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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Jeb Bush, 6/4 favourite for the GOP nomination, slips to 7

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  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:



    Off the top of my head France regards its overseas departments as being part of France rather than at all separate. So clearly within the EU. As for "europe" the short answer is there's no fixed definition of what a continent is or what "Europe" is.

    So whether the poorer regions of France can be said to be among the poorest in Europe is a firm, maybe.

    So within the EU, but not actually geographically a part of Europe - which is what inequalitybriefing seem to be referring to - although their use of EU only countries didn't help.

    On the definition of Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe#Definition within the link there's a map of Europe, which again doesn't appear to include Guiania.

    And: Europe is now generally defined by geographers as the western peninsula of Eurasia, with its boundaries marked by large bodies of water to the north, west and south; Europe's limits to the far east are usually taken to be the Urals, the Ural River, and the Caspian Sea; to the southeast, including the Caucasus Mountains, the Black Sea and the waterways connecting the Black Sea to the Mediterranean Sea.
    Of course it depends who you ask, geographers, sociologists, politicians, etc. All will give you different answers, it's a rather flexible concept.
    Even if we take that point, I doubt a country which borders Brazil all the way in South America would be seen as 'Europe' by most in either of those groups. Though I was thinking of the geographical definition of Europe from the off, not the political definition (the EU I assume).
    True, although there is something perverse that somewhere could be the poorest part of France, but not be the poorest part of Europe. The EU is of course distinct from Europe, political viewpoints would place more emphasis on state boundaries (Norway would be in Europe but not the EU) rather than rivers, mountains etc.

    I see your point and I'm not really disagreeing with you as much as saying it's such a flexible concept to not be worth arguing over (because you're arguing semantics rather than facts).

    It's like people saying "Is X a country", or "what was the first democracy". You're arguing over terms which can't really be resolved.
  • 300,000 French residents in London? They must all be in the very wealthy parts of London.

    I dunno, Miss. South Kensington has been a French colony for as long as I can remember, as to where the rest are (if they exist) your guess is as good as mine. I'd look to the places where the trendy young things gather - Shoreditch, maybe, places like that.
    I've never been to Shoreditch - most people I know go to Camden.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Disraeli said:

    If 9 out of 10 of the poorest regions in Northern Europe are in the UK, why is this vital information being withheld from the economic migrants at Calais trying to get through the Eurotunnel?
    They are being lured here on a false prospectus.

    Because even poor regions of the UK are better than Sudan and Eritrea.
    The weather's better in Sudan and Eritrea though..
    No its not! Eritrea is scorchingly hot in the summer, as is most of Sudan.
    That's fine, so long as I can get out of the heat into air conditioning. That's how we exist here.
    My sympathies, I had five summers in Atlanta. They can be very sweaty without a/c. My school was not air conditioned and it was quite a fight for the desks by the only window!

    In Eritrea I suspect A/C is only found in govt offices!

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Artist said:

    I think the £3 thing could have worked well if Corbyn hadn't been nominated. Assuming that it was reasonably close between the three candidates they would have been pitching to people outside the party to boost their vote and if they were successful at that, it would have a been good sign they can appeal to people outside of the party.

    The whole point of the system was to do precisely that, and it was the Blairites who wanted it the most because they thought it would favour them. Here's Alan Milburn saying how they should sign up non-members and make it more like "a US Primary" - from 9:30:

    htps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KjW071EtRk

    Maybe instead of whining about the rules they wanted, they should be reflecting on why the Blairite formula has proved so much less effective at engaging/inspiring normal members of the public enough to sign up than the left-wing formula has.
    Undoubtedly they are unhappy that the non-Corbyn candidates have not excited the outsiders as much as Corbyn has, but they didn't get all the rules they wanted (or at least some of them) - the rules would have prevented Corbyn from being presented to members in the first place, it's just people didn't adhere to the spirit of those rules. Serves them right really.
    If someone who looks like they might poll more than the other 3 candidates put together had been excluded from standing, the rules are rather silly.
    I presume when they were passed the party felt securing a certain level of parliamentary support for any prospective leader was quite important. In the end some decided other factors were more important, such as enabling a wider debate, and so ignored that rule. Neither way is without potential problems.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Tim_B said:

    Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell -

    read the book first or watch the TV show first?

    I've heard good reviews of both (although the TV show wasn't to my taste so I'd say book on principle). Enjoyable in different ways apparently (the book does a lot with footnotes and things that don't really translate to the screen).

    (I realise this wasn't a useful answer really).
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Young professionals have in due course been moving out of London for generations. London's population is at an all time high and rising. I suspect that the current crop of émigrés are eminently replaceable.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    JEO said:

    Plato said:
    Germany's the odd one out there.
    I know a lot of professional friends who have moved from London jobs or are thinking about it. All of them are moving to cities outside the UK. People who can earn 50k salaries anywhere in the world aren't interested in living in a city where half a million only buys them a two bed flat in a nice area. And transport congestion is so bad its a hellish commute from the home counties. London will soon be a place where the super rich can afford to live, and the rest of the population are just people there temporarily to earn their money before moving abroad. We will lose a huge chunk of our young professionals while replacing them with low wage Eastern EU labour.
    My household income is a little short of six figures, in one of the most beautiful counties in the north of England, 1/2 million buys a four bedroom country house. We have a very high standard of living. I know in London we would be cramped in tiny accommodation that would soak up a big chunk of our disposable income.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    300,000 French residents in London? They must all be in the very wealthy parts of London.

    I dunno, Miss. South Kensington has been a French colony for as long as I can remember, as to where the rest are (if they exist) your guess is as good as mine. I'd look to the places where the trendy young things gather - Shoreditch, maybe, places like that.
    Wouldn't there be a lot of Africans who are here on French passports... Not wealthy
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,979
    Only 17% think Burnham would lead Labour to defeat in 2020? Only 20% Cooper? 18% Kendall?

    Just how mad is Labour compared to this box of frogs right here?
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106

    Disraeli said:

    If 9 out of 10 of the poorest regions in Northern Europe are in the UK, why is this vital information being withheld from the economic migrants at Calais trying to get through the Eurotunnel?
    They are being lured here on a false prospectus.

    Because even poor regions of the UK are better than Sudan and Eritrea.
    ...but not as good as richer regions in France where they currently reside. :smiley:
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,170
    antifrank said:

    Tim_B said:

    Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell -

    read the book first or watch the TV show first?

    The book is pretty decent. I didn't watch the TV show though so I can't help you pick.
    I also liked the book, the tv show was kind of meh though, or was as far as I persisted with it anyway.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    EPG said:

    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Artist said:

    I think the £3 thing could have worked well if Corbyn hadn't been nominated. Assuming that it was reasonably close between the three candidates they would have been pitching to people outside the party to boost their vote and if they were successful at that, it would have a been good sign they can appeal to people outside of the party.

    The whole point of the system was to do precisely that, and it was the Blairites who wanted it the most because they thought it would favour them. Here's Alan Milburn saying how they should sign up non-members and make it more like "a US Primary" - from 9:30:

    htps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KjW071EtRk

    Maybe instead of whining about the rules they wanted, they should be reflecting on why the Blairite formula has proved so much less effective at engaging/inspiring normal members of the public enough to sign up than the left-wing formula has.
    Undoubtedly they are unhappy that the non-Corbyn candidates have not excited the outsiders as much as Corbyn has, but they didn't get all the rules they wanted (or at least some of them) - the rules would have prevented Corbyn from being presented to members in the first place, it's just people didn't adhere to the spirit of those rules. Serves them right really.
    If they're so electable why's no-one voting for them...
    They have really been pretty poor. A certain amount of Corbynmania at the sheer novelty would have been expected, but apart from Kendall going from being first out of the blocks to a mere also-ran, Burnham and Cooper really don't seem to have actually countered Corbyn all that much, letting him build up yet more steam. I'd assumed his campaign would peter out, and maybe it still will, but with a lot of votes cast early on, he doesn't have to keep it up the entire time left, and in any case, the momentum seems entirely separate to him to be quite frank. He's not even a very impressive lefty firebrand - but apparently he's the right man in the right moment, given what he is facing.
  • From the Times, Labour revealed yesterday that 88,000 people registered to vote in the party’s leadership contest had not been vetted,
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,979

    Jon Trickett ‏@jon_trickett 4m4 minutes ago
    Who'd have thunk it? 450,000 eligible to vote for Leader? They said politics was dying! Yes it was - the old politics.

    That is quite possibly though the entire pool of voters for Labour in 2020.....
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell -

    read the book first or watch the TV show first?


    Go do something interesting instead.

    I am reorganizing my beer mat collection, but I'm almost finished. ;)
    Alphabetically? Or by shape? Size?

    It's got to be more interesting than the location of émigrés and their strange reluctance to open schools in Camden.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    From the Times, Labour revealed yesterday that 88,000 people registered to vote in the party’s leadership contest had not been vetted,

    About 1 in 5 then.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    isam said:

    300,000 French residents in London? They must all be in the very wealthy parts of London.

    I dunno, Miss. South Kensington has been a French colony for as long as I can remember, as to where the rest are (if they exist) your guess is as good as mine. I'd look to the places where the trendy young things gather - Shoreditch, maybe, places like that.
    Wouldn't there be a lot of Africans who are here on French passports... Not wealthy
    Very likely. More than a few at Premiership grounds for a start. Also as Algeria was a part of Metropolitan France until 1962 (and the EEC!) There are a large number of Algerians with French passports, includind the sensational Riyad Mahrez of Leicester City.

  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Disraeli said:

    If 9 out of 10 of the poorest regions in Northern Europe are in the UK, why is this vital information being withheld from the economic migrants at Calais trying to get through the Eurotunnel?
    They are being lured here on a false prospectus.

    Because even poor regions of the UK are better than Sudan and Eritrea.
    The weather's better in Sudan and Eritrea though..
    No its not! Eritrea is scorchingly hot in the summer, as is most of Sudan.
    That's fine, so long as I can get out of the heat into air conditioning. That's how we exist here.
    My sympathies, I had five summers in Atlanta. They can be very sweaty without a/c. My school was not air conditioned and it was quite a fight for the desks by the only window!

