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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » An armed coup if Boris or Corbyn became PM? An extraordinar

SystemSystem Posts: 12,221
edited October 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » An armed coup if Boris or Corbyn became PM? An extraordinarily large number of people say it would have their support

44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK pic.twitter.com/hegZLZkFVs

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,994
    edited October 2015
    I find it totes amazeballs that a poll like was needed to be/was commissioned.

    I find the results of this poll equally totes amazeballs.

    But the Ireland v Argentina rugby is even more totes amazeballs.

    Over you to Scotland to stop an all Southern Hemisphere semis.
  • Eh_ehm_a_ehEh_ehm_a_eh Posts: 552
    Surely time for a coup to rescue this world cup from southern hemisphere ali babas
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited October 2015
    lefties complain on here day in and out but......The main problem is that to change anything, tax credits, public sector, Syria etc etc. Labour have to get into power. to do this they need a credible replacement government and effective policies. They will not seen to be credible with an almost 50% number of people thinking chaos would ensure if they were in power.

    The left wing electing a pair of total fruit loops more interested in CND and the IRA is not going to achieve power so they are relegated to the sidelines by their very own hand and extreme ideology and yet if they make it extreme measures are even considered possible. stunning really.

    No more than some of the left though with get the Tories out anyway you can.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,716
    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    fpt SeanT said:
    " I am equally puzzled.
    It would be helpful if Nick would explain. Was he deluded, or lying (surely not), or was he fooled by shy Tories, like, perhaps, the pollsters?"

    Dear SeanT - Nick plays the game Diplomacy. That is built on persuading people that you will not attack them, and then you do.....
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,143
    edited October 2015
    FPT. Thanks Nick - always interesting to hear of other's approaches to canvassing. I think the efficiency of someone on the board may be key. My other objection to running the board is the need to actually say out loud the VI given, in the street. It just seems a little unsubtle to me....
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    An indication of how useless opinion polls are?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    That the question was even asked tells you everything you need to know.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I find it totes amazeballs that a poll like was needed to be/was commissioned.

    I find the results of this poll equally totes amazeballs.

    But the Ireland v Argentina rugby is even more totes amazeballs.

    Over you to Scotland to stop an all Southern Hemisphere semis.

    You do realise who Scotland are playing?? Make no mistake - I hope Scotland win. It will be hilarious to watch the Aussie reaction. But do we expect Scotland to be able to score a try?
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    "Banned from the bookies

    Campaigners are calling for the gambling authorities in the UK to force bookmakers to accept all bets up to a limit - a move which has recently been imposed on bookmakers in Australia"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34550617
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited October 2015
    FPT HYUFD "Indeed and I doubt it would ever be universal but encouraging people to have an insurance policy to cover social care is far better than seeing them exhaust all their savings"

    Hmmm. An insurance policy where once you reach 65 you have a 1 in 3 chance of going into care, a period that on average lasts 3 years and will cost circa £50k pa = 1 in 3 chance of a £150k bill. So a couple could be said to face a 2 in 3 chance of a £150k bill.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    I'd be curious how many of those who said No to the first question above would then go on to say Yes to the abolish the armed forces question.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Tells you all you need to know about taking any online poll seriously ever.

    Utter waste of time and effort.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    edited October 2015
    MarkHopkins said:

    "Banned from the bookies

    Campaigners are calling for the gambling authorities in the UK to force bookmakers to accept all bets up to a limit - a move which has recently been imposed on bookmakers in Australia"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34550617

    Is there a petition we can all sign, and if not should we ask Mike to set one up and call in the programme with a punter's viewpoint?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    fpt SeanT said:
    " I am equally puzzled.
    It would be helpful if Nick would explain. Was he deluded, or lying (surely not), or was he fooled by shy Tories, like, perhaps, the pollsters?"

    Dear SeanT - Nick plays the game Diplomacy. That is built on persuading people that you will not attack them, and then you do.....

    Actually, Mr. Betting, real success in the game of Diplomacy comes in persuading people that you haven't attacked them when, in fact, you not only have but you also have your forces sitting in their home centres. Andy Cooke, now only an occasional gent of this parish, was/is the master of the art.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Oz to win by 13+ at 5/8 is free money.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    flightpath01 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I find it totes amazeballs that a poll like was needed to be/was commissioned.

    I find the results of this poll equally totes amazeballs.

    But the Ireland v Argentina rugby is even more totes amazeballs.

    Over you to Scotland to stop an all Southern Hemisphere semis.

    You do realise who Scotland are playing?? Make no mistake - I hope Scotland win. It will be hilarious to watch the Aussie reaction. But do we expect Scotland to be able to score a try?
    Argentina have a better chance of beating Australia next Sunday than Scotland do this afternoon
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tamcohen: Ireland v Argentina. I wonder which side Jeremy Corbyn's supporting...?
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Afternoon all.

