Jez is more of a Professional Politician than we give him credit for. He quite skilfully dodged giving a straight answer on whether he wanted Blair to be tried for war crimes.
Of course he did. It's amazing how so many veteran politicians can define themselves or allow themselves to be defined as not really being professional politicians, with varying degrees of plausibility after years, even decades, in politics. Having been a backbencher for his entire time gives him more plausibility than someone like Jeb Bush pitching as an outsider to the Washington politics, but I still don't find it particularly convincing, he's as steeped in political culture as any of them, he's just not been climbing the greasy pole - perhaps a point in his favour for many, but on its own not indicative of much.
Pulpstar will not be able to bet on the colour of Jezzas tie thats a fact
I was a bit concerned having fairly unelectable (For the GE) Jezza in charge of Labour could be bad for democracy - but those concerns are now gone as he's my biggest winner.
Pulps- to answer your question earlier- I don't know who I'm voting for. I'm conflicted. I wanted Chuka initially.
1) Kendall 2) Corbyn 3) Cooper
Kendall can't win, but there's a very vague outside chance she could push either Cooper or Burnham to last.
I still don't understand the problem with having non-Labour supporters voting in the leadership election. The whole point of the system (which, again, was pushed for primarily by Blairites) was precisely to "broaden the debate out beyond the party".
Sure, you'll get a few idiots who purposely vote for who they think would be an election-loser. But what's the problem with people like Mike Smithson having a vote (who has said he wants a strong opposition for the good of the country so will be voting for who he thinks is best)?
To vote, you have to agree to the aims and values of the Labour Party. If you don't support the party and it aims and you join then it's under false pretences so you should be barred from voting.
Very simple.
Values of which Labour?
I think one thing we are learning is that it is not clear what are Labour party values.
You have more hope in 'not a member of organisations opposed to Labour', but that arguably includes orgs seeking to manipulate and control the party such as Unite. Their strategy is explicit and has been leaked as we know.
The threat comes from skewed recruitment of Union members, Greens etc fellow travellers joining, and orgs with known entryist strategies.
I still don't understand the problem with having non-Labour supporters voting in the leadership election. The whole point of the system (which, again, was pushed for primarily by Blairites) was precisely to "broaden the debate out beyond the party".
Sure, you'll get a few idiots who purposely vote for who they think would be an election-loser. But what's the problem with people like Mike Smithson having a vote (who has said he wants a strong opposition for the good of the country so will be voting for who he thinks is best)?
To vote, you have to agree to the aims and values of the Labour Party. If you don't support the party and it aims and you join then it's under false pretences so you should be barred from voting.
Weate.
Agree, but you can't blame me for kicking him out.
Not at all, well within your rights; I do however feel the 'subverting democracy' label is unfair, as while an election is technically taking place, I don't know that term is applicable with what is merely the internal process of a private club.
I'd take issue with that. If you actively oppose the aims and principles of an organisation (which he does based on his Twitter feed) then you have no business joining it just to harm it. There may be edge cases where the organisation is so bad that you feel it is morally justifiable, but mainstream UK political parties don't qualify. It's childish, petty, dishonest and democratically bankrupt.
Childish, petty and dishonest, I'll grant you. But I cannot on the last. The party presumably don't have to allow members or the public any vote at all on their leadership, they can be as internally dictatorial or just plain bananas as they want, and they've currently chosen a method open to some (probably small) level of manipulation; democracy as a concept is not hurt because a club as silly rules. You obviously feel strongly that people should not join an organisation just to harm it, and that's a fine, principled position...but there is no wider harm if the rules do permit it, just embarrassment for that club.
I do feel strongly it's true. Democracy is a two way street. It behoves all of us to abide by the rules and not try and subvert it for our own means. Those principles don't change depending on the election we are engaging in (or pointedly, staying OUT of).
If Hertsmere wants to take part in the Labour Leadership vote, then he has every right to!
Not under the rules he doesn't. He doesn't support the aims of the party.
I think you're probably some troll, rather than genuinely anything to do with Hertsmere CLP.
Think what you like. I have gone to the effort of finding out his real name and reporting him. Why you think I wouldn't do that I don't know. I also happen to be the membership secretary so it wasn't hard to cross reference. It was the right thing to do.
If Hertsmere wants to take part in the Labour Leadership vote, then he has every right to!
Not under the rules he doesn't. He doesn't support the aims of the party.
I think you're probably some troll, rather than genuinely anything to do with Hertsmere CLP.
Think what you like. I have gone to the effort of finding out his real name and reporting him. Why you think I wouldn't do that I don't know. I also happen to be the membership secretary so it wasn't hard to cross reference. It was the right thing to do.
Monty has a point. I was tempted to register, to vote for Corbyn, but I decided it would be dishonest.
Same with me. I couldn't bring myself to do it.
I would agree, a bit pathetic on the part of the £3 short term enlisters. However I cannot get worked up about it. Labour only have themselves to blame. The whole point is to chose between candidates that are acceptable to the PLP. And the transferable vote rubbish means they are voting in the dark. The Parliamentary Party should be allowed to get to a final 2 and then the membership vote. If Labour cannot work out how to elect its own leader then how can we expect it to run the country?
Pulpstar will not be able to bet on the colour of Jezzas tie thats a fact
I was a bit concerned having fairly unelectable (For the GE) Jezza in charge of Labour could be bad for democracy - but those concerns are now gone as he's my biggest winner.
Pulps- to answer your question earlier- I don't know who I'm voting for. I'm conflicted. I wanted Chuka initially.
