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  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2015
    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    How did the launch of Labour's 'Minority Manifesto' go earlier today?

    Is a minority manifesto what I think it is? A separate manifesto for people depending on the colour of their skin?
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/13/labour-ethnic-minority-voters-manifesto-top-jobs-quotas-hate-crime-reforms

    http://www2.labour.org.uk/harman-and-miliband-launch-labours-bame-manifesto
    So basically they are going to stuff the civil service and elsewhere with people based upon meeting quotas, rather than address the real underlying issues. Apparently, it is a really bad thing that our civil service hires people from the worlds best universities, so they will cut down on that.
    The inescapable fact is that people from good universities are going to dominate the top jobs. I don't think that's a bad thing.
    Exactly....the key to all of this is education, education, education....and fostering a culture where educational achievement is highly desired.

    As Labour correctly point out if you are under 25 and black you are twice as likely to be unemployed. What they seem less keen to tell people is why is that? And if you are under 25 and from Chinese or Indian background the opposite is true.

    I mean I guess you could claim racism or note that as a group those from Indian and Chinese backgrounds out perform the average of pretty much every metric when it comes to educational attainment etc.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    Pulpstar said:

    Plato said:

    You're right. IIRC the 24-35 age group tend to drift Labour as they're family orientated. Being brazenly offered by the PM £5000 next year is a big bribe that will shift votes purely based on self-interest.

    It's a cute move, I don't like it fiscally - but I get it.

    Plato said:

    I'm perplexed that the STORY is about RTB, I thought the No Tax Minimum Wage is the killer message for Joe Average. Recycling old Fatcha stuff is just so uninteresting. Many voters weren't born when she was in power. It's a plaster bogeyman.

    It effects more people. Most peculiar, then again I'm a PR wonk with a bias.

    Neither of those are the centrepiece, imo. The centrepiece is the childcare.
    1.6 million kids aged 3 or 4. Plus of course another 2.4 million aged 0-2, and a few twinkles in eyes to boot.
    How much is all this lot costing ?!
    They're bloody expensive.
    I couldn't afford em, herself has 2 horses instead.

    #Shouldhavebeenavet ;)
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610

    The Labour wordings are even better. FWIW I got 80% & 20%

    I scored 0% on the Labour manifesto. Well that's a surprise.
    I got 0% as well but gave the NHS full backing. Not quite sure what happened there, think the Sun must have that mis-marked.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I don't know - a few colleagues did the Moonwalk in their undies and were frozen. Still they felt they'd done *good*

    We get our pleasures where we can. I take on impossible pets.

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    I really don't like this identity politics stuff - at all.

    And as for Labour's idea of mini-manifestos for specific sub-groups...

    ... Was there ever a dafter idea? At best it's incredibly patronising ("we didn't think you were important enough to include these policies in our grown-up manifesto"), or else it looks like a deliberate attempt to present contradictory messages to different groups. Or even to deliberately encourage division on ethnic and other grounds.

    Indeed. Labour's pink lady bus annoyed a lot of women simply because it was PINK. It is a nice colour but it could equally have been red.

    Would the Labour "Men's Policy Bus" go round painted BLUE?

    :(


    Is it true that CRUK's "Race for Life" is only meant for women/girls?
  • Options
    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and my angora jumpers used to provoke A LOT of comments in the mid 90s from male colleagues.

    I'm sure they'd be banned nowadays. It was a bit much but a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    :)

    I have a pink vest top. The only problem is that even I look "chesty" in it. Definitely Not Suitable For Work but if I had been "browbeaten" as you werr I would have worn it anyway... or my one other pink item, a magenta coloured satin nightie (knee length - very modest)

    Sunil has just passed out.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I've quite a wrack and my angora jumpers used to provoke A LOT of comments in the mid 90s from male colleagues.

    In my experience when women wear 'notable' garments to the office those who comment most and most loudly are other women.

  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Labour have released a dodgy dossier on the Tory manifesto

    http://www.labouremail.org.uk/files/uploads/bfbb7d84-8f8f-5a24-21c9-3ac9a65b4905.pdf
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,721

    Plato said:

    When did Yeovil last change hands? It must be decades.

    Danny565 said:



    Outside shot of the Lib Dems losing Yeovil IMO.

    Whatever sympathies one might have for David Laws, it wouldn't be difficult to paint him as an expenses cheat who was lucky to get a slap on the wrist. I wonder how the local Tories are campaigning?
    Tories, expenses?
    Glasshouses, Moats and Duck Houses spring to mind.
    Perhaps, but the Tory challenger does not have an expenses record to defend.
    Maybe, but would it be a good idea to remind the electorate of what wasn't the Tories finest hour?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    MaxPB said:

    The Labour wordings are even better. FWIW I got 80% & 20%

    I scored 0% on the Labour manifesto. Well that's a surprise.
    I got 0% as well but gave the NHS full backing. Not quite sure what happened there, think the Sun must have that mis-marked.
    The £8 Bn is the Conservative policy, that's why :P

    Sheesh !
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    JEO said:

    How did the launch of Labour's 'Minority Manifesto' go earlier today?

    Is a minority manifesto what I think it is? A separate manifesto for people depending on the colour of their skin?
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/13/labour-ethnic-minority-voters-manifesto-top-jobs-quotas-hate-crime-reforms

    http://www2.labour.org.uk/harman-and-miliband-launch-labours-bame-manifesto
    If it is it means that the Labour party is VERY racist - no doubt Diane Abbott has her paws in this. Imagine if UKIP had written a separate manifesto for white Englishmen only.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,472
    edited April 2015

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    I really don't like this identity politics stuff - at all.

    And as for Labour's idea of mini-manifestos for specific sub-groups...

    ... Was there ever a dafter idea? At best it's incredibly patronising ("we didn't think you were important enough to include these policies in our grown-up manifesto"), or else it looks like a deliberate attempt to present contradictory messages to different groups. Or even to deliberately encourage division on ethnic and other grounds.

    Indeed. Labour's pink lady bus annoyed a lot of women simply because it was PINK. It is a nice colour but it could equally have been red.

    Would the Labour "Men's Policy Bus" go round painted BLUE?

    :(


    Is it true that CRUK's "Race for Life" is only meant for women/girls?
    All the cancer 'cure' stuff demanding ever greater efforts and money all over the media is really quite vile, the way it cynically plays upon people's hopes and emotions.

    Unlike AIDS (for example) there isn't a single cause of cancer, and therefore there can never be a single cure. We shouldn't be able to cure cancer - we should be able not to suffer from it. But that wouldn't suit corporations or governments.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Is it true that CRUK's "Race for Life" is only meant for women/girls?

    Can men join the Women's Institute?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,345
    Scott_P said:

    Labour have released a dodgy dossier on the Tory manifesto

    http://www.labouremail.org.uk/files/uploads/bfbb7d84-8f8f-5a24-21c9-3ac9a65b4905.pdf

    "The Tories have the capability of winning the Election in 45 minutes!"
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Labour wordings are even better. FWIW I got 80% & 20%

    I scored 0% on the Labour manifesto. Well that's a surprise.
    I got 0% as well but gave the NHS full backing. Not quite sure what happened there, think the Sun must have that mis-marked.
    The £8 Bn is the Conservative policy, that's why :P

    Sheesh !
    I thought Labour made the same pledge though?
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    The Tories want ID to be required to vote. If we had a problem with impersonation at the vote there would be occasions when someone has turned up to vote to find that someone else has voted for them already.

