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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Harry Hayfield’s Local By-Election Preview : August 6th 201

SystemSystem Posts: 12,219
edited August 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Harry Hayfield’s Local By-Election Preview : August 6th 2015

Anderston and City (SNP defence), Calton (SNP defence), Craigton (SNP defence) and Langside (Green defence) on City of Glasgow
Result of council at last election (2012): Labour 44, Scottish National Party 27, Green 5, Liberal Democrats 1, Conservatives 1, Glasgow First 1 (Labour majority of 9)

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited August 2015
    @EPG FPT

    Good history discussion today. I think the first mass migrations were of Africans involuntarily across the Atlantic.

    Where does the word Exodus come from?

    (that was definitely before the Africans, if not first. Because I am first!)
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Charles said:

    @EPG FPT

    Good history discussion today. I think the first mass migrations were of Africans involuntarily across the Atlantic.

    Where does the word Exodus come from?

    (that was definitely before the Africans, if not first. Because I am first!)

    The word itself is Greek, its usage in English from the second book of the Bible and the departrure of the slaves from Egypt led by Moses contained within it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    @EPG FPT

    Good history discussion today. I think the first mass migrations were of Africans involuntarily across the Atlantic.

    Where does the word Exodus come from?

    (that was definitely before the Africans, if not first. Because I am first!)

    The word itself is Greek, its usage in English from the second book of the Bible and the departrure of the slaves from Egypt led by Moses contained within it.
    Rhetorical question, dear boy.

    I was gently pointing out the the first mass migration was well before the (involuntary) migration of Africans across the Atlantic.

    But never mind.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    Charles said:

    @EPG FPT

    Good history discussion today. I think the first mass migrations were of Africans involuntarily across the Atlantic.

    Where does the word Exodus come from?

    (that was definitely before the Africans, if not first. Because I am first!)

    Ah! Good one. It's very intriguing - perhaps not Egypt really but certainly Babylon.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,336
    @Freggles: FPT you said "Not to pick a fight, but Jesus clearly thought the woman caught in adultery had sinned, if that's the bit you're referring to."

    True - but she was not the prostitute. I was thinking more of his association with Mary Magdalene, the fact that he said to the people trying to stone the adulteress to look at the beams in their own eyes and, finally (since this is not Theology.com), of the injunction "To do unto others what you would want done to you".

    If we treat gay people (or any other picked on group) as outcasts and do them harm, we are harming ourselves, we are being unkind to ourselves, to our sense of what it ought to mean to be human (and divine, if you believe in that).

    I am not a theologian and probably not even a good Catholic. "Love one another" is a pretty good injunction for life. It was not followed by "except him, her and that lot over there".
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    @EPG FPT

    Good history discussion today. I think the first mass migrations were of Africans involuntarily across the Atlantic.

    Where does the word Exodus come from?

    (that was definitely before the Africans, if not first. Because I am first!)

    The word itself is Greek, its usage in English from the second book of the Bible and the departrure of the slaves from Egypt led by Moses contained within it.
    Rhetorical question, dear boy.

    I was gently pointing out the the first mass migration was well before the (involuntary) migration of Africans across the Atlantic.

    But never mind.
    I did wonder, since I thought you would have known that.

    But I couldn't be bothered to check the last thread to et the context.
  • rullkorullko Posts: 161
    edited August 2015
    I voted today in Calton. The only activists at the polling station were from the SNP and the Greens, and they said they hadn't seen anyone from the other parties all day. I've had leaflets only from the SNP and an independent.

    This is in possibly the strongest Labour ward in Glasgow - they were 25 points ahead in 2012, and that was their worst result ever.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    'I accidentally glued myself to a crocodile’: Scientists reveal most embarrassing #fieldworkfail mistakes on Twitter

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3187137/Scientists-reveal-embarrassing-mistakes-fieldworkfail.html#ixzz3i4DrS9eI

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547
    It may have happened earlier, but the first Empire I can think of to practise mass deportation were the Assyrians. Uproot a people from their homeland, then put them down in someone else's homeland. That makes them fight the other people, to the advantage of their conqueror.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547
    Cyclefree said:

    @Freggles: FPT you said "Not to pick a fight, but Jesus clearly thought the woman caught in adultery had sinned, if that's the bit you're referring to."

    True - but she was not the prostitute. I was thinking more of his association with Mary Magdalene, the fact that he said to the people trying to stone the adulteress to look at the beams in their own eyes and, finally (since this is not Theology.com), of the injunction "To do unto others what you would want done to you".

    If we treat gay people (or any other picked on group) as outcasts and do them harm, we are harming ourselves, we are being unkind to ourselves, to our sense of what it ought to mean to be human (and divine, if you believe in that).

    I am not a theologian and probably not even a good Catholic. "Love one another" is a pretty good injunction for life. It was not followed by "except him, her and that lot over there".

    Jesus could be pretty harsh. If merely looking at another woman lustfully is committing adultery in one's heart, I think I'm on thin ice.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Tonight we have finally a full slate of interesting local council byelections.

    Pity they aren't occurring after a potential Corbyn victory, one of the electoral hopes for a Corbyn led Labour would be scotland.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    @Freggles: FPT you said "Not to pick a fight, but Jesus clearly thought the woman caught in adultery had sinned, if that's the bit you're referring to."

    True - but she was not the prostitute. I was thinking more of his association with Mary Magdalene, the fact that he said to the people trying to stone the adulteress to look at the beams in their own eyes and, finally (since this is not Theology.com), of the injunction "To do unto others what you would want done to you".

    If we treat gay people (or any other picked on group) as outcasts and do them harm, we are harming ourselves, we are being unkind to ourselves, to our sense of what it ought to mean to be human (and divine, if you believe in that).

    I am not a theologian and probably not even a good Catholic. "Love one another" is a pretty good injunction for life. It was not followed by "except him, her and that lot over there".

    Jesus could be pretty harsh. If merely looking at another woman lustfully is committing adultery in one's heart, I think I'm on thin ice.

    Jesus was making a point that nobody is perfect, against the religious leaders at the time who thought how wonderful they were because they followed all the "rules".

    Also that no one can save themselves through trying to be a good person - as nobody is - only by asking for forgiveness from God.

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    calum said:
    An interesting view from Blundellsands... He's a neighbour.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    @Freggles: FPT you said "Not to pick a fight, but Jesus clearly thought the woman caught in adultery had sinned, if that's the bit you're referring to."

