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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Liz Kendall said to be under pressure to pull out of the race in an effort to stop Corbyn

One immediate effect of the YouGov Labour leader poll is, as the Times is reporting on its front page this morning, that pressure is being put on Liz Kendall to pull out of the race in order to make it easier to stop Corbyn. According to the report:-

Read the full story here

Sunil_Prasannan

"No, the country comes first!"

RodCrosby

A Blairite android develops a malfunction?

Is the self-destruct sequence still bootable?

VOTE HUM∀N

edmundintokyo

WTF

AV?

RodCrosby

edmundintokyo said:

WTF

AV?

Yes, AV satisfies the oh-so appropriately-named "Independence of Clones" criterion...

Lucian_Fletcher

I think this makes sense. They thought that having a token left-winger in the race would make it seem like cleansing and renewing race. Now it's becoming a battle of survival.

dugarbandier

Episode II
ATTACK OF THE CLONES

There is unrest in the Galactic
Senate. Several thousand solar
systems have declared their
intentions to leave the Republic.

This separatist movement,
under the leadership of the
mysterious Count Dooku, has
made it difficult for the limited
number of Jedi Knights to maintain
peace and order in the galaxy.

Senator Amidala, the former
Queen of Naboo, is returning
to the Galactic Senate to vote
on the critical issue of creating
an ARMY OF THE REPUBLIC
to assist the overwhelmed
Jedi....

dugarbandier

I sense that in the nostradamus-style prediction, Gordon Brown is Senator Amidala, the former Queen of Naboo

dugarbandier

dugarbandier said:

I sense that in the nostradamus-style prediction, Gordon Brown is Senator Amidala, the former Queen of Naboo

solar systems = CLPs

JohnLoony

Pardon me for stating the obvious, but if Liz Kendall stayed in the contest and came fourth, then the result of the election from the 2nd round onwards would be exactly the same as the result of the election would be if she stayed in.

Unless of course the members of the Labour Party are too stupid and idiotic to use their list of preferences properly. Oh, wait...

Danny565

I can't for the life of me see how a Kendall endorsement would be a boost for either Andy or Yvette in the eyes of mainstream party members. Quite the contrary.

JohnLoony

On 7th July 1977, Enver Hoxha wrote an article in "Zëri i Popullit" in which he denounced the "Three Worlds Theory" of the post-Mao Chinese Communist Party. This was on the same day that Alan Haselhurst was elected as Conservative MP in the Saffron Walden by-election. I remember the day because at school we got excited about the date "7 / 7 / 77" on the blackboard.

JohnLoony

The other day, someone said that Tony Blair is the only person alive to have led the Labour Party from opposition into government. To be fair, David Cameron is the only person alive to have led the Conservative Party from opposition into government.

MTimT

JohnLoony said:

On 7th July 1977, Enver Hoxha wrote an article in "Zëri i Popullit" in which he denounced the "Three Worlds Theory" of the post-Mao Chinese Communist Party. This was on the same day that Alan Haselhurst was elected as Conservative MP in the Saffron Walden by-election. I remember the day because at school we got excited about the date "7 / 7 / 77" on the blackboard.

Yes, but 7/7/77 does not explain why you were reading Hoxha at that age ... or at any age for that matter.

JohnLoony

(OT) The other day, Gary O'Donoghue was doing a report to camera on an incident in the USA (I think it was the shooting in Chattanooga, but whatever). I thought it was a bit strange when he turned his head to the side (as if to look over his shoulder) and also said "...as you can see behind me...", and (referring to something else) he said "...you can't see it from here, but...".

Just a thought, but anyway.

JohnLoony

In six weeks' time (or whenever it is), either Andy Cooper of Yvette Burnham will be elected leader of the Labour Party, and Jeremy Corbyn will come a relatively poor third. All this exciting kerfufflious silly-season hoo-hah about an imminent Corbyn victory will be long forgotten, and the normal politics of government vs. opposition will get back to normal. It's a bit like the general election of autumn 2007 which never happened (and which I never thought would happen at the time). Meanwhile, the jellyfish lugubriously rides the bicycle of destiny uphill into the chasm of clams beyond the western horizon, just as it always did.

dugarbandier

JohnLoony said:

Unless of course the members of the Labour Party are too stupid and idiotic to use their list of preferences properly. Oh, wait...

nor do the canditates understand the system, nor most of the commentators. The world is waiting for the TSE AV thread

Sandpit

So the quoted 'ally of Ms. Cooper' doesn't understand AV. What needs to be encouraged is for the members to avoid giving Corbyn their lower preferences, and that transfer between eg Burnham and Cooper is as high as possible.

When is TSE going to give us an AV thread to explain to them?

Chris123

It's clear to me that the only viable candidates are Corbyn ("the true believer") and Burnham ("the mainstream change candidate"). Yvette Cooper is the continuity candidate that would bring back the other Ed from the Ed/Ed show. It didn't float before when Ed was upfront with Ed and now Labour will put up the "ice queen" who has less charisma than her husband to rope in all of the lost votes... Seriously? Labour has such a great appetite to go back to Ed.

DaemonBarber

Is this not over yet?

GeoffM

Why all these references in the report to the characters as "Ms"?
They aren't all lesbians, are they?

blackburn63

Could it be that Corbyn's popularity is because of all the negative publicity? Good for his supporters I say, I'm sure they're sick to death of Blair and Mandelson, who've been out of power for years, telling them what's best for them. Occupy the centre ground, be bland, have no principles etc etc, labour supporters must be weary of that.

I fundamentally disagree with Corbyn's politics but I'm rooting for him, I'd like to bet there's plenty with a vote that feel like I do.

tlg86

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

Sandpit

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

Is anyone happy with the situation in Greece?
I also wonder if Mrs Dale wasn't in on the call from 'Nigel from Kent', rather amusing. Will there be a call from 'David from Oxfordshire' next time showing his love for Mr Corbyn?

