Probably will be a little bit of "Shy Labour" but on the other hand he'll attract various anarchists and drop-outs who will never actually turn up and vote in a million years...
"Meanwhile 'Friend of the People Smugglers - Come one Come all' Merkel has had to close her border with Austria and suspended the Schengen agreement......"
Where are you getting your news? Germany are still taking as many refugees as arrive and if you think giving money to Kuwait or lebanon to help finance the refugees is in any way equivalent to the 800,000 refugees germany has already taken in and welcomed then you must be Cameron's mother. Why would these refugees be making their way to Germany if they could just stay in comfort and safety locally at Cameron's expense?
PS. "Well I can flesh it out for you" .....Very good post Escobar though not one that will have much resonance with the folk on here.
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Remembering the sacrifice increases the probability that we will not engage in World War again in future.
fetishizing the armed forces, though, does the opposite. I suspect we have not quite reached that yet in the UK, though in the US it is quite evident, and the trend in the UK is not towards remembrance but towards glorification, and compulsory glorification at that (witness the public shaming of anyone not wearing a poppy)
I'll grant people overreact to those not wearing a poppy, but I very much disagree about glorification. The trend is if anything moving away from glorification as the framing of remembrance of the world wars focus on what a bloody waste they were particularly the first. The second we can still find glory in the outcome, but the framing of the first is overwhelmingly that it was pointless. The move away from glorification is another reason the white poppy is purely a look at me political statement as most people wearing the red will not be indulging in glorification but somber remembrance.
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Remembering the sacrifice increases the probability that we will not engage in World War again in future.
fetishizing the armed forces, though, does the opposite. I suspect we have not quite reached that yet in the UK, though in the US it is quite evident, and the trend in the UK is not towards remembrance but towards glorification, and compulsory glorification at that (witness the public shaming of anyone not wearing a poppy)
That's really just rubbish.
At a guess - maybe - 20% of people wear a poppy. And I live in an area of London with longstanding military links.
But there are times I feel a little uncomfortable with American attitudes to their military
The red tops are in a belligerent anti-Corbyn mood this morning. I'm not sure how long he will survive the onslaught but the media needs a counter-attack. For too long British politics has been driven by sucking-up to Murdoch.
What's certain though is that the tories badly miscalculated with their national security message and it has backfired on them, which serves them right for being so negative. One of Cameron's great weaknesses is a tendency to come over as bullying.
Instead, they're regressing to their comfort ground, which in reality is a padded room in a particularly secure mental unit.
There we go again. The tory response of personal attack and particularly to say that those with whom they disagree should be locked up in a mental hospital.
It's chilling.
BTW, it's be good if you learnt to add (snip) to posts when you've snipped them, just to avoid misrepresenting people.
I quoted you verbatim: 'Instead, they're regressing to their comfort ground, which in reality is a padded room in a particularly secure mental unit.'
If you had your time again I think you would have phrased that more felicitously and appropriately. There's no need to descend to the red-top standards on here with insinuations of lunacy against those with whom one disagrees.
Bedlam is a literal and metaphorical place where we scapegoat those with whom we disagree (so, Jacque Derrida). It's a chilling concept.
You got fixated on mental health yesterday - time to change the record methinks?
Yeah, maybe we should discuss something rarely touched upon like the rubbishness of Corbyn or how lefties are morally deficient
Apperently no Scottish Soldiers were ever involved in any wars.. ever..
Cuckoo Cuckoo, take your meds for God's sake you halfwit.
This sort of abuse really makes this site an unpleasant place to read sometimes. Might somebmoedration be in order?
The best thing to do with MalcolmG is to ignore him. He does not have the capacity to argue a point without adding personal insults. its rather sad really,
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Remembering the sacrifice increases the probability that we will not engage in World War again in future.
fetishizing the armed forces, though, does the opposite. I suspect we have not quite reached that yet in the UK, though in the US it is quite evident, and the trend in the UK is not towards remembrance but towards glorification, and compulsory glorification at that (witness the public shaming of anyone not wearing a poppy)
Wearing a poppy is a sign of respect and remembrance not glorification. The idea that acknowledging the sacrifice of those that have provided us our freedoms is 'fetishization' is such a strange mentality to me. There seems to be a strain of left wing thinking that is very antiBritish, and the election of Corbyn has shown that strain is the dominant one in the Labour party.
May have passed under the radar yesterday what with the Corbocalypse unfolding before our eyes, but has 'Teflon Nicola's impermability to political gravity started to wear thinner (albeit from a still stratospherically high base)?
Doing well - net - vs May 1
Cameron: -33 (+1) Sturgeon: +39* (-17)
* A positively North Korean 99 among SNP supporters
May have passed under the radar yesterday what with the Corbocalypse unfolding before our eyes, but has 'Teflon Nicola's impermability to political gravity started to wear thinner (albeit from a still stratospherically high base)?
Doing well - net - vs May 1
Cameron: -33 (+1) Sturgeon: +39* (-17)
* A positively North Korean 99 among SNP supporters
They best hunt down that 1% lack of approval. Get it together Nicola.
In all seriousness, there's no danger of her becoming unpopular any time soon, just going from deity to demigod.
No, but nothing lasts for ever.
She's got a tricky conference coming up where she's got to manage the expectations of the faithful (Indy Now!) with the broader electorate (feck off, you've asked us once, now get on with your job, and while we're at it, about Police Scotland, Scottish NHS and Scottish Education...)
If anyone can pull it off it will be Nicola.....but its not going to get easier....
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Ah, a prectical demonstration of the Corbyn doctrine of National Defence.
Corbyn's idea of National Defence would be to roll out the red carpet at Dover, and help any aggressor off their landing craft and onto the beach. He'd have already hung out bunting and 'Welcome' signs at landing fields.
Jezza "negotiating" with terrorists (be it IRA, Hezbollah or IS) is a vanity project and a show of support - nothing more. What can he achieve? He speaks for no one but himself. How can he negotiate? What can he offer? "Yes, we agree to everything you want."?
A totally pointless exercise.
But that's Jezza's MO. Demonstrations, and speeches to the converted. Virtue-signalling writ large.
Full of sound and fury (and hot air) and a paper dictator.
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Remembering the sacrifice increases the probability that we will not engage in World War again in future.
Does it? Is there any evidence for this?
I wear a red poppy, and remembrance for me has a lot to do with respect, but do nations with remembrance celebrations behave less aggressively or more aggressively? IS is obsessed with "martyrs" as is Hamas and any number of other beligerent groups.
I was thinking Remebrance as practiced in the UK, or Memorial Day in the States, not aggressive veneration of murderers.
Public displays of mourning for the war dead are central to nationalist movements, whether British patriotism or Irish republicanism. They serve as remembrance of people and sacrifice, but also as remembrance of grievances. Think of the Argentine commemorations over the Falklands dead for example.
I wear a red poppy in remembrance of my own family war dead, and meditate on the human cost of war, but is this a desirable thing or just a nessecary thing?
One minute, with Angela Merkel's announcement that Syrian refugees will be taken in, Germany appears to fling open the doors and put out the welcome mat. The next, as border controls are reintroduced, the door is slammed shut and the mat rolled up
May have passed under the radar yesterday what with the Corbocalypse unfolding before our eyes, but has 'Teflon Nicola's impermability to political gravity started to wear thinner (albeit from a still stratospherically high base)?
Doing well - net - vs May 1
Cameron: -33 (+1) Sturgeon: +39* (-17)
* A positively North Korean 99 among SNP supporters
They best hunt down that 1% lack of approval. Get it together Nicola.
In all seriousness, there's no danger of her becoming unpopular any time soon, just going from deity to demigod.
No, but nothing lasts for ever.
She's got a tricky conference coming up where she's got to manage the expectations of the faithful (Indy Now!) with the broader electorate (feck off, you've asked us once, now get on with your job, and while we're at it, about Police Scotland, Scottish NHS and Scottish Education...)
If anyone can pull it off it will be Nicola.....but its not going to get easier....
Or it could be use referendum 2 to avoid questions regarding Police Scotland, Scottish NHS and Scottish Education...
One mistake that many are making - including triumphant Corbynistas and gleeful right-wingers - is believing that Corbyn's policies were what won him the Labour leadership. I just don't think that's true. He won it because people projected their own hopes and aspirations onto him. He was the hope candidate, not the machine politician. For now, he is therefore secure.
But hope can soon turn into something else if it is not fulfilled. And if your electorate is composed of people with very different hopes very soon you are going to start letting parts of it down. It has already happened with the McDonnell appointment and also the snub to women (if the shadow CoE role was not that important, John, why did you want it so much?).
Whatever impression they give now, most Labour members want a Labour government. A few months after a brutal and, for them, largely unexpected trashing in the general election, that is not at the forefront of their minds: they are still coming to terms with the defeat and looking for reasons why it happened. But that will change. And when it does, so the mood in the party will change.
