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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » David Herdson calls for an Easter resurrection of Pontius P

SystemSystem Posts: 12,137
edited March 2013 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » David Herdson calls for an Easter resurrection of Pontius Pilate’s reputation?

The politician allowing the unjust crucifixion of the Son of God was never going to get a particularly good press by history, particularly one the Church wrote.  Pilate accepting Christ’s innocence only causes his reputation to fall further:

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Great Tweet response -

    Peter Mannion 'MP' ‏@PeterMannionMP 7m
    @MSmithsonPB May would want him crucified, but the judges would want to let him go surely?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Ukip would have portrayed Pilate's actions as an intervention from Europe and made it a South Shields by-election issue
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Never mind all this religious mumbo-jumbo gibberish. Of much more historical importance and interest is the question of why the Empire of Austenasia has had 4 Emperors in less than 5 years, and why it has thrived despite being beset by coups, military misadventures, communist revolution and civil war.

    http://austenasia.webs.com/emperorsandimperialfamily.htm
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,287
    It is well known that Pilate was a foppus and went to Etonae. Explains everything.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited March 2013
    Wasn't Pilate doing god's work?

    Had he been:

    New Labour : Rendered him unto Rome
    'One Nation" (sic) Labour: Complained about what Herod had not done, but not actually proposed anything himself.
    Conservative : Locked him up, got in a fight with the judiciary, while ignoring a valid extradition request from Persia.
    Lib Dem: Protested that the letter had never arrived, but were now "taking it very seriously and looking into it urgently."
    SNP: Crucified him, then claimed it was "A Victory for Pilate!"
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,630
    I like to think our senior politicians are all genuinely opposed to the death penalty, and that Jesus would have lived.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Roman authority was under question at the time, as Israel was an occupied state with a puppet government, rather than a part of the empire. In many ways the parallel would be with modern Afghanistan. Imagine a case today where an Afghan citizen was under trial for apostasy, which carries the death penalty in Afghanistan as well as a number of other Islamic nations. A military advisor to the puppet government would be in a very awkward position, wanting to free the defendant, but having to work under local legal systems. This is not theoretical as the case of Abdul Rahman shows:

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Rahman_(convert)#section_4

    That case was managed with a classic fudge, with a mis-trial declared and then the defendant quietly slipped out of the country, a better solution than the Pilate one, but one that leaves the question unresolved. The Barnabas fund gives a good summary of the situation today:

    http://barnabasfund.org/UK/Our-work/Our-current-projects/BF-Project-Countries/

    As Ecclesiastes states, there is nothing new under the sun, religious freedom is still not a right for many.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2013
    A good article, David - thanks (as always).
    O/T:
    R4 was discussing IDS's welfare reforms yesterday. It seems the entire State Welfare cost is £207 billion pa (2012/3).

    So...

    If we stopped every single welfare payment - pensions, CB, family credit etc - we'd just about be where the State's income/expenditure should be - around £80 billion pa surplus.

    And on that truly scary thought (ie returning pension age to its original 1906 age of 80 and ending CB entirely would not be nearly enough to 'balance the books') I'm off to walk the hills.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I *heart* this man

    SYDNEY — An eccentric Australian mining magnate who is building a replica of the ill-fated Titanic has unveiled his latest scheme -- a park of giant robotic dinosaurs.

    Clive Palmer, who last month in New York launched an ambitious plan to build and sail the "Titanic II", said he had ordered more than 100 life-size dinosaur robots from China to populate his north Australian resort.

    "We'll have the world's biggest dinosaur exhibit, with 165 animatronic dinosaurs," Palmer said.

    He already has two of the towering creatures -- named Jeff and Bones -- on display at his Palmer Coolum Resort on the Sunshine coast north of Brisbane and boasted that the public "haven't seen anything yet."

    The robots, some of which measure up to 7 metres tall and weigh in excess of 1.2 tonnes, will move their tails and chests and blink their eyes. They are expected to arrive by the end of April.

    A larger-than-life character who has made a fortune in mining, Palmer said recently that he was funding the Titanic II because "I want to spend the money I've got before I die".
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I've just reached my allocated 20 articles in the DT and now asked to register/sign up for subs.

