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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Understanding the Cooper surge

As with other bookies Yvette Cooper's chances on Betfair have improved in the last 36 hours, she's now 2nd favourite pic.twitter.com/C8kIQwkOGD

Read the full story here

MP_SE

First.

Danny565

From the outside Andy Burnham has run the worst leadership campaign since Michael Portillo’s 2001 leadership bid

Burnham's not even run the worst campaign in this contest (Liz says hi).

MikeK

http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/europe-sells-hangmans-rope-again-james.html

Europe sells the hangman's rope - again - James Lewis

by James Lewis

Today Europe has suicidally imported more than 50 million Muslims -- just as Obama wants us to do here. With America failing to provide international leadership, Europe has simply collapsed and surrendered -- hoping the crocodile will eat it last.

For Bed-time reading.

kle4

The_Apocalypse said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Embarked clearly means got on the boat. All the evidence is that they are not taking boats from Syria to Greece but are embarking in Turkey. Or in the case of those from North Africa in Libya. Unless you think they sailed across the desert from Gambia on boats?

But nonetheless, as I said to @kle4 the jist of my point remains: what happens to these people once they get back to Turkey? Do they get put in camps, or then back into Syria? Neither of which solves the humanitarian problem.

Those on the Right are really rattled today, and in fact just rattled in general when anyone dares to criticise their POV and how they see the world.

a) I'm not on the Right (economically perhaps), and b) I've said I'm happy to accept certain numbers of refugees, and c) it has been commented several times that while the camps don't solve the humanitarian crisis they are part of a wider plan which does at least attempt to, and infact neither does taking in the refugees (unless all the millions upon millions are taken, which no one is suggesting), it solves the personal crises of those taken in but does not solve the problem.

Feel free to disagree with that stance, but just as there are those most definitely on the right (I cannot think I am given all the times I defended Ed M as going to be ok as PM) who's views dofit yours perfectly on this issue, just because there are those on the right getting rattled who's views do not, does not mean those views are without merit automatically, nor the thing they oppose can escape criticism if it is presented as something it is not, that is, a solution to the causes of the humanitarian crisis (and without solving the cause, the crisis cannot be solved).

TheScreamingEagles

Danny565 said:

From the outside Andy Burnham has run the worst leadership campaign since Michael Portillo’s 2001 leadership bid

Burnham's not even run the worst campaign in this contest (Liz says hi).

I've just edited my thread header

From the outside Andy Burnham has run the worst leadership campaign a favourite has run since Michael Portillo’s 2001 leadership bid

Jonathan

Wahey! Voted YC today.

kle4

Burnham's campaign has been crap. Cooper's deficiencies have been shown up, but she hasn't made a fool of herself to the same degree either.

HYUFD

Yet Burnham still ran Corbyn significantly closer than Cooper in the final round with yougov so a Cooper Corbyn final would almost certainly see Corbyn triumph as more of Burnham's backers will put Corbyn in their top 3 than Cooper's voters. It should also be stated Twitter has reported some Corbyn voters moving to Burnham at the last minute which could offset any slight increase in Kendall voters preferencing Cooper

TheScreamingEagles

Godamnit, I should have headlined this piece "Understanding the mini Cooper surge"

kle4

Danny565 said:

From the outside Andy Burnham has run the worst leadership campaign since Michael Portillo’s 2001 leadership bid

Burnham's not even run the worst campaign in this contest (Liz says hi).

Her entire pitch and tone was strategically a grave error from which she could not recover, but I think tactically Burnham's has been worse given his better starting position and the lack of a coherent narrative, coupled with easily mocked pronouncements at every turn.

Jonathan

TheScreamingEagles said:

Godamnit, I should have headlined this piece "Understanding the mini Cooper surge"

or maybe Cooper's barrel roll.

Danny565

Although I agree Yvette has been impressive the last couple of weeks, I can't help but feel it's precisely because she thinks the contest is a lost cause, so the pressure's off and she feels able to show a bit of passion and take a strong stance on things.

If she actually became leader, I fear she would slip back into her standard super-cautious mode.

kle4

TheScreamingEagles said:

Godamnit, I should have headlined this piece "Understanding the mini Cooper surge"

I'm sure an opportunity for a title as awesome as that will crop up again during your guest editor stint. Best not miss out a second time!

The_Apocalypse

kle4 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Embarked clearly means got on the boat. All the evidence is that they are not taking boats from Syria to Greece but are embarking in Turkey. Or in the case of those from North Africa in Libya. Unless you think they sailed across the desert from Gambia on boats?

But nonetheless, as I said to @kle4 the jist of my point remains: what happens to these people once they get back to Turkey? Do they get put in camps, or then back into Syria? Neither of which solves the humanitarian problem.

Those on the Right are really rattled today, and in fact just rattled in general when anyone dares to criticise their POV and how they see the world.

a) I'm not on the Right (economically perhaps), and b) I've said I'm happy to accept certain numbers of refugees, and c) it has been commented several times that while the camps don't solve the humanitarian crisis they are part of a wider plan which does at least attempt to, and infact neither does taking in the refugees (unless all the millions upon millions are taken, which no one is suggesting), it solves the personal crises of those taken in but does not solve the problem.

Feel free to disagree with that stance, but just as there are those most definitely on the right (I cannot think I am given all the times I defended Ed M as going to be ok as PM) who's views dofit yours perfectly on this issue, just because there are those on the right getting rattled who's views do not, does not mean those views are without merit automatically, nor the thing they oppose can escape criticism if it is presented as something it is not, that is, a solution to the causes of the humanitarian crisis (and without solving the cause, the crisis cannot be solved).

