@theobertram: "...it would appear some [of the media] were lying in wait to use the occasion [of Paris] to attack Jeremy Corbyn." https://t.co/gG3NjcBCRb
Around 100 refugees have arrived in Glasgow after a six-hour flight from Beirut with the Polish charter airline Enter Air, writes Auslan Cramb, Scottish Correspondent.
They arrived in torrential rain at around 3.31pm and will be met by a "welcome team" from five Scottish councils that will provide homes for them, including Edinburgh, Glasgow and North Ayrshire, but their arrival was deliberately low key.
Given how underpopulated Scotland is its probably the best destination for all our Syrian refugees.
Jeez. Imagine the worst that Syria has to offer, bred with MalcolmG.
Its likely that these would be the more decent ones. I agree the blinkered nationalism of the Mg types may well be a turn off for people who might have had a bellyful of nationalsim.
However Scotlands population has declined over the years and so it would make sense for Scotland to welcome all these refugees, although the aim would be to return them in the long run. I am also suggesting that UK govt money should go with it, I would not want the SNP to have to fund it all. Heaven forbid.
Although the feminists might be rejoicing that decision, was just inevitable when everybody has the internet everywhere they go and we all know what the #1 thing on the internet is.
Men's fashion. No wonder they went out of business
@theobertram: "...it would appear some [of the media] were lying in wait to use the occasion [of Paris] to attack Jeremy Corbyn." https://t.co/gG3NjcBCRb
If Corbyn goes the only riders who are worth considering are Ummuna Benn Cooper and Miliband D.
The most obvious is Benn. A desirable name for Corbyn supporters. Seems both new yet experienced which is appealing and he's got gravitas.
Cooper because she's by far the best woman and if Labour now consider they were a bit hasty she'd be the best of the previous rejects.
Ummunna is shiny and new which might be more appealing to the wider public than lefty Party members but after being stung by Corbyn he could well be the antidote.
And finally Miliband D. By a distance the most articulate and competent. Could well be the man for these uncertain times and the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron which after being bitten twice might be just what's needed. I just don't know whether he wants it.
If Corbyn goes the only riders who are worth considering are Ummuna Benn Cooper and Miliband D.
The most obvious is Benn. A desirable name for Corbyn supporters. Seems both new yet experienced which is appealing and he's got gravitas.
Cooper because she's by far the best woman and if Labour now consider they were a bit hasty she'd be the best of the previous rejects.
Ummunna is shiny and new which might be more appealing to the wider public than lefty Party members but after being stung by Corbyn he could well be the antidote.
And finally Miliband D. By a distance the most articulate and competent. Could well be the man for these uncertain times and the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron which after being bitten twice might be just what's needed. I just don't know whether he wants it.
Roger, you have not considered the nature of the electorate. As so often ;-)
If Corbyn goes the only riders who are worth considering are Ummuna Benn Cooper and Miliband D.
The most obvious is Benn. A desirable name for Corbyn supporters. Seems both new yet experienced which is appealing and he's got gravitas.
Cooper because she's by far the best woman and if Labour now consider they were a bit hasty she'd be the best of the previous rejects.
Ummunna is shiny and new which might be more appealing to the wider public than lefty Party members but after being stung by Corbyn he could well be the antidote.
And finally Miliband D. By a distance the most articulate and competent. Could well be the man for these uncertain times and the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron which after being bitten twice might be just what's needed. I just don't know whether he wants it.
Is David Miliband that articulate? He uses a lot of clever-sounding wonk words, but I've never thought he's very good at expressing a point clearly (it says it all that in the 2010 leadership contest, Ed was widely considered the more "human" communicator).
If Corbyn goes the only riders who are worth considering are Ummuna Benn Cooper and Miliband D.
The most obvious is Benn. A desirable name for Corbyn supporters. Seems both new yet experienced which is appealing and he's got gravitas.
Cooper because she's by far the best woman and if Labour now consider they were a bit hasty she'd be the best of the previous rejects.
Ummunna is shiny and new which might be more appealing to the wider public than lefty Party members but after being stung by Corbyn he could well be the antidote.
And finally Miliband D. By a distance the most articulate and competent. Could well be the man for these uncertain times and the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron which after being bitten twice might be just what's needed. I just don't know whether he wants it.
To win you have to
a) Get nominated by the PLP b) Win support in the unions and affiliates c) Win support in the CLPs
No evidence that DM and Chuka can delier (b) and (c). Cooper and Benn maybe, but it will depend on how Corbyn goes.
France, Britain, Russia and the US all getting together to solve problems caused by Germany.
Where have I heard that before?
The Germans were always happy with their share of profits from Eurofighter but when it came to taking payment risks they always managed to come up with laws inhibiting their participation, laws based on preventing German militarism raising its head again. They finessed the Hitler backstory with great skill.
If Corbyn goes the only riders who are worth considering are Ummuna Benn Cooper and Miliband D.
The most obvious is Benn. A desirable name for Corbyn supporters. Seems both new yet experienced which is appealing and he's got gravitas.
Cooper because she's by far the best woman and if Labour now consider they were a bit hasty she'd be the best of the previous rejects.
Ummunna is shiny and new which might be more appealing to the wider public than lefty Party members but after being stung by Corbyn he could well be the antidote.
And finally Miliband D. By a distance the most articulate and competent. Could well be the man for these uncertain times and the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron which after being bitten twice might be just what's needed. I just don't know whether he wants it.
What would you say Milliband D, greatest accomplishment was? I genuinely can't think of anything.
@theobertram: "...it would appear some [of the media] were lying in wait to use the occasion [of Paris] to attack Jeremy Corbyn." https://t.co/gG3NjcBCRb
The excuses for Corbyn's remarks are a bit weak. Corbyn had every opportunity to define what his response would be and to specify or confirm what the phrase shoot to kill means in the context of an armed anti terrorist response. The notion that the admittedly catchall phrase 'shoot to kill' specifically means shooting unarmed 'suspects' as the article claims is grossly prejudicial to the discussion. Probably because it comes from years of the left abusing our security services with the phrase. The real issue under discussion which Corbyn should have known and been quite clear about, is in fact about the police and security forces directly assaulting any such terrorists without the usual concern about preserving their lives and giving priority to arresting them.
