A General Election franchise includes Irish people and Maltesers. That being the case it is wide open to legal action to exclude other European citizens aand action there will certainly be.
At the end of the day it will highlight that nasty Torygraph tendancy of us and them which will do the Conservative Party great damage. The contrast with Scotland and the SNP is a stark one which shows the civic minded Scots in a good light.
No EU citizen has successfully brought a legal action over their inability to vote at a general election. If Parliament passes primary legislation stipulating that the franchise is the same as for a general election, there would be no grounds for legal challenge.
You'd like to think it wasn't just because Labour is so closely associated with the Muslims, but there's that nagging doubt....
How does that explain Labour's lead among Christians?
Surely it just reflects wider trends that have nothing to do with skin colour or religion: the more affluent you are, the more you are likely to vote Tory. And Sikhs and Hindus tend to be better off than African and West Indian Christians, or Asian and African Moslems.
Welby and his team sent out that missive to all churches virtually inviting christians to vote Labour. The whole thing was an utter disgrace.
Old Etonian Justin Welby became Archbishop of Canterbury in 2011, so I doubt it was Gordon Brown who recommended his appointment.
It doesn't matter a toss who appointed him, its what he did, I am sure it upset huge numbers of parishioners. it is not the business of the C of E to stick its nose into politics
I think it's in order for the ABC to set out his views on the issues that Christians should take into account when voting. But, Anglicans tend to vote heavily Conservative (or UKIP).
The Conservatives have been aided enormously in the pursuit of ethnic minority votes by the rise of UKIP. Without doing anything, they instantly look less unwelcoming to ethnic minority voters.
The Conservatives have a long way to go, however, and need to take far more meaningful steps to look friendly to BME voters.
And I remain just a bit wary of any findings based on opinion polls for now.
If this poll is correct, then I think the Economist is wrong. It would suggest a rightward swing of 16% among ethnic minority voters, since 2010. By contrast, Ipsos Mori found 23% of BME voters supporting the Conservatives, an increase of 7%.
Peter Kellner has found that the Conservatives lead among East Asian voters.
I guess it comes down to upward mobility. 50 years ago, Jews were solid for Labour. Now, they're solid for the Tories. Of course, Ken Livingstone aided that shift in outlook.
It looks like the Tories don't need to advocate liberal immigration policies, in order to increase support.
What they need is to not look racist, and as others have pointed out UKIP have helped them a lot.
In my experience people care more about the economy and their job security than the colour of their skin or any perceived racism by the "1%" Labour bang on about so much. The Tories went into the election offering economic security and jobs rather than any specific identity politics like Labour. It has paid off with groups who aren't in a state of perpetual victimhood and it isn't worth changing the current strategy to appeal to them like Labour did as I think it will turn away as many people as it will attract.
As a party the Conservatives have a very bright future if they can continue to just put out policies for everyone rather than divide people up into interest groups. Winning from the centre is the only way forwards, trying to appeal to different groups based on their skin colour will only end badly.
The Conservatives have been aided enormously in the pursuit of ethnic minority votes by the rise of UKIP. Without doing anything, they instantly look less unwelcoming to ethnic minority voters.
The Conservatives have a long way to go, however, and need to take far more meaningful steps to look friendly to BME voters.
And I remain just a bit wary of any findings based on opinion polls for now.
If this poll is correct, then I think the Economist is wrong. It would suggest a rightward swing of 16% among ethnic minority voters, since 2010. By contrast, Ipsos Mori found 23% of BME voters supporting the Conservatives, an increase of 7%.
Peter Kellner has found that the Conservatives lead among East Asian voters.
I guess it comes down to upward mobility. 50 years ago, Jews were solid for Labour. Now, they're solid for the Tories. Of course, Ken Livingstone aided that shift in outlook.
It looks like the Tories don't need to advocate liberal immigration policies, in order to increase support.
What they need is to not look racist, and as others have pointed out UKIP have helped them a lot.
In my experience people care more about the economy and their job security than the colour of their skin or any perceived racism by the "1%" Labour bang on about so much. The Tories went into the election offering economic security and jobs rather than any specific identity politics like Labour. It has paid off with groups who aren't in a state of perpetual victimhood and it isn't worth changing the current strategy to appeal to them like Labour did as I think it will turn away as many people as it will attract.
As a party the Conservatives have a very bright future if they can continue to just put out policies for everyone rather than divide people up into interest groups. Winning from the centre is the only way forwards, trying to appeal to different groups based on their skin colour will only end badly.
The Conservatives have been aided enormously in the pursuit of ethnic minority votes by the rise of UKIP. Without doing anything, they instantly look less unwelcoming to ethnic minority voters.
The Conservatives have a long way to go, however, and need to take far more meaningful steps to look friendly to BME voters.
And I remain just a bit wary of any findings based on opinion polls for now.
If this poll is correct, then I think the Economist is wrong. It would suggest a rightward swing of 16% among ethnic minority voters, since 2010. By contrast, Ipsos Mori found 23% of BME voters supporting the Conservatives, an increase of 7%.
Peter Kellner has found that the Conservatives lead among East Asian voters.
I guess it comes down to upward mobility. 50 years ago, Jews were solid for Labour. Now, they're solid for the Tories. Of course, Ken Livingstone aided that shift in outlook.
It looks like the Tories don't need to advocate liberal immigration policies, in order to increase support.
This poll is wrong, consider the source and it is no surprise they chose an outlier to highlight. Labour lost a chunk of its white support to UKIP which is why the Conservatives won.
That said BAME is a nonsense term and very different people should not be lumped together.
As I said in the previous topic, Christian Africans and Christian/Orthodox Eastern Europeans are the next groups that will help the Tories. Both groups are very similar to non-Muslim Asians and East Asians in that they value hard work, entrepreneurship and success over identity politics. For Christian Africans, Labour's Muslim vote policies will actively push them towards the Tories as the only other credible party, many of them have escaped from Islamofascist regimes or from Islamic terrorism in their home countries and recognise Labour's policies for Muslims as dangerous.
Until Labour get rid of people like Sadiq Khan from their party and Ken Livingstone they will continue to lose non-Muslim BAME votes to the Tories now that this false idea that they (we!) are a racist party has been consigned to the dustbin of the history books. I expect Labour and their media allies (Guardian, Mirror, BBC) to ramp up the rhetoric after DC that whichever new leader has racist tendencies and hates people who aren't white because they must sense the danger by now.
Identity politics only works for those who see themselves as victims of something. Non-Muslim Asians, Christian Africans and Eastern Europeans do not fit into that agenda Labour are pushing, they all want to get on in life and make something of themselves. Even if the system works against them in some cases they will still try anyway rather than stay home and moan about how hard life is and how the world hates them and end up in Syria or Iraq.
A good post. And referring to Mr Dancer's post up above, Labour face risks if they are seen as the party of Muslim voters given what is going on in the Islamic world at present. While Muslims and IS are not one and the same, there is - alas - an overlap. If IS continue to take over the Middle East and become more a threat to the West and if there is an IS atrocity here I would not like to be the political party which is most associated with voters of the same religion. Too many of the leading lights in Labour until now have not made the distinction between the extremists and others (Livingstone, for instance).
Incidentally, there was a very interesting discussion on IS ideology and deradicalisation this morning on the Today programme at about 8:20 am with Tom Holland, the historian. Well worth listening to.
In other news, an utter disgrace that the former Childrens Commissioner who failed to speak up about the abuse of young girls by British Asian gangs has had a humungous pay off and is now charging the same again for her consultancy services. I do hope this sort of thing will be stopped.
Then we could see whether, as is argued 'In America, race trumps class, in Britain, class trumps race.'
That's certainly been my experience - I have much more in common with people of similar educational backgrounds, irrespective of race, than I do with my former neighbours from the WWC housing scheme I grew up in......
Miss Cyclefree, would that be Joyce Thacker, previously famous for defending the decision to take (and split up) foster children from their good foster parents, on the grounds they supported UKIP?
Where are Labour's BAME champions like Surbiton here to tell us that their Muslim vote strategy is not going to have any negative consequences.
As I said in the previous topic, Christian Africans and Christian/Orthodox Eastern Europeans are the next groups that will help the Tories. Both groups are very similar to non-Muslim Asians and East Asians in that they value hard work, entrepreneurship and success over identity politics. For Christian Africans, Labour's Muslim vote policies will actively push them towards the Tories as the only other credible party, many of them have escaped from Islamofascist regimes or from Islamic terrorism in their home countries and recognise Labour's policies for Muslims as dangerous.
