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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The latest PB/Polling Matters Podcast – Reflections on Oldh

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  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,053

    Blimey (NB the actual tweet isn't asterisked!)

    @election_data@election_data 18 minutes ago

    Angry blog coming later. Nobody will be spared.

    @election_data@election_data 4 minutes ago

    You c*nts on Twitter have the front, the brass neck, to mock me on Twitter after all that I have done. This blog's gonna be fun.

    Oh my Lord, how much did he pile on UKIP for ?
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    Excellent news re Cyclefree too.
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    Great new, Cyclefree! Have a fine weekend!
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :smiley: I imagine a few of local faithful are wondering why they worked so hard for someone keen to dump them 6 months later.

    I wonder what her local Party thinks of this newbie http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/12032792/Tory-MP-who-branded-George-Osborne-too-smooth-would-prefer-to-be-independent.html

    I'm all for independent mindedness, this seems a bit rich.

    DESELECT THE WITCH
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    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey (NB the actual tweet isn't asterisked!)

    @election_data@election_data 18 minutes ago

    Angry blog coming later. Nobody will be spared.

    @election_data@election_data 4 minutes ago

    You c*nts on Twitter have the front, the brass neck, to mock me on Twitter after all that I have done. This blog's gonna be fun.

    Oh my Lord, how much did he pile on UKIP for ?
    Account hacked?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,324

    Have you seen Lighthouse Stevensons on BBC4? Good docu on engineering challeges and dynasty.

    For anyone not bored by it, here's the New Civil Engineer's take on the Firth Bridge problems:
    http://www.nce.co.uk/news/structures/forth-bridge-defective-member-previously-deemed-not-highly-stressed/8692911.article

    Sounds quite worrying that they didn't think the failed member was highly stressed. This has to put the medium-term future of the bridge in doubt.

    Aye, I've seen that. I've also got a reproduction of Stevenson's book of the building of the Bell Rock light (*). And a view of Edinburgh showing his house on the kitchen wall.

    In addition, I've just received a book on Victorian warships that a gent on here recommended.

    Do you get the impression I like engineering ?

    (*) And you too, dear reader, can read it here:
    https://archive.org/details/stevensonbell1824stev
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    There's a brand new blog with no posts yet.

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey (NB the actual tweet isn't asterisked!)

    @election_data@election_data 18 minutes ago

    Angry blog coming later. Nobody will be spared.

    @election_data@election_data 4 minutes ago

    You c*nts on Twitter have the front, the brass neck, to mock me on Twitter after all that I have done. This blog's gonna be fun.

    Oh my Lord, how much did he pile on UKIP for ?
    Account hacked?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,411
    edited December 2015
    Sandpit said:

    NYT on the case of Zuckerberg tax planning, I mean giving his fortune away to himself. They dissect his latest spin about how it isn't tax efficient to do so and the claim that they will pay capital gains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html

    I wonder how much of this - apart from the good publicity - is a cover for huge sales of a stock that could be worthless in a few years' time as technology marches on?

    He would rather bank a billion in real money than rely on a theoretical multiple of that in his own company's shares.
    Well the good PR is going down the tubes pretty quickly, because the whole announcement has been found out to be spin. 99% of his fortune, mutter quietly over the course of his whole life, mutter quietly into an LLC that he controls, so not exactly "giving it away" and said LLC can invest for profit, for giving, for LOBBYING...

    I don't think as some as suggested the only for the reason of one massive tax dodge. I think it is more that he has been advised that this is the most flexible way in which he can secure and control his fortune during his lifetime and continuing on for his offspring, while being able to give money away as and when he wants. Its win win, other than for the US government.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,053
    'Wet Heidi' would perhaps be more at home with the Lib Dems, but they're annihilated as a force so for the expediency of her career had to go with the Tories.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,171

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dair said:

    TGOHF said:

    SNP can't even keep the bridges open

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35001277

    Yeah they should be spending money on replacing this aging relic.

    Of course that would take years, it's a shame they lack the foresight to predict problems and start something back in, say, 2011, to replace it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensferry_Crossing
    A similar thing happened near Manchester a decade or so ago, as anyone who used the M6 will attest. The difference there being that they managed to get the new bridge open before the old one started crumbling.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thelwall_Viaduct
    The replacement bridge was blocked by the Labour Party for years, the SNP began the plans as soon as they formed the government.

    Any issues with the timing overlap are entirely the fault of SLAB.
    I'm not sure that's the case. The full extent of the problems in the bridge were discovered in 2005. The SNP minority government was formed in May 2007. In June 2007 the Forth Replacement Crossing Study (2007) was released, recommending a bridge. Earlier parts of the report were released in February 2007, before the SNP came to power.

    It seems sensible to do a study into the alternatives (I favoured a tunnel, but I would) before detailed planning. And the Labour government commissioned that report.

    http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/road/forth-replacement-crossing/forth-replacement-crossing-study-2007
    Wouldn't a tunnel need to be very, very steep given the geology? Or very long and expensive to even out the gradient.
    As an aside, something I found whilst looking for this: there was once a tunnel under the Forth:
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/scotland-blog/2014/apr/30/scotland-firthofforth-coal
    Fantastic story! - amazing the things we can collectively dig up here. Love the tale about measuring with piano wire and plotting against OS maps - to meet in the middle only 5cm away from perfect. No lasers, GPS or gyroscopes 50 years ago!
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited December 2015
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/12033197/Two-MPs-being-investigated-by-police-over-expenses.html
    One of the cases is closed but Scotland Yard's Special Inquiry team, which handles high-profile inquiries, is still investigating two others.

    Both the Metropolitan Police and Ipsa refused to disclose the identity of the MPs while the investigation is ongoing.

    It examined allegations involving a third MP but decided that there was no case to answer.

    However, Scotland Yard told the Evening Standard that in this case a 33-year-old female aide accepted a caution in April this year for fraud by false representation.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,139
    edited December 2015

    I wonder what her local Party thinks of this newbie http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/12032792/Tory-MP-who-branded-George-Osborne-too-smooth-would-prefer-to-be-independent.html

    I'm all for independent mindedness, this seems a bit rich.

    I don't follow her reasoning. Sure, we all want people who do not slavishly follow a party line, that's why most people don't mind MPs of their own party rebelling on occasion, it only becomes an issue when they do it so often that you question why they are on the team at all. But outright saying she would prefer to be an independent? Why not stand as an 'Independent Conservative' or something if she leans that way politically but wants no pressure to follow specific proposals?

    It's actually slightly different from serial rebels like Corbyn (or now the anti-Corbyn brigade) who might rebel like they were independent but are clear they want to change the mind of the party and get it going in a new direction, they are still part of the movement, they believe in whipping and so on, they just disagree with the leadership. This seems like saying she doesn't care about the party at all, it was just a vehicle to get elected. Which is probably true of quite a few MPs in all liklihood, so at least she's honest about it.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,411
    edited December 2015
    Yentob won't face BBC Trust inquiry over Kids Company as he has quit

    The BBC’s governing body will not investigate accusations that Alan Yentob tried to influence the BBC’s coverage of Kids Company, because now he has stepped down as creative director it is “not proportionate, appropriate or cost effective”.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/dec/03/yentob-wont-face-bbc-trust-probe-over-kids-company-as-he-has-quit

    Arhhhh now it is becoming clear...What a f##king stitch up. He still remains working there for £180k a year, still has his £6.5 million pension, and no investigation into his behaviour.

    It is like all those higher up involved in Jimmy Saville scandal...just conveniently shifted around the deckchairs.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    chestnut said:

    I know it doesn't seem immediately apparent but Labour and UKIP motivated the same proportion (73%) of their May 2015 vote to turnout. Labour did no better than UKIP, and UKIP no worse than Labour.

    The headline percentage change is almost entirely down to Tories not bothering to vote or take sides because:

    a) The seat is unwinnable;
    b) There is a Tory government in place until 2020;

    The big issue for UKIP is that Tories may see no reason to support them tactically whilst the parliamentary arithmetic is what it is. So, how can they break through?

    The only thing I can see to help them is Corbyn dragging Labour further left.

    By elections are a big opportunity for the challenger party to get a big swing, here's some examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_by-election_records.

