Sometimes Tory Britain can seem a very brutal place. A girl is sent to jail for 8 years for wearing a prosthetic penis because the sentencing guidelines prohibit the use of common sense or compassion.
Sometimes Tory Britain can seem a very brutal place. A girl is sent to jail for 8 years for wearing a prosthetic penis because the sentencing guidelines prohibit the use of common sense or compassion.
A rapist was sent to jail for 8 years for raping a woman under false pretences and you're outraged?
Surprisingly, some people are happy for sexual abuse to go on where the perpetrator is 'talent'. They think women should just put up with it and shut up.
There're words for people who think like that, and they're not suitable for this blog.
Sometimes Tory Britain can seem a very brutal place. A girl is sent to jail for 8 years for wearing a prosthetic penis because the sentencing guidelines prohibit the use of common sense or compassion.
The sentence is completely out of all whack, but it has nothing to do with "Tory Britain". T'would be exactly the same if Labour was in charge.
On balance this should help us with inflation, but be bad news as far as government revenues are concerned. Not terribly good news for an independent Scotland. Correct my maths but 44 is a lot less than 150.
Good news overall for the UK, terrible news for Canada and some other places. Would have been an unmitigated disaster for an independent Scotland.
A disaster like that currently seen in Norway with waves of Norwegian refugees flooding into Sweden to escape the bankrupt, broken economy of their homeland?
Doesn't Norway have a pretty large piggy bank?
So basically rUK owes Scotland around £700bn.
Or Scotland owes rUK £2.678 trillion.
No one owes anyone anything. The UK has been one political entity one country since 1707. All the country's taxes have been collected and disbursed to all regions since then as seen as necessary.
Sometimes Tory Britain can seem a very brutal place. A girl is sent to jail for 8 years for wearing a prosthetic penis because the sentencing guidelines prohibit the use of common sense or compassion.
Completely off topic: earlier someone posted a Hopi Sen article about Labour saying that the civil war was being postponed. And yet I was speaking to a well-known Labour person today and they were (a) utterly despondent; and (b) facing some pretty unpleasant abuse and moves to oust / not support by the Corbynistas. And this is someone who would be regarded by most people as most certainly not a Blairite.
So maybe there is more going on under the surface.
Sometimes Tory Britain can seem a very brutal place. A girl is sent to jail for 8 years for wearing a prosthetic penis because the sentencing guidelines prohibit the use of common sense or compassion.
Let me understand you Roger, because I often struggle to make sense of your pronouncements.
Had plucky young Ed Miliband won in May, this person wouldn't have gone to jail? Or wouldn't have been prosecuted? Or some other complete non sequitur? Do you think this was a politically motivated prosecution?
Police have reopened 350 cases that may have been botched by a senior forensic officer - after he lied about his qualifications to get the job. Stephen Beattie, 51, worked for Staffordshire Police as a scenes of crime officer between 1996 and 2002 before taking up a role with Cleveland Police.
The bungling cop told both forces he was a level two fire investigator and a highly experienced officer, but a major police watchdog inquiry found he had no academic qualifications in arson investigation and completely exaggerated his levels of expertise.
In the early 80's the Thatcher government enacted a law whereby 16 year olds could no longer claim dole. Kids who were thrown out of home made their way to London. With unemployment at an all time high they were soon sleeping rough or selling their bodies. You could see the rent boys in every station and arcade in London. The aftermath is still to be seen now.......
Has anyone thought of the effect of denying EU workers benefits until they've been here for 4 years? What happens when we have a sudden downturn in employment? I had a premonition of this today when a man came up to me with a piece of paper which said 'I'M SPANISH. I CAN'T AFFORD FOOD. PLEASE HELP ME'.
Sweden has reinstated border controls in a bid to gain control over the massive influx of migrants arriving in the country. Prime Minister Stefan Lofven insisted: "This is not a fence. We need to make sure that we have control ... We have to make sure we know who is coming to Sweden"...
Police began carrying out identification checks on passengers travelling on trains crossing the bridge over the Oresund strait from Denmark, an AFP correspondent reported.
Without knowing anything about the case other than what is reported in the linked BBC article I have to say that it seems remarkable to me that she has been convicted and that the Crown has been able to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. It is a truly unlikely story.
But, once the Jury had convicted, I don't think that the Judge has done anything seriously out of line with what one might expect for the series of crimes she has been convicted of.
What "Tory Britain" has to do with this is something of a mystery and likely to remain so.
Sometimes Tory Britain can seem a very brutal place. A girl is sent to jail for 8 years for wearing a prosthetic penis because the sentencing guidelines prohibit the use of common sense or compassion.
Let me understand you Roger, because I often struggle to make sense of your pronouncements.
Had plucky young Ed Miliband won in May, this person wouldn't have gone to jail? Or wouldn't have been prosecuted? Or some other complete non sequitur? Do you think this was a politically motivated prosecution?
I think what Roger must mean is that the sentencing guidelines under which this sentence was passed must be the Tories' fault because they are now in power, even if the guidelines have been in place for years and may even have been introduced by Labour.
Of course, this could just be shortened to: "Everything bad which happens in Britain is the fault of the Tories (regardless of whether they are in power or not)."
Who can say? I rather think Roger, being no doubt a talented creative fellow, is a fan of the Irish saying - "Why let the facts stand in the way of a good story."
In the early 80's the Thatcher government enacted a law whereby 16 year olds could no longer claim dole. Kids who were thrown out of home made their way to London. With unemployment at an all time high they were soon sleeping rough or selling their bodies. You could see the rent boys in every station and arcade in London. The aftermath is still to be seen now.......
Has anyone thought of the effect of denying EU workers benefits until they've been here for 4 years? What happens when we have a sudden downturn in employment? I had a premonition of this today when a man came up to me with a piece of paper which said 'I'M SPANISH. I CAN'T AFFORD FOOD. PLEASE HELP ME'.
Doesn't Spain provide benefits for people who need food?
Sweden has reinstated border controls in a bid to gain control over the massive influx of migrants arriving in the country. Prime Minister Stefan Lofven insisted: "This is not a fence. We need to make sure that we have control ... We have to make sure we know who is coming to Sweden"...
Police began carrying out identification checks on passengers travelling on trains crossing the bridge over the Oresund strait from Denmark, an AFP correspondent reported.
In the early 80's the Thatcher government enacted a law whereby 16 year olds could no longer claim dole. Kids who were thrown out of home made their way to London. With unemployment at an all time high they were soon sleeping rough or selling their bodies. You could see the rent boys in every station and arcade in London. The aftermath is still to be seen now.......
Has anyone thought of the effect of denying EU workers benefits until they've been here for 4 years? What happens when we have a sudden downturn in employment? I had a premonition of this today when a man came up to me with a piece of paper which said 'I'M SPANISH. I CAN'T AFFORD FOOD. PLEASE HELP ME'.
Without knowing anything about the case other than what is reported in the linked BBC article I have to say that it seems remarkable to me that she has been convicted and that the Crown has been able to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. It is a truly unlikely story.
But, once the Jury had convicted, I don't think that the Judge has done anything seriously out of line with what one might expect for the series of crimes she has been convicted of.
What "Tory Britain" has to do with this is something of a mystery and likely to remain so.
It's the reverse of that bizarre M. Butterfly story of a few years ago:
In today's Britain it seems that — post Savile — if you're found guilty of any sort of sexual crime you get locked away for a long time, but if you commit manslaughter or death by dangerous driving you quite often get a lenient sentence. That can't be right.
Sometimes Tory Britain can seem a very brutal place. A girl is sent to jail for 8 years for wearing a prosthetic penis because the sentencing guidelines prohibit the use of common sense or compassion.
