Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The race for the Republican nomination could be clearer aft

13»

Comments

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    EU Officials acknowledged giving powers to an EU agency to send in guards — some of whom could be armed and empowered with the right to force migrants into registration centres — over the objections of a national government could lead to tensions."

    Member states will comply, for the greater good you understand. – Heard that before. #WWII
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,144
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I still think Rubio wins this. But I can't in good faith write my thread advising people to back him at the current odds!

    Yes, he's a lay at the current odds.

    Hell, they're ALL lays at the current odds!
    Who's entering the race?!
    Bloomberg.
    "Are you into gambling? You are? Well, here’s a tip: Don’t put any money on Michael Bloomberg becoming president"

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/stop-trying-to-make-bloomberg-happen/411514/
    Michael Bloomberg is considering a run, whatever that article says. PBers be assured, I have actual knowledge of this :-)
    If he runs, tell us in advance so I can bet on Trump winning the presidency, as Bloomberg will get more votes from democrats than republicans, like John Anderson did in 1980.
    Bloomberg will win fiscally conservative, socially moderate Republicans as much as he wins centrist Dems, the establishment GOP would certainly vote for Bloomberg over Trump so Hillary has little to fear from his running, an independent Sanders run would be more dangerous for her
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,144

    Time for a sanity check for those who think this is coming down to Trump vs Cruz.

    Iowa, four years ago:

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2011/12/14/has-the-gingrich-surge-run-out-of-steam/

    Caveat punter.

    Gingrich won South Carolina of course and Romney was still generally frontrunner in most polls
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,144
    Speedy said:

    A useful article on the outlook for the GOP primaries in key states:

    http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/newsdesk/states-that-could-pick-gop-nominee?mref=home_top_side_1

    Key quote:

    “I think you can have three can­did­ates—Cruz, Trump, and Ru­bio—go all the way to Cali­for­nia [which votes on June 7],” says Re­pub­lic­an strategist Scott Reed, the cam­paign man­ager for Bob Dole in 1996. “Be­cause of the way the cal­en­dar is de­signed, with so many del­eg­ates be­ing pro­por­tion­al up un­til March 15, then win­ner-take-all, it’s go­ing to be very hard for someone to get to the ma­gic num­ber [needed for the nom­in­a­tion] un­til later than ever. Cali­for­nia may really mat­ter this time.”

    You should have asked me instead, I'm much better at predicting the GOP race so far than any other, so far close to (if not at) 100% accuracy.

    So here's the list of states that matter:
    1. Iowa
    If Trump wins Iowa, he wins the nomination-period.
    If Trump doesn't win Iowa, then the person who does will be his main challenger, unless Trump also loses N.H.

    2. N.Hampshire
    If Trump hasn't won Iowa, then he needs N.H or he's out, same goes for those who haven't won Iowa.
    If the person who won Iowa also wins N.H. then he is the nominee.

    3. S.Carolina
    The delusional's last stand, if those who have failed to win the last 2 are still in the race and have lost S.C. then they are will truly be sidelined by everyone including their last supporters.

    4. The southern states on Super Tuesday.
    Trump has to win a majority of those the states to keep momentum.
    His challenger has to win his home state to avoid a collapse, and a majority of southern states to build momentum.

    Although Scott Reed was a campaign manager 20 years ago for Bob Dole, he has no idea about the modern world, especially if his last hope to nominate Rubio is California.
    Agree
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited 2015 15
    A bit like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX_d_vMKswE

    EU Officials acknowledged giving powers to an EU agency to send in guards — some of whom could be armed and empowered with the right to force migrants into registration centres — over the objections of a national government could lead to tensions."

    Member states will comply, for the greater good you understand. – Heard that before. #WWII

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,144
    edited 2015 15


    'If he runs, tell us in advance so I can bet on Trump winning the presidency, as Bloomberg will get more votes from democrats than republicans, like John Anderson did in 1980.'

