Corbyn's election seems more like a sign of engagement and hope, to me. This isn't people giving up on politics, this is people believing they can use it to change things.
If there was disillusionment and disengagement, it was in the cynical realism that saw people accepting Blairite/Brownite control of the party because it was seen as the only possibility. Corbyn represents an outbreak of reckless and probably foolhardy hope.
The left's bubble exceeds even Westminster's in the creation of a barrier so impermeable to outside influence that it thinks that the vast majority of people outside its bubble thinks just like them. In the context of GE2015, that means that Labour was robbed at the last election, not because most people don't actually think like them but because they were not true enough to what those inside the left bubble think, having been fooled by the media into thinking they needed to be more centrist. Comrades, the way forward is more leftist.
JC and his ragbag followers are now not susceptible to advice from anyone other than fellow travellers. Their electoral demise is inevitable and Labour must beware of JC's siren song.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
Why do you assume that people who vote Conservative are not aware of the problems of those with mental illness? This affects people in all classes.
All sorts of people may be affected by unemployment, illness, crime etc. It does not follow that because you vote Tory you aren't affected. It may be that you vote that way because you think that they are more likely than the other lot to help resolve the problems.
Totally O/T, but more cheerful news: From the Telegraph:
"New species of deadly 'sit-and-wait' snake discovered in Australia"
Australia is just such an amazing place. Not only do they have the largest number of deadly species in the world but they are still finding new ones. Furthermore, there seems to be no reason why so many of their creatures have developed venom many, many times more toxic than is required to kill their prey.
When it comes to the theory of evolution Australia causes so many problems and is all round unique.
How do we explain their ability at cricket for example? Its weird.
Ha humph. That made me smile and frown at the same time---a bit like singing and smiling simultaneously.
Every generation thinks they have it tough. But really speak to those who had to live through the war: my mother celebrated her 17th birthday in August 1944 in Rome, having been separated from her family and having endured years of bombing in Naples. Not worrying about which degree course to take.
Those who graduated in the early 1980's graduated into a recession.
Before 1979 you couldn't take money out of the country - a bit of a bar to travelling here, there and everywhere.
There are significant issues to deal with but the moaning by the young as if they have or will have a tougher time than previous generations, when life has improved immeasurably over the last 30 years, let alone by comparison with the previous 30, lacks a sense of proportion, frankly.
I graduated in '78, first real job in '79, remained pretty much fully employed since then. I suppose I dodged several bullets!
My father was wounded in Burma and spent 3 years there fighting the Japanese. My mother was bombed in London. They both survived , married and survived REAL austerity - imagine food rationing and a Chancellor who increased taxes "to reduce consumer demand".. When I see lots of obesity - 60% of UK adults are obese, and drinking .,.. and mobile phones - I see not austerity but warped priorities..
(and in reply --) Massive waste of food thrown away and people pointlessly buying overpriced convenience foods.
Mr. Flaming Picky would like to point out that buying overpriced convenience food is not pointless. The clue is in the name - one pays the premium for the convenience.
Whether people, especially those on low incomes, are making the right choice in choosing convenience over price is another matter. One might think that if someone is not working, for example, then a better choice might be to spend the time, of which they have in plenty, in preparing food from basic ingredients and thus saving the money. However, who are we to judge another's priorities?
People will always make the best choice for themselves given the resources (including knowledge and skills) that they have.
The Labour party must dig deep into roots if it is to survive. The Blairites cannot do it, they are finished now. The far left is triumphant but they are a tiny force in the Parliamentary Labour Party, and nowhere near as popular in the country as their deluded supporters imagine.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
"it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity."
That's a rather one-dimensional and crass depiction of mental illness.
But, compared with much of the last fifty years, mostly people seem pretty content:
Christ. You haven't got a clue! Go and talk to teachers, health workers, people trying to get on the housing ladder, students not to mention people forced to use food banks, pound shops, wonga dealers ... the list could go on.
You left out the nurses, the lovely nurses, the lovely voting nurses, the lovely Labour voting nurses.
But, compared with much of the last fifty years, mostly people seem pretty content:
Christ. You haven't got a clue! Go and talk to teachers, health workers, people trying to get on the housing ladder, students not to mention people forced to use food banks, pound shops, wonga dealers ... the list could go on.
Where were all these outraged citizens last May ?
Incapable of voting for that arse Ed Miliband or the traitorous Nick Clegg. By the way, where is Clegg?!!
The MSM have failed to gauge the mood. We all just needed someone worthy to follow.
You need to think carefully about who exactly you mean by "we all".
You then need to go and have a detailed, analytical look at the demographic makeup of Britain. (Your friends, your colleagues, your family, people you know on facebook, people who live near you that you know of... forget all about them. They're anecdotal, unrepresentative. You need to look at the big picture: millions of people, not hundreds or thousands. For that you need cold hard statistics.).
60% of 425,000 of 500,000 eligible lalala.
But, and I know this will seem arrogant, I'm more in tune with ordinary people than 90% of people on this site.
You need to wake up and smell the cappuchino. There's a sea-change taking place. No wonder the media are running around like the proverbial headless.
I assume I have come to the wrong blog and this is for children.
You must have seen his nonsense before. Just smile and move on.
You have to ask why 90% of the refugees from Syria are young fit men. What on earth was Merkel thinking. I wonder if Bob Geldof fancies some of those lads on the roof in his home?
But, compared with much of the last fifty years, mostly people seem pretty content:
Christ. You haven't got a clue! Go and talk to teachers, health workers, people trying to get on the housing ladder, students not to mention people forced to use food banks, pound shops, wonga dealers ... the list could go on.
You left out the nurses, the lovely nurses, the lovely voting nurses, the lovely Labour voting nurses.
But, compared with much of the last fifty years, mostly people seem pretty content:
Christ. You haven't got a clue! Go and talk to teachers, health workers, people trying to get on the housing ladder, students not to mention people forced to use food banks, pound shops, wonga dealers ... the list could go on.
Where were all these outraged citizens last May ?
Incapable of voting for that arse Ed Miliband or the traitorous Nick Clegg. By the way, where is Clegg?!!
The MSM have failed to gauge the mood. We all just needed someone worthy to follow.
You need to think carefully about who exactly you mean by "we all".
You then need to go and have a detailed, analytical look at the demographic makeup of Britain. (Your friends, your colleagues, your family, people you know on facebook, people who live near you that you know of... forget all about them. They're anecdotal, unrepresentative. You need to look at the big picture: millions of people, not hundreds or thousands. For that you need cold hard statistics.).
60% of 425,000 of 500,000 eligible lalala.
But, and I know this will seem arrogant, I'm more in tune with ordinary people than 90% of people on this site.
You need to wake up and smell the cappuchino. There's a sea-change taking place. No wonder the media are running around like the proverbial headless.
I assume I have come to the wrong blog and this is for children.