    A silly polling question will always get a silly reply – On the other hand, knowing how many luvvies would abandon the UK if Bojo became PM would be very entertaining…
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,842
    flightpath01 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I find it totes amazeballs that a poll like was needed to be/was commissioned.

    I find the results of this poll equally totes amazeballs.

    But the Ireland v Argentina rugby is even more totes amazeballs.

    Over you to Scotland to stop an all Southern Hemisphere semis.

    You do realise who Scotland are playing?? Make no mistake - I hope Scotland win. It will be hilarious to watch the Aussie reaction. But do we expect Scotland to be able to score a try?
    I wouldn't be surprised to see the Aussies put 50 points on them.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    I can imagine any number of scenarios in which I could support a military government. What I cannot do is imagine the armed forces ever staging the coup necessary to bring one about. The UK military mind just does not work that way, not least because their loyalty is to the Crown and not the government or the "people".
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    david_herdson said:

    flightpath01 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I find it totes amazeballs that a poll like was needed to be/was commissioned.

    I find the results of this poll equally totes amazeballs.

    But the Ireland v Argentina rugby is even more totes amazeballs.

    Over you to Scotland to stop an all Southern Hemisphere semis.

    You do realise who Scotland are playing?? Make no mistake - I hope Scotland win. It will be hilarious to watch the Aussie reaction. But do we expect Scotland to be able to score a try?
    I wouldn't be surprised to see the Aussies put 50 points on them.
    14 point handicap is a joke. Scotland haven't played anyone decent bar Saffers who pounded them.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    HurstLlama said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    fpt SeanT said:
    " I am equally puzzled.
    It would be helpful if Nick would explain. Was he deluded, or lying (surely not), or was he fooled by shy Tories, like, perhaps, the pollsters?"

    Dear SeanT - Nick plays the game Diplomacy. That is built on persuading people that you will not attack them, and then you do.....

    Actually, Mr. Betting, real success in the game of Diplomacy comes in persuading people that you haven't attacked them when, in fact, you not only have but you also have your forces sitting in their home centres. Andy Cooke, now only an occasional gent of this parish, was/is the master of the art.
    Basically deception. So why trust what some player says about their canvassing returns?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,994
    I'm backing Scotland to win this.

    I feel it in my waters.

    Remember the spirit of 1990.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    This is not going to end well for Watson.... Hopefully.

    Witnesses at centre of VIP sex abuse allegations had attended charity accused of using controversial counselling which can create false memories

    Two witnesses championed by Tom Watson supported by Lantern Project
    Charity uses 'unstructured therapeutic disclosure' to support victims
    Counsellors tell patients about their own experience of sexual abuse
    Experts warn that the technique should set 'major alarm bells' ringing
    Ex-head of Flying Squad accuses Watson of smearing political opponents


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3277840/False-memories-fears-controversial-techniques-used-charity-supporting-Watson-s-abuse-victims.html#ixzz3ovfKhXY9
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    Or indeed a complete corruption of the mechanisms in place to hold the government accountable (i.e. both the judiciary and democracy) such that the individuals in government held themselves above the law and the public could no longer remove the government by a free and fair popular vote.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    HurstLlama said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    fpt SeanT said:
    " I am equally puzzled.
    It would be helpful if Nick would explain. Was he deluded, or lying (surely not), or was he fooled by shy Tories, like, perhaps, the pollsters?"

    Dear SeanT - Nick plays the game Diplomacy. That is built on persuading people that you will not attack them, and then you do.....

    Actually, Mr. Betting, real success in the game of Diplomacy comes in persuading people that you haven't attacked them when, in fact, you not only have but you also have your forces sitting in their home centres. Andy Cooke, now only an occasional gent of this parish, was/is the master of the art.
    Basically deception. So why trust what some player says about their canvassing returns?
    Context? I would never trust Andy Cooke (or Nick Palmer) in a game of Diplomacy yet I would, without hesitation, trust him with the life of my son, my wife, my money and my malt.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Moses_ said:

    This is not going to end well for Watson.... Hopefully.

    Witnesses at centre of VIP sex abuse allegations had attended charity accused of using controversial counselling which can create false memories

    Two witnesses championed by Tom Watson supported by Lantern Project
    Charity uses 'unstructured therapeutic disclosure' to support victims
    Counsellors tell patients about their own experience of sexual abuse
    Experts warn that the technique should set 'major alarm bells' ringing
    Ex-head of Flying Squad accuses Watson of smearing political opponents


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3277840/False-memories-fears-controversial-techniques-used-charity-supporting-Watson-s-abuse-victims.html#ixzz3ovfKhXY9

    Any result that puts the odious Watson in his place is to be applauded.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,842
    MTimT said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    Or indeed a complete corruption of the mechanisms in place to hold the government accountable (i.e. both the judiciary and democracy) such that the individuals in government held themselves above the law and the public could no longer remove the government by a free and fair popular vote.
    That is more valid. More politicians canalways be found if some are killed and the constitution is flexible enough to provide for their appointment as necessary. If, however, the whole system is corrupt and cannot be overturned by the public then extrademocratic measures become valid.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,994
    Wasn't there going to be a coup when Harold Wilson was PM.

