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  • Charles said:

    Re. The 'two camels for a blonde' discussion.

    A big issue here are arranged marriages and resultant dowries, which institutionalises the concept that a woman has a price with which she can be purchased.

    Once that attitude predominates within a culture, women have a monetary value. It's particularly terrible where the complementary concept of a 'dower' is non-existent or weak.

    Sadly, this concept is very wide spread - from India through Eastern Europe to the Middle East.

    The concept of a dowry is to provide protection for the women. In a society where they have fewer legal rights (eg 19C Britain) the dowry is paid to the father to hold in trust for his daughter. While all the daughter's other assets become the property of her husband in these societies, the dowry remains inalienably hers.

    Still, clearly, outmoded and inequitable but not intended to be a "price" for the woman
    In most parts of India, it's the other way round. The bride's family have to "pay" the in-laws to marry off their daughter.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    An AUTOMATIC sports car.. The world is coming to an end. If it aint got gears it aint a sports car... well not as far as I am concerned

    I haven't driven a Manual since my driving test in 1997...
    Me since 1979 when I got my Chrysler Cordoba 'sports car' and my Cadillac Coupe de Ville with an 8.2 liter engine.
  • Both. But fancy sending that to her.

    The funniest thing about it is that the lady works at the chambers of Michael Mansfield QC. You'd have thought that would flag up a bloody great Danger! Here be Guardianistas! sign.

    There is no explaining the actions of middle aged, male City lawyers. I have seen and heard a lot, lot worse. But what an idiot. His firm - which is a US one - will be cursing him.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Plato said:

    A shorter version

    Pathetic BBC response to Panorama Stitch Up

    We have received a wide range of feedback about our coverage of this story...

    And we decided we were right.


    Kind Regards

    BBC Complaints

    That is the BBC response to every complaint I have ever sent them.

    Didn't it come out a while ago that one of the people that worked at the BBC complaints was a Labour voter who complained on social media that he was fed up of responding to Tories?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Guardian live
    David Lammy, a candidate in the London mayoral candidate election, told the World at One that the party needed to hold an inquiry into problems with the electoral system after the contest. He said that his team had been calling members and supporters in London, and that almost 20% of them had not had a ballot paper.

    If you are ringing say 150, 200 people in the course of an evening, or attempting to do that, what they say to me is one in five people were saying in London – and this is obviously London that I am focussed on - that they have not received a ballot. And that was up to last night.

    So I suspect now that this is closed there will be a clamour of people very, very upset that, despite being a member - or indeed someone who has signed up and paid their £3 and haven’t been excluded because they do not share the values of the Labour party - for a few of those people they have not been able to vote.

    Now the extent of this across the country needs proper inquiry and proper understanding. Whether it has affected the ultimate vote I do not know.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774


    You can search for your prediction here: http://show.nojam.com/a2sY/search.php?b=0

    Amused to see this:
    Name TSE
    Winner Cooper
    Burnham % 18.23, Cooper %, 21.21, Corbyn % 52.55, Kendall % 8.01
  • JEO said:

    Plato said:

    A shorter version

    Pathetic BBC response to Panorama Stitch Up

    We have received a wide range of feedback about our coverage of this story...

    And we decided we were right.


    Kind Regards

    BBC Complaints

    That is the BBC response to every complaint I have ever sent them.

    Didn't it come out a while ago that one of the people that worked at the BBC complaints was a Labour voter who complained on social media that he was fed up of responding to Tories?
    Social media? Or Socialist media?

    :lol:
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2015/09/project-red-dawn/

    Project Red Dawn looks to me more about the Twilight of the Sods.
  • There is no explaining the actions of middle aged, male City lawyers. I have seen and heard a lot, lot worse. But what an idiot. His firm - which is a US one - will be cursing him.

    I hadn't realised it's a US firm. That's even funnier. And having the name Carter-Silk is a splendid touch.
  • Both. But fancy sending that to her.

    So you're implying he should have gone to Specsavers?

    Ha, ha.

    I am saying he was a bloody idiot to send that response. As Richard says, that he sent it to a barrister in the chambers of Michal Mansfield merely compounds the stupidity.