Until Labour get rid of people like Sadiq Khan from their party and Ken Livingstone they will continue to lose non-Muslim BAME votes to the Tories now that this false idea that they (we!) are a racist party has been consigned to the dustbin of the history books. I expect Labour and their media allies (Guardian, Mirror, BBC) to ramp up the rhetoric after DC that whichever new leader has racist tendencies and hates people who aren't white because they must sense the danger by now.
Identity politics only works for those who see themselves as victims of something. Non-Muslim Asians, Christian Africans and Eastern Europeans do not fit into that agenda Labour are pushing, they all want to get on in life and make something of themselves. Even if the system works against them in some cases they will still try anyway rather than stay home and moan about how hard life is and how the world hates them and end up in Syria or Iraq.
If people think they're doing fairly well out of the system, they'll be inclined to vote Conservative. That's true of all races.
Me too - I had everything in common with Chinese, Sikhs, Jews and Hindus as far back as the 80s. The Muslims, Black Caribbeans, and UB40 Whites who wouldn't get on their bikes - not much. And that was all about class, aspiration and attitude to getting on/women.
Then we could see whether, as is argued 'In America, race trumps class, in Britain, class trumps race.'
That's certainly been my experience - I have much more in common with people of similar educational backgrounds, irrespective of race, than I do with my former neighbours from the WWC housing scheme I grew up in......
Where are Labour's BAME champions like Surbiton here to tell us that their Muslim vote strategy is not going to have any negative consequences.
As I said in the previous topic, Christian Africans and Christian/Orthodox Eastern Europeans are the next groups that will help the Tories. Both groups are very similar to non-Muslim Asians and East Asians in that they value hard work, entrepreneurship and success over identity politics. For Christian Africans, Labour's Muslim vote policies will actively push them towards the Tories as the only other credible party, many of them have escaped from Islamofascist regimes or from Islamic terrorism in their home countries and recognise Labour's policies for Muslims as dangerous.
Until Labour get rid of people like Sadiq Khan from their party and Ken Livingstone they will continue to lose non-Muslim BAME votes to the Tories now that this false idea that they (we!) are a racist party has been consigned to the dustbin of the history books. I expect Labour and their media allies (Guardian, Mirror, BBC) to ramp up the rhetoric after DC that whichever new leader has racist tendencies and hates people who aren't white because they must sense the danger by now.
Identity politics only works for those who see themselves as victims of something. Non-Muslim Asians, Christian Africans and Eastern Europeans do not fit into that agenda Labour are pushing, they all want to get on in life and make something of themselves. Even if the system works against them in some cases they will still try anyway rather than stay home and moan about how hard life is and how the world hates them and end up in Syria or Iraq.
If people think they're doing fairly well out of the system, they'll be inclined to vote Conservative. That's true of all races.
Yes, I guess that's my point. It is about the person's attitude, if they are happy being the perpetual victim then why bother changing a policy that has wide appeal to try and get them on board.
OT I can't believe I'm typing this - but C5 has some rather good arts documentaries - and I don't mean luvvie love-ins - but Art History progs that aren't patronising or have an agenda which I constantly detect in BBC2/4 ones.
Do give them a try. I'm an Art History nerd [1500-1750]. ITV does some great stuff too - the portrait by Eddie Redmayne, on war artists on last night was super and should be on ITVPlayer.
Those who think only the BBC can do this stuff well is very wrong. Or blinkered.
Miss Cyclefree, would that be Joyce Thacker, previously famous for defending the decision to take (and split up) foster children from their good foster parents, on the grounds they supported UKIP?
No - it is Sue Berelowitz, the Childrens' Commissioner. She got - I hope you are sitting down - a severance payment of £134,000 and was rehired as a consultant the following day at a rate of £960 per day for 9 days' work a month, paid to her service company.
The Times was utterly scathing about her failure to accept that there was a problem with grooming and rape of young girls in Northern towns by gangs of British Pakistani men and wrote that she accused the Times (whose journalist, Andrew Norfolk, deserves every award going) of "prejudice and stereotyping".
They say: "The allegation was unforgivable. Despite being paid handsomely to safeguard chilren, Ms Berelowitz would not have know where to begin compiling her half-baked report but for the efforts of our reporter, Andrew Norfolk, who first exposed the prevalence of abuse by men of largely Pakistani origin. This woman's retirement is entirely welcome. Would that it were more complete and less lucrative.
Then we could see whether, as is argued 'In America, race trumps class, in Britain, class trumps race.'
That's certainly been my experience - I have much more in common with people of similar educational backgrounds, irrespective of race, than I do with my former neighbours from the WWC housing scheme I grew up in......
There is a big difference in England when you start to 'get on' in life. Im from the roughest end of society. When i was born my mother was homeless living in a shelter. I lived my life in a council estate, my mum on benefits having divorced her husband (my dad).
People like her, and her family didnt 'succeed' in life, my definition of success might seem quite shallow, when i use it to refer to accumulation of assets. Destined to remain council tenants for eternity. The area we lived was difficult. Lots of people my age involved in petty criminal behaviour.
My mum insisted on me going to a school outside of the area, for both primary and secondary. For the primary school she lied and said we lived at my uncle's house when my elder sister started school as he lived closer to the school, for me as a sibling I got into the school.
From going to two reasonable schools, i ended up at university, my sister also, went to university and is a senior nurse/ward manager at a local hospital. I run my own business.
Neither of us have anything in common anymore with the people we left behind in that council estate, despite both living there our entire childhood.
Our attitudes, values, horizons are completely at odds. When i step back, if im ever visiting people on the estate i grew up on, it is quite depressing how their lives are lived.
It's all about managing on mediocre amounts of money, eligibility for crisis loans (which has more or less being stopped), how many points they need to be able to bid on the latest housing association property etc.
There's no thirst or hunger to aspire to anything. I suppose I would be considered a class traitor.
The saying is that it's the first million that's the hardest. But, from my observations, it isnt those that have millions and those that have nothing that we see the big differences. It's those that have something, and those that have nothing.
If you have your own home, you have already given yourself and your children an enormous step up in life.
My suggestion, is that the divide is between those who own their own homes, and those that dont.
Travel Channel and Pick have some super history and castle documentaries. Looking at my DVR - 60% are history or docu progs and many of them come from those two channels or C5.
Has BBC2 only one presenter nowadays? That Scottish bloke who wears a scarf? He's on almost everything I trip over.
Re the comment from Omar Khan, people who move to an area often come to adopt the political outlook that prevails there. That's probably as true of BME voters moving out into the Home Counties as anybody. Whereas those who remain in Labour-voting areas of London remain committed to Labour.
The most interesting regiment I've come across are the Artists Rifles - Millais [the pre-Raphaelite artist], William Morris and Alfred Leighton [the Kitchener poster designer] were all members. http://www3.hants.gov.uk/1914-features.htm?id=325
At the outbreak of the First World War, Paul Nash, a prominent artist, gave up painting and enlisted in the Artists Rifles, eventually fighting with the Hampshire Regiment.
Members of the Artists Rifles regiment came from a host of artistic backgrounds - painters, poets, actors, architects. Early membership was a who's who of the Victorian art world: Burne Jones, Rossetti, Millais, Leighton and Holman Hunt. The First World War saw a new stream of creative people join its ranks: Frank Dobson, Charles Jagger, Wilfred Owen, Edward Thomas and John Nash who went 'over the top' with the regiment in 1917.
Just think what IOS is going through,he posted that the tories have lost the ground game,the tories will never get a majority and he posted Ethnic minorities never support the tories ;-)
We've now got about 70 overs more (it's 20 mins to Lunch) to get the other seven men out. Would be easy if it weren't England, let's see if the Kiwis try and chase the total or play safe for the draw.
You'd like to think it wasn't just because Labour is so closely associated with the Muslims, but there's that nagging doubt....
How does that explain Labour's lead among Christians?
Surely it just reflects wider trends that have nothing to do with skin colour or religion: the more affluent you are, the more you are likely to vote Tory. And Sikhs and Hindus tend to be better off than African and West Indian Christians, or Asian and African Moslems.
Welby and his team sent out that missive to all churches virtually inviting christians to vote Labour. The whole thing was an utter disgrace.
Old Etonian Justin Welby became Archbishop of Canterbury in 2011, so I doubt it was Gordon Brown who recommended his appointment.