In a semi vacant rambling response Corbyn gave every indication of quite simply not wanting to engage with the real issue at stake.
Miliband D will not be an option this side of an election and he does not seem to want it anyway but his interests now lie elsewhere like Portillo after his leadership defeat. Benn on the other hand is still in the Shadow Cabinet and more acceptable to the Left
the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron
Roger delivers MiliD the kiss of death...
Cooper all the way for me. I know politics is a matter of opinion but I think Cooper is the blindingly obvious choice. She's female, the Tories are weak on women voters. She's safe; she's clever; she's reasonable-sounding; she's experienced, and she's not tainted by being part of Corbyn's, erm, unusual (destined for utter destruction) leadership.
I think if Labour made her leader next week and she contested the 2020 GE, she'd make Labour at least the biggest party and would likely win a majority.
As a kid, I loved all the smugglers stories about Cornwall or the Cinque Ports
I did as well; the Dr Syn stories held me spell bound. My father read them to me but looking back now at the content I don't suppose they would be approved children's stories these days.
Of course the smuggler stories were not all fiction and Hurstpierpoint was, it would seem, quite a major distribution point. There is a local legend of a smugglers' tunnel that runs from the cellar of the New Inn in the High street out to the Danny House estate a mile or so to the South East.
The cellar of the pub dates back at least to the 14th century and we know that behind what is now the end of one of the barrel vaults there is a void which maybe the tunnel. However,when the last but one landlord wanted to break through and find out the costs of complying with all the regs was prohibitively expensive. So I guess we will always just have a local legend.
If Corbyn goes the only riders who are worth considering are Ummuna Benn Cooper and Miliband D.
The most obvious is Benn. A desirable name for Corbyn supporters. Seems both new yet experienced which is appealing and he's got gravitas.
Cooper because she's by far the best woman and if Labour now consider they were a bit hasty she'd be the best of the previous rejects.
Ummunna is shiny and new which might be more appealing to the wider public than lefty Party members but after being stung by Corbyn he could well be the antidote.
And finally Miliband D. By a distance the most articulate and competent. Could well be the man for these uncertain times and the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron which after being bitten twice might be just what's needed. I just don't know whether he wants it.
What would you say Milliband D, greatest accomplishment was? I genuinely can't think of anything.
That night he left Purnell stranded was really cringeworthy. Still can't believe he didn't resign. Everyone thought he was going to.
Although the feminists might be rejoicing that decision, was just inevitable when everybody has the internet everywhere they go and we all know what the #1 thing on the internet is.
If Corbyn goes the only riders who are worth considering are Ummuna Benn Cooper and Miliband D.
The most obvious is Benn. A desirable name for Corbyn supporters. Seems both new yet experienced which is appealing and he's got gravitas.
Cooper because she's by far the best woman and if Labour now consider they were a bit hasty she'd be the best of the previous rejects.
Ummunna is shiny and new which might be more appealing to the wider public than lefty Party members but after being stung by Corbyn he could well be the antidote.
And finally Miliband D. By a distance the most articulate and competent. Could well be the man for these uncertain times and the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron which after being bitten twice might be just what's needed. I just don't know whether he wants it.
What would you say Milliband D, greatest accomplishment was? I genuinely can't think of anything.
As a kid, I loved all the smugglers stories about Cornwall or the Cinque Ports
I did as well; the Dr Syn stories held me spell bound. My father read them to me but looking back now at the content I don't suppose they would be approved children's stories these days.
Of course the smuggler stories were not all fiction and Hurstpierpoint was, it would seem, quite a major distribution point. There is a local legend of a smugglers' tunnel that runs from the cellar of the New Inn in the High street out to the Danny House estate a mile or so to the South East.
The cellar of the pub dates back at least to the 14th century and we know that behind what is now the end of one of the barrel vaults there is a void which maybe the tunnel. However,when the last but one landlord wanted to break through and find out the costs of complying with all the regs was prohibitively expensive. So I guess we will always just have a local legend.
In any case, the imagination is probably more interesting than the reality...
If Corbyn goes the only riders who are worth considering are Ummuna Benn Cooper and Miliband D.
The most obvious is Benn. A desirable name for Corbyn supporters. Seems both new yet experienced which is appealing and he's got gravitas.
Cooper because she's by far the best woman and if Labour now consider they were a bit hasty she'd be the best of the previous rejects.
Ummunna is shiny and new which might be more appealing to the wider public than lefty Party members but after being stung by Corbyn he could well be the antidote.
And finally Miliband D. By a distance the most articulate and competent. Could well be the man for these uncertain times and the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron which after being bitten twice might be just what's needed. I just don't know whether he wants it.
What would you say Milliband D, greatest accomplishment was? I genuinely can't think of anything.
D Miliband's biggest accomplishment was in not damaging the country as much as his brother did (as in his time at DECC)
Latest ICM phone poll for Guardian has CON 39 LAB 33 LD 7 UKIP 12
But basically ICM are admitting they have not got a clue
No, all ICM are showing is nothing much has changed since May. We are barely six months into a sixty month electoral cycle - for all that everyone on here follows every twitch of the political thread, the truth is the opinion-shifting events have yet to happen.
They may not but there's plenty of time for "something".
I agree thats what ICM are suggesting from the refined data. How can anybody really put faith on the selection of respondents and their choice of refinement?
There has been no publication of any report into the pre election polling results yet I take it?
"What would you say Milliband D, greatest accomplishment was? I genuinely can't think of anything."
His political achievement was being Foreign Secretary. But if you'd heard him speak over the last couple of years he's been consistently more impressive than he ever was in government.
On topic:- no chance. The membership has changed dramatically since David Miliband narrowly won with the membership, and he has in any case alienated a large number of people who even voted for him then with his sore loser attitude.
HYUFD is onto something when he tips Hilary Benn, I think.
Thanks. Hilary Benn pre 2020, Chuka Umunna post 2020 is Labour's best bet in my view
If Corbyn goes the only riders who are worth considering are Ummuna Benn Cooper and Miliband D.
The most obvious is Benn. A desirable name for Corbyn supporters. Seems both new yet experienced which is appealing and he's got gravitas.
Cooper because she's by far the best woman and if Labour now consider they were a bit hasty she'd be the best of the previous rejects.
Ummunna is shiny and new which might be more appealing to the wider public than lefty Party members but after being stung by Corbyn he could well be the antidote.
