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  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,387

    surbiton said:

    Andrew Hawkins is saying in a long email that the "crossover" took place at the turn of the year and the Tories have been ahead ever since.

    Yeah, that's the piece I quoted below: http://www.comres.co.uk/look-past-polls-of-polls-the-conservatives-have-been-leading-all-year/

    Somewhat ironically - and assuming his thesis is correct - then the continued parity in online polls is actually really good for the Tories as it keeps the prospect of EICIPM in the minds of Kippers.
    Basssssssssiiiiiiiilllllll...

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Adding to the gaiety of the nation isn't just for Kippers.
    surbiton said:

    Plato said:

    Oh, I don't mind it. Just never get your back waxed and let it go stubbly. There is NOTHING funnier/sadder/more revolting than that.

    I had a chappy who'd been making eyes at me for years. He plucked up courage to ask me out and then I discovered he waxed his back - it was hilarious, the hair stopped at his shoulders like a welcome mat, and the stubble poked through his shirt.

    I fell about laughing at such poorly executed vanity. I think that effected his game. A lot...

    Even now, I still LOL about it.

    Plato said:

    I do. You're a charming fellow and very masculine body hair wise. I never forget a forearm.

    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and my angora jumpers used to provoke A LOT of comments in the mid 90s from male colleagues.

    I'm sure they'd be banned nowadays. It was a bit much but a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    :)

    I have a pink vest top. The only problem is that even I look "chesty" in it. Definitely Not Suitable For Work but if I had been "browbeaten" as you werr I would have worn it anyway... or my one other pink item, a magenta coloured satin nightie (knee length - very modest)

    Sunil has just passed out.
    Not sure if Plato remembers, but we did meet at a PB bash many moons ago. :)
    Permission to swoon? :)

    Thank you!

    But seriously I was under the impression most women dislike body hair - not suggesting it's the only reason I'm still single! :)
    Plato, only you can raise the quality of the discussion !
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited April 2015
    @Plato said :

    "I'm no Dolly Parton but it was most amusing. The Tesco delivery guy today suffered the same affliction. I wasn't wearing a bra under my tee-shirt. Poor fellow was transfixed."

    ...................................................................

    I never knew Sunil doubled up as a Tesco delivery man. :smile:



  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
    Pulpstar said:

    Disgraceful stuff from Labour

    “On the current fast stream civil service programme, almost everyone is Oxbridge educated and they are all white, so we will introduce a combination of diversity targets and quotas to address that – including for working-class candidates”, he added.

    How the f*ck are they going to decide who is working class enough - do you get bonus points for owning a whippet, or do you have to have sniffed glue on a Glasgow Housing estate or what ?!

    This stuff is to be expected from a man who, in all seriousness, thinks the next James Bond should be a woman.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    GIN1138 said:

    surbiton said:

    Andrew Hawkins is saying in a long email that the "crossover" took place at the turn of the year and the Tories have been ahead ever since.

    Andrew Hawkins emails you? :open_mouth:

    Yes, and probably a thousand others.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    You're speechless?
    JackW said:

    Plato said:

    I was advised by a professional stylist to wear chokers and neck scarves to keep attention upwards.

    I'm no Dolly Parton but it was most amusing. The Tesco delivery guy today suffered the same affliction. I wasn't wearing a bra under my tee-shirt. Poor fellow was transfixed.

    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and .... a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    I never knew Sunil used to be a Tesco delivery man ?!? ;smile:



  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    Andrew Hawkins is saying in a long email that the "crossover" took place at the turn of the year and the Tories have been ahead ever since.

    Yeah, that's the piece I quoted below: http://www.comres.co.uk/look-past-polls-of-polls-the-conservatives-have-been-leading-all-year/

    Somewhat ironically - and assuming his thesis is correct - then the continued parity in online polls is actually really good for the Tories as it keeps the prospect of EICIPM in the minds of Kippers.
    But before you celebrate a 1.5% lead probably still means EICIPM. This is assuming that only Comres phone polling is correct.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Indeedee. There are some things that you can't write off as an aberration. 007 as a woman is like demanding Rocky is one.

    Pulpstar said:

    Disgraceful stuff from Labour

    “On the current fast stream civil service programme, almost everyone is Oxbridge educated and they are all white, so we will introduce a combination of diversity targets and quotas to address that – including for working-class candidates”, he added.

    How the f*ck are they going to decide who is working class enough - do you get bonus points for owning a whippet, or do you have to have sniffed glue on a Glasgow Housing estate or what ?!

    This stuff is to be expected from a man who, in all seriousness, thinks the next James Bond should be a woman.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited April 2015
    .
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    the pen pushers’ idea of “a range” of recommended reading on governmental matters:

    · Michael Barber, ‘How to run a Government’
    · Tony Blair, ‘A journey’
    · Alastair Campbell, ‘The Blair years: extracts from the Alastair Campbell diaries’
    · Anthony King and Ivor Crewe, ‘The blunders of our governments’
    · Damian McBride, ‘Power Trip: a decade of policy, plots and spin’
    · Chris Mullin, ‘A view from the foothills: the Chris Mullin diaries’

    Hardly an impartial list…

    http://order-order.com/2015/04/14/mandarins-given-new-labour-holiday-reading-list/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    Off topic: Swear I've not looked at the answer - but is it July 16th ?!
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited April 2015
    Deleted for lack of bra .... :smiley:

  • jahodgesjahodges Posts: 12
    Sky news top corner featuring a tns with con up 2, 34 to 32 dated today. Was this mentioned earlier and I missed it?
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Plato said:

    Have you seen the Louis Theroux docs on transgender children - it's probably on catch-up tv somewhere.