    True - but she was not the prostitute. I was thinking more of his association with Mary Magdalene, the fact that he said to the people trying to stone the adulteress to look at the beams in their own eyes and, finally (since this is not Theology.com), of the injunction "To do unto others what you would want done to you".

    If we treat gay people (or any other picked on group) as outcasts and do them harm, we are harming ourselves, we are being unkind to ourselves, to our sense of what it ought to mean to be human (and divine, if you believe in that).

    I am not a theologian and probably not even a good Catholic. "Love one another" is a pretty good injunction for life. It was not followed by "except him, her and that lot over there".

    Jesus could be pretty harsh. If merely looking at another woman lustfully is committing adultery in one's heart, I think I'm on thin ice.
    @theology.com

    I think that very consistent with Jesus's other teachings as the emphasis is very much on the internal cleanliness rather than externalities. Jesus was even harsher (with righteous anger) on the hypocrits and pharisees obsessed with external obedience but with no love in their hearts. Indeed the people cited by Jesus as examples to follow include a Samaritan (a sect believed to be heritics by his audience) and a Roman Officer (of an oppressing army). Neither of these obeyed the externals of Jewish or Christian teachings but both listened to the internal voice.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    Given that they are STV (technically AV as 1 seat) - what time are we expecting results?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    @Freggles: FPT you said "Not to pick a fight, but Jesus clearly thought the woman caught in adultery had sinned, if that's the bit you're referring to."

    True - but she was not the prostitute. I was thinking more of his association with Mary Magdalene, the fact that he said to the people trying to stone the adulteress to look at the beams in their own eyes and, finally (since this is not Theology.com), of the injunction "To do unto others what you would want done to you".

    If we treat gay people (or any other picked on group) as outcasts and do them harm, we are harming ourselves, we are being unkind to ourselves, to our sense of what it ought to mean to be human (and divine, if you believe in that).

    I am not a theologian and probably not even a good Catholic. "Love one another" is a pretty good injunction for life. It was not followed by "except him, her and that lot over there".

    Jesus could be pretty harsh. If merely looking at another woman lustfully is committing adultery in one's heart, I think I'm on thin ice.

    Jesus was making a point that nobody is perfect, against the religious leaders at the time who thought how wonderful they were because they followed all the "rules".

    Also that no one can save themselves through trying to be a good person - as nobody is - only by asking for forgiveness from God.

    Not sure the Catholics would agree with that view! Salvation by redemption is a very Protestant concept
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    FPT @ SeanF Re the 1 million US casualties and the decision to drop the bomb, I thought that that 1 million was, based upon Okinawa and what it took to take Sugar Loaf Hill in particular, the estimate of US casualties made at the time for taking the rest of Japan.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Is there any archeological evidence that the Exodus happened?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited August 2015
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited August 2015
    Former Obama fund raiser Don Peebles currently on Fox News saying he likes Jeb Bush.

    He is saying not nice things about de Blasio and Hillary too.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,966
    No gloating...but I do LOVE "Pomicide".....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046

    Please no gloating

    Did something of note happen with the cricket today? :D
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RobD said:

    Please no gloating

    Did something of note happen with the cricket today? :D
    Whatever it was it didn't take long, so how of note can it be? :D
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    Tim_B said:

    RobD said:

    Please no gloating

    Did something of note happen with the cricket today? :D
    Whatever it was it didn't take long, so how of note can it be? :D
    A phrase I hear often.... titter
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    I sense rising disillusionment with not only Westminster but the Establishment in general - the Kids Company, paedophile rings, H of L in general, FTSE Directors feeding each others packages by sitting on remuneration committees, Osbo's City mates and RBS sell off etc.

    An obvious line of attack for Corbyn is to present himself as someone who is prepared to fearlessly clean out the Establishment's stables, barrels of rotten apples and the privileged Tim (& Timesses) Nice but Dims who sit on charity boards and quangos. Corbyn could ruthlessly name and shame under Parliamentary privilage and get the MSM off their asses and chasing Establishment misbehaving dragons as opposed to imaginary SNP trolls.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Fox News has an app for the debates tonight - in real time you can give each candidate a thumbs up or thumbs down. If you think they haven't answered a question you can hit 'dodge'.

    Should be fun.

    First debate in 20 minutes.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited August 2015
    I've just backed Stuart Broad at 5/1 on Betfair to make the top 3 with SPOTY
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited August 2015
    Tim_B said:

    Fox News has an app for the debates tonight - in real time you can give each candidate a thumbs up or thumbs down. If you think they haven't answered a question you can hit 'dodge'.

    Should be fun.

    First debate in 20 minutes.

    Is there a (legal) way to watch in the UK? Does the app work?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,966
    Just reading the previous thread - why don't we get politicians as wonderfully articulate and grounded as Cyclefree?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,157
    edited August 2015

    Please no gloating

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/629387697602203648
    "Kylie Minogue! Steve Irwin! Holly Valance! Crocodile Dundee! Natalie Imbruglia! Ian Thorpe! Mrs. Mangel! We have beaten them all! We have beaten them all! Dame Edna, can you hear me? Dame Edna, your boys took a hell of a beating! Your boys took a hell of a beating!"
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Fox News has an app for the debates tonight - in real time you can give each candidate a thumbs up or thumbs down. If you think they haven't answered a question you can hit 'dodge'.

    Should be fun.

    First debate in 20 minutes.

    Is there a (legal) way to watch in the UK? Does the app work?
    I have no idea about watching in the UK. Don't you get Fox News there?

    The app looks fine. It goes live at 9 EDT
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Just reading the previous thread - why don't we get politicians as wonderfully articulate and grounded as Cyclefree?

    Cos we don't vote for them, we write about them on blogs and we buy the papers that make their lives miserable

    There are lots of people of my age, who in my grandfather's and father's generation could and did go into public service from a sense of duty. But when the cost to their families became too high, the withdrew to serve the public from outside the sphere of politics.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Please no gloating

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/629387697602203648
    "Kylie Minogue! Steve Irwin! Holly Valance! Crocodile Dundee! Natalie Imbruglia! Ian Thorpe! Mrs. Mangel! We have beaten them all! We have beaten them all! Dame Edna, can you hear me? Dame Edna, your boys took a hell of a beating! Your boys took a hell of a beating!"
    Point of order: Natalie Imbruglia is British. Remarkably fine looking too.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Charles said:

    Please no gloating

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/629387697602203648
    "Kylie Minogue! Steve Irwin! Holly Valance! Crocodile Dundee! Natalie Imbruglia! Ian Thorpe! Mrs. Mangel! We have beaten them all! We have beaten them all! Dame Edna, can you hear me? Dame Edna, your boys took a hell of a beating! Your boys took a hell of a beating!"
    Point of order: Natalie Imbruglia is British. Remarkably fine looking too.
    Born in Australia
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,157
    edited August 2015
    Sean_F said:

    It may have happened earlier, but the first Empire I can think of to practise mass deportation were the Assyrians. Uproot a people from their homeland, then put them down in someone else's homeland. That makes them fight the other people, to the advantage of their conqueror.

