Very good piece. I agree with a lot of it and have said similar in recent weeks on here.
But what I am seeing in common amongst all the social media posts I'm seeing praising Corbyn and his refreshing unspun tone and look - they're all from died-in-the-wool Labourites.
I'm a Tory voter. I find him eccentric and unacceptably Leftie - yet reasonably likeable, personable and he's certainly clever and articulate. But am I going to be less likely to vote Tory as a result?
Of course not. I'm more resolutely Tory now because of his dangerous and unacceptable views.
I see very little evidence that he is clever or articulate. Does seem polite though. Unless you are a cameraman of course.
As affable and polite as Corbyn is, it will ultimately be those he surrounds himself with that will be his downfall.
The way to destroy Corbyn will be to turn John McDonnell into a bogey man. Shouldn't be hard.
No it's not. McDonnell can be sacked, reshuffled or can choose to resign.
Won't work. They are too close. They have been friends for the best part of 30 years and clearly believe much the same.
For those people who don't normally watch PMQs and only see snippets on the news, they will probably like what they saw today. I suspect Jeremy Corbyn's will change over the weeks. I thought the PM also did well because he answered every question without having a single note in front of him.
Nigel Dodds question was a killer.
I see on the BBC ticker, that they are asking for those people Jeremy Corbyn mentioned, to get in tough. They would be incredibly foolish if they did but then perhaps they won't be able to resist their "five minutes of fame." The media will chew them up and spit them out. I still maintain the MSM have to be careful, some of them are going way over the top.
Tom Watson will be the next Leader of the Labour Party, then Unite's takeover of the Labour party will be complete.
If it comes to a choice between keeping McDonnell and losing his leadership, then McDonnell will go. For that matter, if it does come to that, McDonnell might well jump to save Corbyn the embarrassment. After all, if the situation is that severe, it's not as if he has anything to gain by staying.
That said, it would weaken Corbyn if the two can be prised apart.
Indeed, John Major sacked Norman Lamont as Chancellor and Lamont had been Major's campaign manager in 1990. I'm not sure said sacking made any great difference.
I also think Blair wanted to sack Brown but was never able or willing. Had IDS remained Conservative leader and Labour won a bigger victory in 2005, I think Blair might have done it after the election.
@BBCAllegra: 2/... backbenchers have complained to Speaker such long Corbyn Qs will crowd them out. Will Bercow have to step in? https://t.co/iyBPqdexSQ
Did he not just make PMQs last 45 minutes? It certainly seemed much longer.
That was just the length of his opening ramble.
Dear god did I ever think one would be able to hark back to this and think: there is an operator.
LOL, but to be fair to Miliband the session did start on a pretty sombre note.
What Jezza and his team should learn is that picking random questions from Steve in Harlow may put himself nearer to the public but it prevents the maintenance and development of a theme which can put increasing pressure on the PM. As I think EdM did very well with his child benefits theme.
@BBCAllegra: 2/... backbenchers have complained to Speaker such long Corbyn Qs will crowd them out. Will Bercow have to step in? https://t.co/iyBPqdexSQ
Very good piece. I agree with a lot of it and have said similar in recent weeks on here.
But what I am seeing in common amongst all the social media posts I'm seeing praising Corbyn and his refreshing unspun tone and look - they're all from died-in-the-wool Labourites.
I'm a Tory voter. I find him eccentric and unacceptably Leftie - yet reasonably likeable, personable and he's certainly clever and articulate. But am I going to be less likely to vote Tory as a result?
Of course not. I'm more resolutely Tory now because of his dangerous and unacceptable views.
I see very little evidence that he is clever or articulate. Does seem polite though. Unless you are a cameraman of course.
As affable and polite as Corbyn is, it will ultimately be those he surrounds himself with that will be his downfall.
The way to destroy Corbyn will be to turn John McDonnell into a bogey man. Shouldn't be hard.
No it's not. McDonnell can be sacked, reshuffled or can choose to resign.
Won't work. They are too close. They have been friends for the best part of 30 years and clearly believe much the same.
There are no friendships at the top. If it comes to a choice between keeping McDonnell and losing his leadership, then McDonnell will go. For that matter, if it does come to that, McDonnell might well jump to save Corbyn the embarrassment. After all, if the situation is that severe, it's not as if he has anything to gain by staying. That said, it would weaken Corbyn if the two can be prised apart.
Here is a history lesson In 2010 EdM had to appoint a shadow chancellor. He did not want probably the best qualified (and the one who wanted it) but most voter toxic so he appointed the least qualified (who did not want it) but who could deliver a song a dance and a merry quip. Shock horror the latter resigned, leaving the former (who Ed could not get on with) to take the job. Did that strengthen Labour? Did that help Ed M? Did it create a coherent economic policy or harmony in the shadow cabinet? When Blair and Brown fell out. Consequences anybody? Thatcher and Lawson? If McDonnell leaves for whatever reason (other than being pushed under a bus by the MI5 and that conspiracy of bankers fermenting world wide weapons sales) then Corbyn is ... TOAST.
Hungarians say their border will be closed for the next 30 days...
Where's all the criticism of Hungary from the self proclaimed immigration lovers and virtue signallers?
Looking at the pics on Sky and listening to the UN rep there's a big disconnect between the pictures which show large numbers of violent, fit male thugs attacking troops and police while she keeps referring to suffering children. No wonder people are increasingly cynical about what is becoming a media charade.
Hungarians say their border will be closed for the next 30 days...
Where's all the criticism of Hungary from the self proclaimed immigration lovers and virtue signallers?
Looking at the pics on Sky and listening to the UN rep there's a big disconnect between the pictures which show large numbers of violent, fit male thugs attacking troops and police while she keeps referring to suffering children. No wonder people are increasingly cynical about what is becoming a media charade.