    It's clear that UKIP have failed to take advantage of that opportunity. Retaining 73% of their GE vote is not great when you're the obvious challenger.
    I agree that they should have been looking for an improvement.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693

    NYT on the case of Zuckerberg tax planning, I mean giving his fortune away to himself. They dissect his latest spin about how it isn't tax efficient to do so and the claim that they will pay capital gains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html

    It is a bit of a problem, having $40bn.

    What do you actually spend it on?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,411
    edited December 2015
    Pong said:

    NYT on the case of Zuckerberg tax planning, I mean giving his fortune away to himself. They dissect his latest spin about how it isn't tax efficient to do so and the claim that they will pay capital gains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html

    It is a bit of a problem, having $40bn.

    What do you actually spend it on?
    $40bn ON PAPER....

    Although I am a lot more confident in Facebook for the short / mid term, than Twitter and alike.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    That's my impression too. I think power has gone to her head.
    kle4 said:

    I wonder what her local Party thinks of this newbie http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/12032792/Tory-MP-who-branded-George-Osborne-too-smooth-would-prefer-to-be-independent.html

    I'm all for independent mindedness, this seems a bit rich.

    I don't follow her reasoning. Sure, we all want people who do not slavishly follow a party line, that's why most people don't mind MPs of their own party rebelling on occasion, it only becomes an issue when they do it so often that you question why they are on the team at all. But outright saying she would prefer to be an independent? Why not stand as an 'Independent Conservative' or something if she leans that way politically but wants no pressure to follow specific proposals?

    It's actually slightly different from serial rebels like Corbyn (or now the anti-Corbyn brigade) who might rebel like they were independent but are clear they want to change the mind of the party and get it going in a new direction, they are still part of the movement, they believe in whipping and so on, they just disagree with the leadership. This seems like saying she doesn't care about the party at all, it was just a vehicle to get elected. Which is probably true of quite a few MPs in all liklihood, so at least she's honest about it.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited December 2015

    chestnut said:

    I know it doesn't seem immediately apparent but Labour and UKIP motivated the same proportion (73%) of their May 2015 vote to turnout. Labour did no better than UKIP, and UKIP no worse than Labour.

    The headline percentage change is almost entirely down to Tories not bothering to vote or take sides because:

    a) The seat is unwinnable;
    b) There is a Tory government in place until 2020;

    The big issue for UKIP is that Tories may see no reason to support them tactically whilst the parliamentary arithmetic is what it is. So, how can they break through?

    The only thing I can see to help them is Corbyn dragging Labour further left.

    By elections are a big opportunity for the challenger party to get a big swing, here's some examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_by-election_records.

    It's clear that UKIP have failed to take advantage of that opportunity. Retaining 73% of their GE vote is not great when you're the obvious challenger.

    Here's what the UKIP candidate was saying a few days ago:
    "If Ukip doesn’t win — something Bickley is admits is very possible — he thinks Thursday’s vote will be a big moment for the party. ‘Either way, we are back in the game because we’ll either win it and it’s a game changer or we’ll get a brilliant second place’. He won’t be drawn on what would count as a success but the local Ukip operation is optimistic about their chances."
    The lack of expectation management is staggering. I know some of the polling before the general election showed UKIP winning seats, however, once the people who had not voted previously were removed they did not win the seat. I wonder if UKIP's problem is that they are popular just with a large number of people who do not vote.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Imelda would have trouble spending that on shoes.
    Pong said:

    NYT on the case of Zuckerberg tax planning, I mean giving his fortune away to himself. They dissect his latest spin about how it isn't tax efficient to do so and the claim that they will pay capital gains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html

    It is a bit of a problem, having $40bn.

    What do you actually spend it on?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,324
    edited December 2015

    Pong said:

    NYT on the case of Zuckerberg tax planning, I mean giving his fortune away to himself. They dissect his latest spin about how it isn't tax efficient to do so and the claim that they will pay capital gains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html

    It is a bit of a problem, having $40bn.

    What do you actually spend it on?
    $40bn ON PAPER....

    Although I am a lot more confident in Facebook for the short / mid term, than Twitter and alike.
    Facebook should be fine as long as they keep innovating. As you say, Twitter's probably a different matter.

    edit: I still remember when I first head of Google. Another engineer told me of a brilliant search engine that might just render fast in our browser ... :)
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    Cyclefree said:

    Hello all,

    A beautiful day here in London. Perfect weather this weekend for me to finish planting my spring bulbs: allium and tulips and iris.

    A touch of hyperbole I think over Oldham: Labour holds onto safe seat with reduced majority 7 months after a general election doesn't strike me as sensational.

    Anyway, the reason for my good humour this morning is that I have finally got the all clear re the cancer scare - after a lot of tests etc and monitoring for quite some time, no immediate need to go off to radiotherapy and the rest of it. Various other things wrong that I need to deal with but these are not, fortunately, terminal.

    So I am like Tigger on speed today, bouncing around with happiness!!

    A big thank you to all PBers for your kind wishes.

    Super news. Go and celebrate being freed of the yoke of worry!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,053
    Pong said:

    NYT on the case of Zuckerberg tax planning, I mean giving his fortune away to himself. They dissect his latest spin about how it isn't tax efficient to do so and the claim that they will pay capital gains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html

    It is a bit of a problem, having $40bn.

    What do you actually spend it on?
    I spend the first £30 of last night's winnings backing Khan at 1.99 on Betfair.

    Just £39,999,999,970 to go.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    BREAKING

    Met Police investigating two cases of alleged misuse of MPs' expenses - BBC

    52 Nats ? :D
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    glwglw Posts: 9,556
    Fantastic news Cyclefree. Thankfully I've never had to personally wait on such results, but I know what a total f*cking nightmare it is waiting for news regarding close relatives. When you get some good news the feeling of relief is overwhelming, and it sure as hell puts life's smaller problems in some perspective.

    I hope the weather remains especially warm and sunny for you.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,171
    edited December 2015

    Sandpit said:

    NYT on the case of Zuckerberg tax planning, I mean giving his fortune away to himself. They dissect his latest spin about how it isn't tax efficient to do so and the claim that they will pay capital gains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html

    I wonder how much of this - apart from the good publicity - is a cover for huge sales of a stock that could be worthless in a few years' time as technology marches on?

    He would rather bank a billion in real money than rely on a theoretical multiple of that in his own company's shares.
    Well the good PR is going down the tubes pretty quickly, because the whole announcement has been found out to be spin. 99% of his fortune, mutter quietly over the course of his whole life, mutter quietly into an LLC that he controls, so not exactly "giving it away" and said LLC can invest for profit, for giving, for LOBBYING...

    I don't think as some as suggested the only for the reason of one massive tax dodge. I think it is more that he has been advised that this is the most flexible way in which he can secure and control his fortune during his lifetime and continuing on for his offspring, while being able to give money away as and when he wants. Its win win, other than for the US government.
    Agree with the financial structure, but calling it a charity is, as you say, taking it way too far. He was probably trying to engineer comparisons with Bill Gates, who did give billions of dollars to charity.

    But this is the company that convinced their human product that they were in fact the customers, of course they are scumbags. But they got the nice baby photos on the front pages, so mission accomplished in terms of the masses.

    So long as he can keep the fake charity story in the financial pages, and not have Trevor Noah and Stephen Colbert calling him a scumbag, then he will have got away with it.
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    Cyclefree said:

    Hello all,

    A beautiful day here in London. Perfect weather this weekend for me to finish planting my spring bulbs: allium and tulips and iris.

    A touch of hyperbole I think over Oldham: Labour holds onto safe seat with reduced majority 7 months after a general election doesn't strike me as sensational.

    Anyway, the reason for my good humour this morning is that I have finally got the all clear re the cancer scare - after a lot of tests etc and monitoring for quite some time, no immediate need to go off to radiotherapy and the rest of it. Various other things wrong that I need to deal with but these are not, fortunately, terminal.

    So I am like Tigger on speed today, bouncing around with happiness!!

    A big thank you to all PBers for your kind wishes.

    Super news. Go and celebrate being freed of the yoke of worry!
    Brilliant news.
  • Options

    Pong said:

    NYT on the case of Zuckerberg tax planning, I mean giving his fortune away to himself. They dissect his latest spin about how it isn't tax efficient to do so and the claim that they will pay capital gains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html

    It is a bit of a problem, having $40bn.

    What do you actually spend it on?
    $40bn ON PAPER....