As I said in the previous thread, I'm not talking about you, but rather those that are actively angry at me, and my posts. You are not, and we've managed to debate in a civil, friendly way (thankfully). In the last thread in your previous post to me, I said that I thought you probably have made the most reasoned assessment on the crisis.

another_richard

"From the outside Andy Burnham has run the worst leadership campaign a favourite has run since Michael Portillo’s 2001 leadership bid where Portillo managed to finish third in what was seen as a two horse race. You can see why Andy Burnham finished fourth in the 2010 leadership election narrowly ahead of Dianne Abbott, he’s not very good at this."

Burnham is the spirit of extreme mediocrity in human form.

Kendall was the candidate for those who wanted a new Blair but without Blair's talent and charisma.

Consequently I have small bets on both Cooper and Spart.

I'm hopeful BigJohn and the boys wont let me down.

richardDodd

For what it is worth.. and it is probably worth nothing at all... I think there will be a civil war in the UK within the next two decades..it will be a religious war.

TheScreamingEagles

HYUFD said:

Yet Burnham still ran Corbyn significantly closer than Cooper in the final round with yougov so a Cooper Corbyn final would almost certainly see Corbyn triumph as more of Burnham's backers will put Corbyn in their top 3 than Cooper's voters. It should also be stated Twitter has reported some Corbyn voters moving to Burnham at the last minute which could offset any slight increase in Kendall voters preferencing Cooper

Bless, you're

i) Using a month old poll, things have moved on such as his woman leader comments

ii) Twitter, if twitter was accurate barometer, we wouldn't be having a Labour leadership election because Ed Miliband would be Prime Minister right now

The_Apocalypse

Although Kendall's run a bad campaign, she's was never a big favourite for the role - only a dark horse very early on. Meanwhile Burnham has now run two leadership campaigns, this one in which he was the big favourite and has been active in frontline politics for years. That someone of his exprience has run such a flop leadership campaign, means his rubbish campaign trumps Kendall's as the most terrible leadership campaign in recent times.

AndyJS

The_Apocalypse said:

kle4 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Embarked clearly means got on the boat. All the evidence is that they are not taking boats from Syria to Greece but are embarking in Turkey. Or in the case of those from North Africa in Libya. Unless you think they sailed across the desert from Gambia on boats?

But nonetheless, as I said to @kle4 the jist of my point remains: what happens to these people once they get back to Turkey? Do they get put in camps, or then back into Syria? Neither of which solves the humanitarian problem.

Those on the Right are really rattled today, and in fact just rattled in general when anyone dares to criticise their POV and how they see the world.

a) I'm not on the Right (economically perhaps), and b) I've said I'm happy to accept certain numbers of refugees, and c) it has been commented several times that while the camps don't solve the humanitarian crisis they are part of a wider plan which does at least attempt to, and infact neither does taking in the refugees (unless all the millions upon millions are taken, which no one is suggesting), it solves the personal crises of those taken in but does not solve the problem.

Feel free to disagree with that stance, but just as there are those most definitely on the right (I cannot think I am given all the times I defended Ed M as going to be ok as PM) who's views dofit yours perfectly on this issue, just because there are those on the right getting rattled who's views do not, does not mean those views are without merit automatically, nor the thing they oppose can escape criticism if it is presented as something it is not, that is, a solution to the causes of the humanitarian crisis (and without solving the cause, the crisis cannot be solved).

As I said in the previous thread, I'm not talking about you, but rather those that are actively angry at me, and my posts. You are not, and we've managed to debate in a civil, friendly way (thankfully). In the last thread in your previous post to me, I said that I thought you probably have made the most reasoned assessment on the crisis.

I didn't notice anyone getting angry apart from the "snide comment" discussion. It was very civilised otherwise.

kle4

The_Apocalypse said:

kle4 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Embarked clearly means got on the boat. All the evidence is that they are not taking boats from Syria to Greece but are embarking in Turkey. Or in the case of those from North Africa in Libya. Unless you think they sailed across the desert from Gambia on boats?

But nonetheless, as I said to @kle4 the jist of my point remains: what happens to these people once they get back to Turkey? Do they get put in camps, or then back into Syria? Neither of which solves the humanitarian problem.

Those on the Right are really rattled today, and in fact just rattled in general when anyone dares to criticise their POV and how they see the world.

a) I'm not on the Right (economically perhaps), and b) I've said I'm happy to accept certain numbers of refugees, and c) it has been commented several times that while the camps don't solve the humanitarian crisis they are part of a wider plan which does at least attempt to, and infact neither does taking in the refugees (unless all the millions upon millions are taken, which no one is suggesting), it solves the personal crises of those taken in but does not solve the problem.

Feel free to disagree with that stance, but just as there are those most definitely on the right (I cannot think I am given all the times I defended Ed M as going to be ok as PM) who's views dofit yours perfectly on this issue, just because there are those on the right getting rattled who's views do not, does not mean those views are without merit automatically, nor the thing they oppose can escape criticism if it is presented as something it is not, that is, a solution to the causes of the humanitarian crisis (and without solving the cause, the crisis cannot be solved).

As I said in the previous thread, I'm not talking about you, but rather those that are actively angry at me, and my posts. You are not, and we've managed to debate in a civil, friendly way (thankfully). In the last thread in your previous post to me, I said that I thought you probably have made the most reasoned assessment on the crisis.

Then I apologise for being a little touchy -I'll grant my own view on this matter seems to accord more closely with some who (certainly in the morning thread from what I saw in passing) might take a tone I would not personally take, and so perhaps I might get a bit defensive in unintentional harmony even where I would not deny those taking a different view to me have been on the receiving end more than the giving, on balance.

david_herdson

Burnham's campaign has been worse than Portillo's. Portillo upset his former supporters by straying from their true Thatcherite message: he was the wrong person giving the right analysis at the wrong time. Cameron succeeded four years later on a very similar platform but he had the advantage of no baggage and a party more receptive to the message. Arguably, Portillo could have won had he continued to promote a prescription he himself had lost faith in. It's to his credit that he didn't.