  • Those £3 voters are mostly Corbynites ; they are not going to register and then not bother voting ...it is the ABC candidates who are uninspiring
  • Cromwell said:

    If a Corbynmania surge gives Khan a narrow victory over Jowell and then he loses to a Tory it will be a double disaster for Labour ...and yet it could happen ; I feel much more confident predicting a Corbyn first ballot win than predicting a Jowell victory

    Every electoral defeat over the next couple of years will only be good for Labour's long-term health. A Khan defeat in London would be curtains for Corbyn, I'd hazard. He might survive a little longer with a Jowell defeat.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited September 2015
    I've complained twice and got the We Were Right response.

    The only time I got a real one was when I was eagle-eyed enough to spot the One Show's producer in the closing credits - it had some appalling sneering at the Tories just before GE2010.

    I guessed the guy's email address and got a personal reply apologising for going too far/that it was meant to be *funny*. Kudos to him.
    JEO said:

    Plato said:

    A shorter version

    Pathetic BBC response to Panorama Stitch Up

    We have received a wide range of feedback about our coverage of this story...

    And we decided we were right.


    Kind Regards

    BBC Complaints

    That is the BBC response to every complaint I have ever sent them.

    Didn't it come out a while ago that one of the people that worked at the BBC complaints was a Labour voter who complained on social media that he was fed up of responding to Tories?
  • Cromwell said:

    If a Corbynmania surge gives Khan a narrow victory over Jowell and then he loses to a Tory it will be a double disaster for Labour ...and yet it could happen ; I feel much more confident predicting a Corbyn first ballot win than predicting a Jowell victory

    Every electoral defeat over the next couple of years will only be good for Labour's long-term health. A Khan defeat in London would be curtains for Corbyn, I'd hazard. He might survive a little longer with a Jowell defeat.

    Assuming Corbyn wins, how do we bet:

    (a) Jowell v Goldsmith
    (b) Khan v Goldsmith
  • There is no explaining the actions of middle aged, male City lawyers. I have seen and heard a lot, lot worse. But what an idiot. His firm - which is a US one - will be cursing him.

    I hadn't realised it's a US firm. That's even funnier. And having the name Carter-Silk is a splendid touch.
    The only way it could have been funnier if he had sent it to Miss Anal Sheikh (I kid you not, that's her real name))
  • There is no explaining the actions of middle aged, male City lawyers. I have seen and heard a lot, lot worse. But what an idiot. His firm - which is a US one - will be cursing him.

    I hadn't realised it's a US firm. That's even funnier. And having the name Carter-Silk is a splendid touch.

    Ho, ho ...

    "Our commitment to diversity informs every aspect of firm life, from recruiting and hiring, to training and mentoring, to firm management and leadership. We believe our clients and lawyers alike will benefit from a workforce that fully reflects the rich variety of race, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, and ethnicity in our communities ..."

    http://www.brownrudnick.com/our-firm/diversity

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Both. But fancy sending that to her.

    The funniest thing about it is that the lady works at the chambers of Michael Mansfield QC. You'd have thought that would flag up a bloody great Danger! Here be Guardianistas! sign.

    There is no explaining the actions of middle aged, male City lawyers. I have seen and heard a lot, lot worse. But what an idiot. His firm - which is a US one - will be cursing him.
    Way over the top if you ask me,just sounded a nice compliment,wouldn't have been a fuss if it was her saying it to him.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,529
    Cromwell said:

    David Herdson: Nick Palmer seems very polite, I've had dealings with labour politicians who were very spiteful, he seems a nice man. However he says:

    and I think voters like you are open-minded enough to *consider* Corbyn's agenda,

    Yep, I've considered Corbyn's agenda and find it lunacy. That is what I mean by out of touch, Corbyn, like the ghastly Russell Brand appeals to the young and the fantasists, for heavens sake most Labour MPs are in meltdown over Corbyn. If your team mates don't rate you there's no chance.

    Too true , the so called young Facebook users who are supporting Corbyn are voting for him on emotion using a similar criteria they use when voting on the X Factor ...I wonder if they even recognise the difference in gravitas between voting in politics and voting in entertainment ?
    very pompous , if you compare to the other 3 donkeys is it any wonder they are going for Corbyn, he at least sounds like a real person talking , not a cardboard cutout with a tape recorder installed. Rightly or wrongly he actually has a personal opinion that he voices.
  • Cromwell said:

    If a Corbynmania surge gives Khan a narrow victory over Jowell and then he loses to a Tory it will be a double disaster for Labour ...and yet it could happen ; I feel much more confident predicting a Corbyn first ballot win than predicting a Jowell victory

    Every electoral defeat over the next couple of years will only be good for Labour's long-term health. A Khan defeat in London would be curtains for Corbyn, I'd hazard. He might survive a little longer with a Jowell defeat.

