OT I've seen a couple of episodes of Talking Pictures [really old Parkies and other intv compilations on BBC2] and I'd forgotten this totally brilliant Gene Kelly scene. I know we've a few old musical comedy fans on here - thought you'd enjoy this reminder. Tap dancing on roller-skates.
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
I didn't ask whether you, or anyone else for that matter, disagreed with his reforms. I challenged you not on whether Gove had the right policies, but on whether he cared about young people.
What is it about you on the left that makes so many of you utterly incapable of understanding that people who advocate different solutions than those you advocate might care just as much, and be just as passionate about wanting to improve things, as you? It really is a most extraordinary blindness of the left.
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
I didn't ask whether you, or anyone else for that matter, disagreed with his reforms. I challenged you not on whether Gove had the right policies, but on whether he cared about young people.
What is it about you on the left that makes so many of you utterly incapable of understanding that people who advocate different solutions than those you advocate might care just as much, and be just as passionate about wanting to improve things, as you? It really is a most extraordinary blindness of the left.
I wouldn't suggest that no-one on the right cares. Cameron and Osborne plainly don't (but then there are a fair few Labour politicians who don't either) but perhaps IDS and Gove do. The problem for me is that those on the right who do appear to care tend to be rather scary zealots.
On topic, when did OGH join the Labour party? Has he given up on the Lib Dems?
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
I didn't ask whether you, or anyone else for that matter, disagreed with his reforms. I challenged you not on whether Gove had the right policies, but on whether he cared about young people.
What is it about you on the left that makes so many of you utterly incapable of understanding that people who advocate different solutions than those you advocate might care just as much, and be just as passionate about wanting to improve things, as you? It really is a most extraordinary blindness of the left.
Yes, I replied that he is an idealogue - Gove is far more interested in pursuing an ideological agenda in regard to education to education than caring about 'young people'. If he did care about young people, you'd wonder as to why so many young people oppose his reforms?
As for advocating different solutions, I have no issues with those who advocate different solutions. I do have issues with ideologues, who care about pursuing a blind ideological agenda first and foremost - on the left and the right.
Yes, I replied that he is an idealogue - Gove is far more interested in pursuing an ideological agenda in regard to education to education than caring about 'young people'. If he did care about young people, you'd wonder as to why so many young people oppose his reforms?
LOL! The left's bizarre 'logic' (if that's not too strong a word) laid bare.
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
I didn't ask whether you, or anyone else for that matter, disagreed with his reforms. I challenged you not on whether Gove had the right policies, but on whether he cared about young people.
What is it about you on the left that makes so many of you utterly incapable of understanding that people who advocate different solutions than those you advocate might care just as much, and be just as passionate about wanting to improve things, as you? It really is a most extraordinary blindness of the left.
Yes, I replied that he is an idealogue - Gove is far more interested in pursuing an ideological agenda in regard to education to education than caring about 'young people'. If he did care about young people, you'd wonder as to why so many young people oppose his reforms?
As for advocating different solutions, I have no issues with those who advocate different solutions. I do have issues with ideologues, who care about pursuing a blind ideological agenda first and foremost - on the left and the right.
You seem to be implying that schoolchildren should be setting education policy.. :cuckoo:
Yes, I replied that he is an idealogue - Gove is far more interested in pursuing an ideological agenda in regard to education to education than caring about 'young people'. If he did care about young people, you'd wonder as to why so many young people oppose his reforms?
LOL! The left's bizarre 'logic' (if that's not too strong a word) laid bare.
What it's true. The Conservatives claim to care about young people, those in poverty, etc yet these groups rarely ever vote Conservative. There's the option that all these groups are terribly misguided about what's best for them, but most groups do tend to vote in their own interest - and clearly these groups don't believe it's in their best interest to vote Conservative.
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
I didn't ask whether you, or anyone else for that matter, disagreed with his reforms. I challenged you not on whether Gove had the right policies, but on whether he cared about young people.
What is it about you on the left that makes so many of you utterly incapable of understanding that people who advocate different solutions than those you advocate might care just as much, and be just as passionate about wanting to improve things, as you? It really is a most extraordinary blindness of the left.
Yes, I replied that he is an idealogue - Gove is far more interested in pursuing an ideological agenda in regard to education to education than caring about 'young people'. If he did care about young people, you'd wonder as to why so many young people oppose his reforms?
As for advocating different solutions, I have no issues with those who advocate different solutions. I do have issues with ideologues, who care about pursuing a blind ideological agenda first and foremost - on the left and the right.
You seem to be implying that schoolchildren should be setting education policy.. :cuckoo:
No, just that if something was in their best interest, they would most likely be sympathetic to it.
Well, the government for a start. But I'm glad that both you and @kle4 know of at least some Tories who do care about young people in this country.
You are being totally idiotic.
Do you actually know any Conservatives? Or, failing that, have you read, for example, any speech by Michael Gove on education? Are you really so ludicrously blinded by partisan prejudice that you can, with a straight face, claim that he doesn't care about young people?
BIB: Yes.
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
Your evidence for that bold claim is opinion polls? The same ones which keep getting elections wrong? Not to mention that a policy's unpopularity is not proof of lack of caring about anything. I think your reference to Gove the ideologue is charmingly ironic.
I wouldn't suggest that no-one on the right cares. Cameron and Osborne plainly don't
Oh, for God's sake, what an utterly idiotic statement.
Why? I've seen no evidence from them that they are anything other than a pair of chancers who enjoy playing the political game. Even Osborne's friends would be hard pressed to declare him a man of principle. I've never seen a convincing explanation of what drove either of them into politics.
Well, the government for a start. But I'm glad that both you and @kle4 know of at least some Tories who do care about young people in this country.
You are being totally idiotic.
Do you actually know any Conservatives? Or, failing that, have you read, for example, any speech by Michael Gove on education? Are you really so ludicrously blinded by partisan prejudice that you can, with a straight face, claim that he doesn't care about young people?
BIB: Yes.
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
Your evidence for that bold claim is opinion polls? The same ones which keep getting elections wrong? Not to mention that a policy's unpopularity is not proof of lack of caring about anything. I think your reference to Gove the ideologue is charmingly ironic.
The same ones which Conservatives suddenly trust when it shows Jeremy Corbyn leading!
Disliking the Conservative party doesn't make you an idealogue, btw.
I see no-one is thinking of the obvious. This Tory entryism into Labour to sabotage the election will surely see lots of Labour supporters return the favour when the Tory leadership election comes along. Although being a less democratic party there's only the choice of two candidates.
It's strange. I don't seem to remember in 2001 Labour people signing up to the Tories to get IDS elected leader. And yet it's the left that is accused of being juvenile and needing to grow up.
The eligibility rules for the Tory leadership electorate require full membership (ie a cost far greater than £3) and at least one year having been a member (correct me if I'm wrong).
