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  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    SeanT said:

    Anecdote klaxon.

    My mum - classic, classic middle Britain (or middle Cornwall) - soft centre, working class Cornishwoman, with A Levels, who liked that nice mister Blair and also admires local Lib Dems, but thinks Cameron is doing OK - was RANTING about Sturgeon and Salmond this evening. Real anger at the perception of Scots who want to have the autonomy cake but eat England's cake, too.

    This could turn the election.

    Yep, everyone will realise how crucial it is that Labour gets a majority.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546

    TGOHF said:
    Not really. In case you missed it loads of people on here have criticised that poll today and most of the critics certainly weren't UKIP supporters.
    For the best part of two years, TGOHF has been assuring us that every poll shows UKIP in decline, but here we are a fortnight from the election, and Anthony Wells has us on 14%.
  • JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    SeanT said:

    Anecdote klaxon.

    My mum - classic, classic middle Britain (or middle Cornwall) - soft centre, working class Cornishwoman, with A Levels, who liked that nice mister Blair and also admires local Lib Dems, but thinks Cameron is doing OK - was RANTING about Sturgeon and Salmond this evening. Real anger at the perception of Scots who want to have the autonomy cake but eat England's cake, too.

    This could turn the election.

    So Tory voter outraged by SNP.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Seconded, absolutely disgraceful. Does he mention it in his radio interviews.
    Rather rude to our host
    I'll criticise anyone who does something wrong, rude or not.

    Truth to power, etc.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Still EICIPM with these

    http://electionforecast.co.uk/
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    TGOHF said:
    Not really. In case you missed it loads of people on here have criticised that poll today and most of the critics certainly weren't UKIP supporters.
    Didn't look much wrong with it to me. Though it is a PB truth that unfavourable polls are outliers and can be safely discarded.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Mirror Politics ‏@MirrorPolitics 6m6 minutes ago
    Thanet Tory candidate owns website set up to encourage Hungarians come to UK for low paid work http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farages-tory-challenger-owns-5565777

    Farage is going to use that alright.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Seconded, absolutely disgraceful. Does he mention it in his radio interviews.
    Rather rude to our host
    I'll criticise anyone who does something wrong, rude or not.

    Truth to power, etc.
    Or, as in this case, somebody who hasn't done something wrong.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
  • Not besties...

    Dan Hodges‏@DPJHodges·3 mins3 minutes ago London, England
    Odd. Lesson independent academic @GoodwinMJ learns from poll of Ukip target seats is they're being squeezed in non-target seats...

    Dan Hodges‏@DPJHodges·2 mins2 minutes ago London, England
    It's almost as if @GoodwinMJ is trying to rebut the findings...
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited April 2015
    Pong said:

    @mikesmithson

    Do you still think the LD's are value to retake Montgomeryshire? (Currently 9/4)

    I understand they're fighting hard on the ground.

    They’re not. Drive along the A458 from Welshpool to Mach (which traverses the constituency).

    The fields are festooned in blue posters. There are LibDem diamonds in Welshpool, but I have never seen so many Tory posters in the Welsh countryside.

    I think the best the LibDems can do this time is put themselves in a good position for 2020 when Glyn Davies likely retires.

    I have no sympathy for the LibDems in the seat, having foisted London lawyers and Estonian playboys on mid-Wales. At least their current candidate has some connections to the constituency, so I can envisage her recapturing it in 2020, once the memory of Lembit has faded.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Is Nigel Farage planning a disruptive pub crawl on election day in Vince's manor ?!?

  • Eh_ehm_a_ehEh_ehm_a_eh Posts: 552

    Mirror Politics ‏@MirrorPolitics 6m6 minutes ago
    Thanet Tory candidate owns website set up to encourage Hungarians come to UK for low paid work http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farages-tory-challenger-owns-5565777

    This could turn the election.


  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Seconded, absolutely disgraceful. Does he mention it in his radio interviews.
    Rather rude to our host
    I'll criticise anyone who does something wrong, rude or not.

    Truth to power, etc.
    Or, as in this case, somebody who hasn't done something wrong.
    I think it's wrong, not illegal.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited April 2015

    TGOHF said:
    Not really. In case you missed it loads of people on here have criticised that poll today and most of the critics certainly weren't UKIP supporters.
    Didn't look much wrong with it to me. Though it is a PB truth that unfavourable polls are outliers and can be safely discarded.
    1000 strong sample size across 10 constituencies, a number of which are not target seats, was never going to give them a particularly impressive percentage.

    It hasn't really changed my opinion. As mentioned before a couple of constituency polls would have been preferable.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    ComRes ‏@ComResPolls 15s15 seconds ago
    Tune in to @ITVNews in 5 mins for results of our exclusive poll of UKIP target seats #GE2015 http://bit.ly/1OeYNAw
  • Eh_ehm_a_ehEh_ehm_a_eh Posts: 552
    Ave_it said:

    I went for a walk one day
    In the merry month of May
    Miliband didn't know what to do
    Until he got his orders from you know who!

    This could turn the election.

  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    SeanT said:

    Anecdote klaxon.

    My mum - classic, classic middle Britain (or middle Cornwall) - soft centre, working class Cornishwoman, with A Levels, who liked that nice mister Blair and also admires local Lib Dems, but thinks Cameron is doing OK - was RANTING about Sturgeon and Salmond this evening. Real anger at the perception of Scots who want to have the autonomy cake but eat England's cake, too.

    This could turn the election.

    Reaction to SeanTs daily hysterical hyperbole post .........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
    Yeah, I can't think of a more egregious subversion of democracy than somebody deciding how to cast their own vote based on criteria they choose. Only votes carefully calculated from the Official List Of Valid Reasons To Vote are okay, everything else is morally reprehensible.
  • Eh_ehm_a_ehEh_ehm_a_eh Posts: 552
    Alistair said:

    @Pulpstar don't know if you saw earlier but Dunfermline & West Fife is a 8000 vote SNP majority by the all might forecasting of SMAPS.

