Is McDonnell actually trying to attack Osborne for not reaching his deficit targets?
As I advised Mr Corbyn, rather than oppose Osborne's deficit law, Labour should have amended it to disqualify from office any Chancellor who runs a deficit for, say, (how long has Osborne been in Number 11?) five years.
£8k a year really as anyone on the SP with no other income can claim Pension Credit and the assorted pensioner goodies.
They can, but those haven't been ring-fenced.
But yes, you are right, the average pensioner does get a total of something like £8K per year in accordance with the promises made over half a century by successive governments regarding what National Insurance was supposed to be for. Clearly you think this is too much - 'lavish' in your words.
What do you think a fair state pension would be? Presumably a lot less, given how lavish £8K is. Care to put a figure on it?
My main problem is not so much the size of the pension but that inflation-busting increases have been *legally guaranteed* for the foreseeable future. This is the height of financial irresponsibility given that the SP is by far the biggest welfare benefit.
I would have liked to have seen state pensions frozen for a few years, followed by a 1% up rating for the rest of the parliament. This seems a reasonable contribution for pensioners to make in line with the cuts other sections of society have received.
Going back to our medical discussion, the same cavalier approach to evidence is here.
Prisons that are on expensive housing land will be closed and sold off. No-one asks about relative success in rehabilitation or whatever it is prisons are supposed to do.
Nine old Victorian city centre prisons will be sold off to provide more housing. The government will spend £1billion on building new prisons that are fit for purpose. Holloway prison, the biggest jail for women in Western Europe, is among those that will be shut. The Chancellor said the women prisoners will be housed in "more humane" conditions.
With the rumoured changes to Contracting and taxation of service companies, I'm wondering if Labour could be in with a chance of beating an Osborne lead Tory party, if they could get their act into gear. Which is highly unlikely.
He's doing his bit to piss off quite a few natural Conservative voters.
''I presume it hasn't escaped Osborne he has to get from a c.85 billion deficit pa to zero in the next five years. Make that four-and-a-half, actually. ''
He will be far adrift by 2019 and having to make huge cuts into an election.
I think this Autumn statement tells us he definitely wants the top job.
Osborne has broken the first rule of truly successful tory leaders. The Thatcher rule.
You never give in to 'experts', think tanks, newspaper columnists, lords, celebrities, assorted hand wringing lefties and other assorted bien pensant garbage.
Never. And you never U-turn.
Thatcher did that all the time. By and large, however, she got her retreats in early and worked out where the defensible line was, before she went too public. In fact, it was when she stopped compromising at all that it all started to go wrong.
I am far more angry about this budget than any Brown budget. Brown was honest about being a tax and spend socialist.
This is a New Labour budget. Osborne is in danger of opening a big flank on his Right.
Presumably he's hoping he can deal with that down the road. Right now, he wants to be as uncontentious as he can be to ensure he makes it to the final two.
Does anybody actually believe this rubbish, especially given growth is predicted to be "normal"-ish levels, nothing out of this world.
The growth forecasts look perfectly realistic if we're to have no recession between now and then.
The next recession is due around 2019 - 2020.. It will last 15-18 months and be relatively mild. Remember banks now have much bigger equity bases to absorb losses.. Remember also 2008 type recessions come every 50-70 years - when the lessons of the prior one have been forgotten (see 1929)
Councils sitting on £1tr of assets that can be sold and 100% of proceeds spent locally.
From next year the basic state pension will rise by £3.35, bringing it to £119.30 per week.
It marks the biggest rise in the state pensions for 15 years. Since the Tories came to power the rises have left pensioners £1,125 per year better off.
Financial insanity. Cutting spending on the young and lavishing it on the elderly.
Tough. But don't worry the elderly will be dead soon and anyway pension age is rising to 68 for both men and women.
With the rumoured changes to Contracting and taxation of service companies, I'm wondering if Labour could be in with a chance of beating an Osborne lead Tory party, if they could get their act into gear. Which is highly unlikely.
He's doing his bit to piss off quite a few natural Conservative voters.
Not much good running a service company if there is nothing to service, think he is on solid ground there.
Councils sitting on £1tr of assets that can be sold and 100% of proceeds spent locally.
From next year the basic state pension will rise by £3.35, bringing it to £119.30 per week.
It marks the biggest rise in the state pensions for 15 years. Since the Tories came to power the rises have left pensioners £1,125 per year better off.
