People are in the mood for a different approach and I think Tories are gloating too soon
If enough are sensible they should be ok - I think it notable Mr Herdson recognises that Corbyn could cause Cameron problems simply by virtue of being different to what he isused to - but it's too early to say if in general the Tories will get complacent. The more certain they think a victory is, the greater the chance they will make a mistake.
Recidivist, Conservatives are concerned with families not just individuals. Families are the basis of a successful society, nurturing the young, storing up wealth for the future, equipping the next generation to succeed and comforting the old. However, the individuals that emerge should have to compete with others, often from entirely different backgrounds. If you wanted complete equality for individuals you would need to take them from their families when born. Totalitarian regimes sometimes dream of doing this.
We have a series of treats to look forward to and which Corbynites such as Nick Palmer can enjoy as their unspun, straight-talking hero triumphs: The first Andrew Neil interview. The first PMQ The first Conference speech as leader The first Remembrance Sunday The first Budget response The 100 year anniversary of the Easter Rising And so on.
It should be invigorating stuff as The British public learns more about the man the Labour party believes should be the next Prime Minister.
I can see him doing ok on about half of those.
Daily Mail headline on the day after Remembrance Sunday:
Big photo of Corbyn looking solemn. Screaming headline "HYPOCRITE!". A few choice quotes from Corbyn's past down the side of the page.
Ken Livingstone was vilified by the MSM as SO is doing now. Blair tried everything possible to stop him having the chance to become London Mayor.
I at the time thought Ken Livingstone would not be a good choice. However he did some good things for London between 2000 to2008. I was wrong and I could be about Corbyn . These are difficult times to predict.
Although towards the end his true character reasserted itself
Didn't he tell a British-born, but Jewish photographer for the Evening Standard to "F**k off back to Israel!" or something?
OT: I've made it onto a course for Mathematics and Computer Science (MSci) at Birmingham University. Despite obviously disliking the tuition fees I recognise their necessity and am grateful to the Tories for lifting the student number cap. If Labour get back into power in 2020 (in some crazy parallel universe) I'll be burdened with higher taxes and will still have the student debt burden. Worst of both worlds. Student debt made me into a conservative.
What enemies of the UK has he stood shoulder to shoulder since the end of hostilities in Northern Ireland nearly two decades ago? (I dispute that he stood shoulder to shoulder with the IRA anyway, but accepting your definitions for now.)
Do you count the dictator Hugo Chavez?
Oooh, er! Let's see now, Thatcher was friends with Pinochet, Ceaușescu and many others that both you and I wouldn't like to live under. Blair was friendly with GWB and Muammar Gaddafi both of whom some people consider war criminals and guilty of crimes against humanity.
Some times, politicians have to befriend people to influence some sort of dialogue, whether they think the person is insane, evil or stupid is beside the point.
The Labour leadership candidate has set out his position on ties, hats and scarves, insisting hats are brilliant, scarves are useful and ties are fascist.
He said: “They’re silky chains of oppression, used by oligarchs to enslave you. None of you like wearing ties, but you do it because of capitalism. I refuse to be part of the machine.”
Corbyn added: “You can make me wear a tie, but you better be comfortable playing dress-up with a corpse.”
But the left-winger’s leadership rivals warned that Corbyn would be tie-less at key events such as prime minister’s questions and Remembrance Sunday at the Cenotaph.
Andy Burnham said: “It would leave hard-working families confused and angry and would cause these important events to be cancelled.
“I wear a tie. It’s a red one which shows that I love the NHS, but also understand the world of business and offices.”
We have a series of treats to look forward to and which Corbynites such as Nick Palmer can enjoy as their unspun, straight-talking hero triumphs: The first Andrew Neil interview. The first PMQ The first Conference speech as leader The first Remembrance Sunday The first Budget response The 100 year anniversary of the Easter Rising And so on.
It should be invigorating stuff as The British public learns more about the man the Labour party believes should be the next Prime Minister.
I can see him doing ok on about half of those.
Daily Mail headline on the day after Remembrance Sunday:
Big photo of Corbyn looking solemn. Screaming headline "HYPOCRITE!". A few choice quotes from Corbyn's past down the side of the page.
People are in the mood for a different approach and I think Tories are gloating too soon
If enough are sensible they should be ok - I think it notable Mr Herdson recognises that Corbyn could cause Cameron problems simply by virtue of being different to what he isused to - but it's too early to say if in general the Tories will get complacent. The more certain they think a victory is, the greater the chance they will make a mistake.
If millions of voters in marginal seat's across England refused to vote for Ed Miliband they are not going to vote for Jeremy Corbyn in a million years.
What's far more likely is that millions of Labour voters who stuck with Labour despite Ed Miliband will conclude they are being taken for fools by the Labour Party and abandon the party leading to the kind of collapse across England and Wales that we saw in Scotland.
Labour is playing a very, very dangerous game with the voters and frankly I think the party has literally lost the plot (Dr Palmer included I'm afraid to say)
Got to agree with you there. I've Labour friends who miss Gordon's clunking fist - they are appalled at Comrade Corbyn. There's simply no comparison between them. EdM was just a lay-by stop along the way.
People are in the mood for a different approach and I think Tories are gloating too soon
If enough are sensible they should be ok - I think it notable Mr Herdson recognises that Corbyn could cause Cameron problems simply by virtue of being different to what he isused to - but it's too early to say if in general the Tories will get complacent. The more certain they think a victory is, the greater the chance they will make a mistake.
If millions of voters in marginal seat's across England refused to vote for Ed Miliband they are not going to vote for Jeremy Corbyn in a million years.
What's far more likely is that millions of Labour voters who stuck with Labour despite Ed Miliband will conclude they are being taken for fools by the Labour Party and abandon the party leading to the kind of collapse across England and Wales that we saw in Scotland.
Labour is playing a very, very dangerous game with the voters and frankly I think the party has literally lost the plot (Dr Palmer included I'm afraid to say)
Miss Plato/Mr. Gin, on the other hand, I know a sensible chap from Scotland who posted elsewhere that he was voting for Corbyn because he was anti-nuclear, and this chap wants to be able to vote for a socialist who's against Trident whilst still being a unionist.
Of course, Scotland's different to the rest of the UK. Fighting the SNP for the mantle of socialism is a different bag of monkeys to battling the Conservatives for high office.
People are in the mood for a different approach and I think Tories are gloating too soon
If enough are sensible they should be ok - I think it notable Mr Herdson recognises that Corbyn could cause Cameron problems simply by virtue of being different to what he isused to - but it's too early to say if in general the Tories will get complacent. The more certain they think a victory is, the greater the chance they will make a mistake.
If millions of voters in marginal seat's across England refused to vote for Ed Miliband they are not going to vote for Jeremy Corbyn in a million years.
What's far more likely is that millions of Labour voters who stuck with Labour despite Ed Miliband will conclude they are being taken for fools by the Labour Party and abandon the party leading to the kind of collapse across England and Wales that we saw in Scotland.
Labour is playing a very, very dangerous game with the voters and frankly I think the party has literally lost the plot (Dr Palmer included I'm afraid to say)
It's going to be tremendously fun to watch though.
Plus I think parliament would have been very dull with Yvette or Andy in as LOTO for the next 5 years.
The plots and scheming going on behind Jezza's back with a PLP and membership at war with one another will require bundles of popcorn.
Corbyn will fall apart soon after winning because his lala land brand of politics never has and never will stand up to scrutiny, it's nothing to do with smearing. Equality and freedom are incompatible, the socialist desire for equality (however they wish to define it) can only be at the expense of freedom and we value that above all else.
It's odd that he's got to his age without that dawning on him, we all gravitate to where we're comfortable, I suspect that as a veggie teetotal he spends the majority of his time with likeminded people. There's clearly plenty like him within labour happy to have him as labour but the country at large won't accept it. Regardless of what you think of the new labour sycophants, they know it too.
"Equality and freedom are incompatible"
That sounds like rubbish to me. Care to explain?
It's a logical construct: if you desire absolute equality of outcome, then you can only do so by controlling outcomes and hence restricting the freedom to select other outcomes.
It's why Conservatives are so keen on equality of opportunity rather than outcome: the most talented should be able to succeed without any artificial boundaries (race, sex, etc) being put in their way; this is why access to education is so critical.
Of course, in theory, any action to narrow inequality (I'm thinking of redistributive tax policies, for instance) is a restriction of freedom, but most of us live in the real world rather than being Paulistas and accept that there is a trade off between unadulterated freedom and a stable and harmonious society
If Conservatives are in favour of equality of opportunity shouldn't they be in favour of high death duties? Also shouldn't they be opposed to private education? Come to that shouldn't they support free tertiary education? In fact, to ensure equality of opportunity would require quite extensive state intervention. That doesn't sound at all like the kinds of the policies advocate or implement.
I can't speak for Conservatives, but:
High death duties upend the relationship between the state and the individual. Property belongs to the individual, not to the state: it's already been taxed and income generated from it is taxed again
Private education, in an ideal world, would not need to exist (although there will almost be a demand for a small part of it - Eton for example). But I'd rather see state education improved to such a level that there is no demand for private education
Tertiary education should be paid for - it is an investment by an individual in themselves. But there should be extensive scholarships so that the most talented can always afford it
Labour needs to learn the lesson for the Conservatives: rig the leadership election process to tightly limit members ability to vote, pretend you're moderate, then push a bunch of divisive policies onto the public when you're in charge.
That said, the press would never let the left get away with such shameless policies as introducing unaffordable tax-cuts and benefit increases while claiming the necessity for cutting the national debt and austerity.
People are in the mood for a different approach and I think Tories are gloating too soon
If enough are sensible they should be ok - I think it notable Mr Herdson recognises that Corbyn could cause Cameron problems simply by virtue of being different to what he isused to - but it's too early to say if in general the Tories will get complacent. The more certain they think a victory is, the greater the chance they will make a mistake.
Labour is playing a very, very dangerous game with the voters
This is, I think, quite true. It could end up being true that this is the right time and moment for a Corbyn like leader to resonate with the public, circumstances could well conspire to make a new, worse Tory leader and the policies that currently are working, not resonate with the public. All of that could be true.
But it is pretty darn risky to bet the house on requiring a sea change in the electorate's thinking, rather than such a change merely helping it along. A bold move from Labour, no question.
What enemies of the UK has he stood shoulder to shoulder since the end of hostilities in Northern Ireland nearly two decades ago? (I dispute that he stood shoulder to shoulder with the IRA anyway, but accepting your definitions for now.)
Do you count the dictator Hugo Chavez?
Oooh, er! Let's see now, Thatcher was friends with Pinochet, Ceaușescu and many others that both you and I wouldn't like to live under. Blair was friendly with GWB and Muammar Gaddafi both of whom some people consider war criminals and guilty of crimes against humanity.
Some times, politicians have to befriend people to influence some sort of dialogue, whether they think the person is insane, evil or stupid is beside the point.
Miss Plato/Mr. Gin, on the other hand, I know a sensible chap from Scotland who posted elsewhere that he was voting for Corbyn because he was anti-nuclear, and this chap wants to be able to vote for a socialist who's against Trident whilst still being a unionist.