That's quite different than what Labour have, which is basically "£3 and you get to vote straightaway".
You seem to be implying that schoolchildren should be setting education policy.. :cuckoo:
No, just that if something was in their best interest, they would most likely be sympathetic to it.
And you're implying that their sympathy, or approval, is a necessary condition for any policy to pass the bar of your peculiar test. That means that they effectively set or at least veto policy, which is plainly bonkers.
What imbecile decided that this shambles was the ideal way to choose the Leader of the Opposition? Six more weeks of mind numbing, spadwonk babble and navel gazing, when what we really need is a competent opposition to to hold the government to account. Labour have let the country down badly. I genuinely hope they elect Corbyn, so that the resulting fracturing of the Labour party might evolve into something I can actually vote for.
Why? I've seen no evidence from them that they are anything other than a pair of chancers who enjoy playing the political game. Even Osborne's friends would be hard pressed to declare him a man of principle. I've never seen a convincing explanation of what drove either of them into politics.
The same as drives virtually all politicians to enter politics: an interest in politics and an ambition to improve the country.
This really isn't hard to understand, and the left would do itself a lot of good if it stopped assuming that people who disagree with it are malevolent, unprincipled or 'chancers'. You do get a few chancers in politics, but mostly as hangers-on towards the fag-end of periods when one party or the other is dominant for a long time.
You seem to be implying that schoolchildren should be setting education policy.. :cuckoo:
No, just that if something was in their best interest, they would most likely be sympathetic to it.
And you're implying that their sympathy, or approval, is a necessary condition for any policy to pass the bar of your peculiar test. That means that they effectively set or at least veto policy, which is plainly bonkers.
LOL, no. Children have no control over education policy so this discussion over setting/veto policies is rubbish. We talking about opinions.
But if something tends to be in your interest, yes usually you are sympathetic to it. Teenagers (the main people who will be politically aware of Gove's policies) aren't total idiots.
Well, the government for a start. But I'm glad that both you and @kle4 know of at least some Tories who do care about young people in this country.
You are being totally idiotic.
Do you actually know any Conservatives? Or, failing that, have you read, for example, any speech by Michael Gove on education? Are you really so ludicrously blinded by partisan prejudice that you can, with a straight face, claim that he doesn't care about young people?
BIB: Yes.
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
I don't have a view on his reforms, but since when is if people agree with a reform the sole measure to judge it by?
I see no-one is thinking of the obvious. This Tory entryism into Labour to sabotage the election will surely see lots of Labour supporters return the favour when the Tory leadership election comes along. Although being a less democratic party there's only the choice of two candidates.
It's strange. I don't seem to remember in 2001 Labour people signing up to the Tories to get IDS elected leader. And yet it's the left that is accused of being juvenile and needing to grow up.
Tbh, I doubt they will bother. But it seems odd that parties don't have rules excluding membership of other parties. In any reasonably arranged world, there would be a catch 22: Party A would expel any members who joined Party B, and Party B would refuse the application from said member of Party A.
The Conservatives have just announced an open primary to select the Tory candidate for Mayor of London, so presumably CCHQ is unfazed by a handful of Greens or Scots Nats voting.
Well, the government for a start. But I'm glad that both you and @kle4 know of at least some Tories who do care about young people in this country.
You are being totally idiotic.
Do you actually know any Conservatives? Or, failing that, have you read, for example, any speech by Michael Gove on education? Are you really so ludicrously blinded by partisan prejudice that you can, with a straight face, claim that he doesn't care about young people?
BIB: Yes.
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
I don't have a view on his reforms, but since when is if people agree with a reform the sole measure to judge it by?
It's just my own opinion, it's not an objective rule.
But if something tends to be in your interest, yes usually you are sympathetic to it. Teenagers (the main people who will be politically aware of Gove's policies) aren't total idiots.
Maybe they are not idiots. Maybe they oppose his reforms (I'm not sure that is true, actually, but let's assume it). Maybe they correctly identify that his policies won't work, or will make things worse.
Even if we grant all that, what on earth has it got to do with the question of Gove's motives, or whether he cares about young people?
Well, the government for a start. But I'm glad that both you and @kle4 know of at least some Tories who do care about young people in this country.
You are being totally idiotic.
Do you actually know any Conservatives? Or, failing that, have you read, for example, any speech by Michael Gove on education? Are you really so ludicrously blinded by partisan prejudice that you can, with a straight face, claim that he doesn't care about young people?
BIB: Yes.
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
Your evidence for that bold claim is opinion polls? The same ones which keep getting elections wrong? Not to mention that a policy's unpopularity is not proof of lack of caring about anything. I think your reference to Gove the ideologue is charmingly ironic.
The same ones which Conservatives suddenly trust when it shows Jeremy Corbyn leading!
I think it's more of a case that htese are the polls which are frightening the s***e out of you. I never had much doubt about the GE result - I knew Labour would not win.
Disliking the Conservative party doesn't make you an idealogue, btw.
Indeed not - it just makes you irrational and an idiot. Rather like claiming no young people vote Tory.
You seem to be implying that schoolchildren should be setting education policy.. :cuckoo:
No, just that if something was in their best interest, they would most likely be sympathetic to it.
And you're implying that their sympathy, or approval, is a necessary condition for any policy to pass the bar of your peculiar test. That means that they effectively set or at least veto policy, which is plainly bonkers.
LOL, no. Children have no control over education policy so this discussion over setting/veto policies is rubbish. We talking about opinions.
But if something tends to be in your interest, yes usually you are sympathetic to it. Teenagers (the main people who will be politically aware of Gove's policies) aren't total idiots.
You think teenagers are against Gove's reforms because they've used their intelligence to work out that it will affect their educational prospects?
Not because teachers say "it's Michael Gove's fault" every time they set extra homework?
Well, the government for a start. But I'm glad that both you and @kle4 know of at least some Tories who do care about young people in this country.
You are being totally idiotic.
Do you actually know any Conservatives? Or, failing that, have you read, for example, any speech by Michael Gove on education? Are you really so ludicrously blinded by partisan prejudice that you can, with a straight face, claim that he doesn't care about young people?
BIB: Yes.
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
Your evidence for that bold claim is opinion polls? The same ones which keep getting elections wrong? Not to mention that a policy's unpopularity is not proof of lack of caring about anything. I think your reference to Gove the ideologue is charmingly ironic.
The same ones which Conservatives suddenly trust when it shows Jeremy Corbyn leading!
I think it's more of a case that htese are the polls which are frightening the s***e out of you. I never had much doubt about the GE result - I knew Labour would not win.
Disliking the Conservative party doesn't make you an idealogue, btw.
Indeed not - it just makes you irrational and an idiot. Rather like claiming no young people vote Tory.
