What would be the pros and cons of mulsim immigration to the UK do we think?
Probably the same as all other migration.
With the added bonus that over time educated societies trend towards a more agnostic (if not outright atheist). So Islam will mellow out.
While the puritanical extremists who want a medieval religion get most of the attention this is already in evidence. Most Muslim friends of mine drink alcohol for instance and are about as religious as most Christian friends of mine. I bet the proportion of British Muslims who drink are dramatically higher than Middle East ones. Our western education and freedoms are as much an existential threat to unenlightened Islam as it is to unenlightened Christianity.
Err My dentist is a highly educated , charming and respected professional. His faith in Islam does not appear to have diminished with money and success.. and he does not drink..
Is he puritanical?
Religion was formed from ignorance. People inherit their parents religion by and large but like everything in life it evolves. There is no educated developed society that I know of that is more puritanical than it was in the past.
I imagine most of the Middle East is wealthier and more literate than it was 50 years ago, but also more hard line in matters of religion. A bit like Europe in 1550 compared to 1500.
Indeed. But it's not free. The Middle East is in the past going through the throes of reformation we have been through it. Just as migration to Europe changes Europe, Europe too changes the migrants.
What would be the pros and cons of mulsim immigration to the UK do we think?
Probably the same as all other migration.
With the added bonus that over time educated societies trend towards a more agnostic (if not outright atheist). So Islam will mellow out.
While the puritanical extremists who want a medieval religion get most of the attention this is already in evidence. Most Muslim friends of mine drink alcohol for instance and are about as religious as most Christian friends of mine. I bet the proportion of British Muslims who drink are dramatically higher than Middle East ones. Our western education and freedoms are as much an existential threat to unenlightened Islam as it is to unenlightened Christianity.
Err My dentist is a highly educated , charming and respected professional. His faith in Islam does not appear to have diminished with money and success.. and he does not drink..
Is he puritanical?
Religion was formed from ignorance. People inherit their parents religion by and large but like everything in life it evolves. There is no educated developed society that I know of that is more puritanical than it was in the past.
I imagine most of the Middle East is wealthier and more literate than it was 50 years ago, but also more hard line in matters of religion. A bit like Europe in 1550 compared to 1500.
ALERT Super important polls relating to this thread.
First polls asking people of Trump's muslim immigration ban policy, one from San Diego and another from Fresno, California (not your average conservative place):
"Yesterday, Donald Trump called for, quote, "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on." Do you strongly agree with this statement? Somewhat agree? Somewhat disagree? Or strongly disagree?"
"For our part, we’ve forecast the end of Trump’s campaign maybe four or five times. But not this time. Trump’s proposal, whatever the merits, looks to us like a political masterstroke, in large part because of the overwrought reactions it has prompted from Democrats, Republicans and the media alike."
I know nothing about Fresno, but San Diego is a big Navy town.
ALERT Super important polls relating to this thread.
First polls asking people of Trump's muslim immigration ban policy, one from San Diego and another from Fresno, California (not your average conservative place):
"Yesterday, Donald Trump called for, quote, "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on." Do you strongly agree with this statement? Somewhat agree? Somewhat disagree? Or strongly disagree?"
"For our part, we’ve forecast the end of Trump’s campaign maybe four or five times. But not this time. Trump’s proposal, whatever the merits, looks to us like a political masterstroke, in large part because of the overwrought reactions it has prompted from Democrats, Republicans and the media alike."
I know nothing about Fresno, but San Diego is a big Navy town.
What would be the pros and cons of mulsim immigration to the UK do we think?
Probably the same as all other migration.
With the added bonus that over time educated societies trend towards a more agnostic (if not outright atheist). So Islam will mellow out.
While the puritanical extremists who want a medieval religion get most of the attention this is already in evidence. Most Muslim friends of mine drink alcohol for instance and are about as religious as most Christian friends of mine. I bet the proportion of British Muslims who drink are dramatically higher than Middle East ones. Our western education and freedoms are as much an existential threat to unenlightened Islam as it is to unenlightened Christianity.
Err My dentist is a highly educated , charming and respected professional. His faith in Islam does not appear to have diminished with money and success.. and he does not drink..
Is he puritanical?
Religion was formed from ignorance. People inherit their parents religion by and large but like everything in life it evolves. There is no educated developed society that I know of that is more puritanical than it was in the past.
This poster is trolling on this issue and should be ignored.
What would be the pros and cons of mulsim immigration to the UK do we think?
Probably the same as all other migration.
With the added bonus that over time educated societies trend towards a more agnostic (if not outright atheist). So Islam will mellow out.
While the puritanical extremists who want a medieval religion get most of the attention this is already in evidence. Most Muslim friends of mine drink alcohol for instance and are about as religious as most Christian friends of mine. I bet the proportion of British Muslims who drink are dramatically higher than Middle East ones. Our western education and freedoms are as much an existential threat to unenlightened Islam as it is to unenlightened Christianity.
Err My dentist is a highly educated , charming and respected professional. His faith in Islam does not appear to have diminished with money and success.. and he does not drink..
Is he puritanical?
Religion was formed from ignorance. People inherit their parents religion by and large but like everything in life it evolves. There is no educated developed society that I know of that is more puritanical than it was in the past.
I imagine most of the Middle East is wealthier and more literate than it was 50 years ago, but also more hard line in matters of religion. A bit like Europe in 1550 compared to 1500.
Indeed. But it's not free. The Middle East is in the past going through the throes of reformation we have been through it. Just as migration to Europe changes Europe, Europe too changes the migrants.
"The Middle East is in the past going through the throes of reformation we have been through it"
Do you want to try again with that sentence because I for one am totally at a loss as to understand what you are trying to say. Ta.