By contrast, Burnham has offered no policy analysis at all beyond an NHS-care linkup, which while probably a good idea is hardly a wide-ranging vision or even a particularly inspiring policy. On top of which, he himself has been crap enough to finish third in a two-horse race.

The_Apocalypse

AndyJS said:

The_Apocalypse said:

kle4 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Embarked clearly means got on the boat. All the evidence is that they are not taking boats from Syria to Greece but are embarking in Turkey. Or in the case of those from North Africa in Libya. Unless you think they sailed across the desert from Gambia on boats?

But nonetheless, as I said to @kle4 the jist of my point remains: what happens to these people once they get back to Turkey? Do they get put in camps, or then back into Syria? Neither of which solves the humanitarian problem.

Those on the Right are really rattled today, and in fact just rattled in general when anyone dares to criticise their POV and how they see the world.

a) I'm not on the Right (economically perhaps), and b) I've said I'm happy to accept certain numbers of refugees, and c) it has been commented several times that while the camps don't solve the humanitarian crisis they are part of a wider plan which does at least attempt to, and infact neither does taking in the refugees (unless all the millions upon millions are taken, which no one is suggesting), it solves the personal crises of those taken in but does not solve the problem.

Feel free to disagree with that stance, but just as there are those most definitely on the right (I cannot think I am given all the times I defended Ed M as going to be ok as PM) who's views dofit yours perfectly on this issue, just because there are those on the right getting rattled who's views do not, does not mean those views are without merit automatically, nor the thing they oppose can escape criticism if it is presented as something it is not, that is, a solution to the causes of the humanitarian crisis (and without solving the cause, the crisis cannot be solved).

As I said in the previous thread, I'm not talking about you, but rather those that are actively angry at me, and my posts. You are not, and we've managed to debate in a civil, friendly way (thankfully). In the last thread in your previous post to me, I said that I thought you probably have made the most reasoned assessment on the crisis.

I didn't notice anyone getting angry apart from the "snide comment" discussion. It was very civilised otherwise.

Prior to that I was accused of trying to get attention, being bitter, being upset, patronised, criticised for not knowing what the hell fourth form was (why would I know that - sounds like a term used decade ago!) accused of being naive, and living in a pink fluffy world, and called ignorant.

SimonStClare

Andy Burnham: has a Labour leadership candidate ever been so quickly exposed as a vacuous, serial flip flopper? - A bit late, but Cooper has done well this week imho.

TwistedFireStopper

I saw the Sky News debate last night, and it made me realise just how deep in the mire Labour really are. Corbyn is the only one who sounded sane-and he's batshit crazy!
I'm even more convinced that Labour need a Corbyn win, so that they can go barmy for a couple of years, and hopefully come out the other side with a party that I can actually vote for.

david_herdson

TheScreamingEagles said:

Godamnit, I should have headlined this piece "Understanding the mini Cooper surge"

Ah, the experience of seeing the headline too late. Welcome to the club, man.

SimonStClare

TheScreamingEagles said:

Godamnit, I should have headlined this piece "Understanding the mini Cooper surge"

You're the boss - don't you have an edit button

The_Apocalypse

kle4 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

kle4 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Embarked clearly means got on the boat. All the evidence is that they are not taking boats from Syria to Greece but are embarking in Turkey. Or in the case of those from North Africa in Libya. Unless you think they sailed across the desert from Gambia on boats?

But nonetheless, as I said to @kle4 the jist of my point remains: what happens to these people once they get back to Turkey? Do they get put in camps, or then back into Syria? Neither of which solves the humanitarian problem.

Those on the Right are really rattled today, and in fact just rattled in general when anyone dares to criticise their POV and how they see the world.

a) I'm not on the Right (economically perhaps), and b) I've said I'm happy to accept certain numbers of refugees, and c) it has been commented several times that while the camps don't solve the humanitarian crisis they are part of a wider plan which does at least attempt to, and infact neither does taking in the refugees (unless all the millions upon millions are taken, which no one is suggesting), it solves the personal crises of those taken in but does not solve the problem.

Feel free to disagree with that stance, but just as there are those most definitely on the right (I cannot think I am given all the times I defended Ed M as going to be ok as PM) who's views dofit yours perfectly on this issue, just because there are those on the right getting rattled who's views do not, does not mean those views are without merit automatically, nor the thing they oppose can escape criticism if it is presented as something it is not, that is, a solution to the causes of the humanitarian crisis (and without solving the cause, the crisis cannot be solved).

As I said in the previous thread, I'm not talking about you, but rather those that are actively angry at me, and my posts. You are not, and we've managed to debate in a civil, friendly way (thankfully). In the last thread in your previous post to me, I said that I thought you probably have made the most reasoned assessment on the crisis.

Then I apologise for being a little touchy -I'll grant my own view on this matter seems to accord more closely with some who (certainly in the morning thread from what I saw in passing) might take a tone I would not personally take, and so perhaps I might get a bit defensive in unintentional harmony even where I would not deny those taking a different view to me have been on the receiving end more than the giving, on balance.

It's okay. I think we can all be (myself included) touchy sometimes.

RobD

The_Apocalypse said:

AndyJS said:

The_Apocalypse said:

kle4 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Embarked clearly means got on the boat. All the evidence is that they are not taking boats from Syria to Greece but are embarking in Turkey. Or in the case of those from North Africa in Libya. Unless you think they sailed across the desert from Gambia on boats?

But nonetheless, as I said to @kle4 the jist of my point remains: what happens to these people once they get back to Turkey? Do they get put in camps, or then back into Syria? Neither of which solves the humanitarian problem.

Those on the Right are really rattled today, and in fact just rattled in general when anyone dares to criticise their POV and how they see the world.

a) I'm not on the Right (economically perhaps), and b) I've said I'm happy to accept certain numbers of refugees, and c) it has been commented several times that while the camps don't solve the humanitarian crisis they are part of a wider plan which does at least attempt to, and infact neither does taking in the refugees (unless all the millions upon millions are taken, which no one is suggesting), it solves the personal crises of those taken in but does not solve the problem.