    It's provocative and enlightening. It made me rethink a few things.

    Ishmael_X said:


    I was addressing your implied statement that men can join the WI.

    Fair enough - but even the WI might have a sticky time defining who is a man and who is a woman. I know that sounds mad but I was involved in a project some time ago and it is actually a grey area. The only reference is a piece of paper that is based on someone's opinion and in as many as 1% of births that quick squint between the legs produces an "Um..." rather than "Boy" or "Girl".

    Think about that - your legal sex is based on a two second glance between your legs on day one and then a chain of people writing it down without making any mistakes or mixing you up.


    Absolutely.

    The more we learn about gender, the messier it seems to get. The forced genital mutilation of babies in the past (almost always to make *it* into a girl) is pretty horrific.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    The Third Man by Mandy is missing...

    the pen pushers’ idea of “a range” of recommended reading on governmental matters:

    · Michael Barber, ‘How to run a Government’
    · Tony Blair, ‘A journey’
    · Alastair Campbell, ‘The Blair years: extracts from the Alastair Campbell diaries’
    · Anthony King and Ivor Crewe, ‘The blunders of our governments’
    · Damian McBride, ‘Power Trip: a decade of policy, plots and spin’
    · Chris Mullin, ‘A view from the foothills: the Chris Mullin diaries’

    Hardly an impartial list…

    http://order-order.com/2015/04/14/mandarins-given-new-labour-holiday-reading-list/

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    My wedding day? Christ - is it the Apocalypse?
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic: Swear I've not looked at the answer - but is it July 16th ?!

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    That is the second good deed that you have done !
    Plato said:

    You're speechless?

    JackW said:

    Plato said:

    I was advised by a professional stylist to wear chokers and neck scarves to keep attention upwards.

    I'm no Dolly Parton but it was most amusing. The Tesco delivery guy today suffered the same affliction. I wasn't wearing a bra under my tee-shirt. Poor fellow was transfixed.

    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and .... a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    I never knew Sunil used to be a Tesco delivery man ?!? ;smile:



  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Plato said:

    Have you seen the Louis Theroux docs on transgender children - it's probably on catch-up tv somewhere.

    It's provocative and enlightening. It made me rethink a few things.

    I knew it was on but I was not interested enough to watch it. Mr Theroux's previous documentaries always left me feeling like I had been short-changed so I did not bother with this one.

  • He is lying, because afaik the Tories aren't taking people out of paying NI, just IC. The whole history of NI is exactly for the purpose of funding various benefits and pension. If you don't "pay in" you don't get your state pension, so no such link is broken.

    You can simply claim child benefit (if you have a kid under 12) to gain your NI credits rather than working.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546

    Sean_F said:

    weejonnie said:

    JEO said:

    How did the launch of Labour's 'Minority Manifesto' go earlier today?

    Is a minority manifesto what I think it is? A separate manifesto for people depending on the colour of their skin?
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/13/labour-ethnic-minority-voters-manifesto-top-jobs-quotas-hate-crime-reforms

    http://www2.labour.org.uk/harman-and-miliband-launch-labours-bame-manifesto
    If it is it means that the Labour party is VERY racist - no doubt Diane Abbott has her paws in this. Imagine if UKIP had written a separate manifesto for white Englishmen only.
    Imagine if UKIP were demanding that a particular percentage of jobs were reserved for white people.
    Why I'm voting Tory, Sean. Whatever social policy nonsense Clegg and Cameron may decide if reelected will be a picnic compared to what Labour under Miliband will put the country through.
    It's a good reason for voting Conservative - provided the Conservatives don't do something similar. I remember how Cameron started his premiership by condemning Oxbridge for not taking in enough students from ethnic minorities.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    JackW said:

    Deleted for lack of bra .... :smiley:

    Does Mrs Jack W check your postings ?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Miss Plato, Miliband's idiotic suggestion Bond should be a woman was as tone deaf as when Prescott went to Scotland for the referendum and suggested a joint Anglo-Scottish football team.

    When demographics are key to a character they cannot be altered. Bond's defined by being British, male and a womaniser.

    On the other hand, Rosamund Pike as a serial womaniser. Hmm. Maybe the idea does have merit...
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    surbiton said:

    Andrew Hawkins is saying in a long email that the "crossover" took place at the turn of the year and the Tories have been ahead ever since.

    Yeah, that's the piece I quoted below: http://www.comres.co.uk/look-past-polls-of-polls-the-conservatives-have-been-leading-all-year/

    Somewhat ironically - and assuming his thesis is correct - then the continued parity in online polls is actually really good for the Tories as it keeps the prospect of EICIPM in the minds of Kippers.
    The monthly comparison between online and phone polls is pretty stark.

    Labour are going to lose, but it will come as an awful shock to many of their supporters, just as it did in 1992.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Plato said:

    That deserves a Darwin Award

    Scott_P said:

    NOT winning here...

    @paulwaugh: Priceless Lib Dem leaflet: ‘you shdn’t vote’ for Nick Clegg cos he’s ‘not interested in yr local area’
    http://t.co/SJoOxAwypC

    My mother might get one - she lives just south of Consett near Buttsfield.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    GIN1138 said:

    surbiton said:

    Andrew Hawkins is saying in a long email that the "crossover" took place at the turn of the year and the Tories have been ahead ever since.