    Although I am a lot more confident in Facebook for the short / mid term, than Twitter and alike.
    Facebook should be fine as long as they keep innovating. As you say, Twitter's probably a different matter.
    Facebook have made some good buys (although don't know about the money paid for) e.g. The kids have to some extent moved on from Twitter etc, they WhatApp, and Facebook bought them. So they have Facebook that is making money and used by the oldies and WhatApp that makes money and is used by the youngsters.

    Where as Twitter is used by the likes of journos and is continues to burn money like there is no tomorrow, with no real plan of how to start to make serious income.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,139

    Pong said:

    NYT on the case of Zuckerberg tax planning, I mean giving his fortune away to himself. They dissect his latest spin about how it isn't tax efficient to do so and the claim that they will pay capital gains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html

    It is a bit of a problem, having $40bn.

    What do you actually spend it on?
    $40bn ON PAPER....

    Although I am a lot more confident in Facebook for the short / mid term, than Twitter and alike.
    Facebook should be fine as long as they keep innovating. As you say, Twitter's probably a different matter.

    edit: I still remember when I first head of Google. Another engineer told me of a brilliant search engine that might just render fast in our browser ... :)
    Genuine question, why did Google beat out all the other search engines (in the West anyway)? What about it, or the circumstances, led them to becoming the dominant force?
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    kle4 said:

    Pong said:

    NYT on the case of Zuckerberg tax planning, I mean giving his fortune away to himself. They dissect his latest spin about how it isn't tax efficient to do so and the claim that they will pay capital gains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html

    It is a bit of a problem, having $40bn.

    What do you actually spend it on?
    $40bn ON PAPER....

    Although I am a lot more confident in Facebook for the short / mid term, than Twitter and alike.
    Facebook should be fine as long as they keep innovating. As you say, Twitter's probably a different matter.

    edit: I still remember when I first head of Google. Another engineer told me of a brilliant search engine that might just render fast in our browser ... :)
    Genuine question, why did Google beat out all the other search engines (in the West anyway)? What about it, or the circumstances, led them to becoming the dominant force?
    There was a period (in the early 2000s, iirc) when they gave by far the best results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank
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    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    In the Podcast, one of the people mention that 30,000 labour party members have left since JC became Leader. to me that's a very high number to go so quickly. I thought at most members who oppose him would just stop renewing their membership, or may even stay in and stay for there chance to vote in the next leadership election.

    Has anybody else herd this number, or could they point me to any link/reference?
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited December 2015


    I spend the first £30 of last night's winnings backing Khan at 1.99 on Betfair.

    Just £39,999,999,970 to go.
    pft. That's no sensible way to spend the money.

    You'll just make your original problem worse......
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    kle4 said:

    Pong said:

    NYT on the case of Zuckerberg tax planning, I mean giving his fortune away to himself. They dissect his latest spin about how it isn't tax efficient to do so and the claim that they will pay capital gains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html

    It is a bit of a problem, having $40bn.

    What do you actually spend it on?
    $40bn ON PAPER....

    Although I am a lot more confident in Facebook for the short / mid term, than Twitter and alike.
    Facebook should be fine as long as they keep innovating. As you say, Twitter's probably a different matter.

    edit: I still remember when I first head of Google. Another engineer told me of a brilliant search engine that might just render fast in our browser ... :)
    Genuine question, why did Google beat out all the other search engines (in the West anyway)? What about it, or the circumstances, led them to becoming the dominant force?
    Initially it was a superior algorithm, based on uni research. The trick was to rank results based on how many other sites linked to the site in question (this provides a kind of popularity factor which seemed to chime with what people were looking for). The ranking ability was so much better than anyone else Google quickly became popular.

    Their next trick was to charge for adverts and to introduce a sort of bidding process to buy adverts in with the search rank lists for a particular keyword. So getting your business included when people type 'buy a new car' into the search engine was quickly bid up to a high price. Google was a pure money making machine from that point.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Comrade Grintz Twitter Account is suspended.

    He will have enjoyed taking the BBC for a ride.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Worth remembering that the maintenance of the Forth Road Bridge was privatised by the SNP....


    http://www.davidhumeinstitute.com/snp-will-nationalise-forth-bridge-privatise-maintenance/

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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    I wonder what her local Party thinks of this newbie http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/12032792/Tory-MP-who-branded-George-Osborne-too-smooth-would-prefer-to-be-independent.html

    I'm all for independent mindedness, this seems a bit rich.

    She does come over as being a bit like Luna Lovegood.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited December 2015

    kle4 said:

    Pong said:

    NYT on the case of Zuckerberg tax planning, I mean giving his fortune away to himself. They dissect his latest spin about how it isn't tax efficient to do so and the claim that they will pay capital gains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html

    It is a bit of a problem, having $40bn.

    What do you actually spend it on?
    $40bn ON PAPER....

    Although I am a lot more confident in Facebook for the short / mid term, than Twitter and alike.
    Facebook should be fine as long as they keep innovating. As you say, Twitter's probably a different matter.

    edit: I still remember when I first head of Google. Another engineer told me of a brilliant search engine that might just render fast in our browser ... :)
    Genuine question, why did Google beat out all the other search engines (in the West anyway)? What about it, or the circumstances, led them to becoming the dominant force?
    There was a period (in the early 2000s, iirc) when they gave by far the best results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank
    Google nailed simplicity, accuracy and speed in a way noone else did back in the late '90's/early 2000's

    And they were able to do it without throwing stupid ads for foot cream at you, which is what everyone else was doing at the time.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Cyclefree said:

    Hello all,

    A beautiful day here in London. Perfect weather this weekend for me to finish planting my spring bulbs: allium and tulips and iris.

    A touch of hyperbole I think over Oldham: Labour holds onto safe seat with reduced majority 7 months after a general election doesn't strike me as sensational.

    Anyway, the reason for my good humour this morning is that I have finally got the all clear re the cancer scare - after a lot of tests etc and monitoring for quite some time, no immediate need to go off to radiotherapy and the rest of it. Various other things wrong that I need to deal with but these are not, fortunately, terminal.

    So I am like Tigger on speed today, bouncing around with happiness!!

    A big thank you to all PBers for your kind wishes.

    Brilliant news. Enjoy the bouncing :)
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    Cyclefree said:

    Hello all,

    A beautiful day here in London. Perfect weather this weekend for me to finish planting my spring bulbs: allium and tulips and iris.

    A touch of hyperbole I think over Oldham: Labour holds onto safe seat with reduced majority 7 months after a general election doesn't strike me as sensational.

    Anyway, the reason for my good humour this morning is that I have finally got the all clear re the cancer scare - after a lot of tests etc and monitoring for quite some time, no immediate need to go off to radiotherapy and the rest of it. Various other things wrong that I need to deal with but these are not, fortunately, terminal.

    So I am like Tigger on speed today, bouncing around with happiness!!

    A big thank you to all PBers for your kind wishes.

    I'm very pleased to hear it.
  • Options
    Here's a good (though long) article on why twitter will probably fail eventually:

    https://www.baekdal.com/opinion/not-even-twitter-understands-twitter/

    Summary: twitter doesn't understand its own product at all.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,171
    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Toby Young ‏@toadmeister Nov 30
    Just stuck £25 on Lady C to win #ImACeleb at 25/1

    Toby Young @toadmeister Nov 29

    Just placed a bet on UKIP to win in Oldham West. 11/4. Wish I had got on earlier!!

    Good betting week for Toby!!

    Ha. What are his tips for GOP and POTUS? It's high time we all started focusing on the next big betting event.
    SPOTY
    Andy McMurray bigger shoe in than Labour in Oldham West
    The value is in Tyson Fury.
    He seems to be the latest target of the SJW illiberal liberals, for having an incorrect opinion.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/sports-personality-of-the-year/12032967/BBC-urged-to-drop-Tyson-Fury-from-SPOTY-shortlist-over-homophobic-and-misogynist-comments.html
    BBC urged to drop Tyson Fury from SPOTY shortlist over homophobic and misogynist comments
    Boxer said fellow Sports Personality contender Jessica Ennis-Hill "looks quite fit when she's got a dress on" and believes homosexuality should be criminalised
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    Pong said:

    NYT on the case of Zuckerberg tax planning, I mean giving his fortune away to himself. They dissect his latest spin about how it isn't tax efficient to do so and the claim that they will pay capital gains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html

    It is a bit of a problem, having $40bn.

