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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Harry Hayfield’s Local By-Election Preview : October 1st 20

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  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    kle4 said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    The NY Jets are playing in London.

    They are taking 350 rolls of toilet paper with them.

    Why?

    Because the UK paper is too thin for the big US lard arses.
    I remember growing up in England we had IZAL toilet paper. It was like a combination of greaseproof and tracing paper.

    It was awful.
    Sounds like the stuff they used to have in most public toilets - bizarre stuff, entirely unable to do the one job it was supposed to do. I was convinced as a child it was designed to get people not to use such facilities (that it was often found in ones with stainless steel toilets with no seat rims only seemed to back that up).
    Very painful, IIRC
  • Options

    Very interesting on QT. If Labour's review commits the party to Trident how can Corbyn continue as the party's leader given he would not be able to abide by the results of a process he initiated.

    His response will be simple. "We may lose the vote today, and the result may deal this party a grave blow. It may not be possible to prevent it, but there are some of us, I think many of us, who will not accept that this blow need be mortal: who will not believe that such an end is inevitable. There are some of us who will fight, and fight, and fight again, to save the party we love. We will fight, and fight, and fight again, to bring back sanity and honesty and dignity, so that our party – with its great past – may retain its glory and its greatness."

    Just with the position reversed ;)

    Poor old Hugh, turning in your grave, your flag's not so blue now is it?
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Scott_P said:

    For the hard of understanding...

    Messer first informally told the Crown Office in December 2014 that Hales had been struck off by the SSDT for suspected mortgage fraud, during a routine quarterly meeting between the two organisations. Crown Office lawyers asked Messer to provide them with detailed case files but failed to get them.
    So nothing about Thomson then.

    But it's still all some weird conspiracy where half of Scotland, that votes Yes, is not working in cahoots to undermine the Loyalist cause.

    Farcical.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,284

    HYUFD said:

    Very interesting on QT. If Labour's review commits the party to Trident how can Corbyn continue as the party's leader given he would not be able to abide by the results of a process he initiated.

    Simple, he just would not press the button rendering it effectively redundant anyway
    Just not electable - simple
    Well that is a given
  • Options

    JEO said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    On a more positive and harmonious note, I've just been to see a school in north London, on their open day (I'm checking out secondaries for my older daughter).

    The particular school we visited tonight is a state comp: it used to be terrible, it almost closed down a few years ago, it has majority non-white British intake, lots of kids with special needs, lots of kids entitled to free school meals. A recipe for disaster.

    In the last few years, the new staff have imposed a very strict code of discipline: absolute insistence on uniform, 2 hours homework a night, all the teachers called Sir or Madam. Also, it has gone from being mildly Catholic to fiercely Catholic - prayers every day, nuns in the corridor, 3 hours RE a week, etc etc. There are British flags on the wall in several classrooms, demanding respect for British values.

    It is now a Good school with some Outstanding aspects, sending black, WWC and Muslim kids to Cambridge, UCL, Imperial, etc, last year.

    Something is going RIGHT in some multicultural London schools, yet it is being done by a reversion to quite old-fashioned British schooling.

    Conservatism works.
    This is not a very wide sample
    It's true across schools. The firmer the discipline, the greater the emphasis on character, the deeper the culture of respect, the better the school. Children need structure and values, the more so if they are from unstructured and valueless family backgrounds.

    This is why free schools and academies were such a brilliant idea. You free headteachers to make the reforms that both they and parents know work. The left-wing local authorities and unions that allow ideology to triumph over experience are removed from the equation.

    The flaw in your argument is that schools run by left wing local authorities in London are among the best performing in the UK.

    Are you counting academies etc which are not run by the authorities?
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Crinkly Bottom.
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    The NY Jets are playing in London.

    They are taking 350 rolls of toilet paper with them.

    Why?

    Because the UK paper is too thin for the big US lard arses.
    I remember growing up in England we had IZAL toilet paper. It was like a combination of greaseproof and tracing paper.

    It was awful.
    Sounds like the stuff they used to have in most public toilets - bizarre stuff, entirely unable to do the one job it was supposed to do. I was convinced as a child it was designed to get people not to use such facilities (that it was often found in ones with stainless steel toilets with no seat rims only seemed to back that up).
    Very painful, IIRC
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Charlotte Church is a better advocate for the Welsh than Leanne Wood.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,284
    Charles Moore makes the very sensible point more people in Wales voted UKIP than for Plaid Cymru in May
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kle4 said:

    She's coming across as rather dim, irrespective of her political persuasion.

    JEO said:

    Charlotte Church claim Corbyn had the biggest mandate of any party leader in British history. I would have thought winning three general elections would be a bigger mandate...

    Church is a key Corbynite demographic. Thick as two short planks.
    Well these days she is off key.
    I always get this nagging worry when seeing someone talking about politics who appears to be quite dim, because quite often they also espouse, directly or otherwise, the idea that everyone would agree with them if they understood things properly - that is, that everyone else is being dim if they disagree, so if I say they are wrong because they are dim, am I doing the same thing?

    I may be overthinking things in fairness- I think I have too much self doubt for political activity, as you either need to be arrogant or confident enough to be near certain you are correct in your beliefs, and for that you need to be someone of rare assurance and ability and fully aware of the worth of your knowledge and sight, or pretty thick and not knowing any better.
    I am rather liking Charlotte Church. I can see next years assembly elections being more significant than the Scots ones.
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    Dair said:

    Charlotte Church is a better advocate for the Welsh than Leanne Wood.

    Charlotte Church is barmy, no wonder you like her.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Tim Stanley ‏@timothy_stanley 9m9 minutes ago
    "The shooter reportedly... asked people to stand up and state their religion. He then began firing." #OregonShooting http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/01/oregon-cops-respond-to-report-shooter-at-community-college/

    I wonder what religion the killer belonged to?
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    JEO said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    On a more positive and harmonious note, I've just been to see a school in north London, on their open day (I'm checking out secondaries for my older daughter).