    Assuming Corbyn wins, how do we bet:

    (a) Jowell v Goldsmith
    (b) Khan v Goldsmith

    a - too close to call, lean Jowell.

    b - Goldsmith landslide.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited September 2015
    isam said:

    The Michael White article was published a year and two days before British drones killed Reeyad Khan, and had the sign off

    'Will we still be talking about Isis in a year? I may be wrong, but I doubt it. Here's hoping.'

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/19/isis-islamic-state-threat-short-lived

    Michael White has been wrong in about 99% of any political forecasts he has made. he is the journalists equivalent of a loser.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,529

    An AUTOMATIC sports car.. The world is coming to an end. If it aint got proper gears with a proper gearstick it aint a sports car... well not as far as I am concerned.

    It is faster than the manual
  • Plato said:

    I've complained twice and got the We Were Right response.

    The only time I got a real one was when I was eagle-eyed enough to spot the One Show's producer in the closing credits - it had some appalling sneering at the Tories just before GE2010.

    I guessed the guy's email address and got a personal reply apologising for going too far/that it was meant to be *funny*. Kudos to him.

    JEO said:

    Plato said:

    A shorter version

    Pathetic BBC response to Panorama Stitch Up

    We have received a wide range of feedback about our coverage of this story...

    And we decided we were right.


    Kind Regards

    BBC Complaints

    That is the BBC response to every complaint I have ever sent them.

    Didn't it come out a while ago that one of the people that worked at the BBC complaints was a Labour voter who complained on social media that he was fed up of responding to Tories?
    Back in 2011 I made a complaint - which was more of an are-you-aware? - through the BBC system. Their reply was formatted in such a way you needed to be a knowledgeable computer user to decode it. To most users it would have appeared as a 7K empty file.

    The BBC's complaint system is not fit fur purpose.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    There is no explaining the actions of middle aged, male City lawyers. I have seen and heard a lot, lot worse. But what an idiot. His firm - which is a US one - will be cursing him.

    I hadn't realised it's a US firm. That's even funnier. And having the name Carter-Silk is a splendid touch.

    Ho, ho ...

    "Our commitment to diversity informs every aspect of firm life, from recruiting and hiring, to training and mentoring, to firm management and leadership. We believe our clients and lawyers alike will benefit from a workforce that fully reflects the rich variety of race, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, and ethnicity in our communities ..."

    http://www.brownrudnick.com/our-firm/diversity

    Lol,well you have a point there.
  • Both. But fancy sending that to her.

    The funniest thing about it is that the lady works at the chambers of Michael Mansfield QC. You'd have thought that would flag up a bloody great Danger! Here be Guardianistas! sign.

    There is no explaining the actions of middle aged, male City lawyers. I have seen and heard a lot, lot worse. But what an idiot. His firm - which is a US one - will be cursing him.
    Way over the top if you ask me,just sounded a nice compliment,wouldn't have been a fuss if it was her saying it to him.

    From what I read: it was silly of him to say, but she completely over-reacted - and then went and published it as well.

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,354

    Very interesting.. But tell me , how can the "we'll build nuclear power stations with public money" bit work when the state has little if any experience of designing nuclear power stations in the past 20 years...?

    And your section 2 on welfare does not cover the two largest problems: OAPs living longer with minimal incomes and the poor /unemployed/immigrants..

    Good question. I guess what I'm expressing is a desire to move away from automatically going for overarching very long-term build and operate deals, which look like PPI with knobs on, that successive governments seem to think are the only way to get things done. We will still need contractors and access to the relevant reactor technology (under license or by whatever means) as the backbone of what would be constructed. And if that is all so tied up that the EDF deal is the only current way forward, we do need to find a way out of that situation longer term - for instance looking at an experimental small-scale passive reactor in conjuction with whatever intellectual property owners will deal with us.