    This could turn the election.

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300

    Mirror Politics ‏@MirrorPolitics 6m6 minutes ago
    Thanet Tory candidate owns website set up to encourage Hungarians come to UK for low paid work http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farages-tory-challenger-owns-5565777

    Looks as if The Mirror has been sitting on that story for a while. Must be worried if they held on to it until now.

    Re - Drove through quite a chunk of Montgomeryshire on Monday, and saw plenty of Dodds LD and Davies Con posters - more Davies than Dodd posters. Didn't notice any PC or Labour posters there.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    ComRes ‏@ComResPolls 15s15 seconds ago
    Tune in to @ITVNews in 5 mins for results of our exclusive poll of UKIP target seats #GE2015 http://bit.ly/1OeYNAw

    Or they could have gone to the ITV website a few hours ago to read the results.
  • JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
    Thanks

    FPTP doesn't work if people do that. You might get people electing their 4th choice just because it's not their 5th choice!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Seconded, absolutely disgraceful. Does he mention it in his radio interviews.
    Rather rude to our host
    I'll criticise anyone who does something wrong, rude or not.

    Truth to power, etc.
    Or, as in this case, somebody who hasn't done something wrong.
    I think it's wrong, not illegal.
    This could turn the Election its a disgrace!!

    Riots in Twickenham will make the Mansion Tax riots look tame.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    TGOHF said:

    St George's day tomorrow - last one before our new Scotch overlords write our budgets.

    Are Glenmorangie about to run the country ?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    SeanT said:

    Anecdote klaxon.

    My mum - classic, classic middle Britain (or middle Cornwall) - soft centre, working class Cornishwoman, with A Levels, who liked that nice mister Blair and also admires local Lib Dems, but thinks Cameron is doing OK - was RANTING about Sturgeon and Salmond this evening. Real anger at the perception of Scots who want to have the autonomy cake but eat England's cake, too.

    This could turn the election.

    Yep, everyone will realise how crucial it is that Labour gets a majority.
    And how they cannot do anything to achieve that, since in no realistic scenario does it look possible without Scottish voters realising the same, and they are doing the opposite.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
    Yeah, I can't think of a more egregious subversion of democracy than somebody deciding how to cast their own vote based on criteria they choose. Only votes carefully calculated from the Official List Of Valid Reasons To Vote are okay, everything else is morally reprehensible.
    It's a subversion of the principle that we have a system based on local constituencies.

    The right of the people of Twickenham to select their representative is paramount.

    The LibDems advocated a change in the rules and the people rejected it. So they should abide by that decision not circumnavigate it.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    Anecdote klaxon.

    My mum - classic, classic middle Britain (or middle Cornwall) - soft centre, working class Cornishwoman, with A Levels, who liked that nice mister Blair and also admires local Lib Dems, but thinks Cameron is doing OK - was RANTING about Sturgeon and Salmond this evening. Real anger at the perception of Scots who want to have the autonomy cake but eat England's cake, too.

    This could turn the election.

    Yep, everyone will realise how crucial it is that Labour gets a majority.
    And how they cannot do anything to achieve that, since in no realistic scenario does it look possible without Scottish voters realising the same, and they are doing the opposite.
    Well no chance for a Tory majority either.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    JackW said:

    Floater said:

    JackW said:

    Floater said:

    More leaflets including one from the Lib Dems which is dressed up to look like a free local paper.

    Claiming entire credit for the 8 billion more for NHS AND claiming tories oppose it! (bit cheeky).

    Another leaflet claiming the tory candidate was useless for failing to stop something the Lib Dem mP.... failed to stop.

    Plus more posts on facebook from the Councillor (LD) still making unfounded accusations about the tories,, but at least he given up on the "no blacks" smear now.

    For a place supposedly in the bag they really are putting the effort in (Clegg was here not that long ago too).

    Apologies old chap but which seat are you reporting on?

    Sorry, Colchester.
    It might seem strange but if you have a good local party machine in a safe seat but no other local targets you're not going to soft peddle and not use it.

    And I get the impression that Sir Bob likes to play the "Mr Colchester" card and to do so you have to be up front and big with it.

    no one doubts that Sir Bob works hard.

    I have said before he did us a big turn when we first moved to the area, but dear god does he like to tell his "war" stories
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300

    Pong said:

    @mikesmithson

    Do you still think the LD's are value to retake Montgomeryshire? (Currently 9/4)

    I understand they're fighting hard on the ground.

    They’re not. Drive along the A458 from Welshpool to Mach (which traverses the constituency).

    The fields are festooned in blue posters. There are LibDem diamonds in Welshpool, but I have never seen so many Tory posters in the Welsh countryside.

    I think the best the LibDems can do this time is put themselves in a good position for 2020 when Glyn Davies likely retires.

    I have no sympathy for the LibDems in the seat, having foisted London lawyers and Estonian playboys on mid-Wales. At least their current candidate has some connections to the constituency, so I can envisage her recapturing it in 2020, once the memory of Lembit has faded.
    Re - Drove through quite a chunk of Montgomeryshire on Monday, and saw plenty of Dodds LD and Davies Con posters - more Davies than Dodd posters. Didn't notice any PC or Labour posters there.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Speedy said:

    ComRes ‏@ComResPolls 15s15 seconds ago
    Tune in to @ITVNews in 5 mins for results of our exclusive poll of UKIP target seats #GE2015 http://bit.ly/1OeYNAw

    Or they could have gone to the ITV website a few hours ago to read the results.
    Or joined the previous PB thread
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
    But , of course , it is quite ok for people with a 2nd home in Cornwall and live there 2 or 3 weeks a year to use their vote to subvert the local constituents' wishes
  • Mirror Politics ‏@MirrorPolitics 6m6 minutes ago
    Thanet Tory candidate owns website set up to encourage Hungarians come to UK for low paid work http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farages-tory-challenger-owns-5565777

    This could turn the election.


