We have a series of treats to look forward to and which Corbynites such as Nick Palmer can enjoy as their unspun, straight-talking hero triumphs: The first Andrew Neil interview. The first PMQ The first Conference speech as leader The first Remembrance Sunday The first Budget response The 100 year anniversary of the Easter Rising And so on.
It should be invigorating stuff as The British public learns more about the man the Labour party believes should be the next Prime Minister.
Tbh I can't see what all the fuss was about with Foot's jacket. Indeed the Queen mother noted it was a sensible enough coat...
Corbyn OTOH is likely to be wearing a white poppy as he is a pacifist :P
The Foot story is a myth. It was a proper coat, not a donkey jacket.
I don't think that Corbyn will be as bad at these things as many people might think. He seems a remarkable calm person who will take these duties seriously.
He has worn a white (peace pledge union) poppy as well as a red one on previous remembrance commemorations. Not unreasonable in my view. The PPU explains and sells its white poppies here:
You think a pacifist organisation trying to hijack the Royal British Legion's poppy memorial to push a political agenda is not unreasonable?
The traditional poppy isn't about militarism or pacifism it is about both remembering those who lost their lives in war and aiding those who've served (or their families) are are affected by it.
The white poppy is to commemorate all victims of war, military and civilian, and to remember them by trying to eliminate the causes of war.
Translation: to push a political agenda.
Remembrance Day and the Poppy Appeal are non-partisan and non-political. You may think its acceptable to try and hijack the Poppy Appeal to score political points, I suspect most of the country will disagree with you and Corbyn.
Corbyn doesn't seem to have many friends on this site - maybe Mike should be renaming the site ABC Political Betting until 12th September !!
I think you'll find Jeremy Corbyn has lots of friends on this site until 12 September. We're all keenly invested in him.
Indeed. As a newly registered supporter of the Labour Party, I have just this morning received my first official email from the Corbyn Campaign.
Let's hope people return the favour when it comes to the next Tory leadership election.
If the Conservative Party offers £3 entryists a vote then they'd deserve the favour to be returned.
Its upto parties to write their own rules. The fact the Labour Party couldn't even organise a whelk stall or a leadership race for their members let alone the country is not SeanT's fault.
SeanF "austerity...is considered necessary". Today, yes. But tomorrow? If there is another downturn there will be no shortage of people willing to believe that austerity has not worked, or was even the cause.
Immigration is a harder gap to bridge, but then it is not as like the Conservatives offer anything radical in that respect.
I am a Conservative, but of the socially liberal wing of the party (non-member) and on here I try (usually) to be non-partisan. I am more interested in analysis than the thrust and parry of partisan debate. And I am a little contrarian, so I was posting heavily about Miliband's inadequacy and unsuitability for office when we was at his peak during the Summer of 2011, and if I was posting more frequently now I would be mainly posting about the risks facing the Conservatives, contra the prevailing narrative. I don't have the opportunity to post often these days.
OT: I've made it onto a course for Mathematics and Computer Science (MSci) at Birmingham University. Despite obviously disliking the tuition fees I recognise their necessity and am grateful to the Tories for lifting the student number cap. If Labour get back into power in 2020 (in some crazy parallel universe) I'll be burdened with higher taxes and will still have the student debt burden. Worst of both worlds. Student debt made me into a conservative.
Jezza has promised to end tuition fees and wipeout existing student debt. You may want to reconsider your vote!
Too late to sign up to vote for Corbyn I'm afraid !
Standing to deliver
Dear
In the last few weeks many people have signed up as Labour supporters and members.
If you are a brand new joiner to our party, I want to welcome you. If you have been a member in the past and have come back, welcome home.
I believe Westminster politics forgot something - it's that if you stop giving people a reason to vote, loyalty evaporates along with votes.
That’s why my campaign has stood for straight-talking, honest politics. You can read more about what I’m standing to deliver here.
My campaign is giving people a clear reason which is a choice between another five years or more of self-inflicted pain and austerity or investing our way to a prosperous and fairer society. A lot of people, both new and former Labour supporters seem to agree with us that this is the sensible way forward.
I am standing to deliver a new kind of politics of a fairer, kinder Britain based on innovation, decent jobs and decent public services.
If you want to be involved in my campaign for Labour leadership, please join our movement here.
OT: I've made it onto a course for Mathematics and Computer Science (MSci) at Birmingham University. Despite obviously disliking the tuition fees I recognise their necessity and am grateful to the Tories for lifting the student number cap. If Labour get back into power in 2020 (in some crazy parallel universe) I'll be burdened with higher taxes and will still have the student debt burden. Worst of both worlds. Student debt made me into a conservative.
Jezza has promised to end tuition fees and wipeout existing student debt. You may want to reconsider your vote!
Yeah but he compensates for the retrospectivity with 'even' higher taxation than all of the other labour candidates. Not to mention with the uncapped numbers the amount of student debt could begin to rise dramatically to a point when that promise becomes even more ridiculous.
The election that matters won't be happening for nearly five more years. There's plenty of time for Corbyn's bubble to be popped in the five years coming. Plus the unions can't stuff the ballots with new voters in a general election.
Also at the next GE are the population really going to elect someone who is 71 (and therefore has at least a reasonable chance of dying in office) over someone probably in their mid or late 40s ? Can't see it to be honest.
Corbyn won't lead Labour into the next GE. He has far too much toxic baggage to survive five years. The question is whether he goes before or after the party's constitution has been rewritten. If it is before there will be some hope of a Labour revival. If it is afterwards, there is very little chance of that. The best case scenario is that he is forced to resign, so leaving the PLP - chastened and hugely relieved - to nominate those who will slug it out to succeed him.
Corbyn doesn't seem to have many friends on this site - maybe Mike should be renaming the site ABC Political Betting until 12th September !!
I think you'll find Jeremy Corbyn has lots of friends on this site until 12 September. We're all keenly invested in him.
Indeed. As a newly registered supporter of the Labour Party, I have just this morning received my first official email from the Corbyn Campaign.
Let's hope people return the favour when it comes to the next Tory leadership election.
If the Conservative Party offers £3 entryists a vote then they'd deserve the favour to be returned.
Its upto parties to write their own rules. The fact the Labour Party couldn't even organise a whelk stall or a leadership race for their members let alone the country is not SeanT's fault.
Exactly! Had Labour won the election and the Tories were now electing a new leader then the only voters would have been those who were Tory members prior to the election. Eminently sane and reasonable.
If Labour entryists want to join the Tory Party prior to the next election and pay full membership duties before the next election in case we lose and there's a vote afterwards then good luck to them.
We have a series of treats to look forward to and which Corbynites such as Nick Palmer can enjoy as their unspun, straight-talking hero triumphs: The first Andrew Neil interview. The first PMQ The first Conference speech as leader The first Remembrance Sunday The first Budget response The 100 year anniversary of the Easter Rising And so on.
It should be invigorating stuff as The British public learns more about the man the Labour party believes should be the next Prime Minister.
Tbh I can't see what all the fuss was about with Foot's jacket. Indeed the Queen mother noted it was a sensible enough coat...
Corbyn OTOH is likely to be wearing a white poppy as he is a pacifist :P
The Foot story is a myth. It was a proper coat, not a donkey jacket.
I don't think that Corbyn will be as bad at these things as many people might think. He seems a remarkable calm person who will take these duties seriously.
He has worn a white (peace pledge union) poppy as well as a red one on previous remembrance commemorations. Not unreasonable in my view. The PPU explains and sells its white poppies here:
You think a pacifist organisation trying to hijack the Royal British Legion's poppy memorial to push a political agenda is not unreasonable?
The traditional poppy isn't about militarism or pacifism it is about both remembering those who lost their lives in war and aiding those who've served (or their families) are are affected by it.
The white poppy is to commemorate all victims of war, military and civilian, and to remember them by trying to eliminate the causes of war.
Translation: to push a political agenda.
Remembrance Day and the Poppy Appeal are non-partisan and non-political. You may think its acceptable to try and hijack the Poppy Appeal to score political points, I suspect most of the country will disagree with you and Corbyn.
He wears a red poppy too! And yes, I do not expect it to be popular, but since when has that been Corbyn's priority?
He may well provoke some serious discussion on the role of the military in the modern world, "the savage wars of peace".
We have a series of treats to look forward to and which Corbynites such as Nick Palmer can enjoy as their unspun, straight-talking hero triumphs: The first Andrew Neil interview. The first PMQ The first Conference speech as leader The first Remembrance Sunday The first Budget response The 100 year anniversary of the Easter Rising And so on.
It should be invigorating stuff as The British public learns more about the man the Labour party believes should be the next Prime Minister.
Tbh I can't see what all the fuss was about with Foot's jacket. Indeed the Queen mother noted it was a sensible enough coat...
Corbyn OTOH is likely to be wearing a white poppy as he is a pacifist :P
The Foot story is a myth. It was a proper coat, not a donkey jacket.
I don't think that Corbyn will be as bad at these things as many people might think. He seems a remarkable calm person who will take these duties seriously.
He has worn a white (peace pledge union) poppy as well as a red one on previous remembrance commemorations. Not unreasonable in my view. The PPU explains and sells its white poppies here:
You think a pacifist organisation trying to hijack the Royal British Legion's poppy memorial to push a political agenda is not unreasonable?
The traditional poppy isn't about militarism or pacifism it is about both remembering those who lost their lives in war and aiding those who've served (or their families) are are affected by it.
The white poppy is to commemorate all victims of war, military and civilian, and to remember them by trying to eliminate the causes of war.
Most people would want to eliminate the causes of war. If only! Doesn't mean you cannot be grateful to those who died to give you your current freedoms.
You would not even have the choice to wear a white poppy if the Nazis were in charge (think: North Korea). I think wearing a red poppy does not make you someone who likes or wants war, quite the reverse as it reminds you of the true cost of war.
SeanF "austerity...is considered necessary". Today, yes. But tomorrow? If there is another downturn there will be no shortage of people willing to believe that austerity has not worked, or was even the cause.
Immigration is a harder gap to bridge, but then it is not as like the Conservatives offer anything radical in that respect.
I am a Conservative, but of the socially liberal wing of the party (non-member) and on here I try (usually) to be non-partisan. I am more interested in analysis than the thrust and parry of partisan debate. And I am a little contrarian, so I was posting heavily about Miliband's inadequacy and unsuitability for office when we was at his peak during the Summer of 2011, and if I was posting more frequently now I would be mainly posting about the risks facing the Conservatives, contra the prevailing narrative. I don't have the opportunity to post often these days.
Corbyn doesn't seem to have many friends on this site - maybe Mike should be renaming the site ABC Political Betting until 12th September !!
I think you'll find Jeremy Corbyn has lots of friends on this site until 12 September. We're all keenly invested in him.
Indeed. As a newly registered supporter of the Labour Party, I have just this morning received my first official email from the Corbyn Campaign.
