ham the other week, whilst they were losing vote share almost everywhere else.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Thanks to Harry and the team, as always. Your efforts are much appreciated.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    My mother's family are from Ryedale. I remember the 1986 by-election and people (now long dead of course) reminiscing about voting for Lloyd George.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    AndyJS said:

    Thanks to Harry and the team, as always. Your efforts are much appreciated.

    Seconded. I love the detail and precision in these pieces.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited December 2015
    Cheers Harry. - “Ryedale elected a Liberal Alliance MP”

    My memory is not that long, were the Lib Alliance MPs a precursor to the Liberal Democrats?
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,316
    edited December 2015
    The problem with the Divorce Form doesn't look like some complex mathematical formula.

    It looks as if it just didn't add up - literally ANYONE who had taken the trouble to use their own calculator to manually check the calculation (just simple adding and subtracting) would have spotted it.

    Unbelievable.

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/dec/17/revealed-divorce-software-error-to-hit-thousands-of-settlements
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Cheers Harry. - “Ryedale elected a Liberal Alliance MP”

    My memory is not that long, were the Lib Alliance MPs a precursor to the Liberal Democrats?

    The SDP and Liberals had an electoral alliance before they merged after the 87 election.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/17/osborne-hands-advisers-big-pay-rises-while-freezing-public-sector-wages


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    The thing is about this current crop of Tories- with the fracking, the environmental hooliganism, the bullying of the BBC and the House of Lords- they know they are a bunch of self serving shytebags and they don't care. You have to admire them for that I guess. Go Tories- they don't believe in anything other than making money. The political equivalent of Millwall fans.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    2 points of interest not picked up by Harry .
    The No Description candidate in Hertford Heath is in fact the Conservative candidate but with no description due to a nomination error .
    Similarly as it seems to be Xmas , Darren Allanson , the no description candidate in Ryedale Derwent is in fact the Lib Dem candidate also with no party description due to a nomination error .

    It doesn't seem the highest recommendation for office does it?

    (Or is it notoriously complex? I've never done it.)
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    'If Osborne stands he will probably get it, Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power, against a Chuka Umunna, Dan Jarvis or even Andy Burnham he may have had problems at the election, against Corbyn and probably Hilary Benn he should win one term .'

    It is not accurate to say that ' Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power'.. Since World War 2 there have been three examples of the Chancellor moving next door to No 10 - Macmillan - Major - and Brown. On three other occasions the PM was succeeded by his Foreign Secretary - Eden - Home - and Callaghan (also a former Chancellor). Macmillan and Major were not toxic at the time and went on to win an election. Brown had become toxic and lost. Osborne is probably at least as toxic as Brown.I also believe that Hilary Benn would prove a far more formidable opponent to him than Burnham.- and indeed more so than Howard proved to be against Blair in 2005
  • Options
    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    justin124 said:


    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    'If Osborne stands he will probably get it, Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power, against a Chuka Umunna, Dan Jarvis or even Andy Burnham he may have had problems at the election, against Corbyn and probably Hilary Benn he should win one term .'

    It is not accurate to say that ' Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power'.. Since World War 2 there have been three examples of the Chancellor moving next door to No 10 - Macmillan - Major - and Brown. On three other occasions the PM was succeeded by his Foreign Secretary - Eden - Home - and Callaghan (also a former Chancellor). Macmillan and Major were not toxic at the time and went on to win an election. Brown had become toxic and lost. Osborne is probably at least as toxic as Brown.I also believe that Hilary Benn would prove a far more formidable opponent to him than Burnham.- and indeed more so than Howard proved to be against Blair in 2005

    I realise that my estimation of Benn is currently inflated by his speech the other night, and one speech doesn't make a Prime Minister (etc etc), but even bearing that in mind I think he would clearly be a more formidable opponent than Umunna, Burnham and Corbyn. I don't think we know enough about Jarvis yet to be sure.
  • Options
    Wanderer said:

    2 points of interest not picked up by Harry .
    The No Description candidate in Hertford Heath is in fact the Conservative candidate but with no description due to a nomination error .
    Similarly as it seems to be Xmas , Darren Allanson , the no description candidate in Ryedale Derwent is in fact the Lib Dem candidate also with no party description due to a nomination error .

    It doesn't seem the highest recommendation for office does it?

    (Or is it notoriously complex? I've never done it.)
    Probably did not include the letter from party HQ giving permission to use the party's name.
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Wanderer said:

    2 points of interest not picked up by Harry .
    The No Description candidate in Hertford Heath is in fact the Conservative candidate but with no description due to a nomination error .
    Similarly as it seems to be Xmas , Darren Allanson , the no description candidate in Ryedale Derwent is in fact the Lib Dem candidate also with no party description due to a nomination error .

    It doesn't seem the highest recommendation for office does it?

    (Or is it notoriously complex? I've never done it.)
    When you hand in your nomination papers standing for a party you have to have an official letter from that party authorising you to stand for that party . If you have forgotten to bring that with you and have not left enough time to resubmit then the party description will not appear on the ballot paper . There are always a few cases of this happening every year .
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    Wanderer said:

    Cheers Harry. - “Ryedale elected a Liberal Alliance MP”

    My memory is not that long, were the Lib Alliance MPs a precursor to the Liberal Democrats?

    The SDP and Liberals had an electoral alliance before they merged after the 87 election.
    Thanks Mr Wanderer. Knew about the pact, but had forgotten about the Liberals formal change of name.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry for Osborne, but then he begins to seep into my pores and grow into my veins like a gangrenous, cancerous growth such is his general air of horribleness.

    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.
    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    Where your lightsaber then?
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    MikeK said:

    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    Where your lightsaber then?
    OGH has taught you well!
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,062

    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    I was just about to post about it. I won't mention any spoilers but amongst maybe 200 in the theatre there were three of us who sat through the entire end credits. It's an annoying habit of mine (as far as others are concerned) and I was quite amazed by how long they went on. There must have been thousands of people. And then finally at the very end we come to some special thanks....... There were about seven of these. The first of which was George Osborne. Not just George Osborne, but George Osborne Chancellor of the Exchequer and First Secretary of State of the United Kingdom. Next up was Ed Vaizey, Minister of Culture. If I'd had a light sabre to hand I would have been tempted to throw it at the screen. There was, alas, no mention of any Lib Dems. The poor sods written out of the picture again.

    Incidentally I remember an old fun poll that suggested that Lib Dems voters were the most keen on sci-fi. I can't imagine how much it must hurt. The force is clearly still not with them.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry for Osborne, but then he begins to seep into my pores and grow into my veins like a gangrenous, cancerous growth such is his general air of horribleness.

    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    I find that Osborne has a Machiavellian air that I quite like.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    justin124 said:


    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    'If Osborne stands he will probably get it, Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power, against a Chuka Umunna, Dan Jarvis or even Andy Burnham he may have had problems at the election, against Corbyn and probably Hilary Benn he should win one term .'