TGOHF

Kendall needs to keep going - don't let the wet flannel twins squeeze her out.

blackburn63

Mr sandpit, there isn't a Mrs Dale, pedantic I know.

reverend_cat

Surely at this stage Burham is overvalued at 50% chance, I think Cooper is about right. Corbyn though at 4.6/1 that still seems like good value, given it is becoming a race of Corbyn vs the rest he should be about 50% chance IMO. He is still gaining a lot of ground. Other three are coming across worse as time goes on.

SouthamObserver

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

The way things are shaping up Dave is going to have a struggle on his hands to win his referendum. The right-wing BOOers are already very motivated, but the Greek situation combined with the opt-out on workers' rights that Dave is going to negotiate with Brussels will help to create a strong and motivated left-wing BOO movement as well. And If Corbyn does end up as Labour leader it is pretty certain there will be no concerted Labour Yes campaign. Dave is then going to have to rely on enough people around both sides of the centre to care enough to want to get out and cast their votes. That may not be easy - especially if the government is unpopular at the time.

In terms of legacy, Dave may still go down as the PM who took the UK out of the EU and then lost the UK.

HYUFD

Burnham still made the final 2 with Corbyn on preferences not Cooper so he is actually the 'Stop Corbyn' candidate at the moment

blackburn63

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

The way things are shaping up Dave is going to have a struggle on his hands to win his referendum. The right-wing BOOers are already very motivated, but the Greek situation combined with the opt-out on workers' rights that Dave is going to negotiate with Brussels will help to create a strong and motivated left-wing BOO movement as well. And If Corbyn does end up as Labour leader it is pretty certain there will be no concerted Labour Yes campaign. Dave is then going to have to rely on enough people around both sides of the centre to care enough to want to get out and cast their votes. That may not be easy - especially if the government is unpopular at the time.

In terms of legacy, Dave may still go down as the PM who took the UK out of the EU and then lost the UK.

Let's hope so, just reward for an unprincipled and duplicitous PM.

HYUFD

blackburn63 said:

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

The way things are shaping up Dave is going to have a struggle on his hands to win his referendum. The right-wing BOOers are already very motivated, but the Greek situation combined with the opt-out on workers' rights that Dave is going to negotiate with Brussels will help to create a strong and motivated left-wing BOO movement as well. And If Corbyn does end up as Labour leader it is pretty certain there will be no concerted Labour Yes campaign. Dave is then going to have to rely on enough people around both sides of the centre to care enough to want to get out and cast their votes. That may not be easy - especially if the government is unpopular at the time.

In terms of legacy, Dave may still go down as the PM who took the UK out of the EU and then lost the UK.

Let's hope so, just reward for an unprincipled and duplicitous PM.

Corbyn may well share a platform with Hannan, Hannan was quite sympathetic to him yesterday, Cameron and Sturgeon would both be for Yes

PeterC

HYUFD said:

Burnham still made the final 2 with Corbyn on preferences not Cooper so he is actually the 'Stop Corbyn' candidate at the moment

That's right, isn't it? 'Stop Corbyn' should try to ensure that Burhnam isn't eliminated so that his Corbyn second preferences do not come into play. Let's be grateful that the country said 'No' to AV!

dr_spyn

Liz will back Yvette to the hilt...of her knife.

ThomasNashe

Speaking personally, I took out affiliate membership in order to vote for Kendall. I've decided to vote as follows: 1) Kendall, 2) Cooper, 3) Burnham. However, if Kendall withdraws I probably won't vote at all.

foxinsoxuk

Liz should fight on. Under AV withdrawing would not help the other candidates, just leave the moderate wing of the Labour party no one to vote for. It never looks good to be a quitter, better to go down fighting.

If Corbyn wins then there will be a front bench clearout, and a back office purge of tremendous proportions. Just pity all those SPADS whose careers are over before they start. It would take years to rebuild, possibly terminal for Labour.

SquareRoot

Has any leadership election ever been as shambolic?

blackburn63

HYUFD said:

blackburn63 said:

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

The way things are shaping up Dave is going to have a struggle on his hands to win his referendum. The right-wing BOOers are already very motivated, but the Greek situation combined with the opt-out on workers' rights that Dave is going to negotiate with Brussels will help to create a strong and motivated left-wing BOO movement as well. And If Corbyn does end up as Labour leader it is pretty certain there will be no concerted Labour Yes campaign. Dave is then going to have to rely on enough people around both sides of the centre to care enough to want to get out and cast their votes. That may not be easy - especially if the government is unpopular at the time.

In terms of legacy, Dave may still go down as the PM who took the UK out of the EU and then lost the UK.

Let's hope so, just reward for an unprincipled and duplicitous PM.

Corbyn may well share a platform with Hannan, Hannan was quite sympathetic to him yesterday, Cameron and Sturgeon would both be for Yes

Yep this will see some strange bedfellows, interesting to see the long term repurcussions regardless of the result. I'm curious to see what happens to Cameron if the vote is OUT, his position will become untenable as he is left to deal with a scenario he campaigned against. I believe he'll resign if he loses.

dr_spyn

isn't it wonderful how OGH not only finds great threads several times a day, but also finds great photos each day, Liz like an 'ordinary' women in an advert for pot noodles or powdered soup.

HYUFD

PeterC said:

HYUFD said:

Burnham still made the final 2 with Corbyn on preferences not Cooper so he is actually the 'Stop Corbyn' candidate at the moment

That's right, isn't it? 'Stop Corbyn' should try to ensure that Burhnam isn't eliminated so that his Corbyn second preferences do not come into play. Let's be grateful that the country said 'No' to AV!

Indeed, Corbyn's lead on preferences was wider against Cooper than Burnham!