    Yeah, that's the piece I quoted below: http://www.comres.co.uk/look-past-polls-of-polls-the-conservatives-have-been-leading-all-year/

    Somewhat ironically - and assuming his thesis is correct - then the continued parity in online polls is actually really good for the Tories as it keeps the prospect of EICIPM in the minds of Kippers.
    Basssssssssiiiiiiiilllllll...

    Listen, don't mention the crossover! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right. [returns to pb.com] So! It's all forgotten now, and let's hear no more about it. So, that's two egg mayonnaise, a prawn Gove, an Esther McVey, and four Grayling salads.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I find his playing the numpty a most intriguing form of intv. He's clearly a very clever man who's made an art of appearing a bit stupid/unthreatening. I've seen quite a lot of his stuff and it's a unique technique.

    I found his one about the insanity defence prisoners a bit lacking - but it still shone a light on those involved. He's jolly perceptive.

    Plato said:

    Have you seen the Louis Theroux docs on transgender children - it's probably on catch-up tv somewhere.

    It's provocative and enlightening. It made me rethink a few things.

    I knew it was on but I was not interested enough to watch it. Mr Theroux's previous documentaries always left me feeling like I had been short-changed so I did not bother with this one.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic: Swear I've not looked at the answer - but is it July 16th ?!

    It is.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415

    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic: Swear I've not looked at the answer - but is it July 16th ?!

    It is.
    It's a corker of a question :)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546
    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    It's a legitimate grievance that there are no immigration controls for (mainly white) EU migrants, whereas (mainly non-white) immigrants from outside the EU face such controls. But, I wouldn't want to move to abolish such immigration controls in the name of equality.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Pong said:


    The more we learn about gender, the messier it seems to get. The forced genital mutilation of babies in the past (almost always to make *it* into a girl) is pretty horrific.

    Indeed. The "poster child" has to be David Reimer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

    I remember learning about his case from a Horizon episode on BBC2. Horrific stuff.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    Andrew Hawkins is saying in a long email that the "crossover" took place at the turn of the year and the Tories have been ahead ever since.

    Yeah, that's the piece I quoted below: http://www.comres.co.uk/look-past-polls-of-polls-the-conservatives-have-been-leading-all-year/

    Somewhat ironically - and assuming his thesis is correct - then the continued parity in online polls is actually really good for the Tories as it keeps the prospect of EICIPM in the minds of Kippers.
    But before you celebrate a 1.5% lead probably still means EICIPM. This is assuming that only Comres phone polling is correct.
    I don't think it does, with Scotland as it is. But it's very close. I have the Tories ahead by 21 seats on a 1.1% gap in vote share currently.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2015
    It's a funny thing. What I take away from Bond is that he's cruel and sentimental at the same time. Ian Fleming talks about this a lot in the books.

    That makes him so intriguing. Like Sherlock and Irene Adler.

    Miss Plato, Miliband's idiotic suggestion Bond should be a woman was as tone deaf as when Prescott went to Scotland for the referendum and suggested a joint Anglo-Scottish football team.

    When demographics are key to a character they cannot be altered. Bond's defined by being British, male and a womaniser.

    On the other hand, Rosamund Pike as a serial womaniser. Hmm. Maybe the idea does have merit...

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I sincerely hope Consett is a lot nicer nowadays. I went there post closure and the air was still orange with dust and everything was fly-blown dereliction.

    It was grim, though not as appalling as Immingham. Christ that needed a health warning from 5 miles out.
    weejonnie said:

    Plato said:

    That deserves a Darwin Award

    Scott_P said:

    NOT winning here...

    @paulwaugh: Priceless Lib Dem leaflet: ‘you shdn’t vote’ for Nick Clegg cos he’s ‘not interested in yr local area’
    http://t.co/SJoOxAwypC

    My mother might get one - she lives just south of Consett near Buttsfield.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    jahodges said:

    Sky news top corner featuring a tns with con up 2, 34 to 32 dated today. Was this mentioned earlier and I missed it?

    This morning I think
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Everyone stop what you're doing, there's a WOMAN on the INTERNET!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Jim Murphy has strongly attacked the Tory manifesto pledge to extend EVEL to financial matters – “ including an English rate of Income Tax, when equivalent decisions have been devolved” - as “a brutal betrayal of Scotland and the Smith consensus,”
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/apr/14/election-2015-live-conservative-manifesto-david-cameron-right-to-buy
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Miss Plato, cold characters can be two-dimensional, but when they have some depth they can be very interesting. When someone's capable of being an utter bastard but isn't compelled to be one it makes them quite unpredictable.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Afternoon all and I see Sporting Index has reverted to a Tory lead of 15 seats.

    A very interesting piece by one of the ComRes backroom boys showing Sunil's precious crossover took place in January and the Tories have been leading with the telephone pollsters ever since. Next Ipsos Mori will be interesting. The Survation and Panelbase polls are looking increasingly out of step with all the others. Interesting that in 2 days the SKY poll of polls has gone from 32 Tory 34 Labour to 34/34.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    If you can see Neflix - the baddie in DareDevil is precisely that. A bad man with a huge vulnerability.

    Think of Justified.

    Miss Plato, cold characters can be two-dimensional, but when they have some depth they can be very interesting. When someone's capable of being an utter bastard but isn't compelled to be one it makes them quite unpredictable.

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Freggles
    A whole one, and not just the usual bunch of "right" tits?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Freggles said:

    Everyone stop what you're doing, there's a WOMAN on the INTERNET!