    Wasn't that the Babylonians? And ironically, the ancestor of today's Iranians, Cyrus the Great, let the said deportees go back to their homeland.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great_in_the_Bible
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    calum said:
    Is that the Chinese curse "interesting" or the Laugh in "interesting"?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 45s46 seconds ago
    I've just backed Stuart Broad at 5/1 on Betfair to make the top 3 in the SPOTY election. He's 21/1 to win it.

    I've got two problems with this.

    First, is Broad the number 1 cricketing choice? Root and Anderson must surely have good claims too.

    Secondly, is the cricketing grouping strong enough? I know that for example the cycling "gotv" is very good. But cricketers don't win this sort of thing do they? Only Flintoff a decade ago since the turn of the millennium.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Tim_B said:

    Fox News has an app for the debates tonight - in real time you can give each candidate a thumbs up or thumbs down. If you think they haven't answered a question you can hit 'dodge'.

    Should be fun.

    First debate in 20 minutes.

    Is there a (legal) way to watch in the UK? Does the app work?
    It's going to be live on Sky too
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited August 2015

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 45s46 seconds ago
    I've just backed Stuart Broad at 5/1 on Betfair to make the top 3 in the SPOTY election. He's 21/1 to win it.

    I've got two problems with this.

    First, is Broad the number 1 cricketing choice? Root and Anderson must surely have good claims too.

    Secondly, is the cricketing grouping strong enough? I know that for example the cycling "gotv" is very good. But cricketers don't win this sort of thing do they? Only Flintoff a decade ago since the turn of the millennium.

    Mike backed "top 3" not winner.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Tim_B said:

    Charles said:

    Please no gloating

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/629387697602203648
    "Kylie Minogue! Steve Irwin! Holly Valance! Crocodile Dundee! Natalie Imbruglia! Ian Thorpe! Mrs. Mangel! We have beaten them all! We have beaten them all! Dame Edna, can you hear me? Dame Edna, your boys took a hell of a beating! Your boys took a hell of a beating!"
    Point of order: Natalie Imbruglia is British. Remarkably fine looking too.
    Born in Australia
    I'm all in favour of free immigration of women like her ;)
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Why ever not! I think it's safe (famous last words but 1/25 speaks volumes)
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 45s46 seconds ago
    I've just backed Stuart Broad at 5/1 on Betfair to make the top 3 in the SPOTY election. He's 21/1 to win it.

    I've got two problems with this.

    First, is Broad the number 1 cricketing choice? Root and Anderson must surely have good claims too.

    Secondly, is the cricketing grouping strong enough? I know that for example the cycling "gotv" is very good. But cricketers don't win this sort of thing do they? Only Flintoff a decade ago since the turn of the millennium.

    Mike backed "top 3" not winner.
    I realise - it was only in 2004 and 2005 that a cricketer made the top 3. I'm try to get a full list to see where previous Ashes victory winners have come.
  • On Natalie Imbruglia: She was born in Australia, grew up in Australia, and last time I heard her speak had an Australian accent. Sure, her mother has British ancestry, but that's true for many Australians - doesn't make them British. On her citizenship: Murdoch is a naturalised American citizen, but I doubt many see him as an American.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    @Freggles: FPT you said "Not to pick a fight, but Jesus clearly thought the woman caught in adultery had sinned, if that's the bit you're referring to."

    True - but she was not the prostitute. I was thinking more of his association with Mary Magdalene, the fact that he said to the people trying to stone the adulteress to look at the beams in their own eyes and, finally (since this is not Theology.com), of the injunction "To do unto others what you would want done to you".

    If we treat gay people (or any other picked on group) as outcasts and do them harm, we are harming ourselves, we are being unkind to ourselves, to our sense of what it ought to mean to be human (and divine, if you believe in that).

    I am not a theologian and probably not even a good Catholic. "Love one another" is a pretty good injunction for life. It was not followed by "except him, her and that lot over there".

    Jesus could be pretty harsh. If merely looking at another woman lustfully is committing adultery in one's heart, I think I'm on thin ice.

    Jesus was making a point that nobody is perfect, against the religious leaders at the time who thought how wonderful they were because they followed all the "rules".

    Also that no one can save themselves through trying to be a good person - as nobody is - only by asking for forgiveness from God.

    I think that's true. But, I think what I struggle with is the fact that Jesus' teachings make no concession *at all* to human nature. "Be you perfect, as your Father in Heaven is perfect."

    How could anyone love their enemies, for example? And, why should they?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited August 2015
    OK - the Papa John's pizza was just delivered and I have plenty of beer.

    I've completed debate prep and am ready for the early debate....


    Go Carly!!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993
    Evening all :)

    While England and Australia perform like a pair of rutting stags somewhere in the Midlands, we have the same in London with Boris Johnson and London Underground versus ASLEF, RMT, TSSA and the other one.

    Strike Day 2 was marginally less entertaining than its predecessor and through the scrumdowns for every bus and the crowded pavements, both sides clog the media with their own brand of misinformation and disinformation and frankly it's impossible to believe either.

    I always thought Boris would provoke a final showdown with the aim of breaking the RMT but the late Bob Crow was too clever for that and indeed it was Boris who caved in 2012 on the payment of Olympic bonuses.

    As a regular Tube user, I'd be appalled at the prospect of driverless trains. Apart from the obvious, the driver is the only communication we have with the outside world and there are many people (including myself) who get unnerved when the train stops in a tunnel between stations. There's also the crowding and ensuring the doors are clear and the sharp customer-focussed reprimand of the driver is invaluable. To be fair,even the driverless DLR trains have a member of staff on board so it's not as automated as some claim.

    Boris has tried to go over the heads of the Union leadership by urging them to put the new offer to the members (this offer magically appeared just as the strikes heaved into view) which is fair enough but it's not about money (apparently) according to the unions.