HYUFD

blackburn63 said:

HYUFD said:

blackburn63 said:

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

The way things are shaping up Dave is going to have a struggle on his hands to win his referendum. The right-wing BOOers are already very motivated, but the Greek situation combined with the opt-out on workers' rights that Dave is going to negotiate with Brussels will help to create a strong and motivated left-wing BOO movement as well. And If Corbyn does end up as Labour leader it is pretty certain there will be no concerted Labour Yes campaign. Dave is then going to have to rely on enough people around both sides of the centre to care enough to want to get out and cast their votes. That may not be easy - especially if the government is unpopular at the time.

In terms of legacy, Dave may still go down as the PM who took the UK out of the EU and then lost the UK.

Let's hope so, just reward for an unprincipled and duplicitous PM.

Corbyn may well share a platform with Hannan, Hannan was quite sympathetic to him yesterday, Cameron and Sturgeon would both be for Yes

Yep this will see some strange bedfellows, interesting to see the long term repurcussions regardless of the result. I'm curious to see what happens to Cameron if the vote is OUT, his position will become untenable as he is left to deal with a scenario he campaigned against. I believe he'll resign if he loses.

Would not be surprised, I think it will be In but close

CD13

Labour's still in its 'oh, fuck the electorate' mood, but all toddler temper tantrums come to an end. The novelty of a candidate who actually answers questions will subside before the vote takes place.

A pity in some ways because PM Corbyn and President Trump would be awesome - what a subject for a novel!

dugarbandier

dr_spyn said:

isn't it wonderful how OGH not only finds great threads several times a day, but also finds great photos each day, Liz like an 'ordinary' women in an advert for pot noodles or powdered soup.

Is this not Liz in "eat your cereal" mode?

SouthamObserver

HYUFD said:

blackburn63 said:

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

The way things are shaping up Dave is going to have a struggle on his hands to win his referendum. The right-wing BOOers are already very motivated, but the Greek situation combined with the opt-out on workers' rights that Dave is going to negotiate with Brussels will help to create a strong and motivated left-wing BOO movement as well. And If Corbyn does end up as Labour leader it is pretty certain there will be no concerted Labour Yes campaign. Dave is then going to have to rely on enough people around both sides of the centre to care enough to want to get out and cast their votes. That may not be easy - especially if the government is unpopular at the time.

In terms of legacy, Dave may still go down as the PM who took the UK out of the EU and then lost the UK.

Let's hope so, just reward for an unprincipled and duplicitous PM.

Corbyn may well share a platform with Hannan, Hannan was quite sympathetic to him yesterday, Cameron and Sturgeon would both be for Yes

I am looking forward to Nicola and Dave working for the same result. Nicola's explanations as to why it is vital to be in the EU but out of the UK are going to be fascinating.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https://fullfact.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Scottish-Exports-png-laura-edit.png&imgrefurl=https://fullfact.org/scotland/how_scottish_independence_would_affect_scotland-trade-34178&docid=ErF-x6vXypUMNM&tbnid=jkjLb1qXZ5Z5JM:&w=550&h=396&ei=DYuwVceNOIGyU5exgLgJ&ved=0CAIQxiAwAGoVChMIh8i0rtHwxgIVAdkUCh2XGACX&iact=c

Alanbrooke

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

The way things are shaping up Dave is going to have a struggle on his hands to win his referendum. The right-wing BOOers are already very motivated, but the Greek situation combined with the opt-out on workers' rights that Dave is going to negotiate with Brussels will help to create a strong and motivated left-wing BOO movement as well. And If Corbyn does end up as Labour leader it is pretty certain there will be no concerted Labour Yes campaign. Dave is then going to have to rely on enough people around both sides of the centre to care enough to want to get out and cast their votes. That may not be easy - especially if the government is unpopular at the time.

In terms of legacy, Dave may still go down as the PM who took the UK out of the EU and then lost the UK.

Really the Nats should be voting out to embarass Cameron.

SouthamObserver

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

The way things are shaping up Dave is going to have a struggle on his hands to win his referendum. The right-wing BOOers are already very motivated, but the Greek situation combined with the opt-out on workers' rights that Dave is going to negotiate with Brussels will help to create a strong and motivated left-wing BOO movement as well. And If Corbyn does end up as Labour leader it is pretty certain there will be no concerted Labour Yes campaign. Dave is then going to have to rely on enough people around both sides of the centre to care enough to want to get out and cast their votes. That may not be easy - especially if the government is unpopular at the time.

In terms of legacy, Dave may still go down as the PM who took the UK out of the EU and then lost the UK.

Really the Nats should be voting out to embarass Cameron.

They vote in hoping the rUK votes out. Thus, they have their significant event and a trigger for a second indy referendum. But it will take a lot of contortion to make a case for a Yes that is not all about Scottish independence.

Pulpstar

Pulpstar said:

Sacrificing Kendall could actually HELP Corbyn as people who would have voted for her don't bother and bang goes the Cooper/Burnham 2nd pref.

ThomasNashe said:

Speaking personally, I took out affiliate membership in order to vote for Kendall. I've decided to vote as follows: 1) Kendall, 2) Cooper, 3) Burnham. However, if Kendall withdraws I probably won't vote at all.

Stephen Bush
✔
@stephenkb

Troubling to me the number of people who are paid to work in politics who don't understand the alternative vote.

Tissue_Price said:

Troubling that Stephen Bush doesn't understand how it works in practice, where not everyone gives a complete set of preferences.

Oh what a tangled web the Labour party weave when they set out to decieve Ma Beckett 'lends' the nomination to Corbyn !!!

TheScreamingEagles

I think there's an implicit assumption that Kendall doesn't want to come a humiliating and distant fourth.

