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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Just over a week to go before voting starts

SystemSystem Posts: 12,217
edited April 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Just over a week to go before voting starts

You might have thought that there’s more than a month to go in this election but early next week the first postal voting packs will be going out and people will start voting in GE2015.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited April 2015
    First!

    (I was just thinking to my self how nice it was going to be watching the general election coverage as I eat my breakfast and lunch, but then I realised I am going to be on vacation on a tropical island with no internet worth a damn, life is tough sometimes!)
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    There are still tropical islands without internet access ? Where?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Received to date: one poll card; one leaflet (from Labour). And I'm not on a tropical island.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Received to date: one poll card; one leaflet (from Labour). And I'm not on a tropical island.

    We are getting 15-20 election communications per week.

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    There are still tropical islands without internet access ? Where?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siargao

    GPRS from a cell phone on a good day. Which is an improvement on the first time I visited 15 years ago where there was one land line telephone on the island and you had to queue to make your call!
  • Received to date: one poll card; one leaflet (from Labour). And I'm not on a tropical island.

    We are getting 15-20 election communications per week.

    But you are having five times as many elections/referenda as some of us.

    My favourite was the poll in Vancouver. Do you think the local transport facilities should be improved? YES 70%. Would you be willing to pay an extra 0.5% in sales tax to achieve this? NO 70%.

    IA's law states that, in any so-called "mature" democracy, 40% of voters expect something for nothing.

  • PurseybearPurseybear Posts: 766
    Nearly through Easter and the polls should shakedown over the next week. I really don't know what to make of this election. Whenever I think the tories should pull away I have nagging doubts. The budget blew it for me but I've misjudged the tories a lot. Its just, will people really favour austerity over chilling out? I'm not so sure. Last time the tories went to the country with a fantastic economic competence record and 'steady-as-she-goes' message they got taken to the cleaners by labour. Then there's the whole 'tory toff' problem which is gonna lose them some support + ukip. Against that is the LD fall in E&W. And Miliband is no Blair.

    Don't know. Really don't know.

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Received to date: one poll card; one leaflet (from Labour). And I'm not on a tropical island.

    We are getting 15-20 election communications per week.

    But you are having five times as many elections/referenda as some of us.

    My favourite was the poll in Vancouver. Do you think the local transport facilities should be improved? YES 70%. Would you be willing to pay an extra 0.5% in sales tax to achieve this? NO 70%.

    IA's law states that, in any so-called "mature" democracy, 40% of voters expect something for nothing.

    Indeed. Or at the very least they expect something that everyone else (or some subset of "everyone else") is going to pay for.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited April 2015

    Nearly through Easter and the polls should shakedown over the next week. I really don't know what to make of this election. Whenever I think the tories should pull away I have nagging doubts. The budget blew it for me but I've misjudged the tories a lot. Its just, will people really favour austerity over chilling out? I'm not so sure. Last time the tories went to the country with a fantastic economic competence record and 'steady-as-she-goes' message they got taken to the cleaners by labour. Then there's the whole 'tory toff' problem which is gonna lose them some support + ukip. Against that is the LD fall in E&W. And Miliband is no Blair.

    Don't know. Really don't know.

    The Tory vote is pretty much what it was in 2010, that is to say, not enough. The problem largely appears to be, in effect, that the NOTA vote has moved from the LDs to the kippers. The LDs having a number of closely held seats could use that vote to take 40-50 seats, the kippers being widely spread and thin on the ground in any one place largely won't.

    A little more political nous, and a little less grandstanding from a more able leadership might have completed a drift toward the centre without losing quite so many on the right, which would have put them on course for a majority.

    My problem with a "competence vs chaos" meme is that competence doesn't fire anyone up, and get out the vote, its what you hope any professional person will do (yes, I know its less common in politics). When you ask Cameron what he stands for, what fires him up about politics, what he wants to achieve, there is a polite silence, almost as if the question is in bad taste.
  • Indigo said:

    Nearly through Easter and the polls should shakedown over the next week. I really don't know what to make of this election. Whenever I think the tories should pull away I have nagging doubts. The budget blew it for me but I've misjudged the tories a lot. Its just, will people really favour austerity over chilling out? I'm not so sure. Last time the tories went to the country with a fantastic economic competence record and 'steady-as-she-goes' message they got taken to the cleaners by labour. Then there's the whole 'tory toff' problem which is gonna lose them some support + ukip. Against that is the LD fall in E&W. And Miliband is no Blair.

