Twitter really is a pile of crap. Another infuriating thing is you cant zoom in on an image on the phone.
In more uplifting news, assuming nothing major happens in the next few hours, the morning thread will feature a discussion about AV and some history lessons.
Nota bene, this is not the main magnum opus on AV, that will be published before Christmas
Twitter really is a pile of crap. Another infuriating thing is you cant zoom in on an image on the phone.
In more uplifting news, assuming nothing major happens in the next few hours, the morning thread will feature a discussion about AV and some history lessons.
Nota bene, this is not the main magnum opus on AV, that will be published before Christmas
Bloody hell, talk about getting our hopes up. How many more sleeps 'til the big day?
Twitter really is a pile of crap. Another infuriating thing is you cant zoom in on an image on the phone.
In more uplifting news, assuming nothing major happens in the next few hours, the morning thread will feature a discussion about AV and some history lessons.
Nota bene, this is not the main magnum opus on AV, that will be published before Christmas
Bloody hell, talk about getting our hopes up. How many more sleeps 'til the big day?
Harriet Harman's response to Osborne's July Budget and the decision to abstain on the welfare cuts created the momentum for Corbyn. A very serious error of judgement on her part.
It was an attempt to talk sanity rather than absurdity. True the labour party did not listen, but that is why in the end it has to be assessed as unsuitable for government.
A rightwing Tory committed to a neoliberal agenda would tend to see the world that way but coming from a stand -in Labour leader it was appalling.
I think you're missing the point. Harman is no favourite of mine but she caught a glimmer of the truth about why Labour lost in May - as always it was the economy stupid - the public do not trust Labour to sort out the economy and accept the need for austerity [ however little the like the details]. Ever since Corbyn reversed her attempts to make the party see sense and rowed the party further left the writing for Corbyn's Labour has been on the wall. As a tory I'm very pleased that the membership cannot see this.
The twitter posts left out the betting tip at the end;
"It all depends on the turnout, but in my honest opinion, at 3/1 it represents a ridiculous value for money as I'd put them both at evens. UKIP can win here, they are getting a very warm welcome and Corbyn is destroying his core vote.It all depends on the turnout, but in my honest opinion, at 3/1 it represents a ridiculous value for money as I'd put them both at evens. UKIP can win here, they are getting a very warm welcome and Corbyn is destroying his core vote."
There are some errors in this. There are all 9 wards and Crompton is in Oldham East
The twitter posts left out the betting tip at the end;
"It all depends on the turnout, but in my honest opinion, at 3/1 it represents a ridiculous value for money as I'd put them both at evens. UKIP can win here, they are getting a very warm welcome and Corbyn is destroying his core vote.It all depends on the turnout, but in my honest opinion, at 3/1 it represents a ridiculous value for money as I'd put them both at evens. UKIP can win here, they are getting a very warm welcome and Corbyn is destroying his core vote."
There are some errors in this. There are all 9 wards and Crompton is in Oldham East
Twitter really is a pile of crap. Another infuriating thing is you cant zoom in on an image on the phone.
In more uplifting news, assuming nothing major happens in the next few hours, the morning thread will feature a discussion about AV and some history lessons.
Nota bene, this is not the main magnum opus on AV, that will be published before Christmas
Bloody hell, talk about getting our hopes up. How many more sleeps 'til the big day?
Not a thread on Lord sugars and piers Morgan s tweets tonight on the state of labour??? I'm shocked.
Many thanks to Tissue Price and Tom Wilson for the link. The Labour party is in deep trouble on that report. It looks as if the WWC has already formed a judgment about the values of the new leadership.
How could a party's membership get so out of touch with its own voters? That's the big puzzle.
Not so puzzling. Labour treat their voters with contempt. They know better than their voters do. Don't need to ask their views on immigration, EU referendum, national security, nuclear deterrent etc etc.... They will get what they are given.
I watched the week review on sky earlier, Kevin Maguire, a London based Mirror journalist is in total denial about immigration. All the while they are their vote will continue to drop.
I watched the week review on sky earlier, Kevin Maguire, a London based Mirror journalist is in total denial about immigration. All the while they are their vote will continue to drop.
I don't think he's in denial, he just doesn't want to admit he might have got anything wrong.
The twitter posts left out the betting tip at the end;
"It all depends on the turnout, but in my honest opinion, at 3/1 it represents a ridiculous value for money as I'd put them both at evens. UKIP can win here, they are getting a very warm welcome and Corbyn is destroying his core vote.It all depends on the turnout, but in my honest opinion, at 3/1 it represents a ridiculous value for money as I'd put them both at evens. UKIP can win here, they are getting a very warm welcome and Corbyn is destroying his core vote."
There are some errors in this. There are all 9 wards and Crompton is in Oldham East
Any anecdata from an anonymous source, concluding in a betting tip is deeply suspect.
Note his last line: "Corbyn is destroying his core vote" - not "Corbyn is destroying OUR core vote"
That's not to say I disagree with his conclusions, though!
I watched the week review on sky earlier, Kevin Maguire, a London based Mirror journalist is in total denial about immigration. All the while they are their vote will continue to drop.
I don't think he's in denial, he just doesn't want to admit he might have got anything wrong.
The point is for every person in London agreeing with him there's two elsewhere disagreeing. Labour have lost Scotland completely, it's anybody's guess how low they'll fall.