Does remind me of the euphoria in the US among students when Obama become the candidate. Of course, Corbyn is no Obama, but even so, just 4 years later youth enthusiasm for Obama was much reduced. Now 'Hope and Change' is only a tired joke.
The Labour party must dig deep into roots if it is to survive. The Blairites cannot do it, they are finished now. The far left is triumphant but they are a tiny force in the Parliamentary Labour Party, and nowhere near as popular in the country as their deluded supporters imagine.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
My wife helps with food collection for banks. She happens to know some of the people who collect food form the banks. A few of f their issues appear to be self inflicted.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severe hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
Why do you assume that people who vote Conservative are not aware of the problems of those with mental illness? This affects people in all classes.
All sorts of people may be affected by unemployment, illness, crime etc. It does not follow that because you vote Tory you aren't affected. It may be that you vote that way because you think that they are more likely than the other lot to help resolve the problems.
When I was writing about those going through severe hardship I was thinking of those going through financial problems as well as suffering mental illness. And while on an individual basis your second point may be true, generally most of those in the D/E class/the poorest in society do not vote Conservative. I can't say whether those who vote Conservative really believe voting such will help those most vulnerable - I'm simply saying that there are those out there who are affected by austerity.
You have to ask why 90% of the refugees from Syria are young fit men. What on earth was Merkel thinking. I wonder if Bob Geldof fancies some of those lads on the roof in his home?
Every generation thinks they have it tough. But really speak to those who had to live through the war: my mother celebrated her 17th birthday in August 1944 in Rome, having been separated from her family and having endured years of bombing in Naples. Not worrying about which degree course to take.
Those who graduated in the early 1980's graduated into a recession.
Before 1979 you couldn't take money out of the country - a bit of a bar to travelling here, there and everywhere.
There are significant issues to deal with but the moaning by the young as if they have or will have a tougher time than previous generations, when life has improved immeasurably over the last 30 years, let alone by comparison with the previous 30, lacks a sense of proportion, frankly.
I graduated in '78, first real job in '79, remained pretty much fully employed since then. I suppose I dodged several bullets!
My father was wounded in Burma and spent 3 years there fighting the Japanese. My mother was bombed in London. They both survived , married and survived REAL austerity - imagine food rationing and a Chancellor who increased taxes "to reduce consumer demand"..
When I see lots of obesity - 60% of UK adults are obese, and drinking .,.. and mobile phones - I see not austerity but warped priorities..
In response to the above:-
I agree. My mother and her family knew real hunger. Read Norman Lewis's "Naples 44" (IMO one of the best war books ever written) to learn what it was like. And there were no food banks. If you were caught with black market food, you could and would be shot.
The flat I grew up in had no central heating. Now people moan if their download speeds aren't fast enough.
I have 3 children. I worry about their prospects, of course I do, and I think there are real issues. But in this part of the world at this time they are fantastically lucky to have the opportunities they have and to have grown up in a country without war and without being in the shadow of war. That is very different to previous generations; indeed the last generation of which it could be said would be the late Victorians/Edwardians.
I grew up in rationing. My mother ate bread and dripping (meat fat) for at least two meals a week so my brother and I could eat. (I like dripping)
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
"it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity."
That's a rather one-dimensional and crass depiction of mental illness.
I don't quite get how my statement is one-dimensional or crass. Explain?
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
My wife helps with food collection for banks. She happens to know some of the people who collect food form the banks. A few of f their issues appear to be self inflicted.
To be fair, that's quite a small sample. I don't doubt those individual cases, but I think it would be unfair to conclude it's the case for most/all those were are poor.
Every generation thinks they have it tough. But really speak to those who had to live through the war: my mother celebrated her 17th birthday in August 1944 in Rome, having been separated from her family and having endured years of bombing in Naples. Not worrying about which degree course to take.
Those who graduated in the early 1980's graduated into a recession.
Before 1979 you couldn't take money out of the country - a bit of a bar to travelling here, there and everywhere.
There are significant issues to deal with but the moaning by the young as if they have or will have a tougher time than previous generations, when life has improved immeasurably over the last 30 years, let alone by comparison with the previous 30, lacks a sense of proportion, frankly.
I graduated in '78, first real job in '79, remained pretty much fully employed since then. I suppose I dodged several bullets!
My father was wounded in Burma and spent 3 years there fighting the Japanese. My mother was bombed in London. They both survived , married and survived REAL austerity - imagine food rationing and a Chancellor who increased taxes "to reduce consumer demand"..
When I see lots of obesity - 60% of UK adults are obese, and drinking .,.. and mobile phones - I see not austerity but warped priorities..
In response to the above:-
I agree. My mother and her family knew real hunger. Read Norman Lewis's "Naples 44" (IMO one of the best war books ever written) to learn what it was like. And there were no food banks. If you were caught with black market food, you could and would be shot.
The flat I grew up in had no central heating. Now people moan if their download speeds aren't fast enough.
I have 3 children. I worry about their prospects, of course I do, and I think there are real issues. But in this part of the world at this time they are fantastically lucky to have the opportunities they have and to have grown up in a country without war and without being in the shadow of war. That is very different to previous generations; indeed the last generation of which it could be said would be the late Victorians/Edwardians.
I grew up in rationing. My mother ate bread and dripping (meat fat) for at least two meals a week so my brother and I could eat. (I like dripping)
Dripping, particularly from grilled pork chops, was my mother's favorite - quite heavily salted. Lemon rinds with salt was another of her favorites.
I still think of her each time I mop up the best bits of dripping from a roast chicken with a piece of bread.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
Why do you think that only people dependent on the state suffer from real hardship? There are an awful lot of people with cars jobs and mortgages that struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day and for whom holidays and luxuries (booze, meals out etc.) are beyond reach.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
Why do you think that only people dependent on the state suffer from real hardship? There are an awful lot of people with cars jobs and mortgages that struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day and for whom holidays and luxuries (booze, meals out etc.) are beyond reach.
Was a real pleasure to ask him to write a piece for PB.
Nope. He is an idiot.
Whereas the most intelligent contribution to ever come out of you left a brown stain on the toilet bowl.
Dear Dear , how coarse TSE, have you joined the oafs. Even allowing for the provocation that is bad form.
Turnip Curry
Ingredients
◦1/4 cup vegetable oil ◦1 tablespoon black mustard seeds ◦1 tablespoon finely chopped garlic ◦1 small red onion, finely chopped ◦1 fresh green chile pepper (such as serrano) seeded and minced ◦1 teaspoon ground cumin ◦1 tablespoon ground coriander ◦1 medium tomato, peeled, seeded, and finely chopped ◦1 pound tender turnips, peeled and cut into 1-inch pieces ◦1 cup unsweetened coconut milk ◦1/2 teaspoon ground turmeric ◦1 teaspoon salt ◦1 cup water ◦1/4 cup chopped fresh dill, for garnish
Instructions
Heat the oil in a heavy-bottom skillet over medium heat. Add the mustard seeds and cook until crackling, about 2 minutes. Add the garlic, onion, and green chile and cook until onion turns golden brown, 4 to 5 minutes. Stir in the cumin, coriander, and tomato and cook, 5 to 7 minutes. Add the turnips, coconut milk, turmeric, and salt and mix until all the ingredients are well combined. Add water and cook, stirring occasionally, until the turnips are cooked, 15 to 20 minutes. Increase the heat to high and cook until any remaining water is evaporated, about 3 minutes.