    Notsure.

    Locally it is very clear-you either love or loath Nigel

    Not much in the middle.

    I just dont accept labour so close.
    Nothing on the ground makes me think it is anything other than a VERY tight UKIP v Tory fight.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited April 2015

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    I believe Mr Smithson has arranged by agreement to vote for the candidate someone in Twickenham would prefer win in his seat, with that person promising to vote LD in Twickenham.

    Although leaving a sour taste in the mouth for some (including me), it is not illegal and the locals in both areas have not had their rights diminished in any way, since all it is is someone on Twickenham choosing how to cast his own vote just like any other election, just in an unorthodox manner by way of a gentleman's agreement.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
    Yeah, I can't think of a more egregious subversion of democracy than somebody deciding how to cast their own vote based on criteria they choose. Only votes carefully calculated from the Official List Of Valid Reasons To Vote are okay, everything else is morally reprehensible.
    It's a subversion of the principle that we have a system based on local constituencies.

    The right of the people of Twickenham to select their representative is paramount.

    The LibDems advocated a change in the rules and the people rejected it. So they should abide by that decision not circumnavigate it.
    The right of the people of Twickenham who aren't Mike, you mean? Because you seem to think it's paramount that he DOESN'T get the right to choose his representative. Or at least doesn't get to choose them by means you don't approve of.

    If I roll a die to choose who I vote for, does that also undermine the rights of my neighbours? What if I vote tactically? What if I try to vote for who I want but I just don't pay quite as much attention to the parties' campaigns as I should?
  • Eh_ehm_a_ehEh_ehm_a_eh Posts: 552
    SeanT said:

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    " England gets about £3bn per annum from Scotland before any Oil and Gas Revenues are tallied."

    I'm more pro-Scottish than most here but that's a nonsense.

    The offsea GERS in the 80s were pretty criminal to Scotland mind.

    Debt Interest is approx £4.5bn as no refund for QE holdings. UK Infrastructure Spending is about £2.5bn and the Defence overpayment is about £1.5bn. Plenty of other budgets such as F&CO add to this. £10bn is a pretty decent figure, so £3bn before Oil and Gas is fair.

    BTW the 1980s are NOTHING compared to the 50% to 70% of Scottish Revenue filched by Westminster between 1900 and 1928 when it was so embarrassing (and the Home Rule movement was kicking off) so the UK Government stopped recording the figures for 50 years.
    Tell us again how England literally RAPED Scotland (your word) during the 20th century.

    RAPED.

    Yes, RAPED.

    You actually believe England put the angrily hardened PENIS of its avarice for sheep products into the hapless VAGINA of Scottish haggis production, and then did a contemptuous BUKKAKE over proud but prone Caledonia, thus creating the EMBARRASSING SHEET STAIN that is Cumbernauld.

    That is ACTUALLY what you think, isn't it?
    Two men, large net, and tranquiliser gun required in Primrose Hill.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Mirror Politics ‏@MirrorPolitics 20s20 seconds ago
    George Osborne's welfare cuts are 'spine chilling' warns his OWN deputy

    £12bn welfare cuts - no attempt to explain where they will fall.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    SeanT said:

    Anecdote klaxon.

    My mum - classic, classic middle Britain (or middle Cornwall) - soft centre, working class Cornishwoman, with A Levels, who liked that nice mister Blair and also admires local Lib Dems, but thinks Cameron is doing OK - was RANTING about Sturgeon and Salmond this evening. Real anger at the perception of Scots who want to have the autonomy cake but eat England's cake, too.

    This could turn the election.

    The problem with it turning the election is that the SNP aren't running in Cornwall. Did she mention the whole Tory game theory thing about how if Labour are short of a majority that would be bad, so you should vote Labour to make sure they get one vote Conservative to make sure Labour don't get a minority and hope you can trust Con-SNP not to cut a deal?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    I'm pretty sure that YouGov is going to inch back to a tie, or even a small Labour lead tonight.

    BTW
    @Charles- I have done the same and swopped my vote with a Greenie who'll vote Labour in a marginal. I like my vote to count
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    SeanT said:

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    " England gets about £3bn per annum from Scotland before any Oil and Gas Revenues are tallied."

    I'm more pro-Scottish than most here but that's a nonsense.

    The offsea GERS in the 80s were pretty criminal to Scotland mind.

    Debt Interest is approx £4.5bn as no refund for QE holdings. UK Infrastructure Spending is about £2.5bn and the Defence overpayment is about £1.5bn. Plenty of other budgets such as F&CO add to this. £10bn is a pretty decent figure, so £3bn before Oil and Gas is fair.

    BTW the 1980s are NOTHING compared to the 50% to 70% of Scottish Revenue filched by Westminster between 1900 and 1928 when it was so embarrassing (and the Home Rule movement was kicking off) so the UK Government stopped recording the figures for 50 years.
    Tell us again how England literally RAPED Scotland (your word) during the 20th century.

    RAPED.

    Yes, RAPED.

    You actually believe England put the angrily hardened PENIS of its avarice for sheep products into the hapless VAGINA of Scottish haggis production, and then did a contemptuous BUKKAKE over proud but prone Caledonia, thus creating the EMBARRASSING SHEET STAIN that is Cumbernauld.

    That is ACTUALLY what you think, isn't it?
    Two men, large net, and tranquiliser gun required in Primrose Hill.

    Sounds like a hell of a party
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533

    Mirror Politics ‏@MirrorPolitics 20s20 seconds ago
    George Osborne's welfare cuts are 'spine chilling' warns his OWN deputy

    £12bn welfare cuts - no attempt to explain where they will fall.