    I'm torn - the only bits of the the DT I like are the blogs and the odd Weird news story. It's not the whole £1.99 that bothers me at all, but it's made me wonder about the quality of the product. I stopped bothering with The Times after it made life too much like hard work to pay them for subscribing... how bizarre is that?

    DT comments are also largely unreadable so there's very little *actual news* in most editions.

    What are other PBers thoughts? I'm going to see how I get on with just the Mail, Guardian and Indy - I doubt I'll last very long before returning to the Times TBH. Of all of them - they've the best all round product even if their billing sucks [and I don't have an iPad so haven't had the apps probs reported on here].
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited March 2013
    Not this old chestnut.

    Usually the 'Pontius Pilate wasn't that bad' is done by spoofers, bored public relations halfwits who think it's a 'challenge, 'or those who think that controversy is by and itself enough reason to rail against something.


    Since it isn't fact there's a rather obvious reason the story is as it is with Pilate shown as he is.

    It's like arguing that the recipients of loaves and fishes were 'welfare scroungers' or that crucifixion is 'tough on christianity, tough on the causes of christianity.'


    It was done superbly by the Python team and it was done as comedy for a reason as well.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    For racing followers - the sad news is finally confirmed

    JT Macnamara's Cheltenham fall has left him paralysed. He has a broken neck but said to be in 'good spirits'. Let's hope he manages to make some progress back - the Times columnist who had a similar injury is mobile again if only tentatively after a long recuperation.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    @Plato - have you tried deleting your Telegraph cookies?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited March 2013
    @CarlottaVance

    No I haven't - do you know which file it'd be? I've thousands of cookies.

    OT John Major and Eric Idle apparently both just turned 70 - here's a letter from Eric to John...

    https://twitter.com/LettersOfNote/status/317601025299185664/photo/1
  • redcliffe62redcliffe62 Posts: 342

    I like to think our senior politicians are all genuinely opposed to the death penalty, and that Jesus would have lived.

    Not for multiple murderers, or people who reoffend having already been given a 2nd chance by society. I think I would support that as less chance of a mistake.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Given the social disruption that Jesus was causing, Pontius Pilate seems to have been markedly liberal. It was his bad luck that the relevant media wanted to preserve good relations between the Christians and the Jews, which made Pilate a convenient scapegoat.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Plato said:

    @CarlottaVance

    No I haven't - do you know which file it'd be? I've thousands of cookies.

    OT John Major and Eric Idle apparently both just turned 70 - here's a letter from Eric to John...

    https://twitter.com/LettersOfNote/status/317601025299185664/photo/1

    This site has useful instructions.

    First select your browser and proceed.

    If you have problems, shout at me or send an email as I am working today and online.

    http://www.aboutcookies.org/page-2
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @Financier - thanks - will have a looksee later.
  • In today's era, we'd have had the following associated stories that the Pilate de nos jours would have had to consider

    1) It was all a Jewish plot led by Caiphas, the "Sanhedrin trial" probably violated Jesus' human rights, think of the CiF articles.

    2) Peter would have had his reputation torn to shreds over his thrice betrayal of Jesus. Making him Head of the Catholic Church would be like making Kim
    Philby head of The Secret Intelligence Service

    But you only have to look at the way Bill Clinton acted over Ricky Ray Rector to know most politicians would have acted the same way as Pontius Pilate.
  • Kinda on topic, let us not forget that the most important event this weekend is about the man who rose from the dead to save humanity.

    So Don't forget to watch Doctor Who this evening.
  • Save Ulster from Sodomy.

    Printer refuses to publish gay magazine

    Editor of Northern Irish publication MyGayZine seeks legal advice over rejection said to have been on grounds of faith


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/29/printer-refuses-publish-gay-magazine?mobile-redirect=false
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,595
    2,000 year old politics is more interesting than today's. What an inditement.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Jesus was providing private health care - he would be chased to Switzerland by the nhs believers....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,739
    Pontius Pilate was the David Miliband of his time.

    Pretentious, more interested in image than substance and ultimately willing to look the other way while an atrocity was committed.