    With Lord Mountbatten as our PM.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    JEO said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
    In general an attack that has killed the PM and the cabinet would involve an active military threat. That's just an example of where terrorists have come disturbingly close.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    FPT HYUFD "Indeed and I doubt it would ever be universal but encouraging people to have an insurance policy to cover social care is far better than seeing them exhaust all their savings"

    Hmmm. An insurance policy where once you reach 65 you have a 1 in 3 chance of going into care, a period that on average lasts 3 years and will cost circa £50k pa = 1 in 3 chance of a £150k bill. So a couple could be said to face a 2 in 3 chance of a £150k bill.

    Yes and if the did not take out insurance they would be paying that bill out of savings, so certainly once you reach 70+ sensible to take out an annuity for care
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
    In general an attack that has killed the PM and the cabinet would involve an active military threat. That's just an example of where terrorists have come disturbingly close.
    Doesn't the speaker take over in that situation? If they can of course. No doubt there would be a unity government as politics are placed to one side. Well there would have been but of course Corbyn is now LOTO.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    HYUFD said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    FPT HYUFD "Indeed and I doubt it would ever be universal but encouraging people to have an insurance policy to cover social care is far better than seeing them exhaust all their savings"

    Hmmm. An insurance policy where once you reach 65 you have a 1 in 3 chance of going into care, a period that on average lasts 3 years and will cost circa £50k pa = 1 in 3 chance of a £150k bill. So a couple could be said to face a 2 in 3 chance of a £150k bill.

    Yes and if the did not take out insurance they would be paying that bill out of savings, so certainly once you reach 70+ sensible to take out an annuity for care
    How much would an annuity that paid out £36,500 (index linked to nursing home fees not CPI) per annum for an indefinite period cost?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Moses_ said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
    In general an attack that has killed the PM and the cabinet would involve an active military threat. That's just an example of where terrorists have come disturbingly close.
    Doesn't the speaker take over in that situation? If they can of course. No doubt there would be a unity government as politics are placed to one side. Well there would have been but of course Corbyn is now LOTO.
    A foreign nation declares war on the UK by launching a missile that takes out Parliament during the state opening of Parliament. The monarch, Lords and Commons are all killed. We're now at war with no politicians and no monarch, who takes over?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,421
    HurstLlama said:

    HYUFD said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    FPT HYUFD "Indeed and I doubt it would ever be universal but encouraging people to have an insurance policy to cover social care is far better than seeing them exhaust all their savings"

    Hmmm. An insurance policy where once you reach 65 you have a 1 in 3 chance of going into care, a period that on average lasts 3 years and will cost circa £50k pa = 1 in 3 chance of a £150k bill. So a couple could be said to face a 2 in 3 chance of a £150k bill.

    Yes and if the did not take out insurance they would be paying that bill out of savings, so certainly once you reach 70+ sensible to take out an annuity for care
    How much would an annuity that paid out £36,500 (index linked to nursing home fees not CPI) per annum for an indefinite period cost?
    I'll start the bidding at a million quid :D
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    I like Newcastle and under 2.5... So maybe 1-0 2-0 Newcastle?
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited October 2015
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Moses_ said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
    In general an attack that has killed the PM and the cabinet would involve an active military threat. That's just an example of where terrorists have come disturbingly close.
    Doesn't the speaker take over in that situation? If they can of course. No doubt there would be a unity government as politics are placed to one side. Well there would have been but of course Corbyn is now LOTO.
    A foreign nation declares war on the UK by launching a missile that takes out Parliament during the state opening of Parliament. The monarch, Lords and Commons are all killed. We're now at war with no politicians and no monarch, who takes over?
    Alan Sugar?
    Edit - don't all the top military brass attend state openings as well?
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I'm backing Scotland to win this.

    I feel it in my waters.

    Remember the spirit of 1990.