    In Eritrea I suspect A/C is only found in govt offices!

    You must have been here a long time ago!

    I think I've mentioned this before, but in 2011 the PGA Championship was here. The hole I was marshalling had no shade. That was the year we had 95 straight days over 95. The hole chairman spent the entire day on a golf cart bringing us bottles of water. I had over a dozen, and didn't go to the bathroom once. When I got home my clothes were caked in salt.

    I wouldn't live anywhere else, except down the road in Augusta, where it's hotter, but I lived there for 12 years already.
  • JEO said:

    Plato said:
    Germany's the odd one out there.
    I know a lot of professional friends who have moved from London jobs or are thinking about it. All of them are moving to cities outside the UK. People who can earn 50k salaries anywhere in the world aren't interested in living in a city where half a million only buys them a two bed flat in a nice area. And transport congestion is so bad its a hellish commute from the home counties. London will soon be a place where the super rich can afford to live, and the rest of the population are just people there temporarily to earn their money before moving abroad. We will lose a huge chunk of our young professionals while replacing them with low wage Eastern EU labour.
    That's a great post. Your point on housing just sums up how ridiculous things have gotten in London. My mum was looking on RightMove some weeks ago, to see just how expensive properties in the area we used live in a decade ago (Brent) and my grandparents now currently do (specifically Harlesden). I saw 1 bedroom flats for more than 200k, sometimes 300k. It's beyond stupid.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell -

    read the book first or watch the TV show first?


    Go do something interesting instead.

    I am reorganizing my beer mat collection, but I'm almost finished. ;)
    Alphabetically? Or by shape? Size?

    It's got to be more interesting than the location of émigrés and their strange reluctance to open schools in Camden.
    - or counting the boats in the canal.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Strange and Norell - thank you folks: book first.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547
    Fenster said:

    I'd vote Corbyn if I were a Labour supporter.

    F**k it. Why not.

    Febrile times; the other candidates won't move a single voter in Scotland; the task for Labour looks nigh on impossible anyway; voters are agitating for an era away from managerial politics, and like Mr Palmer says, at least Corbyn isn't intolerant of debate.

    He has baggage galore and dubious 'friends' and would probably suffer a military coup led by Princess Anne if he ever became PM. He will undoubtedly be marmalised by the Tories and the right wing press and may even split his party. But the media loves a rags to riches story, the economy is worryingly unpredictable and the Brits relish an underdog - he'd give Labour an undeniable interest factor and will have a raft of populist policies to win over the starry-eyed and indelibly naive.

    I can't see Labour getting out of first base with Burnham. He'd be marginally better than Miliband maybe, but he certainly won't win a GE2020. Cooper is probably the sensibilists sensible shout but would she win a GE? Would she inspire the GOTV campaign and jump-start the chavs (like me) away from their rizlas and green? Sadly, even though she is a woman and a decent politician, I don't think she'd win either.

    So it's worth a crack. Team Jezzer for me.

    Corbyn will be like a Molotov Cocktail thrown onto a petrol can in a fireworks factory. He would make British politics more fascinating than its ever been.

    I can see the attraction. All the worthwhile ideas in politics come from the Right or the Left. None come from the Centre, which is merely the mid-point between the two.

    But, I just don't see Corbyn's programme as being anything other than unpopular to 70% of the voters.
  • Disraeli said:

    Disraeli said:

    If 9 out of 10 of the poorest regions in Northern Europe are in the UK, why is this vital information being withheld from the economic migrants at Calais trying to get through the Eurotunnel?
    They are being lured here on a false prospectus.

    Because even poor regions of the UK are better than Sudan and Eritrea.
    ...but not as good as richer regions in France where they currently reside. :smiley:
    It's strange why they don't want to go to France. Maybe it's because they speak some English, so think things will be more easier here?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    I remember in the morning thread reading tons of comments about their favourite Bond film, most of them settling for Thunderball, I remember there was this other Bond movie that had all the other stars from Thunderball (and I found it) with one critical exception of Sean Connery being replaced by Neil Connery (you have to see it to believe the over the top "Austin Powers" like production and acting) :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryrTxYyJb6k
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106


    That's a great post. Your point on housing just sums up how ridiculous things have gotten in London. My mum was looking on RightMove some weeks ago, to see just how expensive properties in the area we used live in a decade ago (Brent) and my grandparents now currently do (specifically Harlesden). I saw 1 bedroom flats for more than 200k, sometimes 300k. It's beyond stupid.

    Absolutely right! I live in a very modest house that would be well below the average price here in London. I bought it in the eighties, but I couldn't afford to buy it now. I couldn't get anywhere near the price, in fact.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,979
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Disraeli said:

    If 9 out of 10 of the poorest regions in Northern Europe are in the UK, why is this vital information being withheld from the economic migrants at Calais trying to get through the Eurotunnel?
    They are being lured here on a false prospectus.

    Because even poor regions of the UK are better than Sudan and Eritrea.
    The weather's better in Sudan and Eritrea though..
    No its not! Eritrea is scorchingly hot in the summer, as is most of Sudan.
    That's fine, so long as I can get out of the heat into air conditioning. That's how we exist here.
    My sympathies, I had five summers in Atlanta. They can be very sweaty without a/c. My school was not air conditioned and it was quite a fight for the desks by the only window!

    In Eritrea I suspect A/C is only found in govt offices!

    You must have been here a long time ago!

    I think I've mentioned this before, but in 2011 the PGA Championship was here. The hole I was marshalling had no shade. That was the year we had 95 straight days over 95. The hole chairman spent the entire day on a golf cart bringing us bottles of water. I had over a dozen, and didn't go to the bathroom once. When I got home my clothes were caked in salt.

    I wouldn't live anywhere else, except down the road in Augusta, where it's hotter, but I lived there for 12 years already.
    Just for a moment, I read your post thinking "the 2011 PGA Championship was held in Eritrea?" An early night, perhaps....
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Disraeli said:

    If 9 out of 10 of the poorest regions in Northern Europe are in the UK, why is this vital information being withheld from the economic migrants at Calais trying to get through the Eurotunnel?
    They are being lured here on a false prospectus.

    Because even poor regions of the UK are better than Sudan and Eritrea.
    The weather's better in Sudan and Eritrea though..
    No its not! Eritrea is scorchingly hot in the summer, as is most of Sudan.
    That's fine, so long as I can get out of the heat into air conditioning. That's how we exist here.
    My sympathies, I had five summers in Atlanta. They can be very sweaty without a/c. My school was not air conditioned and it was quite a fight for the desks by the only window!

    In Eritrea I suspect A/C is only found in govt offices!

    You must have been here a long time ago!

    I think I've mentioned this before, but in 2011 the PGA Championship was here. The hole I was marshalling had no shade. That was the year we had 95 straight days over 95. The hole chairman spent the entire day on a golf cart bringing us bottles of water. I had over a dozen, and didn't go to the bathroom once. When I got home my clothes were caked in salt.

    I wouldn't live anywhere else, except down the road in Augusta, where it's hotter, but I lived there for 12 years already.
    I went to Dunwoody High School until 1979. It was built for A/C with only one window in each room, but the school could not afford the electricity. Being off for 3 months in the summer chasing lightning bugs by the sub-division pool was quite tolerable though!
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Ta.

    I wonder why those questions weren't included in the YouGov datasets.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    kle4 said:

    EPG said:

    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Artist said:

    I think the £3 thing could have worked well if Corbyn hadn't been nominated. Assuming that it was reasonably close between the three candidates they would have been pitching to people outside the party to boost their vote and if they were successful at that, it would have a been good sign they can appeal to people outside of the party.

    The whole point of the system was to do precisely that, and it was the Blairites who wanted it the most because they thought it would favour them. Here's Alan Milburn saying how they should sign up non-members and make it more like "a US Primary" - from 9:30:

    htps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KjW071EtRk

    Maybe instead of whining about the rules they wanted, they should be reflecting on why the Blairite formula has proved so much less effective at engaging/inspiring normal members of the public enough to sign up than the left-wing formula has.
    Undoubtedly they are unhappy that the non-Corbyn candidates have not excited the outsiders as much as Corbyn has, but they didn't get all the rules they wanted (or at least some of them) - the rules would have prevented Corbyn from being presented to members in the first place, it's just people didn't adhere to the spirit of those rules. Serves them right really.
    If they're so electable why's no-one voting for them...
    They have really been pretty poor. A certain amount of Corbynmania at the sheer novelty would have been expected, but apart from Kendall going from being first out of the blocks to a mere also-ran, Burnham and Cooper really don't seem to have actually countered Corbyn all that much, letting him build up yet more steam. I'd assumed his campaign would peter out, and maybe it still will, but with a lot of votes cast early on, he doesn't have to keep it up the entire time left, and in any case, the momentum seems entirely separate to him to be quite frank. He's not even a very impressive lefty firebrand - but apparently he's the right man in the right moment, given what he is facing.
    I do toy with the idea that it's part of a ongoing shift. Politics used to be grand movements (often representing swathes of society), then moved to what gets called valence politics where it was about a competition of competence rather than ideas.

    Is this followed by a backlash for principles over professionalism? Where people care that someone appears to stand firmly for something, whatever that something may be.

    See Farage, Corbyn etc. (Although if this is true it's probably more accurate to call it a minor effect rather than a major new paradigm).
  • Danny565 said:

    Ta.

    I wonder why those questions weren't included in the YouGov datasets.
    I think they did what they did last time, split the polling over two days..

    The data sets will be out tomorrow
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Danny565 said:

    Ta.