Let me understand you Roger, because I often struggle to make sense of your pronouncements.
Had plucky young Ed Miliband won in May, this person wouldn't have gone to jail? Or wouldn't have been prosecuted? Or some other complete non sequitur? Do you think this was a politically motivated prosecution?
I think what Roger must mean is that the sentencing guidelines under which this sentence was passed must be the Tories' fault because they are now in power, even if the guidelines have been in place for years and may even have been introduced by Labour.
Of course, this could just be shortened to: "Everything bad which happens in Britain is the fault of the Tories (regardless of whether they are in power or not)."
Who can say? I rather think Roger, being no doubt a talented creative fellow, is a fan of the Irish saying - "Why let the facts stand in the way of a good story."
I struggle with the mindset, in honesty. Bad things happen all the time, under governments of all stripes. I have no issue with saying the Tories were responsible for the poll tax, or that, historically, a lot of shire Tories were flat out homophobic. However, I draw the line at ascribing criminality to a particular administration. Oh well, nowt so queer as folk, as they say.
In the early 80's the Thatcher government enacted a law whereby 16 year olds could no longer claim dole. Kids who were thrown out of home made their way to London. With unemployment at an all time high they were soon sleeping rough or selling their bodies. You could see the rent boys in every station and arcade in London. The aftermath is still to be seen now.......
Has anyone thought of the effect of denying EU workers benefits until they've been here for 4 years? What happens when we have a sudden downturn in employment? I had a premonition of this today when a man came up to me with a piece of paper which said 'I'M SPANISH. I CAN'T AFFORD FOOD. PLEASE HELP ME'.
Not sure that's the warmest of body language between them even then.
I also noted that of course Oxford East is solid Labour, so when the PM cc'd his letter to "Oxfordshire MPs" he presumably cc'd it to the Labour chappie too and not just his fellow Oxon Tories?
Knowing that the letter was, presumably, going to a Labour MP who could have had a field day with it, it's an even more bizarre correspondence. (And it seems it was the Tory Council leader who put it in the public domain, not the Labour chap)
Oxford CC, where councillors voted themselves a very generous 19% increase in their allowances whilst cutting services. Says it all.
Alas, Mr. Taffys I fear that the fat cats at the top taking fecking huge salaries/allowances whilst cutting services to the plebs does say it all. However, what can be done about it? Who will stand up for the little people who are being shafted from every direction?
Exactly why do all councillors need allowances. I've no problem with idea of recoupment of salaries for time lost, and with the proper recompense of expenses necessarily incurred but some people seem to be making a living out of being a councillor.
Councillor allowances are in place of individual claims for loss of work time, general office expenses and travel expenses. The average County Councillor seems to spend about two days a week on the task and receives an allowance of little over £10,000 pa.
You can understand why, being under appreciated for what they do, fewer and fewer people want to be councillors nowadays.
Two days a week for £10k plus subsistence and expenses. That is about £100 per day clear. Not a bad rate of pay for what a councillor has to do.
Mr Lama and I seem to have started a hare! Let's be clear. I have no objection to genuine "broken time". I have no objection to genuine expenses. I can understand that being a "senior" councillor in a big or even a medium authority is, effectively, a full-time job, as is being an MP. And I do understand, as a former candidate, who had to think carefully about might happen if he'd been elected, albeit a long time ago, that there is a significant time commiment. Even then I'm still concerned at the "salaries" being paid.
In the early 80's the Thatcher government enacted a law whereby 16 year olds could no longer claim dole. Kids who were thrown out of home made their way to London. With unemployment at an all time high they were soon sleeping rough or selling their bodies. You could see the rent boys in every station and arcade in London. The aftermath is still to be seen now.......
Has anyone thought of the effect of denying EU workers benefits until they've been here for 4 years? What happens when we have a sudden downturn in employment? I had a premonition of this today when a man came up to me with a piece of paper which said 'I'M SPANISH. I CAN'T AFFORD FOOD. PLEASE HELP ME'.
Doesn't Spain provide benefits for people who need food?
Isn't Roger in France, in the South of France? What help does France provide?
''What better word to describe her and her immigration policy. ''
Germany's immigration policy should be Germany's business. Except it isn't.
Germany is constructing an immigration timebomb for the UK, over which we have no say whatsoever.
It is Germany that is pushing leave into the game.
I think I may have posted this previously but it bears repeating. A large part of the motivation (rallied by France) for the Common Market was to prevent another Europe wide war by emasculating German influence (partitioning Germany having started the process). Germany's present economic and political domination of the EU has taken us to precisely the position the rest of Europe was seeking to avoid. I'm not suggesting that Europe is about to go to war. Germany has got to where it feels it belongs without force of arms.
De Gaulle did not want the UK to join the Common Market despite the fact it would help to balance France against German dominance.
De Gaulle always cared more about his own position than anything else. In any case the UK didn't want to play originally and I'm not sure what point you're making.
De Gaulle vetoed UK entry twice. If the UK did not want to join why did the proposal come up which the French vetoed.
@aljwhite: Some rather extraordinary evidence has been submitted to MPs by a former Kids Company employee https://t.co/7spAGxNMhi
Why have criminal charges not been laid? It is getting extremely irritating. Its almost like there was one rule for right on trendy charity sorts and one for the rest of us.
Throwing money away as has been alleged is not, per se, evidence of a crime. And there is a criminal investigation going on into alleged child abuse. The Great She-Fatso was interviewed by the police a few days ago.
But I agree with your general irritation. There seems to have been absolutely no regard for any rules at all and what went on - financially and in every other way - needs to be looked at forensically and those who were meant to be in charge made to accept responsibility, real responsibility - and sooner rather than later.
Hmm... It is a breach of a fiduciary obligation, a failure to provide a proper accounting and a failure to comply with the rules that any charity has which, at the lengths we are getting to here, seems to me to amount to a conspiracy to defraud. I accept that tying that down to single individuals, particularly when the record keeping seems to have been a joke, may be technically difficult but wow, something needs to be done here.
At the least I would expect all of the Trustees to be disbarred from equivalent roles in future
In today's Britain it seems that — post Savile — if you're found guilty of any sort of sexual crime you get locked away for a long time, but if you commit manslaughter or death by dangerous driving you quite often get a lenient sentence. That can't be right.
There's always been something odd about the consequences of poor or bad driving. A sort of "there but for" seems to apply.
Hurst Llama: I do read the German press. Germans have sharper distinctions than we do - we tend to rub along with a vague grumpy acceptance of whatever is happening. But Pegida is as limited a phenomenon as UKIP, except that they're mainly active in the eastern states and their sentiments are less popular than UKIP - AfD is as good a barometer as any, and a year or demos has produced support in the 5-10% range, up by 2 or 3 points over a year ago. They aren't any more typical of the average German than the most vocal anti-austerity demonstrators reflect an average family in Britain. And if we'd taken a few hundred thousand refugees in a few months, we'd probably see a few demos too.
Many people here just don't get Merkel or Germany - they can't understand why she's still popular and not being swept away by a wave of indignation. There are worse things than our vague grumpy acceptance, as Cyclefree has pointed out and Britain works pretty well on that basis. But we shouldn't elevate it to a supreme virtue either.
If the trend continues Merkel will be polling under 30% soon. I think the poll you referred to the other day was the only one that didn't follow that pattern.
Merkel is a great leader. I will put her on par with Willy Brandt.
In the early 80's the Thatcher government enacted a law whereby 16 year olds could no longer claim dole. Kids who were thrown out of home made their way to London. With unemployment at an all time high they were soon sleeping rough or selling their bodies. You could see the rent boys in every station and arcade in London. The aftermath is still to be seen now.......