    Are there news stories about this from previous elections? Any estimates of how widespread it is?
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and .... a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    :):)

    Good for you! I always wanted one of those tee-shirts.

  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Sunil has just passed out.

    :):):):):):):)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Labour wordings are even better. FWIW I got 80% & 20%

    I scored 0% on the Labour manifesto. Well that's a surprise.
    I got 0% as well but gave the NHS full backing. Not quite sure what happened there, think the Sun must have that mis-marked.
    The £8 Bn is the Conservative policy, that's why :P

    Sheesh !
    I thought Labour made the same pledge though?
    No, it's just the sun playing games tbh.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    weejonnie said:

    JEO said:

    How did the launch of Labour's 'Minority Manifesto' go earlier today?

    Is a minority manifesto what I think it is? A separate manifesto for people depending on the colour of their skin?
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/13/labour-ethnic-minority-voters-manifesto-top-jobs-quotas-hate-crime-reforms

    http://www2.labour.org.uk/harman-and-miliband-launch-labours-bame-manifesto
    If it is it means that the Labour party is VERY racist - no doubt Diane Abbott has her paws in this. Imagine if UKIP had written a separate manifesto for white Englishmen only.
    Imagine if UKIP were demanding that a particular percentage of jobs were reserved for white people.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    The Tories want ID to be required to vote. If we had a problem with impersonation at the vote there would be occasions when someone has turned up to vote to find that someone else has voted for them already.

    Are there news stories about this from previous elections? Any estimates of how widespread it is?

    Is it needed this time round ?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    weejonnie said:

    JEO said:

    How did the launch of Labour's 'Minority Manifesto' go earlier today?

    Is a minority manifesto what I think it is? A separate manifesto for people depending on the colour of their skin?
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/13/labour-ethnic-minority-voters-manifesto-top-jobs-quotas-hate-crime-reforms

    http://www2.labour.org.uk/harman-and-miliband-launch-labours-bame-manifesto
    If it is it means that the Labour party is VERY racist - no doubt Diane Abbott has her paws in this. Imagine if UKIP had written a separate manifesto for white Englishmen only.
    What an incredible country we live in, where the people who preach and practice explicit discrimination between races are those who call others racist.. and genuinely think they have right on their side
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2015
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32303686

    Peston lying....he is trying to paint the Tory message is some how inconsistent as it is something for nothing by taking low paid out of income tax and that breaks the "contract" of paying into the system in order to get access to public services / benefits.

    He is lying, because afaik the Tories aren't taking people out of paying NI, just IC. The whole history of NI is exactly for the purpose of funding various benefits and pension. If you don't "pay in" you don't get your state pension, so no such link is broken.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,345
    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and my angora jumpers used to provoke A LOT of comments in the mid 90s from male colleagues.

    I'm sure they'd be banned nowadays. It was a bit much but a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    :)

    I have a pink vest top. The only problem is that even I look "chesty" in it. Definitely Not Suitable For Work but if I had been "browbeaten" as you werr I would have worn it anyway... or my one other pink item, a magenta coloured satin nightie (knee length - very modest)

    Wrack or Rack? :)
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    MaxPB said:

    I thought Labour made the same pledge though?

    No, they explicitly said they did not match it
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    IIRC Gordon claimed in a GE speech that Labour would cure cancer in 20yrs.

    I'm sure a fellow PBer will be able to find this one.

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    I really don't like this identity politics stuff - at all.

    And as for Labour's idea of mini-manifestos for specific sub-groups...

    ... Was there ever a dafter idea? At best it's incredibly patronising ("we didn't think you were important enough to include these policies in our grown-up manifesto"), or else it looks like a deliberate attempt to present contradictory messages to different groups. Or even to deliberately encourage division on ethnic and other grounds.

    Indeed. Labour's pink lady bus annoyed a lot of women simply because it was PINK. It is a nice colour but it could equally have been red.

    Would the Labour "Men's Policy Bus" go round painted BLUE?

    :(


    Is it true that CRUK's "Race for Life" is only meant for women/girls?
    All the cancer 'cure' stuff demanding ever greater efforts and money all over the media is really quite vile, the way it cynically plays upon people's hopes and emotions.

    Unlike AIDS (for example) there isn't a single cause of cancer, and therefore there can never be a single cure. We shouldn't be able to cure cancer - we should be able not to suffer from it. But that wouldn't suit corporations or governments.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610

    The Tories want ID to be required to vote. If we had a problem with impersonation at the vote there would be occasions when someone has turned up to vote to find that someone else has voted for them already.

    Are there news stories about this from previous elections? Any estimates of how widespread it is?

    I think it is more the issue of the same person voting under multiple fictional identities. Requiring a driving licence or other form of ID would ensure that one person only votes once and it will get rid of the "vote early, vote often" problem that may have been seen in Tower Hamlets last year.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,598

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    I really don't like this identity politics stuff - at all.

    And as for Labour's idea of mini-manifestos for specific sub-groups...

    ... Was there ever a dafter idea? At best it's incredibly patronising ("we didn't think you were important enough to include these policies in our grown-up manifesto"), or else it looks like a deliberate attempt to present contradictory messages to different groups. Or even to deliberately encourage division on ethnic and other grounds.

    Indeed. Labour's pink lady bus annoyed a lot of women simply because it was PINK. It is a nice colour but it could equally have been red.

    Would the Labour "Men's Policy Bus" go round painted BLUE?

    :(


    Is it true that CRUK's "Race for Life" is only meant for women/girls?
    Yes. It is beneath contempt.

    I explained to their latest chugger at my door that that is why I wasn't giving anything.

    I came across this when they banned a dad/lad pair who's wife/mum had died friom cancer because they weren't women.

    They now admit boys up to 11 after they got it in the neck for banning a 7 year old boy in Chesterfield who wanted to run with his mum.

    http://www.civilsociety.co.uk/fundraising/news/content/12114/boys_can_join_race_for_life_after_mothers_campaign_success

  • Options
    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    weejonnie said:

    JEO said:

    How did the launch of Labour's 'Minority Manifesto' go earlier today?

    Is a minority manifesto what I think it is? A separate manifesto for people depending on the colour of their skin?
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/13/labour-ethnic-minority-voters-manifesto-top-jobs-quotas-hate-crime-reforms

    http://www2.labour.org.uk/harman-and-miliband-launch-labours-bame-manifesto
    If it is it means that the Labour party is VERY racist - no doubt Diane Abbott has her paws in this. Imagine if UKIP had written a separate manifesto for white Englishmen only.
    The whole thing's a disgrace.

    Imagine how insulted you'd feel as someone from an ethnic minority who's worked their backside off to get a first class degree and land a career in the civil service, only to discover that it was largely irrelevant, and you were picked for the job on the basis of skin colour. I'd go ballistic.

  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Ha! Got 60% Con, 10% Lab, 25% LibDem, 60% UKIP. So in the UK, as in the US, there is no party I am wholeheartedly for. But, yikes!!, I got 60% Green too. Just because I cycle and can pronounce quinoa, I've been to Brighton, think we lock too many up and would decriminalize pot. What about all the incredibly stupid economics?
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    taffys said:

    Is it true that CRUK's "Race for Life" is only meant for women/girls?

    Can men join the Women's Institute?