    I wonder why those questions weren't included in the YouGov datasets.
    I thought it a little weird that they only included one other question.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547

    JEO said:

    Plato said:
    Germany's the odd one out there.
    I know a lot of professional friends who have moved from London jobs or are thinking about it. All of them are moving to cities outside the UK. People who can earn 50k salaries anywhere in the world aren't interested in living in a city where half a million only buys them a two bed flat in a nice area. And transport congestion is so bad its a hellish commute from the home counties. London will soon be a place where the super rich can afford to live, and the rest of the population are just people there temporarily to earn their money before moving abroad. We will lose a huge chunk of our young professionals while replacing them with low wage Eastern EU labour.
    That's a great post. Your point on housing just sums up how ridiculous things have gotten in London. My mum was looking on RightMove some weeks ago, to see just how expensive properties in the area we used live in a decade ago (Brent) and my grandparents now currently do (specifically Harlesden). I saw 1 bedroom flats for more than 200k, sometimes 300k. It's beyond stupid.
    It is absurd. £500,000 gets you a nice two bed flat in a nice part of London. Here, it gets you a 4 bed detached house with half an acre of garden.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    kle4 said:

    EPG said:

    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Artist said:

    I think the £3 thing could have worked well if Corbyn hadn't been nominated. Assuming that it was reasonably close between the three candidates they would have been pitching to people outside the party to boost their vote and if they were successful at that, it would have a been good sign they can appeal to people outside of the party.

    The whole point of the system was to do precisely that, and it was the Blairites who wanted it the most because they thought it would favour them. Here's Alan Milburn saying how they should sign up non-members and make it more like "a US Primary" - from 9:30:

    htps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KjW071EtRk

    Maybe instead of whining about the rules they wanted, they should be reflecting on why the Blairite formula has proved so much less effective at engaging/inspiring normal members of the public enough to sign up than the left-wing formula has.
    Undoubtedly they are unhappy that the non-Corbyn candidates have not excited the outsiders as much as Corbyn has, but they didn't get all the rules they wanted (or at least some of them) - the rules would have prevented Corbyn from being presented to members in the first place, it's just people didn't adhere to the spirit of those rules. Serves them right really.
    If they're so electable why's no-one voting for them...
    They have really been pretty poor. A certain amount of Corbynmania at the sheer novelty would have been expected, but apart from Kendall going from being first out of the blocks to a mere also-ran, Burnham and Cooper really don't seem to have actually countered Corbyn all that much, letting him build up yet more steam. I'd assumed his campaign would peter out, and maybe it still will, but with a lot of votes cast early on, he doesn't have to keep it up the entire time left, and in any case, the momentum seems entirely separate to him to be quite frank. He's not even a very impressive lefty firebrand - but apparently he's the right man in the right moment, given what he is facing.
    Only Jezza can answer the question: what changed between 9:59:59pm and 10:00:01pm on May 7th? For him of course nothing did as he has always been out there bonkers on the left.

    As for the others, it must stick in the craw of (Lab) voters to hear a bunch of people who were supposedly gung-ho 100% Ed/Lab fans pre-May 7th now announce how dreadful it all was.

    Why did none of them say anything before? It's a leadership race, Jezza apart, full of David Milliband-esque bottlers. Who can blame Lab voters for choosing JC?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    corporeal said:

    kle4 said:

    EPG said:

    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Artist said:

    I think the £3 thing could have worked well if Corbyn hadn't been nominated. Assuming that it was reasonably close between the three candidates they would have been pitching to people outside the party to boost their vote and if they were successful at that, it would have a been good sign they can appeal to people outside of the party.

    The whole point of the system was to do precisely that, and it was the Blairites who wanted it the most because they thought it would favour them. Here's Alan Milburn saying how they should sign up non-members and make it more like "a US Primary" - from 9:30:

    htps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KjW071EtRk

    Maybe instead of whining about the rules they wanted, they should be reflecting on why the Blairite formula has proved so much less effective at engaging/inspiring normal members of the public enough to sign up than the left-wing formula has.
    Undoubtedly they are unhappy that the non-Corbyn candidates have not excited the outsiders as much as Corbyn has, but they didn't get all the rules they wanted (or at least some of them) - the rules would have prevented Corbyn from being presented to members in the first place, it's just people didn't adhere to the spirit of those rules. Serves them right really.
    If they're so electable why's no-one voting for them...
    I do toy with the idea that it's part of a ongoing shift. Politics used to be grand movements (often representing swathes of society), then moved to what gets called valence politics where it was about a competition of competence rather than ideas.

    Is this followed by a backlash for principles over professionalism? Where people care that someone appears to stand firmly for something, whatever that something may be.

    See Farage, Corbyn etc. (Although if this is true it's probably more accurate to call it a minor effect rather than a major new paradigm).
    I have tended to scoff at the idea there is a shift occurring, but even if it is not now, it surely will at some point I'd have thought. Identikit party automatons have risen to the top because it has worked, even if on a personal level people enjoy more individualistic types, but it has been the norm for a while and probably will for awhile, and eventually I'd have thought there'd be a reaction, even if as you say it is more minor than major. The need for some in UKIP and the SNP to see their leaders as entirely transformative in every way, when in many ways they are very similar to the rest of the political classes, does perhaps speak to a desire for that shift, even if I have my doubts it will stick. We'll see.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Disraeli said:

    If 9 out of 10 of the poorest regions in Northern Europe are in the UK, why is this vital information being withheld from the economic migrants at Calais trying to get through the Eurotunnel?
    They are being lured here on a false prospectus.

    Because even poor regions of the UK are better than Sudan and Eritrea.
    The weather's better in Sudan and Eritrea though..
    No its not! Eritrea is scorchingly hot in the summer, as is most of Sudan.
    That's fine, so long as I can get out of the heat into air conditioning. That's how we exist here.
    My sympathies, I had five summers in Atlanta. They can be very sweaty without a/c. My school was not air conditioned and it was quite a fight for the desks by the only window!

    In Eritrea I suspect A/C is only found in govt offices!

    You must have been here a long time ago!

    I think I've mentioned this before, but in 2011 the PGA Championship was here. The hole I was marshalling had no shade. That was the year we had 95 straight days over 95. The hole chairman spent the entire day on a golf cart bringing us bottles of water. I had over a dozen, and didn't go to the bathroom once. When I got home my clothes were caked in salt.

    I wouldn't live anywhere else, except down the road in Augusta, where it's hotter, but I lived there for 12 years already.
    I went to Dunwoody High School until 1979. It was built for A/C with only one window in each room, but the school could not afford the electricity.!
    Reminds me of my school, where we use to say they could only afford heating bills six months of the year, and for some reason opted for spring and summer, hence our freezing classrooms. I'm sure other schools made similar observations.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    http://m.scotsman.com/lifestyle/arts/news/snp-in-cronyism-row-over-t-in-the-park-grant-1-3855346

    Angus Robertsons partner filling her trough with taxpayers money.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Disraeli said:

    If 9 out of 10 of the poorest regions in Northern Europe are in the UK, why is this vital information being withheld from the economic migrants at Calais trying to get through the Eurotunnel?
    They are being lured here on a false prospectus.

    Because even poor regions of the UK are better than Sudan and Eritrea.
    The weather's better in Sudan and Eritrea though..
    No its not! Eritrea is scorchingly hot in the summer, as is most of Sudan.
    That's fine, so long as I can get out of the heat into air conditioning. That's how we exist here.
    My sympathies, I had five summers in Atlanta. They can be very sweaty without a/c. My school was not air conditioned and it was quite a fight for the desks by the only window!

    In Eritrea I suspect A/C is only found in govt offices!

    You must have been here a long time ago!

    I think I've mentioned this before, but in 2011 the PGA Championship was here. The hole I was marshalling had no shade. That was the year we had 95 straight days over 95. The hole chairman spent the entire day on a golf cart bringing us bottles of water. I had over a dozen, and didn't go to the bathroom once. When I got home my clothes were caked in salt.

    I wouldn't live anywhere else, except down the road in Augusta, where it's hotter, but I lived there for 12 years already.
    I went to Dunwoody High School until 1979. It was built for A/C with only one window in each room, but the school could not afford the electricity. Being off for 3 months in the summer chasing lightning bugs by the sub-division pool was quite tolerable though!
    I first started working here in the mid-80s, living in Augusta. At that time the metro area population was about 2 million - it is now well over 5 million. You wouldn't recognize the place today. I live in Gwinnett, which was the fastest growing county in the country for 2 decades.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Disraeli said:

    If 9 out of 10 of the poorest regions in Northern Europe are in the UK, why is this vital information being withheld from the economic migrants at Calais trying to get through the Eurotunnel?
    They are being lured here on a false prospectus.

    Because even poor regions of the UK are better than Sudan and Eritrea.
    The weather's better in Sudan and Eritrea though..
    No its not! Eritrea is scorchingly hot in the summer, as is most of Sudan.
    That's fine, so long as I can get out of the heat into air conditioning. That's how we exist here.
    My sympathies, I had five summers in Atlanta. They can be very sweaty without a/c. My school was not air conditioned and it was quite a fight for the desks by the only window!

    In Eritrea I suspect A/C is only found in govt offices!

    You must have been here a long time ago!

    I think I've mentioned this before, but in 2011 the PGA Championship was here. The hole I was marshalling had no shade. That was the year we had 95 straight days over 95. The hole chairman spent the entire day on a golf cart bringing us bottles of water. I had over a dozen, and didn't go to the bathroom once. When I got home my clothes were caked in salt.

    I wouldn't live anywhere else, except down the road in Augusta, where it's hotter, but I lived there for 12 years already.
    Just for a moment, I read your post thinking "the 2011 PGA Championship was held in Eritrea?" An early night, perhaps....
    I think it's there in 2018 ;)
  • Disraeli said:


    That's a great post. Your point on housing just sums up how ridiculous things have gotten in London. My mum was looking on RightMove some weeks ago, to see just how expensive properties in the area we used live in a decade ago (Brent) and my grandparents now currently do (specifically Harlesden). I saw 1 bedroom flats for more than 200k, sometimes 300k. It's beyond stupid.