Yes, although who can blame the migrants for trying it on if the gullible fools on here are representative of the EU as a whole?
Hungarians say their border will be closed for the next 30 days...
Where's all the criticism of Hungary from the self proclaimed immigration lovers and virtue signallers?
Looking at the pics on Sky and listening to the UN rep there's a big disconnect between the pictures which show large numbers of violent, fit male thugs attacking troops and police while she keeps referringi to suffering children. No wonder people are increasingly cynical about what is becoming a media charade.
Yes, although who can blame the migrants for trying it on if the gullible fools on here are representative of the EU as a whole?
I think the proportion of gullible fools on here is very low compared to the numbers of gullible journalists employed by the BBC, Guardian, SKY, ........
The number of people employed by the state has fallen to the lowest number since the Second World War as the private sector takes off.
New figures today showed just 17.2 per cent of people are now employed in the public sector, while a record number are now in work in the private sector.
People in jobs are now enjoying the real terms rise in regular pay for more than a decade, but unemployment has risen for a third month in a row.
Very good piece. I agree with a lot of it and have said similar in recent weeks on here.
But what I am seeing in common amongst all the social media posts I'm seeing praising Corbyn and his refreshing unspun tone and look - they're all from died-in-the-wool Labourites.
I'm a Tory voter. I find him eccentric and unacceptably Leftie - yet reasonably likeable, personable and he's certainly clever and articulate. But am I going to be less likely to vote Tory as a result?
Of course not. I'm more resolutely Tory now because of his dangerous and unacceptable views.
I see very little evidence that he is clever or articulate. Does seem polite though. Unless you are a cameraman of course.
As affable and polite as Corbyn is, it will ultimately be those he surrounds himself with that will be his downfall.
The way to destroy Corbyn will be to turn John McDonnell into a bogey man. Shouldn't be hard.
No it's not. McDonnell can be sacked, reshuffled or can choose to resign.
Won't work. They are too close. They have been friends for the best part of 30 years and clearly believe much the same.
Tom Watson will be the next Leader of the Labour Party, then Unite's takeover of the Labour party will be complete.
Poor old Jeremy's dancing along like a puppet on a string.
The people that poor old Jeremy is standing in front of are only interested in taking over the Labour Party. If they are successful he is going to stay. Never was that old adage (just whose I wonder) more appropriate - 'It's always the most dangerous of times for a Party when it changes its leader.'
Hungarians say their border will be closed for the next 30 days...
Where's all the criticism of Hungary from the self proclaimed immigration lovers and virtue signallers?
Looking at the pics on Sky and listening to the UN rep there's a big disconnect between the pictures which show large numbers of violent, fit male thugs attacking troops and police while she keeps referring to suffering children. No wonder people are increasingly cynical about what is becoming a media charade.
They're not doing themselves any favours as European public opinion can easily turn again. At this rate someone will get seriously hurt, whether a migrant or policeman.
I have some sympathy for victims of the Syrian civil war but that doesn't give people the right to go wherever they want or to try and break into countries illegally. That is why we have a visa system.
Corbyn's election seems more like a sign of engagement and hope, to me. This isn't people giving up on politics, this is people believing they can use it to change things.
If there was disillusionment and disengagement, it was in the cynical realism that saw people accepting Blairite/Brownite control of the party because it was seen as the only possibility. Corbyn represents an outbreak of reckless and probably foolhardy hope.
@StewartWood: The Duke of Wellington has just been elected to the House of Lords. Straight up.
Does that mean we get to give the French a damn good kicking next year?
a hard pounding. Which reminds me I wonder if we will get a Corbynquestion from that well known litmus test of public opinion, Anna Dockside-Hooker at next PMQs? Ah. Where are they now...
''no sympathy brownie points for the angry young men trying to break down the border fences''.
Surely you mean 'desperate refugees fleeing a horrible war....'
The refugee photographs in the press tend to be of children and some women.
The television pictures of immigrants tend to show fit young men.
The press photos are there to support their narrative du jour. Expect more photos in the press of the fit young men in future as the narrative changes from helpless women and children to an invasion by male hordes.
But, compared with much of the last fifty years, mostly people seem pretty content:
Christ. You haven't got a clue! Go and talk to teachers, health workers, people trying to get on the housing ladder, students not to mention people forced to use food banks, pound shops, wonga dealers ... the list could go on.
You left out the nurses, the lovely nurses, the lovely voting nurses, the lovely Labour voting nurses.
But, compared with much of the last fifty years, mostly people seem pretty content:
Christ. You haven't got a clue! Go and talk to teachers, health workers, people trying to get on the housing ladder, students not to mention people forced to use food banks, pound shops, wonga dealers ... the list could go on.
Where were all these outraged citizens last May ?
Incapable of voting for that arse Ed Miliband or the traitorous Nick Clegg. By the way, where is Clegg?!!
The MSM have failed to gauge the mood. We all just needed someone worthy to follow.
You need to think carefully about who exactly you mean by "we all".
You then need to go and have a detailed, analytical look at the demographic makeup of Britain. (Your friends, your colleagues, your family, people you know on facebook, people who live near you that you know of... forget all about them. They're anecdotal, unrepresentative. You need to look at the big picture: millions of people, not hundreds or thousands. For that you need cold hard statistics.).
60% of 425,000 of 500,000 eligible lalala.
But, and I know this will seem arrogant, I'm more in tune with ordinary people than 90% of people on this site.
You need to wake up and smell the cappuchino. There's a sea-change taking place. No wonder the media are running around like the proverbial headless.
I assume I have come to the wrong blog and this is for children.
Hungarians say their border will be closed for the next 30 days...