    OWN Deputy, as in Danny Alexander?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,688

    TGOHF said:
    Not really. In case you missed it loads of people on here have criticised that poll today and most of the critics certainly weren't UKIP supporters.
    Didn't look much wrong with it to me. Though it is a PB truth that unfavourable polls are outliers and can be safely discarded.
    Averaging seats that have never been considered possible UKIP gains along with legitimate UKIP targets and then claiming it shows they will all be bad for UKIP on the basis of the results seems a pretty daft way of doing things. As I say, those pointing this out were not, by and large, UKIP supporters.
  • The latest comedy Guardian front page - just a three-line whingey headline about tories now...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
    Yeah, I can't think of a more egregious subversion of democracy than somebody deciding how to cast their own vote based on criteria they choose. Only votes carefully calculated from the Official List Of Valid Reasons To Vote are okay, everything else is morally reprehensible.
    It's a subversion of the principle that we have a system based on local constituencies.

    The right of the people of Twickenham to select their representative is paramount.

    The LibDems advocated a change in the rules and the people rejected it. So they should abide by that decision not circumnavigate it.
    If I roll a die to choose who I vote for, does that also undermine the rights of my neighbours? What if I vote tactically? What if I try to vote for who I want but I just don't pay quite as much attention to the parties' campaigns as I should?
    This I think is one of the key points in the argument on this matter, and why though I do not like the idea of people choosing to vote in that way, I don't know that it should explicitly be banned. People choose which way to vote for all sorts of reasons, and they may be pretty stupid, but that's their right, surely?

    I am contemplating voting for whichever party actually bothers to knock on my door during the campaign (not just put something through the letterbox), for taking the effort in what is a safe seat. That is probably not a good way of deciding how to vote (and I have read the manifestos and watched all the debates etc I can find), but that too should be my choice. If I chose to be swayed by someone from another seat telling me how I should vote, which is what is actually happening in the above scenario as it is not an actual trade, then is that ok? It's not great, but it's not as reprehensible as made out.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Guardian front page bleating about being excluded by The Tories.
  • Is there a Yougov tonight?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
    But , of course , it is quite ok for people with a 2nd home in Cornwall and live there 2 or 3 weeks a year to use their vote to subvert the local constituents' wishes
    Agreed,

    But, of course, we never quite got to the bottom of why Justine McGuinness was apparently on the electoral roll in Tessa Munt’s highly marginal Wells constituency.

  • Is there a Yougov tonight?

    Yes 10.30 pm
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited April 2015
    On the Guardian front page.

    Nick Sutton ✔ @suttonnick

    From the Mail? In you go.
    From the Sun? Very welcome.
    From the Telegraph? That’s fine, From the Guardian? No way. pic.twitter.com/IdF2MIvc5O

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    @Pong I think that at 9/4 the LDs are good value in Montgomery. From what I can gather they've got about a 45% chance. Organisation is very strong and their candidate has been able to say that she is not Lembit Opik.



  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
    Yeah, I can't think of a more egregious subversion of democracy than somebody deciding how to cast their own vote based on criteria they choose. Only votes carefully calculated from the Official List Of Valid Reasons To Vote are okay, everything else is morally reprehensible.
    It's a subversion of the principle that we have a system based on local constituencies.

    The right of the people of Twickenham to select their representative is paramount.

    The LibDems advocated a change in the rules and the people rejected it. So they should abide by that decision not circumnavigate it.
    The right of the people of Twickenham who aren't Mike, you mean? Because you seem to think it's paramount that he DOESN'T get the right to choose his representative. Or at least doesn't get to choose them by means you don't approve of.

    If I roll a die to choose who I vote for, does that also undermine the rights of my neighbours? What if I vote tactically? What if I try to vote for who I want but I just don't pay quite as much attention to the parties' campaigns as I should?
    Mike doesn't live in Twickenham and has no right to choose the representative for that constituency.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Mirror Politics ‏@MirrorPolitics 20s20 seconds ago
    George Osborne's welfare cuts are 'spine chilling' warns his OWN deputy

    £12bn welfare cuts - no attempt to explain where they will fall.

    So what? We won't get detailed answers from anyone about where cuts will fall.

    It's also not really shocking that Alexander has deep worries about plans of his colleague of the past five years. Turns out, shockingly, they are from different parties and disagree on things, even if people have to figure out how to work together sometimes nevertheless.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Anecdote klaxon.

    My mum - classic, classic middle Britain (or middle Cornwall) - soft centre, working class Cornishwoman, with A Levels, who liked that nice mister Blair and also admires local Lib Dems, but thinks Cameron is doing OK - was RANTING about Sturgeon and Salmond this evening. Real anger at the perception of Scots who want to have the autonomy cake but eat England's cake, too.

    This could turn the election.

    Reaction to SeanTs daily hysterical hyperbole post .........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Shall I remind pb of the solitary bet that you and I have wagered on this site, and which you lost, so wholly and humiliatingly?

    Thought not.
    Unless I'm somewhat mistaken winning a single bet with Mark Senior doesn't immunise you from spouting cobblers on PB.

    On the other hand penning same whilst pissed in exotic climes almost certainly ensures it.

  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591
    dr_spyn said:

    Guardian front page bleating about being excluded by The Tories.

    There are quite a few local newspapers with bigger circulation than the Guardian who won't be automatically accredited for events the large newspapers are.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited April 2015
    Well for all the SNP talk from the Tories, tonight's BBC news was Tesco & immigration crisis.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited April 2015
    Remember Labour banned the Currant Bun from their GE launch...
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    Mirror Politics ‏@MirrorPolitics 6m6 minutes ago
    Thanet Tory candidate owns website set up to encourage Hungarians come to UK for low paid work http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farages-tory-challenger-owns-5565777

    This could turn the election.


    Notsure.

    Locally it is very clear-you either love or loath Nigel

    Not much in the middle.

    I just dont accept labour so close.
    Nothing on the ground makes me think it is anything other than a VERY tight UKIP v Tory fight.
    Out of interest how much contact have you had from the three parties?