What would be the pros and cons of mulsim immigration to the UK do we think?
Probably the same as all other migration.
With the added bonus that over time educated societies trend towards a more agnostic (if not outright atheist). So Islam will mellow out.
While the puritanical extremists who want a medieval religion get most of the attention this is already in evidence. Most Muslim friends of mine drink alcohol for instance and are about as religious as most Christian friends of mine. I bet the proportion of British Muslims who drink are dramatically higher than Middle East ones. Our western education and freedoms are as much an existential threat to unenlightened Islam as it is to unenlightened Christianity.
Err My dentist is a highly educated , charming and respected professional. His faith in Islam does not appear to have diminished with money and success.. and he does not drink..
Is he puritanical?
Religion was formed from ignorance. People inherit their parents religion by and large but like everything in life it evolves. There is no educated developed society that I know of that is more puritanical than it was in the past.
This poster is trolling on this issue and should be ignored.
Religion IS a result of ignorance. Believing that Jesus rose from the dead, or that Mohammed split the moon in half, is no less ridiculous than believing in Derek the magical pink flobblegobble that lives on the moon.
What would be the pros and cons of mulsim immigration to the UK do we think?
Probably the same as all other migration.
With the added bonus that over time educated societies trend towards a more agnostic (if not outright atheist). So Islam will mellow out.
While the puritanical extremists who want a medieval religion get most of the attention this is already in evidence. Most Muslim friends of mine drink alcohol for instance and are about as religious as most Christian friends of mine. I bet the proportion of British Muslims who drink are dramatically higher than Middle East ones. Our western education and freedoms are as much an existential threat to unenlightened Islam as it is to unenlightened Christianity.
Err My dentist is a highly educated , charming and respected professional. His faith in Islam does not appear to have diminished with money and success.. and he does not drink..
Is he puritanical?
Religion was formed from ignorance. People inherit their parents religion by and large but like everything in life it evolves. There is no educated developed society that I know of that is more puritanical than it was in the past.
I imagine most of the Middle East is wealthier and more literate than it was 50 years ago, but also more hard line in matters of religion. A bit like Europe in 1550 compared to 1500.
Indeed. But it's not free. The Middle East is in the past going through the throes of reformation we have been through it. Just as migration to Europe changes Europe, Europe too changes the migrants.
"Just as migration to Europe changes Europe, Europe too changes the migrants."
Whether that is true is the crux of the matter.. "Reflections on the Revolution in Europe", the events in Paris, the make up of the poor parts of large European cities suggests not in many cases
What would be the pros and cons of mulsim immigration to the UK do we think?
Probably the same as all other migration.
With the added bonus that over time educated societies trend towards a more agnostic (if not outright atheist). So Islam will mellow out.
While the puritanical extremists who want a medieval religion get most of the attention this is already in evidence. Most Muslim friends of mine drink alcohol for instance and are about as religious as most Christian friends of mine. I bet the proportion of British Muslims who drink are dramatically higher than Middle East ones. Our western education and freedoms are as much an existential threat to unenlightened Islam as it is to unenlightened Christianity.
Err My dentist is a highly educated , charming and respected professional. His faith in Islam does not appear to have diminished with money and success.. and he does not drink..
Is he puritanical?
Religion was formed from ignorance. People inherit their parents religion by and large but like everything in life it evolves. There is no educated developed society that I know of that is more puritanical than it was in the past.
This poster is trolling on this issue and should be ignored.
No I am not.
Do you deny that religion was formed from ignorance? Religion evolved in the past the world over to explain that which could not be explained. Science has explained what religion gave different answers to.
Do you deny people inherit their parents religion by and large?
Do you claim there are educated developed societies more puritanical now than they were in the past?
What would be the pros and cons of mulsim immigration to the UK do we think?
Probably the same as all other migration.
With the added bonus that over time educated societies trend towards a more agnostic (if not outright atheist). So Islam will mellow out.
While the puritanical extremists who want a medieval religion get most of the attention this is already in evidence. Most Muslim friends of mine drink alcohol for instance and are about as religious as most Christian friends of mine. I bet the proportion of British Muslims who drink are dramatically higher than Middle East ones. Our western education and freedoms are as much an existential threat to unenlightened Islam as it is to unenlightened Christianity.
Err My dentist is a highly educated , charming and respected professional. His faith in Islam does not appear to have diminished with money and success.. and he does not drink..
Is he puritanical?
Religion was formed from ignorance. People inherit their parents religion by and large but like everything in life it evolves. There is no educated developed society that I know of that is more puritanical than it was in the past.
I imagine most of the Middle East is wealthier and more literate than it was 50 years ago, but also more hard line in matters of religion. A bit like Europe in 1550 compared to 1500.
Indeed. But it's not free. The Middle East is in the past going through the throes of reformation we have been through it. Just as migration to Europe changes Europe, Europe too changes the migrants.
"Just as migration to Europe changes Europe, Europe too changes the migrants."
Whether that is true is the crux of the matter.. "Reflections on the Revolution in Europe", the events in Paris, the make up of the poor parts of large European cities suggests not in many cases
I agree with you not in all cases. In most though. The long term trend is clear though there will be exceptions to any rule.
That's true, although even ex-energy their trade surplus has diminished.
I was just being facetious and pointing out that Japan has not, in general, been a model of how to run a capitalist economy over the last three decades.
Anyone who does think it's a good model needs their head examining. However Japan is not like any other nation. They have nationalist consumerism, they have have nationalist bond buyers, they live forever and work until the day they drop dead. There are also millions of Japanese "employees" on company payrolls who do nothing and zombie companies can't fire them because severance costs would bankrupt them. Japan has a lot of problems, they need to get more women into the workplace and increase the fertility rate, I know its been going up soon but their culture over the last few years has become toxic when it comes to relationships and families, men aged 18-30 are more comfortable playing some waifu simulators than they are getting to know Japanese women of their age group. They need a massive reeducation programme and basically ban waifu simulator games from going on sale in Japan. Yes its treating the symptom rather than the cause, but it is better than having a generation of single men who have no clue how to attract girls and start a family.