LOL! So you can't quite explain your discrepancy between believing polls when it suits you and when it doesn't?
I never claimed NO young person voted Tory, just that these groups as whole don't, and that it's rare that they do.
No need for insults, btw. It's not necessary to adopt the kind of angry tone you have done.
Mr. Stopper, imbecile? Surely you're not referring to Ed Miliband?
I think Ms. Apocalypse makes a fair point that younger people tend to be more leftish and less conservative. That doesn't, of course, mean the Conservatives aren't interested in what's best for whippersnappers.
My med school union was pretty apolitical, but Fox jr is doing a social science degree and his union is fairly political. Mostly on green, internationalist, feminist and LBGT issues though rather than party political. He likes Corbyn.
I'm not surprised - I get the feeling that's where student politics is at. Very few are wedged to a political party these days, although Greens tend to be quite vocal. Some of that would describe my politics - I'm pretty big on feminist and LBGT issues.
Interesting to hear your son likes Corbyn. I think among young people he's quite popular. I was talking to a friend on Friday, she's much more left-wing than I am, and she loves Corbyn (and actually thinks he can win an election).
I think Corbyn could get a lot more youngsters engaged in politics. He may recapture a lot of the Green vote and some of the CBAs.
Fox jr is more interested in the internationalist agenda. Form seeing Corbyn on Marr this morning I think Corbyn will be on the BOI side. He wants Europe to have more of a say in the social protection issues. Will not sit with the kippers. His young acolytes are pro EU too.
A friend of mine has just posted on Facebook that Corbyn is the only one who might make him vote Labour for the first time. He was a UKIP/Tory waverer in May....
Well, I might stick with Labour if Corbyn wins. If any of the three muppets win, I may go back to the Tories.
you are obviously one of the new classifications, a drowning voter or a lack of convictions voter
You seem to be implying that schoolchildren should be setting education policy.. :cuckoo:
No, just that if something was in their best interest, they would most likely be sympathetic to it.
And you're implying that their sympathy, or approval, is a necessary condition for any policy to pass the bar of your peculiar test. That means that they effectively set or at least veto policy, which is plainly bonkers.
LOL, no. Children have no control over education policy so this discussion over setting/veto policies is rubbish. We talking about opinions.
But if something tends to be in your interest, yes usually you are sympathetic to it. Teenagers (the main people who will be politically aware of Gove's policies) aren't total idiots.
You think teenagers are against Gove's reforms because they've used their intelligence to work out that it will affect their educational prospects?
Not because teachers say "it's Michael Gove's fault" every time they set extra homework?
Ok.. do you remember being a teenager?
I was a teenager only two years ago! Although I left school (finished my A-levels) in 2012.
Teenagers can use their intelligence to work whether something can improve their educational prospects or not. It's why teenagers do do homework, and many study and revise in the run-up to their exams, despite not not liking it, they know these things will help them in the long-run.
I was at school under the coalition from 2010-12, and in that time I never heard any teacher say setting extra homework was Gove's fault.
My med school union was pretty apolitical, but Fox jr is doing a social science degree and his union is fairly political. Mostly on green, internationalist, feminist and LBGT issues though rather than party political. He likes Corbyn.
I'm not surprised - I get the feeling that's where student politics is at. Very few are wedged to a political party these days, although Greens tend to be quite vocal. Some of that would describe my politics - I'm pretty big on feminist and LBGT issues.
Interesting to hear your son likes Corbyn. I think among young people he's quite popular. I was talking to a friend on Friday, she's much more left-wing than I am, and she loves Corbyn (and actually thinks he can win an election).
I think Corbyn could get a lot more youngsters engaged in politics. He may recapture a lot of the Green vote and some of the CBAs.
Fox jr is more interested in the internationalist agenda. Form seeing Corbyn on Marr this morning I think Corbyn will be on the BOI side. He wants Europe to have more of a say in the social protection issues. Will not sit with the kippers. His young acolytes are pro EU too.
A friend of mine has just posted on Facebook that Corbyn is the only one who might make him vote Labour for the first time. He was a UKIP/Tory waverer in May....
Well, I might stick with Labour if Corbyn wins. If any of the three muppets win, I may go back to the Tories.
you are obviously one of the new classification, a drowning voter?
I've always got the impression that Sunil prefers to defy classification.
But if something tends to be in your interest, yes usually you are sympathetic to it. Teenagers (the main people who will be politically aware of Gove's policies) aren't total idiots.
Maybe they are not idiots. Maybe they oppose his reforms (I'm not sure that is true, actually, but let's assume it). Maybe they correctly identify that his policies won't work, or will make things worse.
Even if we grant all that, what on earth has it got to do with the question of Gove's motives, or whether he cares about young people?
On his motives, I've said I think he's an idealogue - i.e. far more interested in pursuing an ideaological agenda on education than anything else.
Well, the government for a start. But I'm glad that both you and @kle4 know of at least some Tories who do care about young people in this country.
You are being totally idiotic.
Do you actually know any Conservatives? Or, failing that, have you read, for example, any speech by Michael Gove on education? Are you really so ludicrously blinded by partisan prejudice that you can, with a straight face, claim that he doesn't care about young people?
BIB: Yes.
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
Your evidence for that bold claim is opinion polls? The same ones which keep getting elections wrong? Not to mention that a policy's unpopularity is not proof of lack of caring about anything. I think your reference to Gove the ideologue is charmingly ironic.
The same ones which Conservatives suddenly trust when it shows Jeremy Corbyn leading!
I think it's more of a case that htese are the polls which are frightening the s***e out of you. I never had much doubt about the GE result - I knew Labour would not win.
Disliking the Conservative party doesn't make you an idealogue, btw.
Indeed not - it just makes you irrational and an idiot. Rather like claiming no young people vote Tory.
LOL! So you can't quite explain your discrepancy between believing polls when it suits you and when it doesn't?
I never claimed NO young person voted Tory, just that these groups as whole don't, and that it's rare that they do.
No need for insults, btw. It's not necessary to adopt the kind of angry tone you have done.
You're entirely incorrect. Vast numbers of young people always vote Tory in GEs. You need to get out more.
You seem to be implying that schoolchildren should be setting education policy.. :cuckoo:
No, just that if something was in their best interest, they would most likely be sympathetic to it.
And you're implying that their sympathy, or approval, is a necessary condition for any policy to pass the bar of your peculiar test. That means that they effectively set or at least veto policy, which is plainly bonkers.
LOL, no. Children have no control over education policy so this discussion over setting/veto policies is rubbish. We talking about opinions.
But if something tends to be in your interest, yes usually you are sympathetic to it. Teenagers (the main people who will be politically aware of Gove's policies) aren't total idiots.
You think teenagers are against Gove's reforms because they've used their intelligence to work out that it will affect their educational prospects?