    Given the Oyster system, TFL is awash with cash from overpayment of fares and recent fare increases well above inflation and while the trains are better, the signalling infrastructure fails far too often at key points like Edgware Road. Yet the Tube needs to improve - the platform is four deep at East Ham at 7am every morning carrying the migrant labourers to the building projects in London and I literally cannot remember the last time I got a seat in the morning.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    On Natalie Imbruglia: She was born in Australia, grew up in Australia, and last time I heard her speak had an Australian accent. Sure, her mother has British ancestry, but that's true for many Australians - doesn't make them British. On her citizenship: Murdoch is a naturalised American citizen, but I doubt many see him as an American.

    She's taken the citizenship test and has a British passport.

    That's good enough for me.
  • Charles said:

    On Natalie Imbruglia: She was born in Australia, grew up in Australia, and last time I heard her speak had an Australian accent. Sure, her mother has British ancestry, but that's true for many Australians - doesn't make them British. On her citizenship: Murdoch is a naturalised American citizen, but I doubt many see him as an American.

    She's taken the citizenship test and has a British passport.

    That's good enough for me.
    Is that because you fancy her? ;)
  • stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    While England and Australia perform like a pair of rutting stags somewhere in the Midlands, we have the same in London with Boris Johnson and London Underground versus ASLEF, RMT, TSSA and the other one.

    Strike Day 2 was marginally less entertaining than its predecessor and through the scrumdowns for every bus and the crowded pavements, both sides clog the media with their own brand of misinformation and disinformation and frankly it's impossible to believe either.

    I always thought Boris would provoke a final showdown with the aim of breaking the RMT but the late Bob Crow was too clever for that and indeed it was Boris who caved in 2012 on the payment of Olympic bonuses.

    As a regular Tube user, I'd be appalled at the prospect of driverless trains. Apart from the obvious, the driver is the only communication we have with the outside world and there are many people (including myself) who get unnerved when the train stops in a tunnel between stations. There's also the crowding and ensuring the doors are clear and the sharp customer-focussed reprimand of the driver is invaluable. To be fair,even the driverless DLR trains have a member of staff on board so it's not as automated as some claim.

    Boris has tried to go over the heads of the Union leadership by urging them to put the new offer to the members (this offer magically appeared just as the strikes heaved into view) which is fair enough but it's not about money (apparently) according to the unions.

    Given the Oyster system, TFL is awash with cash from overpayment of fares and recent fare increases well above inflation and while the trains are better, the signalling infrastructure fails far too often at key points like Edgware Road. Yet the Tube needs to improve - the platform is four deep at East Ham at 7am every morning carrying the migrant labourers to the building projects in London and I literally cannot remember the last time I got a seat in the morning.

    Hopefully things will improve when Crossrail opens in three years' time.

    The DLR trains can drive themselves, though I've seen the Passenger Service Agent (PSA) take the controls at terminal stations from time to time.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    It's not looking good:

    2014 - none on shortlist of 10
    2013 - 10th (Ian Bell)
    2012 - none on shortlist of 12
    2011 - Strauss (6th) Cook (7th)
    2010 - Swann (9th)
    2009 - Strauss (8th)
    2008 - none on shortlist of 10
    2007 - none on shortlist of 10
  • Charles said:

    On Natalie Imbruglia: She was born in Australia, grew up in Australia, and last time I heard her speak had an Australian accent. Sure, her mother has British ancestry, but that's true for many Australians - doesn't make them British. On her citizenship: Murdoch is a naturalised American citizen, but I doubt many see him as an American.

    She's taken the citizenship test and has a British passport.

    That's good enough for me.
    [Swaggering] I have a British passport too, man! But despite being born in India, been living in the UK since I was four months old :)
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Jeremy Corbyn blasted for refusing to condemn IRA terror attacks FIVE TIMES when asked repeatedly on live radio in Northern Ireland

    Repeatedly asked if he wanted to criticise IRA's atrocities during Troubles
    But Jeremy Corbyn sidestepped chance to condemn bombings five times
    He caused outrage after inviting Sinn Feinn to London after Brighton attack
    Labour leadership frontrunner come under fire from relatives of victims


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3187245/Jeremy-Corbyn-blasted-refusing-condemn-IRA-terror-attacks-FIVE-TIMES-asked-repeatedly-live-radio-Northern-Ireland.html#ixzz3i4TcdgSy
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    edited August 2015

    Charles said:

    On Natalie Imbruglia: She was born in Australia, grew up in Australia, and last time I heard her speak had an Australian accent. Sure, her mother has British ancestry, but that's true for many Australians - doesn't make them British. On her citizenship: Murdoch is a naturalised American citizen, but I doubt many see him as an American.

    She's taken the citizenship test and has a British passport.

    That's good enough for me.
    [Swaggering] I have a British passport too, man! But despite being born in India, been living in the UK since I was four months old :)
    That is not good enough for me, not by a long shot. But her mother having British Ancestry certainly is.

    edit: I just noticed this looked like i was responding to you, I wasnt, i was responding about the Natalie woman...
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited August 2015
    To resolve these issues, Zacharias developed several plans for secret negotiations with Japanese representatives; all were rejected by the U.S. government. Instead, a series of psychological warfare radio broadcasts by Zacharias was later approved. In the July 21, 1945 broadcast, Zacharias made an offer to Japan that stirred controversy in the U.S. - a surrender based on the Atlantic Charter.

    On July 25th, the U.S. intercepted a secret transmission from Japan's Foreign Minister (Togo) to their Ambassador to Moscow (Sato), who was trying to set up a meeting with the Soviets to negotiate an end to the war. The message referred to the Zacharias broadcast and stated:

    "...special attention should be paid to the fact that at this time the United States referred to the Atlantic Charter. As for Japan, it is impossible to accept unconditional surrender under any circumstances, but we should like to communicate to the other party through appropriate channels that we have no objection to a peace based on the Atlantic Charter."
    U.S. Dept. of State, Foreign Relations of the United States: Conference of Berlin (Potsdam) 1945, vol. 2, pg. 1260-1261.


    But on July 26th, the U.S., Great Britain, and China publicly issued the Potsdam Proclamation demanding "unconditional surrender" from Japan. Zacharias later commented on the favorable Japanese response to his broadcast:

    "The Potsdam Declaration, in short, wrecked everything we had been working for to prevent further bloodshed...