    How do you know ?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    surbiton said:

    JackW said:

    Deleted for lack of bra .... :smiley:

    Does Mrs Jack W check your postings ?
    Naturally.

    I get fined for inappropriate posts .... how do you think I fund her shoe collection so lavishly :innocent:

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    JackW said:

    @Plato said :

    "I'm no Dolly Parton but it was most amusing. The Tesco delivery guy today suffered the same affliction. I wasn't wearing a bra under my tee-shirt. Poor fellow was transfixed."

    ...................................................................

    I never knew Sunil doubled up as a Tesco delivery man. :smile:

    My magic ELBOWs protected me :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues.
    Even after Labour's 13 years in office 1997-2010?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Miss Plato, alas, I am Netflixless. The ads for Daredevil do look pretty good.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2015
    £5.99 you can join in. There's oodles on there. The first month is free so you could watch the whole show and cancel.

    Miss Plato, alas, I am Netflixless. The ads for Daredevil do look pretty good.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    GIN1138 said:

    surbiton said:

    Andrew Hawkins is saying in a long email that the "crossover" took place at the turn of the year and the Tories have been ahead ever since.

    Yeah, that's the piece I quoted below: http://www.comres.co.uk/look-past-polls-of-polls-the-conservatives-have-been-leading-all-year/

    Somewhat ironically - and assuming his thesis is correct - then the continued parity in online polls is actually really good for the Tories as it keeps the prospect of EICIPM in the minds of Kippers.
    Basssssssssiiiiiiiilllllll...

    Listen, don't mention the crossover! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right. [returns to pb.com] So! It's all forgotten now, and let's hear no more about it. So, that's two egg mayonnaise, a prawn Gove, an Esther McVey, and four Grayling salads.
    Crossover? What crossover?

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/587369426271477760
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Plato said:

    I sincerely hope Consett is a lot nicer nowadays. I went there post closure and the air was still orange with dust and everything was fly-blown dereliction.

    It was grim, though not as appalling as Immingham. Christ that needed a health warning from 5 miles out.

    weejonnie said:

    Plato said:

    That deserves a Darwin Award

    Scott_P said:

    NOT winning here...

    @paulwaugh: Priceless Lib Dem leaflet: ‘you shdn’t vote’ for Nick Clegg cos he’s ‘not interested in yr local area’
    http://t.co/SJoOxAwypC

    My mother might get one - she lives just south of Consett near Buttsfield.
    Actually it is pretty good now - the red dust has gone, the steelworks are no more, the slag heaps have been levelled. The usual out of town shopping area is actually pretty close to the town (easy walking distance) because there was so much space left after the steelworks was demolished. Lot of new build property as well on the south/ east sides although Blackhill (to the north) is much older.

    A lot of money was pumped in by the government after the steelworks closure, but I suppose you could say Consett is sort of like a dormer town for Newcastle - close but not too close. It has a theatre/ cinema and some night life.

    Regrettably it will still return a Labour MP.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    :)

    I have a pink vest top. The only problem is that even I look "chesty" in it. Definitely Not Suitable For Work but if I had been "browbeaten" as you werr I would have worn it anyway... or my one other pink item, a magenta coloured satin nightie (knee length - very modest)

    When I was at my (very po-faced) pre-prep school, I was told to bring in "something red" three days running.

    By the third day my parents were so annoyed that they gave me a copy of the Little Red Book.

    The school was Not Amused. Words Were Had.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited April 2015

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues.
    Even after Labour's 13 years in office 1997-2010?
    Yes they do!

    Generally good progress has been made but still lots to do!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Miss Plato, that does sound immensely cheap, to the point of it being weird.

    My memory's failing me, but I'm reasonably sure one of the classical writers, maybe Livy, complained about prices and values getting out of whack.

    The way TV, books, videogames and music are changing due to advances in technology is very interesting.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    OT Watching Pawn Stars and someone has a copy of the first Playboy with Marylin Monroe. 1953. Wow. Pulp tv shows have some great nuggets.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited April 2015
    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    So, go back to the utopia of the 60s and 70s then?
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    So, go back to the utopia of the 60s and 70s then?
    No. Forward to a future where we don't treat people differently depending on their skin colour.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    So, go back to the utopia of the 60s and 70s then?
    No. Forward to a future where we don't treat people differently depending on their skin colour.
    I'll definitely drink to that. Do you think we're at that stage now?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    So, go back to the utopia of the 60s and 70s then?
    No-one is suggesting that. What we all want is for there to be one law for all, equality under the law. The concern is that a political party will seek to offer something specifically to one ethnic or religious minority group in a way which divides rather than unites us. To do so at a time when we see the consequences of ghettoised communities is, frankly, despicable and dangerous.

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited April 2015
    @murali_s
    Back to the "fifties"
    Dave is going to call his new pop band, Rachman Turner Overdrive, in honour of his new housing scam.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Being a victim never ends well. And pandering to snake oilers who will stop you *being a victim* just swaps one form for another.

    I refuse point blank to be a female victim. If more bods like me took responsibility and stood up - this whole identity politics schitck would die on its feet.

    The world is full of those who prefer to make their problems the fault of someone else. Playing the victim makes you one.
    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    So, go back to the utopia of the 60s and 70s then?
    No. Forward to a future where we don't treat people differently depending on their skin colour.
    I'll definitely drink to that. Do you think we're at that stage now?
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited April 2015
    Smarmeron said:

    @murali_s
    Back to the "fifties"
    Dave is going to call his new pop band, Rachman Turner Overdrive, in honour of his new housing scam.