    Don't know. Really don't know.

    The Tory vote is pretty much what it was in 2010, that is to say, not enough. The problem largely appears to be, in effect, that the NOTA vote has moved from the LDs to the kippers. The LDs having a number of closely held seats could use that vote to take 40-50 seats, the kippers being widely spread and thin on the ground in any one place largely won't.

    A little more political nous, and a little less grandstanding from a more able leadership might have completed a drift toward the centre without losing quite so many on the right, which would have put them on course for a majority.
    You have to have faith: remember, David Cameron is the Lamb of God!

  • PurseybearPurseybear Posts: 766
    Indigo said:

    Nearly through Easter and the polls should shakedown over the next week. I really don't know what to make of this election. Whenever I think the tories should pull away I have nagging doubts. The budget blew it for me but I've misjudged the tories a lot. Its just, will people really favour austerity over chilling out? I'm not so sure. Last time the tories went to the country with a fantastic economic competence record and 'steady-as-she-goes' message they got taken to the cleaners by labour. Then there's the whole 'tory toff' problem which is gonna lose them some support + ukip. Against that is the LD fall in E&W. And Miliband is no Blair.

    Don't know. Really don't know.

    The Tory vote is pretty much what it was in 2010, that is to say, not enough. The problem largely appears to be, in effect, that the NOTA vote has moved from the LDs to the kippers. The LDs having a number of closely held seats could use that vote to take 40-50 seats, the kippers being widely spread and thin on the ground in any one place largely won't.

    A little more political nous, and a little less grandstanding from a more able leadership might have completed a drift toward the centre without losing quite so many on the right, which would have put them on course for a majority.
    Hi. You're saying GE2010 LDs have switched to ukip?

    Moving to the centre seems fine to me providing you win working man, but thats Cameron & Osbornes problem. They don't often seem to speak for ordinary people in the way say that Maggie or even Major did. Too often they seem like old tory grandees. Case in point yesterday. Why didn't Osborne just reply 'I'm hoping to cut taxes for everyone'? So simple. But if you don't know what its like to live on the breadline you'll never get that.

    In the absence of any big momentum this could be a weird election with a very divided britain. London looks to me like its going big time labour, but even there we could see big divide between east end and west end.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited April 2015

    Indigo said:

    Nearly through Easter and the polls should shakedown over the next week. I really don't know what to make of this election. Whenever I think the tories should pull away I have nagging doubts. The budget blew it for me but I've misjudged the tories a lot. Its just, will people really favour austerity over chilling out? I'm not so sure. Last time the tories went to the country with a fantastic economic competence record and 'steady-as-she-goes' message they got taken to the cleaners by labour. Then there's the whole 'tory toff' problem which is gonna lose them some support + ukip. Against that is the LD fall in E&W. And Miliband is no Blair.

    Don't know. Really don't know.

    The Tory vote is pretty much what it was in 2010, that is to say, not enough. The problem largely appears to be, in effect, that the NOTA vote has moved from the LDs to the kippers. The LDs having a number of closely held seats could use that vote to take 40-50 seats, the kippers being widely spread and thin on the ground in any one place largely won't.

    A little more political nous, and a little less grandstanding from a more able leadership might have completed a drift toward the centre without losing quite so many on the right, which would have put them on course for a majority.
    Hi. You're saying GE2010 LDs have switched to ukip?
    No, although I think a fair chunk of the NOTA vote that was with the LDs before will have gone to the kippers. I was saying that was the net effect taking into account all the movements, because the CONs will probably be roughly where they were in 2010 in terms of percentage of the vote, so what they have gained in the centre they have lost on the right.

    At the same time one possible coalition partner has collapsed, and another possible (although less likely) partner (the kippers) will have the votes, but owing to being thinly spread won't have the seats. The Tories might wibble about not doing a deal with the kippers, but if Farage had 30 seats they would bite his arm off.