If the Japanese women aren't having kids, or else are in the workplace - what on earth are they doing ?
What would be the pros and cons of mulsim immigration to the UK do we think?
Probably the same as all other migration.
With the added bonus that over time educated societies trend towards a more agnostic (if not outright atheist). So Islam will mellow out.
While the puritanical extremists who want a medieval religion get most of the attention this is already in evidence. Most Muslim friends of mine drink alcohol for instance and are about as religious as most Christian friends of mine. I bet the proportion of British Muslims who drink are dramatically higher than Middle East ones. Our western education and freedoms are as much an existential threat to unenlightened Islam as it is to unenlightened Christianity.
Err My dentist is a highly educated , charming and respected professional. His faith in Islam does not appear to have diminished with money and success.. and he does not drink..
Is he puritanical?
Religion was formed from ignorance. People inherit their parents religion by and large but like everything in life it evolves. There is no educated developed society that I know of that is more puritanical than it was in the past.
This poster is trolling on this issue and should be ignored.
Religion IS a result of ignorance. Believing that Jesus rose from the dead, or that Mohammed split the moon in half, is no less ridiculous than believing in Derek the magical pink flobblegobble that lives on the moon.
Or that lightning bolts are caused by Thor's Hammer.
What would be the pros and cons of mulsim immigration to the UK do we think?
Probably the same as all other migration.
With the added bonus that over time educated societies trend towards a more agnostic (if not outright atheist). So Islam will mellow out.
While the puritanical extremists who want a medieval religion get most of the attention this is already in evidence. Most Muslim friends of mine drink alcohol for instance and are about as religious as most Christian friends of mine. I bet the proportion of British Muslims who drink are dramatically higher than Middle East ones. Our western education and freedoms are as much an existential threat to unenlightened Islam as it is to unenlightened Christianity.
Err My dentist is a highly educated , charming and respected professional. His faith in Islam does not appear to have diminished with money and success.. and he does not drink..
Is he puritanical?
Religion was formed from ignorance. People inherit their parents religion by and large but like everything in life it evolves. There is no educated developed society that I know of that is more puritanical than it was in the past.
I imagine most of the Middle East is wealthier and more literate than it was 50 years ago, but also more hard line in matters of religion. A bit like Europe in 1550 compared to 1500.
Indeed. But it's not free. The Middle East is in the past going through the throes of reformation we have been through it. Just as migration to Europe changes Europe, Europe too changes the migrants.
"Just as migration to Europe changes Europe, Europe too changes the migrants."
Whether that is true is the crux of the matter.. "Reflections on the Revolution in Europe", the events in Paris, the make up of the poor parts of large European cities suggests not
It might change them if they were to be successfully integrated, but as we're doing everything in our power to prevent them from integrating, that won't happen. Even that Guardian journalist who covered the Oldham by-election said she met people who had been here for years that couldn't speak English, and had voted but didn't know for who. Incredible!
What would be the pros and cons of mulsim immigration to the UK do we think?
Probably the same as all other migration.
With the added bonus that over time educated societies trend towards a more agnostic (if not outright atheist). So Islam will mellow out.
While the puritanical extremists who want a medieval religion get most of the attention this is already in evidence. Most Muslim friends of mine drink alcohol for instance and are about as religious as most Christian friends of mine. I bet the proportion of British Muslims who drink are dramatically higher than Middle East ones. Our western education and freedoms are as much an existential threat to unenlightened Islam as it is to unenlightened Christianity.
Err My dentist is a highly educated , charming and respected professional. His faith in Islam does not appear to have diminished with money and success.. and he does not drink..
Is he puritanical?
Religion was formed from ignorance. People inherit their parents religion by and large but like everything in life it evolves. There is no educated developed society that I know of that is more puritanical than it was in the past.
This poster is trolling on this issue and should be ignored.
No I am not.
Do you deny that religion was formed from ignorance? Religion evolved in the past the world over to explain that which could not be explained. Science has explained what religion gave different answers to.
Do you deny people inherit their parents religion by and large?
Do you claim there are educated developed societies more puritanical now than they were in the past?
Religion also developed to control people and ensure conformity,
ALERT Super important polls relating to this thread.
First polls asking people of Trump's muslim immigration ban policy, one from San Diego and another from Fresno, California (not your average conservative place):
"Yesterday, Donald Trump called for, quote, "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on." Do you strongly agree with this statement? Somewhat agree? Somewhat disagree? Or strongly disagree?"
"For our part, we’ve forecast the end of Trump’s campaign maybe four or five times. But not this time. Trump’s proposal, whatever the merits, looks to us like a political masterstroke, in large part because of the overwrought reactions it has prompted from Democrats, Republicans and the media alike."
Hmm. Let's see. Trump might be in danger of alienating those Americans who worship the constitution -- guns, free speech and crucially, freedom of religion.
...careful - they worship guns, free speech and their own (often evangelical) Christian religion. Muslims for this demographic are not high on the desirability list. Trump is not a fool. Having a go at the Muzzies is not a stupid thing in pure electoral terms. Many normal decent people are pretty much tired of Islam these days and wish it would just go away. These people vote.
What would be the pros and cons of mulsim immigration to the UK do we think?
Probably the same as all other migration.
With the added bonus that over time educated societies trend towards a more agnostic (if not outright atheist). So Islam will mellow out.