    Was that when Braveheart was released?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,535
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Moses_ said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
    In general an attack that has killed the PM and the cabinet would involve an active military threat. That's just an example of where terrorists have come disturbingly close.
    Doesn't the speaker take over in that situation? If they can of course. No doubt there would be a unity government as politics are placed to one side. Well there would have been but of course Corbyn is now LOTO.
    A foreign nation declares war on the UK by launching a missile that takes out Parliament during the state opening of Parliament. The monarch, Lords and Commons are all killed. We're now at war with no politicians and no monarch, who takes over?
    A British Jack Ryan ?

    http://www.amazon.com/Executive-Orders-Jack-Ryan-Novel/dp/0425158632
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    edited October 2015
    One of the beauties of our constitution, is the guy who thinks he's in charge, the Prime Minister, isnt. He has a boss. And that person is the person every councillor, every civil servant, every soldier, every member of parliament, every judge, every magistrate, every police officer swears allegiance to on taking office.

    While I am sure some take it with their fingers crossed, many however, will take it with great seriousness:
    "I, (name), do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God"

    I've long thought that if a situation occurred, unlikely though it is, in which push came to shove, and there was a conflict between the Government and the Queen, there would be no hesitation as to which side the forces of the crown would get behind. And it wouldnt be the Government.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Twice. Brighton bombing and mortar on Downing St
    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
    In general an attack that has killed the PM and the cabinet would involve an active military threat. That's just an example of where terrorists have come disturbingly close.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    HurstLlama said:

    HYUFD said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    FPT HYUFD "Indeed and I doubt it would ever be universal but encouraging people to have an insurance policy to cover social care is far better than seeing them exhaust all their savings"

    Hmmm. An insurance policy where once you reach 65 you have a 1 in 3 chance of going into care, a period that on average lasts 3 years and will cost circa £50k pa = 1 in 3 chance of a £150k bill. So a couple could be said to face a 2 in 3 chance of a £150k bill.

    Yes and if the did not take out insurance they would be paying that bill out of savings, so certainly once you reach 70+ sensible to take out an annuity for care
    How much would an annuity that paid out £36,500 (index linked to nursing home fees not CPI) per annum for an indefinite period cost?
    The average cost of an immediate need annuity plan is £69,000 so significantly less
    https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/immediate-need-care-fee-payment-plans
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Wings over Bath is getting schooled by Andrew Neil on Twitter - most amusing.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    JosiasJessop said:


    A British Jack Ryan ?

    http://www.amazon.com/Executive-Orders-Jack-Ryan-Novel/dp/0425158632

    "The President is dead--and the weight, literally, of the world falls on Jack Ryan's shoulders, in Tom Clancy's newest and most extraordinary novel."

    If the weight of the world literally fell on Jack Ryan's shoulders, I imagine it would be a fairly short book.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Moses_ said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
    In general an attack that has killed the PM and the cabinet would involve an active military threat. That's just an example of where terrorists have come disturbingly close.
    Doesn't the speaker take over in that situation? If they can of course. No doubt there would be a unity government as politics are placed to one side. Well there would have been but of course Corbyn is now LOTO.
    A foreign nation declares war on the UK by launching a missile that takes out Parliament during the state opening of Parliament. The monarch, Lords and Commons are all killed. We're now at war with no politicians and no monarch, who takes over?
    We always have a Monarch, and there is already in place a clear line of succession.

    At a guess elections would be called quickly, with the Monarch, Civil Service and Top Brass running things until a new Government is formed.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,535
    edited October 2015
    notme said:

    One of the beauties of our constitution, is the guy who thinks he's in charge, the Prime Minister, isnt. He has a boss. And that person is the person every councillor, every civil servant, every soldier, every member of parliament, every judge, every magistrate, every police officer swears allegiance to on taking office.

    While I am sure some take it with their fingers crossed, many however, will take it with great seriousness:
    "I, (name), do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God"

    I've long thought that if a situation occurred, unlikely though it is, in which push came to shove, and there was a conflict between the Government and the Queen, there would be no hesitation as to which side the forces of the crown would get behind. And it wouldnt be the Government.

    Strangely, if you replace 'the Queen' with 'Ataturk's memory and secularism', then that was the situation in Turkey. Whenever a mildly Islamist government tried to reduce secularism, the army would force them out in a coup.

    Which is why Erdogan neutered the army's leadership ten years ago and replaced them with his own men.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Mortimer said:

    FPT. Thanks Nick - always interesting to hear of other's approaches to canvassing. I think the efficiency of someone on the board may be key. My other objection to running the board is the need to actually say out loud the VI given, in the street. It just seems a little unsubtle to me....