Serve hot, garnished with dill.
Lovely, a good few on here could do with that.
I love turnips! Wouldn't put vegetable oil in a curry though, much better with butter - the Indians don't revere the cow for nothing.
In my opinion, with Turnips, oats (much more nourishing than wheat), haggis (very nourishing) all traditional Scottish dishes, the Scottish diet used to be full of superfoods and it doesn't surprise me that at one stage the Scottish were said to be taller than the English.
You have to ask why 90% of the refugees from Syria are young fit men. What on earth was Merkel thinking. I wonder if Bob Geldof fancies some of those lads on the roof in his home?
Yes, hands up who wants to put up one of the 'Allahu Akbar' crowd in their house?
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
Why do you think that only people dependent on the state suffer from real hardship? There are an awful lot of people with cars jobs and mortgages that struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day and for whom holidays and luxuries (booze, meals out etc.) are beyond reach.
BIB: I wouldn't say that qualifies as real hardship. It's not a big deal if you can't pay for holidays and luxuries. I'm thinking of people struggling to even pay for basic things like food, electricity etc.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
Why do you assume that people who vote Conservative are not aware of the problems of those with mental illness? This affects people in all classes.
All sorts of people may be affected by unemployment, illness, crime etc. It does not follow that because you vote Tory you aren't affected. It may be that you vote that way because you think that they are more likely than the other lot to help resolve the problems.
The idea that people who vote Conservative do not know hardship or anyone who has been affected by hardship is a bizarre one. Many Conservative voters lived through the 1970s and know just how much hardship socialism causes. A large number of them had to work hard to climb out of difficult starting circumstances and were only able to thanks to Thatcher's reforms. Then there are those of us who are involved in charity work, often due to our faith background.
The problem the left seems to have is that they either do not know many Conservatives, or they are so self-righteous in how they discuss politics that friends with Tory tendencies refrain from opening up about being so.
A surprising 95% approval rate for Jezza's PMQs amongst Guardian readers.
But they did let this slip through:
"When I received a Labour party email asking for questions to be posed to the prime minister this week, all I could think of was: ‘Prime Minister, can you believe your luck?’ "
v amusing.
I don't find that surprising at all. There are many, many Corbyn supporters who spend their time bigging him up all over the interwebs. Their slacktivism will surely extend to clicking on the Guardian website.
I'm sorry.
I need to work on my sarcasm in print. No indeed it is not surprising. CiF thought they had collectively died and gone to heaven upon the appointment of Jezza. Of his entry into the leadership contest, for that matter.
I mean look at @Estobar - I'm sure he did his apprenticeship over there and look how incisive and acute his posts are.*
*note: more sarcasm.
Perhaps it is I who should be more attuned to sarcasm (considering how often I am sarcastic)
Estobar is just one in a long line of trolls who have come and gone on here. I just wish I could get the widget to work properly - but it isn't great with Chrome.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
My wife helps with food collection for banks. She happens to know some of the people who collect food form the banks. A few of f their issues appear to be self inflicted.
To be fair, that's quite a small sample. I don't doubt those individual cases, but I think it would be unfair to conclude it's the case for most/all those were are poor.
I never said it was.. I don't doubt for a minute there are real cases of hardship. (Single parents with young children must be on the edge all the time).
But at the same time, there appear to be a disproportionate number of smokers.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
"it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity."
That's a rather one-dimensional and crass depiction of mental illness.
I don't quite get how my statement is one-dimensional or crass. Explain?
Is everyone with mental illness dependent on state services, or indeed affected by austerity? No. In fact, I'd argue that the majority of mental illness never get touched by state services, because they remain hidden.
People suffering from mental illness - even at an extreme level - can remain functioning in society so friends, family and colleagues do not know they are suffering. And when state services do get involved, even with the best of intentions and financing, they can make the situation for an individual worse.
Regular readers for more than a couple of years standing may be able to guess why this sort of thing annoys me so much.
"I grew up in rationing. My mother ate bread and dripping (meat fat) for at least two meals a week so my brother and I could eat. (I like dripping)
Dripping, particularly from grilled pork chops, was my mother's favorite - quite heavily salted. Lemon rinds with salt was another of her favorites.
I still think of her each time I mop up the best bits of dripping from a roast chicken with a piece of bread."
I think dripping is a darn sight better for you that hydrogenated oils (transfats), which should have been banished by law 30 yrs ago. I'm no expert, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that transfats have contributed to ill health and deaths to a degree rivalling the motor car.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
Why do you think that only people dependent on the state suffer from real hardship? There are an awful lot of people with cars jobs and mortgages that struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day and for whom holidays and luxuries (booze, meals out etc.) are beyond reach.
My wife and I saved up to buy a house in the 1970s. We did not drink or smoke, owned no TV, took no holidays and ran a 10 year old rusty Mini Estate.. Then we had children and still had no spare cash..and struggled.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
My wife helps with food collection for banks. She happens to know some of the people who collect food form the banks. A few of f their issues appear to be self inflicted.
The problem the left seems to have is that they either do not know many Conservatives, or they are so self-righteous in how they discuss politics that friends with Tory tendencies refrain from opening up about being so.
It's easier to just keep quiet. But then, they take that as acquiescence with their position!
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
"it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity."
That's a rather one-dimensional and crass depiction of mental illness.
I don't quite get how my statement is one-dimensional or crass. Explain?
Dear Dear you have opened the flood gates now, prepare to be deluged
We are in danger of descending into four Yorkshiremen territory, but I never knew that eating dripping was a sign of poverty. My mother "made" her own, as did her mother before her, and we were served it for Sunday tea almost every week and loved it (Look away any doctors - dripping on toast with salt, fantastic!). If there was any left over I would fight my brother and sister for it on the Monday.
Dripping still seemed to have its rightful place in Yorkshire in the late nineties. When going for the office sandwiches in Wakefield (all the locally employed staff were busy so I volunteered) the lady in the butchers took my order and asked, "Do ye want butter or mucky fat?". After I got a translation, I found that they offered a choice of spread on the bread one could have butter or dripping - now olive oil based or margarine low-fat nonsense for them. All the sandwich fillings were meat of course and not a scrap of rabbit food to be had.
The idea that people who vote Conservative do not know hardship or anyone who has been affected by hardship is a bizarre one. Many Conservative voters lived through the 1970s and know just how much hardship socialism causes. A large number of them had to work hard to climb out of difficult starting circumstances and were only able to thanks to Thatcher's reforms. Then there are those of us who are involved in charity work, often due to our faith background.