While the puritanical extremists who want a medieval religion get most of the attention this is already in evidence. Most Muslim friends of mine drink alcohol for instance and are about as religious as most Christian friends of mine. I bet the proportion of British Muslims who drink are dramatically higher than Middle East ones. Our western education and freedoms are as much an existential threat to unenlightened Islam as it is to unenlightened Christianity.
Err My dentist is a highly educated , charming and respected professional. His faith in Islam does not appear to have diminished with money and success.. and he does not drink..
Is he puritanical?
Religion was formed from ignorance. People inherit their parents religion by and large but like everything in life it evolves. There is no educated developed society that I know of that is more puritanical than it was in the past.
I imagine most of the Middle East is wealthier and more literate than it was 50 years ago, but also more hard line in matters of religion. A bit like Europe in 1550 compared to 1500.
Indeed. But it's not free. The Middle East is in the past going through the throes of reformation we have been through it. Just as migration to Europe changes Europe, Europe too changes the migrants.
"Just as migration to Europe changes Europe, Europe too changes the migrants."
Whether that is true is the crux of the matter.. "Reflections on the Revolution in Europe", the events in Paris, the make up of the poor parts of large European cities suggests not in many cases
I agree with you not in all cases. In most though. The long term trend is clear though there will be exceptions to any rule.
The importance of good grammar... comma after "not" in my post
Only problem for Ms Eagle is that Labour has got misogyny in its DNA. It is much harder to envisage a female CON leader than a female LAB one. Look at the way Cooper and Kendall were treated during the leadership contest.
How about a female LibDem leader?
If I were a betting man I might have a nibble on Kirsty Williams. I think she will become MP for Brecon and Radnor in 2020 and could become leader shortly afterwards.
I would not discourage you from that bet - more than an outside chance
Thanks...ehh, is there not some limitations with that?
Yes, but I think the idea is that you go to just-eat.com as a workaround.
Not quite what I had in mind Richard. Gosh this has been educational.
Some days I consider myself very sad and nerdy. Fortunately, there are people considerably sadder and nerdier than I, a good chunk of whom (apparently) live in Japan.
What would be the pros and cons of mulsim immigration to the UK do we think?
Probably the same as all other migration.
With the added bonus that over time educated societies trend towards a more agnostic (if not outright atheist). So Islam will mellow out.
While the puritanical extremists who want a medieval religion get most of the attention this is already in evidence. Most Muslim friends of mine drink alcohol for instance and are about as religious as most Christian friends of mine. I bet the proportion of British Muslims who drink are dramatically higher than Middle East ones. Our western education and freedoms are as much an existential threat to unenlightened Islam as it is to unenlightened Christianity.
Err My dentist is a highly educated , charming and respected professional. His faith in Islam does not appear to have diminished with money and success.. and he does not drink..
Is he puritanical?
Religion was formed from ignorance. People inherit their parents religion by and large but like everything in life it evolves. There is no educated developed society that I know of that is more puritanical than it was in the past.
This poster is trolling on this issue and should be ignored.
No I am not.
Do you deny that religion was formed from ignorance? Religion evolved in the past the world over to explain that which could not be explained. Science has explained what religion gave different answers to.
Do you deny people inherit their parents religion by and large?
Do you claim there are educated developed societies more puritanical now than they were in the past?
Religion also developed to control people and ensure conformity,
Agreed completely. And a free society does not have conformity which is why we trend against puritanism in the west and not in the Middle East or Middle Ages Europe.
ALERT Super important polls relating to this thread.
First polls asking people of Trump's muslim immigration ban policy, one from San Diego and another from Fresno, California (not your average conservative place):
"Yesterday, Donald Trump called for, quote, "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on." Do you strongly agree with this statement? Somewhat agree? Somewhat disagree? Or strongly disagree?"
"For our part, we’ve forecast the end of Trump’s campaign maybe four or five times. But not this time. Trump’s proposal, whatever the merits, looks to us like a political masterstroke, in large part because of the overwrought reactions it has prompted from Democrats, Republicans and the media alike."
Hmm. Let's see. Trump might be in danger of alienating those Americans who worship the constitution -- guns, free speech and crucially, freedom of religion.
...careful - they worship guns, free speech and their own (often evangelical) Christian religion. Muslims for this demographic are not high on the desirability list. Trump is not a fool. Having a go at the Muzzies is not a stupid thing in pure electoral terms. Many normal decent people are pretty much tired of Islam these days and wish it would just go away. These people vote.
Absolutely. The BBC would have us believe that the public are weeping with shame and outrage, whereas in reality... let's just say that nobody wakes up thinking "You know what Britain needs more of? Tribal illiterate Muslims from the Middle East."
What would be the pros and cons of mulsim immigration to the UK do we think?
Probably the same as all other migration.
With the added bonus that over time educated societies trend towards a more agnostic (if not outright atheist). So Islam will mellow out.
While the puritanical extremists who want a medieval religion get most of the attention this is already in evidence. Most Muslim friends of mine drink alcohol for instance and are about as religious as most Christian friends of mine. I bet the proportion of British Muslims who drink are dramatically higher than Middle East ones. Our western education and freedoms are as much an existential threat to unenlightened Islam as it is to unenlightened Christianity.
Err My dentist is a highly educated , charming and respected professional. His faith in Islam does not appear to have diminished with money and success.. and he does not drink..
Is he puritanical?
Religion was formed from ignorance. People inherit their parents religion by and large but like everything in life it evolves. There is no educated developed society that I know of that is more puritanical than it was in the past.
I imagine most of the Middle East is wealthier and more literate than it was 50 years ago, but also more hard line in matters of religion. A bit like Europe in 1550 compared to 1500.
Indeed. But it's not free. The Middle East is in the past going through the throes of reformation we have been through it. Just as migration to Europe changes Europe, Europe too changes the migrants.