    What do you actually spend it on?
    $40bn ON PAPER....

    Although I am a lot more confident in Facebook for the short / mid term, than Twitter and alike.
    Facebook should be fine as long as they keep innovating. As you say, Twitter's probably a different matter.

    edit: I still remember when I first head of Google. Another engineer told me of a brilliant search engine that might just render fast in our browser ... :)
    Genuine question, why did Google beat out all the other search engines (in the West anyway)? What about it, or the circumstances, led them to becoming the dominant force?
    Initially it was a superior algorithm, based on uni research. The trick was to rank results based on how many other sites linked to the site in question (this provides a kind of popularity factor which seemed to chime with what people were looking for). The ranking ability was so much better than anyone else Google quickly became popular.

    Their next trick was to charge for adverts and to introduce a sort of bidding process to buy adverts in with the search rank lists for a particular keyword. So getting your business included when people type 'buy a new car' into the search engine was quickly bid up to a high price. Google was a pure money making machine from that point.
    It is still superior search algorithms. Nobody else has come close in terms of speed, efficiency and accuracy. Does help if you have basically unlimited funds and the brightest minds working on the problem.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    Genuine question, why did Google beat out all the other search engines (in the West anyway)? What about it, or the circumstances, led them to becoming the dominant force?

    There were two factors. When they started, a search engine called Alta Vista was the most used, but it had two big problems.

    The first was that it came up with hundreds of garbage results. For example, if you did a search on a company's name you'd get zillions of hits of CVs of people who'd once worked with the company or used its products. Google's algorithms stripped out the junk and gave you the most relevant results.

    The other really, really smart thing Google did was not have any adverts on the search page. All of their competitors at the time had really cluttered pages full of blinking ads and other garbage, because that was how they got their revenues. To this day, Google's search page remains really clean. Of course Google needed a lot of financial backing to be able to afford to build their systems with very little revenue to start with.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,411
    edited December 2015
    dr_spyn said:

    Comrade Grintz Twitter Account is suspended.

    He will have enjoyed taking the BBC for a ride.

    He will be back, just like his 27 other different incarnations. I wonder what made the BBC think he was for real? I mean he claimed to be a BBC employee of all things, you would have thought a quick call to HR would have revealed if that was true or not. And a quick google would have told them he has a very "unreliable" past online. Tommy Robinson clocked him when he was getting trolled by him, so should they.
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    Pong said:

    NYT on the case of Zuckerberg tax planning, I mean giving his fortune away to himself. They dissect his latest spin about how it isn't tax efficient to do so and the claim that they will pay capital gains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html

    It is a bit of a problem, having $40bn.

    What do you actually spend it on?
    $40bn ON PAPER....

    Although I am a lot more confident in Facebook for the short / mid term, than Twitter and alike.
    Facebook should be fine as long as they keep innovating. As you say, Twitter's probably a different matter.

    edit: I still remember when I first head of Google. Another engineer told me of a brilliant search engine that might just render fast in our browser ... :)
    Genuine question, why did Google beat out all the other search engines (in the West anyway)? What about it, or the circumstances, led them to becoming the dominant force?
    There was a period (in the early 2000s, iirc) when they gave by far the best results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank
    One thing I recall when someone showed me google for the first time was how fast it seemed. Internet searches in the late 90s were rather ponderous, at least on the systems I was using... Ask Jeeves was particularly slow, but Yahoo search wasn't especially fast either. When I started using the web, I think I would often wait 30 seconds or more to get my results (or perhaps it just felt that way).

    For regular web searches I switched to google pretty quickly, particularly since the quality of its results was so much better, though I sometimes found that Ask Jeeves gave a relevant and interesting result that google didn't pick up on (though like many other search engines, its results also contained some utter junk). In fact what was so much better about google's results was that there was so little crud in the results. Even on quite important topics, other search engines would often throw you the odd thing that was utterly irrelevant, and quite a lot of pages that were low-quality personal sites that had been chucked onto a web-ring somewhere. (Heh, are there still "web rings"?)

    For a couple of years, google didn't have much in the way of media searches, and I used Alta Vista for images and (particularly) videos.
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited December 2015
    Cyclefree said:

    Hello all,

    So I am like Tigger on speed today, bouncing around with happiness!!

    A big thank you to all PBers for your kind wishes.

    That really is great, great news Ms Cyclefree, enjoy the gardening and sunshine while it lasts.
  • Options
    I'm off to a wedding near Brighton of someone who has played a huge part in the development of PB. I think he'd like to remain anonymous soI won't reveal his posting identity.

    Lovely December day here in Sussex
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Great news Cyclefree!
  • Options
    dr_spyn said:

    Comrade Grintz Twitter Account is suspended.

    He will have enjoyed taking the BBC for a ride.

    Shame. It was just getting going.
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    Genuine question, why did Google beat out all the other search engines (in the West anyway)? What about it, or the circumstances, led them to becoming the dominant force?

    There were two factors. When they started, a search engine called Alta Vista was the most used, but it had two big problems.

    The first was that it came up with hundreds of garbage results. For example, if you did a search on a company's name you'd get zillions of hits of CVs of people who'd once worked with the company or used its products. Google's algorithms stripped out the junk and gave you the most relevant results.

    The other really, really smart thing Google did was not have any adverts on the search page. All of their competitors at the time had really cluttered pages full of blinking ads and other garbage, because that was how they got their revenues. To this day, Google's search page remains really clean. Of course Google needed a lot of financial backing to be able to afford to build their systems with very little revenue to start with.
    If I remember correctly another ingenious thing they did was developed their algorithms to run on low cost self-built custom hardware with plenty of redundancy, that could easily be swapped in and out. All the other companies at the time were spending a fortune on hardware and they had big issues with outages and upgrading.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,139
    Sandpit said:

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Toby Young ‏@toadmeister Nov 30
    Just stuck £25 on Lady C to win #ImACeleb at 25/1

    Toby Young @toadmeister Nov 29

    Just placed a bet on UKIP to win in Oldham West. 11/4. Wish I had got on earlier!!

    Good betting week for Toby!!

    Ha. What are his tips for GOP and POTUS? It's high time we all started focusing on the next big betting event.
    SPOTY
    Andy McMurray bigger shoe in than Labour in Oldham West
    The value is in Tyson Fury.
    He seems to be the latest target of the SJW illiberal liberals, for having an incorrect opinion.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/sports-personality-of-the-year/12032967/BBC-urged-to-drop-Tyson-Fury-from-SPOTY-shortlist-over-homophobic-and-misogynist-comments.html
    BBC urged to drop Tyson Fury from SPOTY shortlist over homophobic and misogynist comments
    Boxer said fellow Sports Personality contender Jessica Ennis-Hill "looks quite fit when she's got a dress on" and believes homosexuality should be criminalised
    Well, it's at least a personality of some kind, which a few past winners were missing.
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Hello all,

    A beautiful day here in London. Perfect weather this weekend for me to finish planting my spring bulbs: allium and tulips and iris.

    A touch of hyperbole I think over Oldham: Labour holds onto safe seat with reduced majority 7 months after a general election doesn't strike me as sensational.

    Anyway, the reason for my good humour this morning is that I have finally got the all clear re the cancer scare - after a lot of tests etc and monitoring for quite some time, no immediate need to go off to radiotherapy and the rest of it. Various other things wrong that I need to deal with but these are not, fortunately, terminal.

    So I am like Tigger on speed today, bouncing around with happiness!!

    A big thank you to all PBers for your kind wishes.

    I'm very pleased to hear it.
    Seconded by all else here, I should think. Long may you continuare a rimbalzare.
  • Options

    I'm off to a wedding near Brighton of someone who has played a huge part in the development of PB. I think he'd like to remain anonymous soI won't reveal his posting identity.

    Lovely December day here in Sussex

    Is Mark Senior marrying Plato?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    slade said:

    Never mind Oldham West - here's the result we have all been waiting for. Bognor Regis Town Council ( Marine Ward): LD 265, Lab 216, Con 107, Green 25 - Lib Dem HOLD


    Bugger Bognor.....
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Toby Young ‏@toadmeister Nov 30
    Just stuck £25 on Lady C to win #ImACeleb at 25/1

    Toby Young @toadmeister Nov 29

    Just placed a bet on UKIP to win in Oldham West. 11/4. Wish I had got on earlier!!

    Good betting week for Toby!!