    "Just when the Japanese were ready to capitulate, we went ahead and introduced to the world the most devastating weapon it had ever seen and, in effect, gave the go-ahead to Russia to swarm over Eastern Asia...
    "I submit that it was the wrong decision. It was wrong on strategic grounds. And it was wrong on humanitarian grounds."

    - Ellis Zacharias, How We Bungled the Japanese Surrender, Look, 6/6/50, pg. 19-21.

  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    O/T- looking at the strength of feeling that still exists, it seems to me that at some point the USA will seek to draw some kind of line in the future by issuing an apology over Hiroshima and Nagasaki. To horrifically and indiscriminately murder civilians in this way, is something you don't want on your long term legacy as a country.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Rick Santorum is asked "Has your moment passed?".

    As an attorney he represented the WWE on federal steroid regulations. Who knew?
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    FPT @HurstLama

    I think I will take the word of the calibre of men like Eisenhower, MacArthur, Leahy and Hoover over just about any armchair generals or theorists you can muster... And there were plenty of others on the inside who knew the Japanese had already agreed to surrender in principle.

    Rear-Admiral Ellis Zacharias, (later Deputy Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence)
    Based on a series of intelligence reports received in late 1944, Zacharias, long a student of Japan's people and culture, believed the Japan would soon be ripe for surrender if the proper approach were taken. For him, that approach was not as simple as bludgeoning Japanese cities:

    "...while Allied leaders were immediately inclined to support all innovations however bold and novel in the strictly military sphere, they frowned upon similar innovations in the sphere of diplomatic and psychological warfare."
    - Ellis Zacharias, The A-Bomb Was Not Needed, United Nations World, Aug. 1949, pg. 29.

    Zacharias saw that there were diplomatic and religious (the status of the Emperor) elements that blocked the doves in Japan's government from making their move:

    "What prevented them from suing for peace or from bringing their plot into the open was their uncertainty on two scores. First, they wanted to know the meaning of unconditional surrender and the fate we planned for Japan after defeat. Second, they tried to obtain from us assurances that the Emperor could remain on the throne after surrender."
    - Ellis Zacharias, Eighteen Words That Bagged Japan, Saturday Evening Post, 11/17/45, pg. 17.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Plato said:

    Jeremy Corbyn blasted for refusing to condemn IRA terror attacks FIVE TIMES when asked repeatedly on live radio in Northern Ireland

    Repeatedly asked if he wanted to criticise IRA's atrocities during Troubles
    But Jeremy Corbyn sidestepped chance to condemn bombings five times
    He caused outrage after inviting Sinn Feinn to London after Brighton attack
    Labour leadership frontrunner come under fire from relatives of victims


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3187245/Jeremy-Corbyn-blasted-refusing-condemn-IRA-terror-attacks-FIVE-TIMES-asked-repeatedly-live-radio-Northern-Ireland.html#ixzz3i4TcdgSy

    He's like a man who can't say sorry. Or a man who can't admit they're an alcoholic.

    "Everyone does it"
    "It was his fault"
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    calum said:

    I sense rising disillusionment with not only Westminster but the Establishment in general - the Kids Company, paedophile rings, H of L in general, FTSE Directors feeding each others packages by sitting on remuneration committees, Osbo's City mates and RBS sell off etc.

    An obvious line of attack for Corbyn is to present himself as someone who is prepared to fearlessly clean out the Establishment's stables, barrels of rotten apples and the privileged Tim (& Timesses) Nice but Dims who sit on charity boards and quangos. Corbyn could ruthlessly name and shame under Parliamentary privilage and get the MSM off their asses and chasing Establishment misbehaving dragons as opposed to imaginary SNP trolls.

    But the SNP is Scotland's establishment now.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834

    Please no gloating

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/629387697602203648
    "Kylie Minogue! Steve Irwin! Holly Valance! Crocodile Dundee! Natalie Imbruglia! Ian Thorpe! Mrs. Mangel! We have beaten them all! We have beaten them all! Dame Edna, can you hear me? Dame Edna, your boys took a hell of a beating! Your boys took a hell of a beating!"
    Now now. We're only one day in. The time to gloat will be if Root's still not out at stumps tomorrow.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417

    Please no gloating

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/629387697602203648
    "Kylie Minogue! Steve Irwin! Holly Valance! Crocodile Dundee! Natalie Imbruglia! Ian Thorpe! Mrs. Mangel! We have beaten them all! We have beaten them all! Dame Edna, can you hear me? Dame Edna, your boys took a hell of a beating! Your boys took a hell of a beating!"
    Now now. We're only one day in. The time to gloat will be if Root's still not out at stumps tomorrow.
    Try and get 1000 runs by lunch day 3 ? :D
  • Plato said:

    Jeremy Corbyn blasted for refusing to condemn IRA terror attacks FIVE TIMES when asked repeatedly on live radio in Northern Ireland

    Repeatedly asked if he wanted to criticise IRA's atrocities during Troubles
    But Jeremy Corbyn sidestepped chance to condemn bombings five times
    He caused outrage after inviting Sinn Feinn to London after Brighton attack
    Labour leadership frontrunner come under fire from relatives of victims


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3187245/Jeremy-Corbyn-blasted-refusing-condemn-IRA-terror-attacks-FIVE-TIMES-asked-repeatedly-live-radio-Northern-Ireland.html#ixzz3i4TcdgSy
    Yebbut Labour doesn't bother standing for election in Northern Ireland, you see.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited August 2015

    calum said:

    I sense rising disillusionment with not only Westminster but the Establishment in general - the Kids Company, paedophile rings, H of L in general, FTSE Directors feeding each others packages by sitting on remuneration committees, Osbo's City mates and RBS sell off etc.

    An obvious line of attack for Corbyn is to present himself as someone who is prepared to fearlessly clean out the Establishment's stables, barrels of rotten apples and the privileged Tim (& Timesses) Nice but Dims who sit on charity boards and quangos. Corbyn could ruthlessly name and shame under Parliamentary privilage and get the MSM off their asses and chasing Establishment misbehaving dragons as opposed to imaginary SNP trolls.