Let's hope people return the favour when it comes to the next Tory leadership election.
If the Conservative Party offers £3 entryists a vote then they'd deserve the favour to be returned.
Its upto parties to write their own rules. The fact the Labour Party couldn't even organise a whelk stall or a leadership race for their members let alone the country is not SeanT's fault.
Labour had a 35 MP minimum to give them protection, which they then refused to use.
SO - worth noting that the influx of new members may well have fundamentally changed the Labour party. Even if Corbyn's reign ends in failure, the new Labour electorate are, I would suspect, more left wing than the pre-election membership. That would suggest that even if Corbyn has a short and unhappy reign, the lessons may not be learned quickly.
"He may well have finally put the brakes on the SNP juggernaut up here in Scotland, he is certainly drowning out the usually North Korean style SNP PR machine in the local news with some positive media attention of his own"
Fitalass wrong again. I know that is not news :-)
Assuming a Corbyn victory, his opposition to any meaningful further devolution will render a surge in Scotland pretty much dead on arrival.
Even if he were popular in Scotland, the political incompetence of both of the SLAB leadership contenders in condemning him before he became hot favourite will be used widely by the "SNP PR machine".
Further, as Corbyn has indicated that he would be kind enough to accept SNP support to put Labour in power, why would anyone bother to switch from SNP to Labour at GE 2020?
Only yesterday C4 news interviewed several young Scots who said they may switch from SNP to a Corbyn led Labour Party
OT: I've made it onto a course for Mathematics and Computer Science (MSci) at Birmingham University. Despite obviously disliking the tuition fees I recognise their necessity and am grateful to the Tories for lifting the student number cap. If Labour get back into power in 2020 (in some crazy parallel universe) I'll be burdened with higher taxes and will still have the student debt burden. Worst of both worlds. Student debt made me into a conservative.
Jezza has promised to end tuition fees and wipeout existing student debt. You may want to reconsider your vote!
Welcome to Dhimmie-magic-money-tree-lundt. Try not to be ill when visiting Leicester....
Good points from Mr Herdson. It was Labour who introduced privatisation in the NHS and Brown in the 2010 manifesto who promised more of it. The anti privatisation rhetoric of leftie loonies like Corbyn and his mob is just plain old fashioned state control nationalisation bigotry. It also more than hints that spending would run totally out of control under Corbyn. BTW - if Labour MPs are so upset over the voting system that looks like electing Corbyn, then why the hell did they nominate him in the first place when they did not have to? Even the sanest Labour MP is in the end a thick dummy.
We have a series of treats to look forward to and which Corbynites such as Nick Palmer can enjoy as their unspun, straight-talking hero triumphs: The first Andrew Neil interview. The first PMQ The first Conference speech as leader The first Remembrance Sunday The first Budget response The 100 year anniversary of the Easter Rising And so on.
It should be invigorating stuff as The British public learns more about the man the Labour party believes should be the next Prime Minister.
Tbh I can't see what all the fuss was about with Foot's jacket. Indeed the Queen mother noted it was a sensible enough coat...
Corbyn OTOH is likely to be wearing a white poppy as he is a pacifist :P
The Foot story is a myth. It was a proper coat, not a donkey jacket.
I don't think that Corbyn will be as bad at these things as many people might think. He seems a remarkable calm person who will take these duties seriously.
He has worn a white (peace pledge union) poppy as well as a red one on previous remembrance commemorations. Not unreasonable in my view. The PPU explains and sells its white poppies here:
You think a pacifist organisation trying to hijack the Royal British Legion's poppy memorial to push a political agenda is not unreasonable?
The traditional poppy isn't about militarism or pacifism it is about both remembering those who lost their lives in war and aiding those who've served (or their families) are are affected by it.
The white poppy is to commemorate all victims of war, military and civilian, and to remember them by trying to eliminate the causes of war.
Most people would want to eliminate the causes of war. If only! Doesn't mean you cannot be grateful to those who died to give you your current freedoms.
You would not even have the choice to wear a white poppy if the Nazis were in charge (think: North Korea). I think wearing a red poppy does not make you someone who likes or wants war, quite the reverse as it reminds you of the true cost of war.
The true cost of war is mostly borne by civilians, 90% of the deaths due to war in the 20th century were civilians.
I do not wear a white poppy, but I acknowledge that those who do often have very strong reasons to do so.
We have a series of treats to look forward to and which Corbynites such as Nick Palmer can enjoy as their unspun, straight-talking hero triumphs: The first Andrew Neil interview. The first PMQ The first Conference speech as leader The first Remembrance Sunday The first Budget response The 100 year anniversary of the Easter Rising And so on.
It should be invigorating stuff as The British public learns more about the man the Labour party believes should be the next Prime Minister.
Tbh I can't see what all the fuss was about with Foot's jacket. Indeed the Queen mother noted it was a sensible enough coat...
Corbyn OTOH is likely to be wearing a white poppy as he is a pacifist :P
The Foot story is a myth. It was a proper coat, not a donkey jacket.
I don't think that Corbyn will be as bad at these things as many people might think. He seems a remarkable calm person who will take these duties seriously.
He has worn a white (peace pledge union) poppy as well as a red one on previous remembrance commemorations. Not unreasonable in my view. The PPU explains and sells its white poppies here:
You think a pacifist organisation trying to hijack the Royal British Legion's poppy memorial to push a political agenda is not unreasonable?
The traditional poppy isn't about militarism or pacifism it is about both remembering those who lost their lives in war and aiding those who've served (or their families) are are affected by it.
The white poppy is to commemorate all victims of war, military and civilian, and to remember them by trying to eliminate the causes of war.
Most people would want to eliminate the causes of war. If only! Doesn't mean you cannot be grateful to those who died to give you your current freedoms.
You would not even have the choice to wear a white poppy if the Nazis were in charge (think: North Korea). I think wearing a red poppy does not make you someone who likes or wants war, quite the reverse as it reminds you of the true cost of war.
"He may well have finally put the brakes on the SNP juggernaut up here in Scotland, he is certainly drowning out the usually North Korean style SNP PR machine in the local news with some positive media attention of his own"
Fitalass wrong again. I know that is not news :-)
Assuming a Corbyn victory, his opposition to any meaningful further devolution will render a surge in Scotland pretty much dead on arrival.
Even if he were popular in Scotland, the political incompetence of both of the SLAB leadership contenders in condemning him before he became hot favourite will be used widely by the "SNP PR machine".
Further, as Corbyn has indicated that he would be kind enough to accept SNP support to put Labour in power, why would anyone bother to switch from SNP to Labour at GE 2020?
Only yesterday C4 news interviewed several young Scots who said they may switch from SNP to a Corbyn led Labour Party
Utterly meaningless drivel. The media can find anyone who says they might switch from anything to anything, before the election the media constantly had voters who were considering switching to a Miliband led Labour Party. How did that play out?
"I am standing to deliver a new kind of politics of a fairer, kinder Britain based on innovation, decent jobs and decent public services."
WTF does this actually mean? How is Corbyn going to deliver this kinder, fairer Britain? How is he going to produce "decent" jobs?
I'm beginning to believe that anybody who actually wants to be an MP should be banned from being one, and if you dream about being PM, you should be sectioned.
Remembrance Day and the Poppy Appeal are non-partisan and non-political.
Yes, it's marvellous how our politicians completely distance themselves from these ceremonies and rituals.
The politicians play their roles in a non-partisan manner. Last year we had Ed, Dave and Nick all line up next to each other with a wreath not taking any pot shots at each other.
Ken Livingstone was vilified by the MSM as SO is doing now. Blair tried everything possible to stop him having the chance to become London Mayor.
I at the time thought Ken Livingstone would not be a good choice. However he did some good things for London between 2000 to2008. I was wrong and I could be about Corbyn . These are difficult times to predict.
There is a very big difference between choosing a mayor, even for a city as large as London, and choosing a government and prime minister.
I agree David. However even you did not predict the rise of the SNP after the referendum. You did not predict the rise of Corbyn. All the political commentators have been way behind the curve. If we had PR and not FPTP the Labour Party and the Conservatives would go their separate ways. However as a died in the wool tory this will never be your position. Even if it was better for the democratic process and the country. Partisans either Labour or Tory will eventually have to succombe to the end of the rotten boroughs where it is a waste of time voting.
"He may well have finally put the brakes on the SNP juggernaut up here in Scotland, he is certainly drowning out the usually North Korean style SNP PR machine in the local news with some positive media attention of his own"
Fitalass wrong again. I know that is not news :-)
Assuming a Corbyn victory, his opposition to any meaningful further devolution will render a surge in Scotland pretty much dead on arrival.
Even if he were popular in Scotland, the political incompetence of both of the SLAB leadership contenders in condemning him before he became hot favourite will be used widely by the "SNP PR machine".
Further, as Corbyn has indicated that he would be kind enough to accept SNP support to put Labour in power, why would anyone bother to switch from SNP to Labour at GE 2020?
Only yesterday C4 news interviewed several young Scots who said they may switch from SNP to a Corbyn led Labour Party
SO - worth noting that the influx of new members may well have fundamentally changed the Labour party. Even if Corbyn's reign ends in failure, the new Labour electorate are, I would suspect, more left wing than the pre-election membership. That would suggest that even if Corbyn has a short and unhappy reign, the lessons may not be learned quickly.
Until 2020 the PLP will clearly be to the right of the party (or the £3 bit if it), but it will decide who contests the leadership - unless JC finds a way to change the rules. That will require a lot of careful preparation work and will take time, especially as the main levers of internal power (NEC etc) are not necessarily going to be fully Corbynite in outlook. Tom Watson, as deputy leader, will be very powerful internally too, so how he decides to play things will be crucial.
Christ, someone get the smelling salts. SO is hysterical.
Not really. I'll be absolutely fine with 10-15 more years of Tory government as they look after people like me. It's just a shame to see the party that did so much to ensure I got the opportunities I did put itself in a position of unelectability by choosing a leader who is not only economically illiterate but also the serial friend of this country's enemies. That said, if choosing him makrs you feel good about yourself, who am I to argue? Go for it.
Of course he is facing a Tory party that armed the Saudis, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Pinochet, Suharto and Islamist extremists in Libya, Syria and Afghanistan, many of the above hardly being known for pro-Jew or liberal outlooks.
They also actively collaborated militarily with terrorist groups in Ireland, rather than just suggesting talking with them.
Corbyn has stood shoulder to shoulder with enemies of this country for decades. He has observed minute silences for the murderers of British troops. If you are comfortable with that, so be it.