'But, but, Frau Merkel told them all to come, and Germany would welcome them.'
The German border with Austria was closed for migrants on the excuse that Germany could not cope.
Merkel will have told Austria to stop them passing through Austria to Germany; so Austria will have told Hungary to to stop them passing through Hungary to Austria.
There is another Conservative Hereditary Peer by-election pending.
The runners-up in today's election who should have the most chance are (figure represents number of votes in final round):
Abergavenny M - 6 Harrowby E - 6 Ferrers E - 5 Limerick E - 3 Windlelsham E - 3
This may seem like a joke but as hereditaries automatically get replaced from the same Party it helps Con as they have far more hereditaries (so no attrition here; indeed if someone who doesn't turn up retires / dies it actually helps) - whereas Lab has more Life Peers which is where the attrition is suffered.
If it comes to a choice between keeping McDonnell and losing his leadership, then McDonnell will go. For that matter, if it does come to that, McDonnell might well jump to save Corbyn the embarrassment. After all, if the situation is that severe, it's not as if he has anything to gain by staying. That said, it would weaken Corbyn if the two can be prised apart.
Indeed, John Major sacked Norman Lamont as Chancellor and Lamont had been Major's campaign manager in 1990. I'm not sure said sacking made any great difference. I also think Blair wanted to sack Brown but was never able or willing. Had IDS remained Conservative leader and Labour won a bigger victory in 2005, I think Blair might have done it after the election.
Major lost the election in 1997 and the tories in fact were wiped out. You might see it OK for a leader to have a chancellor imposed on him but I cannot possibly comment.
The other issue for a party is 'former leaders'. Of late that has been a good factor for the tories. They have all done the party good service after leaving office. None more so than Michael Howard who stayed to reform and oversee the leadership election. They have all shown humility, ability and common sense. Step forward Ed Miliband...
The number of people employed by the state has fallen to the lowest number since the Second World War as the private sector takes off.
New figures today showed just 17.2 per cent of people are now employed in the public sector, while a record number are now in work in the private sector.
People in jobs are now enjoying the real terms rise in regular pay for more than a decade, but unemployment has risen for a third month in a row.
You have got four and half more years of that as well, before the next election.
There isn't going to be much of a public sector left for Labour to represent. Instead many hundreds of thousands - maybe millions - more private sector employees.
''no sympathy brownie points for the angry young men trying to break down the border fences''.
Surely you mean 'desperate refugees fleeing a horrible war....'
The refugee photographs in the press tend to be of children and some women.
The television pictures of immigrants tend to show fit young men.
The press photos are there to support their narrative du jour. Expect more photos in the press of the fit young men in future as the narrative changes from helpless women and children to an invasion by male hordes.
Hungarians say their border will be closed for the next 30 days...
Where's all the criticism of Hungary from the self proclaimed immigration lovers and virtue signallers?
Looking at the pics on Sky and listening to the UN rep there's a big disconnect between the pictures which show large numbers of violent, fit male thugs attacking troops and police while she keeps referring to suffering children. No wonder people are increasingly cynical about what is becoming a media charade.
Nor are most of them even Syrian. The news channels have even been trying to pass of sub-saharan Africans as Syrians ffs.
So the consensus is that Jeremy can read out a question and is therefore a success. I read out a question to my boss, he was overwhelmed by my abilities!!
''The television pictures of immigrants tend to show fit young men.''
Dave's solution - women and children only and directly from Syria only, looks more sensible by the day
These women and children are going to leave their husbands, brothers and the like alone in the camps and what's going to happen to the men - are they going to be left to rot, starve ? The women come over here, pick up some lonely middle-aged bloke who spends all his time blogging on sites like this, marries him and then invites the family over ?
It's a botched half-considered nonsense of a "solution" that, as usual, glosses over the real problem which is an end to the fighting in Syria.
As for the "fit young men", who else is going to try to storm the fence - elderly women, children - would it look better if they did ? In crude propaganda terms, it would - we can dismiss the antics of "fir young men" or "thugs" as someone else has called them but if elderly women and children rushed the fence and were tear-gassed, that would look dreadful for the Hungarians.
I find it ironic that the EU states of Eastern Europe who were so keen to see their "fit young men" head to western Europe as soon as the Wall fell, now don't seem so generous to people who will be passing through.
I think it's regrettable that Hungary is being given a bad image due to Merkel's head-in-the-clouds migration policy.
It's actually in Hungary's interest to have a bad image in the short term as this news will filter through to migrants just starting out on their journeys and they will pick routes avoiding Hungary e.g. Greece-Macedonia-Serbia-Croatia-Slovenia-Austria-Germany. Hungary can quietly reopen their border in a month or so and it becomes someone else's problem.
The number of people employed by the state has fallen to the lowest number since the Second World War as the private sector takes off.
New figures today showed just 17.2 per cent of people are now employed in the public sector, while a record number are now in work in the private sector.
People in jobs are now enjoying the real terms rise in regular pay for more than a decade, but unemployment has risen for a third month in a row.
It's a bit of a cheat since there are a number of reclassifications and obviously far fewer nationalised industries but the trend is encouraging. As I said this morning I expect unemployment to drift up somewhat even if the number of people in employment drifts up too.
@BBCAllegra: 2/... backbenchers have complained to Speaker such long Corbyn Qs will crowd them out. Will Bercow have to step in? https://t.co/iyBPqdexSQ
They just need to email the Labour Party, as 'Derek from Westminster','Diane from Westminster','Nick from Brussels' etc
Lol at Nick from Brussels.
I forgot about the Nigel from Kent caller during the LBC debate.
But, compared with much of the last fifty years, mostly people seem pretty content:
Christ. You haven't got a clue! Go and talk to teachers, health workers, people trying to get on the housing ladder, students not to mention people forced to use food banks, pound shops, wonga dealers ... the list could go on.