    But the SNP is Scotland's establishment now.
    I think your problem Calum, perhaps, is that that is a loose definition of the establishment. I am reminded of one review of Owen Jones' book on the subject:
    Jones’s concept of the Establishment is more than Henry Fairlie’s matrix of official and social relations within which power is exercised through social networks; it is a state of mind, ‘the ideas and mentalities’ that govern the way certain people behave. The Establishment is made up of ‘powerful groups that need to protect their position in a democracy’; its existence is, in the abstract, something upon which both left and right are agreed. Jones likens the perception of the Establishment in practical terms to the inkblot in the Rorschach test: it depends on where you are on the political spectrum as to what you see as the Establishment.
    The question is really whether such a wide definition is useful. In my opinion, it shouldn't be; but as a purely descriptive term for how people view things, perhaps it has merit...
  • RodCrosby said:

    FPT @HurstLama

    I think I will take the word of the calibre of men like Eisenhower, MacArthur, Leahy and Hoover over just about any armchair generals or theorists you can muster... And there were plenty of others on the inside who knew the Japanese had already agreed to surrender in principle.

    Rear-Admiral Ellis Zacharias, (later Deputy Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence)
    Based on a series of intelligence reports received in late 1944, Zacharias, long a student of Japan's people and culture, believed the Japan would soon be ripe for surrender if the proper approach were taken. For him, that approach was not as simple as bludgeoning Japanese cities:

    "...while Allied leaders were immediately inclined to support all innovations however bold and novel in the strictly military sphere, they frowned upon similar innovations in the sphere of diplomatic and psychological warfare."
    - Ellis Zacharias, The A-Bomb Was Not Needed, United Nations World, Aug. 1949, pg. 29.

    Zacharias saw that there were diplomatic and religious (the status of the Emperor) elements that blocked the doves in Japan's government from making their move:

    "What prevented them from suing for peace or from bringing their plot into the open was their uncertainty on two scores. First, they wanted to know the meaning of unconditional surrender and the fate we planned for Japan after defeat. Second, they tried to obtain from us assurances that the Emperor could remain on the throne after surrender."
    - Ellis Zacharias, Eighteen Words That Bagged Japan, Saturday Evening Post, 11/17/45, pg. 17.

    The Allies gave the green light to Soviet advances "within two or three months of Germany's defeat" as early as Yalta, February 1945.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    calum said:

    I sense rising disillusionment with not only Westminster but the Establishment in general - the Kids Company, paedophile rings, H of L in general, FTSE Directors feeding each others packages by sitting on remuneration committees, Osbo's City mates and RBS sell off etc.

    An obvious line of attack for Corbyn is to present himself as someone who is prepared to fearlessly clean out the Establishment's stables, barrels of rotten apples and the privileged Tim (& Timesses) Nice but Dims who sit on charity boards and quangos. Corbyn could ruthlessly name and shame under Parliamentary privilage and get the MSM off their asses and chasing Establishment misbehaving dragons as opposed to imaginary SNP trolls.

    I was not suprised to see career politician Matthew Hancock's name mentioned in the Kids Company scandal. The whole Kids Company mess could have been averted if there were more people with common sense and real world experience.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    @Freggles: FPT you said "Not to pick a fight, but Jesus clearly thought the woman caught in adultery had sinned, if that's the bit you're referring to."

    True - but she was not the prostitute. I was thinking more of his association with Mary Magdalene, the fact that he said to the people trying to stone the adulteress to look at the beams in their own eyes and, finally (since this is not Theology.com), of the injunction "To do unto others what you would want done to you".

    If we treat gay people (or any other picked on group) as outcasts and do them harm, we are harming ourselves, we are being unkind to ourselves, to our sense of what it ought to mean to be human (and divine, if you believe in that).

    I am not a theologian and probably not even a good Catholic. "Love one another" is a pretty good injunction for life. It was not followed by "except him, her and that lot over there".

    Jesus could be pretty harsh. If merely looking at another woman lustfully is committing adultery in one's heart, I think I'm on thin ice.

    Jesus was making a point that nobody is perfect, against the religious leaders at the time who thought how wonderful they were because they followed all the "rules".

    Also that no one can save themselves through trying to be a good person - as nobody is - only by asking for forgiveness from God.

    I think that's true. But, I think what I struggle with is the fact that Jesus' teachings make no concession *at all* to human nature. "Be you perfect, as your Father in Heaven is perfect."

    How could anyone love their enemies, for example? And, why should they?
    Fortunately, Jesus' actions in sacrificing Himself for us make up the shortfall between what is humanly possible, and what God/justice requires of us
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Twitter taking turns to stick knives into Alan Yentob (unexpectantly).

    Could be damaging to BBC governance now...
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    MP_SE said:

    calum said:

    I sense rising disillusionment with not only Westminster but the Establishment in general - the Kids Company, paedophile rings, H of L in general, FTSE Directors feeding each others packages by sitting on remuneration committees, Osbo's City mates and RBS sell off etc.

    An obvious line of attack for Corbyn is to present himself as someone who is prepared to fearlessly clean out the Establishment's stables, barrels of rotten apples and the privileged Tim (& Timesses) Nice but Dims who sit on charity boards and quangos. Corbyn could ruthlessly name and shame under Parliamentary privilage and get the MSM off their asses and chasing Establishment misbehaving dragons as opposed to imaginary SNP trolls.

    I was not suprised to see career politician Matthew Hancock's name mentioned in the Kids Company scandal. The whole Kids Company mess could have been averted if there were more people with common sense and real world experience.
    Worth listening to - 'Kids Company: What's Going On?'

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0644190
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Twitter taking turns to stick knives into Alan Yentob (unexpectantly).

    Could be damaging to BBC governance now...

    @paulwaugh: Absolutely amazed BBC 10 cowed by Yentob into leading on his denial (on C4News) rather than @lucymanning exclusive
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    The Fox questioner seems to be taking the 100-word question approach so far. But I have only just started watching
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,336

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    @Freggles: FPT you said "Not to pick a fight, but Jesus clearly thought the woman caught in adultery had sinned, if that's the bit you're referring to."

    True - but she was not the prostitute. I was thinking more of his association with Mary Magdalene, the fact that he said to the people trying to stone the adulteress to look at the beams in their own eyes and, finally (since this is not Theology.com), of the injunction "To do unto others what you would want done to you".

    If we treat gay people (or any other picked on group) as outcasts and do them harm, we are harming ourselves, we are being unkind to ourselves, to our sense of what it ought to mean to be human (and divine, if you believe in that).

    I am not a theologian and probably not even a good Catholic. "Love one another" is a pretty good injunction for life. It was not followed by "except him, her and that lot over there".