I'm curious; in this 'immigration' debate what immigration are we referring to that is negative? Is just immigration in the last ten years, or does it go beyond that into all/most post-war immigration?
This is just a question, btw, I'm genuinely curious.
Twitter really is a pile of crap. Another infuriating thing is you cant zoom in on an image on the phone.
In more uplifting news, assuming nothing major happens in the next few hours, the morning thread will feature a discussion about AV and some history lessons.
Nota bene, this is not the main magnum opus on AV, that will be published before Christmas
I'm curious; in this 'immigration' debate what immigration are we referring to that is negative? Is just immigration in the last ten years, or does it go beyond that into all/most post-war immigration?
This is just a question, btw, I'm genuinely curious.
The large increase in the last ten or so years was the problem. Before that the rate of immigration was substantially lower:
"Oldham_Campaigner" signed up to reddit 2 hours ago, just to post that.
Beware anecdata.
Hmm, yeah. I'd assumed he was a Kipper but posting reasonably honestly - that gives me more cause for doubt. Though fair play (sort of) to UKIP if they've genuinely thought of using Reddit in that way...
I'm curious; in this 'immigration' debate what immigration are we referring to that is negative? Is just immigration in the last ten years, or does it go beyond that into all/most post-war immigration?
This is just a question, btw, I'm genuinely curious.
Just my view, but based on knocking on hundreds of doors.
Outside of London few towns have seen large migrant in comings until recent years, there is no denying it has caused resentment as wages are compressed, housing waiting lists lengthen and doctors and schools become stretched. This is most prevalent in working class areas.
I'm curious; in this 'immigration' debate what immigration are we referring to that is negative? Is just immigration in the last ten years, or does it go beyond that into all/most post-war immigration?
This is just a question, btw, I'm genuinely curious.
The large increase in the last ten or so years was the problem. Before that the rate of immigration was substantially lower:
The rate before that may have been lower but there was still a sizeable resentment of it even when it was a manageable amount and was filling vacant jobs.
I think there needs to be some honesty amongst those against mass immigration that while not all opposition to immigration is motivated by racism, some is. Being able to see that should make their current argument all the stronger.
I'm curious; in this 'immigration' debate what immigration are we referring to that is negative? Is just immigration in the last ten years, or does it go beyond that into all/most post-war immigration?
This is just a question, btw, I'm genuinely curious.
The large increase in the last ten or so years was the problem. Before that the rate of immigration was substantially lower:
The rate before that may have been lower but there was still a sizeable resentment of it even when it was a manageable amount and was filling vacant jobs.
I think there needs to be some honesty amongst those against mass immigration that while not all opposition to immigration is motivated by racism, some is. Being able to see that should make their current argument all the stronger.
But it wasn't a 'problem' back then in a political sense. The sharp increase seen ten years ago has changed that. I believe the problem is not immigration, but the number of immigrants.
I'm curious; in this 'immigration' debate what immigration are we referring to that is negative? Is just immigration in the last ten years, or does it go beyond that into all/most post-war immigration?
This is just a question, btw, I'm genuinely curious.
The large increase in the last ten or so years was the problem. Before that the rate of immigration was substantially lower:
The rate before that may have been lower but there was still a sizeable resentment of it even when it was a manageable amount and was filling vacant jobs.
I think there needs to be some honesty amongst those against mass immigration that while not all opposition to immigration is motivated by racism, some is. Being able to see that should make their current argument all the stronger.
I'm curious; in this 'immigration' debate what immigration are we referring to that is negative? Is just immigration in the last ten years, or does it go beyond that into all/most post-war immigration?
This is just a question, btw, I'm genuinely curious.
The large increase in the last ten or so years was the problem. Before that the rate of immigration was substantially lower:
The rate before that may have been lower but there was still a sizeable resentment of it even when it was a manageable amount and was filling vacant jobs.
I think there needs to be some honesty amongst those against mass immigration that while not all opposition to immigration is motivated by racism, some is. Being able to see that should make their current argument all the stronger.
Conversely those who champion mass immigration should admit that most opposition is motivated by realism, not racism.
I'm curious; in this 'immigration' debate what immigration are we referring to that is negative? Is just immigration in the last ten years, or does it go beyond that into all/most post-war immigration?
This is just a question, btw, I'm genuinely curious.
It's mixed, and different for different times. Immigration from India has largely had positive impact, adding culturally, economically and socially to the nation. Immigration from pakistan has *largely* had a devastating impact creating ghettoised communities who live on welfare and despise the wider society they live in, insist on marrying cousins from their own country and waging a war and contempt on the values that make us rich and prosperous.
Immigration from easten europe again is mixed, in many cases the labour from poland has brought with it a seem of healthy young men ready and willing to turn their hands to unskilled and semi skilled work, often bringing very fertile young women. The consequence have turned a declining population of youngsters to a boom that we havent as public policy had to deal with, and are still havinf difficulty dealing with.
On the other hand, other areas of eastern europe has resulted in large number of Roma. Who are about as welcome and useful as the clap in a brothel.
The sheer pace and sustained increases since Labour in 1997 opened the doors have resulted in much of our public infrastructure creaking. Our slow and unresponsive planning systems combined with colossal demand has caused house prices to climb, climb and climb.
Ben Bradshaw has tweeted this is a dreadful poll for Labour. Amongst the responses is comedy eoin consoling the corbynista s by saying the Ipsos poll on weds shows jc is the best viewed leader...