1) Kendall 2) Corbyn 3) Cooper
Kendall can't win, but there's a very vague outside chance she could push either Cooper or Burnham to last.
This is the best tactical ballot right now !
I will be voting
1) Burnham 2) Kendall 3) Corbyn 4) Cooper
Though Kendall has zero chance of beating Cooper or Burnham
@Monty Hertsmere is a true committed socialist. How else could anyone justify supporting Diane Abbot's bid for the London mayoralty ?!
Indeed Pulpy, Diane was my first choice in 2010 too. But @Monty is free to try and play some Soviet era Political Commissaire and try and weed me out for having insufficient revolutionary thoughts or something I suppose.
If I had a vote in the Labour leadership campaign, I'd have to vote for Cooper, for the most sensible of reasons - her choice of biscuit. Though I have to say Nick Clegg's answer was spot on with my own, which is presumably why I gave him so much benefit of the doubt.
Five gays in Barnsley watching snooker for me starting tomorrow.
My only break is when i visit a medium with my daughter tomorrow.
Might ask her if Jezza will win!!
That sounds a bit exotic for Barnsley.
Potting the Pink
More downing the brown
Screwing the Blue?
There are no Tories in Barnsley.
A few years ago, my train from Leeds to Sheffield broke down in Barnsley, I had to spend an hour in Barnsley late on a Friday night, waiting for a lift.
I haven't been that scared since I nearly got mugged by some crackheads.
Honestly, Barnsley is such a dump, it could be twinned with anywhere in Essex.
This guy had it right
Barnsley's homesick striker, Macedonian Georgi Hristov, says he is finding it hard to get a girlfriend in England because local girls are not pretty and drink too much.
Hristov, 21, who joined Barnsley from Partizan Belgrade for £1.5m last summer, is reported to have told a Belgrade sports magazine: "I'm finding it difficult to find a girlfriend in Barnsley, or indeed settle into a decent way of life.
"The local girls are far uglier than the ones back in Belgrade or Skopje, the capital of Macedonia, where I come from.
"Our women are much prettier. Besides, they don't drink as much beer as the Barnsley girls which is something I don't like at all."
Five gays in Barnsley watching snooker for me starting tomorrow.
My only break is when i visit a medium with my daughter tomorrow.
Might ask her if Jezza will win!!
That sounds a bit exotic for Barnsley.
Potting the Pink
More downing the brown
Screwing the Blue?
There are no Tories in Barnsley.
A few years ago, my train from Leeds to Sheffield broke down in Barnsley, I had to spend an hour in Barnsley late on a Friday night, waiting for a lift.
I haven't been that scared since I nearly got mugged by some crackheads.
Honestly, Barnsley is such a dump, it could be twinned with anywhere in Essex.
This guy had it right
Barnsley's homesick striker, Macedonian Georgi Hristov, says he is finding it hard to get a girlfriend in England because local girls are not pretty and drink too much.
Hristov, 21, who joined Barnsley from Partizan Belgrade for £1.5m last summer, is reported to have told a Belgrade sports magazine: "I'm finding it difficult to find a girlfriend in Barnsley, or indeed settle into a decent way of life.
"The local girls are far uglier than the ones back in Belgrade or Skopje, the capital of Macedonia, where I come from.
"Our women are much prettier. Besides, they don't drink as much beer as the Barnsley girls which is something I don't like at all."
@JamesClayton5: Corbyn tells #newsnight's @maitlis that Blair could be tried for war crimes. This could get messy...
Hell yeah, I'd vote for him!
(Could he add in Al "Sexed Up Dossier" Campbell too please? Pretty please?)
Straw and Hoon as well please. My membership card arrived today. With this news Jezza could be rocketing to my first choice. Jez we can!
You won't be voting. I've reported your name to the Labour Party in my role as Hertsmere Membership Secretary.
Tories should NOT be voting in Labour elections. I feel very strongly about this.
You should be ashamed of yourself. It's a perversion of democracy.
Monty
Who says he's a Tory?
He's anti Labour. He won't be voting. It's done.
Maybe he's been converted to Labour by Jeremy Corbyn.
I wouldn't dream of trying to vote in the internal election of a party I don't support. I find it genuinely disgusting. I'm a believer in democracy before anything else and any action that tries to subvert democracy is wrong.
My entire household will be voting and some relatives are in on the action
They are all going to be voting for the loony left candidate Corbyn.
Good for you. Next time you moan about postal vote fraud I'll remember your democratic morals.
Five gays in Barnsley watching snooker for me starting tomorrow.
My only break is when i visit a medium with my daughter tomorrow.
Might ask her if Jezza will win!!
That sounds a bit exotic for Barnsley.
Potting the Pink
More downing the brown
Screwing the Blue?
There are no Tories in Barnsley.
A few years ago, my train from Leeds to Sheffield broke down in Barnsley, I had to spend an hour in Barnsley late on a Friday night, waiting for a lift.
I haven't been that scared since I nearly got mugged by some crackheads.
Honestly, Barnsley is such a dump, it could be twinned with anywhere in Essex.
This guy had it right
Barnsley's homesick striker, Macedonian Georgi Hristov, says he is finding it hard to get a girlfriend in England because local girls are not pretty and drink too much.
Hristov, 21, who joined Barnsley from Partizan Belgrade for £1.5m last summer, is reported to have told a Belgrade sports magazine: "I'm finding it difficult to find a girlfriend in Barnsley, or indeed settle into a decent way of life.
"The local girls are far uglier than the ones back in Belgrade or Skopje, the capital of Macedonia, where I come from.