Not because teachers say "it's Michael Gove's fault" every time they set extra homework?
Ok.. do you remember being a teenager?
I was a teenager only two years ago! Although I left school (finished my A-levels) in 2012.
Teenagers can use their intelligence to work whether something can improve their educational prospects or not. It's why teenagers do do homework, and many study and revise in the run-up to their exams, despite not not liking it, they know these things will help them in the long-run.
I was at school under the coalition from 2010-12, and in that time I never heard any teacher say setting extra homework was Gove's fault.
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
I didn't ask whether you, or anyone else for that matter, disagreed with his reforms. I challenged you not on whether Gove had the right policies, but on whether he cared about young people.
What is it about you on the left that makes so many of you utterly incapable of understanding that people who advocate different solutions than those you advocate might care just as much, and be just as passionate about wanting to improve things, as you? It really is a most extraordinary blindness of the left.
I don't doubt what you say Richard. Right wing ideologues believe their own propaganda. But tell me this, why are right wing politics almost alway (and I mean always) aimed at making rich people richer at the expense of poor people?
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
I didn't ask whether you, or anyone else for that matter, disagreed with his reforms. I challenged you not on whether Gove had the right policies, but on whether he cared about young people.
What is it about you on the left that makes so many of you utterly incapable of understanding that people who advocate different solutions than those you advocate might care just as much, and be just as passionate about wanting to improve things, as you? It really is a most extraordinary blindness of the left.
I don't doubt what you say Richard. Right wing ideologues believe their own propaganda. But tell me this, why are right wing politics almost alway (and I mean always) aimed at making rich people richer at the expense of poor people?
Labour set to elect either a joke or a wingnut. The good news has just kept coming since May...
Whoever wins, they're between a rock and a hard place.
If they don't look like making 100 gains in 2020, the spectre of the SNP tail wagging the UK dog will do for them again, just like in 2015...
I suppose this is an argument for Corbyn: There's no point annoying the base and losing the left to the Greens or whoever if the centrists aren't going to vote for you because they thing the SNP would make them do left-wing things anyway.
Yes, the choice is between extreme wings.
Either Left enough to kill the SNP, or Right enough to sweep England without the need for Scotland.
While keeping the party together, whichever wins...
To win it actually needs to do both ie win at least 80-85 seats from the Tories in England and Wales and at least 10 from the SNP in Scotland, if it does the former but not the latter it may have a chance of a deal with the LDs if Farron wins back some seats from the Tories too
Trying to do both will probably result in failure of both...
Not necessarily, although it should certainly focus on England and Wales and winning back Tories it is not impossible Labour could win back 10 seats from the SNP too (Labour do not need to win back even half the seats they lost to the SNP). Corbyn would be the only candidate who could really eat into the SNP total in the central belt, but he would likely turn off England and Wales
Corbyn may well be audacious enough to have a formal electoral pact with the SNP. Devo max but strong representation at Westminster.
If Labour elect Corbyn they will not be doing so to have pacts with the SNP but to kill the SNP in its former Scottish heartlands
You're entirely incorrect. Vast numbers of young people always vote Tory in GEs. You need to get out more.
Not really. Only 43% of young people even turned out to vote - that means a vast majority of young people didn't even vote, let alone a vast amount of them voting Tory. Out of that 43%, as far as I recall 30% - 35% of voted Tory. So we aren't looking at vast numbers here, more a minority of young people.
You seem to be implying that schoolchildren should be setting education policy.. :cuckoo:
No, just that if something was in their best interest, they would most likely be sympathetic to it.
And you're implying that their sympathy, or approval, is a necessary condition for any policy to pass the bar of your peculiar test. That means that they effectively set or at least veto policy, which is plainly bonkers.
LOL, no. Children have no control over education policy so this discussion over setting/veto policies is rubbish. We talking about opinions.
But if something tends to be in your interest, yes usually you are sympathetic to it. Teenagers (the main people who will be politically aware of Gove's policies) aren't total idiots.
You think teenagers are against Gove's reforms because they've used their intelligence to work out that it will affect their educational prospects?
Not because teachers say "it's Michael Gove's fault" every time they set extra homework?
Ok.. do you remember being a teenager?
I was a teenager only two years ago! Although I left school (finished my A-levels) in 2012.
Teenagers can use their intelligence to work whether something can improve their educational prospects or not. It's why teenagers do do homework, and many study and revise in the run-up to their exams, despite not not liking it, they know these things will help them in the long-run.
I was at school under the coalition from 2010-12, and in that time I never heard any teacher say setting extra homework was Gove's fault.
I've tutored GCSE and A level students in the last five years who have passed on exactly that from their teachers so I guess there's a spectrum of experience for school kids.
In what way specifically do you think Gove affected your prospects during those two years?
A minority of several millions - 30-35% is pretty vast. And since everyone eventually gets old we can see the pattern that political wisdom is acquired as they get older and then vote Tory in even vaster numbers
She is very smart, lucid and has far more confidence than I ever did at 20 years old.
However, she can sound overly earnest, and, at times, come across as hectoring. Her delivery is also flat, monotonous and full of glottal stops.
She also looks about 15 years older than she is. If I were close to her, I would worry about her long-term health and diet.
I think criticising a 20 year old MP for sounding 'overly earnest' is a rather ridiculous complaint. If an MP can't be earnest at 20 what hope is there for the rest of the old lags?
I don't trust anyone at any age with such fervent belief in their own opinions that it's devoid of any subtext, reflection or humour. In fact, I never trust anyone without a sense of humour.
Shami Chakrabarti is another one I feel the same way about, despite having strong sympathies most of the time with what she's saying.
The woman's an idiot. She has a superficial understanding of liberalism but has not thought deeply (or at all, IMO) about the proper balance of security and liberty, particularly when the latter is threatened by some very intolerant forces using some of liberal's own tenets ("tolerance") to advance its own agenda. Her attachment to liberal principles is pretty skin deep e.g. over Geert Wilders being banned from this country when a democratically elected MP in Holland and her judgment over Libya and the LSE was appalling. At a time when we need an intelligent and thoughtful advocate for liberalism - in the truest and widest sense of the word - and what it means for ordinary people she has failed, contenting herself with uttering the same jejeune and superficial comments. She is at least an advocate of sorts for civil liberties but has not, intellectually, moved on from what she learnt at university. Liberty - both the organisation and the concept - deserve better.
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
I didn't ask whether you, or anyone else for that matter, disagreed with his reforms. I challenged you not on whether Gove had the right policies, but on whether he cared about young people.
What is it about you on the left that makes so many of you utterly incapable of understanding that people who advocate different solutions than those you advocate might care just as much, and be just as passionate about wanting to improve things, as you? It really is a most extraordinary blindness of the left.
