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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Antifrank on the impact of the big Lords Individual elector

SystemSystem Posts: 12,221
edited October 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Antifrank on the impact of the big Lords Individual electoral registration vote

The House of Lords revolt on tax credits has got a huge amount of attention.  Less newsworthy, because it didn’t succeed, was an attempt in the House of Lords to delay the introduction of individual electoral registration by 12 months beyond the government’s proposed timetable.  The implications of that vote, however, may be more far-reaching.  What effect will it have?

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    All Blacks try! New Zealand now lead 14 points to 3
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,558
    A fine article. Thanks.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    FPT
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    I taught for over 30 years in a range of types of state schools - after a really difficult first year I simply do not accept that a teacher needs to work much more than 30-35 hours a week to prepare, mark and teach effectively in the secondary sector. That was my norm throughout my career teaching History and always achieved examination results at least in line with expectations/predictions and normally some way above. unfortunately many teachers work inefficiently and like to play the martyr. Fair enough if that floats their boat but it simply is not necessary for the purposes of doing a good job. Remuneration is pretty good, holidays superb and the pension to die for.

    Edit: Oh and of course the job is [mostly] very rewarding way beyond any financial benefits. I loved it.

    Felix, out of interest when did you retire? Genuine question.

    EDIT - also, did you ever get promotion or did you stay a classroom teacher?
    I retired in 2009 as deputy head and taught in inner london comps for 20 years and then a Kent grammar for the last 12 years. The challenges in different schools varied but one thing I've always been convinced of is that the key to successful teaching and management is to be organized and work smart. Hours clocked is sadly not a very important indicator of value or quality of work. When I was deputy head I taught less but was always determined to maintain a record of very high quality exam success and popularity of the subject using the value-added measures of course.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    All Blacks score again, now 21 3, looks like New Zealand will be the first back to back winners of the World Cup!
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,102
    Very interesting article, @antifrank, thank you.

    (And thanks also to @david_herdson for the previous very interesting article - also my best wishes for your wife's recovery.)

    Seems to me the move to individual voter registration has been reasonably well planned & implemented, and I see no reason for delaying the switch.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    A very good article exposing all of the silly mythology about 'gerrymander'. I think the penultimate 2 paragraphs are very relevant for Labour. However, I suspect still their quest to energize the young and the other non-voters is probably largely a waste of time and effort. The real task is to persuade the over 55's to vote Labour and for that it is less about organisation and more about message. The truth seems to be that they don't really like most Tory voters and this mindset is killing them.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    The circumstances around the crash of that Russian airliner are getting a bit murky.

    Whilst it is not unusual for the odd Islamic radical group to claim responsibility for a car crash in an area where they operate, never mind the downing of an airliner associated with a now sworn enemy, its hard to know how genuine such claims are.

    What actually makes it murky is some serious contradictory information from Egypt. The Russians were very fast out of the traps on the cause but the official Egyptian line appears to be somewhat countered by other statements from their own officials.



  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Pretty hard to organise the registration of non-existent voters
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,143
    AnneJGP said:

    Very interesting article, @antifrank, thank you.

    (And thanks also to @david_herdson for the previous very interesting article - also my best wishes for your wife's recovery.)

    Seems to me the move to individual voter registration has been reasonably well planned & implemented, and I see no reason for delaying the switch.

    Indeed. Lords debate was really quite funny to watch (I couldn't sleep on Tuesday night). Tory lords and several cross benchers outlining that the debate was not about the difference between the old register and the new, but about recognising that efforts had been made to contact each registered voter 9 times and that was surely sufficient. Labour Lords continually going for the 'but its not fair that there will be reductions in our seats' despite it being pointed out that registered voter numbers would also reduce in several really deprived areas like Ken/Chel.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    Australia score and convert narrowing the gap a little to eleven points
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    runnymede said:

    Pretty hard to organise the registration of non-existent voters

    Mr Ali and his forty cousins living above a kebab house in Tower Hamlets are going to be particularly aggrieved.
  • Y0kel said:

    The circumstances around the crash of that Russian airliner are getting a bit murky.

    Whilst it is not unusual for the odd Islamic radical group to claim responsibility for a car crash in an area where they operate, never mind the downing of an airliner associated with a now sworn enemy, its hard to know how genuine such claims are.

    What actually makes it murky is some serious contradictory information from Egypt. The Russians were very fast out of the traps on the cause but the official Egyptian line appears to be somewhat countered by other statements from their own officials.



    Unless ISIS were able to plant a bomb on the aircraft,it would seem unlikely. It would require highly powerful and sophisticated missiles to bring down an a/c at 310000 feet. The Ukranian rebels had such (Buk) with their provenance coming from Russia. There does not seem to be any evidence ISIS has anything like these as well as the expertise to use them. If they did have such, there will have to be a huge realignment of airways between Europe and the Middle / Far East. 200 + dead. RIP
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    Y0kel said:

    The circumstances around the crash of that Russian airliner are getting a bit murky.

    Whilst it is not unusual for the odd Islamic radical group to claim responsibility for a car crash in an area where they operate, never mind the downing of an airliner associated with a now sworn enemy, its hard to know how genuine such claims are.

    What actually makes it murky is some serious contradictory information from Egypt. The Russians were very fast out of the traps on the cause but the official Egyptian line appears to be somewhat countered by other statements from their own officials.



    Unless ISIS were able to plant a bomb on the aircraft,it would seem unlikely. It would require highly powerful and sophisticated missiles to bring down an a/c at 310000 feet. The Ukranian rebels had such (Buk) with their provenance coming from Russia. There does not seem to be any evidence ISIS has anything like these as well as the expertise to use them. If they did have such, there will have to be a huge realignment of airways between Europe and the Middle / Far East. 200 + dead. RIP
    The assumption is a mechanical incident but the Egyptians either don't know how to control information flow or something is going on.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Momentum is not a 'new grouping' it is a party within a party. I would have thought as leader of the labour party he already had a 'mass movement' that could organise in every town.