A few posters downthread have been very derisory about MPs nominating Corbyn, saying it was an obvious mistake. I presume these posters all got on Corbyn at 200 - 1 and are posting from their yachts, because for most people the idea that a far left candidacy was possible (never mind likely) was ridiculous at the time. Everyone expected that one of the main contenders would do SOMETHING and pull away from the peloton, not that the rank outsider would recruit most of the Green Party and win
Ben Bradshaw has tweeted this is a dreadful poll for Labour. Amongst the responses is comedy eoin consoling the corbynista s by saying the Ipsos poll on weds shows jc is the best viewed leader...
He's one hell of an agent for us.
Dr Eoin Clarke blocked me on twitter a while back.
"The reason the Tory lead is bigger than in recent polls giving them a lead of only six or seven points is down to ComRes having a different methodology, not a sudden fracturing of support. If you are interested in the specifics of this, the reason for the gap is probably ComRes’s new turnout model. Rather than weighting people based on how likely they claim they are to vote, ComRes estimate people’s likelihood to vote based on demographic factors like age and class. In practice, it means weighting down young people and working class people who are more likely to support Labour."
This seems much more reasonable than the self-selecting question.
Indeed - as many of us said repeatedly before May. The biggest problem for Labour now is the blindness of the membership to what they've done. Only the other day NPXMP was saying he/they were happy with the Corbyn approach so far. It beggars belief to witness such a level of crass stupidity and can only be explained by a level of ignorance about the British people of quite staggering proportions.
That stupidity doesn't exist because of Jihadi Jez, rather the obverse, so shouldn't we be eternally grateful for the Labour party having provided us with such irrefutable evidence of the fact?
A few posters downthread have been very derisory about MPs nominating Corbyn, saying it was an obvious mistake. I presume these posters all got on Corbyn at 200 - 1 and are posting from their yachts, because for most people the idea that a far left candidacy was possible (never mind likely) was ridiculous at the time. Everyone expected that one of the main contenders would do SOMETHING and pull away from the peloton, not that the rank outsider would recruit most of the Green Party and win
I take the point, but if MPs thought he would be a bad leader, they presumably had an additional responsibility to their party not to nominate him just in case the impossible happened, rather than engage in sympathy nominations.
Ben Bradshaw has tweeted this is a dreadful poll for Labour. Amongst the responses is comedy eoin consoling the corbynista s by saying the Ipsos poll on weds shows jc is the best viewed leader...
He's one hell of an agent for us.
Dr Eoin Clarke blocked me on twitter a while back.
Badge of honour. Tbh just follow polly t, she's always retweeting his fantasy facts
I'm curious; in this 'immigration' debate what immigration are we referring to that is negative? Is just immigration in the last ten years, or does it go beyond that into all/most post-war immigration?
This is just a question, btw, I'm genuinely curious.
The large increase in the last ten or so years was the problem. Before that the rate of immigration was substantially lower:
The rate before that may have been lower but there was still a sizeable resentment of it even when it was a manageable amount and was filling vacant jobs.
I think there needs to be some honesty amongst those against mass immigration that while not all opposition to immigration is motivated by racism, some is. Being able to see that should make their current argument all the stronger.
But it wasn't a 'problem' back then in a political sense.
Ben Bradshaw has tweeted this is a dreadful poll for Labour. Amongst the responses is comedy eoin consoling the corbynista s by saying the Ipsos poll on weds shows jc is the best viewed leader...
He's one hell of an agent for us.
Dr Eoin Clarke blocked me on twitter a while back.
You are in exalted company TSE. I've been blocked too.
Ben Bradshaw has tweeted this is a dreadful poll for Labour. Amongst the responses is comedy eoin consoling the corbynista s by saying the Ipsos poll on weds shows jc is the best viewed leader...
He's one hell of an agent for us.
Dr Eoin Clarke blocked me on twitter a while back.
You are in exalted company TSE. I've been blocked too.
Have you also been blocked by George Galloway too?
Ed Balls losing Morley has to be one of the more significant political dominos ever, no?
Was it? Would he have stood for the leadership? Could he have somehow been any more supportive or advisory to his wife if he had still been an MP? Assuming not then would Balls have been in the shadow cabinet? Cooper pointedly refused to serve. Of course given the abject failure of the three stooge candidates would labour think a Lou Costello option a viable alternative?
I would be inclined to think that Balls would have ground Corbyn into the dust. He has more presence than his wife. The Morley result was a disaster for Labour.
Balls was openly contemptuous of Ed Miliband (perhaps in tune with the rest of the country!) But I am far from convinced that he would have done better than the other three.
Labours two fatal errors were abstaining on the welfare cuts and MPs loaning their nominations to Corbyn.
It was a passive-aggresive suicide. "Now look at what you have made me do..."
I think Labour was already an anachronism only no one noticed until the Scots very forcibly made the point.