    The parallels are obvious.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,252

    Wasn't Pilate doing god's work?

    Had he been:

    New Labour : Rendered him unto Rome
    'One Nation" (sic) Labour: Complained about what Herod had not done, but not actually proposed anything himself.
    Conservative : Locked him up, got in a fight with the judiciary, while ignoring a valid extradition request from Persia.
    Lib Dem: Protested that the letter had never arrived, but were now "taking it very seriously and looking into it urgently."
    SNP: Crucified him, then claimed it was "A Victory for Pilate!"

    Carlotta, The SNP would have done the right thing and set him free.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,739
    @Jonathan
    Jonathan said:

    2,000 year old politics is more interesting than today's. What an inditement.

    Well we could always go back to Michael Gove and the importance of spelling.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,725
    Good morning, everyone.

    Very interesting take on Pilate, Mr. Herdson.

    Mr. Flashman, technically it was charity, I think. Did Jesus receive a fee?

    He did, however, break Sabbath trading laws set down by Mosaic Law, for which the Pharisees tried to get him to confess to criminal activity.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    RT @GabrielSterne: Reuters report Bank of Cyprus to get at least 62.5% haircut. Paid in shares. Who would want those? http://t.co/dgz8faTJBm
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    EdM really isn't terribly photogenic - today's Indy is especially cruel.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BGlvoplCIAA6v6m.jpg:large
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @DavidL

    "the importance of spelling"

    Is that akin to the Importance of Being Ernest? :^O
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,725
    Miss Plato, I sympathise with E. Miliband. I have a similar problem (although I tend to look like a serial killer rather than a berk).
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,509
    Great piece by David, thought-provoking as usual. And that's an astonshingly good movie (watched the whole 15 minutes) - I suppose everyone else knows but I don't recognise it, what's it from?

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,739
    edited March 2013
    @ MalcolmG
    "Carlotta, The SNP would have done the right thing and set him free."


    I thought Pontius Pilate was SNP. He was allegedly born in Fortingall in Glen Lyon where there is still a tree that was alive when he was.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Rather liked this by the Fink http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21976925

    The impact of speeches never given...

    "What if John F Kennedy had returned home safely from Dallas return from Dallas on 22 November, 1963? Would Congress have passed the Civil Rights Bill? Would the South have defected to the Republican Party? Would millions have died in the conflict in Vietnam?

    History is not just a litany of all the things that happen, it is about what did not happen, about the road not taken.

    And sadly that history, the history of things that did not happen, is unknowable. Which is what makes it tantalising and fascinating.

    But there is a way to catch a glimpse of that history, to see, or maybe just to feel what it might have been like. And it lies in the archives. In the notes for speeches written but never given..."
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,374
    edited March 2013

    Great piece by David, thought-provoking as usual. And that's an astonshingly good movie (watched the whole 15 minutes) - I suppose everyone else knows but I don't recognise it, what's it from?

    The film is the Passion of The Christ, directed by Mel Gibson.

    Great film, watched it many many times.

    Is a bit graphic in places.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @MorrisDancer

    I tend to be smiling like a Cheshire Cat or laughing like a drain which doesn't tend to reflect a flattering image either unless one is starring in a Carry On movie or the inmate of a lunatic asylum.

    Being caught with a double chin or with one's eyes closed remains my greatest fear ;^ )
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    Carlotta, The SNP would have done the right thing and set him free.

    So no crucifixion, no resurrection, and no Christianity.....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,725
    Mr. Eagles, is that the film were Jesus McChrist gets killed by bastard Englishmen who hate him for wanting freedom?
  • Re the SNP analogies.

    Surely the SNP is like the Judean People's Front.

    *Innocent face*
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,739
    Plato said:

    @DavidL

    "the importance of spelling"

    Is that akin to the Importance of Being Ernest? :^O

    I just know I am going to regret that comment all too soon. In fact I am tempted to make soem deliberate spelling error now to get it over with.
  • Mr. Eagles, is that the film were Jesus McChrist gets killed by bastard Englishmen who hate him for wanting freedom?

