In addition to female-only carriages Jezbollah wants to set up a 24-hour train grope hotline. Could this be Major's traffic cone hotline all over again? This kind of thing is usually reserved for deeply unpopular parties floundering before an election... oh wait!
The phone thing is just odd - a 24hour hotline for reporting abuse? Surely that already exists - it's 999 Police.
Why pay one man to do a job when you can pay two? That's the essence of Jezzanomics
Nothing beats the Real Ale Train. Several preserved railways, including my own - the mid-Hants, have entire steam trains devoted to drinking beer all evening, and eating takeaway cartons of curry served out of a giant vat in the buffet car.
The Real Ale Trail from Manchester to Huddersfield and back is worth checking out if you're ever in the area. Horrible First Transpennine Express trains though
Nothing beats the Real Ale Train. Several preserved railways, including my own - the mid-Hants, have entire steam trains devoted to drinking beer all evening, and eating takeaway cartons of curry served out of a giant vat in the buffet car.
To all intents and purposes, it is a male-only* train.
(*with a handful of brave, eccentric or oblivious ladies who don't know what they're letting themselves in for)
That brings back very happy memories.
There are also some very good dining trains on preserved railways. Including, I believe, the lovely Mid-Hants.
"Bring your friends: Stuff 'em on the Chuff 'em"
Absolutely. Me and my friends are planning to go again in the Autumn.
Nothing beats the Real Ale Train. Several preserved railways, including my own - the mid-Hants, have entire steam trains devoted to drinking beer all evening, and eating takeaway cartons of curry served out of a giant vat in the buffet car.
The Real Ale Trail from Manchester to Huddersfield and back is worth checking out if you're ever in the area. Horrible First Transpennine Express trains though
Thanks. Will look into it.
It is great weekdays. Saturday a complete nightmare. Teenage Rampage
meanwhile it occurs to me the the oligarchy currently in control of the Labour party, who are quite happy to change the rules of an electoral process while it is running because they don't like the result, are employing that self-same mindset which would (in government) allow them to rationalize changing intelligence evidence when it is inconvenient.
meanwhile it occurs to me the the oligarchy currently in control of the Labour party, who are quite happy to change the rules of an electoral process while it is running because they don't like the result, are employing that self-same mindset which would (in government) allow them to rationalize changing intelligence evidence when it is inconvenient.
And all the talk is of the Jezza faction taking over.
The smug, arrogant, rancid corpse of Blairite politics need to DIE, DIE, DIE AND DIE AGAIN in British politics. I hope Jezza hangs em with a rope off tower bridge, the lorra them.
Mr. Royale, indeed, I missed that before. Sorry to hear about that, Mr. Eagles.
But don't tell Corbyn, or he may suggest Asian-only carriages.
This will appeal very much to conservative religious Asian families.
Perhaps elderly ladies, and nervous, single or reserved women will also like it. Perhaps pregnant women as well. But will that fill up a whole carriage? And will plenty of other women feel it's patronising but feel a social pressure to sit in 'their' carriage if travelling alone?
What happens when the train is 'full'? Now, there's an unofficial rule that passengers can spill over into 1st class in emergencies, when the train operator or Network Rail cock-up.
Would male commuters be thrown off an overcrowded train if in the women's carriage? And how does this square with the Equality Act?
The more you think about it, the more stupid it sounds. If we're going to have anything it'd be far better to have an extra 'secure' carriage for vulnerable passengers. That can include some women, the elderly, young people who feel threatened, disabled and anyone else who is nervous. Football fans and drunks should be disallowed.
The carriage could have extra CCTV and monitoring by the BTP and regular checks by the guard.
I've just caught up with the last thread debate about female carriages.
It's absurd. I saw it pop up on my RSS just before I went to bed and was so WTF??!?! I clicked on the story to see if it was serious.
@HurstLlama mentioned the Ladies Waiting Room on Haywards Heath station in the 90s - I occasionally sat in there when it was freezing cold, but it had the loos in the same room, so it was more of a Toilet Antechamber...and unsurprisingly smelly. It used to have a fireplace too - but blocked up.
The more you think about it, the more stupid it sounds.
The more you think about it, the more you wonder why Corbyn is focusing on this issue - and not on the industrial-scale rape of children in our inner cites...
I've just caught up with the last thread debate about female carriages.
It's absurd. I saw it pop up on my RSS just before I went to bed and was so WTF??!?! I clicked on the story to see if it was serious.
@HurstLlama mentioned the Ladies Waiting Room on Haywards Heath station in the 90s - I occasionally sat in there when it was freezing cold, but it had the loos in the same room, so it was more of a Toilet Antechamber...and unsurprisingly smelly. It used to have a fireplace too - but blocked up.
Mr. Royale, indeed, I missed that before. Sorry to hear about that, Mr. Eagles.
But don't tell Corbyn, or he may suggest Asian-only carriages.
This will appeal very much to conservative religious Asian families.
Perhaps elderly ladies, and nervous, single or reserved women will also like it. Perhaps pregnant women as well. But will that fill up a whole carriage? And will plenty of other women feel it's patronising but feel a social pressure to sit in 'their' carriage if travelling alone?
Women-only carriages are a fantastic idea, but Asian-only carriages? Even better. In fact why don't we have a mosque carriage so that our Islamic commuters can pray any time? Surely you wouldn't disagree, what are you... RACIST? Unfortunately women will have to be excluded. We don't want to offend anyone you know
Mr. Royale, indeed, I missed that before. Sorry to hear about that, Mr. Eagles.
But don't tell Corbyn, or he may suggest Asian-only carriages.
This will appeal very much to conservative religious Asian families.
Perhaps elderly ladies, and nervous, single or reserved women will also like it. Perhaps pregnant women as well. But will that fill up a whole carriage? And will plenty of other women feel it's patronising but feel a social pressure to sit in 'their' carriage if travelling alone?