    The particular school we visited tonight is a state comp: it used to be terrible, it almost closed down a few years ago, it has majority non-white British intake, lots of kids with special needs, lots of kids entitled to free school meals. A recipe for disaster.

    In the last few years, the new staff have imposed a very strict code of discipline: absolute insistence on uniform, 2 hours homework a night, all the teachers called Sir or Madam. Also, it has gone from being mildly Catholic to fiercely Catholic - prayers every day, nuns in the corridor, 3 hours RE a week, etc etc. There are British flags on the wall in several classrooms, demanding respect for British values.

    It is now a Good school with some Outstanding aspects, sending black, WWC and Muslim kids to Cambridge, UCL, Imperial, etc, last year.

    Something is going RIGHT in some multicultural London schools, yet it is being done by a reversion to quite old-fashioned British schooling.

    Conservatism works.
    This is not a very wide sample
    It's true across schools. The firmer the discipline, the greater the emphasis on character, the deeper the culture of respect, the better the school. Children need structure and values, the more so if they are from unstructured and valueless family backgrounds.

    This is why free schools and academies were such a brilliant idea. You free headteachers to make the reforms that both they and parents know work. The left-wing local authorities and unions that allow ideology to triumph over experience are removed from the equation.

    The flaw in your argument is that schools run by left wing local authorities in London are among the best performing in the UK.

    School I was at tonight is in a Tory borough.

    But it has equivalents across London. Labour and Tory boroughs massively outperform schools elsewhere in the UK.

  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    How on Earth are people arguing that Wales doesn't get its fair share of funding? It is one of the most subsidised parts of the whole UK.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Jeremy Corbyn is focussing on taking control of party structures. Policy can wait until that's achieved.

    He's doing well on carrying out his allotted task. Once you realise that his current plans have nothing to do with persuading the electorate, his actions become much more rational.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    For a Party leader - she's incredibly inarticulate.
    HYUFD said:

    Charles Moore makes the very sensible point more people in Wales voted UKIP than for Plaid Cymru in May

  • Options
    MikeL said:

    Very interesting on QT. If Labour's review commits the party to Trident how can Corbyn continue as the party's leader given he would not be able to abide by the results of a process he initiated.

    Yes.

    But Corbyn is going to ensure it's decided by a full vote of party members / affiliates / supporters - and that means that Corbyn will win - they will vote to scrap Trident.
    And his MP's will do what he always did - defy him and vote for in such large numbers he will become a lame duck, if he's not one already
  • Options
    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Tim_B said:

    The NY Jets are playing in London.

    They are taking 350 rolls of toilet paper with them.

    Why?

    They are sponsored by IZAL?
    Apparently they put about 5000 items onto a Liberty Ship containing all the necessaries for all 6 battalions, sorry teams, hitting the beaches of the UK this year. I imagine the toilet paper will be eclipsed by the miles of gauze and binding tape they use for a typical game.
    So here is the tie break question.
    There are 220 in the party so dividing 350 by 220 and factoring the average size of a typical US breakfast with grits and the eggs over easy, and multiplying by the coefficient of expansion of the lower colon spread over 65 hours, and allowing for time difference - how many sheets per week per quarterback hour are used in the regular season in the central league?
    I'm sure the kids in SeanT's school will blitz the answer.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,284
    Stephen Kinnock seems to have a bit of a lisp
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    The NY Jets are playing in London.

    They are taking 350 rolls of toilet paper with them.

    Why?

    Because the UK paper is too thin for the big US lard arses.
    I remember growing up in England we had IZAL toilet paper. It was like a combination of greaseproof and tracing paper.

    It was awful.
    Sounds like the stuff they used to have in most public toilets - bizarre stuff, entirely unable to do the one job it was supposed to do. I was convinced as a child it was designed to get people not to use such facilities (that it was often found in ones with stainless steel toilets with no seat rims only seemed to back that up).
    Very painful, IIRC
    As toilet paper it was useless.
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Very interesting on QT. If Labour's review commits the party to Trident how can Corbyn continue as the party's leader given he would not be able to abide by the results of a process he initiated.

    His response will be simple. "We may lose the vote today, and the result may deal this party a grave blow. It may not be possible to prevent it, but there are some of us, I think many of us, who will not accept that this blow need be mortal: who will not believe that such an end is inevitable. There are some of us who will fight, and fight, and fight again, to save the party we love. We will fight, and fight, and fight again, to bring back sanity and honesty and dignity, so that our party – with its great past – may retain its glory and its greatness."

    Just with the position reversed ;)

    Poor old Hugh, turning in your grave, your flag's not so blue now is it?
    Is Corbyn making that funny condescending snorty-sniff noise yet?
  • Options

    For a Party leader - she's incredibly inarticulate.

    HYUFD said:

    Charles Moore makes the very sensible point more people in Wales voted UKIP than for Plaid Cymru in May

    Her one good point was that Labour have ran Wales for 17 years and should be kicked out.

    She never made clear why PC are the alternative that should go in their place.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Dair said:

    So nothing about Thomson then.

    Thomson is in the files.

    Ok, you're just punking me now, aren't you. Nobody is this dense.
  • Options
    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited October 2015

    JEO said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    On a more positive and harmonious note, I've just been to see a school in north London, on their open day (I'm checking out secondaries for my older daughter).

    The particular school we visited tonight is a state comp: it used to be terrible, it almost closed down a few years ago, it has majority non-white British intake, lots of kids with special needs, lots of kids entitled to free school meals. A recipe for disaster.

    In the last few years, the new staff have imposed a very strict code of discipline: absolute insistence on uniform, 2 hours homework a night, all the teachers called Sir or Madam. Also, it has gone from being mildly Catholic to fiercely Catholic - prayers every day, nuns in the corridor, 3 hours RE a week, etc etc. There are British flags on the wall in several classrooms, demanding respect for British values.

    It is now a Good school with some Outstanding aspects, sending black, WWC and Muslim kids to Cambridge, UCL, Imperial, etc, last year.

    Something is going RIGHT in some multicultural London schools, yet it is being done by a reversion to quite old-fashioned British schooling.