Has anyone thought of the effect of denying EU workers benefits until they've been here for 4 years? What happens when we have a sudden downturn in employment? I had a premonition of this today when a man came up to me with a piece of paper which said 'I'M SPANISH. I CAN'T AFFORD FOOD. PLEASE HELP ME'.
The clue is in the word "worker". They're here to work. They left their countries to come to a job in the UK. If there is a downturn in employment and there are no longer the jobs, then maybe they should be considering going somewhere where there are jobs or back to their home country.
You seem to think that the very act of landing on British soil should entitle someone to stay here for ever regardless of the cost to others.
@aljwhite: Some rather extraordinary evidence has been submitted to MPs by a former Kids Company employee https://t.co/7spAGxNMhi
Why have criminal charges not been laid? It is getting extremely irritating. Its almost like there was one rule for right on trendy charity sorts and one for the rest of us.
The Tories were falling over themselves to fund her.
In the early 80's the Thatcher government enacted a law whereby 16 year olds could no longer claim dole. Kids who were thrown out of home made their way to London. With unemployment at an all time high they were soon sleeping rough or selling their bodies. You could see the rent boys in every station and arcade in London. The aftermath is still to be seen now.......
Has anyone thought of the effect of denying EU workers benefits until they've been here for 4 years? What happens when we have a sudden downturn in employment? I had a premonition of this today when a man came up to me with a piece of paper which said 'I'M SPANISH. I CAN'T AFFORD FOOD. PLEASE HELP ME'.
In today's Britain it seems that — post Savile — if you're found guilty of any sort of sexual crime you get locked away for a long time, but if you commit manslaughter or death by dangerous driving you quite often get a lenient sentence. That can't be right.
There's always been something odd about the consequences of poor or bad driving. A sort of "there but for" seems to apply.
Looks deliberate to me in this case. 'Words exchanged' - looks like manslaughter at the least beyond reasonable doubt. "Wanted to let him know I was there" he'll probably admit in due course.
"What "Tory Britain" has to do with this is something of a mystery and likely to remain so."
I heard the comment that though the sentence seemed extreme the judge had no control because of sentencing guidelines which I assumed to be relatively new. Knowing Chris Graylings boasts to conference of increasing tariffs I assumed this was his handiwork. If I'm wrong I apologize (and would ask for other periodic inaccuracies to be taken into consideration)
As far as Councillors and allowances are concerned, it's the small clique of Cabinet members around the Council leader who rake off the most. This seems to be the case in authorities as politically diverse as Newham and Surrey. The average voting fodder backbench Councillor doesn't get that much.
Whether having the likes of David Hodge or Sir Robin Wales is healthy or not for local democracy I don't know but the current system effectively makes being a local representative almost impossible for very many people. Local democracy atrophies as a result. I wouldn't have a system of unpaid Councillors as that would be
Stodge
How much do you think the cabinet member responsible for Children's Services across a County or metropolitan area should receive in allowances per annum?
How much of their time do you think this role should take up?
How many councillors do you think want this task?
David - it's a fair question or series of questions. Surrey is a business with a Budget of some £1.6 billion and 20,000 or so employees. Running departments like Childrens' or Adults is a serious business and the supervision of the Officers running that part of the business needs to be serious as well. Whether a single, probably less than fully qualified friend of the Council leader is that person is open to question.
And yet everybody wants accountability - if the Service screws up, does the Director carry the can or the Cabinet Member or both ? At what point does the Member-Officer relationship become too comfortable ?
I don't know the answer - we are seeing the de facto merger of authorities in the guise of collaboration to achieve savings especially in back office functions but the main items of Council expenditure aren't the bricks and mortar as Cameron seems to believe but the Services themselves for which the demand is rising remorselessly.
@aljwhite: Some rather extraordinary evidence has been submitted to MPs by a former Kids Company employee https://t.co/7spAGxNMhi
Why have criminal charges not been laid? It is getting extremely irritating. Its almost like there was one rule for right on trendy charity sorts and one for the rest of us.
The Tories were falling over themselves to fund her.
Sometimes Tory Britain can seem a very brutal place. A girl is sent to jail for 8 years for wearing a prosthetic penis because the sentencing guidelines prohibit the use of common sense or compassion.
She deceived her partner, who wasn't therefore able to give informed consent.
Do you have an ounce of compassion for the victim of this crime?
Or is she just some girl who can be dismissed in your sick and twisted worldview?
It explains nothing, to be frank. In addition to the sexual assault, there is the gross breach of trust which has occurred, an aggravating factor, and the consequent harm to the victim, which the report does not go into in any detail.
But in any case the report does not support your contention that this is the fault of "Tory Britain". Nowhere does it suggest that the sentencing guidelines were introduced by the Tories. Unless you know different, of course, in which case you can doubtless produce the details.
I'm rather more sceptical than you about how far Fini's party has evolved. In the same way, I'm not sure I entirely believe it when Marine Le Pen says that she has move the FN away from the party it was under her father.
Otherwise largely agree with what you have written there. My main difference with you is that, even if we're not as different as all that from other European countries, that does not necessarily seem to me to be a sufficient basis to join forces in an explicitly political pan-European structure of the type apparently envisaged by some of the EU political class.
I'll defer to you on Fini - I have little direct knowledge. And I think you're right on the FN, though over time a repeatedly stated belief (rejecting racism, for instance) by the leadership will change the party, by attracting people who agree with it and dismaying members who don't. (In the same way, Labour membership became much more centrist under Blair, although when the problems of office dragged him down it damaged the whole idea of Labour centrism.)
And of course you're right that being a bit similar to someone doesn't mean we should instantly join them in political union. And perhaps there's a difference in underlying assumptions lurking there. Instinctively I think of Europe as being one country regrettably divided into umpteen fragments, so my default assumption is that mergers are good unless they impose such strains as to discredit them - e.g. obviously we don't have a basis to form a joint union with Belarus.
So I think we should be members of the political association covering most of Europe unless there's a compelling reason not to be. If we don't like aspects of it we should try to change them, but walking away isn't practical or desirable, any more than leaving the UN or ceasing to take an interest in global affairs.
An alternative view is that Britain is distinctively different, at risk of contamination, and should only share sovereignty to the extent absolutely necessary for practical reasons. On that basis clearly Leave is a much more tempting proposition.
Europe is no more divided by language, religion and culture than, say, India.
@aljwhite: Some rather extraordinary evidence has been submitted to MPs by a former Kids Company employee https://t.co/7spAGxNMhi
Why have criminal charges not been laid? It is getting extremely irritating. Its almost like there was one rule for right on trendy charity sorts and one for the rest of us.
The Tories were falling over themselves to fund her.
So were Labour ...
All the stories reported took place during Tory watch. You can't beat the "Labour did it" drum forever. Labour has not been in power for 5 years !
In the early 80's the Thatcher government enacted a law whereby 16 year olds could no longer claim dole. Kids who were thrown out of home made their way to London. With unemployment at an all time high they were soon sleeping rough or selling their bodies. You could see the rent boys in every station and arcade in London. The aftermath is still to be seen now.......
Has anyone thought of the effect of denying EU workers benefits until they've been here for 4 years? What happens when we have a sudden downturn in employment? I had a premonition of this today when a man came up to me with a piece of paper which said 'I'M SPANISH. I CAN'T AFFORD FOOD. PLEASE HELP ME'.
The clue is in the word "worker". They're here to work. They left their countries to come to a job in the UK. If there is a downturn in employment and there are no longer the jobs, then maybe they should be considering going somewhere where there are jobs or back to their home country.
You seem to think that the very act of landing on British soil should entitle someone to stay here for ever regardless of the cost to others.
Many years ago, when I was applying for a job in Germany, I wouldn't have dreamt of going there without keeping a sufficient financial reserve to get me back home in an emergency.