Women-only carriages are a fantastic idea, but Asian-only carriages? Even better. In fact why don't we have a mosque carriage so that our Islamic commuters can pray any time? Surely you wouldn't disagree, what are you... RACIST? Unfortunately women will have to be excluded. We don't want to offend anyone you know
I expect Corbyn wouldn't be unsympathetic to a prayer room on every train.
Mr. Royale, indeed, I missed that before. Sorry to hear about that, Mr. Eagles.
But don't tell Corbyn, or he may suggest Asian-only carriages.
This will appeal very much to conservative religious Asian families.
Perhaps elderly ladies, and nervous, single or reserved women will also like it. Perhaps pregnant women as well. But will that fill up a whole carriage? And will plenty of other women feel it's patronising but feel a social pressure to sit in 'their' carriage if travelling alone?
Women-only carriages are a fantastic idea, but Asian-only carriages? Even better. In fact why don't we have a mosque carriage so that our Islamic commuters can pray any time? Surely you wouldn't disagree, what are you... RACIST? Unfortunately women will have to be excluded. We don't want to offend anyone you know
As a white, male, stay-at-home father of more than average height who has minor health problems, and who is also intensely attractive and utterly modest, I face all sorts of threats. Therefore I want - nay demand - my own train. To disguise my presence there should be lots of steam and smoke, and as I am equal to everyone else I should be put right at the front.
Off topic, I see that the non-UK born population has now hit 8 million, which is almost certainly an underestimate, and that's not far off 15% of the population. Meanwhile net migration is continuing to run well north of 300k a year.
And behold, there is indeed nothing new under the sun.
'Two months after Sao Paolo’s city authorities approved a bill enforcing women-only carriages on the city’s metro network, a transport minister has said that similar measures may be needed in the UK. Claire Perry, speaking at the Conservative party conference in Birmingham yesterday, said she is “absolutely determined” to cut the number sexual offences on public transport, and that women-only carriages could be a way to prevent “groping and low-level violence”.'
As ever never let the facts get in the way of a "clickbait" headline. I think Corbyn's Comres polling numbers were surprisingly high given the Labour Grandees interventions and pretty much blanket MSM negative stories.
At one time the old carriages with individual compartments and no corridor were signified by a red stripe along the top (like the yellow stripe for first class). Women could then avoid, if they wished. Alternatively, couples and singles with a pressing need could seek these carriages out, deliberately...
Corbyn's actual statement seems somewhat at odds with the fevered imaginings of the PB Swarm.
Yes, it's even worse. He wants to consult women on the proposal. Apparently men won't be given any say in whether they should be excluded from certain carriages.
Corbyn's actual statement seems somewhat at odds with the fevered imaginings of the PB Swarm.
Yes, it's even worse. He wants to consult women on the proposal. Apparently men won't be given any say in whether they should be excluded from certain carriages.
Precisely. It's a classic 'men are the enemy' / oppressive patriarchy meme.
Men are simple, aggressive, dim-witted and threatening apes who women need to be protected against by law for their own good.
Mr. Royale, indeed, I missed that before. Sorry to hear about that, Mr. Eagles.
But don't tell Corbyn, or he may suggest Asian-only carriages.
This will appeal very much to conservative religious Asian families.
Perhaps elderly ladies, and nervous, single or reserved women will also like it. Perhaps pregnant women as well. But will that fill up a whole carriage? And will plenty of other women feel it's patronising but feel a social pressure to sit in 'their' carriage if travelling alone?
Women-only carriages are a fantastic idea, but Asian-only carriages? Even better. In fact why don't we have a mosque carriage so that our Islamic commuters can pray any time? Surely you wouldn't disagree, what are you... RACIST? Unfortunately women will have to be excluded. We don't want to offend anyone you know
As a white, male, stay-at-home father of more than average height who has minor health problems, and who is also intensely attractive and utterly modest, I face all sorts of threats. Therefore I want - nay demand - my own train. To disguise my presence there should be lots of steam and smoke, and as I am equal to everyone else I should be put right at the front.
You want a "cranks only" carriage at the front of the train, with normals restricted to the back. That's what it used to be like on summer Saturday trains to holiday destinations back in the 80s.
Predictably, the usual suspects have had a jolly good rant at Corbyn's idea of women-only carriages but the fact such carriages exist in a number of countries doesn't make them a bad idea.
That there are times of the day (and especially night) and routes where women may feel uncomfortable travelling alone is an unfortunate truth. The provision of staffed women-only carriages to provide security and safety on these occasions isn't an inappropriate or silly suggestion but eminently sensible.
No one is suggesting every train or tube should have a women-only carriage all the time but on occasions, on particular times and on particular routes, such carriages may be very useful.
In the same way, one of the hugely regrettable aspects of the closure of ticket offices at LU stations is that said offices act as a place of refuge and safety for people who are either taken ill or suffer something worse. The offices, accessible only to LU staff, could be used as a waiting area pending the arrival of Police or other services.
However, that dim-witted oaf, the Mayor of London, who doesn't seem to use the tube much himself, sees ticket offices as a) the last bastions of entrenched Union power and b) potential retail outlets for exploitation. The policy to close them is an ill-considered disaster - the one at Waterloo has gone and tourists are left milling round the machines causing queues which interrupt the flow of passengers at the Jubilee Line exits.
Off topic, I see that the non-UK born population has now hit 8 million, which is almost certainly an underestimate, and that's not far off 15% of the population. Meanwhile net migration is continuing to run well north of 300k a year.
- It's a terrible message to make females into victims/create special case situations like AWS et al.
- It doesn't address the issue that's cited as the reason to do it.
- It's incredibly patronising.
- And it panders to those who want to segregate females for cultural purposes.
I detest preferential treatment of women, all of it. There's being polite, and then there's pandering. Pandering IMO is the worst aspect of political correctness - it creates victims, entitlement, resentment and divisions.
Maybe it's just my personal forcefield but in 20yrs of commuting - no man has EVER pinched my arse, tried to wank up against me, or anything else I'd be WTF about. I've been more concerned about out of control teens/20s who are plastered and threatening.