What enemies of the UK has he stood shoulder to shoulder since the end of hostilities in Northern Ireland nearly two decades ago? (I dispute that he stood shoulder to shoulder with the IRA anyway, but accepting your definitions for now.) I have been looking into this fabled 1987 minutes silence story which I believe follows precisely the half-truth right wing propaganda nonsense that David Herdson was talking about (which incidentally I think play out a lot less effectively in an era where oligarchs don't have quite such a stranglehold on information, though they still work to an extent, hence the continual torrent of bilge that still comes out of the right wing establishment propaganda machine). It's actually hard to find any actual primary sources for this alleged event, as a Google search just turns up endless copied links from a handful of the usual propaganda suspects. But it appears from fragments of available evidence that the event in question was protesting against the shoot to kill policy in general, which was also responsible for the deaths of civilians, as opposed to a celebration of the 'murderers of British troops'. Takes on quite a different tenor in that light.
"I am standing to deliver a new kind of politics of a fairer, kinder Britain based on innovation, decent jobs and decent public services."
WTF does this actually mean? How is Corbyn going to deliver this kinder, fairer Britain? How is he going to produce "decent" jobs?
I'm beginning to believe that anybody who actually wants to be an MP should be banned from being one, and if you dream about being PM, you should be sectioned.
Mr. Stopper, I think one of the earliest kings of Rome (Numa?) not only didn't try to get the job, he didn't even want it. Others decided he was the best chap for the job and more or less forced him into it.
We have a series of treats to look forward to and which Corbynites such as Nick Palmer can enjoy as their unspun, straight-talking hero triumphs: The first Andrew Neil interview. The first PMQ The first Conference speech as leader The first Remembrance Sunday The first Budget response The 100 year anniversary of the Easter Rising And so on.
It should be invigorating stuff as The British public learns more about the man the Labour party believes should be the next Prime Minister.
Tbh I can't see what all the fuss was about with Foot's jacket. Indeed the Queen mother noted it was a sensible enough coat...
Corbyn OTOH is likely to be wearing a white poppy as he is a pacifist :P
The Foot story is a myth. It was a proper coat, not a donkey jacket.
I don't think that Corbyn will be as bad at these things as many people might think. He seems a remarkable calm person who will take these duties seriously.
He has worn a white (peace pledge union) poppy as well as a red one on previous remembrance commemorations. Not unreasonable in my view. The PPU explains and sells its white poppies here:
You think a pacifist organisation trying to hijack the Royal British Legion's poppy memorial to push a political agenda is not unreasonable?
The traditional poppy isn't about militarism or pacifism it is about both remembering those who lost their lives in war and aiding those who've served (or their families) are are affected by it.
That's the way I see it as well. The problem with the white poppy is, some of those who wear it, for the reason they claim, are implicitly criticising those who don't, as though the red poppy is glorifying war or militarism. Maybe it did once, IDK, but it certainly doesn't now, so another type seems unnecessary as I certainly remember those military and civilian who lost their lives and hope to see similar loss avoided, unless one is making a political statement as intentionally or not they are saying those who wear the red one are not thinking those things.
But I'll save that pet peeve for later in the year.
"He may well have finally put the brakes on the SNP juggernaut up here in Scotland, he is certainly drowning out the usually North Korean style SNP PR machine in the local news with some positive media attention of his own"
Fitalass wrong again. I know that is not news :-)
Assuming a Corbyn victory, his opposition to any meaningful further devolution will render a surge in Scotland pretty much dead on arrival.
Even if he were popular in Scotland, the political incompetence of both of the SLAB leadership contenders in condemning him before he became hot favourite will be used widely by the "SNP PR machine".
Further, as Corbyn has indicated that he would be kind enough to accept SNP support to put Labour in power, why would anyone bother to switch from SNP to Labour at GE 2020?
Only yesterday C4 news interviewed several young Scots who said they may switch from SNP to a Corbyn led Labour Party
Before Corbyn could take the fight to the SNP he first has to deal with SLAB - which lives in a perpetual state of civil war. Worth remembering that John McT who seems to have appointed himself as Witchfinder General on matters ABC is still SLAB's Chief off Staff - I think John McT and Blair McD would go as far as barricading themselves into SLAB's office in Glasgow to keep Corbyn out !!
OT: I've made it onto a course for Mathematics and Computer Science (MSci) at Birmingham University. Despite obviously disliking the tuition fees I recognise their necessity and am grateful to the Tories for lifting the student number cap. If Labour get back into power in 2020 (in some crazy parallel universe) I'll be burdened with higher taxes and will still have the student debt burden. Worst of both worlds. Student debt made me into a conservative.
I hope you do well and use your training to go into a technical career. There's always demand for the top people in any field, and if you make that your aim you will find paying off your student loan is no great burden. You'll also find that you need to continually update your skills, so Mr Corbyn's National Education Service might be of great help to you and will help you compete with similar folk in other countries more effectively. That might be well worth paying more tax to fund.
Politics aside, I have always been unhappy when my taxes have gone up but never felt any joy at all when they went down. If I am remotely typical, it is little wonder that politicians are never popular. There'll never be a way to please everybody and there are plenty of ways to please nobody.
We have a series of treats to look forward to and which Corbynites such as Nick Palmer can enjoy as their unspun, straight-talking hero triumphs: The first Andrew Neil interview. The first PMQ The first Conference speech as leader The first Remembrance Sunday The first Budget response The 100 year anniversary of the Easter Rising And so on.
It should be invigorating stuff as The British public learns more about the man the Labour party believes should be the next Prime Minister.
Tbh I can't see what all the fuss was about with Foot's jacket. Indeed the Queen mother noted it was a sensible enough coat...
Corbyn OTOH is likely to be wearing a white poppy as he is a pacifist :P
The Foot story is a myth. It was a proper coat, not a donkey jacket.
I don't think that Corbyn will be as bad at these things as many people might think. He seems a remarkable calm person who will take these duties seriously.
He has worn a white (peace pledge union) poppy as well as a red one on previous remembrance commemorations. Not unreasonable in my view. The PPU explains and sells its white poppies here:
You think a pacifist organisation trying to hijack the Royal British Legion's poppy memorial to push a political agenda is not unreasonable?
The traditional poppy isn't about militarism or pacifism it is about both remembering those who lost their lives in war and aiding those who've served (or their families) are are affected by it.
The white poppy is to commemorate all victims of war, military and civilian, and to remember them by trying to eliminate the causes of war.
Translation: to push a political agenda.
Remembrance Day and the Poppy Appeal are non-partisan and non-political. You may think its acceptable to try and hijack the Poppy Appeal to score political points, I suspect most of the country will disagree with you and Corbyn.
Mr. Stopper, I think one of the earliest kings of Rome (Numa?) not only didn't try to get the job, he didn't even want it. Others decided he was the best chap for the job and more or less forced him into it.
That sounds like the best way forward. I'm forcing Southam Observer to step up and be PM.
We have a series of treats to look forward to and which Corbynites such as Nick Palmer can enjoy as their unspun, straight-talking hero triumphs: The first Andrew Neil interview. The first PMQ The first Conference speech as leader The first Remembrance Sunday The first Budget response The 100 year anniversary of the Easter Rising And so on.
It should be invigorating stuff as The British public learns more about the man the Labour party believes should be the next Prime Minister.
Tbh I can't see what all the fuss was about with Foot's jacket. Indeed the Queen mother noted it was a sensible enough coat...
Corbyn OTOH is likely to be wearing a white poppy as he is a pacifist :P
The Foot story is a myth. It was a proper coat, not a donkey jacket.
I don't think that Corbyn will be as bad at these things as many people might think. He seems a remarkable calm person who will take these duties seriously.
He has worn a white (peace pledge union) poppy as well as a red one on previous remembrance commemorations. Not unreasonable in my view. The PPU explains and sells its white poppies here:
You think a pacifist organisation trying to hijack
The white poppy is to commemorate all victims of war, military and civilian, and to remember them by trying to eliminate the causes of war.
Most people would want to eliminate the causes of war. If only! Doesn't mean you cannot be grateful to those who died to give you your current freedoms.
You would not even have the choice to wear a white poppy if the Nazis were in charge (think: North Korea). I think wearing a red poppy does not make you someone who likes or wants war, quite the reverse as it reminds you of the true cost of war.
I didn't expect it to be popular; and I think a lot of people are just "virtue signalling" with red poppies too. The same people that would never let a family member serve in the forces, and turn their noses up at the rough fellows that do serve, apart from one day a year.
SO - worth noting that the influx of new members may well have fundamentally changed the Labour party. Even if Corbyn's reign ends in failure, the new Labour electorate are, I would suspect, more left wing than the pre-election membership. That would suggest that even if Corbyn has a short and unhappy reign, the lessons may not be learned quickly.
Until 2020 the PLP will clearly be to the right of the party (or the £3 bit if it), but it will decide who contests the leadership - unless JC finds a way to change the rules. That will require a lot of careful preparation work and will take time, especially as the main levers of internal power (NEC etc) are not necessarily going to be fully Corbynite in outlook. Tom Watson, as deputy leader, will be very powerful internally too, so how he decides to play things will be crucial.
Though even if a new election were to be found the PLP will take into account a landslide Corbyn victory with the Labour selectorate. MPs are selfish as well as principled and will nominate not just the candidate they think is best but the candidate they think will win as it will further their own career to back the winner (cf Gordon Brown).
If the PLP think the selectorate will choose the most left-wing candidate again then there will be plenty of MPs willing to nominate the left wing MPs they think could win.
Corbyn will fall apart soon after winning because his lala land brand of politics never has and never will stand up to scrutiny, it's nothing to do with smearing. Equality and freedom are incompatible, the socialist desire for equality (however they wish to define it) can only be at the expense of freedom and we value that above all else.
It's odd that he's got to his age without that dawning on him, we all gravitate to where we're comfortable, I suspect that as a veggie teetotal he spends the majority of his time with likeminded people. There's clearly plenty like him within labour happy to have him as labour but the country at large won't accept it. Regardless of what you think of the new labour sycophants, they know it too.
"Equality and freedom are incompatible"
That sounds like rubbish to me. Care to explain?
It's a logical construct: if you desire absolute equality of outcome, then you can only do so by controlling outcomes and hence restricting the freedom to select other outcomes.
It's why Conservatives are so keen on equality of opportunity rather than outcome: the most talented should be able to succeed without any artificial boundaries (race, sex, etc) being put in their way; this is why access to education is so critical.
Of course, in theory, any action to narrow inequality (I'm thinking of redistributive tax policies, for instance) is a restriction of freedom, but most of us live in the real world rather than being Paulistas and accept that there is a trade off between unadulterated freedom and a stable and harmonious society
What enemies of the UK has he stood shoulder to shoulder since the end of hostilities in Northern Ireland nearly two decades ago? (I dispute that he stood shoulder to shoulder with the IRA anyway, but accepting your definitions for now.)
What enemies of the UK has he stood shoulder to shoulder since the end of hostilities in Northern Ireland nearly two decades ago? (I dispute that he stood shoulder to shoulder with the IRA anyway, but accepting your definitions for now.)