    The GOP establishment were firmly behind the Reagan Bush ticket, today's GOP establishment would rather hold their nose and vote for Hillary than Trump, at least in the privacy of the booth, in fact I would expect the entire Bush family to do exactly that, the Bushes are now on amicable terms with the Clintons or at least Bill, they clearly despise Trump for toppling Jeb from his birthright
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,233
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:
    In Scotland its who will lose least badly v the SNP. Its too early for voters to have their revenge on the SNP, but that moment is moving closer, just not this time.
    2050 maybe
    2050 Scottish Tory majority government nailed on?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    EU Officials acknowledged giving powers to an EU agency to send in guards — some of whom could be armed and empowered with the right to force migrants into registration centres — over the objections of a national government could lead to tensions."

    Member states will comply, for the greater good you understand. – Heard that before. #WWII

    Great news! Just need an EU police force, criminal justice system and army.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Why is Dave allowing our forces to be used in this EU power grab:
    David Cameron, who will join EU leaders as they discuss the plan at a summit in Brussels tomorrow, has offered the use of British assets to help secure Europe's external border even though we are not a part of the travel zone.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3361342/British-troops-join-EU-border-force-able-ignore-countries-national-sovereignty-patrol-borders-bid-control-migrant-crisis.html
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Why is Dave allowing our forces to be used in this EU power grab:

    Because he is desperate to be part of the 'top table'...
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Not an especially notable story, but I was childishly amused by the name of the poor chap who got shot: Scott Watmuff. If ever a name deserved a question mark...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-35100078
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    MP_SE said:

    Why is Dave allowing our forces to be used in this EU power grab:

    David Cameron, who will join EU leaders as they discuss the plan at a summit in Brussels tomorrow, has offered the use of British assets to help secure Europe's external border even though we are not a part of the travel zone.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3361342/British-troops-join-EU-border-force-able-ignore-countries-national-sovereignty-patrol-borders-bid-control-migrant-crisis.html

    Presumably because he thinks it's in Britain's interests that mainland Europe should not be overwhelmed with migrants.

    I know that kippers hate the EU more than Windows 8 but that seems like a reasonable calculation to me, especially since Britain doesn't have to reciprocate.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited 2015 15
    runnymede said:

    Why is Dave allowing our forces to be used in this EU power grab:

    Because he is desperate to be part of the 'top table'...

    MP_SE said:

    Why is Dave allowing our forces to be used in this EU power grab:

    David Cameron, who will join EU leaders as they discuss the plan at a summit in Brussels tomorrow, has offered the use of British assets to help secure Europe's external border even though we are not a part of the travel zone.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3361342/British-troops-join-EU-border-force-able-ignore-countries-national-sovereignty-patrol-borders-bid-control-migrant-crisis.html
    It's 99.99% certain that such a force would never be deployed in the UK. It's also pretty clear that better secured borders elsewhere in the EU is very beneficial for us. That's why.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,144
    Speedy said:

    While we are at the 2016 subject, new national and Iowa polls:

    ABC national poll:

    Trump 38 +6
    Cruz 15 +8
    Rubio 12 +1
    Carson 12 -10
    Bush 5 -1
    Christie 4 +2
    Kasich 2 -1
    Paul 2 -1
    Fiorina 1 -3

    This is probably the last debate with Paul and Fiorina on stage.

    PPP Iowa:

    Trump 28 +6
    Cruz 25 +11
    Rubio 14 +4
    Carson 10 -11
    Bush 7 +2
    Christie 3 0
    Fiorina 3 -2
    Huckabee 3 -3
    Kasich 2 0

    Also, Rubio might get sucked into a corruption scandal:

    http://www.nationaljournal.com/s/125957/did-marco-rubios-donors-fund-book-that-put-800-000-into-rubios-pocket?mref=recommended_1

    Rubio might have violated Congressional Ethics Rules, it's a big deal, last time it cost the head of Jim Wright then House Speaker in 1989, however since Rubio is leaving politics anyway and not seeking re-election it doesn't affect republicans in the Senate:

    "Just sev­en weeks shy of the Iowa caucuses, Ru­bio worst-case scen­ario isn’t what the Eth­ics Com­mit­tee might do to him fol­low­ing a lengthy in­vest­ig­a­tion, giv­en that he’s already made it clear he plans to leave the cham­ber next year either way. It’s what his GOP rivals might do with this new tid­bit in those sev­en weeks, giv­en Ru­bio’s already well-doc­u­mented prob­lems with money."