    That's the one.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,739
    edited March 2013
    I have never watched the film on the basis that Gibson is a class one nutter. Maybe I missed something.
  • DavidL said:

    I have never watched the film on the basis that Gibson is a class one nutter. Maybe I missed something.

    I've never been a fan of Mel Gibson bar the Mad Max and Lethal Weapon films, but the Passion of the Christ is a mighty fine film, it is very powerful.

    I nearly converted to Christianity watching it.
  • Another saddo fact.

    The man in the picture above who played Pilate, is called Hristo, which is Bulgarian for Christ.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,725
    Mr. Eagles, you would have been a loss to the Pastafarians.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,252

    malcolmg said:

    Carlotta, The SNP would have done the right thing and set him free.

    So no crucifixion, no resurrection, and no Christianity.....
    I am sure he would have still managed the Christianity bit as long as he did not do a Blair.

  • Mr. Eagles, you would have been a loss to the Pastafarians.

    I'm always going to be a Pastafarian.

    "Touch my noodly appendgage"
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    Great article, David!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Off topic, I imagine the smell of bacon has been driving local residents mad:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-21978572

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,252
    antifrank said:

    Off topic, I imagine the smell of bacon has been driving local residents mad:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-21978572

    Probably world record for biggest ever barbecue.
  • antifrank said:

    Off topic, I imagine the smell of bacon has been driving local residents mad:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-21978572

    Talking of Bacon.

    http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/odd/news/a469312/bacon-flavoured-condoms-on-sale-pictures.html
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,509
    Thanks, TSE. Like DavidL I avoided the film because of Gibson's reputation. I'll seek it out.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    @TSE - Not only is before the Lagershed, it's before the OrangeJuiceShed...
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited March 2013
    Oh dear. The incompetent fop has his own religious problems. Good thing he stands up for what he believes. Primarily that he believes in being in a second rate Blair impersonator.
    Ostercy ‏@Ostercy 36m

    Cameron accused of betraying Christians: http://bit.ly/165uil5 @MailOnline But not the poor. Carey = Patron Saint of Right Wing Scumbags
    Poor old tea party tories, what a shame. ;^)

    *Innocent face*
  • @TSE - Not only is before the Lagershed, it's before the OrangeJuiceShed...

    I've not been to bed yet. So my body clock is buggered at the moment, I went to an 80s all nighter last night.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,739
    On a slightly more serious note we may soon see our second nuclear war: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21979127

    Now there is one map that I am glad we are not on. I wonder how the Chinese leadership are feeling about the support they gave that lunatic family now. I also wonder if they have enough influence to engineer a coup.

    Could get very messy.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    I've embedded the video in place of the screen grab.
  • DavidL said:

    On a slightly more serious note we may soon see our second nuclear war: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21979127

    Now there is one map that I am glad we are not on. I wonder how the Chinese leadership are feeling about the support they gave that lunatic family now. I also wonder if they have enough influence to engineer a coup.

    Could get very messy.

    It could get even messier, imagine there is a war in Korea, and that the US commits a large proportion of its military to defend South Korea, China could take the opportunity to seize Taiwan.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,739
    edited March 2013
    @TheScreamingEagles

    I suspect any new war in the Korean peninsular is going to be over within hours. You really cannot mess about with a country that has nuclear weapons. Any US response will be savage and overwhelming.

    And the US Pacific fleet will be on maximum alert and in the theatre. Not a good time for China to be silly. The Japanese are gearing up their fleet in a big way too.

    I don't think that there is a lot of doubt that this part of the world is going to see the next major war. It is really a matter of when.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,418
    DavidL said:

    @TheScreamingEagles

    I suspect any new war in the Korean peninsular is going to be over within hours. You really cannot mess about with a country that has nuclear weapons. Any US response will be savage and overwhelming.

    And the US Pacific fleet will be on maximum alert and in the theatre. Not a good time for China to be silly. The Japanese are gearing up their fleet in a big way too.

    I don't think that there is a lot of doubt that this part of the world is going to see the next major war. It is really a matter of when.

    Wouldn't wan to own property in Seoul. The North Koreans have the ability to fire an 80,000 round opening artillery barrage. That wouldn't leave much worth saving.