Do you count the dictator Hugo Chavez?
Is Hugo Chavez our enemy? What has he ever done to us?
"Re names to watch - Corbyn's office newbie Cat Smith."
Someone who likes to tick all the boxes. An LBGT feminist with a degree in gender studies, but a Christian and marrying a man. If only she were black and disabled, she'd have a full house.
On topic, I think the Labour party actually need Corbyn as leader at this point. They're unelectable in their current incarnation. Corbyn will at least polarise the various factions in the party, and something good might rise from the ashes that I can actually vote for.
As an aside, a Corbyn victory will be good for Labour. Not because Corbyn will be a good leader. On the contrary, he will be a disaster. But his disastrousness will be so plainly evident so rapidly, that he will step down as leader - probably after losing a byelection in a safe seat to UKIP or the LibDems.
This will result in a new Labour leader. And a leader less monumentally awful than Kendall, Cooper or Burnham. (All of whom would have led the Labour Party to defeat in 2020.)
Corbyn will fall apart soon after winning because his lala land brand of politics never has and never will stand up to scrutiny, it's nothing to do with smearing. Equality and freedom are incompatible, the socialist desire for equality (however they wish to define it) can only be at the expense of freedom and we value that above all else.
It's odd that he's got to his age without that dawning on him, we all gravitate to where we're comfortable, I suspect that as a veggie teetotal he spends the majority of his time with likeminded people. There's clearly plenty like him within labour happy to have him as labour but the country at large won't accept it. Regardless of what you think of the new labour sycophants, they know it too.
"Equality and freedom are incompatible"
That sounds like rubbish to me. Care to explain?
It's a logical construct: if you desire absolute equality of outcome, then you can only do so by controlling outcomes and hence restricting the freedom to select other outcomes.
It's why Conservatives are so keen on equality of opportunity rather than outcome: the most talented should be able to succeed without any artificial boundaries (race, sex, etc) being put in their way; this is why access to education is so critical.
Of course, in theory, any action to narrow inequality (I'm thinking of redistributive tax policies, for instance) is a restriction of freedom, but most of us live in the real world rather than being Paulistas and accept that there is a trade off between unadulterated freedom and a stable and harmonious society
If Conservatives are in favour of equality of opportunity shouldn't they be in favour of high death duties? Also shouldn't they be opposed to private education? Come to that shouldn't they support free tertiary education? In fact, to ensure equality of opportunity would require quite extensive state intervention. That doesn't sound at all like the kinds of the policies advocate or implement.
Remembrance Day and the Poppy Appeal are non-partisan and non-political.
Yes, it's marvellous how our politicians completely distance themselves from these ceremonies and rituals.
The politicians play their roles in a non-partisan manner. Last year we had Ed, Dave and Nick all line up next to each other with a wreath not taking any pot shots at each other.
Why would they need to take pot shots when they have the press to do it for them? As well as Foot's 'donkey jacket', who could forget the great unbowed Brown head scandal of 2009.
Corbyn will fall apart soon after winning because his lala land brand of politics never has and never will stand up to scrutiny, it's nothing to do with smearing. Equality and freedom are incompatible, the socialist desire for equality (however they wish to define it) can only be at the expense of freedom and we value that above all else.
It's odd that he's got to his age without that dawning on him, we all gravitate to where we're comfortable, I suspect that as a veggie teetotal he spends the majority of his time with likeminded people. There's clearly plenty like him within labour happy to have him as labour but the country at large won't accept it. Regardless of what you think of the new labour sycophants, they know it too.
"Equality and freedom are incompatible"
That sounds like rubbish to me. Care to explain?
It's a standard rhetorical trick of the ideologically committed or the defender of vested interest. If you bring in a policy to increase equality you are restricting the freedom of people to earn as much as they like. Therefore if you advocate progressive taxation you are an authoritarian.
All politicians,indeed all people, use these kinds of argument to get them through the day. Life is too short to argue every point from first principles.The politicians that are dangerous are the ones who actually believe them like Benn and Thatcher.
It's more than that. Absolute equality and absolute freedom are both impossible: the serious question is how much relative freedom and equality are compatible? Not that many people come here to consider, let alone discuss, serious questions.
Well put. To me it's at the heart of thinking, it's easy to appear caring and benevolent and to want to put the less well off first, to espouse equality. But it actually means nothing, in the election campaign millionaires like Brand were running around shouting about it, Toynbee does it every day, and look at the results for the party they support.
Above all else we value freedom, most people want equality of opportunity but that's different to equality. Corbyn can talk about raising taxes, shooting bankers etc etc and people will cheer, but it won't win him a general election.
What enemies of the UK has he stood shoulder to shoulder since the end of hostilities in Northern Ireland nearly two decades ago? (I dispute that he stood shoulder to shoulder with the IRA anyway, but accepting your definitions for now.)
Do you count the dictator Hugo Chavez?
Is Hugo Chavez our enemy? What has he ever done to us?
I'm of the opinion that all brutal dictators are our enemy and stand against what we stand for.
You're free to disagree. Since we don't live under someone like Corbyn's friend Chavez.
"He may well have finally put the brakes on the SNP juggernaut up here in Scotland, he is certainly drowning out the usually North Korean style SNP PR machine in the local news with some positive media attention of his own"
Fitalass wrong again. I know that is not news :-)
Assuming a Corbyn victory, his opposition to any meaningful further devolution will render a surge in Scotland pretty much dead on arrival.
Even if he were popular in Scotland, the political incompetence of both of the SLAB leadership contenders in condemning him before he became hot favourite will be used widely by the "SNP PR machine".
Further, as Corbyn has indicated that he would be kind enough to accept SNP support to put Labour in power, why would anyone bother to switch from SNP to Labour at GE 2020?
Only yesterday C4 news interviewed several young Scots who said they may switch from SNP to a Corbyn led Labour Party
Utterly meaningless drivel. The media can find anyone who says they might switch from anything to anything, before the election the media constantly had voters who were considering switching to a Miliband led Labour Party. How did that play out?
No they did not and Miliband always polled poorly, Corbyn polls well in Scotland
We have a series of treats to look forward to and which Corbynites such as Nick Palmer can enjoy as their unspun, straight-talking hero triumphs: The first Andrew Neil interview. The first PMQ The first Conference speech as leader The first Remembrance Sunday The first Budget response The 100 year anniversary of the Easter Rising And so on.
It should be invigorating stuff as The British public learns more about the man the Labour party believes should be the next Prime Minister.
Tbh I can't see what all the fuss was about with Foot's jacket. Indeed the Queen mother noted it was a sensible enough coat...
Corbyn OTOH is likely to be wearing a white poppy as he is a pacifist :P
The Foot story is a myth. It was a proper coat, not a donkey jacket.
I don't think that Corbyn will be as bad at these things as many people might think. He seems a remarkable calm person who will take these duties seriously.
The Foot story is an excellent example of how an image already held of someohe can be reinforced by a new half-truth. Corbyn doesn't need to do something lunatic left to be vilified by the Mail for it. He has enough history that anything he does that can be portayed in that light will bebelieved and, as with Foot, one or two images will become iconic.
It matters not that the coat was bought at Harrods. The outfit is shown in this story and if anyone thinks the attitude is respectful or remotely appropriate they deserve certifying. Quite apart from the ill fit and the open buttons and the ugly tie - the colour in real life is green. Foot dressed more appropriately in later years, but the damage was done. Corbyn's appearances at the cenotaph have already done their best to match Foots.
Corbyn will fall apart soon after winning because his lala land brand of politics never has and never will stand up to scrutiny, it's nothing to do with smearing. Equality and freedom are incompatible, the socialist desire for equality (however they wish to define it) can only be at the expense of freedom and we value that above all else.
It's odd that he's got to his age without that dawning on him, we all gravitate to where we're comfortable, I suspect that as a veggie teetotal he spends the majority of his time with likeminded people. There's clearly plenty like him within labour happy to have him as labour but the country at large won't accept it. Regardless of what you think of the new labour sycophants, they know it too.
"Equality and freedom are incompatible"
That sounds like rubbish to me. Care to explain?
Yep, the only way to achieve equality is by curtailing the freedom of individuals. You might want everybody to live in a 3 bedroom house, but to do that you have to stop people living in 4 bedroom houses.
If you cannot see the myriad flaws in your 'argument' then there's little hope for you.
Well I'm here for a while so I'm happy for you to enlighten me, I don't even mind if you continue to patronise me.
Sorry about the delay, had to do my bit for equality by feeding my son. During which he discovered how to open the toothpaste tube and spray the contents over the living room carpet ...
If you think that was patronising, you evidently haven't been following PB for long!
Why were you feeding him toothpaste? You sure you got this Dad thing down straight?
Corbyn will fall apart soon after winning because his lala land brand of politics never has and never will stand up to scrutiny, it's nothing to do with smearing. Equality and freedom are incompatible, the socialist desire for equality (however they wish to define it) can only be at the expense of freedom and we value that above all else.
It's odd that he's got to his age without that dawning on him, we all gravitate to where we're comfortable, I suspect that as a veggie teetotal he spends the majority of his time with likeminded people. There's clearly plenty like him within labour happy to have him as labour but the country at large won't accept it. Regardless of what you think of the new labour sycophants, they know it too.
"Equality and freedom are incompatible"
That sounds like rubbish to me. Care to explain?
It's a standard rhetorical trick of the ideologically committed or the defender of vested interest. If you bring in a policy to increase equality you are restricting the freedom of people to earn as much as they like. Therefore if you advocate progressive taxation you are an authoritarian.
All politicians,indeed all people, use these kinds of argument to get them through the day. Life is too short to argue every point from first principles.The politicians that are dangerous are the ones who actually believe them like Benn and Thatcher.
It's more than that. Absolute equality and absolute freedom are both impossible: the serious question is how much relative freedom and equality are compatible? Not that many people come here to consider, let alone discuss, serious questions.
Well put. To me it's at the heart of thinking, it's easy to appear caring and benevolent and to want to put the less well off first, to espouse equality. But it actually means nothing, in the election campaign millionaires like Brand were running around shouting about it, Toynbee does it every day, and look at the results for the party they support.
Above all else we value freedom, most people want equality of opportunity but that's different to equality. Corbyn can talk about raising taxes, shooting bankers etc etc and people will cheer, but it won't win him a general election.
Oh, I don't mind shooting bankers.
Surely that's a waste of bullets?
At least with a knife you get to recycle it.
No, you need to use a stake - make sure they don't rise again.
"I am standing to deliver a new kind of politics of a fairer, kinder Britain based on innovation, decent jobs and decent public services."
WTF does this actually mean? How is Corbyn going to deliver this kinder, fairer Britain? How is he going to produce "decent" jobs?
I'm beginning to believe that anybody who actually wants to be an MP should be banned from being one, and if you dream about being PM, you should be sectioned.