    It is not accurate to say that ' Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power'.. Since World War 2 there have been three examples of the Chancellor moving next door to No 10 - Macmillan - Major - and Brown. On three other occasions the PM was succeeded by his Foreign Secretary - Eden - Home - and Callaghan (also a former Chancellor). Macmillan and Major were not toxic at the time and went on to win an election. Brown had become toxic and lost. Osborne is probably at least as toxic as Brown.I also believe that Hilary Benn would prove a far more formidable opponent to him than Burnham.- and indeed more so than Howard proved to be against Blair in 2005

    Callaghan, as you say, was a former Chancellor, so 4/7 of those who became PM from an incumbent party were Chancellors or former Chancellors so I believe my point holds. Remember too that 2020 is actually the equivalent of 2005, ie the third election for the incumbent government not the 4th like 2010 and even Brown would have beaten Michael Howard in 2005 (he only became toxic after the 2008 crash). Corbyn is basically a Labour IDS, Benn a Labour Howard, he might provide Labour with a modest recovery as Howard boosted the Tory total a little but I would expect Osborne to still lead the largest party
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    Wanderer said:

    justin124 said:


    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    'If Osborne stands he will probably get it, Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power, against a Chuka Umunna, Dan Jarvis or even Andy Burnham he may have had problems at the election, against Corbyn and probably Hilary Benn he should win one term .'

    It is not accurate to say that ' Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power'.. Since World War 2 there have been three examples of the Chancellor moving next door to No 10 - Macmillan - Major - and Brown. On three other occasions the PM was succeeded by his Foreign Secretary - Eden - Home - and Callaghan (also a former Chancellor). Macmillan and Major were not toxic at the time and went on to win an election. Brown had become toxic and lost. Osborne is probably at least as toxic as Brown.I also believe that Hilary Benn would prove a far more formidable opponent to him than Burnham.- and indeed more so than Howard proved to be against Blair in 2005

    I realise that my estimation of Benn is currently inflated by his speech the other night, and one speech doesn't make a Prime Minister (etc etc), but even bearing that in mind I think he would clearly be a more formidable opponent than Umunna, Burnham and Corbyn. I don't think we know enough about Jarvis yet to be sure.
    Benn is a Michael Howard like figure, a safe pair of hands to save the furniture in 2020, Umunna and Jarvis are the potential election winners for 2025
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:


    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    'If Osborne stands he will probably get it, Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power, against a Chuka Umunna, Dan Jarvis or even Andy Burnham he may have had problems at the election, against Corbyn and probably Hilary Benn he should win one term .'

    It is not accurate to say that ' Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power'.. Since World War 2 there have been three examples of the Chancellor moving next door to No 10 - Macmillan - Major - and Brown. On three other occasions the PM was succeeded by his Foreign Secretary - Eden - Home - and Callaghan (also a former Chancellor). Macmillan and Major were not toxic at the time and went on to win an election. Brown had become toxic and lost. Osborne is probably at least as toxic as Brown.I also believe that Hilary Benn would prove a far more formidable opponent to him than Burnham.- and indeed more so than Howard proved to be against Blair in 2005

    Callaghan, as you say, was a former Chancellor, so 4/7 of those who became PM from an incumbent party were Chancellors or former Chancellors so I believe my point holds. Remember too that 2020 is actually the equivalent of 2005, ie the third election for the incumbent government not the 4th like 2010 and even Brown would have beaten Michael Howard in 2005 (he only became toxic after the 2008 crash). Corbyn is basically a Labour IDS, Benn a Labour Howard, he might provide Labour with a modest recovery as Howard boosted the Tory total a little but I would expect Osborne to still lead the largest party
    Ah. But (shades of pre-May 7th) Tories as largest party is not the same thing as Tories in office.
  • Options
    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry for Osborne, but then he begins to seep into my pores and grow into my veins like a gangrenous, cancerous growth such is his general air of horribleness.

    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    Surely you don't actually believe that? I'm not the biggest fan of the Tories, but I don't actually believe that they are evil, or only in it to line the pockets of themselves and their capitalist friends. I think they're doing what they think is right for the country, the same as Labour and the vast majority of mainstream politicians. I genuinely find such politically zealous sentiments such as yours (presuming you're not taking the piss, and I've got the wrong end of the stick) unnerving.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    Wanderer said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:


    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    'If Osborne stands he will probably get it, Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power, against a Chuka Umunna, Dan Jarvis or even Andy Burnham he may have had problems at the election, against Corbyn and probably Hilary Benn he should win one term .'

    It is not accurate to say that ' Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power'.. Since World War 2 there have been three examples of the Chancellor moving next door to No 10 - Macmillan - Major - and Brown. On three other occasions the PM was succeeded by his Foreign Secretary - Eden - Home - and Callaghan (also a former Chancellor). Macmillan and Major were not toxic at the time and went on to win an election. Brown had become toxic and lost. Osborne is probably at least as toxic as Brown.I also believe that Hilary Benn would prove a far more formidable opponent to him than Burnham.- and indeed more so than Howard proved to be against Blair in 2005

    Callaghan, as you say, was a former Chancellor, so 4/7 of those who became PM from an incumbent party were Chancellors or former Chancellors so I believe my point holds. Remember too that 2020 is actually the equivalent of 2005, ie the third election for the incumbent government not the 4th like 2010 and even Brown would have beaten Michael Howard in 2005 (he only became toxic after the 2008 crash). Corbyn is basically a Labour IDS, Benn a Labour Howard, he might provide Labour with a modest recovery as Howard boosted the Tory total a little but I would expect Osborne to still lead the largest party
    Ah. But (shades of pre-May 7th) Tories as largest party is not the same thing as Tories in office.
    With the backing of the DUP and UKIP it probably is and Benn would not do a deal with the SNP though Corbyn might he would not have the numbers
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,316
    Wanderer said:

    justin124 said:


    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    'If Osborne stands he will probably get it, Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power, against a Chuka Umunna, Dan Jarvis or even Andy Burnham he may have had problems at the election, against Corbyn and probably Hilary Benn he should win one term .'

    It is not accurate to say that ' Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power'.. Since World War 2 there have been three examples of the Chancellor moving next door to No 10 - Macmillan - Major - and Brown. On three other occasions the PM was succeeded by his Foreign Secretary - Eden - Home - and Callaghan (also a former Chancellor). Macmillan and Major were not toxic at the time and went on to win an election. Brown had become toxic and lost. Osborne is probably at least as toxic as Brown.I also believe that Hilary Benn would prove a far more formidable opponent to him than Burnham.- and indeed more so than Howard proved to be against Blair in 2005

    I realise that my estimation of Benn is currently inflated by his speech the other night, and one speech doesn't make a Prime Minister (etc etc), but even bearing that in mind I think he would clearly be a more formidable opponent than Umunna, Burnham and Corbyn. I don't think we know enough about Jarvis yet to be sure.
    Absolutely right.

    Forget all policies - just watching and listening to Benn he sounds authoritative and has the necessary gravitas.

    He's way ahead of Umunna, Burnham and Corbyn in this respect.