    Why not? There are no legal definitions of "man" and "woman"
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    Disgraceful stuff from Labour

    “On the current fast stream civil service programme, almost everyone is Oxbridge educated and they are all white, so we will introduce a combination of diversity targets and quotas to address that – including for working-class candidates”, he added.

    How the f*ck are they going to decide who is working class enough - do you get bonus points for owning a whippet, or do you have to have sniffed glue on a Glasgow Housing estate or what ?!
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,345
    edited April 2015

    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and my angora jumpers used to provoke A LOT of comments in the mid 90s from male colleagues.

    I'm sure they'd be banned nowadays. It was a bit much but a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    :)

    I have a pink vest top. The only problem is that even I look "chesty" in it. Definitely Not Suitable For Work but if I had been "browbeaten" as you werr I would have worn it anyway... or my one other pink item, a magenta coloured satin nightie (knee length - very modest)

    Sunil has just passed out.
    Not sure if Plato remembers, but we did meet at a PB bash many moons ago. :)
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,472
    edited April 2015
    Plato said:

    IIRC Gordon claimed in a GE speech that Labour would cure cancer in 20yrs.

    I'm sure a fellow PBer will be able to find this one.

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    I really don't like this identity politics stuff - at all.

    And as for Labour's idea of mini-manifestos for specific sub-groups...

    ... Was there ever a dafter idea? At best it's incredibly patronising ("we didn't think you were important enough to include these policies in our grown-up manifesto"), or else it looks like a deliberate attempt to present contradictory messages to different groups. Or even to deliberately encourage division on ethnic and other grounds.

    Indeed. Labour's pink lady bus annoyed a lot of women simply because it was PINK. It is a nice colour but it could equally have been red.

    Would the Labour "Men's Policy Bus" go round painted BLUE?

    :(


    Is it true that CRUK's "Race for Life" is only meant for women/girls?
    All the cancer 'cure' stuff demanding ever greater efforts and money all over the media is really quite vile, the way it cynically plays upon people's hopes and emotions.

    Unlike AIDS (for example) there isn't a single cause of cancer, and therefore there can never be a single cure. We shouldn't be able to cure cancer - we should be able not to suffer from it. But that wouldn't suit corporations or governments.
    Deeply stupid man.

    Cancer is the result of sustained minute attacks on the body's system. If we stopped stuffing ourselves with refined sugar, refined flour, and rancid unsaturated industrially produced oils and margerines, we'd take a huge step toward eliminating cancer.

    But what do we actually do? Have a BAKE OFF or a TEA PARTY.

  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I read an article earlier that compared Ms Abbott to a pantomime dame. Perfect. Just Perfect.

    Back in the 80s, I was handed the task of finding a secretary for her. She wanted a black female single mother. I delivered one, and was patted on the back by other black power females as a job well done.

    One doesn't forget that sort of thing.
    Sean_F said:

    weejonnie said:

    JEO said:

    How did the launch of Labour's 'Minority Manifesto' go earlier today?

    Is a minority manifesto what I think it is? A separate manifesto for people depending on the colour of their skin?
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/13/labour-ethnic-minority-voters-manifesto-top-jobs-quotas-hate-crime-reforms

    http://www2.labour.org.uk/harman-and-miliband-launch-labours-bame-manifesto
    If it is it means that the Labour party is VERY racist - no doubt Diane Abbott has her paws in this. Imagine if UKIP had written a separate manifesto for white Englishmen only.
    Imagine if UKIP were demanding that a particular percentage of jobs were reserved for white people.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,598
    Scott_P said:

    We had the Lady Bus. In pink....

    I am sorry, is "Lady Bus" a euphemism ...?
    Did you get Gloria, and were they giving out Candy Floss?

    Can we have a pink feminist wibble-bubble and put the Guardian and Harriet Harman inside. Sealed?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,345
    MattW said:

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    I really don't like this identity politics stuff - at all.

    And as for Labour's idea of mini-manifestos for specific sub-groups...

    ... Was there ever a dafter idea? At best it's incredibly patronising ("we didn't think you were important enough to include these policies in our grown-up manifesto"), or else it looks like a deliberate attempt to present contradictory messages to different groups. Or even to deliberately encourage division on ethnic and other grounds.

    Indeed. Labour's pink lady bus annoyed a lot of women simply because it was PINK. It is a nice colour but it could equally have been red.

    Would the Labour "Men's Policy Bus" go round painted BLUE?

    :(


    Is it true that CRUK's "Race for Life" is only meant for women/girls?
    Yes. It is beneath contempt.

    I explained to their latest chugger at my door that that is why I wasn't giving anything.

    I came across this when they banned a dad/lad pair who's wife/mum had died friom cancer because they weren't women.

    They now admit boys up to 11 after they got it in the neck for banning a 7 year old boy in Chesterfield who wanted to run with his mum.

    http://www.civilsociety.co.uk/fundraising/news/content/12114/boys_can_join_race_for_life_after_mothers_campaign_success

    I would imagine Cancer was a "gender-neutral" issue.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Pulpstar, quite.
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    taffys said:

    Is it true that CRUK's "Race for Life" is only meant for women/girls?

    Can men join the Women's Institute?

    Why not? There are no legal definitions of "man" and "woman"
    Au contraire, http://www.thewi.org.uk/faqs/why-are-men-not-allowed-to-join-the-wi
    You are legally the sex it says you are on your birth certificate
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    Disgraceful stuff from Labour

    “On the current fast stream civil service programme, almost everyone is Oxbridge educated and they are all white, so we will introduce a combination of diversity targets and quotas to address that – including for working-class candidates”, he added.

    How the f*ck are they going to decide who is working class enough - do you get bonus points for owning a whippet, or do you have to have sniffed glue on a Glasgow Housing estate or what ?!

    When they have floated these things before, normally "working class" uses definitions about if the individuals parents went to uni and what careers they had.

    Neither of my parents went to university, nor had particularly exciting job titles, but it would be disingenuous to class my upbringing as working class, but when I have looked before at these things I would have met the criteria and IMO making a total mockery.
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    MaxPB said:

    The Tories want ID to be required to vote. If we had a problem with impersonation at the vote there would be occasions when someone has turned up to vote to find that someone else has voted for them already.

    Are there news stories about this from previous elections? Any estimates of how widespread it is?

    I think it is more the issue of the same person voting under multiple fictional identities. Requiring a driving licence or other form of ID would ensure that one person only votes once and it will get rid of the "vote early, vote often" problem that may have been seen in Tower Hamlets last year.
    I thought that had been addressed through the change to the registration system. I had to give my NI number when I registered to vote at my new address recently.

    Also one assumes that ID wouldn't be required to vote by post - which is where the vote fraud with fictional identities was more prevalent, from what I can remember of the few court cases I heard about.
  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    MattW said:

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    I really don't like this identity politics stuff - at all.

    And as for Labour's idea of mini-manifestos for specific sub-groups...

    ... Was there ever a dafter idea? At best it's incredibly patronising ("we didn't think you were important enough to include these policies in our grown-up manifesto"), or else it looks like a deliberate attempt to present contradictory messages to different groups. Or even to deliberately encourage division on ethnic and other grounds.

    Indeed. Labour's pink lady bus annoyed a lot of women simply because it was PINK. It is a nice colour but it could equally have been red.

    Would the Labour "Men's Policy Bus" go round painted BLUE?