    My guess is that the need for individual registration and taking defunct names off the register is to prevent the blatant electoral fraud that had previously been benefitting the labour party. As such the actions of the Lords was disgraceful.

  • Great article Antifrank, thank you. I guess all parties need to attract the new voters. However, some students in University towns vote where they come from, so the Momentum work may not always be picked up on. Very interesting to see the differentials!
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Y0kel said:

    The circumstances around the crash of that Russian airliner are getting a bit murky.

    Whilst it is not unusual for the odd Islamic radical group to claim responsibility for a car crash in an area where they operate, never mind the downing of an airliner associated with a now sworn enemy, its hard to know how genuine such claims are.

    What actually makes it murky is some serious contradictory information from Egypt. The Russians were very fast out of the traps on the cause but the official Egyptian line appears to be somewhat countered by other statements from their own officials.

    How would Isis shoot down a plane from 31000 feet?

  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    felix said:

    A very good article exposing all of the silly mythology about 'gerrymander'. I think the penultimate 2 paragraphs are very relevant for Labour. However, I suspect still their quest to energize the young and the other non-voters is probably largely a waste of time and effort. The real task is to persuade the over 55's to vote Labour and for that it is less about organisation and more about message. The truth seems to be that they don't really like most Tory voters and this mindset is killing them.

    Ive been surreptitiously following a few momentum groups just to see what is going on. It's difficult not to be intimidated by the sheer scale of new members that Labour appear to be getting. Dont understimate just how small in numbers both Labour and Cons are when it comes to people willing to knock their pan out.

    Help tends to flood in as polling day comes closer, but getting volunteers to do early work? Not easy. Ive seen a parliamentary seat change hands due to one good (unpaid) co-ordinator and half a dozen dedicated volunteers.

    The idea that the competition might have hundreds of new members, even if they were only willing to deliver a couple of hundred leaflets each, its enough to swamp a constituency.

    Anyway, Momentum is organised on a county level. This county used to have four seats it would consider pretty safe. It now has two that are fairly safe and one that is a nailed on loss, all the seats it has ever held in the county could certainly be classed as 'working class'.

    Their first meeting, organised by social media. Fifteen members. Hmmm.

    Is the Corbyasm a phenomena in only certain parts of the country?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,909
    Y0kel said:

    Y0kel said:

    The circumstances around the crash of that Russian airliner are getting a bit murky.

    Whilst it is not unusual for the odd Islamic radical group to claim responsibility for a car crash in an area where they operate, never mind the downing of an airliner associated with a now sworn enemy, its hard to know how genuine such claims are.

    What actually makes it murky is some serious contradictory information from Egypt. The Russians were very fast out of the traps on the cause but the official Egyptian line appears to be somewhat countered by other statements from their own officials.



    Unless ISIS were able to plant a bomb on the aircraft,it would seem unlikely. It would require highly powerful and sophisticated missiles to bring down an a/c at 310000 feet. The Ukranian rebels had such (Buk) with their provenance coming from Russia. There does not seem to be any evidence ISIS has anything like these as well as the expertise to use them. If they did have such, there will have to be a huge realignment of airways between Europe and the Middle / Far East. 200 + dead. RIP
    The assumption is a mechanical incident but the Egyptians either don't know how to control information flow or something is going on.
    It is possible though unlikely I suppose that a mechanical incident could have caused its initial descent and making it an easier target for a shoulder launched missile. Very 'good luck' for ISIS in that instance.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    Australia score again
  • Biggest choke in rugby history could be taking place right now.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    Y0kel said:

    The circumstances around the crash of that Russian airliner are getting a bit murky.

    Whilst it is not unusual for the odd Islamic radical group to claim responsibility for a car crash in an area where they operate, never mind the downing of an airliner associated with a now sworn enemy, its hard to know how genuine such claims are.

    What actually makes it murky is some serious contradictory information from Egypt. The Russians were very fast out of the traps on the cause but the official Egyptian line appears to be somewhat countered by other statements from their own officials.

    How would Isis shoot down a plane from 31000 feet?

    You are correct technically this seems well unlikely based on what we have presented at this point, but the briefings out of Egypt are deeply contrary. The credence of claims from some radical groups, as pointed out down thread, are somewhat dodge and shouldn't be taken as gospel. If the Egyptians were consistent there'd be no contest. But they are not.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    Australia score and convert narrowing the gap a little to eleven points

    NBC - bless their hearts - are showing the game live. I'm watching it on my dvr. Many years ago I used to live near Twickenham stadium and got my car serviced at the nearby Ford dealer.

    That field level electronic advertising is distracting though. You would never see that here.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059

    Biggest choke in rugby history could be taking place right now.

    Maybe not, Dan Carter drop goal extends All Black lead
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Australia score and convert narrowing the gap a little to eleven points

    NBC - bless their hearts - are showing the game live. I'm watching it on my dvr. Many years ago I used to live near Twickenham stadium and got my car serviced at the nearby Ford dealer.

    That field level electronic advertising is distracting though. You would never see that here.
    Well the US team did not disgrace themselves in the pool stages. Good to see the NFL still takes a more traditional approach to advertising
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    Carter kick goes over, All Blacks now lead by 10 points and surely are World Champions now
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    Excellent article, thanks antifrank!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    Brilliant New Zealand try and its over!
  • Brilliant from NZ. Immense strength. But well played Australia.
  • Y0kel said:

    Y0kel said:

    The circumstances around the crash of that Russian airliner are getting a bit murky.

    Whilst it is not unusual for the odd Islamic radical group to claim responsibility for a car crash in an area where they operate, never mind the downing of an airliner associated with a now sworn enemy, its hard to know how genuine such claims are.