    Conservatism works.
    This is not a very wide sample
    It's true across schools. The firmer the discipline, the greater the emphasis on character, the deeper the culture of respect, the better the school. Children need structure and values, the more so if they are from unstructured and valueless family backgrounds.

    This is why free schools and academies were such a brilliant idea. You free headteachers to make the reforms that both they and parents know work. The left-wing local authorities and unions that allow ideology to triumph over experience are removed from the equation.

    The flaw in your argument is that schools run by left wing local authorities in London are among the best performing in the UK.

    Are you counting academies etc which are not run by the authorities?
    I don't want to add extra heat to this debate, but I thought I'd sling the word "multifactorial" in. Complex changes in a complex system have complex effects.

    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/30/london-schools-success-gradual-improvements-not-policies-lse-ifs-report

    That's a surprisingly nuanced report in the Guardian, who are very prone to congratulating New Labour and the "London Challenge" in particular... this piece actually reflects positively on the abolition of the ILEA under Thatcher!
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    SeanT said:

    EPG said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    On a more positive and harmonious note, I've just been to see a school in north London, on their open day (I'm checking out secondaries for my older daughter).

    The particular school we visited tonight is a state comp: it used to be terrible, it almost closed down a few years ago, it has majority non-white British intake, lots of kids with special needs, lots of kids entitled to free school meals. A recipe for disaster.

    In the last few years, the new staff have imposed a very strict code of discipline: absolute insistence on uniform, 2 hours homework a night, all the teachers called Sir or Madam. Also, it has gone from being mildly Catholic to fiercely Catholic - prayers every day, nuns in the corridor, 3 hours RE a week, etc etc. There are British flags on the wall in several classrooms, demanding respect for British values.

    It is now a Good school with some Outstanding aspects, sending black, WWC and Muslim kids to Cambridge, UCL, Imperial, etc, last year.

    Something is going RIGHT in some multicultural London schools, yet it is being done by a reversion to quite old-fashioned British schooling.

    Conservatism works.
    London's getting wealthier, which is great for London and you will mostly hear these stories about a small number of London schools.
    It's not money that has changed the school I visited, it's a change in attitude. It's a school saying - this is a Christian school, with BRITISH values. Wear your damn uniform, do your damn homework, call the teacher Sir or Madam, and you will prosper. If not, you will be punished and then expelled. And remember this is a school with a very tough intake, judging by free school meals.

    The head boy was a black kid doing 4 A levels, the girl who showed us around was a black girl bursting with pride about her school, and going on to Uni.

    It was quite inspiring. And encouraging. How often do you visit a school that has a poster of the Queen on the wall and another poster next to it, emblazoned with the Union Jack, saying Respect British Values.

    And you know what? The open day of the school was so over subscribed, this evening, they had to open a second hall for aspiring parents to hear the head's speech. I'd say 80% of them were immigrants or non-Brit.
    Sean, you may be interested that this approach of a highly structured environment, with high expectation and rigorous social rules seems to work in deprived US city centres too. Here are two very successful schools for disadvantaged kids in Baltimore - home of The Wire (which was a pretty accurate depiction of the neighborhoods these kids come from):

    http://www.baltimoremagazine.net/old-site/this-month/2008/07/planting-a-seed-in-baltimore

    http://www.bmoremedia.com/features/cristoreybaltimore082311.aspx
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Have to say - I'm really rating Stephen Crabb - I thought he was another talking media head not SOS for Wales.
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Charlotte Church is one of the most bumbling, inarticulate, incoherent guests I've ever seen on Question Time. If she is representative of the Jezlamists they really are in trouble.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Charlotte Church is as ignorant about the world as most lefties are; hm perhaps a little more.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,130
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    The NY Jets are playing in London.

    They are taking 350 rolls of toilet paper with them.

    Why?

    Because the UK paper is too thin for the big US lard arses.
    I remember growing up in England we had IZAL toilet paper. It was like a combination of greaseproof and tracing paper.

    It was awful.
    Sounds like the stuff they used to have in most public toilets - bizarre stuff, entirely unable to do the one job it was supposed to do. I was convinced as a child it was designed to get people not to use such facilities (that it was often found in ones with stainless steel toilets with no seat rims only seemed to back that up).
    Very painful, IIRC
    Indeed. Not to bring down the discussion, but on reflection i am baffled as to how what was clearly just tracing paper was apparently widely used as a product across many decades, when it fulfilled not a single criteria for its intended purpose. It'd be like making bricks with the consistency of a fresh loaf of bread and still trying to build houses with them decades later. Only with more posterior discomfort.

    But enough of that.
  • Options

    JEO said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    On a more positive and harmonious note, I've just been to see a school in north London, on their open day (I'm checking out secondaries for my older daughter).

    The particular school we visited tonight is a state comp: it used to be terrible, it almost closed down a few years ago, it has majority non-white British intake, lots of kids with special needs, lots of kids entitled to free school meals. A recipe for disaster.

    In the last few years, the new staff have imposed a very strict code of discipline: absolute insistence on uniform, 2 hours homework a night, all the teachers called Sir or Madam. Also, it has gone from being mildly Catholic to fiercely Catholic - prayers every day, nuns in the corridor, 3 hours RE a week, etc etc. There are British flags on the wall in several classrooms, demanding respect for British values.

    It is now a Good school with some Outstanding aspects, sending black, WWC and Muslim kids to Cambridge, UCL, Imperial, etc, last year.

    Something is going RIGHT in some multicultural London schools, yet it is being done by a reversion to quite old-fashioned British schooling.

    Conservatism works.
    This is not a very wide sample
    It's true across schools. The firmer the discipline, the greater the emphasis on character, the deeper the culture of respect, the better the school. Children need structure and values, the more so if they are from unstructured and valueless family backgrounds.

    This is why free schools and academies were such a brilliant idea. You free headteachers to make the reforms that both they and parents know work. The left-wing local authorities and unions that allow ideology to triumph over experience are removed from the equation.

    The flaw in your argument is that schools run by left wing local authorities in London are among the best performing in the UK.