It doesn't matter a toss who appointed him, its what he did, I am sure it upset huge numbers of parishioners. it is not the business of the C of E to stick its nose into politics
I blame that Jesus chap, forever banging on about camels and needles, and setting up one-man foodbanks.
You'd like to think it wasn't just because Labour is so closely associated with the Muslims, but there's that nagging doubt....
How does that explain Labour's lead among Christians?
Surely it just reflects wider trends that have nothing to do with skin colour or religion: the more affluent you are, the more you are likely to vote Tory. And Sikhs and Hindus tend to be better off than African and West Indian Christians, or Asian and African Moslems.
Welby and his team sent out that missive to all churches virtually inviting christians to vote Labour. The whole thing was an utter disgrace.
Old Etonian Justin Welby became Archbishop of Canterbury in 2011, so I doubt it was Gordon Brown who recommended his appointment.
It doesn't matter a toss who appointed him, its what he did, I am sure it upset huge numbers of parishioners. it is not the business of the C of E to stick its nose into politics
I blame that Jesus chap, forever banging on about camels and needles, and setting up one-man foodbanks.
Miss Cyclefree, that's outrageous. What degree of rancid incompetence is necessary to avoid a lucrative pay-off?
It's hard to know. Pay offs for incompetence seem to be the norm and not just in banking. In a way I think something like this is even more serious. God knows what a Childrens' Commissioner is supposed to do - it sounds to me like one of those invented jobs - but if it exists then the person in it should make it their mission to speak truth to power and not pretend that uncomfortable facts don't exist, as this woman has done. Her failure to do her job has meant that children have been abused: real, horrible crimes with life-long effects have happened and real people are suffering appalling damage.
That is - and I yield to no-one in my condemnation of crime and wrongdoing in the financial sector - far worse than what the Goodwins of this world did. Rape is an appalling crime. Rape of childen is despicable. And it is happening in our towns and to Yazidi girls and to countless others, animated in part by a deeply regressive view of women, particularly of non-Muslim women.
But, hey, who cares. We can all congratulate ourselves on how liberal we are, voting for gay marriage (a measure I support).
But while we all preen ourselves on our progressive credentials and our pink buses and women standing for Labour party leader, we are failing women in far more fundamental ways: not protecting women and girls from abuse, from not being forced into sex/marriage, from not being sold into slavery, from being denied the right to a life chosen by them. Feminism in this country seems to me, in some of my more despairing moments, to have allied itself with some revoltingly illiberal ideologies into arguing that the only right which a woman should have should be the right to shroud herself in a black veil.
Miss Cyclefree, that's outrageous. What degree of rancid incompetence is necessary to avoid a lucrative pay-off?
Can't the government find themselves a decent employment lawyer to write the contracts of senior managers? They all seem to be on a year's notice and never get fired for cause, rather paid to go away (or not, in this case) when they screw up.
A severe tightening of hiring contract staff who have "retired" (with large payoff) from the same department is also in order.
Miss Plato, Alistair Sooke [think that's his name] has done some art documentaries on Romans, Egyptians and Greeks on BBC4.
Yes he has and very good they were too. There were also two by Dr Michael Scott on Delphi and Luxury in the Ancient World. You can still catch them in iPlayer, I think.
Miss Plato, Bob [formerly of this parish, and sadly not returned] was much better informed than me. It's a kind thought, though.
Makes me wonder about writing a comedic history, focusing on blunders and the like, and having a Sir Edric type sarcastic take on it (Varro reporting to the Senate after Cannae, that sort of thing). I think it'd be fun to write, but I'm not sure there's a market for it.
Miss Cyclefree, that's outrageous. What degree of rancid incompetence is necessary to avoid a lucrative pay-off?
snip for space But while we all preen ourselves on our progressive credentials and our pink buses and women standing for Labour party leader, we are failing women in far more fundamental ways: not protecting women and girls from abuse, from not being forced into sex/marriage, from not being sold into slavery, from being denied the right to a life chosen by them. Feminism in this country seems to me, in some of my more despairing moments, to have allied itself with some revoltingly illiberal ideologies into arguing that the only right which a woman should have should be the right to shroud herself in a black veil.
Then we could see whether, as is argued 'In America, race trumps class, in Britain, class trumps race.'
That's certainly been my experience - I have much more in common with people of similar educational backgrounds, irrespective of race, than I do with my former neighbours from the WWC housing scheme I grew up in......
SNIP
The saying is that it's the first million that's the hardest. But, from my observations, it isnt those that have millions and those that have nothing that we see the big differences. It's those that have something, and those that have nothing.
If you have your own home, you have already given yourself and your children an enormous step up in life.
My suggestion, is that the divide is between those who own their own homes, and those that dont.
I think that is so. One reason the Tories need to sort out a viable solution for generation rent!
You'd like to think it wasn't just because Labour is so closely associated with the Muslims, but there's that nagging doubt....
How does that explain Labour's lead among Christians?
Surely it just reflects wider trends that have nothing to do with skin colour or religion: the more affluent you are, the more you are likely to vote Tory. And Sikhs and Hindus tend to be better off than African and West Indian Christians, or Asian and African Moslems.
Welby and his team sent out that missive to all churches virtually inviting christians to vote Labour. The whole thing was an utter disgrace.
Old Etonian Justin Welby became Archbishop of Canterbury in 2011, so I doubt it was Gordon Brown who recommended his appointment.
It doesn't matter a toss who appointed him, its what he did, I am sure it upset huge numbers of parishioners. it is not the business of the C of E to stick its nose into politics
I blame that Jesus chap, forever banging on about camels and needles, and setting up one-man foodbanks.
I'm sure that Jesus chap would also have something profound to say about helping people into helplessness.
Just think what IOS is going through,he posted that the tories have lost the ground game,the tories will never get a majority and he posted Ethnic minorities never support the tories ;-)
Poor lad ;-)
So many Labour supporters on here remained blissfully unaware the danger Ed Miliband posed to Middle England and they have the same issue with their own party's policy on BAME policies. They only attract people who identify as something other than British/English/Scottish/Welsh/NI if they identify as any of those first, then specific policies to attract them aren't going to work. I have specifically been telling Labour members on this site that their identity politics are destructive and won't work in the long term, I was told, repeatedly that there was no evidence that the minorities were deserting Labour.
There was a market for The Iliad and The Odyssey. Probably not your sort of TV show, but Once Upon A Time finished S4 with a very amusing table-turning show where the villains won and Snow White became a baddie.
Miss Plato, Bob [formerly of this parish, and sadly not returned] was much better informed than me. It's a kind thought, though.
Makes me wonder about writing a comedic history, focusing on blunders and the like, and having a Sir Edric type sarcastic take on it (Varro reporting to the Senate after Cannae, that sort of thing). I think it'd be fun to write, but I'm not sure there's a market for it.
You'd like to think it wasn't just because Labour is so closely associated with the Muslims, but there's that nagging doubt....
How does that explain Labour's lead among Christians?
Surely it just reflects wider trends that have nothing to do with skin colour or religion: the more affluent you are, the more you are likely to vote Tory. And Sikhs and Hindus tend to be better off than African and West Indian Christians, or Asian and African Moslems.
Welby and his team sent out that missive to all churches virtually inviting christians to vote Labour. The whole thing was an utter disgrace.
Old Etonian Justin Welby became Archbishop of Canterbury in 2011, so I doubt it was Gordon Brown who recommended his appointment.
It doesn't matter a toss who appointed him, its what he did, I am sure it upset huge numbers of parishioners. it is not the business of the C of E to stick its nose into politics
I blame that Jesus chap, forever banging on about camels and needles, and setting up one-man foodbanks.
I've never been a member of the Labour Party. Moving back to politics and Christianity: surely it was Methodism that gave us early socialists ("Labour owes more to Methodism than Marxism") and Mrs Thatcher, and did she not believe that the corollary of "there's no such thing as society" is that wealthy individuals must help the poor? What was David Cameron's "big society" all about?
Then we could see whether, as is argued 'In America, race trumps class, in Britain, class trumps race.'
That's certainly been my experience - I have much more in common with people of similar educational backgrounds, irrespective of race, than I do with my former neighbours from the WWC housing scheme I grew up in......
SNIP
The saying is that it's the first million that's the hardest. But, from my observations, it isnt those that have millions and those that have nothing that we see the big differences. It's those that have something, and those that have nothing.
If you have your own home, you have already given yourself and your children an enormous step up in life.
My suggestion, is that the divide is between those who own their own homes, and those that dont.
I think that is so. One reason the Tories need to sort out a viable solution for generation rent!