    What actually makes it murky is some serious contradictory information from Egypt. The Russians were very fast out of the traps on the cause but the official Egyptian line appears to be somewhat countered by other statements from their own officials.



    Unless ISIS were able to plant a bomb on the aircraft,it would seem unlikely. It would require highly powerful and sophisticated missiles to bring down an a/c at 310000 feet. The Ukranian rebels had such (Buk) with their provenance coming from Russia. There does not seem to be any evidence ISIS has anything like these as well as the expertise to use them. If they did have such, there will have to be a huge realignment of airways between Europe and the Middle / Far East. 200 + dead. RIP
    The assumption is a mechanical incident but the Egyptians either don't know how to control information flow or something is going on.
    It is possible though unlikely I suppose that a mechanical incident could have caused its initial descent and making it an easier target for a shoulder launched missile. Very 'good luck' for ISIS in that instance.
    That would be an extraordinary coincidence and the more so as a controlled decent woulld enable a distress call, change transponder code and general indications of trouble. They will analyse the CVR and FDR and I expect we will get some answers. It is far from unusual for terrorist organisations to claim responsibility for accidental crashes.
  • Biggest choke in rugby history could be taking place right now.

    Maintaining your prediction record I see.
  • What an absolutely superb game. Mesmerising.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046

    Y0kel said:

    Y0kel said:

    The circumstances around the crash of that Russian airliner are getting a bit murky.

    Whilst it is not unusual for the odd Islamic radical group to claim responsibility for a car crash in an area where they operate, never mind the downing of an airliner associated with a now sworn enemy, its hard to know how genuine such claims are.

    What actually makes it murky is some serious contradictory information from Egypt. The Russians were very fast out of the traps on the cause but the official Egyptian line appears to be somewhat countered by other statements from their own officials.



    Unless ISIS were able to plant a bomb on the aircraft,it would seem unlikely. It would require highly powerful and sophisticated missiles to bring down an a/c at 310000 feet. The Ukranian rebels had such (Buk) with their provenance coming from Russia. There does not seem to be any evidence ISIS has anything like these as well as the expertise to use them. If they did have such, there will have to be a huge realignment of airways between Europe and the Middle / Far East. 200 + dead. RIP
    The assumption is a mechanical incident but the Egyptians either don't know how to control information flow or something is going on.
    It is possible though unlikely I suppose that a mechanical incident could have caused its initial descent and making it an easier target for a shoulder launched missile. Very 'good luck' for ISIS in that instance.
    That would be an extraordinary coincidence and the more so as a controlled decent woulld enable a distress call, change transponder code and general indications of trouble. They will analyse the CVR and FDR and I expect we will get some answers. It is far from unusual for terrorist organisations to claim responsibility for accidental crashes.
    What's strange is that it was apparently descending at 5,000 ft/min. These things are designed to glide for a hundred or so miles in the event of such a failure.
  • Biggest choke in rugby history could be taking place right now.

    Maintaining your prediction record I see.

    Note use of "could", grumpy.

  • Excellent article.

    But there's a tiny mistake - a couple of Redbridge wards are in the Chingford & Woodford Green constituency.

    On the other hand you could extend the contiguous Labour block to include Brent, Ealing and Hounslow councils as well.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    Brilliant New Zealand try and its over!

    I just got to half time, but thanks for the heads up ;)
  • RobD said:

    Y0kel said:

    Y0kel said:

    The circumstances around the crash of that Russian airliner are getting a bit murky.

    Whilst it is not unusual for the odd Islamic radical group to claim responsibility for a car crash in an area where they operate, never mind the downing of an airliner associated with a now sworn enemy, its hard to know how genuine such claims are.

    What actually makes it murky is some serious contradictory information from Egypt. The Russians were very fast out of the traps on the cause but the official Egyptian line appears to be somewhat countered by other statements from their own officials.



    Unless ISIS were able to plant a bomb on the aircraft,it would seem unlikely. It would require highly powerful and sophisticated missiles to bring down an a/c at 310000 feet. The Ukranian rebels had such (Buk) with their provenance coming from Russia. There does not seem to be any evidence ISIS has anything like these as well as the expertise to use them. If they did have such, there will have to be a huge realignment of airways between Europe and the Middle / Far East. 200 + dead. RIP
    The assumption is a mechanical incident but the Egyptians either don't know how to control information flow or something is going on.
    It is possible though unlikely I suppose that a mechanical incident could have caused its initial descent and making it an easier target for a shoulder launched missile. Very 'good luck' for ISIS in that instance.
    That would be an extraordinary coincidence and the more so as a controlled decent woulld enable a distress call, change transponder code and general indications of trouble. They will analyse the CVR and FDR and I expect we will get some answers. It is far from unusual for terrorist organisations to claim responsibility for accidental crashes.
    What's strange is that it was apparently descending at 5,000 ft/min. These things are designed to glide for a hundred or so miles in the event of such a failure.
    They can indeed glide for some time, if they have not experienced major failure. The absence of a detailed distress message may indicate something catastrophic ocurred quickly.

    It is dangerous to speculate, but I expect that the upset ocurred at high altitude and the aircraft probably lost control at the start of that decent. The potential data from the monitoring Flight Radar site very much depends on the quality of radar coverage in the area the a/c was in and I am not sure it is very good!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brilliant New Zealand try and its over!

    I just got to half time, but thanks for the heads up ;)
    Well I will leave out the exact scoreline then
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,909
    edited October 2015



    They can indeed glide for some time, if they have not experienced major failure. The absence of a detailed distress message may indicate something catastrophic ocurred quickly.