    Are you counting academies etc which are not run by the authorities?

    London schools generally significantly outperform those in the rest of the country:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19151471
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited October 2015
    Where did the BBC get this QT audience? They're more representative of UK opinion than I've ever seen.
  • Options
    While it's tough to judge a BBC QT audience Charlotte Church seems to represent Corbynite lunacy vocally tonight and is getting no backing from the audience. Not a single clap after her rambling just now on Syria.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Stephen Kinnock is a pompous ass. Got booed defending the Labour government in Wales.

    Can another Labour bastion fall?
  • Options
    How pissed off and helpless does Obama look and sound.
    No doubt Fox will find a way to blame the Democrats.
  • Options

    While it's tough to judge a BBC QT audience Charlotte Church seems to represent Corbynite lunacy vocally tonight and is getting no backing from the audience. Not a single clap after her rambling just now on Syria.

    Charlotte Church giving an opinion on Syria or anything is just surreal
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    JEO said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    On a more positive and harmonious note, I've just been to see a school in north London, on their open day (I'm checking out secondaries for my older daughter).

    The particular school we visited tonight is a state comp: it used to be terrible, it almost closed down a few years ago, it has majority non-white British intake, lots of kids with special needs, lots of kids entitled to free school meals. A recipe for disaster.

    In the last few years, the new staff have imposed a very strict code of discipline: absolute insistence on uniform, 2 hours homework a night, all the teachers called Sir or Madam. Also, it has gone from being mildly Catholic to fiercely Catholic - prayers every day, nuns in the corridor, 3 hours RE a week, etc etc. There are British flags on the wall in several classrooms, demanding respect for British values.

    It is now a Good school with some Outstanding aspects, sending black, WWC and Muslim kids to Cambridge, UCL, Imperial, etc, last year.

    Something is going RIGHT in some multicultural London schools, yet it is being done by a reversion to quite old-fashioned British schooling.

    Conservatism works.
    This is not a very wide sample
    It's true across schools. The firmer the discipline, the greater the emphasis on character, the deeper the culture of respect, the better the school. Children need structure and values, the more so if they are from unstructured and valueless family backgrounds.

    This is why free schools and academies were such a brilliant idea. You free headteachers to make the reforms that both they and parents know work. The left-wing local authorities and unions that allow ideology to triumph over experience are removed from the equation.

    The flaw in your argument is that schools run by left wing local authorities in London are among the best performing in the UK.

    Are you counting academies etc which are not run by the authorities?

    London schools generally significantly outperform those in the rest of the country:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19151471
    You didn't answer the question. The schools that are doing well in London are the ones that aren't controlled by the local authorities.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    The NY Jets are playing in London.

    They are taking 350 rolls of toilet paper with them.

    Why?

    Because the UK paper is too thin for the big US lard arses.
    I remember growing up in England we had IZAL toilet paper. It was like a combination of greaseproof and tracing paper.

    It was awful.
    Sounds like the stuff they used to have in most public toilets - bizarre stuff, entirely unable to do the one job it was supposed to do. I was convinced as a child it was designed to get people not to use such facilities (that it was often found in ones with stainless steel toilets with no seat rims only seemed to back that up).
    Very painful, IIRC
    Indeed. Not to bring down the discussion, but on reflection i am baffled as to how what was clearly just tracing paper was apparently widely used as a product across many decades, when it fulfilled not a single criteria for its intended purpose. It'd be like making bricks with the consistency of a fresh loaf of bread and still trying to build houses with them decades later. Only with more posterior discomfort.

    But enough of that.
    IIRC it was 'medicated'. I think the trademark was 'San Izal'.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    JEO said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    On a more positive and harmonious note, I've just been to see a school in north London, on their open day (I'm checking out secondaries for my older daughter).

    This is not a very wide sample
    It's true across schools. The firmer the discipline, the greater the emphasis on character, the deeper the culture of respect, the better the school. Children need structure and values, the more so if they are from unstructured and valueless family backgrounds.

    This is why free schools and academies were such a brilliant idea. You free headteachers to make the reforms that both they and parents know work. The left-wing local authorities and unions that allow ideology to triumph over experience are removed from the equation.

    The flaw in your argument is that schools run by left wing local authorities in London are among the best performing in the UK.

    Are you counting academies etc which are not run by the authorities?

    London schools generally significantly outperform those in the rest of the country:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19151471
    Probably more to do with the backgrounds of the immigrants whose children attend them rather than anything intended Govt policy. The Trojan horse schools did fantastically when they went solo

    "In the latest study, academics sought to assess the reasons pupils in London score significantly better GCSEs results than the rest of England

    The findings cast doubt over claims from the previous government and teachers’ leaders that Labour’s flagship “London Challenge” programme – extra funding to promote collaborative working between schools – was the main reason for improved results in the capital.

    Prof Burgess said: “My interpretation of these results leads to a focus on pupil aspiration, ambition and engagement. There is nothing inherently different in the ability of pupils from different ethnic backgrounds, but the children of relatively recent immigrants typically have greater hopes and expectations of education, and are, on average, more likely to be engaged with their school work.

    “This is not by chance of course. A key point about London is its attraction to migrants and those aspiring to a better life.”"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11223747/Schools-with-large-migrant-intake-get-better-GCSE-results.html
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    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is focussing on taking control of party structures. Policy can wait until that's achieved.

    He's doing well on carrying out his allotted task. Once you realise that his current plans have nothing to do with persuading the electorate, his actions become much more rational.

    Der lange Marsch durch die Institutionen includes, for the radicals, the corridors of the Labour party machinery.

    The Corbynistas give him the weight of numbers he needs to change not just the face of Labour, but its workings and compositions, for a generation. I'm not convinced he expects to be PM in 2020, I'm sure he knows in his hearts of hearts that it's unlikely to happen. But I'm not convinced he thinks he's a lame duck because of it, either.