Financial insanity. Cutting spending on the young and lavishing it on the elderly.
Tough. But don't worry the elderly will be dead soon and anyway pension age is rising to 68 for both men and women.
they don't all die off, they get replaced by a larger cohort each year.
very disappointing statement from Osbo....using (apparently) improving situation to pull headline grabbing goodies from his hat rather than sensible consolidation...
..but by God this labour chap McDonnell is crap..truly shocking
The idea is like Brown, or not fiscally responsible, or hasn't done enough to cut the deficit, is bonkers, frankly.
Sadly a lot of right wingers (many of them with one foot in the Kipper camp) seem to fall for that. Osborne is being a lot more sensible than those either side of him politically will concede. And there's nothing wrong with occupying the centre ground that Labour is racing away from, it should certainly improve the chances of the Conservatives winning another general election.
Councils sitting on £1tr of assets that can be sold and 100% of proceeds spent locally.
From next year the basic state pension will rise by £3.35, bringing it to £119.30 per week.
It marks the biggest rise in the state pensions for 15 years. Since the Tories came to power the rises have left pensioners £1,125 per year better off.
Financial insanity. Cutting spending on the young and lavishing it on the elderly.
You think £6K per year is lavish? Really?
£8k a year really as anyone on the SP with no other income can claim Pension Credit and the assorted pensioner goodies.
Plenty of people on here have been attacking "scrounges" on half that level of tax credits in the last few months, so it is certainly seen as lavish for them. But somehow the elderly are uniquely virtuous when it comes to receiving welfare.
Compare how much those pensioners have paid into the system relative to their benefits, and then do the same for your 'scroungers'.
To pay £8k a year in tax and NI requires a salary of approx £35k. Since the median UK salary is about £26k, the majority (perhaps two thirds) of people are not paying for their state pension.
20% leads coming up? The Tories must have judged that Corbyn is dug in well enough now.
Corbyn is successfully moving the Conservatives to the Left.
Corbyn is certainly expanding the space available to the Conservatives. Osborne is choosing to move into it, but that makes room for other Tories on the right, as we will surely see. An internal election to be Prime Minister for 6+ years will certainly attract all wings of the party.
It would have been better if Osborne had made the tax credit changes more gradual in the first place, rather than march all the way up the hill and then down again.
The government has taken a series of steps to reduce the cost of politics, including cutting and freezing ministerial pay, abolishing pensions for councillors in England and legislating to reduce the size of the House of Commons. However, since 2010, there has been no contribution by political parties to tackling the deficit. Indeed, taxpayer-funded Short Money has risen year-on-year from £6.9 million in 2010-11 to £9.3 million in 2015-16.
Therefore, subject to confirmation by Parliament, the government proposes to reduce Short Money allocations by 19%, in line with the average savings made from unprotected Whitehall departments over this Spending Review.
The idea is like Brown, or not fiscally responsible, or hasn't done enough to cut the deficit, is bonkers, frankly.
Sadly a lot of right wingers (many of them with one foot in the Kipper camp) seem to fall for that. Osborne is being a lot more sensible than those either side of him politically will concede. And there's nothing wrong with occupying the centre ground that Labour is racing away from, it should certainly improve the chances of the Conservatives winning another general election.
20% leads coming up? The Tories must have judged that Corbyn is dug in well enough now.
Corbyn is successfully moving the Conservatives to the Left.
It's not twaddle. This budget is one that shows a shift in Conservative thinking to the left from that of 12 months ago badged under 'one nation'.
Funnily enough, I see the objective of the Conservative Party as to advance the cause of Conservatism in this country. Not as a game of chess that aims to maximise the vote count for the blue team.
I appreciate others, including Osborne, may think differently.
I think this Autumn statement tells us he definitely wants the top job.
Osborne has broken the first rule of truly successful tory leaders. The Thatcher rule.
You never give in to 'experts', think tanks, newspaper columnists, lords, celebrities, assorted hand wringing lefties and other assorted bien pensant garbage.
Never. And you never U-turn.
Thatcher did that all the time. By and large, however, she got her retreats in early and worked out where the defensible line was, before she went too public. In fact, it was when she stopped compromising at all that it all started to go wrong.