And finally Miliband D. By a distance the most articulate and competent. Could well be the man for these uncertain times and the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron which after being bitten twice might be just what's needed. I just don't know whether he wants it.
What would you say Milliband D, greatest accomplishment was? I genuinely can't think of anything.
Getting beat by his younger brother?
The only person in Britain to lose an election to Ed Miliband.
Latest ICM phone poll for Guardian has CON 39 LAB 33 LD 7 UKIP 12
But basically ICM are admitting they have not got a clue
No, all ICM are showing is nothing much has changed since May. We are barely six months into a sixty month electoral cycle - for all that everyone on here follows every twitch of the political thread, the truth is the opinion-shifting events have yet to happen.
They may not but there's plenty of time for "something".
I agree thats what ICM are suggesting from the refined data. How can anybody really put faith on the selection of respondents and their choice of refinement?
There has been no publication of any report into the pre election polling results yet I take it?
"What would you say Milliband D, greatest accomplishment was? I genuinely can't think of anything."
His political achievement was being Foreign Secretary. But if you'd heard him speak over the last couple of years he's been consistently more impressive than he ever was in government.
So nothing of note then? Glad its not just me that couldn't think of anything.
Mr. Floater, the answer is obviously differential front end grip.
Mr. Mortimer, Miliband wasn't even the chap who had to jump first. It was cowardice on a magnificent scale.
If I were to write a history of the last 10 years, the moment at which New Labour stopped being able to judge the public mood would be symbolised by that night.
Purnell deserves to be welcomed back with open arms as the only man willing to back his judgement and ditch Brown before the results came in from the locals that night.
I won't be backing David Miliband. That banana boat has sailed.
Much depends on the circumstances of the change of leader.
If Jeremy Corbyn steps down of his own accord, we can take it that he is content that he will be succeeded by someone sufficiently ideologically sound. So we need to look among the candidates of the firm left.
If Jeremy Corbyn steps down after being forced out, there is in all probability no practical way to force a coronation. Any candidate who can muster 35 MPs will force a vote and it is highly unlikely that a second candidate can be completely excluded*. There is no evidence that the electorate has moved to the right since Jeremy Corbyn got elected so we should look to the most left wing candidate who can muster 35 MPs. Views will vary on who that may be.
So the long and the short of it is that we need to look to the leftier parts of the party for the next leader. There are so many candidates from the centre and the right who are way too short we can find value all over the place.
*unless a leftish candidate acceptable to the firm left is chosen for the coronation and acceded to by the right of the party. This seems improbable.
If Corbyn goes the only riders who are worth considering are Ummuna Benn Cooper and Miliband D.
The most obvious is Benn. A desirable name for Corbyn supporters. Seems both new yet experienced which is appealing and he's got gravitas.
Cooper because she's by far the best woman and if Labour now consider they were a bit hasty she'd be the best of the previous rejects.
Ummunna is shiny and new which might be more appealing to the wider public than lefty Party members but after being stung by Corbyn he could well be the antidote.
And finally Miliband D. By a distance the most articulate and competent. Could well be the man for these uncertain times and the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron which after being bitten twice might be just what's needed. I just don't know whether he wants it.
I still remember Benn's objection to withholding benefits after two children - "what about the mother of two children who gets raped, falls pregnant, and decides to have the baby?"
"What would you say Milliband D, greatest accomplishment was? I genuinely can't think of anything."
His political achievement was being Foreign Secretary. But if you'd heard him speak over the last couple of years he's been consistently more impressive than he ever was in government.
Agreed - he's been impressive. I still think the Miliband brothers are too nerdy to ever be that popular though. Ed Miliband is arguably one of the nicest party leaders we've ever seen, but I wasn't convinced from the start that he could ever be PM. It's like in school, people just don't take to nerds. David is slightly less nerdy, but nevertheless.
Without giving too much away, I attended my first ever political meeting the other day. I was invited as a non-aligned member of the community to a Labour meeting, and it was good. Poorly attended, but the council/community leaders there spoke impressively. But Corbyn was the enormous elephant in the room. The un-minuted attitude was 'okay-he's-a-ridiculous-choice-of-leader-but-we'll-still-have-elections-to-fight-after-he's-gone'. It must be pretty soul destroying being a Labour canvasser in a working-class Labour area like mine. It was said that Corbyn is going down well among keyboard warriors but not on doorsteps. I stifled a LOL at that.
With Corbyn in charge it is plain-sailing for the Tories. Get rid and put an Yvette Cooper in and it will change virtually overnight.
If Corbyn goes the only riders who are worth considering are Ummuna Benn Cooper and Miliband D.
The most obvious is Benn. A desirable name for Corbyn supporters. Seems both new yet experienced which is appealing and he's got gravitas.
Cooper because she's by far the best woman and if Labour now consider they were a bit hasty she'd be the best of the previous rejects.
Ummunna is shiny and new which might be more appealing to the wider public than lefty Party members but after being stung by Corbyn he could well be the antidote.
And finally Miliband D. By a distance the most articulate and competent. Could well be the man for these uncertain times and the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron which after being bitten twice might be just what's needed. I just don't know whether he wants it.
I still remember Benn's objection to withholding benefits after two children - "what about the mother of two children who gets raped, falls pregnant, and decides to have the baby?"
Aren't there special provisions for cases like this?
If Benn wants to be leader, he ought to resign and challenge Corbyn in about 9 minutes, just in time for the 6pm news.
Even IDS lasted two years there will be no move pre 2017
Labour will be finished by then. The heartland Labour vote is already deserting.
But Corbyn popularity is sweeping the nation (or some such BS on twitter/ BBC). To be fair though, he isn't down a Brown-ian level of polling (yet).
Haha.
As an example of how far down the Swanee the Corbynistas have gone, one particularly deluded Facebook mate with whom I have had detailed and long winded arguments has today quoted Hermann Goering. Without irony. To support his position in opposing attacks on Daesh.
Mr. Fenster, I think nerdiness is not an issue. Weirdness is. The two may sometimes overlap, but given how mainstream things like comic books and video games are now, they are definitely not one and the same.
the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron
Roger delivers MiliD the kiss of death...
