MG Where are you putting the 1000 plus coming your way..How big is Salmonds place..or places.
Richard, Feck knows , Sturgeon is taking some and Willie Rennie. By the time we are finished they will be housing them all personally no doubt. I do know I will be paying for it though whether I want to or not. These politicians are always generous with other people's hard earned cash.
less comforting for those who are having their ancestral lands stolen by settlers of MikeK's ilk.
"The Invasion of the Bald, Eighty-Year-Old IT Analysts"?
Ah yes - those ancestral lands where the Muslims are the Johnny-come-latelys, those lands having been occupied by Christians before them, Jews before them, Romans and countless other peoples before them. If anyone was doing the stealing it was the agressors in the 7th century.
Of course arguments about who got there first are silly. But since it is an argument which is regularly deployed by the Islamists - "these are Muslim lands" - it would be as well to get the historical record accurate.
Of course, it is reasonable to criticise current and recent Jewish settlement to Palestine, given the Palestinians that already live there don't/didn't get a say in it.
Of course it is. The settlements are designed to create facts on the ground and will make any eventual peace deal that much more difficult. They should have been frozen and not expanded. Israeli policy re the settlements and the Occupied Territories is not defensible. They are getting into a position where their desire for a Jewish state conflicts with the desire for a democratic state since you cannot have a democratic state occupying land with loads of people on it with no vote and no democratic rights.
And occupation is bad - on all sorts of levels - for the occupiers as much as the occupied. It corrupts a country.
I really wish we were not starting from here. But have no solution I'm afraid.
James Cameron, the journalist, did a very interesting film after the end of the Six-Day War, which he covered. He said that - having conquered those lands - it would have been so much better if Israel had generously offered the land back to the Palestinians so that a a homeland could have been created. He hoped that a generous offer then might have stopped the descent into bitterness and hatred. Perhaps naive. And of course we will never know what might have been. But if you get a chance to see it, it's a moving and thoughful film.
Glad to hear that the PM intends to welcome 20,000 refugees here.
One thing I think think this crisis has done is turb the whole of PB against the mainstream media - until today, the only news-outlets that were consistently criticised on PB were the BBC and The Guardian. Now even the Mail and Sky News are in the firing line. And while everyone in Germany may not support Merkel's policy, recent polling by ARD suggests that a majority do.
A majority may support it but the extremists who don't set fire to two migrant buildings in recent days.
Are you talking about the incident in Heidnau? That's received a lot of condemnation within Germany. Even Bild, Germany's main red-top (and I believe it's best-selling newspaper) called it 'The Nazi Shame of Heidnau'. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34038557
Listening to Corbyn talk, although I think the talk of him being entirely different from other politicians (he does us cliche and meaningless jargon as much as any), there is something in his blandness of tone. Galloway is very entertaining, but his passion makes it so easy to get worked up about things he says, but Corbyn is so softly spoken most of the time, so dull, it is mentally hard to notice if he says something that is less than reasonable.
When I saw that T-shirt posted up-thread, it went through my mind that Mr Corbyn is much more of a 'turning wine into water' sort of chap.
Following Matt's cartoon, isn't he now 'white v̶a̶n̶ flag man'?
I was also a bit shocked to see that New Zealand and Australia have now offered to take in some refugees as well - especially in the latter's case.
It's a "Win-Win" for Australia.
Australians are a big-hearted folk (it must be all those people of Irish descent ) who would naturally want to help if they can.
As a bonus, they can show that their often criticised tough immigration policies have wiggle room for emergencies. (Of course Abbott & Co would probably say that they have this wiggle room because of their policies.)
I think that there is less racism on the immigration issue than there is a concern over the whole thing being in control, TBH,
It's not Palestinians who are unpopular, Roger. It's terrorists. The two are not the same, despite the best efforts of the terrorists to claim that they are the only voice of "their" people.
@Plato Are ComRes actually saying that most people want us to take in *less* refugees than we've previously done? How strange. I could see the public being reluctance to entertain significant increases in the amount of refugees we take in, but to reduce it? Then again, maybe I've misinterpreted that tweet.
@Disraeli I remember watching Last Week with John Oliver where they talked about Tony Abbott. I had to laugh that alongside mentioning his tough stance on immigration, they said he was born in London
Watching some of the debate in HoC and am distinctly unimpressed by Liddington the FO europe minister. Hopefully he will lose the vote, as his woeful performance deserves.
"Two British men killed by RAF drone strike in Syria last month" BBC today
"..there lies the certainty of violence on a scale which can only adequately be described as civil war" Enoch Powell 1981
Our government are now deliberately killing our own citizens. Everyone was warned this would happen a long, long time ago
Not quite sure we're at civil war levels or are ever likely so to be.
The British nation has survived waves of immigration over the centuries and I don't doubt we'll do so again in a measured and reasoned fashion as in days gone by. It's our way.
The phrase was "violence on a scale which can only adequately be described as civil war"
I'd say the British Govt killing its own citizens via drone strikes fits that description adequately
The immigration over the centuries is not comparable with that of the last 30-40 years, that's just a line trotted out by the liberal elite.
Poppycock.
The death of two British ISIS terrorists does not constitute civil war.
The "liberal elite" might just be correct. It has been known.
British people are plotting to kill British people en masse as a consequence of mass immigration
Now the government are killing its own people to nip it in the bud
So I cant say that I agree with the liberal elite that mass immigration was a success, especially not when people at the time were warning that precisely what is happening now, would happen if it were allowed to continue
Still, the unaffected would rather people die that admit they got it wrong.
Not true. Some British criminals are being mercenaries overseas because they're messed up crazies. There always have been and always will be a small number of crazies. There have been fewer Britons killed by terrorists this decade than in any decade of my lifetime.