    I'm always open to change, but I've yet to find a more effective way than just explaining why you are there, name candidate, name party. Ask if you can rely on their support. If they say yes, thank them very much, and mark them as much. If they say no and name other party, again thank them so. If they say undecided, you follow up by asking if they have voted for your party in the past. If they havent, thank you for their time and leave, if they have voted for you in the past. Engage with them as to why they might have changed their mind or are thinking about it.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,842
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Moses_ said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
    In general an attack that has killed the PM and the cabinet would involve an active military threat. That's just an example of where terrorists have come disturbingly close.
    Doesn't the speaker take over in that situation? If they can of course. No doubt there would be a unity government as politics are placed to one side. Well there would have been but of course Corbyn is now LOTO.
    A foreign nation declares war on the UK by launching a missile that takes out Parliament during the state opening of Parliament. The monarch, Lords and Commons are all killed. We're now at war with no politicians and no monarch, who takes over?
    There is always a monarch (ok, technically there wasn't in 1688 but that's not what we're talking about). If the Queen and Charles were both killed at a State opening, Wilpiam would be king. If he'd also been killed then George would be king and Harry would head a Council of Regency. The civil service and
    Palace officials would advise on appointing a PM and presumably any surviving senior politicians would also have a say. But there are three ex-PMs who might be a good place to start. Thereafter, a general election would refill the Commons.
  • TheKrakenAwakesTheKrakenAwakes Posts: 553
    Makes you despair that there are so many nutters in this country who hold such views...reality seems to pass them by and the most dispiriting thing is that, it is these types who's votes will dictate which government the rest of us are burdened with for the next 5 years.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Moses_ said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
    In general an attack that has killed the PM and the cabinet would involve an active military threat. That's just an example of where terrorists have come disturbingly close.
    Doesn't the speaker take over in that situation? If they can of course. No doubt there would be a unity government as politics are placed to one side. Well there would have been but of course Corbyn is now LOTO.
    A foreign nation declares war on the UK by launching a missile that takes out Parliament during the state opening of Parliament. The monarch, Lords and Commons are all killed. We're now at war with no politicians and no monarch, who takes over?
    Which foreign nation? Where would this missile be fired from?
    Let's start speculation based on reality.
    There is always a successor to any monarch.
    The only missile that could take out every single one of the people you mention would have to be nuclear. The military HQ for the UK is bomb proof.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    If Scotland lose, the inquisition will start.

    The cream of Northern Hemisphere rugby is being swept aside. France and Ireland weren't just beaten, they were stuffed.

  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Moses_ said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
    In general an attack that has killed the PM and the cabinet would involve an active military threat. That's just an example of where terrorists have come disturbingly close.
    Doesn't the speaker take over in that situation? If they can of course. No doubt there would be a unity government as politics are placed to one side. Well there would have been but of course Corbyn is now LOTO.
    No. The person in charge is still the Queen. It was before an attack and it is after an attack. She may choose someone to either form a government or act on a temporary basis until the emergency situation is rectified however.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040
    We have not had a military dictatorship in the UK since 1658 and I think it is somewhat unlikely that we will have one now.

    One of the advantages of living in a developed democracy is that there are a huge range of checks and balances built into our system that makes the damage that can be done by even the greatest loons quite modest. I mean our system survived Brown with barely 20 years worth of austerity as the price. I am sure our system is robust enough to cope with someone as incompetent as Corbyn.

    Let's not test it though, eh?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Jack Bauer surely?
    JEO said:

    JosiasJessop said:


    A British Jack Ryan ?

    http://www.amazon.com/Executive-Orders-Jack-Ryan-Novel/dp/0425158632

    "The President is dead--and the weight, literally, of the world falls on Jack Ryan's shoulders, in Tom Clancy's newest and most extraordinary novel."

    If the weight of the world literally fell on Jack Ryan's shoulders, I imagine it would be a fairly short book.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    TGOHF said:

    Wings over Bath is getting schooled by Andrew Neil on Twitter - most amusing.

    This is the "getting schooled" where Neil is exposed as lying about the Scottish Budget with sourced documentation from wings to which he cannot provide an answer. In reality Neil is getting the dockside hooker treatment and can't do anything but sit there taking it.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Moses_ said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
    In general an attack that has killed the PM and the cabinet would involve an active military threat. That's just an example of where terrorists have come disturbingly close.
    Doesn't the speaker take over in that situation? If they can of course. No doubt there would be a unity government as politics are placed to one side. Well there would have been but of course Corbyn is now LOTO.
    A foreign nation declares war on the UK by launching a missile that takes out Parliament during the state opening of Parliament. The monarch, Lords and Commons are all killed. We're now at war with no politicians and no monarch, who takes over?
    King Charles (or George VII i think he wants to be known as). Who will then probably ask Brown/Blair/Major to take the reigns of office until elections can be organised.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    This is just hilarious on so many levels.

    https://twitter.com/OliverCooper/status/655367395922546689
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040
    edited October 2015
    Scotland doing really well so far.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,988
    "44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK"