Cooper all the way for me. I know politics is a matter of opinion but I think Cooper is the blindingly obvious choice. She's female, the Tories are weak on women voters. She's safe; she's clever; she's reasonable-sounding; she's experienced, and she's not tainted by being part of Corbyn's, erm, unusual (destined for utter destruction) leadership.
I think if Labour made her leader next week and she contested the 2020 GE, she'd make Labour at least the biggest party and would likely win a majority.
And I base that on no science whatsoever.
Err... we are talking about Yvette Cooper here, aren't we? That ghastly, shouty woman, who tried to ram through the House Seller's Pack legislation? A serial trougher who ripped off the taxpayer for every penny she could get. Experienced in government she maybe but that only exposed her complete absence of empathy with ordinary voters and her total unsuitedness for high office. For goodness sake is she couldn't even persuade members of her own party what chance would she have with the voters who Labour needs to win over?
Mr. Fenster, I think nerdiness is not an issue. Weirdness is. The two may sometimes overlap, but given how mainstream things like comic books and video games are now, they are definitely not one and the same.
I defer to your superior wisdom on this matter Mr Dancer
ps - worryingly, I often hear my wife telling her friends I'm weird...
the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron
Roger delivers MiliD the kiss of death...
Cooper all the way for me. I know politics is a matter of opinion but I think Cooper is the blindingly obvious choice. She's female, the Tories are weak on women voters. She's safe; she's clever; she's reasonable-sounding; she's experienced, and she's not tainted by being part of Corbyn's, erm, unusual (destined for utter destruction) leadership.
I think if Labour made her leader next week and she contested the 2020 GE, she'd make Labour at least the biggest party and would likely win a majority.
Dave must believe he has the FULL support of his party on the Syria vote.
I think now that he has dropped the idea to remove Assad from power as one of the stated aims of the intervention there will be a lot less internal opposition within the government.
Yes supporting a tyrant and war criminal who is willing to gas his own people is a really good idea.
It is just the same policy we have always followed.
Indeed. We turned a blind eye to Saddam's evil in the mid-80s because he was fighting our new enemy, Iran. It's fairly easy to make a connection between the Iran - Iraq war and Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and the first gulf war. That led to the second gulf war.
If we hadn't supported Saddam in the mid-80s, much of this mess might have been avoided.
Now, I'm not saying that Iran is ISIS - they're in no way comparable, even back then. But supporting someone we know is doing evil because he is fighting our enemy is a dangerous and rocky road to travel down.
Unfortunately our politicians will always vote with their pockets in mind not the best outcomes.
Mr. Fenster, I think nerdiness is not an issue. Weirdness is. The two may sometimes overlap, but given how mainstream things like comic books and video games are now, they are definitely not one and the same.
I defer to your superior wisdom on this matter Mr Dancer
ps - worryingly, I often hear my wife telling her friends I'm weird...
Mr. Fenster, I think nerdiness is not an issue. Weirdness is. The two may sometimes overlap, but given how mainstream things like comic books and video games are now, they are definitely not one and the same.
I defer to your superior wisdom on this matter Mr Dancer
ps - worryingly, I often hear my wife telling her friends I'm weird...
So the long and the short of it is that we need to look to the leftier parts of the party for the next leader. There are so many candidates from the centre and the right who are way too short we can find value all over the place.
Around 100 refugees have arrived in Glasgow after a six-hour flight from Beirut with the Polish charter airline Enter Air, writes Auslan Cramb, Scottish Correspondent.
They arrived in torrential rain at around 3.31pm and will be met by a "welcome team" from five Scottish councils that will provide homes for them, including Edinburgh, Glasgow and North Ayrshire, but their arrival was deliberately low key.
Dave must believe he has the FULL support of his party on the Syria vote.
I think now that he has dropped the idea to remove Assad from power as one of the stated aims of the intervention there will be a lot less internal opposition within the government.
Yes supporting a tyrant and war criminal who is willing to gas his own people is a really good idea.
It is just the same policy we have always followed.
Indeed. We turned a blind eye to Saddam's evil in the mid-80s because he was fighting our new enemy, Iran. It's fairly easy to make a connection between the Iran - Iraq war and Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and the first gulf war. That led to the second gulf war.
If we hadn't supported Saddam in the mid-80s, much of this mess might have been avoided.
Now, I'm not saying that Iran is ISIS - they're in no way comparable, even back then. But supporting someone we know is doing evil because he is fighting our enemy is a dangerous and rocky road to travel down.
Unfortunately our politicians will always vote with their pockets in mind not the best outcomes.
The SNP at Westminster, and the ones in the overpriced council offices in Edinburgh too?
Around 100 refugees have arrived in Glasgow after a six-hour flight from Beirut with the Polish charter airline Enter Air, writes Auslan Cramb, Scottish Correspondent.
They arrived in torrential rain at around 3.31pm and will be met by a "welcome team" from five Scottish councils that will provide homes for them, including Edinburgh, Glasgow and North Ayrshire, but their arrival was deliberately low key.
Given how underpopulated Scotland is its probably the best destination for all our Syrian refugees.
Jeez. Imagine the worst that Syria has to offer, bred with MalcolmG.
Its likely that these would be the more decent ones. I agree the blinkered nationalism of the Mg types may well be a turn off for people who might have had a bellyful of nationalsim.
However Scotlands population has declined over the years and so it would make sense for Scotland to welcome all these refugees, although the aim would be to return them in the long run. I am also suggesting that UK govt money should go with it, I would not want the SNP to have to fund it all. Heaven forbid.
WE fund UK so why not, ps you are almost as big a loser as watney red barrel
If Benn wants to be leader, he ought to resign and challenge Corbyn in about 9 minutes, just in time for the 6pm news.
Stop the War is de facto the entryist organisation attempting to take over the Labour Party. This is all part of Corbyn's ambition, so no surprise he is going to a fund raiser. Its up to labour... if they do nothing he will succeed.
If Benn wants to be leader, he ought to resign and challenge Corbyn in about 9 minutes, just in time for the 6pm news.
Even IDS lasted two years there will be no move pre 2017
Labour will be finished by then. The heartland Labour vote is already deserting.
But Corbyn popularity is sweeping the nation (or some such BS on twitter/ BBC). To be fair though, he isn't down a Brown-ian level of polling (yet).
Haha.