    Ha. What are his tips for GOP and POTUS? It's high time we all started focusing on the next big betting event.
    SPOTY
    Andy McMurray bigger shoe in than Labour in Oldham West
    The value is in Tyson Fury.
    He seems to be the latest target of the SJW illiberal liberals, for having an incorrect opinion.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/sports-personality-of-the-year/12032967/BBC-urged-to-drop-Tyson-Fury-from-SPOTY-shortlist-over-homophobic-and-misogynist-comments.html
    BBC urged to drop Tyson Fury from SPOTY shortlist over homophobic and misogynist comments
    Boxer said fellow Sports Personality contender Jessica Ennis-Hill "looks quite fit when she's got a dress on" and believes homosexuality should be criminalised
    Well, it's at least a personality of some kind, which a few past winners were missing.
    As part of a minority group, what about his cultural sensitivities?
  • Options
    "Oldham Council has not received any formal complaints about allegations of postal voting irregularities in the Oldham West and Royton by election."
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-35000700
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,556

    There was a period (in the early 2000s, iirc) when they gave by far the best results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank

    It's not just PageRank. It's one thing to build a better search engine than the competition, you also need to do so economically, to achieve high performance and reliability, at lower cost.

    Google's real expertise is on the systems side. They have the best infrastructure going. When they occasionally talk about what they have done we often find that Google was doing the "new hot thing" years ago at a scale that exceeds anything anyone else has done. They have done that with custom servers, custom network switches, software defined networks, containerisation, distributed file systems, distributed processing, and on and on. Usually there's a caveat that the stuff they are now talking or writing about is the old system, not the one now in production.
  • Options
    More than 100 Metropolitan Police officers have been sacked since the beginning of last year, including at least 22 over allegations of corruption.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/met-sacks-103-rogue-police-officers-in-two-years-a3129811.html
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    edited December 2015

    I'm off to a wedding near Brighton of someone who has played a huge part in the development of PB. I think he'd like to remain anonymous soI won't reveal his posting identity.

    Lovely December day here in Sussex

    All the very best for your nuptials - you know who you are (even if we don't!)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,053
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Toby Young ‏@toadmeister Nov 30
    Just stuck £25 on Lady C to win #ImACeleb at 25/1

    Toby Young @toadmeister Nov 29

    Just placed a bet on UKIP to win in Oldham West. 11/4. Wish I had got on earlier!!

    Good betting week for Toby!!

    Ha. What are his tips for GOP and POTUS? It's high time we all started focusing on the next big betting event.
    SPOTY
    Andy McMurray bigger shoe in than Labour in Oldham West
    The value is in Tyson Fury.
    He seems to be the latest target of the SJW illiberal liberals, for having an incorrect opinion.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/sports-personality-of-the-year/12032967/BBC-urged-to-drop-Tyson-Fury-from-SPOTY-shortlist-over-homophobic-and-misogynist-comments.html
    BBC urged to drop Tyson Fury from SPOTY shortlist over homophobic and misogynist comments
    Boxer said fellow Sports Personality contender Jessica Ennis-Hill "looks quite fit when she's got a dress on" and believes homosexuality should be criminalised
    Well, it's at least a personality of some kind, which a few past winners were missing.
    The SPOTY shortlist has a ghastly amount of political correctness already. Who has had more "impact", Jamie Vardy or Jessica Bronze ?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,411
    edited December 2015
    glw said:

    There was a period (in the early 2000s, iirc) when they gave by far the best results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank

    It's not just PageRank. It's one thing to build a better search engine than the competition, you also need to do so economically, to achieve high performance and reliability, at lower cost.

    Google's real expertise is on the systems side. They have the best infrastructure going. When they occasionally talk about what they have done we often find that Google was doing the "new hot thing" years ago at a scale that exceeds anything anyone else has done. They have done that with custom servers, custom network switches, software defined networks, containerisation, distributed file systems, distributed processing, and on and on. Usually there's a caveat that the stuff they are now talking or writing about is the old system, not the one now in production.
    Their custom MapReduce technology was genius, and they are already onto something even bigger and better called Cloud DataFlow.

    Google being a search engine company is a bit like describing Amazon as a book seller...
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :lol:

    I'm off to a wedding near Brighton of someone who has played a huge part in the development of PB. I think he'd like to remain anonymous soI won't reveal his posting identity.

    Lovely December day here in Sussex

    Is Mark Senior marrying Plato?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,334

    I'm off to a wedding near Brighton of someone who has played a huge part in the development of PB. I think he'd like to remain anonymous soI won't reveal his posting identity.

    Lovely December day here in Sussex

    Enjoy and congratulations to the poster whoever they are. I am going to a wedding myself next week in Mauritius flying out tomorrow
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,053

    I'm off to a wedding near Brighton of someone who has played a huge part in the development of PB. I think he'd like to remain anonymous soI won't reveal his posting identity.

    Lovely December day here in Sussex

    All the very best for your nuptials - you know who you are (even if we don't!)
    Rather cryptic way to refer to @rcs1000 !
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Happy Days @Cyclefree !
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,334
    Cyclefree said:

    Hello all,

    A beautiful day here in London. Perfect weather this weekend for me to finish planting my spring bulbs: allium and tulips and iris.

    A touch of hyperbole I think over Oldham: Labour holds onto safe seat with reduced majority 7 months after a general election doesn't strike me as sensational.

    Anyway, the reason for my good humour this morning is that I have finally got the all clear re the cancer scare - after a lot of tests etc and monitoring for quite some time, no immediate need to go off to radiotherapy and the rest of it. Various other things wrong that I need to deal with but these are not, fortunately, terminal.

    So I am like Tigger on speed today, bouncing around with happiness!!

    A big thank you to all PBers for your kind wishes.

    Congratulations
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited December 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Toby Young ‏@toadmeister Nov 30
    Just stuck £25 on Lady C to win #ImACeleb at 25/1

    Toby Young @toadmeister Nov 29

    Just placed a bet on UKIP to win in Oldham West. 11/4. Wish I had got on earlier!!

    Good betting week for Toby!!

    Ha. What are his tips for GOP and POTUS? It's high time we all started focusing on the next big betting event.
    SPOTY
    Andy McMurray bigger shoe in than Labour in Oldham West
    The value is in Tyson Fury.
    He seems to be the latest target of the SJW illiberal liberals, for having an incorrect opinion.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/sports-personality-of-the-year/12032967/BBC-urged-to-drop-Tyson-Fury-from-SPOTY-shortlist-over-homophobic-and-misogynist-comments.html
    BBC urged to drop Tyson Fury from SPOTY shortlist over homophobic and misogynist comments
    Boxer said fellow Sports Personality contender Jessica Ennis-Hill "looks quite fit when she's got a dress on" and believes homosexuality should be criminalised
    Well, it's at least a personality of some kind, which a few past winners were missing.
    The SPOTY shortlist has a ghastly amount of political correctness already. Who has had more "impact", Jamie Vardy or Jessica Bronze ?
    Lucy Bronze isn't even a good choice if you must have a womens footballer.

    Kim Little should have been nominated two years ago, possibly last year. Definitely overdue. Jenny Beattie is the best defender the UK has ever produced and competitive for best in the world, Bronze isn't fit to lace her boots.
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    Genuine question, why did Google beat out all the other search engines (in the West anyway)? What about it, or the circumstances, led them to becoming the dominant force?

    There were two factors. When they started, a search engine called Alta Vista was the most used, but it had two big problems.

    The first was that it came up with hundreds of garbage results. For example, if you did a search on a company's name you'd get zillions of hits of CVs of people who'd once worked with the company or used its products. Google's algorithms stripped out the junk and gave you the most relevant results.

    The other really, really smart thing Google did was not have any adverts on the search page. All of their competitors at the time had really cluttered pages full of blinking ads and other garbage, because that was how they got their revenues. To this day, Google's search page remains really clean. Of course Google needed a lot of financial backing to be able to afford to build their systems with very little revenue to start with.
    If I remember correctly another ingenious thing they did was developed their algorithms to run on low cost self-built custom hardware with plenty of redundancy, that could easily be swapped in and out. All the other companies at the time were spending a fortune on hardware and they had big issues with outages and upgrading.
    They did but that was not the clever part, which was they worked out how to split up their data analysis onto thousands of those commodity machines running in parallel (google mapreduce).
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2015
    Re Oldham

    A lot of people got excited because someone, who usually knows the time of day politically, said it was much closer than we all expected it to be

    As it turns out, he got this one wrong. All that has happened is the opposition have comfortably held one of their safer seats, as most people expected they would. I wouldn't think this is a portent for future by elections, unless they are in extremely similar seats

    The stupidity of extrapolating too much from one piece of form is on show I fear
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,334

    Sandpit said:

    Good interview by the Guardian with Jim McMahon from 2012.
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/jun/26/jim-mcmahon-leader-oldham-council
    Easy to see that he had a huge personal vote in the area as someone who was young but cared about the place where his kids were growing up. He also got cross-party support for his reforms of the council.