    My scope was radical new ideas for the centre-left and so immigration didn't feature. I see it as unsustainable to maintain net immigration in the quarter of million region p.a. for years to come, so am onboard with any humane government policy designed to trend this downwards. But there are many types of immigration and 100s of levers that could be brought to bear that I see no alternative to years of functionary hard work to solve this. Not radical. The only radicalism I would like to see is deep honesty - stop overselling every minor tweak as getting things under control on rolling news (overselling of every little thing imho is the primary root of the current political disengagement) and, yes, be clear that our obligations we do have to the EU and the UN mean that we cannot directly shut the gates on EU free movement (unless we leave) or on processing asylum claims for whoever reaches the UK.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited September 2015
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good piece. DavidL is the sort of open-minded Tory voter who I can really imagine voting Labour if we got a coherent package on these lines together, and he's not alone.

    I'm sure I won't be the only one wondering why, in that case, you are supporting a leadership candidate who will make DavidL and all other sensible people run a million miles away from Labour.
    That was exactly my thought Richard!

    But thanks Nick, all the same.
    Expulsion from our new Tory party not obsessed with EU, Gays etc is not on the agenda, we're too chilled about that sort of thing... unless you go kipper.
    Phew, that's a relief.

    Actually a fiscally dry, socially liberal Tory party not obsessed with the EU, gays etc (to give it its full title) could do a lot worse than seek to make progress on a number of items on that agenda and leave Labour wailing away in some alternative world with remarkably few voters (in exactly the way that Blair did to the Tories).
    We are a broad church and will consider refugees from new labour too if they aren't on our black-list (eg Dromey, Woolas, that double barrelled woman MP who talks worse than Prezza)

    Have you read the New Statesmen piece on Osborne? I think he wants to join us too.
  • Cromwell said:

    If a Corbynmania surge gives Khan a narrow victory over Jowell and then he loses to a Tory it will be a double disaster for Labour ...and yet it could happen ; I feel much more confident predicting a Corbyn first ballot win than predicting a Jowell victory

    Every electoral defeat over the next couple of years will only be good for Labour's long-term health. A Khan defeat in London would be curtains for Corbyn, I'd hazard. He might survive a little longer with a Jowell defeat.

    Assuming Corbyn wins, how do we bet:

    (a) Jowell v Goldsmith
    (b) Khan v Goldsmith

    a - too close to call, lean Jowell.

    b - Goldsmith landslide.

    Presumably on the basis that Khan also hangs up his shirts in an ossuary?
  • Mr. Hopkins, quite agree.

    Reminds me of the teenage lad who foolishly sent a nude photo of himself to a schoolgirl, and she then posted it publicly [he'd used an app to auto-delete the photo but she saved it first]. All the opprobrium seemed to be heaped upon the lad (who undoubtedly deserves some blame, but the split was entirely unfair).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,553

    There is no explaining the actions of middle aged, male City lawyers. I have seen and heard a lot, lot worse. But what an idiot. His firm - which is a US one - will be cursing him.

    I hadn't realised it's a US firm. That's even funnier. And having the name Carter-Silk is a splendid touch.
    The only way it could have been funnier if he had sent it to Miss Anal Sheikh (I kid you not, that's her real name))
    I think Anal Sheikh got struck off.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,553

    Both. But fancy sending that to her.

    The funniest thing about it is that the lady works at the chambers of Michael Mansfield QC. You'd have thought that would flag up a bloody great Danger! Here be Guardianistas! sign.

    There is no explaining the actions of middle aged, male City lawyers. I have seen and heard a lot, lot worse. But what an idiot. His firm - which is a US one - will be cursing him.
    Way over the top if you ask me,just sounded a nice compliment,wouldn't have been a fuss if it was her saying it to him.

    From what I read: it was silly of him to say, but she completely over-reacted - and then went and published it as well.

    One should assume that any woman who works in Michael Mansfield's chambers will be humourless, fanatical, self-righteous, and intolerant.
  • Cromwell said:

    If a Corbynmania surge gives Khan a narrow victory over Jowell and then he loses to a Tory it will be a double disaster for Labour ...and yet it could happen ; I feel much more confident predicting a Corbyn first ballot win than predicting a Jowell victory

    Every electoral defeat over the next couple of years will only be good for Labour's long-term health. A Khan defeat in London would be curtains for Corbyn, I'd hazard. He might survive a little longer with a Jowell defeat.