    But it will still terminate his campaign to run for president.

    Clinton 50% Trump 44% in the ABC poll general election numbers
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Anorak said:

    Not an especially notable story, but I was childishly amused by the name of the poor chap who got shot: Scott Watmuff. If ever a name deserved a question mark...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-35100078

    If the woman at the centre of the love triangle had jumped the other way, she could have become Rubbina Watmuff. Might have been a bit awkward in the doctor's waiting room having that name called out.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'It's also pretty clear that better secured borders elsewhere in the EU is very beneficial for us.'

    If we have 'assets' to spare why not use them to secure our own borders, which as we know are from being as secure as we would like?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    Not an especially notable story, but I was childishly amused by the name of the poor chap who got shot: Scott Watmuff. If ever a name deserved a question mark...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-35100078

    If the woman at the centre of the love triangle had jumped the other way, she could have become Rubbina Watmuff. Might have been a bit awkward in the doctor's waiting room having that name called out.
    Should have swallowed my wine before reading that :D
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    runnymede said:

    'It's also pretty clear that better secured borders elsewhere in the EU is very beneficial for us.'

    If we have 'assets' to spare why not use them to secure our own borders, which as we know are from being as secure as we would like?

    Same reason you fix a hole in the roof before fixing a leaky tap.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    watford30 said:

    malcolmg said:

    watford30 said:

    malcolmg said:

    have a laugh at Labour talent.......https://t.co/kyhV1GIGj3
    Is it any wonder the SNP sweep the boards here.

    Someone's posted a video of a local council meeting in a foreign country. Are we meant to be impressed? What language were they speaking BTW?
    I would not expect a cretin like you to understand anything other than "how much is my JSA"
    Can you try that again in English?
    Cuckoo
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    MP_SE said:

    Why is Dave allowing our forces to be used in this EU power grab:

    David Cameron, who will join EU leaders as they discuss the plan at a summit in Brussels tomorrow, has offered the use of British assets to help secure Europe's external border even though we are not a part of the travel zone.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3361342/British-troops-join-EU-border-force-able-ignore-countries-national-sovereignty-patrol-borders-bid-control-migrant-crisis.html
    Presumably because he thinks it's in Britain's interests that mainland Europe should not be overwhelmed with migrants.

    I know that kippers hate the EU more than Windows 8 but that seems like a reasonable calculation to me, especially since Britain doesn't have to reciprocate.
    Their powers are excessive and we should play no part in it. A border force invited into a country is acceptable. A border force which can enter a country without permission is not.

    I am not a Kipper.

    I know europhiles struggle with the concept of national sovereignty so maybe it is hard to see what is wrong with our participation in this new version of Frontex.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    False analogy I think. If our own borders are secure what happens in Greece is not a priority. Leaky borders in Greece or elsewhere only matter if they provide an opening to the UK.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MP_SE said:

    MP_SE said:

    Why is Dave allowing our forces to be used in this EU power grab:

    David Cameron, who will join EU leaders as they discuss the plan at a summit in Brussels tomorrow, has offered the use of British assets to help secure Europe's external border even though we are not a part of the travel zone.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3361342/British-troops-join-EU-border-force-able-ignore-countries-national-sovereignty-patrol-borders-bid-control-migrant-crisis.html
    Presumably because he thinks it's in Britain's interests that mainland Europe should not be overwhelmed with migrants.