    It is really being pushed as a three way ultra marginal. I would have thought there is plenty of Lib Dem/Green vote for Labour to squeeze.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,655
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
    Yeah, I can't think of a more egregious subversion of democracy than somebody deciding how to cast their own vote based on criteria they choose. Only votes carefully calculated from the Official List Of Valid Reasons To Vote are okay, everything else is morally reprehensible.
    It's a subversion of the principle that we have a system based on local constituencies.

    The right of the people of Twickenham to select their representative is paramount.

    The LibDems advocated a change in the rules and the people rejected it. So they should abide by that decision not circumnavigate it.
    It's Mike Smithson's vote and he should be allowed to do what he likes with it.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    TGOHF said:
    Not really. In case you missed it loads of people on here have criticised that poll today and most of the critics certainly weren't UKIP supporters.
    Didn't look much wrong with it to me. Though it is a PB truth that unfavourable polls are outliers and can be safely discarded.
    Averaging seats that have never been considered possible UKIP gains along with legitimate UKIP targets and then claiming it shows they will all be bad for UKIP on the basis of the results seems a pretty daft way of doing things. As I say, those pointing this out were not, by and large, UKIP supporters.
    Forest of Dean, Worthing and Shoreham were places where UKIP did well in Euros and Locals last year, but it would be interesting to see the tables by seat. In 16 days we will have proper results so do not need to argue these.

    I have UKIP down for 2 seats in the Nojam contest. I expect Clacton to be one and Rochester the second.

  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Anecdote klaxon.

    My mum - classic, classic middle Britain (or middle Cornwall) - soft centre, working class Cornishwoman, with A Levels, who liked that nice mister Blair and also admires local Lib Dems, but thinks Cameron is doing OK - was RANTING about Sturgeon and Salmond this evening. Real anger at the perception of Scots who want to have the autonomy cake but eat England's cake, too.

    This could turn the election.

    Reaction to SeanTs daily hysterical hyperbole post .........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Shall I remind pb of the solitary bet that you and I have wagered on this site, and which you lost, so wholly and humiliatingly?

    Thought not.
    To be fair;

    Owning up to betting with Marque Senile is troubling. Making hay about beating the old fool must be humiliating for all involved: Participants and observers....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
    Yeah, I can't think of a more egregious subversion of democracy than somebody deciding how to cast their own vote based on criteria they choose. Only votes carefully calculated from the Official List Of Valid Reasons To Vote are okay, everything else is morally reprehensible.
    It's a subversion of the principle that we have a system based on local constituencies.

    The right of the people of Twickenham to select their representative is paramount.

    The LibDems advocated a change in the rules and the people rejected it. So they should abide by that decision not circumnavigate it.
    The right of the people of Twickenham who aren't Mike, you mean? Because you seem to think it's paramount that he DOESN'T get the right to choose his representative. Or at least doesn't get to choose them by means you don't approve of.

    If I roll a die to choose who I vote for, does that also undermine the rights of my neighbours? What if I vote tactically? What if I try to vote for who I want but I just don't pay quite as much attention to the parties' campaigns as I should?
    Mike doesn't live in Twickenham and has no right to choose the representative for that constituency.
    And he isn't 'choosing' anybody there. Someone else who does have that right is merely deciding for their own reasons to do what Mile would prefer there. I don't like the arrangement either, but I also think it is not as morally black and white as you are painting it in terms of what is actually going on.
  • oh lord

    Lord Ashcroft‏@LordAshcroft·2 mins2 minutes ago
    I shall be releasing further marginal seats polls this week to see how the campaigns are shaping up...register at http://lordashcroftpolls.com
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    " England gets about £3bn per annum from Scotland before any Oil and Gas Revenues are tallied."

    I'm more pro-Scottish than most here but that's a nonsense.

    The offsea GERS in the 80s were pretty criminal to Scotland mind.

    Debt Interest is approx £4.5bn as no refund for QE holdings. UK Infrastructure Spending is about £2.5bn and the Defence overpayment is about £1.5bn. Plenty of other budgets such as F&CO add to this. £10bn is a pretty decent figure, so £3bn before Oil and Gas is fair.

    BTW the 1980s are NOTHING compared to the 50% to 70% of Scottish Revenue filched by Westminster between 1900 and 1928 when it was so embarrassing (and the Home Rule movement was kicking off) so the UK Government stopped recording the figures for 50 years.
    Tell us again how England literally RAPED Scotland (your word) during the 20th century.

    RAPED.

    Yes, RAPED.

    You actually believe England put the angrily hardened PENIS of its avarice for sheep products into the hapless VAGINA of Scottish haggis production, and then did a contemptuous BUKKAKE over proud but prone Caledonia, thus creating the EMBARRASSING SHEET STAIN that is Cumbernauld.

    That is ACTUALLY what you think, isn't it?
    Two men, large net, and tranquiliser gun required in Primrose Hill.

    RAPED.

    England RAPED Scotland. Then we KIDDIE-FIDDLED with fair Cymru, previously the FAIREST REALM ON EARTH.
    you're simply suppressing cornish abuse trauma and projecting (or something :) )
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
    Yeah, I can't think of a more egregious subversion of democracy than somebody deciding how to cast their own vote based on criteria they choose. Only votes carefully calculated from the Official List Of Valid Reasons To Vote are okay, everything else is morally reprehensible.
    It's a subversion of the principle that we have a system based on local constituencies.

    The right of the people of Twickenham to select their representative is paramount.

    The LibDems advocated a change in the rules and the people rejected it. So they should abide by that decision not circumnavigate it.
    The right of the people of Twickenham who aren't Mike, you mean? Because you seem to think it's paramount that he DOESN'T get the right to choose his representative. Or at least doesn't get to choose them by means you don't approve of.

    If I roll a die to choose who I vote for, does that also undermine the rights of my neighbours? What if I vote tactically? What if I try to vote for who I want but I just don't pay quite as much attention to the parties' campaigns as I should?
    Mike doesn't live in Twickenham and has no right to choose the representative for that constituency.
    Mike hasn't voted in Twickenham.