    London is going to be interesting in terms of how efficient Labour vote is, its going to do them no good at all piling up 40k majorities in places like East Ham and then losing Hampstead & Highgate.
  • PurseybearPurseybear Posts: 766
    Yes you could well be right Indigo. I cant personally write what 'will' happen because I just don't know. I just don't know.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Nearly through Easter and the polls should shakedown over the next week. I really don't know what to make of this election. Whenever I think the tories should pull away I have nagging doubts. The budget blew it for me but I've misjudged the tories a lot. Its just, will people really favour austerity over chilling out? I'm not so sure. Last time the tories went to the country with a fantastic economic competence record and 'steady-as-she-goes' message they got taken to the cleaners by labour. Then there's the whole 'tory toff' problem which is gonna lose them some support + ukip. Against that is the LD fall in E&W. And Miliband is no Blair.

    Don't know. Really don't know.

    When was this "Last time the tories went to the country with a fantastic economic competence record" and lost?

    Not 1997 following repeated booms and busts, capped by the total collapse of Tory economic policy when ejected from the ERM. Not 1974 after austerity was replaced by the Barber boom, later blamed by monetarists and Thatcherites for having caused the inflation against which Labour struggled. Not 1964, following stop/go and low growth. 1945 is a special case. Perhaps you meant 1929.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited April 2015
    I am wondering how many voters don't really have a view on politics at all, either because they are not interested, or because they believe they are all as bad as each other, and by extension will decide their vote by a general impression of "prime-ministerial-ness" which might benefit Cameron more than his deserves on the day.

    I am thinking particularly here of the Michael Foot effect, who was by the standards of current politicians an intellectual and oratorical titan with a sartorial death wish. When people discuss Foot they tend not to say they didn't want him as PM because he was a dangerous socialist, or because he was in the union's pocket, or because they didn't like his intellectual or debating positions. They mostly say they didn't want him to be PM because he looked like he had just arrived from a picket line, its was the "donkey jacket" image that killed him, especially the supposed donkey jacket at the cenotaph, which apparently was actually
    the coat was not a donkey jacket – which would have leather shoulders – but a “a short, blue-green overcoat” bought for Mr Foot by his wife, Jill at considerable expense.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/7361078/Michael-Foot-and-the-donkey-jacket-that-wasnt.html
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Nearly through Easter and the polls should shakedown over the next week. I really don't know what to make of this election. Whenever I think the tories should pull away I have nagging doubts. The budget blew it for me but I've misjudged the tories a lot. Its just, will people really favour austerity over chilling out? I'm not so sure. Last time the tories went to the country with a fantastic economic competence record and 'steady-as-she-goes' message they got taken to the cleaners by labour. Then there's the whole 'tory toff' problem which is gonna lose them some support + ukip. Against that is the LD fall in E&W. And Miliband is no Blair.

    Don't know. Really don't know.

    When was this "Last time the tories went to the country with a fantastic economic competence record" and lost?

    Not 1997 following repeated booms and busts, capped by the total collapse of Tory economic policy when ejected from the ERM. Not 1974 after austerity was replaced by the Barber boom, later blamed by monetarists and Thatcherites for having caused the inflation against which Labour struggled. Not 1964, following stop/go and low growth. 1945 is a special case. Perhaps you meant 1929.
    When did the last Labour chancellor promise to continue with "Tory budget plans" for the next three years. Presumably those plans must have had something going for them with the electorate for him to make such a pledge. Good heavens it wasn't Gordon Brown in 1997 was it ?!
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Indigo said:

    There are still tropical islands without internet access ? Where?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siargao

    GPRS from a cell phone on a good day. Which is an improvement on the first time I visited 15 years ago where there was one land line telephone on the island and you had to queue to make your call!
    If there was no Internet connection I wouldn't go. Last month I went through the Channel Tunnel and found that I had a connection all the way. What's incredible is how much coverage has expanded and now you don't even need to worry about roaming charges. With 4G becoming much more widely available you don't need to be hunting for a WiFi connection


  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Indigo said:

    Nearly through Easter and the polls should shakedown over the next week. I really don't know what to make of this election. Whenever I think the tories should pull away I have nagging doubts. The budget blew it for me but I've misjudged the tories a lot. Its just, will people really favour austerity over chilling out? I'm not so sure. Last time the tories went to the country with a fantastic economic competence record and 'steady-as-she-goes' message they got taken to the cleaners by labour. Then there's the whole 'tory toff' problem which is gonna lose them some support + ukip. Against that is the LD fall in E&W. And Miliband is no Blair.