    The North Koreans are basically SPECTRE, willing to use whatever criminal means to extort from whoever. They have fingers in many pies - drugs, counterfeiting, even the ginseng trade. The real mystery is why China allows this sore to fester.
  • Plato said:

    I've just reached my allocated 20 articles in the DT and now asked to register/sign up for subs.

    I'm torn - the only bits of the the DT I like are the blogs and the odd Weird news story. It's not the whole £1.99 that bothers me at all, but it's made me wonder about the quality of the product. I stopped bothering with The Times after it made life too much like hard work to pay them for subscribing... how bizarre is that?

    DT comments are also largely unreadable so there's very little *actual news* in most editions.

    What are other PBers thoughts? I'm going to see how I get on with just the Mail, Guardian and Indy - I doubt I'll last very long before returning to the Times TBH. Of all of them - they've the best all round product even if their billing sucks [and I don't have an iPad so haven't had the apps probs reported on here].

    Times on iPad is almost back to its previous high standard.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Still, does he deserve the opprobrium of the ages? I’m far from convinced so.
    You do know he was held responsible for thunderstorms in the middle of Switzerland for nearly 1,500 years?

    http://www.pilatus.ch/en/the-mountain/legends-myths/legend-of-pilatus/
  • @MarqueeMark

    If only the North Koreans were like the Mysterons, then David Miliband and international rescue could sort them out
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Interesting Miliband interview in the Indie - and how Labour are building local organisation:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ed-miliband-politics-is-far-too-important-to-be-left-to-the-politicians-8554822.html
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,725
    Mr. Eagles, surely Spectrum, not International Rescue?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,509
    To reply to plato - essentially I think paywalls are reasonable: we don't begrudge people being paid for almost anything else we enjoy using. But I've not signed up given the availability of free alternatives and, as you say, the hassle factor. The internet still needs a generally-accepted micropayments system that's really easy to use (PayPal comes close). Despite the tax controversy I still use Amazon because of their one-click feature, and if they offered a Times sub on that basis I might be tempted. I certainly wouldn't pay anything to read the Telegraph, but that's a side-issue because I think they're prone to publish rubbish so I'm not really a regular customer anyway, and just dip in when someone here recommends a particlar article.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,693
    Jonathan: "2,000 year old politics is more interesting than today's. What an inditement. [sic]"

    2000 year-old politics is fascinating. It's just a shame that there aren't many betting opportunities. Don't worry: normal 21st century coverage will be resumed next week.
  • Mr Dancer, yes you are right.

    Spectrum it is.

    I think that is a sign I should go to bed.
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    It's incredible how the meeja don't get geography. Drawing a straight-line on a map does not show the shortest route point-to-point.

    http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/cf_images/20060708/CAS944.gif
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited March 2013

    DavidL said:

    @TheScreamingEagles

    I suspect any new war in the Korean peninsular is going to be over within hours. You really cannot mess about with a country that has nuclear weapons. Any US response will be savage and overwhelming.

    And the US Pacific fleet will be on maximum alert and in the theatre. Not a good time for China to be silly. The Japanese are gearing up their fleet in a big way too.

    I don't think that there is a lot of doubt that this part of the world is going to see the next major war. It is really a matter of when.

    Wouldn't wan to own property in Seoul. The North Koreans have the ability to fire an 80,000 round opening artillery barrage. That wouldn't leave much worth saving.

    The North Koreans are basically SPECTRE, willing to use whatever criminal means to extort from whoever. They have fingers in many pies - drugs, counterfeiting, even the ginseng trade. The real mystery is why China allows this sore to fester.
    North Korea will collapse at some point, its ideology is just too absurd to last much longer. It would be better as an internal collapse, but little sign of that at present. War is a real possibility.

    North Korean forces are deeply embedded in bunkers so not so susceptible to counter battery fire as in a mobile war. It would either have to be a very aggressive response by South Korea, or a very vigorous pre-emptive strike. It would have to be very overwhelming to be successful.