    :(


    Is it true that CRUK's "Race for Life" is only meant for women/girls?
    Yes. It is beneath contempt.

    I explained to their latest chugger at my door that that is why I wasn't giving anything.

    I came across this when they banned a dad/lad pair who's wife/mum had died friom cancer because they weren't women.

    They now admit boys up to 11 after they got it in the neck for banning a 7 year old boy in Chesterfield who wanted to run with his mum.

    http://www.civilsociety.co.uk/fundraising/news/content/12114/boys_can_join_race_for_life_after_mothers_campaign_success

    I would imagine Cancer was a "gender-neutral" issue.
    Don't you believe it, tits and ovaries vs balls and prostates. Neutral territory exists too, of course
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    In addition to Labour's minority manifesto, it seems SLAB are releasing a Scottish manifesto on Friday (source, the Guardian).

    In fact, the Welsh appear to be the only people not getting a special Labour manifesto of their very own.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I do. You're a charming fellow and very masculine body hair wise. I never forget a forearm.

    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and my angora jumpers used to provoke A LOT of comments in the mid 90s from male colleagues.

    I'm sure they'd be banned nowadays. It was a bit much but a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    :)

    I have a pink vest top. The only problem is that even I look "chesty" in it. Definitely Not Suitable For Work but if I had been "browbeaten" as you werr I would have worn it anyway... or my one other pink item, a magenta coloured satin nightie (knee length - very modest)

    Sunil has just passed out.
    Not sure if Plato remembers, but we did meet at a PB bash many moons ago. :)
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    edited April 2015

    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and .... a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    :):)

    Good for you! I always wanted one of those tee-shirts.
    I got in trouble a few years ago. A friend had a new girlfriend, now his wife, who combined both thin waist and rather large breasts. When I first met her she was wearing a low-cut top with a gold chain and crucifix hanging in her cleavage. I found my gaze slowly moving down from her face to the cleavage whilst I was talking to her. Then I would look up, and the chain would drag my gaze down once again.

    When I told Mrs J this, she jokingly told me off. A few weeks later she met the lady, and she found herself doing exactly the same thing. ;-)

    (Edit: and when I was on my long walk, my then-GF would wear a promotional T-shirt with the website on. It turned out that the text was right over her breasts. When people asked her for more information, she would say 'read my tits').
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/forget-23-days-to-go-voting-has-already-begun/

    Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire

    Chalk up 1 vote for the Tories !
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,598
    Dear God, it's worse.

    The CRUK drones tried to ban mums because they had new born male babies.

    http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/mums-banned-fundraiser-due-baby-1453246
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Pulpstar said:

    Disgraceful stuff from Labour

    “On the current fast stream civil service programme, almost everyone is Oxbridge educated and they are all white, so we will introduce a combination of diversity targets and quotas to address that – including for working-class candidates”, he added.

    How the f*ck are they going to decide who is working class enough - do you get bonus points for owning a whippet, or do you have to have sniffed glue on a Glasgow Housing estate or what ?!

    Presumably, it would be like Monty Python's Grim Up North sketch.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,345
    Plato said:

    IIRC Gordon claimed in a GE speech that Labour would cure cancer in 20yrs.

    I'm sure a fellow PBer will be able to find this one.

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    I really don't like this identity politics stuff - at all.

    And as for Labour's idea of mini-manifestos for specific sub-groups...

    ... Was there ever a dafter idea? At best it's incredibly patronising ("we didn't think you were important enough to include these policies in our grown-up manifesto"), or else it looks like a deliberate attempt to present contradictory messages to different groups. Or even to deliberately encourage division on ethnic and other grounds.

    Indeed. Labour's pink lady bus annoyed a lot of women simply because it was PINK. It is a nice colour but it could equally have been red.

    Would the Labour "Men's Policy Bus" go round painted BLUE?

    :(


    Is it true that CRUK's "Race for Life" is only meant for women/girls?
    All the cancer 'cure' stuff demanding ever greater efforts and money all over the media is really quite vile, the way it cynically plays upon people's hopes and emotions.

    Unlike AIDS (for example) there isn't a single cause of cancer, and therefore there can never be a single cure. We shouldn't be able to cure cancer - we should be able not to suffer from it. But that wouldn't suit corporations or governments.
    Was it this at the 2009 Labour Party Annual Conference?

    "And so with three major steps forward – early diagnosis, early treatment and our historic investment in research for cancer cures, we in Britain can transform cancer care; and our ambition is no less than to beat cancer in this generation."

    http://www2.labour.org.uk/gordon-brown-speech-conference
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Billy Elliott is your favourite film?
    Pulpstar said:

    Disgraceful stuff from Labour

    “On the current fast stream civil service programme, almost everyone is Oxbridge educated and they are all white, so we will introduce a combination of diversity targets and quotas to address that – including for working-class candidates”, he added.

    How the f*ck are they going to decide who is working class enough - do you get bonus points for owning a whippet, or do you have to have sniffed glue on a Glasgow Housing estate or what ?!

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Disgraceful stuff from Labour

    “On the current fast stream civil service programme, almost everyone is Oxbridge educated and they are all white, so we will introduce a combination of diversity targets and quotas to address that – including for working-class candidates”, he added.

    How the f*ck are they going to decide who is working class enough - do you get bonus points for owning a whippet, or do you have to have sniffed glue on a Glasgow Housing estate or what ?!

    Presumably, it would be like Monty Python's Grim Up North sketch.
    Hah Yes I had this in mind.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,345
    edited April 2015
    Plato said:

    I do. You're a charming fellow and very masculine body hair wise. I never forget a forearm.

    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and my angora jumpers used to provoke A LOT of comments in the mid 90s from male colleagues.

    I'm sure they'd be banned nowadays. It was a bit much but a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    :)

    I have a pink vest top. The only problem is that even I look "chesty" in it. Definitely Not Suitable For Work but if I had been "browbeaten" as you werr I would have worn it anyway... or my one other pink item, a magenta coloured satin nightie (knee length - very modest)

    Sunil has just passed out.
    Not sure if Plato remembers, but we did meet at a PB bash many moons ago. :)
    Permission to swoon? :)

    Thank you!

    But seriously I was under the impression most women dislike body hair - not suggesting it's the only reason I'm still single! :)
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...
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    isamisam Posts: 40,933

    weejonnie said:

    JEO said:

    How did the launch of Labour's 'Minority Manifesto' go earlier today?

    Is a minority manifesto what I think it is? A separate manifesto for people depending on the colour of their skin?
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/13/labour-ethnic-minority-voters-manifesto-top-jobs-quotas-hate-crime-reforms

    http://www2.labour.org.uk/harman-and-miliband-launch-labours-bame-manifesto
    If it is it means that the Labour party is VERY racist - no doubt Diane Abbott has her paws in this. Imagine if UKIP had written a separate manifesto for white Englishmen only.
    The whole thing's a disgrace.

    Imagine how insulted you'd feel as someone from an ethnic minority who's worked their backside off to get a first class degree and land a career in the civil service, only to discover that it was largely irrelevant, and you were picked for the job on the basis of skin colour. I'd go ballistic.

    Exactly, well said.

    The trickle down effect of such policies are we get Kevin Pietersen playing for England, despite having no concern for England whatsoever, because he was too white for the SA team.