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Liz Mair, a “well-connected” former online communications director for the Republican National Committee, is trying to line up secret donors behind a “guerrilla campaign” to “defeat and destroy” Donald Trump’s frontrunning presidential candidacy. The Journal adds that other establishment Republicans now seem to be ramping up both the scale and bluntness of their attacks on Trump as well, including new SuperPAC campaigns, but Mair’s group, Trump Card LLC, might end up being the most extreme. It apparently plans to produce ads and web videos “that attract media attention based on their 'outrageousness and boundary-breaking or bizarre nature’” including such tactics as comparing Trump to his arch-nemesis Rosie O'Donnell, hiring a Trump impersonator to emphasize the candidate's jerkitude, and highlighting how Trump's positions and business tactics run counter to Republican ideology. On top of all that, the intention of the campaign is to attack Trump so brutally that his supporters not only abandon him, but abstain from voting in the primaries altogether. -------------------------------------------------
Trump is vulnerable to attack and ridicule ; he is easy to parody ...the GOP will make a laughing stock of him ...he's like a big spoilt kid incapable of taking criticism
The GOP hit squad will get rid of Trump ...they will not allow this rich jerk to ruin their chances
An Establishment attack will only make Trump stronger.
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Liz Mair, a “well-connected” former online communications director for the Republican National Committee, is trying to line up secret donors behind a “guerrilla campaign” to “defeat and destroy” Donald Trump’s frontrunning presidential candidacy. The Journal adds that other establishment Republicans now seem to be ramping up both the scale and bluntness of their attacks on Trump as well, including new SuperPAC campaigns, but Mair’s group, Trump Card LLC, might end up being the most extreme. It apparently plans to produce ads and web videos “that attract media attention based on their 'outrageousness and boundary-breaking or bizarre nature’” including such tactics as comparing Trump to his arch-nemesis Rosie O'Donnell, hiring a Trump impersonator to emphasize the candidate's jerkitude, and highlighting how Trump's positions and business tactics run counter to Republican ideology. On top of all that, the intention of the campaign is to attack Trump so brutally that his supporters not only abandon him, but abstain from voting in the primaries altogether. -------------------------------------------------
Trump is vulnerable to attack and ridicule ; he is easy to parody ...the GOP will make a laughing stock of him ...he's like a big spoilt kid incapable of taking criticism
The GOP hit squad will get rid of Trump ...they will not allow this rich jerk to ruin their chances
An Establishment attack will only make Trump stronger.
Thanks for the responses. Part of the reason for my curiosity, I admit is because part of my family comes comes from an immigrant background. My grandparents on my mum's side are from the West Indies and emigrated from there in the 50s.
Ben Bradshaw has tweeted this is a dreadful poll for Labour. Amongst the responses is comedy eoin consoling the corbynista s by saying the Ipsos poll on weds shows jc is the best viewed leader...
He's one hell of an agent for us.
Dr Eoin Clarke blocked me on twitter a while back.
You are in exalted company TSE. I've been blocked too.
Have you also been blocked by George Galloway too?
Ben Bradshaw has tweeted this is a dreadful poll for Labour. Amongst the responses is comedy eoin consoling the corbynista s by saying the Ipsos poll on weds shows jc is the best viewed leader...
He's one hell of an agent for us.
Dr Eoin Clarke blocked me on twitter a while back.
You are in exalted company TSE. I've been blocked too.
Have you also been blocked by George Galloway too?
I seemed to have slipped that net so far.
I got blocked for telling him, Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigably,
Ben Bradshaw has tweeted this is a dreadful poll for Labour. Amongst the responses is comedy eoin consoling the corbynista s by saying the Ipsos poll on weds shows jc is the best viewed leader...
He's one hell of an agent for us.
Dr Eoin Clarke blocked me on twitter a while back.
You are in exalted company TSE. I've been blocked too.
Have you also been blocked by George Galloway too?
I seemed to have slipped that net so far.
I got blocked for telling him, Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigably,
Thanks for the responses. Part of the reason for my curiosity, I admit is because part of my family comes comes from an immigrant background. My grandparents on my mum's side are from the West Indies and emigrated from there in the 50s.
I lost count of the "immigrants", (it's not a pleasant expression) who I canvassed at the GE who insisted we had to control numbers.
I'm curious; in this 'immigration' debate what immigration are we referring to that is negative? Is just immigration in the last ten years, or does it go beyond that into all/most post-war immigration?
This is just a question, btw, I'm genuinely curious.
It's mixed, and different for different times. Immigration from India has largely had positive impact, adding culturally, economically and socially to the nation. Immigration from pakistan has *largely* had a devastating impact creating ghettoised communities who live on welfare and despise the wider society they live in, insist on marrying cousins from their own country and waging a war and contempt on the values that make us rich and prosperous.
Immigration from easten europe again is mixed, in many cases the labour from poland has brought with it a seem of healthy young men ready and willing to turn their hands to unskilled and semi skilled work, often bringing very fertile young women. The consequence have turned a declining population of youngsters to a boom that we havent as public policy had to deal with, and are still havinf difficulty dealing with.
On the other hand, other areas of eastern europe has resulted in large number of Roma. Who are about as welcome and useful as the clap in a brothel.
The sheer pace and sustained increases since Labour in 1997 opened the doors have resulted in much of our public infrastructure creaking. Our slow and unresponsive planning systems combined with colossal demand has caused house prices to climb, climb and climb.
You will doubtless be accused of racism, which I doubt is true. Regardless, the views you express above represent views held by many of my acquaintance and all that hold them are entitled to voice them. For the record I broadly agree with these views.
Ben Bradshaw has tweeted this is a dreadful poll for Labour. Amongst the responses is comedy eoin consoling the corbynista s by saying the Ipsos poll on weds shows jc is the best viewed leader...
He's one hell of an agent for us.
Dr Eoin Clarke blocked me on twitter a while back.