"Just as migration to Europe changes Europe, Europe too changes the migrants."
Whether that is true is the crux of the matter.. "Reflections on the Revolution in Europe", the events in Paris, the make up of the poor parts of large European cities suggests not
It might change them if they were to be successfully integrated, but as we're doing everything in our power to prevent them from integrating, that won't happen. Even that Guardian journalist who covered the Oldham by-election said she met people who had been here for years that couldn't speak English, and had voted but didn't know for who. Incredible!
What would be the pros and cons of mulsim immigration to the UK do we think?
Probably the same as all other migration.
With the added bonus that over time educated societies trend towards a more agnostic (if not outright atheist). So Islam will mellow out.
While the puritanical extremists who want a medieval religion get most of the attention this is already in evidence. Most Muslim friends of mine drink alcohol for instance and are about as religious as most Christian friends of mine. I bet the proportion of British Muslims who drink are dramatically higher than Middle East ones. Our western education and freedoms are as much an existential threat to unenlightened Islam as it is to unenlightened Christianity.
Err My dentist is a highly educated , charming and respected professional. His faith in Islam does not appear to have diminished with money and success.. and he does not drink..
Is he puritanical?
Religion was formed from ignorance. People inherit their parents religion by and large but like everything in life it evolves. There is no educated developed society that I know of that is more puritanical than it was in the past.
I imagine most of the Middle East is wealthier and more literate than it was 50 years ago, but also more hard line in matters of religion. A bit like Europe in 1550 compared to 1500.
Indeed. But it's not free. The Middle East is in the past going through the throes of reformation we have been through it. Just as migration to Europe changes Europe, Europe too changes the migrants.
"The Middle East is in the past going through the throes of reformation we have been through it"
Do you want to try again with that sentence because I for one am totally at a loss as to understand what you are trying to say. Ta.
The Middle East is like us in the past not the present. It is going through the throes of reformation like we did in the past. Migrants to Europe changes Europe but living in Europe changes the migrants.
@GregJRutherford · 26m26 minutes ago Well I was just out walking the dogs... What an amazing turn of events i’ve come home to, all for an awards ceremony...
@GregJRutherford · 25m25 minutes ago I have opinions, of which I was privately clear. I DID pull out of SPOTY, on Sunday I wrote to the BBC requesting removal.
@GregJRutherford · 24m24 minutes ago Throughout the next 2 days the SPOTY team asked me to stay on. Also, I realised my nomination meant so much to my family.
@GregJRutherford · 24m24 minutes ago I then asked myself, do I really want to disappoint my own family just because of a bigot’s views? The answer was no.
@GregJRutherford · 23m23 minutes ago Next thing I know, someone leaks my withdrawal request and the private decision I've made suddenly changes to something much bigger.
GregJRutherford · 23m23 minutes ago So, I will still attend SPOTY, to make my family proud and to thank them for the support in my career, and that’s what I plan to do.
@GregJRutherford · 21m21 minutes ago AND, I'm mega keen to meet Tyson Fury’s riveting, personality-filled little toe
@GregJRutherford · 26m26 minutes ago Well I was just out walking the dogs... What an amazing turn of events i’ve come home to, all for an awards ceremony...
@GregJRutherford · 25m25 minutes ago I have opinions, of which I was privately clear. I DID pull out of SPOTY, on Sunday I wrote to the BBC requesting removal.
@GregJRutherford · 24m24 minutes ago Throughout the next 2 days the SPOTY team asked me to stay on. Also, I realised my nomination meant so much to my family.
@GregJRutherford · 24m24 minutes ago I then asked myself, do I really want to disappoint my own family just because of a bigot’s views? The answer was no.
@GregJRutherford · 23m23 minutes ago Next thing I know, someone leaks my withdrawal request and the private decision I've made suddenly changes to something much bigger.
GregJRutherford · 23m23 minutes ago So, I will still attend SPOTY, to make my family proud and to thank them for the support in my career, and that’s what I plan to do.
@GregJRutherford · 21m21 minutes ago AND, I'm mega keen to meet Tyson Fury’s riveting, personality-filled little toe
@GregJRutherford · 26m26 minutes ago Well I was just out walking the dogs... What an amazing turn of events i’ve come home to, all for an awards ceremony...
@GregJRutherford · 25m25 minutes ago I have opinions, of which I was privately clear. I DID pull out of SPOTY, on Sunday I wrote to the BBC requesting removal.
@GregJRutherford · 24m24 minutes ago Throughout the next 2 days the SPOTY team asked me to stay on. Also, I realised my nomination meant so much to my family.
@GregJRutherford · 24m24 minutes ago I then asked myself, do I really want to disappoint my own family just because of a bigot’s views? The answer was no.
@GregJRutherford · 23m23 minutes ago Next thing I know, someone leaks my withdrawal request and the private decision I've made suddenly changes to something much bigger.
GregJRutherford · 23m23 minutes ago So, I will still attend SPOTY, to make my family proud and to thank them for the support in my career, and that’s what I plan to do.
@GregJRutherford · 21m21 minutes ago AND, I'm mega keen to meet Tyson Fury’s riveting, personality-filled little toe
@GregJRutherford · 26m26 minutes ago Well I was just out walking the dogs... What an amazing turn of events i’ve come home to, all for an awards ceremony...
@GregJRutherford · 25m25 minutes ago I have opinions, of which I was privately clear. I DID pull out of SPOTY, on Sunday I wrote to the BBC requesting removal.
@GregJRutherford · 24m24 minutes ago Throughout the next 2 days the SPOTY team asked me to stay on. Also, I realised my nomination meant so much to my family.
@GregJRutherford · 24m24 minutes ago I then asked myself, do I really want to disappoint my own family just because of a bigot’s views? The answer was no.