You must be a Corbyn supporter, as I can not imagine he thought he would even lead a team in an office.
Did your unreasonable union register as supporters ?
Corbyn will fall apart soon after winning because his lala land brand of politics never has and never will stand up to scrutiny, it's nothing to do with smearing. Equality and freedom are incompatible, the socialist desire for equality (however they wish to define it) can only be at the expense of freedom and we value that above all else.
It's odd that he's got to his age without that dawning on him, we all gravitate to where we're comfortable, I suspect that as a veggie teetotal he spends the majority of his time with likeminded people. There's clearly plenty like him within labour happy to have him as labour but the country at large won't accept it. Regardless of what you think of the new labour sycophants, they know it too.
"Equality and freedom are incompatible"
That sounds like rubbish to me. Care to explain?
It's a logical construct: if you desire absolute equality of outcome, then you can only do so by controlling outcomes and hence restricting the freedom to select other outcomes.
It's why Conservatives are so keen on equality of opportunity rather than outcome: the most talented should be able to succeed without any artificial boundaries (race, sex, etc) being put in their way; this is why access to education is so critical.
Of course, in theory, any action to narrow inequality (I'm thinking of redistributive tax policies, for instance) is a restriction of freedom, but most of us live in the real world rather than being Paulistas and accept that there is a trade off between unadulterated freedom and a stable and harmonious society
If Conservatives are in favour of equality of opportunity shouldn't they be in favour of high death duties? Also shouldn't they be opposed to private education? Come to that shouldn't they support free tertiary education? In fact, to ensure equality of opportunity would require quite extensive state intervention. That doesn't sound at all like the kinds of the policies advocate or implement.
Why are death duties pro-equality of opportunity. People have worked and made their career based on their opportunities for approximately four decades at least of work, plus however long in retirement. What you die with is not simply what you were born with.
How is private education anti-freedom or anti-equality. Anyone can choose to put their child into private education if they want.
SO - worth noting that the influx of new members may well have fundamentally changed the Labour party. Even if Corbyn's reign ends in failure, the new Labour electorate are, I would suspect, more left wing than the pre-election membership. That would suggest that even if Corbyn has a short and unhappy reign, the lessons may not be learned quickly.
Until 2020 the PLP will clearly be to the right of the party (or the £3 bit if it), but it will decide who contests the leadership - unless JC finds a way to change the rules. That will require a lot of careful preparation work and will take time, especially as the main levers of internal power (NEC etc) are not necessarily going to be fully Corbynite in outlook. Tom Watson, as deputy leader, will be very powerful internally too, so how he decides to play things will be crucial.
Though even if a new election were to be found the PLP will take into account a landslide Corbyn victory with the Labour selectorate. MPs are selfish as well as principled and will nominate not just the candidate they think is best but the candidate they think will win as it will further their own career to back the winner (cf Gordon Brown).
If the PLP think the selectorate will choose the most left-wing candidate again then there will be plenty of MPs willing to nominate the left wing MPs they think could win.
It depends who is in the selectorate. And electors can only choose who is put in front of them.
OT: I've made it onto a course for Mathematics and Computer Science (MSci) at Birmingham University. Despite obviously disliking the tuition fees I recognise their necessity and am grateful to the Tories for lifting the student number cap. If Labour get back into power in 2020 (in some crazy parallel universe) I'll be burdened with higher taxes and will still have the student debt burden. Worst of both worlds. Student debt made me into a conservative.
Jezza has promised to end tuition fees and wipeout existing student debt. You may want to reconsider your vote!
Too late to sign up to vote for Corbyn I'm afraid !
Standing to deliver
[SNIP]
My campaign is giving people a clear reason which is a choice between another five years or more of self-inflicted pain and austerity or investing our way to a prosperous and fairer society. A lot of people, both new and former Labour supporters seem to agree with us that this is the sensible way forward.
[SNIP]
Yours sincerely
Jeremy Corbyn
Has anyone told him that can't actually offer such a choice until the next election - ie. in five years time. And, currently, the Tories are pledged to have ended "austerity" by then...
"He may well have finally put the brakes on the SNP juggernaut up here in Scotland, he is certainly drowning out the usually North Korean style SNP PR machine in the local news with some positive media attention of his own"
Fitalass wrong again. I know that is not news :-)
Assuming a Corbyn victory, his opposition to any meaningful further devolution will render a surge in Scotland pretty much dead on arrival.
Even if he were popular in Scotland, the political incompetence of both of the SLAB leadership contenders in condemning him before he became hot favourite will be used widely by the "SNP PR machine".
Further, as Corbyn has indicated that he would be kind enough to accept SNP support to put Labour in power, why would anyone bother to switch from SNP to Labour at GE 2020?
Only yesterday C4 news interviewed several young Scots who said they may switch from SNP to a Corbyn led Labour Party
Utterly meaningless drivel. The media can find anyone who says they might switch from anything to anything, before the election the media constantly had voters who were considering switching to a Miliband led Labour Party. How did that play out?
No they did not and Miliband always polled poorly, Corbyn polls well in Scotland
Yes they did. Simply saying no is not meaningful, there is always meaningless vox pop "what do you think" and there were plenty of the media saying they were thinking of voting for Miliband's Labour (but didn't last time). Since the media typically pre-screen these people and they're not random and certainly not scientific.
Corbyn isn't LOTO yet. There haven't been any proper polls yet to compare to.
"I am standing to deliver a new kind of politics of a fairer, kinder Britain based on innovation, decent jobs and decent public services."
WTF does this actually mean? How is Corbyn going to deliver this kinder, fairer Britain? How is he going to produce "decent" jobs?
I'm beginning to believe that anybody who actually wants to be an MP should be banned from being one, and if you dream about being PM, you should be sectioned.
You must be a Corbyn supporter, as I can not imagine he thought he would even lead a team in an office.
Did your unreasonable union register as supporters ?
I do think the FBU likes the cut of Corbyn's jib, but fortunately, we as members have managed to stop the FBU from re-affiliating.......for now!
Corbyn will fall apart soon after winning because his lala land brand of politics never has and never will stand up to scrutiny, it's nothing to do with smearing. Equality and freedom are incompatible, the socialist desire for equality (however they wish to define it) can only be at the expense of freedom and we value that above all else.
It's odd that he's got to his age without that dawning on him, we all gravitate to where we're comfortable, I suspect that as a veggie teetotal he spends the majority of his time with likeminded people. There's clearly plenty like him within labour happy to have him as labour but the country at large won't accept it. Regardless of what you think of the new labour sycophants, they know it too.
"Equality and freedom are incompatible"
That sounds like rubbish to me. Care to explain?
It's a logical construct: if you desire absolute equality of outcome, then you can only do so by controlling outcomes and hence restricting the freedom to select other outcomes.
It's why Conservatives are so keen on equality of opportunity rather than outcome: the most talented should be able to succeed without any artificial boundaries (race, sex, etc) being put in their way; this is why access to education is so critical.
Of course, in theory, any action to narrow inequality (I'm thinking of redistributive tax policies, for instance) is a restriction of freedom, but most of us live in the real world rather than being Paulistas and accept that there is a trade off between unadulterated freedom and a stable and harmonious society
If Conservatives are in favour of equality of opportunity shouldn't they be in favour of high death duties? Also shouldn't they be opposed to private education? Come to that shouldn't they support free tertiary education? In fact, to ensure equality of opportunity would require quite extensive state intervention. That doesn't sound at all like the kinds of the policies advocate or implement.
All parties believe in equality of opportunity, not of outcome (though Corbyn may change that). The debate is always about how to do it.
I'd agree with all that - if you're going to make the most of the opportunity thrust at you, follow that strategy and implement it as quickly as you can.
Re names to watch - Corbyn's office newbie Cat Smith
Catherine Jane Smith[3] (born 16 June 1985) is a British Labour Party politician. She has been the Member of Parliament (MP) for Lancaster and Fleetwood since winning the seat at the general election in May 2015.[4]
Born in Barrow-in-Furness, Smith moved to Lancaster in 2003 where she studied at Cartmel College, Lancaster University,[5] graduating with a BA in Sociology and Gender Studies. Prior to entering Parliament she worked for Jeremy Corbyn MP [6] and as a policy officer for the British Association of Social Workers.[7] She previously contested the Wyre and Preston North constituency in the 2010 general election.[7]
Smith has contributed to publications and news blogs associated with the Labour Party, including LabourList and Tribune.[8][9] She identifies herself as a Christian, socialist, feminist, republican and trade unionist.[10] She is one of twenty-seven LGBTI MPs elected in the 2015 general election,[11] identifying as bisexual; she is engaged to a man called Ben.[12]
Therefore there might be some huge value long shots for next Labour leader - probably among the 48 who voted against the welfare bill, as their apostasy isn't total and can be excused by the Corbynites. A Corbyn win would also remove all the most senior Labour figures from the Shadow Cabinet equation, meaning that favoured sons or daughters could be promoted quickly, gaining experience and public recognition in a shorter period than is traditional. My own outsider tip would be Clive Lewis - former TV presenter, solidly left and black so able to tap into the inevitable desire to break down barriers (esp. on the left). Only arrived in 2015, but these are strange times
Good try Miss Plato but come off it, even I know that the character you just listed is beyond parody. How do you make them up? :-)
"He may well have finally put the brakes on the SNP juggernaut up here in Scotland, he is certainly drowning out the usually North Korean style SNP PR machine in the local news with some positive media attention of his own"
Fitalass wrong again. I know that is not news :-)
Assuming a Corbyn victory, his opposition to any meaningful further devolution will render a surge in Scotland pretty much dead on arrival.
Even if he were popular in Scotland, the political incompetence of both of the SLAB leadership contenders in condemning him before he became hot favourite will be used widely by the "SNP PR machine".
Further, as Corbyn has indicated that he would be kind enough to accept SNP support to put Labour in power, why would anyone bother to switch from SNP to Labour at GE 2020?
Only yesterday C4 news interviewed several young Scots who said they may switch from SNP to a Corbyn led Labour Party
Before Corbyn could take the fight to the SNP he first has to deal with SLAB - which lives in a perpetual state of civil war. Worth remembering that John McT who seems to have appointed himself as Witchfinder General on matters ABC is still SLAB's Chief off Staff - I think John McT and Blair McD would go as far as barricading themselves into SLAB's office in Glasgow to keep Corbyn out !!
If Corbyn becomes leader with membership backing they are irrelevant, in Glasgow yesterday a big turnout for his rally
The election that matters won't be happening for nearly five more years. There's plenty of time for Corbyn's bubble to be popped in the five years coming. Plus the unions can't stuff the ballots with new voters in a general election.
Also at the next GE are the population really going to elect someone who is 71 (and therefore has at least a reasonable chance of dying in office) over someone probably in their mid or late 40s ? Can't see it to be honest.