    The number 1 option for Lab would be Johnson by a clear margin but Benn is a strong PM candidate.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited December 2015
    HYUFD said:

    Wanderer said:

    justin124 said:


    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    'If Osborne stands he will probably get it, Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power, against a Chuka Umunna, Dan Jarvis or even Andy Burnham he may have had problems at the election, against Corbyn and probably Hilary Benn he should win one term .'

    It is not accurate to say that ' Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power'.. Since World War 2 there have been three examples of the Chancellor moving next door to No 10 - Macmillan - Major - and Brown. On three other occasions the PM was succeeded by his Foreign Secretary - Eden - Home - and Callaghan (also a former Chancellor). Macmillan and Major were not toxic at the time and went on to win an election. Brown had become toxic and lost. Osborne is probably at least as toxic as Brown.I also believe that Hilary Benn would prove a far more formidable opponent to him than Burnham.- and indeed more so than Howard proved to be against Blair in 2005

    I realise that my estimation of Benn is currently inflated by his speech the other night, and one speech doesn't make a Prime Minister (etc etc), but even bearing that in mind I think he would clearly be a more formidable opponent than Umunna, Burnham and Corbyn. I don't think we know enough about Jarvis yet to be sure.
    Benn is a Michael Howard like figure, a safe pair of hands to save the furniture in 2020, Umunna and Jarvis are the potential election winners for 2025
    That's probably right about Benn but I think a safe/solid candidate could win for Labour in 2020. (All hypothetical now.)

    I think Jarvis might be a future winner. Umunna doesn't seem like a serious politician to me.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    And much like Mandelson and Cardinal Richelieu too. History is littered with Osbornes- scheming, highly intelligent, unattractive, addicted to power freaks. They make your toe curl- but as you say, there is something rather intriguing and enticing about them.

    As a lefty, I am jealous. I wish Osborne was on our side. We need people like him, especially at this time...... especially at this time.
    Wanderer said:

    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry for Osborne, but then he begins to seep into my pores and grow into my veins like a gangrenous, cancerous growth such is his general air of horribleness.

    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    I find that Osborne has a Machiavellian air that I quite like.
  • Options

    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    I was just about to post about it. I won't mention any spoilers but amongst maybe 200 in the theatre there were three of us who sat through the entire end credits. It's an annoying habit of mine (as far as others are concerned) and I was quite amazed by how long they went on. There must have been thousands of people. And then finally at the very end we come to some special thanks....... There were about seven of these. The first of which was George Osborne. Not just George Osborne, but George Osborne Chancellor of the Exchequer and First Secretary of State of the United Kingdom. Next up was Ed Vaizey, Minister of Culture. If I'd had a light sabre to hand I would have been tempted to throw it at the screen. There was, alas, no mention of any Lib Dems. The poor sods written out of the picture again.

    Incidentally I remember an old fun poll that suggested that Lib Dems voters were the most keen on sci-fi. I can't imagine how much it must hurt. The force is clearly still not with them.
    I saw through the end credits too - but I didn't catch the mentions of Osborne and Vaizey! I see it again at Leicester Square in a couple of weeks.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    Any good railway scenes?
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    Benn is clutching at straws at best. Jarvis is clutching at straws too. Chukka- not even clutching at straws.

    Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband destroyed the Labour party through their stupid egos and ambition- both were seriously unsuited for leadership. I kind of forgive Gordon Brown, just...but Ed Miliband, I just hope that I never have to see him do anything of note again such is the contempt I hold for him.

    The Labour party is a busted flush.
    HYUFD said:

    Wanderer said:

    justin124 said:


    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    'If Osborne stands he will probably get it, Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power, against a Chuka Umunna, Dan Jarvis or even Andy Burnham he may have had problems at the election, against Corbyn and probably Hilary Benn he should win one term .'

    It is not accurate to say that ' Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power'.. Since World War 2 there have been three examples of the Chancellor moving next door to No 10 - Macmillan - Major - and Brown. On three other occasions the PM was succeeded by his Foreign Secretary - Eden - Home - and Callaghan (also a former Chancellor). Macmillan and Major were not toxic at the time and went on to win an election. Brown had become toxic and lost. Osborne is probably at least as toxic as Brown.I also believe that Hilary Benn would prove a far more formidable opponent to him than Burnham.- and indeed more so than Howard proved to be against Blair in 2005

    I realise that my estimation of Benn is currently inflated by his speech the other night, and one speech doesn't make a Prime Minister (etc etc), but even bearing that in mind I think he would clearly be a more formidable opponent than Umunna, Burnham and Corbyn. I don't think we know enough about Jarvis yet to be sure.
    Benn is a Michael Howard like figure, a safe pair of hands to save the furniture in 2020, Umunna and Jarvis are the potential election winners for 2025
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    edited December 2015
    Wanderer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wanderer said:

    justin124 said:


    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    'If Osborne stands he will probably get it, Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power, against a Chuka Umunna, Dan Jarvis or even Andy Burnham he may have had problems at the election, against Corbyn and probably Hilary Benn he should win one term .'

    It is not accurate to say that ' Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power'.. Since World War 2 there have been three examples of the Chancellor moving next door to No 10 - Macmillan - Major - and Brown. On three other occasions the PM was succeeded by his Foreign Secretary - Eden - Home - and Callaghan (also a former Chancellor). Macmillan and Major were not toxic at the time and went on to win an election. Brown had become toxic and lost. Osborne is probably at least as toxic as Brown.I also believe that Hilary Benn would prove a far more formidable opponent to him than Burnham.- and indeed more so than Howard proved to be against Blair in 2005

    I realise that my estimation of Benn is currently inflated by his speech the other night, and one speech doesn't make a Prime Minister (etc etc), but even bearing that in mind I think he would clearly be a more formidable opponent than Umunna, Burnham and Corbyn. I don't think we know enough about Jarvis yet to be sure.
    Benn is a Michael Howard like figure, a safe pair of hands to save the furniture in 2020, Umunna and Jarvis are the potential election winners for 2025
    That's probably right about Benn but I think a safe/solid candidate could win for Labour in 2020. (All hypothetical now.)

    I think Jarvis might be a future winner. Umunna doesn't seem like a serious politician to me.
    Labour's chance to pick an election winner for 2020 has been and gone as you suggest, it is about trying to minimise the damage now. Jarvis is OK but Umunna is more articulate and telegenic
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    Stourport is a delicious by-election. Don't forget, 'It is not who wins, it is what is the swing!'
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    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    Any good railway scenes?
    Not railways, but much train-ing :lol:
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    I was just about to post about it. I won't mention any spoilers but amongst maybe 200 in the theatre there were three of us who sat through the entire end credits. It's an annoying habit of mine (as far as others are concerned) and I was quite amazed by how long they went on. There must have been thousands of people. And then finally at the very end we come to some special thanks....... There were about seven of these. The first of which was George Osborne. Not just George Osborne, but George Osborne Chancellor of the Exchequer and First Secretary of State of the United Kingdom. Next up was Ed Vaizey, Minister of Culture. If I'd had a light sabre to hand I would have been tempted to throw it at the screen. There was, alas, no mention of any Lib Dems. The poor sods written out of the picture again.