"Our women are much prettier. Besides, they don't drink as much beer as the Barnsley girls which is something I don't like at all."
I still don't understand the problem with having non-Labour supporters voting in the leadership election. The whole point of the system (which, again, was pushed for primarily by Blairites) was precisely to "broaden the debate out beyond the party".
Sure, you'll get a few idiots who purposely vote for who they think would be an election-loser. But what's the problem with people like Mike Smithson having a vote (who has said he wants a strong opposition for the good of the country so will be voting for who he thinks is best)?
To vote, you have to agree to the aims and values of the Labour Party. If you don't support the party and it aims and you join then it's under false pretences so you should be barred from voting.
Very simple.
I'm nice normally. But I don't like it when people fuck with elections. On any side.
Interesting lack of self awareness because on the evidence you're actually a bell-end.
I still don't understand the problem with having non-Labour supporters voting in the leadership election. The whole point of the system (which, again, was pushed for primarily by Blairites) was precisely to "broaden the debate out beyond the party".
Sure, you'll get a few idiots who purposely vote for who they think would be an election-loser. But what's the problem with people like Mike Smithson having a vote (who has said he wants a strong opposition for the good of the country so will be voting for who he thinks is best)?
To vote, you have to agree to the aims and values of the Labour Party. If you don't support the party and it aims and you join then it's under false pretences so you should be barred from voting.
Well sure, but it's incumbent upon the members of a club to check the credentials of those who wish to join the club, and as you say expel those that don't meet the requirements.
snip .
Agree, but you can't blame me for kicking him out.
Not at all, well within your rights; I do however feel the 'subverting democracy' label is unfair, as while an election is technically taking place, I don't know that term is applicable with what is merely the internal process of a private club.
I'd take issue with that. If you actively oppose the aims and principles of an organisation (which he does based on his Twitter feed) then you have no business joining it just to harm it. There may be edge cases where the organisation is so bad that you feel it is morally justifiable, but mainstream UK political parties don't qualify. It's childish, petty, dishonest and democratically bankrupt.
I felt good sending off the email to the party.
I can't stop him registering under a false name, but on the upside at least I'm not him, reduced to that sort of juvenile nonsense.
Well if Labour cared so much about that they should have had a 6 month minimum membership rule before being able to receive a ballot
Yes, but thats just like saying the Calais fence should be higher rather than pointing out climbing it anyway is illegal. Just because the Lion is in Africa does not mean you have to go and shoot it. Like I say I cannot get worked up over it (Labour's rules are overwhelmingly stupid) but its wrong and poor show defending it. By my reckoning its doubly wrong where you are actually a member of another party and triply wrong if that party is the sanctimonious LD party.
@Monty Hertsmere is a true committed socialist. How else could anyone justify supporting Diane Abbot's bid for the London mayoralty ?!
Indeed Pulpy, Diane was my first choice in 2010 too. But @Monty is free to try and play some Soviet era Political Commissaire and try and weed me out for having insufficient revolutionary thoughts or something I suppose.
@JamesClayton5: Corbyn tells #newsnight's @maitlis that Blair could be tried for war crimes. This could get messy...
Hell yeah, I'd vote for him!
(Could he add in Al "Sexed Up Dossier" Campbell too please? Pretty please?)
Straw and Hoon as well please. My membership card arrived today. With this news Jezza could be rocketing to my first choice. Jez we can!
You won't be voting. I've reported your name to the Labour Party in my role as Hertsmere Membership Secretary.
Tories should NOT be voting in Labour elections. I feel very strongly about this.
You should be ashamed of yourself. It's a perversion of democracy.
Monty
Who says he's a Tory?
He's anti Labour. He won't be voting. It's done.
Maybe he's been converted to Labour by Jeremy Corbyn.
I wouldn't dream of trying to vote in the internal election of a party I don't support. I find it genuinely disgusting. I'm a believer in democracy before anything else and any action that tries to subvert democracy is wrong.
My entire household will be voting and some relatives are in on the action
They are all going to be voting for the loony left candidate Corbyn.
Good for you. Next time you moan about postal vote fraud I'll remember your democratic morals.
You equate messing with a private club to violating electoral law?
I still don't understand the problem with having non-Labour supporters voting in the leadership election. The whole point of the system (which, again, was pushed for primarily by Blairites) was precisely to "broaden the debate out beyond the party".
Sure, you'll get a few idiots who purposely vote for who they think would be an election-loser. But what's the problem with people like Mike Smithson having a vote (who has said he wants a strong opposition for the good of the country so will be voting for who he thinks is best)?
To vote, you have to agree to the aims and values of the Labour Party. If you don't support the party and it aims and you join then it's under false pretences so you should be barred from voting.
Very simple.
I'm nice normally. But I don't like it when people fuck with elections. On any side.
Interesting lack of self awareness because on the evidence you're actually a bell-end.
Really? You'd be fine with Labour members masquerading as Tories to vote for the worst candidate? Of course you would.
I think I've been pretty restrained. I've done what I think is the right thing by trying to keep the election as honest as possible.
@JamesClayton5: Corbyn tells #newsnight's @maitlis that Blair could be tried for war crimes. This could get messy...
Hell yeah, I'd vote for him!
(Could he add in Al "Sexed Up Dossier" Campbell too please? Pretty please?)
Straw and Hoon as well please. My membership card arrived today. With this news Jezza could be rocketing to my first choice. Jez we can!
You won't be voting. I've reported your name to the Labour Party in my role as Hertsmere Membership Secretary.