    Rachman specialised in slum rentals, rather than the sale of nice, warm and shiny housing association homes.

    Otherwise, it's a great analogy.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    STV news leading on Jim Murphy's problems re Labour spending cuts which he said wouldn't affect Scotland
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    At the start of the year, the left-wing pro-independence website Wings over Scotland commissioned a series of Panelbase surveys comparing public attitudes in Scotland with the rest of the United Kingdom. The results were the occasion for a collective intake of breath amongst the Wish Trees for Yes set, as they discovered a Scotland outwith Byres Road and beyond the pages of the Sunday Herald.

    Here they encountered backing for capital punishment, the monarchy, and nuclear weapons and opposition to immigration and defence spending cuts. This wasn’t the Scotland on whose behalf they had fought and sweat and interpretive-danced to cast off the shackles of Westminster neoliberalism. This was a country at one with key centre-right assumptions. It was almost as if Scotland was just like… England.
    http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/analysis/317160-analysis-stephen-daisley-on-public-support-for-the-benefits-cap/
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Citing Rachman is even lamer than using Fatcha. Deary me.

    Smarmeron said:

    @murali_s
    Back to the "fifties"
    Dave is going to call his new pop band, Rachman Turner Overdrive, in honour of his new housing scam.

    Rachman specialised in slum rentals, rather than the sale of nice, warm and shiny housing association homes.

    Otherwise, it's a great analogy.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Plato said:

    £5.99 you can join in. There's oodles on there. The first month is free so you could watch the whole show and cancel.

    Miss Plato, alas, I am Netflixless. The ads for Daredevil do look pretty good.

    Funnily enough, I joined Netflix last month but have run out of anything to watch ! Partly, my enthusiasm went down when I couldn't get to see it on my telly. Watching on my laptop screen takes a lot of the pleasure away.

    What have you watched lately worth mentioning ?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Miss Plato, it's perverse and weird how some people are desperate to call dibs on victimhood.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited April 2015
    @Smareron

    'Back to the "fifties"
    Dave is going to call his new pop band, Rachman Turner Overdrive, in honour of his new housing scam.'

    Popular election pledge for 1.5 million housing association tenants and your clearly rattled. win/win.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2015
    Sam Williams @samjoshwilliams
    Interesting from @ProfTimBale on parties delivering on manifesto pledges.Lab '45 manfiesto contained just 18
    theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/14/politicians-keep-manifesto-promises
    Manifesto launches give cynics everywhere the chance to trot out one of the hoariest political cliches around, namely that manifestos don’t matter because parties never do what they say they’re going to do anyway. Unlike most cliches, however, this one is not only trite but almost certainly wrong, too. There are enough studies around to suggest that parties, knowing that politics is a repeated rather than a one-shot game, take their promises pretty seriously and that, as a result, they actually follow through on the majority of them.

    Political scientists first started studying the extent to which parties redeemed their manifesto pledges in the 60s and 70s after some pioneering work by Richard Rose. One of the most detailed studies from back then was done by Colin Rallings, who more recently is one half of the duo (the other is Michael Thrasher) who have done the election-time number crunching for several broadcasters and newspapers.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,037
    For SouthamObserver:

    I saw your debate earlier with Charles and others and was unable to comment. However, there's an important piece of data that would move to bring you both towards resolution: a plot of 1/15th of a hectare is not one for a single dwelling. At least not under PPG3 (the planning guidelines published in 2003 or so), and also not historically.

    PPG3 requires housing density of 30-50 dwellings per hectare. In London, we'd look at the larger number. If land goes at £420k per 1/15th of a hectare, that's £6.3 million per hectare, which would equate to £126k per dwelling.

    As that would be an average, we'd hope that a Local Authority could source land for lower than the average, but it would still be a lot lower than the number you were working from. I fully understand why you were led down that route (you'd tend to expect whoever produced the original statistics to do it on a per-house basis), but it's not so. This tends to agree with Charles's instinct that the number was way too high.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Cyclefree said:

    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    So, go back to the utopia of the 60s and 70s then?
    No-one is suggesting that. What we all want is for there to be one law for all, equality under the law. The concern is that a political party will seek to offer something specifically to one ethnic or religious minority group in a way which divides rather than unites us. To do so at a time when we see the consequences of ghettoised communities is, frankly, despicable and dangerous.

    Top post.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    It just seems very patronising to me. If Labour want to push further on equality with quotas then why not just put a chapter under their manifesto called 'equality' and put it in there?

    Otherwise what they're implying is there's one manifesto for whites and one for non-whites, which is divisive and highly distasteful.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    Plato said:

    Being a victim never ends well. And pandering to snake oilers who will stop you *being a victim* just swaps one form for another.

    I refuse point blank to be a female victim. If more bods like me took responsibility and stood up - this whole identity politics schitck would die on its feet.

    The world is full of those who prefer to make their problems the fault of someone else. Playing the victim makes you one.