Of course, Scotland's different to the rest of the UK. Fighting the SNP for the mantle of socialism is a different bag of monkeys to battling the Conservatives for high office.
I suppose the only good thing you can say about Corbyn is that he might win some seats back for Labour in Scotland... But I suspect that gain will easily be off-set by the collapse that could take place across England and Wales.
Ken Livingstone was vilified by the MSM as SO is doing now. Blair tried everything possible to stop him having the chance to become London Mayor.
I at the time thought Ken Livingstone would not be a good choice. However he did some good things for London between 2000 to2008. I was wrong and I could be about Corbyn . These are difficult times to predict.
Although towards the end his true character reasserted itself
Didn't he tell a British-born, but Jewish photographer for the Evening Standard to "F**k off back to Israel!" or something?
True Charles.
But my main point is that Blair who I supported, was wrong in 2000, and so were most of the MSM political commentators about Livingstone as was I. My daughter lives in London and London is a better place because of Livingstone 2000 to 2008 . His speech to the country and London after 7/7 was one of the best I have heard.
It should be invigorating stuff as The British public learns more about the man the Labour party believes should be the next Prime Minister.
Tbh I can't see what all the fuss was about with Foot's jacket. Indeed the Queen mother noted it was a sensible enough coat...
Corbyn OTOH is likely to be wearing a white poppy as he is a pacifist :P
The Foot story is a myth. It was a proper coat, not a donkey jacket.
I don't think that Corbyn will be as bad at these things as many people might think. He seems a remarkable calm person who will take these duties seriously.
He has worn a white (peace pledge union) poppy as well as a red one on previous remembrance commemorations. Not unreasonable in my view. The PPU explains and sells its white poppies here:
You think a pacifist organisation trying to hijack the Royal British Legion's poppy memorial to push a political agenda is not unreasonable?
The traditional poppy isn't about militarism or pacifism it is about both remembering those who lost their lives in war and aiding those who've served (or their families) are are affected by it.
That's the way I see it as well. The problem with the white poppy is, some of those who wear it, for the reason they claim, are implicitly criticising those who don't, as though the red poppy is glorifying war or militarism. Maybe it did once, IDK, but it certainly doesn't now, so another type seems unnecessary as I certainly remember those military and civilian who lost their lives and hope to see similar loss avoided, unless one is making a political statement as intentionally or not they are saying those who wear the red one are not thinking those things. But I'll save that pet peeve for later in the year.
The red poppy was never about glorifying war. When the first memorials were built and the poppy appeal started in the early 20's memories were very clear about where and why the poppies grew so thickly. The left need their faux white poppy of appeasement and surrender to justify their bitter and twisted view of the world.
OT: I've made it onto a course for Mathematics and Computer Science (MSci) at Birmingham University. Despite obviously disliking the tuition fees I recognise their necessity and am grateful to the Tories for lifting the student number cap. If Labour get back into power in 2020 (in some crazy parallel universe) I'll be burdened with higher taxes and will still have the student debt burden. Worst of both worlds. Student debt made me into a conservative.
Jezza has promised to end tuition fees and wipeout existing student debt. You may want to reconsider your vote!
If you work abroad you don't repay any tuition fees.
So doctors with five years worth of tuition fees are heavily incentivised to move abroad eg Australia and avoid repaying the fees.
The right believes that needs to be "equality of opportunity" to the extent that the state should not do anything about it and inequality will magically fix itself.
So, essentially, they don't really believe in "equality of opportunity" in way that's remotely meaningful.
Cameron won a leadership contest based on a vote of the membership, then won two elections. That's democracy.
The Conservative leadership election process is rigged to ensure the members get little real say or choice between candidates, with the MPs pretty much making all the decisions based on backdoor conversations. Labour need to do the same.
If Labour used the Conservative's leadership election process then it would be a two-way vote between Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper.
Cameron won a leadership contest based on a vote of the membership, then won two elections. That's democracy.
The Conservative leadership election process is rigged to ensure the members get little real say or choice between candidates. Labour needs to do the same.
They did - that was the point of the 35MP nomination limit, to ensure any leadership candidate presented to the party was acceptable and backed by sufficient levels of parliamentary support. They just then ignored that, as they decided (or some decided) that a broad debate was more important than screening the candidates to put to the membership.
Miss Plato/Mr. Gin, on the other hand, I know a sensible chap from Scotland who posted elsewhere that he was voting for Corbyn because he was anti-nuclear, and this chap wants to be able to vote for a socialist who's against Trident whilst still being a unionist.
Of course, Scotland's different to the rest of the UK. Fighting the SNP for the mantle of socialism is a different bag of monkeys to battling the Conservatives for high office.
I suppose the only good thing you can say about Corbyn is that he might win some seats back for Labour in Scotland... But I suspect that gain will easily be off-set by the collapse that could take place across England and Wales.
Many people in England won't vote Labour because of the threat that they will have to form a coalition with SNP.
By Corbyn winning back Scotland from the SNP he would also win back those voters in England who were no longer worried about the SNP coalition.
Cameron won a leadership contest based on a vote of the membership, then won two elections. That's democracy.
The Conservative leadership election process is rigged to ensure the members get little real say or choice between candidates. Labour needs to do the same.
They did - that was the point of the 35MP nomination limit, to ensure any leadership candidate presented to the party was acceptable and backed by sufficient levels of parliamentary support. They just then ignored that, as they decided (or some decided) that a broad debate was more important than screening the candidates to put to the membership.
Not to anywhere near the same degree. 15% of MPs isn't that much.
OT: I've made it onto a course for Mathematics and Computer Science (MSci) at Birmingham University. Despite obviously disliking the tuition fees I recognise their necessity and am grateful to the Tories for lifting the student number cap. If Labour get back into power in 2020 (in some crazy parallel universe) I'll be burdened with higher taxes and will still have the student debt burden. Worst of both worlds. Student debt made me into a conservative.
Jezza has promised to end tuition fees and wipeout existing student debt. You may want to reconsider your vote!
If you work abroad you don't repay any tuition fees. So doctors with five years worth of tuition fees are heavily incentivised to move abroad eg Australia and avoid repaying the fees.
Oh really? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/9287346/Student-loan-could-land-you-in-court-if-you-move-overseas.html ''Moving overseas to escape student debt might seem like a sure-fire way to avoid repayments but borrowers could be landed with fines, or even court proceedings, if they don’t keep in touch with the Student Loans Company. There’s a common misconception among borrowers that quitting Britain will put an end to loan repayments but buried in the terms and conditions of the loan agreement are overseas repayment schedules. In some cases living abroad can even increase what you pay.''
People are in the mood for a different approach and I think Tories are gloating too soon
If enough are sensible they should be ok - I think it notable Mr Herdson recognises that Corbyn could cause Cameron problems simply by virtue of being different to what he isused to - but it's too early to say if in general the Tories will get complacent. The more certain they think a victory is, the greater the chance they will make a mistake.
If millions of voters in marginal seat's across England refused to vote for Ed Miliband they are not going to vote for Jeremy Corbyn in a million years.
What's far more likely is that millions of Labour voters who stuck with Labour despite Ed Miliband will conclude they are being taken for fools by the Labour Party and abandon the party leading to the kind of collapse across England and Wales that we saw in Scotland.
Labour is playing a very, very dangerous game with the voters and frankly I think the party has literally lost the plot (Dr Palmer included I'm afraid to say)
Consider one small group of Labour supporters. The Methodists. By and large traditional Labour supporters, (Paul Flowers, disgraced head of Co-Op Banks was a Methodist Minister).
There is no way any of them could in conscience associate with a man who has anti semitic links such as Corbyn.
Miss Plato/Mr. Gin, on the other hand, I know a sensible chap from Scotland who posted elsewhere that he was voting for Corbyn because he was anti-nuclear, and this chap wants to be able to vote for a socialist who's against Trident whilst still being a unionist.
Of course, Scotland's different to the rest of the UK. Fighting the SNP for the mantle of socialism is a different bag of monkeys to battling the Conservatives for high office.
I suppose the only good thing you can say about Corbyn is that he might win some seats back for Labour in Scotland... But I suspect that gain will easily be off-set by the collapse that could take place across England and Wales.
Many people in England won't vote Labour because of the threat that they will have to form a coalition with SNP.
By Corbyn winning back Scotland from the SNP he would also win back those voters in England who were no longer worried about the SNP coalition.
It's unlikely he'll win enough seats from the SNP to take a Lab/SNP pact of the table, especially given the number of seat's Labour also has to win in England to form a majority.
I can't actually believe we're sitting here seriously talking about Jeremy Corbyn being a serious politician/prospect for government.
Miss Plato/Mr. Gin, on the other hand, I know a sensible chap from Scotland who posted elsewhere that he was voting for Corbyn because he was anti-nuclear, and this chap wants to be able to vote for a socialist who's against Trident whilst still being a unionist.
Of course, Scotland's different to the rest of the UK. Fighting the SNP for the mantle of socialism is a different bag of monkeys to battling the Conservatives for high office.
Er! Mr Dancer, there are many people in Scotland who can remember the Tories here fighting like a load of ferrets in a sack. Which is probably the main reason why they have become virtually extinct as a species around here.
Forsyth and his cronies agin Lang, Rifkind et al the members of the Edinburgh Club. Not an edifying site. I can still remember seeing Rifkind walking away from his constituency office during the "troubles" and he definitely was not a happy bunny.
Cameron won a leadership contest based on a vote of the membership, then won two elections. That's democracy.
The Conservative leadership election process is rigged to ensure the members get little real say or choice between candidates. Labour needs to do the same.
They did - that was the point of the 35MP nomination limit, to ensure any leadership candidate presented to the party was acceptable and backed by sufficient levels of parliamentary support. They just then ignored that, as they decided (or some decided) that a broad debate was more important than screening the candidates to put to the membership.
Not to anywhere near the same degree. 15% of MPs isn't that much.
Granted, but it seems sufficient to week out any members of the awkward squad. Corbyn wasn't getting anywhere near that without being nominated by people who don't support him, and Abbott did even worse, and only got to the level by being explicitly gifted nominations purely on the basis of her gender. The Tory method of only 2 nominations but then voted upon by the MPs to whittle them down to the final 2 candidates in theory allows crazy people to put themselves forward very easily, but I suppose in practice it would be not worth the trouble since you know you won't get to the final 2, or even close to it, if you are a member of the awkward squad.
People are in the mood for a different approach and I think Tories are gloating too soon
If enough are sensible they should be ok - I think it notable Mr Herdson recognises that Corbyn could cause Cameron problems simply by virtue of being different to what he isused to - but it's too early to say if in general the Tories will get complacent. The more certain they think a victory is, the greater the chance they will make a mistake.
If millions of voters in marginal seat's across England refused to vote for Ed Miliband they are not going to vote for Jeremy Corbyn in a million years.
What's far more likely is that millions of Labour voters who stuck with Labour despite Ed Miliband will conclude they are being taken for fools by the Labour Party and abandon the party leading to the kind of collapse across England and Wales that we saw in Scotland.