Where were all these outraged citizens last May ?
Incapable of voting for that arse Ed Miliband or the traitorous Nick Clegg. By the way, where is Clegg?!!
The MSM have failed to gauge the mood. We all just needed someone worthy to follow.
You need to think carefully about who exactly you mean by "we all".
You then need to go and have a detailed, analytical look at the demographic makeup of Britain. (Your friends, your colleagues, your family, people you know on facebook, people who live near you that you know of... forget all about them. They're anecdotal, unrepresentative. You need to look at the big picture: millions of people, not hundreds or thousands. For that you need cold hard statistics.).
60% of 425,000 of 500,000 eligible lalala.
But, and I know this will seem arrogant, I'm more in tune with ordinary people than 90% of people on this site.
You need to wake up and smell the cappuchino. There's a sea-change taking place. No wonder the media are running around like the proverbial headless.
60% of 425,000 is 255,000 voters for Corbyn. A good victory..
There are ca. 30 million on the electoral roll. So far he's got 0.85% of that electorate. That's a homeopathic victory.
Every generation thinks they have it tough. But really speak to those who had to live through the war: my mother celebrated her 17th birthday in August 1944 in Rome, having been separated from her family and having endured years of bombing in Naples. Not worrying about which degree course to take.
Those who graduated in the early 1980's graduated into a recession.
Before 1979 you couldn't take money out of the country - a bit of a bar to travelling here, there and everywhere.
There are significant issues to deal with but the moaning by the young as if they have or will have a tougher time than previous generations, when life has improved immeasurably over the last 30 years, let alone by comparison with the previous 30, lacks a sense of proportion, frankly.
TSE, not being funny, but you've got a heck of a lot wrong in the last six months as have others on here. Maybe you should put a gentle unsmelly sock in it and spend some time reading a little more, studying what's going on, listening and trying to understand?
I believe I called a lot right. I said the Tories would be the largest party in May. I said the SNP would pound the Unionist Parties like a Dockside Hooker, I said FPTP would screw UKIP.
I also made money on the Labour leadership election. Plus my much highed 50/1 tip traded down as low at 5/1 I think.
This time last year I tipped Sajid Javid at 50/1 to be our next PM, he's now as low as 8/1
One thing you keep getting wrong is the timing of the AV thread. Curse these blasted 'events'.
Every generation thinks they have it tough. But really speak to those who had to live through the war: my mother celebrated her 17th birthday in August 1944 in Rome, having been separated from her family and having endured years of bombing in Naples. Not worrying about which degree course to take.
Those who graduated in the early 1980's graduated into a recession.
Before 1979 you couldn't take money out of the country - a bit of a bar to travelling here, there and everywhere.
There are significant issues to deal with but the moaning by the young as if they have or will have a tougher time than previous generations, when life has improved immeasurably over the last 30 years, let alone by comparison with the previous 30, lacks a sense of proportion, frankly.
I graduated in '78, first real job in '79, remained pretty much fully employed since then. I suppose I dodged several bullets!
Hungarians say their border will be closed for the next 30 days...
The German border with Austria was closed for migrants on the excuse that Germany could not cope.
Merkel will have told Austria to stop them passing through Austria to Germany; so Austria will have told Hungary to to stop them passing through Hungary to Austria.
And Hungary has told Serbia to get its act together despite not being in the EU and on and on it goes. Merkel’s rash comment and volte voice have started a political chain of buck passing.
At least Corbyn will geta nice write up from the Mirror, right?
Corbyn is completely without any of the skills necessary to politically eviscerate David Cameron and hang his corpse from the light fitting.
Everyone who voted for Corbyn has also voted for continued Tory rule. They voted for Cameron to have an easy time, for Osborne to be a shoo-in as replacement, and for PMQs to actually become more of a waste of time than it used to be.
Under Corbyn, the "new kind of politics" involves losing. Losing PMQs, losing the argument, losing public support and losing any chance any of us had of an alternative.
If that’s your “new kind of politics”, you really ought to have shoved it up your own bum rather than foisted it onto the rest of the country.
I graduated in '78, first real job in '79, remained pretty much fully employed since then. I suppose I dodged several bullets!
Actually you didn't have to and that is by far the most significant difference between the last 2 generations and those that preceded them. For us at least war has become a game of choice played by professionals.
Every generation thinks they have it tough. But really speak to those who had to live through the war: my mother celebrated her 17th birthday in August 1944 in Rome, having been separated from her family and having endured years of bombing in Naples. Not worrying about which degree course to take.
Those who graduated in the early 1980's graduated into a recession.
Before 1979 you couldn't take money out of the country - a bit of a bar to travelling here, there and everywhere.
There are significant issues to deal with but the moaning by the young as if they have or will have a tougher time than previous generations, when life has improved immeasurably over the last 30 years, let alone by comparison with the previous 30, lacks a sense of proportion, frankly.
I graduated in '78, first real job in '79, remained pretty much fully employed since then. I suppose I dodged several bullets!
My father was wounded in Burma and spent 3 years there fighting the Japanese. My mother was bombed in London. They both survived , married and survived REAL austerity - imagine food rationing and a Chancellor who increased taxes "to reduce consumer demand"..
When I see lots of obesity - 60% of UK adults are obese, and drinking .,.. and mobile phones - I see not austerity but warped priorities..
At least Corbyn will geta nice write up from the Mirror, right?
Corbyn is completely without any of the skills necessary to politically eviscerate David Cameron and hang his corpse from the light fitting.
Everyone who voted for Corbyn has also voted for continued Tory rule. They voted for Cameron to have an easy time, for Osborne to be a shoo-in as replacement, and for PMQs to actually become more of a waste of time than it used to be.