    Yep - a really strong addition to the Labour parliamentary party. The Corbynistas will clearly grow to hate him, but he has a very strong mandate.

    Corbyn went up to Oldham to congratulate him and it was undoubtedly a boost for the leader after a torrid few weeks so I suspect Corbynistas will forgive him, McMahon even said he opposed airstrikes in Syria
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    Genuine question, why did Google beat out all the other search engines (in the West anyway)? What about it, or the circumstances, led them to becoming the dominant force?

    There were two factors. When they started, a search engine called Alta Vista was the most used, but it had two big problems.

    The first was that it came up with hundreds of garbage results. For example, if you did a search on a company's name you'd get zillions of hits of CVs of people who'd once worked with the company or used its products. Google's algorithms stripped out the junk and gave you the most relevant results.

    The other really, really smart thing Google did was not have any adverts on the search page. All of their competitors at the time had really cluttered pages full of blinking ads and other garbage, because that was how they got their revenues. To this day, Google's search page remains really clean. Of course Google needed a lot of financial backing to be able to afford to build their systems with very little revenue to start with.
    If I remember correctly another ingenious thing they did was developed their algorithms to run on low cost self-built custom hardware with plenty of redundancy, that could easily be swapped in and out. All the other companies at the time were spending a fortune on hardware and they had big issues with outages and upgrading.
    They did but that was not the clever part, which was they worked out how to split up their data analysis onto thousands of those commodity machines running in parallel (google mapreduce).
    See my post below :-)
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,556

    If I remember correctly another ingenious thing they did was developed their algorithms to run on low cost self-built custom hardware with plenty of redundancy, that could easily be swapped in and out. All the other companies at the time were spending a fortune on hardware and they had big issues with outages and upgrading.

    Yes, a web server once meant cutting a very big cheque to a company like Sun for an Enterprise class server, and all sorts of expensive services contracts to keep it running. Now a web server is typically a stripped down x86 box that is barely touched from the day it arrives to the day it is carted away when the replacement turns up.
  • Options

    glw said:

    There was a period (in the early 2000s, iirc) when they gave by far the best results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank

    It's not just PageRank. It's one thing to build a better search engine than the competition, you also need to do so economically, to achieve high performance and reliability, at lower cost.

    Google's real expertise is on the systems side. They have the best infrastructure going. When they occasionally talk about what they have done we often find that Google was doing the "new hot thing" years ago at a scale that exceeds anything anyone else has done. They have done that with custom servers, custom network switches, software defined networks, containerisation, distributed file systems, distributed processing, and on and on. Usually there's a caveat that the stuff they are now talking or writing about is the old system, not the one now in production.
    Their custom MapReduce technology was genius, and they are already onto something even bigger and better called Cloud DataFlow.

    Google being a search engine company is a bit like describing Amazon as a book seller...
    .... and Amazon Web Services (AWS) powers a lot of major websites and makes a lot of money for Amazon.
    http://www.zdnet.com/article/aws-q3-revenue-up-78-percent-to-2-08-billion/
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Cyclefree said:

    Hello all,

    A beautiful day here in London. Perfect weather this weekend for me to finish planting my spring bulbs: allium and tulips and iris.

    A touch of hyperbole I think over Oldham: Labour holds onto safe seat with reduced majority 7 months after a general election doesn't strike me as sensational.

    Anyway, the reason for my good humour this morning is that I have finally got the all clear re the cancer scare - after a lot of tests etc and monitoring for quite some time, no immediate need to go off to radiotherapy and the rest of it. Various other things wrong that I need to deal with but these are not, fortunately, terminal.

    So I am like Tigger on speed today, bouncing around with happiness!!

    A big thank you to all PBers for your kind wishes.

    Super news. Go and celebrate being freed of the yoke of worry!
    Excellent news Cyclefree, enjoy the Tigger experience and celebrate!.

    Just keep those incisive and thought provoking posts coming in!
  • Options
    KingaKinga Posts: 59
    Ms Cyclefree,

    I thought your contributions on Wednesday were spot on and am glad to hear your news.

    Stay well.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Back in the mid-90s, my other-half's offices at Ericsson HQ were burgled - all the memory chips were stolen from their Sun workstations.

    Can you imagine that now?!
    glw said:

    If I remember correctly another ingenious thing they did was developed their algorithms to run on low cost self-built custom hardware with plenty of redundancy, that could easily be swapped in and out. All the other companies at the time were spending a fortune on hardware and they had big issues with outages and upgrading.

    Yes, a web server once meant cutting a very big cheque to a company like Sun for an Enterprise class server, and all sorts of expensive services contracts to keep it running. Now a web server is typically a stripped down x86 box that is barely touched from the day it arrives to the day it is carted away when the replacement turns up.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,171
    edited December 2015

    Here's a good (though long) article on why twitter will probably fail eventually:

    https://www.baekdal.com/opinion/not-even-twitter-understands-twitter/

    Summary: twitter doesn't understand its own product at all.

    That was a good read, thanks. These 'social media' companies are all individual passing fads, very few have made any money because as soon as they try and make money by annoying the users, they all move on to the next and newest app. Even Facebook are not adding users in major markets any more, most of the kids have moved to Snapchat and iMessage. Twitter has 300 million users yet lost $500 million last year!

    On Google, as others have said they were simply better at understanding search than anyone else at the time, had some serious brains working on the algorithms and data centre side, while deliberately decluttering the search page. Their search results page still says how long the search took, right at the top.
  • Options
    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited December 2015

    :lol:

    I'm off to a wedding near Brighton of someone who has played a huge part in the development of PB. I think he'd like to remain anonymous soI won't reveal his posting identity.

    Lovely December day here in Sussex

    Is Mark Senior marrying Plato?
    I guess that's a No?
    PS shethatshallbeobeyed pointed out that on ITV3 "Loose Women" just now was some "famous" dog called Tuna or similar. real pug ugly dog.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,411
    edited December 2015

    glw said:

    There was a period (in the early 2000s, iirc) when they gave by far the best results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank

    It's not just PageRank. It's one thing to build a better search engine than the competition, you also need to do so economically, to achieve high performance and reliability, at lower cost.

    Google's real expertise is on the systems side. They have the best infrastructure going. When they occasionally talk about what they have done we often find that Google was doing the "new hot thing" years ago at a scale that exceeds anything anyone else has done. They have done that with custom servers, custom network switches, software defined networks, containerisation, distributed file systems, distributed processing, and on and on. Usually there's a caveat that the stuff they are now talking or writing about is the old system, not the one now in production.
    Their custom MapReduce technology was genius, and they are already onto something even bigger and better called Cloud DataFlow.

    Google being a search engine company is a bit like describing Amazon as a book seller...
    .... and Amazon Web Services (AWS) powers a lot of major websites and makes a lot of money for Amazon.
    http://www.zdnet.com/article/aws-q3-revenue-up-78-percent-to-2-08-billion/
    Amazon is as much a technology company as Google. Despite all the screams of tax avoidance, selling s##t online doesn't make them any real money and interestingly they are now really pushing the "fulfilled by Amazon" and placing a lot of investment into the technology of logistics side of things i.e deliver in 30 mins.

    I can foresee Amazon just becoming the "enabler" / technology partner, and let others deal with the buying / selling / manufacture from China.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,267
    And I wanted to say how impressive the care from the doctors has been - both at the GP and at hospital - as well as the administrative staff. Really no complaints at all. I know it's only anecdotal and others have different experiences but credit where it's due.

    Mind you, whenever I'm asked my profession I tell them "Litigation Lawyer" so that might have something to do with it!

    I had to see the neurologist at one point; he said that I had to reduce stress and overwork. Then he asked me what I did. I told him. And we both had a good long laugh!! :)

    And now back to work - while listening to the music from Suite Francaise - am trying to learn the piano part.