Alanbrooke

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

The way things are shaping up Dave is going to have a struggle on his hands to win his referendum. The right-wing BOOers are already very motivated, but the Greek situation combined with the opt-out on workers' rights that Dave is going to negotiate with Brussels will help to create a strong and motivated left-wing BOO movement as well. And If Corbyn does end up as Labour leader it is pretty certain there will be no concerted Labour Yes campaign. Dave is then going to have to rely on enough people around both sides of the centre to care enough to want to get out and cast their votes. That may not be easy - especially if the government is unpopular at the time.

In terms of legacy, Dave may still go down as the PM who took the UK out of the EU and then lost the UK.

Really the Nats should be voting out to embarass Cameron.

They vote in hoping the rUK votes out. Thus, they have their significant event and a trigger for a second indy referendum. But it will take a lot of contortion to make a case for a Yes that is not all about Scottish independence.

except of course that rUK will most likely vote in

TheScreamingEagles

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

The way things are shaping up Dave is going to have a struggle on his hands to win his referendum. The right-wing BOOers are already very motivated, but the Greek situation combined with the opt-out on workers' rights that Dave is going to negotiate with Brussels will help to create a strong and motivated left-wing BOO movement as well. And If Corbyn does end up as Labour leader it is pretty certain there will be no concerted Labour Yes campaign. Dave is then going to have to rely on enough people around both sides of the centre to care enough to want to get out and cast their votes. That may not be easy - especially if the government is unpopular at the time.

In terms of legacy, Dave may still go down as the PM who took the UK out of the EU and then lost the UK.

Really the Nats should be voting out to embarass Cameron.

I think you'll find that the Nats are embarrassing full stop.

Shall we discuss the paradise of an independent Scotland funded by $110 a barrel of oil.

Alanbrooke

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

The way things are shaping up Dave is going to have a struggle on his hands to win his referendum. The right-wing BOOers are already very motivated, but the Greek situation combined with the opt-out on workers' rights that Dave is going to negotiate with Brussels will help to create a strong and motivated left-wing BOO movement as well. And If Corbyn does end up as Labour leader it is pretty certain there will be no concerted Labour Yes campaign. Dave is then going to have to rely on enough people around both sides of the centre to care enough to want to get out and cast their votes. That may not be easy - especially if the government is unpopular at the time.

In terms of legacy, Dave may still go down as the PM who took the UK out of the EU and then lost the UK.

Really the Nats should be voting out to embarass Cameron.

I think you'll find that the Nats are embarrassing full stop.

Shall we discuss the paradise of an independent Scotland funded by $110 a barrel of oil.

Yes, I never did get my free unicorn.

No_Offence_Alan

SquareRoot said:

Has any leadership election ever been as shambolic?

It was much simpler when Union block votes decided it.

TheScreamingEagles

Liz Kendall: I won't quit Labour leadership contest

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33632605

Slackbladder

If the run off is between Burnham and Corbyn, and Watson walks the deptuty leadership, does labour have a woman problem?

TheScreamingEagles

Slackbladder said:

If the run of is between Burnham and Corbyn, and Watson walks the deptuty leadership, does labour have a woman problem?

We all know it is Cameron that has the woman problem

Alanbrooke

Slackbladder said:

If the run off is between Burnham and Corbyn, and Watson walks the deptuty leadership, does labour have a woman problem?

No, they'll be out the back progressively doing the washing up.

BannedInParis

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

The way things are shaping up Dave is going to have a struggle on his hands to win his referendum. The right-wing BOOers are already very motivated, but the Greek situation combined with the opt-out on workers' rights that Dave is going to negotiate with Brussels will help to create a strong and motivated left-wing BOO movement as well. And If Corbyn does end up as Labour leader it is pretty certain there will be no concerted Labour Yes campaign. Dave is then going to have to rely on enough people around both sides of the centre to care enough to want to get out and cast their votes. That may not be easy - especially if the government is unpopular at the time.

In terms of legacy, Dave may still go down as the PM who took the UK out of the EU and then lost the UK.

Really the Nats should be voting out to embarass Cameron.

They vote in hoping the rUK votes out. Thus, they have their significant event and a trigger for a second indy referendum. But it will take a lot of contortion to make a case for a Yes that is not all about Scottish independence.

except of course that rUK will most likely vote in

I saw 'your' statue over the weekend. Love the massive MASTER OF STRATEGY across the bottom.

foxinsoxuk

TheScreamingEagles said:

Liz Kendall: I won't quit Labour leadership contest

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33632605

So at least she understands AV!

Alanbrooke

BannedInParis said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

The way things are shaping up Dave is going to have a struggle on his hands to win his referendum. The right-wing BOOers are already very motivated, but the Greek situation combined with the opt-out on workers' rights that Dave is going to negotiate with Brussels will help to create a strong and motivated left-wing BOO movement as well. And If Corbyn does end up as Labour leader it is pretty certain there will be no concerted Labour Yes campaign. Dave is then going to have to rely on enough people around both sides of the centre to care enough to want to get out and cast their votes. That may not be easy - especially if the government is unpopular at the time.

In terms of legacy, Dave may still go down as the PM who took the UK out of the EU and then lost the UK.

Really the Nats should be voting out to embarass Cameron.

They vote in hoping the rUK votes out. Thus, they have their significant event and a trigger for a second indy referendum. But it will take a lot of contortion to make a case for a Yes that is not all about Scottish independence.

except of course that rUK will most likely vote in

I saw 'your' statue over the weekend. Love the massive MASTER OF STRATEGY across the bottom.

It's why Osborne feels threatened :-)

Hertsmere_Pubgoer

If Liz does stand down, it buggers my voting plans.
Will now be Corbyn/Cooper/Burnham

TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/624113459882524672

Casino_Royale

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

What struck me about that LBC debate, yet again, was Burnham's 'sense of humour'. Yet again he made a terribly unfunny 'joke', or, more accurately, claimed that his suggestion he'd appoint Corbyn to his shadow cabinet was one. It was deeply embarassing to watch.