@GregJRutherford · 23m23 minutes ago Next thing I know, someone leaks my withdrawal request and the private decision I've made suddenly changes to something much bigger.
GregJRutherford · 23m23 minutes ago So, I will still attend SPOTY, to make my family proud and to thank them for the support in my career, and that’s what I plan to do.
@GregJRutherford · 21m21 minutes ago AND, I'm mega keen to meet Tyson Fury’s riveting, personality-filled little toe
Who is Greg J Rutherford?
European, Commonwealth, Olympic & World champ Long jumper, 600-1 outsider for SPOTY.
Only problem for Ms Eagle is that Labour has got misogyny in its DNA. It is much harder to envisage a female CON leader than a female LAB one. Look at the way Cooper and Kendall were treated during the leadership contest.
How about a female LibDem leader?
If I were a betting man I might have a nibble on Kirsty Williams. I think she will become MP for Brecon and Radnor in 2020 and could become leader shortly afterwards.
The next Lib Dem national Leader may have to come from the House of Lords.
@GregJRutherford · 26m26 minutes ago Well I was just out walking the dogs... What an amazing turn of events i’ve come home to, all for an awards ceremony...
@GregJRutherford · 25m25 minutes ago I have opinions, of which I was privately clear. I DID pull out of SPOTY, on Sunday I wrote to the BBC requesting removal.
@GregJRutherford · 24m24 minutes ago Throughout the next 2 days the SPOTY team asked me to stay on. Also, I realised my nomination meant so much to my family.
@GregJRutherford · 24m24 minutes ago I then asked myself, do I really want to disappoint my own family just because of a bigot’s views? The answer was no.
@GregJRutherford · 23m23 minutes ago Next thing I know, someone leaks my withdrawal request and the private decision I've made suddenly changes to something much bigger.
GregJRutherford · 23m23 minutes ago So, I will still attend SPOTY, to make my family proud and to thank them for the support in my career, and that’s what I plan to do.
@GregJRutherford · 21m21 minutes ago AND, I'm mega keen to meet Tyson Fury’s riveting, personality-filled little toe
Catching up on the Carmichael result, this instinctively feels like the right decision, and what a monumental waste of court time and costs this highly politically-motivated challenge has proved to be. I'm not a Scots lawyer, but I was surprised the case ever got as far as it did.
Bet The National feel like a bunch of chumps with their front page today. Wonder what tomorrow's will bring...? (And will Carmichael have today's framed and hung in his office?!)
Lallands Peat Worrier (whose blog will be very interesting in the next few days, as it always has been on the case) points out the irony of a man getting off on the grounds that his act was politically motivated, complaining that his opponents' action was politically motivated.
twitter.com/PeatWorrier/status/674548169062133760
There are many actions in politics that are "politically motivated". (Duh).
However, I think most people would agree that bringing a criminal case that is political motivated is rather excessive.
Not a criminal case, surely.
Ok, similar to. Substantial defence process and costs; to the same evidentiary standards; with a significant potential punishment of being bared from public office.
So not only has Carmichael been declared a "blatant liar" by the court but also his credibility and reliability as a witness is criticised and he is described as "disingenuous".
Ouch.
Have the Scot Nats found a way to blame Carmichael or Westminster for the Forth Bridge closure ?
Not yet but I expect that they will. Semm to be able to walk on water. But pride cometh before a fall. Fall maybe 2021?
Thanks...ehh, is there not some limitations with that?
Yes, but I think the idea is that you go to just-eat.com as a workaround.
Not quite what I had in mind Richard. Gosh this has been educational.
Some days I consider myself very sad and nerdy. Fortunately, there are people considerably sadder and nerdier than I, a good chunk of whom (apparently) live in Japan.
That is a very positive way of looking at it. I will adopt it. Wasting hours of my life on PB no longer seems odd or nerdy at all, well, not very anyway.
Catching up on the Carmichael result, this instinctively feels like the right decision, and what a monumental waste of court time and costs this highly politically-motivated challenge has proved to be. I'm not a Scots lawyer, but I was surprised the case ever got as far as it did.
Bet The National feel like a bunch of chumps with their front page today. Wonder what tomorrow's will bring...? (And will Carmichael have today's framed and hung in his office?!)
Lallands Peat Worrier (whose blog will be very interesting in the next few days, as it always has been on the case) points out the irony of a man getting off on the grounds that his act was politically motivated, complaining that his opponents' action was politically motivated.
twitter.com/PeatWorrier/status/674548169062133760
There are many actions in politics that are "politically motivated". (Duh).
However, I think most people would agree that bringing a criminal case that is political motivated is rather excessive.
Not a criminal case, surely.
Ok, similar to. Substantial defence process and costs; to the same evidentiary standards; with a significant potential punishment of being bared from public office.
So not only has Carmichael been declared a "blatant liar" by the court but also his credibility and reliability as a witness is criticised and he is described as "disingenuous".
Ouch.
Have the Scot Nats found a way to blame Carmichael or Westminster for the Forth Bridge closure ?
Not yet but I expect that they will. Semm to be able to walk on water. But pride cometh before a fall. Fall maybe 2021?
"Pride goeth before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall" - Proverbs, 16:18
Afternoon. Mr Carmichael survives, so do we know who will be paying the costs of those who brought the case against him?
Well Carmichael survives to embarrass the LD another day. However there is no doubt that no matter who pays the legal costs, that the LD are going to lose their Shetlands seat in the next election, no matter who is their candidate, since this ruling will be used by the SNP to rail the locals against the LD instead of just Carmichael.