Indeed. Thatcher has become a shibboleth and an icon: "Thatcher" rather than Thatcher, so to speak. By reducing a flesh-and-blood politician with a fine awareness of her base to a right-wing stereotype on which any concept can be hung, we ignore the fact that she was willing to throw principle out the window if her base required it. It was only when she started believing her own publicity - when Thatcher started to act like "Thatcher" - over things like the poll tax that the wheels came off.
Applying your principles against your enemies, and ignoring them wholesale for your friends, its a skill that any successful politician has to learn.
From next year the basic state pension will rise by £3.35, bringing it to £119.30 per week.
It marks the biggest rise in the state pensions for 15 years. Since the Tories came to power the rises have left pensioners £1,125 per year better off.
All thanks to the Lib Dems, eh Plato! Don´t forget that!
I can't see anything about the rumoured changes in taxation of contractors operating through service companies - have I missed them, or have they been shelved for now at least?
The government has taken a series of steps to reduce the cost of politics, including cutting and freezing ministerial pay, abolishing pensions for councillors in England and legislating to reduce the size of the House of Commons. However, since 2010, there has been no contribution by political parties to tackling the deficit. Indeed, taxpayer-funded Short Money has risen year-on-year from £6.9 million in 2010-11 to £9.3 million in 2015-16.
Therefore, subject to confirmation by Parliament, the government proposes to reduce Short Money allocations by 19%, in line with the average savings made from unprotected Whitehall departments over this Spending Review.
20% leads coming up? The Tories must have judged that Corbyn is dug in well enough now.
Corbyn is successfully moving the Conservatives to the Left.
Corbyn has vacated the centre-left. Osborne saying "I'll have some of that then..."
Which is precisely my problem.
It worked in May. Rather than chase the Kipper vote, the Tories went for centre ground votes of Lab and Lib Dem.
I don't think that's what happened in May. The manifesto was partly designed to shore up the Conservative right-flank and a lot of Kippers did end up voting tactically - or actually - for the Conservatives.
I can't see anything about the rumoured changes in taxation of contractors operating through service companies - have I missed them, or have they been shelved for now at least?
too early to say. Wait for tomorrow and the analysis.
Funnily enough, I see the objective of the Conservative Party as to advance the cause of Conservatism in this country. Not as a game of chess that aims to maximise the vote count for the blue team.
You are more likely to advance Conservatism in office than in opposition. If you want right wing dogma there's a party for that now, they have one MP.
20% leads coming up? The Tories must have judged that Corbyn is dug in well enough now.
Corbyn is successfully moving the Conservatives to the Left.
Corbyn has vacated the centre-left. Osborne saying "I'll have some of that then..."
Which is precisely my problem.
It worked in May. Rather than chase the Kipper vote, the Tories went for centre ground votes of Lab and Lib Dem.
I don't think that's what happened in May. The manifesto was partly designed to shore up the Conservative right-flank and a lot of Kippers did end up voting tactically - or actually - for the Conservatives.
How much did the Tory campaign talk about the Kipper hot button immigration?
From next year the basic state pension will rise by £3.35, bringing it to £119.30 per week.
It marks the biggest rise in the state pensions for 15 years. Since the Tories came to power the rises have left pensioners £1,125 per year better off.
All thanks to the Lib Dems, eh Plato! Don´t forget that!
Yes, their 8 MPs are having a massive influence on what Osborne has said today....
20% leads coming up? The Tories must have judged that Corbyn is dug in well enough now.
Corbyn is successfully moving the Conservatives to the Left.
Corbyn has vacated the centre-left. Osborne saying "I'll have some of that then..."
And you think this is a success for you as a Conservative supporter?
I don't think MM is one of them (at all, in fact) but there are plenty of Conservative supporters who are partisan football-team supporters who see politics as a positioning game and just want their 'team' in office.
I haven't heard any - but there was a blizzard of stuff - best to read his speech here.
Ooh oh - Ozzie is responding to McIRA "He's quoting from Mao's Little Red Book. Oh look! He's quoting from his own personal signed copy! Shame half the Shad Cab have been sent off to re-education camps"
I can't see anything about the rumoured changes in taxation of contractors operating through service companies - have I missed them, or have they been shelved for now at least?
With the rumoured changes to Contracting and taxation of service companies, I'm wondering if Labour could be in with a chance of beating an Osborne lead Tory party, if they could get their act into gear. Which is highly unlikely.