If nothing else, a Corbyn win should forever stop people thinking things 'can't happen'... Matched at 890 on Betfair and thousands over 100
"Removing all privatisation from the NHS to make it completely publicly run"
What does that even mean?
Will the NHS be making mattresses, or surgical gloves now?
Although of course the largest part of the budget goes to the most shady companies of the lot - the big pharmaceutical companies! Will he nationalise GlaxoSmithKline?
Pharma companies get around 8% of the NHS budget.
And pricing is pretty rational: although the PRRS does allow more flexibility for the RX originators, the GX market is almost as cutthroat as the Netherlands.
There is, of course, a dark underbelly, but the CMA is gradually stamping on them.
SO - worth noting that the influx of new members may well have fundamentally changed the Labour party. Even if Corbyn's reign ends in failure, the new Labour electorate are, I would suspect, more left wing than the pre-election membership. That would suggest that even if Corbyn has a short and unhappy reign, the lessons may not be learned quickly.
Until 2020 the PLP will clearly be to the right of the party (or the £3 bit if it), but it will decide who contests the leadership - unless JC finds a way to change the rules. That will require a lot of careful preparation work and will take time, especially as the main levers of internal power (NEC etc) are not necessarily going to be fully Corbynite in outlook. Tom Watson, as deputy leader, will be very powerful internally too, so how he decides to play things will be crucial.
Though even if a new election were to be found the PLP will take into account a landslide Corbyn victory with the Labour selectorate. MPs are selfish as well as principled and will nominate not just the candidate they think is best but the candidate they think will win as it will further their own career to back the winner (cf Gordon Brown).
If the PLP think the selectorate will choose the most left-wing candidate again then there will be plenty of MPs willing to nominate the left wing MPs they think could win.
It depends who is in the selectorate. And electors can only choose who is put in front of them.
If the £3 members and new members become full members under a Corbyn-led party they'll be full members no matter what. Unless the rules are changed the affiliated unions are allowed to vote no matter what. So the selectorate is only going left from here.
Plus it's a Catch 22 situation with the nomination of MPs. The electors can only choose who is put in front of them, but the MPs will want to back the winner of the selectorate. There is a hard core like Diane Abbott who will always nominate a lefty, they only need a few extra votes from either new left wing MPs or those who think the selectorate will go left and want to back the winner.
The idea there'd be no left wing candidate next time isn't plausible.
He'll be 70 by the time of the next election and 75 by the end of his first term, if he reached that far. Are people choosing him as a stopgap, hoping the party will be pushed leftward and a new leader will actually lead the 'radicalised' party into the 2020 election?
Corbyn will fall apart soon after winning because his lala land brand of politics never has and never will stand up to scrutiny, it's nothing to do with smearing. Equality and freedom are incompatible, the socialist desire for equality (however they wish to define it) can only be at the expense of freedom and we value that above all else.
It's odd that he's got to his age without that dawning on him, we all gravitate to where we're comfortable, I suspect that as a veggie teetotal he spends the majority of his time with likeminded people. There's clearly plenty like him within labour happy to have him as labour but the country at large won't accept it. Regardless of what you think of the new labour sycophants, they know it too.
"Equality and freedom are incompatible"
That sounds like rubbish to me. Care to explain?
It's a standard rhetorical trick of the ideologically committed or the defender of vested interest. If you bring in a policy to increase equality you are restricting the freedom of people to earn as much as they like. Therefore if you advocate progressive taxation you are an authoritarian.
All politicians,indeed all people, use these kinds of argument to get them through the day. Life is too short to argue every point from first principles.The politicians that are dangerous are the ones who actually believe them like Benn and Thatcher.
It's more than that. Absolute equality and absolute freedom are both impossible: the serious question is how much relative freedom and equality are compatible? Not that many people come here to consider, let alone discuss, serious questions.
Well put. To me it's at the heart of thinking, it's easy to appear caring and benevolent and to want to put the less well off first, to espouse equality. But it actually means nothing, in the election campaign millionaires like Brand were running around shouting about it, Toynbee does it every day, and look at the results for the party they support.
Above all else we value freedom, most people want equality of opportunity but that's different to equality. Corbyn can talk about raising taxes, shooting bankers etc etc and people will cheer, but it won't win him a general election.
Oh, I don't mind shooting bankers.
Waste of bullets?
At least with a knife you get to recycle it.
Keep it in private though if the blade is more than 7.62cm long and not folding; some politician has granted you the right to be eligible for a 4 year sentence behind bars for having it in your pocket.
"I am standing to deliver a new kind of politics of a fairer, kinder Britain based on innovation, decent jobs and decent public services."
WTF does this actually mean? How is Corbyn going to deliver this kinder, fairer Britain? How is he going to produce "decent" jobs?
I'm beginning to believe that anybody who actually wants to be an MP should be banned from being one, and if you dream about being PM, you should be sectioned.
You must be a Corbyn supporter, as I can not imagine he thought he would even lead a team in an office.
Did your unreasonable union register as supporters ?
I do think the FBU likes the cut of Corbyn's jib, but fortunately, we as members have managed to stop the FBU from re-affiliating.......for now!
I think when Corbyn is crowned as leader of the Labour Party and her majesties official leader of the opposition, the FBU will re-join. Even Unison backed him, and they are moderate in comparison to the FBU.
I'd agree with all that - if you're going to make the most of the opportunity thrust at you, follow that strategy and implement it as quickly as you can.
Re names to watch - Corbyn's office newbie Cat Smith
Catherine Jane Smith[3] (born 16 June 1985) is a British Labour Party politician. She has been the Member of Parliament (MP) for Lancaster and Fleetwood since winning the seat at the general election in May 2015.[4]
Born in Barrow-in-Furness, Smith moved to Lancaster in 2003 where she studied at Cartmel College, Lancaster University,[5] graduating with a BA in Sociology and Gender Studies. Prior to entering Parliament she worked for Jeremy Corbyn MP [6] and as a policy officer for the British Association of Social Workers.[7] She previously contested the Wyre and Preston North constituency in the 2010 general election.[7]
Smith has contributed to publications and news blogs associated with the Labour Party, including LabourList and Tribune.[8][9] She identifies herself as a Christian, socialist, feminist, republican and trade unionist.[10] She is one of twenty-seven LGBTI MPs elected in the 2015 general election,[11] identifying as bisexual; she is engaged to a man called Ben.[12]
Therefore there might be some huge value long shots for next Labour leader - probably among the 48 who voted against the welfare bill, as their apostasy isn't total and can be excused by the Corbynites. A Corbyn win would also remove all the most senior Labour figures from the Shadow Cabinet equation, meaning that favoured sons or daughters could be promoted quickly, gaining experience and public recognition in a shorter period than is traditional. My own outsider tip would be Clive Lewis - former TV presenter, solidly left and black so able to tap into the inevitable desire to break down barriers (esp. on the left). Only arrived in 2015, but these are strange times
Good try Miss Plato but come off it, even I know that the character you just listed is beyond parody. How do you make them up? :-)
"He may well have finally put the brakes on the SNP juggernaut up here in Scotland, he is certainly drowning out the usually North Korean style SNP PR machine in the local news with some positive media attention of his own"
Fitalass wrong again. I know that is not news :-)
Assuming a Corbyn victory, his opposition to any meaningful further devolution will render a surge in Scotland pretty much dead on arrival.
Even if he were popular in Scotland, the political incompetence of both of the SLAB leadership contenders in condemning him before he became hot favourite will be used widely by the "SNP PR machine".
Further, as Corbyn has indicated that he would be kind enough to accept SNP support to put Labour in power, why would anyone bother to switch from SNP to Labour at GE 2020?
Only yesterday C4 news interviewed several young Scots who said they may switch from SNP to a Corbyn led Labour Party
Utterly meaningless drivel. The media can find anyone who says they might switch from anything to anything, before the election the media constantly had voters who were considering switching to a Miliband led Labour Party. How did that play out?
No they did not and Miliband always polled poorly, Corbyn polls well in Scotland
Yes they did. Simply saying no is not meaningful, there is always meaningless vox pop "what do you think" and there were plenty of the media saying they were thinking of voting for Miliband's Labour (but didn't last time). Since the media typically pre-screen these people and they're not random and certainly not scientific.
Corbyn isn't LOTO yet. There haven't been any proper polls yet to compare to.
Scientific polls all have Corbyn polling better in Scotland than anywhere else in the UK apart from London Miliband polled dreadfully in Scotland behind even Cameron
"I am standing to deliver a new kind of politics of a fairer, kinder Britain based on innovation, decent jobs and decent public services."
WTF does this actually mean? How is Corbyn going to deliver this kinder, fairer Britain? How is he going to produce "decent" jobs?
I'm beginning to believe that anybody who actually wants to be an MP should be banned from being one, and if you dream about being PM, you should be sectioned.
You must be a Corbyn supporter, as I can not imagine he thought he would even lead a team in an office.
Did your unreasonable union register as supporters ?
I do think the FBU likes the cut of Corbyn's jib, but fortunately, we as members have managed to stop the FBU from re-affiliating.......for now!
I think when Corbyn is crowned as leader of the Labour Party and her majesties official leader of the opposition, the FBU will re-join. Even Unison backed him, and they are moderate in comparison to the FBU.
We're not that millitant, and pretty toothless, to be honest.
Scientific polls all have Corbyn polling better in Scotland than anywhere else in the UK apart from London Miliband polled dreadfully in Scotland behind even Cameron
Unless you have a Tardis there aren't any scientific polls showing how Leader of the Opposition Corbyn is performing since he isn't Leader of the Opposition yet.
Remembrance Day and the Poppy Appeal are non-partisan and non-political.
Yes, it's marvellous how our politicians completely distance themselves from these ceremonies and rituals.
The politicians play their roles in a non-partisan manner. Last year we had Ed, Dave and Nick all line up next to each other with a wreath not taking any pot shots at each other.
Why would they need to take pot shots when they have the press to do it for them? As well as Foot's 'donkey jacket', who could forget the great unbowed Brown head scandal of 2009.
I'm afraid I have forgotten that one - could someone enlighten me?
We have a series of treats to look forward to and which Corbynites such as Nick Palmer can enjoy as their unspun, straight-talking hero triumphs: The first Andrew Neil interview. The first PMQ The first Conference speech as leader The first Remembrance Sunday The first Budget response The 100 year anniversary of the Easter Rising And so on.
It should be invigorating stuff as The British public learns more about the man the Labour party believes should be the next Prime Minister.
I can see him doing ok on about half of those.
Daily Mail headline on the day after Remembrance Sunday:
Big photo of Corbyn looking solemn. Screaming headline "HYPOCRITE!". A few choice quotes from Corbyn's past down the side of the page.
What enemies of the UK has he stood shoulder to shoulder since the end of hostilities in Northern Ireland nearly two decades ago? (I dispute that he stood shoulder to shoulder with the IRA anyway, but accepting your definitions for now.)