    Could any UKIPer out there please come and defend your barking supporters......
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    david_herdson said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Moses_ said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not thatut then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
    In general an attack that has killed the PM and the cabinet would involve an active military threat. That's just an example of where terrorists have come disturbingly close.
    Doesn't the speaker take over in that situation? If they can of course. No doubt there would be a unity government as politics are placed to one side. Well there would have been but of course Corbyn is now LOTO.
    A foreign nation declares war on the UK by launching a missile that takes out Parliament during the state opening of Parliament. The monarch, Lords and Commons are all killed. We're now at war with no politicians and no monarch, who takes over?
    There is always a monarch (ok, technically there wasn't in 1688 but that's not what we're talking about). If the Queen and Charles were both killed at a State opening, Wilpiam would be king. If he'd also been killed then George would be king and Harry would head a Council of Regency. The civil service and
    Palace officials would advise on appointing a PM and presumably any surviving senior politicians would also have a say. But there are three ex-PMs who might be a good place to start. Thereafter, a general election would refill the Commons.
    Yup, done and dusted in six months. Within a year, apart from the tragedy scaring those people directly impacted, we would have a new government working as before. All stock market crashes and immediate panics would be recovered from.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Jeez.. A massive U turn now on refugees placing PB lefties way of message. So John not in your back yard then but anyone else's is fine. The hypocriscsy of the left is utterly astounding.


    John McDonnell was yesterday dragged into the row over the migrants ferried to Manchester from his London constituency in a £50,000 stretch limo.

    The Shadow Chancellor said too many asylum seekers had been sent to his area and he had demanded a meeting with Home Secretary Theresa May's office to do something about it.
    Mr McDonnell accused the Home Office of breaking a promise to 'even out' refugees and asylum seekers across Britain – and not send too many to one area like his.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3277580/Limogate-t-refugees-moans-Shadow-Chancellor-John-McDonnell-dragged-row-migrants-ferried-Manchester-50-000-stretch-hummer.html#ixzz3ovqFxxqP

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    OT this made me Lol

    #recap How they deter public urination in the Czech Republic

    http://t.co/Iznvv6iY7m http://t.co/Y2P3g7GMkN
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Moses_ said:

    Jeez.. A massive U turn now on refugees placing PB lefties way of message. So John not in your back yard then but anyone else's is fine. The hypocriscsy of the left is utterly astounding.


    John McDonnell was yesterday dragged into the row over the migrants ferried to Manchester from his London constituency in a £50,000 stretch limo.

    The Shadow Chancellor said too many asylum seekers had been sent to his area and he had demanded a meeting with Home Secretary Theresa May's office to do something about it.
    Mr McDonnell accused the Home Office of breaking a promise to 'even out' refugees and asylum seekers across Britain – and not send too many to one area like his.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3277580/Limogate-t-refugees-moans-Shadow-Chancellor-John-McDonnell-dragged-row-migrants-ferried-Manchester-50-000-stretch-hummer.html#ixzz3ovqFxxqP

    forget the hummer bit... the idea that a hundred is a transit camp!
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,716
    Moses_ said:

    Jeez.. A massive U turn now on refugees placing PB lefties way of message. So John not in your back yard then but anyone else's is fine. The hypocriscsy of the left is utterly astounding.


    John McDonnell was yesterday dragged into the row over the migrants ferried to Manchester from his London constituency in a £50,000 stretch limo.

    The Shadow Chancellor said too many asylum seekers had been sent to his area and he had demanded a meeting with Home Secretary Theresa May's office to do something about it.
    Mr McDonnell accused the Home Office of breaking a promise to 'even out' refugees and asylum seekers across Britain – and not send too many to one area like his.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3277580/Limogate-t-refugees-moans-Shadow-Chancellor-John-McDonnell-dragged-row-migrants-ferried-Manchester-50-000-stretch-hummer.html#ixzz3ovqFxxqP

    Stretched limo? Surely May and the Home Office are playing silly beggars - targeting a figurehead of the far-Left pro-migrant movement to make him look inconsistent and foolish. It's a rotten trick, but it might well work.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,143
    Out of the last three, surely Sir John Major would be the natural choice if an emergency PM was required....
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Roger said:

    "44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK"

    Could any UKIPer out there please come and defend your barking supporters......

    Presumably a typical example would be if an extreme party (left or right) managed to obtain power and started declaring other (peaceful) political parties illegal or started arresting other MPs on apparently trumped-up charges.

    Just because you can envisage situations doesn't mean that they are likely ones.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,933
    weejonnie said:

    Roger said:

    "44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK"

    Could any UKIPer out there please come and defend your barking supporters......

    Presumably a typical example would be if an extreme party (left or right) managed to obtain power and started declaring other (peaceful) political parties illegal or started arresting other MPs on apparently trumped-up charges.