You are in exalted company TSE. I've been blocked too.
Have you also been blocked by George Galloway too?
I seemed to have slipped that net so far.
I got blocked for telling him, Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigably,
When he had his radio show, I remember a caller saying that and he seemed to like it. He may not have liked your militarized user name?
Thanks for the responses. Part of the reason for my curiosity, I admit is because part of my family comes comes from an immigrant background. My grandparents on my mum's side are from the West Indies and emigrated from there in the 50s.
I lost count of the "immigrants", (it's not a pleasant expression) who I canvassed at the GE who insisted we had to control numbers.
There were immigrants on BBC London News (a week ago I think) supporting Cameron's policy on EU migrants and benefits, so I'm not surprised.
Ben Bradshaw has tweeted this is a dreadful poll for Labour. Amongst the responses is comedy eoin consoling the corbynista s by saying the Ipsos poll on weds shows jc is the best viewed leader...
He's one hell of an agent for us.
Dr Eoin Clarke blocked me on twitter a while back.
You are in exalted company TSE. I've been blocked too.
Have you also been blocked by George Galloway too?
I seemed to have slipped that net so far.
I got blocked for telling him, Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigably,
When he had his radio show, I remember a caller saying that and he seemed to like it. He may not have liked your militarized user name?
I'll let you into a little secret that will shock many PBers, on election night, I nearly liked the result in Bradford West as much as the result in Rochester and Strood.
Thanks for the responses. Part of the reason for my curiosity, I admit is because part of my family comes comes from an immigrant background. My grandparents on my mum's side are from the West Indies and emigrated from there in the 50s.
I lost count of the "immigrants", (it's not a pleasant expression) who I canvassed at the GE who insisted we had to control numbers.
The first person who told me this country had to do something about immigration was an Indian first generation immigrant.
Thanks for the responses. Part of the reason for my curiosity, I admit is because part of my family comes comes from an immigrant background. My grandparents on my mum's side are from the West Indies and emigrated from there in the 50s.
I lost count of the "immigrants", (it's not a pleasant expression) who I canvassed at the GE who insisted we had to control numbers.
There were immigrants on BBC London News (a week ago I think) supporting Cameron's policy on EU migrants and benefits, so I'm not surprised.
Overwhelmingly Eastern Europeans are wary of the Roma.
Harriet Harman's response to Osborne's July Budget and the decision to abstain on the welfare cuts created the momentum for Corbyn. A very serious error of judgement on her part.
It was an attempt to talk sanity rather than absurdity. True the labour party did not listen, but that is why in the end it has to be assessed as unsuitable for government.
A rightwing Tory committed to a neoliberal agenda would tend to see the world that way but coming from a stand -in Labour leader it was appalling.
I think you're missing the point. Harman is no favourite of mine but she caught a glimmer of the truth about why Labour lost in May - as always it was the economy stupid - the public do not trust Labour to sort out the economy and accept the need for austerity [ however little the like the details]. Ever since Corbyn reversed her attempts to make the party see sense and rowed the party further left the writing for Corbyn's Labour has been on the wall. As a tory I'm very pleased that the membership cannot see this.
I am not surprised that as a Tory you are happy with Harman's performance. Many voters failed to support Labour in May because they were perceived as Torylite in their attitude to austerity and failed to offer an alternative. Labour was on the defensive on the economy throughout the last Parliament due to its failure to effectively counter the Tory Coalition 'Clearing up Labour's mess ' narrative.That IMHO is why Labour failed to make progress. Most voters are pretty ignorant when it comes to economics but perhaps find it easier to spot whether meaningful change was on offer from the Opposition. I happen to believe that Ed Balls was right about Osborne's austerity policies and were they alive I suspect he would have had the support of former Chancellors such as - Roy Jenkins - Reggie Maudling- RA Butler and Hugh Gaitskell.
Many thanks to Tissue Price and Tom Wilson for the link. The Labour party is in deep trouble on that report. It looks as if the WWC has already formed a judgment about the values of the new leadership.
How could a party's membership get so out of touch with its own voters? That's the big puzzle.
Not so puzzling. Labour treat their voters with contempt. They know better than their voters do. Don't need to ask their views on immigration, EU referendum, national security, nuclear deterrent etc etc.... They will get what they are given.
I thin it is rather that the modern UK metropolitan elite left (aka the Corbynistas) are a grafting of Multiculturalism (aka every culture but English is wonderful) onto saloon bar Marxism.
The first part means that, to the Corbanistas, WWC are somewhere between suspect and guilty of racism/toryism. Also their culture is evil, stupid & non existent (yes, I know).
Strangely the WWC do not think that, just by existing, they are guilt of anything.
Harriet Harman's response to Osborne's July Budget and the decision to abstain on the welfare cuts created the momentum for Corbyn. A very serious error of judgement on her part.
It was an attempt to talk sanity rather than absurdity. True the labour party did not listen, but that is why in the end it has to be assessed as unsuitable for government.
A rightwing Tory committed to a neoliberal agenda would tend to see the world that way but coming from a stand -in Labour leader it was appalling.
I think you're missing the point. Harman is no favourite of mine but she caught a glimmer of the truth about why Labour lost in May - as always it was the economy stupid - the public do not trust Labour to sort out the economy and accept the need for austerity [ however little the like the details]. Ever since Corbyn reversed her attempts to make the party see sense and rowed the party further left the writing for Corbyn's Labour has been on the wall. As a tory I'm very pleased that the membership cannot see this.