Feel free to disagree with that stance, but just as there are those most definitely on the right (I cannot think I am given all the times I defended Ed M as going to be ok as PM) who's views dofit yours perfectly on this issue, just because there are those on the right getting rattled who's views do not, does not mean those views are without merit automatically, nor the thing they oppose can escape criticism if it is presented as something it is not, that is, a solution to the causes of the humanitarian crisis (and without solving the cause, the crisis cannot be solved).

As I said in the previous thread, I'm not talking about you, but rather those that are actively angry at me, and my posts. You are not, and we've managed to debate in a civil, friendly way (thankfully). In the last thread in your previous post to me, I said that I thought you probably have made the most reasoned assessment on the crisis.

I didn't notice anyone getting angry apart from the "snide comment" discussion. It was very civilised otherwise.

Prior to that I was accused of trying to get attention, being bitter, being upset, patronised, criticised for not knowing what the hell fourth form was (why would I know that - sounds like a term used decade ago!) accused of being naive, and living in a pink fluffy world, and called ignorant.

RE the sixth form thing. It doesn't take that much of a leap to think that fifth form is one below sixth, and fourth is two below.

AndyJS

Portillo didn't campaign properly in 2001 because he'd already lost confidence in the Thatcherite agenda most of his potential supporters believed in. Burnham doesn't have any such excuse for doing poorly.

The_Apocalypse

RobD said:

RE the sixth form thing. It doesn't take that much of a leap to think that fifth form is one below sixth, and fourth is two below.

The only thing I'd heard referred to as 'form' has been sixth form. I don't exactly think it's a crime I didn't know! I'm not in the mood to decode information.

kle4

RobD said:

The_Apocalypse said:

AndyJS said:

The_Apocalypse said:

kle4 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Embarked clearly means got on the boat. All the evidence is that they are not taking boats from Syria to Greece but are embarking in Turkey. Or in the case of those from North Africa in Libya. Unless you think they sailed across the desert from Gambia on boats?

But nonetheless, as I said to @kle4 the jist of my point remains: what happens to these people once they get back to Turkey? Do they get put in camps, or then back into Syria? Neither of which solves the humanitarian problem.

Those on the Right are really rattled today, and in fact just rattled in general when anyone dares to criticise their POV and how they see the world.

a) I'm not o.

As I said in the previous thread, I'm not talking about you, but rather those that are actively angry at me, and my posts. You are not, and we've managed to debate in a civil, friendly way (thankfully). In the last thread in your previous post to me, I said that I thought you probably have made the most reasoned assessment on the crisis.

I didn't notice anyone getting angry apart from the "snide comment" discussion. It was very civilised otherwise.

Prior to that I was accused of trying to get attention, being bitter, being upset, patronised, criticised for not knowing what the hell fourth form was (why would I know that - sounds like a term used decade ago!) accused of being naive, and living in a pink fluffy world, and called ignorant.

RE the sixth form thing. It doesn't take that much of a leap to think that fifth form is one below sixth, and fourth is two below.

Sure, it's obvious when you lay it out like that, but when never heard used as an analogy before, certainly my brain never made the leap. Why use Fourth form as an example? Is that a common age for naivete? Ten years since my sixth form days, and fourth form wasn't used then either.

It's a tiny thing, and I feel stupid for not getting it too, but I do think it's reasonable.

JEO

The_Apocalypse,

Why would the Right be rattled today? It is the mass failing of left-wing ideas on immigration and European integration that have led to this crisis. And the only ideas the Left has to deal with the problem is to pursue the same ideas on steroids.

It's not the state of conservatism I'm worried about: it's the future of Europe.

Danny565

another_richard said:

Kendall was the candidate for those who wanted a new Blair but without Blair's talent and charisma.

Well, would Blair without Blair's charisma have actually been successful? this goes into the eternal argument about whether Blair's success was caused by his "centre-ground" positioning, or whether it was caused almost totally by his personal qualities.

The Newsnight focus groups last week started with them all saying how much they liked Blair, yet when given videos of Kendall they dismissed her on the basis that "she speaks with no emotion" and that "she reminds me of a headteacher with no personality" (from 9:18):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WYiZ8zjOJ4

The_Apocalypse

JEO said:

The_Apocalypse,

Why would the Right be rattled today? It is the mass failing of left-wing ideas on immigration and European integration that have led to this crisis. And the only ideas the Left has to deal with the problem is to pursue the same ideas on steroids.

It's not the state of conservatism I'm worried about: it's the future of Europe.

I think

- Accusing me of trying to get attention
- Accusing me of being upset
- Accusing me of being bitter
-Accusing me of being naive
- Mocking me for not knowing what fourth form was
-Accusing me of living in a pink fluffy world
- Accusing me of being snide
- Accusing me of being ignorant

All from those (not you) which seem to identify as centre-right to right-wing, indicates that they are a bit rattled.

JEO

TwistedFireStopper said:

Corbyn is the only one who sounded sane-and he's batshit crazy!

It's a good job I wasn't drinking anything when reading this, or I'd have ruined my laptop! I'm chuckling every time I re-read it.

TheScreamingEagles

Burnham now out to 10 on Betfair.

JEO

The_Apocalypse said:

JEO said:

The_Apocalypse,

Why would the Right be rattled today? It is the mass failing of left-wing ideas on immigration and European integration that have led to this crisis. And the only ideas the Left has to deal with the problem is to pursue the same ideas on steroids.

It's not the state of conservatism I'm worried about: it's the future of Europe.

I think

- Accusing me of trying to get attention
- Accusing me of being upset
- Accusing me of being bitter
-Accusing me of being naive
- Mocking me for not knowing what fourth form was
-Accusing me of living in a pink fluffy world
- Accusing me of being snide
- Accusing me of being ignorant

All from those (not you) which seem to identify as centre-right to right-wing, indicates that they are a bit rattled.