Tories should NOT be voting in Labour elections. I feel very strongly about this.
You should be ashamed of yourself. It's a perversion of democracy.
Monty
Who says he's a Tory?
He's anti Labour. He won't be voting. It's done.
Maybe he's been converted to Labour by Jeremy Corbyn.
I wouldn't dream of trying to vote in the internal election of a party I don't support. I find it genuinely disgusting. I'm a believer in democracy before anything else and any action that tries to subvert democracy is wrong.
My entire household will be voting and some relatives are in on the action
They are all going to be voting for the loony left candidate Corbyn.
Good for you. Next time you moan about postal vote fraud I'll remember your democratic morals.
You equate messing with a private club to violating electoral law?
Neither are honourable. I think they are both part of a slippery slope when dealing with democracy. Obviously fraud is a different league, but if you condone entryism your hands are not clean.
@Monty Hertsmere is a true committed socialist. How else could anyone justify supporting Diane Abbot's bid for the London mayoralty ?!
Indeed Pulpy, Diane was my first choice in 2010 too. But @Monty is free to try and play some Soviet era Political Commissaire and try and weed me out for having insufficient revolutionary thoughts or something I suppose.
You're just annoyed you've been busted.
Hardly, you've not cost me a penny. If you were really smart you wouldn't have told me until you'd got the first payment, but Labour never do seem to understand financial stuff. But thanks for the stuff through the post anyway.
@Monty Hertsmere is a true committed socialist. How else could anyone justify supporting Diane Abbot's bid for the London mayoralty ?!
Indeed Pulpy, Diane was my first choice in 2010 too. But @Monty is free to try and play some Soviet era Political Commissaire and try and weed me out for having insufficient revolutionary thoughts or something I suppose.
You're just annoyed you've been busted.
Hardly, you've not cost me a penny. If you were really smart you wouldn't have told me until you'd got the first payment, but Labour never do seem to understand financial stuff. But thanks for the stuff through the post anyway.
I still don't understand the problem with having non-Labour supporters voting in the leadership election. The whole point of the system (which, again, was pushed for primarily by Blairites) was precisely to "broaden the debate out beyond the party".
Sure, you'll get a few idiots who purposely vote for who they think would be an election-loser. But what's the problem with people like Mike Smithson having a vote (who has said he wants a strong opposition for the good of the country so will be voting for who he thinks is best)?
To vote, you have to agree to the aims and values of the Labour Party. If you don't support the party and it aims and you join then it's under false pretences so you should be barred from voting.
Well sure, but it's incumbent upon the members of a club to check the credentials of those who wish to join the club, and as you say expel those that don't meet the requirements.
snip .
Agree, but you can't blame me for kicking him out.
Not at all, well within your rights; I do however feel the 'subverting democracy' label is unfair, as while an election is technically taking place, I don't know that term is applicable with what is merely the internal process of a private club.
I'd take issue with that. If you actively oppose the aims and principles of an organisation (which he does based on his Twitter feed) then you have no business joining it just to harm it. There may be edge cases where the organisation is so bad that you feel it is morally justifiable, but mainstream UK political parties don't qualify. It's childish, petty, dishonest and democratically bankrupt.
I felt good sending off the email to the party.
I can't stop him registering under a false name, but on the upside at least I'm not him, reduced to that sort of juvenile nonsense.
Well if Labour cared so much about that they should have had a 6 month minimum membership rule before being able to receive a ballot
Yes, but thats just like saying the Calais fence should be higher rather than pointing out climbing it anyway is illegal. Just because the Lion is in Africa does not mean you have to go and shoot it. Like I say I cannot get worked up over it (Labour's rules are overwhelmingly stupid) but its wrong and poor show defending it. By my reckoning its doubly wrong where you are actually a member of another party and triply wrong if that party is the sanctimonious LD party.
I still don't understand the problem with having non-Labour supporters voting in the leadership election. The whole point of the system (which, again, was pushed for primarily by Blairites) was precisely to "broaden the debate out beyond the party".
Sure, you'll get a few idiots who purposely vote for who they think would be an election-loser. But what's the problem with people like Mike Smithson having a vote (who has said he wants a strong opposition for the good of the country so will be voting for who he thinks is best)?
To vote, you have to agree to the aims and values of the Labour Party. If you don't support the party and it aims and you join then it's under false pretences so you should be barred from voting.
Well sure, but it's incumbent upon the members of a club to check the credentials of those who wish to join the club, and as you say expel those that don't meet the requirements.
snip .
Agree, but you can't blame me for kicking him out.
Not at all, well within your rights; I do however feel the 'subverting democracy' label is unfair, as while an election is technically taking place, I don't know that term is applicable with what is merely the internal process of a private club.
I'd take issue with that. If you actively oppose the aims and principles of an organisation (which he does based on his Twitter feed) then you have no business joining it just to harm it. There may be edge cases where the organisation is so bad that you feel it is morally justifiable, but mainstream UK political parties don't qualify. It's childish, petty, dishonest and democratically bankrupt.
I felt good sending off the email to the party.
I can't stop him registering under a false name, but on the upside at least I'm not him, reduced to that sort of juvenile nonsense.
Well if Labour cared so much about that they should have had a 6 month minimum membership rule before being able to receive a ballot
Yes, but thats just like saying the Calais fence should be higher rather than pointing out climbing it anyway is illegal. Just because the Lion is in Africa does not mean you have to go and shoot it. Like I say I cannot get worked up over it (Labour's rules are overwhelmingly stupid) but its wrong and poor show defending it. By my reckoning its doubly wrong where you are actually a member of another party and triply wrong if that party is the sanctimonious LD party.