I don't doubt what you say Richard. Right wing ideologues believe their own propaganda. But tell me this, why are right wing politics almost alway (and I mean always) aimed at making rich people richer at the expense of poor people?
Right wing politics make everyone richer, and the rich relatively richer compared to the poor. Left wing politics make everyone poorer but at least it narrows the gap a bit.
Which side cares about the poor, the absolutists or the relativists?
Toby Perkins @tobyperkinsmp 2h2 hours ago 65 defeated Labour PPC's asked who they want as leader- choose @LizforLeader -clear she's Labour's best prospect.
You seem to be implying that schoolchildren should be setting education policy.. :cuckoo:
No, just that if something was in their best interest, they would most likely be sympathetic to it.
And you're implying that their sympathy, or approval, is a necessary condition for any policy to pass the bar of your peculiar test. That means that they effectively set or at least veto policy, which is plainly bonkers.
LOL, no. Children have no control over education policy so this discussion over setting/veto policies is rubbish. We talking about opinions.
But if something tends to be in your interest, yes usually you are sympathetic to it. Teenagers (the main people who will be politically aware of Gove's policies) aren't total idiots.
You think teenagers are against Gove's reforms because they've used their intelligence to work out that it will affect their educational prospects?
Not because teachers say "it's Michael Gove's fault" every time they set extra homework?
Ok.. do you remember being a teenager?
I was a teenager only two years ago! Although I left school (finished my A-levels) in 2012.
Teenagers can use their intelligence to work whether something can improve their educational prospects or not. It's why teenagers do do homework, and many study and revise in the run-up to their exams, despite not not liking it, they know these things will help them in the long-run.
I was at school under the coalition from 2010-12, and in that time I never heard any teacher say setting extra homework was Gove's fault.
I've tutored GCSE and A level students in the last five years who have passed on exactly that from their teachers so I guess there's a spectrum of experience for school kids.
In what way specifically do you think Gove affected your prospects during those two years?
I don't think Gove affected my prospects much either way. By the time the coalition came in, I was already going my GCSES, and his changes in regard to A-Levels (such as doing the exam which counts towards your overall A-Level grade in two years time as opposed to an exam each year) haven't kicked in yet.
Toby Perkins @tobyperkinsmp 2h2 hours ago 65 defeated Labour PPC's asked who they want as leader- choose @LizforLeader -clear she's Labour's best prospect.
I wouldn't suggest that no-one on the right cares. Cameron and Osborne plainly don't
Oh, for God's sake, what an utterly idiotic statement.
Why? The most cynical part of Camborne politics is the courting of the elder vote at the expense of attacking younger people who do not vote. Do you really believe that Camborne are in this business to protect elder people's rights and entitlements virtually to the exclusion of everything else.
What about Camborne cynical exploitation of Europe. They have no intention of leaving Europe and have cynically created this referendum debate for political aims, not principle.
Cameron cringeworthingly exploited the death of his child for political ends. If he is capable of that he is capable of anything.
Brown acted often brazenly politically- but at least he had principles. What are the principles of Camborne? They are a pair of cynical delinquents, public school oafs, yobs and louts, people without principle or character who make my skin crawl.
Gove is different. He is an ideologue and wants to try out new ideas. I like him for that.
Toby Perkins @tobyperkinsmp 2h2 hours ago 65 defeated Labour PPC's asked who they want as leader- choose @LizforLeader -clear she's Labour's best prospect.
Hmm Losers for Liz
LOL. And in any case, 65 out of the 400-odd defeated Labour candidates is hardly that impressive a tally.
I actually quite admire Liz's team's chutzpah at still claiming she is the candidate who the public would like best, when that IPSOS-MORI public poll the other day placed her last (behind even Corbyn).
You seem to be implying that schoolchildren should be setting education policy.. :cuckoo:
No, just that if something was in their best interest, they would most likely be sympathetic to it.
And you're implying that their sympathy, or approval, is a necessary condition for any policy to pass the bar of your peculiar test. That means that they effectively set or at least veto policy, which is plainly bonkers.
LOL, no. Children have no control over education policy so this discussion over setting/veto policies is rubbish. We talking about opinions.
But if something tends to be in your interest, yes usually you are sympathetic to it. Teenagers (the main people who will be politically aware of Gove's policies) aren't total idiots.
You think teenagers are against Gove's reforms because they've used their intelligence to work out that it will affect their educational prospects?
Not because teachers say "it's Michael Gove's fault" every time they set extra homework?
Ok.. do you remember being a teenager?
I was a teenager only two years ago! Although I left school (finished my A-levels) in 2012.
Teenagers can use their intelligence to work whether something can improve their educational prospects or not. It's why teenagers do do homework, and many study and revise in the run-up to their exams, despite not not liking it, they know these things will help them in the long-run.
I was at school under the coalition from 2010-12, and in that time I never heard any teacher say setting extra homework was Gove's fault.
Just for anecdata only - Times readers think she's the only candidate worth a candle as she's got a bit of spunk for not falling over to the Left and saying electable things.
Burham and Cooper don't even register, Corbyn is a source of great amusement/horror.
If Labour are going to reclaim the centre ground - Liz or someone like her is required - unless of course the UK turns into Venezuela before 2020.
Toby Perkins @tobyperkinsmp 2h2 hours ago 65 defeated Labour PPC's asked who they want as leader- choose @LizforLeader -clear she's Labour's best prospect.
Hmm Losers for Liz
LOL. And in any case, 65 out of the 400-odd defeated Labour candidates is hardly that impressive a tally.
I actually quite admire Liz's team's chutzpah at still claiming she is the candidate who the public would like best, when that IPSOS-MORI public poll the other day placed her last (behind even Corbyn).
I've never thought of flibbertigibbet as a young thing - more feckless, unreliable and a bit of a manipulator. Usually female. But I can see how the traits tend to associate with 20-somethings.
A question: when CLP tallies are reported they are often less than 50-60 votes all told. Are the number of CLP members rearly that small, or do very few bother taking part? TIA.
Just for anecdata only - Times readers think she's the only candidate worth a candle as she's got a bit of spunk for not falling over to the Left and saying electable things.
Burham and Cooper don't even register, Corbyn is a source of great amusement/horror.
If Labour are going to reclaim the centre ground - Liz or someone like her is required - unless of course the UK turns into Venezuela before 2020.
Toby Perkins @tobyperkinsmp 2h2 hours ago 65 defeated Labour PPC's asked who they want as leader- choose @LizforLeader -clear she's Labour's best prospect.
Hmm Losers for Liz
LOL. And in any case, 65 out of the 400-odd defeated Labour candidates is hardly that impressive a tally.
I actually quite admire Liz's team's chutzpah at still claiming she is the candidate who the public would like best, when that IPSOS-MORI public poll the other day placed her last (behind even Corbyn).