"What "Tory Britain" has to do with this is something of a mystery and likely to remain so."
I heard the comment that though the sentence seemed extreme the judge had no control because of sentencing guidelines which I assumed to be relatively new. Knowing Chris Graylings boasts to conference of increasing tariffs I assumed this was his handiwork. If I'm wrong I apologize (and would ask for other periodic inaccuracies to be taken into consideration)
My later post was written before I saw this.
Best not make assumptions, especially in relation to reports of court cases, which are invariably (in my experience) incomplete and often inaccurate.
Judges have had a lot of their discretion removed but that has often been (a) because of some really weird decisions by judges which have caused outrage; and (b) to provide a bit more certainty to defendants.
Grayling may have been an arse as Lord Chancellor but not everything that happens in the courts is down to him. And sexual assaults have, in the past, been treated far too leniently so I am glad that sentences generally have been increased in this area
I'm rather more sceptical than you about how far Fini's party has evolved. In the same way, I'm not sure I entirely believe it when Marine Le Pen says that she has move the FN away from the party it was under her father.
Otherwise largely agree with what you have written there. My main difference with you is that, even if we're not as different as all that from other European countries, that does not necessarily seem to me to be a sufficient basis to join forces in an explicitly political pan-European structure of the type apparently envisaged by some of the EU political class.
I'll defer to you on Fini - I have little direct knowledge. And I think you're right on the FN, though over time a repeatedly stated belief (rejecting racism, for instance) by the leadership will change the party, by attracting people who agree with it and dismaying members who don't. (In the same way, Labour membership became much more centrist under Blair, although when the problems of office dragged him down it damaged the whole idea of Labour centrism.)
And of course you're right that being a bit similar to someone doesn't mean we should instantly join them in political union. And perhaps there's a difference in underlying assumptions lurking there. Instinctively I think of Europe as being one country regrettably divided into umpteen fragments, so my default assumption is that mergers are good unless they impose such strains as to discredit them - e.g. obviously we don't have a basis to form a joint union with Belarus.
So I think we should be members of the political association covering most of Europe unless there's a compelling reason not to be. If we don't like aspects of it we should try to change them, but walking away isn't practical or desirable, any more than leaving the UN or ceasing to take an interest in global affairs.
An alternative view is that Britain is distinctively different, at risk of contamination, and should only share sovereignty to the extent absolutely necessary for practical reasons. On that basis clearly Leave is a much more tempting proposition.
Europe is no more divided by language, religion and culture than, say, India.
How lucky for India, then, that they had an enlighten Power to unify the country and introduce the basic principles of law and good governance
By how much would they have to be reduced in order to dissolve your concern?
TBH Mr IA, I don't know. In this context I'm (shudder) like a Daily Mail reader. I'm sure something's wrong and "Something Should be Done About It"
But being asked to think about, and answer a sensible question is different!
What would I have wanted/needed if, all those years ago,I'd been elected? Hmm. I'll have to think!
Thank you.
That's the only right answer, but - I think - it takes courage to admit to it.
Because we're talking hearts not heads. Council X pays its sixty members say £40k each and people say "that's far too much" so the Council cuts the number of its members in half and still pays the remaining ones £40k each. The editor of the local rag then defends his readers' right to be irrational - after all, it's the wrong cut, isn't it?
Or something of the sort. When I was (briefly, a long time ago) an elected councillor I never missed an opportunity to say to my constituents that part of the price of service delivery was delivering the same services to people they absolutely loathed.
I'm rather more sceptical than you about how far Fini's party has evolved. In the same way, I'm not sure I entirely believe it when Marine Le Pen says that she has move the FN away from the party it was under her father.
Otherwise largely agree with what you have written there. My main difference with you is that, even if we're not as different as all that from other European countries, that does not necessarily seem to me to be a sufficient basis to join forces in an explicitly political pan-European structure of the type apparently envisaged by some of the EU political class.
I'll defer to you on Fini - I have little direct knowledge. And I think you're right on the FN, though over time a repeatedly stated belief (rejecting racism, for instance) by the leadership will change the party, by attracting people who agree with it and dismaying members who don't. (In the same way, Labour membership became much more centrist under Blair, although when the problems of office dragged him down it damaged the whole idea of Labour centrism.)
And of course you're right that being a bit similar to someone doesn't mean we should instantly join them in political union. And perhaps there's a difference in underlying assumptions lurking there. Instinctively I think of Europe as being one country regrettably divided into umpteen fragments, so my default assumption is that mergers are good unless they impose such strains as to discredit them - e.g. obviously we don't have a basis to form a joint union with Belarus.
So I think we should be members of the political association covering most of Europe unless there's a compelling reason not to be. If we don't like aspects of it we should try to change them, but walking away isn't practical or desirable, any more than leaving the UN or ceasing to take an interest in global affairs.
An alternative view is that Britain is distinctively different, at risk of contamination, and should only share sovereignty to the extent absolutely necessary for practical reasons. On that basis clearly Leave is a much more tempting proposition.
Europe is no more divided by language, religion and culture than, say, India.
How lucky for India, then, that they had an enlighten Power to unify the country and introduce the basic principles of law and good governance
The same "power" could also help Europe do the same rather than constantly moaning !
I'm rather more sceptical than you about how far Fini's party has evolved. In the same way, I'm not sure I entirely believe it when Marine Le Pen says that she has move the FN away from the party it was under her father.
Otherwise largely agree with what you have written there. My main difference with you is that, even if we're not as different as all that from other European countries, that does not necessarily seem to me to be a sufficient basis to join forces in an explicitly political pan-European structure of the type apparently envisaged by some of the EU political class.
I'll defer to you on Fini - I have little direct knowledge. And I think you're right on the FN, though over time a repeatedly stated belief (rejecting racism, for instance) by the leadership will change the party, by attracting people who agree with it and dismaying members who don't. (In the same way, Labour membership became much more centrist under Blair, although when the problems of office dragged him down it damaged the whole idea of Labour centrism.)
And of course you're right that being a bit similar to someone doesn't mean we should instantly join them in political union. And perhaps there's a difference in underlying assumptions lurking there. Instinctively I think of Europe as being one country regrettably divided into umpteen fragments, so my default assumption is that mergers are good unless they impose such strains as to discredit them - e.g. obviously we don't have a basis to form a joint union with Belarus.
So I think we should be members of the political association covering most of Europe unless there's a compelling reason not to be. If we don't like aspects of it we should try to change them, but walking away isn't practical or desirable, any more than leaving the UN or ceasing to take an interest in global affairs.
An alternative view is that Britain is distinctively different, at risk of contamination, and should only share sovereignty to the extent absolutely necessary for practical reasons. On that basis clearly Leave is a much more tempting proposition.
Europe is no more divided by language, religion and culture than, say, India.
Which was unified through force of arms and an iron fist. And then had the most problematic parts hived off again.
I assume you are not suggesting a similar process for Europe?
Not sure that's the warmest of body language between them even then.
I also noted that of course Oxford East is solid Labour, so when the PM cc'd his letter to "Oxfordshire MPs" he presumably cc'd it to the Labour chappie too and not just his fellow Oxon Tories?
Knowing that the letter was, presumably, going to a Labour MP who could have had a field day with it, it's an even more bizarre correspondence. (And it seems it was the Tory Council leader who put it in the public domain, not the Labour chap)
Oxford CC, where councillors voted themselves a very generous 19% increase in their allowances whilst cutting services. Says it all.
Alas, Mr. Taffys I fear that the fat cats at the top taking fecking huge salaries/allowances whilst cutting services to the plebs does say it all. However, what can be done about it? Who will stand up for the little people who are being shafted from every direction?
Something of an exageration to claim that councillors are fat cats taking huge salaries/allowances.