I've just caught up with the last thread debate about female carriages.
It's absurd. I saw it pop up on my RSS just before I went to bed and was so WTF??!?! I clicked on the story to see if it was serious.
@HurstLlama mentioned the Ladies Waiting Room on Haywards Heath station in the 90s - I occasionally sat in there when it was freezing cold, but it had the loos in the same room, so it was more of a Toilet Antechamber...and unsurprisingly smelly. It used to have a fireplace too - but blocked up.
I'm in two minds over this, although veering towards it being a silly idea. There seem two aspects: the moral questions about segregation, and the practical about how it would work.
Looking at the first, it is the behaviour that needs to be challenged. Some commentators are confusing two issues: verbal abuse is far more common than physical abuse.
If you look at the figures - page 14 of (1), it should be noted that a small number of complainants are male: and this will be under-reported, especially for verbal abuse. The recent rise might be down to a campaign to encourage reporting of these offences, (2) but the number of offences reported against men has decreased, which seems slightly odd.
Looking at the second, it will cost money, and may reduce capacity on services. If it does, then perhaps the money would be best spent on more policing and getting people who feel that they've been abused to complain. There are cameras in carriages nowadays, and on platforms. It should be easy to find the suspects, especially repeat offenders.
This is working around the problem, not trying to solve it. Worse, it sends messages that women are not equal, and that they need protecting from men. Both are terrible messages. snip
I can sympathise with Mr. Eagles experience. Some years ago I was on a course and the only male delegate staying at the hotel, which meant I was the only bloke when we hit the bar and the curry house in the evening. The five ladies I was with clearly found my presence inhibiting, until one of them decided that if I was made an honorary girlie for the night they could talk without having to worry about having to spare my blushes. The motion was carried five to one, and I, a broadminded married man of mature years who thought he was well experienced in the ways of the world, was treated to a lesson in how the other half of the population think if not actually live. I was shocked.
Predictably, the usual suspects have had a jolly good rant at Corbyn's idea of women-only carriages but the fact such carriages exist in a number of countries doesn't make them a bad idea.
That there are times of the day (and especially night) and routes where women may feel uncomfortable travelling alone is an unfortunate truth. The provision of staffed women-only carriages to provide security and safety on these occasions isn't an inappropriate or silly suggestion but eminently sensible.
No one is suggesting every train or tube should have a women-only carriage all the time but on occasions, on particular times and on particular routes, such carriages may be very useful.
In the same way, one of the hugely regrettable aspects of the closure of ticket offices at LU stations is that said offices act as a place of refuge and safety for people who are either taken ill or suffer something worse. The offices, accessible only to LU staff, could be used as a waiting area pending the arrival of Police or other services.
However, that dim-witted oaf, the Mayor of London, who doesn't seem to use the tube much himself, sees ticket offices as a) the last bastions of entrenched Union power and b) potential retail outlets for exploitation. The policy to close them is an ill-considered disaster - the one at Waterloo has gone and tourists are left milling round the machines causing queues which interrupt the flow of passengers at the Jubilee Line exits.
What about the men who are abused on trains? Why shouldn't they have staff, or are men to be forgotten again?
The answer is probably two-fold:
1) encourage more reporting, and to follow those reports up, regardless of the gender, age or ethnicity of the complainant and offenders. Look for trends and multiple complaints, then have bans when offenders are discovered and convicted. Make this process visible, so the vulnerable can see that their complaints will be listened to. Let people liable to perform such acts know that they might well get caught.
People not born in the UK include my wife who was born in Tangier. As it was in the international zone and her mother was Scottish is that OK?
Get over immigrants, they are not the problem. Corbyn is quite right movements of people e.g.lots of Scots to Corby to work in the steel industry need schools etc.
To enhance my political experience still further, it also appears that, as a Londoner, I can vote in the Conservative Primary to choose their Mayoral candidate for the princely sum of 100 pennies.
Golly (as someone on here would say). Mr Corbyn may wish to pay his quid and make his choice.
Only trouble is, having looked at the runners last night, I think I've seen more quality in a Southwell midwinter seller than the group on offer so I might just keep the pound (as someone else once said).
Good idea – women should be free from sexual harassment and this is the simplest way to help 22% Bad idea – segregation is not a solution in a mixed and liberal country 68%
I agree - the best protection a lady can have from an evil rake is a gentleman.
Mr. Royale, indeed, I missed that before. Sorry to hear about that, Mr. Eagles.
But don't tell Corbyn, or he may suggest Asian-only carriages.
This will appeal very much to conservative religious Asian families.
Perhaps elderly ladies, and nervous, single or reserved women will also like it. Perhaps pregnant women as well. But will that fill up a whole carriage? And will plenty of other women feel it's patronising but feel a social pressure to sit in 'their' carriage if travelling alone?
What happens when the train is 'full'? Now, there's an unofficial rule that passengers can spill over into 1st class in emergencies, when the train operator or Network Rail cock-up.
Would male commuters be thrown off an overcrowded train if in the women's carriage? And how does this square with the Equality Act?
The more you think about it, the more stupid it sounds. If we're going to have anything it'd be far better to have an extra 'secure' carriage for vulnerable passengers. That can include some women, the elderly, young people who feel threatened, disabled and anyone else who is nervous. Football fans and drunks should be disallowed.
The carriage could have extra CCTV and monitoring by the BTP and regular checks by the guard.
The more you think about it, the more stupid it sounds.
The more you think about it, the more you wonder why Corbyn is focusing on this issue - and not on the industrial-scale rape of children in our inner cites...
In addition to female-only carriages Jezbollah wants to set up a 24-hour train grope hotline. Could this be Major's traffic cone hotline all over again? This kind of thing is usually reserved for deeply unpopular parties floundering before an election... oh wait!
The phone thing is just odd - a 24hour hotline for reporting abuse? Surely that already exists - it's 999 Police.