I don't think being rude or patronising necessitates being rattled, sadly. But I think you have a certain selection bias here: you are noticing the right-wingers doing such things and not the ones remaining perfectly reasonable.

RobD

The_Apocalypse said:

JEO said:

The_Apocalypse,

Why would the Right be rattled today? It is the mass failing of left-wing ideas on immigration and European integration that have led to this crisis. And the only ideas the Left has to deal with the problem is to pursue the same ideas on steroids.

It's not the state of conservatism I'm worried about: it's the future of Europe.

I think

- Accusing me of trying to get attention
- Accusing me of being upset
- Accusing me of being bitter
-Accusing me of being naive
- Mocking me for not knowing what fourth form was
-Accusing me of living in a pink fluffy world
- Accusing me of being snide
- Accusing me of being ignorant

All from those (not you) which seem to identify as centre-right to right-wing, indicates that they are a bit rattled.

Mocking you for not knowing fourth form indicates someone is rattled about immigration?

The_Apocalypse

RobD said:

The_Apocalypse said:

JEO said:

The_Apocalypse,

Why would the Right be rattled today? It is the mass failing of left-wing ideas on immigration and European integration that have led to this crisis. And the only ideas the Left has to deal with the problem is to pursue the same ideas on steroids.

It's not the state of conservatism I'm worried about: it's the future of Europe.

I think

- Accusing me of trying to get attention
- Accusing me of being upset
- Accusing me of being bitter
-Accusing me of being naive
- Mocking me for not knowing what fourth form was
-Accusing me of living in a pink fluffy world
- Accusing me of being snide
- Accusing me of being ignorant

All from those (not you) which seem to identify as centre-right to right-wing, indicates that they are a bit rattled.

Mocking you for not knowing fourth form indicates someone is rattled about immigration?

Not rattled about immigration specifically, but just rattled that someone sees the world differently.

RobD

The_Apocalypse said:

RobD said:

The_Apocalypse said:

JEO said:

The_Apocalypse,

Why would the Right be rattled today? It is the mass failing of left-wing ideas on immigration and European integration that have led to this crisis. And the only ideas the Left has to deal with the problem is to pursue the same ideas on steroids.

It's not the state of conservatism I'm worried about: it's the future of Europe.

I think

- Accusing me of trying to get attention
- Accusing me of being upset
- Accusing me of being bitter
-Accusing me of being naive
- Mocking me for not knowing what fourth form was
-Accusing me of living in a pink fluffy world
- Accusing me of being snide
- Accusing me of being ignorant

All from those (not you) which seem to identify as centre-right to right-wing, indicates that they are a bit rattled.

Mocking you for not knowing fourth form indicates someone is rattled about immigration?

Not rattled about immigration, but just rattled that someone sees the world differently.

A world without fourth form?

TheScreamingEagles

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

The_Apocalypse

@JEO When you're a bit overwhelmed, sometimes it's difficult to notice the reasonable ones. Only you, @Disraeli (although I don't know if he sees himself as right-wing), @another_richard (and I'm unaware he identifies as a right winger), @kle4 (I think he's a centrist though he can confirm whether I'm right/wrong) @MattW were okay.

MikeK

TheScreamingEagles said:

Burnham now out to 10 on Betfair.

Burnham looks and acts like a Zombie, and not a very clean one, too.
Cooper the Ice Queen is not loved.
Kendal has become Charlie's Aunt, a make believe character.

The_Apocalypse

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

That's lovely

MikeK

The_Apocalypse said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

That's lovely

Who is this @The_Apocalypse bloke? He cannot be real.

The_Apocalypse

MikeK said:

The_Apocalypse said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

That's lovely

Who is this @The_Apocalypse bloke? He cannot be real.

I'm a woman.

AndyJS

"Revealed: How the five wealthiest Gulf Nations have so far refused to take a single Syrian refugee":

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3222405/How-six-wealthiest-Gulf-Nations-refused-single-Syrian-refugee.html

Morris_Dancer

Good evening, everyone.

Mr. JS, austerity's clearly to blame. And nuclear weapons.

The_Apocalypse

I'd also like to know how I can't be 'real'. Do you have to qualify as right wing before you get status as a real life human being or something?

watford30

AndyJS said:

"Revealed: How the five wealthiest Gulf Nations have so far refused to take a single Syrian refugee":

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3222405/How-six-wealthiest-Gulf-Nations-refused-single-Syrian-refugee.html

I wonder why? What do they know that Europe's weak and flailing leaders don't?

MikeK

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

Wait for the explosion when benefits and housing are given to these newcomers over native born British. Of course the present British population is noted for it's apathy, but even that shows sign of strain.

RobD

The_Apocalypse said:

I'd also like to know how I can't be 'real'. Do you have to qualify as right wing before you get status as a real life human being or something?

The correct PB term in "unspoofable"

TheScreamingEagles

MikeK said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

Wait for the explosion when benefits and housing are given to these newcomers over native born British. Of course the present British population is noted for it's apathy, but even that shows sign of strain.

I'm still waiting for your 102 UKIP MPs

Morris_Dancer

Ms. Apocalypse, you haven't been claiming Caesar's superior to Hannibal, have you?

That's sure to arouse incredulity.

watford30

TheScreamingEagles said:

MikeK said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

Wait for the explosion when benefits and housing are given to these newcomers over native born British. Of course the present British population is noted for it's apathy, but even that shows sign of strain.

I'm still waiting for your 102 UKIP MPs

Wasn't it 1 or 2?

SandyRentool

Back at the time of the Newcastle hustings (which seems like around 6 months ago), Cooper was the one who exceeded my expectations in how she performed on the day. That is why I gave her my second preference. It looks like that perception is spreading.

Alanbrooke

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

Im british.