The problem the left seems to have is that they either do not know many Conservatives, or they are so self-righteous in how they discuss politics that friends with Tory tendencies refrain from opening up about being so.
I was thinking of those knowing people going through hardship now, as opposed to the past - thus the reference to austerity. And many Labour voters, courtesy of the Thatcher years know just how much hardship Conservatism causes. I'm sure those struggling today know that only too well. It's not about knowing many Conservatives, or being self-righteous, but that simply many on the Right have dismissed the idea that any kind of hardship is going on right now - which suggests that they don't know, or see anyone going through hardship. It's also down to most Conservatives not being among the poorest in society, and that people generally socialise with those of a similar social class/background to them. Given that the Church in recent years - notably the former Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams - have been very critical of government polices - it's not always obvious that Conservatives will be involved in faith-based charities to help the most vulnerable.
Every generation thinks they have it tough. But really speak to those who had to live through the war: my mother celebrated her 17th birthday in August 1944 in Rome, having been separated from her family and having endured years of bombing in Naples. Not worrying about which degree course to take.
Those who graduated in the early 1980's graduated into a recession.
Before 1979 you couldn't take money out of the country - a bit of a bar to travelling here, there and everywhere.
There are significant issues to deal with but the moaning by the young as if they have or will have a tougher time than previous generations, when life has improved immeasurably over the last 30 years, let alone by comparison with the previous 30, lacks a sense of proportion, frankly.
I graduated in '78, first real job in '79, remained pretty much fully employed since then. I suppose I dodged several bullets!
My father was wounded in Burma and spent 3 years there fighting the Japanese. My mother was bombed in London. They both survived , married and survived REAL austerity - imagine food rationing and a Chancellor who increased taxes "to reduce consumer demand"..
When I see lots of obesity - 60% of UK adults are obese, and drinking .,.. and mobile phones - I see not austerity but warped priorities..
In response to the above:-
I agree. My mother and her family knew real hunger. Read Norman Lewis's "Naples 44" (IMO one of the best war books ever written) to learn what it was like. And there were no food banks. If you were caught with black market food, you could and would be shot.
The flat I grew up in had no central heating. Now people moan if their download speeds aren't fast enough.
be said would be the late Victorians/Edwardians.
I grew up in rationing. My mother ate bread and dripping (meat fat) for at least two meals a week so my brother and I could eat. (I like dripping)
Dripping, particularly from grilled pork chops, was my mother's favorite - quite heavily salted. Lemon rinds with salt was another of her favorites.
I still think of her each time I mop up the best bits of dripping from a roast chicken with a piece of bread.
It is all getting very nostalgic on here today , who will be first to say they used to have to go up chimneys as a lad
It terms of affordability I think that food is as cheap as it has ever been in my lifetime. With some clever shopping (getting the bargains at Tescos etc) it is amazing how much food you can get for £10. You can buy a 2kg bag of pasta for less than a quid and a tin of tomatoes for 20pence. You couldn't do that 20 years ago even allowing for inflation. I could easily feed a family of 4 for a week for £10. Everyday tescos sell stuff that is going out of date for 10pence or less. I regularly go and see what bargains I can get.
It is all getting very nostalgic on here today , who will be first to say they used to have to go up chimneys as a lad
I did!
Sudbury Hall Museum of Childhood used to have a chimney that kids could go up. I went up it when I was a wee nipper. I'm half-surprised they let me out again.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severe hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
Why do you assume that people who vote Conservative are not aware of the problems of those with mental illness? This affects people in all classes.
All sorts of people may be affected by unemployment, illness, crime etc. It does not follow that because you vote Tory you aren't affected. It may be that you vote that way because you think that they are more likely than the other lot to help resolve the problems.
When I was writing about those going through severe hardship I was thinking of those going through financial problems as well as suffering mental illness. And while on an individual basis your second point may be true, generally most of those in the D/E class/the poorest in society do not vote Conservative. I can't say whether those who vote Conservative really believe voting such will help those most vulnerable - I'm simply saying that there are those out there who are affected by austerity.
I don't deny that there are people who are affected and we should be doing our level best to help them. I don't like, though, the lazy assumption that some make that if you vote Conservative you don't care about helping the worst off in society. No political party has a monopoly on virtue.
When I was writing about those going through severe hardship I was thinking of those going through financial problems as well as suffering mental illness. And while on an individual basis your second point may be true, generally most of those in the D/E class/the poorest in society do not vote Conservative. I can't say whether those who vote Conservative really believe voting such will help those most vulnerable - I'm simply saying that there are those out there who are affected by austerity.
Ms Apocalypse. I think the fairest approach in political discourse is to assume others who disagree with you do so out of the same good intentions as you had in arriving at your own political convictions, until such time as they prove otherwise.
For me, I assume that conviction politicians from both the Tories and Labour both want maximum prosperity for Britain. Where they differ is in relation to how to achieve it and, to a lesser extent, what society should look like once optimal policies have been adopted and have had time to have their full effect.
To me, as a fiscal conservative more of the Austrian school then either Keynes or Chicago, the emphasis of policies should be to create an environment conducive to entrepreneurial endeavour, opportunity, and removal of barriers to full participation in education and the workforce. I.e. my emphasis is more of maximizing the pot and enabling all to have a go at grabbing their share - this includes the Ds and Es - so my emphasis is on the efficiency of the economy, with equity addressed more through enabling participation and opportunity than through redistribution (although some of the latter is required)
Of course, the emphasis on 'efficiency' should not be unchecked - we have to adapt policies to recognize public goods and bads, other externalities, unlevel playing fields and information imbalances. This is where the equity part of the equation comes in for me.
And even if you want to boil this discussion down to purely political terms, as a Tory I wouldn't be writing off people in D and E because they consistently vote Labour, but be seeking to enable as many of their number as possible to climb up into the Cs, Bs and As and switch their vote, based not only on self-interest but in the belief that the economic policies pursued were the right ones.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
Why do you think that only people dependent on the state suffer from real hardship? There are an awful lot of people with cars jobs and mortgages that struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day and for whom holidays and luxuries (booze, meals out etc.) are beyond reach.
My wife and I saved up to buy a house in the 1970s. We did not drink or smoke, owned no TV, took no holidays and ran a 10 year old rusty Mini Estate.. Then we had children and still had no spare cash..and struggled.
I don't have a great deal of sympathy...
So you want the poor to have as crap a time as you had then
Sudbury Hall Museum of Childhood used to have a chimney that kids could go up! I went up it when I was a wee nipper! I'm half-surprised they met me out again. "
Mr. Royale, I remember being surprised to hear some (I think Simon Hughes was amongst them, but there were others) taking a very hard line. But then, the rampant criminality was happening near them.