    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    So, go back to the utopia of the 60s and 70s then?
    No. Forward to a future where we don't treat people differently depending on their skin colour.
    I'll definitely drink to that. Do you think we're at that stage now?
    I feel the same way about my "Asian-ness" - as far as I'm concerned New Year isn't today or tomorrow, but January 1st :)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    So, go back to the utopia of the 60s and 70s then?
    No. Forward to a future where we don't treat people differently depending on their skin colour.
    I'll definitely drink to that. Do you think we're at that stage now?
    How does treating people differently get us there? A BAME manifesto is a horrible idea, why should people with different colour skin be excluded from the regular manifesto process. I don't know what has possessed the Labour party, it goes completely against the idea of integration.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808
    Unbelievable stuff today. The party of fiscal rectitude casting uncosted giveaways out like confetti. I'd be mighty hacked off if I was a private sector renter though. It's bad enough being shafted as an ordinary homeowning taxpayer. The key issue though is that Cameron knows he isn't going to be in a position to enact it, which just makes it blatant dog whistling.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Plato said:

    Being a victim never ends well. And pandering to snake oilers who will stop you *being a victim* just swaps one form for another.

    I refuse point blank to be a female victim. If more bods like me took responsibility and stood up - this whole identity politics schitck would die on its feet.

    The world is full of those who prefer to make their problems the fault of someone else. Playing the victim makes you one.

    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    So, go back to the utopia of the 60s and 70s then?
    No. Forward to a future where we don't treat people differently depending on their skin colour.
    I'll definitely drink to that. Do you think we're at that stage now?
    Disagree 100%. You have to call a spade a spade.

    Sexism, racism, religious intolerance etc. has to be called out and called out strongly if it's happening. It's not a matter of playing the victim or being politically expedient here, it's simply about right and wrong!

    I've heard this 'playing the victim' defence so many times now - it's dangerous!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Mr. S, indeed, when that lunatic father claimed he had no idea about extremism that could've affected his teenage daughter and blamed the police, then turned out to have attended foam-flecked hate-filled marches against the West it's very dangerous.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    It just seems very patronising to me. If Labour want to push further on equality with quotas then why not just put a chapter under their manifesto called 'equality' and put it in there?

    Otherwise what they're implying is there's one manifesto for whites and one for non-whites, which is divisive and highly distasteful.
    Indeed. I honestly don't understand this move. Separating non-whites is a bad move. Maybe politically it helps them with certain voters who are in favour of positive discrimination, but it sends a very poor message. People should be treated equally, not be told that they get a different manifesto to everyone else because of the colour of their skin.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2015
    What sort of TV do you have? Not a Smart one I assume. That makes a huge difference.

    I'd recommend Bosch, DareDevil, House of Cards, Chuck, Rake, The Boss, Sons of Anarchy - I watch so much that an idea of your preferences would help me narrow a few down.

    I'm an atypical viewer who watches an enormous volume of true crime forensic/reality/history/sci-fi/sci-fantasy/science/supernatural/legal dramas.

    I can't help with soaps or anything like them.
    surbiton said:

    Plato said:

    £5.99 you can join in. There's oodles on there. The first month is free so you could watch the whole show and cancel.

    Miss Plato, alas, I am Netflixless. The ads for Daredevil do look pretty good.

    Funnily enough, I joined Netflix last month but have run out of anything to watch ! Partly, my enthusiasm went down when I couldn't get to see it on my telly. Watching on my laptop screen takes a lot of the pleasure away.

    What have you watched lately worth mentioning ?
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067

    Plato said:

    Being a victim never ends well. And pandering to snake oilers who will stop you *being a victim* just swaps one form for another.

    I refuse point blank to be a female victim. If more bods like me took responsibility and stood up - this whole identity politics schitck would die on its feet.

    The world is full of those who prefer to make their problems the fault of someone else. Playing the victim makes you one.

    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    So, go back to the utopia of the 60s and 70s then?
    No. Forward to a future where we don't treat people differently depending on their skin colour.
    I'll definitely drink to that. Do you think we're at that stage now?
    I feel the same way about my "Asian-ness" - as far as I'm concerned New Year isn't today or tomorrow, but January 1st :)
    Today is Tamil New Year which I will observe by going to the Temple and January 1st is the Greogrian New Year which I will celebrate by getting hammered. You can do both and no shame in doing both!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    murali_s said:

    Plato said:

    Being a victim never ends well. And pandering to snake oilers who will stop you *being a victim* just swaps one form for another.

    I refuse point blank to be a female victim. If more bods like me took responsibility and stood up - this whole identity politics schitck would die on its feet.

    The world is full of those who prefer to make their problems the fault of someone else. Playing the victim makes you one.

    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    So, go back to the utopia of the 60s and 70s then?
    No. Forward to a future where we don't treat people differently depending on their skin colour.
    I'll definitely drink to that. Do you think we're at that stage now?
    Disagree 100%. You have to call a spade a spade.

    Sexism, racism, religious intolerance etc. has to be called out and called out strongly if it's happening. It's not a matter of playing the victim or being politically expedient here, it's simply about right and wrong!

    I've heard this 'playing the victim' defence so many times now - it's dangerous!
    So if a non white person gets a job in front of a white person purely on skin colour, what is that if not state sponsored racism ?

    White people are not the majority in London yet that is what sadiq khan is pledging

    1970s politics, so old hat
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    It just seems very patronising to me. If Labour want to push further on equality with quotas then why not just put a chapter under their manifesto called 'equality' and put it in there?