Lets face it the Guardians tag line is way off beam - it should read, 'sovietisation-of-britain-is-a-likelihood-under-jeremy-corbyn' Indeed somebody should start a #sovietisation-of-britain-is-a-likelihood-under-jeremy-corbyn
The carriage idea is fine; but what about the platform?
Surely it would be better for women to be protected from male gaze by an all encompassing veil, or perhaps only be allowed out with the escort of a male relative?
@YvetteCooperMP: Just got off tube. Majority of passengers women. Why should we have to shut ourselves away to stay safe? Stop #VAWG instead #segregation
The more you think about it, the more stupid it sounds.
The more you think about it, the more you wonder why Corbyn is focusing on this issue - and not on the industrial-scale rape of children in our inner cites...
The more you think about it, the more stupid it sounds.
The more you think about it, the more you wonder why Corbyn is focusing on this issue - and not on the industrial-scale rape of children in our inner cites...
It tells you that he doesn't listen, and he doesn't learn. He is a dogmatist.
Just spare a thought for all of the frustrated pervs in the rest of the train, imagining the girl-girl action going on unhindered up front...
Perhaps each seat should have a free copy of "The Thoughts of Chairman Corbyn" on it. if that doesn't quell the flames of desire I don't know what will.
As an aside, last year I was in the Lion Yard public toilets in Cambridge on a Saturday. It was busy, and after doing the usual male calculation of which urinal was furthest away from anyone else (*), had to settle for one between two late middle-aged men.
As I did the business, I noticed both men were looking at my privates.
Curious, I nipped back a while later to find the two men were still standing at the same urinals.
I did not mention them to the attendant, and always wondered if I could have done. It was more than a little creepy.
The Telegraph reported one man welcoming the change, saying the carriages were so crowded you could not help being pushed into women and he was terrified of being accused of something he did not do. This does not seem to be a problem in Britain
It's not unknown - when my dad did jury service they had a case of alleged indecent assault: the defendant claimed that he'd been jammed up against someone involuntarily. The jury decided that the case for intentional assault was not proven and let him off. How common it is I don't know.
The issues in crowded trains (where a pinch by someone hard to identify may be an issue) and deserted trains (where much more serious assault is the concern) seem to be quite separate.
@YvetteCooperMP: Just got off tube. Majority of passengers women. Why should we have to shut ourselves away to stay safe? Stop #VAWG instead #segregation
Indeed. Why not just implement the whole Saudi solution and have done with it? After all, if this nonsense ever were implemented, would not women who chose not to segregate themselves not be declaring themselves to be fair game for potential attackers?
The carriage idea is fine; but what about the platform?
Surely it would be better for women to be protected from male gaze by an all encompassing veil, or perhaps only be allowed out with the escort of a male relative?
More than likely, somewhere in Westminster this is being given serious consideration!
@YvetteCooperMP: Just got off tube. Majority of passengers women. Why should we have to shut ourselves away to stay safe? Stop #VAWG instead #segregation
Indeed.
It's 2015 not 1815. There's still a gender pay gap and Crackpot Corbyn wants to make society more, not less divided? Insane.
30 years ago on crowded underground some slimeball apparently got too close to her indoors that at the next station he was hit so hard by 5ft 4in <9 stone female that he was knocked onto the platform.
To enhance my political experience still further, it also appears that, as a Londoner, I can vote in the Conservative Primary to choose their Mayoral candidate for the princely sum of 100 pennies.
Golly (as someone on here would say). Mr Corbyn may wish to pay his quid and make his choice.
Only trouble is, having looked at the runners last night, I think I've seen more quality in a Southwell midwinter seller than the group on offer so I might just keep the pound (as someone else once said).
None of the runners and riders from any party inspire. But feel free to vote for any of the tories, I hardly think anyone in the party will really mind. And fortunately the Mayor of London is a non-job. So do not worry.
What about the men who are abused on trains? Why shouldn't they have staff, or are men to be forgotten again?
The answer is probably two-fold:
1) encourage more reporting, and to follow those reports up, regardless of the gender, age or ethnicity of the complainant and offenders. Look for trends and multiple complaints, then have bans when offenders are discovered and convicted. Make this process visible, so the vulnerable can see that their complaints will be listened to. Let people liable to perform such acts know that they might well get caught.
2) pay for more roving BTP on trains. This way, everyone is protected.
Eminently sensible and what applies to women in distress applies to men equally of course. The ticket offices (and I had use of one myself once when I was taken ill on a tube) are places of refuge, safety and privacy for staff and passengers alike. Their removal is a dreadful mistake and one for which I cannot forgive Boris and his acolytes.
Mr. Royale, indeed, I missed that before. Sorry to hear about that, Mr. Eagles.
But don't tell Corbyn, or he may suggest Asian-only carriages.
This will appeal very much to conservative religious Asian families.
Perhaps elderly ladies, and nervous, single or reserved women will also like it. Perhaps pregnant women as well. But will that fill up a whole carriage? And will plenty of other women feel it's patronising but feel a social pressure to sit in 'their' carriage if travelling alone?
What happens when the train is 'full'? Now, there's an unofficial rule that passengers can spill over into 1st class in emergencies, when the train operator or Network Rail cock-up.
Would male commuters be thrown off an overcrowded train if in the women's carriage? And how does this square with the Equality Act?
The more you think about it, the more stupid it sounds. If we're going to have anything it'd be far better to have an extra 'secure' carriage for vulnerable passengers. That can include some women, the elderly, young people who feel threatened, disabled and anyone else who is nervous. Football fans and drunks should be disallowed.
The carriage could have extra CCTV and monitoring by the BTP and regular checks by the guard.
When I moved to London back in the mid 80s, there was a smokers carriage at the back of many of the tube lines. On the Northern line the poor guard was based in this carriage, post KX and the smoking ban, my wife when travelling home late would sit in this carriage.
The idea that women would need to be physically separated from men in order for said men not to intimidate, harass, and/or attack them is a damning indictment on our society. If they have no inherent decency these people should at least fear the legal consequences.