Labour is playing a very, very dangerous game with the voters and frankly I think the party has literally lost the plot (Dr Palmer included I'm afraid to say)
It's going to be tremendously fun to watch though.
Plus I think parliament would have been very dull with Yvette or Andy in as LOTO for the next 5 years.
The plots and scheming going on behind Jezza's back with a PLP and membership at war with one another will require bundles of popcorn.
As Mr. Yeodethur is not here Mr. Flaming Picky will have to do duty as PB's pendant for the time being, and he says:
You cannot bundle popcorn. The essence of a bundle is that it a collection of things that are tied or wrapped together. One cannot, at least in any meaningful sense, tie bits of popcorn together.
OT: I've made it onto a course for Mathematics and Computer Science (MSci) at Birmingham University. Despite obviously disliking the tuition fees I recognise their necessity and am grateful to the Tories for lifting the student number cap. If Labour get back into power in 2020 (in some crazy parallel universe) I'll be burdened with higher taxes and will still have the student debt burden. Worst of both worlds. Student debt made me into a conservative.
Jezza has promised to end tuition fees and wipeout existing student debt. You may want to reconsider your vote!
If you work abroad you don't repay any tuition fees.
So doctors with five years worth of tuition fees are heavily incentivised to move abroad eg Australia and avoid repaying the fees.
From my own experience, I can say this is definitely not the case.
People are in the mood for a different approach and I think Tories are gloating too soon
If enough are sensible they should be ok - I think it notable Mr Herdson recognises that Corbyn could cause Cameron problems simply by virtue of being different to what he isused to - but it's too early to say if in general the Tories will get complacent. The more certain they think a victory is, the greater the chance they will make a mistake.
If millions of voters in marginal seat's across England refused to vote for Ed Miliband they are not going to vote for Jeremy Corbyn in a million years.
What's far more likely is that millions of Labour voters who stuck with Labour despite Ed Miliband will conclude they are being taken for fools by the Labour Party and abandon the party leading to the kind of collapse across England and Wales that we saw in Scotland.
Labour is playing a very, very dangerous game with the voters and frankly I think the party has literally lost the plot (Dr Palmer included I'm afraid to say)
It's going to be tremendously fun to watch though.
Plus I think parliament would have been very dull with Yvette or Andy in as LOTO for the next 5 years.
The plots and scheming going on behind Jezza's back with a PLP and membership at war with one another will require bundles of popcorn.
As Mr. Yeodethur is not here Mr. Flaming Picky will have to do duty as PB's pendant for the time being, and he says:
You cannot bundle popcorn. The essence of a bundle is that it a collection of things that are tied or wrapped together. One cannot, at least in any meaningful sense, tie bits of popcorn together.
Cameron won a leadership contest based on a vote of the membership, then won two elections. That's democracy.
The Conservative leadership election process is rigged to ensure the members get little real say or choice between candidates. Labour needs to do the same.
They did - that was the point of the 35MP nomination limit, to ensure any leadership candidate presented to the party was acceptable and backed by sufficient levels of parliamentary support. They just then ignored that, as they decided (or some decided) that a broad debate was more important than screening the candidates to put to the membership.
Not to anywhere near the same degree. 15% of MPs isn't that much.
Granted, but it seems sufficient to week out any members of the awkward squad. Corbyn wasn't getting anywhere near that without being nominated by people who don't support him, and Abbott did even worse, and only got to the level by being explicitly gifted nominations purely on the basis of her gender. The Tory method of only 2 nominations but then voted upon by the MPs to whittle them down to the final 2 candidates in theory allows crazy people to put themselves forward very easily, but I suppose in practice it would be not worth the trouble since you know you won't get to the final 2, or even close to it, if you are a member of the awkward squad.
Wow, he punches well above his weight in every case!
Indeed!
Although that reminds me of one of the most bizarre Ed M 'attacks' during the GE - "Have a look at this list of accomplished, intelligent, attractive women who all went out with Ed M; what a weirdo he is", or that felt like the gist at any rate.
Wow, he punches well above his weight in every case!
''When a notebook was mislaid by a member of the Whips' Office in 2002, Mr Corbyn was reportedly seen to have been described in it as 'Jeremy Cor Bin-Laden'. Thats a labour whips note book! Everything about Corbyn stinks. What a shambles Labour is...
Corbyn will fall apart soon after winning because his lala land brand of politics never has and never will stand up to scrutiny, it's nothing to do with smearing. Equality and freedom are incompatible, the socialist desire for equality (however they wish to define it) can only be at the expense of freedom and we value that above all else.
It's odd that he's got to his age without that dawning on him, we all gravitate to where we're comfortable, I suspect that as a veggie teetotal he spends the majority of his time with likeminded people. There's clearly plenty like him within labour happy to have him as labour but the country at large won't accept it. Regardless of what you think of the new labour sycophants, they know it too.
"Equality and freedom are incompatible"
That sounds like rubbish to me. Care to explain?
Yep, the only way to achieve equality is by curtailing the freedom of individuals. You might want everybody to live in a 3 bedroom house, but to do that you have to stop people living in 4 bedroom houses.
If you cannot see the myriad flaws in your 'argument' then there's little hope for you.
Well I'm here for a while so I'm happy for you to enlighten me, I don't even mind if you continue to patronise me.
Sorry about the delay, had to do my bit for equality by feeding my son. During which he discovered how to open the toothpaste tube and spray the contents over the living room carpet ...
If you think that was patronising, you evidently haven't been following PB for long!
Why were you feeding him toothpaste? You sure you got this Dad thing down straight?
A good dad always brushes his son's teeth after a meal. A better dad might not give said son the toothpaste tube to play with ...
I am amazed at how some in the Labour party are trying to put a brave face on Corbyn being Leader. Some are clearly delusional. But, it all looks good for the right leaning folk when Labour people are in such a state. Be it despair or blind optimism.
It should be invigorating stuff as The British public learns more about the man the Labour party believes should be the next Prime Minister.
Tbh I can't see what all the fuss was about with Foot's jacket. Indeed the Queen mother noted it was a sensible enough coat...
Corbyn OTOH is likely to be wearing a white poppy as he is a pacifist :P
The Foot story is a myth. It was a proper coat, not a donkey jacket.
I don't think that Corbyn will be as bad at these things as many people might think. He seems a remarkable calm person who will take these duties seriously.
He has worn a white (peace pledge union) poppy as well as a red one on previous remembrance commemorations. Not unreasonable in my view. The PPU explains and sells its white poppies here:
You think a pacifist organisation trying to hijack the Royal British Legion's poppy memorial to push a political agenda is not unreasonable?
The traditional poppy isn't about militarism or pacifism it is about both remembering those who lost their lives in war and aiding those who've served (or their families) are are affected by it.
That's the way I see it as well. The problem with the white poppy is, some of those who wear it, for the reason they claim, are implicitly criticising those who don't, as though the red poppy is glorifying war or militarism. Maybe it did once, IDK, but it certainly doesn't now, so another type seems unnecessary as I certainly remember those military and civilian who lost their lives and hope to see similar loss avoided, unless one is making a political statement as intentionally or not they are saying those who wear the red one are not thinking those things. But I'll save that pet peeve for later in the year.
The red poppy was never about glorifying war. When the first memorials were built and the poppy appeal started in the early 20's memories were very clear about where and why the poppies grew so thickly. The left need their faux white poppy of appeasement and surrender to justify their bitter and twisted view of the world.
Spot on, Mr. Path.
Hmmm, that is twice in as many days that I have found myself fully agreeing with, indeed actually applauding, your posts. I might have to go and lie down.
I am amazed at how some in the Labour party are trying to put a brave face on Corbyn being Leader. Some are clearly delusional. But, it all looks good for the right leaning folk when Labour people are in such a state. Be it despair or blind optimism.
Cameron won a leadership contest based on a vote of the membership, then won two elections. That's democracy.
The Conservative leadership election process is rigged to ensure the members get little real say or choice between candidates. Labour needs to do the same.
They did - that was the point of the 35MP nomination limit, to ensure any leadership candidate presented to the party was acceptable and backed by sufficient levels of parliamentary support. They just then ignored that, as they decided (or some decided) that a broad debate was more important than screening the candidates to put to the membership.
Not to anywhere near the same degree. 15% of MPs isn't that much.
Granted, but it seems sufficient to week out any members of the awkward squad. Corbyn wasn't getting anywhere near that without being nominated by people who don't support him, and Abbott did even worse, and only got to the level by being explicitly gifted nominations purely on the basis of her gender. The Tory method of only 2 nominations but then voted upon by the MPs to whittle them down to the final 2 candidates in theory allows crazy people to put themselves forward very easily, but I suppose in practice it would be not worth the trouble since you know you won't get to the final 2, or even close to it, if you are a member of the awkward squad.
Miss Plato/Mr. Gin, on the other hand, I know a sensible chap from Scotland who posted elsewhere that he was voting for Corbyn because he was anti-nuclear, and this chap wants to be able to vote for a socialist who's against Trident whilst still being a unionist.
Of course, Scotland's different to the rest of the UK. Fighting the SNP for the mantle of socialism is a different bag of monkeys to battling the Conservatives for high office.
I suppose the only good thing you can say about Corbyn is that he might win some seats back for Labour in Scotland... But I suspect that gain will easily be off-set by the collapse that could take place across England and Wales.
Many people in England won't vote Labour because of the threat that they will have to form a coalition with SNP.
By Corbyn winning back Scotland from the SNP he would also win back those voters in England who were no longer worried about the SNP coalition.
It's unlikely he'll win enough seats from the SNP to take a Lab/SNP pact of the table, especially given the number of seat's Labour also has to win in England to form a majority.
I can't actually believe we're sitting here seriously talking about Jeremy Corbyn being a serious politician/prospect for government.
It's insane. Madness.
Being willing to go into coalition with SNP would actually increase the likelihood of the SNP maintaining their seats. And if as seems likely to me Labour put up a swathe of loopy lefty candidates in Scotland, prompted by Trade Union backing probably, then really it would not matter much who wins what seat as far as centre leaning voters in England are concerned.
Scientific polls all have Corbyn polling better in Scotland than anywhere else in the UK apart from London Miliband polled dreadfully in Scotland behind even Cameron
Unless you have a Tardis there aren't any scientific polls showing how Leader of the Opposition Corbyn is performing since he isn't Leader of the Opposition yet.
Polls of the Labour leadership so far all show only Scotland and London have voters saying they would be more likely to vote Labour under Corbyn
Ken Livingstone was vilified by the MSM as SO is doing now. Blair tried everything possible to stop him having the chance to become London Mayor.
I at the time thought Ken Livingstone would not be a good choice. However he did some good things for London between 2000 to2008. I was wrong and I could be about Corbyn . These are difficult times to predict.
Although towards the end his true character reasserted itself
Didn't he tell a British-born, but Jewish photographer for the Evening Standard to "F**k off back to Israel!" or something?
Ken will be pleased with the changes brought about by Eric Pickles. Now only a court of law can remove you from office following a conviction of the necessary severity that disqualifies you from holding the office.