He's doing his bit to piss off quite a few natural Conservative voters.
Agreed. The forthcoming contractor rules don't work at all for the genuine contractor in the private sector, the one who does 3 months here and six months there, often away from home.
Osborne has made the speech way too political, he should have eaten the political capital on tax credits (although he got the reduced 2.5k limit in without anyone noticing) and brought in the surplus a year early. He seemed determined that there would be no bad news for anyone in a one hour speech.
I did like the departmental budgets though, almost all having reduced admin budgets while allocating funds for development and capital expenditure. Would have liked to have seen Heathrow expansion mentioned, but I guess that's for another day.
From next year the basic state pension will rise by £3.35, bringing it to £119.30 per week.
It marks the biggest rise in the state pensions for 15 years. Since the Tories came to power the rises have left pensioners £1,125 per year better off.
All thanks to the Lib Dems, eh Plato! Don´t forget that!
Yes, their 8 MPs are having a massive influence on what Osborne has said today....
What about the LDs in the HoL, you know the ones who helped block the tax credits ?
If McDonnell wanted to hit George Osborne, he should stand up and say that he supports most of this budget, its the sort of budget he and his party would be looking to bring in.
As confirmed at Summer Budget 2015, the government will legislate to restrict tax relief for travel and subsistence expenses for workers engaged through an employment intermediary, such as an umbrella company or a personal service company. Following consultation, relief will be restricted for individuals working through personal service companies where the intermediaries legislation applies. This change will take effect from 6 April 2016..
From next year the basic state pension will rise by £3.35, bringing it to £119.30 per week.
It marks the biggest rise in the state pensions for 15 years. Since the Tories came to power the rises have left pensioners £1,125 per year better off.
All thanks to the Lib Dems, eh Plato! Don´t forget that!
Yes, their 8 MPs are having a massive influence on what Osborne has said today....
What about the LDs in the HoL, you know the ones who helped block the tax credits ?
Tax credits was not about the LibDems, it was about the Tories who were telling Cameron to his face - and this was what was related to me by the person who said it - "sort out these tax credit cuts - because I am getting my arse chewed off down in the south west..."
From next year the basic state pension will rise by £3.35, bringing it to £119.30 per week.
It marks the biggest rise in the state pensions for 15 years. Since the Tories came to power the rises have left pensioners £1,125 per year better off.
All thanks to the Lib Dems, eh Plato! Don´t forget that!
Yes, their 8 MPs are having a massive influence on what Osborne has said today....
What about the LDs in the HoL, you know the ones who helped block the tax credits ?
Well it worked and credit to Osborne for taking the hit.
From next year the basic state pension will rise by £3.35, bringing it to £119.30 per week.
It marks the biggest rise in the state pensions for 15 years. Since the Tories came to power the rises have left pensioners £1,125 per year better off.
All thanks to the Lib Dems, eh Plato! Don´t forget that!
Yes, their 8 MPs are having a massive influence on what Osborne has said today....
What about the LDs in the HoL, you know the ones who helped block the tax credits ?
Tax credits was not about the LibDems, it was about the Tories who were telling Cameron to his face - and this was what was related to me by the person who said it - "sort out these tax credit cuts - because I am getting my arse chewed off down in the south west..."
Now you've missed your best chance for the next 5 years, you can't complain the nasty LibDems stopped you doing all the things you wanted to do.
Funnily enough, I see the objective of the Conservative Party as to advance the cause of Conservatism in this country. Not as a game of chess that aims to maximise the vote count for the blue team.
You are more likely to advance Conservatism in office than in opposition. If you want right wing dogma there's a party for that now, they have one MP.
As we've discussed, that isn't happening is it? Why would one support a party, based (one assumes) on certain beliefs as to how the country should best be run, only to have those trampled over and those who continue to espouse them derided and smeared as 'ideological' or worse? Supporting a party based on rosette colour is utterly cretinous.
As confirmed at Summer Budget 2015, the government will legislate to restrict tax relief for travel and subsistence expenses for workers engaged through an employment intermediary, such as an umbrella company or a personal service company. Following consultation, relief will be restricted for individuals working through personal service companies where the intermediaries legislation applies. This change will take effect from 6 April 2016..
Comments
Now its 'too little too late'?
Confused of Islington......
I presume it hasn't escaped Osborne he has to get from a c.85 billion deficit pa to zero in the next five years. Make that four-and-a-half, actually.