The more you think about it, the more stupid it sounds.
The more you think about it, the more you wonder why Corbyn is focusing on this issue - and not on the industrial-scale rape of children in our inner cites...
As theuniondivvie reminded us earlier, Conservative transport minister Claire Perry made the same suggestion last year. Can the admins please search the archives and tell us if pbTories were so derisive about it back then?
On topic, Senior Republicans need to tell some of these candidates that it is time to throw in the towel. Gilmore, Pataki, Jindal, Perry, Santorum, Graham (only 4% in his home state), Christie and Huckabee all look like no hopers to me.
Good idea – women should be free from sexual harassment and this is the simplest way to help 22% Bad idea – segregation is not a solution in a mixed and liberal country 68%
To enhance my political experience still further, it also appears that, as a Londoner, I can vote in the Conservative Primary to choose their Mayoral candidate for the princely sum of 100 pennies.
Golly (as someone on here would say). Mr Corbyn may wish to pay his quid and make his choice.
Only trouble is, having looked at the runners last night, I think I've seen more quality in a Southwell midwinter seller than the group on offer so I might just keep the pound (as someone else once said).
None of the runners and riders from any party inspire. But feel free to vote for any of the tories, I hardly think anyone in the party will really mind. And fortunately the Mayor of London is a non-job. So do not worry.
It's not as if the Tories have given entryists the opportunity to vote for an eco-loon who has vowed to initiate a tricky by-election if elected...
Mr. Jessop, I think every man makes that calculation.
Fortunately, my hermit-like existence and camelesque bladder have minimised the frequency with which I've had to visit public lavatories.
Mr. Eagles, ah, cheers. I genuinely didn't think of that.
Mr. L, I can't recall but suspect you'll find precious little support. It was a moronic policy then, it's a moronic policy now and in a few days time it will remain a moronic policy.
Edited extra bit: that said, I think Cooper is right to highlight the danger posed by velociraptors.
The ticket offices (and I had use of one myself once when I was taken ill on a tube) are places of refuge, safety and privacy for staff and passengers alike. Their removal is a dreadful mistake and one for which I cannot forgive Boris and his acolytes.
How much extra are you prepared to pay for them, given that with Oyster cards and now contactless credit cards they are no longer needed for, you know, selling tickets?
The Telegraph reported one man welcoming the change, saying the carriages were so crowded you could not help being pushed into women and he was terrified of being accused of something he did not do. This does not seem to be a problem in Britain
It's not unknown - when my dad did jury service they had a case of alleged indecent assault: the defendant claimed that he'd been jammed up against someone involuntarily. The jury decided that the case for intentional assault was not proven and let him off. How common it is I don't know.
The issues in crowded trains (where a pinch by someone hard to identify may be an issue) and deserted trains (where much more serious assault is the concern) seem to be quite separate.
As someone who nearly daily uses a very crowded train, I have to admit I can see how some unintentional frotagging takes place.
Especially when the revenue protection officer (conductor to you and I) or the drinks and food trolley attempt to go from one end of the train to the other.
Under old BR, there were also corridorless smoking carriages - nothing worse than rushing to get on and discovering you were trapped in one and no means of escape until the next stop.
Mr. Royale, indeed, I missed that before. Sorry to hear about that, Mr. Eagles.
But don't tell Corbyn, or he may suggest Asian-only carriages.
This will appeal very much to conservative religious Asian families.
Perhaps elderly ladies, and nervous, single or reserved women will also like it. Perhaps pregnant women as well. But will that fill up a whole carriage? And will plenty of other women feel it's patronising but feel a social pressure to sit in 'their' carriage if travelling alone?
What happens when the train is 'full'? Now, there's an unofficial rule that passengers can spill over into 1st class in emergencies, when the train operator or Network Rail cock-up.
Would male commuters be thrown off an overcrowded train if in the women's carriage? And how does this square with the Equality Act?
The more you think about it, the more stupid it sounds. If we're going to have anything it'd be far better to have an extra 'secure' carriage for vulnerable passengers. That can include some women, the elderly, young people who feel threatened, disabled and anyone else who is nervous. Football fans and drunks should be disallowed.
The carriage could have extra CCTV and monitoring by the BTP and regular checks by the guard.
When I moved to London back in the mid 80s, there was a smokers carriage at the back of many of the tube lines. On the Northern line the poor guard was based in this carriage, post KX and the smoking ban, my wife when travelling home late would sit in this carriage.
Just spare a thought for all of the frustrated pervs in the rest of the train, imagining the girl-girl action going on unhindered up front...
I've gone off lesbians, after this recent encounter.
I noticed two lesbians kissing in the bar and thought it would be a good chance to answer my query.
I asked, "What exactly is it about dicks that you don't like?"
One of them replied, "They ask stupid fucking questions."
You should have used your best chat-up line: "Never mind all that stuff ladies, let me tell you about how the AV system works"
You could have explained how each of the prospective members get ranked according to their preferred positions, and which one comes first, and which ones lose their deposits.
The more you think about it, the more stupid it sounds.
The more you think about it, the more you wonder why Corbyn is focusing on this issue - and not on the industrial-scale rape of children in our inner cites...
As theuniondivvie reminded us earlier, Conservative transport minister Claire Perry made the same suggestion last year. Can the admins please search the archives and tell us if pbTories were so derisive about it back then?
The more you think about it, the more stupid it sounds.
The more you think about it, the more you wonder why Corbyn is focusing on this issue - and not on the industrial-scale rape of children in our inner cites...
As theuniondivvie reminded us earlier, Conservative transport minister Claire Perry made the same suggestion last year. Can the admins please search the archives and tell us if pbTories were so derisive about it back then?
When did the "admins" become your slaves? Search yourself and don't be so lazy.
I don't recall that incident, but Perry came in for a lot of criticism from pbTories for her internet censorship lunacy - as did/does Cameron for his very odd ideas on encryption.
You forget that those on the right are blessed with self-awareness than the left and a greater ability to think independently of a Party.