    Otherwise what they're implying is there's one manifesto for whites and one for non-whites, which is divisive and highly distasteful.
    Indeed. I honestly don't understand this move. Separating non-whites is a bad move. Maybe politically it helps them with certain voters who are in favour of positive discrimination, but it sends a very poor message. People should be treated equally, not be told that they get a different manifesto to everyone else because of the colour of their skin.
    Imagine if a party launched a manifesto that they openly stated this is policies for whities...what would the reaction be? I sounds like something the BNP would do.
  • Unbelievable stuff today. The party of fiscal rectitude casting uncosted giveaways out like confetti. I'd be mighty hacked off if I was a private sector renter though. It's bad enough being shafted as an ordinary homeowning taxpayer. The key issue though is that Cameron knows he isn't going to be in a position to enact it, which just makes it blatant dog whistling.

    Today could be the game changer - voters don't hear all the details and minutiae - just a positive message on childcare, tax free minimum wage and opportunity to buy a home at a discount plus funding for the NHS.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    It just seems very patronising to me. If Labour want to push further on equality with quotas then why not just put a chapter under their manifesto called 'equality' and put it in there?

    Otherwise what they're implying is there's one manifesto for whites and one for non-whites, which is divisive and highly distasteful.
    Indeed. I honestly don't understand this move. Separating non-whites is a bad move. Maybe politically it helps them with certain voters who are in favour of positive discrimination, but it sends a very poor message. People should be treated equally, not be told that they get a different manifesto to everyone else because of the colour of their skin.
    Imagine if a party launched a manifesto that they openly stated this is policies for whities...what would the reaction be? I sounds like something the BNP would do.
    What's Phil Woolas up to these days?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    It just seems very patronising to me. If Labour want to push further on equality with quotas then why not just put a chapter under their manifesto called 'equality' and put it in there?

    Otherwise what they're implying is there's one manifesto for whites and one for non-whites, which is divisive and highly distasteful.
    Indeed. I honestly don't understand this move. Separating non-whites is a bad move. Maybe politically it helps them with certain voters who are in favour of positive discrimination, but it sends a very poor message. People should be treated equally, not be told that they get a different manifesto to everyone else because of the colour of their skin.
    Imagine if a party launched a manifesto that they openly stated this is policies for whities...what would the reaction be? I sounds like something the BNP would do.
    Well this is how Labour's move comes across, normal manifesto for whites, special manifesto for non-whites. What on Earth possessed them to release such a publication.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    It just seems very patronising to me. If Labour want to push further on equality with quotas then why not just put a chapter under their manifesto called 'equality' and put it in there?

    Otherwise what they're implying is there's one manifesto for whites and one for non-whites, which is divisive and highly distasteful.
    Indeed. I honestly don't understand this move. Separating non-whites is a bad move. Maybe politically it helps them with certain voters who are in favour of positive discrimination, but it sends a very poor message. People should be treated equally, not be told that they get a different manifesto to everyone else because of the colour of their skin.
    Again, you're speaking from an Utopian perspective. We are quite away from that...
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Exactly. You're a very intelligent and well qualified man. No one should see you as some *ethnic victim* to pander to. It's insulting.

    Plato said:

    Being a victim never ends well. And pandering to snake oilers who will stop you *being a victim* just swaps one form for another.

    I refuse point blank to be a female victim. If more bods like me took responsibility and stood up - this whole identity politics schitck would die on its feet.

    The world is full of those who prefer to make their problems the fault of someone else. Playing the victim makes you one.

    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    So, go back to the utopia of the 60s and 70s then?
    No. Forward to a future where we don't treat people differently depending on their skin colour.
    I'll definitely drink to that. Do you think we're at that stage now?
    I feel the same way about my "Asian-ness" - as far as I'm concerned New Year isn't today or tomorrow, but January 1st :)
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited April 2015
    Rachman thrived because of a shortage of affordable housing, which he made even more unaffordable by shifting out the tenants who had been there before with protected rents, then filling them up with incomers.
    To some he was low life scum, to most on here, he would be classed as a heroic free marketeer.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Maybe sadiq khan thinks this kind of thing is happening in the shires

    Daily Mail Online (@MailOnline)
    April 14
    South African white supremacist camps brainwash kids to start race war dailym.ai/1OaGnvn pic.twitter.com/rZh00bvDCn
  • So, we have from the Conservatives the:-
    1. Tax cuts that they did not promise clearly in 2010
    2. Right to Buy for housing association properties that they did not promise clearly in 2010
    3. IHT reductions that they did promise in 2010
    Are these the game changers enough to swing over from Lab 4%+ of the voters?
    That is unclear but this has probably ended EdM's chances of a majority.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    It just seems very patronising to me. If Labour want to push further on equality with quotas then why not just put a chapter under their manifesto called 'equality' and put it in there?

    Otherwise what they're implying is there's one manifesto for whites and one for non-whites, which is divisive and highly distasteful.
    Indeed. I honestly don't understand this move. Separating non-whites is a bad move. Maybe politically it helps them with certain voters who are in favour of positive discrimination, but it sends a very poor message. People should be treated equally, not be told that they get a different manifesto to everyone else because of the colour of their skin.
    Imagine if a party launched a manifesto that they openly stated this is policies for whities...what would the reaction be? I sounds like something the BNP would do.
    Well this is how Labour's move comes across, normal manifesto for whites, special manifesto for non-whites. What on Earth possessed them to release such a publication.
    Farage will surely hammer this point on Thursday and connect that kind of thinking with Rotherham
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Quite. It's either immensely patronising, or divisive or pandering.

    I can't see an upside to this for anyone bar *community leaders* with an axe to grind. It's the Phil Woolas Party.
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    It just seems very patronising to me. If Labour want to push further on equality with quotas then why not just put a chapter under their manifesto called 'equality' and put it in there?