I wonder if Mr HurstLlama is aware of councillors' actual salaries and allowances and their work load, especially at County Council level?
Each Oxfordshire County Councillor receives a basic £10,000 allowance. The Leader enjoys an additional special responsibility allowance of £29,000 making a total of around £40,000 for this gentleman. These are the amounts as of December 2014.
I don't know when the whopping 19% increase took place....but it doesn't matter - it is/was indefensible.
In my own Borough Council in Surrey, we froze all allowances for three years and then increased them for the last two by less than inflation at 1% and 1.5% as recommended by the independent panel.
Unintended travel allowances on the railways .... ?
I'm rather more sceptical than you about how far Fini's party has evolved. In the same way, I'm not sure I entirely believe it when Marine Le Pen says that she has move the FN away from the party it was under her father.
Otherwise largely agree with what you have written there. My main difference with you is that, even if we're not as different as all that from other European countries, that does not necessarily seem to me to be a sufficient basis to join forces in an explicitly political pan-European structure of the type apparently envisaged by some of the EU political class.
I'll defer to you on Fini - I have little direct knowledge. And I think you're right on the FN, though over time a repeatedly stated belief (rejecting racism, for instance) by the leadership will change the party, by attracting people who agree with it and dismaying members who don't. (In the same way, Labour membership became much more centrist under Blair, although when the problems of office dragged him down it damaged the whole idea of Labour centrism.)
And of course you're right that being a bit similar to someone doesn't mean we should instantly join them in political union. And perhaps there's a difference in underlying assumptions lurking there. Instinctively I think of Europe as being one country regrettably divided into umpteen fragments, so my default assumption is that mergers are good unless they impose such strains as to discredit them - e.g. obviously we don't have a basis to form a joint union with Belarus.
So I think we should be members of the political association covering most of Europe unless there's a compelling reason not to be. If we don't like aspects of it we should try to change them, but walking away isn't practical or desirable, any more than leaving the UN or ceasing to take an interest in global affairs.
An alternative view is that Britain is distinctively different, at risk of contamination, and should only share sovereignty to the extent absolutely necessary for practical reasons. On that basis clearly Leave is a much more tempting proposition.
Europe is no more divided by language, religion and culture than, say, India.
How lucky for India, then, that they had an enlighten Power to unify the country and introduce the basic principles of law and good governance
The same "power" could also help Europe do the same rather than constantly moaning !
If they were to accept a Representative of said Power in each country providing "guidance" on how to run it, then I'm sure we could come to an amicable arrangement
Sometimes Tory Britain can seem a very brutal place. A girl is sent to jail for 8 years for wearing a prosthetic penis because the sentencing guidelines prohibit the use of common sense or compassion.
Roger allow me to help you understand the situation.
Person A offered Person B a cup of tea. Person B didn't want a cup of tea. Person B wanted a cup of coffee. Person A fooled Person B into thinking that a cup of tea was a cup of coffee and gave it to Person B who drank it.
I'm rather more sceptical than you about how far Fini's party has evolved. In the same way, I'm not sure I entirely believe it when Marine Le Pen says that she has move the FN away from the party it was under her father.
Otherwise largely agree with what you have written there. My main difference with you is that, even if we're not as different as all that from other European countries, that does not necessarily seem to me to be a sufficient basis to join forces in an explicitly political pan-European structure of the type apparently envisaged by some of the EU political class.
I'll defer to you on Fini - I have little direct knowledge. And I think you're right on the FN, though over time a repeatedly stated belief (rejecting racism, for instance) by the leadership will change the party, by attracting people who agree with it and dismaying members who don't. (In the same way, Labour membership became much more centrist under Blair, although when the problems of office dragged him down it damaged the whole idea of Labour centrism.)
And of course you're right that being a bit similar to someone doesn't mean we should instantly join them in political union. And perhaps there's a difference in underlying assumptions lurking there. Instinctively I think of Europe as being one country regrettably divided into umpteen fragments, so my default assumption is that mergers are good unless they impose such strains as to discredit them - e.g. obviously we don't have a basis to form a joint union with Belarus.
So I think we should be members of the political association covering most of Europe unless there's a compelling reason not to be. If we don't like aspects of it we should try to change them, but walking away isn't practical or desirable, any more than leaving the UN or ceasing to take an interest in global affairs.
An alternative view is that Britain is distinctively different, at risk of contamination, and should only share sovereignty to the extent absolutely necessary for practical reasons. On that basis clearly Leave is a much more tempting proposition.
Europe is no more divided by language, religion and culture than, say, India.
Which was unified through force of arms and an iron fist. And then had the most problematic parts hived off again.
I assume you are not suggesting a similar process for Europe?
After a brutal civil war - and with various subsequent wars between the partitioned parts.
"What "Tory Britain" has to do with this is something of a mystery and likely to remain so."
I heard the comment that though the sentence seemed extreme the judge had no control because of sentencing guidelines which I assumed to be relatively new. Knowing Chris Graylings boasts to conference of increasing tariffs I assumed this was his handiwork. If I'm wrong I apologize (and would ask for other periodic inaccuracies to be taken into consideration)
Roger's default position.
Someone begging for reasons unknown - Tory's fault.
Justifiable sentencing for serious sexual assault and breach of trust - Tory's fault.
Whatever next?
(Nice touch to have a little quip after the 'apology' BTW. Hardly sincere).
I'm rather more sceptical than you about how far Fini's party has evolved. In the same way, I'm not sure I entirely believe it when Marine Le Pen says that she has move the FN away from the party it was under her father.
Otherwise largely agree with what you have written there. My main difference with you is that, even if we're not as different as all that from other European countries, that does not necessarily seem to me to be a sufficient basis to join forces in an explicitly political pan-European structure of the type apparently envisaged by some of the EU political class.
I'll defer to you on Fini - I have little direct knowledge. And I think you're right on the FN, though over time a repeatedly stated belief (rejecting racism, for instance) by the leadership will change the party, by attracting people who agree with it and dismaying members who don't. (In the same way, Labour membership became much more centrist under Blair, although when the problems of office dragged him down it damaged the whole idea of Labour centrism.)
And of course you're right that being a bit similar to someone doesn't mean we should instantly join them in political union. And perhaps there's a difference in underlying assumptions lurking there. Instinctively I think of Europe as being one country regrettably divided into umpteen fragments, so my default assumption is that mergers are good unless they impose such strains as to discredit them - e.g. obviously we don't have a basis to form a joint union with Belarus.
So I think we should be members of the political association covering most of Europe unless there's a compelling reason not to be. If we don't like aspects of it we should try to change them, but walking away isn't practical or desirable, any more than leaving the UN or ceasing to take an interest in global affairs.
An alternative view is that Britain is distinctively different, at risk of contamination, and should only share sovereignty to the extent absolutely necessary for practical reasons. On that basis clearly Leave is a much more tempting proposition.
Europe is no more divided by language, religion and culture than, say, India.
How lucky for India, then, that they had an enlighten Power to unify the country and introduce the basic principles of law and good governance
The same "power" could also help Europe do the same rather than constantly moaning !
I'm all in favour of extending the common law to the rest of Europe. And indeed the English language and the English criminal justice system.
How likely on a scale of 1 to 10 do you think it is that the other states will agree to this?
Sometimes Tory Britain can seem a very brutal place. A girl is sent to jail for 8 years for wearing a prosthetic penis because the sentencing guidelines prohibit the use of common sense or compassion.
Roger allow me to help you understand the situation.
Person A offered Person B a cup of tea. Person B didn't want a cup of tea. Person B wanted a cup of coffee. Person A fooled Person B into thinking that a cup of tea was a cup of coffee and gave it to Person B who drank it.