This year's Labour conference will be a Corbyn parade. I would be very surprised indeed if, after the Scottish, Welsh, London and local elections, the atmosphere were the same for next year's. .
"My generation is the first that has not had to fight to defend our national interest. I'll never forget the sacrifices my ancestors made, and I am incredibly proud to be British. I'll probably never understand people like Estobar."
Could be poor standard of history teacher or that you haven't travelled enough.
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Remembering the sacrifice increases the probability that we will not engage in World War again in future.
Does it? Is there any evidence for this?
I wear a red poppy, and remembrance for me has a lot to do with respect, but do nations with remembrance celebrations behave less aggressively or more aggressively? IS is obsessed with "martyrs" as is Hamas and any number of other beligerent groups.
I was thinking Remebrance as practiced in the UK, or Memorial Day in the States, not aggressive veneration of murderers.
Public displays of mourning for the war dead are central to nationalist movements, whether British patriotism or Irish republicanism. They serve as remembrance of people and sacrifice, but also as remembrance of grievances. Think of the Argentine commemorations over the Falklands dead for example.
I wear a red poppy in remembrance of my own family war dead, and meditate on the human cost of war, but is this a desirable thing or just a nessecary thing?
I may be misremembering, but I just do not recall Remembrance Sunday being the big deal it is now 20 or 30 years ago.
If there are going to be 'shy' Labour then pollsters are truly stuffed. They are still trying to work out why the made such a mess of the pre-GE 2015 polling.
I think one of the problems with a utopic world view about shared humanity rather than borders that separate us is that it is very hard for people to emotionally connect with a very wide entity except in limited ways, and labels he,p us do that. It's why we form tribes. Nationalism and religion have been the best ways to get people to identify with larger groups, and still appear to be effective, they just need to be harnessed for good. Sadly they have also been harnessed for the very worst aspect of humanity. But that doesn't make everything connected with either automatically not worth having, if anything the euro elites had the right kind of idea, but bungled it, in trying to fuse identities together to make something larger and better. That's how you build up a focus on wider humanity over narrower focuses, not by expressing surprise at the normal notion that people care about their current tribe over those outside the tribe, risking condescension.
Good morning all. My family has not been lucky when serving its country. All four of my great-grandfathers were killed in the Great War, and both my grandfathers in WW2.
My generation is the first that has not had to fight to defend our national interest. I'll never forget the sacrifices my ancestors made, and I am incredibly proud to be British. I'll probably never understand people like Estobar.
My family thankfully are in a different situation. Members of my family fought in both world wars, and none died, or even got physically injured.
From arguments I have read in recent days, it seems that Labour supporters are more comfortable with respect being shown to Hamas and Hezbollah than our own armed forces.
Good morning all. My family has not been lucky when serving its country. All four of my great-grandfathers were killed in the Great War, and both my grandfathers in WW2.
My generation is the first that has not had to fight to defend our national interest. I'll never forget the sacrifices my ancestors made, and I am incredibly proud to be British.
We may never have had to fight in the same way as our fathers and grandfathers did but there have been plenty in our generation who have had to fight e.g. in the Falklands, in Northern Ireland and elsewhere. It is a mistake to assume that this is ancient history as Estobar does.
When someone dies, you never get over it. You get past it, somehow, eventually. But never over it. What applies on the personal level also applies on the national level.
A war affects not just the generation which fought it but subsequent ones as well. What is the EU other than a reaction to the two World Wars and an attempt to make sure that Europe does not descend again into murderous civil war? (Right diagnosis but wrong prescription, IMO - but that's another argument.)
I also do not understand the refusal to understand the concept of nationhood and Britishness - there is something about Britain, just as there is something about Italy and Ireland - and they are not identical. I have been an outsider in important ways in most of the countries I have lived precisely because of my mixed background (different language, religion to that of the majority) and I think that the outsider's view is valuable.
But when people like Estobar say that there is no difference that strikes me as a very superficial analysis (though it's very common amongst the young) - people can have a common humanity but take a very different view on some quite basic issues and in ways which are not obvious when you're just having a fun evening over a drink. Or on the basis of a few visits to some other country.
The belief in tolerance as a British virtue is also a superficial one (as he/she describes it) - it is easy to be tolerant when there are solid and widely shared assumptions amongst your fellow citizens - because you are tolerating something different from a position of solidity and strength. When those assumptions are no longer so widely shared, then tolerance becomes a weakness. Similarly, just because other people / countries talk about "democracy" - use the same word - does not mean that they mean the same thing in substance. The German Democratic Republic may have used the word but it did not mean the same as in Britain.
And rituals - such as Remembrance Sunday - do matter. There are rituals all over the place in every society and they answer to some deep human need. Pouring scorn on them is very destructive, one reason I think why revolutionaries are so fond of destroying ancient rituals and their commemorative sites.
fetishizing the armed forces, though, does the opposite. I suspect we have not quite reached that yet in the UK, though in the US it is quite evident, and the trend in the UK is not towards remembrance but towards glorification, and compulsory glorification at that (witness the public shaming of anyone not wearing a poppy)
Wearing a poppy is a sign of respect and remembrance not glorification. The idea that acknowledging the sacrifice of those that have provided us our freedoms is 'fetishization' is such a strange mentality to me. There seems to be a strain of left wing thinking that is very antiBritish, and the election of Corbyn has shown that strain is the dominant one in the Labour party.
As I said, I don't think we have quite crossed the boundary in the UK, yet, but in the US fetishization is well underway.
There is a continuous scale going from acknowledging sacrifice to celebrating conflict. And there is quite a difference between acknowledging the sacrifice of those who fought in WW2 and WW1 and celebrating the participation of our forces in bombing libya or piloting drones in syria. But it all takes place in the same ceremony.
Jezza "negotiating" with terrorists (be it IRA, Hezbollah or IS) is a vanity project and a show of support - nothing more. What can he achieve? He speaks for no one but himself. How can he negotiate? What can he offer? "Yes, we agree to everything you want."?
A totally pointless exercise.
But that's Jezza's MO. Demonstrations, and speeches to the converted. Virtue-signalling writ large.
Full of sound and fury (and hot air) and a paper dictator.
Worse, such talks can actually undermine any negotiations that are going on behind the scenes, as they can send an utterly conflicting message from the one the government wishes to send.
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Remembering the sacrifice increases the probability that we will not engage in World War again in future.
Does it? Is there any evidence for this?
I wear a red poppy, and remembrance for me has a lot to do with respect, but do nations with remembrance celebrations behave less aggressively or more aggressively? IS is obsessed with "martyrs" as is Hamas and any number of other beligerent groups.
I was thinking Remebrance as practiced in the UK, or Memorial Day in the States, not aggressive veneration of murderers.
Public displays of mourning for the war dead are central to nationalist movements, whether British patriotism or Irish republicanism. They serve as remembrance of people and sacrifice, but also as remembrance of grievances. Think of the Argentine commemorations over the Falklands dead for example.
I wear a red poppy in remembrance of my own family war dead, and meditate on the human cost of war, but is this a desirable thing or just a nessecary thing?
I may be misremembering, but I just do not recall Remembrance Sunday being the big deal it is now 20 or 30 years ago.
More people attended remembrance ceremonies and services simply because they'd seen active service in WW2 and other conflicts, such as Korea and Aden. And we still had shopping free Sundays.
I will be GLUED to the TV during Lab Conf - I used to love conference season as a youngster, watched them all and enjoyed the TUC one most.
They're pale shades of their former selves - but Labour's this time will be a corker. Lot of self-righteous angry shouting and T-shirt sloganisers. All those SWPers welcomed into the fold.
The new labour types have been very quiet in the last few days but their egos won't allow that for long. I understand the Labour Party conference is imminent, I expect unprecedented scenes of discontent sending this site into raptures. The Corbyn circus hasn't even started yet.
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Remembering the sacrifice increases the probability that we will not engage in World War again in future.
Does it? Is there any evidence for this?
I wear a red poppy, and remembrance for me has a lot to do with respect, but do nations with remembrance celebrations behave less aggressively or more aggressively? IS is obsessed with "martyrs" as is Hamas and any number of other beligerent groups.
I was thinking Remebrance as practiced in the UK, or Memorial Day in the States, not aggressive veneration of murderers.
Public displays of mourning for the war dead are central to nationalist movements, whether British patriotism or Irish republicanism. They serve as remembrance of people and sacrifice, but also as remembrance of grievances. Think of the Argentine commemorations over the Falklands dead for example.
I wear a red poppy in remembrance of my own family war dead, and meditate on the human cost of war, but is this a desirable thing or just a nessecary thing?
I may be misremembering, but I just do not recall Remembrance Sunday being the big deal it is now 20 or 30 years ago.