He seems to be blithely unaware that the joke's on him.

TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/624114694396231681

Moses_

TheScreamingEagles said:

I think there's an implicit assumption that Kendall doesn't want to come a humiliating and distant fourth.

Well she would be well set for the next leadership battle after they lose in 2020. I mean look at Burnham..... Barely scraped past Abbot into 4th the last time and is now being hailed as the Nu Messiah.

Casino_Royale

Kendall should not withdraw. There's no need to under AV and, if she does, she has effectively surrendered the Blairite argument.

That case needs to be made right down to the wire.

Scott_P

@JoeWatts_: PRESCOTT: Blair's "transplant" comment was "absolutely staggering", "totally unacceptable" - "it was Iraq that stopped people voting for us"

Scott_P

@BBCNormanS: Agh..its the media who are to blame for the rise of Jeremy Corbyn according to John Prescott @BBCr4today

Scott_P

@rosschawkins: 8 minutes in, Prescott has attacked Blair, McTernan, Harman, Murdoch press, media more generally, advisors

@IanDunt: Prescott sounds like a madman.

Mortimer

Really coming to something when Prescott is sounding like the voice of moderation. What happened to the Labour party....

dr_spyn

Don't leave it to the boys...non sexist Liz from Leicester says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33632605

Sandpit

HYUFD said:

blackburn63 said:

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

The way things are shaping up Dave is going to have a struggle on his hands to win his referendum. The right-wing BOOers are already very motivated, but the Greek situation combined with the opt-out on workers' rights that Dave is going to negotiate with Brussels will help to create a strong and motivated left-wing BOO movement as well. And If Corbyn does end up as Labour leader it is pretty certain there will be no concerted Labour Yes campaign. Dave is then going to have to rely on enough people around both sides of the centre to care enough to want to get out and cast their votes. That may not be easy - especially if the government is unpopular at the time.

In terms of legacy, Dave may still go down as the PM who took the UK out of the EU and then lost the UK.

Let's hope so, just reward for an unprincipled and duplicitous PM.

Corbyn may well share a platform with Hannan, Hannan was quite sympathetic to him yesterday.

They are both conviction politicians with passionately held beliefs. That they don't like the EU is just about the only thing they have in common, but it would be great fun to see the two of them on a stage together at some point during the referendum campaign!

kle4

Scott_P said:

@JoeWatts_: PRESCOTT: Blair's "transplant" comment was "absolutely staggering", "totally unacceptable" - "it was Iraq that stopped people voting for us"

People voted for Blair after Iraq, Lord Prescott, and even though things did get even worse, 8 years after Blair left office that is not the primary reason most people will have voted the way they did.

Some deputy he is.

SimonStClare

Mortimer said:

Really coming to something when Prescott is sounding like the voice of moderation. What happened to the Labour party....

‘voice of moderation’? - Prescott sounds like a barking mad conspiracy theorist.

Sean_F

HYUFD said:

blackburn63 said:

HYUFD said:

blackburn63 said:

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

The way things are shaping up Dave is going to have a struggle on his hands to win his referendum. The right-wing BOOers are already very motivated, but the Greek situation combined with the opt-out on workers' rights that Dave is going to negotiate with Brussels will help to create a strong and motivated left-wing BOO movement as well. And If Corbyn does end up as Labour leader it is pretty certain there will be no concerted Labour Yes campaign. Dave is then going to have to rely on enough people around both sides of the centre to care enough to want to get out and cast their votes. That may not be easy - especially if the government is unpopular at the time.

In terms of legacy, Dave may still go down as the PM who took the UK out of the EU and then lost the UK.

Let's hope so, just reward for an unprincipled and duplicitous PM.

Corbyn may well share a platform with Hannan, Hannan was quite sympathetic to him yesterday, Cameron and Sturgeon would both be for Yes

Yep this will see some strange bedfellows, interesting to see the long term repurcussions regardless of the result. I'm curious to see what happens to Cameron if the vote is OUT, his position will become untenable as he is left to deal with a scenario he campaigned against. I believe he'll resign if he loses.

Would not be surprised, I think it will be In but close

Panelbase's latest poll suggests 50.5% - 49.5% In.

dr_spyn

kle4 said:

Scott_P said:

@JoeWatts_: PRESCOTT: Blair's "transplant" comment was "absolutely staggering", "totally unacceptable" - "it was Iraq that stopped people voting for us"

People voted for Blair after Iraq, Lord Prescott, and even though things did get even worse, 8 years after Blair left office that is not the primary reason most people will have voted the way they did.

Some deputy he is.

There were some great headlines when Prescott resigned after those tanks drove into Baghdad.

SquareRoot

Until Labour can be trusted on the economy, it doesn't really matter who wins. The worst thing about this hapless election is that the Tories are just sitting back and laughing at Labour.. and its hard not to.
The Country deserves better. It needs a forthright opposition , questioning the Govt on every aspect of their policies.

foxinsoxuk

dr_spyn said:

Don't leave it to the boys...non sexist Liz from Leicester says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33632605

I think the Cooper dirty tricks team are trying not to come fourth themselves. If they genuinely were sure that Kendall was fourth then it would be no advantage to force her out.

williamglenn

dr_spyn said:

Don't leave it to the boys...non sexist Liz from Leicester says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33632605

That was said by Yvette Cooper.

foxinsoxuk

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/624114694396231681

Quite incredible. A vote for Corbyn is a vote for opposition, according to 95% of his supporters.

The real enemy are the class traitors in the party. What is needed is a servere purge of the wreckers and splitters.

SquareRoot

kle4 said:

Scott_P said:

@JoeWatts_: PRESCOTT: Blair's "transplant" comment was "absolutely staggering", "totally unacceptable" - "it was Iraq that stopped people voting for us"

People voted for Blair after Iraq, Lord Prescott, and even though things did get even worse, 8 years after Blair left office that is not the primary reason most people will have voted the way they did.