I agree. A pyrrhic victory. After the ruling out came the LDs as if Carmichael had been fully cleared and was entirely blameless and innocent. They should have been magnanimous and apologetic for the error of judgement Carmichael made in the heat of a campaign. Instead they sounded triumphalist and attacked their opponents for being partisan.... Apologising and then moving on, could have saved him and his party there. Now we have his opponents armed with all the quotes about his lying to use in election material.
What would be the pros and cons of mulsim immigration to the UK do we think?
Probably the same as all other migration.
With the added bonus that over time educated societies trend towards a more agnostic (if not outright atheist). So Islam will mellow out.
While the puritanical extremists who want a medieval religion get most of the attention this is already in evidence. Most Muslim friends of mine drink alcohol for instance and are about as religious as most Christian friends of mine. I bet the proportion of British Muslims who drink are dramatically higher than Middle East ones. Our western education and freedoms are as much an existential threat to unenlightened Islam as it is to unenlightened Christianity.
Err My dentist is a highly educated , charming and respected professional. His faith in Islam does not appear to have diminished with money and success.. and he does not drink..
Is he puritanical?
Religion was formed from ignorance. People inherit their parents religion by and large but like everything in life it evolves. There is no educated developed society that I know of that is more puritanical than it was in the past.
This poster is trolling on this issue and should be ignored.
No I am not.
Do you deny that religion was formed from ignorance? Religion evolved in the past the world over to explain that which could not be explained. Science has explained what religion gave different answers to.
Do you deny people inherit their parents religion by and large?
Do you claim there are educated developed societies more puritanical now than they were in the past?
Religion also developed to control people and ensure conformity,
Afternoon. Mr Carmichael survives, so do we know who will be paying the costs of those who brought the case against him?
Well Carmichael survives to embarrass the LD another day. However there is no doubt that no matter who pays the legal costs, that the LD are going to lose their Shetlands seat in the next election, no matter who is their candidate, since this ruling will be used by the SNP to rail the locals against the LD instead of just Carmichael.
I agree. A pyrrhic victory. After the ruling out came the LDs as if Carmichael had been fully cleared and was entirely blameless and innocent. They should have been magnanimous and apologetic for the error of judgement Carmichael made in the heat of a campaign. Instead they sounded triumphalist and attacked their opponents for being partisan.... Apologising and then moving on, could have saved him and his party there. Now we have his opponents armed with all the quotes about his lying to use in election material.
I think this is a good result for Carmichael but a poor one for the Lib Dems generally.
Which is all the more entertaining when you remember Mr Osborne might be the next PM and Ms Eagles is probably not the next leader of the opposition
Osborne's back benchers will begin wondering about his fitness to be PM if he cannot handle Ms Eagle. IMHO this was the political betting move of the day.
The Middle East is like us in the past not the present. It is going through the throes of reformation like we did in the past. Migrants to Europe changes Europe but living in Europe changes the migrants.
Make sense?
Yes. Thank you. I cannot agree that the the Middle East is going through a reformation, at least not one that mirrors that of Christian Europe 500 or so years ago.
Furthermore, I would suggest that what the ME needs is an Enlightenment rather than a series of religious wars. If the people of the Middle East to want to engage in their own version of the 30 years war then we should be well advised to keep well clear. Nuclear power, plus fracking, plus renewables should mean that we could leave them to get on with it.
Catching up on the Carmichael result, this instinctively feels like the right decision, and what a monumental waste of court time and costs this highly politically-motivated challenge has proved to be. I'm not a Scots lawyer, but I was surprised the case ever got as far as it did.
Bet The National feel like a bunch of chumps with their front page today. Wonder what tomorrow's will bring...? (And will Carmichael have today's framed and hung in his office?!)
Lallands Peat Worrier (whose blog will be very interesting in the next few days, as it always has been on the case) points out the irony of a man getting off on the grounds that his act was politically motivated, complaining that his opponents' action was politically motivated.
twitter.com/PeatWorrier/status/674548169062133760
There are many actions in politics that are "politically motivated". (Duh).
However, I think most people would agree that bringing a criminal case that is political motivated is rather excessive.
Not a criminal case, surely.
Ok, similar to. Substantial defence process and costs; to the same evidentiary standards; with a significant potential punishment of being bared from public office.
So not only has Carmichael been declared a "blatant liar" by the court but also his credibility and reliability as a witness is criticised and he is described as "disingenuous".
Ouch.
Have the Scot Nats found a way to blame Carmichael or Westminster for the Forth Bridge closure ?
Not yet but I expect that they will. Semm to be able to walk on water. But pride cometh before a fall. Fall maybe 2021?
"Pride goeth before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall" - Proverbs, 16:18
Destruction is a bit harsh. Just a lost job promotion.....
1000 unexplained deaths in Southern Trust over the past 4 years, some one remind me which party has been in government over that period and is ultimately responsible?
Amusing pot and kettle attack website from the Tories, particularly on Heathrow:
To be fair, you can't accuse Zac of being inconsistent on Heathrow!
I'm actually a bit puzzled by Sadiq's U-turn on Heathrow. I'd have thought he'd be better off positioning himself as the champion of business against the wealthy nimbys of Richmond. Of course, it's true that for some voters opposition to Heathrow is the most important issue, but they're probably going to back Zac anyway.
Afternoon. Mr Carmichael survives, so do we know who will be paying the costs of those who brought the case against him?
Well Carmichael survives to embarrass the LD another day. However there is no doubt that no matter who pays the legal costs, that the LD are going to lose their Shetlands seat in the next election, no matter who is their candidate, since this ruling will be used by the SNP to rail the locals against the LD instead of just Carmichael.
I agree. A pyrrhic victory. After the ruling out came the LDs as if Carmichael had been fully cleared and was entirely blameless and innocent. They should have been magnanimous and apologetic for the error of judgement Carmichael made in the heat of a campaign. Instead they sounded triumphalist and attacked their opponents for being partisan.... Apologising and then moving on, could have saved him and his party there. Now we have his opponents armed with all the quotes about his lying to use in election material.