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
I didn't ask whether you, or anyone else for that matter, disagreed with his reforms. I challenged you not on whether Gove had the right policies, but on whether he cared about young people.
What is it about you on the left that makes so many of you utterly incapable of understanding that people who advocate different solutions than those you advocate might care just as much, and be just as passionate about wanting to improve things, as you? It really is a most extraordinary blindness of the left.
I don't doubt what you say Richard. Right wing ideologues believe their own propaganda. But tell me this, why are right wing politics almost alway (and I mean always) aimed at making rich people richer at the expense of poor people?
Evidence????
Are you taking the piss Felix?
Every piece of progressive legislation has to be enacted by the left by spilling blood sweat and tears, and then, and only then gets reluctantly picked up by the right for political ends because they have to. From the health service, to the welfare state, minimum wage, climate change, free museums, equalities, disabilities, tax credits, housing, environment legislation, animal welfare and on and on and ariston.
I really can't think of one single thing post second world war the right has done on their own initiative to exclusively help the poor, the environment, or any other marginal group. They have done everything with their arm twisted around their backs.
Just for anecdata only - Times readers think she's the only candidate worth a candle as she's got a bit of spunk for not falling over to the Left and saying electable things.
Burham and Cooper don't even register, Corbyn is a source of great amusement/horror.
If Labour are going to reclaim the centre ground - Liz or someone like her is required - unless of course the UK turns into Venezuela before 2020.
Toby Perkins @tobyperkinsmp 2h2 hours ago 65 defeated Labour PPC's asked who they want as leader- choose @LizforLeader -clear she's Labour's best prospect.
Hmm Losers for Liz
LOL. And in any case, 65 out of the 400-odd defeated Labour candidates is hardly that impressive a tally.
I actually quite admire Liz's team's chutzpah at still claiming she is the candidate who the public would like best, when that IPSOS-MORI public poll the other day placed her last (behind even Corbyn).
A minority of several millions - 30-35% is pretty vast. And since everyone eventually gets old we can see the pattern that political wisdom is acquired as they get older and then vote Tory in even vaster numbers
Millions! - According to British Future, 3.3m young people were eligible to vote. On a 43% turnout that's less than half of that figure. That means that the amount of young people voting Tory certainly isn't in the several millions.
As for older voters, well I guess you could say people become more fearful of change, and that's partly a reason for conservative attitudes among those 60+.
Toby Perkins @tobyperkinsmp 2h2 hours ago 65 defeated Labour PPC's asked who they want as leader- choose @LizforLeader -clear she's Labour's best prospect.
Hmm Losers for Liz
LOL. And in any case, 65 out of the 400-odd defeated Labour candidates is hardly that impressive a tally.
I actually quite admire Liz's team's chutzpah at still claiming she is the candidate who the public would like best, when that IPSOS-MORI public poll the other day placed her last (behind even Corbyn).
Less than 5% of CLP nominations 14 of 310 and yet still she is " best chance" #LosersforLiz
IIRC it's mentioned in the STimes today as a quote from an unnamed Labour MP that CLP memberships have doubled to 75ish and half are new faces/known Other Party lefties.
A question: when CLP tallies are reported they are often less than 50-60 votes all told. Are the number of CLP members rearly that small, or do very few bother taking part? TIA.
I did do English at school (I even did at A-level!) - it was never a term that came up, ever. If you ask most young people I guarantee you they wouldn't have heard of the term.
Toby Perkins @tobyperkinsmp 2h2 hours ago 65 defeated Labour PPC's asked who they want as leader- choose @LizforLeader -clear she's Labour's best prospect.
Hmm Losers for Liz
LOL. And in any case, 65 out of the 400-odd defeated Labour candidates is hardly that impressive a tally.
I actually quite admire Liz's team's chutzpah at still claiming she is the candidate who the public would like best, when that IPSOS-MORI public poll the other day placed her last (behind even Corbyn).
Michael Gove is just an idealogue, tbh. For all this 'he cares about young people' there are more young people than not who disagree with his reforms.
I didn't ask whether you, or anyone else for that matter, disagreed with his reforms. I challenged you not on whether Gove had the right policies, but on whether he cared about young people.
What is it about you on the left that makes so many of you utterly incapable of understanding that people who advocate different solutions than those you advocate might care just as much, and be just as passionate about wanting to improve things, as you? It really is a most extraordinary blindness of the left.
I don't doubt what you say Richard. Right wing ideologues believe their own propaganda. But tell me this, why are right wing politics almost alway (and I mean always) aimed at making rich people richer at the expense of poor people?
Evidence????
Are you taking the piss Felix?
Every piece of progressive legislation has to be enacted by the left by spilling blood sweat and tears, and then, and only then gets reluctantly picked up by the right for political ends because they have to. From the health service, to the welfare state, minimum wage, climate change, free museums, equalities, disabilities, tax credits, housing, environment legislation, animal welfare and on and on and ariston.
I really can't think of one single thing post second world war the right has done on their own initiative to exclusively help the poor, the environment, or any other marginal group. They have done everything with their arm twisted around their backs.
Gay marriage? Joining the EU? Providing refuge to the Ugandan Asians?
But if something tends to be in your interest, yes usually you are sympathetic to it. Teenagers (the main people who will be politically aware of Gove's policies) aren't total idiots.
Maybe they are not idiots. Maybe they oppose his reforms (I'm not sure that is true, actually, but let's assume it). Maybe they correctly identify that his policies won't work, or will make things worse.
Even if we grant all that, what on earth has it got to do with the question of Gove's motives, or whether he cares about young people?
On his motives, I've said I think he's an idealogue - i.e. far more interested in pursuing an ideaological agenda on education than anything else.
You are upsetting the old farts, they think they are very clever so you will now be attacked for being young and stupid
A minority of several millions - 30-35% is pretty vast. And since everyone eventually gets old we can see the pattern that political wisdom is acquired as they get older and then vote Tory in even vaster numbers
Millions! - According to British Future, 3.3m young people were eligible to vote. On a 43% turnout that's less than half of that figure. That means that the amount of young people voting Tory certainly isn't in the several millions.
As for older voters, well I guess you could say people become more fearful of change, and that's partly a reason for conservative attitudes among those 60+.
Older people vote Tory, because with age comes wisdom.
Just for anecdata only - Times readers think she's the only candidate worth a candle as she's got a bit of spunk for not falling over to the Left and saying electable things.
Burham and Cooper don't even register, Corbyn is a source of great amusement/horror.
If Labour are going to reclaim the centre ground - Liz or someone like her is required - unless of course the UK turns into Venezuela before 2020.
Toby Perkins @tobyperkinsmp 2h2 hours ago 65 defeated Labour PPC's asked who they want as leader- choose @LizforLeader -clear she's Labour's best prospect.