    Obviously I have more sympathy for positive discrimination in South Africa, but it isn't necessary in England. If Sadiq Khan gets the mayoralty, any kids I have will lose out to non white kids because of their skin colour (unless my kids mother turns out to be non white I guess)

    In the 21st Century. Madness
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,345
    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,345
    MattW said:

    Dear God, it's worse.

    The CRUK drones tried to ban mums because they had new born male babies.

    http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/mums-banned-fundraiser-due-baby-1453246

    How can they get away with that?
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited April 2015
    Scott_P said:

    Labour have released a dodgy dossier on the Tory manifesto

    http://www.labouremail.org.uk/files/uploads/bfbb7d84-8f8f-5a24-21c9-3ac9a65b4905.pdf

    Soooo that's a Labour Party document trying to point out how terribly irresponsible the Tories are on spending. The same Tories who they've slagged off relentlessly for cutting too-far-too-fast. That's a metric fuckton of chutzpah. I'm unconviced, shall we say.

    Danny565's right, they've lost the plot on this, and are in the process of losing their whole identity.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Well done! It was the most crackingly stupid pledge. Even Saving The World pales in the face of it.

    Plato said:

    IIRC Gordon claimed in a GE speech that Labour would cure cancer in 20yrs.

    I'm sure a fellow PBer will be able to find this one.

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    I really don't like this identity politics stuff - at all.

    And as for Labour's idea of mini-manifestos for specific sub-groups...

    ... Was there ever a dafter idea? At best it's incredibly patronising ("we didn't think you were important enough to include these policies in our grown-up manifesto"), or else it looks like a deliberate attempt to present contradictory messages to different groups. Or even to deliberately encourage division on ethnic and other grounds.

    Indeed. Labour's pink lady bus annoyed a lot of women simply because it was PINK. It is a nice colour but it could equally have been red.

    Would the Labour "Men's Policy Bus" go round painted BLUE?

    :(


    Is it true that CRUK's "Race for Life" is only meant for women/girls?
    All the cancer 'cure' stuff demanding ever greater efforts and money all over the media is really quite vile, the way it cynically plays upon people's hopes and emotions.

    Unlike AIDS (for example) there isn't a single cause of cancer, and therefore there can never be a single cure. We shouldn't be able to cure cancer - we should be able not to suffer from it. But that wouldn't suit corporations or governments.
    Was it this at the 2009 Labour Party Annual Conference?

    "And so with three major steps forward – early diagnosis, early treatment and our historic investment in research for cancer cures, we in Britain can transform cancer care; and our ambition is no less than to beat cancer in this generation."

    http://www2.labour.org.uk/gordon-brown-speech-conference
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MattW said:

    Dear God, it's worse.

    The CRUK drones tried to ban mums because they had new born male babies.

    http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/mums-banned-fundraiser-due-baby-1453246

    Its weird enough that it's a woman's only event but babies are not men or women, they're babies. I have a baby daughter and if I need to change her nappy while out I take her into the men's toilets to change her (unless there's a specific baby changing room). If she'd been born a boy my wife would still have taken him into the ladies bathroom.

    If a baby is young enough to go into the women's toilets for changing they're young enough to go to a "women's only" event.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    Any sign of "Vote Wes Streeting" posters around Sunil.

    Pulpstar - backing London Labour
    Backing the South West Tories
    Backing the SNP ;)
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2015
    I hope Ed isn't in charge of deciding who these normal folks from working class backgrounds are...remember when Ed took a walk in the park to meet these mythical normal folk and met Gareth from IT (Cambridge graduate in a senior position with a software company) or the two girls complaining about no opportunities for their generation (who were from very well off backgrounds and studying for PhD's in Victorian petticoats)
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Well I'd like to comment on this, but in deference to OGH's legal situation I'll just post it:

    https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/587945160283201537
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Pulpstar

    '“On the current fast stream civil service programme, almost everyone is Oxbridge educated and they are all white, so we will introduce a combination of diversity targets and quotas to address that –'

    Really humiliating,did they get the job on merit or on quota.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    My five takes on the Conservative manifesto launch:

    1. This was a major offer. Labour's big pre-manifesto pledge was to end non-dom status, but it was announced the week before. Conservative policies on Right to Buy and childcare are chunky, high-value giveaways.

    2. Cameron is continuing the 'safe and steady' strategy. His delivery was assured but it wasn't as lively as Miliband's speech yesterday - and the audience was more subdued. It's a quiet confidence in Tory ranks vs Labour's belief that the tide is turning.

    3. Foreign policy: Ed Miliband barely touched on it yesterday. Cameron went for it today - on Trident, IS, even deporting hate preachers. It's all part of a strategy to appear as the statesman vs pretender to the job.

    4. Cuts. We still don't have all the details. We know that £12bn of welfare savings still need to be found and this manifesto won't help you if you're looking for where they'll fall.

    5. Should this all have been announced sooner? Loading these policy announcements into an election campaign may give the Conservatives momentum, but it only allows three weeks to embed them into the public's consciousness.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-32301269

    On the last point, some might argue that the last 3 weeks is the only time people are actually paying attention
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Anorak, chutzpah?

    That's one word for it.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I was advised by a professional stylist to wear chokers and neck scarves to keep attention upwards.

    I'm no Dolly Parton but it was most amusing. The Tesco delivery guy today suffered the same affliction. I wasn't wearing a bra under my tee-shirt. Poor fellow was transfixed.

    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and .... a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    :):)

    Good for you! I always wanted one of those tee-shirts.
    I got in trouble a few years ago. A friend had a new girlfriend, now his wife, who combined both thin waist and rather large breasts. When I first met her she was wearing a low-cut top with a gold chain and crucifix hanging in her cleavage. I found my gaze slowly moving down from her face to the cleavage whilst I was talking to her. Then I would look up, and the chain would drag my gaze down once again.

    When I told Mrs J this, she jokingly told me off. A few weeks later she met the lady, and she found herself doing exactly the same thing. ;-)

    (Edit: and when I was on my long walk, my then-GF would wear a promotional T-shirt with the website on. It turned out that the text was right over her breasts. When people asked her for more information, she would say 'read my tits').
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...''

    If its that good why aren't they sharing it with everyone?

    Because 'whitey' won't like it??
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    A bit self-torpedoing prefacing anything "As Tim would say", and I think that was a Porkism anyway.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,803
    Ishmael_X said:

    MattW said:

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    I really don't like this identity politics stuff - at all.

    And as for Labour's idea of mini-manifestos for specific sub-groups...

    ... Was there ever a dafter idea? At best it's incredibly patronising ("we didn't think you were important enough to include these policies in our grown-up manifesto"), or else it looks like a deliberate attempt to present contradictory messages to different groups. Or even to deliberately encourage division on ethnic and other grounds.

    Indeed. Labour's pink lady bus annoyed a lot of women simply because it was PINK. It is a nice colour but it could equally have been red.

    Would the Labour "Men's Policy Bus" go round painted BLUE?

    :(


    Is it true that CRUK's "Race for Life" is only meant for women/girls?
    Yes. It is beneath contempt.

    I explained to their latest chugger at my door that that is why I wasn't giving anything.

    I came across this when they banned a dad/lad pair who's wife/mum had died friom cancer because they weren't women.

    They now admit boys up to 11 after they got it in the neck for banning a 7 year old boy in Chesterfield who wanted to run with his mum.

    http://www.civilsociety.co.uk/fundraising/news/content/12114/boys_can_join_race_for_life_after_mothers_campaign_success

    I would imagine Cancer was a "gender-neutral" issue.
    Don't you believe it, tits and ovaries vs balls and prostates. Neutral territory exists too, of course
    Men get breast cancer too!