    Absolutely right! I live in a very modest house that would be well below the average price here in London. I bought it in the eighties, but I couldn't afford to buy it now. I couldn't get anywhere near the price, in fact.
    My grandparents live a fairly big four bedroom house, with a garden, a dining room - they brought it in the early 1960s. Given that on their street, the flat conversions for two bedroom flats range from 200k - 300k, god knows what their house is worth. They would no doubt not be able to afford their house now. I've seen 4 bedroom detached houses in Brent cost more than a million quid.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    EPG said:

    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Artist said:

    I think the £3 thing could have worked well if Corbyn hadn't been nominated. Assuming that it was reasonably close between the three candidates they would have been pitching to people outside the party to boost their vote and if they were successful at that, it would have a been good sign they can appeal to people outside of the party.

    The whole point of the system was to do precisely that, and it was the Blairites who wanted it the most because they thought it would favour them. Here's Alan Milburn saying how they should sign up non-members and make it more like "a US Primary" - from 9:30:

    htps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KjW071EtRk

    Maybe instead of whining about the rules they wanted, they should be reflecting on why the Blairite formula has proved so much less effective at engaging/inspiring normal members of the public enough to sign up than the left-wing formula has.
    Undoubtedly they are unhappy that the non-Corbyn candidates have not excited the outsiders as much as Corbyn has, but they didn't get all the rules they wanted (or at least some of them) - the rules would have prevented Corbyn from being presented to members in the first place, it's just people didn't adhere to the spirit of those rules. Serves them right really.
    If they're so electable why's no-one voting for them...
    Th
    Only Jezza can answer the question: what changed between 9:59:59pm and 10:00:01pm on May 7th? For him of course nothing did as he has always been out there bonkers on the left.

    As for the others, it must stick in the craw of (Lab) voters to hear a bunch of people who were supposedly gung-ho 100% Ed/Lab fans pre-May 7th now announce how dreadful it all was.

    Why did none of them say anything before?
    Well of course early on, before the official campaign, they were often trying to say how wonderful Ed M was and how well everyone had campaigned, while also trying to say how terrible a job had been done, which was amusing to watch in some ways (I believe at some Progress event the moderator implored them not to open with that same spiel, as they'd all heard it before).
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Plato said:

    Jeez. Either criminally incompetent or lazy.

    calum said:

    Kezia Dugdale interview:

    “It was a very centralised campaign. We had lots of money and lots of resources but it was all spent through the office in Glasgow. So we had identical leaflets going out to every part of the country, where the message that you want to put out in Edinburgh about the financial sector and jobs connected to that is different from rural transport issues you want to talk about in Fife or housing issues in the East End of Glasgow. It’s technologically easier and cheaper now to have more nuanced messages and we didn’t do that.”

    But at the same time that sounds like something that is easy to fix. Get in a competent campaign manager, do the year or two of ground work that would be required and you'd see 'instant' results.
  • Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    Plato said:
    Germany's the odd one out there.
    I know a lot of professional friends who have moved from London jobs or are thinking about it. All of them are moving to cities outside the UK. People who can earn 50k salaries anywhere in the world aren't interested in living in a city where half a million only buys them a two bed flat in a nice area. And transport congestion is so bad its a hellish commute from the home counties. London will soon be a place where the super rich can afford to live, and the rest of the population are just people there temporarily to earn their money before moving abroad. We will lose a huge chunk of our young professionals while replacing them with low wage Eastern EU labour.
    That's a great post. Your point on housing just sums up how ridiculous things have gotten in London. My mum was looking on RightMove some weeks ago, to see just how expensive properties in the area we used live in a decade ago (Brent) and my grandparents now currently do (specifically Harlesden). I saw 1 bedroom flats for more than 200k, sometimes 300k. It's beyond stupid.
    It is absurd. £500,000 gets you a nice two bed flat in a nice part of London. Here, it gets you a 4 bed detached house with half an acre of garden.
    More and more will have to live outside London in order to buy, probably even rent properties. The trouble is the sheer cost of travelling from outside London into London.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,714
    I still can't fathom what Labour are doing with this Corbyn lark. Don't they remember when they wholeheartedly embraced centrism? It was the best fun they ever had!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZUMEgHmCY8
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834

    JEO said:

    Plato said:
    Germany's the odd one out there.
    I know a lot of professional friends who have moved from London jobs or are thinking about it. All of them are moving to cities outside the UK. People who can earn 50k salaries anywhere in the world aren't interested in living in a city where half a million only buys them a two bed flat in a nice area. And transport congestion is so bad its a hellish commute from the home counties. London will soon be a place where the super rich can afford to live, and the rest of the population are just people there temporarily to earn their money before moving abroad. We will lose a huge chunk of our young professionals while replacing them with low wage Eastern EU labour.
    That's a great post. Your point on housing just sums up how ridiculous things have gotten in London. My mum was looking on RightMove some weeks ago, to see just how expensive properties in the area we used live in a decade ago (Brent) and my grandparents now currently do (specifically Harlesden). I saw 1 bedroom flats for more than 200k, sometimes 300k. It's beyond stupid.
    It's that sort of thing, as much as anything else, which will drive the northern powerhouse.
  • Not good for democracy

    Two thirds of Labour’s front bench roles would be left unfilled if Jeremy Corbyn wins the leadership because MPs will refuse to back his policies, shadow cabinet ministers have warned.

    As few as 30 MPs would be willing to sign up to take jobs under Mr Corbyn in a move that would effectively stop the party functioning as an opposition, senior figures have warned.

    It would leave dozens of shadow ministerial positions empty – giving the Tories free reign to push ahead with reforms unopposed in the Commons as Labour disintegrates into internal bickering.

    http://bit.ly/1IIJgBa
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited August 2015

    I still can't fathom what Labour are doing with this Corbyn lark. Don't they remember when they wholeheartedly embraced centrism? It was the best fun they ever had!

    htps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZUMEgHmCY8

    "I doubt he could put his manifesto to his Cabinet and get 95% support"

    Ouch! Good line.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Disraeli said:


    That's a great post. Your point on housing just sums up how ridiculous things have gotten in London. My mum was looking on RightMove some weeks ago, to see just how expensive properties in the area we used live in a decade ago (Brent) and my grandparents now currently do (specifically Harlesden). I saw 1 bedroom flats for more than 200k, sometimes 300k. It's beyond stupid.

    Absolutely right! I live in a very modest house that would be well below the average price here in London. I bought it in the eighties, but I couldn't afford to buy it now. I couldn't get anywhere near the price, in fact.
    My grandparents live a fairly big four bedroom house, with a garden, a dining room - they brought it in the early 1960s. Given that on their street, the flat conversions for two bedroom flats range from 200k - 300k, god knows what their house is worth. They would no doubt not be able to afford their house now. I've seen 4 bedroom detached houses in Brent cost more than a million quid.
    I bought a nice new dressed stone fairly large 4 bedroom 3 bathroom detached house with a double garage near Harrogate in 2008 for 150k pounds.

    I sold it 7 years later for 370k pounds. That is insanity.

    It sold last year for only 15k pounds more than I sold it for.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    Tim_B said:

    Disraeli said:


    That's a great post. Your point on housing just sums up how ridiculous things have gotten in London. My mum was looking on RightMove some weeks ago, to see just how expensive properties in the area we used live in a decade ago (Brent) and my grandparents now currently do (specifically Harlesden). I saw 1 bedroom flats for more than 200k, sometimes 300k. It's beyond stupid.

    Absolutely right! I live in a very modest house that would be well below the average price here in London. I bought it in the eighties, but I couldn't afford to buy it now. I couldn't get anywhere near the price, in fact.
    My grandparents live a fairly big four bedroom house, with a garden, a dining room - they brought it in the early 1960s. Given that on their street, the flat conversions for two bedroom flats range from 200k - 300k, god knows what their house is worth. They would no doubt not be able to afford their house now. I've seen 4 bedroom detached houses in Brent cost more than a million quid.
    I bought a nice new dressed stone fairly large 4 bedroom 3 bathroom detached house with a double garage near Harrogate in 2008 for 150k pounds.

    I sold it 7 years later for 370k pounds. That is insanity.

    It sold last year for only 15k pounds more than I sold it for.
    Is that first 2008 date right?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Disraeli said:

    If 9 out of 10 of the poorest regions in Northern Europe are in the UK, why is this vital information being withheld from the economic migrants at Calais trying to get through the Eurotunnel?
    They are being lured here on a false prospectus.

    Because even poor regions of the UK are better than Sudan and Eritrea.
    The weather's better in Sudan and Eritrea though..
    No its not! Eritrea is scorchingly hot in the summer, as is most of Sudan.
    That's fine, so long as I can get out of the heat into air conditioning. That's how we exist here.
    My sympathies, I had five summers in Atlanta. They can be very sweaty without a/c. My school was not air conditioned and it was quite a fight for the desks by the only window!

    In Eritrea I suspect A/C is only found in govt

    You must have been here a long time ago!

    I think I've mentioned this before, but in 2011 the PGA Championship was here. The hole I was marshalling had no shade. That was the year we had 95 straight days over 95. The hole chairman spent the entire day on a golf cart bringing us bottles of water. I had over a dozen, and didn't go to the bathroom once. When I got home my clothes were caked in salt.

    I wouldn't live anywhere else, except down the road in Augusta, where it's hotter, but I lived there for 12 years already.
    I went to Dunwoody High School until 1979. It was built for A/C with only one window in each room, but the school could not afford the electricity. Being off for 3 months in the summer chasing lightning bugs by the sub-division pool was quite tolerable though!
    I first started working here in the mid-80s, living in Augusta. At that time the metro area population was about 2 million - it is now well over 5 million. You wouldn't recognize the place today. I live in Gwinnett, which was the fastest growing county in the country for 2 decades.
    I think there were about 1.5 million in Atlanta when my family left in 79. It must have been a pretty insufferable place before widespread A/C.

    Why come back to England in 79 in the middle of the winter of discontent is an obvious question. My folks had 3 fairly bright kids and knew that they couldn't afford university fees in the USA, I suspect that they would have stayed if on current terms.