Hmm Losers for Liz
LOL. And in any case, 65 out of the 400-odd defeated Labour candidates is hardly that impressive a tally.
I actually quite admire Liz's team's chutzpah at still claiming she is the candidate who the public would like best, when that IPSOS-MORI public poll the other day placed her last (behind even Corbyn).
If your experience is representative of a well educated 20-something, it's interesting how languages develop and what were commonly known words for people in their 40s+ are no longer on the radar.
Are your parents quite young? I can imagine that being a factor as well.
I did do English at school (I even did at A-level!) - it was never a term that came up, ever. If you ask most young people I guarantee you they wouldn't have heard of the term.
@foxinsoxuk Civil Partnerships were implemented under Labour, the precursor to Gay Marriage. Plus, the Left has traditionally campaigned for Gay Rights.
A minority of several millions - 30-35% is pretty vast. And since everyone eventually gets old we can see the pattern that political wisdom is acquired as they get older and then vote Tory in even vaster numbers
Millions! - According to British Future, 3.3m young people were eligible to vote. On a 43% turnout that's less than half of that figure. That means that the amount of young people voting Tory certainly isn't in the several millions.
As for older voters, well I guess you could say people become more fearful of change, and that's partly a reason for conservative attitudes among those 60+.
Older people vote Tory, because with age comes wisdom.
Having talked to some older people that's not quite true. Some are wise...others....hmm, not really.
A minority of several millions - 30-35% is pretty vast. And since everyone eventually gets old we can see the pattern that political wisdom is acquired as they get older and then vote Tory in even vaster numbers
Millions! - According to British Future, 3.3m young people were eligible to vote. On a 43% turnout that's less than half of that figure. That means that the amount of young people voting Tory certainly isn't in the several millions.
As for older voters, well I guess you could say people become more fearful of change, and that's partly a reason for conservative attitudes among those 60+.
I thought you were talking of all elections when you said they hardly ever vote Tory. Over all elections many millions of young Tory voters. Always have been and no doubt always will be. As for non-voters - why assume they're hostile - probably they're just very content. Just my opinion
You might say fear of change among older voters motivates them indeed. Of course you'd be wrong in my opinion.
A minority of several millions - 30-35% is pretty vast. And since everyone eventually gets old we can see the pattern that political wisdom is acquired as they get older and then vote Tory in even vaster numbers
Millions! - According to British Future, 3.3m young people were eligible to vote. On a 43% turnout that's less than half of that figure. That means that the amount of young people voting Tory certainly isn't in the several millions.
As for older voters, well I guess you could say people become more fearful of change, and that's partly a reason for conservative attitudes among those 60+.
Older people vote Tory, because with age comes wisdom.
Older people vote Tory, because with age comes benefits much more generous than we can afford but who cares only a few years to live!!
If your experience is representative of a well educated 20-something, it's interesting how languages develop and what were commonly known words for people in their 40s+ are no longer on the radar.
Are your parents quite young? I can imagine that being a factor as well.
My parents are in their early 50s! So they are pretty old.
It's quite simple to work out why for instance student fees were chosen to get hiked over say ending the triple lock, old people get out and vote !
As I said below Pulps, cynical politics. Like the proposed Euro referendum. Or trying to get hunting reintroduced on the backend of an hours vote. Or trying to get the speaker kicked out on some bully boy, public school plot hatched up at the end of term.
But what do you expect from some Bullingdon lowlife yob who exploited the death of his child during a TV debate?
@foxinsoxuk Civil Partnerships were implemented under Labour, the precursor to Gay Marriage. Plus, the Left has traditionally campaigned for Gay Rights.
A minority of several millions - 30-35% is pretty vast. And since everyone eventually gets old we can see the pattern that political wisdom is acquired as they get older and then vote Tory in even vaster numbers
Millions! - According to British Future, 3.3m young people were eligible to vote. On a 43% turnout that's less than half of that figure. That means that the amount of young people voting Tory certainly isn't in the several millions.
As for older voters, well I guess you could say people become more fearful of change, and that's partly a reason for conservative attitudes among those 60+.
Older people vote Tory, because with age comes wisdom.
Having talked to some older people that's not quite true. Some are wise...others....hmm, not really.
Of course you must be talking to the older Lab/LD/SNP voters. Yeah I get you now.
A minority of several millions - 30-35% is pretty vast. And since everyone eventually gets old we can see the pattern that political wisdom is acquired as they get older and then vote Tory in even vaster numbers
Millions! - According to British Future, 3.3m young people were eligible to vote. On a 43% turnout that's less than half of that figure. That means that the amount of young people voting Tory certainly isn't in the several millions.
As for older voters, well I guess you could say people become more fearful of change, and that's partly a reason for conservative attitudes among those 60+.
Older people vote Tory, because with age comes wisdom.
Having talked to some older people that's not quite true. Some are wise...others....hmm, not really.
Perhaps I should have said: with age comes experience of Labour governments.
But if something tends to be in your interest, yes usually you are sympathetic to it. Teenagers (the main people who will be politically aware of Gove's policies) aren't total idiots.
Maybe they are not idiots. Maybe they oppose his reforms (I'm not sure that is true, actually, but let's assume it). Maybe they correctly identify that his policies won't work, or will make things worse.
Even if we grant all that, what on earth has it got to do with the question of Gove's motives, or whether he cares about young people?
On his motives, I've said I think he's an idealogue - i.e. far more interested in pursuing an ideaological agenda on education than anything else.
You are upsetting the old farts, they think they are very clever so you will now be attacked for being young and stupid
It's quite simple to work out why for instance student fees were chosen to get hiked over say ending the triple lock, old people get out and vote !
As I said below Pulps, cynical politics. Like the proposed Euro referendum. Or trying to get hunting reintroduced on the backend of an hours vote. Or trying to get the speaker kicked out on some bully boy, public school plot hatched up at the end of term.
But what do you expect from some Bullingdon lowlife yob who exploited the death of his child during a TV debate?
I see the GE result is still quite an open wound - best not to put so much vinegar on it old chap.
Toby Perkins @tobyperkinsmp 2h2 hours ago 65 defeated Labour PPC's asked who they want as leader- choose @LizforLeader -clear she's Labour's best prospect.
Hmm Losers for Liz
I guess it's too subtle for you.
Guess so.
I wasn't very subtle when I spoke to my MP about his campaign organiser role for Kendall either TBF.
Perhaps I should have said: with age comes experience of Labour governments.
I had many conflicting thoughts on what was going to happen at the election, but I did wonder if it was going to be a case of "every (other?) generation needs to learn why we don't let the Left run the country".
Comments
The genre changes are immense - when this stuff was popular, 3% of movies were *action* - now it's 60% accordingly to IMDb. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZYS2rKh01U?t=2m0s
What is it about you on the left that makes so many of you utterly incapable of understanding that people who advocate different solutions than those you advocate might care just as much, and be just as passionate about wanting to improve things, as you? It really is a most extraordinary blindness of the left.