I'm not feeling it.

RobD

watford30 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

MikeK said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

Wait for the explosion when benefits and housing are given to these newcomers over native born British. Of course the present British population is noted for it's apathy, but even that shows sign of strain.

I'm still waiting for your 102 UKIP MPs

Wasn't it 1 or 2?

To our delight on election night, it was only one!

The_Apocalypse

Morris_Dancer said:

Ms. Apocalypse, you haven't been claiming Caesar's superior to Hannibal, have you?

That's sure to arouse incredulity.

I think Alexander the Great tops them both

Tim_B

Morris_Dancer said:

Ms. Apocalypse, you haven't been claiming Caesar's superior to Hannibal, have you?

That's sure to arouse incredulity.

Caesar is superior in salads

Morris_Dancer

Ms. Apocalypse, probably true, but Alexander did benefit from the best inheritance of any of them, and was a fluky fellow [not that he didn't deserve it].

stodge

The_Apocalypse said:

@JEO When you're a bit overwhelmed, sometimes it's difficult to notice the reasonable ones. Only you, @Disraeli (although I don't know if he sees himself as right-wing), @another_richard (and I'm unaware he identifies as a right winger), @kle4 (I think he's a centrist though he can confirm whether I'm right/wrong) @MattW were okay.

You have to remember the "right" are themselves split from stem to stern on this issue. Sam Bowman from the Adam Smith Institute (hardly on the left) argues for the economic benefits of migration:

http://www.cityam.com/223608/accepting-more-refugees-not-just-right-thing-do-it-d-be-good-us-too

You then have the likes of David Burrowes MP who was arguing on Sky yesterday for Britain to take a large number of refugees and doing a passable Tim Farron impression in so doing.

Others take a different line.

TheScreamingEagles

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

Im british.

I'm not feeling it.

Even Norn Iron are willing to take on Syrian Refugees, if the UK government foots the bill..

AndyJS

The_Apocalypse said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

That's lovely

The UK taking in a few thousand Syrian refugees would be supported by most people I think. Cameron's idea of picking them up directly from the Middle-East in order to discourage the dangerous journey to Europe is a good one, which other European leaders should take note of.

SandyRentool

The_Apocalypse said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Ms. Apocalypse, you haven't been claiming Caesar's superior to Hannibal, have you?

That's sure to arouse incredulity.

I think Alexander the Great tops them both

What about Ozziebornius, King of Kings?

Artist

I think Cooper may have perked up because there's now a chance Corbyn won't win on first preferences and it'll go to a final round, where she'll make a tiny indent into Corbyn's massive lead through Kendall's second preferences. The rest of the article referenced pretty much explains that no one thinks Cooper can win and the only hope of Corbyn not winning through this campaign was for some Corbyn waverers to switch to Burnham.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. B, we all know Hannibal prefers meat.

Tim_B

SandyRentool said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Ms. Apocalypse, you haven't been claiming Caesar's superior to Hannibal, have you?

That's sure to arouse incredulity.

I think Alexander the Great tops them both

What about Ozziebornius, King of Kings?

What about his wife Sharon?

Cyclefree

More Corbyn news - apparently our jingoism was the cause of the death of one of the hostages murdered by IS.

http://hurryupharry.org/2015/09/02/jeremy-corbyn-on-alan-henning-our-fault/

Tim_B

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. B, we all know Hannibal prefers meat.

No wonder he took all those elephants

Alanbrooke

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

Im british.

I'm not feeling it.

Even Norn Iron are willing to take on Syrian Refugees, if the UK government foots the bill..

And what ?

The whole presmise is nuts.

Oddly I think cameron has been right on this the whole way along in supporting people in their home countries. Merkel is just plain wrong/ Why Cameron gave in is simply baffling.

Luckyguy1983

AndyJS said:

"Revealed: How the five wealthiest Gulf Nations have so far refused to take a single Syrian refugee":

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3222405/How-six-wealthiest-Gulf-Nations-refused-single-Syrian-refugee.html

It's ok though because Obama has got King Salman over and given him a right stern talking to about it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/04/us/politics/iran-deal-will-top-agenda-when-saudi-king-visits-white-house.html?_r=0

Oh, no sorry, he's actually offered to sell him a billion dollar's worth of missiles.

matt

MikeK said:

The_Apocalypse said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

That's lovely

Who is this @The_Apocalypse bloke? He cannot be real.

Probably owns a smartphone. Hyper-wealthy indicator.

Morris_Dancer

Miss Cyclefree, I was going to suggest that couldn't be accurate, but given his tosh on the Falklands, perhaps it is.

kle4

The_Apocalypse said:

@JEO When you're a bit overwhelmed, sometimes it's difficult to notice the reasonable ones. Only you, @Disraeli (although I don't know if he sees himself as right-wing), @another_richard (and I'm unaware he identifies as a right winger), @kle4 (I think he's a centrist though he can confirm whether I'm right/wrong) @MattW were okay.

I'd say I'm a centrist, if political predictors can be believed policy wise there's not usually too much between all the main parties and my own views, and I detest partisanship, but I do think I lean more conservative than Labour instinctively (though I've never voted either), which I attribute to growing up a) in the SW, where even a lot of the Labour supporters seem pretty Blue, and b) during the time of Blair, who I thought was a smarmy, offputting man.

Really I'm just indecisive - I often use the username 'dedicatedfencesitter' on these interwebs, and my avatar is an ideal I try to live up to

Tykejohnno

TheScreamingEagles said:

MikeK said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

Wait for the explosion when benefits and housing are given to these newcomers over native born British. Of course the present British population is noted for it's apathy, but even that shows sign of strain.

I'm still waiting for your 102 UKIP MPs

If we get any immigration plans from some of the lefty idiots I've seen put into action,you just might see the 102 UKIP MP's.