    :D
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,411
    edited December 2015
    Sandpit said:

    Here's a good (though long) article on why twitter will probably fail eventually:

    https://www.baekdal.com/opinion/not-even-twitter-understands-twitter/

    Summary: twitter doesn't understand its own product at all.

    That was a good read, thanks. These 'social media' companies are all individual passing fads, very few have made any money because as soon as they try and make money by annoying the users, they all move on to the next and newest app. Even Facebook are not adding users in major markets any more, most of the kids have moved to Snapchat and iMessage. Twitter has 300 million users yet lost $500 million last year!

    On Google, as others have said they were simply better at understanding search than anyone else at the time, had some serious brains working on the algorithms and data centre side, while deliberately decluttering the search page. Their search results page still says how long the search took, right at the top.
    This is where WhatApp was so genius. Only 20 or so employees to start with, no marketing, very simple website, basically very low cost startup. Their business model was always 99c app, and they were profitable basically from very early on.

    If it didn't work, they were never going to burn mega bucks nor work on the hope they one day it might become big and/or somehow work out how to make it pay 5 years down the line i.e twitter.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,171
    edited December 2015

    glw said:

    There was a period (in the early 2000s, iirc) when they gave by far the best results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank

    It's not just PageRank. It's one thing to build a better search engine than the competition, you also need to do so economically, to achieve high performance and reliability, at lower cost.

    Google's real expertise is on the systems side. They have the best infrastructure going. When they occasionally talk about what they have done we often find that Google was doing the "new hot thing" years ago at a scale that exceeds anything anyone else has done. They have done that with custom servers, custom network switches, software defined networks, containerisation, distributed file systems, distributed processing, and on and on. Usually there's a caveat that the stuff they are now talking or writing about is the old system, not the one now in production.
    Their custom MapReduce technology was genius, and they are already onto something even bigger and better called Cloud DataFlow.

    Google being a search engine company is a bit like describing Amazon as a book seller...
    .... and Amazon Web Services (AWS) powers a lot of major websites and makes a lot of money for Amazon.
    http://www.zdnet.com/article/aws-q3-revenue-up-78-percent-to-2-08-billion/
    Yes, AWS is quite amazing compared to where the world of web hosting was only a few years ago - especially in scalability. Remember when news websites used to crash or slow to a crawl when a major event happened? That that doesn't happen any more is down to AWS and MS Azure offering web servers by the hour in almost every major city in the world.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,324
    kle4 said:

    Pong said:

    NYT on the case of Zuckerberg tax planning, I mean giving his fortune away to himself. They dissect his latest spin about how it isn't tax efficient to do so and the claim that they will pay capital gains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html

    It is a bit of a problem, having $40bn.

    What do you actually spend it on?
    $40bn ON PAPER....

    Although I am a lot more confident in Facebook for the short / mid term, than Twitter and alike.
    Facebook should be fine as long as they keep innovating. As you say, Twitter's probably a different matter.

    edit: I still remember when I first head of Google. Another engineer told me of a brilliant search engine that might just render fast in our browser ... :)
    Genuine question, why did Google beat out all the other search engines (in the West anyway)? What about it, or the circumstances, led them to becoming the dominant force?
    There have already been some excellent answers, but here are mine about why it became dominant. Note: these apply to the very early days.

    1) Speed (1). They produced results fast.
    2) Accuracy. The results were at least as good as other web engines.
    3) Speed (2). Most search engines came with pages full of adverts, images and the horrid 'portal' concept. These took an age to download on modems, and were often buggy, crashing browsers.

    I think the third was most important. When designing any computer interface, it is a question of working out what the user wants to do, and letting them do it without you interfering too much. If a user wants to search for something, they don't generally don't want to be blitzed by a page containing loads of pictures that delay the process as they take minutes to download. They want a search box.

    And that is all they want.

    Google's real initial skill was in promising investors they could monetise a nearly-blank webpage. No-one else thought that was possible.

    Think different.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,053


    I can foresee Amazon just becoming the "enabler" / technology partner, and let others deal with the buying / selling / manufacture from China.

    "Ali-baba reseller" has less of a ring to it.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,411
    edited December 2015
    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    There was a period (in the early 2000s, iirc) when they gave by far the best results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank

    It's not just PageRank. It's one thing to build a better search engine than the competition, you also need to do so economically, to achieve high performance and reliability, at lower cost.

    Google's real expertise is on the systems side. They have the best infrastructure going. When they occasionally talk about what they have done we often find that Google was doing the "new hot thing" years ago at a scale that exceeds anything anyone else has done. They have done that with custom servers, custom network switches, software defined networks, containerisation, distributed file systems, distributed processing, and on and on. Usually there's a caveat that the stuff they are now talking or writing about is the old system, not the one now in production.
    Their custom MapReduce technology was genius, and they are already onto something even bigger and better called Cloud DataFlow.

    Google being a search engine company is a bit like describing Amazon as a book seller...
    .... and Amazon Web Services (AWS) powers a lot of major websites and makes a lot of money for Amazon.
    http://www.zdnet.com/article/aws-q3-revenue-up-78-percent-to-2-08-billion/
    Yes, AWS is quite amazing compared to where the world of web hosting was only a few years ago - especially in scalability. Remember when news websites used to crash or slow to a crawl when a major event happened? That that doesn't happen any more is down to AWS and MS Azure offering web servers by the hour in almost every major city in the world.
    Netflix wouldn't be the service it is today without AWS. Can you imagine trying to handle that much data....I believe recently Netflix shut down their last datacenter that they ran themselves, instead letting AWS do all the work for them.
  • Options
    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited December 2015
    Sandpit said:

    On Google, as others have said they were simply better at understanding search than anyone else at the time, had some serious brains working on the algorithms and data centre side, while deliberately decluttering the search page. Their search results page still says how long the search took, right at the top.

    From a user experience point of view, along with the better quality of the links found (generally; this actually improved quite noticeably over the first few years I used it, from "somewhat better" to its competitors to "massively better") and the clean interface, it was the speed that startled me when I first used google.

    My memory from the 90s is that Alta Vista, Yahoo, Ask Jeeves and Lycos all took ages, and felt it. Does anyone remember how long it actually was? Somewhere between 20 seconds and a minute for a typical search is my gut feeling, but my memory might be exaggerating.

    These days the time taken to search is virtually irrelevant.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,171
    edited December 2015

    Sandpit said:

    Here's a good (though long) article on why twitter will probably fail eventually:

    https://www.baekdal.com/opinion/not-even-twitter-understands-twitter/

    Summary: twitter doesn't understand its own product at all.

    That was a good read, thanks. These 'social media' companies are all individual passing fads, very few have made any money because as soon as they try and make money by annoying the users, they all move on to the next and newest app. Even Facebook are not adding users in major markets any more, most of the kids have moved to Snapchat and iMessage. Twitter has 300 million users yet lost $500 million last year!

    On Google, as others have said they were simply better at understanding search than anyone else at the time, had some serious brains working on the algorithms and data centre side, while deliberately decluttering the search page. Their search results page still says how long the search took, right at the top.
    This is where WhatApp was so genius. Only 20 or so employees to start with, no marketing, very simple website, basically very low cost startup. Their business model was always 99c app, and they were profitable basically from very early on.

    If it didn't work, they were never going to burn mega bucks nor work on the hope they one day it might become big and/or somehow work out how to make it pay 5 years down the line i.e twitter.
    Yes, and they succeeded in that they got bought out by Facebook for a pile of money.

    Whatsapp is just a wrapper around the open XMPP protocol, so their problem is that you or I (or Jihadi Ahmed, to make the point - this is a politics blog!) could do the same thing tomorrow with half a dozen coders. The value is in the user numbers and once they try to exploit with tracking or advertising (or government backdoors) then the users will happily move to the next chat app.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    One of the all-time great pb.com put-downs:

    blackburn63 said:

    "...Humility costs nothing."

    Plato replied:

    "Yet out of your price range, apparently."
  • Options
    These days is there anybody in the West really doing search other than Google and Microsoft? AFAIK all the others out there are just metasearch / have deals to use either Google or Bing.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,324

    Sandpit said:

    On Google, as others have said they were simply better at understanding search than anyone else at the time, had some serious brains working on the algorithms and data centre side, while deliberately decluttering the search page. Their search results page still says how long the search took, right at the top.