  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,345
    Pulpstar said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    Any sign of "Vote Wes Streeting" posters around Sunil.

    Pulpstar - backing London Labour
    Backing the South West Tories
    Backing the SNP ;)
    I haven't seen a single billboard poster in Ilford, or even stuff in people's windows. Passed Redbridge Town Hall on Saturday but very little sign of election stuff in the town centre.

    But only Labour can defeat the Tories in Ilford North!

    Con 36.5
    Lab 34.6
    UKIP 12.9
    LD 8.1
    Inds 5.1
    Grn 2.1
    British Dem 0.9

    (2014 local elections in Ilford North wards, lead candidates in multi-member wards only)
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Taffys, wouldn't want to make the whites angry.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    True equality and fairness is very simple. Best person for the position, regardless of sex, colour, creed, religion. We already have lots of laws that can be used to prosecute those that go out of their way not to hire people based upon their race, their sex etc.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    edited April 2015
    The Labour race discrimination policies are the result of uncontrolled immigration.

    Immigrants tend to be poorer than the population they immigrate to, and hence they tend to do less well paid jobs, because they are still better off than the life they'd have had in the country they were born in.

    If immigration were controlled by the UKIP Australian points style system, immigrants would be by definition be in good jobs. Therefore the climb from immigrant to judge, MP, CEO or whatever it is wouldn't be as steep as it was for the descendents of immigrants from the 60s and 70s

    If you looked at the peers of the immigrants from the 60s and 70s, the white people who lived in the towns they moved to, their grandchildren would not be judges, MPs or CEO anymore than those of the immigrants. I would think the status in terms of prestigious jobs would be roughly similar. It isn't about colour, but social class and money, and its the same for everyone
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Ishmael_X said:

    taffys said:

    Is it true that CRUK's "Race for Life" is only meant for women/girls?

    Can men join the Women's Institute?

    Why not? There are no legal definitions of "man" and "woman"
    Au contraire, http://www.thewi.org.uk/faqs/why-are-men-not-allowed-to-join-the-wi
    You are legally the sex it says you are on your birth certificate
    The birth certificate is not always right. Go look up CAIS - something like 1 in 50,000 people affected and then there are plenty of other "exceptions"

    BTW - to be pedantic - your link only says that certain organisations can ban members of the opposite sex. It does not say how to define or classify sex and do not waste your time telling me that a man is XY and a woman is XX (hit: google xx men or xy women - nature sometimes gets it wrong)
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Oh, I don't mind it. Just never get your back waxed and let it go stubbly. There is NOTHING funnier/sadder/more revolting than that.

    I had a chappy who'd been making eyes at me for years. He plucked up courage to ask me out and then I discovered he waxed his back - it was hilarious, the hair stopped at his shoulders like a welcome mat, and the stubble poked through his shirt.

    I fell about laughing at such poorly executed vanity. I think that effected his game. A lot...

    Even now, I still LOL about it.

    Plato said:

    I do. You're a charming fellow and very masculine body hair wise. I never forget a forearm.

    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and my angora jumpers used to provoke A LOT of comments in the mid 90s from male colleagues.

    I'm sure they'd be banned nowadays. It was a bit much but a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    :)

    I have a pink vest top. The only problem is that even I look "chesty" in it. Definitely Not Suitable For Work but if I had been "browbeaten" as you werr I would have worn it anyway... or my one other pink item, a magenta coloured satin nightie (knee length - very modest)

    Sunil has just passed out.
    Not sure if Plato remembers, but we did meet at a PB bash many moons ago. :)
    Permission to swoon? :)

    Thank you!

    But seriously I was under the impression most women dislike body hair - not suggesting it's the only reason I'm still single! :)
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    True equality and fairness is very simple. Best person for the position, regardless of sex, colour, creed, religion. We already have lots of laws that can be used to prosecute those that go out of their way not to hire people based upon their race, their sex etc.
    I'm not saying progress hasn't been achieved on this over the last 15 years or so but there is a STILL a glass ceiling when it comes to top corporate jobs for example.

    There is still a PERCEPTION from a significant majority of the BAME community that things are skewed against them - some of that is 'in the mind' but some of that is real for sure.
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Ishmael_X said:

    taffys said:

    Is it true that CRUK's "Race for Life" is only meant for women/girls?

    Can men join the Women's Institute?

    Why not? There are no legal definitions of "man" and "woman"
    Au contraire, http://www.thewi.org.uk/faqs/why-are-men-not-allowed-to-join-the-wi
    You are legally the sex it says you are on your birth certificate
    The birth certificate is not always right. Go look up CAIS - something like 1 in 50,000 people affected and then there are plenty of other "exceptions"

    BTW - to be pedantic - your link only says that certain organisations can ban members of the opposite sex. It does not say how to define or classify sex and do not waste your time telling me that a man is XY and a woman is XX (hit: google xx men or xy women - nature sometimes gets it wrong)
    I was addressing your implied statement that men can join the WI.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,345
    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited April 2015
    Online v Phone...

    http://www.comres.co.uk/look-past-polls-of-polls-the-conservatives-have-been-leading-all-year/

    Key para (but then he would say that, wouldn't he...)

    We’ve been conducting voting intention both online and by telephone for the past five years, and up to now they’ve told a similar story throughout. In the heat of an election campaign though, people signed up to online panels may be at risk of being over-surveyed: bombarded with voting intention questions and information about the campaign in order to get their opinion of it. In this instance, for the time being at least, telephone polling of randomised landline and mobile numbers becomes your photographer’s dark room: used when you need to get the very crispest definition between your colours but requiring lots of time and attention. By polling day, telephone polls were most accurate in the 2010 General Election, the AV referendum in 2011 and at the Scottish referendum last year.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    I can't see the manifestos released so far making much difference to VI. What the parties needed was a base of solid but unremarkable policies to calm the horses, on top of which is built a pyramid of increasingly attractive and headline-worthy policies. The pyramid would be topped off with the main policy.

    Instead, both Labour and the Conservatives have just delivered frustrums. Both have foundations, but the slaves have downed tools before they topped out.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,803
    Plato said:

    Oh, I don't mind it. Just never get your back waxed and let it go stubbly. There is NOTHING funnier/sadder/more revolting than that.

    I had a chappy who'd been making eyes at me for years. He plucked up courage to ask me out and then I discovered he waxed his back - it was hilarious, the hair stopped at his shoulders like a welcome mat, and the stubble poked through his shirt.

    I fell about laughing at such poorly executed vanity. I think that effected his game. A lot...

    Even now, I still LOL about it.

    Plato said:

    I do. You're a charming fellow and very masculine body hair wise. I never forget a forearm.

    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and my angora jumpers used to provoke A LOT of comments in the mid 90s from male colleagues.

    I'm sure they'd be banned nowadays. It was a bit much but a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    :)

    I have a pink vest top. The only problem is that even I look "chesty" in it. Definitely Not Suitable For Work but if I had been "browbeaten" as you werr I would have worn it anyway... or my one other pink item, a magenta coloured satin nightie (knee length - very modest)

    Sunil has just passed out.
    Not sure if Plato remembers, but we did meet at a PB bash many moons ago. :)
    Permission to swoon? :)

    Thank you!