@Monty Hertsmere is a true committed socialist. How else could anyone justify supporting Diane Abbot's bid for the London mayoralty ?!
Indeed Pulpy, Diane was my first choice in 2010 too. But @Monty is free to try and play some Soviet era Political Commissaire and try and weed me out for having insufficient revolutionary thoughts or something I suppose.
You're just annoyed you've been busted.
Hardly, you've not cost me a penny. If you were really smart you wouldn't have told me until you'd got the first payment, but Labour never do seem to understand financial stuff. But thanks for the stuff through the post anyway.
Really now you are just embarrassing yourself.
You're the one that's rattled old bean. Good for you on your righteous high horse.
@Monty Hertsmere is a true committed socialist. How else could anyone justify supporting Diane Abbot's bid for the London mayoralty ?!
Indeed Pulpy, Diane was my first choice in 2010 too. But @Monty is free to try and play some Soviet era Political Commissaire and try and weed me out for having insufficient revolutionary thoughts or something I suppose.
You're just annoyed you've been busted.
Hardly, you've not cost me a penny. If you were really smart you wouldn't have told me until you'd got the first payment, but Labour never do seem to understand financial stuff. But thanks for the stuff through the post anyway.
Really now you are just embarrassing yourself.
You're the one that's rattled old bean. Good for you on your righteous high horse.
@JamesClayton5: Corbyn tells #newsnight's @maitlis that Blair could be tried for war crimes. This could get messy...
Hell yeah, I'd vote for him!
(Could he add in Al "Sexed Up Dossier" Campbell too please? Pretty please?)
Straw and Hoon as well please. My membership card arrived today. With this news Jezza could be rocketing to my first choice. Jez we can!
You won't be voting. I've reported your name to the Labour Party in my role as Hertsmere Membership Secretary.
Tories should NOT be voting in Labour elections. I feel very strongly about this.
You should be ashamed of yourself. It's a perversion of democracy.
Monty
Who says he's a Tory?
He's anti Labour. He won't be voting. It's done.
Maybe he's been converted to Labour by Jeremy Corbyn.
I wouldn't dream of trying to vote in the internal election of a party I don't support. I find it genuinely disgusting. I'm a believer in democracy before anything else and any action that tries to subvert democracy is wrong.
My entire household will be voting and some relatives are in on the action
They are all going to be voting for the loony left candidate Corbyn.
Good for you. Next time you moan about postal vote fraud I'll remember your democratic morals.
Hardly comparable. No different to getting all your mates to vote for you in the JCR election and buying them a beer afterwards.
@JamesClayton5: Corbyn tells #newsnight's @maitlis that Blair could be tried for war crimes. This could get messy...
Hell yeah, I'd vote for him!
(Could he add in Al "Sexed Up Dossier" Campbell too please? Pretty please?)
Straw and Hoon as well please. My membership card arrived today. With this news Jezza could be rocketing to my first choice. Jez we can!
You won't be voting. I've reported your name to the Labour Party in my role as Hertsmere Membership Secretary.
Tories should NOT be voting in Labour elections. I feel very strongly about this.
You should be ashamed of yourself. It's a perversion of democracy.
Monty
Who says he's a Tory?
He's anti Labour. He won't be voting. It's done.
Maybe he's been converted to Labour by Jeremy Corbyn.
I wouldn't dream of trying to vote in the internal election of a party I don't support. I find it genuinely disgusting. I'm a believer in democracy before anything else and any action that tries to subvert democracy is wrong.
My entire household will be voting and some relatives are in on the action
They are all going to be voting for the loony left candidate Corbyn.
Good for you. Next time you moan about postal vote fraud I'll remember your democratic morals.
Hardly comparable. No different to getting all your mates to vote for you in the JCR election and buying them a beer afterwards.
Fine. My principles are solid. Entryism is wrong, pure and simple.
@Monty Hertsmere is a true committed socialist. How else could anyone justify supporting Diane Abbot's bid for the London mayoralty ?!
Indeed Pulpy, Diane was my first choice in 2010 too. But @Monty is free to try and play some Soviet era Political Commissaire and try and weed me out for having insufficient revolutionary thoughts or something I suppose.
You're just annoyed you've been busted.
Hardly, you've not cost me a penny. If you were really smart you wouldn't have told me until you'd got the first payment, but Labour never do seem to understand financial stuff. But thanks for the stuff through the post anyway.
Really now you are just embarrassing yourself.
You're the one that's rattled old bean. Good for you on your righteous high horse.
LOL. I can see you aren't bothered.
I'm just having a bit of fun while enjoying a few beers. You're the one pronouncing about 'subverting democracy' etc. If I do or don't get a vote it will make the grande difference of sod all to me. You're the one who's 'feeling good' about googling people, reading their twitter or PB feeds and sending emails, blah, blah, blah.
It's a bit silly for Labour to effectively run an open primary and then complain when non-Labour supporters opt to take part.
I doubt they'll do it this way again. Still out of order to try and disrupt a democratic process for your own ends though. Just because it is easy to try and break something, that doesn't make it ok.
Isn't that what some Labour MPs did putting JC on the paper?
@Monty Hertsmere is a true committed socialist. How else could anyone justify supporting Diane Abbot's bid for the London mayoralty ?!
Indeed Pulpy, Diane was my first choice in 2010 too. But @Monty is free to try and play some Soviet era Political Commissaire and try and weed me out for having insufficient revolutionary thoughts or something I suppose.