    If you think British state schools are bad, you should try american high school. Maths and English were well taught but the rest was pretty dire. I was well behind my peers when stating O levels in 79, though did pretty well in the end.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Things not getting better in Greece:

    "Chaos has broken out on the Greek island of Kos amid attempts to relocate hundreds of migrants to a football stadium for registration.
    Police officers used batons and sprayed fire extinguishers as they tried to impose order on the crowds.
    It comes after an officer on Kos was suspended for slapping one man while brandishing a knife.
    Authorities are struggling with a rapidly growing number of migrants who have arrived hoping for a better life."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33861290
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    300,000 French residents in London? They must all be in the very wealthy parts of London.

    I dunno, Miss. South Kensington has been a French colony for as long as I can remember, as to where the rest are (if they exist) your guess is as good as mine. I'd look to the places where the trendy young things gather - Shoreditch, maybe, places like that.
    I've never been to Shoreditch - most people I know go to Camden.
    You've never been to Shoreditch? I suppose Whitechapel, Bethnal Green and Hoxton are beyond your experience too? What about the City or even Clerkenwell?

    One day, Miss, when my eyes are better I shall invite you to do a walk around what my Dad called real London. It may open your eyes more than a little.

    Which reminds me. For family rather than commercial reason, I am at present putting together a series of unguided walks around the City. Each should last about three hours including essential stops for refreshment and come with a series of maps and a written commentary. I could do with some beta testers, especially as I can no longer get up to do the walks myself. So if any of you people fancy a stroll round the City learning about some of its history and are prepared to send me an email afterwards telling me how it went please do drop me a note HurstLlama at Gmail dot com will find me.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,955
    Fenster said:

    marmalised

    Wonderful word.

    Nearly as good as "chortle" and "wazzock".
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    kle4 said:

    corporeal said:

    kle4 said:

    EPG said:

    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Artist said:

    I think the £3 thing could have worked well if Corbyn hadn't been nominated. Assuming that it was reasonably close between the three candidates they would have been pitching to people outside the party to boost their vote and if they were successful at that, it would have a been good sign they can appeal to people outside of the party.

    The whole point of the system was to do precisely that, and it was the Blairites who wanted it the most because they thought it would favour them. Here's Alan Milburn saying how they should sign up non-members and make it more like "a US Primary" - from 9:30:

    htps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KjW071EtRk

    Maybe instead of whining about the rules they wanted, they should be reflecting on why the Blairite formula has proved so much less effective at engaging/inspiring normal members of the public enough to sign up than the left-wing formula has.
    If they're so electable why's no-one voting for them...

    See Farage, Corbyn etc. (Although if this is true it's probably more accurate to call it a minor effect rather than a major new paradigm).
    I have tended to scoff at the idea there is a shift occurring, but even if it is not now, it surely will at some point I'd have thought. Identikit party automatons have risen to the top because it has worked, even if on a personal level people enjoy more individualistic types, but it has been the norm for a while and probably will for awhile, and eventually I'd have thought there'd be a reaction, even if as you say it is more minor than major. The need for some in UKIP and the SNP to see their leaders as entirely transformative in every way, when in many ways they are very similar to the rest of the political classes, does perhaps speak to a desire for that shift, even if I have my doubts it will stick. We'll see.
    I think it'll remain a significant sub-current, but not more than that. The principled and passionate stand out against the polished but plain, essentially civil servants with rosettes tacked on.

    Of course it's always harder to be dramatic from the centre, even moreso when you've won (how can the establishment be revolutionary).

    The revolutionary appeal is somewhat limited by what their beliefs are, if someone in the centre can harness the appearance (genuine or not) of that passionate principles then great success awaits them (I'm tempted to say see Obama, but that's very reductive).
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Fenster said:

    I'd vote Corbyn if I were a Labour supporter.

    F**k it. Why not.

    Febrile times; the other candidates won't move a single voter in Scotland; the task for Labour looks nigh on impossible anyway; voters are agitating for an era away from managerial politics, and like Mr Palmer says, at least Corbyn isn't intolerant of debate.

    He has baggage galore and dubious 'friends' and would probably suffer a military coup led by Princess Anne if he ever became PM. He will undoubtedly be marmalised by the Tories and the right wing press and may even split his party. But the media loves a rags to riches story, the economy is worryingly unpredictable and the Brits relish an underdog - he'd give Labour an undeniable interest factor and will have a raft of populist policies to win over the starry-eyed and indelibly naive.

    I can't see Labour getting out of first base with Burnham. He'd be marginally better than Miliband maybe, but he certainly won't win a GE2020. Cooper is probably the sensibilists sensible shout but would she win a GE? Would she inspire the GOTV campaign and jump-start the chavs (like me) away from their rizlas and green? Sadly, even though she is a woman and a decent politician, I don't think she'd win either.

    So it's worth a crack. Team Jezzer for me.

    Corbyn will be like a Molotov Cocktail thrown onto a petrol can in a fireworks factory. He would make British politics more fascinating than its ever been.

    I have to disagree. British politics would be more boring than ever since the Tories would be guaranteed a win in 2020 even if their vote share dips slightly compared to 2015.
  • 300,000 French residents in London? They must all be in the very wealthy parts of London.

    I dunno, Miss. South Kensington has been a French colony for as long as I can remember, as to where the rest are (if they exist) your guess is as good as mine. I'd look to the places where the trendy young things gather - Shoreditch, maybe, places like that.
    I've never been to Shoreditch - most people I know go to Camden.
    You've never been to Shoreditch? I suppose Whitechapel, Bethnal Green and Hoxton are beyond your experience too? What about the City or even Clerkenwell?

    One day, Miss, when my eyes are better I shall invite you to do a walk around what my Dad called real London. It may open your eyes more than a little.

    Which reminds me. For family rather than commercial reason, I am at present putting together a series of unguided walks around the City. Each should last about three hours including essential stops for refreshment and come with a series of maps and a written commentary. I could do with some beta testers, especially as I can no longer get up to do the walks myself. So if any of you people fancy a stroll round the City learning about some of its history and are prepared to send me an email afterwards telling me how it went please do drop me a note HurstLlama at Gmail dot com will find me.
    I've been to the City, (many times) and Bethnal Green, don't worry ;) Although Clerkenwell is beyond my experience. What would you define as 'real London'?

    R.E your walks, that reminds me of my now sadly deceased uncle, who loved travelling around London (his bus pass gave him free travel as he was over 65+).
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    Plato said:
    Germany's the odd one out there.
    I know a lot of professional friends who have moved from London jobs or are thinking about it. All of them are moving to cities outside the UK. People who can earn 50k salaries anywhere in the world aren't interested in living in a city where half a million only buys them a two bed flat in a nice area. And transport congestion is so bad its a hellish commute from the home counties. London will soon be a place where the super rich can afford to live, and the rest of the population are just people there temporarily to earn their money before moving abroad. We will lose a huge chunk of our young professionals while replacing them with low wage Eastern EU labour.
    That's a great post. Your point on housing just sums up how ridiculous things have gotten in London. My mum was looking on RightMove some weeks ago, to see just how expensive properties in the area we used live in a decade ago (Brent) and my grandparents now currently do (specifically Harlesden). I saw 1 bedroom flats for more than 200k, sometimes 300k. It's beyond stupid.
    It is absurd. £500,000 gets you a nice two bed flat in a nice part of London. Here, it gets you a 4 bed detached house with half an acre of garden.
    More and more will have to live outside London in order to buy, probably even rent properties. The trouble is the sheer cost of travelling from outside London into London.
    The next step will be for companies to move out of London to reduce costs.
  • @foxinsoxuk, Wow that's quite interesting r.e you going to an American High School. Do you have an American accent, if I may ask? :grin:
  • 300,000 French residents in London? They must all be in the very wealthy parts of London.

    I dunno, Miss. South Kensington has been a French colony for as long as I can remember, as to where the rest are (if they exist) your guess is as good as mine. I'd look to the places where the trendy young things gather - Shoreditch, maybe, places like that.
    I've never been to Shoreditch - most people I know go to Camden.
    You've never been to Shoreditch? I suppose Whitechapel, Bethnal Green and Hoxton are beyond your experience too? What about the City or even Clerkenwell?

    One day, Miss, when my eyes are better I shall invite you to do a walk around what my Dad called real London. It may open your eyes more than a little.

    Which reminds me. For family rather than commercial reason, I am at present putting together a series of unguided walks around the City. Each should last about three hours including essential stops for refreshment and come with a series of maps and a written commentary. I could do with some beta testers, especially as I can no longer get up to do the walks myself. So if any of you people fancy a stroll round the City learning about some of its history and are prepared to send me an email afterwards telling me how it went please do drop me a note HurstLlama at Gmail dot com will find me.
    I've been to the City, (many times) and Bethnal Green, don't worry ;) Although Clerkenwell is beyond my experience. What would you define as 'real London'?

    R.E your walks, that reminds me of my now sadly deceased uncle, who loved travelling around London (his bus pass gave him free travel as he was over 65+).
    [swaggering] I've visited every National Rail, Underground, DLR and Tramlink station in London, man! All 661 of them! Mostly during season 2008-2009, plus the few that opened since then on new lines.
  • Speedy said:

    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    Plato said:
    Germany's the odd one out there.
    I know a lot of professional friends who have moved from London jobs or are thinking about it. All of them are moving to cities outside the UK. People who can earn 50k salaries anywhere in the world aren't interested in living in a city where half a million only buys them a two bed flat in a nice area. And transport congestion is so bad its a hellish commute from the home counties. London will soon be a place where the super rich can afford to live, and the rest of the population are just people there temporarily to earn their money before moving abroad. We will lose a huge chunk of our young professionals while replacing them with low wage Eastern EU labour.
    That's a great post. Your point on housing just sums up how ridiculous things have gotten in London. My mum was looking on RightMove some weeks ago, to see just how expensive properties in the area we used live in a decade ago (Brent) and my grandparents now currently do (specifically Harlesden). I saw 1 bedroom flats for more than 200k, sometimes 300k. It's beyond stupid.
    It is absurd. £500,000 gets you a nice two bed flat in a nice part of London. Here, it gets you a 4 bed detached house with half an acre of garden.
    More and more will have to live outside London in order to buy, probably even rent properties. The trouble is the sheer cost of travelling from outside London into London.
    The next step will be for companies to move out of London to reduce costs.
    When that happens, is when politicians' alarm bells start ringing.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited August 2015
    AndyJS said:

    Things not getting better in Greece:

    "Chaos has broken out on the Greek island of Kos amid attempts to relocate hundreds of migrants to a football stadium for registration.
    Police officers used batons and sprayed fire extinguishers as they tried to impose order on the crowds.
    It comes after an officer on Kos was suspended for slapping one man while brandishing a knife.
    Authorities are struggling with a rapidly growing number of migrants who have arrived hoping for a better life."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33861290

    Kos had a population of 19000 in the last census, illegal immigrants there are now 7000, up from almost nil last year.
    If the rate of immigration continues the islanders will be a minority by the end of next year.