    Incidentally I remember an old fun poll that suggested that Lib Dems voters were the most keen on sci-fi. I can't imagine how much it must hurt. The force is clearly still not with them.
    Speaking of end credits, the first Lord of the Rings movie end credits ran something like 17 minutes.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Rather delicious look of disgust on Emily Thornberry's face then when David Dimbleby referenced *that* Tweet.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048

    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    I was just about to post about it. I won't mention any spoilers but amongst maybe 200 in the theatre there were three of us who sat through the entire end credits. It's an annoying habit of mine (as far as others are concerned) and I was quite amazed by how long they went on. There must have been thousands of people. And then finally at the very end we come to some special thanks....... There were about seven of these. The first of which was George Osborne. Not just George Osborne, but George Osborne Chancellor of the Exchequer and First Secretary of State of the United Kingdom. Next up was Ed Vaizey, Minister of Culture.
    That is simply fantastic. And at least the man gets top billing somewhere, even if it is in the special thanks section of a film credits sequence.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    edited December 2015
    I wonder what could be quite more boring to sit through- a James Bond movie, a star wars, or any kids sic fi movie for that matter, a pirates of a Caribbean movie, a pixar movie, a catholic wedding, or sat at the airport waiting 2 hours for a flight. At least with the flight I could bring a book and read along quite happily.

    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    I was just about to post about it. I won't mention any spoilers but amongst maybe 200 in the theatre there were three of us who sat through the entire end credits. It's an annoying habit of mine (as far as others are concerned) and I was quite amazed by how long they went on. There must have been thousands of people. And then finally at the very end we come to some special thanks....... There were about seven of these. The first of which was George Osborne. Not just George Osborne, but George Osborne Chancellor of the Exchequer and First Secretary of State of the United Kingdom. Next up was Ed Vaizey, Minister of Culture. If I'd had a light sabre to hand I would have been tempted to throw it at the screen. There was, alas, no mention of any Lib Dems. The poor sods written out of the picture again.

    Incidentally I remember an old fun poll that suggested that Lib Dems voters were the most keen on sci-fi. I can't imagine how much it must hurt. The force is clearly still not with them.
    I saw through the end credits too - but I didn't catch the mentions of Osborne and Vaizey! I see it again at Leicester Square in a couple of weeks.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    tyson said:

    And much like Mandelson and Cardinal Richelieu too. History is littered with Osbornes- scheming, highly intelligent, unattractive, addicted to power freaks. They make your toe curl- but as you say, there is something rather intriguing and enticing about them.

    As a lefty, I am jealous. I wish Osborne was on our side. We need people like him, especially at this time...... especially at this time.

    Wanderer said:

    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry for Osborne, but then he begins to seep into my pores and grow into my veins like a gangrenous, cancerous growth such is his general air of horribleness.

    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    I find that Osborne has a Machiavellian air that I quite like.
    I thought that was what Watson was for?
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    Thirst.

    Thanks (Harry, I assume?)

    Gogarth looks an interesting result on the Labour to Conservative swing, except as is often the case with locals, the lack of a candidate (independent in this case) skewed matters.

    Each week, the Tory party update me on all by-elections since GE. Tories up 1%, Labour down 6%. So, 3.5% swing. Last nigh was even bigger but you will get wild variations. Let's see what happens tonight.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    tyson said:

    I wonder what could be quite more boring to sit through- a James Bond movie, a star wars, or any kids sic fi movie for that matter, a pirates of a Caribbean movie, a pixar movie, a catholic wedding, or sat at the airport waiting 2 hours for a flight. At least with the flight I could bring a book and read along quite happily.

    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    I was just about to post about it. I won't mention any spoilers but amongst maybe 200 in the theatre there were three of us who sat through the entire end credits. It's an annoying habit of mine (as far as others are concerned) and I was quite amazed by how long they went on. There must have been thousands of people. And then finally at the very end we come to some special thanks....... There were about seven of these. The first of which was George Osborne. Not just George Osborne, but George Osborne Chancellor of the Exchequer and First Secretary of State of the United Kingdom. Next up was Ed Vaizey, Minister of Culture. If I'd had a light sabre to hand I would have been tempted to throw it at the screen. There was, alas, no mention of any Lib Dems. The poor sods written out of the picture again.

    Incidentally I remember an old fun poll that suggested that Lib Dems voters were the most keen on sci-fi. I can't imagine how much it must hurt. The force is clearly still not with them.
    I saw through the end credits too - but I didn't catch the mentions of Osborne and Vaizey! I see it again at Leicester Square in a couple of weeks.
    Taking the question utterly seriously, the answer is Catholic wedding. Those movies will usually have explosions or other action scenes which, even if one does not like them, will at least keep you awake, and as you say with the waiting for a flight you can bring along your own entertainment, whereas with the wedding you have to focus on the matter at hand.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry for Osborne, but then he begins to seep into my pores and grow into my veins like a gangrenous, cancerous growth such is his general air of horribleness.

    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    FWIW, in person he's a lot nicer than Cameron
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    tyson said:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/17/osborne-hands-advisers-big-pay-rises-while-freezing-public-sector-wages


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    The thing is about this current crop of Tories- with the fracking, the environmental hooliganism, the bullying of the BBC and the House of Lords- they know they are a bunch of self serving shytebags and they don't care. You have to admire them for that I guess. Go Tories- they don't believe in anything other than making money. The political equivalent of Millwall fans.

    Looking at the "before and after" pictures in that article.... am I alone in thinking Osborne looked better BEFORE his makeover?

    Sure, when his face was chubbier, he looked like the archetype of a "toff". But now, for some reason a thinner face makes him look at Bond villain-levels of evil.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    I thought Watson was there for that kind of wheeling and dealing intrigue too. He doesn't seem up to to it though- not by a long mark. Len McCluskey is the biggest power broker Labour have- and that is just a really sad reflection of things.
    kle4 said:

    tyson said:

    And much like Mandelson and Cardinal Richelieu too. History is littered with Osbornes- scheming, highly intelligent, unattractive, addicted to power freaks. They make your toe curl- but as you say, there is something rather intriguing and enticing about them.

    As a lefty, I am jealous. I wish Osborne was on our side. We need people like him, especially at this time...... especially at this time.

    Wanderer said:

    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry for Osborne, but then he begins to seep into my pores and grow into my veins like a gangrenous, cancerous growth such is his general air of horribleness.

    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    I find that Osborne has a Machiavellian air that I quite like.
    I thought that was what Watson was for?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    Charles said:

    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry for Osborne, but then he begins to seep into my pores and grow into my veins like a gangrenous, cancerous growth such is his general air of horribleness.

    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    FWIW, in person he's a lot nicer than Cameron
    Is he the nicest person in the Cabinet? I believe NPXMP has praised Oliver Letwin in that regard.
  • Options
    tyson said:

    I wonder what could be quite more boring to sit through- a James Bond movie, a star wars, or any kids sic fi movie for that matter, a pirates of a Caribbean movie, a pixar movie, a catholic wedding, or sat at the airport waiting 2 hours for a flight. At least with the flight I could bring a book and read along quite happily.