Do you count the dictator Hugo Chavez?
Erm. No, given he was not an enemy of the UK, in fact at one point was in talks to provide cheap fuel for London transport, and was only a brutal dictator if you ignore the fact he was popularly elected a number of times and presided over a sum total of zero violent repression. PS you are a lunatic.
Unlike the Tories who were/are friends of many actual brutal dictators.
We have a series of treats to look forward to and which Corbynites such as Nick Palmer can enjoy as their unspun, straight-talking hero triumphs: The first Andrew Neil interview. The first PMQ The first Conference speech as leader The first Remembrance Sunday The first Budget response The 100 year anniversary of the Easter Rising And so on.
It should be invigorating stuff as The British public learns more about the man the Labour party believes should be the next Prime Minister.
I can see him doing ok on about half of those.
Daily Mail headline on the day after Remembrance Sunday:
Big photo of Corbyn looking solemn. Screaming headline "HYPOCRITE!". A few choice quotes from Corbyn's past down the side of the page.
What enemies of the UK has he stood shoulder to shoulder since the end of hostilities in Northern Ireland nearly two decades ago? (I dispute that he stood shoulder to shoulder with the IRA anyway, but accepting your definitions for now.)
Do you count the dictator Hugo Chavez?
Erm. No, given he was not an enemy of the UK, in fact at one point was in talks to provide cheap fuel for London transport, and was only a brutal dictator if you ignore the fact he was popularly elected a number of times and presided over a sum total of zero violent repression. PS you are a lunatic.
He was popularly elected, but surely not 'zero' violent repression, there had been incidents hasn't there? I didn't like the man, but I never considered him a dictator though, personally.
What enemies of the UK has he stood shoulder to shoulder since the end of hostilities in Northern Ireland nearly two decades ago? (I dispute that he stood shoulder to shoulder with the IRA anyway, but accepting your definitions for now.)
Do you count the dictator Hugo Chavez?
Erm. No, given he was not an enemy of the UK, in fact at one point was in talks to provide cheap fuel for London transport, and was only a brutal dictator if you ignore the fact he was popularly elected a number of times and presided over a sum total of zero violent repression. PS you are a lunatic.
Unlike the Tories who were/are friends of many actual brutal dictators.
OT: I've made it onto a course for Mathematics and Computer Science (MSci) at Birmingham University. Despite obviously disliking the tuition fees I recognise their necessity and am grateful to the Tories for lifting the student number cap. If Labour get back into power in 2020 (in some crazy parallel universe) I'll be burdened with higher taxes and will still have the student debt burden. Worst of both worlds. Student debt made me into a conservative.
Jezza has promised to end tuition fees and wipeout existing student debt. You may want to reconsider your vote!
Too late to sign up to vote for Corbyn I'm afraid !
Standing to deliver
[SNIP]
My campaign is giving people a clear reason which is a choice between another five years or more of self-inflicted pain and austerity or investing our way to a prosperous and fairer society. A lot of people, both new and former Labour supporters seem to agree with us that this is the sensible way forward.
[SNIP]
Yours sincerely
Jeremy Corbyn
Has anyone told him that can't actually offer such a choice until the next election - ie. in five years time. And, currently, the Tories are pledged to have ended "austerity" by then...
'anti-austerity' is a lie a sham. A code for spend spend spend. It would be interesting to know who invented the 'austerity' phrase. In any event its been misused ever since.
SO - worth noting that the influx of new members may well have fundamentally changed the Labour party. Even if Corbyn's reign ends in failure, the new Labour electorate are, I would suspect, more left wing than the pre-election membership. That would suggest that even if Corbyn has a short and unhappy reign, the lessons may not be learned quickly.
Until 2020 the PLP will clearly be to the right of the party (or the £3 bit if it), but it will decide who contests the leadership - unless JC finds a way to change the rules. That will require a lot of careful preparation work and will take time, especially as the main levers of internal power (NEC etc) are not necessarily going to be fully Corbynite in outlook. Tom Watson, as deputy leader, will be very powerful internally too, so how he decides to play things will be crucial.
Though even if a new election were to be found the PLP will take into account a landslide Corbyn victory with the Labour selectorate. MPs are selfish as well as principled and will nominate not just the candidate they think is best but the candidate they think will win as it will further their own career to back the winner (cf Gordon Brown).
If the PLP think the selectorate will choose the most left-wing candidate again then there will be plenty of MPs willing to nominate the left wing MPs they think could win.
It depends who is in the selectorate. And electors can only choose who is put in front of them.
If the £3 members and new members become full members under a Corbyn-led party they'll be full members no matter what. Unless the rules are changed the affiliated unions are allowed to vote no matter what. So the selectorate is only going left from here.
Plus it's a Catch 22 situation with the nomination of MPs. The electors can only choose who is put in front of them, but the MPs will want to back the winner of the selectorate. There is a hard core like Diane Abbott who will always nominate a lefty, they only need a few extra votes from either new left wing MPs or those who think the selectorate will go left and want to back the winner.
The idea there'd be no left wing candidate next time isn't plausible.
There are 50,000 less union voters this time than last and thanks to Tory legislation the unions will have far less leverage. This means Labour will need to find donations from elsewhere - something that may well begin to concentrate a few full members' minds, many of which are currently rather befuddled (to say the least). The likelihood is that Corbyn will be succeeded by another left-winger, but it is not inevitable for as long as the current method of selection is in place.
What enemies of the UK has he stood shoulder to shoulder since the end of hostilities in Northern Ireland nearly two decades ago? (I dispute that he stood shoulder to shoulder with the IRA anyway, but accepting your definitions for now.)
Do you count the dictator Hugo Chavez?
Erm. No, given he was not an enemy of the UK, in fact at one point was in talks to provide cheap fuel for London transport, and was only a brutal dictator if you ignore the fact he was popularly elected a number of times and presided over a sum total of zero violent repression. PS you are a lunatic.
Unlike the Tories who were/are friends of many actual brutal dictators.
Only lunatics think Chavez was a dictator? Interesting theory.
'What I find genuinely sickening is the seeming willingness of the likes of Nick Palmer to brush off Corbyn's close associations with people who have openly and repeatedly called for the murder of British soldiers, the killing of all Jews and the enslavement of women.'
Just shows you the real Mr Palmer, this is the same person that preaches 'Positive Politics',no principles just jump on any band wagon and follow the crowd.
What enemies of the UK has he stood shoulder to shoulder since the end of hostilities in Northern Ireland nearly two decades ago? (I dispute that he stood shoulder to shoulder with the IRA anyway, but accepting your definitions for now.)
Do you count the dictator Hugo Chavez?
Erm. No, given he was not an enemy of the UK, in fact at one point was in talks to provide cheap fuel for London transport, and was only a brutal dictator if you ignore the fact he was popularly elected a number of times and presided over a sum total of zero violent repression. PS you are a lunatic.
Unlike the Tories who were/are friends of many actual brutal dictators.
Only lunatics think Chavez was a dictator? Interesting theory.
Unless your definition of dictator is 'democratically elected leaders I don't like', which admittedly is quite a standard right-wing position, yes you'd have to taking ignorance of reality to insane levels of delusion.
Can you give me some good examples of Chavez's renowned bloodthirsty brutality too please? As opposed to the right wing there that actually did kill en masses when they briefly overthrew him, sharing your obvious distaste for democracy when it doesn't produce the correct result.
We all have our likes and dislikes, but there are a couple of distinctions which are colouring them.
1. Political insiders vs outsiders
Many of the doubts about Corbyn (including those of members who are still unsure) are essentially insider issues - how will he form a good Shadow Cabinet, how will he deal with party management, what will he do about whipping, etc. - as well as the knowledge born of experience that people outside the mainstream generally do badly. But the important thing about his popularity is the same as it was in the SNP surge - it's a rejection of mainstream politics as unproductive and corrupted by endless maneuvering and spin. Those of us who accepted exactly that maneuvering as a necessity of British politics need to acknowledge that most people are fed up with it.
2. Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.
Most of us accept that many people who the West has been in conflict with have some genuine grievances - you don't have to be anti-Israel to acknowledge that it's tough to be a Palestinian. Some of them have adopted extreme positions and embraced violence as a result. What do we do about it?
In *practice* what Governments do about it is try to defeat them militarily (cf. Malaysia, Iraq, Libya) or by sanctions and if that fails then try to cut a deal with them (cf. Vietnam, IRA, Iran) and be nice to them after the event (as with Sinn Fein). Corbyn's approach is to express sympathy for the reasons why they're hostile and try to get a dialogue with them. The first part of that - sharing a platform, calling them friends and all that - comes close to looking like supporting them. It isn't.
My reservations about Corbyn still exist even though I'll vote for him. I like his politeness and issue focus and think the stuff about his leading a purge of moderates is bollocks, but he's not flexible, and a degree of flexibility may be necessary in a leader. If Kendall, say, puts forward support for free schools, he'll give her a civil hearing and discuss it for two hours if she wants, but he won't split the difference and agree, say, to retaining existing ones. That's the other side of being a rather academic non-insider - you don't do deals, you need to be persuaded.
People are in the mood for a different approach and I think Tories are gloating too soon - not all the issues they are chortling over will work with the general public. If he wins (not quite a done deal yet IMO) it'll be an interesting change, and really hard to predict how it turns out.
What enemies of the UK has he stood shoulder to shoulder since the end of hostilities in Northern Ireland nearly two decades ago? (I dispute that he stood shoulder to shoulder with the IRA anyway, but accepting your definitions for now.)
Do you count the dictator Hugo Chavez?
Erm. No, given he was not an enemy of the UK, in fact at one point was in talks to provide cheap fuel for London transport, and was only a brutal dictator if you ignore the fact he was popularly elected a number of times and presided over a sum total of zero violent repression. PS you are a lunatic.
Unlike the Tories who were/are friends of many actual brutal dictators.
Only lunatics think Chavez was a dictator? Interesting theory.
Unless your definition of dictator is 'democratically elected leaders I don't like', which admittedly is quite a standard right-wing position, yes you'd have to taking ignorance of reality to insane levels of delusion.
I would point out that many on the left dispute this right wing government was democratically elected because they don't like them (I do exclude those few who have consistently complained about the disproportionate possibilities of FPTP, but most of those complaining would never have objected so strongly, if at all, had a left wing government come to power), it is not a right or left wing position to mislabel ideological opponents.
"I am standing to deliver a new kind of politics of a fairer, kinder Britain based on innovation, decent jobs and decent public services."
WTF does this actually mean? How is Corbyn going to deliver this kinder, fairer Britain? How is he going to produce "decent" jobs?
I'm beginning to believe that anybody who actually wants to be an MP should be banned from being one, and if you dream about being PM, you should be sectioned.
You must be a Corbyn supporter, as I can not imagine he thought he would even lead a team in an office.
Did your unreasonable union register as supporters ?