    From a user experience point of view, along with the better quality of the links found (generally; this actually improved quite noticeably over the first few years I used it, from "somewhat better" to its competitors to "massively better") and the clean interface, it was the speed that startled me when I first used google.

    My memory from the 90s is that Alta Vista, Yahoo, Ask Jeeves and Lycos all took ages, and felt it. Does anyone remember how long it actually was? Somewhere between 20 seconds and a minute for a typical search is my gut feeling, but my memory might be exaggerating.

    These days the time taken to search is virtually irrelevant.
    You're not misremembering. The company I was working for at the time was helping develop a web browser. We did loads of research into timings and other metrics. Some pages were awful, but I can't remember which was the worst sinner.

    Another example were pages requiring megabytes of memory to store them, when the average computer might have had 32 or 64 MB of RAM. CSS helped there a little.

    BTW, Google are still really keen on efficiency and speed. It matters to them.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,411
    edited December 2015
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Here's a good (though long) article on why twitter will probably fail eventually:

    https://www.baekdal.com/opinion/not-even-twitter-understands-twitter/

    Summary: twitter doesn't understand its own product at all.

    That was a good read, thanks. These 'social media' companies are all individual passing fads, very few have made any money because as soon as they try and make money by annoying the users, they all move on to the next and newest app. Even Facebook are not adding users in major markets any more, most of the kids have moved to Snapchat and iMessage. Twitter has 300 million users yet lost $500 million last year!

    On Google, as others have said they were simply better at understanding search than anyone else at the time, had some serious brains working on the algorithms and data centre side, while deliberately decluttering the search page. Their search results page still says how long the search took, right at the top.
    This is where WhatApp was so genius. Only 20 or so employees to start with, no marketing, very simple website, basically very low cost startup. Their business model was always 99c app, and they were profitable basically from very early on.

    If it didn't work, they were never going to burn mega bucks nor work on the hope they one day it might become big and/or somehow work out how to make it pay 5 years down the line i.e twitter.
    Yes, and they succeeded in that they got bought out by Facebook for a pile of money.

    Whatsapp is just a wrapper around the open XMPP protocol, so their problem is that you or I (or Jihadi Ahmed, to make the point - this is a politics blog!) could do the same thing tomorrow with half a dozen coders. The value is in the user numbers and once they try to exploit with tracking or advertising (or government backdoors) then the users will happily move to the next chat app.
    Well we now know Jihadi Ahmed is now using Telegram. If I remember correctly the innovation that WhatApp had, which wasn't offered at the time and got a lot of people on board, was the simple integration. It went through your phone book and connected everybody and then if you added anybody either via phone number or WhatApp contact it linked everything up auto-magically.

    Until then you had this tedious multiple contact lists for skype, then another for MSN Messenger, than another for AIM, etc etc etc.

    I am surprised Facebook hasn't integrated WhatApp into Facebook, you still have their crap chat / messenger technology, which on IoS requires you to switch to another bloody app.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,607
    @Cyclefree

    1) if you are reading this, absolutely delighted at your news.
    2) if you are reading this, what on earth are you reading this for? Get back out in the garden!

    :smile:
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    glwglw Posts: 9,556

    Netflix wouldn't be the service it is today without AWS. Can you imagine trying to handle that much data....I believe recently Netflix shut down their last datacenter that they ran themselves, instead letting AWS do all the work for them.

    And Netflix is huge, IIRC at peak times they account for 40% of all US internet traffic, whereas web surfing in total is something like 10%. It is mind boggling that Netflix can buy all technological capability "as a service".

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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    :lol:

    I'm off to a wedding near Brighton of someone who has played a huge part in the development of PB. I think he'd like to remain anonymous soI won't reveal his posting identity.

    Lovely December day here in Sussex

    Is Mark Senior marrying Plato?
    Mr. Llama ?
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    I'm off to a wedding near Brighton of someone who has played a huge part in the development of PB. I think he'd like to remain anonymous soI won't reveal his posting identity.

    Lovely December day here in Sussex

    All the very best for your nuptials - you know who you are (even if we don't!)
    Where does Mr 1000 live ?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,411
    edited December 2015
    glw said:

    Netflix wouldn't be the service it is today without AWS. Can you imagine trying to handle that much data....I believe recently Netflix shut down their last datacenter that they ran themselves, instead letting AWS do all the work for them.

    And Netflix is huge, IIRC at peak times they account for 40% of all US internet traffic, whereas web surfing in total is something like 10%. It is mind boggling that Netflix can buy all technological capability "as a service".

    Wonder how much that is worth to Amazon's bottom line? A lot more than reselling s##t from China at razor thin margins I would think.
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    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good interview by the Guardian with Jim McMahon from 2012.
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/jun/26/jim-mcmahon-leader-oldham-council
    Easy to see that he had a huge personal vote in the area as someone who was young but cared about the place where his kids were growing up. He also got cross-party support for his reforms of the council.

    Yep - a really strong addition to the Labour parliamentary party. The Corbynistas will clearly grow to hate him, but he has a very strong mandate.

    Corbyn went up to Oldham to congratulate him and it was undoubtedly a boost for the leader after a torrid few weeks so I suspect Corbynistas will forgive him, McMahon even said he opposed airstrikes in Syria
    As I said last night, having seen a rather silly photo, I am quite pleased to see UKIPs expectations stuffed.
    Once again we see people actively voting against or restraining themselves to vote for UKIP. Given the low turn out there were clearly Labour abstentions but they chose to ignore UKIP as an alternative.
    UKIP has lost its way, cosily talking to itself; it has turned from an anti EU campaigning organisation (as set up by Wheeler) into a blatantly anti immigrant anti colour party and intolerant of all sorts of other things as well.
    Funny really to think that it has been taken over by entryists.
    Comfortingly this was nothing like a tory target seat (as witness the GE result) and Farage making it a referendum on Corbyn has done the tories a favour. One day Farage will take a note of all the referendums on him.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Whoever would have thought when UKIP got 3% in OW&R 5 years ago that not winning a by election there in 2015 would have meant it was all up for them?
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    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Toby Young ‏@toadmeister Nov 30
    Just stuck £25 on Lady C to win #ImACeleb at 25/1

    Toby Young @toadmeister Nov 29

    Just placed a bet on UKIP to win in Oldham West. 11/4. Wish I had got on earlier!!

    Good betting week for Toby!!

    Ha. What are his tips for GOP and POTUS? It's high time we all started focusing on the next big betting event.
    SPOTY
    Andy McMurray bigger shoe in than Labour in Oldham West
    The value is in Tyson Fury.
    He seems to be the latest target of the SJW illiberal liberals, for having an incorrect opinion.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/sports-personality-of-the-year/12032967/BBC-urged-to-drop-Tyson-Fury-from-SPOTY-shortlist-over-homophobic-and-misogynist-comments.html
    BBC urged to drop Tyson Fury from SPOTY shortlist over homophobic and misogynist comments
    Boxer said fellow Sports Personality contender Jessica Ennis-Hill "looks quite fit when she's got a dress on" and believes homosexuality should be criminalised
    Well, it's at least a personality of some kind, which a few past winners were missing.
    Yes, but he is a boxer for goodness sake!
    Glad to see there is some constancy in this ever changing world.
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    kle4 said:

    Pong said:

    NYT on the case of Zuckerberg tax planning, I mean giving his fortune away to himself. They dissect his latest spin about how it isn't tax efficient to do so and the claim that they will pay capital gains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/business/dealbook/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself.html

    It is a bit of a problem, having $40bn.

    What do you actually spend it on?
    $40bn ON PAPER....

    Although I am a lot more confident in Facebook for the short / mid term, than Twitter and alike.
    Facebook should be fine as long as they keep innovating. As you say, Twitter's probably a different matter.

    edit: I still remember when I first head of Google. Another engineer told me of a brilliant search engine that might just render fast in our browser ... :)
    Genuine question, why did Google beat out all the other search engines (in the West anyway)? What about it, or the circumstances, led them to becoming the dominant force?
    Are there better search engines now? Have others caught up?
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    isam said:

    Whoever would have thought when UKIP got 3% in OW&R 5 years ago that not winning a by election there in 2015 would have meant it was all up for them?

    Yes but their BNP mates also got over 7% in 2010
This discussion has been closed.