I can easily believe it has been made a bigger deal,but the focus seemsmuch more reflective on 'remember the tragic loss' not 'remember the loss for the glory of the British race' or some such. Even the stories of heroism are tinged with more sadness.
One mistake that many are making - including triumphant Corbynistas and gleeful right-wingers - is believing that Corbyn's policies were what won him the Labour leadership. I just don't think that's true. He won it because people projected their own hopes and aspirations onto him. He was the hope candidate, not the machine politician. For now, he is therefore secure.
But hope can soon turn into something else if it is not fulfilled. And if your electorate is composed of people with very different hopes very soon you are going to start letting parts of it down. It has already happened with the McDonnell appointment and also the snub to women (if the shadow CoE role was not that important, John, why did you want it so much?).
Whatever impression they give now, most Labour members want a Labour government. A few months after a brutal and, for them, largely unexpected trashing in the general election, that is not at the forefront of their minds: they are still coming to terms with the defeat and looking for reasons why it happened. But that will change. And when it does, so the mood in the party will change.
This year's Labour conference will be a Corbyn parade. I would be very surprised indeed if, after the Scottish, Welsh, London and local elections, the atmosphere were the same for next year's. .
Top post. Corbyn has a chance, of course he does, but movements do intense can break apart easily too.
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Remembering the sacrifice increases the probability that we will not engage in World War again in future.
Does it? Is there any evidence for this?
I wear a red poppy, and remembrance for me has a lot to do with respect, but do nations with remembrance celebrations behave less aggressively or more aggressively? IS is obsessed with "martyrs" as is Hamas and any number of other beligerent groups.
I was thinking Remebrance as practiced in the UK, or Memorial Day in the States, not aggressive veneration of murderers.
Public displays of mourning for the war dead are central to nationalist movements, whether British patriotism or Irish republicanism. They serve as remembrance of people and sacrifice, but also as remembrance of grievances. Think of the Argentine commemorations over the Falklands dead for example.
I wear a red poppy in remembrance of my own family war dead, and meditate on the human cost of war, but is this a desirable thing or just a nessecary thing?
I may be misremembering, but I just do not recall Remembrance Sunday being the big deal it is now 20 or 30 years ago.
More people attended remembrance ceremonies and services simply because they'd seen active service in WW2 and other conflicts, such as Korea and Aden. And we still had shopping free Sundays.
To some extent it's a bigger deal now because we're conscious that soon there won't be anyone left who actually fought in the wars. So it's as if we're catching the last rays of the sun.
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Remembering the sacrifice increases the probability that we will not engage in World War again in future.
Does it? Is there any evidence for this?
I wear a red poppy, and remembrance for me has a lot to do with respect, but do nations with remembrance celebrations behave less aggressively or more aggressively? IS is obsessed with "martyrs" as is Hamas and any number of other beligerent groups.
I was thinking Remebrance as practiced in the UK, or Memorial Day in the States, not aggressive veneration of murderers.
Public displays of mourning for the war dead are central to nationalist movements, whether British patriotism or Irish republicanism. They serve as remembrance of people and sacrifice, but also as remembrance of grievances. Think of the Argentine commemorations over the Falklands dead for example.
I wear a red poppy in remembrance of my own family war dead, and meditate on the human cost of war, but is this a desirable thing or just a nessecary thing?
One of my favourites in Time Out's late lamented 'Lies To Tell Tourists' series was: "In October and November, every Londoner whose grandad shot a German wears a red poppy."
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Remembering the sacrifice increases the probability that we will not engage in World War again in future.
Does it? Is there any evidence for this?
I wear a red poppy, and remembrance for me has a lot to do with respect, but do nations with remembrance celebrations behave less aggressively or more aggressively? IS is obsessed with "martyrs" as is Hamas and any number of other beligerent groups.
I was thinking Remebrance as practiced in the UK, or Memorial Day in the States, not aggressive veneration of murderers.
Public displays of mourning for the war dead are central to nationalist movements, whether British patriotism or Irish republicanism. They serve as remembrance of people and sacrifice, but also as remembrance of grievances. Think of the Argentine commemorations over the Falklands dead for example.
I wear a red poppy in remembrance of my own family war dead, and meditate on the human cost of war, but is this a desirable thing or just a nessecary thing?
I may be misremembering, but I just do not recall Remembrance Sunday being the big deal it is now 20 or 30 years ago.
I can easily believe it has been made a bigger deal,but the focus seemsmuch more reflective on 'remember the tragic loss' not 'remember the loss for the glory of the British race' or some such. Even the stories of heroism are tinged with more sadness.
I agree absolutely. Remembrance in this country has never been about triumphalism. That's why I like it so much.
Jezza "negotiating" with terrorists (be it IRA, Hezbollah or IS) is a vanity project and a show of support - nothing more. What can he achieve? He speaks for no one but himself. How can he negotiate? What can he offer? "Yes, we agree to everything you want."?
A totally pointless exercise.
But that's Jezza's MO. Demonstrations, and speeches to the converted. Virtue-signalling writ large.
Full of sound and fury (and hot air) and a paper dictator.
Worse, such talks can actually undermine any negotiations that are going on behind the scenes, as they can send an utterly conflicting message from the one the government wishes to send.
From arguments I have read in recent days, it seems that Labour supporters are more comfortable with respect being shown to Hamas and Hezbollah than our own armed forces.
From arguments I have read in recent days, it seems that Labour supporters are more comfortable with respect being shown to Hamas and Hezbollah than our own armed forces.
One of Jezza's problems is going to be that they are not. And as he disappoints in other areas, so his past is going to become much more of an issue among members who, like Nick Palmer, are currently choosing either to ignore it or to say it's all a misinterpretation.
May have passed under the radar yesterday what with the Corbocalypse unfolding before our eyes, but has 'Teflon Nicola's impermability to political gravity started to wear thinner (albeit from a still stratospherically high base)?
Doing well - net - vs May 1
Cameron: -33 (+1) Sturgeon: +39* (-17)
* A positively North Korean 99 among SNP supporters
They best hunt down that 1% lack of approval. Get it together Nicola.
In all seriousness, there's no danger of her becoming unpopular any time soon, just going from deity to demigod.
No, but nothing lasts for ever.
She's got a tricky conference coming up where she's got to manage the expectations of the faithful (Indy Now!) with the broader electorate (feck off, you've asked us once, now get on with your job, and while we're at it, about Police Scotland, Scottish NHS and Scottish Education...)
If anyone can pull it off it will be Nicola.....but its not going to get easier....
Or it could be use referendum 2 to avoid questions regarding Police Scotland, Scottish NHS and Scottish Education...
LOL, you must be SLAB, keep repeating "SNP BAD" it may work some day.
And rituals - such as Remembrance Sunday - do matter. There are rituals all over the place in every society and they answer to some deep human need. Pouring scorn on them is very destructive, one reason I think why revolutionaries are so fond of destroying ancient rituals and their commemorative sites.
but the importance of the ritual seems to have been amplified in recent years. -perhaps because of the foxification of the news media. perhaps it started with Michael Foot's jacket.
Now every weatherman has to wear a poppy or face synthetic outrage. I don't think it has always been like that
Jezza "negotiating" with terrorists (be it IRA, Hezbollah or IS) is a vanity project and a show of support - nothing more. What can he achieve? He speaks for no one but himself. How can he negotiate? What can he offer? "Yes, we agree to everything you want."?
A totally pointless exercise.
But that's Jezza's MO. Demonstrations, and speeches to the converted. Virtue-signalling writ large.
Full of sound and fury (and hot air) and a paper dictator.
Worse, such talks can actually undermine any negotiations that are going on behind the scenes, as they can send an utterly conflicting message from the one the government wishes to send.
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
In the words of Kevin Keegan I would love it if Corbyn came out and said that. It would guarantee the end of the labour party beyond reasonable doubt.
Apperently no Scottish Soldiers were ever involved in any wars.. ever..
Cuckoo Cuckoo, take your meds for God's sake you halfwit.
This sort of abuse really makes this site an unpleasant place to read sometimes. Might somebmoedration be in order?
The best thing to do with MalcolmG is to ignore him. He does not have the capacity to argue a point without adding personal insults. its rather sad really,
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Remembering the sacrifice increases the probability that we will not engage in World War again in future.
Does it? Is there any evidence for this?
I wear a red poppy, and remembrance for me has a lot to do with respect, but do nations with remembrance celebrations behave less aggressively or more aggressively? IS is obsessed with "martyrs" as is Hamas and any number of other beligerent groups.
I was thinking Remebrance as practiced in the UK, or Memorial Day in the States, not aggressive veneration of murderers.
Public displays of mourning for the war dead are central to nationalist movements, whether British patriotism or Irish republicanism. They serve as remembrance of people and sacrifice, but also as remembrance of grievances. Think of the Argentine commemorations over the Falklands dead for example.