    I know that kippers hate the EU more than Windows 8 but that seems like a reasonable calculation to me, especially since Britain doesn't have to reciprocate.
    Their powers are excessive and we should play no part in it. A border force invited into a country is acceptable. A border force which can enter a country without permission is not.

    I am not a Kipper.

    I know europhiles struggle with the concept of national sovereignty so maybe it is hard to see what is wrong with our participation in this new version of Frontex.

    We are voluntarily using our military to assist our neighbours, just as we voluntarily use our military in Syria and other arenas across the globe. That is entirely reasonable.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    MP_SE said:

    MP_SE said:

    Why is Dave allowing our forces to be used in this EU power grab:

    David Cameron, who will join EU leaders as they discuss the plan at a summit in Brussels tomorrow, has offered the use of British assets to help secure Europe's external border even though we are not a part of the travel zone.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3361342/British-troops-join-EU-border-force-able-ignore-countries-national-sovereignty-patrol-borders-bid-control-migrant-crisis.html
    Presumably because he thinks it's in Britain's interests that mainland Europe should not be overwhelmed with migrants.

    I know that kippers hate the EU more than Windows 8 but that seems like a reasonable calculation to me, especially since Britain doesn't have to reciprocate.
    Their powers are excessive and we should play no part in it. A border force invited into a country is acceptable. A border force which can enter a country without permission is not.

    I am not a Kipper.

    I know europhiles struggle with the concept of national sovereignty so maybe it is hard to see what is wrong with our participation in this new version of Frontex.

    Given the choice between seeing fresh waves of migrants coursing through southern and eastern Europe next year, destabilising the entire continent, and participating in a Europe-wide scheme to secure borders more effectively, I'm going for option b. It's in Britain's own interests to see those borders secured better.

    I agree with you that invading Greece to secure the outer border of Schengen is daft. A better idea would be to introduce a mechanism to eject countries from Schengen that refuse help when a qualified majority determine that its borders are being inadequately policed.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    runnymede said:

    False analogy I think. If our own borders are secure what happens in Greece is not a priority. Leaky borders in Greece or elsewhere only matter if they provide an opening to the UK.

    Unstable neighbours are a negative on us even if we are ourselves secure.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Greece is not our neighbour, is it?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,233
    runnymede said:

    Greece is not our neighbour, is it?

    You may have just single-handedly undermined the entire premise of a popular Aussie TV show.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    http://time.com/4149125/house-of-cards-underwood-gop-debate/
    House of Cards fictional and conniving President Underwood will be making a special announcement during the real-life Republican debate tonight, the show’s Twitter account announced Tuesday.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    GOP candidates are doing their pre-debate walkthroughs at the gorgeous facility at The Venetian (owned by Trump friend Sheldon Adelson).

    Candidates tend to not withdraw after an alleged poor debate performance, which is subjective, but after bad primary votes, which isn't. If the donors get cold feet then all bets are off.

    So it's possible that someone may withdraw after this evening, but probable after the Iowa Caucuses, and certain after the first primary in New Hampshire.

    By the time South Carolina results are in the field will have thinned out considerably.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited 2015 15
    runnymede said:

    False analogy I think. If our own borders are secure what happens in Greece is not a priority. Leaky borders in Greece or elsewhere only matter if they provide an opening to the UK.

    No border is totally secure. The number of people crossing the Iron Curtain or from North Korea into China are testament to that.

    An alternative way to look at it is like this: two borders each stopping 80% of people are more effective than a single border stopping 95%. And the cost of stopping each incremental percent rises sharply, so the layered approach is probably more cost effective to boot.

    Our commitment to the EU border is reactive to events - so not permanent - and we only contribute a small part of the total required force. So I'd hope it's relatively inexpensive.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,550
    watford30 said:


    'Russian missiles only kill enemy combatants. Anyone else remains unscathed.' or some such nonsense.