You're just annoyed you've been busted.
Hardly, you've not cost me a penny. If you were really smart you wouldn't have told me until you'd got the first payment, but Labour never do seem to understand financial stuff. But thanks for the stuff through the post anyway.
Really now you are just embarrassing yourself.
You're the one that's rattled old bean. Good for you on your righteous high horse.
LOL. I can see you aren't bothered.
I'm just having a bit of fun while enjoying a few beers. You're the one pronouncing about 'subverting democracy' etc. If I do or don't get a vote it will make the grande difference of sod all to me. You're the one who's 'feeling good' about googling people, reading their twitter or PB feeds and sending emails, blah, blah, blah.
It's a bit silly for Labour to effectively run an open primary and then complain when non-Labour supporters opt to take part.
I doubt they'll do it this way again. Still out of order to try and disrupt a democratic process for your own ends though. Just because it is easy to try and break something, that doesn't make it ok.
Isn't that what some Labour MPs did putting JC on the paper?
Arguably. I expect him to win FWIW. If members are foolish enough to vote for him so be it. I just take issue with non-members doing so for nefarious reasons. That's not an unreasonable position.
@Monty Hertsmere is a true committed socialist. How else could anyone justify supporting Diane Abbot's bid for the London mayoralty ?!
Indeed Pulpy, Diane was my first choice in 2010 too. But @Monty is free to try and play some Soviet era Political Commissaire and try and weed me out for having insufficient revolutionary thoughts or something I suppose.
You're just annoyed you've been busted.
Hardly, you've not cost me a penny. If you were really smart you wouldn't have told me until you'd got the first payment, but Labour never do seem to understand financial stuff. But thanks for the stuff through the post anyway.
Really now you are just embarrassing yourself.
You're the one that's rattled old bean. Good for you on your righteous high horse.
LOL. I can see you aren't bothered.
I'm just having a bit of fun while enjoying a few beers. You're the one pronouncing about 'subverting democracy' etc. If I do or don't get a vote it will make the grande difference of sod all to me. You're the one who's 'feeling good' about googling people, reading their twitter or PB feeds and sending emails, blah, blah, blah.
I still don't understand the problem with having non-Labour supporters voting in the leadership election. The whole point of the system (which, again, was pushed for primarily by Blairites) was precisely to "broaden the debate out beyond the party".
Sure, you'll get a few idiots who purposely vote for who they think would be an election-loser. But what's the problem with people like Mike Smithson having a vote (who has said he wants a strong opposition for the good of the country so will be voting for who he thinks is best)?
To vote, you have to agree to the aims and values of the Labour Party. If you don't support the party and it aims and you join then it's under false pretences so you should be barred from voting.
Well sure, but it's incumbent upon the members of a club to check the credentials of those who wish to join the club, and as you say expel those that don't meet the requirements.
snip .
Agree, but you can't blame me for kicking him out.
Not at all, well within your rights; I do however feel the 'subverting democracy' label is unfair, as while an election is technically taking place, I don't know that term is applicable with what is merely the internal process of a private club.
I'd take issue with that. If you actively oppose the aims and principles of an organisation (which he does based on his Twitter feed) then you have no business joining it just to harm it. There may be edge cases where the organisation is so bad that you feel it is morally justifiable, but mainstream UK political parties don't qualify. It's childish, petty, dishonest and democratically bankrupt.
I felt good sending off the email to the party.
I can't stop him registering under a false name, but on the upside at least I'm not him, reduced to that sort of juvenile nonsense.
Well if Labour cared so much about that they should have had a 6 month minimum membership rule before being able to receive a ballot
Yes, but thats just like saying the Calais fence should be higher rather than pointing out climbing it anyway is illegal. Just because the Lion is in Africa does not mean you have to go and shoot it. Like I say I cannot get worked up over it (Labour's rules are overwhelmingly stupid) but its wrong and poor show defending it. By my reckoning its doubly wrong where you are actually a member of another party and triply wrong if that party is the sanctimonious LD party.
Why is it wrong, Labour wanted more voters to participate, it has just decided it does not like those who decided to vote
It's a bit silly for Labour to effectively run an open primary and then complain when non-Labour supporters opt to take part.
I doubt they'll do it this way again. Still out of order to try and disrupt a democratic process for your own ends though. Just because it is easy to try and break something, that doesn't make it ok.
Isn't that what some Labour MPs did putting JC on the paper?
Arguably. I expect him to win FWIW. If members are foolish enough to vote for him so be it. I just take issue with non-members doing so for nefarious reasons. That's not an unreasonable position.
Ah, so the truth is out. It's that I may vote for someone that YOU don't approve of. Labour's love of democracy shines through.
It's a bit silly for Labour to effectively run an open primary and then complain when non-Labour supporters opt to take part.
I doubt they'll do it this way again. Still out of order to try and disrupt a democratic process for your own ends though. Just because it is easy to try and break something, that doesn't make it ok.
Isn't that what some Labour MPs did putting JC on the paper?
Arguably. I expect him to win FWIW. If members are foolish enough to vote for him so be it. I just take issue with non-members doing so for nefarious reasons. That's not an unreasonable position.
Ah, so the truth is out. It's that I may vote for someone that YOU don't approve of. Labour's love of democracy shines through.
It's a bit silly for Labour to effectively run an open primary and then complain when non-Labour supporters opt to take part.
I doubt they'll do it this way again. Still out of order to try and disrupt a democratic process for your own ends though. Just because it is easy to try and break something, that doesn't make it ok.