The more you think about it, the more stupid it sounds.
The more you think about it, the more you wonder why Corbyn is focusing on this issue - and not on the industrial-scale rape of children in our inner cites...
As theuniondivvie reminded us earlier, Conservative transport minister Claire Perry made the same suggestion last year. Can the admins please search the archives and tell us if pbTories were so derisive about it back then?
When did the "admins" become your slaves? Search yourself and don't be so lazy.
I don't recall that incident, but Perry came in for a lot of criticism from pbTories for her internet censorship lunacy - as did/does Cameron for his very odd ideas on encryption.
You forget that those on the right are blessed with self-awareness than the left and a greater ability to think independently of a Party.
I will not have a bad word said against Claire Perry, she is responsible for the greatest tweet ever sent by a politician (possibly the greatest tweet EVER)
What about the men who are abused on trains? Why shouldn't they have staff, or are men to be forgotten again?
The answer is probably two-fold:
1) encourage more reporting, and to follow those reports up, regardless of the gender, age or ethnicity of the complainant and offenders. Look for trends and multiple complaints, then have bans when offenders are discovered and convicted. Make this process visible, so the vulnerable can see that their complaints will be listened to. Let people liable to perform such acts know that they might well get caught.
2) pay for more roving BTP on trains. This way, everyone is protected.
Eminently sensible and what applies to women in distress applies to men equally of course. The ticket offices (and I had use of one myself once when I was taken ill on a tube) are places of refuge, safety and privacy for staff and passengers alike. Their removal is a dreadful mistake and one for which I cannot forgive Boris and his acolytes.
You must be using a different Tube network. In spite of the ticket office closures, I still see plenty of unwell and infirm passengers receiving care and attention from station staff. Presumably there are more available now that they're no longer tied up with ticket sales.
Predictably, the usual suspects have had a jolly good rant at Corbyn's idea of women-only carriages but the fact such carriages exist in a number of countries doesn't make them a bad idea.
That there are times of the day (and especially night) and routes where women may feel uncomfortable travelling alone is an unfortunate truth. ....
You miss the point - the provision of women only carriages in Japan was down to overcrowding - cramming even - not the late night empty carriages.
You should take a look at the countries - predominantly asian - which have women only carriages; mainly it is rush hours and it is in countries which treat women like dirt. Take Japan - as wiki points out -- ''Groping in crowded commuter trains has been a problem in Japan: according to a survey conducted by Tokyo Metropolitan Police and East Japan Railway Company, two-thirds of female passengers in their 20s and 30s reported that they had been groped on trains, and the majority had been victimized frequently. Authorities have been unable to control groping, as trains are too crowded to identify the perpetrators, courts have traditionally been lenient, and victims are often too ashamed to come forward.'' (a Times report). Are we too to be associated with this kind of behaviour? Are you saying this is prevalent in the UK?? There is definitely something strange about the Japanese.
You have to go back to the old 50's style no corridor compartments type BR trains to recall the odd Ladies Only compartment.
Off-topic (although it'd be hard to get further off-topic):
I've just been reading Harvey Proctor's statement. One for the legal eagles: how common is it for a victim to be interviewed by police with a reporter present?
Surely there are certain dangers in this, especially when the reporter works for an organisation investigating those sorts of crimes?
The ticket offices (and I had use of one myself once when I was taken ill on a tube) are places of refuge, safety and privacy for staff and passengers alike. Their removal is a dreadful mistake and one for which I cannot forgive Boris and his acolytes.
How much extra are you prepared to pay for them, given that with Oyster cards and now contactless credit cards they are no longer needed for, you know, selling tickets?
Odd statement to make given there are always massive queues at the windows. I guess people are taking a final look at what customer service looks like.
The more you think about it, the more stupid it sounds.
The more you think about it, the more you wonder why Corbyn is focusing on this issue - and not on the industrial-scale rape of children in our inner cites...
As theuniondivvie reminded us earlier, Conservative transport minister Claire Perry made the same suggestion last year. Can the admins please search the archives and tell us if pbTories were so derisive about it back then?
When did the "admins" become your slaves? Search yourself and don't be so lazy.
I don't recall that incident, but Perry came in for a lot of criticism from pbTories for her internet censorship lunacy - as did/does Cameron for his very odd ideas on encryption.
You forget that those on the right are blessed with self-awareness than the left and a greater ability to think independently of a Party.
I will not have a bad word said against Claire Perry, she is responsible for the greatest tweet ever sent by a politician (possibly the greatest tweet EVER)
Goodho! I pointed out Perry had drawn attention to this rail carriage business myself in a post last night. However it was I think probably the result of a question and was commenting generally on safety. Perry also said she had “come up with some wacky ideas like "three strikes and you’re off".''
As it is an Independent writer (Katie Grant) was quite scathing. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/womenonly-carriages-would-be-an-insult-to-both-sexes-9765258.html ''Perry is on the wrong track altogether by entertaining the possibility that “women-only” carriages could be an acceptable answer to sex attacks on passengers.'' ''It is insulting to both sexes to suggest that women should be shooed into special carriages of their own to protect them from predatory male counterparts who “just can’t help themselves”.''
The carriage suggestion seems to have amused us all.
Just think of all the fun we'd have if Jezza was PM. I'm slowly coming round to being a Jezza fan. He's had thirty odd years as a Labour back bencher (and they've been very odd years), so he must be quite mad by now.
'To enhance my political experience still further, it also appears that, as a Londoner, I can vote in the Conservative Primary to choose their Mayoral candidate for the princely sum of 100 pennies.'
At least you don't have to worry about that with the Lib Dem Mayoral candidate as the party hierarchy has already decided there will only be one candidate,no need to bother consulting their members let alone London voters.
They're discussing the women-only carriages on R5L, and one of the women in favour would, if the genders were reversed, would be accused of utter sexism.
Welcome to Corbyn's misandric world. And I thought Miliband was bad ...