    Yeah, who would be so dickish as to claim that their bombs & missiles only take out the bad guys and always spare civilians?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    watford30 said:


    'Russian missiles only kill enemy combatants. Anyone else remains unscathed.' or some such nonsense.

    Yeah, who would be so dickish as to claim that their bombs & missiles only take out the bad guys and always spare civilians?
    I don't think anyone [important] has claimed that. That would indeed be a monumentally stupid claim. Up there with $120 oil being a guaranteed source of revenue.

    Perfectly valid to discuss the record to date, though, and stress the procedures in place to minimise the risk of civilians being caught up in a strike.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    runnymede said:

    Greece is not our neighbour, is it?

    Yes and no; but if we can help keep Greece secure then the rest of Europe and consequentially ourselves will become more secure.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited 2015 15
    Just to explain my "yes and no" remark: France, Belgium and the Netherlands are our neighbours. They are in Schengen with Greece so Schengen (including Greece) is our neighbour.

    Whether we like Schengen or not is inconsequential.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,550
    Anorak said:

    watford30 said:


    'Russian missiles only kill enemy combatants. Anyone else remains unscathed.' or some such nonsense.

    Yeah, who would be so dickish as to claim that their bombs & missiles only take out the bad guys and always spare civilians?
    I don't think anyone [important] has claimed that. That would indeed be a monumentally stupid claim. Up there with $120 oil being a guaranteed source of revenue.

    Perfectly valid to discuss the record to date, though, and stress the procedures in place to minimise the risk of civilians being caught up in a strike.
    Yawn, '£200bn oil boom' etc, etc.

    Some shocking misreporting going on..

    'David Cameron: Syria air strikes unlikely to lead to civilian deaths – live'

    'MoD says British missiles can ‘eliminate’ civilian casualties'

    http://tinyurl.com/q67fhux
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    New York schools got the same email from Germany that LA did. LA shut their schools, NY dismissed it as a hoax.

    Given San Bernadino, it's understandable but a tad overreaction.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,233

    Anorak said:

    watford30 said:


    'Russian missiles only kill enemy combatants. Anyone else remains unscathed.' or some such nonsense.

    Yeah, who would be so dickish as to claim that their bombs & missiles only take out the bad guys and always spare civilians?
    I don't think anyone [important] has claimed that. That would indeed be a monumentally stupid claim. Up there with $120 oil being a guaranteed source of revenue.

    Perfectly valid to discuss the record to date, though, and stress the procedures in place to minimise the risk of civilians being caught up in a strike.
    Yawn, '£200bn oil boom' etc, etc.

    Some shocking misreporting going on..

    'David Cameron: Syria air strikes unlikely to lead to civilian deaths – live'

    'MoD says British missiles can ‘eliminate’ civilian casualties'

    http://tinyurl.com/q67fhux
    I think he said "up to £200bn", so still accurate ;)
  • LukeInLondonLukeInLondon Posts: 30
    Evening all!

    It seems to me that it is in Britain's interest that the Greek border is secured from overwhelming migration. It does, however, seem to be potentially a new change to the sovereignty of the EU versus member states, at least those on the border. If I understand it correctly, it sounds like the new border force can forcibly take migrants to immigration centres regardless of the will of the country whose border they are policing and where the centre is sited. Have I got this correct? If so, has the EU ever had the power of physical force on a member nation's territory before?
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476

    http://time.com/4149125/house-of-cards-underwood-gop-debate/

    House of Cards fictional and conniving President Underwood will be making a special announcement during the real-life Republican debate tonight, the show’s Twitter account announced Tuesday.
    Hopefully the date of the next season.
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476

    Evening all!

    It seems to me that it is in Britain's interest that the Greek border is secured from overwhelming migration. It does, however, seem to be potentially a new change to the sovereignty of the EU versus member states, at least those on the border. If I understand it correctly, it sounds like the new border force can forcibly take migrants to immigration centres regardless of the will of the country whose border they are policing and where the centre is sited. Have I got this correct? If so, has the EU ever had the power of physical force on a member nation's territory before?