As an example of how far down the Swanee the Corbynistas have gone, one particularly deluded Facebook mate with whom I have had detailed and long winded arguments has today quoted Hermann Goering. Without irony. To support his position in opposing attacks on Daesh.
You need to get some new Facebook friends :-) I am very Smithson-ite with the ban hammer on my social media.
So the long and the short of it is that we need to look to the leftier parts of the party for the next leader. There are so many candidates from the centre and the right who are way too short we can find value all over the place.
Logic which leads inexorably to ... Diane Abbott!
[For the avoidance of doubt, this is not a betting tip!]
the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron
Roger delivers MiliD the kiss of death...
Cooper all the way for me. I know politics is a matter of opinion but I think Cooper is the blindingly obvious choice. She's female, the Tories are weak on women voters. She's safe; she's clever; she's reasonable-sounding; she's experienced, and she's not tainted by being part of Corbyn's, erm, unusual (destined for utter destruction) leadership.
I think if Labour made her leader next week and she contested the 2020 GE, she'd make Labour at least the biggest party and would likely win a majority.
And I base that on no science whatsoever.
Err... we are talking about Yvette Cooper here, aren't we? That ghastly, shouty woman, who tried to ram through the House Seller's Pack legislation? A serial trougher who ripped off the taxpayer for every penny she could get. Experienced in government she maybe but that only exposed her complete absence of empathy with ordinary voters and her total unsuitedness for high office. For goodness sake is she couldn't even persuade members of her own party what chance would she have with the voters who Labour needs to win over?
Yep, same Cooper - along with all the baggage above. I think she'd give Labour a far more pronounced chance of winning.
Don't forget Cameron is a posh, Eton-educated toff who was sent away to boarding school when he was six, who worked for Norman Lamont and once served on the Home Affairs committee as a back-bencher sympathetic to legalising drugs. None of those are boxes you'd tick as your perfect PM, but he has been - in my view - a pretty good one.
@hopisen: @theobertram@DavidMills73 Does LOTO still get protection? Was wondering as I liked idea of officer asking JC what his guidelines were!
If he carries on the way he is going, he will start to make May look popular among that demographic. I guess at least today he has come to the conclusion that perhaps only arming the security personnel with a feather duster and "a dummies guide to mediation with a suicide bomber" might not be the best idea.
Around 100 refugees have arrived in Glasgow after a six-hour flight from Beirut with the Polish charter airline Enter Air, writes Auslan Cramb, Scottish Correspondent.
They arrived in torrential rain at around 3.31pm and will be met by a "welcome team" from five Scottish councils that will provide homes for them, including Edinburgh, Glasgow and North Ayrshire, but their arrival was deliberately low key.
Given how underpopulated Scotland is its probably the best destination for all our Syrian refugees.
Jeez. Imagine the worst that Syria has to offer, bred with MalcolmG.
Its likely that these would be the more decent ones. I agree the blinkered nationalism of the Mg types may well be a turn off for people who might have had a bellyful of nationalsim.
However Scotlands population has declined over the years and so it would make sense for Scotland to welcome all these refugees, although the aim would be to return them in the long run. I am also suggesting that UK govt money should go with it, I would not want the SNP to have to fund it all. Heaven forbid.
WE fund UK so why not, ps you are almost as big a loser as watney red barrel
Source please. And no, Dair and his magic calculator do not count.
the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron
Roger delivers MiliD the kiss of death...
Cooper all the way for me. I know politics is a matter of opinion but I think Cooper is the blindingly obvious choice. She's female, the Tories are weak on women voters. She's safe; she's clever; she's reasonable-sounding; she's experienced, and she's not tainted by being part of Corbyn's, erm, unusual (destined for utter destruction) leadership.
I think if Labour made her leader next week and she contested the 2020 GE, she'd make Labour at least the biggest party and would likely win a majority.
And I base that on no science whatsoever.
Err... we are talking about Yvette Cooper here, aren't we? That ghastly, shouty woman, who tried to ram through the House Seller's Pack legislation? A serial trougher who ripped off the taxpayer for every penny she could get. Experienced in government she maybe but that only exposed her complete absence of empathy with ordinary voters and her total unsuitedness for high office. For goodness sake is she couldn't even persuade members of her own party what chance would she have with the voters who Labour needs to win over?
Yep, same Cooper - along with all the baggage above. I think she'd give Labour a far more pronounced chance of winning.
....
Having my cat as leader would give Labour a better chance of winning than Corbyn.
Around 100 refugees have arrived in Glasgow after a six-hour flight from Beirut with the Polish charter airline Enter Air, writes Auslan Cramb, Scottish Correspondent.
They arrived in torrential rain at around 3.31pm and will be met by a "welcome team" from five Scottish councils that will provide homes for them, including Edinburgh, Glasgow and North Ayrshire, but their arrival was deliberately low key.
Given how underpopulated Scotland is its probably the best destination for all our Syrian refugees.
Jeez. Imagine the worst that Syria has to offer, bred with MalcolmG.
Its likely that these would be the more decent ones. I agree the blinkered nationalism of the Mg types may well be a turn off for people who might have had a bellyful of nationalsim.
However Scotlands population has declined over the years and so it would make sense for Scotland to welcome all these refugees, although the aim would be to return them in the long run. I am also suggesting that UK govt money should go with it, I would not want the SNP to have to fund it all. Heaven forbid.
WE fund UK so why not, ps you are almost as big a loser as watney red barrel
Source please. And no, Dair and his magic calculator do not count.
the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron
Roger delivers MiliD the kiss of death...
Cooper all the way for me. I know politics is a matter of opinion but I think Cooper is the blindingly obvious choice. She's female, the Tories are weak on women voters. She's safe; she's clever; she's reasonable-sounding; she's experienced, and she's not tainted by being part of Corbyn's, erm, unusual (destined for utter destruction) leadership.
I think if Labour made her leader next week and she contested the 2020 GE, she'd make Labour at least the biggest party and would likely win a majority.
And I base that on no science whatsoever.
Err... we are talking about Yvette Cooper here, aren't we? That ghastly, shouty woman, who tried to ram through the House Seller's Pack legislation? A serial trougher who ripped off the taxpayer for every penny she could get. Experienced in government she maybe but that only exposed her complete absence of empathy with ordinary voters and her total unsuitedness for high office. For goodness sake is she couldn't even persuade members of her own party what chance would she have with the voters who Labour needs to win over?