Mr. Llama, I extended the life of my previous pair of gloves by 3-4 years by sewing up seams and darning [badly] a patch on the thumb. And I occasionally re-hem the trousers of my jeans with a blanket stitch [although that pair of jeans will probably need chucking due to the knee disintegrating].
And, as previously mentioned, my bedroom was small enough to apparently mean I was homeless/deprived, according to some daft charity definition.
''I was thinking of those knowing people going through hardship now, as opposed to the past - thus the reference to austerity. And many Labour voters, courtesy of the Thatcher years know just how much hardship Conservatism causes.''
Fatcha!!! Change the record. Life was just as tough in the 1970s when labour at least partly ruled. Every heard of the three day week? Bankrupt Britain in 76? 20% inflation? the Winter of Discontent?
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
"it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity."
That's a rather one-dimensional and crass depiction of mental illness.
I don't quite get how my statement is one-dimensional or crass. Explain?
Is everyone with mental illness dependent on state services, or indeed affected by austerity? No. In fact, I'd argue that the majority of mental illness never get touched by state services, because they remain hidden.
People suffering from mental illness - even at an extreme level - can remain functioning in society so friends, family and colleagues do not know they are suffering. And when state services do get involved, even with the best of intentions and financing, they can make the situation for an individual worse.
Regular readers for more than a couple of years standing may be able to guess why this sort of thing annoys me so much.
I didn't mean to imply everyone affected by mental illness was affected by austerity - just that they are more likely be affected - as they are, in theory more likely to be dependent on state services. Of course, there are many whose illness goes unidentified. But then I was thinking of those who were ill who may have suffered due to cuts - thus, they are directly affected by austerity.
It terms of affordability I think that food is as cheap as it has ever been in my lifetime. With some clever shopping (getting the bargains at Tescos etc) it is amazing how much food you can get for £10. You can buy a 2kg bag of pasta for less than a quid and a tin of tomatoes for 20pence. You couldn't do that 20 years ago even allowing for inflation. I could easily feed a family of 4 for a week for £10. Everyday tescos sell stuff that is going out of date for 10pence or less. I regularly go and see what bargains I can get.
The term poverty is definitely relative
LOL, you must be eating pig swill at those prices. Also eating sacks of pasta and such like is what makes the poor people fat. Crap diet by having to buy cheap muck. If you had said £10 a day I may have believed it.
When I was writing about those going through severe hardship I was thinking of those going through financial problems as well as suffering mental illness. And while on an individual basis your second point may be true, generally most of those in the D/E class/the poorest in society do not vote Conservative. I can't say whether those who vote Conservative really believe voting such will help those most vulnerable - I'm simply saying that there are those out there who are affected by austerity.
Ms Apocalypse. I think the fairest approach in political discourse is to assume others who disagree with you do so out of the same good intentions as you had in arriving at your own political convictions, until such time as they prove otherwise.
For me, I assume that conviction politicians from both the Tories and Labour both want maximum prosperity for Britain. Where they differ is in relation to how to achieve it and, to a lesser extent, what society should look like once optimal policies have been adopted and have had time to have their full effect.
To me, as a fiscal conservative more of the Austrian school then either Keynes or Chicago, the emphasis of policies should be to create an environment conducive to entrepreneurial endeavour, opportunity, and removal of barriers to full participation in education and the workforce. I.e. my emphasis is more of maximizing the pot and enabling all to have a go at grabbing their share - this includes the Ds and Es - so my emphasis is on the efficiency of the economy, with equity addressed more through enabling participation and opportunity than through redistribution (although some of the latter is required)
Of course, the emphasis on 'efficiency' should not be unchecked - we have to adapt policies to recognize public goods and bads, other externalities, unlevel playing fields and information imbalances. This is where the equity part of the equation comes in for me.
And even if you want to boil this discussion down to purely political terms, as a Tory I wouldn't be writing off people in D and E because they consistently vote Labour, but be seeking to enable as many of their number as possible to climb up into the Cs, Bs and As and switch their vote, based not only on self-interest but in the belief that the economic policies pursued were the right ones.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
Why do you think that only people dependent on the state suffer from real hardship? There are an awful lot of people with cars jobs and mortgages that struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day and for whom holidays and luxuries (booze, meals out etc.) are beyond reach.
BIB: I wouldn't say that qualifies as real hardship. It's not a big deal if you can't pay for holidays and luxuries. I'm thinking of people struggling to even pay for basic things like food, electricity etc.
Did you actually read my post: which part of, "Struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day" do you think not qualifies as real hardship? Is it perhaps that people who struggle to pay for food and the basics from their earnings,as opposed to living on state support, are somehow not genuinely hard-up?
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
Why do you think that only people dependent on the state suffer from real hardship? There are an awful lot of people with cars jobs and mortgages that struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day and for whom holidays and luxuries (booze, meals out etc.) are beyond reach.
My wife and I saved up to buy a house in the 1970s. We did not drink or smoke, owned no TV, took no holidays and ran a 10 year old rusty Mini Estate.. Then we had children and still had no spare cash..and struggled.
I don't have a great deal of sympathy...
So you want the poor to have as crap a time as you had then
No, just give everyone free money, without working or saving or taking responsibility, that will work a treat. Rather than going to food banks people can just queue up outside the Bank of England and be given the money that Corbyn wants the bank to print. I cant see any downside.
It is all getting very nostalgic on here today , who will be first to say they used to have to go up chimneys as a lad
I did!
Sudbury Hall Museum of Childhood used to have a chimney that kids could go up. I went up it when I was a wee nipper. I'm half-surprised they let me out again.
Mr. Royale, none of the broadcast media appear to have mentioned the polling at all, possibly because it's completely opposed to the broadcast media's own view.
"I grew up in rationing. My mother ate bread and dripping (meat fat) for at least two meals a week so my brother and I could eat. (I like dripping)
Dripping, particularly from grilled pork chops, was my mother's favorite - quite heavily salted. Lemon rinds with salt was another of her favorites.
I still think of her each time I mop up the best bits of dripping from a roast chicken with a piece of bread."
I think dripping is a darn sight better for you that hydrogenated oils (transfats), which should have been banished by law 30 yrs ago. I'm no expert, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that transfats have contributed to ill health and deaths to a degree rivalling the motor car.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
Why do you think that only people dependent on the state suffer from real hardship? There are an awful lot of people with cars jobs and mortgages that struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day and for whom holidays and luxuries (booze, meals out etc.) are beyond reach.
BIB: I wouldn't say that qualifies as real hardship. It's not a big deal if you can't pay for holidays and luxuries. I'm thinking of people struggling to even pay for basic things like food, electricity etc.
Did you actually read my post: which part of, "Struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day" do you think not qualifies as real hardship? Is it perhaps that people who struggle to pay for food and the basics from their earnings,as opposed to living on state support, are somehow not genuinely hard-up?
Plenty on benefits that are well better off than people working or pensioners that worked all their lives.