I am amazed at how some in the Labour party are trying to put a brave face on Corbyn being Leader. Some are clearly delusional. But, it all looks good for the right leaning folk when Labour people are in such a state. Be it despair or blind optimism.
True. A classic example is NickP. Clearly a very intelligent man. But one who has almost no understanding on what a good Leader for his party looks like. Another example is the bigJOwls chap. Apparently held a senior post in the NHS. Yet thought the fact that EdM was regarded as cr*p by most voters would still lead to a Labour Govt. Both of these are happy about a Corbyn term as Leader! Neither chaps are prepared to look at hard research into why they lost the GE and the conclusions to be drawn from it. Little point in debating them on it as they seem to be in this blissful space of socialist magic money trees.... Still both of their posts on here are very welcome as I can read and conclude that we have in the Labour party the politically blind led by the politically blind.
My reservations about Corbyn still exist even though I'll vote for him.
Nick, Sorry but I've got ask;
Have you gone mad?
The answer to your question is possibly yes.
There is a bit in "Cabin In The Woods" where they pump stupid gas into the cabin to make the teenagers split up and go to different parts of the house, despite the fact that it is a conspicuously stupid thing to do. This act of self-immolation by Labour can be interpreted as a sacrifice to the Great Old Ones of Socialism.
If you want to know what people are really like, watch them when faced with a choice when all the options are unacceptable. Labour are in this unenviable position and are not entirely rational at the moment.
Miss Plato/Mr. Gin, on the other hand, I know a sensible chap from Scotland who posted elsewhere that he was voting for Corbyn because he was anti-nuclear, and this chap wants to be able to vote for a socialist who's against Trident whilst still being a unionist.
Of course, Scotland's different to the rest of the UK. Fighting the SNP for the mantle of socialism is a different bag of monkeys to battling the Conservatives for high office.
I suppose the only good thing you can say about Corbyn is that he might win some seats back for Labour in Scotland... But I suspect that gain will easily be off-set by the collapse that could take place across England and Wales.
Many people in England won't vote Labour because of the threat that they will have to form a coalition with SNP.
By Corbyn winning back Scotland from the SNP he would also win back those voters in England who were no longer worried about the SNP coalition.
Unless Corbyn stands, largely, for the same things that were so off-putting about the SNP.
Corbyn will fall apart soon after winning because his lala land brand of politics never has and never will stand up to scrutiny, it's nothing to do with smearing. Equality and freedom are incompatible, the socialist desire for equality (however they wish to define it) can only be at the expense of freedom and we value that above all else.
It's odd that he's got to his age without that dawning on him, we all gravitate to where we're comfortable, I suspect that as a veggie teetotal he spends the majority of his time with likeminded people. There's clearly plenty like him within labour happy to have him as labour but the country at large won't accept it. Regardless of what you think of the new labour sycophants, they know it too.
"Equality and freedom are incompatible"
That sounds like rubbish to me. Care to explain?
Yep, the only way to achieve equality is by curtailing the freedom of individuals. You might want everybody to live in a 3 bedroom house, but to do that you have to stop people living in 4 bedroom houses.
If you cannot see the myriad flaws in your 'argument' then there's little hope for you.
Well I'm here for a while so I'm happy for you to enlighten me, I don't even mind if you continue to patronise me.
Sorry about the delay, had to do my bit for equality by feeding my son. During which he discovered how to open the toothpaste tube and spray the contents over the living room carpet ...
If you think that was patronising, you evidently haven't been following PB for long!
Why were you feeding him toothpaste? You sure you got this Dad thing down straight?
A good dad always brushes his son's teeth after a meal. A better dad might not give said son the toothpaste tube to play with ...
One year old in bath. Mother turns back and he injests baby shampoo. Taken to A&E where he has bubbles coming from several orifices..... First of 3 A&E visits in a 12 month period.
"He may well have finally put the brakes on the SNP juggernaut up here in Scotland, he is certainly drowning out the usually North Korean style SNP PR machine in the local news with some positive media attention of his own"
Fitalass wrong again. I know that is not news :-)
Assuming a Corbyn victory, his opposition to any meaningful further devolution will render a surge in Scotland pretty much dead on arrival.
Even if he were popular in Scotland, the political incompetence of both of the SLAB leadership contenders in condemning him before he became hot favourite will be used widely by the "SNP PR machine".
Further, as Corbyn has indicated that he would be kind enough to accept SNP support to put Labour in power, why would anyone bother to switch from SNP to Labour at GE 2020?
Only yesterday C4 news interviewed several young Scots who said they may switch from SNP to a Corbyn led Labour Party
Before Corbyn could take the fight to the SNP he first has to deal with SLAB - which lives in a perpetual state of civil war. Worth remembering that John McT who seems to have appointed himself as Witchfinder General on matters ABC is still SLAB's Chief off Staff - I think John McT and Blair McD would go as far as barricading themselves into SLAB's office in Glasgow to keep Corbyn out !!
If Corbyn becomes leader with membership backing they are irrelevant, in Glasgow yesterday a big turnout for his rally
As Corbyn is anti home rule and not a big fan of further devolution - as well as having no control over SLAB's candidate selection process etc - I can't immediately see why he'll revive SLAB's fortunes.
I am amazed at how some in the Labour party are trying to put a brave face on Corbyn being Leader. Some are clearly delusional. But, it all looks good for the right leaning folk when Labour people are in such a state. Be it despair or blind optimism.
True. A classic example is NickP. Clearly a very intelligent man. But one who has almost no understanding on what a good Leader for his party looks like. Another example is the bigJOwls chap. Apparently held a senior post in the NHS. Yet thought the fact that EdM was regarded as cr*p by most voters would still lead to a Labour Govt. Both of these are happy about a Corbyn term as Leader! Neither chaps are prepared to look at hard reserach into why they lost the GE and the conclusions to be drawn from it. Little point in debating them on it as they seem to be in this blissful space of socialist magic money trees.... Still both of their posts on here are very welcome as I can read and conclude that we have in the Labour party the politically blind led by the politically blind.
You are perfectly right and it is very illuminating to see how delusional people can be.
I don't want to say this - but I think Mr Palmer is totally aware of his position here. His remarkable ability to go from being a Communist to being a Blairite to voting for Gordon and Corbyn speaks of political expediency.
I know he's not running for office right now - but it seems to be in the back of his mind in every post. No point in rocking the boat and saving your feet for later.
I am amazed at how some in the Labour party are trying to put a brave face on Corbyn being Leader. Some are clearly delusional. But, it all looks good for the right leaning folk when Labour people are in such a state. Be it despair or blind optimism.
True. A classic example is NickP. Clearly a very intelligent man. But one who has almost no understanding on what a good Leader for his party looks like. Another example is the bigJOwls chap. Apparently held a senior post in the NHS. Yet thought the fact that EdM was regarded as cr*p by most voters would still lead to a Labour Govt. Both of these are happy about a Corbyn term as Leader! Neither chaps are prepared to look at hard research into why they lost the GE and the conclusions to be drawn from it. Little point in debating them on it as they seem to be in this blissful space of socialist magic money trees.... Still both of their posts on here are very welcome as I can read and conclude that we have in the Labour party the politically blind led by the politically blind.
I am amazed at how some in the Labour party are trying to put a brave face on Corbyn being Leader. Some are clearly delusional. But, it all looks good for the right leaning folk when Labour people are in such a state. Be it despair or blind optimism.
True. A classic example is NickP. Clearly a very intelligent man. But one who has almost no understanding on what a good Leader for his party looks like. Another example is the bigJOwls chap. Apparently held a senior post in the NHS. Yet thought the fact that EdM was regarded as cr*p by most voters would still lead to a Labour Govt. Both of these are happy about a Corbyn term as Leader! Neither chaps are prepared to look at hard research into why they lost the GE and the conclusions to be drawn from it. Little point in debating them on it as they seem to be in this blissful space of socialist magic money trees.... Still both of their posts on here are very welcome as I can read and conclude that we have in the Labour party the politically blind led by the politically blind.
Yes do not put them off posting, as this site would become conservative home, it is nearly that now.
Ken Livingstone was vilified by the MSM as SO is doing now. Blair tried everything possible to stop him having the chance to become London Mayor.
I at the time thought Ken Livingstone would not be a good choice. However he did some good things for London between 2000 to2008. I was wrong and I could be about Corbyn . These are difficult times to predict.
There is a very big difference between choosing a mayor, even for a city as large as London, and choosing a government and prime minister.
I agree David. However even you did not predict the rise of the SNP after the referendum. You did not predict the rise of Corbyn. All the political commentators have been way behind the curve. If we had PR and not FPTP the Labour Party and the Conservatives would go their separate ways. However as a died in the wool tory this will never be your position. Even if it was better for the democratic process and the country. Partisans either Labour or Tory will eventually have to succombe to the end of the rotten boroughs where it is a waste of time voting.
I'm on record here as being in support of PR and recently wrote a thread on formalising party peer appointments on the basis of PRl
It is very difficult to imagine any of this gang of four having the statesmanship or 'stateswomanship' to negotiate with Merkel et al, and that lack of capability includes Farron.
Why do we have so few people of that vital quality in politics today? Is it lack of quality education, family background or just lacking leadership qualities (or perhaps that experience from youth).
Hilarious stuff. Those people are genuinely mad. Tory just means bad to them, which is an ok position to hold I guess, but they don't seem to realise that does not mean bad must also just equalTory. How do they reconcile everyone not ideologically pure being Tory with complaints only 27 %, or whatever, voted for the government?
I did like this one ..... For shear dumbfuckery
@jimwaterson COOPER,KENDALL,BURNHAM,SHOULD DO THE HONEST THING,AND F-CK OFF TO THERE --"NAZI"--TORY MATES,LIKE PRESS/MEDIA -PEOPLE HATERS,
Complete misunderstanding of the National Socialism stance of the Nazi's.
''When a notebook was mislaid by a member of the Whips' Office in 2002, Mr Corbyn was reportedly seen to have been described in it as 'Jeremy Cor Bin-Laden'. Thats a labour whips note book! Everything about Corbyn stinks. What a shambles Labour is...
When you have to resort to quoting an alleged note by an anonymous whip 13 years ago, don't you think you're getting a bit desperate? It makes my chat about what individual members said to me last week look like scientific opinion polling. :-)
"He may well have finally put the brakes on the SNP juggernaut up here in Scotland, he is certainly drowning out the usually North Korean style SNP PR machine in the local news with some positive media attention of his own"
Fitalass wrong again. I know that is not news :-)
Assuming a Corbyn victory, his opposition to any meaningful further devolution will render a surge in Scotland pretty much dead on arrival.
Even if he were popular in Scotland, the political incompetence of both of the SLAB leadership contenders in condemning him before he became hot favourite will be used widely by the "SNP PR machine".
Further, as Corbyn has indicated that he would be kind enough to accept SNP support to put Labour in power, why would anyone bother to switch from SNP to Labour at GE 2020?