Yep, same Cooper - along with all the baggage above. I think she'd give Labour a far more pronounced chance of winning.
....
Having my cat as leader would give Labour a better chance of winning than Corbyn.
Even as ridiculous as that sounds, I wouldn't disagree with it!
the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron
Roger delivers MiliD the kiss of death...
Cooper all the way for me. I know politics is a matter of opinion but I think Cooper is the blindingly obvious choice. She's female, the Tories are weak on women voters. She's safe; she's clever; she's reasonable-sounding; she's experienced, and she's not tainted by being part of Corbyn's, erm, unusual (destined for utter destruction) leadership.
I think if Labour made her leader next week and she contested the 2020 GE, she'd make Labour at least the biggest party and would likely win a majority.
And I base that on no science whatsoever.
Err... we are talking about Yvette Cooper here, aren't we? That ghastly, shouty woman, who tried to ram through the House Seller's Pack legislation? A serial trougher who ripped off the taxpayer for every penny she could get. Experienced in government she maybe but that only exposed her complete absence of empathy with ordinary voters and her total unsuitedness for high office. For goodness sake is she couldn't even persuade members of her own party what chance would she have with the voters who Labour needs to win over?
Yep, same Cooper - along with all the baggage above. I think she'd give Labour a far more pronounced chance of winning.
....
Having my cat as leader would give Labour a better chance of winning than Corbyn.
Around 100 refugees have arrived in Glasgow after a six-hour flight from Beirut with the Polish charter airline Enter Air, writes Auslan Cramb, Scottish Correspondent.
They arrived in torrential rain at around 3.31pm and will be met by a "welcome team" from five Scottish councils that will provide homes for them, including Edinburgh, Glasgow and North Ayrshire, but their arrival was deliberately low key.
Given how underpopulated Scotland is its probably the best destination for all our Syrian refugees.
Jeez. Imagine the worst that Syria has to offer, bred with MalcolmG.
Its likely that these would be the more decent ones. I agree the blinkered nationalism of the Mg types may well be a turn off for people who might have had a bellyful of nationalsim.
However Scotlands population has declined over the years and so it would make sense for Scotland to welcome all these refugees, although the aim would be to return them in the long run. I am also suggesting that UK govt money should go with it, I would not want the SNP to have to fund it all. Heaven forbid.
WE fund UK so why not, ps you are almost as big a loser as watney red barrel
Ah bless.... Unfortunately for your ambitions Scotland does not fund the UK.
Right now this is what some of my Corbynite sparring partners are saying on another forum:
"We can agree that Corbyn is struggling to control the PLP, but that doesn't disprove the idea that they need controlling. We can agree that he sometimes leaves himself open to quote-mining, and to that extend is not "media-savvy", while also agreeing that the media has been closing ranks on him and pushing an agenda that's not rooted in facts. We can see the looming electoral forecast, while being resolute about it being worth enduring, if the result is to be a serious, sustained challenge by the Official Opposition to the very edifice on which the current neoliberal consensus has been built. Basically, it's highly likely... that the 2020 election will be won by a neoliberal party. In those circumstances, I'd far, far rather have the Labour party working away, trying to wrest control of the Overton Window to set up change in the zeitgeist over the next decade to facilitate a serious run in 2025, than see it sell its very heart and soul like a cheap trollop in the hope of winning the 2020 election with a Tory manifesto."
" 'I like Jezza but the PLP really are right to give him heaps of shit about his response to this terrorist attack, especially in the days of the aftermath, we get that you're anti-war Jeremy but the country aren't all peace lovers, and are feeling vulnerable and scared right now and his response has been incredibly weak, he really really REALLY needs to work on this or we're absolutely dead in the water'
Even if he's actually right? Gah, I hate that about politics. Actually being knowledgeable and intelligent isn't good; it's telling the public what they want to hear even when it's clearly wrong."
Around 100 refugees have arrived in Glasgow after a six-hour flight from Beirut with the Polish charter airline Enter Air, writes Auslan Cramb, Scottish Correspondent.
They arrived in torrential rain at around 3.31pm and will be met by a "welcome team" from five Scottish councils that will provide homes for them, including Edinburgh, Glasgow and North Ayrshire, but their arrival was deliberately low key.
Given how underpopulated Scotland is its probably the best destination for all our Syrian refugees.
Jeez. Imagine the worst that Syria has to offer, bred with MalcolmG.
Its likely that these would be the more decent ones. I agree the blinkered nationalism of the Mg types may well be a turn off for people who might have had a bellyful of nationalsim.
However Scotlands population has declined over the years and so it would make sense for Scotland to welcome all these refugees, although the aim would be to return them in the long run. I am also suggesting that UK govt money should go with it, I would not want the SNP to have to fund it all. Heaven forbid.
WE fund UK so why not, ps you are almost as big a loser as watney red barrel
Ah bless.... Unfortunately for your ambitions Scotland does not fund the UK.
Right now this is what some of my Corbynite sparring partners are saying on another forum:
"We can agree that Corbyn is struggling to control the PLP, but that doesn't disprove the idea that they need controlling. We can agree that he sometimes leaves himself open to quote-mining, and to that extend is not "media-savvy", while also agreeing that the media has been closing ranks on him and pushing an agenda that's not rooted in facts. We can see the looming electoral forecast, while being resolute about it being worth enduring, if the result is to be a serious, sustained challenge by the Official Opposition to the very edifice on which the current neoliberal consensus has been built. Basically, it's highly likely... that the 2020 election will be won by a neoliberal party. In those circumstances, I'd far, far rather have the Labour party working away, trying to wrest control of the Overton Window to set up change in the zeitgeist over the next decade to facilitate a serious run in 2025, than see it sell its very heart and soul like a cheap trollop in the hope of winning the 2020 election with a Tory manifesto."
" 'I like Jezza but the PLP really are right to give him heaps of shit about his response to this terrorist attack, especially in the days of the aftermath, we get that you're anti-war Jeremy but the country aren't all peace lovers, and are feeling vulnerable and scared right now and his response has been incredibly weak, he really really REALLY needs to work on this or we're absolutely dead in the water'
Even if he's actually right? Gah, I hate that about politics. Actually being knowledgeable and intelligent isn't good; it's telling the public what they want to hear even when it's clearly wrong."