That there are times of the day (and especially night) and routes where women may feel uncomfortable travelling alone is an unfortunate truth. The provision of staffed women-only carriages to provide security and safety on these occasions isn't an inappropriate or silly suggestion but eminently sensible.
There are times of the day and night and routes where some white men may also feel uncomfortable travelling alone. Would the correct response to that to be bring in white-only carriages? Of course not. That would entail the government legitimising the belief that all non-white people are a potential threat, and lead to increased divisiveness in society.
The Telegraph reported one man welcoming the change, saying the carriages were so crowded you could not help being pushed into women and he was terrified of being accused of something he did not do. This does not seem to be a problem in Britain
It's not unknown - when my dad did jury service they had a case of alleged indecent assault: the defendant claimed that he'd been jammed up against someone involuntarily. The jury decided that the case for intentional assault was not proven and let him off. How common it is I don't know.
The issues in crowded trains (where a pinch by someone hard to identify may be an issue) and deserted trains (where much more serious assault is the concern) seem to be quite separate.
As someone who nearly daily uses a very crowded train, I have to admit I can see how some unintentional frotagging takes place.
Especially when the revenue protection officer (conductor to you and I) or the drinks and food trolley attempt to go from one end of the train to the other.
It seems pretty clear from the reports that groping in confined bus and train spaces in Japan is endemic and can bear no comparison to the UK. Quite strange. Where is Edmund in Tokyo when you need him? I draw the attention of all interested lefties to The Independent article I linked to earlier.
The carriage suggestion seems to have amused us all.
Just think of all the fun we'd have if Jezza was PM. I'm slowly coming round to being a Jezza fan. He's had thirty odd years as a Labour back bencher (and they've been very odd years), so he must be quite mad by now.
Comments
Why pay one man to do a job when you can pay two? That's the essence of Jezzanomics
Edited extra bit: Mr. Eagles, where they planning an Italian tour of Hannibal's battlefield victories?
They were planning to play cocks and rubbers (sic) with the strippers.
With that, I will go and do some work in advance of the dreaded start of term next week. Have a good day everyone.
Should be of interest to at least one poster on here.
The smug, arrogant, rancid corpse of Blairite politics need to DIE, DIE, DIE AND DIE AGAIN in British politics. I hope Jezza hangs em with a rope off tower bridge, the lorra them.
Perhaps elderly ladies, and nervous, single or reserved women will also like it. Perhaps pregnant women as well. But will that fill up a whole carriage? And will plenty of other women feel it's patronising but feel a social pressure to sit in 'their' carriage if travelling alone?
What happens when the train is 'full'? Now, there's an unofficial rule that passengers can spill over into 1st class in emergencies, when the train operator or Network Rail cock-up.
Would male commuters be thrown off an overcrowded train if in the women's carriage? And how does this square with the Equality Act?
The more you think about it, the more stupid it sounds. If we're going to have anything it'd be far better to have an extra 'secure' carriage for vulnerable passengers. That can include some women, the elderly, young people who feel threatened, disabled and anyone else who is nervous. Football fans and drunks should be disallowed.
The carriage could have extra CCTV and monitoring by the BTP and regular checks by the guard.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNUtjLzWsAAQcvl.jpg
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/22/donald-trump-wont-win-republican-presidential-nomination
The comparison with Giulani in 2008 is particularly apt (and of course Giulani was not such a total nutjob).
A 9F would do me fine.
http://www.gwsr.com/media/79650/david locke 9.jpg
Just when is Cameron going to get a grip on this?
SNP 79
SLAB 25
SCUP 15
Greens 9
SLID 1
http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/blog/are-snp-about-break-holyrood-voting-system-again
Men are simple, aggressive, dim-witted and threatening apes who women need to be protected against by law for their own good.
Predictably, the usual suspects have had a jolly good rant at Corbyn's idea of women-only carriages but the fact such carriages exist in a number of countries doesn't make them a bad idea.
That there are times of the day (and especially night) and routes where women may feel uncomfortable travelling alone is an unfortunate truth. The provision of staffed women-only carriages to provide security and safety on these occasions isn't an inappropriate or silly suggestion but eminently sensible.
No one is suggesting every train or tube should have a women-only carriage all the time but on occasions, on particular times and on particular routes, such carriages may be very useful.
In the same way, one of the hugely regrettable aspects of the closure of ticket offices at LU stations is that said offices act as a place of refuge and safety for people who are either taken ill or suffer something worse. The offices, accessible only to LU staff, could be used as a waiting area pending the arrival of Police or other services.
However, that dim-witted oaf, the Mayor of London, who doesn't seem to use the tube much himself, sees ticket offices as a) the last bastions of entrenched Union power and b) potential retail outlets for exploitation. The policy to close them is an ill-considered disaster - the one at Waterloo has gone and tourists are left milling round the machines causing queues which interrupt the flow of passengers at the Jubilee Line exits.
Ha, it's always the quiet ones
- It's a terrible message to make females into victims/create special case situations like AWS et al.
- It doesn't address the issue that's cited as the reason to do it.
- It's incredibly patronising.
- And it panders to those who want to segregate females for cultural purposes.
I detest preferential treatment of women, all of it. There's being polite, and then there's pandering. Pandering IMO is the worst aspect of political correctness - it creates victims, entitlement, resentment and divisions.
Maybe it's just my personal forcefield but in 20yrs of commuting - no man has EVER pinched my arse, tried to wank up against me, or anything else I'd be WTF about. I've been more concerned about out of control teens/20s who are plastered and threatening.
The answer is probably two-fold:
1) encourage more reporting, and to follow those reports up, regardless of the gender, age or ethnicity of the complainant and offenders. Look for trends and multiple complaints, then have bans when offenders are discovered and convicted. Make this process visible, so the vulnerable can see that their complaints will be listened to. Let people liable to perform such acts know that they might well get caught.
2) pay for more roving BTP on trains.
This way, everyone is protected.