I wear a red poppy in remembrance of my own family war dead, and meditate on the human cost of war, but is this a desirable thing or just a nessecary thing?
I may be misremembering, but I just do not recall Remembrance Sunday being the big deal it is now 20 or 30 years ago.
I can easily believe it has been made a bigger deal,but the focus seemsmuch more reflective on 'remember the tragic loss' not 'remember the loss for the glory of the British race' or some such. Even the stories of heroism are tinged with more sadness.
I agree absolutely. Remembrance in this country has never been about triumphalism. That's why I like it so much.
Tories have been trying to take it in that direction though
Jezza "negotiating" with terrorists (be it IRA, Hezbollah or IS) is a vanity project and a show of support - nothing more. What can he achieve? He speaks for no one but himself. How can he negotiate? What can he offer? "Yes, we agree to everything you want."?
A totally pointless exercise.
But that's Jezza's MO. Demonstrations, and speeches to the converted. Virtue-signalling writ large.
Full of sound and fury (and hot air) and a paper dictator.
Worse, such talks can actually undermine any negotiations that are going on behind the scenes, as they can send an utterly conflicting message from the one the government wishes to send.
Jezza "negotiating" with terrorists (be it IRA, Hezbollah or IS) is a vanity project and a show of support - nothing more. What can he achieve? He speaks for no one but himself. How can he negotiate? What can he offer? "Yes, we agree to everything you want."?
A totally pointless exercise.
But that's Jezza's MO. Demonstrations, and speeches to the converted. Virtue-signalling writ large.
Full of sound and fury (and hot air) and a paper dictator.
Worse, such talks can actually undermine any negotiations that are going on behind the scenes, as they can send an utterly conflicting message from the one the government wishes to send.
He wasn't negotiating. He was agreeing. He wasn't an intermediary. He was a fellow traveller.
There were people who did try and intermediate. And like all such people - for obvious reasons - they were and remain in the shadows. Corbyn is giving us a wholly untrue and boastful account of his non-existent role in a settlement achieved entirely by the hard work of others.
Were I one of the many people involved in that hard work, here and in Northern and Southern Ireland, I would be furious at the way Corbyn has sought to climb on others' shoulders and wrap himself in the flag of peacemaker. People like him were part of the problem not the solution. He is stealing others' achievements. It is utterly dishonest and dishonourable of him and of those who support him in this lie.
I will be GLUED to the TV during Lab Conf - I used to love conference season as a youngster, watched them all and enjoyed the TUC one most.
They're pale shades of their former selves - but Labour's this time will be a corker. Lot of self-righteous angry shouting and T-shirt sloganisers. All those SWPers welcomed into the fold.
The new labour types have been very quiet in the last few days but their egos won't allow that for long. I understand the Labour Party conference is imminent, I expect unprecedented scenes of discontent sending this site into raptures. The Corbyn circus hasn't even started yet.
Oh goody - I'll get to hear some teenage spods rant speeches about how much Thatcher was the devil no doubt (memo to Tories and labour - perhaps I'm in a minority, but I do not care about Thatcher, please stop bringing her up), and how the baby eating g Tories are poised to arrest anyone who wears red as a precaution against socialism.
The Tory one will surely be boring or scary - news that guards are to be posted outside every home to defend against ravaging hordes of Corbynistas, and parliament moved to rural Oxfordshire to get away from the unwashed masses.
May have passed under the radar yesterday what with the Corbocalypse unfolding before our eyes, but has 'Teflon Nicola's impermability to political gravity started to wear thinner (albeit from a still stratospherically high base)?
Doing well - net - vs May 1
Cameron: -33 (+1) Sturgeon: +39* (-17)
* A positively North Korean 99 among SNP supporters
They best hunt down that 1% lack of approval. Get it together Nicola.
In all seriousness, there's no danger of her becoming unpopular any time soon, just going from deity to demigod.
No, but nothing lasts for ever.
She's got a tricky conference coming up where she's got to manage the expectations of the faithful (Indy Now!) with the broader electorate (feck off, you've asked us once, now get on with your job, and while we're at it, about Police Scotland, Scottish NHS and Scottish Education...)
If anyone can pull it off it will be Nicola.....but its not going to get easier....
Or it could be use referendum 2 to avoid questions regarding Police Scotland, Scottish NHS and Scottish Education...
I think she's too canny for that - if SindyRef2 can be painted as 'We dont want to talk about our record in government' it will be lost - and this time it really will be 'once in a generation'.......
And rituals - such as Remembrance Sunday - do matter. There are rituals all over the place in every society and they answer to some deep human need. Pouring scorn on them is very destructive, one reason I think why revolutionaries are so fond of destroying ancient rituals and their commemorative sites.
but the importance of the ritual seems to have been amplified in recent years. -perhaps because of the foxification of the news media. perhaps it started with Michael Foot's jacket.
Now every weatherman has to wear a poppy or face synthetic outrage. I don't think it has always been like that
Yes - I think that kind of bullying is unedifying.
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Remembering the sacrifice increases the probability that we will not engage in World War again in future.
Does it? Is there any evidence for this?
I wear a red poppy, and remembrance for me has a lot to do with respect, but do nations with remembrance celebrations behave less aggressively or more aggressively? IS is obsessed with "martyrs" as is Hamas and any number of other beligerent groups.
I was thinking Remebrance as practiced in the UK, or Memorial Day in the States, not aggressive veneration of murderers.
Public displays of mourning for the war dead are central to nationalist movements, whether British patriotism or Irish republicanism. They serve as remembrance of people and sacrifice, but also as remembrance of grievances. Think of the Argentine commemorations over the Falklands dead for example.
I wear a red poppy in remembrance of my own family war dead, and meditate on the human cost of war, but is this a desirable thing or just a nessecary thing?
I may be misremembering, but I just do not recall Remembrance Sunday being the big deal it is now 20 or 30 years ago.
I can easily believe it has been made a bigger deal,but the focus seemsmuch more reflective on 'remember the tragic loss' not 'remember the loss for the glory of the British race' or some such. Even the stories of heroism are tinged with more sadness.
I agree absolutely. Remembrance in this country has never been about triumphalism. That's why I like it so much.
Tories have been trying to take it in that direction though
Have to disagree Malcolm. Or if they have, it's been a total failure so it doesn't.matter.
Jezza "negotiating" with terrorists (be it IRA, Hezbollah or IS) is a vanity project and a show of support - nothing more. What can he achieve? He speaks for no one but himself. How can he negotiate? What can he offer? "Yes, we agree to everything you want."?
A totally pointless exercise.
But that's Jezza's MO. Demonstrations, and speeches to the converted. Virtue-signalling writ large.
Full of sound and fury (and hot air) and a paper dictator.
Worse, such talks can actually undermine any negotiations that are going on behind the scenes, as they can send an utterly conflicting message from the one the government wishes to send.
Boo Hoo
A rather strange response ...
Like your posts
Again, a rather strange response. Have you been replaced with an ELIZA?
For me, and I think a lot of people on here miss this, the importance of Corbyn is not whether he can win a General Election. I frankly don't really care. He might become PM before 2020 by dint of parliamentary problems, but it remains unlikely.
No, the real importance is to pull British political discourse not just left but out of the Murdoch media lock and he's already done it. We're debating things on here and in the country that have been largely untouched for twenty years. We are starting to face up to issues in both domestic and international policy that were taken as no-go's. It's a sea change, a shift in zeitgeist, that is ultimately very, very, good for the future.
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Remembering the sacrifice increases the probability that we will not engage in World War again in future.
Does it? Is there any evidence for this?
I wear a red poppy, and remembrance for me has a lot to do with respect, but do nations with remembrance celebrations behave less aggressively or more aggressively? IS is obsessed with "martyrs" as is Hamas and any number of other beligerent groups.
I was thinking Remebrance as practiced in the UK, or Memorial Day in the States, not aggressive veneration of murderers.
Public displays of mourning for the war dead are central to nationalist movements, whether British patriotism or Irish republicanism. They serve as remembrance of people and sacrifice, but also as remembrance of grievances. Think of the Argentine commemorations over the Falklands dead for example.
I wear a red poppy in remembrance of my own family war dead, and meditate on the human cost of war, but is this a desirable thing or just a nessecary thing?
I may be misremembering, but I just do not recall Remembrance Sunday being the big deal it is now 20 or 30 years ago.
I can easily believe it has been made a bigger deal,but the focus seemsmuch more reflective on 'remember the tragic loss' not 'remember the loss for the glory of the British race' or some such. Even the stories of heroism are tinged with more sadness.
I agree absolutely. Remembrance in this country has never been about triumphalism. That's why I like it so much.
Tories have been trying to take it in that direction though
One of the good things about Remembrance Sunday is that both the SNP and Plaid Cymru support it. That tells you it is not about glorying the British nation, but about remembering the dead.