I am not surprised that as a Tory you are happy with Harman's performance. Many voters failed to support Labour in May because they were perceived as Torylite in their attitude to austerity and failed to offer an alternative. Labour was on the defensive on the economy throughout the last Parliament due to its failure to effectively counter the Tory Coalition 'Clearing up Labour's mess ' narrative.That IMHO is why Labour failed to make progress. Most voters are pretty ignorant when it comes to economics but perhaps find it easier to spot whether meaningful change was on offer from the Opposition. I happen to believe that Ed Balls was right about Osborne's austerity policies and were they alive I suspect he would have had the support of former Chancellors such as - Roy Jenkins - Reggie Maudling- RA Butler and Hugh Gaitskell.
The number of voters who failed to support Labour because they viewed the party as Torylite would have been tiny compared to the number who regarded the party as too left-wing.
There is undoubtedly an element of society that blames immigration for everything, that is ridiculous. But it is undeniable that the numbers coming here are pushing our resources and infrastructure to breaking point, of course immigration can be positive but not all of it, it must be managed.
Many thanks to Tissue Price and Tom Wilson for the link. The Labour party is in deep trouble on that report. It looks as if the WWC has already formed a judgment about the values of the new leadership.
How could a party's membership get so out of touch with its own voters? That's the big puzzle.
Not so puzzling. Labour treat their voters with contempt. They know better than their voters do. Don't need to ask their views on immigration, EU referendum, national security, nuclear deterrent etc etc.... They will get what they are given.
I thin it is rather that the modern UK metropolitan elite left (aka the Corbynistas) are a grafting of Multiculturalism (aka every culture but English is wonderful) onto saloon bar Marxism.
The first part means that, to the Corbanistas, WWC are somewhere between suspect and guilty of racism/toryism. Also their culture is evil, stupid & non existent (yes, I know).
Strangely the WWC do not think that, just by existing, they are guilt of anything.
Parties often lead their voters. Cameron certainly was ahead of his party on gay rights for example. Even UKIP get this with Farage.
Many thanks to Tissue Price and Tom Wilson for the link. The Labour party is in deep trouble on that report. It looks as if the WWC has already formed a judgment about the values of the new leadership.
How could a party's membership get so out of touch with its own voters? That's the big puzzle.
Not so puzzling. Labour treat their voters with contempt. They know better than their voters do. Don't need to ask their views on immigration, EU referendum, national security, nuclear deterrent etc etc.... They will get what they are given.
I thin it is rather that the modern UK metropolitan elite left (aka the Corbynistas) are a grafting of Multiculturalism (aka every culture but English is wonderful) onto saloon bar Marxism.
The first part means that, to the Corbanistas, WWC are somewhere between suspect and guilty of racism/toryism. Also their culture is evil, stupid & non existent (yes, I know).
Strangely the WWC do not think that, just by existing, they are guilt of anything.
Parties often lead their voters. Cameron certainly was ahead of his party on gay rights for example. Even UKIP get this with Farage.
Whether they lead them the right was is another matter!
So far 22,000 people have signed an e-petition against filibustering in protest at Tory MP Philip Davies talking out a bill on free hospital parking for carers:
Many thanks to Tissue Price and Tom Wilson for the link. The Labour party is in deep trouble on that report. It looks as if the WWC has already formed a judgment about the values of the new leadership.
How could a party's membership get so out of touch with its own voters? That's the big puzzle.
Not so puzzling. Labour treat their voters with contempt. They know better than their voters do. Don't need to ask their views on immigration, EU referendum, national security, nuclear deterrent etc etc.... They will get what they are given.
I thin it is rather that the modern UK metropolitan elite left (aka the Corbynistas) are a grafting of Multiculturalism (aka every culture but English is wonderful) onto saloon bar Marxism.
The first part means that, to the Corbanistas, WWC are somewhere between suspect and guilty of racism/toryism. Also their culture is evil, stupid & non existent (yes, I know).
Strangely the WWC do not think that, just by existing, they are guilt of anything.
Corbynistas are not the Metropolitan elite. They are the far left and they have never been close to government. The Metropolitan elite actually holds power - in politics, the media, the judiciary, the City and big business. Corbynism is as much a reaction to this elite as grassroots UKIP is (much of the leadership is part of it).
I've installed Office 2016 and for the life of me I can't see any difference from Office 2013.
There was a huge windows 10 update the other day and other than than the query space on the taskbar now saying "I'm Cortana. Ask me anything." I can't see anything new in that either.
So far 22,000 people have signed an e-petition against filibustering in protest at Tory MP Philip Davies talking out a bill on free hospital parking for carers:
There is undoubtedly an element of society that blames immigration for everything, that is ridiculous. But it is undeniable that the numbers coming here are pushing our resources and infrastructure to breaking point, of course immigration can be positive but not all of it, it must be managed.
It would help a lot if immigrants magically appeared at 0900 and magically disappeared at 1700. It would seem that a lot of people think that this actually is the case.
I can't seem to quote kle4, but what I want to say is that if you accepted the previous 'fact'that only a moderate (Miliband minus, say) can win the Labour leadership post Thatcher, it was reasonable to think that not letting Corbyn in would be more dangerous than nominating him. By beating him fair and square you reaffirm Labour as a moderate party and silence the Seumas Milne element. Only running a few Brownies and a Blairite would feed the media narrative of a boring, bland, narrow leadership contest. Of course if you thought there was any chance you could in fact enable a near pacifist leader to be elected and install McDonnell as Shadow Chancellor you would not nominate him...