    Don't know. Really don't know.

    When was this "Last time the tories went to the country with a fantastic economic competence record" and lost?

    Not 1997 following repeated booms and busts, capped by the total collapse of Tory economic policy when ejected from the ERM. Not 1974 after austerity was replaced by the Barber boom, later blamed by monetarists and Thatcherites for having caused the inflation against which Labour struggled. Not 1964, following stop/go and low growth. 1945 is a special case. Perhaps you meant 1929.
    When did the last Labour chancellor promise to continue with "Tory budget plans" for the next three years. Presumably those plans must have had something going for them with the electorate for him to make such a pledge. Good heavens it wasn't Gordon Brown in 1997 was it ?!
    And Osborne committed to following Labour's. It's the new black.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited April 2015
    Well, well .... many PBers will have woken up this morning with a huge lump ....

    No, not in your throat or next to you in bed ....

    But your pension pot !!

    The big question for PB will be what OGH will spend his pension pot on. The betting from Lad-Hills presently is :

    1. A decade supply of Chanel No 666 Hair Tonic Pour Homme - 6/4 fav
    2. £20K donation to Vince Cable in Twickenham - 5/1
    3. £100K investment for a 2% stake in my ARSE - 8/1
    4. 51% share of the Bedford Sandal Co Ltd - 10/1
    5. £1M trust fund for son Robert - 100/1

    Huzzah for Pensions Minister Steve Webb and the Coalition. :smile:
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Indigo said:

    There are still tropical islands without internet access ? Where?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siargao

    GPRS from a cell phone on a good day. Which is an improvement on the first time I visited 15 years ago where there was one land line telephone on the island and you had to queue to make your call!
    If there was no Internet connection I wouldn't go. Last month I went through the Channel Tunnel and found that I had a connection all the way. What's incredible is how much coverage has expanded and now you don't even need to worry about roaming charges. With 4G becoming much more widely available you don't need to be hunting for a WiFi connection
    Welcome to the third world :) Its a 40 minute flight from where I live and we have relatives there so its not just a holiday break, and there are some compensations http://goo.gl/FHsuoT

  • PurseybearPurseybear Posts: 766
    edited April 2015
    Indigo said:

    I am wondering how many voters don't really have a view on politics at all, either because they are not interested, or because they believe they are all as bad as each other, and by extension will decide their vote by a general impression of "prime-ministerial-ness" which might benefit Cameron more than his deserves on the day.

    Yes I think turnout could be low. Cant see that many young people voting in particular.

    Its a deathly dull election so far.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    There are still tropical islands without internet access ? Where?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siargao

    GPRS from a cell phone on a good day. Which is an improvement on the first time I visited 15 years ago where there was one land line telephone on the island and you had to queue to make your call!
    If there was no Internet connection I wouldn't go. Last month I went through the Channel Tunnel and found that I had a connection all the way. What's incredible is how much coverage has expanded and now you don't even need to worry about roaming charges. With 4G becoming much more widely available you don't need to be hunting for a WiFi connection
    Welcome to the third world :) Its a 40 minute flight from where I live and we have relatives there so its not just a holiday break, and there are some compensations http://goo.gl/FHsuoT

    Nah! A wet Thursday in Leicester for me. And a careful examination of Jacks eve of poll super-ARSE.

    I missed 2010 as I was on a visit to Africa, and postal voted. I missed all the coalition negotiations. Not this time around.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,717
    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    There are still tropical islands without internet access ? Where?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siargao

    GPRS from a cell phone on a good day. Which is an improvement on the first time I visited 15 years ago where there was one land line telephone on the island and you had to queue to make your call!
    If there was no Internet connection I wouldn't go. Last month I went through the Channel Tunnel and found that I had a connection all the way. What's incredible is how much coverage has expanded and now you don't even need to worry about roaming charges. With 4G becoming much more widely available you don't need to be hunting for a WiFi connection
    Welcome to the third world :) Its a 40 minute flight from where I live and we have relatives there so its not just a holiday break, and there are some compensations http://goo.gl/FHsuoT

    In the part of Anglesy, where my bro-in-law has a holiday home the internet seems inaccessible.
    Mobile phone, at least via Vodafone and O2 is dreadful.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Indigo said:

    I am wondering how many voters don't really have a view on politics at all, either because they are not interested, or because they believe they are all as bad as each other, and by extension will decide their vote by a general impression of "prime-ministerial-ness" which might benefit Cameron more than his deserves on the day.