    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    I was just about to post about it. I won't mention any spoilers but amongst maybe 200 in the theatre there were three of us who sat through the entire end credits. It's an annoying habit of mine (as far as others are concerned) and I was quite amazed by how long they went on. There must have been thousands of people. And then finally at the very end we come to some special thanks....... There were about seven of these. The first of which was George Osborne. Not just George Osborne, but George Osborne Chancellor of the Exchequer and First Secretary of State of the United Kingdom. Next up was Ed Vaizey, Minister of Culture. If I'd had a light sabre to hand I would have been tempted to throw it at the screen. There was, alas, no mention of any Lib Dems. The poor sods written out of the picture again.

    Incidentally I remember an old fun poll that suggested that Lib Dems voters were the most keen on sci-fi. I can't imagine how much it must hurt. The force is clearly still not with them.
    I saw through the end credits too - but I didn't catch the mentions of Osborne and Vaizey! I see it again at Leicester Square in a couple of weeks.
    How about sitting through two hours of your vitriolic posts!
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry for Osborne, but then he begins to seep into my pores and grow into my veins like a gangrenous, cancerous growth such is his general air of horribleness.

    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    FWIW, in person he's a lot nicer than Cameron
    Is he the nicest person in the Cabinet? I believe NPXMP has praised Oliver Letwin in that regard.
    That was more of a trolling nod to Oliver Leftwing's politics than any genuine praise.

    But as has been demonstrated over recent months, nothing said by NPxMP can be taken at face value.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    Charles- I'm on a downer today with the Tories because of the fracking stuff, as well as the attack on renewables. I just hate the fact that us human beings have to uglify our environment and destroy our ecosystem through the pursuit of a buck.

    But, re Osborne- I actually get him a bit. More than Cameron who, although charismatic, I find increasingly shallow and obnoxious.
    Charles said:

    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry for Osborne, but then he begins to seep into my pores and grow into my veins like a gangrenous, cancerous growth such is his general air of horribleness.

    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    FWIW, in person he's a lot nicer than Cameron
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Reckless being sane on QT.

    Why did he have that moment of madness.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    tyson said:

    Benn is clutching at straws at best. Jarvis is clutching at straws too. Chukka- not even clutching at straws.

    Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband destroyed the Labour party through their stupid egos and ambition- both were seriously unsuited for leadership. I kind of forgive Gordon Brown, just...but Ed Miliband, I just hope that I never have to see him do anything of note again such is the contempt I hold for him.

    The Labour party is a busted flush.

    HYUFD said:

    Wanderer said:

    justin124 said:


    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    'If Osborne stands he will probably get it, Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power, against a Chuka Umunna, Dan Jarvis or even Andy Burnham he may have had problems at the election, against Corbyn and probably Hilary Benn he should win one term .'

    It is not accurate to say that ' Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power'.. Since World War 2 there have been three examples of the Chancellor moving next door to No 10 - Macmillan - Major - and Brown. On three other occasions the PM was succeeded by his Foreign Secretary - Eden - Home - and Callaghan (also a former Chancellor). Macmillan and Major were not toxic at the time and went on to win an election. Brown had become toxic and lost. Osborne is probably at least as toxic as Brown.I also believe that Hilary Benn would prove a far more formidable opponent to him than Burnham.- and indeed more so than Howard proved to be against Blair in 2005

    I realise that my estimation of Benn is currently inflated by his speech the other night, and one speech doesn't make a Prime Minister (etc etc), but even bearing that in mind I think he would clearly be a more formidable opponent than Umunna, Burnham and Corbyn. I don't think we know enough about Jarvis yet to be sure.
    Benn is a Michael Howard like figure, a safe pair of hands to save the furniture in 2020, Umunna and Jarvis are the potential election winners for 2025
    I remember the Sun portraying the Tories under Hague as a dead parrot never to return to power again, the pendulum will return and eventually people will want an alternative party in power again but it will probably not be for another decade
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    tyson said:

    I wonder what could be quite more boring to sit through- a James Bond movie, a star wars, or any kids sic fi movie for that matter, a pirates of a Caribbean movie, a pixar movie, a catholic wedding, or sat at the airport waiting 2 hours for a flight. At least with the flight I could bring a book and read along quite happily.

    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    I was just about to post about it. I won't mention any spoilers but amongst maybe 200 in the theatre there were three of us who sat through the entire end credits. It's an annoying habit of mine (as far as others are concerned) and I was quite amazed by how long they went on. There must have been thousands of people. And then finally at the very end we come to some special thanks....... There were about seven of these. The first of which was George Osborne. Not just George Osborne, but George Osborne Chancellor of the Exchequer and First Secretary of State of the United Kingdom. Next up was Ed Vaizey, Minister of Culture. If I'd had a light sabre to hand I would have been tempted to throw it at the screen. There was, alas, no mention of any Lib Dems. The poor sods written out of the picture again.

    Incidentally I remember an old fun poll that suggested that Lib Dems voters were the most keen on sci-fi. I can't imagine how much it must hurt. The force is clearly still not with them.
    I saw through the end credits too - but I didn't catch the mentions of Osborne and Vaizey! I see it again at Leicester Square in a couple of weeks.
    Must be a lot of boring people then given this Star Wars film is set to be the biggest earning movie of all time
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    Wanderer said:

    My mother's family are from Ryedale. I remember the 1986 by-election and people (now long dead of course) reminiscing about voting for Lloyd George.

    Quite a lot of folk have an "I once met someone who voted for Lloyd George" anecdote.

    I doubt that a century hence, "I once met someone who voted for Anthony Blair" will be as good.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Hertford Heath Con ( No Desc ) hold

    Con 269
    LDem 101
    UKIP 70
    Lab 56
    Green 21
  • Options
    Hertford Heath first by-election announced. Tory win. 4.2% Lab to Con. Forget the other parties, they only 2 that count. Close to average of 3.5% since GE.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    TGOHF said:

    Reckless being sane on QT.

    Why did he have that moment of madness.

    In hindsight defecting to UKIP in a non-target seat was really stupid. He would have been more useful as a Tory. Instead they are now stuck with Kelly Tolhurst.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry for Osborne, but then he begins to seep into my pores and grow into my veins like a gangrenous, cancerous growth such is his general air of horribleness.

    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    FWIW, in person he's a lot nicer than Cameron
    Is he the nicest person in the Cabinet? I believe NPXMP has praised Oliver Letwin in that regard.
    Not met Letwin, although he has the reputation for being as nice as a befuddled academic. George is a genuinely nice guy with decent sense of human. I want to like Hunt - I think he's nice - but just a bit too smarmy for my taste
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Mogg just pwned the SNP nippy sweetie .
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tyson said:

    Charles- I'm on a downer today with the Tories because of the fracking stuff, as well as the attack on renewables. I just hate the fact that us human beings have to uglify our environment and destroy our ecosystem through the pursuit of a buck.

    But, re Osborne- I actually get him a bit. More than Cameron who, although charismatic, I find increasingly shallow and obnoxious.