Isn't that what some Labour MPs did putting JC on the paper?
Arguably. I expect him to win FWIW. If members are foolish enough to vote for him so be it. I just take issue with non-members doing so for nefarious reasons. That's not an unreasonable position.
Ah, so the truth is out. It's that I may vote for someone that YOU don't approve of. Labour's love of democracy shines through.
Yeah, that's it. *gets the popcorn*
Yes, the popcorn will taste extra sweet when we elect Jezza the Great
If I could vote, I wouldn't vote for Trump because I've just been told he's an old fart. Would that anyway invalidate my vote because it's not a valid reason for choosing who to vote for?
It's a bit silly for Labour to effectively run an open primary and then complain when non-Labour supporters opt to take part.
I doubt they'll do it this way again. Still out of order to try and disrupt a democratic process for your own ends though. Just because it is easy to try and break something, that doesn't make it ok.
Isn't that what some Labour MPs did putting JC on the paper?
Arguably. I expect him to win FWIW. If members are foolish enough to vote for him so be it. I just take issue with non-members doing so for nefarious reasons. That's not an unreasonable position.
Ah, so the truth is out. It's that I may vote for someone that YOU don't approve of. Labour's love of democracy shines through.
Yeah, that's it. *gets the popcorn*
Yes, the popcorn will taste extra sweet when we elect Jezza the Great
I'm fine with whoever is elected by legitimate members. I find it sad that you think it is clever to taint an election. It's nothing to be proud of. I feel sorry for you that you are reduced to doing it. Take a look at yourself man. The Labour Party just lost the election badly and you feel the need to pretend you are a supporter in order to try and twist the knife for your own entertainment. And you see nothing wrong with the dishonest way you are going about it. And you've been found out. No wonder you're embarrassed. Bloody hell, I would be.
If I could vote, I wouldn't vote for Trump because I've just been told he's an old fart. Would that anyway invalidate my vote because it's not a valid reason for choosing who to vote for?
Reminds me of arguments the UK debates were a bad idea on the grounds such 'debates' are not good means for people to decide who to vote for, being nothing but cliches and pandering and such things, even though people decide to vote for all sorts of reasons, many of which may be quite stupid in the eyes of others. If anyone has ever been swayed by a billboard, that seems a poor method of deciding, but each to their own.
Personally, if I have no real concern about the outcome, or profit riding on it, I'd vote for what would be the more amusing result.
It's a bit silly for Labour to effectively run an open primary and then complain when non-Labour supporters opt to take part.
I doubt they'll do it this way again. Still out of order to try and disrupt a democratic process for your own ends though. Just because it is easy to try and break something, that doesn't make it ok.
Isn't that what some Labour MPs did putting JC on the paper?
Arguably. I expect him to win FWIW. If members are foolish enough to vote for him so be it. I just take issue with non-members doing so for nefarious reasons. That's not an unreasonable position.
Ah, so the truth is out. It's that I may vote for someone that YOU don't approve of. Labour's love of democracy shines through.
Yeah, that's it. *gets the popcorn*
Yes, the popcorn will taste extra sweet when we elect Jezza the Great
I'm fine with whoever is elected by legitimate members. I find it sad that you think it is clever to taint an election. It's nothing to be proud of. I feel sorry for you that you are reduced to doing it. Take a look at yourself man. The Labour Party just lost the election badly and you feel the need to pretend you are a supporter in order to try and twist the knife for your own entertainment. And you see nothing wrong with the dishonest way you are going about it. And you've been found out. No wonder you're embarrassed. Bloody hell, I would be.
My, you can almost hear the stamping of feet. Labour has turned its election into a circus so can hardly complain about the level of debate. Bring on the clowns!
It's a bit silly for Labour to effectively run an open primary and then complain when non-Labour supporters opt to take part.
I doubt they'll do it this way again. Still out of order to try and disrupt a democratic process for your own ends though. Just because it is easy to try and break something, that doesn't make it ok.
Isn't that what some Labour MPs did putting JC on the paper?
Arguably. I expect him to win FWIW. If members are foolish enough to vote for him so be it. I just take issue with non-members doing so for nefarious reasons. That's not an unreasonable position.
Ah, so the truth is out. It's that I may vote for someone that YOU don't approve of. Labour's love of democracy shines through.
Yeah, that's it. *gets the popcorn*
Yes, the popcorn will taste extra sweet when we elect Jezza the Great
I'm fine with whoever is elected by legitimate members. I find it sad that you think it is clever to taint an election. It's nothing to be proud of. I feel sorry for you that you are reduced to doing it. Take a look at yourself man. The Labour Party just lost the election badly and you feel the need to pretend you are a supporter in order to try and twist the knife for your own entertainment. And you see nothing wrong with the dishonest way you are going about it. And you've been found out. No wonder you're embarrassed. Bloody hell, I would be.
My, you can almost hear the stamping of feet. Labour has turned its election into a circus so can hardly complain about the level of debate. Bring on the clowns!
I'll repeat what I said below, I don't like anyone fucking with elections. On any side. And with that, goodnight.
It's a bit silly for Labour to effectively run an open primary and then complain when non-Labour supporters opt to take part.
I doubt they'll do it this way again. Still out of order to try and disrupt a democratic process for your own ends though. Just because it is easy to try and break something, that doesn't make it ok.
Isn't that what some Labour MPs did putting JC on the paper?
Arguably. I expect him to win FWIW. If members are foolish enough to vote for him so be it. I just take issue with non-members doing so for nefarious reasons. That's not an unreasonable position.