Under Corbyn, the "new kind of politics" involves losing. Losing PMQs, losing the argument, losing public support and losing any chance any of us had of an alternative.
If that’s your “new kind of politics”, you really ought to have shoved it up your own bum rather than foisted it onto the rest of the country.
Yes, good article. Even in conventional terms, Corbyn's mandate was so overwhelming - including amongst full party members, and even pre-2010 party members - that it will be hard for MPs to ditch him, even if they had an easy means and could agree on who they want to put in his place.
One thing, though, I'd take issue with - is it really true that there is an unusual amount of rage and anger at the moment? OK, amongst the die-hard lefties, sure, but then they are always angry that the world won't bend to fit their ideology. But, compared with much of the last fifty years, mostly people seem pretty content: the economy is good, unemployment is fairly low, wages are rising now, the government is competent, scare stories about public services aren't borne out either by reality or by the occasional polls measuring satisfaction, and so on. Of course there are major issues and concerns - immigration, housing, the EU, the refugee crisis - but there's never been a time when there haven't been things to be concerned about. Twitter, Comment is Free, the Telegraph ranting pages, and even politicalbetting.com are not representative of the population at large. We should be careful not to be misled by a self-selected group of the strident and the malcontent.
Yup, and if Labour members were really unhappy with the government they'd have proritised getting rid of it. What they're telling us is that ultimately, they don't think a Tory government is too bad.
I disagree with that conclusion - it's a bit like saying Labour party members thought Thatcher's government was 'less bad' when they voted for Foot, and then Kinnock to be leaders than in the 1990s under Major, when they voted for Blair. A large part of the reason for Corbyn's mandate is in part due to the fact that all the other options were also dire; and within the Labour party there was already a sense of defeatism about 2020 (especially among MPs). It's no wonder that mood filtered down to activists and members, and in the 'grief' of losing 2015 far more badly than many anticipated, they opted for Corbyn.
At least Corbyn will geta nice write up from the Mirror, right?
Corbyn is completely without any of the skills necessary to politically eviscerate David Cameron and hang his corpse from the light fitting.
Everyone who voted for Corbyn has also voted for continued Tory rule. They voted for Cameron to have an easy time, for Osborne to be a shoo-in as replacement, and for PMQs to actually become more of a waste of time than it used to be.
Under Corbyn, the "new kind of politics" involves losing. Losing PMQs, losing the argument, losing public support and losing any chance any of us had of an alternative.
If that’s your “new kind of politics”, you really ought to have shoved it up your own bum rather than foisted it onto the rest of the country.
At least Corbyn will geta nice write up from the Mirror, right?
Corbyn is completely without any of the skills necessary to politically eviscerate David Cameron and hang his corpse from the light fitting.
Everyone who voted for Corbyn has also voted for continued Tory rule. They voted for Cameron to have an easy time, for Osborne to be a shoo-in as replacement, and for PMQs to actually become more of a waste of time than it used to be.
Under Corbyn, the "new kind of politics" involves losing. Losing PMQs, losing the argument, losing public support and losing any chance any of us had of an alternative.
If that’s your “new kind of politics”, you really ought to have shoved it up your own bum rather than foisted it onto the rest of the country.
I strongly suspect that people are going to start shooting and dying on European frontiers soon. They are already drowning.
Yes. History shows it is hard (although possible) to train soldiers to perform civilian policing duties in tense situations. If it goes on long enough, there will be severe trouble.
We are not quite there yet, but this is approaching an existential crisis for the EU.
Totally O/T, but more cheerful news: From the Telegraph:
"New species of deadly 'sit-and-wait' snake discovered in Australia"
Australia is just such an amazing place. Not only do they have the largest number of deadly species in the world but they are still finding new ones. Furthermore, there seems to be no reason why so many of their creatures have developed venom many, many times more toxic than is required to kill their prey.
When it comes to the theory of evolution Australia causes so many problems and is all round unique.
Every generation thinks they have it tough. But really speak to those who had to live through the war: my mother celebrated her 17th birthday in August 1944 in Rome, having been separated from her family and having endured years of bombing in Naples. Not worrying about which degree course to take.
Those who graduated in the early 1980's graduated into a recession.
Before 1979 you couldn't take money out of the country - a bit of a bar to travelling here, there and everywhere.
There are significant issues to deal with but the moaning by the young as if they have or will have a tougher time than previous generations, when life has improved immeasurably over the last 30 years, let alone by comparison with the previous 30, lacks a sense of proportion, frankly.
I graduated in '78, first real job in '79, remained pretty much fully employed since then. I suppose I dodged several bullets!
My father was wounded in Burma and spent 3 years there fighting the Japanese. My mother was bombed in London. They both survived , married and survived REAL austerity - imagine food rationing and a Chancellor who increased taxes "to reduce consumer demand"..
When I see lots of obesity - 60% of UK adults are obese, and drinking .,.. and mobile phones - I see not austerity but warped priorities..
In response to the above:-
I agree. My mother and her family knew real hunger. Read Norman Lewis's "Naples 44" (IMO one of the best war books ever written) to learn what it was like. And there were no food banks. If you were caught with black market food, you could and would be shot.
The flat I grew up in had no central heating. Now people moan if their download speeds aren't fast enough.
I have 3 children. I worry about their prospects, of course I do, and I think there are real issues. But in this part of the world at this time they are fantastically lucky to have the opportunities they have and to have grown up in a country without war and without being in the shadow of war. That is very different to previous generations; indeed the last generation of which it could be said would be the late Victorians/Edwardians.
@BethRigby: Lab figure: advisors will be centralised and then allocated to shadow cab rather than shadow ministers being able to pick their own advisor
The number of people employed by the state has fallen to the lowest number since the Second World War as the private sector takes off.