    It is dangerous to speculate, but I expect that the upset ocurred at high altitude and the aircraft probably lost control at the start of that decent. The potential data from the monitoring Flight Radar site very much depends on the quality of radar coverage in the area the a/c was in and I am not sure it is very good!

    Debka seems to be dismissing the idea of a mechanical failure because pictures of the wreckage indicate total destruction only consistent either with a bomb on board or a missile hit:

    http://www.debka.com/article/24987/ISIS-claims-downing-Russian-airliner-in-Sinai-in-reprisal-for-Moscow’s-Syria-air-strikes

    Anecdotally, it would appear that security at Sharm El Sheik is not the best in the world, meaning that getting hold of flight plans or access to the cargo hold are not wholly impossible scenarios.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    F1: no bet, but some musing on both on- and off-track events:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/mexico-pre-qualifying.html
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046



    They can indeed glide for some time, if they have not experienced major failure. The absence of a detailed distress message may indicate something catastrophic ocurred quickly.

    It is dangerous to speculate, but I expect that the upset ocurred at high altitude and the aircraft probably lost control at the start of that decent. The potential data from the monitoring Flight Radar site very much depends on the quality of radar coverage in the area the a/c was in and I am not sure it is very good!

    Debka seems to be dismissing the idea of a mechanical failure because pictures of the wreckage indicate total destruction only consistent either with a bomb on board or a missile hit:

    http://www.debka.com/article/24987/ISIS-claims-downing-Russian-airliner-in-Sinai-in-reprisal-for-Moscow’s-Syria-air-strikes

    Anecdotally, it would appear that security at Sharm El Sheik is not the best in the world, meaning that getting hold of flight plans or access to the cargo hold are not wholly impossible scenarios.
    If it were a bomb/missile, wouldn't the debris be scattered over several miles. Especially given whatever happened, happened at 31k feet?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brilliant New Zealand try and its over!

    I just got to half time, but thanks for the heads up ;)
    Well I will leave out the exact scoreline then
    It's OK - feel free :)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    Mr. B, I won't spoil it any event, but will you be watching the Mexican race live?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,836
    edited October 2015
    FPT @felix

    Thank you for your reply. I have to admit I'm not sure how you could cram everything that would be needed into a 35 hour week at that level, although I admire you greatly for it. I flatter myself I can work very efficiently - I completed a PhD including a vast amount of archival research in various locations in three years while holding down no fewer than five part-time jobs to pay for it, while everyone with funding (and therefore no jobs) took at least four years. But I can't quite see how I would get all the work I have to do, done, without working the hours I am at the moment.

    That being said, a lot of the stuff I am doing is hopefully one-off. So, I am having to rewrite pretty much all schemes of work because of the changes to exams: A-level History and GCSE RE this year, GCSE History next year (I've also been changing the KS3 curriculum to match, which is extra work but that should be this year only and then we will have a really good KS3 curriculum for both subjects). I am also having to prepare new resources to match and support them. I am further being more and more heavily involved by the SMT in quality monitoring across several subjects. In a way that's quite flattering, although it isn't that I am being singled out - several of us are doing it - but it does mean a lot more work.

    So if your story is a sign it gets easier, that is good news. Because I must admit I have been wondering whether I can bear to feel this exhausted all the time, much though I enjoy large parts of the job, and have been pondering other options.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brilliant New Zealand try and its over!

    I just got to half time, but thanks for the heads up ;)
    Well I will leave out the exact scoreline then
    It's OK - feel free :)
    Onto the excitements of the presentation now by Prince Harry
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,917
    I'd really like the UK to adopt an obligation to register, and an obligation to vote. I think that's what they do in Australia.

    It'd probably be dreadful in that Corbyn and co could get elected, but it just seems to me to be the better way of doing things if you're going to make the awful mistake of allowing the people to decide.

    I saw but didn't comment on the discussion the other night about the US debates. Testing policy questions perhaps weren't asked. It got me to thinking though about whether there should be some sort of hurdle in terms of understanding that those who seek elected office should need to get by. Perhaps a further top up test could be applied if that politician wished to be available to be a finance minister for example.

    Trump could finish up as the most important person on the planet. I think he's a moron. I'd be slightly more comfortable if he'd passed some sort of basic test. (In his case a demonstration of shoelace tying would help)

    Anyway this clearly isn't a new suggestion - I suspect the Greeks covered it fully. As we don't do such a thing, what are the big arguments against?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    Omnium said:

    I'd really like the UK to adopt an obligation to register, and an obligation to vote. I think that's what they do in Australia.

    It'd probably be dreadful in that Corbyn and co could get elected, but it just seems to me to be the better way of doing things if you're going to make the awful mistake of allowing the people to decide.

    I saw but didn't comment on the discussion the other night about the US debates. Testing policy questions perhaps weren't asked. It got me to thinking though about whether there should be some sort of hurdle in terms of understanding that those who seek elected office should need to get by. Perhaps a further top up test could be applied if that politician wished to be available to be a finance minister for example.

    Trump could finish up as the most important person on the planet. I think he's a moron. I'd be slightly more comfortable if he'd passed some sort of basic test. (In his case a demonstration of shoelace tying would help)

    Anyway this clearly isn't a new suggestion - I suspect the Greeks covered it fully. As we don't do such a thing, what are the big arguments against?

    I don't think it would make that much difference, the centre-right Coalition has won many times in Oz even with compulsory voting and even then almost 10% prefer to take the fine than bother to vote. Trump is a billionaire, I don't think many morons can say that!
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Mr. B, I won't spoil it any event, but will you be watching the Mexican race live?

    Probably not - it conflicts with NFL Sunday Ticket, and the Red Zone Channel: the greatest creation ever to issue from the brow of Man. I pay $300 a year for Sunday Ticket, NBC Sports is free with my basic DirecTV sub.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    Mr. B, right.