Only yesterday C4 news interviewed several young Scots who said they may switch from SNP to a Corbyn led Labour Party
Before Corbyn could take the fight to the SNP he first has to deal with SLAB - which lives in a perpetual state of civil war. Worth remembering that John McT who seems to have appointed himself as Witchfinder General on matters ABC is still SLAB's Chief off Staff - I think John McT and Blair McD would go as far as barricading themselves into SLAB's office in Glasgow to keep Corbyn out !!
If Corbyn becomes leader with membership backing they are irrelevant, in Glasgow yesterday a big turnout for his rally
As Corbyn is anti home rule and not a big fan of further devolution - as well as having no control over SLAB's candidate selection process etc - I can't immediately see why he'll revive SLAB's fortunes.
Because he would make Labour into an anti austerity movement and the place that would play best in is Scotland
Ken Livingstone was vilified by the MSM as SO is doing now. Blair tried everything possible to stop him having the chance to become London Mayor.
I at the time thought Ken Livingstone would not be a good choice. However he did some good things for London between 2000 to2008. I was wrong and I could be about Corbyn . These are difficult times to predict.
There is a very big difference between choosing a mayor, even for a city as large as London, and choosing a government and prime minister.
I agree David. However even you did not predict the rise of the SNP after the referendum. You did not predict the rise of Corbyn. All the political commentators have been way behind the curve. If we had PR and not FPTP the Labour Party and the Conservatives would go their separate ways. However as a died in the wool tory this will never be your position. Even if it was better for the democratic process and the country. Partisans either Labour or Tory will eventually have to succombe to the end of the rotten boroughs where it is a waste of time voting.
I'm on record here as being in support of PR and recently wrote a thread on formalising party peer appointments on the basis of PRl
We cant just pretend that PR is a solution to all the worlds problems. It isnt.
It is very difficult to imagine any of this gang of four having the statesmanship or 'stateswomanship' to negotiate with Merkel et al, and that lack of capability includes Farron.
Why do we have so few people of that vital quality in politics today? Is it lack of quality education, family background or just lacking leadership qualities (or perhaps that experience from youth).
So just what exactly has Cameron successfully negotiated? I'm getting tired of making a good speech sans notes and looking serious and producing a good sound-bite when something awful has happened being used as measure of a good Prime Minister. They are not. It's good when you get someone like Thatcher with both bearing and substance, but in the absence of the former I'd much rather have the latter.
Ken Livingstone was vilified by the MSM as SO is doing now. Blair tried everything possible to stop him having the chance to become London Mayor.
I at the time thought Ken Livingstone would not be a good choice. However he did some good things for London between 2000 to2008. I was wrong and I could be about Corbyn . These are difficult times to predict.
There is a very big difference between choosing a mayor, even for a city as large as London, and choosing a government and prime minister.
I agree David. However even you did not predict the rise of the SNP after the referendum. You did not predict the rise of Corbyn. All the political commentators have been way behind the curve. If we had PR and not FPTP the Labour Party and the Conservatives would go their separate ways. However as a died in the wool tory this will never be your position. Even if it was better for the democratic process and the country. Partisans either Labour or Tory will eventually have to succombe to the end of the rotten boroughs where it is a waste of time voting.
I'm on record here as being in support of PR and recently wrote a thread on formalising party peer appointments on the basis of PRl
Apologies I missed your position on PR. Blair should have gone for PR in 97 after winning that majority. It would then have been seen as a noble thing to do for the country and not a position for partisan advantage.
People are in the mood for a different approach and I think Tories are gloating too soon
If enough are sensible they should be ok - I think it notable Mr Herdson recognises that Corbyn could cause Cameron problems simply by virtue of being different to what he isused to - but it's too early to say if in general the Tories will get complacent. The more certain they think a victory is, the greater the chance they will make a mistake.
If millions of voters in marginal seat's across England refused to vote for Ed Miliband they are not going to vote for Jeremy Corbyn in a million years.
What's far more likely is that millions of Labour voters who stuck with Labour despite Ed Miliband will conclude they are being taken for fools by the Labour Party and abandon the party leading to the kind of collapse across England and Wales that we saw in Scotland.
Labour is playing a very, very dangerous game with the voters and frankly I think the party has literally lost the plot (Dr Palmer included I'm afraid to say)
It's going to be tremendously fun to watch though.
Plus I think parliament would have been very dull with Yvette or Andy in as LOTO for the next 5 years.
The plots and scheming going on behind Jezza's back with a PLP and membership at war with one another will require bundles of popcorn.
As Mr. Yeodethur is not here Mr. Flaming Picky will have to do duty as PB's pendant for the time being, and he says:
You cannot bundle popcorn. The essence of a bundle is that it a collection of things that are tied or wrapped together. One cannot, at least in any meaningful sense, tie bits of popcorn together.
You've not made a popcorn necklace before??
edit: I see Miss @Plato beat me to it. And with an wiki link and everything!
Ken Livingstone was vilified by the MSM as SO is doing now. Blair tried everything possible to stop him having the chance to become London Mayor.
I at the time thought Ken Livingstone would not be a good choice. However he did some good things for London between 2000 to2008. I was wrong and I could be about Corbyn . These are difficult times to predict.
There is a very big difference between choosing a mayor, even for a city as large as London, and choosing a government and prime minister.
I agree David. However even you did not predict the rise of the SNP after the referendum. You did not predict the rise of Corbyn. All the political commentators have been way behind the curve. If we had PR and not FPTP the Labour Party and the Conservatives would go their separate ways. However as a died in the wool tory this will never be your position. Even if it was better for the democratic process and the country. Partisans either Labour or Tory will eventually have to succombe to the end of the rotten boroughs where it is a waste of time voting.
I'm on record here as being in support of PR and recently wrote a thread on formalising party peer appointments on the basis of PRl
We cant just pretend that PR is a solution to all the worlds problems.
Ken Livingstone was vilified by the MSM as SO is doing now. Blair tried everything possible to stop him having the chance to become London Mayor.
I at the time thought Ken Livingstone would not be a good choice. However he did some good things for London between 2000 to2008. I was wrong and I could be about Corbyn . These are difficult times to predict.
Although towards the end his true character reasserted itself
Didn't he tell a British-born, but Jewish photographer for the Evening Standard to "F**k off back to Israel!" or something?
Ken will be pleased with the changes brought about by Eric Pickles. Now only a court of law can remove you from office following a conviction of the necessary severity that disqualifies you from holding the office. I agree with that too, I don't want some bureaucratic body deciding who I can vote for.
It is very difficult to imagine any of this gang of four having the statesmanship or 'stateswomanship' to negotiate with Merkel et al, and that lack of capability includes Farron.
Why do we have so few people of that vital quality in politics today? Is it lack of quality education, family background or just lacking leadership qualities (or perhaps that experience from youth).
Were Chamberlain and MacDonald much better? Anyway Merkel is an exception most world leaders Hollande, Abbott, Rajoy, Tsipras, even Obama are pretty average
I went to A&E 5x before I was 5yrs old with various accidental injuries - fingers in car door, paint in my eye, sprained wrist... My mother joked I'd be taken in care at that rate. Fortunately it was in the 60s.
Corbyn will fall apart soon after winning because his lala land brand of politics never has and never will stand up to scrutiny, it's nothing to do with smearing. Equality and freedom are incompatible, the socialist desire for equality (however they wish to define it) can only be at the expense of freedom and we value that above all else.
It's odd that he's got to his age without that dawning on him, we all gravitate to where we're comfortable, I suspect that as a veggie teetotal he spends the majority of his time with likeminded people. There's clearly plenty like him within labour happy to have him as labour but the country at large won't accept it. Regardless of what you think of the new labour sycophants, they know it too.
"Equality and freedom are incompatible"
That sounds like rubbish to me. Care to explain?
Yep, the only way to achieve equality is by curtailing the freedom of individuals. You might want everybody to live in a 3 bedroom house, but to do that you have to stop people living in 4 bedroom houses.
If you cannot see the myriad flaws in your 'argument' then there's little hope for you.
Well I'm here for a while so I'm happy for you to enlighten me, I don't even mind if you continue to patronise me.
Sorry about the delay, had to do my bit for equality by feeding my son. During which he discovered how to open the toothpaste tube and spray the contents over the living room carpet ...
If you think that was patronising, you evidently haven't been following PB for long!
Why were you feeding him toothpaste? You sure you got this Dad thing down straight?
A good dad always brushes his son's teeth after a meal. A better dad might not give said son the toothpaste tube to play with ...
One year old in bath. Mother turns back and he injests baby shampoo. Taken to A&E where he has bubbles coming from several orifices..... First of 3 A&E visits in a 12 month period.
Scientific polls all have Corbyn polling better in Scotland than anywhere else in the UK apart from London Miliband polled dreadfully in Scotland behind even Cameron
Unless you have a Tardis there aren't any scientific polls showing how Leader of the Opposition Corbyn is performing since he isn't Leader of the Opposition yet.
Polls of the Labour leadership so far all show only Scotland and London have voters saying they would be more likely to vote Labour under Corbyn
Polls of the Labour leadership so far are utterly meaningless since there is no Labour leadership so far. The idea you can compare a candidate to an actual Leader of the Opposition is a bad joke.
''When a notebook was mislaid by a member of the Whips' Office in 2002, Mr Corbyn was reportedly seen to have been described in it as 'Jeremy Cor Bin-Laden'. Thats a labour whips note book! Everything about Corbyn stinks. What a shambles Labour is...
When you have to resort to quoting an alleged note by an anonymous whip 13 years ago, don't you think you're getting a bit desperate? It makes my chat about what individual members said to me last week look like scientific opinion polling. :-)
I certainly agree with Nick that the smearing of Corbyn, both by Tories and by the Labour Right, has been disgraceful.
As far as I can see, Corbyn has behaved gracefully under very unreasonable attacks. I certainly admire him for that.
I think it is worthwhile Labour learning the lessons of 2015, but on one thing Corbyn is surely right. The increasing inequality of the UK, and increasing reluctance of the very rich and of big companies to pay tax, is one of the most important issues facing the UK. That has a real resonance with the public, and it is not being articulated elsewhere.
If Corbyn is leader, and he manages to divert the energies of a united Labour Party into tackling this issue, then I see no reason why he might not win in 2020. 2020 will not be a re-run of 2015. Different issues will be important, and we will have had 10 years of cutbacks.
''When a notebook was mislaid by a member of the Whips' Office in 2002, Mr Corbyn was reportedly seen to have been described in it as 'Jeremy Cor Bin-Laden'. Thats a labour whips note book! Everything about Corbyn stinks. What a shambles Labour is...
When you have to resort to quoting an alleged note by an anonymous whip 13 years ago, don't you think you're getting a bit desperate? It makes my chat about what individual members said to me last week look like scientific opinion polling. :-)
Corbyn and you will have to expect a lot worse, if his leadership starts to shift public opinion away from the consensus on Neoliberlalism. If some of his supporters react like they do on social media , there will be plenty of heat on both sides.
''When a notebook was mislaid by a member of the Whips' Office in 2002, Mr Corbyn was reportedly seen to have been described in it as 'Jeremy Cor Bin-Laden'. Thats a labour whips note book! Everything about Corbyn stinks. What a shambles Labour is...