    I suspect though that most of the North Korean army would be poorly led and poorly equipped, collapsing as quickly as the Iraqi army did in 1991 and 2003. The aftermath might be easier to manage though, as the South would be in charge, ratherthan foreign powers.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    edited March 2013

    To reply to plato - essentially I think paywalls are reasonable: we don't begrudge people being paid for almost anything else we enjoy using. But I've not signed up given the availability of free alternatives and, as you say, the hassle factor. The internet still needs a generally-accepted micropayments system that's really easy to use (PayPal comes close). Despite the tax controversy I still use Amazon because of their one-click feature, and if they offered a Times sub on that basis I might be tempted. I certainly wouldn't pay anything to read the Telegraph, but that's a side-issue because I think they're prone to publish rubbish so I'm not really a regular customer anyway, and just dip in when someone here recommends a particlar article.

    The problem with paywall for me is that I tend to 'dip in' across papers online, when I have time, looking at stuff I'm particularly interested in. So do I pay for the lot?

    Maybe there's a market for a site across papers where you can subscribe to read articles/reports etc in specific categories - the more categories you want to access the more you pay. Then your sub is split between the host site and newspapers etc depending on which pages you click on (a system I assume would be easy to set up). Or whatever.

    Otherwise I tend to buy one or two papers at the weekend, again time permitting, when I'm out on the wander - I'll sit with a coffee somewhere and read them back to back. I prefer that to looking at screens. It just feels more focused/relaxing.

    Interesting article btw.

    OT... was anyone else seeing a picture of a boxer dog in a shower via the newspaper widget last night, whatever front page you clicked on? I had a quick look when I got home in the early hours. Okay, I was a bit merry - but I'm a tad concerned if I was drunkenly hallucinating a boxer dog in a shower...

  • tim said:

    "Iain Duncan Smith: we’ve given up trying to cut benefits"

    Benedict Brogan
    @benedictbrogan: IDS admits welfare bill will keep going up - so much for idea that Univ Credit is going to save us money. Big moment http://t.co/pVZLbjUWPu


    They've given up on deficit reduction too.Pointless bunch of amateurs.

    Well, given your lot have opposed every single tincy-wincy micro-reduction, and then some, perhaps you can tell us what the point of your lot is.
    AND what you would do differently.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,630

    To reply to plato - essentially I think paywalls are reasonable: we don't begrudge people being paid for almost anything else we enjoy using. But I've not signed up given the availability of free alternatives and, as you say, the hassle factor. The internet still needs a generally-accepted micropayments system that's really easy to use (PayPal comes close). Despite the tax controversy I still use Amazon because of their one-click feature, and if they offered a Times sub on that basis I might be tempted. I certainly wouldn't pay anything to read the Telegraph, but that's a side-issue because I think they're prone to publish rubbish so I'm not really a regular customer anyway, and just dip in when someone here recommends a particlar article.

    The problem with The Times subscription is that it bundles in the Sunday Times - a truly abysmal rag. On top of which under its new editor the daily has become much more stridently Tory. It's in danger of becoming an in-house Tory publication with a few left-field voices, instead of the fairly balanced, thought-provoking newspaper it was. In short, it's in danger of turning into the Sunday Times!

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    tim said:

    "Iain Duncan Smith: we’ve given up trying to cut benefits"

    Benedict Brogan
    @benedictbrogan: IDS admits welfare bill will keep going up - so much for idea that Univ Credit is going to save us money. Big moment http://t.co/pVZLbjUWPu


    Erm, didn't the finest Chancellor since Alistair Darling always object to UC because it would cost more? Nice to know he got one forecast right.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    tim said:

    "Iain Duncan Smith: we’ve given up trying to cut benefits"

    Benedict Brogan
    @benedictbrogan: IDS admits welfare bill will keep going up - so much for idea that Univ Credit is going to save us money. Big moment http://t.co/pVZLbjUWPu


    Erm, didn't the finest Chancellor since Alistair Darling always object to UC because it would cost more? Nice to know he got one forecast right.

    I always understood from the publications on UC that it was projected to save money in the long term (via limiting perverse incentives not to work) but the policy was always going to cost more in the short run. Hence the dispute between George and IDS. So what is new?