    Reminds me in a strange way of Blair in 2006. Free from the pressure of ever having to win an election, but obliged to make his mark felt in his remaining time. Blair attempted a final flurry of radical public sector reform, but because he did not truly control his party he was unable to make any headway. Corbyn will attempt radical party reform, and although his position within the PLP is unpromising, he seems to have enough willing hands on enough levers that he might just have a shot at it.
  • Options
    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is focussing on taking control of party structures. Policy can wait until that's achieved.

    He's doing well on carrying out his allotted task. Once you realise that his current plans have nothing to do with persuading the electorate, his actions become much more rational.

    A take over, as I said weeks ago. Once the £3ers began to make their presence felt and the corbynite rallies with their warm up acts and the messiah cult began to take hold, surely it was clear to everyone what was going on. Furthermore it is a take over by the Stop The War campaign, Corbyn was its Chairman after all. Throw in the Anti Globalisation great unwashed hard left street fighting rioters for good measure who have temporarily morphed into Anti Austerity urchins.
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    The NY Jets are playing in London.

    They are taking 350 rolls of toilet paper with them.

    Why?

    Because the UK paper is too thin for the big US lard arses.
    I remember growing up in England we had IZAL toilet paper. It was like a combination of greaseproof and tracing paper.

    It was awful.
    You had ROLLS of paper?

    Fooking luxury.

    We had to pick it out of a box sheet by sheet.

    And it wasn't absorbent, no, it was like waxed paper, shiny when new, smearing was the best you could hope for.

    Wiping?

    Fooking luxury.

    ** This is not a joke, this is actually what it was, a small rectangular box of individual, shiny, non absorbent sheets.
  • Options

    Are you counting academies etc which are not run by the authorities?

    London schools generally significantly outperform those in the rest of the country:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19151471
    That doesn't answer the question. As the article you've linked to actually states a large number of London schools are academies as they were the most struggling and it is taking them OUT of authority control which has increased their performance.

    When a school performance goes up when it is taken out of authority control and made an academy then that does not demonstrate that the authority was managing the school well. Quite the opposite in fact! Your evidence undermines rather than supports your premise, the authority was the problem and giving power to academies rather than the authority is a working solution.
  • Options
    SNP hold Glenrothes shockeroonie.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I didn't think he was pompous - just terribly unconvincing

    Stephen Kinnock is a pompous ass. Got booed defending the Labour government in Wales.

    Can another Labour bastion fall?

  • Options
    Glenrothes West & Kinglassie (Fife) result:
    SNP - 59.0% (+16.5)
    LAB - 31.9% (-9.3)
    CON - 6.2% (+3.2)
    GRN - 3.0% (+3.0)
  • Options
    JEO said:

    JEO said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    On a more positive and harmonious note, I've just been to see a school in north London, on their open day (I'm checking out secondaries for my older daughter).

    The particular school we visited tonight is a state comp: it used to be terrible, it almost closed down a few years ago, it has majority non-white British intake, lots of kids with special needs, lots of kids entitled to free school meals. A recipe for disaster.

    In the last few years, the new staff have imposed a very strict code of discipline: absolute insistence on uniform, 2 hours homework a night, all the teachers called Sir or Madam. Also, it has gone from being mildly Catholic to fiercely Catholic - prayers every day, nuns in the corridor, 3 hours RE a week, etc etc. There are British flags on the wall in several classrooms, demanding respect for British values.

    It is now a Good school with some Outstanding aspects, sending black, WWC and Muslim kids to Cambridge, UCL, Imperial, etc, last year.

    Something is going RIGHT in some multicultural London schools, yet it is being done by a reversion to quite old-fashioned British schooling.

    Conservatism works.
    This is not a very wide sample
    It's true across schools. The firmer the discipline, the greater the emphasis on character, the deeper the culture of respect, the better the school. Children need structure and values, the more so if they are from unstructured and valueless family backgrounds.

    This is why free schools and academies were such a brilliant idea. You free headteachers to make the reforms that both they and parents know work. The left-wing local authorities and unions that allow ideology to triumph over experience are removed from the equation.

    The flaw in your argument is that schools run by left wing local authorities in London are among the best performing in the UK.

    Are you counting academies etc which are not run by the authorities?

    London schools generally significantly outperform those in the rest of the country:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19151471
    You didn't answer the question. The schools that are doing well in London are the ones that aren't controlled by the local authorities.

    No, that's simply untrue. All types of schools in London secure results that are far better than those achieved elsewhere. London forged ahead well before Free schools and the roll-out of academies (which, of course, were largely the best performing local authority schools already).

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,284

    Stephen Kinnock is a pompous ass. Got booed defending the Labour government in Wales.

    Can another Labour bastion fall?

    No, as the opposition is too split
  • Options
    SNP hold Irvine Valley.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,748
    edited October 2015
    Lol. Corbyn the slayer of the Nats

    @britainelects: Glenrothes West & Kinglassie (Fife) result:
    SNP - 59.0% (+16.5)
    LAB - 31.9% (-9.3)
    CON - 6.2% (+3.2)
    GRN - 3.0% (+3.0)

    I'm sure there'll be someone telling us shortly the sub samples show Corbyn mullering the Nats in Scotland
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656



    No, that's simply untrue. All types of schools in London secure results that are far better than those achieved elsewhere. London forged ahead well before Free schools and the roll-out of academies (which, of course, were largely the best performing local authority schools already).

    What's the best local authority school from London and where does it come in the rankings?

    Within London, free schools and academies do a lot better than local authority schools. If they collectively do better than schools outside London, that suggests it is not the local authority making the difference, but the unique character of London.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Is Charlotte getting any applause this evening? I'm struggling to recall any.
  • Options
    I call SCon surge though.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    Stephen Kinnock is a pompous ass. Got booed defending the Labour government in Wales.

    Can another Labour bastion fall?

    No, as the opposition is too split
    That used to be true in Scotland too.
  • Options
    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Lol. Corbyn the slayer of the Nats

    @britainelects: Glenrothes West & Kinglassie (Fife) result:
    SNP - 59.0% (+16.5)
    LAB - 31.9% (-9.3)
    CON - 6.2% (+3.2)
    GRN - 3.0% (+3.0)

    I'm sure there'll be someone telling us shortly the sub samples show Corbyn mullering the Nats in Scotland

    Gordon Brown like affect of his visit. Does the J stand for Jonah after all?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Is Charlotte getting any applause this evening? I'm struggling to recall any.