I can understand that there may be a small number of Shy Labour voters - but I agree with @david_herdson here - their voters tend to feel more virtuous for doing so and will discount most of their concerns as being worth it for the greater good.
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Remembering the sacrifice increases the probability that we will not engage in World War again in future.
Does it? Is there any evidence for this?
I wear a red poppy, and remembrance for me has a lot to do with respect, but do nations with remembrance celebrations behave less aggressively or more aggressively? IS is obsessed with "martyrs" as is Hamas and any number of other beligerent groups.
I was thinking Remebrance as practiced in the UK, or Memorial Day in the States, not aggressive veneration of murderers.
Public displays of mourning for the war dead are central to nationalist movements, whether British patriotism or Irish republicanism. They serve as remembrance of people and sacrifice, but also as remembrance of grievances. Think of the Argentine commemorations over the Falklands dead for example.
I wear a red poppy in remembrance of my own family war dead, and meditate on the human cost of war, but is this a desirable thing or just a nessecary thing?
I may be misremembering, but I just do not recall Remembrance Sunday being the big deal it is now 20 or 30 years ago.
Jezza "negotiating" with terrorists (be it IRA, Hezbollah or IS) is a vanity project and a show of support - nothing more. What can he achieve? He speaks for no one but himself. How can he negotiate? What can he offer? "Yes, we agree to everything you want."?
A totally pointless exercise.
But that's Jezza's MO. Demonstrations, and speeches to the converted. Virtue-signalling writ large.
Full of sound and fury (and hot air) and a paper dictator.
Worse, such talks can actually undermine any negotiations that are going on behind the scenes, as they can send an utterly conflicting message from the one the government wishes to send.
Boo Hoo
A rather strange response ...
Like your posts
Again, a rather strange response. Have you been replaced with an ELIZA?
I don't recall triumphalism in the people of Wootton Bassett who turned out spontaneously to show their respects to the dead servicemen and women whose remains were repatriated through their small town......that is the way British people commemorate their dead....not the triumphalist feverish imaginings of some of the serial haters on here.
Re Corbyn, the polling yesterday put down a marker of hostility from the 55+ age groups. He didn't appear to be rated very highly by them, and as OGH keeps saying these cohorts vote.
He doesn't do that well among the 35-55 group either.....
'Best PM - Corbyn vs Cameron - net Corbyn:
18-34: +5 35-55: -19 55+: -35
Corbyn fit to be PM - Net agree:
18-34: +10 35-55: -8 55+: -27
Corbyn still Labour leader at GE2020: Net agree:
18-34: +28 35-55: +10 55+: 0
Corbyn leader makes you more likely to vote Labour: Net
Jezza "negotiating" with terrorists (be it IRA, Hezbollah or IS) is a vanity project and a show of support - nothing more. What can he achieve? He speaks for no one but himself. How can he negotiate? What can he offer? "Yes, we agree to everything you want."?
A totally pointless exercise.
But that's Jezza's MO. Demonstrations, and speeches to the converted. Virtue-signalling writ large.
Full of sound and fury (and hot air) and a paper dictator.
Worse, such talks can actually undermine any negotiations that are going on behind the scenes, as they can send an utterly conflicting message from the one the government wishes to send.
He wasn't negotiating. He was agreeing. He wasn't an intermediary. He was a fellow traveller.
There were people who did try and intermediate. And like all such people - for obvious reasons - they were and remain in the shadows. Corbyn is giving us a wholly untrue and boastful account of his non-existent role in a settlement achieved entirely by the hard work of others.
Were I one of the many people involved in that hard work, here and in Northern and Southern Ireland, I would be furious at the way Corbyn has sought to climb on others' shoulders and wrap himself in the flag of peacemaker. People like him were part of the problem not the solution. He is stealing others' achievements. It is utterly dishonest and dishonourable of him and of those who support him in this lie.
I agree he was not negotiating, but that is the way some of his supporters seem to excuse it.
And rituals - such as Remembrance Sunday - do matter. There are rituals all over the place in every society and they answer to some deep human need. Pouring scorn on them is very destructive, one reason I think why revolutionaries are so fond of destroying ancient rituals and their commemorative sites.
but the importance of the ritual seems to have been amplified in recent years. -perhaps because of the foxification of the news media. perhaps it started with Michael Foot's jacket.
Now every weatherman has to wear a poppy or face synthetic outrage. I don't think it has always been like that
There's nothing more tedious than the annual fatwahs issued by the poppy mullahs. I try to avoid the 'why our grandfathers fought' generalisations (multiple reasons & motives, often contradictory being the only sensible answer), but I'm bloody sure it wasn't so the colour of a bit of paper worn on lapels could be prescribed, or proscribed.
I think a bit more reconciliation at these occasions might be in order. To be parochial, I thought the Edinburgh remembrance ceremony last year that invited the crew of a visiting German frigate to attend was a fine thing.
Jezza "negotiating" with terrorists (be it IRA, Hezbollah or IS) is a vanity project and a show of support - nothing more. What can he achieve? He speaks for no one but himself. How can he negotiate? What can he offer? "Yes, we agree to everything you want."?
A totally pointless exercise.
But that's Jezza's MO. Demonstrations, and speeches to the converted. Virtue-signalling writ large.
Full of sound and fury (and hot air) and a paper dictator.
Worse, such talks can actually undermine any negotiations that are going on behind the scenes, as they can send an utterly conflicting message from the one the government wishes to send.
Boo Hoo
A rather strange response ...
Like your posts
Again, a rather strange response. Have you been replaced with an ELIZA?
Re Corbyn, the polling yesterday put down a marker of hostility from the 55+ age groups. He didn't appear to be rated very highly by them, and as OGH keeps saying these cohorts vote.
A fair proportion of these groups in the South will remember Corbyn's support for the IRA, and other unpopular causes, (not with affection).
Be interested to see how he polls in the Midlands with those who remember the Birmingham pub bombings. (The next election campaign will no doubt refresh their memory ....)
Jezza "negotiating" with terrorists (be it IRA, Hezbollah or IS) is a vanity project and a show of support - nothing more. What can he achieve? He speaks for no one but himself. How can he negotiate? What can he offer? "Yes, we agree to everything you want."?
A totally pointless exercise.
But that's Jezza's MO. Demonstrations, and speeches to the converted. Virtue-signalling writ large.
Full of sound and fury (and hot air) and a paper dictator.
Worse, such talks can actually undermine any negotiations that are going on behind the scenes, as they can send an utterly conflicting message from the one the government wishes to send.
Boo Hoo
A rather strange response ...
Like your posts
Again, a rather strange response. Have you been replaced with an ELIZA?
An extremely primitive one.
Do you think the MI7 budget has been cut?
Slashed to £0. With the collapse in the price of oil, it was either that or Sturgeon's helicopter flights went.
I don't recall triumphalism in the people of Wootton Bassett who turned out spontaneously to show their respects to the dead servicemen and women whose remains were repatriated through their small town......that is the way British people commemorate their dead....not the triumphalist feverish imaginings of some of the serial haters on here.
it's very easy to pull a specific example like that, and make an emotional appeal like that. As it is, even J.Corbyn agrees that the death of servicemen and women in Afghanistan is a tragedy. You don't have to be a serial hater to be doubtful about the current trend of ostentatious support for our troops, which is certainly more exaggerated in the US – hopefully it won't reach the same feverish level in the UK
Re Corbyn, the polling yesterday put down a marker of hostility from the 55+ age groups. He didn't appear to be rated very highly by them, and as OGH keeps saying these cohorts vote.
A fair proportion of these groups in the South will remember Corbyn's support for the IRA, and other unpopular causes, (not with affection).
Be interested to see how he polls in the Midlands with those who remember the Birmingham pub bombings. (The next election campaign will no doubt refresh their memory ....)
More likely to vote Labour with Corbyn Leader (net)
Re Corbyn, the polling yesterday put down a marker of hostility from the 55+ age groups. He didn't appear to be rated very highly by them, and as OGH keeps saying these cohorts vote.
A fair proportion of these groups in the South will remember Corbyn's support for the IRA, and other unpopular causes, (not with affection).
Be interested to see how he polls in the Midlands with those who remember the Birmingham pub bombings. (The next election campaign will no doubt refresh their memory ....)
More likely to vote Labour with Corbyn Leader (net)
South: -7 Mid/Wales: -10 North/Scot: -2
PB has officially fallen in love with polling again
And rituals - such as Remembrance Sunday - do matter. There are rituals all over the place in every society and they answer to some deep human need. Pouring scorn on them is very destructive, one reason I think why revolutionaries are so fond of destroying ancient rituals and their commemorative sites.
but the importance of the ritual seems to have been amplified in recent years. -perhaps because of the foxification of the news media. perhaps it started with Michael Foot's jacket.
Now every weatherman has to wear a poppy or face synthetic outrage. I don't think it has always been like that
Yes - I think that kind of bullying is unedifying.