No. 3 sums up the level of self awareness that the Trots really have. They make EdM and his hapless EdStone advisers look like the coauthors of a hugely successful Know Thyself self help book.
I won't be backing David Miliband. That banana boat has sailed.
Much depends on the circumstances of the change of leader.
If Jeremy Corbyn steps down of his own accord, we can take it that he is content that he will be succeeded by someone sufficiently ideologically sound. So we need to look among the candidates of the firm left.
If Jeremy Corbyn steps down after being forced out, there is in all probability no practical way to force a coronation. Any candidate who can muster 35 MPs will force a vote and it is highly unlikely that a second candidate can be completely excluded*. There is no evidence that the electorate has moved to the right since Jeremy Corbyn got elected so we should look to the most left wing candidate who can muster 35 MPs. Views will vary on who that may be.
So the long and the short of it is that we need to look to the leftier parts of the party for the next leader. There are so many candidates from the centre and the right who are way too short we can find value all over the place.
*unless a leftish candidate acceptable to the firm left is chosen for the coronation and acceded to by the right of the party. This seems improbable.
The only plausible coronation candidate is Hilary Benn, his surname alone makes him leftwing royalty
We have heard nothing in regards to who the security guard was at the Stade de France at ultimately saved 100s if not 1000s of lives. I fear that it might not be a happy ending.
Around 100 refugees have arrived in Glasgow after a six-hour flight from Beirut with the Polish charter airline Enter Air, writes Auslan Cramb, Scottish Correspondent.
They arrived in torrential rain at around 3.31pm and will be met by a "welcome team" from five Scottish councils that will provide homes for them, including Edinburgh, Glasgow and North Ayrshire, but their arrival was deliberately low key.
If Benn wants to be leader, he ought to resign and challenge Corbyn in about 9 minutes, just in time for the 6pm news.
Even IDS lasted two years there will be no move pre 2017
Labour will be finished by then. The heartland Labour vote is already deserting.
Labour is on 33% with ICM today, that is hardly finished even with the Tories also up. Labour is basically treading water but one or two dismal by elections and the knives will start to sharpen
Labour are already a laughing-stock, although the joke is looking rather sick. How desperate would they look if they attempt bring back another Miliband?
History repeats itself. First as tragedy then as farce.
May the Farce be with you!
(Anecdata - amongst my birthday prezzies at the weekend, I got not one but TWO tickets to see Star Wars over Christmas! Consecutive screenings!)
I have a 12 year old desperate to go - any idea of the certificate it will be given?
One of my older son's tells me it could be 15???
I doubt it will be a 15 - Revenge of the Sith (2005) was a 12A.
Amusing Anecdata: My mum took me to see the original Star Wars when I was only two!!! Naturally, we had to leave the cinema when I got scared shitless
And don't forget the guy from Mali in the Kosher supermarket in January. He saved 8 hostages by hiding them in the store room. "Mon coeur a parle. Et j'ai reagi." (My heart spoke and I acted). An ordinary guy and a hero.
If Benn wants to be leader, he ought to resign and challenge Corbyn in about 9 minutes, just in time for the 6pm news.
Even IDS lasted two years there will be no move pre 2017
Labour will be finished by then. The heartland Labour vote is already deserting.
Labour is on 33% with ICM today, that is hardly finished even with the Tories also up. Labour is basically treading water but one or two dismal by elections and the knives will start to sharpen
Indeed. And if their vote holds up, confirming the current rating is not ephemereal or illuionary, then either Corbyn and co have calld it right or the floor of Labour support was already reached with Ed M, and it is high.
"'If you don't like this country, why the f*** did you come here?' Muslim man's impassioned speech decrying ISIS for trying to impose Sharia law on the West takes social media by storm
Muslim man launches into three-minute verbal attack on violent extremists He said that Islam 'teaches you to be tolerant and to respect other faiths' During the tirade, he asks 'do you have the right to kill? F*** you, you don't'"
We have heard nothing in regards to who the security guard was at the Stade de France at ultimately saved 100s if not 1000s of lives. I fear that it might not be a happy ending.
Comments
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf_-x9quxWU
Or will the sound be switched off again?
https://t.co/gG3NjcBCRb
Its likely that these would be the more decent ones. I agree the blinkered nationalism of the Mg types may well be a turn off for people who might have had a bellyful of nationalsim.
However Scotlands population has declined over the years and so it would make sense for Scotland to welcome all these refugees, although the aim would be to return them in the long run. I am also suggesting that UK govt money should go with it, I would not want the SNP to have to fund it all. Heaven forbid.
Westminster voting intention:
CON: 39% (+1)
LAB: 33% (-1)
UKIP: 12% (+1)
LDEM: 7% (-)
GRN: 3% (-)
(via ICM / 13 - 15 Nov)
The most obvious is Benn. A desirable name for Corbyn supporters. Seems both new yet experienced which is appealing and he's got gravitas.
Cooper because she's by far the best woman and if Labour now consider they were a bit hasty she'd be the best of the previous rejects.
Ummunna is shiny and new which might be more appealing to the wider public than lefty Party members but after being stung by Corbyn he could well be the antidote.
And finally Miliband D. By a distance the most articulate and competent. Could well be the man for these uncertain times and the only one who would be guaranteed to better Cameron which after being bitten twice might be just what's needed. I just don't know whether he wants it.
Labour have been getting walloped left, right and centre in local by-elections with regularly diminishing vote share. They are mid-high 20's.
a) Get nominated by the PLP
b) Win support in the unions and affiliates
c) Win support in the CLPs
No evidence that DM and Chuka can delier (b) and (c). Cooper and Benn maybe, but it will depend on how Corbyn goes.
The notion that the admittedly catchall phrase 'shoot to kill' specifically means shooting unarmed 'suspects' as the article claims is grossly prejudicial to the discussion. Probably because it comes from years of the left abusing our security services with the phrase.
The real issue under discussion which Corbyn should have known and been quite clear about, is in fact about the police and security forces directly assaulting any such terrorists without the usual concern about preserving their lives and giving priority to arresting them.
In a semi vacant rambling response Corbyn gave every indication of quite simply not wanting to engage with the real issue at stake.