  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    So what's the betting on tonight's YouGov? Mr Newton Dunn has not Tweeted

    Tories +0/ -1
    Labour +2/+1
    UKIP 13
    LDs +0
    Green +0
    Others +0

    A greater change than usually found.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
    Yeah, I can't think of a more egregious subversion of democracy than somebody deciding how to cast their own vote based on criteria they choose. Only votes carefully calculated from the Official List Of Valid Reasons To Vote are okay, everything else is morally reprehensible.
    It's a subversion of the principle that we have a system based on local constituencies.

    The right of the people of Twickenham to select their representative is paramount.

    The LibDems advocated a change in the rules and the people rejected it. So they should abide by that decision not circumnavigate it.
    The right of the people of Twickenham who aren't Mike, you mean? Because you seem to think it's paramount that he DOESN'T get the right to choose his representative. Or at least doesn't get to choose them by means you don't approve of.

    If I roll a die to choose who I vote for, does that also undermine the rights of my neighbours? What if I vote tactically? What if I try to vote for who I want but I just don't pay quite as much attention to the parties' campaigns as I should?
    Mike doesn't live in Twickenham and has no right to choose the representative for that constituency.
    Oh, I misunderstood. Well, just replace "Twickenham" with the place he does live in my message then
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,803

    @Pong I think that at 9/4 the LDs are good value in Montgomery. From what I can gather they've got about a 45% chance. Organisation is very strong and their candidate has been able to say that she is not Lembit Opik.

    But didn't the Conservatives gain the equivalent Welsh Assembly seat in 2011 ?

    Now perhaps the legacy of Lembit was still working then and has now dissipated.

    I wouldn't expect a LibDems gain there but then I wouldn't be surprised if the LibDems did make a solitary gain somewhere as their history tends to be one of surprise gains.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,387
    So we haven't had YouGov early tonight... Lab back in the lead?
  • EastwingerEastwinger Posts: 354
    Speedy said:

    Well for all the SNP talk from the Tories, tonight's BBC news was Tesco & immigration crisis.

    shocked and stunned.

  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893

    oh lord

    Lord Ashcroft‏@LordAshcroft·2 mins2 minutes ago
    I shall be releasing further marginal seats polls this week to see how the campaigns are shaping up...register at http://lordashcroftpolls.com

    Seems like Rochester and Strood is one of the seats that has been polled.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Speedy said:

    Well for all the SNP talk from the Tories, tonight's BBC news was Tesco & immigration crisis.

    Well, it had already run for a day or two, I think it will be hard for the Tories to keep it as the top issue, though no doubt they will press it on the doorstep and in the media as much as they can. I do wonder if that can be sustained until election day without something new taking its place or breaking up the monotony a little.
  • Eh_ehm_a_ehEh_ehm_a_eh Posts: 552
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    " England gets about £3bn per annum from Scotland before any Oil and Gas Revenues are tallied."

    I'm more pro-Scottish than most here but that's a nonsense.

    The offsea GERS in the 80s were pretty criminal to Scotland mind.

    Debt Interest is approx £4.5bn as no refund for QE holdings. UK Infrastructure Spending is about £2.5bn and the Defence overpayment is about £1.5bn. Plenty of other budgets such as F&CO add to this. £10bn is a pretty decent figure, so £3bn before Oil and Gas is fair.

    BTW the 1980s are NOTHING compared to the 50% to 70% of Scottish Revenue filched by Westminster between 1900 and 1928 when it was so embarrassing (and the Home Rule movement was kicking off) so the UK Government stopped recording the figures for 50 years.
    Tell us again how England literally RAPED Scotland (your word) during the 20th century.

    RAPED.

    Yes, RAPED.

    You actually believe England put the angrily hardened PENIS of its avarice for sheep products into the hapless VAGINA of Scottish haggis production, and then did a contemptuous BUKKAKE over proud but prone Caledonia, thus creating the EMBARRASSING SHEET STAIN that is Cumbernauld.

    That is ACTUALLY what you think, isn't it?
    Two men, large net, and tranquiliser gun required in Primrose Hill.

    RAPED.

    England RAPED Scotland. Then we KIDDIE-FIDDLED with fair Cymru, previously the FAIREST REALM ON EARTH.
    Shall i alert the good people of King's Cross? Your needing a fix or a prozzie.

  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Lets hope not more scottish seats, we already know the SNP will get almost all of them.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    weejonnie said:

    So what's the betting on tonight's YouGov? Mr Newton Dunn has not Tweeted

    Tories +0/ -1
    Labour +2/+1
    UKIP 13
    LDs +0
    Green +0
    Others +0

    A greater change than usually found.
    I agree- a move back to a tie or a small Labour lead. All within the YouGov MOE
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    TGOHF said:
    Not really. In case you missed it loads of people on here have criticised that poll today and most of the critics certainly weren't UKIP supporters.
    Didn't look much wrong with it to me. Though it is a PB truth that unfavourable polls are outliers and can be safely discarded.
    Averaging seats that have never been considered possible UKIP gains along with legitimate UKIP targets and then claiming it shows they will all be bad for UKIP on the basis of the results seems a pretty daft way of doing things. As I say, those pointing this out were not, by and large, UKIP supporters.
    Forest of Dean, Worthing and Shoreham were places where UKIP did well in Euros and Locals last year, but it would be interesting to see the tables by seat. In 16 days we will have proper results so do not need to argue these.

    I have UKIP down for 2 seats in the Nojam contest. I expect Clacton to be one and Rochester the second.

    Someone compared the ComRes to Ashcroft's polling of the seats, found a considerable drop. Although comparing between pollsters is difficult, one can assume that either the true value is lower, or there has been a move away from UKIP since Ashcroft, with reasonable certainty.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
    Yeah, I can't think of a more egregious subversion of democracy than somebody deciding how to cast their own vote based on criteria they choose. Only votes carefully calculated from the Official List Of Valid Reasons To Vote are okay, everything else is morally reprehensible.
    It's a subversion of the principle that we have a system based on local constituencies.