I couldnt agree more. The inherent insecurity within private rental is something that needs adjusted. The offer of security for the tenant with much longer tenancies, coupled with a swift eviction process, automatic high court eviction track for long tenancies, with an automatic assumption of eviction for non payment or contravention of certain parts of tenancy agreement.
I never mentioned being a Party Member - but you seem a clearly Labour leaning voter.
So - why are Sikhs and Hindus better off and does that in your view reflect their shift Tory-wise? And is Labour's lead with Christians given it's very wide scope confuse the picture?
The old adage of the Tory Party being synonymous with the CoE seems out of place in that context.
*EDIT I'm ignoring the partial Thatcher quote intentionally*
You'd like to think it wasn't just because Labour is so closely associated with the Muslims, but there's that nagging doubt....
How does that explain Labour's lead among Christians?
Surely it just reflects wider trends that have nothing to do with skin colour or religion: the more affluent you are, the more you are likely to vote Tory. And Sikhs and Hindus tend to be better off than African and West Indian Christians, or Asian and African Moslems.
Welby and his team sent out that missive to all churches virtually inviting christians to vote Labour. The whole thing was an utter disgrace.
Old Etonian Justin Welby became Archbishop of Canterbury in 2011, so I doubt it was Gordon Brown who recommended his appointment.
It doesn't matter a toss who appointed him, its what he did, I am sure it upset huge numbers of parishioners. it is not the business of the C of E to stick its nose into politics
I blame that Jesus chap, forever banging on about camels and needles, and setting up one-man foodbanks.
I've never been a member of the Labour Party. Moving back to politics and Christianity: surely it was Methodism that gave us early socialists ("Labour owes more to Methodism than Marxism") and Mrs Thatcher, and did she not believe that the corollary of "there's no such thing as society" is that wealthy individuals must help the poor? What was David Cameron's "big society" all about?
You'd like to think it wasn't just because Labour is so closely associated with the Muslims, but there's that nagging doubt....
How does that explain Labour's lead among Christians?
Surely it just reflects wider trends that have nothing to do with skin colour or religion: the more affluent you are, the more you are likely to vote Tory. And Sikhs and Hindus tend to be better off than African and West Indian Christians, or Asian and African Moslems.
Welby and his team sent out that missive to all churches virtually inviting christians to vote Labour. The whole thing was an utter disgrace.
Old Etonian Justin Welby became Archbishop of Canterbury in 2011, so I doubt it was Gordon Brown who recommended his appointment.
It doesn't matter a toss who appointed him, its what he did, I am sure it upset huge numbers of parishioners. it is not the business of the C of E to stick its nose into politics
I blame that Jesus chap, forever banging on about camels and needles, and setting up one-man foodbanks.
I'm sure that Jesus chap would also have something profound to say about helping people into helplessness.
There was a book, Faith In Politics, with chapters by Eric Heffer, John Gummer and Alan Beith, which clearly showed Jesus was a socialist, right wing, liberal sort of fellow.
I never mentioned being a Party Member - but you seem a clearly Labour leaning voter.
So - why are Sikhs and Hindus better off and does that in your view reflect their shift Tory-wise? And is Labour's lead with Christians given it's very wide scope confuse the picture?
The old adage of the Tory Party being synonymous with the CoE seems out of place in that context.
You'd like to think it wasn't just because Labour is so closely associated with the Muslims, but there's that nagging doubt....
How does that explain Labour's lead among Christians?
Surely it just
Welby
Old Etonian Justin Welby became Archbishop of Canterbury in 2011, so I doubt it was Gordon Brown who recommended his appointment.
It doesn't matter a toss who appointed him, its what he did, I am sure it upset huge numbers of parishioners. it is not the business of the C of E to stick its nose into politics
I blame that Jesus chap, forever banging on about camels and needles, and setting up one-man foodbanks.
I've never been a member of the Labour Party. Moving back to politics and Christianity: surely it was Methodism that gave us early socialists ("Labour owes more to Methodism than Marxism") and Mrs Thatcher, and did she not believe that the corollary of "there's no such thing as society" is that wealthy individuals must help the poor? What was David Cameron's "big society" all about?
You scratch below the bishops though, you find a very different perspective. The c of e clergy (and that of other Christian religions) are very far from being the leftie do gooders you hear higher up the chain.
That doesnt mean they dont take active parts in helping the needy in their communities, just that the automatic solution of more public spending, more regulation which seems to be proposed by the upper echelons of the church is not a unified position.
I never mentioned being a Party Member - but you seem a clearly Labour leaning voter.
So - why are Sikhs and Hindus better off and does that in your view reflect their shift Tory-wise? And is Labour's lead with Christians given it's very wide scope confuse the picture?
The old adage of the Tory Party being synonymous with the CoE seems out of place in that context.
*EDIT I'm ignoring the partial Thatcher quote intentionally*
Remember this is immigrant Christians, so more likely to be Catholic from Africa or Orthodox from Eastern Europe. CoE still is much more Tory than Labour. As I said previously even the current immigrant Christians should all start voting Tory over the next couple of cycles, the attitudes within these communities is one of hard work and getting on in life, much more aligned to the Tories than to Labour.
Police, council and Government investigators launched an investigation last year after reports of many Bangladeshis with Italian passports arriving at Stansted with return flights on the same day.
The probe - by the Metropolitan Police, Redbridge Council in east London and the Department for Work and Pensions - prompted a raid on one flat in Bow used as an address by 400 claimants.
I never mentioned being a Party Member - but you seem a clearly Labour leaning voter.
So - why are Sikhs and Hindus better off and does that in your view reflect their shift Tory-wise? And is Labour's lead with Christians given it's very wide scope confuse the picture?
The old adage of the Tory Party being synonymous with the CoE seems out of place in that context.
*EDIT I'm ignoring the partial Thatcher quote intentionally*
Remember this is immigrant Christians, so more likely to be Catholic from Africa or Orthodox from Eastern Europe. CoE still is much more Tory than Labour. As I said previously even the current immigrant Christians should all start voting Tory over the next couple of cycles, the attitudes within these communities is one of hard work and getting on in life, much more aligned to the Tories than to Labour.
These were a BAME survey, so do not think Orthodox Christians would fearure heavily. Possibly some Egyptian Coptics, but as well as Catholics there are many Pentacostals from Africa, and also from the West Indies. I think the oonly majority Anglican Island is Barbados.
Police, council and Government investigators launched an investigation last year after reports of many Bangladeshis with Italian passports arriving at Stansted with return flights on the same day.
The probe - by the Metropolitan Police, Redbridge Council in east London and the Department for Work and Pensions - prompted a raid on one flat in Bow used as an address by 400 claimants.
It makes you wonder how much fraud was going on. *400* applicants in one address.. FFS. A member of staff at the local council who would have processed this couldnt possibly have missed it. There has to been a blind eye turned to it. It's the same when forty people got registered to vote in one flat above a takeaway. I refuse to believe a member of staff hadnt spotted it and told their supervisor.
Local authorities miss only the things they want to miss, or they find too difficult to tackle. When it comes to planning, building control and car park enforcement, you have never witnessed an officious capacity to enforce everything that can be enforced.
The Artists Rifles[nb 1] is a special forces regiment of the British Army Reserve. Raised in London in 1859 as a volunteer light infantry unit, the regiment saw active service during the Boer Wars and World War I, earning a number of battle honours. It did not serve outside Britain during World War II, as it was used as an officer training unit at that time. The regiment was disbanded in 1945. In 1947, it was re-established to resurrect the Special Air Service Regiment.[2] Today, the full title of the Regiment is 21 Special Air Service Regiment (Artists) (Reserve) (21 SAS(R)) and with 23 Special Air Service Regiment (23 SAS(R)), it is part of the Special Air Service (Reserve) (SAS(R)).
Police, council and Government investigators launched an investigation last year after reports of many Bangladeshis with Italian passports arriving at Stansted with return flights on the same day.
The probe - by the Metropolitan Police, Redbridge Council in east London and the Department for Work and Pensions - prompted a raid on one flat in Bow used as an address by 400 claimants.
It makes you wonder how much fraud was going on. *400* applicants in one address.. FFS. A member of staff at the local council who would have processed this couldnt possibly have missed it. There has to been a blind eye turned to it. It's the same when forty people got registered to vote in one flat above a takeaway. I refuse to believe a member of staff hadnt spotted it and told their supervisor.