JEO

The_Apocalypse said:

MikeK said:

The_Apocalypse said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

That's lovely

Who is this @The_Apocalypse bloke? He cannot be real.

I'm a woman.

Girls don't exist on the internet.

watford30

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

Im british.

I'm not feeling it.

Even Norn Iron are willing to take on Syrian Refugees, if the UK government foots the bill..

And what ?

The whole presmise is nuts.

Oddly I think cameron has been right on this the whole way along in supporting people in their home countries. Merkel is just plain wrong/ Why Cameron gave in is simply baffling.

Germany will be overwhelmed. Merkel's launched the human relocation equivalent of the Hoover Free Flight debacle.

Tim_B

JEO said:

The_Apocalypse said:

MikeK said:

The_Apocalypse said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

That's lovely

Who is this @The_Apocalypse bloke? He cannot be real.

I'm a woman.

Girls don't exist on the internet.

Unless they recently became one

The_Apocalypse

SandyRentool said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Ms. Apocalypse, you haven't been claiming Caesar's superior to Hannibal, have you?

That's sure to arouse incredulity.

I think Alexander the Great tops them both

What about Ozziebornius, King of Kings?

One day, though the political mastermind Ozziebornius will meet his maker....

Morris_Dancer

Mr. 30, it's a credible possibility. Merkel's migrant policy is mind-numbingly stupid. As stupid as replacing Maurice with Phocas.

Is she trying to rival the Fourth Crusade for most self-defeating Western policy in the whole of history?

Eh_ehm_a_eh

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

Im british.

I'm not feeling it.

Even Norn Iron are willing to take on Syrian Refugees, if the UK government foots the bill..

And what ?

The whole presmise is nuts.

Oddly I think cameron has been right on this the whole way along in supporting people in their home countries. Merkel is just plain wrong/ Why Cameron gave in is simply baffling.

Gave in because he saw a dead kid on a beach. He heard the murmurings of people
and thought i'll change my mind, because i don't like to be unpopular.
Shallow, shallow man.

Tykejohnno

Thousands? Britain should prepare to accept quarter of a MILLION refugees, says Green leader Natalie Bennett

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3222470/Foot-dragging-Britain-open-door-240-000-refugees-says-Green-leader-Natalie-Bennett.html

AndyJS

Tykejohnno said:

Thousands? Britain should prepare to accept quarter of a MILLION refugees, says Green leader Natalie Bennett

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3222470/Foot-dragging-Britain-open-door-240-000-refugees-says-Green-leader-Natalie-Bennett.html

This is the leader whose party was scoring 7-8% in the polls before the election and then polled 3.8% on the day.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Johnno, if you have no prospect of power, you can advocate anything.

Like a small fleet of Death Stars... ahem.

Luckyguy1983

watford30 said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

Im british.

I'm not feeling it.

Even Norn Iron are willing to take on Syrian Refugees, if the UK government foots the bill..

And what ?

The whole presmise is nuts.

Oddly I think cameron has been right on this the whole way along in supporting people in their home countries. Merkel is just plain wrong/ Why Cameron gave in is simply baffling.

Germany will be overwhelmed. Merkel's launched the human relocation equivalent of the Hoover Free Flight debacle.

And once they get EU passports, so will we.

The_Apocalypse

kle4 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

@JEO When you're a bit overwhelmed, sometimes it's difficult to notice the reasonable ones. Only you, @Disraeli (although I don't know if he sees himself as right-wing), @another_richard (and I'm unaware he identifies as a right winger), @kle4 (I think he's a centrist though he can confirm whether I'm right/wrong) @MattW were okay.

I'd say I'm a centrist, if political predictors can be believed policy wise there's not usually too much between all the main parties and my own views, and I detest partisanship, but I do think I lean more conservative than Labour instinctively (though I've never voted either), which I attribute to growing up a) in the SW, where even a lot of the Labour supporters seem pretty Blue, and b) during the time of Blair, who I thought was a smarmy, offputting man.

Really I'm just indecisive - I often use the username 'dedicatedfencesitter' on these interwebs, and my avatar is an ideal I try to live up to

Nearly all of the family, and our friends for that matter - are Labour. The only Tories are my grandad, and one family friend. So I guess that contributes to my own politics. I also grew up in London (until around 11) the home of metropolitian liberalism. Although Watford (incidentally, where Liz Kendall also grew up) is more representative of the wider country.

My mum, actually was fairly late to being a Labour supporter though. She has voted Conservative (Major), LD ( Paddy Ashdown, Charles Kennedyand Nick Clegg), and Labour (Ed Miliband). So she's more of a floater, probably liberal (but never a socialist as she always reminds me). She also hated Blair, and prides herself on not voting for Blair in 1997.

kle4

Eh_ehm_a_eh said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

Im british.

I'm not feeling it.

Even Norn Iron are willing to take on Syrian Refugees, if the UK government foots the bill..

And what ?

The whole presmise is nuts.

Oddly I think cameron has been right on this the whole way along in supporting people in their home countries. Merkel is just plain wrong/ Why Cameron gave in is simply baffling.

Gave in because he saw a dead kid on a beach. He heard the murmurings of people
and thought i'll change my mind, because i don't like to be unpopular.
Shallow, shallow man.

Given he can still proceed with his own plans on the matter, I think it a bit unreaslitic to expect a politician to stand firm in the face of that sort of public pressure for long. Sometimes it would be very harmful to do so, and they must indeed resist. I don't think his giving in will be that harmful, the decision by Germany essentially did all the damage it was going to do on its own, so giving in, while hopefully not conceding the argument, is less necessary to condemn even if it some will view it as unwise.