I've only just seen the scenes from the Serbia-Hungarian border. What on earth were the migrants doing taking their children up to the gates knowing it would probably kick off. The number of single young men is really worrying. This is going to play out (in different forms) for years to come.
I would love to be a fly on the wall in Angela Merkel's office. What an appallying mess.
It terms of affordability I think that food is as cheap as it has ever been in my lifetime. With some clever shopping (getting the bargains at Tescos etc) it is amazing how much food you can get for £10. You can buy a 2kg bag of pasta for less than a quid and a tin of tomatoes for 20pence. You couldn't do that 20 years ago even allowing for inflation. I could easily feed a family of 4 for a week for £10. Everyday tescos sell stuff that is going out of date for 10pence or less. I regularly go and see what bargains I can get.
The term poverty is definitely relative
LOL, you must be eating pig swill at those prices. Also eating sacks of pasta and such like is what makes the poor people fat. Crap diet by having to buy cheap muck. If you had said £10 a day I may have believed it.
Come to Tescos at Bursledon in Hampshire at 8 tonight. They have all sorts of bargains on all their produce from meat to vegetables to bread. You can fill your freezer up for less than a fiver. It just takes a little bit of clever shopping.
''I was thinking of those knowing people going through hardship now, as opposed to the past - thus the reference to austerity. And many Labour voters, courtesy of the Thatcher years know just how much hardship Conservatism causes.''
Fatcha!!! Change the record. Life was just as tough in the 1970s when labour at least partly ruled. Every heard of the three day week? Bankrupt Britain in 76? 20% inflation? the Winter of Discontent?
Not this again , the 70's were great and living was cheap as chips.
The idea that people who vote Conservative do not know hardship or anyone who has been affected by hardship is a bizarre one. Many Conservative voters lived through the 1970s and know just how much hardship socialism causes. A large number of them had to work hard to climb out of difficult starting circumstances and were only able to thanks to Thatcher's reforms. Then there are those of us who are involved in charity work, often due to our faith background.
The problem the left seems to have is that they either do not know many Conservatives, or they are so self-righteous in how they discuss politics that friends with Tory tendencies refrain from opening up about being so.
Mr. Royale, none of the broadcast media appear to have mentioned the polling at all, possibly because it's completely opposed to the broadcast media's own view.
A television camera is a powerful thing. If you watch the BBC you come away with a structured impression that the nasty Hungarian authorities are recklessly teargassing innocent fathers, women and children.
"I grew up in rationing. My mother ate bread and dripping (meat fat) for at least two meals a week so my brother and I could eat. (I like dripping)
Dripping, particularly from grilled pork chops, was my mother's favorite - quite heavily salted. Lemon rinds with salt was another of her favorites.
I still think of her each time I mop up the best bits of dripping from a roast chicken with a piece of bread."
I think dripping is a darn sight better for you that hydrogenated oils (transfats), which should have been banished by law 30 yrs ago. I'm no expert, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that transfats have contributed to ill health and deaths to a degree rivalling the motor car.
It terms of affordability I think that food is as cheap as it has ever been in my lifetime. With some clever shopping (getting the bargains at Tescos etc) it is amazing how much food you can get for £10. You can buy a 2kg bag of pasta for less than a quid and a tin of tomatoes for 20pence. You couldn't do that 20 years ago even allowing for inflation. I could easily feed a family of 4 for a week for £10. Everyday tescos sell stuff that is going out of date for 10pence or less. I regularly go and see what bargains I can get. The term poverty is definitely relative
Quite, and there are also now large numbers of people employed by the 'poverty industry', who fear for their jobs and are prone to increasingly hyperbolic language to defend themselves. See Labour today tying themselves in knots about people being able to claim 23 grand a year in welfare for a good example. There is almost no poverty in the UK, if you define poverty as being able to feed and clothe yourself and your family, rather than being stuck with an iPhone 5 when everyone else has a shiny new iPhone 6.
On another topic, it looks like Cameron is being vindicated as the 'refugee' crisis steps up a notch or two this evening. Surely Merkel's political head could be called for if the situation continues to escalate?
When I was writing about those going through severe hardship I was thinking of those going through financial problems as well as suffering mental illness. And while on an individual basis your second point may be true, generally most of those in the D/E class/the poorest in society do not vote Conservative. I can't say whether those who vote Conservative really believe voting such will help those most vulnerable - I'm simply saying that there are those out there who are affected by austerity.
Ms Apocalypse. I think the fairest approach in political discourse is to assume others who disagree with you do so out of the same good intentions as you had in arriving at your own political convictions, until such time as they prove otherwise.
For me, I assume that conviction politicians from both the Tories and Labour both want maximum prosperity for Britain. Where they differ is in relation to how to achieve it and, to a lesser extent, what society should look like once optimal policies have been adopted and have had time to have their full effect.
To me, as a fiscal conservative more of the Austrian school then either Keynes or Chicago, the emphasis of policies should be to create an environment conducive to entrepreneurial endeavour, opportunity, and removal of barriers to full participation in education and the workforce. I.e. my emphasis is more of maximizing the pot and enabling all to have a go at grabbing their share - this includes the Ds and Es - so my emphasis is on the efficiency of the economy, with equity addressed more through enabling participation and opportunity than through redistribution (although some of the latter is required)
Of course, the emphasis on 'efficiency' should not be unchecked - we have to adapt policies to recognize public goods and bads, other externalities, unlevel playing fields and information imbalances. This is where the equity part of the equation comes in for me.
And even if you want to boil this discussion down to purely political terms, as a Tory I wouldn't be writing off people in D and E because they consistently vote Labour, but be seeking to enable as many of their number as possible to climb up into the Cs, Bs and As and switch their vote, based not only on self-interest but in the belief that the economic policies pursued were the right ones.
I guess it varies. I get the impression that some Conservatives do genuinely care, and want the best for all in society. Then I see other opinions online, where it come across that those who are D/E are written off, because they either vote Labour, or most likely are not engaged with politics at all - and that middle class, CD2Es, WVMs are all that matter.
It terms of affordability I think that food is as cheap as it has ever been in my lifetime. With some clever shopping (getting the bargains at Tescos etc) it is amazing how much food you can get for £10. You can buy a 2kg bag of pasta for less than a quid and a tin of tomatoes for 20pence. You couldn't do that 20 years ago even allowing for inflation. I could easily feed a family of 4 for a week for £10. Everyday tescos sell stuff that is going out of date for 10pence or less. I regularly go and see what bargains I can get.
The term poverty is definitely relative
LOL, you must be eating pig swill at those prices. Also eating sacks of pasta and such like is what makes the poor people fat. Crap diet by having to buy cheap muck. If you had said £10 a day I may have believed it.
Come to Tescos at Bursledon in Hampshire at 8 tonight. They have all sorts of bargains on all their produce from meat to vegetables to bread. You can fill your freezer up for less than a fiver. It just takes a little bit of clever shopping.