New figures today showed just 17.2 per cent of people are now employed in the public sector, while a record number are now in work in the private sector.
People in jobs are now enjoying the real terms rise in regular pay for more than a decade, but unemployment has risen for a third month in a row.
You have got four and half more years of that as well, before the next election.
There isn't going to be much of a public sector left for Labour to represent. Instead many hundreds of thousands - maybe millions - more private sector employees. Yes could well be 1 million less in 2020.
Totally O/T, but more cheerful news: From the Telegraph:
"New species of deadly 'sit-and-wait' snake discovered in Australia"
Australia is just such an amazing place. Not only do they have the largest number of deadly species in the world but they are still finding new ones. Furthermore, there seems to be no reason why so many of their creatures have developed venom many, many times more toxic than is required to kill their prey.
When it comes to the theory of evolution Australia causes so many problems and is all round unique.
On the venom thing - I saw a prog about this and they said that the venom was much more toxic to humans than it was to their natural prey - so it wasn't out of kilter.
Totally O/T, but more cheerful news: From the Telegraph:
"New species of deadly 'sit-and-wait' snake discovered in Australia"
Australia is just such an amazing place. Not only do they have the largest number of deadly species in the world but they are still finding new ones. Furthermore, there seems to be no reason why so many of their creatures have developed venom many, many times more toxic than is required to kill their prey.
When it comes to the theory of evolution Australia causes so many problems and is all round unique.
Verified account @AndrewBeatty 2m2 minutes ago #BREAKING Migrants overrun police at flashpoint border crossing, entering Hungary - AFP
This is where the shooting starts.
Yes. Ultimately you have to use lethal force, if the alternative is to lose control of your frontiers. Horrific.
I hope we do not see lethal force, but we are seeing rioting behaviour from migrants who should not be within hundreds of miles of where they are. This cannot be allowed. Clearly the German decision has had a lot to do with it, but I wonder if these forces would have been unleashed anyway?
@BethRigby: Lab figure: advisors will be centralised and then allocated to shadow cab rather than shadow ministers being able to pick their own advisor
Every generation thinks they have it tough. But really speak to those who had to live through the war: my mother celebrated her 17th birthday in August 1944 in Rome, having been separated from her family and having endured years of bombing in Naples. Not worrying about which degree course to take.
Those who graduated in the early 1980's graduated into a recession.
Before 1979 you couldn't take money out of the country - a bit of a bar to travelling here, there and everywhere.
There are significant issues to deal with but the moaning by the young as if they have or will have a tougher time than previous generations, when life has improved immeasurably over the last 30 years, let alone by comparison with the previous 30, lacks a sense of proportion, frankly.
I graduated in '78, first real job in '79, remained pretty much fully employed since then. I suppose I dodged several bullets!
My father was wounded in Burma and spent 3 years there fighting the Japanese. My mother was bombed in London. They both survived , married and survived REAL austerity - imagine food rationing and a Chancellor who increased taxes "to reduce consumer demand".. When I see lots of obesity - 60% of UK adults are obese, and drinking .,.. and mobile phones - I see not austerity but warped priorities..
(and in reply --) Massive waste of food thrown away and people pointlessly buying overpriced convenience foods.
Yes, good article. Even in conventional terms, Corbyn's mandate was so overwhelming - including amongst full party members, and even pre-2010 party members - that it will be hard for MPs to ditch him, even if they had an easy means and could agree on who they want to put in his place.
One thing, though, I'd take issue with - is it really true that there is an unusual amount of rage and anger at the moment? OK, amongst the die-hard lefties, sure, but then they are always angry that the world won't bend to fit their ideology. But, compared with much of the last fifty years, mostly people seem pretty content: the economy is good, unemployment is fairly low, wages are rising now, the government is competent, scare stories about public services aren't borne out either by reality or by the occasional polls measuring satisfaction, and so on. Of course there are major issues and concerns - immigration, housing, the EU, the refugee crisis - but there's never been a time when there haven't been things to be concerned about. Twitter, Comment is Free, the Telegraph ranting pages, and even politicalbetting.com are not representative of the population at large. We should be careful not to be misled by a self-selected group of the strident and the malcontent.
Yup, and if Labour members were really unhappy with the government they'd have proritised getting rid of it. What they're telling us is that ultimately, they don't think a Tory government is too bad.
I disagree with that conclusion - it's a bit like saying Labour party members thought Thatcher's government was 'less bad' when they voted for Foot, and then Kinnock to be leaders than in the 1990s under Major, when they voted for Blair. A large part of the reason for Corbyn's mandate is in part due to the fact that all the other options were also dire; and within the Labour party there was already a sense of defeatism about 2020 (especially among MPs). It's no wonder that mood filtered down to activists and members, and in the 'grief' of losing 2015 far more badly than many anticipated, they opted for Corbyn.
Polling suggests that most SDP/Lib voters in 1983 favoured the Conservatives over Labour.
Interesting article - but one of its central premises:
Corbyn speaks for, and to, a great big slice of Britain
Is not backed by any polling data I have seen.
If anything Corbyn's supporters are distinctly different from most of Britain - and most of the other candidates who were much closer to the mainstream.
The question 'Is Corbyn a Black Swan or a sitting duck' will be answered in time - but what I've seen so far suggests the latter....
When it comes to the theory of evolution Australia causes so many problems and is all round unique.
Avast, Mr Llama! Are you a creationist? Belike...
Belay that, Cap'n. However, I do find that, as in other areas of science, the current perceived wisdom doesn't seem to explain all the we see around us. Australia just seems to provide more questions than any other place on the planet, and not just in the field of nature.