Get over immigrants, they are not the problem. Corbyn is quite right movements of people e.g.lots of Scots to Corby to work in the steel industry need schools etc.
Golly (as someone on here would say). Mr Corbyn may wish to pay his quid and make his choice.
Only trouble is, having looked at the runners last night, I think I've seen more quality in a Southwell midwinter seller than the group on offer so I might just keep the pound (as someone else once said).
There's something reassuring about Comrade Corbyn - he's so achingly predictable in his views. It's only the gaiety of them that continues to amuse.
It's a fridge magnet manifesto - I'm sure some card will produce a Corbyn Random Policy Generator.
Indeed somebody should start a #sovietisation-of-britain-is-a-likelihood-under-jeremy-corbyn
Surely it would be better for women to be protected from male gaze by an all encompassing veil, or perhaps only be allowed out with the escort of a male relative?
I think we all know the answer to that one...!
Which makes you wonder how bright he is.
Velociraptors attacking women/girls?
I noticed two lesbians kissing in the bar and thought it would be a good chance to answer my query.
I asked, "What exactly is it about dicks that you don't like?"
One of them replied, "They ask stupid fucking questions."
We had Old Labour, New Labour, Brown Labour, Mili Labour.
Now we have Neo Labour.
A far left sect segregating the sexes in transport. Unbelieveable?
No just a sign of things to come in the land of the burkha.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11581329/Senior-Labour-politicians-Liam-Byrne-and-Tom-Watson-attend-segregated-Muslim-rally.html
As I did the business, I noticed both men were looking at my privates.
Curious, I nipped back a while later to find the two men were still standing at the same urinals.
I did not mention them to the attendant, and always wondered if I could have done. It was more than a little creepy.
(*) Or is that just me
The issues in crowded trains (where a pinch by someone hard to identify may be an issue) and deserted trains (where much more serious assault is the concern) seem to be quite separate.
More than likely, somewhere in Westminster this is being given serious consideration!
It's 2015 not 1815. There's still a gender pay gap and Crackpot Corbyn wants to make society more, not less divided? Insane.
Fortunately, my hermit-like existence and camelesque bladder have minimised the frequency with which I've had to visit public lavatories.
Mr. Eagles, ah, cheers. I genuinely didn't think of that.
Mr. L, I can't recall but suspect you'll find precious little support. It was a moronic policy then, it's a moronic policy now and in a few days time it will remain a moronic policy.
Edited extra bit: that said, I think Cooper is right to highlight the danger posed by velociraptors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COt65HZCJaA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frotteurism
It's packed with stories that each could provide a headline! If nothing else, it's kept the Lobby busy for three months. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11824560/Jeremy-Corbyn-attacked-over-women-only-train-segregation-live.html
Especially when the revenue protection officer (conductor to you and I) or the drinks and food trolley attempt to go from one end of the train to the other.
"Never mind all that stuff ladies, let me tell you about how the AV system works"
You could have explained how each of the prospective members get ranked according to their preferred positions, and which one comes first, and which ones lose their deposits.
I don't recall that incident, but Perry came in for a lot of criticism from pbTories for her internet censorship lunacy - as did/does Cameron for his very odd ideas on encryption.
You forget that those on the right are blessed with self-awareness than the left and a greater ability to think independently of a Party.
From election night
https://twitter.com/claire4devizes/status/596544699529297921?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
You should take a look at the countries - predominantly asian - which have women only carriages; mainly it is rush hours and it is in countries which treat women like dirt.
Take Japan - as wiki points out -- ''Groping in crowded commuter trains has been a problem in Japan: according to a survey conducted by Tokyo Metropolitan Police and East Japan Railway Company, two-thirds of female passengers in their 20s and 30s reported that they had been groped on trains, and the majority had been victimized frequently. Authorities have been unable to control groping, as trains are too crowded to identify the perpetrators, courts have traditionally been lenient, and victims are often too ashamed to come forward.'' (a Times report).
Are we too to be associated with this kind of behaviour? Are you saying this is prevalent in the UK??
There is definitely something strange about the Japanese.
You have to go back to the old 50's style no corridor compartments type BR trains to recall the odd Ladies Only compartment.
I've just been reading Harvey Proctor's statement. One for the legal eagles: how common is it for a victim to be interviewed by police with a reporter present?
Surely there are certain dangers in this, especially when the reporter works for an organisation investigating those sorts of crimes?
I pointed out Perry had drawn attention to this rail carriage business myself in a post last night.
However it was I think probably the result of a question and was commenting generally on safety.
Perry also said she had “come up with some wacky ideas like "three strikes and you’re off".''
As it is an Independent writer (Katie Grant) was quite scathing.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/womenonly-carriages-would-be-an-insult-to-both-sexes-9765258.html
''Perry is on the wrong track altogether by entertaining the possibility that “women-only” carriages could be an acceptable answer to sex attacks on passengers.''
''It is insulting to both sexes to suggest that women should be shooed into special carriages of their own to protect them from predatory male counterparts who “just can’t help themselves”.''
Just think of all the fun we'd have if Jezza was PM. I'm slowly coming round to being a Jezza fan. He's had thirty odd years as a Labour back bencher (and they've been very odd years), so he must be quite mad by now.
Elect the nutter! You know it makes sense.
Edit:Isn't Claire Perry being morbid obese-ist?
http://t.co/LOm4lDVNtm http://t.co/hfxyLWIPrG
'To enhance my political experience still further, it also appears that, as a Londoner, I can vote in the Conservative Primary to choose their Mayoral candidate for the princely sum of 100 pennies.'
At least you don't have to worry about that with the Lib Dem Mayoral candidate as the party hierarchy has already decided there will only be one candidate,no need to bother consulting their members let alone London voters.
Welcome to Corbyn's misandric world. And I thought Miliband was bad ...
I draw the attention of all interested lefties to The Independent article I linked to earlier.
http://order-order.com/#:aYqDfxSjDvrTsA
over promoted sycophant of Osborne.
https://madebyfi.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/img_8085.jpg