Some deputy he is.

I don't suppose it ever crossed Prezza's mind that as a Minister of the Crown and Deputy PM that shagging his secretary was totally unacceptable, but then Prezza is a complete and utter moron. Why anyone listens to a word he says is beyond me.

Plato

Self-righteous posturing in preference to actually changing the lives of those you claim to care about.

Yup.

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/624114694396231681

Quite incredible. A vote for Corbyn is a vote for opposition, according to 95% of his supporters.

The real enemy are the class traitors in the party. What is needed is a servere purge of the wreckers and splitters.

AlastairMeeks

JohnLoony said:

The other day, someone said that Tony Blair is the only person alive to have led the Labour Party from opposition into government. To be fair, David Cameron is the only person alive to have led the Conservative Party from opposition into government.

There have only ever been three years in the mid 1960s when there was more than one person alive (Attlee and Wilson, and even then Attlee did it in unusual circumstances) to have led the Labour party from opposition into government. On the Conservative side, only Heath and Thatcher and, more recently, Thatcher and Cameron, have both been alive having achieved this distinction since the First World War.

Plato

What my brain couldn't process yesterday was Corbyn claiming that Blair *lost* Labour 5m votes.

Umm, without Blair - there wouldn't have been votes to lose to anyone.

kle4 said:

Scott_P said:

@JoeWatts_: PRESCOTT: Blair's "transplant" comment was "absolutely staggering", "totally unacceptable" - "it was Iraq that stopped people voting for us"

People voted for Blair after Iraq, Lord Prescott, and even though things did get even worse, 8 years after Blair left office that is not the primary reason most people will have voted the way they did.

Some deputy he is.

MonikerDiCanio

Kendall has so few supporters that whether or not she continues is insignificant.

kle4

foxinsoxuk said:

dr_spyn said:

Don't leave it to the boys...non sexist Liz from Leicester says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33632605

I think the Cooper dirty tricks team are trying not to come fourth themselves. If they genuinely were sure that Kendall was fourth then it would be no advantage to force her out.

i think it would be hilarious if there was actually a shy blairite surge and kendall comes in the top 2, and Coybyn 3rd or 4th - imagine the wailing hurt and confusion. its probably true that we are at peak Corbyn and Burnham will win easily in the end, but people are starting to dream otherwise, and others dread a poor showing for Kendall, and a surprise turnaround would be amusing.

kle4

Plato said:

What my brain couldn't process yesterday was Corbyn claiming that Blair *lost* Labour 5m votes.

Umm, without Blair - there wouldn't have been votes to lose to anyone.

kle4 said:

Scott_P said:

@JoeWatts_: PRESCOTT: Blair's "transplant" comment was "absolutely staggering", "totally unacceptable" - "it was Iraq that stopped people voting for us"

People voted for Blair after Iraq, Lord Prescott, and even though things did get even worse, 8 years after Blair left office that is not the primary reason most people will have voted the way they did.

Some deputy he is.

i must say i was getting a bit confused a the tone of comment like that (as reported, i didnt see it) - as you say, it was almost as though Blair just appeared on the scene with the maximum number of votes and ruined everything. Now, i dont like blair, and other factors besides the leader do and did play a role in winning those votes in the first place, but i feel confident he played significant part in it!

Good day all.

Sandpit

kle4 said:

foxinsoxuk said:

dr_spyn said:

Don't leave it to the boys...non sexist Liz from Leicester says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33632605

I think the Cooper dirty tricks team are trying not to come fourth themselves. If they genuinely were sure that Kendall was fourth then it would be no advantage to force her out.

i think it would be hilarious if there was actually a shy blairite surge and kendall comes in the top 2, and Coybyn 3rd or 4th - imagine the wailing hurt and confusion. its probably true that we are at peak Corbyn and Burnham will win easily in the end, but people are starting to dream otherwise, and others dread a poor showing for Kendall, and a surprise turnaround would be amusing.

I am convinced that the Kendall campaign are biding their time.

She's got an experienced team behind her and it's really surprising that she's been so quiet up until now. One can only assume that she will be all over the media in the days following the vote opening and the distribution of ballot papers - if not then she's completely blown it and will be 4th by a mile!

Scott_P

@BBCNormanS: So...Prezza attacks Blair and Harman; Kendall points finger at Cooper and Burnham. Corbyn sails on.Oh..and the media are to blame #disarray

Mortimer

SimonStClare said:

Mortimer said:

Really coming to something when Prescott is sounding like the voice of moderation. What happened to the Labour party....

‘voice of moderation’? - Prescott sounds like a barking mad conspiracy theorist.

Honestly; if you listen to the entire interview with Prescott, he suggests:

- leaving it to the members to decide
- having a wide ranging debate, including Corbyn
- stopping the media obsession (still 50 days from the election)
- stating the obvious, which those with a more vested interest (Blair?) are not willing to do; that Corbyn becoming leader would not result in the end of the world

He was also complimentary about Liz, Andy and Jeremy.

In all, quite a lot to admire in JP's philosophy about all this.

Alanbrooke

Mortimer said:

SimonStClare said:

Mortimer said:

Really coming to something when Prescott is sounding like the voice of moderation. What happened to the Labour party....

‘voice of moderation’? - Prescott sounds like a barking mad conspiracy theorist.

Honestly; if you listen to the entire interview with Prescott, he suggests:

- leaving it to the members to decide
- having a wide ranging debate, including Corbyn
- stopping the media obsession (still 50 days from the election)
- stating the obvious, which those with a more vested interest (Blair?) are not willing to do; that Corbyn becoming leader would not result in the end of the world

He was also complimentary about Liz, Andy and Jeremy.