    She has my full support!
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    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    SeanT said:

    Dair said:

    SeanT said:


    Absolutely right. Ask the 100s of parents who crowded into that state school tonight, desperate to get their kids into a rigid, disciplined, aspirational environment. You could see it in their eyes. My son lacks a father, my daughter lacks respect, in this school they will be guided and disciplined and, most of all, given a chance.

    It was actually quite moving.

    The school is in the top 1% in the country for science.

    Yet throughout Scandinavia, pupils succeed without this iron discipline, without uniforms or Nuns or any form of coertion.

    The problem is that you, like much of the UK, are an ideologue. You don't think beyond the narrow perspective of right and left, you equate (for some bizarre reason) the iron disciplines of a Roman education as being rightist and automatically believe it is the best.

    Whereas the reality is that it doesn't appear to matter whether the government or the education system is right or left, authoritarian or liberal. What actually matters is the engagement of parents in the education of their children.

    Chinese kids succeed, despite or because of authoritarian education because children are encouraged and/or coerced by their parents to succeed. Danish kids succeed, despite or because of the liberal education because children are encourages and/or coerced by their parents to succeed.

    The system of education does not appear to matter, what matters is the involvement or lack therefore of the parents.
    loooool. Have you ever been to China? Clearly not.

    But I have, many times. The schools basically beat the kids into submission.

    Also, you can't spell "coertion". 0/10. See Teacher.
    I stated that China uses an authoritarian education system. Yes they do coerce (oops) kids to learn but they do so with the implicit support of parents who also pay for private tuition on top of school.

    Which was my point. In both liberal and authoritarian systems kids do well when parents coerce then to do well. Your cheap shots and reliance on an Irish education system which never worked for Ireland, doesn't help your case.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    The NY Jets are playing in London.

    They are taking 350 rolls of toilet paper with them.

    Why?

    Because the UK paper is too thin for the big US lard arses.
    I remember growing up in England we had IZAL toilet paper. It was like a combination of greaseproof and tracing paper.

    It was awful.
    You had ROLLS of paper?

    Fooking luxury.

    We had to pick it out of a box sheet by sheet.

    And it wasn't absorbent, no, it was like waxed paper, shiny when new, smearing was the best you could hope for.

    Wiping?

    Fooking luxury.

    ** This is not a joke, this is actually what it was, a small rectangular box of individual, shiny, non absorbent sheets.
    That's right - I remember. It came in a green box.

    Yes, we had rolls. I was in God's Own Country - Yorkshire. Every sheet had "Now wash your hands" or something similar printed on it.
  • Options
    Charlotte Church - 'trains have become an elitist way to travel so not as much mobility'.

    Passenger numbers have DOUBLED under privatisation compared to how they were under British Rail. Seriously no grounding in reality whatsoever.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Says Charlotte with the millions in the bank.

    Charlotte Church - 'trains have become an elitist way to travel so not as much mobility'.

    Passenger numbers have DOUBLED under privatisation compared to how they were under British Rail. Seriously no grounding in reality whatsoever.

  • Options
    JEO said:



    No, that's simply untrue. All types of schools in London secure results that are far better than those achieved elsewhere. London forged ahead well before Free schools and the roll-out of academies (which, of course, were largely the best performing local authority schools already).

    What's the best local authority school from London and where does it come in the rankings?

    Within London, free schools and academies do a lot better than local authority schools. If they collectively do better than schools outside London, that suggests it is not the local authority making the difference, but the unique character of London.

    Read the article MBE linked to below. London used to get terrible results. A turnaround began in the mid-90s and accelerated during the 2000s, way before free schools and large scale academy conversions. Most London academies were previously high-performing local authority schools (as is also the case elsewhere, of course), so they are merely continuing the work they were already doing. The original academy programme was specifically designed for poorly-performing schools, but the priority changed after 2010.

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Charlotte Church - 'trains have become an elitist way to travel so not as much mobility'.

    Passenger numbers have DOUBLED under privatisation compared to how they were under British Rail. Seriously no grounding in reality whatsoever.

    Surely all PBers recognise Sunil as our elite? CC knows her stuff.
  • Options

    JEO said:



    No, that's simply untrue. All types of schools in London secure results that are far better than those achieved elsewhere. London forged ahead well before Free schools and the roll-out of academies (which, of course, were largely the best performing local authority schools already).

    What's the best local authority school from London and where does it come in the rankings?

    Within London, free schools and academies do a lot better than local authority schools. If they collectively do better than schools outside London, that suggests it is not the local authority making the difference, but the unique character of London.

    Read the article MBE linked to below. London used to get terrible results. A turnaround began in the mid-90s and accelerated during the 2000s, way before free schools and large scale academy conversions. Most London academies were previously high-performing local authority schools (as is also the case elsewhere, of course), so they are merely continuing the work they were already doing. The original academy programme was specifically designed for poorly-performing schools, but the priority changed after 2010.

    Following Thatcher's abolition of the ILEA yes.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    Tim_B said:

    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    The NY Jets are playing in London.

    They are taking 350 rolls of toilet paper with them.

    Why?

    Because the UK paper is too thin for the big US lard arses.
    I remember growing up in England we had IZAL toilet paper. It was like a combination of greaseproof and tracing paper.

    It was awful.
    You had ROLLS of paper?

    Fooking luxury.

    We had to pick it out of a box sheet by sheet.

    And it wasn't absorbent, no, it was like waxed paper, shiny when new, smearing was the best you could hope for.

    Wiping?

    Fooking luxury.

    ** This is not a joke, this is actually what it was, a small rectangular box of individual, shiny, non absorbent sheets.
    That's right - I remember. It came in a green box.