Does that bring you any closer to clarity?
Person B asks for tea, and allows themselves to be blindfolded. Person B drinks "Tea" 10 times, before removing blindfold and finding out it is coffee !
@aljwhite: Some rather extraordinary evidence has been submitted to MPs by a former Kids Company employee https://t.co/7spAGxNMhi
Why have criminal charges not been laid? It is getting extremely irritating. Its almost like there was one rule for right on trendy charity sorts and one for the rest of us.
Throwing money away as has been alleged is not, per se, evidence of a crime. And there is a criminal investigation going on into alleged child abuse. The Great She-Fatso was interviewed by the police a few days ago.
But I agree with your general irritation. There seems to have been absolutely no regard for any rules at all and what went on - financially and in every other way - needs to be looked at forensically and those who were meant to be in charge made to accept responsibility, real responsibility - and sooner rather than later.
Hmm... It is a breach of a fiduciary obligation, a failure to provide a proper accounting and a failure to comply with the rules that any charity has which, at the lengths we are getting to here, seems to me to amount to a conspiracy to defraud. I accept that tying that down to single individuals, particularly when the record keeping seems to have been a joke, may be technically difficult but wow, something needs to be done here.
Oh I agree. But getting all the evidence needed and against specific individuals will need a lot of hard, detailed, forensic work. The charity went down in July so it's been barely 4 months. That's not a lot of time to get a case together for a criminal prosecution. I don't even know whether anyone is actually looking. What, if anything, are the Charity Commission doing? The SFO aren't involved, to my knowledge. The liquidators of the charity - or whoever is responsible? What, if anything, is the government doing to get the £3 mio back? Then there is HMRC who may have been deprived of tax/NI if the reports of people being employed and paid in cash are true. There are a lot of agencies who could potentially be involved so some co-ordination is needed.
My guess is that no-one is doing anything very much or is waiting to see what happens with the criminal investigation and the Parliamentary report and whatever may be going on behind the scenes.
We may have a case of Everyone thinking that Something is being done by Someone Else resulting in Nothing being done by Anyone.
I'm sure we'll get a 'lessons have been learned' report at some point. Apart from that it will be the square root of sod all as per usual.
Sometimes Tory Britain can seem a very brutal place. A girl is sent to jail for 8 years for wearing a prosthetic penis because the sentencing guidelines prohibit the use of common sense or compassion.
Roger allow me to help you understand the situation.
Person A offered Person B a cup of tea. Person B didn't want a cup of tea. Person B wanted a cup of coffee. Person A fooled Person B into thinking that a cup of tea was a cup of coffee and gave it to Person B who drank it.
"European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker chided leaders for their slow take-up of previously agreed plans to spread the refugee burden more equally.
Mr Juncker said he was “not happy at all” with the implementation of the EU’s flagship relocation policy, in which 160,000 people will be shared out among member states. So far, only 147 have been relocated. “If we continue at this rate, we will there by [the year] 2101,” Mr Juncker complained."
I can't see that particular volley causing the governments in central and eastern Europe to fret unduly.
Meanwhile, Turkey is to be paid to be enlisted into the drive to reduce migrant numbers.
I'm rather more sceptical than you about how far Fini's party has evolved. In the same way, I'm not sure I entirely believe it when Marine Le Pen says that she has move the FN away from the party it was under her father.
Otherwise largely agree with what you have written there. My main difference with you is that, even if we're not as different as all that from other European countries, that does not necessarily seem to me to be a sufficient basis to join forces in an explicitly political pan-European structure of the type apparently envisaged by some of the EU political class.
I'll defer to you on Fini - I have little direct knowledge. And I think you're right on the FN, though over time a repeatedly stated belief (rejecting racism, for instance) by the leadership will change the party, by attracting people who agree with it and dismaying members who don't. (In the same way, Labour membership became much more centrist under Blair, although when the problems of office dragged him down it damaged the whole idea of Labour centrism.)
And of course you're right that being a bit similar to someone doesn't mean we should instantly join them in political union. And perhaps there's a difference in underlying assumptions lurking there. Instinctively I think of Europe as being one country regrettably divided into umpteen fragments, so my default assumption is that mergers are good unless they impose such strains as to discredit them - e.g. obviously we don't have a basis to form a joint union with Belarus.
So I think we should be members of the political association covering most of Europe unless there's a compelling reason not to be. If we don't like aspects of it we should try to change them, but walking away isn't practical or desirable, any more than leaving the UN or ceasing to take an interest in global affairs.
An alternative view is that Britain is distinctively different, at risk of contamination, and should only share sovereignty to the extent absolutely necessary for practical reasons. On that basis clearly Leave is a much more tempting proposition.
Europe is no more divided by language, religion and culture than, say, India.
Which was unified through force of arms and an iron fist. And then had the most problematic parts hived off again.
I assume you are not suggesting a similar process for Europe?
Not Europe, but it does seem to me that suggestions of solving the migrant problem by improving the standards of the originating countries actually imply something perilously akin to colonialism.
I'm rather more sceptical than you about how far Fini's party has evolved. In the same way, I'm not sure I entirely believe it when Marine Le Pen says that she has move the FN away from the party it was under her father.
Otherwise largely agree with what you have written there. My main difference with you is that, even if we're not as different as all that from other European countries, that does not necessarily seem to me to be a sufficient basis to join forces in an explicitly political pan-European structure of the type apparently envisaged by some of the EU political class.
I'll defer to you on Fini - I have little direct knowledge. And I think you're right on the FN, though over time a repeatedly stated belief (rejecting racism, for instance) by the leadership will change the party, by attracting people who agree with it and dismaying members who don't. (In the same way, Labour membership became much more centrist under Blair, although when the problems of office dragged him down it damaged the whole idea of Labour centrism.)
And of course you're right that being a bit similar to someone doesn't mean we should instantly join them in political union. And perhaps there's a difference in underlying assumptions lurking there. Instinctively I think of Europe as being one country regrettably divided into umpteen fragments, so my default assumption is that mergers are good unless they impose such strains as to discredit them - e.g. obviously we don't have a basis to form a joint union with Belarus.
So I think we should be members of the political association covering most of Europe unless there's a compelling reason not to be. If we don't like aspects of it we should try to change them, but walking away isn't practical or desirable, any more than leaving the UN or ceasing to take an interest in global affairs.
An alternative view is that Britain is distinctively different, at risk of contamination, and should only share sovereignty to the extent absolutely necessary for practical reasons. On that basis clearly Leave is a much more tempting proposition.
Europe is no more divided by language, religion and culture than, say, India.
Which was unified through force of arms and an iron fist. And then had the most problematic parts hived off again.
I assume you are not suggesting a similar process for Europe?
After a brutal civil war - and with various subsequent wars between the partitioned parts.
Yep. I think it is reasonable to say that India is not an example I would like to see Europe follow.
Sometimes Tory Britain can seem a very brutal place. A girl is sent to jail for 8 years for wearing a prosthetic penis because the sentencing guidelines prohibit the use of common sense or compassion.
Roger allow me to help you understand the situation.
Person A offered Person B a cup of tea. Person B didn't want a cup of tea. Person B wanted a cup of coffee. Person A fooled Person B into thinking that a cup of tea was a cup of coffee and gave it to Person B who drank it.
Does that bring you any closer to clarity?
Not really I like tea and coffee but prefer Coke
Yes I realise that socialists like living the high life.
Sometimes Tory Britain can seem a very brutal place. A girl is sent to jail for 8 years for wearing a prosthetic penis because the sentencing guidelines prohibit the use of common sense or compassion.
Roger allow me to help you understand the situation.