I do think the FBU likes the cut of Corbyn's jib, but fortunately, we as members have managed to stop the FBU from re-affiliating.......for now!
I think when Corbyn is crowned as leader of the Labour Party and her majesties official leader of the opposition, the FBU will re-join. Even Unison backed him, and they are moderate in comparison to the FBU.
We're not that millitant, and pretty toothless, to be honest.
All Unions are pretty toothless or soon will be . However the downside to that is real wages keep falling for the majority.
Ken Livingstone was vilified by the MSM as SO is doing now. Blair tried everything possible to stop him having the chance to become London Mayor.
I at the time thought Ken Livingstone would not be a good choice. However he did some good things for London between 2000 to2008. I was wrong and I could be about Corbyn . These are difficult times to predict.
Although towards the end his true character reasserted itself
Didn't he tell a British-born, but Jewish photographer for the Evening Standard to "F**k off back to Israel!" or something?
Comments
Remembrance Day and the Poppy Appeal are non-partisan and non-political. You may think its acceptable to try and hijack the Poppy Appeal to score political points, I suspect most of the country will disagree with you and Corbyn.
That strikes me as quite sensible and fair. What Labour did was insane.
Standing to deliver
Dear
In the last few weeks many people have signed up as Labour supporters and members.
If you are a brand new joiner to our party, I want to welcome you. If you have been a member in the past and have come back, welcome home.
I believe Westminster politics forgot something - it's that if you stop giving people a reason to vote, loyalty evaporates along with votes.
That’s why my campaign has stood for straight-talking, honest politics. You can read more about what I’m standing to deliver here.
My campaign is giving people a clear reason which is a choice between another five years or more of self-inflicted pain and austerity or investing our way to a prosperous and fairer society. A lot of people, both new and former Labour supporters seem to agree with us that this is the sensible way forward.
I am standing to deliver a new kind of politics of a fairer, kinder Britain based on innovation, decent jobs and decent public services.
If you want to be involved in my campaign for Labour leadership, please join our movement here.
Sign up to hear more from us in the future
Yours sincerely
Jeremy Corbyn
If Labour entryists want to join the Tory Party prior to the next election and pay full membership duties before the next election in case we lose and there's a vote afterwards then good luck to them.
He may well provoke some serious discussion on the role of the military in the modern world, "the savage wars of peace".
Most people would want to eliminate the causes of war. If only! Doesn't mean you cannot be grateful to those who died to give you your current freedoms.
You would not even have the choice to wear a white poppy if the Nazis were in charge (think: North Korea). I think wearing a red poppy does not make you someone who likes or wants war, quite the reverse as it reminds you of the true cost of war.
I'm a very wet card carrying Tory these days, having defected from Tony.
Labour had a 35 MP minimum to give them protection, which they then refused to use.
Welcome to Dhimmie-magic-money-tree-lundt. Try not to be ill when visiting Leicester....
The anti privatisation rhetoric of leftie loonies like Corbyn and his mob is just plain old fashioned state control nationalisation bigotry. It also more than hints that spending would run totally out of control under Corbyn.
BTW - if Labour MPs are so upset over the voting system that looks like electing Corbyn, then why the hell did they nominate him in the first place when they did not have to? Even the sanest Labour MP is in the end a thick dummy.
I do not wear a white poppy, but I acknowledge that those who do often have very strong reasons to do so.
TBH, I think bringing an alternative proxy [white poppy] into any Armed Services memorial is frankly virtue signally of the most selfish kind.
If you want to make your case, fine - but not there.
WTF does this actually mean?
How is Corbyn going to deliver this kinder, fairer Britain? How is he going to produce "decent" jobs?
I'm beginning to believe that anybody who actually wants to be an MP should be banned from being one, and if you dream about being PM, you should be sectioned.
However even you did not predict the rise of the SNP after the referendum.
You did not predict the rise of Corbyn.
All the political commentators have been way behind the curve.
If we had PR and not FPTP the Labour Party and the Conservatives would go their separate ways.
However as a died in the wool tory this will never be your position.
Even if it was better for the democratic process and the country.
Partisans either Labour or Tory will eventually have to succombe to the end of the rotten boroughs where it is a waste of time voting.
*except 43 times previously from you.
I have been looking into this fabled 1987 minutes silence story which I believe follows precisely the half-truth right wing propaganda nonsense that David Herdson was talking about (which incidentally I think play out a lot less effectively in an era where oligarchs don't have quite such a stranglehold on information, though they still work to an extent, hence the continual torrent of bilge that still comes out of the right wing establishment propaganda machine).
It's actually hard to find any actual primary sources for this alleged event, as a Google search just turns up endless copied links from a handful of the usual propaganda suspects.
But it appears from fragments of available evidence that the event in question was protesting against the shoot to kill policy in general, which was also responsible for the deaths of civilians, as opposed to a celebration of the 'murderers of British troops'. Takes on quite a different tenor in that light.
But I'll save that pet peeve for later in the year.
Politics aside, I have always been unhappy when my taxes have gone up but never felt any joy at all when they went down. If I am remotely typical, it is little wonder that politicians are never popular. There'll never be a way to please everybody and there are plenty of ways to please nobody.
I'm forcing Southam Observer to step up and be PM.
[That said, Mr. Observer would be a better PM than Corbyn, by miles beyond counting].
If the PLP think the selectorate will choose the most left-wing candidate again then there will be plenty of MPs willing to nominate the left wing MPs they think could win.
It's why Conservatives are so keen on equality of opportunity rather than outcome: the most talented should be able to succeed without any artificial boundaries (race, sex, etc) being put in their way; this is why access to education is so critical.
Of course, in theory, any action to narrow inequality (I'm thinking of redistributive tax policies, for instance) is a restriction of freedom, but most of us live in the real world rather than being Paulistas and accept that there is a trade off between unadulterated freedom and a stable and harmonious society
"Re names to watch - Corbyn's office newbie Cat Smith."
Someone who likes to tick all the boxes. An LBGT feminist with a degree in gender studies, but a Christian and marrying a man. If only she were black and disabled, she'd have a full house.
But is she any good?
And what's your betting position...
At least with a knife you get to recycle it.
You're free to disagree. Since we don't live under someone like Corbyn's friend Chavez.
But I'd also vote for Ms Danczuk, being a shallow male at heart.
Foot dressed more appropriately in later years, but the damage was done.
Corbyn's appearances at the cenotaph have already done their best to match Foots.
No, you need to use a stake - make sure they don't rise again.
Did your unreasonable union register as supporters ?
How is private education anti-freedom or anti-equality. Anyone can choose to put their child into private education if they want.
Tertiary education is free at the point of use.
Corbyn isn't LOTO yet. There haven't been any proper polls yet to compare to.
Good try Miss Plato but come off it, even I know that the character you just listed is beyond parody. How do you make them up? :-)
http://www.thenational.scot/news/matheson-poised-to-be-deputy-leader.6424
@JournoStephen: .@Alex_RowleyMSP is the new deputy leader of Scottish Labour, beating Gordon Matheson 55% to 45%.
Ooops
And pricing is pretty rational: although the PRRS does allow more flexibility for the RX originators, the GX market is almost as cutthroat as the Netherlands.
There is, of course, a dark underbelly, but the CMA is gradually stamping on them.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/06/pfizer-flynn-pharma-competition-laws-breach-competition-markets-authority
Plus it's a Catch 22 situation with the nomination of MPs. The electors can only choose who is put in front of them, but the MPs will want to back the winner of the selectorate. There is a hard core like Diane Abbott who will always nominate a lefty, they only need a few extra votes from either new left wing MPs or those who think the selectorate will go left and want to back the winner.
The idea there'd be no left wing candidate next time isn't plausible.
Are people choosing him as a stopgap, hoping the party will be pushed leftward and a new leader will actually lead the 'radicalised' party into the 2020 election?
Even Unison backed him, and they are moderate in comparison to the FBU.
She's leading the field right now. Good try Miss Plato but come off it, even I know that the character you just listed is beyond parody. How do you make them up? :-)
Big photo of Corbyn looking solemn. Screaming headline "HYPOCRITE!". A few choice quotes from Corbyn's past down the side of the page.
What are the odds?
Unlike the Tories who were/are friends of many actual brutal dictators.
'What I find genuinely sickening is the seeming willingness of the likes of Nick Palmer to brush off Corbyn's close associations with people who have openly and repeatedly called for the murder of British soldiers, the killing of all Jews and the enslavement of women.'
Just shows you the real Mr Palmer, this is the same person that preaches 'Positive Politics',no principles just jump on any band wagon and follow the crowd.
Can you give me some good examples of Chavez's renowned bloodthirsty brutality too please? As opposed to the right wing there that actually did kill en masses when they briefly overthrew him, sharing your obvious distaste for democracy when it doesn't produce the correct result.
You are a loon.
1. Political insiders vs outsiders
Many of the doubts about Corbyn (including those of members who are still unsure) are essentially insider issues - how will he form a good Shadow Cabinet, how will he deal with party management, what will he do about whipping, etc. - as well as the knowledge born of experience that people outside the mainstream generally do badly. But the important thing about his popularity is the same as it was in the SNP surge - it's a rejection of mainstream politics as unproductive and corrupted by endless maneuvering and spin. Those of us who accepted exactly that maneuvering as a necessity of British politics need to acknowledge that most people are fed up with it.
2. Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.
Most of us accept that many people who the West has been in conflict with have some genuine grievances - you don't have to be anti-Israel to acknowledge that it's tough to be a Palestinian. Some of them have adopted extreme positions and embraced violence as a result. What do we do about it?
In *practice* what Governments do about it is try to defeat them militarily (cf. Malaysia, Iraq, Libya) or by sanctions and if that fails then try to cut a deal with them (cf. Vietnam, IRA, Iran) and be nice to them after the event (as with Sinn Fein). Corbyn's approach is to express sympathy for the reasons why they're hostile and try to get a dialogue with them. The first part of that - sharing a platform, calling them friends and all that - comes close to looking like supporting them. It isn't.
My reservations about Corbyn still exist even though I'll vote for him. I like his politeness and issue focus and think the stuff about his leading a purge of moderates is bollocks, but he's not flexible, and a degree of flexibility may be necessary in a leader. If Kendall, say, puts forward support for free schools, he'll give her a civil hearing and discuss it for two hours if she wants, but he won't split the difference and agree, say, to retaining existing ones. That's the other side of being a rather academic non-insider - you don't do deals, you need to be persuaded.
People are in the mood for a different approach and I think Tories are gloating too soon - not all the issues they are chortling over will work with the general public. If he wins (not quite a done deal yet IMO) it'll be an interesting change, and really hard to predict how it turns out.
However the downside to that is real wages keep falling for the majority.
Have you gone mad?
Didn't he tell a British-born, but Jewish photographer for the Evening Standard to "F**k off back to Israel!" or something?