    Armed guards herding people in to camps.
    As other posters have said, can't see it happening.
    Way too much historical symbolism.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Patrick Kidd
    The quiz set by @_peterriddell for today's Times politics team lunch (I know there's a typo). Answers follow shortly
    https://t.co/V6401pu8f5
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    I'm watching a TV show called Legends starring Sean Bean. He has not been killed yet, and he is the producer.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,960
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    A useful article on the outlook for the GOP primaries in key states:

    http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/newsdesk/states-that-could-pick-gop-nominee?mref=home_top_side_1

    Key quote:

    “I think you can have three can­did­ates—Cruz, Trump, and Ru­bio—go all the way to Cali­for­nia [which votes on June 7],” says Re­pub­lic­an strategist Scott Reed, the cam­paign man­ager for Bob Dole in 1996. “Be­cause of the way the cal­en­dar is de­signed, with so many del­eg­ates be­ing pro­por­tion­al up un­til March 15, then win­ner-take-all, it’s go­ing to be very hard for someone to get to the ma­gic num­ber [needed for the nom­in­a­tion] un­til later than ever. Cali­for­nia may really mat­ter this time.”

    You should have asked me instead, I'm much better at predicting the GOP race so far than any other, so far close to (if not at) 100% accuracy.

    So here's the list of states that matter:
    1. Iowa
    If Trump wins Iowa, he wins the nomination-period.
    If Trump doesn't win Iowa, then the person who does will be his main challenger, unless Trump also loses N.H.

    2. N.Hampshire
    If Trump hasn't won Iowa, then he needs N.H or he's out, same goes for those who haven't won Iowa.
    If the person who won Iowa also wins N.H. then he is the nominee.

    3. S.Carolina
    The delusional's last stand, if those who have failed to win the last 2 are still in the race and have lost S.C. then they are will truly be sidelined by everyone including their last supporters.

    4. The southern states on Super Tuesday.
    Trump has to win a majority of those the states to keep momentum.
    His challenger has to win his home state to avoid a collapse, and a majority of southern states to build momentum.

    Although Scott Reed was a campaign manager 20 years ago for Bob Dole, he has no idea about the modern world, especially if his last hope to nominate Rubio is California.
    Agree
    Republican voters in Iowa have sided with their party's eventual nominees only half the time in the six competitive races since 1976, according to caucus records
    http://uspolitics.about.com/od/CampaignsElections/ss/5-Iowa-Caucus-Winners-Who-Lost-The-Nomination.htm
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    Evening all!

    It seems to me that it is in Britain's interest that the Greek border is secured from overwhelming migration. It does, however, seem to be potentially a new change to the sovereignty of the EU versus member states, at least those on the border. If I understand it correctly, it sounds like the new border force can forcibly take migrants to immigration centres regardless of the will of the country whose border they are policing and where the centre is sited. Have I got this correct? If so, has the EU ever had the power of physical force on a member nation's territory before?

    These proposals, regardless of the stated public reasons given if agreed, are another small but significant step in to consolidation and ever closer union, of what where independent nations in to one large contrary.

    For those who are familiar with the history of the German unification, this is so similar to Prusher using the events of 1848, to consolidate there power over the 'German Confederation' as it was then. The same way that the EURO has been used in the same way that the Zollverein, to bind the bits together economically.

    I have no desire to be part of a single European state, especially one that is as inwardly looking, burocratic and authoritarian, as the one that is emerging. It is time to say good by peacefully and wishing those that want to be part of the new nation all the best.
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    Just been VI'd by You Gov.
    Lots of questions on policies & campaigns, HS2, Fracking, Trump etc
    and lots of end of year questions on favorite movie and reality show etc.
  • LukeInLondonLukeInLondon Posts: 30
    BigRich said:

    Evening all!