    And more to the point, what is the alternative? A blank sheet of paper, and ubiquitous opposition to even the smallest economies?
  • samsam Posts: 727
    I'm not particularly religious, for example I've never been to church outside Weddings & funerals, but I was quite surprised a the lack of religious programmes on tv yesterday. Just Melvyn Bragg talking about Mary Magdalene?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758



    Erm, didn't the finest Chancellor since Alistair Darling always object to UC because it would cost more? Nice to know he got one forecast right.

    I thought it was always going to cost more?

    The idea is to reform the system so that people are always better off in work.

    That is a moral imperative: it does no one any good to stay on benefits for extended periods. So many of the moves this government has been trying: apprenticeships, universal credit, etc are trying to solve this problem.

    Of course it would have been far, far easier to do during a period of, say, 10 years of economic boom. But someone shirked that responsibility and so it falls to the Tories to try and make the system work in a time when there isn't much money to go around.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Plato said:

    And sadly that history, the history of things that did not happen, is unknowable. Which is what makes it tantalising and fascinating.

    I lurk on alternatehistory.com (mostly in the post 1900 section) and find many of the tweaked political timelines very well written and plausible. You get interesting outcomes from the smallest point of historical divergence. Just avoid the WW2 threads though - they always go nuts.

    Mr Stodge of this Parish is a prolific contributor over there.

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Is this Nu Nu Disqus (Vanilla Flavour) permanently screwed? I have now reset my password four times. How I long for the old days. The site is dead since the "upgrade".
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,725
    Mr. Bobajob, I've not had any issues with my password.

    Have others encountered similar? What strength of password was indicated when you set it up?
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    sam said:

    I'm not particularly religious, for example I've never been to church outside Weddings & funerals, but I was quite surprised a the lack of religious programmes on tv yesterday. Just Melvyn Bragg talking about Mary Magdalene?

    There are entire channels devoted to superstitions of all breeds, for those that want them. Me and my three-year-old are more than happy with the oriental mysticism of Kung Fu Panda.

  • hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    tim said:

    "Iain Duncan Smith: we’ve given up trying to cut benefits"

    Benedict Brogan
    @benedictbrogan: IDS admits welfare bill will keep going up - so much for idea that Univ Credit is going to save us money. Big moment http://t.co/pVZLbjUWPu


    They've given up on deficit reduction too.Pointless bunch of amateurs.

    Exactly Tim. This government appear to be implementing policies because they think it is the right thing to do, rather than because it saves money. Whenever government makes any changes, most of the time, it costs money to make those changes. When they are challenged on impact assessments and costs, they are never clear about the consequences of their policies.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    tim said:

    "Iain Duncan Smith: we’ve given up trying to cut benefits"

    Benedict Brogan
    @benedictbrogan: IDS admits welfare bill will keep going up - so much for idea that Univ Credit is going to save us money. Big moment http://t.co/pVZLbjUWPu


    They've given up on deficit reduction too.Pointless bunch of amateurs.

    Well, given your lot have opposed every single tincy-wincy micro-reduction, and then some, perhaps you can tell us what the point of your lot is.
    AND what you would do differently.
    Better to lay out a clear prospectus when you know the scale of the problem, as Ozzy has another two years of havoc to wreak, we are nowhere near that point yet.

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    Mr. Bobajob, I've not had any issues with my password.

    Have others encountered similar? What strength of password was indicated when you set it up?

    Thanks for the reply, Morris. I got strong rating by adding numbers every time. Sadly, the passwords only appear to work for one login, then I have to reset. We battle and bray on here, but I miss it. The site seems to be in a state of flux - posting levels are well down and I fear it is dying.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,725
    That's most peculiar. I got a strong rating by a similar method and it's not been a problem.

    Not a technical sort of person, but are you logging in from the same device each time? Are you using a PC or something else? [I'm using the same desktop as usual].
  • EgertonEgerton Posts: 1
    Interesting similarity between the strategy of North Korea and the teaching Unions . They seem somewhat ridiculous but also quite scary at the same time .
  • samsam Posts: 727
    Bobajob said:

    sam said:

    I'm not particularly religious, for example I've never been to church outside Weddings & funerals, but I was quite surprised a the lack of religious programmes on tv yesterday. Just Melvyn Bragg talking about Mary Magdalene?