    Assuming Corbyn wins, how do we bet:

    (a) Jowell v Goldsmith
    (b) Khan v Goldsmith

    a - too close to call, lean Jowell.

    b - Goldsmith landslide.

    Presumably on the basis that Khan also hangs up his shirts in an ossuary?

    The quota thing will destroy him. And he's not that engaging anyway.

  • Mr. Hopkins, quite agree.

    Reminds me of the teenage lad who foolishly sent a nude photo of himself to a schoolgirl, and she then posted it publicly [he'd used an app to auto-delete the photo but she saved it first]. All the opprobrium seemed to be heaped upon the lad (who undoubtedly deserves some blame, but the split was entirely unfair).

    Said boy now has the juvenile equivalent of a criminal record.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Politicalintel: Liz Kendall has conceded defeat in the Labour leadership election http://bit.ly/1Q3qybT #Labourleader
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,970

    Both. But fancy sending that to her.

    The funniest thing about it is that the lady works at the chambers of Michael Mansfield QC. You'd have thought that would flag up a bloody great Danger! Here be Guardianistas! sign.

    There is no explaining the actions of middle aged, male City lawyers. I have seen and heard a lot, lot worse. But what an idiot. His firm - which is a US one - will be cursing him.
    Way over the top if you ask me,just sounded a nice compliment,wouldn't have been a fuss if it was her saying it to him.

    From what I read: it was silly of him to say, but she completely over-reacted - and then went and published it as well.

    This one seems to me that a human being paying another human being a compliment on their "Linkedin" picture is perfectly acceptable.

    His mistake was to say "this is politically incorrect but..".

    It isn't politically incorrect, and it isn't a problem, unless he has undermined her professional standing in the professional relationship, and that is not the case.

    Imaginary storm in a manufactured teacup, but hardly a surprise after the fabricated outrage about Tim Hunt.

  • malcolmg said:

    Cromwell said:

    David Herdson: Nick Palmer seems very polite, I've had dealings with labour politicians who were very spiteful, he seems a nice man. However he says:

    and I think voters like you are open-minded enough to *consider* Corbyn's agenda,

    Yep, I've considered Corbyn's agenda and find it lunacy. That is what I mean by out of touch, Corbyn, like the ghastly Russell Brand appeals to the young and the fantasists, for heavens sake most Labour MPs are in meltdown over Corbyn. If your team mates don't rate you there's no chance.

    Too true , the so called young Facebook users who are supporting Corbyn are voting for him on emotion using a similar criteria they use when voting on the X Factor ...I wonder if they even recognise the difference in gravitas between voting in politics and voting in entertainment ?
    very pompous , if you compare to the other 3 donkeys is it any wonder they are going for Corbyn, he at least sounds like a real person talking , not a cardboard cutout with a tape recorder installed. Rightly or wrongly he actually has a personal opinion that he voices.
    You are correct about the other 3 but do you really think these youngsters have watched any debates? They've heard vague references to equality, austerity and taxing bankers, do you really think they have even a basic understanding of "people's QE"?

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,572

    I like reading Nick Palmer on here, he seems very fair minded. But he is the epitome of a modern labour politician, utterly and completely out of touch.

    I have always found Nick to be a very decent bloke in his personal dealings, often under all kinds of abuse. I'm not sure I'd describe him as out-of-touch, which implies he's not aware of public opinion; I get the strong impression that he is. I think it's more that he has strong, if moderately stated, views and is in politics to promote and pursue them whether or not they're in line with public opinion - which is fair enough. As Benn would have said, that's a signpost for you.

    That said, Nick is also tribally Labour (see his stats for voting against the whip, for example), which also implies a certainly flexibility in compromising with his party, if not with the public.
    That's a very fair summary - thank you. And thanks to Blackburn and DavidL too!
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    shadsy said:

    JEO said:

    This is the best graphic yet on the catastrophe that has engulfed the Labour party.
    It's a terrible graphic. You can't translate odds to vote shares. Only a mathematics illiterate would do that.
    Except that's not what we did. We've got four separate under/over markets on the four candidates' vote shares.
    Ah, my apologies. The comment on the Tweet was ambiguous and I got the wrong end of the stick. Sorry about that.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    edited September 2015
    Dr. Prasannan, quite.