Person A offered Person B a cup of tea. Person B didn't want a cup of tea. Person B wanted a cup of coffee. Person A fooled Person B into thinking that a cup of tea was a cup of coffee and gave it to Person B who drank it.
Does that bring you any closer to clarity?
Person B asks for tea, and allows themselves to be blindfolded. Person B drinks "Tea" 10 times, before removing blindfold and finding out it is coffee !
Sometimes Tory Britain can seem a very brutal place. A girl is sent to jail for 8 years for wearing a prosthetic penis because the sentencing guidelines prohibit the use of common sense or compassion.
Roger allow me to help you understand the situation.
Person A offered Person B a cup of tea. Person B didn't want a cup of tea. Person B wanted a cup of coffee. Person A fooled Person B into thinking that a cup of tea was a cup of coffee and gave it to Person B who drank it.
Sometimes Tory Britain can seem a very brutal place. A girl is sent to jail for 8 years for wearing a prosthetic penis because the sentencing guidelines prohibit the use of common sense or compassion.
Roger allow me to help you understand the situation.
Person A offered Person B a cup of tea. Person B didn't want a cup of tea. Person B wanted a cup of coffee. Person A fooled Person B into thinking that a cup of tea was a cup of coffee and gave it to Person B who drank it.
Does that bring you any closer to clarity?
Not really I like tea and coffee but prefer Coke
Yes I realise that socialists like living the high life.
Coke has now been replaced with Coke Zero unfortunately
Probably something similar, though it depends on the day/mood/what the person is like.
But there was an old beggar lady who used to hang round the main bus stop near where my mother lived. And my mother used on a fairly regular basis to buy her actual food i.e. from one of the fast food joints, for which the lady was tremendously grateful (which always rather embarrassed my mother because she didn't like being thought of as doing anything particularly special).
This was some time ago and my mother was a great believer in offering practical help rather than money and tended to do so through charities like the Salvation Army and Crisis etc.
I have also seen people stop and actually talk to rough sleepers which seems to me to be very worthwhile, treating them as human beings and giving them some recognition rather than just as recipients of money, however welcome. Being ignored/invisible must be almost as demeaning and horrible as being poor/homeless.
But it's not easy, when one is in a rush etc etc. We can just do what we can.
The same "power" could also help Europe do the same rather than constantly moaning !
So you are suggesting we should invade Europe, lay siege to their cities, execute any trouble makers and then make them all learn English. Oh and then chop off Spain and Portugal and evict any Catholics from Northern Europe and make them walk to the newly formed Catholic country. After which we pull out and write letters to the Times about how ungrateful the newly independent Europeans are.
It's a thought I suppose but I am not sure the Germans would go for it.
In the early 80's the Thatcher government enacted a law whereby 16 year olds could no longer claim dole. Kids who were thrown out of home made their way to London. With unemployment at an all time high they were soon sleeping rough or selling their bodies. You could see the rent boys in every station and arcade in London. The aftermath is still to be seen now.......
Has anyone thought of the effect of denying EU workers benefits until they've been here for 4 years? What happens when we have a sudden downturn in employment? I had a premonition of this today when a man came up to me with a piece of paper which said 'I'M SPANISH. I CAN'T AFFORD FOOD. PLEASE HELP ME'.
Shocking that the EU has reduced a proud Spaniard to having to beg a wealthy Englishman for food. Horrid story.
I hope someone launches a petition against the absurdly harsh sentence handed out to Gayle Newland today. Eight years for pretending to be a man is ridiculous.
You have some very strange views about what is acceptable, with regard to one individual's behaviour toward another."
I'm beginning to think i do. A 25 year old girl deceives her female chum of the same age that she's a boy. Over a two year period they spend over a hundred affectionate hours together......
I was surprised the police even got involved. I know a couple of Northern circuit judges who would jail you for driving a bicycle without lights so the sentence is marginally less surprising.
I hope someone launches a petition against the absurdly harsh sentence handed out to Gayle Newland today. Eight years for pretending to be a man is ridiculous.
The sentence isn't for "pretending to be a man". It is for sexual assault.
I hope someone launches a petition against the absurdly harsh sentence handed out to Gayle Newland today. Eight years for pretending to be a man is ridiculous.
It is rape by deception. If a man climbed into a woman's bed and managed to pretend that he was her husband so she consented to intercourse 8 years would be the starting point but it would end up higher. I repeat the judge has to proceed on the conclusion of the Jury that this was a deliberate and complex deception over a long period of time. Only her own problems have stopped her from getting more.
And of course you're right that being a bit similar to someone doesn't mean we should instantly join them in political union. And perhaps there's a difference in underlying assumptions lurking there. Instinctively I think of Europe as being one country regrettably divided into umpteen fragments, so my default assumption is that mergers are good unless they impose such strains as to discredit them - e.g. obviously we don't have a basis to form a joint union with Belarus.
So I think we should be members of the political association covering most of Europe unless there's a compelling reason not to be. If we don't like aspects of it we should try to change them, but walking away isn't practical or desirable, any more than leaving the UN or ceasing to take an interest in global affairs.
An alternative view is that Britain is distinctively different, at risk of contamination, and should only share sovereignty to the extent absolutely necessary for practical reasons. On that basis clearly Leave is a much more tempting proposition.
Europe is no more divided by language, religion and culture than, say, India.
Which was unified through force of arms and an iron fist. And then had the most problematic parts hived off again.
I assume you are not suggesting a similar process for Europe?
After a brutal civil war - and with various subsequent wars between the partitioned parts.
Yep. I think it is reasonable to say that India is not an example I would like to see Europe follow.
Well, we have had an Indian example on European soil: Yugoslavia and the horrors of its break up.
Perhaps there might be a lesson there in what happens when you create an artificial construct from the top down which then falls apart once its original purpose/guiding spirit disappears.
As I recall it was Germany's rush to recognise Croatia which precipitated other parts to declare their own independence before the issues of how these multi-ethnic/multi-religious/multicultural societies were going to get along. And the fate of Sarajevo should be a lesson to all of us that just because a place/country is happily multicultural/open/tolerant does not mean that it stays that way forever, if undue strain/stresses are placed on it.
A lesson Germany - and, indeed, other countries - might usefully learn.
Simon Danczuk paid his now estranged wife 621 hours overtime while she worked in his office from 2010 to 2015 - the most any MP claimed for a partner!!
"European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker chided leaders for their slow take-up of previously agreed plans to spread the refugee burden more equally.
Mr Juncker said he was “not happy at all” with the implementation of the EU’s flagship relocation policy, in which 160,000 people will be shared out among member states. So far, only 147 have been relocated. “If we continue at this rate, we will there by [the year] 2101,” Mr Juncker complained."
I can't see that particular volley causing the governments in central and eastern Europe to fret unduly.
Meanwhile, Turkey is to be paid to be enlisted into the drive to reduce migrant numbers.
Nah they will have died of old age well before that.
I'm all in favour of extending the common law to the rest of Europe. And indeed the English language and the English criminal justice system.
How likely on a scale of 1 to 10 do you think it is that the other states will agree to this?
English is ALREADY an official language of the EU! That's why I'm claiming the non-Commonwealth EU members as part of my fantasy expanded "Commonwealth Plus"
Comments
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Because from your description it is hard to tell.
There're words for people who think like that, and they're not suitable for this blog.
We hate it (or many do) because it understands human hypocrisy perfectly, and has made a hugely successful and profitable business off the back of it.
So maybe there is more going on under the surface.
Just look at the News link http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/latest/index.html
And then there's the Wires and all the rest. It's a huge operation that puts the Telegraph's crap loading website to shame.
Just noticed there's no stacked comments and the 'show previous quotes' is back - blisss.
Had plucky young Ed Miliband won in May, this person wouldn't have gone to jail? Or wouldn't have been prosecuted? Or some other complete non sequitur? Do you think this was a politically motivated prosecution?