    Yes, we had rolls. I was in God's Own Country - Yorkshire. Every sheet had "Now wash your hands" or something similar printed on it.
    IZAL wasn't it?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Nigel on This Week? Time for a brandy!
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited October 2015
    Another one -

    13 people killed, 20 injured at another shooting at Umpqua Community College in Oregon. The deceased shooter was a 20 year old male.
  • Options
    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    HYUFD said:

    Stephen Kinnock is a pompous ass. Got booed defending the Labour government in Wales.

    Can another Labour bastion fall?

    No, as the opposition is too split
    Yes but when the machicolation to the bastion is Charlotte Church they do have a weakness.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    The NY Jets are playing in London.

    They are taking 350 rolls of toilet paper with them.

    Why?

    Because the UK paper is too thin for the big US lard arses.
    I remember growing up in England we had IZAL toilet paper. It was like a combination of greaseproof and tracing paper.

    It was awful.
    You had ROLLS of paper?

    Fooking luxury.

    We had to pick it out of a box sheet by sheet.

    And it wasn't absorbent, no, it was like waxed paper, shiny when new, smearing was the best you could hope for.

    Wiping?

    Fooking luxury.

    ** This is not a joke, this is actually what it was, a small rectangular box of individual, shiny, non absorbent sheets.
    That's right - I remember. It came in a green box.

    Yes, we had rolls. I was in God's Own Country - Yorkshire. Every sheet had "Now wash your hands" or something similar printed on it.
    IZAL wasn't it?
    San IZAL, yes.
  • Options

    Are you counting academies etc which are not run by the authorities?

    London schools generally significantly outperform those in the rest of the country:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19151471
    That doesn't answer the question. As the article you've linked to actually states a large number of London schools are academies as they were the most struggling and it is taking them OUT of authority control which has increased their performance.

    When a school performance goes up when it is taken out of authority control and made an academy then that does not demonstrate that the authority was managing the school well. Quite the opposite in fact! Your evidence undermines rather than supports your premise, the authority was the problem and giving power to academies rather than the authority is a working solution.

    The vast majority of London schools during the great turnaround were local authority controlled. The original academy programme was indeed designed for those schools that did not pass muster. That changed after 2010 when the focus changed to making the best performing schools academies.

  • Options

    JEO said:



    No, that's simply untrue. All types of schools in London secure results that are far better than those achieved elsewhere. London forged ahead well before Free schools and the roll-out of academies (which, of course, were largely the best performing local authority schools already).

    What's the best local authority school from London and where does it come in the rankings?

    Within London, free schools and academies do a lot better than local authority schools. If they collectively do better than schools outside London, that suggests it is not the local authority making the difference, but the unique character of London.

    Read the article MBE linked to below. London used to get terrible results. A turnaround began in the mid-90s and accelerated during the 2000s, way before free schools and large scale academy conversions. Most London academies were previously high-performing local authority schools (as is also the case elsewhere, of course), so they are merely continuing the work they were already doing. The original academy programme was specifically designed for poorly-performing schools, but the priority changed after 2010.

    Following Thatcher's abolition of the ILEA yes.

    Yep - and the transfer of responsibility to the boroughs. ILEA was poisonous. It was a very good move to abolish it.

  • Options
    SCon surge continues

    @britainelects: Irvine Valley (East Ayrshire) first preferences:
    SNP - 49.8% (+5.3)
    CON - 24.0% (+5.8)
    LAB - 23.8% (-6.3)
    GRN - 2.4% (+2.4)
  • Options
    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Farage in his element, acting the pratt on his own in front of the camera, annoying kipper conference out of the way
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Interesting that both QT audience members who work for the railways don't want it nationalised.
  • Options
    Irvine Valley (East Ayrshire) first preferences:
    SNP - 49.8% (+5.3)
    CON - 24.0% (+5.8)
    LAB - 23.8% (-6.3)
    GRN - 2.4% (+2.4)




    Labour GAIN Grimsbury & Castle (Cherwell) from Conservative

    Corbyngasm
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,408
    edited October 2015

    Glenrothes West & Kinglassie (Fife) result:
    SNP - 59.0% (+16.5)
    LAB - 31.9% (-9.3)
    CON - 6.2% (+3.2)
    GRN - 3.0% (+3.0)

    Snigger.

    Jonathan Watson ‏@C_JWatson 1 hr1 hour ago
    Same @scottishlabour source now saying "looking close". Could be an interesting night... #glenwestbyelection

    Jonathan Watson ‏@C_JWatson 3 mins3 minutes ago
    Result has stunned the #Labour team.They didn't that see that coming from the early votes.Emphatic win for #SNP #glenwestbyelection
  • Options
    Grimsbury & Castle (Cherwell) result:
    LAB - 45.0% (+5.9)
    CON - 38.1% (-7.0)
    UKIP - 8.6% (+8.6)
    LDEM - 4.2% (-1.5)
    GRN - 4.1% (-6.1)
  • Options
    @britainelects: Grimsbury & Castle (Cherwell) result:
    LAB - 45.0% (+5.9)
    CON - 38.1% (-7.0)
    UKIP - 8.6% (+8.6)
    LDEM - 4.2% (-1.5)
    GRN - 4.1% (-6.1)
  • Options
    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Says Charlotte with the millions in the bank.

    Charlotte Church - 'trains have become an elitist way to travel so not as much mobility'.

    Passenger numbers have DOUBLED under privatisation compared to how they were under British Rail. Seriously no grounding in reality whatsoever.

    I thought she had drunk it all. Are there not blue plaques to her in gutters of Cardiff's Greyfrias Rd?
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Farage making a mess of things on the Daily Politics. He's going on about how UKIP are the ones who are best representing leave, not "snobby conservatives". Putting UKIP above the Leave campaign.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    All the wrong tone - I disliked it a lot.
    JEO said:

    Farage making a mess of things on the Daily Politics. He's going on about how UKIP are the ones who are best representing leave, not "snobby conservatives". Putting UKIP above the Leave campaign.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,130

    Grimsbury & Castle (Cherwell) result:
    LAB - 45.0% (+5.9)
    CON - 38.1% (-7.0)
    UKIP - 8.6% (+8.6)
    LDEM - 4.2% (-1.5)
    GRN - 4.1% (-6.1)

    Now that's more like it - a bit of a surprise after all, and the opposition on the council up to double figures for the first time in 8 years according to Harry's piece. Splendid.