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/hungary-post-race-analysis.html
On topic, when did OGH join the Labour party? Has he given up on the Lib Dems?
As for advocating different solutions, I have no issues with those who advocate different solutions. I do have issues with ideologues, who care about pursuing a blind ideological agenda first and foremost - on the left and the right.
Disliking the Conservative party doesn't make you an idealogue, btw.
That's quite different than what Labour have, which is basically "£3 and you get to vote straightaway".
Six more weeks of mind numbing, spadwonk babble and navel gazing, when what we really need is a competent opposition to to hold the government to account. Labour have let the country down badly.
I genuinely hope they elect Corbyn, so that the resulting fracturing of the Labour party might evolve into something I can actually vote for.
This really isn't hard to understand, and the left would do itself a lot of good if it stopped assuming that people who disagree with it are malevolent, unprincipled or 'chancers'. You do get a few chancers in politics, but mostly as hangers-on towards the fag-end of periods when one party or the other is dominant for a long time.
We talking about opinions.
But if something tends to be in your interest, yes usually you are sympathetic to it. Teenagers (the main people who will be politically aware of Gove's policies) aren't total idiots.
The Conservatives have just announced an open primary to select the Tory candidate for Mayor of London, so presumably CCHQ is unfazed by a handful of Greens or Scots Nats voting.
Even if we grant all that, what on earth has it got to do with the question of Gove's motives, or whether he cares about young people?
Not because teachers say "it's Michael Gove's fault" every time they set extra homework?
Ok.. do you remember being a teenager?
I never claimed NO young person voted Tory, just that these groups as whole don't, and that it's rare that they do.
No need for insults, btw. It's not necessary to adopt the kind of angry tone you have done.
I think Ms. Apocalypse makes a fair point that younger people tend to be more leftish and less conservative. That doesn't, of course, mean the Conservatives aren't interested in what's best for whippersnappers.
Teenagers can use their intelligence to work whether something can improve their educational prospects or not. It's why teenagers do do homework, and many study and revise in the run-up to their exams, despite not not liking it, they know these things will help them in the long-run.
I was at school under the coalition from 2010-12, and in that time I never heard any teacher say setting extra homework was Gove's fault.
Mr. Tyson, is increasing the personal allowance not helping the poor?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGF6bOi1NfA
In what way specifically do you think Gove affected your prospects during those two years?
GOP Caucus
Iowa
Walker 19
Trump 17
Bush 12
GOP primary
New Hampshire
Trump 21
Bush 14
Walker 12
Net favourables
Iowa
Sanders +3 (30 percent/27 percent)
Rubio -1 (31 percent/32 percent)
Walker -1 (30 percent/31 percent)
Bush -12 (34 percent/46 percent)
Clinton -19 (37/56 percent)
Trump -28 (32 percent/60 percent)
New Hampshire:
Sanders +12 (41 percent/29 percent)
Bush -5 (40 percent/45 percent)
Walker -6 (28 percent/34 percent)
Rubio -6 (28 percent/34 percent)
Clinton -20 (37 percent/57 percent)
Trump -40 (27 percent/67 percent)
http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/nbc-marist-polls-show-donald-trump-running-strong-iowa-nh-n398401
http://thaddeuswhite.weebly.com/writing-blog/unnecessarily-epic-thaddeus-and-the-demon
Only a few hundred words.
Which side cares about the poor, the absolutists or the relativists?
65 defeated Labour PPC's asked who they want as leader- choose @LizforLeader -clear she's Labour's best prospect.
Hmm Losers for Liz
"Mr. Felix, someone being (especially for the site) relatively younger doesn't make their opinion less valid."
Nor did anyone say so but thank you so much for the disinterested guidance.
Post of the day!
What about Camborne cynical exploitation of Europe. They have no intention of leaving Europe and have cynically created this referendum debate for political aims, not principle.
Cameron cringeworthingly exploited the death of his child for political ends. If he is capable of that he is capable of anything.
Brown acted often brazenly politically- but at least he had principles. What are the principles of Camborne? They are a pair of cynical delinquents, public school oafs, yobs and louts, people without principle or character who make my skin crawl.
Gove is different. He is an ideologue and wants to try out new ideas. I like him for that.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcparliament/programmes/schedules
I actually quite admire Liz's team's chutzpah at still claiming she is the candidate who the public would like best, when that IPSOS-MORI public poll the other day placed her last (behind even Corbyn).
Whippersnapper is a general word for youngster, a bit like flibbertigibbet - but that is insulting.
Burham and Cooper don't even register, Corbyn is a source of great amusement/horror.
If Labour are going to reclaim the centre ground - Liz or someone like her is required - unless of course the UK turns into Venezuela before 2020.
Corbyn (107)
Burnham (101)
Cooper (88)
Kendall (14)
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/07/which-clps-are-nominating-who-labour-leadership-contest
A question: when CLP tallies are reported they are often less than 50-60 votes all told. Are the number of CLP members rearly that small, or do very few bother taking part? TIA.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/07/26/just-when-you-thought-the-lab-leadership-contest-couldnt-get-any-more-exciting/
Every piece of progressive legislation has to be enacted by the left by spilling blood sweat and tears, and then, and only then gets reluctantly picked up by the right for political ends because they have to. From the health service, to the welfare state, minimum wage, climate change, free museums, equalities, disabilities, tax credits, housing, environment legislation, animal welfare and on and on and ariston.
I really can't think of one single thing post second world war the right has done on their own initiative to exclusively help the poor, the environment, or any other marginal group. They have done everything with their arm twisted around their backs.
As for older voters, well I guess you could say people become more fearful of change, and that's partly a reason for conservative attitudes among those 60+.
After all, what have the Tories ever done for us?
Older people vote Tory, because with age comes wisdom.
Are your parents quite young? I can imagine that being a factor as well.
Ms. Apocalypse, it's not an especially common term (akin to rapscallions, scallywags, ragamuffins and tatterdemalions).
You might say fear of change among older voters motivates them indeed. Of course you'd be wrong in my opinion.
As I said below Pulps, cynical politics. Like the proposed Euro referendum. Or trying to get hunting reintroduced on the backend of an hours vote. Or trying to get the speaker kicked out on some bully boy, public school plot hatched up at the end of term.
But what do you expect from some Bullingdon lowlife yob who exploited the death of his child during a TV debate?
Perhaps I should have said: with age comes experience of Labour governments.
Needless to say - they were insults flung between guests!
Edited extra bit: Miss Plato, those are rather good. Harlots and hussies are also enjoyable.
I wasn't very subtle when I spoke to my MP about his campaign organiser role for Kendall either TBF.