    I just hope there aren't too many safety cars, as Homeland starts at 9pm (race start is 7pm UK time).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,535
    RobD said:

    What's strange is that it was apparently descending at 5,000 ft/min. These things are designed to glide for a hundred or so miles in the event of such a failure.

    Wreckage has also been known to 'fly'. From memory, the flight that blew up in the mid-1990s over the ocean near New York from a fuel tank explosion was a case in point: the nose and forward fuselage came off, whilst the engines powered the rest of the plane along, and actually climbed slightly. Vague and possibly incorrect memory has the same happening to a slight degree at Lockerbie,

    Or an in-flight decompression, followed by a descent to lower levels that was interrupted by break-up before they could get a message out.

    Remember the emergency checklist:
    Aviate, navigate, investigate, communicate, secure.

    One of my hobbies is reading rail/air/marine accident reports, and there have been all sorts of weirdness in the way planes break up or fail at altitude, and the way debris spreads. It's early days, but it would be interesting to know if the reported descent rate was from primary radar returns on wreckage or on-plane transponder.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,836
    HYUFD said:


    I don't think it would make that much difference, the centre-right Coalition has won many times in Oz even with compulsory voting and even then almost 10% prefer to take the fine than bother to vote. Trump is a billionaire, I don't think many morons can say that!

    Although it's always fairly useful if your father is also worth millions and gives you the money to start off. I don't think Fred Trump ever had to seek Chapter 11 protection either.

    Rupert Murdoch (or James Murdoch) spring to mind as similar cases.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046

    RobD said:

    What's strange is that it was apparently descending at 5,000 ft/min. These things are designed to glide for a hundred or so miles in the event of such a failure.

    Wreckage has also been known to 'fly'. From memory, the flight that blew up in the mid-1990s over the ocean near New York from a fuel tank explosion was a case in point: the nose and forward fuselage came off, whilst the engines powered the rest of the plane along, and actually climbed slightly. Vague and possibly incorrect memory has the same happening to a slight degree at Lockerbie,

    Or an in-flight decompression, followed by a descent to lower levels that was interrupted by break-up before they could get a message out.

    Remember the emergency checklist:
    Aviate, navigate, investigate, communicate, secure.

    One of my hobbies is reading rail/air/marine accident reports, and there have been all sorts of weirdness in the way planes break up or fail at altitude, and the way debris spreads. It's early days, but it would be interesting to know if the reported descent rate was from primary radar returns on wreckage or on-plane transponder.
    Yes, I remember reading that particular report about the flight from New York. Quite harrowing, but you have to assume the passengers were rendered unconscious by the sheer force of the wind.

    I wasn't clear in my post, I was referring to the ability for them to glide after an engine failure in particular, rather than any failure.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited October 2015
    HYUFD said:

    I'd really like the UK to adopt an obligation to register ...

    You do know, I am sure, that it was in the days of household registration a criminal offence not to fill out and return the forms. I don't know whether that offence was removed when individual registration was brought in, but in any case whilst it was on the books it had no discernable effect.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,917
    On the plane disaster.

    ISIS are basically saying Islam kills. It's becoming increasingly hard to maintain the idea Muslims are not a dangerous sect. To their own believers mainly. Some sort of general religion-wide 'be nice' message is clearly in order. If the Muslims of the world did just 1 day of being nice to everyone then it'd undo a thousand years of dopeyness.


  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:


    I don't think it would make that much difference, the centre-right Coalition has won many times in Oz even with compulsory voting and even then almost 10% prefer to take the fine than bother to vote. Trump is a billionaire, I don't think many morons can say that!

    Although it's always fairly useful if your father is also worth millions and gives you the money to start off. I don't think Fred Trump ever had to seek Chapter 11 protection either.

    Rupert Murdoch (or James Murdoch) spring to mind as similar cases.
    Maybe but if you were a real moron you would lose any money you inherited not increase it
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Still watching the rugby - 53 minutes in. This Nigel Owens guy is a really good official. Really thick accent but good and thorough.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Mr. B, right.

    I just hope there aren't too many safety cars, as Homeland starts at 9pm (race start is 7pm UK time).

    Mexico City is on central time, so an hour behind me, on Eastern time. As if that's not complex enough, daylight savings time ends tonight and clocks go back, so I might be on the same time as them tomorrow.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,836
    edited October 2015
    RobD said:

    What's strange is that it was apparently descending at 5,000 ft/min. These things are designed to glide for a hundred or so miles in the event of such a failure.

    Surely that would depend on the height? I think the Gimli Glider achieved about 2.5 miles for every 1,000 feet, but that had an experienced glider pilot on board. If it was at 31,000 feet, therefore, at optimum it might manage 90-95 75-80 miles, otherwise, more likely, it would go down more rapidly.

    It might also depend on whether the pilot thought a dive might help in some way. I can't think how it would, although on old WWI aircraft a stopped propellor could be re-started by wind pressure during a steep dive, but I know very little about modern commercial aircraft so I suppose there could be something.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    edited October 2015
    May favourite to lead the EU Out campaign in new Survation poll for LeaveEU followed by Farage with Boris third.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3297628/Theresa-public-s-choice-lead-EU-campaign.html
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:


    I don't think it would make that much difference, the centre-right Coalition has won many times in Oz even with compulsory voting and even then almost 10% prefer to take the fine than bother to vote. Trump is a billionaire, I don't think many morons can say that!

    Although it's always fairly useful if your father is also worth millions and gives you the money to start off. I don't think Fred Trump ever had to seek Chapter 11 protection either.