    Just because you can envisage situations doesn't mean that they are likely ones.
    OK, but 12%, roughly one in eight is still quite high:

    12% of UKIP voters & 5% of CON ones tell YouGov that they'd support coup by armed forces if Boris became Prime Minister
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Dair said:

    This is just hilarious on so many levels.

    https://twitter.com/OliverCooper/status/655367395922546689

    It's only hilarious if you think that UKIP supporters are swivel eyed racist little Englanders. UKIP supporters are in favour of a merit-based immigration system rather than the current European racist one.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591
    Anyone saying no to that question is simply owning up to a failure of imagination, given how broadly it's set.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    logical_song said:

    weejonnie said:

    Roger said:

    "44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK"

    Could any UKIPer out there please come and defend your barking supporters......

    Presumably a typical example would be if an extreme party (left or right) managed to obtain power and started declaring other (peaceful) political parties illegal or started arresting other MPs on apparently trumped-up charges.

    Just because you can envisage situations doesn't mean that they are likely ones.
    OK, but 12%, roughly one in eight is still quite high:

    12% of UKIP voters & 5% of CON ones tell YouGov that they'd support coup by armed forces if Boris became Prime Minister
    I think 10% of people will agree to anything. I can't imagine any case when a coup against Boris Johnson is logical - mind you I can't imagine any scenario when Boris Johnson becomes Prime Minister - he hasn't the necessary gravitas - However Berlusconi did become prime minister of Italy.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,842
    Mortimer said:

    Out of the last three, surely Sir John Major would be the natural choice if an emergency PM was required....

    In current circumstances, yes. Had Labour a majority then Blair would be a better choice.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Roger said:

    "44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK"

    Could any UKIPer out there please come and defend your barking supporters......

    There are no situations in which you would support an armed force coup?

    Lets run through through a scenario.
    The government claims there is a major threat to the UK and tries to enact the emergency powers contained within the Civil Contingencies Act 2004. It allows temporary emergency laws and can be enacted without the permission of the Queen (if it was felt that it would delay the situation in order to get her permission).

    Once enacted *any* piece of legislation with the exception of the HRA can be amended on the word of the minister.

    At which point do you support an armed coup?

    - The government amends the Parliament act of 1911 which allows a Parliament to run for fifteen years
    - The government amends the act of settlement 1701to end the monarchy.
    - The government amends the representation of the people act to require property ownership to be entered onto the electoral roll.

    Any of those?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,994
    I was right. Scotland are going to win this.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    What the hell is going on!

    No way Scotland can maintain this level of power.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,173
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Moses_ said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
    In general an attack that has killed the PM and the cabinet would involve an active military threat. That's just an example of where terrorists have come disturbingly close.
    Doesn't the speaker take over in that situation? If they can of course. No doubt there would be a unity government as politics are placed to one side. Well there would have been but of course Corbyn is now LOTO.
    A foreign nation declares war on the UK by launching a missile that takes out Parliament during the state opening of Parliament. The monarch, Lords and Commons are all killed. We're now at war with no politicians and no monarch, who takes over?
    But we've got Trident so that could never happen.

    Apparently.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040
    Remind me, these southern hemisphere jonnies are supposed to be difficult, yes?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,842
    Were Australia out onthe lash last night?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    Scotland started surprisingly well, hope for a northern hemisphere semi finalist yet
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    david_herdson said:

    Mortimer said:

    Out of the last three, surely Sir John Major would be the natural choice if an emergency PM was required....

    In current circumstances, yes. Had Labour a majority then Blair would be a better choice.
    If we are trying to really play through what would happen, I suspect it would be a recommendation from the Privy Council. They would come to it fairly quickly.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,909
    weejonnie said:

    Dair said:

    This is just hilarious on so many levels.

    https://twitter.com/OliverCooper/status/655367395922546689

    It's only hilarious if you think that UKIP supporters are swivel eyed racist little Englanders. UKIP supporters are in favour of a merit-based immigration system rather than the current European racist one.
    He does think that. Dair deplores anything that could be construed as nationalism or chauvinism unless of course they're Scottish.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,994
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Moses_ said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
    In general an attack that has killed the PM and the cabinet would involve an active military threat. That's just an example of where terrorists have come disturbingly close.
    Doesn't the speaker take over in that situation? If they can of course. No doubt there would be a unity government as politics are placed to one side. Well there would have been but of course Corbyn is now LOTO.
    A foreign nation declares war on the UK by launching a missile that takes out Parliament during the state opening of Parliament. The monarch, Lords and Commons are all killed. We're now at war with no politicians and no monarch, who takes over?
    But we've got Trident so that could never happen.

    Apparently.
    Forget politics.

    Focus on the rugby
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    TUD Nobody said it couldn't happen but it wouldn't happen twice..
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    edited October 2015
    DavidL said:

    Remind me, these southern hemisphere jonnies are supposed to be difficult, yes?