    The right of the people of Twickenham to select their representative is paramount.

    The LibDems advocated a change in the rules and the people rejected it. So they should abide by that decision not circumnavigate it.
    The right of the people of Twickenham who aren't Mike, you mean? Because you seem to think it's paramount that he DOESN'T get the right to choose his representative. Or at least doesn't get to choose them by means you don't approve of.

    If I roll a die to choose who I vote for, does that also undermine the rights of my neighbours? What if I vote tactically? What if I try to vote for who I want but I just don't pay quite as much attention to the parties' campaigns as I should?
    Mike doesn't live in Twickenham and has no right to choose the representative for that constituency.
    My family family were born and grew up in Twickenham and I feel a close affinity. My vote swap is with former neighbours and long standing friends.

    If you have FPTP then it is inevitable that people will seek to find a way of making their vote count.

  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Speedy said:

    Well for all the SNP talk from the Tories, tonight's BBC news was Tesco & immigration crisis.

    shocked and stunned.

    I knew it! I had always suspected the BBC of Lefty bias, but now the fact that they're not just repeating the same story that the Tories are trying to push over and over again from here to election day proves it beyond doubt!
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Speedy said:

    Well for all the SNP talk from the Tories, tonight's BBC news was Tesco & immigration crisis.

    I can understand Tesco - a £6.3 billion loss doesn't happen every day (banks excepted). But why immigration crisis? What was the slant?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
    Yeah, I can't think of a more egregious subversion of democracy than somebody deciding how to cast their own vote based on criteria they choose. Only votes carefully calculated from the Official List Of Valid Reasons To Vote are okay, everything else is morally reprehensible.
    It's a subversion of the principle that we have a system based on local constituencies.

    The right of the people of Twickenham to select their representative is paramount.

    The LibDems advocated a change in the rules and the people rejected it. So they should abide by that decision not circumnavigate it.
    The right of the people of Twickenham who aren't Mike, you mean? Because you seem to think it's paramount that he DOESN'T get the right to choose his representative. Or at least doesn't get to choose them by means you don't approve of.

    If I roll a die to choose who I vote for, does that also undermine the rights of my neighbours? What if I vote tactically? What if I try to vote for who I want but I just don't pay quite as much attention to the parties' campaigns as I should?
    Mike doesn't live in Twickenham and has no right to choose the representative for that constituency.
    He has voted LAB in Bedford I thought.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,803

    Speedy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can I just thank Alex Salmond for making our canvassing so much easier/fun today.

    Short of him promising to put a special tax on the English to fund free Unicorns and gold bars for all Scots, he couldn't be more helpful to the Tory cause.

    Whereabouts ?
    West Yorkshire.
    Sheffield Hallam maybe?
    Sheffield Hallam hasn't been in West Yorkshire since 1974
    Tsk. Sheffield is in the West Riding. It's never been in West Yorkshire.
    Oh the shame.

    I shall do 100 lines as penance, of Sheffield has never been in West Yorkshire
    And Dore was originally in Derbyshire.

    Which is why Abbeydale Park has hosted home gains for both Derbyshire and Yorkshire.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Speedy said:

    Lets hope not more scottish seats, we already know the SNP will get almost all of them.
    Agreed. Scotland had happened and there is nothing more to say. England is the real battleground
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kle4 said:

    Mirror Politics ‏@MirrorPolitics 20s20 seconds ago
    George Osborne's welfare cuts are 'spine chilling' warns his OWN deputy

    £12bn welfare cuts - no attempt to explain where they will fall.

    So what? We won't get detailed answers from anyone about where cuts will fall.

    It's also not really shocking that Alexander has deep worries about plans of his colleague of the past five years. Turns out, shockingly, they are from different parties and disagree on things, even if people have to figure out how to work together sometimes nevertheless.
    Surely the answer to BJO's 12 billion question is that most of the savings will come from further falls in unemployment, further wage rises and increased skills in the workplace.

    Economic forecasts are always problematic (Hunchmans collapse is always six months in the future!) But welfare costs should go down as the economy grows.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Thanks to those who replied to my previous post btw. Most intriguing. I do get the sense that if Farage loses though it will feel like a disappointment.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
    Get Real. FPTP positively encourages people to LIE when they vote. Look up Duverger's Law.

    If you support such a morally bankrupt system, don't be surprised if people smarter than you find ways to manipulate it in ways you never thought of...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,803
    SeanT said:

    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    Anecdote klaxon.

    My mum - classic, classic middle Britain (or middle Cornwall) - soft centre, working class Cornishwoman, with A Levels, who liked that nice mister Blair and also admires local Lib Dems, but thinks Cameron is doing OK - was RANTING about Sturgeon and Salmond this evening. Real anger at the perception of Scots who want to have the autonomy cake but eat England's cake, too.

    This could turn the election.

    So Tory voter outraged by SNP.
    My mum seldom gets het up about anything political. She's also quite private about her politics. I reckon she voted Blair in 97 and Cameron in 2010. She is Worcester Woman, except she's in St Ives.

    If she is angered by the SNP's attitudinizing in this election then you can be assured that there are many others in rUK who feel the same.

    Of course, this possibly suits the SNP very well. More Anglo-Scots rancour on which they can feed.

    Not so good for Labour, though.

    I am still convinced Miliband will scrape a plurality, but if the Tories can hammer home this Miliband=Sturgeon meme they might just save the day. It's deffo their best (only?) line of attack so far, and they know it, hence their constant repetition of the same.
    You've posted previously that your parents are angered by the Scots / Scottish government.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
    JackW said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    My votes have been cast so for me the election is over.