    But seriously I was under the impression most women dislike body hair - not suggesting it's the only reason I'm still single! :)
    One of my school fellows was ordered to have a haircut on his chest, by a master who was obviously very jealous of his masculinity ...

  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,345
    Plato said:

    Oh, I don't mind it. Just never get your back waxed and let it go stubbly. There is NOTHING funnier/sadder/more revolting than that.

    I had a chappy who'd been making eyes at me for years. He plucked up courage to ask me out and then I discovered he waxed his back - it was hilarious, the hair stopped at his shoulders like a welcome mat, and the stubble poked through his shirt.

    I fell about laughing at such poorly executed vanity. I think that effected his game. A lot...

    Even now, I still LOL about it.

    Plato said:

    I do. You're a charming fellow and very masculine body hair wise. I never forget a forearm.

    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and my angora jumpers used to provoke A LOT of comments in the mid 90s from male colleagues.

    I'm sure they'd be banned nowadays. It was a bit much but a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    :)

    I have a pink vest top. The only problem is that even I look "chesty" in it. Definitely Not Suitable For Work but if I had been "browbeaten" as you werr I would have worn it anyway... or my one other pink item, a magenta coloured satin nightie (knee length - very modest)

    Sunil has just passed out.
    Not sure if Plato remembers, but we did meet at a PB bash many moons ago. :)
    Permission to swoon? :)

    Thank you!

    But seriously I was under the impression most women dislike body hair - not suggesting it's the only reason I'm still single! :)
    :lol:

    So you're telling me there's a chance? [beat]

    YEAH!!!!!

    youtube.com/watch?v=zMRrNY0pxfM
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    @Plato: And you knew the poor man was coming as well!! - not sure this method of canvassing would go down well in Eastbourne but it would liven up some of the older (male) codgers. Was it a hot day chez vous?

    -
    Plato said:

    I was advised by a professional stylist to wear chokers and neck scarves to keep attention upwards.

    I'm no Dolly Parton but it was most amusing. The Tesco delivery guy today suffered the same affliction. I wasn't wearing a bra under my tee-shirt. Poor fellow was transfixed.

    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and .... a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    :):)

    Good for you! I always wanted one of those tee-shirts.
    I got in trouble a few years ago. A friend had a new girlfriend, now his wife, who combined both thin waist and rather large breasts. When I first met her she was wearing a low-cut top with a gold chain and crucifix hanging in her cleavage. I found my gaze slowly moving down from her face to the cleavage whilst I was talking to her. Then I would look up, and the chain would drag my gaze down once again.

    When I told Mrs J this, she jokingly told me off. A few weeks later she met the lady, and she found herself doing exactly the same thing. ;-)

    (Edit: and when I was on my long walk, my then-GF would wear a promotional T-shirt with the website on. It turned out that the text was right over her breasts. When people asked her for more information, she would say 'read my tits').
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    Farage not heading to the west country, seemingly at all, during the campaign...

    Bob Constantine ‏@BobConstantine 1m1 minute ago

    Why has Nigel Farage not come to the West during #ELECTION2015? Request for interview met with "plans to come to the region temp shelved"
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    I'm not sure that I'd view Tim as having a particularly good idea of right and wrong.
  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    See the SI gap has widened to 15!
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I'm not much for underwear. My mum wasn't either. Is that TMI?
    Financier said:

    @Plato: And you knew the poor man was coming as well!! - not sure this method of canvassing would go down well in Eastbourne but it would liven up some of the older (male) codgers. Was it a hot day chez vous?

    -

    Plato said:

    I was advised by a professional stylist to wear chokers and neck scarves to keep attention upwards.

    I'm no Dolly Parton but it was most amusing. The Tesco delivery guy today suffered the same affliction. I wasn't wearing a bra under my tee-shirt. Poor fellow was transfixed.

    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and .... a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    :):)

    Good for you! I always wanted one of those tee-shirts.
    I got in trouble a few years ago. A friend had a new girlfriend, now his wife, who combined both thin waist and rather large breasts. When I first met her she was wearing a low-cut top with a gold chain and crucifix hanging in her cleavage. I found my gaze slowly moving down from her face to the cleavage whilst I was talking to her. Then I would look up, and the chain would drag my gaze down once again.

    When I told Mrs J this, she jokingly told me off. A few weeks later she met the lady, and she found herself doing exactly the same thing. ;-)

    (Edit: and when I was on my long walk, my then-GF would wear a promotional T-shirt with the website on. It turned out that the text was right over her breasts. When people asked her for more information, she would say 'read my tits').
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,345
    Plato said:

    I'm not much for underwear. My mum wasn't either. Is that TMI?

    Financier said:

    @Plato: And you knew the poor man was coming as well!! - not sure this method of canvassing would go down well in Eastbourne but it would liven up some of the older (male) codgers. Was it a hot day chez vous?

    -

    Plato said:

    I was advised by a professional stylist to wear chokers and neck scarves to keep attention upwards.

    I'm no Dolly Parton but it was most amusing. The Tesco delivery guy today suffered the same affliction. I wasn't wearing a bra under my tee-shirt. Poor fellow was transfixed.

    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and .... a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    :):)

    Good for you! I always wanted one of those tee-shirts.
    I got in trouble a few years ago. A friend had a new girlfriend, now his wife, who combined both thin waist and rather large breasts. When I first met her she was wearing a low-cut top with a gold chain and crucifix hanging in her cleavage. I found my gaze slowly moving down from her face to the cleavage whilst I was talking to her. Then I would look up, and the chain would drag my gaze down once again.

    When I told Mrs J this, she jokingly told me off. A few weeks later she met the lady, and she found herself doing exactly the same thing. ;-)

    (Edit: and when I was on my long walk, my then-GF would wear a promotional T-shirt with the website on. It turned out that the text was right over her breasts. When people asked her for more information, she would say 'read my tits').
    Well, I've never worn a bra myself :lol:

    :lol::lol::lol:
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    NOT winning here...

    @paulwaugh: Priceless Lib Dem leaflet: ‘you shdn’t vote’ for Nick Clegg cos he’s ‘not interested in yr local area’
    http://t.co/SJoOxAwypC
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    That deserves a Darwin Award
    Scott_P said:

    NOT winning here...

    @paulwaugh: Priceless Lib Dem leaflet: ‘you shdn’t vote’ for Nick Clegg cos he’s ‘not interested in yr local area’
    http://t.co/SJoOxAwypC

  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Andrew Hawkins is saying in a long email that the "crossover" took place at the turn of the year and the Tories have been ahead ever since.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Ishmael_X said:


    I was addressing your implied statement that men can join the WI.

    Fair enough - but even the WI might have a sticky time defining who is a man and who is a woman. I know that sounds mad but I was involved in a project some time ago and it is actually a grey area. The only reference is a piece of paper that is based on someone's opinion and in as many as 1% of births that quick squint between the legs produces an "Um..." rather than "Boy" or "Girl".

    Think about that - your legal sex is based on a two second glance between your legs on day one and then a chain of people writing it down without making any mistakes or mixing you up.


  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited April 2015
    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    PeterC said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Plato said:

    How did you feel about the Labour manifesto? What caught your eye? It's passed me by and I really need to read it.

    Danny565 said:

    Think the manifestos might well be the turning point of the whole election. Labour completely miscalculated: people don't want "credibility", they want HOPE that things are going to get better, and on that score the Tories are outgunning Labour (even if they don't keep any of their promises).