In all, quite a lot to admire in JP's philosophy about all this.

JP - Philosopher.

I've heard it all now.

JEO

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

I listened to the LBC debate and thought it was quite good. I particularly liked it when Ian Dale to a call from Nigel in Kent. Corbyn didn't want to commit to backing the Out campaign, but you could tell he wasn't impressed with the situation in Greece.

The way things are shaping up Dave is going to have a struggle on his hands to win his referendum. The right-wing BOOers are already very motivated, but the Greek situation combined with the opt-out on workers' rights that Dave is going to negotiate with Brussels will help to create a strong and motivated left-wing BOO movement as well. And If Corbyn does end up as Labour leader it is pretty certain there will be no concerted Labour Yes campaign. Dave is then going to have to rely on enough people around both sides of the centre to care enough to want to get out and cast their votes. That may not be easy - especially if the government is unpopular at the time.

In terms of legacy, Dave may still go down as the PM who took the UK out of the EU and then lost the UK.

If the EU keeps on going down the path it is going, then it might be a very positive part of Cameron's legacy to have gotten out before the car went over the cliff.

Theuniondivvie

kle4 said:

Plato said:

What my brain couldn't process yesterday was Corbyn claiming that Blair *lost* Labour 5m votes.

Umm, without Blair - there wouldn't have been votes to lose to anyone.

kle4 said:

Scott_P said:

@JoeWatts_: PRESCOTT: Blair's "transplant" comment was "absolutely staggering", "totally unacceptable" - "it was Iraq that stopped people voting for us"

People voted for Blair after Iraq, Lord Prescott, and even though things did get even worse, 8 years after Blair left office that is not the primary reason most people will have voted the way they did.

Some deputy he is.

i must say i was getting a bit confused a the tone of comment like that (as reported, i didnt see it) - as you say, it was almost as though Blair just appeared on the scene with the maximum number of votes and ruined everything. Now, i dont like blair, and other factors besides the leader do and did play a role in winning those votes in the first place, but i feel confident he played significant part in it!

Good day all.

I think losing 4 million votes would be more accurate.

If Blair had agency in Labour getting 13.5million votes in 1997 (2 million more than 'loser' Kinnock in '92), he certainly owns a big, fat buck coming to a shuddering halt in 2005 when Labour received 9.5 million votes. How much responsibility he bears for Labour's 2010 result is another matter.

Casino_Royale

antifrank said:

JohnLoony said:

The other day, someone said that Tony Blair is the only person alive to have led the Labour Party from opposition into government. To be fair, David Cameron is the only person alive to have led the Conservative Party from opposition into government.

There have only ever been three years in the mid 1960s when there was more than one person alive (Attlee and Wilson, and even then Attlee did it in unusual circumstances) to have led the Labour party from opposition into government. On the Conservative side, only Heath and Thatcher and, more recently, Thatcher and Cameron, have both been alive having achieved this distinction since the First World War.

But the Conservatives were in power so often that it really doesn't matter the same way.

Mortimer

Alanbrooke said:

Mortimer said:

SimonStClare said:

Mortimer said:

Really coming to something when Prescott is sounding like the voice of moderation. What happened to the Labour party....

‘voice of moderation’? - Prescott sounds like a barking mad conspiracy theorist.

Honestly; if you listen to the entire interview with Prescott, he suggests:

- leaving it to the members to decide
- having a wide ranging debate, including Corbyn
- stopping the media obsession (still 50 days from the election)
- stating the obvious, which those with a more vested interest (Blair?) are not willing to do; that Corbyn becoming leader would not result in the end of the world

He was also complimentary about Liz, Andy and Jeremy.

In all, quite a lot to admire in JP's philosophy about all this.

JP - Philosopher.

I've heard it all now.

Indeed. When JP looks like sense, and sounds like a party elder, it suggests the current incarnation of the party is even more out of touch....

Alanbrooke

Theuniondivvie said:

kle4 said:

Plato said:

What my brain couldn't process yesterday was Corbyn claiming that Blair *lost* Labour 5m votes.

Umm, without Blair - there wouldn't have been votes to lose to anyone.

kle4 said:

Scott_P said:

@JoeWatts_: PRESCOTT: Blair's "transplant" comment was "absolutely staggering", "totally unacceptable" - "it was Iraq that stopped people voting for us"

People voted for Blair after Iraq, Lord Prescott, and even though things did get even worse, 8 years after Blair left office that is not the primary reason most people will have voted the way they did.

Some deputy he is.

i must say i was getting a bit confused a the tone of comment like that (as reported, i didnt see it) - as you say, it was almost as though Blair just appeared on the scene with the maximum number of votes and ruined everything. Now, i dont like blair, and other factors besides the leader do and did play a role in winning those votes in the first place, but i feel confident he played significant part in it!

Good day all.

I think losing 4 million votes would be more accurate.

If Blair had agency in Labour getting 13.5million votes in 1997 (2 million more than 'loser' Kinnock), he certainly owns a big, fat buck coming to a shuddering halt in 2005 when Labour received 9.5 million votes. How much responsibility he bears for Labour's 2010 result is another matter.

crivvens divvie, don't tell me you once voted for Blair ?

MarqueeMark

SquareRoot said:

Until Labour can be trusted on the economy, it doesn't really matter who wins. The worst thing about this hapless election is that the Tories are just sitting back and laughing at Labour.. and its hard not to.
The Country deserves better. It needs a forthright opposition , questioning the Govt on every aspect of their policies.

....and then abstaining.

I may be wrong, but surely the Tories put up at least a token effort at opposition after their crushing defeat in 1997?

Theuniondivvie

Alanbrooke said:

Theuniondivvie said:

kle4 said:

Plato said:

What my brain couldn't process yesterday was Corbyn claiming that Blair *lost* Labour 5m votes.