    Charles said:

    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry for Osborne, but then he begins to seep into my pores and grow into my veins like a gangrenous, cancerous growth such is his general air of horribleness.

    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    FWIW, in person he's a lot nicer than Cameron
    A mate of mine is heavily involved in shale oil / fracking in the US (he's a hard core Democrat and environmentalist. Which, admittedly, is odd for a Texan real estate and oil mogul). Done right it's perfectly safe, and with only limited impact on the visual environment
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    edited December 2015
    I don't quite see the affection with kids stuff. Star War is a kids movie.... I could not imagine sitting through kids daytime TV for 2 hours. So sitting at an airport with a good novel is a better way for me to spend 2 hours.

    That said, I don't think I ever managed to get my full way through a cartoon from start to finish ever- except Bambi which I was dragged too. I also never believed in God, always found the concept of praying stupid and so forth. I'm just a cynical so and so, and really cannot get into the flow of enjoying this kind of stuff. My loss almost certainly.

    tyson said:

    I wonder what could be quite more boring to sit through- a James Bond movie, a star wars, or any kids sic fi movie for that matter, a pirates of a Caribbean movie, a pixar movie, a catholic wedding, or sat at the airport waiting 2 hours for a flight. At least with the flight I could bring a book and read along quite happily.

    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    I was just about to post about it. I won't mention any spoilers but amongst maybe 200 in the theatre there were three of us who sat through the entire end credits. It's an annoying habit of mine (as far as others are concerned) and I was quite amazed by how long they went on. There must have been thousands of people. And then finally at the very end we come to some special thanks....... There were about seven of these. The first of which was George Osborne. Not just George Osborne, but George Osborne Chancellor of the Exchequer and First Secretary of State of the United Kingdom. Next up was Ed Vaizey, Minister of Culture. If I'd had a light sabre to hand I would have been tempted to throw it at the screen. There was, alas, no mention of any Lib Dems. The poor sods written out of the picture again.

    Incidentally I remember an old fun poll that suggested that Lib Dems voters were the most keen on sci-fi. I can't imagine how much it must hurt. The force is clearly still not with them.
    I saw through the end credits too - but I didn't catch the mentions of Osborne and Vaizey! I see it again at Leicester Square in a couple of weeks.
    How about sitting through two hours of your vitriolic posts!
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    DaveDee said:

    Hertford Heath first by-election announced. Tory win. 4.2% Lab to Con. Forget the other parties, they only 2 that count. Close to average of 3.5% since GE.

    The swing was not 4.2% from Lab to Con . The Independent candidate in May was in fact an Ind Conservative ( in fact the sitting Conservative councillor ) The Conservative vote share in this ward is usually 70% plus as in 2003 and 2011 and in 2007 unopposed .
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    edited December 2015
    Kensal Green turnout 20.3%
    Stourport turnout 16.6% over half of which were postal votes
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    edited December 2015
    tyson said:

    I don't quite see the affection with kids stuff. Star War is a kids movie

    tyson said:

    I wonder what could be quite more boring to sit through- a James Bond movie, a star wars, or any kids sic fi movie for that matter, a pirates of a Caribbean movie, a pixar movie, a catholic wedding, or sat at the airport waiting 2 hours for a flight. At least with the flight I could bring a book and read along quite happily.

    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    I was just
    I saw through the end credits too - but I didn't catch the mentions of Osborne and Vaizey! I see it again at Leicester Square in a couple of weeks.
    How about sitting through two hours of your vitriolic posts!
    As the trailers before the movie made clear.

    But it's the difference between being a kids movie and a family movie, or simply a good kids movie. The latter two provide enough adult level drama or themes to keep adults entertained without boring the kids, who may not even notice or care about the things the adults are enjoying.

    I don't know of any kids TV shows which would work for adults as well, except I suppose The Simpsons and Futurama, that sort of thing (but nothing I can think of for very young kids), but the balance with movies tends to be pretty decent, with a lot of kid focused options that still appeal to adults.

    Personally my issue is I quite like a lot of animated films, and while adults are supposed to enjoy them, I still worry about getting odd looks showing up as a single, shadily bearded late 20s man - a colleague of mine had a similar problem where they wanted to see a new release when their young niece was visiting, but the child didn't want to see it. Inside Out was getting potential oscar buzz, so I figured it was acceptable.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry for Osborne, but then he begins to seep into my pores and grow into my veins like a gangrenous, cancerous growth such is his general air of horribleness.

    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    FWIW, in person he's a lot nicer than Cameron
    Is he the nicest person in the Cabinet? I believe NPXMP has praised Oliver Letwin in that regard.
    Not met Letwin, although he has the reputation for being as nice as a befuddled academic. George is a genuinely nice guy with decent sense of human. I want to like Hunt - I think he's nice - but just a bit too smarmy for my taste
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry for Osborne, but then he begins to seep into my pores and grow into my veins like a gangrenous, cancerous growth such is his general air of horribleness.

    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    FWIW, in person he's a lot nicer than Cameron
    Is he the nicest person in the Cabinet? I believe NPXMP has praised Oliver Letwin in that regard.
    Not met Letwin, although he has the reputation for being as nice as a befuddled academic. George is a genuinely nice guy with decent sense of human. I want to like Hunt - I think he's nice - but just a bit too smarmy for my taste
    Greg Clarke, Jeremy Wright and Michael Gove are also quite pleasant. I do believe though one Tory aide when discussing with his colleague the difficulties he had working with Cameron said it could have been worse 'he could have been working for George Osborne'
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    LOL @ the woman on QT claiming that bombing Syria will cost £100,000. Strong grasp of the real world.
  • Options

    DaveDee said:

    Hertford Heath first by-election announced. Tory win. 4.2% Lab to Con. Forget the other parties, they only 2 that count. Close to average of 3.5% since GE.

    The swing was not 4.2% from Lab to Con . The Independent candidate in May was in fact an Ind Conservative ( in fact the sitting Conservative councillor ) The Conservative vote share in this ward is usually 70% plus as in 2003 and 2011 and in 2007 unopposed .
    Interesting. Others said he cocked up his form and was a tory. Well, well, well.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry
    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    FWIW, in person he's a lot nicer than Cameron
    Is he the nicest person in the Cabinet? I believe NPXMP has praised Oliver Letwin in that regard.
    Not met Letwin, although he has the reputation for being as nice as a befuddled academic. George is a genuinely nice guy with decent sense of human. I want to like Hunt - I think he's nice - but just a bit too smarmy for my taste
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry for Osborne, but then he begins to seep into my pores and grow into my veins like a gangrenous, cancerous growth such is his general air of horribleness.