Totally O/T, but more cheerful news: From the Telegraph:
"New species of deadly 'sit-and-wait' snake discovered in Australia"
Australia is just such an amazing place. Not only do they have the largest number of deadly species in the world but they are still finding new ones. Furthermore, there seems to be no reason why so many of their creatures have developed venom many, many times more toxic than is required to kill their prey.
When it comes to the theory of evolution Australia causes so many problems and is all round unique.
How do we explain their ability at cricket for example? Its weird.
On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.
I saw a comparison of these two pieces by Orwell and Nick Cohen - 74yrs apart and both correctly identifying the crux of Corbyn's views. Well worth a read with a cup of tea.
Yes, good article. Even in conventional terms, Corbyn's mandate was so overwhelming - including amongst full party members, and even pre-2010 party members - that it will be hard for MPs to ditch him, even if they had an easy means and could agree on who they want to put in his place.
One thing, though, I'd take issue with - is it really true that there is an unusual amount of rage and anger at the moment? OK, amongst the die-hard lefties, sure, but then they are always angry that the world won't bend to fit their ideology. But, compared with much of the last fifty years, mostly people seem pretty content: the economy is good, unemployment is fairly low, wages are rising now, the government is competent, scare stories about public services aren't borne out either by reality or by the occasional polls measuring satisfaction, and so on. Of course there are major issues and concerns - immigration, housing, the EU, the refugee crisis - but there's never been a time when there haven't been things to be concerned about. Twitter, Comment is Free, the Telegraph ranting pages, and even politicalbetting.com are not representative of the population at large. We should be careful not to be misled by a self-selected group of the strident and the malcontent.
Yup, and if Labour members were really unhappy with the government they'd have proritised getting rid of it. What they're telling us is that ultimately, they don't think a Tory government is too bad.
I disagree with that conclusion - it's a bit like saying Labour party members thought Thatcher's government was 'less bad' when they voted for Foot, and then Kinnock to be leaders than in the 1990s under Major, when they voted for Blair. A large part of the reason for Corbyn's mandate is in part due to the fact that all the other options were also dire; and within the Labour party there was already a sense of defeatism about 2020 (especially among MPs). It's no wonder that mood filtered down to activists and members, and in the 'grief' of losing 2015 far more badly than many anticipated, they opted for Corbyn.
Polling suggests that most SDP/Lib voters in 1983 favoured the Conservatives over Labour.
Tbf, I was talking about those within the Labour party - SDPers were ex-Labour. Still, I'd be interested to see this polling.
Comments
Nigel Dodds question was a killer.
I see on the BBC ticker, that they are asking for those people Jeremy Corbyn mentioned, to get in tough. They would be incredibly foolish if they did but then perhaps they won't be able to resist their "five minutes of fame." The media will chew them up and spit them out. I still maintain the MSM have to be careful, some of them are going way over the top.
Tom Watson will be the next Leader of the Labour Party, then Unite's takeover of the Labour party will be complete.
Imagine if some Tory Minister said "just because David said it, that doesn;t make it policy"
I also think Blair wanted to sack Brown but was never able or willing. Had IDS remained Conservative leader and Labour won a bigger victory in 2005, I think Blair might have done it after the election.
So it will be the Muslim MP that assassinates the leader. Jezhad.
Lutfur's Independents in Tower Hamlets extend 'hand of friendship' to Corbyn. He reflects their values, they say.
Backed by defenestrated Mayor of Tower Hamlets, next up the sage of Bradford and Baghdad.
Surely you mean 'desperate refugees fleeing a horrible war....'
In 2010 EdM had to appoint a shadow chancellor. He did not want probably the best qualified (and the one who wanted it) but most voter toxic so he appointed the least qualified (who did not want it) but who could deliver a song a dance and a merry quip.
Shock horror the latter resigned, leaving the former (who Ed could not get on with) to take the job.
Did that strengthen Labour? Did that help Ed M? Did it create a coherent economic policy or harmony in the shadow cabinet?
When Blair and Brown fell out. Consequences anybody?
Thatcher and Lawson?
If McDonnell leaves for whatever reason (other than being pushed under a bus by the MI5 and that conspiracy of bankers fermenting world wide weapons sales) then Corbyn is ... TOAST.
Never was that old adage (just whose I wonder) more appropriate - 'It's always the most dangerous of times for a Party when it changes its leader.'
I have some sympathy for victims of the Syrian civil war but that doesn't give people the right to go wherever they want or to try and break into countries illegally. That is why we have a visa system.
If there was disillusionment and disengagement, it was in the cynical realism that saw people accepting Blairite/Brownite control of the party because it was seen as the only possibility. Corbyn represents an outbreak of reckless and probably foolhardy hope.
Which reminds me I wonder if we will get a Corbynquestion from that well known litmus test of public opinion, Anna Dockside-Hooker at next PMQs?
Ah. Where are they now...
The refugee photographs in the press tend to be of children and some women.
The television pictures of immigrants tend to show fit young men.
The press photos are there to support their narrative du jour. Expect more photos in the press of the fit young men in future as the narrative changes from helpless women and children to an invasion by male hordes.
Romania summons Hungarian ambassador.
Dave's solution - women and children only and directly from Syria only, looks more sensible by the day
Merkel will have told Austria to stop them passing through Austria to Germany; so Austria will have told Hungary to to stop them passing through Hungary to Austria.
The runners-up in today's election who should have the most chance are (figure represents number of votes in final round):
Abergavenny M - 6
Harrowby E - 6
Ferrers E - 5
Limerick E - 3
Windlelsham E - 3
This may seem like a joke but as hereditaries automatically get replaced from the same Party it helps Con as they have far more hereditaries (so no attrition here; indeed if someone who doesn't turn up retires / dies it actually helps) - whereas Lab has more Life Peers which is where the attrition is suffered.