HYUFD

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Yet Burnham still ran Corbyn significantly closer than Cooper in the final round with yougov so a Cooper Corbyn final would almost certainly see Corbyn triumph as more of Burnham's backers will put Corbyn in their top 3 than Cooper's voters. It should also be stated Twitter has reported some Corbyn voters moving to Burnham at the last minute which could offset any slight increase in Kendall voters preferencing Cooper

Bless, you're

i) Using a month old poll, things have moved on such as his woman leader comments

ii) Twitter, if twitter was accurate barometer, we wouldn't be having a Labour leadership election because Ed Miliband would be Prime Minister right now

Firstly none of that changes my overall conclusion that Burnham has an outside chance of beating Corbyn Cooper has next to No chance due to the Burnham voters who will preference Corbyn. Second I never felt Twitter was pro Miliband in the way it was pro SNP however it is pro Corbyn which explains his rise in the polls. Twitter signifies momentum though not necessarily winners

Cyclefree

Morris_Dancer said:

Miss Cyclefree, I was going to suggest that couldn't be accurate, but given his tosh on the Falklands, perhaps it is.

You can see him speak here - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=04aD9b6eZFc


Corbyn seems quite unable to put the blame on the perpetrators. Corbyn's election - if he does win - will please the terrorists, the terrorist appeasers, the fascists, the anti-Semites, the theocrats, the illiberals, the homophobes, those who want to keep women in their place, all those who despise free, democratic and liberal societies. It will be a dark day for Labour and our country if he wins.

I really hope that he does not.

If he does not, there needs to be a fight back against the ideology and world view he represents. A stone has been lifted in the Labour garden and there is something very nasty underneath.

The_Apocalypse

JEO said:

The_Apocalypse said:

MikeK said:

The_Apocalypse said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

That's lovely

Who is this @The_Apocalypse bloke? He cannot be real.

I'm a woman.

Girls don't exist on the internet.

It does seem that's what people think!

Morris_Dancer

Miss Cyclefree, only watched a little.

Not a Labour sort, as is known, but they should have a better selection of potential leaders than a total lightweight, someone who seems to think bigotry's fine if expressed against white men, and a friend of Hamas.

AndyJS

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. 30, it's a credible possibility. Merkel's migrant policy is mind-numbingly stupid. As stupid as replacing Maurice with Phocas.

Is she trying to rival the Fourth Crusade for most self-defeating Western policy in the whole of history?

It's testament to the dangers of crap opposition. The German Social Democrats have been marooned on about 25% for nearly ten years, which means Merkel hasn't been subject to the type of scrutiny you'd expect. It's been all too easy for her.

kle4

AndyJS said:

Tykejohnno said:

Thousands? Britain should prepare to accept quarter of a MILLION refugees, says Green leader Natalie Bennett

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3222470/Foot-dragging-Britain-open-door-240-000-refugees-says-Green-leader-Natalie-Bennett.html

This is the leader whose party was scoring 7-8% in the polls before the election and then polled 3.8% on the day.

Ah, but the Greens are representative of the whole country's opinions, they are always so sure of that. For some reason the voters never back them up come election time. Shy, perhaps.

Actually I almost voted Green this time. If they'd bothered to put anything through the door I might have, as I was uncertain and I want small parties to do well even though their manifesto was nonsense (it had tables in it though, which made me feel better), but if they weren't going to make any effort, they didn't deserve my vote.

MikeL

Corbyn just matched at 36 for next PM!

Next PM:

Corbyn 9.2/36
Cooper 11.5/12
Burnham 19.5/36

Morris_Dancer

Mr. JS, the Western Roman Empire lacked opposition, and when some turned up it had exhausted its strength in futile civil wars.

Even so, her policy is so obviously stupid it's baffling. Is it akin to a celebrity wearing a ridiculous outfit, but his hangers-on are so sycophantic they just nod and say it's great?

Richard_Tyndall

JEO said:

The_Apocalypse said:

MikeK said:

The_Apocalypse said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

That's lovely

Who is this @The_Apocalypse bloke? He cannot be real.

I'm a woman.

Girls don't exist on the internet.

If that is true then I am horribly disturbed by all those pictures and videos I have been looking at for the last decade or more. Maybe I need to reconsider my sexuality...

MikeK

Cyclefree said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Miss Cyclefree, I was going to suggest that couldn't be accurate, but given his tosh on the Falklands, perhaps it is.

You can see him speak here - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=04aD9b6eZFc


Corbyn seems quite unable to put the blame on the perpetrators. Corbyn's election - if he does win - will please the terrorists, the terrorist appeasers, the fascists, the anti-Semites, the theocrats, the illiberals, the homophobes, those who want to keep women in their place, all those who despise free, democratic and liberal societies. It will be a dark day for Labour and our country if he wins.

I really hope that he does not.

If he does not, there needs to be a fight back against the ideology and world view he represents. A stone has been lifted in the Labour garden and there is something very nasty underneath.

A stone was lifted when Ken Livingstone was flourishing. The smell was atrocious and the stink was obvious, yet nobody in the political - especialy in Labour - world said anything against a terrorist admiring, Jew baiting antisemite. Instead there were many who said that they admired Livingstone as an upholder of the Left.

Philip_Thompson

Tykejohnno said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

MikeK said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Front page of the Times make you proud to be British

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFXiUiW8AAk2oE.jpg

Wait for the explosion when benefits and housing are given to these newcomers over native born British. Of course the present British population is noted for it's apathy, but even that shows sign of strain.

I'm still waiting for your 102 UKIP MPs

If we get any immigration plans from some of the lefty idiots I've seen put into action,you just might see the 102 UKIP MP's.

Yeah and we might get 102 Green MP's.

HYUFD

The_Apocalypse said:

Although Kendall's run a bad campaign, she's was never a big favourite for the role - only a dark horse very early on. Meanwhile Burnham has now run two leadership campaigns, this one in which he was the big favourite and has been active in frontline politics for years. That someone of his exprience has run such a flop leadership campaign, means his rubbish campaign trumps Kendall's as the most terrible leadership campaign in recent times.

Actually Chuka Umunna was the big favourite and it was only once he withdrew Burnham became the next most likely option