Equally I don't like Jon Snow's in-your-face-ism about not wearing a poppy (or does he wear a white one?). He's entitled to his own views - it's just disrespectful to others to make a scene
And my next one before I, literally, run: the future of humanity does not lie in nationhood ...
The future of humanity does not lie in cheesy soundbites ...
Well I can flesh it out for you, if you'd rather then? The concept of 'Britain' means less to me than the concept of shared humanity. I do love London, very much, because it encapsulates that cosmopolitan life that I, and many of my friends, encounter whenever I travel the world, which is frequently. I find more in common with other human beings from a range of diverse cultures and 'countries' than I do in the artificial concept of a national identity. In the case of the UK we are, and have always been, a hotch potch of racial and ethnic identities. 'Britishness' and 'nationhood' are not identity markers that give me particular pride any more. I look for, and find, shared humanity.
If 'we' have ideals that matter to me they are the belief in tolerance and democracy, ideals that I find under threat not from Corbyn but from Cameron. Henry G Manson put it all very well yesterday: a crushing of the only thing left that makes Britain worth its Britishness.
I fecking despair. I really want a Labour party that I can vote for, as a non-London, white, middle aged, heterosexual, married Englishman. You don't want me in your party, do you?
My response to Estobar is similar to my response to Innocent Abroad in relation to preferring family members over strangers.
If you claim to identify with all humanity just as much as with your countrymen, you really identify with nobody. If you're a "citizen of the world" you're a citizen of nowhere.
I don't recall triumphalism in the people of Wootton Bassett who turned out spontaneously to show their respects to the dead servicemen and women whose remains were repatriated through their small town......that is the way British people commemorate their dead....not the triumphalist feverish imaginings of some of the serial haters on here.
J.Corbyn agrees that the death of servicemen and women in Afghanistan is a tragedy.
And my next one before I, literally, run: the future of humanity does not lie in nationhood ...
The future of humanity does not lie in cheesy soundbites ...
Well I can flesh it out for you, if you'd rather then? The concept of 'Britain' means less to me than the concept of shared humanity. I do love London, very much, because it encapsulates that cosmopolitan life that I, and many of my friends, encounter whenever I travel the world, which is frequently. I find more in common with other human beings from a range of diverse cultures and 'countries' than I do in the artificial concept of a national identity. In the case of the UK we are, and have always been, a hotch potch of racial and ethnic identities. 'Britishness' and 'nationhood' are not identity markers that give me particular pride any more. I look for, and find, shared humanity.
If 'we' have ideals that matter to me they are the belief in tolerance and democracy, ideals that I find under threat not from Corbyn but from Cameron. Henry G Manson put it all very well yesterday: a crushing of the only thing left that makes Britain worth its Britishness.
I fecking despair. I really want a Labour party that I can vote for, as a non-London, white, middle aged, heterosexual, married Englishman. You don't want me in your party, do you?
They want your vote, but not your creed or culture.
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Au contraire, I can't think of a single person who will watch this week's 75th anniversary of the Battle of Britain and think - "time to move on from this..." We celebrate ultimate sacrifice. That will never, ever go out of fashion.
Alistair Darling has launched a scathing attack on Nicola Sturgeon’s “base political” scheming in talking up a second independence referendum and claimed she does not want one “any time soon” because she knows she would lose.
In an interview with the Telegraph to mark the forthcoming first anniversary of last year’s referendum, the leader of the pro-Union Better Together campaign said Ms Sturgeon was only raising the prospect of a rerun to keep SNP members happy and “let them down lightly”.
Re Corbyn, the polling yesterday put down a marker of hostility from the 55+ age groups. He didn't appear to be rated very highly by them, and as OGH keeps saying these cohorts vote.
A fair proportion of these groups in the South will remember Corbyn's support for the IRA, and other unpopular causes, (not with affection).
Be interested to see how he polls in the Midlands with those who remember the Birmingham pub bombings. (The next election campaign will no doubt refresh their memory ....)
More likely to vote Labour with Corbyn Leader (net)
South: -7 Mid/Wales: -10 North/Scot: -2
Thanks. Good job there are no marginals for Labour to lose in Wales and the Midlands then.
If the Trade Union Bill passes quickly and without major alterations the group that will benefit most from this is the Progress/NewLabour/Blairites (PNLB) group. At present the Labour party is:- 1. Reliant on the Unions for 80%+ of its donations, up from the 30% it once was. 2. Dominated by the Unions, the Union paid political staff and Union call centres which influence MPs and clearly helped Corbyn get elected. But the indications are that people such as Lord Faulkner and other PNLB Lords will be lining up to delay and wreck the Bill. Ironic? Or just an other indication at how the PNLB group keep being outmaneourvred within the party. They do not know how to change the dynamics within their party and badly need a Mandelson type genius. John Woodcock is just an empty vessel at the top of Progress.
I will be GLUED to the TV during Lab Conf - I used to love conference season as a youngster, watched them all and enjoyed the TUC one most.
They're pale shades of their former selves - but Labour's this time will be a corker. Lot of self-righteous angry shouting and T-shirt sloganisers. All those SWPers welcomed into the fold.
The new labour types have been very quiet in the last few days but their egos won't allow that for long. I understand the Labour Party conference is imminent, I expect unprecedented scenes of discontent sending this site into raptures. The Corbyn circus hasn't even started yet.
Oh goody - I'll get to hear some teenage spods rant speeches about how much Thatcher was the devil no doubt (memo to Tories and labour - perhaps I'm in a minority, but I do not care about Thatcher, please stop bringing her up), and how the baby eating g Tories are poised to arrest anyone who wears red as a precaution against socialism.
The Tory one will surely be boring or scary - news that guards are to be posted outside every home to defend against ravaging hordes of Corbynistas, and parliament moved to rural Oxfordshire to get away from the unwashed masses.
And my next one before I, literally, run: the future of humanity does not lie in nationhood ...
The future of humanity does not lie in cheesy soundbites ...
Well I can flesh it out for you, if you'd rather then? The concept of 'Britain' means less to me than the concept of shared humanity. I do love London, very much, because it encapsulates that cosmopolitan life that I, and many of my friends, encounter whenever I travel the world, which is frequently. I find more in common with other human beings from a range of diverse cultures and 'countries' than I do in the artificial concept of a national identity. In the case of the UK we are, and have always been, a hotch potch of racial and ethnic identities. 'Britishness' and 'nationhood' are not identity markers that give me particular pride any more. I look for, and find, shared humanity.
If 'we' have ideals that matter to me they are the belief in tolerance and democracy, ideals that I find under threat not from Corbyn but from Cameron. Henry G Manson put it all very well yesterday: a crushing of the only thing left that makes Britain worth its Britishness.
I fecking despair. I really want a Labour party that I can vote for, as a non-London, white, middle aged, heterosexual, married Englishman. You don't want me in your party, do you?
I think you make a good point here. I'm not a natural Labour voter (I was strongly tempted to vote Blair in '97; in all honesty I can't remember if I did or not), but I do think its healthy to have an alternative. The current choice of Labour, Plaid, LDs and UKIP is not inspiring.
My view is that fifteen years of Conservative administration is likely to end badly - but that's where we're headed.
And my next one before I, literally, run: the future of humanity does not lie in nationhood ...
The future of humanity does not lie in cheesy soundbites ...
Well I can flesh it out for you, if you'd rather then? The concept of 'Britain' means less to me than the concept of shared humanity. I do love London, very much, because it encapsulates that cosmopolitan life that I, and many of my friends, encounter whenever I travel the world, which is frequently. I find more in common with other human beings from a range of diverse cultures and 'countries' than I do in the artificial concept of a national identity. In the case of the UK we are, and have always been, a hotch potch of racial and ethnic identities. 'Britishness' and 'nationhood' are not identity markers that give me particular pride any more. I look for, and find, shared humanity.
If 'we' have ideals that matter to me they are the belief in tolerance and democracy, ideals that I find under threat not from Corbyn but from Cameron. Henry G Manson put it all very well yesterday: a crushing of the only thing left that makes Britain worth its Britishness.
I fecking despair. I really want a Labour party that I can vote for, as a non-London, white, middle aged, heterosexual, married Englishman. You don't want me in your party, do you?
What makes travel interesting (for me at any rate) is to encounter peoples, cultures, and histories that are very clearly different from one's own. When I go abroad, I don't think they're all the same as us.
I agree with those who make the morality point. Fans of Harry Enfield may consider that some Labour sorts (those chanting when Corbyn won) may as well run around saying "We are considerably holier than thou."
There might be a small shy factor, though. People who despair of Corbyn but are reluctantly loyal, even then, to Labour, *might* become a factor.
A more interesting question might be whether shy Tories will cease to be a phenomenon.