    I thought nothing about it tbh. It's just so incredibly bland that you wonder why they're bothering to stand in this election atall if they have that little to say.

    Even more depressing is their reaction to the Tory manifesto today. People don't want to hear nitpicking about how realistic or "costed" things are; people are currently so desperate for some hope that they WANT to believe things are going to get better.
    Indeed, Purseybear will be delighted. Or maybe she won't. Hard to tell. Difficult call. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
    90% probability Con Gain Westmorland and Lonsdale I heard.

    Best get on fast.
    I'd love to see W&L back in the Tory column. I spend a lot of my time there, and still find it hard to believe it's not blue!
    Will have big implications for any renewal of the Con/Lib coalition and/or LibDem leadership contest if Farron is out.

    It'll have big implications for the Lib Dems too as Julian Huppert is the sole remaining MP.
    News from Huppertville is that with the Con candidate getting herself in a tangle at a local hustings over "writsbands for the mentally disabled" that Hupperts nailed on nails are now nailed on.

    Can't believe the way the odds have moved that the bookies have taken much on the reds for the seat.
    Was the implication that "wristbands for the mentally disabled" should be compulsory ?

    If so, then perhaps she should go the full measure and consider they wear a star on their out garments and carry a bell too. :anguished:

  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,827
    edited April 2015
    surbiton said:

    Andrew Hawkins is saying in a long email that the "crossover" took place at the turn of the year and the Tories have been ahead ever since.

    Andrew Hawkins emails you? :open_mouth:

  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Not really - sure there are lots of Commandos in your area.
    Plato said:

    I'm not much for underwear. My mum wasn't either. Is that TMI?

    Financier said:

    @Plato: And you knew the poor man was coming as well!! - not sure this method of canvassing would go down well in Eastbourne but it would liven up some of the older (male) codgers. Was it a hot day chez vous?

    -

    Plato said:

    I was advised by a professional stylist to wear chokers and neck scarves to keep attention upwards.

    I'm no Dolly Parton but it was most amusing. The Tesco delivery guy today suffered the same affliction. I wasn't wearing a bra under my tee-shirt. Poor fellow was transfixed.

    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and .... a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    :):)

    Good for you! I always wanted one of those tee-shirts.
    I got in trouble a few years ago. A friend had a new girlfriend, now his wife, who combined both thin waist and rather large breasts. When I first met her she was wearing a low-cut top with a gold chain and crucifix hanging in her cleavage. I found my gaze slowly moving down from her face to the cleavage whilst I was talking to her. Then I would look up, and the chain would drag my gaze down once again.

    When I told Mrs J this, she jokingly told me off. A few weeks later she met the lady, and she found herself doing exactly the same thing. ;-)

    (Edit: and when I was on my long walk, my then-GF would wear a promotional T-shirt with the website on. It turned out that the text was right over her breasts. When people asked her for more information, she would say 'read my tits').
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited April 2015
    surbiton said:

    Andrew Hawkins is saying in a long email that the "crossover" took place at the turn of the year and the Tories have been ahead ever since.

    Yeah, that's the piece I quoted below: http://www.comres.co.uk/look-past-polls-of-polls-the-conservatives-have-been-leading-all-year/

    Somewhat ironically - and assuming his thesis is correct - then the continued parity in online polls is actually really good for the Tories as it keeps the prospect of EICIPM in the minds of Kippers.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Have you seen the Louis Theroux docs on transgender children - it's probably on catch-up tv somewhere.

    It's provocative and enlightening. It made me rethink a few things.

    Ishmael_X said:


    I was addressing your implied statement that men can join the WI.

    Fair enough - but even the WI might have a sticky time defining who is a man and who is a woman. I know that sounds mad but I was involved in a project some time ago and it is actually a grey area. The only reference is a piece of paper that is based on someone's opinion and in as many as 1% of births that quick squint between the legs produces an "Um..." rather than "Boy" or "Girl".

    Think about that - your legal sex is based on a two second glance between your legs on day one and then a chain of people writing it down without making any mistakes or mixing you up.


  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Plato said:

    Oh, I don't mind it. Just never get your back waxed and let it go stubbly. There is NOTHING funnier/sadder/more revolting than that.

    I had a chappy who'd been making eyes at me for years. He plucked up courage to ask me out and then I discovered he waxed his back - it was hilarious, the hair stopped at his shoulders like a welcome mat, and the stubble poked through his shirt.

    I fell about laughing at such poorly executed vanity. I think that effected his game. A lot...

    Even now, I still LOL about it.

    Plato said:

    I do. You're a charming fellow and very masculine body hair wise. I never forget a forearm.

    Plato said:

    I've quite a wrack and my angora jumpers used to provoke A LOT of comments in the mid 90s from male colleagues.

    I'm sure they'd be banned nowadays. It was a bit much but a great distraction when I wanted to sway an argument."No, I'm up here..."

    Plato said:

    A decade ago we had some female cancer thingy at work which demanded that we wore pink. I was browbeaten into playing along by my HR Dir as *showing concern*

    I looked at my wardrobe and noticed that with over 20ft of hanging space - there wasn't a single pink garment. Not even undies.

    :)

    I have a pink vest top. The only problem is that even I look "chesty" in it. Definitely Not Suitable For Work but if I had been "browbeaten" as you werr I would have worn it anyway... or my one other pink item, a magenta coloured satin nightie (knee length - very modest)

    Sunil has just passed out.
    Not sure if Plato remembers, but we did meet at a PB bash many moons ago. :)
    Permission to swoon? :)

    Thank you!

    But seriously I was under the impression most women dislike body hair - not suggesting it's the only reason I'm still single! :)
    Plato, only you can raise the quality of the discussion !
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,408
    Sean_F said:

    weejonnie said:

    JEO said:

    How did the launch of Labour's 'Minority Manifesto' go earlier today?

    Is a minority manifesto what I think it is? A separate manifesto for people depending on the colour of their skin?
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/13/labour-ethnic-minority-voters-manifesto-top-jobs-quotas-hate-crime-reforms

    http://www2.labour.org.uk/harman-and-miliband-launch-labours-bame-manifesto
    If it is it means that the Labour party is VERY racist - no doubt Diane Abbott has her paws in this. Imagine if UKIP had written a separate manifesto for white Englishmen only.
    Imagine if UKIP were demanding that a particular percentage of jobs were reserved for white people.
    Why I'm voting Tory, Sean. Whatever social policy nonsense Clegg and Cameron may decide if reelected will be a picnic compared to what Labour under Miliband will put the country through.
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    As Tim would say "Off go the PB Burleys on race"

    Personally, very impressed with Labour's BAME manifesto. Lots to work on to get true equality and fairness...

    Why can't there be a single manifesto for everyone?
    All things being equal, that would be ideal.
    So why go for an ethnic minority one too?
    Because ethnic minorities still have specific issues. Some of which is inherent to the community in question, some of which is about equality etc.

    For example, I invited my mother-in-law to visit us from Sri Lanka for a few weeks earlier this year and she was refused a visiting visa. We've obviously appealed this appalling decision but it just goes to underline the perception that ethnic minorities are not treated equally in all facets of life here in the UK.

    PS - My in-laws are comfortable middle class folk (my father-in-law is a doctor!)
This discussion has been closed.