Local authorities miss only the things they want to miss, or they find too difficult to tackle. When it comes to planning, building control and car park enforcement, you have never witnessed an officious capacity to enforce everything that can be enforced. I wonder how this fraud came to light? One would hope that to the various systems, processes and computers used, such duplicate applications should stick out like the proverbial sore thumb. One may also wonder how many slightly less egregious examples manage to slip through the net.
You'd like to think it wasn't just because Labour is so closely associated with the Muslims, but there's that nagging doubt....
How does that explain Labour's lead among Christians?
Surely it just reflects wider trends that have nothing to do with skin colour or religion: the more affluent you are, the more you are likely to vote Tory. And Sikhs and Hindus tend to be better off than African and West Indian Christians, or Asian and African Moslems.
Welby and his team sent out that missive to all churches virtually inviting christians to vote Labour. The whole thing was an utter disgrace.
Old Etonian Justin Welby became Archbishop of Canterbury in 2011, so I doubt it was Gordon Brown who recommended his appointment.
It doesn't matter a toss who appointed him, its what he did, I am sure it upset huge numbers of parishioners. it is not the business of the C of E to stick its nose into politics
I blame that Jesus chap, forever banging on about camels and needles, and setting up one-man foodbanks.
I'm sure that Jesus chap would also have something profound to say about helping people into helplessness.
There was a book, Faith In Politics, with chapters by Eric Heffer, John Gummer and Alan Beith, which clearly showed Jesus was a socialist, right wing, liberal sort of fellow.
I think the problem happens when others claim he fits their political philosophy, when it really isnt possible.
It's a long while ago but back in the late 80/early 90s - I worked in industrial temp recruitment. We had about 300 people from Ethiopia who all gave the same living address so they could claim stuff. It was a running joke, but we left them to it - if they got caught, it wasn't our business.
Police, council and Government investigators launched an investigation last year after reports of many Bangladeshis with Italian passports arriving at Stansted with return flights on the same day.
The probe - by the Metropolitan Police, Redbridge Council in east London and the Department for Work and Pensions - prompted a raid on one flat in Bow used as an address by 400 claimants.
It makes you wonder how much fraud was going on. *400* applicants in one address.. FFS. A member of staff at the local council who would have processed this couldnt possibly have missed it. There has to been a blind eye turned to it. It's the same when forty people got registered to vote in one flat above a takeaway. I refuse to believe a member of staff hadnt spotted it and told their supervisor.
Local authorities miss only the things they want to miss, or they find too difficult to tackle. When it comes to planning, building control and car park enforcement, you have never witnessed an officious capacity to enforce everything that can be enforced.
Police, council and Government investigators launched an investigation last year after reports of many Bangladeshis with Italian passports arriving at Stansted with return flights on the same day.
The probe - by the Metropolitan Police, Redbridge Council in east London and the Department for Work and Pensions - prompted a raid on one flat in Bow used as an address by 400 claimants.
It makes you wonder how much fraud was going on. *400* applicants in one address.. FFS. A member of staff at the local council who would have processed this couldnt possibly have missed it. There has to been a blind eye turned to it. It's the same when forty people got registered to vote in one flat above a takeaway. I refuse to believe a member of staff hadnt spotted it and told their supervisor.
Local authorities miss only the things they want to miss, or they find too difficult to tackle. When it comes to planning, building control and car park enforcement, you have never witnessed an officious capacity to enforce everything that can be enforced.
I wonder how this fraud came to light? One would hope that to the various systems, processes and computers used, such duplicate applications should stick out like the proverbial sore thumb. One may also wonder how many slightly less egregious examples manage to slip through the net.
You do not see things that your bosses dont want you to see. With the movement to universal credit and the live interaction with HMRC happening, I wonder if such blind eyeism will be tackled.
Police, council and Government investigators launched an investigation last year after reports of many Bangladeshis with Italian passports arriving at Stansted with return flights on the same day.
The probe - by the Metropolitan Police, Redbridge Council in east London and the Department for Work and Pensions - prompted a raid on one flat in Bow used as an address by 400 claimants.
It makes you wonder how much fraud was going on. *400* applicants in one address.. FFS. A member of staff at the local council who would have processed this couldnt possibly have missed it. There has to been a blind eye turned to it. It's the same when forty people got registered to vote in one flat above a takeaway. I refuse to believe a member of staff hadnt spotted it and told their supervisor.
Local authorities miss only the things they want to miss, or they find too difficult to tackle. When it comes to planning, building control and car park enforcement, you have never witnessed an officious capacity to enforce everything that can be enforced.
Maybe a staff member did report it -- someone must have done. You'd have thought a computer would spot it too, but perhaps there are data protection considerations. Or the banks.
Police, council and Government investigators launched an investigation last year after reports of many Bangladeshis with Italian passports arriving at Stansted with return flights on the same day.
The probe - by the Metropolitan Police, Redbridge Council in east London and the Department for Work and Pensions - prompted a raid on one flat in Bow used as an address by 400 claimants.
It makes you wonder how much fraud was going on. *400* applicants in one address.. FFS. A member of staff at the local council who would have processed this couldnt possibly have missed it. There has to been a blind eye turned to it. It's the same when forty people got registered to vote in one flat above a takeaway. I refuse to believe a member of staff hadnt spotted it and told their supervisor.
Local authorities miss only the things they want to miss, or they find too difficult to tackle. When it comes to planning, building control and car park enforcement, you have never witnessed an officious capacity to enforce everything that can be enforced.
I wonder how this fraud came to light? One would hope that to the various systems, processes and computers used, such duplicate applications should stick out like the proverbial sore thumb. One may also wonder how many slightly less egregious examples manage to slip through the net.
You do not see things that your bosses dont want you to see. With the movement to universal credit and the live interaction with HMRC happening, I wonder if such blind eyeism will be tackled.
Boris rather eloquently describing the Greek problem: with a few added historical references!
The only other way forward is for the Greeks to swallow the German medicine, no matter how nasty it tastes. They will have to make the reforms they have dodged for so long; they will have to purge their bureaucracy of the Byzantine non-jobs; they will have to get people to pay their taxes and to obey the law. In a word, they will have to become a little less Greek and a little more German – and it will hurt.
I have just been looking at the regional election result stats for 1992 and discovered that in England the Tories led Labour by 11.6% that year compared with a 9.4% lead in 2015. On the other hand, Labour's lead in Wales is down sharply - perhaps an unintended consequence of Devolution.
I have just been looking at the regional election result stats for 1992 and discovered that in England the Tories led Labour by 11.6% that year compared with a 9.4% lead in 2015. On the other hand, Labour's lead in Wales is down sharply - perhaps an unintended consequence of Devolution.
How's your hope for Tory MPs to die and eliminate the majority going so far, eh?
Boris rather eloquently describing the Greek problem: with a few added historical references!
The only other way forward is for the Greeks to swallow the German medicine, no matter how nasty it tastes. They will have to make the reforms they have dodged for so long; they will have to purge their bureaucracy of the Byzantine non-jobs; they will have to get people to pay their taxes and to obey the law. In a word, they will have to become a little less Greek and a little more German – and it will hurt.
Boris ignores that the Germans do very nicely out of the current arrangement. The Euro means the Greeks use their over-valued currency to buy goods made in Germany and effectively subsidised by Germany's under-valued currency, without (as there would be in a true federal environment) proper transfer payments. Economics is not a morality tale.
I have just been looking at the regional election result stats for 1992 and discovered that in England the Tories led Labour by 11.6% that year compared with a 9.4% lead in 2015. On the other hand, Labour's lead in Wales is down sharply - perhaps an unintended consequence of Devolution.
How's your hope for Tory MPs to die and eliminate the majority going so far, eh?
Boris rather eloquently describing the Greek problem: with a few added historical references!
The only other way forward is for the Greeks to swallow the German medicine, no matter how nasty it tastes. They will have to make the reforms they have dodged for so long; they will have to purge their bureaucracy of the Byzantine non-jobs; they will have to get people to pay their taxes and to obey the law. In a word, they will have to become a little less Greek and a little more German – and it will hurt.
Boris ignores that the Germans do very nicely out of the current arrangement. The Euro means the Greeks use their over-valued currency to buy goods made in Germany and effectively subsidised by Germany's under-valued currency, without (as there would be in a true federal environment) proper transfer payments. Economics is not a morality tale. Some Germans are undoubtedly happy that the Greeks buy Mercedes and Porsches rather than paying their taxes, but if the German taxpayer has to step in to avoid Greece defaulting to the IMF I doubt the average German will be too happy about it.