    Mr. W, quite so, though I think lots of people are getting pissed off with the continual witch-hunting (and the way it seems to apply to white men, but someone who isn't tweeting #killallwhitemen can keep her job as a diversity officer).

    Occasionally I toy with the idea of sending free copies of Sir Edric's Temple to hardline feminists, just to see if they get outraged and give me some free publicity.

    Edited extra bit: added 'hardline'. Lots of feminists I agree with, but there is a lunatic fringe.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/vexatious-ex-solicitor-restrained-after-years-of-court-claims/5049846.fullarticleThe High Court has extended a civil restraint order against a former solicitor and her 88-year-old mother after years of failed claims against other lawyers.

    Ruling in Sheikh v Beaumont, Honourable Mrs Justice Patterson said the she had ‘no doubt’ that renewing two restraint orders against Anal Sheikh and her mother Rabia was ‘necessary and proportionate’.
    Sean_F said:

    There is no explaining the actions of middle aged, male City lawyers. I have seen and heard a lot, lot worse. But what an idiot. His firm - which is a US one - will be cursing him.

    I hadn't realised it's a US firm. That's even funnier. And having the name Carter-Silk is a splendid touch.
    The only way it could have been funnier if he had sent it to Miss Anal Sheikh (I kid you not, that's her real name))
    I think Anal Sheikh got struck off.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @WikiGuido: Corbyn says he has met with ISIS sympathisers and suggests they have legitimate grievances: http://t.co/I5HD7P9LG4
  • New Thread New Thread

  • MattW said:

    Both. But fancy sending that to her.

    The funniest thing about it is that the lady works at the chambers of Michael Mansfield QC. You'd have thought that would flag up a bloody great Danger! Here be Guardianistas! sign.

    There is no explaining the actions of middle aged, male City lawyers. I have seen and heard a lot, lot worse. But what an idiot. His firm - which is a US one - will be cursing him.
    Way over the top if you ask me,just sounded a nice compliment,wouldn't have been a fuss if it was her saying it to him.

    From what I read: it was silly of him to say, but she completely over-reacted - and then went and published it as well.

    This one seems to me that a human being paying another human being a compliment on their "Linkedin" picture is perfectly acceptable.

    His mistake was to say "this is politically incorrect but..".

    It isn't politically incorrect, and it isn't a problem, unless he has undermined her professional standing in the professional relationship, and that is not the case.

    Imaginary storm in a manufactured teacup, but hardly a surprise after the fabricated outrage about Tim Hunt.


    Charlotte, delighted to connect. I appreciate that this is probably horrendously politically incorrect but that is a stunning picture !!!
    You definitely win the prize for the best Linked in picture I have ever seen.
    Always interest [sic] to understant [sic] people’s skills and how we might work together.

    Or:

    You are gorgeous, let's get together for a chat to see what kind of work I might be able to put your way.

    Silly man. But harmless.


  • Scott_P said:

    @Politicalintel: Liz Kendall has conceded defeat in the Labour leadership election http://bit.ly/1Q3qybT #Labourleader

    "She vowed to continue to serve but ruled out a role as shadow minister in a Corbyn-led party because she does not agree with some of his key ideas."

    Don't think Corbyn would have offered her a position but that's of little comfort. - I also doubt we'll hear anything more of Kendall for another five years.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,970

    Cromwell said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)


    Still, a very long way to go as it is nationally - we are just over four months into a sixty month political cycle - the water has barely begun to think about flowing under the bridge which hasn't been built yet. Two years from now and we won't be halfway through the parliament yet everyone on here seems so certain of everything.

    "Events, dear boy, events" was, I believe, the response of a former Prime Minister when asked what worried him most.

    Indeed. It's not inconceivable that the UK will no longer exist in its current form and we'll be outside the EU by 2020.