    In theory if the Turks gave those illegal immigrants weapons they could overpower the local authorities already with ease, an Islamic Caliphate on the Aegean is not out of the question seeing the tricks Turkey plays in Syria.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    If JC makes it to comrade-in-chief, Labour will be left with Marxists: Militant: Syriza: Socialists: sheep. Anyone outside these categories will have buggered off somewhere else
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited August 2015

    Which reminds me. For family rather than commercial reason, I am at present putting together a series of unguided walks around the City.

    Mr Llama, are you familiar with these?

    http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/firemaps/england/london/itov/mapsu145ubu22u1uf001r.html

    or to zoom in on just one of the sheets:

    http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/firemaps/england/london/itov/mapsu145ubu22u1uf019r.html

    BTW I'd be delighted to beta-test your guides.
  • 300,000 French residents in London? They must all be in the very wealthy parts of London.

    I dunno, Miss. South Kensington has been a French colony for as long as I can remember, as to where the rest are (if they exist) your guess is as good as mine. I'd look to the places where the trendy young things gather - Shoreditch, maybe, places like that.
    I've never been to Shoreditch - most people I know go to Camden.
    You've never been to Shoreditch? I suppose Whitechapel, Bethnal Green and Hoxton are beyond your experience too? What about the City or even Clerkenwell?

    One day, Miss, when my eyes are better I shall invite you to do a walk around what my Dad called real London. It may open your eyes more than a little.

    Which reminds me. For family rather than commercial reason, I am at present putting together a series of unguided walks around the City. Each should last about three hours including essential stops for refreshment and come with a series of maps and a written commentary. I could do with some beta testers, especially as I can no longer get up to do the walks myself. So if any of you people fancy a stroll round the City learning about some of its history and are prepared to send me an email afterwards telling me how it went please do drop me a note HurstLlama at Gmail dot com will find me.
    I've been to the City, (many times) and Bethnal Green, don't worry ;) Although Clerkenwell is beyond my experience. What would you define as 'real London'?

    R.E your walks, that reminds me of my now sadly deceased uncle, who loved travelling around London (his bus pass gave him free travel as he was over 65+).
    [swaggering] I've visited every National Rail, Underground, DLR and Tramlink station in London, man! All 661 of them! Mostly during season 2008-2009, plus the few that opened since then on new lines.
    That's quite cool.

    Although I have to ask, are you one of those guys really into trains? :grin:
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Whatever happened to boba Fett and his many aliases?
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Disraeli said:

    If 9 out of 10 of the poorest regions in Northern Europe are in the UK, why is this vital information being withheld from the economic migrants at Calais trying to get through the Eurotunnel?
    They are being lured here on a false prospectus.

    Because even poor regions of the UK are better than Sudan and Eritrea.
    The weather's better in Sudan and Eritrea though..
    No its not! Eritrea is scorchingly hot in the summer, as is most of Sudan.
    That's fine, so long as I can get out of the heat into air conditioning. That's how we exist here.
    My sympathies, I had five summers in Atlanta. They can be very sweaty without a/c. My school was not air conditioned and it was quite a fight for the desks by the only window!

    In Eritrea I suspect A/C is only found in govt offices!

    You must have been here a long time ago!

    I think I've mentioned this before, but in 2011 the PGA Championship was here. The hole I was marshalling had no shade. That was the year we had 95 straight days over 95. The hole chairman spent the entire day on a golf cart bringing us bottles of water. I had over a dozen, and didn't go to the bathroom once. When I got home my clothes were caked in salt.

    I wouldn't live anywhere else, except down the road in Augusta, where it's hotter, but I lived there for 12 years already.
    Just for a moment, I read your post thinking "the 2011 PGA Championship was held in Eritrea?" An early night, perhaps....
    I think it's there in 2018 ;)
    FIFA's not running this now?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Speedy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Things not getting better in Greece:

    "Chaos has broken out on the Greek island of Kos amid attempts to relocate hundreds of migrants to a football stadium for registration.
    Police officers used batons and sprayed fire extinguishers as they tried to impose order on the crowds.
    It comes after an officer on Kos was suspended for slapping one man while brandishing a knife.
    Authorities are struggling with a rapidly growing number of migrants who have arrived hoping for a better life."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33861290

    Kos had a population of 19000 in the last census, illegal immigrants there are now 7000, up from almost nil last year.
    If the rate of immigration continues the islanders will be a minority by the end of next year.

    In theory if the Turks gave those illegal immigrants weapons they could overpower the local authorities already with ease, an Islamic Caliphate on the Aegean is not out of the question seeing the tricks Turkey plays in Syria.
    Sad times, I worked for a summer in kardamena when I was 21... 1996!
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106


    One day, Miss, when my eyes are better I shall invite you to do a walk around what my Dad called real London. It may open your eyes more than a little.

    STREETS OF LONDON

    Have you seen the old man
    In the closed-down market
    Kicking up the paper,
    with his worn out shoes?
    In his eyes you see no pride
    Hand held loosely at his side
    Yesterday's paper telling yesterday's news

    So how can you tell me you're lonely,
    And say for you that the sun don't shine?
    Let me take you by the hand and lead you through the streets of London
    I'll show you something to make you change your mind

    Have you seen the old girl
    Who walks the streets of London
    Dirt in her hair and her clothes in rags?
    She's no time for talking,
    She just keeps right on walking
    Carrying her home in two carrier bags.

    Chorus

    In the all night cafe
    At a quarter past eleven,
    Same old man is sitting there on his own
    Looking at the world
    Over the rim of his tea-cup,
    Each tea last an hour
    Then he wanders home alone

    Chorus

    And have you seen the old man
    Outside the seaman's mission
    Memory fading with
    The medal ribbons that he wears.
    In our winter city,
    The rain cries a little pity
    For one more forgotten hero
    And a world that doesn't care

    Chorus
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    AndyJS said:

    Fenster said:

    I'd vote Corbyn if I were a Labour supporter.

    F**k it..

    I have to disagree. British politics would be more boring than ever since the Tories would be guaranteed a win in 2020 even if their vote share dips slightly compared to 2015.
    If Tories start to believe, to really believe, that a win is guaranteed, the probability seems quite high they will risk doing something that will mess it up and make it unguaranteed quite fast.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    300,000 French residents in London? They must all be in the very wealthy parts of London.

    I dunno, Miss. South Kensington has been a French colony for as long as I can remember, as to where the rest are (if they exist) your guess is as good as mine. I'd look to the places where the trendy young things gather - Shoreditch, maybe, places like that.
    I've never been to Shoreditch - most people I know go to Camden.
    You've never been to Shoreditch? I suppose Whitechapel, Bethnal Green and Hoxton are beyond your experience too? What about the City or even Clerkenwell?

    One day, Miss, when my eyes are better I shall invite you to do a walk around what my Dad called real London. It may open your eyes more than a little.

    Which reminds me. For family rather than commercial reason, I am at present putting together a series of unguided walks around the City. Each should last about three hours including essential stops for refreshment and come with a series of maps and a written commentary. I could do with some beta testers, especially as I can no longer get up to do the walks myself. So if any of you people fancy a stroll round the City learning about some of its history and are prepared to send me an email afterwards telling me how it went please do drop me a note HurstLlama at Gmail dot com will find me.
    I've been to the City, (many times) and Bethnal Green, don't worry ;) Although Clerkenwell is beyond my experience. What would you define as 'real London'?

    R.E your walks, that reminds me of my now sadly deceased uncle, who loved travelling around London (his bus pass gave him free travel as he was over 65+).
    Real London, Miss? Well, its not my definition it was my Dad's and I never managed to get him to draw the lines on the map, so it was pretty flexible. Sometimes his definition of the Northern Border of civilisation was the Clerkenwell Road at other times he would take me off into to Clerkenwell and hold forth proudly about its history and the places therein. Generally speaking I think you could say that what was built up in and around London in the early Tudor times was OK by him, but the City (where he was born) was the real thing.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Disraeli said:

    That's fine, so long as I can get out of the heat into air conditioning. That's how we exist here.
    My sympathies, I had five summers in Atlanta. They can be very sweaty without a/c. My school was not air conditioned and it was quite a fight for the desks by the only window!

    In Eritrea I suspect A/C is only found in govt

    You must have been here a long time ago!

    I went to Dunwoody High School until 1979. It was built for A/C with only one window in each room, but the school could not afford the electricity. Being off for 3 months in the summer chasing lightning bugs by the sub-division pool was quite tolerable though!
    I first started working here in the mid-80s, living in Augusta. At that time the metro area population was about 2 million - it is now well over 5 million. You wouldn't recognize the place today. I live in Gwinnett, which was the fastest growing county in the country for 2 decades.
    I think there were about 1.5 million in Atlanta when my family left in 79. It must have been a pretty insufferable place before widespread A/C.

    Why come back to England in 79 in the middle of the winter of discontent is an obvious question. My folks had 3 fairly bright kids and knew that they couldn't afford university fees in the USA, I suspect that they would have stayed if on current terms.