You might see it OK for a leader to have a chancellor imposed on him but I cannot possibly comment.
The other issue for a party is 'former leaders'. Of late that has been a good factor for the tories. They have all done the party good service after leaving office. None more so than Michael Howard who stayed to reform and oversee the leadership election. They have all shown humility, ability and common sense.
Step forward Ed Miliband...
There isn't going to be much of a public sector left for Labour to represent. Instead many hundreds of thousands - maybe millions - more private sector employees.
I read out a question to my boss, he was overwhelmed by my abilities!!
It's a botched half-considered nonsense of a "solution" that, as usual, glosses over the real problem which is an end to the fighting in Syria.
As for the "fit young men", who else is going to try to storm the fence - elderly women, children - would it look better if they did ? In crude propaganda terms, it would - we can dismiss the antics of "fir young men" or "thugs" as someone else has called them but if elderly women and children rushed the fence and were tear-gassed, that would look dreadful for the Hungarians.
I find it ironic that the EU states of Eastern Europe who were so keen to see their "fit young men" head to western Europe as soon as the Wall fell, now don't seem so generous to people who will be passing through.
I forgot about the Nigel from Kent caller during the LBC debate.
There are ca. 30 million on the electoral roll. So far he's got 0.85% of that electorate. That's a homeopathic victory.
Every generation thinks they have it tough. But really speak to those who had to live through the war: my mother celebrated her 17th birthday in August 1944 in Rome, having been separated from her family and having endured years of bombing in Naples. Not worrying about which degree course to take.
Those who graduated in the early 1980's graduated into a recession.
Before 1979 you couldn't take money out of the country - a bit of a bar to travelling here, there and everywhere.
There are significant issues to deal with but the moaning by the young as if they have or will have a tougher time than previous generations, when life has improved immeasurably over the last 30 years, let alone by comparison with the previous 30, lacks a sense of proportion, frankly.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Harold_Macmillan#Disputed
Those who graduated in the early 1980's graduated into a recession.
Before 1979 you couldn't take money out of the country - a bit of a bar to travelling here, there and everywhere.
There are significant issues to deal with but the moaning by the young as if they have or will have a tougher time than previous generations, when life has improved immeasurably over the last 30 years, let alone by comparison with the previous 30, lacks a sense of proportion, frankly.
I graduated in '78, first real job in '79, remained pretty much fully employed since then. I suppose I dodged several bullets!
Actually you didn't have to and that is by far the most significant difference between the last 2 generations and those that preceded them. For us at least war has become a game of choice played by professionals.
My father was wounded in Burma and spent 3 years there fighting the Japanese. My mother was bombed in London. They both survived , married and survived REAL austerity - imagine food rationing and a Chancellor who increased taxes "to reduce consumer demand"..
When I see lots of obesity - 60% of UK adults are obese, and drinking .,.. and mobile phones - I see not austerity but warped priorities..
Daily Mirror, Tory rag.
Have Labour really learned the lesson of Ed? Just maybe.
What is clear is that the Tories should stay out of this and let the feathers fly.
We are not quite there yet, but this is approaching an existential crisis for the EU.
And a further boost for British 'out...?'
"New species of deadly 'sit-and-wait' snake discovered in Australia"
Australia is just such an amazing place. Not only do they have the largest number of deadly species in the world but they are still finding new ones. Furthermore, there seems to be no reason why so many of their creatures have developed venom many, many times more toxic than is required to kill their prey.
When it comes to the theory of evolution Australia causes so many problems and is all round unique.
My father was wounded in Burma and spent 3 years there fighting the Japanese. My mother was bombed in London. They both survived , married and survived REAL austerity - imagine food rationing and a Chancellor who increased taxes "to reduce consumer demand"..
When I see lots of obesity - 60% of UK adults are obese, and drinking .,.. and mobile phones - I see not austerity but warped priorities..
In response to the above:-
I agree. My mother and her family knew real hunger. Read Norman Lewis's "Naples 44" (IMO one of the best war books ever written) to learn what it was like. And there were no food banks. If you were caught with black market food, you could and would be shot.
The flat I grew up in had no central heating. Now people moan if their download speeds aren't fast enough.
I have 3 children. I worry about their prospects, of course I do, and I think there are real issues. But in this part of the world at this time they are fantastically lucky to have the opportunities they have and to have grown up in a country without war and without being in the shadow of war. That is very different to previous generations; indeed the last generation of which it could be said would be the late Victorians/Edwardians.
@BethRigby: Lab figure: advisors will be centralised and then allocated to shadow cab rather than shadow ministers being able to pick their own advisor
There isn't going to be much of a public sector left for Labour to represent. Instead many hundreds of thousands - maybe millions - more private sector employees.
Yes could well be 1 million less in 2020.
Oz still has some superb wildlife.
Clearly the German decision has had a lot to do with it, but I wonder if these forces would have been unleashed anyway?
Down thread I said Cameron's solution was looking better by the day.
I'd like to retract that opinion.
It's looking better by the hour.
When I see lots of obesity - 60% of UK adults are obese, and drinking .,.. and mobile phones - I see not austerity but warped priorities..
(and in reply --)
Massive waste of food thrown away and people pointlessly buying overpriced convenience foods.
Corbyn speaks for, and to, a great big slice of Britain
Is not backed by any polling data I have seen.
If anything Corbyn's supporters are distinctly different from most of Britain - and most of the other candidates who were much closer to the mainstream.
The question 'Is Corbyn a Black Swan or a sitting duck' will be answered in time - but what I've seen so far suggests the latter....
Belike, else
http://orwell.ru/library/essays/lion/english/e_eye
http://standpointmag.co.uk/node/6196/full