    Rupert Murdoch (or James Murdoch) spring to mind as similar cases.
    Maybe but if you were a real moron you would lose any money you inherited not increase it
    I could be just be a hopeless pedant, but is there any other kind of moron but a 'real' one?
  • We share a very special bond with the Aussies and the Kiwis. I wish we could make more of it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,421
    No doubt New Zealand were a class apart this tournament. I'd have to fancy the Boks over the Wallabies though if they played tommorow.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Red pencils at the ready: Jeremy Corbyn COLOURING BOOK goes on sale as left-wing publishing enjoys a winter of content

    Book by illustrator James Nunn features Labour leader in many poses
    Images reference the Mona Lisa, the Creation of Adam, and story of Moses
    Follows a craze both in adult colouring-in and spike in Left-wing book sales

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3298264/Red-pencils-ready-Jeremy-Corbyn-COLOURING-BOOK-goes-sale-left-wing-publishing-enjoys-winter-content.html#ixzz3qAjfjHwT
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,535
    Omnium said:

    On the plane disaster.

    ISIS are basically saying Islam kills. It's becoming increasingly hard to maintain the idea Muslims are not a dangerous sect. To their own believers mainly. Some sort of general religion-wide 'be nice' message is clearly in order. If the Muslims of the world did just 1 day of being nice to everyone then it'd undo a thousand years of dopeyness.


    To add to this: in some countries you shouldn't even write about secularism:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-34688245
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    What's strange is that it was apparently descending at 5,000 ft/min. These things are designed to glide for a hundred or so miles in the event of such a failure.

    Surely that would depend on the height? I think the Gimli Glider achieved about 2.5 miles for every 1,000 feet, but that had an experienced glider pilot on board. If it was at 31,000 feet, therefore, at optimum it might manage 90-95 75-80 miles, otherwise, more likely, it would go down more rapidly.

    It might also depend on whether the pilot thought a dive might help in some way. I can't think how it would, although on old WWI aircraft a stopped propellor could be re-started by wind pressure during a steep dive, but I know very little about modern commercial aircraft so I suppose there could be something.
    I think putting the nose down would be helpful to recover from a stall. That is what the co pilot on the Air France plane that crashed in the Atlantic failed to do. By the time the captain realised the co-pilot had been pulling up the entire time, it was too late.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    I am still watching the rugby, and the camera work is just awful.

    They actually have a guy running up and down the sideline with a handheld camera - have they never heard of a Chapman Crane?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    Mr. Jessop, I believe the subject of atheist/secular bloggers in Bangladesh was featured in one of the non-rolling news slots on the BBC News Channel a few weeks ago.

    It's pathetically vindictive in its backwardness.

    Quarter of an hour until radio coverage of qualifying begins.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059

    We share a very special bond with the Aussies and the Kiwis. I wish we could make more of it.

    Well we share a Queen!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:


    I don't think it would make that much difference, the centre-right Coalition has won many times in Oz even with compulsory voting and even then almost 10% prefer to take the fine than bother to vote. Trump is a billionaire, I don't think many morons can say that!

    Although it's always fairly useful if your father is also worth millions and gives you the money to start off. I don't think Fred Trump ever had to seek Chapter 11 protection either.

    Rupert Murdoch (or James Murdoch) spring to mind as similar cases.
    Maybe but if you were a real moron you would lose any money you inherited not increase it
    I could be just be a hopeless pedant, but is there any other kind of moron but a 'real' one?
    Generally normal with some moronic traits, semi moron, complete moron?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046

    We share a very special bond with the Aussies and the Kiwis. I wish we could make more of it.

    It may only be a tiniest of tiny gestures, but there was a proposal to put a separate lane for Commonwealth realms when coming into our airports. I quite liked that, but I don't think it made it.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    We share a very special bond with the Aussies and the Kiwis. I wish we could make more of it.

    Well we share a Queen!
    Exactly - who doesn't like Elton John or Ian McKellen?
  • This is something we were discussing on here a few nights ago. Potentially a perfect storm as council cuts and living wage requirement meet to put a mighty spanner in the works of social care and ultimately the NHS

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/31/care-homes-crisis-dwarf-steel-industry-problems-four-seasons-terra-firma
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:


    I don't think it would make that much difference, the centre-right Coalition has won many times in Oz even with compulsory voting and even then almost 10% prefer to take the fine than bother to vote. Trump is a billionaire, I don't think many morons can say that!

    Although it's always fairly useful if your father is also worth millions and gives you the money to start off. I don't think Fred Trump ever had to seek Chapter 11 protection either.

    Rupert Murdoch (or James Murdoch) spring to mind as similar cases.
    Maybe but if you were a real moron you would lose any money you inherited not increase it
    I could be just be a hopeless pedant, but is there any other kind of moron but a 'real' one?
    Generally normal with some moronic traits, semi moron, complete moron?
    An incomplete moron? Bay City Rollers fan?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    edited October 2015
    RobD said:



    They can indeed glide for some time, if they have not experienced major failure. The absence of a detailed distress message may indicate something catastrophic ocurred quickly.

    It is dangerous to speculate, but I expect that the upset ocurred at high altitude and the aircraft probably lost control at the start of that decent. The potential data from the monitoring Flight Radar site very much depends on the quality of radar coverage in the area the a/c was in and I am not sure it is very good!

    Debka seems to be dismissing the idea of a mechanical failure because pictures of the wreckage indicate total destruction only consistent either with a bomb on board or a missile hit:

    http://www.debka.com/article/24987/ISIS-claims-downing-Russian-airliner-in-Sinai-in-reprisal-for-Moscow’s-Syria-air-strikes

    Anecdotally, it would appear that security at Sharm El Sheik is not the best in the world, meaning that getting hold of flight plans or access to the cargo hold are not wholly impossible scenarios.
    If it were a bomb/missile, wouldn't the debris be scattered over several miles. Especially given whatever happened, happened at 31k feet?
    the pprune guys are about as agreed on this as we are on the ideal composition and selection of the upper house.

    That said, they usually get it right before too long, pretty much, given the expertise there and the iterative process they go through as more data become available.