Many of the frothers are from the wider anglo sphere. Aussie, USA, Ex pat brit, you name it.
In the early 80's the Thatcher government enacted a law whereby 16 year olds could no longer claim dole. Kids who were thrown out of home made their way to London. With unemployment at an all time high they were soon sleeping rough or selling their bodies. You could see the rent boys in every station and arcade in London. The aftermath is still to be seen now.......
Has anyone thought of the effect of denying EU workers benefits until they've been here for 4 years? What happens when we have a sudden downturn in employment? I had a premonition of this today when a man came up to me with a piece of paper which said 'I'M SPANISH. I CAN'T AFFORD FOOD. PLEASE HELP ME'.
Daily Mail Australia
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/auhome/index.html
Mail Today (India)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/index.html
I am not sure how profitable the online operation is and I believe it is subsidised by the print version.
......er......they might stay in their countries of origin?
But, once the Jury had convicted, I don't think that the Judge has done anything seriously out of line with what one might expect for the series of crimes she has been convicted of.
What "Tory Britain" has to do with this is something of a mystery and likely to remain so.
Of course, this could just be shortened to: "Everything bad which happens in Britain is the fault of the Tories (regardless of whether they are in power or not)."
Who can say? I rather think Roger, being no doubt a talented creative fellow, is a fan of the Irish saying - "Why let the facts stand in the way of a good story."
(I bet you he wasn't Spanish).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Boursicot
I guess the heavy sentence is in large part reflecting the vulnerability of the victim.
A slightly more complete description which explains why I used the word 'brutal'
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/12/gayle-newland-sentenced-eight-years-prison-duping-friend-having-sex
Europe elects reckon Grillo's get out of EU lot are at a record high in the polls.
The eurocrats are telling Britain they can;t have a fraction of what voters in their own back yards are pressing for.
Even then I'm still concerned at the "salaries" being paid.
Of course, the Tories always wanted to join.
By how much would they have to be reduced in order to dissolve your concern?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/12/opinion/campaign-stops/gop-debate-doldrums.html?ref=opinion&_r=1
You seem to think that the very act of landing on British soil should entitle someone to stay here for ever regardless of the cost to others.
But being asked to think about, and answer a sensible question is different!
What would I have wanted/needed if, all those years ago,I'd been elected? Hmm. I'll have to think!
"What "Tory Britain" has to do with this is something of a mystery and likely to remain so."
I heard the comment that though the sentence seemed extreme the judge had no control because of sentencing guidelines which I assumed to be relatively new. Knowing Chris Graylings boasts to conference of increasing tariffs I assumed this was his handiwork. If I'm wrong I apologize (and would ask for other periodic inaccuracies to be taken into consideration)
It's significant as he had been voting regularly - he voted in all the key votes on tax credits and Individual Voter Registration.
And yet everybody wants accountability - if the Service screws up, does the Director carry the can or the Cabinet Member or both ? At what point does the Member-Officer relationship become too comfortable ?
I don't know the answer - we are seeing the de facto merger of authorities in the guise of collaboration to achieve savings especially in back office functions but the main items of Council expenditure aren't the bricks and mortar as Cameron seems to believe but the Services themselves for which the demand is rising remorselessly.
Do you have an ounce of compassion for the victim of this crime?
Or is she just some girl who can be dismissed in your sick and twisted worldview?
But in any case the report does not support your contention that this is the fault of "Tory Britain". Nowhere does it suggest that the sentencing guidelines were introduced by the Tories. Unless you know different, of course, in which case you can doubtless produce the details.
Oxford St
Best not make assumptions, especially in relation to reports of court cases, which are invariably (in my experience) incomplete and often inaccurate.
Judges have had a lot of their discretion removed but that has often been (a) because of some really weird decisions by judges which have caused outrage; and (b) to provide a bit more certainty to defendants.
Grayling may have been an arse as Lord Chancellor but not everything that happens in the courts is down to him. And sexual assaults have, in the past, been treated far too leniently so I am glad that sentences generally have been increased in this area
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/12/robots-threaten-low-paid-jobs-says-bank-of-england-chief-economist
That's the only right answer, but - I think - it takes courage to admit to it.
Because we're talking hearts not heads. Council X pays its sixty members say £40k each and people say "that's far too much" so the Council cuts the number of its members in half and still pays the remaining ones £40k each. The editor of the local rag then defends his readers' right to be irrational - after all, it's the wrong cut, isn't it?
Or something of the sort. When I was (briefly, a long time ago) an elected councillor I never missed an opportunity to say to my constituents that part of the price of service delivery was delivering the same services to people they absolutely loathed.
(Genuine question. And no obligation to answer, obviously.)
I assume you are not suggesting a similar process for Europe?
Person A offered Person B a cup of tea. Person B didn't want a cup of tea. Person B wanted a cup of coffee. Person A fooled Person B into thinking that a cup of tea was a cup of coffee and gave it to Person B who drank it.
Does that bring you any closer to clarity?
Someone begging for reasons unknown - Tory's fault.
Justifiable sentencing for serious sexual assault and breach of trust - Tory's fault.
Whatever next?
(Nice touch to have a little quip after the 'apology' BTW. Hardly sincere).
How likely on a scale of 1 to 10 do you think it is that the other states will agree to this?
Gave him £1. What else would you do?
Fault of the Tories. Clearly.
https://t.co/l4FspHhfh5
"European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker chided leaders for their slow take-up of previously agreed plans to spread the refugee burden more equally.
Mr Juncker said he was “not happy at all” with the implementation of the EU’s flagship relocation policy, in which 160,000 people will be shared out among member states. So far, only 147 have been relocated. “If we continue at this rate, we will there by [the year] 2101,” Mr Juncker complained."
I can't see that particular volley causing the governments in central and eastern Europe to fret unduly.
Meanwhile, Turkey is to be paid to be enlisted into the drive to reduce migrant numbers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_III_of_Sweden's_coffee_experiment
No coffee or tea for weeks!!
But there was an old beggar lady who used to hang round the main bus stop near where my mother lived. And my mother used on a fairly regular basis to buy her actual food i.e. from one of the fast food joints, for which the lady was tremendously grateful (which always rather embarrassed my mother because she didn't like being thought of as doing anything particularly special).
This was some time ago and my mother was a great believer in offering practical help rather than money and tended to do so through charities like the Salvation Army and Crisis etc.
I have also seen people stop and actually talk to rough sleepers which seems to me to be very worthwhile, treating them as human beings and giving them some recognition rather than just as recipients of money, however welcome. Being ignored/invisible must be almost as demeaning and horrible as being poor/homeless.
But it's not easy, when one is in a rush etc etc. We can just do what we can.
It's a thought I suppose but I am not sure the Germans would go for it.
You have some very strange views about what is acceptable, with regard to one individual's behaviour toward another."
I'm beginning to think i do. A 25 year old girl deceives her female chum of the same age that she's a boy. Over a two year period they spend over a hundred affectionate hours together......
I was surprised the police even got involved. I know a couple of Northern circuit judges who would jail you for driving a bicycle without lights so the sentence is marginally less surprising.
Perhaps there might be a lesson there in what happens when you create an artificial construct from the top down which then falls apart once its original purpose/guiding spirit disappears.
As I recall it was Germany's rush to recognise Croatia which precipitated other parts to declare their own independence before the issues of how these multi-ethnic/multi-religious/multicultural societies were going to get along. And the fate of Sarajevo should be a lesson to all of us that just because a place/country is happily multicultural/open/tolerant does not mean that it stays that way forever, if undue strain/stresses are placed on it.
A lesson Germany - and, indeed, other countries - might usefully learn.