    Jesus could be pretty harsh. If merely looking at another woman lustfully is committing adultery in one's heart, I think I'm on thin ice.
    @theology.com

    I think that very consistent with Jesus's other teachings as the emphasis is very much on the internal cleanliness rather than externalities. Jesus was even harsher (with righteous anger) on the hypocrits and pharisees obsessed with external obedience but with no love in their hearts. Indeed the people cited by Jesus as examples to follow include a Samaritan (a sect believed to be heritics by his audience) and a Roman Officer (of an oppressing army). Neither of these obeyed the externals of Jewish or Christian teachings but both listened to the internal voice.
    Exactly so. A conscience. A moral compass. The voice which asks not just "Can I do this? But should I do it?" That still small voice of calm.

    We all need one. And pretty much all of us have one, whether we're religious or not. I hope so, anyway.


    Off on my hols tomorrow, to Catalunya and Mallorca. God, I really need the rest!

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,157
    edited August 2015
    "Then tonight we dine in Cleveland!" :lol:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60_qngJfgTA
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    calum said:
    He is wrong on virtually every point.

    Most people did not believe that Saddam hadn't got WMDs, not least because (1) he most certainly did have WMDs at one point because he used them, and (2) because he'd spent the previous ten years giving weapons inspectors the run-around. Whether those weapons were in a usable condition was open for debate but hardly anyone thought that he'd actually destroyed them.

    Britain hasn't had meaningful austerity and most people haven't much noticed. It's affected a few quite hard and a lot of others have had to tighten their belts but to a manageable degree. Some people will always overspend and some others will always end up in financial hardship whatever the economy is doing.

    The centre ground does accept the necessity of getting the deficit under control which is why the Conservatives won in May. Money doesn't grow on trees.

    There is a problem with the housing market although I suspect the point about working 50 hours a week to pay the rent is a consequence of living in the London bubble, where there is a major problem - though not necessarily one to do with the domestic economy.

    And it goes on.

    Corbyn is not the voice of the voiceless; he's the voice of the noisy.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,984
    edited August 2015
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    RodCrosby said:

    FPT @HurstLama

    I think I will take the word of the calibre of men like Eisenhower, MacArthur, Leahy and Hoover over just about any armchair generals or theorists you can muster... And there were plenty of others on the inside who knew the Japanese had already agreed to surrender in principle.

    Rear-Admiral Ellis Zacharias, (later Deputy Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence)
    Based on a series of intelligence reports received in late 1944, Zacharias, long a student of Japan's people and culture, believed the Japan would soon be ripe for surrender if the proper approach were taken. For him, that approach was not as simple as bludgeoning Japanese cities:

    "...while Allied leaders were immediately inclined to support all innovations however bold and novel in the strictly military sphere, they frowned upon similar innovations in the sphere of diplomatic and psychological warfare."
    - Ellis Zacharias, The A-Bomb Was Not Needed, United Nations World, Aug. 1949, pg. 29.

    Zacharias saw that there were diplomatic and religious (the status of the Emperor) elements that blocked the doves in Japan's government from making their move:

    "What prevented them from suing for peace or from bringing their plot into the open was their uncertainty on two scores. First, they wanted to know the meaning of unconditional surrender and the fate we planned for Japan after defeat. Second, they tried to obtain from us assurances that the Emperor could remain on the throne after surrender."
    - Ellis Zacharias, Eighteen Words That Bagged Japan, Saturday Evening Post, 11/17/45, pg. 17.

    Who said anything about armchair generals? I said people who were involved in the decision, which people like Eisenhower were not. You seem to think that I am defending the decision to drop the bomb. I most certainly am not. Passing judgement on events in history is a fools game. I merely try and understand them.

    In this case the Allies had decided that only unconditional surrender would be sufficient. Japan refused and wanted conditions. How then to bring the war to a successful conclusion?

    Suggesting that the allies could have demanded something other than unconditional surrender is another ball game and really into the realms of "what if" alternate history. They could have done but they didn't.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    MTimT said:

    FPT @ SeanF Re the 1 million US casualties and the decision to drop the bomb, I thought that that 1 million was, based upon Okinawa and what it took to take Sugar Loaf Hill in particular, the estimate of US casualties made at the time for taking the rest of Japan.

    Yes I think that's right. And of course there would be the Japanese casualties. And all the civilian casualties as well.
    All these estimates might have been wrong but we will never know. We do know what the Okinawa casualties were and we know of all the mass Japanese suicides on Okinawa. It was not pretty.
    I do not think we should be surprised that the decision to drop the bomb was political. The decision to invade and accept the casualties would have been political as well.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    That last line: continued page 9-4. :smile:

  • LOL I loved how the Times are 'helping' the Labour party block hard left infiltrators. You'd think they let the idiots behind the £3 rule dig their own grave.
  • Technically speaking, isn't "pomicide" the killing of poms?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    On Natalie Imbruglia: She was born in Australia, grew up in Australia, and last time I heard her speak had an Australian accent. Sure, her mother has British ancestry, but that's true for many Australians - doesn't make them British. On her citizenship: Murdoch is a naturalised American citizen, but I doubt many see him as an American.

    Maybe she was born in Australia.

    But she's torn.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Charles said:

    On Natalie Imbruglia: She was born in Australia, grew up in Australia, and last time I heard her speak had an Australian accent. Sure, her mother has British ancestry, but that's true for many Australians - doesn't make them British. On her citizenship: Murdoch is a naturalised American citizen, but I doubt many see him as an American.

    She's taken the citizenship test and has a British passport.

    That's good enough for me.
    Is that because you fancy her? ;)
    All men of a certain age fancy Beth.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    None of the candidates I've heard have got beyond sixth form debating standard.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    calum said:

    I sense rising disillusionment with not only Westminster but the Establishment in general - the Kids Company, paedophile rings, H of L in general, FTSE Directors feeding each others packages by sitting on remuneration committees, Osbo's City mates and RBS sell off etc.

    An obvious line of attack for Corbyn is to present himself as someone who is prepared to fearlessly clean out the Establishment's stables, barrels of rotten apples and the privileged Tim (& Timesses) Nice but Dims who sit on charity boards and quangos. Corbyn could ruthlessly name and shame under Parliamentary privilage and get the MSM off their asses and chasing Establishment misbehaving dragons as opposed to imaginary SNP trolls.