    Oh that we could say the same about our conclusions on the upper house, AV, etc, etc, etc...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,535
    It's not been talked about on here that I've seen, but it's Turkey's second election of the year tomorrow.

    A worrying time, for all sorts of reasons.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/31/turkey-elections-stability-security-

    As polls are not allowed immediately before elections in Turkey, and there's been lots going on domestically, I've literally no idea how big the difference between the ruling AKP and the opposition CHP will be. Will it be enough to deny Erdogan and the AKP sole power again? And if so, will Erdogan go for a third election within a year, or try for an unprecedented coalition with the CHP?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:


    I don't think it would make that much difference, the centre-right Coalition has won many times in Oz even with compulsory voting and even then almost 10% prefer to take the fine than bother to vote. Trump is a billionaire, I don't think many morons can say that!

    Although it's always fairly useful if your father is also worth millions and gives you the money to start off. I don't think Fred Trump ever had to seek Chapter 11 protection either.

    Rupert Murdoch (or James Murdoch) spring to mind as similar cases.
    Maybe but if you were a real moron you would lose any money you inherited not increase it
    I could be just be a hopeless pedant, but is there any other kind of moron but a 'real' one?
    Generally normal with some moronic traits, semi moron, complete moron?
    An incomplete moron? Bay City Rollers fan?
    Yes, that sounds like it
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    edited October 2015
    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:


    I don't think it would make that much difference, the centre-right Coalition has won many times in Oz even with compulsory voting and even then almost 10% prefer to take the fine than bother to vote. Trump is a billionaire, I don't think many morons can say that!

    Although it's always fairly useful if your father is also worth millions and gives you the money to start off. I don't think Fred Trump ever had to seek Chapter 11 protection either.

    Rupert Murdoch (or James Murdoch) spring to mind as similar cases.
    Maybe but if you were a real moron you would lose any money you inherited not increase it
    I could be just be a hopeless pedant, but is there any other kind of moron but a 'real' one?
    Generally normal with some moronic traits, semi moron, complete moron?
    Reminded me of that bit from Alan Partridge. "We're asking, what is the worst monger? Iron, fish... rumour... or war?" :D
  • Tim_B said:

    I am still watching the rugby, and the camera work is just awful.

    They actually have a guy running up and down the sideline with a handheld camera - have they never heard of a Chapman Crane?

    Totally agree about the camera angles, especially during the Haka. They even missed the fireworks for goodness sake.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    We share a very special bond with the Aussies and the Kiwis. I wish we could make more of it.

    Well we share a Queen!
    Exactly - who doesn't like Elton John or Ian McKellen?
    Indeed or Dame Edna
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    edited October 2015
    F1: problems for Button. Signal issues with his car mean he won't be driving in qualifying. On the other hand, changing his engine thrice (or possibly four times) means he'd be at the back of the grid anyway.

    Edited extra bit: it's also possible that Raikkonen will not qualify. I think he had engine problem in P3.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    Mr. Jessop, Erdogan's bloody dodgy.

    Saw on the news the other day how his government thugs closed down two TV stations that had been critical of his party.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    F1: problems for Button. Signal issues with his car mean he won't be driving in qualifying. On the other hand, changing his engine thrice (or possibly four times) means he'd be at the back of the grid anyway.

    I was quite amazed to find out recently that an F1 car transmits about 50 gigabytes of telemetry in an average F1 race.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    edited October 2015
    Surely it would have been easier to organise Lab Peers for another 15 minutes - in which case the Govt would have lost the vote.

    The Govt did lose the vote 15 mins earlier on the Lab amendment to the LD fatal motion - by 10 votes.

    15 mins later (literally - there was no debate at all in between - the LD motion was moved 10 seconds after the result of the vote on the Lab amendment) - the Govt won the vote on the LD fatal motion - by 11 votes.

    21 Peers disappeared at the crucial moment - including 11 Lab and 2 LD.

    Every single Con Peer who was there stayed for the second vote - indeed 2 more voted on the 2nd vote.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    We share a very special bond with the Aussies and the Kiwis. I wish we could make more of it.

    Well we share a Queen!
    Exactly - who doesn't like Elton John or Ian McKellen?
    Indeed or Dame Edna
    Wave your gladdies!!!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    Mr. B, I was surprised by that too.

    Mildly surprised, even so, he can't go out for qualifying, but perhaps there's a safety issue regarding things like brake temperatures.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    MikeL said:

    Surely it would have been easier to organise Lab Peers for another 15 minutes - in which case the Govt would have lost the vote.

    The Govt did lose the vote 15 mins earlier on the Lab amendment to the LD fatal motion - by 10 votes.

    15 mins later (literally - there was no debate at all in between - the LD motion was moved 10 seconds after the result of the vote on the Lab amendment) - the Govt won the vote on the LD fatal motion - by 11 votes.

    21 Peers disappeared at the crucial moment - including 11 Lab and 2 LD.

    I suspect some decided to sit on their hands for constitutional reasons.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    Surely it would have been easier to organise Lab Peers for another 15 minutes - in which case the Govt would have lost the vote.

    The Govt did lose the vote 15 mins earlier on the Lab amendment to the LD fatal motion - by 10 votes.

    15 mins later (literally - there was no debate at all in between - the LD motion was moved 10 seconds after the result of the vote on the Lab amendment) - the Govt won the vote on the LD fatal motion - by 11 votes.

    21 Peers disappeared at the crucial moment - including 11 Lab and 2 LD.

    I suspect some decided to sit on their hands for constitutional reasons.
    I very much doubt that - some Peers almost always leave after the 1st vote - and with the Electoral Commission advice they had every reason to vote.

    They didn't sit on their hands in the last Parliament when they got the previous Boundary review cancelled.

    No question - this was a straightforward cock-up.