When you have to resort to quoting an alleged note by an anonymous whip 13 years ago, don't you think you're getting a bit desperate? It makes my chat about what individual members said to me last week look like scientific opinion polling. :-)
I certainly agree with Nick that the smearing of Corbyn, both by Tories and by the Labour Right, has been disgraceful.
As far as I can see, Corbyn has behaved gracefully under very unreasonable attacks. I certainly admire him for that.
I think it is worthwhile Labour learning the lessons of 2015, but on one thing Corbyn is surely right. The increasing inequality of the UK, and increasing reluctance of the very rich and of big companies to pay tax, is one of the most important issues facing the UK. That has a real resonance with the public, and it is not being articulated elsewhere.
If Corbyn is leader, and he manages to divert the energies of a united Labour Party into tackling this issue, then I see no reason why he might not win in 2020. 2020 will not be a re-run of 2015. Different issues will be important, and we will have had 10 years of cutbacks.
And a completely unpredictable Euro referendum.
Inequality isnt rising though, homelessness is at one of its lowest for thirty years, as is child poverty (quite dramatically on a couple of measure), both relative and absolute, as is unemployment, as is inflation. There are problems, as there always is, but under the coalition and now the Tories, the country isnt going to hell in a handcart.
"He may well have finally put the brakes on the SNP juggernaut up here in Scotland, he is certainly drowning out the usually North Korean style SNP PR machine in the local news with some positive media attention of his own"
Fitalass wrong again. I know that is not news :-)
Assuming a Corbyn victory, his opposition to any meaningful further devolution will render a surge in Scotland pretty much dead on arrival.
Even if he were popular in Scotland, the political incompetence of both of the SLAB leadership contenders in condemning him before he became hot favourite will be used widely by the "SNP PR machine".
Further, as Corbyn has indicated that he would be kind enough to accept SNP support to put Labour in power, why would anyone bother to switch from SNP to Labour at GE 2020?
Only yesterday C4 news interviewed several young Scots who said they may switch from SNP to a Corbyn led Labour Party
Before Corbyn could take the fight to the SNP he first has to deal with SLAB - which lives in a perpetual state of civil war. Worth remembering that John McT who seems to have appointed himself as Witchfinder General on matters ABC is still SLAB's Chief off Staff - I think John McT and Blair McD would go as far as barricading themselves into SLAB's office in Glasgow to keep Corbyn out !!
If Corbyn becomes leader with membership backing they are irrelevant, in Glasgow yesterday a big turnout for his rally
As Corbyn is anti home rule and not a big fan of further devolution - as well as having no control over SLAB's candidate selection process etc - I can't immediately see why he'll revive SLAB's fortunes.
Because he would make Labour into an anti austerity movement and the place that would play best in is Scotland
And its the trade unions who will control candidate selection
Seems to be general agreement this afternoon on PB that Corbyn is already leader. Hope everyone has filled their boots at Betfair in that case! There's still £700 at 1.35 going begging if not.
Seems to be general agreement this afternoon on PB that Corbyn is already leader. Hope everyone has filled their boots at Betfair in that case! There's still £700 at 1.35 going begging if not.
Remember, not a vote has been cast, and there is no past record of accuracy to determine success either way. A few people on twitter can make a lot of noise.
''When a notebook was mislaid by a member of the Whips' Office in 2002, Mr Corbyn was reportedly seen to have been described in it as 'Jeremy Cor Bin-Laden'. Thats a labour whips note book! Everything about Corbyn stinks. What a shambles Labour is...
When you have to resort to quoting an alleged note by an anonymous whip 13 years ago, don't you think you're getting a bit desperate? It makes my chat about what individual members said to me last week look like scientific opinion polling. :-)
I certainly agree with Nick that the smearing of Corbyn, both by Tories and by the Labour Right, has been disgraceful.
As far as I can see, Corbyn has behaved gracefully under very unreasonable attacks. I certainly admire him for that.
I think he's responded gracefully, for the most part, or ignored, attacks which in some instances may be reasonable and some instances not. I have not, however, seen that he has been smeared in any way - people have reported what he has said or believed, and they have also said if they like him or not. To my mind, smearing would involve untruths being spread about. There seems plenty about his views which are on the record which people in Labour and without do not like, so they haven't needed to smear (on the whole - a supposed note from the whips office is inconsequential, but hardly typical of the general attacks on Corbyn, which have been 'the man thinks this, he admits that, i don't agree)
Unless we are using the modern definition of smear - people saying things the other side disagrees with.
It is very difficult to imagine any of this gang of four having the statesmanship or 'stateswomanship' to negotiate with Merkel et al, and that lack of capability includes Farron.
Why do we have so few people of that vital quality in politics today? Is it lack of quality education, family background or just lacking leadership qualities (or perhaps that experience from youth).
A very good question, Mr. Financier, and not one to which there is a simple or single answer. Mr. Charles posted a view on this the other day and as he is about he might like to give us his view again.
My own view as regards national politics is that the career path of Researcher -> SpaD -> Safe Seat -> Minister has become too prevalent and has lead to too many people at the top who have too little experience but are of the same mindset (regardless of party). That is to say they have not far progressed beyond the Student Union stage of politics.and will only, as far as it is possible, promote people in their own image. We are in the age of the professional politician but with a system designed for gentlefolk amateurs.
Cameron won a leadership contest based on a vote of the membership, then won two elections. That's democracy.
The Conservative leadership election process is rigged to ensure the members get little real say or choice between candidates. Labour needs to do the same.
They did - that was the point of the 35MP nomination limit, to ensure any leadership candidate presented to the party was acceptable and backed by sufficient levels of parliamentary support. They just then ignored that, as they decided (or some decided) that a broad debate was more important than screening the candidates to put to the membership.
Not to anywhere near the same degree. 15% of MPs isn't that much.
Granted, but it seems sufficient to week out any members of the awkward squad. Corbyn wasn't getting anywhere near that without being nominated by people who don't support him, and Abbott did even worse, and only got to the level by being explicitly gifted nominations purely on the basis of her gender. The Tory method of only 2 nominations but then voted upon by the MPs to whittle them down to the final 2 candidates in theory allows crazy people to put themselves forward very easily, but I suppose in practice it would be not worth the trouble since you know you won't get to the final 2, or even close to it, if you are a member of the awkward squad.
IDS, John Redwood?
There are different levels of awkwardness.
The anti EU Tory right is the equivalent of the Labour left
OT: I've made it onto a course for Mathematics and Computer Science (MSci) at Birmingham University. Despite obviously disliking the tuition fees I recognise their necessity and am grateful to the Tories for lifting the student number cap. If Labour get back into power in 2020 (in some crazy parallel universe) I'll be burdened with higher taxes and will still have the student debt burden. Worst of both worlds. Student debt made me into a conservative.
Jezza has promised to end tuition fees and wipeout existing student debt. You may want to reconsider your vote!
If you work abroad you don't repay any tuition fees. So doctors with five years worth of tuition fees are heavily incentivised to move abroad eg Australia and avoid repaying the fees.
Oh really? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/9287346/Student-loan-could-land-you-in-court-if-you-move-overseas.html ''Moving overseas to escape student debt might seem like a sure-fire way to avoid repayments but borrowers could be landed with fines, or even court proceedings, if they don’t keep in touch with the Student Loans Company. There’s a common misconception among borrowers that quitting Britain will put an end to loan repayments but buried in the terms and conditions of the loan agreement are overseas repayment schedules. In some cases living abroad can even increase what you pay.''
If they are not planning to come back, does it matter?
Seems to be general agreement this afternoon on PB that Corbyn is already leader. Hope everyone has filled their boots at Betfair in that case! There's still £700 at 1.35 going begging if not.
I topped up with another ton at 1.4 myself (Couple of days back), but NOM was also regarded as a 'cert' before the GE - so remember it's not completely in the bag just yet (I think it's > 90% likely Jeremy will win, mind)
''When a notebook was mislaid by a member of the Whips' Office in 2002, Mr Corbyn was reportedly seen to have been described in it as 'Jeremy Cor Bin-Laden'. Thats a labour whips note book! Everything about Corbyn stinks. What a shambles Labour is...
When you have to resort to quoting an alleged note by an anonymous whip 13 years ago, don't you think you're getting a bit desperate? It makes my chat about what individual members said to me last week look like scientific opinion polling. :-)
Stay in your dreamworld. You have just demonstrated how unfit you are for any office. Ideal Corby-fodder if you ask me. Make sure you send an appropriate letter of congratulation when he wins.
"He may well have finally put the brakes on the SNP juggernaut up here in Scotland, he is certainly drowning out the usually North Korean style SNP PR machine in the local news with some positive media attention of his own"
Fitalass wrong again. I know that is not news :-)
Assuming a Corbyn victory, his opposition to any meaningful further devolution will render a surge in Scotland pretty much dead on arrival.
Even if he were popular in Scotland, the political incompetence of both of the SLAB leadership contenders in condemning him before he became hot favourite will be used widely by the "SNP PR machine".
Further, as Corbyn has indicated that he would be kind enough to accept SNP support to put Labour in power, why would anyone bother to switch from SNP to Labour at GE 2020?
Only yesterday C4 news interviewed several young Scots who said they may switch from SNP to a Corbyn led Labour Party
Before Corbyn could take the fight to the SNP he first has to deal with SLAB - which lives in a perpetual state of civil war. Worth remembering that John McT who seems to have appointed himself as Witchfinder General on matters ABC is still SLAB's Chief off Staff - I think John McT and Blair McD would go as far as barricading themselves into SLAB's office in Glasgow to keep Corbyn out !!
If Corbyn becomes leader with membership backing they are irrelevant, in Glasgow yesterday a big turnout for his rally
As Corbyn is anti home rule and not a big fan of further devolution - as well as having no control over SLAB's candidate selection process etc - I can't immediately see why he'll revive SLAB's fortunes.
Because he would make Labour into an anti austerity movement and the place that would play best in is Scotland
And its the trade unions who will control candidate selection
And? Unions are more popular in Scotland than England
''When a notebook was mislaid by a member of the Whips' Office in 2002, Mr Corbyn was reportedly seen to have been described in it as 'Jeremy Cor Bin-Laden'. Thats a labour whips note book! Everything about Corbyn stinks. What a shambles Labour is...
When you have to resort to quoting an alleged note by an anonymous whip 13 years ago, don't you think you're getting a bit desperate? It makes my chat about what individual members said to me last week look like scientific opinion polling. :-)
I certainly agree with Nick that the smearing of Corbyn, both by Tories and by the Labour Right, has been disgraceful.
As far as I can see, Corbyn has behaved gracefully under very unreasonable attacks. I certainly admire him for that.
I think he's responded gracefully, for the most part, or ignored, attacks which in some instances may be reasonable and some instances not. I have not, however, seen that he has been smeared in any way - people have reported what he has said or believed, and they have also said if they like him or not. To my mind, smearing would involve untruths being spread about. There seems plenty about his views which are on the record which people in Labour and without do not like, so they haven't needed to smear (on the whole - a supposed note from the whips office is inconsequential, but hardly typical of the general attacks on Corbyn, which have been 'the man thinks this, he admits that, i don't agree)
Unless we are using the modern definition of smear - people saying things the other side disagrees with.