Since the recent influx of immigrants into my area.. most swans and river bird life have disappeared and the rivers are strangely devoid of the usual massive shoals of trout ..no idea why..but the local cops keep finding lots of feathers and burnt out fires along the more remote parts of the river banks..just saying..
Toward the end can definitely see Cameron getting irritated, giving shorter and shorter answers, and the occasional dark look in response at implicit accusations taking in 20000 is essentially nothing.
@Disraeli I remember watching Last Week with John Oliver where they talked about Tony Abbott. I had to laugh that alongside mentioning his tough stance on immigration, they said he was born in London
I'm a big fan of LastWeekTonight (pieces on elected judges, afghan translators, private prisons, civil forfeiture and fining people for minor offences were just a few of the very compelling pieces), but I can't help but notice it can get pretty lazy in relation to some of its shorter pieces making arguments, which I hope is not the case with the longer ones. One case of note was on Lord Sewell, which was introduced as a funny story on this coked up Lord, and then with nothing whatsoever to back it up, transitioned to say how he shows the Lords should be abolished - a perfectly acceptable view to hold and transmit to the audience, but it was clearly an example of using a funny incident as an excuse to make a point about something they support without making the effort to then back that argument up. 'This Lord did coke, let's laugh, therefore the Lords must be abolished', what?. There are much better ways to make that argument
If you take te trouble to watch it you might not use the word 'terrorism' in such a black and white way. It fills in a lot of blanks.
It's also the view of very many more Jews than popular conception would have it. The likes of MikeK are by no means a true reflection of modern Jewish opinion.
@Disraeli I remember watching Last Week with John Oliver where they talked about Tony Abbott. I had to laugh that alongside mentioning his tough stance on immigration, they said he was born in London
My unfashionable view of immigration is that it is like some medicines (e.g. Digitalis). If you can get the dosage right then it is tremendously beneficial to the patient.
Too little, and you don't get much benefit. Too much, and you do more harm than good with side-effects.
I shall now run off and go out for the evening as the incoming fire from all sides explodes around me.
Getting a bit sick and tired to the attempted emotional appeals in the debate about the government needing to take account ofthe scale of the problem. Millions upon millions are displaced. 100000 taken in tomorrow would certainly be doing more, but it would also not recognise the scale of the problem, that argument is bogus unless everyone is to be taken in.
@Disraeli I remember watching Last Week with John Oliver where they talked about Tony Abbott. I had to laugh that alongside mentioning his tough stance on immigration, they said he was born in London
My unfashionable view of immigration is that it is like some medicines (e.g. Digitalis). If you can get the dosage right then it is tremendously beneficial to the patient.
Too little, and you don't get much benefit. Too much, and you do more harm than good with side-effects.
I shall now run off and go out for the evening as the incoming fire from all sides explodes around me.
That seems to me to be self-evidently correct and sensible.
The challenging part is defining where the ideal dosage is.
Just got to the part where Tom Brake, LD MP spoke. I've never seen him before in my life.
He was one of the Lib Dem whips in the last Parliament, so he was not called on to speak much in the Commons. I think he is now the Lib Dem spokesman on Foreign Affairs.
Getting a bit sick and tired to the attempted emotional appeals in the debate about the government needing to take account ofthe scale of the problem. Millions upon millions are displaced. 100000 taken in tomorrow would certainly be doing more, but it would also not recognise the scale of the problem, that argument is bogus unless everyone is to be taken in.
I think we should take zero refugees..We have no idea what they think of the UK and I do not want to take the chance of letting in another group of Islamic nutters who only mean to harm us.Keep them in the camps.
Comments
Interesting perspective from a distinguished Jewish Israeli. I know Palestinians aren't popular on here but an interesting perspective nonetheless
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ
And occupation is bad - on all sorts of levels - for the occupiers as much as the occupied. It corrupts a country.
I really wish we were not starting from here. But have no solution I'm afraid.
James Cameron, the journalist, did a very interesting film after the end of the Six-Day War, which he covered. He said that - having conquered those lands - it would have been so much better if Israel had generously offered the land back to the Palestinians so that a a homeland could have been created. He hoped that a generous offer then might have stopped the descent into bitterness and hatred. Perhaps naive. And of course we will never know what might have been. But if you get a chance to see it, it's a moving and thoughful film.
Australians are a big-hearted folk (it must be all those people of Irish descent
As a bonus, they can show that their often criticised tough immigration policies have wiggle room for emergencies. (Of course Abbott & Co would probably say that they have this wiggle room because of their policies.)
I think that there is less racism on the immigration issue than there is a concern over the whole thing being in control, TBH,
@Disraeli I remember watching Last Week with John Oliver where they talked about Tony Abbott. I had to laugh that alongside mentioning his tough stance on immigration, they said he was born in London
If you take te trouble to watch it you might not use the word 'terrorism' in such a black and white way. It fills in a lot of blanks.
It's also the view of very many more Jews than popular conception would have it. The likes of MikeK are by no means a true reflection of modern Jewish opinion.
My unfashionable view of immigration is that it is like some medicines (e.g. Digitalis).
If you can get the dosage right then it is tremendously beneficial to the patient.
Too little, and you don't get much benefit.
Too much, and you do more harm than good with side-effects.
I shall now run off and go out for the evening as the incoming fire from all sides explodes around me.
The challenging part is defining where the ideal dosage is.
'MG Where are you putting the 1000 plus coming your way..How big is Salmonds place..or places.'
I would have thought Liverpool would be one of the obvious places,thousands of empty houses,one of the least diverse cities in the UK & Tim.
New Thread New Thread
Will be interesting.
The SWP will of course deny that.