I just used the pasta as an example.
Currystar, good on you but no thanks, I am fortunate enough to never have to look at the price of food I just pick what I want. I was being witty in my riposte to you , or at least trying to be.
BBC vox pop: as always mixed bag (to be impartial) but included one person saying he looks like an "old man" and another saying he looks like an "assistant librarian".
And the GE is 5 years away.
I think even if he does very well that age is going to be a critical factor in whether it is tenable for him to be leader at the GE.
"I grew up in rationing. My mother ate bread and dripping (meat fat) for at least two meals a week so my brother and I could eat. (I like dripping)
Dripping, particularly from grilled pork chops, was my mother's favorite - quite heavily salted. Lemon rinds with salt was another of her favorites.
I still think of her each time I mop up the best bits of dripping from a roast chicken with a piece of bread."
I think dripping is a darn sight better for you that hydrogenated oils (transfats), which should have been banished by law 30 yrs ago. I'm no expert, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that transfats have contributed to ill health and deaths to a degree rivalling the motor car.
must be the only fat then, plenty more needing banning methinks.
The latest dietary consensus is moving away from the food pyramid where fat=bad to a more nuanced understanding based on calorie balance. Healthy fats sate hunger for longer than other foods; high carb diets cause major problems with blood sugar and insulin resistance.
But by far the biggest problem in the US is the fall off in levels of physical activity.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
"it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity."
That's a rather one-dimensional and crass depiction of mental illness.
I don't quite get how my statement is one-dimensional or crass. Explain?
Is everyone with mental illness dependent on state services, or indeed affected by austerity? No. In fact, I'd argue that the majority of mental illness never get touched by state services, because they remain hidden.
People suffering from mental illness - even at an extreme level - can remain functioning in society so friends, family and colleagues do not know they are suffering. And when state services do get involved, even with the best of intentions and financing, they can make the situation for an individual worse.
Regular readers for more than a couple of years standing may be able to guess why this sort of thing annoys me so much.
It annoys me too - and for much the same reasons. My close family is touched by it and until you experience it you can have no idea at the effect it can and does have.
The Lib Dems deserve every kudos going for their work on it, I hope the Tories stick with it and I am prepared to praise Corbyn if he really means what he says on this topic. This issue goes beyond party politics.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
Why do you think that only people dependent on the state suffer from real hardship? There are an awful lot of people with cars jobs and mortgages that struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day and for whom holidays and luxuries (booze, meals out etc.) are beyond reach.
BIB: I wouldn't say that qualifies as real hardship. It's not a big deal if you can't pay for holidays and luxuries. I'm thinking of people struggling to even pay for basic things like food, electricity etc.
Did you actually read my post: which part of, "Struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day" do you think not qualifies as real hardship? Is it perhaps that people who struggle to pay for food and the basics from their earnings,as opposed to living on state support, are somehow not genuinely hard-up?
That is genuine hardship. But I've also seen on this site, opinions will suggest those in their positions should simply cut down on their out-goings e.g. the car.
"I grew up in rationing. My mother ate bread and dripping (meat fat) for at least two meals a week so my brother and I could eat. (I like dripping)
Dripping, particularly from grilled pork chops, was my mother's favorite - quite heavily salted. Lemon rinds with salt was another of her favorites.
I still think of her each time I mop up the best bits of dripping from a roast chicken with a piece of bread."
I think dripping is a darn sight better for you that hydrogenated oils (transfats), which should have been banished by law 30 yrs ago. I'm no expert, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that transfats have contributed to ill health and deaths to a degree rivalling the motor car.
must be the only fat then, plenty more needing banning methinks.
The latest dietary consensus is moving away from the food pyramid where fat=bad to a more nuanced understanding based on calorie balance. Healthy fats sate hunger for longer than other foods; high carb diets cause major problems with blood sugar and insulin resistance.
But by far the biggest problem in the US is the fall off in levels of physical activity.
Agree, but the bad part is all the processed muck that people eat and the extras that are shovelled into it by manufacturer's. If you buy fresh produce and cook it yourself then you know what you are getting. Easy to say given I never cook anything but I very seldom have processed food almost always fresh cooked.
I guess it varies. I get the impression that some Conservatives do genuinely care, and want the best for all in society. Then I see other opinions online, where it come across that those who are D/E are written off, because they either vote Labour, or most likely are not engaged with politics at all - and that middle class, CD2Es, WVMs are all that matter.
All parties are a broad church. I live in a (relatively) affluent part of Wales. I do my voluntary work across the border in the Forest of Dean which is very deprived.
Trans people often have mental and physical health issues as secondary effects of society's misapprehensions about gender dysphoria and the NHS's woefully under resourced services for transgender people.
I don't think compassion and caring is particularly correlated with one's personal political views.
@taffys As someone who has had her fair share of issues and had counselling on the NHS, my experience has been a positive one with them. But in regards to mental illness a series of governments and the NHS have still yet to get it right.
Comments
They're all "desperate people".
JC and his ragbag followers are now not susceptible to advice from anyone other than fellow travellers. Their electoral demise is inevitable and Labour must beware of JC's siren song.
All sorts of people may be affected by unemployment, illness, crime etc. It does not follow that because you vote Tory you aren't affected. It may be that you vote that way because you think that they are more likely than the other lot to help resolve the problems.
Live rounds should be a last resort.
Massive waste of food thrown away and people pointlessly buying overpriced convenience foods.
Mr. Flaming Picky would like to point out that buying overpriced convenience food is not pointless. The clue is in the name - one pays the premium for the convenience.
Whether people, especially those on low incomes, are making the right choice in choosing convenience over price is another matter. One might think that if someone is not working, for example, then a better choice might be to spend the time, of which they have in plenty, in preparing food from basic ingredients and thus saving the money. However, who are we to judge another's priorities?
People will always make the best choice for themselves given the resources (including knowledge and skills) that they have.
The Labour party must dig deep into roots if it is to survive. The Blairites cannot do it, they are finished now. The far left is triumphant but they are a tiny force in the Parliamentary Labour Party, and nowhere near as popular in the country as their deluded supporters imagine.
Watson as Brutus
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/nick-cohen/2015/09/will-labour-move-corbyn/
That's a rather one-dimensional and crass depiction of mental illness.
Either they are stopped now or we will suffer the consequences later.
My wife helps with food collection for banks. She happens to know some of the people who collect food form the banks. A few of f their issues appear to be self inflicted.
I think when things have gone this far you have to take a very strong stand and send a very clear message, or you forfeit any real control for good.
I agree. My mother and her family knew real hunger. Read Norman Lewis's "Naples 44" (IMO one of the best war books ever written) to learn what it was like. And there were no food banks. If you were caught with black market food, you could and would be shot.
The flat I grew up in had no central heating. Now people moan if their download speeds aren't fast enough.