    It seems to me that it is in Britain's interest that the Greek border is secured from overwhelming migration. It does, however, seem to be potentially a new change to the sovereignty of the EU versus member states, at least those on the border. If I understand it correctly, it sounds like the new border force can forcibly take migrants to immigration centres regardless of the will of the country whose border they are policing and where the centre is sited. Have I got this correct? If so, has the EU ever had the power of physical force on a member nation's territory before?

    These proposals, regardless of the stated public reasons given if agreed, are another small but significant step in to consolidation and ever closer union, of what where independent nations in to one large contrary.

    For those who are familiar with the history of the German unification, this is so similar to Prusher using the events of 1848, to consolidate there power over the 'German Confederation' as it was then. The same way that the EURO has been used in the same way that the Zollverein, to bind the bits together economically.

    I have no desire to be part of a single European state, especially one that is as inwardly looking, burocratic and authoritarian, as the one that is emerging. It is time to say good by peacefully and wishing those that want to be part of the new nation all the best.
    I don't know how you managed to mispell Prussia after getting the much trickier Zollverein correct!
  • CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840

    EU Officials acknowledged giving powers to an EU agency to send in guards — some of whom could be armed and empowered with the right to force migrants into registration centres — over the objections of a national government could lead to tensions."

    Member states will comply, for the greater good you understand. – Heard that before. #WWII

    It really is time for us to leave.

    It's like being in a pub and it's all "kicking off" and someone in your party wants to help calm tensions, another wants to just hang around and see what will happen, whilst you're edging towards the door... "guys... let's just... go!"
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    The film "Youth...wonderful..
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    John_M said:

    Mr. 1983, it may also be a test-run for China when it comes to the islands disputed between themselves and Japan (who currently possess them). Taiwan also claims those islands but is not really in a position to pursue that.

    The corollary of Chinese militarist expansion (almost as soon as he became president, Xi Jinping was said to be keen on bolstering the military) may be the resurgence of Japanese nationalism and willingness to deploy military assets, even if only in self-defence.

    How India reacts will also be interesting to see.

    I don't think that's a particularly fair competition these days (except in the sense of Japan being a US proxy).

    India won't do a thing. It's sensible for them to be diplomatically in the middle and let the great powers court them. I also just don't think they'd be very effective for some reason. If you have those sorts of financial resources and you can't organise a Commonwealth Games without dissentry in the pool and bridges falling down, what hope have you of sending an Armada to sort out the Chinese?
    China spanked India in '62 iirc. No earthly reason why they couldn't do it again.
    China didn't intervene in the 1971 war.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    BigRich said:

    Evening all!

    It seems to me that it is in Britain's interest that the Greek border is secured from overwhelming migration. It does, however, seem to be potentially a new change to the sovereignty of the EU versus member states, at least those on the border. If I understand it correctly, it sounds like the new border force can forcibly take migrants to immigration centres regardless of the will of the country whose border they are policing and where the centre is sited. Have I got this correct? If so, has the EU ever had the power of physical force on a member nation's territory before?

    These proposals, regardless of the stated public reasons given if agreed, are another small but significant step in to consolidation and ever closer union, of what where independent nations in to one large contrary.

    For those who are familiar with the history of the German unification, this is so similar to Prusher using the events of 1848, to consolidate there power over the 'German Confederation' as it was then. The same way that the EURO has been used in the same way that the Zollverein, to bind the bits together economically.

    I have no desire to be part of a single European state, especially one that is as inwardly looking, burocratic and authoritarian, as the one that is emerging. It is time to say good by peacefully and wishing those that want to be part of the new nation all the best.
    I don't know how you managed to mispell Prussia after getting the much trickier Zollverein correct!
    Rusher - that big country to the east.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,482
    The sooner we're out of this EU mess the better. We all know it, even the Euroloons know it, they're just too proud to admit it.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    BigRich said:

    Evening all!