I don't recall triumphalism in the people of Wootton Bassett who turned out spontaneously to show their respects to the dead servicemen and women whose remains were repatriated through their small town......that is the way British people commemorate their dead....not the triumphalist feverish imaginings of some of the serial haters on here.
it's very easy to pull a specific example like that, and make an emotional appeal like that. As it is, even J.Corbyn agrees that the death of servicemen and women in Afghanistan is a tragedy. You don't have to be a serial hater to be doubtful about the current trend of ostentatious support for our troops, which is certainly more exaggerated in the US – hopefully it won't reach the same feverish level in the UK
With eyes wide open, Labour has chosen to elect Jeremy Corbyn as its new leader, and he has appointed John McDonnell as his shadow chancellor. So today’s Labour party not only threatens national security, but is a clear threat to our economic security too.
And my next one before I, literally, run: the future of humanity does not lie in nationhood ...
The future of humanity does not lie in cheesy soundbites ...
Well I can flesh it out for you, if you'd rather then? The concept of 'Britain' means less to me than the concept of shared humanity. I do love London, very much, because it encapsulates that cosmopolitan life that I, and many of my friends, encounter whenever I travel the world, which is frequently. I find more in common with other human beings from a range of diverse cultures and 'countries' than I do in the artificial concept of a national identity. In the case of the UK we are, and have always been, a hotch potch of racial and ethnic identities. 'Britishness' and 'nationhood' are not identity markers that give me particular pride any more. I look for, and find, shared humanity.
If 'we' have ideals that matter to me they are the belief in tolerance and democracy, ideals that I find under threat not from Corbyn but from Cameron. Henry G Manson put it all very well yesterday: a crushing of the only thing left that makes Britain worth its Britishness.
I fecking despair. I really want a Labour party that I can vote for, as a non-London, white, middle aged, heterosexual, married Englishman. You don't want me in your party, do you?
After suitable re-education I'm sure they could find a corner for you to sit in.......
Joking apart, there is clearly a large and widening gulf between 'traditional' (and very small c conservative) Labour voters and the metropolitan London Labour party
And my next one before I, literally, run: the future of humanity does not lie in nationhood ...
The future of humanity does not lie in cheesy soundbites ...
Well I can flesh it out for you, if you'd rather then? The concept of 'Britain' means less to me than the concept of shared humanity. I do love London, very much, because it encapsulates that cosmopolitan life that I, and many of my friends, encounter whenever I travel the world, which is frequently. I find more in common with other human beings from a range of diverse cultures and 'countries' than I do in the artificial concept of a national identity. In the case of the UK we are, and have always been, a hotch potch of racial and ethnic identities. 'Britishness' and 'nationhood' are not identity markers that give me particular pride any more. I look for, and find, shared humanity.
If 'we' have ideals that matter to me they are the belief in tolerance and democracy, ideals that I find under threat not from Corbyn but from Cameron. Henry G Manson put it all very well yesterday: a crushing of the only thing left that makes Britain worth its Britishness.
I fecking despair. I really want a Labour party that I can vote for, as a non-London, white, middle aged, heterosexual, married Englishman. You don't want me in your party, do you?
And my next one before I, literally, run: the future of humanity does not lie in nationhood ...
The future of humanity does not lie in cheesy soundbites ...
Well I can flesh it out for you, if you'd rather then? The concept of 'Britain' means less to me than the concept of shared humanity. I do love London, very much, because it encapsulates that cosmopolitan life that I, and many of my friends, encounter whenever I travel the world, which is frequently. I find more in common with other human beings from a range of diverse cultures and 'countries' than I do in the artificial concept of a national identity. In the case of the UK we are, and have always been, a hotch potch of racial and ethnic identities. 'Britishness' and 'nationhood' are not identity markers that give me particular pride any more. I look for, and find, shared humanity.
If 'we' have ideals that matter to me they are the belief in tolerance and democracy, ideals that I find under threat not from Corbyn but from Cameron. Henry G Manson put it all very well yesterday: a crushing of the only thing left that makes Britain worth its Britishness.
I fecking despair. I really want a Labour party that I can vote for, as a non-London, white, middle aged, heterosexual, married Englishman. You don't want me in your party, do you?
I think you make a good point here. I'm not a natural Labour voter (I was strongly tempted to vote Blair in '97; in all honesty I can't remember if I did or not), but I do think its healthy to have an alternative. The current choice of Labour, Plaid, LDs and UKIP is not inspiring.
My view is that fifteen years of Conservative administration is likely to end badly - but that's where we're headed.
My hope is for a breakaway from Labour that will merge with Lib Dems and create a sensible, viable opposition. Frank Field was on the R4 just after 8 this morning sounding very sensible and reasonable even though he was disagreeing with Osborne. A shame he never got anywhere in his parliamentary career.
I fecking despair. I really want a Labour party that I can vote for, as a non-London, white, middle aged, heterosexual, married Englishman. You don't want me in your party, do you?
If the Lib Dems are competent they will be paying close attention to views like yours from centre-left voters. If they can't capitalise on what Labour are doing they might as well shut up shop.
And my next one before I, literally, run: the future of humanity does not lie in nationhood ...
The future of humanity does not lie in cheesy soundbites ...
Well I can flesh it out for you, if you'd rather then? The concept of 'Britain' means less to me than the concept of shared humanity. I do love London, very much, because it encapsulates that cosmopolitan life that I, and many of my friends, encounter whenever I travel the world, which is frequently. I find more in common with other human beings from a range of diverse cultures and 'countries' than I do in the artificial concept of a national identity. In the case of the UK we are, and have always been, a hotch potch of racial and ethnic identities. 'Britishness' and 'nationhood' are not identity markers that give me particular pride any more. I look for, and find, shared humanity.
If 'we' have ideals that matter to me they are the belief in tolerance and democracy, ideals that I find under threat not from Corbyn but from Cameron. Henry G Manson put it all very well yesterday: a crushing of the only thing left that makes Britain worth its Britishness.
I fecking despair. I really want a Labour party that I can vote for, as a non-London, white, middle aged, heterosexual, married Englishman. You don't want me in your party, do you?
Your view represents a very large segment of the people who actually voted for the Labour party in 2015. The unknown question is whether that is 1/3, 1/2 or 2/3 of that GE2015 Labour vote. Even if it is just 1/3, if that vote went elsewhere or DNV, you represent the group that could bring Corbyn down. But if you are to vote who do the type of voters you represent vote for? Not Greens or the Lib Dems as they have similar views to Corbynistas. it comes down to UKIP, the Conservatives or a new party.
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Au contraire, I can't think of a single person who will watch this week's 75th anniversary of the Battle of Britain and think - "time to move on from this..." We celebrate ultimate sacrifice. That will never, ever go out of fashion.
Maybe Jezza can get Gerry Adams to stand in for him at the Cenotaph.
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Au contraire, I can't think of a single person who will watch this week's 75th anniversary of the Battle of Britain and think - "time to move on from this..." We celebrate ultimate sacrifice. That will never, ever go out of fashion.
Maybe Jezza can get Gerry Adams to stand in for him at the Cenotaph.
Again, a rather strange response. Have you been replaced with an ELIZA?
An extremely primitive one.
A bulletin board I go on (in fact, I've been on it for about 24 years!) used to have an ELIZA that would randomly respond to posts. At least, it was allegedly an ELIZA: I always suspected there was someone having fun behind the scenes.
I wonder if OGH has implemented a similar system on PB and called it Malc ...
I fecking despair. I really want a Labour party that I can vote for, as a non-London, white, middle aged, heterosexual, married Englishman. You don't want me in your party, do you?
If the Lib Dems are competent they will be paying close attention to views like yours from centre-left voters. If they can't capitalise on what Labour are doing they might as well shut up shop.
The Party Conference starts on Sunday. We’ll see.
JonathanD, do you mean like the SDP? Remember history is supposedc repeat itself twice. The first as farce, the second as tragedy. If Labour split again, will that be second or third time? What about 1931?
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Au contraire, I can't think of a single person who will watch this week's 75th anniversary of the Battle of Britain and think - "time to move on from this..." We celebrate ultimate sacrifice. That will never, ever go out of fashion.
Maybe Jezza can get Gerry Adams to stand in for him at the Cenotaph.
I'll stick my neck out here then run for cover ...
Yes I do think it's time to move on from Remembrance Day. I think we should say 'thank you, thank you for sacrificing, thank you for what you did in the cause you were told, and may have believed, was right. We thank you.'
But now it's time to move on. By the way, I know many many people, including Conservative voters, who privately agree with me on this.
Au contraire, I can't think of a single person who will watch this week's 75th anniversary of the Battle of Britain and think - "time to move on from this..." We celebrate ultimate sacrifice. That will never, ever go out of fashion.
Maybe Jezza can get Gerry Adams to stand in for him at the Cenotaph.
Are you one of the 4%?