I think if Labour made her leader next week and she contested the 2020 GE, she'd make Labour at least the biggest party and would likely win a majority.
And I base that on no science whatsoever.
Of course the smuggler stories were not all fiction and Hurstpierpoint was, it would seem, quite a major distribution point. There is a local legend of a smugglers' tunnel that runs from the cellar of the New Inn in the High street out to the Danny House estate a mile or so to the South East.
The cellar of the pub dates back at least to the 14th century and we know that behind what is now the end of one of the barrel vaults there is a void which maybe the tunnel. However,when the last but one landlord wanted to break through and find out the costs of complying with all the regs was prohibitively expensive. So I guess we will always just have a local legend.
There has been no publication of any report into the pre election polling results yet I take it?
"What would you say Milliband D, greatest accomplishment was? I genuinely can't think of anything."
His political achievement was being Foreign Secretary. But if you'd heard him speak over the last couple of years he's been consistently more impressive than he ever was in government.
Mr. Mortimer, Miliband wasn't even the chap who had to jump first. It was cowardice on a magnificent scale.
@IanDunt: He lost precious political credibility over a policy which doesn't exist and then U-turned on it in less than 24 hours. Madness.
"No evidence that DM and Chuka can delier (b) and (c). Cooper and Benn maybe, but it will depend on how Corbyn goes. "
Can you think of anyone else?
However optimistic any of us might have been I now can't see Corbyn going the distance let alone having a chance of winning.
Purnell deserves to be welcomed back with open arms as the only man willing to back his judgement and ditch Brown before the results came in from the locals that night.
Much depends on the circumstances of the change of leader.
If Jeremy Corbyn steps down of his own accord, we can take it that he is content that he will be succeeded by someone sufficiently ideologically sound. So we need to look among the candidates of the firm left.
If Jeremy Corbyn steps down after being forced out, there is in all probability no practical way to force a coronation. Any candidate who can muster 35 MPs will force a vote and it is highly unlikely that a second candidate can be completely excluded*. There is no evidence that the electorate has moved to the right since Jeremy Corbyn got elected so we should look to the most left wing candidate who can muster 35 MPs. Views will vary on who that may be.
So the long and the short of it is that we need to look to the leftier parts of the party for the next leader. There are so many candidates from the centre and the right who are way too short we can find value all over the place.
*unless a leftish candidate acceptable to the firm left is chosen for the coronation and acceded to by the right of the party. This seems improbable.
Warning: very, very not safe for work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glxh9ZgP7kc
Without giving too much away, I attended my first ever political meeting the other day. I was invited as a non-aligned member of the community to a Labour meeting, and it was good. Poorly attended, but the council/community leaders there spoke impressively. But Corbyn was the enormous elephant in the room. The un-minuted attitude was 'okay-he's-a-ridiculous-choice-of-leader-but-we'll-still-have-elections-to-fight-after-he's-gone'. It must be pretty soul destroying being a Labour canvasser in a working-class Labour area like mine. It was said that Corbyn is going down well among keyboard warriors but not on doorsteps. I stifled a LOL at that.
With Corbyn in charge it is plain-sailing for the Tories. Get rid and put an Yvette Cooper in and it will change virtually overnight.
As an example of how far down the Swanee the Corbynistas have gone, one particularly deluded Facebook mate with whom I have had detailed and long winded arguments has today quoted Hermann Goering. Without irony. To support his position in opposing attacks on Daesh.
Con 36 Lab 38
Edited extra bit: must be off.
ps - worryingly, I often hear my wife telling her friends I'm weird...
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/10/02/next-labour-leader-lets-do-the-time-warp-again/
My creepy stalker appears, loser.
However Scotlands population has declined over the years and so it would make sense for Scotland to welcome all these refugees, although the aim would be to return them in the long run. I am also suggesting that UK govt money should go with it, I would not want the SNP to have to fund it all. Heaven forbid.
WE fund UK so why not, ps you are almost as big a loser as watney red barrel
[For the avoidance of doubt, this is not a betting tip!]
Don't forget Cameron is a posh, Eton-educated toff who was sent away to boarding school when he was six, who worked for Norman Lamont and once served on the Home Affairs committee as a back-bencher sympathetic to legalising drugs. None of those are boxes you'd tick as your perfect PM, but he has been - in my view - a pretty good one.
Source please. And no, Dair and his magic calculator do not count.
Cross-border Sunday trading.
And on that bombshell....
Ah bless.... Unfortunately for your ambitions Scotland does not fund the UK.
"We can agree that Corbyn is struggling to control the PLP, but that doesn't disprove the idea that they need controlling. We can agree that he sometimes leaves himself open to quote-mining, and to that extend is not "media-savvy", while also agreeing that the media has been closing ranks on him and pushing an agenda that's not rooted in facts. We can see the looming electoral forecast, while being resolute about it being worth enduring, if the result is to be a serious, sustained challenge by the Official Opposition to the very edifice on which the current neoliberal consensus has been built. Basically, it's highly likely... that the 2020 election will be won by a neoliberal party. In those circumstances, I'd far, far rather have the Labour party working away, trying to wrest control of the Overton Window to set up change in the zeitgeist over the next decade to facilitate a serious run in 2025, than see it sell its very heart and soul like a cheap trollop in the hope of winning the 2020 election with a Tory manifesto."
" 'I like Jezza but the PLP really are right to give him heaps of shit about his response to this terrorist attack, especially in the days of the aftermath, we get that you're anti-war Jeremy but the country aren't all peace lovers, and are feeling vulnerable and scared right now and his response has been incredibly weak, he really really REALLY needs to work on this or we're absolutely dead in the water'
Even if he's actually right? Gah, I hate that about politics. Actually being knowledgeable and intelligent isn't good; it's telling the public what they want to hear even when it's clearly wrong."
Certainly not with Brent Crude at $44 a barrel.
Not sure crowd sourcing potential locations for your suicide attack is the best of idea..Doodle Poll my detention site at the link below.
Hush, you cock
Muslim man launches into three-minute verbal attack on violent extremists
He said that Islam 'teaches you to be tolerant and to respect other faiths'
During the tirade, he asks 'do you have the right to kill? F*** you, you don't'"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3321962/If-don-t-like-country-f-did-come-Impassioned-speech-Muslim-decries-ISIS-terrorists-trying-impose-Sharia-law-West.html