I would have liked to have seen state pensions frozen for a few years, followed by a 1% up rating for the rest of the parliament. This seems a reasonable contribution for pensioners to make in line with the cuts other sections of society have received.
The tories may be cheering Osborne now, but later in the parliament they will be cursing him.
I am far more angry about this budget than any Brown budget. Brown was honest about being a tax and spend socialist.
Heir to Brown.
Prisons that are on expensive housing land will be closed and sold off. No-one asks about relative success in rehabilitation or whatever it is prisons are supposed to do.
He's doing his bit to piss off quite a few natural Conservative voters.
He will be far adrift by 2019 and having to make huge cuts into an election.
Presumably he's hoping he can deal with that down the road. Right now, he wants to be as uncontentious as he can be to ensure he makes it to the final two.
Remember also 2008 type recessions come every 50-70 years - when the lessons of the prior one have been forgotten (see 1929)
@RBS_Economics
Thatcher left office with spending/GDP 6.4% lower than when she arrived. Osborne will hit 6% in 2015
The idea is like Brown, or not fiscally responsible, or hasn't done enough to cut the deficit, is bonkers, frankly.
The Sh8t will hit the fan by mid 2018, when the finances are far adrift and labour has got its act together under a new moderate leader.
The tories will have to make swingeing cuts when they should be gearing up to slash taxes.
What a catastrophe by Osborne. What a fail.
Tories camped on the CENTRE ground.
..but by God this labour chap McDonnell is crap..truly shocking
The headline will be him quoting from the Little Red Book.
Osborne delivers a poor budget with a huge u-turn and has been forced to add 4% to the Deficit by the OBR. All McDonnell had to do was nothing.
Comedy writers being put out of business by this Labour Party.
It would have been better if Osborne had made the tax credit changes more gradual in the first place, rather than march all the way up the hill and then down again.
I wonder what lessons Jeremy Hunt is learning.
The government has taken a series of steps to reduce the cost of politics, including cutting and freezing ministerial pay, abolishing pensions for councillors in England and legislating to reduce the size of the House of Commons. However, since 2010, there has been no contribution by political parties to tackling the deficit. Indeed, taxpayer-funded Short Money has risen year-on-year from £6.9 million in 2010-11 to £9.3 million in 2015-16.
Therefore, subject to confirmation by Parliament, the government proposes to reduce Short Money allocations by 19%, in line with the average savings made from unprotected Whitehall departments over this Spending Review.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/479749/52229_Blue_Book_PU1865_Web_Accessible.pdf
p76
Funnily enough, I see the objective of the Conservative Party as to advance the cause of Conservatism in this country. Not as a game of chess that aims to maximise the vote count for the blue team.
I appreciate others, including Osborne, may think differently.
The country can't afford the centre though, Plato, because the centre runs a deficit of 50/100bn. The state is just too big for the economy.
Osborne had a priceless opportunity to show the nation that today. He completely flunked it. All for his own personal career.
Applying your principles against your enemies, and ignoring them wholesale for your friends, its a skill that any successful politician has to learn.
is the cost of politics the biggest cost facing the country ?
Why, or what it does there, are immaterial.
Ooh oh - Ozzie is responding to McIRA "He's quoting from Mao's Little Red Book. Oh look! He's quoting from his own personal signed copy! Shame half the Shad Cab have been sent off to re-education camps"
Osborne has made the speech way too political, he should have eaten the political capital on tax credits (although he got the reduced 2.5k limit in without anyone noticing) and brought in the surplus a year early. He seemed determined that there would be no bad news for anyone in a one hour speech.
I did like the departmental budgets though, almost all having reduced admin budgets while allocating funds for development and capital expenditure. Would have liked to have seen Heathrow expansion mentioned, but I guess that's for another day.
That's me convinced, I withdraw all my earlier criticisms of George.
As confirmed at Summer Budget 2015, the government will legislate to restrict tax relief for travel and subsistence expenses for workers engaged through an employment intermediary, such as an umbrella company or a personal service company. Following consultation, relief will be restricted for individuals working through personal service companies where the intermediaries legislation applies. This change will take effect from 6 April 2016..
No more details, though, as far as I know.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Laughter.jpg
Bad news for nobody now means worse news for the tories down the line. Far worse.
This is an autumn statement for George Osborne.