    If you think British state schools are bad, you should try american high school. Maths and English were well taught but the rest was pretty dire. I was well behind my peers when stating O levels in 79, though did pretty well in the end.
    We left the UK in Jan 1979. Thanks to the Hope scholarship university fees at public schools are reasonable now. My daughter managed to pay her way through college by serving at a restaurant and finished with no college loans at all. If you want to go to Duke or some such then that's different.

    Regarding schools, they vary greatly here. Gwinnett schools are very highly regarded, one reason the county has expanded so fast. My daughter left one of the best boarding schools in the north of England and found Gwinnett schools roughly equivalent. The big difference is that schools here don't teach life or coping skills.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    @foxinsoxuk, Wow that's quite interesting r.e you going to an American High School. Do you have an American accent, if I may ask? :grin:

    Nope. I lost it within six months back at an English Comprehensivd. I enjoyed living in the States, and go there every couple of years for conferences or holidays etc, but have never been back to Atlanta.

    All my family were glad to come back, though for 10 years or so my folks used to winter in Arizona. My brother often gets headhunted by US firms but much prefers to live in Cambridge.

  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106


    [swaggering] I've visited every National Rail, Underground, DLR and Tramlink station in London, man! All 661 of them! Mostly during season 2008-2009, plus the few that opened since then on new lines.

    Sunil = :star:
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Fenster said:

    I'd vote Corbyn if I were a Labour supporter.

    F**k it..

    I have to disagree. British politics would be more boring than ever since the Tories would be guaranteed a win in 2020 even if their vote share dips slightly compared to 2015.
    If Tories start to believe, to really believe, that a win is guaranteed, the probability seems quite high they will risk doing something that will mess it up and make it unguaranteed quite fast.
    Poll Tax, ERM ?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited August 2015

    @foxinsoxuk, Wow that's quite interesting r.e you going to an American High School. Do you have an American accent, if I may ask? :grin:

    Nope. I lost it within six months back at an English Comprehensivd. I enjoyed living in the States, and go there every couple of years for conferences or holidays etc, but have never been back to Atlanta.

    All my family were glad to come back, though for 10 years or so my folks used to winter in Arizona. My brother often gets headhunted by US firms but much prefers to live in Cambridge.

    You could be in my position - Brits think I'm American, and Americans think I'm English or Australian. The classic mid-Atlantic accent.

    There's not much doubt about my wife - it's hard to lose a Scottish accent.

    She tells me that for a long time there was one word which betrayed my Yorkshire origins - the way I pronounced 'year'.

    We did try going back to the UK but couldn't settle - we'd been gone too long, and eventually came home.
  • From the Times....

    Staff at Kids Company claim they were told to shred client files hours before the charity collapsed, as it emerged that taxpayers may never recover a last-minute £3 million grant.

    Workers in London and Bristol said they were instructed by managers to destroy documents and in some cases delete emails. The order allegedly came shortly before the youth work charity permanently closed its doors and made its 650 staff redundant last Wednesday.
  • Tim_B said:


    We left the UK in Jan 1979.

    Maggie-phobia?

    :)

  • 300,000 French residents in London? They must all be in the very wealthy parts of London.

    I dunno, Miss. South Kensington has been a French colony for as long as I can remember, as to where the rest are (if they exist) your guess is as good as mine. I'd look to the places where the trendy young things gather - Shoreditch, maybe, places like that.
    I've never been to Shoreditch - most people I know go to Camden.
    You've never been to Shoreditch? I suppose Whitechapel, Bethnal Green and Hoxton are beyond your experience too? What about the City or even Clerkenwell?

    One day, Miss, when my eyes are better I shall invite you to do a walk around what my Dad called real London. It may open your eyes more than a little.

    Which reminds me. For family rather than commercial reason, I am at present putting together a series of unguided walks around the City. Each should last about three hours including essential stops for refreshment and come with a series of maps and a written commentary. I could do with some beta testers, especially as I can no longer get up to do the walks myself. So if any of you people fancy a stroll round the City learning about some of its history and are prepared to send me an email afterwards telling me how it went please do drop me a note HurstLlama at Gmail dot com will find me.
    I've been to the City, (many times) and Bethnal Green, don't worry ;) Although Clerkenwell is beyond my experience. What would you define as 'real London'?

    R.E your walks, that reminds me of my now sadly deceased uncle, who loved travelling around London (his bus pass gave him free travel as he was over 65+).
    [swaggering] I've visited every National Rail, Underground, DLR and Tramlink station in London, man! All 661 of them! Mostly during season 2008-2009, plus the few that opened since then on new lines.
    That's quite cool.

    Although I have to ask, are you one of those guys really into trains? :grin:
    You could say that :)

    Since 2009, travelled on all National Rail lines within 50 miles of London, also done the West Midlands Day Ranger Map, and a few heritage railways as well :)

    My most recent scalp (yesterday!) was Grantham to Nottingham and then Long Eaton (on the way to Derby).
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited August 2015
    I remember reading the Economist after the 1992 election, it proudly predicted that Britain had become a one party state like Japan where the Tories would rule uninterrupted for decades.

    If the Economist starts to make similar predictions then I will be forced to consider that PM Corbyn might be on the way.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited August 2015

    Tim_B said:


    We left the UK in Jan 1979.

    Maggie-phobia?

    :)

    She wasn't in power yet. You couldn't buy petrol, and life was tough. Garbage in the streets. Enough was enough. The only way we got to say farewell to relatives was by renting cars (which came with a full tank of gas).

    It was well over a decade before we wanted to come back for a visit.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Disraeli said:

    That's fine, so long as I can get out of the heat into air conditioning. That's how we exist here.
    My sympathies, I had five summers in Atlanta. They can be very sweaty without a/c. My school was not air conditioned and it was quite a fight for the desks by the only window!

    In Eritrea I suspect A/C is only found in govt

    You must have been here a long time ago!

    I went to Dunwoody High School until 1979. It was built for A/C with only one window in each room, but the school could not afford the electricity. Being off for 3 months in the summer chasing lightning bugs by the sub-division pool was quite tolerable though!
    I first started working here in .
    I think there were about 1.5 million in Atlanta when my family left in 79. It must have been a pretty insufferable place before widespread A/C.

    Why come back to England

    If you think British state schools are bad, you should try american high school. Maths and English were well taught but the rest was pretty dire. I was well behind my peers when stating O levels in 79, though did pretty well in the end.
    We left the UK in Jan 1979. Thanks to the Hope scholarship university fees at public schools are reasonable now. My daughter managed to pay her way through college by serving at a restaurant and finished with no college loans at all. If you want to go to Duke or some such then that's different.

    Regarding schools, they vary greatly here. Gwinnett schools are very highly regarded, one reason the county has expanded so fast. My daughter left one of the best boarding schools in the north of England and found Gwinnett schools roughly equivalent. The big difference is that schools here don't teach life or coping skills.
    I was in DeKalb county, and at that time Dunwoody was one of the best state schools in the state. Still very patchy though. We were "taught" geography by playing Risk in one class!

    A lot depends on what you consider a good school to be. To me it is much more than academia (though that obviously matters), going to a Comprehensive in Georgia then in England made me who I am. Some of the things I learned they did not intend to teach, in particular attitudes to arbitrary authority and a healthy dispespect for uncritical received wisdoms.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547
    Speedy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Things not getting better in Greece:

    "Chaos has broken out on the Greek island of Kos amid attempts to relocate hundreds of migrants to a football stadium for registration.
    Police officers used batons and sprayed fire extinguishers as they tried to impose order on the crowds.
    It comes after an officer on Kos was suspended for slapping one man while brandishing a knife.
    Authorities are struggling with a rapidly growing number of migrants who have arrived hoping for a better life."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33861290

    Kos had a population of 19000 in the last census, illegal immigrants there are now 7000, up from almost nil last year.
    If the rate of immigration continues the islanders will be a minority by the end of next year.

    In theory if the Turks gave those illegal immigrants weapons they could overpower the local authorities already with ease, an Islamic Caliphate on the Aegean is not out of the question seeing the tricks Turkey plays in Syria.
    Speedy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Things not getting better in Greece:

    "Chaos has broken out on the Greek island of Kos amid attempts to relocate hundreds of migrants to a football stadium for registration.
    Police officers used batons and sprayed fire extinguishers as they tried to impose order on the crowds.
    It comes after an officer on Kos was suspended for slapping one man while brandishing a knife.
    Authorities are struggling with a rapidly growing number of migrants who have arrived hoping for a better life."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33861290

    Kos had a population of 19000 in the last census, illegal immigrants there are now 7000, up from almost nil last year.
    If the rate of immigration continues the islanders will be a minority by the end of next year.

    In theory if the Turks gave those illegal immigrants weapons they could overpower the local authorities already with ease, an Islamic Caliphate on the Aegean is not out of the question seeing the tricks Turkey plays in Syria.
    It sounds awful for the locals. All EU nations should co-operate to turn back the illegals from these islands.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    From the Times....

    Staff at Kids Company claim they were told to shred client files hours before the charity collapsed, as it emerged that taxpayers may never recover a last-minute £3 million grant.

    Workers in London and Bristol said they were instructed by managers to destroy documents and in some cases delete emails. The order allegedly came shortly before the youth work charity permanently closed its doors and made its 650 staff redundant last Wednesday.

    This is like Watergate, well the obstruction of justice after the burglary.
    Can they at least tell who gave the orders by name?
  • Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:


    We left the UK in Jan 1979.

    Maggie-phobia?

    :)

    She wasn't in power yet. You couldn't buy petrol, and life was tough. Garbage in the streets. Enough was enough. The only way we got to say farewell to relatives was by renting cars (which came with a full tank of gas).