I think this is a good result for Carmichael but a poor one for the Lib Dems generally.
The Lib Dems seem to have lost any concern about the image of their party's brand. The episodes with Huhne and Rennard etc, indicate a complete absence of anyone at the centre caring about the damage done to their party's image. They just stand back letting matters drag on and on and on, with the damage just getting worse. In the Conservatives they also have a problem at the centre, but they eventually act quicker than the LDs albeit not quickly enough.
Mr. Llama, indeed. They've tried religious wars for quite a while...
Poor Pyrrhus. He was a rather good general. He beat the Romans in two out of three battles, and lost the third, at least partially, due to bad luck.
He was content to win all Sicily save a port (Lilybaeum, perhaps) which was in Carthaginian hands. But his supporters/allies demanded he reduce it, and when he raised taxes to construct a fleet, they turned their coats against him.
Simon Carr is wasted on Guido. The best political sketch writer by a distance. Funny but always aware of the underlying movement.
I don't think Osbo did his leadership prospects a huge amount of good today and this article points that out deftly. It also points out there was a very good chance to make Corbyn look really foolish with Eagles' help. Referring to having a letter from Donald in Brussels shows she was well up for that.
Ocheye..The people ultimately responsible are the medical practitioners and management team at the trust..as it does not occur in every trust then that points to a failure in the hospitals procedural structure...not the NHS
@PolhomeEditor: Alistair Carmichael is going to pursue his accusers to cover his legal costs, I'm told. "It'll be ballpark £150,000," says a Lib Dem source
I hope those Nats who cheered them on will be as generous after defeat as they were before....
I will be the opposite, I did not fund the action as I thought it had zero chance of being heard never mind succeding but I will chip in to bail them out if they ask for it.
@PolhomeEditor: Alistair Carmichael is going to pursue his accusers to cover his legal costs, I'm told. "It'll be ballpark £150,000," says a Lib Dem source
I hope those Nats who cheered them on will be as generous after defeat as they were before....
I will be the opposite, I did not fund the action as I thought it had zero chance of being heard never mind succeding but I will chip in to bail them out if they ask for it.
Its a lot of money, but I think it may well turn out to be foolish of him.
Comments
Do you want to try again with that sentence because I for one am totally at a loss as to understand what you are trying to say. Ta.
Whether that is true is the crux of the matter.. "Reflections on the Revolution in Europe", the events in Paris, the make up of the poor parts of large European cities suggests not in many cases
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35049628
Do you deny that religion was formed from ignorance? Religion evolved in the past the world over to explain that which could not be explained. Science has explained what religion gave different answers to.
Do you deny people inherit their parents religion by and large?
Do you claim there are educated developed societies more puritanical now than they were in the past?
innocent face.
EDIT I think I have done it again in this one!
http://order-order.com/2015/12/09/pmqs-sketch-osborne-red-faced-and-shouty-v-rock-rock-star-angela/
Make sense?
Well I was just out walking the dogs... What an amazing turn of events i’ve come home to, all for an awards ceremony...
@GregJRutherford · 25m25 minutes ago
I have opinions, of which I was privately clear. I DID pull out of SPOTY, on Sunday I wrote to the BBC requesting removal.
@GregJRutherford · 24m24 minutes ago
Throughout the next 2 days the SPOTY team asked me to stay on. Also, I realised my nomination meant so much to my family.
@GregJRutherford · 24m24 minutes ago
I then asked myself, do I really want to disappoint my own family just because of a bigot’s views? The answer was no.
@GregJRutherford · 23m23 minutes ago
Next thing I know, someone leaks my withdrawal request and the private decision I've made suddenly changes to something much bigger.
GregJRutherford · 23m23 minutes ago
So, I will still attend SPOTY, to make my family proud and to thank them for the support in my career, and that’s what I plan to do.
@GregJRutherford · 21m21 minutes ago
AND, I'm mega keen to meet Tyson Fury’s riveting, personality-filled little toe
Oh right! I have never heard of him, but if he can get enough publicity with those tweets, he might be a value bet at 600s!
- Proverbs, 16:18
http://sadiqwatch.com/
Sadiq Khan backed a third runway at Heathrow when he was Transport Minister… (Source: Evening Standard, 17 June 2009)
…but now he wants to be Mayor of London, he claims to oppose it. (Source: Evening Standard, 16 June 2015)
Sadiq Khan will say anything, and he’ll deliver nothing. SHARE this post to let friends know.
Furthermore, I would suggest that what the ME needs is an Enlightenment rather than a series of religious wars. If the people of the Middle East to want to engage in their own version of the 30 years war then we should be well advised to keep well clear. Nuclear power, plus fracking, plus renewables should mean that we could leave them to get on with it.
I'm actually a bit puzzled by Sadiq's U-turn on Heathrow. I'd have thought he'd be better off positioning himself as the champion of business against the wealthy nimbys of Richmond. Of course, it's true that for some voters opposition to Heathrow is the most important issue, but they're probably going to back Zac anyway.
Poor Pyrrhus. He was a rather good general. He beat the Romans in two out of three battles, and lost the third, at least partially, due to bad luck.
He was content to win all Sicily save a port (Lilybaeum, perhaps) which was in Carthaginian hands. But his supporters/allies demanded he reduce it, and when he raised taxes to construct a fleet, they turned their coats against him.
I don't think Osbo did his leadership prospects a huge amount of good today and this article points that out deftly. It also points out there was a very good chance to make Corbyn look really foolish with Eagles' help. Referring to having a letter from Donald in Brussels shows she was well up for that.