SINN Féin leader Gerry Adams has once again denied he was ever a member of the IRA - despite being presented with an opinion poll which showed that just 4pc of voters believed him.
I fecking despair. I really want a Labour party that I can vote for, as a non-London, white, middle aged, heterosexual, married Englishman. You don't want me in your party, do you?
If the Lib Dems are competent they will be paying close attention to views like yours from centre-left voters. If they can't capitalise on what Labour are doing they might as well shut up shop.
Yes but they have gone for Farron and shifted away from the orange bookers. The Lib Dems lack a resonance with middle england Mail readers.
Comments
So these should off set each other.
"Meanwhile 'Friend of the People Smugglers - Come one Come all' Merkel has had to close her border with Austria and suspended the Schengen agreement......"
Where are you getting your news? Germany are still taking as many refugees as arrive and if you think giving money to Kuwait or lebanon to help finance the refugees is in any way equivalent to the 800,000 refugees germany has already taken in and welcomed then you must be Cameron's mother. Why would these refugees be making their way to Germany if they could just stay in comfort and safety locally at Cameron's expense?
PS. "Well I can flesh it out for you" .....Very good post Escobar though not one that will have much resonance with the folk on here.
At a guess - maybe - 20% of people wear a poppy. And I live in an area of London with longstanding military links.
But there are times I feel a little uncomfortable with American attitudes to their military
She's got a tricky conference coming up where she's got to manage the expectations of the faithful (Indy Now!) with the broader electorate (feck off, you've asked us once, now get on with your job, and while we're at it, about Police Scotland, Scottish NHS and Scottish Education...)
If anyone can pull it off it will be Nicola.....but its not going to get easier....
Jezza "negotiating" with terrorists (be it IRA, Hezbollah or IS) is a vanity project and a show of support - nothing more. What can he achieve? He speaks for no one but himself. How can he negotiate? What can he offer? "Yes, we agree to everything you want."?
A totally pointless exercise.
But that's Jezza's MO. Demonstrations, and speeches to the converted. Virtue-signalling writ large.
Full of sound and fury (and hot air) and a paper dictator.
I wear a red poppy in remembrance of my own family war dead, and meditate on the human cost of war, but is this a desirable thing or just a nessecary thing?
One minute, with Angela Merkel's announcement that Syrian refugees will be taken in, Germany appears to fling open the doors and put out the welcome mat. The next, as border controls are reintroduced, the door is slammed shut and the mat rolled up
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34248048
But hope can soon turn into something else if it is not fulfilled. And if your electorate is composed of people with very different hopes very soon you are going to start letting parts of it down. It has already happened with the McDonnell appointment and also the snub to women (if the shadow CoE role was not that important, John, why did you want it so much?).
Whatever impression they give now, most Labour members want a Labour government. A few months after a brutal and, for them, largely unexpected trashing in the general election, that is not at the forefront of their minds: they are still coming to terms with the defeat and looking for reasons why it happened. But that will change. And when it does, so the mood in the party will change.
This year's Labour conference will be a Corbyn parade. I would be very surprised indeed if, after the Scottish, Welsh, London and local elections, the atmosphere were the same for next year's. .
"My generation is the first that has not had to fight to defend our national interest. I'll never forget the sacrifices my ancestors made, and I am incredibly proud to be British. I'll probably never understand people like Estobar."
Could be poor standard of history teacher or that you haven't travelled enough.
Lucky.
When someone dies, you never get over it. You get past it, somehow, eventually. But never over it. What applies on the personal level also applies on the national level.
A war affects not just the generation which fought it but subsequent ones as well. What is the EU other than a reaction to the two World Wars and an attempt to make sure that Europe does not descend again into murderous civil war? (Right diagnosis but wrong prescription, IMO - but that's another argument.)
I also do not understand the refusal to understand the concept of nationhood and Britishness - there is something about Britain, just as there is something about Italy and Ireland - and they are not identical. I have been an outsider in important ways in most of the countries I have lived precisely because of my mixed background (different language, religion to that of the majority) and I think that the outsider's view is valuable.
But when people like Estobar say that there is no difference that strikes me as a very superficial analysis (though it's very common amongst the young) - people can have a common humanity but take a very different view on some quite basic issues and in ways which are not obvious when you're just having a fun evening over a drink. Or on the basis of a few visits to some other country.
The belief in tolerance as a British virtue is also a superficial one (as he/she describes it) - it is easy to be tolerant when there are solid and widely shared assumptions amongst your fellow citizens - because you are tolerating something different from a position of solidity and strength. When those assumptions are no longer so widely shared, then tolerance becomes a weakness. Similarly, just because other people / countries talk about "democracy" - use the same word - does not mean that they mean the same thing in substance. The German Democratic Republic may have used the word but it did not mean the same as in Britain.
And rituals - such as Remembrance Sunday - do matter. There are rituals all over the place in every society and they answer to some deep human need. Pouring scorn on them is very destructive, one reason I think why revolutionaries are so fond of destroying ancient rituals and their commemorative sites.
There is a continuous scale going from acknowledging sacrifice to celebrating conflict. And there is quite a difference between acknowledging the sacrifice of those who fought in WW2 and WW1 and celebrating the participation of our forces in bombing libya or piloting drones in syria. But it all takes place in the same ceremony.
They're pale shades of their former selves - but Labour's this time will be a corker. Lot of self-righteous angry shouting and T-shirt sloganisers. All those SWPers welcomed into the fold.
Just brilliant
Now every weatherman has to wear a poppy or face synthetic outrage. I don't think it has always been like that
There were people who did try and intermediate. And like all such people - for obvious reasons - they were and remain in the shadows. Corbyn is giving us a wholly untrue and boastful account of his non-existent role in a settlement achieved entirely by the hard work of others.
Were I one of the many people involved in that hard work, here and in Northern and Southern Ireland, I would be furious at the way Corbyn has sought to climb on others' shoulders and wrap himself in the flag of peacemaker. People like him were part of the problem not the solution. He is stealing others' achievements. It is utterly dishonest and dishonourable of him and of those who support him in this lie.
Einstein had good advice on dose repeating.
The Tory one will surely be boring or scary - news that guards are to be posted outside every home to defend against ravaging hordes of Corbynistas, and parliament moved to rural Oxfordshire to get away from the unwashed masses.
I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or actually mean it. Either way - you're talking nonsense. Amusing nonsense, but nonsense.
Another excellent post, btw.
I think a bit more reconciliation at these occasions might be in order. To be parochial, I thought the Edinburgh remembrance ceremony last year that invited the crew of a visiting German frigate to attend was a fine thing.
South: -7
Mid/Wales: -10
North/Scot: -2
I really want a Labour party that I can vote for, as a non-London, white, middle aged, heterosexual, married Englishman.
You don't want me in your party, do you?
If you claim to identify with all humanity just as much as with your countrymen, you really identify with nobody. If you're a "citizen of the world" you're a citizen of nowhere.
Oh....
1. Reliant on the Unions for 80%+ of its donations, up from the 30% it once was.
2. Dominated by the Unions, the Union paid political staff and Union call centres which influence MPs and clearly helped Corbyn get elected.
But the indications are that people such as Lord Faulkner and other PNLB Lords will be lining up to delay and wreck the Bill. Ironic? Or just an other indication at how the PNLB group keep being outmaneourvred within the party. They do not know how to change the dynamics within their party and badly need a Mandelson type genius. John Woodcock is just an empty vessel at the top of Progress.
The security around conferences is immense.
My view is that fifteen years of Conservative administration is likely to end badly - but that's where we're headed.
I agree with those who make the morality point. Fans of Harry Enfield may consider that some Labour sorts (those chanting when Corbyn won) may as well run around saying "We are considerably holier than thou."
There might be a small shy factor, though. People who despair of Corbyn but are reluctantly loyal, even then, to Labour, *might* become a factor.
A more interesting question might be whether shy Tories will cease to be a phenomenon.
Joking apart, there is clearly a large and widening gulf between 'traditional' (and very small c conservative) Labour voters and the metropolitan London Labour party
My hope is for a breakaway from Labour that will merge with Lib Dems and create a sensible, viable opposition. Frank Field was on the R4 just after 8 this morning sounding very sensible and reasonable even though he was disagreeing with Osborne. A shame he never got anywhere in his parliamentary career.
Why? You sound like you have a version of battered wife syndrome
I wonder if OGH has implemented a similar system on PB and called it Malc ...
JonathanD, do you mean like the SDP?
Remember history is supposedc repeat itself twice. The first as farce, the second as tragedy. If Labour split again, will that be second or third time? What about 1931?
.... with an aerosol
SINN Féin leader Gerry Adams has once again denied he was ever a member of the IRA - despite being presented with an opinion poll which showed that just 4pc of voters believed him.
http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/just-4pc-believe-adams-wasnt-in-the-ira-31527060.html