I have 3 children. I worry about their prospects, of course I do, and I think there are real issues. But in this part of the world at this time they are fantastically lucky to have the opportunities they have and to have grown up in a country without war and without being in the shadow of war. That is very different to previous generations; indeed the last generation of which it could be said would be the late Victorians/Edwardians.
I grew up in rationing. My mother ate bread and dripping (meat fat) for at least two meals a week so my brother and I could eat. (I like dripping)
Dripping, particularly from grilled pork chops, was my mother's favorite - quite heavily salted. Lemon rinds with salt was another of her favorites.
I still think of her each time I mop up the best bits of dripping from a roast chicken with a piece of bread.
Edited extra bit: Mr. 30, wasn't Blunkett always on the right of Labour, though?
NO?
Thought not.
Earlier yiu asked if it was OK to pm me, horticulture and charity. Not sure if yiu saw my reply, but I would be delighted to hear from you.
Nobody cared about an open border then.
The problem the left seems to have is that they either do not know many Conservatives, or they are so self-righteous in how they discuss politics that friends with Tory tendencies refrain from opening up about being so.
But at the same time, there appear to be a disproportionate number of smokers.
People suffering from mental illness - even at an extreme level - can remain functioning in society so friends, family and colleagues do not know they are suffering. And when state services do get involved, even with the best of intentions and financing, they can make the situation for an individual worse.
Regular readers for more than a couple of years standing may be able to guess why this sort of thing annoys me so much.
What's your solution - have you taken anyone in yet?
"I grew up in rationing. My mother ate bread and dripping (meat fat) for at least two meals a week so my brother and I could eat. (I like dripping)
Dripping, particularly from grilled pork chops, was my mother's favorite - quite heavily salted. Lemon rinds with salt was another of her favorites.
I still think of her each time I mop up the best bits of dripping from a roast chicken with a piece of bread."
I think dripping is a darn sight better for you that hydrogenated oils (transfats), which should have been banished by law 30 yrs ago. I'm no expert, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that transfats have contributed to ill health and deaths to a degree rivalling the motor car.
My wife and I saved up to buy a house in the 1970s. We did not drink or smoke, owned no TV, took no holidays and ran a 10 year old rusty Mini Estate.. Then we had children and still had no spare cash..and struggled.
I don't have a great deal of sympathy...
Dripping still seemed to have its rightful place in Yorkshire in the late nineties. When going for the office sandwiches in Wakefield (all the locally employed staff were busy so I volunteered) the lady in the butchers took my order and asked, "Do ye want butter or mucky fat?". After I got a translation, I found that they offered a choice of spread on the bread one could have butter or dripping - now olive oil based or margarine low-fat nonsense for them. All the sandwich fillings were meat of course and not a scrap of rabbit food to be had.
I still think of her each time I mop up the best bits of dripping from a roast chicken with a piece of bread.
It is all getting very nostalgic on here today , who will be first to say they used to have to go up chimneys as a lad
I really can't fathom..
The two situations are exactly the same...!!! Mirror image.
The term poverty is definitely relative
Sudbury Hall Museum of Childhood used to have a chimney that kids could go up. I went up it when I was a wee nipper. I'm half-surprised they let me out again.
Edit:
They still do it:
http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/sudbury-hall-and-museum-of-childhood/
Ms Apocalypse. I think the fairest approach in political discourse is to assume others who disagree with you do so out of the same good intentions as you had in arriving at your own political convictions, until such time as they prove otherwise.
For me, I assume that conviction politicians from both the Tories and Labour both want maximum prosperity for Britain. Where they differ is in relation to how to achieve it and, to a lesser extent, what society should look like once optimal policies have been adopted and have had time to have their full effect.
To me, as a fiscal conservative more of the Austrian school then either Keynes or Chicago, the emphasis of policies should be to create an environment conducive to entrepreneurial endeavour, opportunity, and removal of barriers to full participation in education and the workforce. I.e. my emphasis is more of maximizing the pot and enabling all to have a go at grabbing their share - this includes the Ds and Es - so my emphasis is on the efficiency of the economy, with equity addressed more through enabling participation and opportunity than through redistribution (although some of the latter is required)
Of course, the emphasis on 'efficiency' should not be unchecked - we have to adapt policies to recognize public goods and bads, other externalities, unlevel playing fields and information imbalances. This is where the equity part of the equation comes in for me.
And even if you want to boil this discussion down to purely political terms, as a Tory I wouldn't be writing off people in D and E because they consistently vote Labour, but be seeking to enable as many of their number as possible to climb up into the Cs, Bs and As and switch their vote, based not only on self-interest but in the belief that the economic policies pursued were the right ones.
"I did!
Sudbury Hall Museum of Childhood used to have a chimney that kids could go up! I went up it when I was a wee nipper! I'm half-surprised they met me out again.
Luxury!
Mr. Llama, I extended the life of my previous pair of gloves by 3-4 years by sewing up seams and darning [badly] a patch on the thumb. And I occasionally re-hem the trousers of my jeans with a blanket stitch [although that pair of jeans will probably need chucking due to the knee disintegrating].
And, as previously mentioned, my bedroom was small enough to apparently mean I was homeless/deprived, according to some daft charity definition.
Of course, if anyone wants to stop me starving to death*, do buy some of these lovely books:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thaddeus-White/e/B008C6RU98/
One of them has lesbian cannibalism in, you know.
*By which I mean "Being unable to afford XCOM 2 when/if it's released for the PS4".
Fatcha!!! Change the record. Life was just as tough in the 1970s when labour at least partly ruled. Every heard of the three day week? Bankrupt Britain in 76? 20% inflation? the Winter of Discontent?
If you had said £10 a day I may have believed it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34272765
You'd think multi-billion dollar tech companies could get password entry right ... (part 1839 of 5939):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-34268050
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/06/fda-bans-trans-fats/395972/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-34272242
I would love to be a fly on the wall in Angela Merkel's office. What an appallying mess.
I just used the pasta as an example.
On another topic, it looks like Cameron is being vindicated as the 'refugee' crisis steps up a notch or two this evening. Surely Merkel's political head could be called for if the situation continues to escalate?
The NHS has always done a rubbish job on mental illness even before 'austerity'
You have always had to accept hastily doled out Anti-depressants or wait weeks for counselling.
Want to see a proper, fully qualified shrink? forget it unless you are a genuine danger to yourself and others.
And the GE is 5 years away.
I think even if he does very well that age is going to be a critical factor in whether it is tenable for him to be leader at the GE.
But by far the biggest problem in the US is the fall off in levels of physical activity.
The Lib Dems deserve every kudos going for their work on it, I hope the Tories stick with it and I am prepared to praise Corbyn if he really means what he says on this topic. This issue goes beyond party politics.
Trans people often have mental and physical health issues as secondary effects of society's misapprehensions about gender dysphoria and the NHS's woefully under resourced services for transgender people.
I don't think compassion and caring is particularly correlated with one's personal political views.