    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    FWIW, in person he's a lot nicer than Cameron
    Is he the nicest person in the Cabinet? I believe NPXMP has praised Oliver Letwin in that regard.
    Not met Letwin, although he has the reputation for being as nice as a befuddled academic. George is a genuinely nice guy with decent sense of human. I want to like Hunt - I think he's nice - but just a bit too smarmy for my taste
    Greg Clarke, Jeremy Wright and Michael Gove are also quite pleasant. I do believe though one Tory aide when discussing with his colleague the difficulties he had working with Cameron said it could have been worse 'he could have been working for George Osborne'

    I do wonder if Greg Clarke has Majorish like ability - came across very well on QT last week...
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    Dominique Strauss-Kahn had a secret love child while he was head of the International Monetary Fund and still married to multi-millionaire art heiress Anne Sinclair, it has emerged.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3365020/Dominique-Strauss-Kahn-secret-love-child-IMF-chief-married-multi-millionaire-art-heiress.html

    Blow me down....
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    edited December 2015
    Con gain Stourport after bundle check recount

    Con 763 IHC 725 others to follow
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    Tories gain Stourport apparently
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    edited December 2015
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry
    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    FWIW, in person he's a lot nicer than Cameron
    Is he the nicest person in the Cabinet? I believe NPXMP has praised Oliver Letwin in that regard.
    Not met Letwin, although he has the reputation for being as nice as a befuddled academic. George is a genuinely nice guy with decent sense of human. I want to like Hunt - I think he's nice - but just a bit too smarmy for my taste
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    tyson said:

    Seriously, Pulpstar- I really almost do feel sorry for Osborne, but then he begins to seep into my pores and grow into my veins like a gangrenous, cancerous growth such is his general air of horribleness.

    Gordon Brown was skin crawlingly unlikeable but his heart was in a good place--Osborne has all that insipid lack of charisma oozing from him, but he strikes me as an unpleasant and genuinely nasty specimen to boot.

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:


    You know I could almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a piece of vile, hypocritical, unlikeable, putrid piece of Tory pondlife.

    Come on Tyson, tell us what you REALLY THINK !
    FWIW, in person he's a lot nicer than Cameron
    Is he the nicest person in the Cabinet? I believe NPXMP has praised Oliver Letwin in that regard.
    Not met Letwin, although he has the reputation for being as nice as a befuddled academic. George is a genuinely nice guy with decent sense of human. I want to like Hunt - I think he's nice - but just a bit too smarmy for my taste
    Greg Clarke, Jeremy Wright and Michael Gove are also quOsborne'

    I do wonder if Greg Clarke has Majorish like ability - came across very well on QT last week...
    Yes he is my present MP and very affable in person, son of a milkman who went to Cambridge
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    Labour hold Kensal Green in Brent
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Dominique Strauss-Kahn had a secret love child while he was head of the International Monetary Fund and still married to multi-millionaire art heiress Anne Sinclair, it has emerged.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3365020/Dominique-Strauss-Kahn-secret-love-child-IMF-chief-married-multi-millionaire-art-heiress.html

    Blow me down....

    a large return on a small deposit
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Full Stourport result

    Con 763 IHC 725 Lab 581 UKIP 547 Green 42
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    Lab to Con swing In Stourport - 5%.
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    Stourport turnout 16.6% over half of which were postal votes

    Con gain Stourport after bundle check recount

    Con 763 IHC 725 others to follow

    Farage & PB Tories will be demanding an enquiry.
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    DaveDee said:

    Lab to Con swing In Stourport - 5%.

    Corbynism sweeping the nation....
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    Yes, it's good to see. Oldham was a setback for us Blues, but hopefully just a blip.

    DaveDee said:

    Lab to Con swing In Stourport - 5%.

    Corbynism sweeping the nation....
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956


    Stourport turnout 16.6% over half of which were postal votes

    Con gain Stourport after bundle check recount

    Con 763 IHC 725 others to follow

    Farage & PB Tories will be demanding an enquiry.
    You jest, but there is no way that so many electors couldn't get to the polls today. The whole postal vote system is ridiculous - just because you want one shouldn't be enough to get one...
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    DaveDee said:

    Lab to Con swing In Stourport - 5%.

    Not quite , that is the swing from the May 2013 result not the June 2013 by election
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    LOL. Treaty change at some unknown point in the future. Translation: Never.

    https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/677628206258782209
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    sladeslade Posts: 1,940
    Re. Kensal Green - would you vote for someone called Jumbo Chan? Or am I being sizeist?
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Brent result

    Lab 931
    LDem 417
    Con 255
    Green 102
    UKIP 38
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    MP_SE said:

    LOL. Treaty change at some unknown point in the future. Translation: Never.

    https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/677628206258782209

    Quite. Something will always come up which means it will have to be delayed, leaving us in limbo. Best to just vote as soon as possible and get it over with, as soon as possible, on the basis of what we have now and are expecting now, assuming nothing is granted.

    Good night.
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    sladeslade Posts: 1,940

    Brent result

    Lab 931
    LDem 417
    Con 255
    Green 102
    UKIP 38

    The electors obviously did not fancy Chan, Jaffar and Nibbs.
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    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited December 2015
    Wanderer said:

    My mother's family are from Ryedale. I remember the 1986 by-election and people (now long dead of course) reminiscing about voting for Lloyd George.

    I am pondering what the best "I met someone who voted for ..." anecdote is on this site? Lots of very experienced canvassers out there.

    Gladstone was still leading the Liberals into the 1892 election. Plenty of Gladstone voters would still have been alive in the 1950s, and a few into the 1960s. There are a few folk on this site who would have been politically active then, and will have trudged a few doorsteps... I wonder.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Mortimer said:


    Stourport turnout 16.6% over half of which were postal votes

    Con gain Stourport after bundle check recount

    Con 763 IHC 725 others to follow

    Farage & PB Tories will be demanding an enquiry.
    You jest, but there is no way that so many electors couldn't get to the polls today. The whole postal vote system is ridiculous - just because you want one shouldn't be enough to get one...
    Better to abandon postal voting and instead have early voting for a couple of weeks before the election.
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    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited December 2015
    On a similar note, anyone who canvassed in Liverpool even a few decades ago might well (not even sure it'd be odds-against) have found a former voter or two for T. P. O'Connor who won Liverpool Scotland for the Irish Nationalists as late as 1929.
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    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    Benn is clutching at straws at best. Jarvis is clutching at straws too. Chukka- not even clutching at straws.

    Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband destroyed the Labour party through their stupid egos and ambition- both were seriously unsuited for leadership. I kind of forgive Gordon Brown, just...but Ed Miliband, I just hope that I never have to see him do anything of note again such is the contempt I hold for him.

    The Labour party is a busted flush.

    HYUFD said:

    Wanderer said:

    justin124 said:


    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes

    Benn is a Michael Howard like figure, a safe pair of hands to save the furniture in 2020, Umunna and Jarvis are the potential election winners for 2025

    I remember the Sun portraying the Tories under Hague as a dead parrot never to return to power again, the pendulum will return and eventually people will want an alternative party in power again but it will probably not be for another decade
    The 'Pendulum' does swing and it will again, if for nothing more than the desire for change, or accumulation of preserved grievances against the party in power.

    However fore a combination of resonese I'm not confidant it will be the Labour party that replaces them, while it may not look lick it at the moment, I think we could have a Lib Dem, UKIP, Green, or possibly a new party all together before we have Labour back in power. Ill give a brief brake down why I think that labours days may be numbered.