    Otherwise what they're implying is there's one manifesto for whites and one for non-whites, which is divisive and highly distasteful.
    Indeed. I honestly don't understand this move. Separating non-whites is a bad move. Maybe politically it helps them with certain voters who are in favour of positive discrimination, but it sends a very poor message. People should be treated equally, not be told that they get a different manifesto to everyone else because of the colour of their skin.
    Imagine if a party launched a manifesto that they openly stated this is policies for whities...what would the reaction be? I sounds like something the BNP would do.
    Well this is how Labour's move comes across, normal manifesto for whites, special manifesto for non-whites. What on Earth possessed them to release such a publication.
  • Unbelievable stuff today. The party of fiscal rectitude casting uncosted giveaways out like confetti. I'd be mighty hacked off if I was a private sector renter though. It's bad enough being shafted as an ordinary homeowning taxpayer. The key issue though is that Cameron knows he isn't going to be in a position to enact it, which just makes it blatant dog whistling.

    Today could be the game changer - voters don't hear all the details and minutiae - just a positive message on childcare, tax free minimum wage and opportunity to buy a home at a discount plus funding for the NHS.
    It could be a gamechanger in the fact that Ed now has almost a zero chance of a majority.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    As a right wing Thatcherite I want to applaud the new right to buy policy but I just can't. The theory behind the original right to buy policy - as I understand it - was that if people lived in a home that they owned, they would be less likely to vote Labour. The proportion of people living in their own home is falling and from what I can tell it is being driven in part by buy to let merchants.

    Now I don't have a problem with buy to let. Many people put in a lot of effort to buy a property, do it up and create a decent home for someone to live in. Understandably people are suspicious of pensions and savings rates are very low. So more and more people want to buy property as it's seen as a safe investment. And with policies like help to buy who can blame them?

    Today's Tories need to bite the bullet and acknowledge that buy to let is part of the problem. Even if it was a token effort to raise tax on buy to let landlords it would show that they understand that it is part of the problem. But they - and Labour too - just can't bring themselves to acknowledge this issue.
  • AlanSAlanS Posts: 9
    Scott_P said:

    At the start of the year, the left-wing pro-independence website Wings over Scotland commissioned a series of Panelbase surveys comparing public attitudes in Scotland with the rest of the United Kingdom. The results were the occasion for a collective intake of breath amongst the Wish Trees for Yes set, as they discovered a Scotland outwith Byres Road and beyond the pages of the Sunday Herald.

    Here they encountered backing for capital punishment, the monarchy, and nuclear weapons and opposition to immigration and defence spending cuts. This wasn’t the Scotland on whose behalf they had fought and sweat and interpretive-danced to cast off the shackles of Westminster neoliberalism. This was a country at one with key centre-right assumptions. It was almost as if Scotland was just like… England.
    http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/analysis/317160-analysis-stephen-daisley-on-public-support-for-the-benefits-cap/

    Thanks for the link. As a Scot living in London, what I don't understand is: who are all these people voting for? Neither SLAB nor SNP represent them at all, there seems to be a huge opening for the Tories, but somehow they've never managed to detox their brand enough after Maggie.
  • Nice day at the beach any pb tories? frinton the better option though..

    Greg Hands‏@GregHands·25 mins25 minutes ago
    Leading team to Clacton next Tuesday to support local @GilesWatling vs my fellow-Fulham resident @DouglasCarswell. Get in touch to join me!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    murali_s said:

    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
    That is based on nationality, not ethnicity. I frankly think it's a nasty divide and rule tactic to divide the country up into different ethnic groups to treat them differently. I would like to think we could move past this sort of racism.
    It just seems very patronising to me. If Labour want to push further on equality with quotas then why not just put a chapter under their manifesto called 'equality' and put it in there?

    Otherwise what they're implying is there's one manifesto for whites and one for non-whites, which is divisive and highly distasteful.
    Indeed. I honestly don't understand this move. Separating non-whites is a bad move. Maybe politically it helps them with certain voters who are in favour of positive discrimination, but it sends a very poor message. People should be treated equally, not be told that they get a different manifesto to everyone else because of the colour of their skin.
    Again, you're speaking from an Utopian perspective. We are quite away from that...
    What we need is better education, not special treatment for certain groups. All that does is create friction. Having a special manifesto for non-whites is a step back for race relations. It is also pretty bloody patronising. It is not utopian to want people to be treated equally and for immigrant groups to integrate, we will never reach that goal if certain groups receive special treatment based on nothing but the colour of their skin. It is segregation and goes against the spirit of community cohesion and integration.
  • Smarmeron said:

    Rachman thrived because of a shortage of affordable housing, which he made even more unaffordable by shifting out the tenants who had been there before with protected rents, then filling them up with incomers.
    To some he was low life scum, to most on here, he would be classed as a heroic free marketeer.

    That was also in a time of rent controls....
    "In order to maximise his rental income from the properties in Notting Hill, he is said to have driven out the—mostly white—sitting tenants, who had statutory protection against high rent increases, and then filled the properties with recent immigrants from the West Indies. New tenants did not have the same protection under the law as had the previous ones...." wikipedia
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Mr. Isam, will he? Didn't watch the debate, but I don't recall Rotherham and related issues being raised.

    Also worth noting most people won't watch, so the take-away from the debates will be filtered by both news that evening and the papers.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TCPoliticalBetting
    Yup, it's amazing the things you can get away with if you know the right people, and have enough money to affect their eyesight.
This discussion has been closed.