    There are entire channels devoted to superstitions of all breeds, for those that want them. Me and my three-year-old are more than happy with the oriental mysticism of Kung Fu Panda.

    Are you a real person or a parody? That was like an auto response from a Richard Dawkins wind up doll.

    It was Good Friday. If its just a normal day then why is it a Bank Holiday? Have you replied to David Herdson, mocking him for the irrelevance of the point of his thread?.



  • Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    Regarding Paywalls..... today we have received our final copy of the Times delivered by the paperboy. Despite the recent blip after it moved to Newstand, reading the paper in bed in the morning on the iPad and doing the crossword with the first coffee of the morning is a delight. Mrs R56 has her own iPad so we can race to see who finishes first, something we haven't done for years.
  • Re: Passwords - I tried to create a new account last week, created a password and entered the captcha characters. The system then told me to create a stronger password. I have done, and as it is different to the other passwords that I have (I have over 200) have now added it to the list of passwords on my noticeboard.

    As least, as they say, it is a strong password. Trouble is, it is insecure. Anyway, I should be able to post now.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    OT.
    The only mention of Pilate other than in the bible is, IIRC, a stone tablet or base of a plinth with his name engraved on, in Ceasaria, Israel.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    hucks67 said:

    When they are challenged on impact assessments and costs, they are never clear about the consequences of their policies.

    Here you go, Universal Credit, the impact assessment provided by the Government, clear enough for you?

    http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/universal-credit-wr2011-ia.pdf


  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @Bobajob I completely disagree. There are fewer posts, but the sound to noise ratio seems to have markedly improved since the upgrade. And the site seems a bit better humoured too.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited March 2013
    Bobajob said:

    sam said:

    I'm not particularly religious, for example I've never been to church outside Weddings & funerals, but I was quite surprised a the lack of religious programmes on tv yesterday. Just Melvyn Bragg talking about Mary Magdalene?

    There are entire channels devoted to superstitions of all breeds, for those that want them. Me and my three-year-old are more than happy with the oriental mysticism of Kung Fu Panda.

    There are plenty of religions without superstition: the Quakerism, Taoism, certain types of Buddhism, Unitarianism. Like other religions, they will also do a lot of moral teaching, provide a sense of community and support, and engage in social justice. However, membership will take away your ability to look down on the religious.
  • hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758

    Re: Passwords - I tried to create a new account last week, created a password and entered the captcha characters. The system then told me to create a stronger password. I have done, and as it is different to the other passwords that I have (I have over 200) have now added it to the list of passwords on my noticeboard.

    As least, as they say, it is a strong password. Trouble is, it is insecure. Anyway, I should be able to post now.

    When you register, you have to satisfy the requirements to have a strong password. But if you then forget the password and on the log on click on the thing that says forgotten password, you get an email that links you to a screen where you can enter any password you like, even if it is weak. I think to satisfy Vanilla on the original sign up you had to have a mixture of upper/lower keys and numbers/letters. But on changing the password, you can use whatever you like.
  • OK. I might try that, then I can use the same password I use for most things (where they don't have to be changed).

    Eight characters, a mixture of upper and lower case, and some digits should be sufficient.
  • hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    Neil said:

    hucks67 said:

    When they are challenged on impact assessments and costs, they are never clear about the consequences of their policies.

    Here you go, Universal Credit, the impact assessment provided by the Government, clear enough for you?

    http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/universal-credit-wr2011-ia.pdf


    Unusual, as governments don't normally publish impact assessments as such.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    hucks67 said:


    Unusual, as governments don't normally publish impact assessments as such.

    No, it would be highly unusual not to produce an impact assessment for a policy of this significance.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,509
    I'm with Bobajob - I think Disqus for all its faults was better. The lack of an answer function here is strangling debate. It's still worth reaqding for the thread headers, but it's no longer a major site for interactive debate. The idea of paying money for this seems to me a mistake!
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @AN1 and @Financier - your cookie tip worked ;^ )

    Thanks.
This discussion has been closed.