    1) Trade union money, it is going to be slased to perhaps only 10% of want it was, if the TU bill goes though as it is, labour have become so use to this funding, almost addicted, that without it I think it will find it hard to adjust.

    2) Infighting, the people who have now Joined labour come from lots of small factions and party's, the Hard Left is inherently obsessed with forming factions and internal politics, that is off putting to the majority, and indeed we are seeing lots of former party members leave, this is likely to continue.

    3) Trends in society, the old party loyalty's are dying out, people who always vote for one party of the other are becoming rare, Labour party can count on most Public sector workers to vote for them, but there are going to be less of them next time, same can be seed of trade union members, who are becoming less common, even if the TU bill does not go though as planed, and the power of the BBC, even if the Tory's do not break it up, the number of new outlets is making it less infloantion.

  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited December 2015

    Wanderer said:

    My mother's family are from Ryedale. I remember the 1986 by-election and people (now long dead of course) reminiscing about voting for Lloyd George.

    I am pondering what the best "I met someone who voted for ..." anecdote is on this site? Lots of very experienced canvassers out there.

    Gladstone was still leading the Liberals into the 1892 election. Plenty of Gladstone voters would still have been alive in the 1950s, and a few into the 1960s. There are a few folk on this site who would have been politically active then, and will have trudged a few doorsteps... I wonder.
    I met a woman who had Thanksgiving dinner sitting next to FDR in Warm Springs in the mid 30s. There is film of her sitting next to him. She was about 5 at the time.
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,940

    Wanderer said:

    My mother's family are from Ryedale. I remember the 1986 by-election and people (now long dead of course) reminiscing about voting for Lloyd George.

    I am pondering what the best "I met someone who voted for ..." anecdote is on this site? Lots of very experienced canvassers out there.

    Gladstone was still leading the Liberals into the 1892 election. Plenty of Gladstone voters would still have been alive in the 1950s, and a few into the 1960s. There are a few folk on this site who would have been politically active then, and will have trudged a few doorsteps... I wonder.
    In the 1973 bye-election in Berwick on Tweed there were several reports of houses with photos of Gladstone, Lloyd George, and William Beveridge over the mantelpiece.
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    MP_SE said:

    TGOHF said:

    Reckless being sane on QT.

    Why did he have that moment of madness.

    In hindsight defecting to UKIP in a non-target seat was really stupid. He would have been more useful as a Tory. Instead they are now stuck with Kelly Tolhurst.
    In hindsight he was and is stupid. He represents all that is stupid about the typically thick and stupid right wing tory back bench MP. Fortunately there are relatively few of them but no one should underestimate that they are there and how stupid they are.
    This is tragic because I would love there to be some sensible right wing tory back bench MPs with one or two brain cells between them.
    Why cannot right wingers wake up to realise how thick their (our) cheerleaders are?
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,983
    Just popping in to point out one thing.

    Cameron is currently in Brussels trying to obtain something that the other 27 states wish to deny him. They are willing to go thru the night...

    ..but the last time that happened in 2011, Cameron walked out

    So if it does go ka-ka later tonight, don't be surprised...
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:


    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    'If Osborne stands he will probably get it, Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power, against a Chuka Umunna, Dan Jarvis or even Andy Burnham he may have had problems at the election, against Corbyn and probably Hilary Benn he should win one term .'

    It is not accurate to say that ' Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power'.. Since World War 2 there have been three examples of the Chancellor moving next door to No 10 - Macmillan - Major - and Brown. On three other occasions the PM was succeeded by his Foreign Secretary - Eden - Home - and Callaghan (also a former Chancellor). Macmillan and Major were not toxic at the time and went on to win an election. Brown had become toxic and lost. Osborne is probably at least as toxic as Brown.I also believe that Hilary Benn would prove a far more formidable opponent to him than Burnham.- and indeed more so than Howard proved to be against Blair in 2005

    Callaghan, as you say, was a former Chancellor, so 4/7 of those who became PM from an incumbent party were Chancellors or former Chancellors so I believe my point holds. Remember too that 2020 is actually the equivalent of 2005, ie the third election for the incumbent government not the 4th like 2010 and even Brown would have beaten Michael Howard in 2005 (he only became toxic after the 2008 crash). Corbyn is basically a Labour IDS, Benn a Labour Howard, he might provide Labour with a modest recovery as Howard boosted the Tory total a little but I would expect Osborne to still lead the largest party
    Your point does not stand re- Callaghan at all - he was a former Chancellor who had left that office more than 8 years before he succeeded Wilson as PM and, therefore, had no relevance at all to the leadership election which anointed him. I would also point out that both Macmillan and Major had only held the office of Chancellor for a very short period of time. They both only presented one Budget - Macmillan Introduced Premium Bonds whilst Major brought in TESSAS. Neither had been able to establish a track record in the role - unlike Brown and Osborne.
    Re- Benn I would expect him to do rather better than Howard who managed a 3% Lab to Con swing in 2005.
  • Options
    viewcode said:

    Just popping in to point out one thing.

    Cameron is currently in Brussels trying to obtain something that the other 27 states wish to deny him. They are willing to go thru the night...

    ..but the last time that happened in 2011, Cameron walked out

    So if it does go ka-ka later tonight, don't be surprised...

    Its all over and David Cameron has held a press conference. Most leaders seem optimistic agreement will be reached at the Feb 16 meeting
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    Wanderer said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:


    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    'If Osborne stands he will probably get it, Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power, against a Chuka Umunna, Dan Jarvis or even Andy Burnham he may have had problems at the election, against Corbyn and probably Hilary Benn he should win one term .'

    It is not accurate to say that ' Chancellors normally succeed the PM in power'.. Since World War 2 there have been three examples of the Chancellor moving next door to No 10 - Macmillan - Major - and Brown. On three other occasions the PM was succeeded by his Foreign Secretary - Eden - Home - and Callaghan (also a former Chancellor). Macmillan and Major were not toxic at the time and went on to win an election. Brown had become toxic and lost. Osborne is probably at least as toxic as Brown.I also believe that Hilary Benn would prove a far more formidable opponent to him than Burnham.- and indeed more so than Howard proved to be against Blair in 2005

    Callaghan, as you say, was a former Chancellor, so 4/7 of those who became PM from an incumbent party were Chancellors or former Chancellors so I believe my point holds. Remember too that 2020 is actually the equivalent of 2005, ie the third election for the incumbent government not the 4th like 2010 and even Brown would have beaten Michael Howard in 2005 (he only became toxic after the 2008 crash). Corbyn is basically a Labour IDS, Benn a Labour Howard, he might provide Labour with a modest recovery as Howard boosted the Tory total a little but I would expect Osborne to still lead the largest party
    Ah. But (shades of pre-May 7th) Tories as largest party is not the same thing as Tories in office.
    With the backing of the DUP and UKIP it probably is and Benn would not do a deal with the SNP though Corbyn might he would not have the numbers
    Daring the SNP to vote him and a minority Labour Government down would not be 'doing a deal'!
This discussion has been closed.