    Not content with cursing countless promising test match innings, DavidL now chooses to destroy Scotland's chances in the rugby ;-)

  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Roger said:

    "44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK"

    Could any UKIPer out there please come and defend your barking supporters......

    Roger, I am not UKIP, but I think it is sad for the defence of democracy that less than 100% of the entire electorate can envisage situations when they'd support a coup. Clearly, the framers of the US constitution all could agree on that.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Moses_ said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
    In general an attack that has killed the PM and the cabinet would involve an active military threat. That's just an example of where terrorists have come disturbingly close.
    Doesn't the speaker take over in that situation? If they can of course. No doubt there would be a unity government as politics are placed to one side. Well there would have been but of course Corbyn is now LOTO.
    A foreign nation declares war on the UK by launching a missile that takes out Parliament during the state opening of Parliament. The monarch, Lords and Commons are all killed. We're now at war with no politicians and no monarch, who takes over?
    But we've got Trident so that could never happen.

    Apparently.
    Forget politics.

    Focus on the rugby
    Australia look weak under the high ball. Could cost them dear. That and goal kicking. If you keep giving penalties away then being good going forward is of limited help.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    isam said:

    I like Newcastle and under 2.5... So maybe 1-0 2-0 Newcastle?

    Or maybe not!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @afneil: 101 economics for numpties, including Mr Wings from Bath: TME not DEL is measure of total spending.

    @DrScottThinks: Today @afneil toasted @AngusRobertson & then went on to roast @WingsScotland when he tried to defend him. #Awkward http://t.co/E45mArpZ8H
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    weejonnie said:

    Dair said:

    This is just hilarious on so many levels.

    https://twitter.com/OliverCooper/status/655367395922546689

    It's only hilarious if you think that UKIP supporters are swivel eyed racist little Englanders. UKIP supporters are in favour of a merit-based immigration system rather than the current European racist one.
    Was not this the Thai woman that the kipper Atkinson made the ting tong remark about? I did not think they were in UKIP any more.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,173
    richardDodd said:

    TUD Nobody said it couldn't happen but it wouldn't happen twice..

    Yeah, that's right. A missile taking out Westminster incl. the monarch, Lords and Commons is pretty much the definition of a one-off event, unless you think the twin towers can be hit again?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Moses_ said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    JEO said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    '44% of Ukip voters tell YouGov that they can envisage situations when they'd support armed forces coup in UK '

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The Hodge recently wrote a Telegraph piece berating some military top brass who'd blathered about something similar. The comments below the line were almost unanimously in favour of the junta.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881873/Generals-talking-about-politics-should-remember-whos-the-boss.html

    I can imagine situations 'however unlikely' where I could support martial government. An imminent invasion after the cabinet has been assasinated, for example.
    It is not that unimaginable. Had the Brighton bombing succeeded in killing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet who would have led the country in the interim until things dusted down?

    I suspect a lot of people would say No to "however unlikely" question but then like on Yes, Minister were you to phrase it differently with specific examples you could get a lot more people saying yes.
    If there was not an active military threat, I would rather the higher rungs of the civil service took over.
    In general an attack that has killed the PM and the cabinet would involve an active military threat. That's just an example of where terrorists have come disturbingly close.
    Doesn't the speaker take over in that situation? If they can of course. No doubt there would be a unity government as politics are placed to one side. Well there would have been but of course Corbyn is now LOTO.
    A foreign nation declares war on the UK by launching a missile that takes out Parliament during the state opening of Parliament. The monarch, Lords and Commons are all killed. We're now at war with no politicians and no monarch, who takes over?
    But we've got Trident so that could never happen.

    Apparently.
    I think the argument is that it makes it less likely.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    flightpath01 said:

    weejonnie said:

    Dair said:

    This is just hilarious on so many levels.

    https://twitter.com/OliverCooper/status/655367395922546689

    It's only hilarious if you think that UKIP supporters are swivel eyed racist little Englanders. UKIP supporters are in favour of a merit-based immigration system rather than the current European racist one.
    Was not this the Thai woman that the kipper Atkinson made the ting tong remark about? I did not think they were in UKIP any more.
    Yes, because one remark by a UKIP member tarnishes the entire UKIP brand. Of course, how proportionate.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    TUD As you are obviously so brilliant in such matters perhaps you could let us all know what your solution and response would be..take your time...
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Just got this forwarded from a Scottish friend of a friend:

    An Englishman walks into a bar. The Scotsman and Irishman were still out playing rugby.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    JEO Seems like the Englishman is the bright one..
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,994
    Harsh. Very harsh
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    TGOHF said:

    Wings over Bath is getting schooled by Andrew Neil on Twitter - most amusing.

    He'll rue the day.
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