    Unlikely? Yes, but not as unlikely as I'd have said it would be for Labour to elect Corbyn less than 3 months ago.
    The general population have far more practical common sense than ideological Labour Party voters ....Labour are dying a natural death having outlived their usefulness and their inability to change with the times ; Corbynism is just an admission of defeat , just an acknowledgement that they will no longer try and compete ! the LP are a sinking ship of fools who are showing the Red Flag of ''principle '' before they finally go under

    And yet it is the Labour Party whose membership has increased hugely and the Conservatives who rely on large donations to keep the show on the road.
    Tends to happen when you keep losing and have leadership contests.
    No party has doubled its membership the way Labour just has. This is an unprecedented event. It might well be the start of a process that destroys Labour as a political contender. Or it might be the exact opposite. I don't know, and I don't believe anyone on here who thinks they do. But the one thing I am sure of is we won't be seeing a rerun of the eighties. The Corbyn voters of 2015 are not the same people as the Bennites of old even if Corbyn himself is. They might well mess things up as badly - but they will do it in a unique way. But it is equally possible that they will learn as they go along how to create a 21st Century mass membership party.
    I think that's wrong.

    The SNP and the Scottish Greens both did it in the Scottish Referendum process. The SNP almost quadrupled in about a month.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/alan/snp-membership-now-at-100000-members_b_5935416.html

    I think the Welsh and English Greens may have done something similar in a matter of months (haven't checked).

    UKIP went up by 50% in one year in 2013.

    And the Libdems are up by about 40% since the Election in May.



  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    MattW said:

    Cromwell said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)



    Indeed. It's not inconceivable that the UK will no longer exist in its current form and we'll be outside the EU by 2020.

    Unlikely? Yes, but not as unlikely as I'd have said it would be for Labour to elect Corbyn less than 3 months ago.
    The general population have far more practical common sense than ideological Labour Party voters ....Labour are dying a natural death having outlived their usefulness and their inability to change with the times ; Corbynism is just an admission of defeat , just an acknowledgement that they will no longer try and compete ! the LP are a sinking ship of fools who are showing the Red Flag of ''principle '' before they finally go under

    And yet it is the Labour Party whose membership has increased hugely and the Conservatives who rely on large donations to keep the show on the road.
    Tends to happen when you keep losing and have leadership contests.
    No party has doubled its membership the way Labour just has. This is an unprecedented event. It might well be the start of a process that destroys Labour as a political contender. Or it might be the exact opposite. I don't know, and I don't believe anyone on here who thinks they do. But the one thing I am sure of is we won't be seeing a rerun of the eighties. The Corbyn voters of 2015 are not the same people as the Bennites of old even if Corbyn himself is. They might well mess things up as badly - but they will do it in a unique way. But it is equally possible that they will learn as they go along how to create a 21st Century mass membership party.
    I think that's wrong.

    The SNP and the Scottish Greens both did it in the Scottish Referendum process. The SNP almost quadrupled in about a month.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/alan/snp-membership-now-at-100000-members_b_5935416.html

    I think the Welsh and English Greens may have done something similar in a matter of months (haven't checked).

    UKIP went up by 50% in one year in 2013.

    And the Libdems are up by about 40% since the Election in May.



    I stand corrected. But the figures you quote make the point I was making. The SNP surge and the UKIP insurgency were both preceded by large membership jumps. It looks very much like a leading indicator. (I think the phrase "except the Lib Dems" needs to be understood from now on.)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,529

    malcolmg said:

    Cromwell said:

    David Herdson: Nick Palmer seems very polite, I've had dealings with labour politicians who were very spiteful, he seems a nice man. However he says:

    and I think voters like you are open-minded enough to *consider* Corbyn's agenda,

    Yep, I've considered Corbyn's agenda and find it lunacy. That is what I mean by out of touch, Corbyn, like the ghastly Russell Brand appeals to the young and the fantasists, for heavens sake most Labour MPs are in meltdown over Corbyn. If your team mates don't rate you there's no chance.

    Too true , the so called young Facebook users who are supporting Corbyn are voting for him on emotion using a similar criteria they use when voting on the X Factor ...I wonder if they even recognise the difference in gravitas between voting in politics and voting in entertainment ?
    very pompous , if you compare to the other 3 donkeys is it any wonder they are going for Corbyn, he at least sounds like a real person talking , not a cardboard cutout with a tape recorder installed. Rightly or wrongly he actually has a personal opinion that he voices.
    You are correct about the other 3 but do you really think these youngsters have watched any debates? They've heard vague references to equality, austerity and taxing bankers, do you really think they have even a basic understanding of "people's QE"?

    Blackburn, majority of the public have no clue on politics.
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