    Good night all
  • Options

    @britainelects: Grimsbury & Castle (Cherwell) result:
    LAB - 45.0% (+5.9)
    CON - 38.1% (-7.0)
    UKIP - 8.6% (+8.6)
    LDEM - 4.2% (-1.5)
    GRN - 4.1% (-6.1)

    Green vote going to labour + rise in UKIP
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,284

    HYUFD said:

    Stephen Kinnock is a pompous ass. Got booed defending the Labour government in Wales.

    Can another Labour bastion fall?

    No, as the opposition is too split
    That used to be true in Scotland too.
    Even UKIP beat Plaid in 2015
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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    IZAL, absolutely awesome tracing paper.

    Syria, some more interesting news shortly.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Looks like Kippers didn't have a candidate last time.

    @britainelects: Grimsbury & Castle (Cherwell) result:
    LAB - 45.0% (+5.9)
    CON - 38.1% (-7.0)
    UKIP - 8.6% (+8.6)
    LDEM - 4.2% (-1.5)
    GRN - 4.1% (-6.1)

    Green vote going to labour + rise in UKIP
  • Options
    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Grimsbury & Castle (Cherwell) result:
    LAB - 45.0% (+5.9)
    CON - 38.1% (-7.0)
    UKIP - 8.6% (+8.6)
    LDEM - 4.2% (-1.5)
    GRN - 4.1% (-6.1)

    Everyone's in Manchester!
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    All the wrong tone - I disliked it a lot.

    JEO said:

    Farage making a mess of things on the Daily Politics. He's going on about how UKIP are the ones who are best representing leave, not "snobby conservatives". Putting UKIP above the Leave campaign.

    The man does not seem to have the self-awareness to realise that trashing the people you want making the case alongside you is a mistake. It's all about him and UKIP.
  • Options
    Get over yourselves!!!!!!

    Great handbags on tw.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Nigel is absolutely awful - I usually quite like him, he's showing himself up terribly.

    Get over yourselves!!!!!!

    Great handbags on tw.

  • Options
    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    @britainelects: Grimsbury & Castle (Cherwell) result:
    LAB - 45.0% (+5.9)
    CON - 38.1% (-7.0)
    UKIP - 8.6% (+8.6)
    LDEM - 4.2% (-1.5)
    GRN - 4.1% (-6.1)

    Green vote going to labour + rise in UKIP
    Only the first preference, when is the final result out !!!!?☺
  • Options
    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Get over yourselves!!!!!!

    Great handbags on tw.

    They are invoking Sarah Brightman and er...Hot Gossip aren't they? Cannot be bad.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Watching Tw 30 mins behind... Agree w Portillo re slavery payment... Morally we owe them a lot of compensation
  • Options
    isam said:

    Watching Tw 30 mins behind... Agree w Portillo re slavery payment... Morally we owe them a lot of compensation

    Will they hand over all those gold medals to African countries?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Watching Tw 30 mins behind... Agree w Portillo re slavery payment... Morally we owe them a lot of compensation

    Will they hand over all those gold medals to African countries?
    I think they've had a raw enough deal...

    What is the Balzac quote? ' behind every great fortune is a crime forgotten.'

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,284

    Glenrothes West & Kinglassie (Fife) result:
    SNP - 59.0% (+16.5)
    LAB - 31.9% (-9.3)
    CON - 6.2% (+3.2)
    GRN - 3.0% (+3.0)

    Snigger.

    Jonathan Watson ‏@C_JWatson 1 hr1 hour ago
    Same @scottishlabour source now saying "looking close". Could be an interesting night... #glenwestbyelection

    Jonathan Watson ‏@C_JWatson 3 mins3 minutes ago
    Result has stunned the #Labour team.They didn't that see that coming from the early votes.Emphatic win for #SNP #glenwestbyelection
    When comparing Scottish results it should be remembered that in 2012 when these seats were last up the SNP were on 32% and Labour on 31% and the Tories 13%. In May the SNP were on 50%, Labour 24% and the Tories 14%, so even if the SNP had fallen back a little since the general election they should still be seeing big swings towards them in council by-elections
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_local_elections,_2012
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    isam said:

    Watching Tw 30 mins behind... Agree w Portillo re slavery payment... Morally we owe them a lot of compensation

    I am fairly sympathetic too. Though it is worth remembering that the Africans involuntarily exiled to the Americas do generally have higher incomes and other measures of development than those who stayed in Africa.

    Slavery was a horrific crime, and a trade that Britain was at the centre of, though also the centre of suppressing it.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2015
    Well I'm a big Farage fan and also a huge Portillo fan and all I can say from this exchange is that Nigel doesn't look all that well
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    isam said:

    Well I'm a big Farage fan and also a huge Portiloo fan and all I can say from this exchange is that Nigel doesn't look all that well

    I don't get the tactics at all - is it the money men talking ?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    isam said:

    Well I'm a big Farage fan and also a huge Portiloo fan and all I can say from this exchange is that Nigel doesn't look all that well

    He looked grey and walked very stiffly. Farage leading the Out campaign (and just try and stop him!) Could make all the difference for the Inners.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2015
    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    Well I'm a big Farage fan and also a huge Portiloo fan and all I can say from this exchange is that Nigel doesn't look all that well

    I don't get the tactics at all - is it the money men talking ?
    I really don't know, but I think Farage should be trying to come across as more friendly and less angry than he did here. I've said many times I think Portillo should lead the out campaign, he has the charm and manner, and also political nous yet detachment, to persuade the average undecided.

    Maybe Arron Banks money is holding ukip together? I don't know. If that's the case then I guess it's understsndable Farage is singing this tune, but I think we need a far more centrist and measured tone to win... Nigel can rouse the ukip faithful and should be proud of his part in getting the referendum on the table. More than most of us can say we've done with our lives... To work twd a goal of this magnitude and get a shot at it
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