    It seems to me that it is in Britain's interest that the Greek border is secured from overwhelming migration. It does, however, seem to be potentially a new change to the sovereignty of the EU versus member states, at least those on the border. If I understand it correctly, it sounds like the new border force can forcibly take migrants to immigration centres regardless of the will of the country whose border they are policing and where the centre is sited. Have I got this correct? If so, has the EU ever had the power of physical force on a member nation's territory before?

    These proposals, regardless of the stated public reasons given if agreed, are another small but significant step in to consolidation and ever closer union, of what where independent nations in to one large contrary.

    For those who are familiar with the history of the German unification, this is so similar to Prusher using the events of 1848, to consolidate there power over the 'German Confederation' as it was then. The same way that the EURO has been used in the same way that the Zollverein, to bind the bits together economically.

    I have no desire to be part of a single European state, especially one that is as inwardly looking, burocratic and authoritarian, as the one that is emerging. It is time to say good by peacefully and wishing those that want to be part of the new nation all the best.
    I don't know how you managed to mispell Prussia after getting the much trickier Zollverein correct!
    Luck, thank you for pointing out my mistake, I hope it has not distracted form the point I was trying to make.

    I am dyslectic and normally rely on the spell checker, I got Zollverein correct because I copied it, But must have missed the Prusher/Prussia bit. I apologise to anybody who was confused by this, but honestly think that most people could work out who I was talking about.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,547
    BigRich said:

    Evening all!

    It seems to me that it is in Britain's interest that the Greek border is secured from overwhelming migration. It does, however, seem to be potentially a new change to the sovereignty of the EU versus member states, at least those on the border. If I understand it correctly, it sounds like the new border force can forcibly take migrants to immigration centres regardless of the will of the country whose border they are policing and where the centre is sited. Have I got this correct? If so, has the EU ever had the power of physical force on a member nation's territory before?

    These proposals, regardless of the stated public reasons given if agreed, are another small but significant step in to consolidation and ever closer union, of what where independent nations in to one large contrary.

    For those who are familiar with the history of the German unification, this is so similar to Prusher using the events of 1848, to consolidate there power over the 'German Confederation' as it was then. The same way that the EURO has been used in the same way that the Zollverein, to bind the bits together economically.

    I have no desire to be part of a single European state, especially one that is as inwardly looking, burocratic and authoritarian, as the one that is emerging. It is time to say good by peacefully and wishing those that want to be part of the new nation all the best.
    Entertainingly, the UK has a complete veto on there ever being a single European superstate.

    As does Russia, the US and France.

    Nothing the ECJ can do about it either.....
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    BigRich said:

    Evening all!

    It seems to me that it is in Britain's interest that the Greek border is secured from overwhelming migration. It does, however, seem to be potentially a new change to the sovereignty of the EU versus member states, at least those on the border. If I understand it correctly, it sounds like the new border force can forcibly take migrants to immigration centres regardless of the will of the country whose border they are policing and where the centre is sited. Have I got this correct? If so, has the EU ever had the power of physical force on a member nation's territory before?

    These proposals, regardless of the stated public reasons given if agreed, are another small but significant step in to consolidation and ever closer union, of what where independent nations in to one large contrary.

    For those who are familiar with the history of the German unification, this is so similar to Prusher using the events of 1848, to consolidate there power over the 'German Confederation' as it was then. The same way that the EURO has been used in the same way that the Zollverein, to bind the bits together economically.

    I have no desire to be part of a single European state, especially one that is as inwardly looking, burocratic and authoritarian, as the one that is emerging. It is time to say good by peacefully and wishing those that want to be part of the new nation all the best.
    Entertainingly, the UK has a complete veto on there ever being a single European superstate.

    As does Russia, the US and France.

    Nothing the ECJ can do about it either.....
    Also brings to mind the dissatisfaction felt by some Scots, Welsh, Northern Irish, Cornish, Northumberlanders, Mancunians, Londoners, and many more unhappy with the centralisation to Westminster.
This discussion has been closed.