I've installed Office 2016 and for the life of me I can't see any difference from Office 2013.
There was a huge windows 10 update the other day and other than than the query space on the taskbar now saying "I'm Cortana. Ask me anything." I can't see anything new in that either.
For some reason I feel vaguely cheated.
FPT x several. Re Library membership. Yes, I could have rejoined but they wanted umpteen bits of ID and poof of address supplying. For the amount that I would have used it, I couldn't be arsed and gave up.
Labour support at the ballot box could be halved in the first electoral test for Jeremy Corbyn since becoming leader, private polling by the party has suggested.
Senior figures, including a shadow cabinet minister, have expressed alarm at the prospects for Labour in the upcoming Oldham by-election, with Mr Corbyn seen as a problem on the doorstep with voters, as the crisis over his leadership deepens.
In door-to-door canvassing in the constituency ahead of May’s general election, local party workers are understood to have found 32 per cent of voters were supporting Labour.
Thanks for the responses. Part of the reason for my curiosity, I admit is because part of my family comes comes from an immigrant background. My grandparents on my mum's side are from the West Indies and emigrated from there in the 50s.
I lost count of the "immigrants", (it's not a pleasant expression) who I canvassed at the GE who insisted we had to control numbers.
an Indian first generation immigrant.
How do you qualify as a second generation immigrant?
Thanks for the responses. Part of the reason for my curiosity, I admit is because part of my family comes comes from an immigrant background. My grandparents on my mum's side are from the West Indies and emigrated from there in the 50s.
I lost count of the "immigrants", (it's not a pleasant expression) who I canvassed at the GE who insisted we had to control numbers.
an Indian first generation immigrant.
How do you qualify as a second generation immigrant?
You emigrate as a child, then come back again? Although you'd be both a first and second generation immigrant simultaneously.
There is undoubtedly an element of society that blames immigration for everything, that is ridiculous. But it is undeniable that the numbers coming here are pushing our resources and infrastructure to breaking point, of course immigration can be positive but not all of it, it must be managed.
It would help a lot if immigrants magically appeared at 0900 and magically disappeared at 1700. It would seem that a lot of people think that this actually is the case.
The problem with immigration is the denial bit - if you want to add a fair sized town of peole to the country every year, you are going to need to build a fair sized town, houses, schools, shops, hospitals etc..
Oh, and teach them that they are *joining* this country, not getting a ghetto.
Thanks for the responses. Part of the reason for my curiosity, I admit is because part of my family comes comes from an immigrant background. My grandparents on my mum's side are from the West Indies and emigrated from there in the 50s.
I lost count of the "immigrants", (it's not a pleasant expression) who I canvassed at the GE who insisted we had to control numbers.
an Indian first generation immigrant.
How do you qualify as a second generation immigrant?
Controlled explosion at Bluewater Shopping Centre Bomb disposal experts were called to carry out a controlled explosion at the Bluewater Shopping Centre in Kent following the discovery of a suspect package. The centre, packed with Christmas shoppers, was partially evacuated while the suspect package was dealth with. Witnesses said they heard a huge bang. A spokesman for Kent Police said: 'Kent Police is currently dealing with a security alert at Bluewater shopping centre after a package was discovered unattended. "Several shops have been evacuated as a precaution. Enquiries are continuing.'
Many thanks to Tissue Price and Tom Wilson for the link. The Labour party is in deep trouble on that report. It looks as if the WWC has already formed a judgment about the values of the new leadership.
How could a party's membership get so out of touch with its own voters? That's the big puzzle.
Not so puzzling. Labour treat their voters with contempt. They know better than their voters do. Don't need to ask their views on immigration, EU referendum, national security, nuclear deterrent etc etc.... They will get what they are given.
I thin it is rather that the modern UK metropolitan elite left (aka the Corbynistas) are a grafting of Multiculturalism (aka every culture but English is wonderful) onto saloon bar Marxism.
The first part means that, to the Corbanistas, WWC are somewhere between suspect and guilty of racism/toryism. Also their culture is evil, stupid & non existent (yes, I know).
Strangely the WWC do not think that, just by existing, they are guilt of anything.
Corbynistas are not the Metropolitan elite. They are the far left and they have never been close to government. The Metropolitan elite actually holds power - in politics, the media, the judiciary, the City and big business. Corbynism is as much a reaction to this elite as grassroots UKIP is (much of the leadership is part of it).
I was referring to the "UK metropolitan elite left" - the self proclaimed Inner Party of the Labour party. Imagine the It's Grim Up North London (from Private Eye) does politics.
Many thanks to Tissue Price and Tom Wilson for the link. The Labour party is in deep trouble on that report. It looks as if the WWC has already formed a judgment about the values of the new leadership.
How could a party's membership get so out of touch with its own voters? That's the big puzzle.
Not so puzzling. Labour treat their voters with contempt. They know better than their voters do. Don't need to ask their views on immigration, EU referendum, national security, nuclear deterrent etc etc.... They will get what they are given.
I thin it is rather that the modern UK metropolitan elite left (aka the Corbynistas) are a grafting of Multiculturalism (aka every culture but English is wonderful) onto saloon bar Marxism.