    The Con whips have done an astonishing job this week - the turnout of Con Peers on both Mon and Tue was absolutely extraordinary.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,836
    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    Surely it would have been easier to organise Lab Peers for another 15 minutes - in which case the Govt would have lost the vote.

    The Govt did lose the vote 15 mins earlier on the Lab amendment to the LD fatal motion - by 10 votes.

    15 mins later (literally - there was no debate at all in between - the LD motion was moved 10 seconds after the result of the vote on the Lab amendment) - the Govt won the vote on the LD fatal motion - by 11 votes.

    21 Peers disappeared at the crucial moment - including 11 Lab and 2 LD.

    I suspect some decided to sit on their hands for constitutional reasons.
    That sounds like an impressively complicated euphemism for a toilet break.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    MikeL said:

    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    Surely it would have been easier to organise Lab Peers for another 15 minutes - in which case the Govt would have lost the vote.

    The Govt did lose the vote 15 mins earlier on the Lab amendment to the LD fatal motion - by 10 votes.

    15 mins later (literally - there was no debate at all in between - the LD motion was moved 10 seconds after the result of the vote on the Lab amendment) - the Govt won the vote on the LD fatal motion - by 11 votes.

    21 Peers disappeared at the crucial moment - including 11 Lab and 2 LD.

    I suspect some decided to sit on their hands for constitutional reasons.
    I very much doubt that - some Peers almost always leave after the 1st vote - and with the Electoral Commission advice they had every reason to vote.

    They didn't sit on their hands in the last Parliament when they got the previous Boundary review cancelled.

    No question - this was a straightforward cock-up.

    The Con whips have done an astonishing job this week - the turnout of Con Peers on both Mon and Tue was absolutely extraordinary.
    Hm, maybe two government defeats in as many days wouldn't be so hot for their job prospects?

    Very efficient whipping by the Tories though. We can let attrition take care of the number of Lib peers. Does anyone have a histogram of their ages? :D
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    Surely it would have been easier to organise Lab Peers for another 15 minutes - in which case the Govt would have lost the vote.

    The Govt did lose the vote 15 mins earlier on the Lab amendment to the LD fatal motion - by 10 votes.

    15 mins later (literally - there was no debate at all in between - the LD motion was moved 10 seconds after the result of the vote on the Lab amendment) - the Govt won the vote on the LD fatal motion - by 11 votes.

    21 Peers disappeared at the crucial moment - including 11 Lab and 2 LD.

    I suspect some decided to sit on their hands for constitutional reasons.
    That sounds like an impressively complicated euphemism for a toilet break.
    Well, we are talking about their most noble lord (and lady)-ships.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,917
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    Surely it would have been easier to organise Lab Peers for another 15 minutes - in which case the Govt would have lost the vote.

    The Govt did lose the vote 15 mins earlier on the Lab amendment to the LD fatal motion - by 10 votes.

    15 mins later (literally - there was no debate at all in between - the LD motion was moved 10 seconds after the result of the vote on the Lab amendment) - the Govt won the vote on the LD fatal motion - by 11 votes.

    21 Peers disappeared at the crucial moment - including 11 Lab and 2 LD.

    I suspect some decided to sit on their hands for constitutional reasons.
    That sounds like an impressively complicated euphemism for a toilet break.
    A rather ill conceived one perhaps.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,836
    Good grief, not another:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34688851

    If the mobile phone industry does not come up with somewhat security protocols on an industry wide basis following this, we should all refuse to pay them until they do.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    F1: apparently early spots of rain in Q1. If it starts properly, could mix things up nicely.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,917
    ydoethur said:

    Good grief, not another:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34688851

    If the mobile phone industry does not come up with somewhat security protocols on an industry wide basis following this, we should all refuse to pay them until they do.

    The PB.com scandal will break next!

    2,000 PB regulars bank accounts said to have been raided. Over 45p stolen!



  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,836
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Good grief, not another:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34688851

    If the mobile phone industry does not come up with somewhat security protocols on an industry wide basis following this, we should all refuse to pay them until they do.

    The PB.com scandal will break next!

    2,000 PB regulars bank accounts said to have been raided. Over 45p stolen!
    :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    We share a very special bond with the Aussies and the Kiwis. I wish we could make more of it.

    Well we share a Queen!
    Exactly - who doesn't like Elton John or Ian McKellen?
    Indeed or Dame Edna
    Wave your gladdies!!!
    Yes she is classic
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,917

    F1: apparently early spots of rain in Q1. If it starts properly, could mix things up nicely.

    MD, I admire greatly your dedication to the sport. It's bloody hard work at the moment though isn't it? The edginess has gone for me, at least for the time being.

    I suspect the worldwide audience is turning off in their millions. (Probably not the case though)
  • ydoethur said:

    Good grief, not another:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34688851

    If the mobile phone industry does not come up with somewhat security protocols on an industry wide basis following this, we should all refuse to pay them until they do.

    Effectively someone just attempted to apply the data from another breach.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    edited October 2015
    Mr. Omnium, as far as I'm aware, audience numbers are indeed declining.

    The Texas race was greatly entertaining, but the general predominance of Hamilton/Mercedes and the unfairness of the finance/engine development/governance, as well as losing classic European tracks to go racing (sometimes in dodgy places with dreary tracks) is losing the sport popularity. That, and shifting to pay TV.

    Must admit, I've been considering not bothering with the blogs (for F1) next year. I'm not fussed by audience/number of clicks, but I miss 2012 when the first seven races had seven different winners.

    Edited extra bit: and Tom Clarkson is bloody irritating.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Let's talk about more serious stuff. When is Rooney going to be dropped ?

    We have the best striker in the world playing on the left flank.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    Mr. Surbiton, how very dare you?

    F1 *is* serious stuff.
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