Ah, so the truth is out. It's that I may vote for someone that YOU don't approve of. Labour's love of democracy shines through.
Yeah, that's it. *gets the popcorn*
Yes, the popcorn will taste extra sweet when we elect Jezza the Great
I'm fine with whoever is elected by legitimate members. I find it sad that you think it is clever to taint an election. It's nothing to be proud of. I feel sorry for you that you are reduced to doing it. Take a look at yourself man. The Labour Party just lost the election badly and you feel the need to pretend you are a supporter in order to try and twist the knife for your own entertainment. And you see nothing wrong with the dishonest way you are going about it. And you've been found out. No wonder you're embarrassed. Bloody hell, I would be.
My, you can almost hear the stamping of feet. Labour has turned its election into a circus so can hardly complain about the level of debate. Bring on the clowns!
I'll repeat what I said below, I don't like anyone fucking with elections. On any side. And with that, goodnight.
You should appreciate the additional funding! Once the trade union bill passes will the pounds stretch to last until 2025?
Comments
Trump, Jeb Bush, Walker, Huckabee, Carson, Cruz, Rubio, Paul, Christie, Kasich
runners up -
Perry, Santorum, JIndal, Fiorina, Graham, Pataki, Gilmore
2) Corbyn
3) Cooper
Kendall can't win, but there's a very vague outside chance she could push either Cooper or Burnham to last.
This is the best tactical ballot right now !
I think one thing we are learning is that it is not clear what are Labour party values.
You have more hope in 'not a member of organisations opposed to Labour', but that arguably includes orgs seeking to manipulate and control the party such as Unite. Their strategy is explicit and has been leaked as we know.
The threat comes from skewed recruitment of Union members, Greens etc fellow travellers joining, and orgs with known entryist strategies.
Tories at play are just froth.
Democracy is a two way street. It behoves all of us to abide by the rules and not try and subvert it for our own means. Those principles don't change depending on the election we are engaging in (or pointedly, staying OUT of).
Have you ever met Hertsmere Pubgoer, Monty?
My only break is when i visit a medium with my daughter tomorrow.
Might ask her if Jezza will win!!
If Labour cannot work out how to elect its own leader then how can we expect it to run the country?
1) Burnham
2) Kendall
3) Corbyn
4) Cooper
Though Kendall has zero chance of beating Cooper or Burnham
But @Monty is free to try and play some Soviet era Political Commissaire and try and weed me out for having insufficient revolutionary thoughts or something I suppose.
A few years ago, my train from Leeds to Sheffield broke down in Barnsley, I had to spend an hour in Barnsley late on a Friday night, waiting for a lift.
I haven't been that scared since I nearly got mugged by some crackheads.
Honestly, Barnsley is such a dump, it could be twinned with anywhere in Essex.
This guy had it right
Barnsley's homesick striker, Macedonian Georgi Hristov, says he is finding it hard to get a girlfriend in England because local girls are not pretty and drink too much.
Hristov, 21, who joined Barnsley from Partizan Belgrade for £1.5m last summer, is reported to have told a Belgrade sports magazine: "I'm finding it difficult to find a girlfriend in Barnsley, or indeed settle into a decent way of life.
"The local girls are far uglier than the ones back in Belgrade or Skopje, the capital of Macedonia, where I come from.
"Our women are much prettier. Besides, they don't drink as much beer as the Barnsley girls which is something I don't like at all."
http://bbc.in/1UlM9PN
(NB. I have visited only two stations in Yorkshire: Sheffield and Leeds - also been on the Sheffield tram as far as the University station)
They always used new sheets
Donald Trump
Jeb Bush
Scott Walker
Ben Carson
Mike Huckabee
Ted Cruz
Marco Rubio
Rand Paul
Chris Christie
John Kasich
The Breakfast Club is about to start on Film 4!
The class 141s really are knackered.
Quicker walking from Sheffield
Actually over 20 minutes late....
Like I say I cannot get worked up over it (Labour's rules are overwhelmingly stupid) but its wrong and poor show defending it. By my reckoning its doubly wrong where you are actually a member of another party and triply wrong if that party is the sanctimonious LD party.
Of course you would.
I think I've been pretty restrained. I've done what I think is the right thing by trying to keep the election as honest as possible.
What's wrong with that?
If you were really smart you wouldn't have told me until you'd got the first payment, but Labour never do seem to understand financial stuff.
But thanks for the stuff through the post anyway.
You're the one pronouncing about 'subverting democracy' etc.
If I do or don't get a vote it will make the grande difference of sod all to me.
You're the one who's 'feeling good' about googling people, reading their twitter or PB feeds and sending emails, blah, blah, blah.
Who's bothered? heh.
I expect him to win FWIW.
If members are foolish enough to vote for him so be it.
I just take issue with non-members doing so for nefarious reasons.
That's not an unreasonable position.
She will make the early debate.
It's that I may vote for someone that YOU don't approve of.
Labour's love of democracy shines through.
I find it sad that you think it is clever to taint an election.
It's nothing to be proud of. I feel sorry for you that you are reduced to doing it.
Take a look at yourself man.
The Labour Party just lost the election badly and you feel the need to pretend you are a supporter in order to try and twist the knife for your own entertainment. And you see nothing wrong with the dishonest way you are going about it.
And you've been found out.
No wonder you're embarrassed. Bloody hell, I would be.
Personally, if I have no real concern about the outcome, or profit riding on it, I'd vote for what would be the more amusing result.
Good night all.
And with that, goodnight.