I think it would also qualify as smearing if one used statements and actions from a long time ago to misrepresent a candidates current political platform. Politicians, especially those in politics for a long time, have a right to change their minds and/or evolve their political views over time and in response to changed circumstances and not be held to everything from their past.
However this doesn't really work, I think, in the case of Corbyn, because as far as is apparent he hasn't changed his mind on anything in 30 years. Even despite the vastly changed circumstances in the world today. So pretty much anything used against him from his past seems to be fair comment.
''When a notebook was mislaid by a member of the Whips' Office in 2002, Mr Corbyn was reportedly seen to have been described in it as 'Jeremy Cor Bin-Laden'. Thats a labour whips note book! Everything about Corbyn stinks. What a shambles Labour is...
When you have to resort to quoting an alleged note by an anonymous whip 13 years ago, don't you think you're getting a bit desperate? It makes my chat about what individual members said to me last week look like scientific opinion polling. :-)
I certainly agree with Nick that the smearing of Corbyn, both by Tories and by the Labour Right, has been disgraceful.
As far as I can see, Corbyn has behaved gracefully under very unreasonable attacks. I certainly admire him for that.
I think it is worthwhile Labour learning the lessons of 2015, but on one thing Corbyn is surely right. The increasing inequality of the UK, and increasing reluctance of the very rich and of big companies to pay tax, is one of the most important issues facing the UK. That has a real resonance with the public, and it is not being articulated elsewhere.
If Corbyn is leader, and he manages to divert the energies of a united Labour Party into tackling this issue, then I see no reason why he might not win in 2020. 2020 will not be a re-run of 2015. Different issues will be important, and we will have had 10 years of cutbacks.
And a completely unpredictable Euro referendum.
Inequality isnt rising though, homelessness is at one of its lowest for thirty years, as is child poverty (quite dramatically on a couple of measure), both relative and absolute, as is unemployment, as is inflation. There are problems, as there always is, but under the coalition and now the Tories, the country isnt going to hell in a handcart.
Oh all of this. The inequality one most of all.
Just because some discredited chap with a beard says it, does not make it true.
Christ, someone get the smelling salts. SO is hysterical.
Not really. I'll be absolutely fine with 10-15 more years of Tory government as they look after people like me. It's just a shame to see the party that did so much to ensure I got the opportunities I did put itself in a position of unelectability by choosing a leader who is not only economically illiterate but also the serial friend of this country's enemies. That said, if choosing him makrs you feel good about yourself, who am I to argue? Go for it.
Of course he is facing a Tory party that armed the Saudis, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Pinochet, Suharto and Islamist extremists in Libya, Syria and Afghanistan, many of the above hardly being known for pro-Jew or liberal outlooks.
They also actively collaborated militarily with terrorist groups in Ireland, rather than just suggesting talking with them.
Corbyn has stood shoulder to shoulder with enemies of this country for decades. He has observed minute silences for the murderers of British troops. If you are comfortable with that, so be it.
But there have been times when our Armed Forces have been used as instruments of evil. When that has happened - Iraq in 2003 for example - human decency would have been best served by their being defeated.
"He may well have finally put the brakes on the SNP juggernaut up here in Scotland, he is certainly drowning out the usually North Korean style SNP PR machine in the local news with some positive media attention of his own"
Fitalass wrong again. I know that is not news :-)
Assuming a Corbyn victory, his opposition to any meaningful further devolution will render a surge in Scotland pretty much dead on arrival.
Even if he were popular in Scotland, the political incompetence of both of the SLAB leadership contenders in condemning him before he became hot favourite will be used widely by the "SNP PR machine".
Further, as Corbyn has indicated that he would be kind enough to accept SNP support to put Labour in power, why would anyone bother to switch from SNP to Labour at GE 2020?
Only yesterday C4 news interviewed several young Scots who said they may switch from SNP to a Corbyn led Labour Party
Before Corbyn could take the fight to the SNP he first has to deal with SLAB - which lives in a perpetual state of civil war. Worth remembering that John McT who seems to have appointed himself as Witchfinder General on matters ABC is still SLAB's Chief off Staff - I think John McT and Blair McD would go as far as barricading themselves into SLAB's office in Glasgow to keep Corbyn out !!
If Corbyn becomes leader with membership backing they are irrelevant, in Glasgow yesterday a big turnout for his rally
As Corbyn is anti home rule and not a big fan of further devolution - as well as having no control over SLAB's candidate selection process etc - I can't immediately see why he'll revive SLAB's fortunes.
Because he would make Labour into an anti austerity movement and the place that would play best in is Scotland
The SNP are already are anti austerity movement who also favour independence when the time is right. Why then vote for a party which is anti austerity and anti independence/devolution - when UK Labour has been infected with SLABitis.
''When a notebook was mislaid by a member of the Whips' Office in 2002, Mr Corbyn was reportedly seen to have been described in it as 'Jeremy Cor Bin-Laden'. Thats a labour whips note book! Everything about Corbyn stinks. What a shambles Labour is...
When you have to resort to quoting an alleged note by an anonymous whip 13 years ago, don't you think you're getting a bit desperate? It makes my chat about what individual members said to me last week look like scientific opinion polling. :-)
I certainly agree with Nick that the smearing of Corbyn, both by Tories and by the Labour Right, has been disgraceful.
As far as I can see, Corbyn has behaved gracefully under very unreasonable attacks. I certainly admire him for that.
I think he's responded gracefully, for the most part, or ignored, attacks which in some instances may be reasonable and some instances not. I have not, however, seen that he has been smeared in any way - people have reported what he has said or believed, and they have also said if they like him or not. To my mind, smearing would involve untruths being spread about. There seems plenty about his views which are on the record which people in Labour and without do not like, so they haven't needed to smear (on the whole - a supposed note from the whips office is inconsequential, but hardly typical of the general attacks on Corbyn, which have been 'the man thinks this, he admits that, i don't agree)
Unless we are using the modern definition of smear - people saying things the other side disagrees with.
I think it would also qualify as smearing if one used statements and actions from a long time ago to misrepresent a candidates current political platform. Politicians, especially those in politics for a long time, have a right to change their minds and/or evolve their political views over time and in response to changed circumstances and not be held to everything from their past.
However this doesn't really work, I think, in the case of Corbyn, because as far as is apparent he hasn't changed his mind on anything in 30 years. Even despite the vastly changed circumstances in the world today. So pretty much anything used against him from his past seems to be fair comment.
That seems fair. If your entire pitch is consistent principles, past statements remain valid.
But there have been times when our Armed Forces have been used as instruments of evil. When that has happened - Iraq in 2003 for example - human decency would have been best served by their being defeated.
I can see why that as a former communist that Nick Palmer has decided on Corbyn. Its not as tho Corbyn is just a lefty, he's a full blown commie set against the state as we know it.
Labour voters should think long and hard before voting for such a dangerous individual.
They probably won't get another opportunity. Nick has lost in Broxtowe twice now.
I hesitate to bring AGW into this but don't mention Jezza's view here. It's fine to have an opinion but he will be dogmatic about it.
I worry about people who say that “the science is settled.” They are always proved wrong. Lord Kelvin, President of the Royal Society from 1890 to 1895 declared that “There is nothing new to be discovered in physics now. All that remains is more and more precise measurement."
A few years later, a revolution occurred with the discovery of relativity and quantum theory. Sometimes it’s the problem of correlation and causation. More recently, who can forget the fat is bad hypothesis? Cholesterol is bad, therefore eggs are bad. Studies showed a correlation between fat intake and heart disease, between cholesterol level and heart disease. There was definitely a consensus that reducing fat intake was the answer.
But there were facts still be discovered. Some types of lipoproteins are good. And there are different forms of HDL-cholesterol, different forms of LDL-cholesterol and various forms of apolipoproteins. Now carbohydrates are becoming the enemy (especially fructose). Who knows what the future holds? But it shows the problem of relying on surveys that are retrospective.
The gold standard for distinguishing correlation from causation is the double blind study. Follow groups chosen to be similar for all known factors and vary one of them. And don’t tell the participants or directors which is which.
Compared to lipid metabolism, climate change is vastly more complicated. Is carbon dioxide increase a causation or just a vague correlation? We need to divide the earth into two equal portions and increase CO2 in just one while all other factors remain the same - and there are far more factors involved here, some known and some unknown.
There is a scientific consensus but it is always a guess, an educated guess, but a guess. We should be finding ways to disprove the current hypothesis, not looking for ways to support it. That is real science.
It might be right, but is it worth spending fortunes onjust a good guess? Jezza will.
But there have been times when our Armed Forces have been used as instruments of evil. When that has happened - Iraq in 2003 for example - human decency would have been best served by their being defeated.
That's a keeper !
Welcome to the fruity loop world of the lefty nutjob.
"He may well have finally put the brakes on the SNP juggernaut up here in Scotland, he is certainly drowning out the usually North Korean style SNP PR machine in the local news with some positive media attention of his own"
Fitalass wrong again. I know that is not news :-)
Assuming a Corbyn victory, his opposition to any meaningful further devolution will render a surge in Scotland pretty much dead on arrival.
Even if he were popular in Scotland, the political incompetence of both of the SLAB leadership contenders in condemning him before he became hot favourite will be used widely by the "SNP PR machine".
Further, as Corbyn has indicated that he would be kind enough to accept SNP support to put Labour in power, why would anyone bother to switch from SNP to Labour at GE 2020?
Only yesterday C4 news interviewed several young Scots who said they may switch from SNP to a Corbyn led Labour Party
Before Corbyn could take the fight to the SNP he first has to deal with SLAB - which lives in a perpetual state of civil war. Worth remembering that John McT who seems to have appointed himself as Witchfinder General on matters ABC is still SLAB's Chief off Staff - I think John McT and Blair McD would go as far as barricading themselves into SLAB's office in Glasgow to keep Corbyn out !!
If Corbyn becomes leader with membership backing they are irrelevant, in Glasgow yesterday a big turnout for his rally
As Corbyn is anti home rule and not a big fan of further devolution - as well as having no control over SLAB's candidate selection process etc - I can't immediately see why he'll revive SLAB's fortunes.
Because he would make Labour into an anti austerity movement and the place that would play best in is Scotland
The SNP are already are anti austerity movement who also favour independence when the time is right. Why then vote for a party which is anti austerity and anti independence/devolution - when UK Labour has been infected with SLABitis.
The SNP advocate anti-austerity as a political platform, but not something they actually put into practice given the opportunity. Similar in some respects to how "austerity" is a political platform for the Conservatives, but the reality doesn't quite match the rhetoric.
People are in the mood for a different approach and I think Tories are gloating too soon
If enough are sensible they should be ok - I think it notable Mr Herdson recognises that Corbyn could cause Cameron problems simply by virtue of being different to what he isused to - but it's too early to say if in general the Tories will get complacent. The more certain they think a victory is, the greater the chance they will make a mistake.