    Not for the poor people of Twickenham, who's right to choose their local representative has been sadly diminished by the self-importance of one individual.
    Apols but what does this refer to?
    OGH has decided that his desire to have more LibDem MPs in Parliament is more important than the rights of residents to choose their own MPs

    He has therefore swapped his vote in Bedford with someone (who I assume is a Labour supporter) and, in return, that individual will vote LibDem in Twickenham.

    I think it is outrageous, and a subversion of the principle of MPs representing their local constituents
    Yeah, I can't think of a more egregious subversion of democracy than somebody deciding how to cast their own vote based on criteria they choose. Only votes carefully calculated from the Official List Of Valid Reasons To Vote are okay, everything else is morally reprehensible.
    It's a subversion of the principle that we have a system based on local constituencies.

    The right of the people of Twickenham to select their representative is paramount.

    The LibDems advocated a change in the rules and the people rejected it. So they should abide by that decision not circumnavigate it.
    The right of the people of Twickenham who aren't Mike, you mean? Because you seem to think it's paramount that he DOESN'T get the right to choose his representative. Or at least doesn't get to choose them by means you don't approve of.

    If I roll a die to choose who I vote for, does that also undermine the rights of my neighbours? What if I vote tactically? What if I try to vote for who I want but I just don't pay quite as much attention to the parties' campaigns as I should?
    Mike doesn't live in Twickenham and has no right to choose the representative for that constituency.
    Mike hasn't voted in Twickenham.

    No, he's voted Labour in Bedford. Thus doing his level best to ensure the election of Labour, and Ed Miliband as Prime Minister.

  • rcs1000 said:

    It's Mike Smithson's vote and he should be allowed to do what he likes with it.

    So he should be allowed to contract to sell it to the highest bidder? That's certainly a view, albeit an extreme one, but if contracting to sell your vote for one form of consideration is prohibited, it is difficult why it should not be prohibited for all forms of consideration.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tnewtondunn: EXCL: David Cameron and Boris Johnson warn Britain will face "constitutional crisis” if Labour take power with SNP http://t.co/9kGYshKHu5

    @tnewtondunn: "You would see truck fulls of taxpayers’ dosh growling up the M1 to Scotland," Boris tells @thesunnewspaper http://t.co/9kGYshKHu5
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    Shouldn't we have the yougov by now?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    @Pong I think that at 9/4 the LDs are good value in Montgomery. From what I can gather they've got about a 45% chance. Organisation is very strong and their candidate has been able to say that she is not Lembit Opik.

    But didn't the Conservatives gain the equivalent Welsh Assembly seat in 2011 ?

    Now perhaps the legacy of Lembit was still working then and has now dissipated.

    I wouldn't expect a LibDems gain there but then I wouldn't be surprised if the LibDems did make a solitary gain somewhere as their history tends to be one of surprise gains.
    Correct, there was a huge swing against the LibDems in Montgomeryshire in the Assembly elections.

    The former LibDem AM (Mick Bates) had been convicted of common assault.

    The Tory candidate is a former member of Plaid Cymru, a Welsh speaking farmer.

    So I think (unusually) the Tories have been quite savvy and have found someone who can appeal to both the Welsh-speaking west of the constituency and the farming vote. I don’t see Glyn Davies losing.

    The LibDems have a reasonable chance of retaining Ceredigion and B&R, though.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,688

    TGOHF said:
    Not really. In case you missed it loads of people on here have criticised that poll today and most of the critics certainly weren't UKIP supporters.
    Didn't look much wrong with it to me. Though it is a PB truth that unfavourable polls are outliers and can be safely discarded.
    Averaging seats that have never been considered possible UKIP gains along with legitimate UKIP targets and then claiming it shows they will all be bad for UKIP on the basis of the results seems a pretty daft way of doing things. As I say, those pointing this out were not, by and large, UKIP supporters.
    Forest of Dean, Worthing and Shoreham were places where UKIP did well in Euros and Locals last year, but it would be interesting to see the tables by seat. In 16 days we will have proper results so do not need to argue these.

    I have UKIP down for 2 seats in the Nojam contest. I expect Clacton to be one and Rochester the second.

    There are lots of places where UKIP did well in the Euros and local elections but most of those would not be considered in any way possible targets given the 2010 majorities.

    If the poll were to have had any value at all then they needed to produce results for individual constituencies like Ashcroft does. Otherwise it is basically useless.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    kle4 said:

    Mirror Politics ‏@MirrorPolitics 20s20 seconds ago
    George Osborne's welfare cuts are 'spine chilling' warns his OWN deputy

    £12bn welfare cuts - no attempt to explain where they will fall.

    So what? We won't get detailed answers from anyone about where cuts will fall.

    It's also not really shocking that Alexander has deep worries about plans of his colleague of the past five years. Turns out, shockingly, they are from different parties and disagree on things, even if people have to figure out how to work together sometimes nevertheless.
    Surely the answer to BJO's 12 billion question is that most of the savings will come from further falls in unemployment, further wage rises and increased skills in the workplace.

    Economic forecasts are always problematic (Hunchmans collapse is always six months in the future!) But welfare costs should go down as the economy grows.
    Andrew Neale on Daily Politics have a £30bn gap to explain and was accusing them of Magic Money Tree promises.

    Wouldnt have bet on that at the start of the campaign
  • Any one want me to vote for or against Bercow - if you live in Rochester, vote Kelly and I'll put my 'x' against him or otherwise as you wish. Mrs Scrap may offer the same deal.

    Just ask!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Sun Politics ‏@SunPolitics 9m9 minutes ago
    Nigel Farage finally admits that he has been unwell http://sunpl.us/6016fglm

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited April 2015
    The Tory friendly media still pushing the Labour / SNP line. They either think it is working, or praying that it will.

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/590989836787539968
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Shouldn't we have the yougov by now?

    10.30 usually.
  • EastwingerEastwinger Posts: 354

    Shouldn't we have the yougov by now?

    10.30


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    I think Boris and Cameron are missing that a constitutional crisis will be upon us sooner or later regardless I fear.
This discussion has been closed.