Blair seems like a pretty toxic figure within the country tbh; it's only a small group of Blairites within the Conservative party (Cameron, Osborne etc.), and his remaining American admirers who still think Blair is god's greatest gift to the earth. New Labour was great at acquiring power; pretty shite at actually knowing what to do with it, though.
Amazingly stupid analysis on virtually every level.
The habit on PB of simply dismissing something rather than actually responding with a coherent argument strikes again.
A deal is in place between Greece and the EU - which offers Greece maturity extensions, interest rate cuts, a partial interest holiday and repayments linked to Greed GDP. In return for which, Greece agrees to structural reforms, and to maintain a primary budget surplus of a certain level. However, the IMF is the hold-out currently, and is demanding an (admittedly modest) increase in the Greece VAT rate to try and (a) lower Greece's reliance on private sector consumption, and (b) bring the deficit down more quickly. (As an aside, a VAT rise would also fall on tourists coming to Greece, and would therefore be a better tax rise than income tax.)
It is unclear whether the deal currently broadly agreed between the EU states and Greece will be acceptable to SYRIZA hardliners (I would say probably not, but it is an amazing deal, and I think Tsipras knows this).
In this context, it's no coincidence that the Greeks are "going after" the IMF at the moment, and threatening to default on June payments to the institution.
This is a very high stakes poker game, because if Greece does leave the Euro, it will need the IMF as a partner. It's worth noting that there is currently an enormous amount of pressure from the White House for the IMF to soften its stance. (The IMF, which is currently worried about defaults in Venezuela, Ecuador, and a few other South American countries, feels that bowing the pressure over Greece could cause it more problems in the autumn when it's negotiating with failed commodity states...)
Blair seems like a pretty toxic figure within the country tbh; it's only a small group of Blairites within the Conservative party (Cameron, Osborne etc.), and his remaining American admirers who still think Blair is god's greatest gift to the earth. New Labour was great at acquiring power; pretty shite at actually knowing what to do with it, though.
Amazingly stupid analysis on virtually every level.
The habit on PB of simply dismissing something rather than actually responding with a coherent argument strikes again.
Flightpath has the advantage of being right, though.
Looks like Carmichael's SPAD may have been a bit loose lipped:
The significance of the McColm tweet is that it provides evidence that Carmichael was indeed an MP when he authorised the leaking and therefore puts him bang in line for standards investigation.
If all politicians who lied were kicked out they would be thin on the ground
Lies happen, if not as often as one might think, but the key is most are not caught in the lie, certainly not so soon after it.
I have just been looking at the regional election result stats for 1992 and discovered that in England the Tories led Labour by 11.6% that year compared with a 9.4% lead in 2015. On the other hand, Labour's lead in Wales is down sharply - perhaps an unintended consequence of Devolution.
How's your hope for Tory MPs to die and eliminate the majority going so far, eh?
Tomorrow we pass the 1% point of ths Parliament so it is still a trifle early.
Blair seems like a pretty toxic figure within the country tbh; it's only a small group of Blairites within the Conservative party (Cameron, Osborne etc.), and his remaining American admirers who still think Blair is god's greatest gift to the earth. New Labour was great at acquiring power; pretty shite at actually knowing what to do with it, though.
Mr Blair was a FANTASTIC vote winner for Labour. Or indeed any Party he fronted - imagine if he'd been a LD?
But he developed a Messiah complex and was scared of Gordon. That's a toxic mix using any yardstick.
And I say this as someone who was chuffed to see my vote for Tony in 1997 win a landslide.
Blair seems like a pretty toxic figure within the country tbh; it's only a small group of Blairites within the Conservative party (Cameron, Osborne etc.), and his remaining American admirers who still think Blair is god's greatest gift to the earth. New Labour was great at acquiring power; pretty shite at actually knowing what to do with it, though.
Amazingly stupid analysis on virtually every level.
The habit on PB of simply dismissing something rather than actually responding with a coherent argument strikes again.
Flightpath has the advantage of being right, though.
Blair seems like a pretty toxic figure within the country tbh; it's only a small group of Blairites within the Conservative party (Cameron, Osborne etc.), and his remaining American admirers who still think Blair is god's greatest gift to the earth. New Labour was great at acquiring power; pretty shite at actually knowing what to do with it, though.
Amazingly stupid analysis on virtually every level.
The habit on PB of simply dismissing something rather than actually responding with a coherent argument strikes again.
Flightpath has the advantage of being right, though.
I which case a bit of evidence would be easy to find!
Police, council and Government investigators launched an investigation last year after reports of many Bangladeshis with Italian passports arriving at Stansted with return flights on the same day.
The probe - by the Metropolitan Police, Redbridge Council in east London and the Department for Work and Pensions - prompted a raid on one flat in Bow used as an address by 400 claimants.
You do not see things that your bosses dont want you to see. With the movement to universal credit and the live interaction with HMRC happening, I wonder if such blind eyeism will be tackled.
Very much so. UC is a fascinating project though, im not surprised it has been besieged with failings. It truly is a holy grail. It will have teething problems though.
What the government has managed to do is turn two dead reactive systems. PAYE and social security into two connected real time live systems.
Stage one was HMRC going live. That happened in 2013. Now (with very very few exceptions) all employees tax information is entered into a live database. That means the amount of tax you pay this month on your PAYE earnings, HMRC know about it. Whether you work at Tescos, or a local sandwich shop. This has been up and running now for eighteen months.
Stage two Universal Credit. This was actually trickier. Because you werent, as with PAYE, putting one system online, with quite simple variables, completed by people who are familiar with and understand tax. UC was also the attempt to mush together a whole series of out of work and in work benefits, with the applicant getting a figure which was also dependent on the real time earnings collated by HMRC.
One of the major problems with welfare is that it is quite difficult to come off and go back on. If you are offered a three month contract at a local factory it is not worth your while to come off the dole to do it.
UC fixes that, your UC is tapered as your income increases making you better off working. As the job ends your UC increases to back to what it was.
I have just been looking at the regional election result stats for 1992 and discovered that in England the Tories led Labour by 11.6% that year compared with a 9.4% lead in 2015. On the other hand, Labour's lead in Wales is down sharply - perhaps an unintended consequence of Devolution.
How's your hope for Tory MPs to die and eliminate the majority going so far, eh?
Tomorrow we pass the 1% point of ths Parliament so it is still a trifle early.
Blair seems like a pretty toxic figure within the country tbh; it's only a small group of Blairites within the Conservative party (Cameron, Osborne etc.), and his remaining American admirers who still think Blair is god's greatest gift to the earth. New Labour was great at acquiring power; pretty shite at actually knowing what to do with it, though.
Amazingly stupid analysis on virtually every level.
The habit on PB of simply dismissing something rather than actually responding with a coherent argument strikes again.
Flightpath has the advantage of being right, though.
Be it right or wrong I don't see how it can be 'amazingly stupid', as it seems a fairly common analysis of Blair and New Labour.
Blair seems like a pretty toxic figure within the country tbh; it's only a small group of Blairites within the Conservative party (Cameron, Osborne etc.), and his remaining American admirers who still think Blair is god's greatest gift to the earth. New Labour was great at acquiring power; pretty shite at actually knowing what to do with it, though.
Amazingly stupid analysis on virtually every level.
The habit on PB of simply dismissing something rather than actually responding with a coherent argument strikes again.
Flightpath has the advantage of being right, though.
It seems like others disagree; such as Plato and in the previous thread, @Fishing did, too. Rather than simply dismiss the POV I gave, it'd be nice if you or Flightpath actually made an argument in response as to why you think it's a wrong analysis.
I'd have thought they'd be No voters (i.e. against leaving). Some might well be sceptical about the EU (people often are very sceptical about their employers) but actually leaving could have dramatic consequences for many of them.
Re the comment from Omar Khan, people who move to an area often come to adopt the political outlook that prevails there. That's probably as true of BME voters moving out into the Home Counties as anybody. Whereas those who remain in Labour-voting areas of London remain committed to Labour.
That's right. Broxtowe is typical there - prosperous area near a city: people make some money and move out. You can't look at their ethnic background and deduce anything useful about their votes.
Notme's account is sobering for all of us. It's worth noting that the "left behind" people he describes tend not to vote at all.
The logistics in voting and the time involved make it difficult to expect a high turnout from them. It should be better than a planned GE which (I guess) is as low as 10% (of 2m), maybe 30% of them as a punt?