The first part means that, to the Corbanistas, WWC are somewhere between suspect and guilty of racism/toryism. Also their culture is evil, stupid & non existent (yes, I know).
Strangely the WWC do not think that, just by existing, they are guilt of anything.
Parties often lead their voters. Cameron certainly was ahead of his party on gay rights for example. Even UKIP get this with Farage.
Parties do often lead their voters. Indeed, it may be argued that this is where politics is at its best.
The Corbanistas *hate* a substantial portion of those who (used to) vote for their party.
A few points. Most of the new Labour membership will...
1. Live in London 2. Subscribe to the London Review of Books 3. Not be seen dead somewhere like Oldham. Unless a branch of Cereal Killer Cafe opens there...
Controlled explosion at Bluewater Shopping Centre Bomb disposal experts were called to carry out a controlled explosion at the Bluewater Shopping Centre in Kent following the discovery of a suspect package. The centre, packed with Christmas shoppers, was partially evacuated while the suspect package was dealth with. Witnesses said they heard a huge bang. A spokesman for Kent Police said: 'Kent Police is currently dealing with a security alert at Bluewater shopping centre after a package was discovered unattended. "Several shops have been evacuated as a precaution. Enquiries are continuing.'
5-1 some kid is not getting his XBox for Christmas now.
Comments
Nota bene, this is not the main magnum opus on AV, that will be published before Christmas
Bloody hell, talk about getting our hopes up.
Edit - your 5000th had red Ken. LOL
Note his last line: "Corbyn is destroying his core vote" - not "Corbyn is destroying OUR core vote"
That's not to say I disagree with his conclusions, though!
This is just a question, btw, I'm genuinely curious.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/UK_Migration_1970-2013.svg/400px-UK_Migration_1970-2013.svg.png
Outside of London few towns have seen large migrant in comings until recent years, there is no denying it has caused resentment as wages are compressed, housing waiting lists lengthen and doctors and schools become stretched. This is most prevalent in working class areas.
The rate before that may have been lower but there was still a sizeable resentment of it even when it was a manageable amount and was filling vacant jobs.
I think there needs to be some honesty amongst those against mass immigration that while not all opposition to immigration is motivated by racism, some is. Being able to see that should make their current argument all the stronger.
Immigration from easten europe again is mixed, in many cases the labour from poland has brought with it a seem of healthy young men ready and willing to turn their hands to unskilled and semi skilled work, often bringing very fertile young women. The consequence have turned a declining population of youngsters to a boom that we havent as public policy had to deal with, and are still havinf difficulty dealing with.
On the other hand, other areas of eastern europe has resulted in large number of Roma. Who are about as welcome and useful as the clap in a brothel.
The sheer pace and sustained increases since Labour in 1997 opened the doors have resulted in much of our public infrastructure creaking. Our slow and unresponsive planning systems combined with colossal demand has caused house prices to climb, climb and climb.
He's one hell of an agent for us.
http://hurryupharry.org/2015/11/20/labour-maquis/
Trump is Obi Wan to the GOPs Darth Vader.
@TSEofPB: I love it when horny bi-curious females love or retweet my political tweets. Political nerdgasm for me.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUXcF30WwAQS5yx.jpg
I wonder what their problem is....
I'll get my coat....
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/20/labours-oldham-west-byele_n_8609946.html
He may not have liked your militarized user name?
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/jeremy-corbyn-supporters-vote-durham-10478898
https://twitter.com/mattholehouse/status/668073851503407104/photo/1
The first part means that, to the Corbanistas, WWC are somewhere between suspect and guilty of racism/toryism. Also their culture is evil, stupid & non existent (yes, I know).
Strangely the WWC do not think that, just by existing, they are guilt of anything.
So far 22,000 people have signed an e-petition against filibustering in protest at Tory MP Philip Davies talking out a bill on free hospital parking for carers:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/111441
There was a huge windows 10 update the other day and other than than the query space on the taskbar now saying "I'm Cortana. Ask me anything." I can't see anything new in that either.
For some reason I feel vaguely cheated.
The Sunday Times has an odd headline re expenses and a club frequented by people of negotiable virtue and a government Minister.
Of course if you thought there was any chance you could in fact enable a near pacifist leader to be elected and install McDonnell as Shadow Chancellor you would not nominate him...
Yes, I could have rejoined but they wanted umpteen bits of ID and poof of address supplying.
For the amount that I would have used it, I couldn't be arsed and gave up.
Oh, and teach them that they are *joining* this country, not getting a ghetto.
;-)
Controlled explosion at Bluewater Shopping Centre
Bomb disposal experts were called to carry out a controlled explosion at the Bluewater Shopping Centre in Kent following the discovery of a suspect package.
The centre, packed with Christmas shoppers, was partially evacuated while the suspect package was dealth with. Witnesses said they heard a huge bang.
A spokesman for Kent Police said: 'Kent Police is currently dealing with a security alert at Bluewater shopping centre after a package was discovered unattended.
"Several shops have been evacuated as a precaution. Enquiries are continuing.'
The Corbanistas *hate* a substantial portion of those who (used to) vote for their party.
1. Live in London
2. Subscribe to the London Review of Books
3. Not be seen dead somewhere like Oldham. Unless a branch of Cereal Killer Cafe opens there...
Oh and
4. They're likely not registered to vote.