    But the SNP is Scotland's establishment now.
    Good of you to waste your breath.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,336
    MP_SE said:

    calum said:

    I sense rising disillusionment with not only Westminster but the Establishment in general - the Kids Company, paedophile rings, H of L in general, FTSE Directors feeding each others packages by sitting on remuneration committees, Osbo's City mates and RBS sell off etc.

    An obvious line of attack for Corbyn is to present himself as someone who is prepared to fearlessly clean out the Establishment's stables, barrels of rotten apples and the privileged Tim (& Timesses) Nice but Dims who sit on charity boards and quangos. Corbyn could ruthlessly name and shame under Parliamentary privilage and get the MSM off their asses and chasing Establishment misbehaving dragons as opposed to imaginary SNP trolls.

    I was not suprised to see career politician Matthew Hancock's name mentioned in the Kids Company scandal. The whole Kids Company mess could have been averted if there were more people with common sense and real world experience.
    A bit of curiosity and scepticism wouldn't go amiss.

    Unfortunately people are too willing to believe what they hope is true rather than look at the facts and ask some basic questions. Given how many politicians are lawyers, this is odd.

    Whole industries, careers and reputations have been built on what is little more than bullshit.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,169
    edited August 2015
    Dozens, eh? Perhaps the 'hard-left' might be able to muster a gross by the end of the month.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Dair said:

    On Natalie Imbruglia: She was born in Australia, grew up in Australia, and last time I heard her speak had an Australian accent. Sure, her mother has British ancestry, but that's true for many Australians - doesn't make them British. On her citizenship: Murdoch is a naturalised American citizen, but I doubt many see him as an American.

    Maybe she was born in Australia.

    But she's torn.
    My wife and I were both born and raised in the UK, both of UK ancestry. Our daughter was born in the US. All 3 of us have both UK and US passports.
  • I've never been a fan of Natalia Imbruglia, after it was said, that she bumped uglies with Liam Fox.

    A story both denied.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited August 2015
    I got in late but:

    Pataki, poor;
    Fiorina, awful;
    Perry, poor;
    Graham, poor (but hit Clinton OK);
    Santorum x 2, strange.
    Gilmore, OK.
  • I've never been a fan of Natalia Imbruglia, after it was said, that she bumped uglies with Liam Fox.

    A story both denied.

    So you would say you're "Torn"? :)

    [subtle pop reference of the evening!]
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547
    RodCrosby said:

    To resolve these issues, Zacharias developed several plans for secret negotiations with Japanese representatives; all were rejected by the U.S. government. Instead, a series of psychological warfare radio broadcasts by Zacharias was later approved. In the July 21, 1945 broadcast, Zacharias made an offer to Japan that stirred controversy in the U.S. - a surrender based on the Atlantic Charter.

    On July 25th, the U.S. intercepted a secret transmission from Japan's Foreign Minister (Togo) to their Ambassador to Moscow (Sato), who was trying to set up a meeting with the Soviets to negotiate an end to the war. The message referred to the Zacharias broadcast and stated:

    "...special attention should be paid to the fact that at this time the United States referred to the Atlantic Charter. As for Japan, it is impossible to accept unconditional surrender under any circumstances, but we should like to communicate to the other party through appropriate channels that we have no objection to a peace based on the Atlantic Charter."
    U.S. Dept. of State, Foreign Relations of the United States: Conference of Berlin (Potsdam) 1945, vol. 2, pg. 1260-1261.


    But on July 26th, the U.S., Great Britain, and China publicly issued the Potsdam Proclamation demanding "unconditional surrender" from Japan. Zacharias later commented on the favorable Japanese response to his broadcast:

    "The Potsdam Declaration, in short, wrecked everything we had been working for to prevent further bloodshed...

    "Just when the Japanese were ready to capitulate, we went ahead and introduced to the world the most devastating weapon it had ever seen and, in effect, gave the go-ahead to Russia to swarm over Eastern Asia...
    "I submit that it was the wrong decision. It was wrong on strategic grounds. And it was wrong on humanitarian grounds."

    - Ellis Zacharias, How We Bungled the Japanese Surrender, Look, 6/6/50, pg. 19-21.

    Peace could have been had with the Japanese at any point in 1945....... Had we accepted that Japan continue to rule Formosa, Manchuria, Shanghai, Nanking, Peking, Korea, and Coastal China. Perhaps we should. They would certainly have given up Malaya and the East Indies.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    @Hurst and RodCrosby

    Hurst is right- history is context specific. As much as I think it is not particularly sensible to judge the sexual antics of the 60's and 70's by today's standards- the endless prosecutions of Yewtree for instance- the same is true for war crimes.

    I can understand why the Allies agreed to drop the bomb in 1945- but I can also understand the need to move on and say that this action is unacceptable by today's standards. The two are not mutually incompatible.
  • Dair said:

    On Natalie Imbruglia: She was born in Australia, grew up in Australia, and last time I heard her speak had an Australian accent. Sure, her mother has British ancestry, but that's true for many Australians - doesn't make them British. On her citizenship: Murdoch is a naturalised American citizen, but I doubt many see him as an American.

    Maybe she was born in Australia.

    But she's torn.
    That is a terrible pun!

    Good song though.
  • Technically speaking, isn't "pomicide" the killing of poms?

    Apples, surely!
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    I got in late but:

    Pataki, poor;
    Fiorina, awful;
    Perry, poor;
    Graham, poor (but hit Clinton OK);
    Santorum x 2, strange.
    Gilmore, OK.

    I'm eating pizza, drinking beer, feeding Heidi and talking to my wife.

    It's strange with no audience at the Q.
  • I've never been a fan of Natalia Imbruglia, after it was said, that she bumped uglies with Liam Fox.

    A story both denied.

    So you would say you're "Torn"? :)

    [subtle pop reference of the evening!]
    It's a Big Mistake to think that.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    I've never been a fan of Natalia Imbruglia, after it was said, that she bumped uglies with Liam Fox.

    A story both denied.

    So you would say you're "Torn"? :)

    [subtle pop reference of the evening!]
    Subtle, adjective

    making use of clever and indirect methods to achieve something.
    "he tried a more subtle approach"
  • I've never been a fan of Natalia Imbruglia, after it was said, that she bumped uglies with Liam Fox.

    A story both denied.

    So you would say you're "Torn"? :)

    [subtle pop reference of the evening!]
    Subtle, adjective

    making use of clever and indirect methods to achieve something.
    "he tried a more subtle approach"
    As PB's foremost expert on subtle pop music references, I'm going to have to give Sunil some lessons about this.
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