If millions of voters in marginal seat's across England refused to vote for Ed Miliband they are not going to vote for Jeremy Corbyn in a million years.
What's far more likely is that millions of Labour voters who stuck with Labour despite Ed Miliband will conclude they are being taken for fools by the Labour Party and abandon the party leading to the kind of collapse across England and Wales that we saw in Scotland.
Labour is playing a very, very dangerous game with the voters and frankly I think the party has literally lost the plot (Dr Palmer included I'm afraid to say)
It's going to be tremendously fun to watch though.
Plus I think parliament would have been very dull with Yvette or Andy in as LOTO for the next 5 years.
The plots and scheming going on behind Jezza's back with a PLP and membership at war with one another will require bundles of popcorn.
As Mr. Yeodethur is not here Mr. Flaming Picky will have to do duty as PB's pendant for the time being, and he says:
You cannot bundle popcorn. The essence of a bundle is that it a collection of things that are tied or wrapped together. One cannot, at least in any meaningful sense, tie bits of popcorn together.
You've not made a popcorn necklace before??
edit: I see Miss @Plato beat me to it. And with an wiki link and everything!
I most certainly have not made a popcorn necklace. I was brought up not to play with my food! Actually food in the Llama household was regarded as something of a special if not sacred item, no doubt as a result of rationing, but I digress.
Creating a popcorn necklace involves threading bits of it onto a string, that is very different from tying bits of it together. Threading != Bundling. If the OP had said "... threads of popcorn..." then Mr. Flaming Picky would not have come down from his watchtower.
Comments
If you wanted complete equality for individuals you would need to take them from their families when born. Totalitarian regimes sometimes dream of doing this.
Some times, politicians have to befriend people to influence some sort of dialogue, whether they think the person is insane, evil or stupid is beside the point.
What's far more likely is that millions of Labour voters who stuck with Labour despite Ed Miliband will conclude they are being taken for fools by the Labour Party and abandon the party leading to the kind of collapse across England and Wales that we saw in Scotland.
Labour is playing a very, very dangerous game with the voters and frankly I think the party has literally lost the plot (Dr Palmer included I'm afraid to say)
Of course, Scotland's different to the rest of the UK. Fighting the SNP for the mantle of socialism is a different bag of monkeys to battling the Conservatives for high office.
Plus I think parliament would have been very dull with Yvette or Andy in as LOTO for the next 5 years.
The plots and scheming going on behind Jezza's back with a PLP and membership at war with one another will require bundles of popcorn.
High death duties upend the relationship between the state and the individual. Property belongs to the individual, not to the state: it's already been taxed and income generated from it is taxed again
Private education, in an ideal world, would not need to exist (although there will almost be a demand for a small part of it - Eton for example). But I'd rather see state education improved to such a level that there is no demand for private education
Tertiary education should be paid for - it is an investment by an individual in themselves. But there should be extensive scholarships so that the most talented can always afford it
That said, the press would never let the left get away with such shameless policies as introducing unaffordable tax-cuts and benefit increases while claiming the necessity for cutting the national debt and austerity.
No, you need to use a stake - make sure they don't rise again.
Although I'd imagine that @innocent_abroad would rather like getting his hands dirty.
But it is pretty darn risky to bet the house on requiring a sea change in the electorate's thinking, rather than such a change merely helping it along. A bold move from Labour, no question.
Cameron won a leadership contest based on a vote of the membership, then won two elections. That's democracy.
But my main point is that Blair who I supported, was wrong in 2000, and so were most of the MSM political commentators about Livingstone as was I.
My daughter lives in London and London is a better place because of Livingstone 2000 to 2008 .
His speech to the country and London after 7/7 was one of the best I have heard.
The left need their faux white poppy of appeasement and surrender to justify their bitter and twisted view of the world.
If you work abroad you don't repay any tuition fees.
So doctors with five years worth of tuition fees are heavily incentivised to move abroad eg Australia and avoid repaying the fees.
So, essentially, they don't really believe in "equality of opportunity" in way that's remotely meaningful. The Conservative leadership election process is rigged to ensure the members get little real say or choice between candidates, with the MPs pretty much making all the decisions based on backdoor conversations. Labour need to do the same.
If Labour used the Conservative's leadership election process then it would be a two-way vote between Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3158969/Divorced-row-grammar-schools-Labour-s-left-wing-dark-horse-Jeremy-Corbyn-tied-knot-wife-number-three-secret-wedding-Mexico.html
By Corbyn winning back Scotland from the SNP he would also win back those voters in England who were no longer worried about the SNP coalition.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/9287346/Student-loan-could-land-you-in-court-if-you-move-overseas.html
''Moving overseas to escape student debt might seem like a sure-fire way to avoid repayments but borrowers could be landed with fines, or even court proceedings, if they don’t keep in touch with the Student Loans Company.
There’s a common misconception among borrowers that quitting Britain will put an end to loan repayments but buried in the terms and conditions of the loan agreement are overseas repayment schedules. In some cases living abroad can even increase what you pay.''
Consider one small group of Labour supporters. The Methodists. By and large traditional Labour supporters, (Paul Flowers, disgraced head of Co-Op Banks was a Methodist Minister).
There is no way any of them could in conscience associate with a man who has anti semitic links such as Corbyn.
I can't actually believe we're sitting here seriously talking about Jeremy Corbyn being a serious politician/prospect for government.
It's insane. Madness.
Forsyth and his cronies agin Lang, Rifkind et al the members of the Edinburgh Club. Not an edifying site. I can still remember seeing Rifkind walking away from his constituency office during the "troubles" and he definitely was not a happy bunny.
You cannot bundle popcorn. The essence of a bundle is that it a collection of things that are tied or wrapped together. One cannot, at least in any meaningful sense, tie bits of popcorn together.
http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Popcorn-Necklace
Although that reminds me of one of the most bizarre Ed M 'attacks' during the GE - "Have a look at this list of accomplished, intelligent, attractive women who all went out with Ed M; what a weirdo he is", or that felt like the gist at any rate.
Hmmm, that is twice in as many days that I have found myself fully agreeing with, indeed actually applauding, your posts. I might have to go and lie down.
Ken will be pleased with the changes brought about by Eric Pickles. Now only a court of law can remove you from office following a conviction of the necessary severity that disqualifies you from holding the office.
There is a bit in "Cabin In The Woods" where they pump stupid gas into the cabin to make the teenagers split up and go to different parts of the house, despite the fact that it is a conspicuously stupid thing to do. This act of self-immolation by Labour can be interpreted as a sacrifice to the Great Old Ones of Socialism.
If you want to know what people are really like, watch them when faced with a choice when all the options are unacceptable. Labour are in this unenviable position and are not entirely rational at the moment.
I know he's not running for office right now - but it seems to be in the back of his mind in every post. No point in rocking the boat and saving your feet for later.
Why do we have so few people of that vital quality in politics today? Is it lack of quality education, family background or just lacking leadership qualities (or perhaps that experience from youth).
@jimwaterson COOPER,KENDALL,BURNHAM,SHOULD DO THE HONEST THING,AND F-CK OFF TO THERE --"NAZI"--TORY MATES,LIKE PRESS/MEDIA -PEOPLE HATERS,
Complete misunderstanding of the National Socialism stance of the Nazi's.
You’re right on one thing; Jezza does not do compromise. He never has done. Once a student activist, always a student activist.
He knows best and he will insist on having his way. So that bodes well for homeopathy, at least.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/15/kezia-dugdale-elected-scottish-labour-leader
Blair should have gone for PR in 97 after winning that majority.
It would then have been seen as a noble thing to do for the country and not a position for partisan advantage.
edit: I see Miss @Plato beat me to it. And with an wiki link and everything!
I agree with that too, I don't want some bureaucratic body deciding who I can vote for.
As far as I can see, Corbyn has behaved gracefully under very unreasonable attacks. I certainly admire him for that.
I think it is worthwhile Labour learning the lessons of 2015, but on one thing Corbyn is surely right. The increasing inequality of the UK, and increasing reluctance of the very rich and of big companies to pay tax, is one of the most important issues facing the UK. That has a real resonance with the public, and it is not being articulated elsewhere.
If Corbyn is leader, and he manages to divert the energies of a united Labour Party into tackling this issue, then I see no reason why he might not win in 2020. 2020 will not be a re-run of 2015. Different issues will be important, and we will have had 10 years of cutbacks.
And a completely unpredictable Euro referendum.
If some of his supporters react like they do on social media , there will be plenty of heat on both sides.
Unless we are using the modern definition of smear - people saying things the other side disagrees with.
My own view as regards national politics is that the career path of Researcher -> SpaD -> Safe Seat -> Minister has become too prevalent and has lead to too many people at the top who have too little experience but are of the same mindset (regardless of party). That is to say they have not far progressed beyond the Student Union stage of politics.and will only, as far as it is possible, promote people in their own image. We are in the age of the professional politician but with a system designed for gentlefolk amateurs.
David Miliband may have been just as much a loser as his brother who beat him.
However this doesn't really work, I think, in the case of Corbyn, because as far as is apparent he hasn't changed his mind on anything in 30 years. Even despite the vastly changed circumstances in the world today. So pretty much anything used against him from his past seems to be fair comment.
Just because some discredited chap with a beard says it, does not make it true.
I worry about people who say that “the science is settled.” They are always proved wrong.
Lord Kelvin, President of the Royal Society from 1890 to 1895 declared that “There is nothing new to be discovered in physics now. All that remains is more and more precise measurement."
A few years later, a revolution occurred with the discovery of relativity and quantum theory.
Sometimes it’s the problem of correlation and causation. More recently, who can forget the fat is bad hypothesis? Cholesterol is bad, therefore eggs are bad. Studies showed a correlation between fat intake and heart disease, between cholesterol level and heart disease. There was definitely a consensus that reducing fat intake was the answer.
But there were facts still be discovered. Some types of lipoproteins are good. And there are different forms of HDL-cholesterol, different forms of LDL-cholesterol and various forms of apolipoproteins. Now carbohydrates are becoming the enemy (especially fructose). Who knows what the future holds? But it shows the problem of relying on surveys that are retrospective.
The gold standard for distinguishing correlation from causation is the double blind study. Follow groups chosen to be similar for all known factors and vary one of them. And don’t tell the participants or directors which is which.
Compared to lipid metabolism, climate change is vastly more complicated. Is carbon dioxide increase a causation or just a vague correlation? We need to divide the earth into two equal portions and increase CO2 in just one while all other factors remain the same - and there are far more factors involved here, some known and some unknown.
There is a scientific consensus but it is always a guess, an educated guess, but a guess.
We should be finding ways to disprove the current hypothesis, not looking for ways to support it. That is real science.
It might be right, but is it worth spending fortunes onjust a good guess? Jezza will.
Do we feel lucky, punk?
I'll get my coat.
Creating a popcorn necklace involves threading bits of it onto a string, that is very different from tying bits of it together. Threading != Bundling. If the OP had said "... threads of popcorn..." then Mr. Flaming Picky would not have come down from his watchtower.