I have just been looking at the regional election result stats for 1992 and discovered that in England the Tories led Labour by 11.6% that year compared with a 9.4% lead in 2015. On the other hand, Labour's lead in Wales is down sharply - perhaps an unintended consequence of Devolution.
How's your hope for Tory MPs to die and eliminate the majority going so far, eh?
Tomorrow we pass the 1% point of ths Parliament so it is still a trifle early.
I have just been looking at the regional election result stats for 1992 and discovered that in England the Tories led Labour by 11.6% that year compared with a 9.4% lead in 2015. On the other hand, Labour's lead in Wales is down sharply - perhaps an unintended consequence of Devolution.
How's your hope for Tory MPs to die and eliminate the majority going so far, eh?
Tomorrow we pass the 1% point of ths Parliament so it is still a trifle early.
In recent times we have not had many by elections caused by death. More often by resignation either for conviction (Rochester, Clacton), convictions (Eastleigh, Rotherham) or change of career (Leicester South, Corby).
I generally consider myself as a socially liberal, fiscally tight member of the Blue Team. I voted for Tony because I felt he was a more credible leader than the Tory's offering and he seemed *to get* that being a spendaholic was dead.
Because he was scared of Gordon, we got Spendenomics after 2000. And look where we ended up.
And Tony was really only interested in winning votes - all the hard reform of the public sector fell on fallow ground. But Labour gave billions in wage hikes to the public sector to buy them off being Tory-Lite.
And then the lies of Iraq. If a Tory HMG had lied to us like that - I'd be even more appalled - and that's very hard to achieve.
Blair seems like a pretty toxic figure within the country tbh; it's only a small group of Blairites within the Conservative party (Cameron, Osborne etc.), and his remaining American admirers who still think Blair is god's greatest gift to the earth. New Labour was great at acquiring power; pretty shite at actually knowing what to do with it, though.
Amazingly stupid analysis on virtually every level.
The habit on PB of simply dismissing something rather than actually responding with a coherent argument strikes again.
Flightpath has the advantage of being right, though.
It seems like others disagree; such as Plato and in the previous thread, @Fishing did, too. Rather than simply dismiss the POV I gave, it'd be nice if you or Flightpath actually made an argument in response as to why you think it's a wrong analysis.
I'd have thought they'd be No voters (i.e. against leaving). Some might well be sceptical about the EU (people often are very sceptical about their employers) but actually leaving could have dramatic consequences for many of them.
You do not see things that your bosses dont want you to see. With the movement to universal credit and the live interaction with HMRC happening, I wonder if such blind eyeism will be tackled.
Very much so. UC is a fascinating project though, im not surprised it has been besieged with failings. It truly is a holy grail. It will have teething problems though.
What the government has managed to do is turn two dead reactive systems. PAYE and social security into two connected real time live systems.
Stage one was HMRC going live. That happened in 2013. Now (with very very few exceptions) all employees tax information is entered into a live database. That means the amount of tax you pay this month on your PAYE earnings, HMRC know about it. Whether you work at Tescos, or a local sandwich shop. This has been up and running now for eighteen months.
Stage two Universal Credit. This was actually trickier. Because you werent, as with PAYE, putting one system online, with quite simple variables, completed by people who are familiar with and understand tax. UC was also the attempt to mush together a whole series of out of work and in work benefits, with the applicant getting a figure which was also dependent on the real time earnings collated by HMRC.
One of the major problems with welfare is that it is quite difficult to come off and go back on. If you are offered a three month contract at a local factory it is not worth your while to come off the dole to do it.
UC fixes that, your UC is tapered as your income increases making you better off working. As the job ends your UC increases to back to what it was.
Very much agree with that post.
The work done by IDS in opposition over a number of years was quite staggering in its depth and understanding of the issues and how to resolve them. In government he and his department have been getting on with the implementation with surprisingly little controversy, especially given the scale of the undertaking.
He understands the base. Only met him once, but he's not daft. I think he's lying a lot about Blairism, but he gets the mood using different language - it's the same thing - just less pointy.
Former Labour deputy prime minister Lord Prescott launched a blistering attack on the party's leadership contenders this morning - dismissing their 'meaningless' campaigns.
The party grandee ridiculed the four declared candidates for constantly claiming Labour needed to do more to appeal to voters with 'aspiration'.
Lord Prescott he did not know 'what the heck' the Blairite mantra meant and urged the contenders to return to bread and butter issues like housing and the NHS.
The Labour peer also savaged Ed Miliband's election campaign, claiming voters did not see him as a leader, and said the party had failed to show it was 'competent' on the economy.
Lord Prescott revealed Mr Miliband had rejecting his proposals for the party to introduce policies to help people without a deposit to buy their first home.
He said he had privately called for party to offer a 'rent-to-buy policy' – a move adopted by the Lib Dems before the election – which would have allowed people to gradually build up equity in a home they were renting.
A deal is in place between Greece and the EU - which offers Greece maturity extensions, interest rate cuts, a partial interest holiday and repayments linked to Greed GDP. In return for which, Greece agrees to structural reforms, and to maintain a primary budget surplus of a certain level. However, the IMF is the hold-out currently, and is demanding an (admittedly modest) increase in the Greece VAT rate to try and (a) lower Greece's reliance on private sector consumption, and (b) bring the deficit down more quickly. (As an aside, a VAT rise would also fall on tourists coming to Greece, and would therefore be a better tax rise than income tax.)
"(As an aside, a VAT rise would also fall on tourists coming to Greece, and would therefore be a better tax rise than income tax.)"
The only problem being that the Greek tourist trade is already falling apart at the seams and a VAT increase might well prove to be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Anyone checked out the cost of a BigMac in Athens recently?
Comments
In my experience people care more about the economy and their job security than the colour of their skin or any perceived racism by the "1%" Labour bang on about so much. The Tories went into the election offering economic security and jobs rather than any specific identity politics like Labour. It has paid off with groups who aren't in a state of perpetual victimhood and it isn't worth changing the current strategy to appeal to them like Labour did as I think it will turn away as many people as it will attract.
As a party the Conservatives have a very bright future if they can continue to just put out policies for everyone rather than divide people up into interest groups. Winning from the centre is the only way forwards, trying to appeal to different groups based on their skin colour will only end badly.
That said BAME is a nonsense term and very different people should not be lumped together.
Incidentally, there was a very interesting discussion on IS ideology and deradicalisation this morning on the Today programme at about 8:20 am with Tom Holland, the historian. Well worth listening to.
In other news, an utter disgrace that the former Childrens Commissioner who failed to speak up about the abuse of young girls by British Asian gangs has had a humungous pay off and is now charging the same again for her consultancy services. I do hope this sort of thing will be stopped.
http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/BFBME-Tables-25-05-15.pdf
Then we could see whether, as is argued 'In America, race trumps class, in Britain, class trumps race.'
That's certainly been my experience - I have much more in common with people of similar educational backgrounds, irrespective of race, than I do with my former neighbours from the WWC housing scheme I grew up in......
Do give them a try. I'm an Art History nerd [1500-1750]. ITV does some great stuff too - the portrait by Eddie Redmayne, on war artists on last night was super and should be on ITVPlayer.
Those who think only the BBC can do this stuff well is very wrong. Or blinkered.
The Times was utterly scathing about her failure to accept that there was a problem with grooming and rape of young girls in Northern towns by gangs of British Pakistani men and wrote that she accused the Times (whose journalist, Andrew Norfolk, deserves every award going) of "prejudice and stereotyping".
They say: "The allegation was unforgivable. Despite being paid handsomely to safeguard chilren, Ms Berelowitz would not have know where to begin compiling her half-baked report but for the efforts of our reporter, Andrew Norfolk, who first exposed the prevalence of abuse by men of largely Pakistani origin. This woman's retirement is entirely welcome. Would that it were more complete and less lucrative.
Hear hear.
Perhaps Welby can re-engage with the Church of England via a happy clappy video?
People like her, and her family didnt 'succeed' in life, my definition of success might seem quite shallow, when i use it to refer to accumulation of assets. Destined to remain council tenants for eternity. The area we lived was difficult. Lots of people my age involved in petty criminal behaviour.
My mum insisted on me going to a school outside of the area, for both primary and secondary. For the primary school she lied and said we lived at my uncle's house when my elder sister started school as he lived closer to the school, for me as a sibling I got into the school.
From going to two reasonable schools, i ended up at university, my sister also, went to university and is a senior nurse/ward manager at a local hospital. I run my own business.