Umm, without Blair - there wouldn't have been votes to lose to anyone.

kle4 said:

Scott_P said:

@JoeWatts_: PRESCOTT: Blair's "transplant" comment was "absolutely staggering", "totally unacceptable" - "it was Iraq that stopped people voting for us"

People voted for Blair after Iraq, Lord Prescott, and even though things did get even worse, 8 years after Blair left office that is not the primary reason most people will have voted the way they did.

Some deputy he is.

i must say i was getting a bit confused a the tone of comment like that (as reported, i didnt see it) - as you say, it was almost as though Blair just appeared on the scene with the maximum number of votes and ruined everything. Now, i dont like blair, and other factors besides the leader do and did play a role in winning those votes in the first place, but i feel confident he played significant part in it!

Good day all.

I think losing 4 million votes would be more accurate.

If Blair had agency in Labour getting 13.5million votes in 1997 (2 million more than 'loser' Kinnock), he certainly owns a big, fat buck coming to a shuddering halt in 2005 when Labour received 9.5 million votes. How much responsibility he bears for Labour's 2010 result is another matter.

crivvens divvie, don't tell me you once voted for Blair ?

Wash your mouth out with soap, man.
You are misremembering!

BannedInParis

MarqueeMark said:

SquareRoot said:

Until Labour can be trusted on the economy, it doesn't really matter who wins. The worst thing about this hapless election is that the Tories are just sitting back and laughing at Labour.. and its hard not to.
The Country deserves better. It needs a forthright opposition , questioning the Govt on every aspect of their policies.

....and then abstaining.

I may be wrong, but surely the Tories put up at least a token effort at opposition after their crushing defeat in 1997?

Not in the immediate aftermath and then they were pretty rubbish at it for a good few years. It was only, really, Howard who put them on an even keel and he only took over 6 years after 1997.

Alanbrooke

Theuniondivvie said:

Alanbrooke said:

Theuniondivvie said:

kle4 said:

Plato said:

What my brain couldn't process yesterday was Corbyn claiming that Blair *lost* Labour 5m votes.

Umm, without Blair - there wouldn't have been votes to lose to anyone.

kle4 said:

Scott_P said:

@JoeWatts_: PRESCOTT: Blair's "transplant" comment was "absolutely staggering", "totally unacceptable" - "it was Iraq that stopped people voting for us"

People voted for Blair after Iraq, Lord Prescott, and even though things did get even worse, 8 years after Blair left office that is not the primary reason most people will have voted the way they did.

Some deputy he is.

i must say i was getting a bit confused a the tone of comment like that (as reported, i didnt see it) - as you say, it was almost as though Blair just appeared on the scene with the maximum number of votes and ruined everything. Now, i dont like blair, and other factors besides the leader do and did play a role in winning those votes in the first place, but i feel confident he played significant part in it!

Good day all.

I think losing 4 million votes would be more accurate.

If Blair had agency in Labour getting 13.5million votes in 1997 (2 million more than 'loser' Kinnock), he certainly owns a big, fat buck coming to a shuddering halt in 2005 when Labour received 9.5 million votes. How much responsibility he bears for Labour's 2010 result is another matter.

crivvens divvie, don't tell me you once voted for Blair ?

Wash your mouth out with soap, man.
You are misremembering!

Phew ! My faith in Nattism is restored, it would be like finding malc is an interior designer.

BannedInParis

As we've all discovered over the last 5 years, hyperbolic screaming in the manner of Bonnie Langford is not 'effective opposition'.

TheScreamingEagles

Theuniondivvie said:

Alanbrooke said:

Theuniondivvie said:

kle4 said:

Plato said:

What my brain couldn't process yesterday was Corbyn claiming that Blair *lost* Labour 5m votes.

Umm, without Blair - there wouldn't have been votes to lose to anyone.

kle4 said:

Scott_P said:

@JoeWatts_: PRESCOTT: Blair's "transplant" comment was "absolutely staggering", "totally unacceptable" - "it was Iraq that stopped people voting for us"

People voted for Blair after Iraq, Lord Prescott, and even though things did get even worse, 8 years after Blair left office that is not the primary reason most people will have voted the way they did.

Some deputy he is.

i must say i was getting a bit confused a the tone of comment like that (as reported, i didnt see it) - as you say, it was almost as though Blair just appeared on the scene with the maximum number of votes and ruined everything. Now, i dont like blair, and other factors besides the leader do and did play a role in winning those votes in the first place, but i feel confident he played significant part in it!

Good day all.

I think losing 4 million votes would be more accurate.

If Blair had agency in Labour getting 13.5million votes in 1997 (2 million more than 'loser' Kinnock), he certainly owns a big, fat buck coming to a shuddering halt in 2005 when Labour received 9.5 million votes. How much responsibility he bears for Labour's 2010 result is another matter.

crivvens divvie, don't tell me you once voted for Blair ?

Wash your mouth out with soap, man.
You are misremembering!

So you voted Major 1997, Hague in 2001 and Howard in 2005?

Plato

I blanked out everything after IDS was elected leader. I sat open-mouthed when the news came over the radio.

Was it my imagination that Redwood and Clarke did a double ticket press conference? My mind could be playing evil tricks on me - but those were strange times.

BannedInParis said:

MarqueeMark said:

SquareRoot said:

Until Labour can be trusted on the economy, it doesn't really matter who wins. The worst thing about this hapless election is that the Tories are just sitting back and laughing at Labour.. and its hard not to.
The Country deserves better. It needs a forthright opposition , questioning the Govt on every aspect of their policies.

....and then abstaining.

I may be wrong, but surely the Tories put up at least a token effort at opposition after their crushing defeat in 1997?

Not in the immediate aftermath and then they were pretty rubbish at it for a good few years. It was only, really, Howard who put them on an even keel and he only took over 6 years after 1997.