    It was well over a decade before we wanted to come back for a visit.
    Maybe you left because you were worried about her coming to power? Or you could have waited till May that year!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
  • @foxinthesoxuk It's interesting to see the contrast between your experiences and @Tim_B's in regard to the US. I've been there on Holiday (Florida, New York were the states I've been to) and although it's a nice place to go to, I'm not too sure I'd want to live there. The lifestyle would be too different, for me. I that sense I can understand your brother preferring to live in Cambridge.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Disraeli said:

    That's fine, so long as I can get out of the heat into air conditioning. That's how we exist here.
    My sympathies, I had five summers in Atlanta. They can be very sweaty without a/c. My school was not air conditioned and it was quite a fight for the desks by the only window!

    In Eritrea I suspect A/C is only found in govt

    You must have been here a long time ago!

    I went to Dunwoody High School until 1979. It was built for A/C with only one window in each room, but the school could not afford the electricity. Being off for 3 months in the summer chasing lightning bugs by the sub-division pool was quite tolerable though!
    I first started working here in .
    I think there were about 1.5 million in Atlanta when my family left in 79. It must have been a pretty insufferable place before widespread A/C.

    Why come back to England

    If you think British state schools are bad, you should try american high school. Maths and English were well taught but the rest was pretty dire. I was well behind my peers when stating O levels in 79, though did pretty well in the end.
    We left the UK in Jan 1979. Thanks to the Hope scholarship university fees at public schools are reasonable now. My daughter managed to pay her way through college by serving at a restaurant and finished with no college loans at all. If you want to go to Duke or some such then that's different.

    Regarding schools, they vary greatly here. Gwinnett schools are very highly regarded, one reason the county has expanded so fast. My daughter left one of the best boarding schools in the north of England and found Gwinnett schools roughly equivalent. The big difference is that schools here don't teach life or coping skills.
    I was in DeKalb county, and at that time Dunwoody was one of the best state schools in the state. Still very patchy though. We were "taught" geography by playing Risk in one class!

    A lot depends on what you consider a good school to be. To me it is much more than academia (though that obviously matters), going to a Comprehensive in Georgia then in England made me who I am. Some of the things I learned they did not intend to teach, in particular attitudes to arbitrary authority and a healthy disrespect for uncritical received wisdoms.

    Well said.
  • isam said:

    Whatever happened to boba Fett and his many aliases?

    Still being digested....
  • @foxinthesoxuk It's interesting to see the contrast between your experiences and @Tim_B's in regard to the US. I've been there on Holiday (Florida, New York were the states I've been to) and although it's a nice place to go to, I'm not too sure I'd want to live there. The lifestyle would be too different, for me. I that sense I can understand your brother preferring to live in Cambridge.

    I was in Colorado for three months in 2011. Also went to conferences before that in New Mexico, Utah and also Alberta in Canada.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Things not getting better in Greece:

    "Chaos has broken out on the Greek island of Kos amid attempts to relocate hundreds of migrants to a football stadium for registration.
    Police officers used batons and sprayed fire extinguishers as they tried to impose order on the crowds.
    It comes after an officer on Kos was suspended for slapping one man while brandishing a knife.
    Authorities are struggling with a rapidly growing number of migrants who have arrived hoping for a better life."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33861290

    Kos had a population of 19000 in the last census, illegal immigrants there are now 7000, up from almost nil last year.
    If the rate of immigration continues the islanders will be a minority by the end of next year.

    In theory if the Turks gave those illegal immigrants weapons they could overpower the local authorities already with ease, an Islamic Caliphate on the Aegean is not out of the question seeing the tricks Turkey plays in Syria.
    Speedy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Things not getting better in Greece:

    "Chaos has broken out on the Greek island of Kos amid attempts to relocate hundreds of migrants to a football stadium for registration.
    Police officers used batons and sprayed fire extinguishers as they tried to impose order on the crowds.
    It comes after an officer on Kos was suspended for slapping one man while brandishing a knife.
    Authorities are struggling with a rapidly growing number of migrants who have arrived hoping for a better life."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33861290

    Kos had a population of 19000 in the last census, illegal immigrants there are now 7000, up from almost nil last year.
    If the rate of immigration continues the islanders will be a minority by the end of next year.

    In theory if the Turks gave those illegal immigrants weapons they could overpower the local authorities already with ease, an Islamic Caliphate on the Aegean is not out of the question seeing the tricks Turkey plays in Syria.
    It sounds awful for the locals. All EU nations should co-operate to turn back the illegals from these islands.
    How?
    The Syrians, the Iraqis, the Afghans, the Libyans and the Somalis have no country to return too. Pretty ironic that the West gave a hand to the disappearance of those states.
  • @Scrapheap

    After all the first round of Premier League fixtures have been completed, how am I doing in the fantasy football and how are you doing?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2015
    The same month Callaghan returned from a Caribbean holiday and reportedly said "Crisis, what crisis?" when told of the rubbish piling up on the streets. (In fact he didn't use that particular phrase).

    I heard someone say once that an interesting difference between Britain and America is that most Americans have worked as waiters or waitresses at some point whereas in the UK the majority of people would rather not do that particular job under any circumstances.

    Useless fact: Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick by Ian Dury was number one in the British charts in Jan '79.
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Disraeli said:

    That's fine, so long as I can get out of the heat into air conditioning. That's how we exist here.
    My sympathies, I had five summers in Atlanta.
    You must have been here a long time ago!

    I went to Dunwoody High School until 1979. It was built for A/C with only one window in each room, but the school could not afford the electricity. Being off for 3 months in the summer chasing lightning bugs by the sub-division pool was quite tolerable though!
    I first started working here in the mid-80s, living in Augusta. At that time the metro area population was about 2 million - it is now well over 5 million. You wouldn't recognize the place today. I live in Gwinnett, which was the fastest growing county in the country for 2 decades.
    I think there were about 1.5 million in Atlanta when my family left in 79. It must have been a pretty insufferable place before widespread A/C.

    Why come back to England in 79 in the middle of the winter of discontent is an obvious question. My folks had 3 fairly bright kids and knew that they couldn't afford university fees in the USA, I suspect that they would have stayed if on current terms.

    If you think British state schools are bad, you should try american high school. Maths and English were well taught but the rest was pretty dire. I was well behind my peers when stating O levels in 79, though did pretty well in the end.
    We left the UK in Jan 1979. Thanks to the Hope scholarship university fees at public schools are reasonable now. My daughter managed to pay her way through college by serving at a restaurant and finished with no college loans at all. If you want to go to Duke or some such then that's different.
  • You could say that :)

    Since 2009, travelled on all National Rail lines within 50 miles of London, also done the West Midlands Day Ranger Map, and a few heritage railways as well :)

    My most recent scalp (yesterday!) was Grantham to Nottingham and then Long Eaton (on the way to Derby).

    You should contact Michael Portillo, I think he'd love to have you on his train journey shows!
  • Speedy said:

    From the Times....

    Staff at Kids Company claim they were told to shred client files hours before the charity collapsed, as it emerged that taxpayers may never recover a last-minute £3 million grant.

    Workers in London and Bristol said they were instructed by managers to destroy documents and in some cases delete emails. The order allegedly came shortly before the youth work charity permanently closed its doors and made its 650 staff redundant last Wednesday.

    This is like Watergate, well the obstruction of justice after the burglary.
    Can they at least tell who gave the orders by name?
    No names given
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Which reminds me. For family rather than commercial reason, I am at present putting together a series of unguided walks around the City.

    Mr Llama, are you familiar with these?

    http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/firemaps/england/london/itov/mapsu145ubu22u1uf001r.html

    or to zoom in on just one of the sheets:

    http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/firemaps/england/london/itov/mapsu145ubu22u1uf019r.html

    BTW I'd be delighted to beta-test your guides.
    Mr. N., I hadn't seen the Goad Maps before. 1886 is normally a bit late for me, almost modern, but the detail in those samples is fascinating. Thank you for bringing them to my attention.

    Thanks to for volunteering to test a walk for me. Once the first one is finished I'll fire it off to you.
  • Real London, Miss? Well, its not my definition it was my Dad's and I never managed to get him to draw the lines on the map, so it was pretty flexible. Sometimes his definition of the Northern Border of civilisation was the Clerkenwell Road at other times he would take me off into to Clerkenwell and hold forth proudly about its history and the places therein. Generally speaking I think you could say that what was built up in and around London in the early Tudor times was OK by him, but the City (where he was born) was the real thing.

    Ah, okay. I think I may have been to real London, then :)
  • @foxinthesoxuk It's interesting to see the contrast between your experiences and @Tim_B's in regard to the US. I've been there on Holiday (Florida, New York were the states I've been to) and although it's a nice place to go to, I'm not too sure I'd want to live there. The lifestyle would be too different, for me. I that sense I can understand your brother preferring to live in Cambridge.

    I was in Colorado for three months in 2011. Also went to conferences before that in New Mexico, Utah and also Alberta in Canada.
    What conferences did you go to?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    @foxinthesoxuk It's interesting to see the contrast between your experiences and @Tim_B's in regard to the US. I've been there on Holiday (Florida, New York were the states I've been to) and although it's a nice place to go to, I'm not too sure I'd want to live there. The lifestyle would be too different, for me. I that sense I can understand your brother preferring to live in Cambridge.

    My introduction to the US was as a 15 year old in the mid 1960s, staying with the family of a friend of my father's for an entire summer. We went camping to New England and to Virginia, went up the Empire State Building and I loved it all. Compared to the winter of discontent it was great. Then you go native and there's no going back.

    In fact we've never lost touch and I'm going up to stay with the family for a few days in October.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    From the Times....

    Staff at Kids Company claim they were told to shred client files hours before the charity collapsed, as it emerged that taxpayers may never recover a last-minute £3 million grant.

    Workers in London and Bristol said they were instructed by managers to destroy documents and in some cases delete emails. The order allegedly came shortly before the youth work charity permanently closed its doors and made its 650 staff redundant last Wednesday.

    This is like Watergate, well the obstruction of justice after the burglary.
    Can they at least tell who gave the orders by name?
    No names given
    Can they at least describe the suspect as looking like Jo Brand in silly clothes ?
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