Neither of us have anything in common anymore with the people we left behind in that council estate, despite both living there our entire childhood.
Our attitudes, values, horizons are completely at odds. When i step back, if im ever visiting people on the estate i grew up on, it is quite depressing how their lives are lived.
It's all about managing on mediocre amounts of money, eligibility for crisis loans (which has more or less being stopped), how many points they need to be able to bid on the latest housing association property etc.
There's no thirst or hunger to aspire to anything. I suppose I would be considered a class traitor.
The saying is that it's the first million that's the hardest. But, from my observations, it isnt those that have millions and those that have nothing that we see the big differences. It's those that have something, and those that have nothing.
If you have your own home, you have already given yourself and your children an enormous step up in life.
My suggestion, is that the divide is between those who own their own homes, and those that dont.
Miss Plato, it clashed with something else I think, but Ch5 had a castle documentary series quite recently, I think. Might still be up on Demand 5.
Has BBC2 only one presenter nowadays? That Scottish bloke who wears a scarf? He's on almost everything I trip over.
Poor lad ;-)
It's also worth noting they never made inscriptions using Arial.
We've now got about 70 overs more (it's 20 mins to Lunch) to get the other seven men out. Would be easy if it weren't England, let's see if the Kiwis try and chase the total or play safe for the draw.
That is - and I yield to no-one in my condemnation of crime and wrongdoing in the financial sector - far worse than what the Goodwins of this world did. Rape is an appalling crime. Rape of childen is despicable. And it is happening in our towns and to Yazidi girls and to countless others, animated in part by a deeply regressive view of women, particularly of non-Muslim women.
But, hey, who cares. We can all congratulate ourselves on how liberal we are, voting for gay marriage (a measure I support).
But while we all preen ourselves on our progressive credentials and our pink buses and women standing for Labour party leader, we are failing women in far more fundamental ways: not protecting women and girls from abuse, from not being forced into sex/marriage, from not being sold into slavery, from being denied the right to a life chosen by them. Feminism in this country seems to me, in some of my more despairing moments, to have allied itself with some revoltingly illiberal ideologies into arguing that the only right which a woman should have should be the right to shroud herself in a black veil.
A severe tightening of hiring contract staff who have "retired" (with large payoff) from the same department is also in order.
Makes me wonder about writing a comedic history, focusing on blunders and the like, and having a Sir Edric type sarcastic take on it (Varro reporting to the Senate after Cannae, that sort of thing). I think it'd be fun to write, but I'm not sure there's a market for it.
I can't help feeling its quite substantial.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/isis-is-torturing-enslaving-and-murdering-women-at-a-stagger
Yet there still seems to be a desire by teenagers to become jihadi brides...
Anyway, time for me to go exercise.
So - why are Sikhs and Hindus better off and does that in your view reflect their shift Tory-wise? And is Labour's lead with Christians given it's very wide scope confuse the picture?
The old adage of the Tory Party being synonymous with the CoE seems out of place in that context.
*EDIT I'm ignoring the partial Thatcher quote intentionally*
That doesnt mean they dont take active parts in helping the needy in their communities, just that the automatic solution of more public spending, more regulation which seems to be proposed by the upper echelons of the church is not a unified position.
Local authorities miss only the things they want to miss, or they find too difficult to tackle. When it comes to planning, building control and car park enforcement, you have never witnessed an officious capacity to enforce everything that can be enforced.
Just the decorations alone make it worth a read
Local authorities miss only the things they want to miss, or they find too difficult to tackle. When it comes to planning, building control and car park enforcement, you have never witnessed an officious capacity to enforce everything that can be enforced.
I wonder how this fraud came to light? One would hope that to the various systems, processes and computers used, such duplicate applications should stick out like the proverbial sore thumb. One may also wonder how many slightly less egregious examples manage to slip through the net.
Local authorities miss only the things they want to miss, or they find too difficult to tackle. When it comes to planning, building control and car park enforcement, you have never witnessed an officious capacity to enforce everything that can be enforced.
You do not see things that your bosses dont want you to see. With the movement to universal credit and the live interaction with HMRC happening, I wonder if such blind eyeism will be tackled.
Local authorities miss only the things they want to miss, or they find too difficult to tackle. When it comes to planning, building control and car park enforcement, you have never witnessed an officious capacity to enforce everything that can be enforced.
Maybe a staff member did report it -- someone must have done. You'd have thought a computer would spot it too, but perhaps there are data protection considerations. Or the banks.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3095935/Ethnic-minority-support-Tories-DOUBLED-election-ONE-MILLION-black-Asian-voters-backed-Cameron.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
https://twitter.com/sunbeam007/status/602814707041509376
Boris ignores that the Germans do very nicely out of the current arrangement. The Euro means the Greeks use their over-valued currency to buy goods made in Germany and effectively subsidised by Germany's under-valued currency, without (as there would be in a true federal environment) proper transfer payments. Economics is not a morality tale.
Some Germans are undoubtedly happy that the Greeks buy Mercedes and Porsches rather than paying their taxes, but if the German taxpayer has to step in to avoid Greece defaulting to the IMF I doubt the average German will be too happy about it.
A deal is in place between Greece and the EU - which offers Greece maturity extensions, interest rate cuts, a partial interest holiday and repayments linked to Greed GDP. In return for which, Greece agrees to structural reforms, and to maintain a primary budget surplus of a certain level. However, the IMF is the hold-out currently, and is demanding an (admittedly modest) increase in the Greece VAT rate to try and (a) lower Greece's reliance on private sector consumption, and (b) bring the deficit down more quickly. (As an aside, a VAT rise would also fall on tourists coming to Greece, and would therefore be a better tax rise than income tax.)
It is unclear whether the deal currently broadly agreed between the EU states and Greece will be acceptable to SYRIZA hardliners (I would say probably not, but it is an amazing deal, and I think Tsipras knows this).
In this context, it's no coincidence that the Greeks are "going after" the IMF at the moment, and threatening to default on June payments to the institution.
This is a very high stakes poker game, because if Greece does leave the Euro, it will need the IMF as a partner. It's worth noting that there is currently an enormous amount of pressure from the White House for the IMF to soften its stance. (The IMF, which is currently worried about defaults in Venezuela, Ecuador, and a few other South American countries, feels that bowing the pressure over Greece could cause it more problems in the autumn when it's negotiating with failed commodity states...)
But he developed a Messiah complex and was scared of Gordon. That's a toxic mix using any yardstick.
And I say this as someone who was chuffed to see my vote for Tony in 1997 win a landslide.
Very much so. UC is a fascinating project though, im not surprised it has been besieged with failings. It truly is a holy grail. It will have teething problems though.
What the government has managed to do is turn two dead reactive systems. PAYE and social security into two connected real time live systems.
Stage one was HMRC going live. That happened in 2013. Now (with very very few exceptions) all employees tax information is entered into a live database. That means the amount of tax you pay this month on your PAYE earnings, HMRC know about it. Whether you work at Tescos, or a local sandwich shop. This has been up and running now for eighteen months.
Stage two Universal Credit. This was actually trickier. Because you werent, as with PAYE, putting one system online, with quite simple variables, completed by people who are familiar with and understand tax. UC was also the attempt to mush together a whole series of out of work and in work benefits, with the applicant getting a figure which was also dependent on the real time earnings collated by HMRC.
One of the major problems with welfare is that it is quite difficult to come off and go back on. If you are offered a three month contract at a local factory it is not worth your while to come off the dole to do it.
UC fixes that, your UC is tapered as your income increases making you better off working. As the job ends your UC increases to back to what it was.
Either you're trolling or need to press the humanity reset button.
Notme's account is sobering for all of us. It's worth noting that the "left behind" people he describes tend not to vote at all.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32873965
Because he was scared of Gordon, we got Spendenomics after 2000. And look where we ended up.
And Tony was really only interested in winning votes - all the hard reform of the public sector fell on fallow ground. But Labour gave billions in wage hikes to the public sector to buy them off being Tory-Lite.
And then the lies of Iraq. If a Tory HMG had lied to us like that - I'd be even more appalled - and that's very hard to achieve.
http://t.co/u2MFFI27f9
The work done by IDS in opposition over a number of years was quite staggering in its depth and understanding of the issues and how to resolve them. In government he and his department have been getting on with the implementation with surprisingly little controversy, especially given the scale of the undertaking.
The only problem being that the Greek tourist trade is already falling apart at the seams and a VAT increase might well prove to be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Anyone checked out the cost of a BigMac in Athens recently?