    [snip]

    There were studies a few years ago showing that appearances matter, so that, for instance, Australian schoolchildren could forecast American election results from looking at photographs of the candidates (sorry if I've misremembered any crucial details). This, filtered through expensive political consultants, may explain why Cameron, Clegg and Miliband all dress the same way: dark blue jumper over a light blue shirt.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/32190054
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,947

    Indigo said:

    Nearly through Easter and the polls should shakedown over the next week. I really don't know what to make of this election. Whenever I think the tories should pull away I have nagging doubts. The budget blew it for me but I've misjudged the tories a lot. Its just, will people really favour austerity over chilling out? I'm not so sure. Last time the tories went to the country with a fantastic economic competence record and 'steady-as-she-goes' message they got taken to the cleaners by labour. Then there's the whole 'tory toff' problem which is gonna lose them some support + ukip. Against that is the LD fall in E&W. And Miliband is no Blair.

    Don't know. Really don't know.

    The Tory vote is pretty much what it was in 2010, that is to say, not enough. The problem largely appears to be, in effect, that the NOTA vote has moved from the LDs to the kippers. The LDs having a number of closely held seats could use that vote to take 40-50 seats, the kippers being widely spread and thin on the ground in any one place largely won't.

    A little more political nous, and a little less grandstanding from a more able leadership might have completed a drift toward the centre without losing quite so many on the right, which would have put them on course for a majority.
    You have to have faith: remember, David Cameron is the Lamb of God!

    ...and the voters are armed with mint sauce.....
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Postal voting could make polls less accurate if respondents have a late change of mind and tell the pollster they voted differently or of regret.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,947

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    There are still tropical islands without internet access ? Where?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siargao

    GPRS from a cell phone on a good day. Which is an improvement on the first time I visited 15 years ago where there was one land line telephone on the island and you had to queue to make your call!
    If there was no Internet connection I wouldn't go. Last month I went through the Channel Tunnel and found that I had a connection all the way. What's incredible is how much coverage has expanded and now you don't even need to worry about roaming charges. With 4G becoming much more widely available you don't need to be hunting for a WiFi connection
    Welcome to the third world :) Its a 40 minute flight from where I live and we have relatives there so its not just a holiday break, and there are some compensations http://goo.gl/FHsuoT

    In the part of Anglesy, where my bro-in-law has a holiday home the internet seems inaccessible.
    Mobile phone, at least via Vodafone and O2 is dreadful.
    That is because Anglesey is still in 1952....

    But I did see Black Lark on Anglesey. Yay!

    But dipped the Catbird. Boo.....

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,947
    "So if there is a late change in the political mood, like there was in 1992, it won’t impact on postal voters who’ve returned their ballots."

    Not sure that's right. The change in the mood was when people had to put a cross in the box for Prime Minister Kinnock. "Nah....just can't do it."

    Would have been the same crunch point whether postal or polling station.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,947
    edited April 2015
    JackW said:

    Well, well .... many PBers will have woken up this morning with a huge lump ....

    No, not in your throat or next to you in bed ....

    But your pension pot !!

    The big question for PB will be what OGH will spend his pension pot on. The betting from Lad-Hills presently is :

    1. A decade supply of Chanel No 666 Hair Tonic Pour Homme - 6/4 fav
    2. £20K donation to Vince Cable in Twickenham - 5/1
    3. £100K investment for a 2% stake in my ARSE - 8/1
    4. 51% share of the Bedford Sandal Co Ltd - 10/1
    5. £1M trust fund for son Robert - 100/1

    Huzzah for Pensions Minister Steve Webb and the Coalition. :smile:

    For you Jack: LadyW's shoe collection 1/20.......

  • "So if there is a late change in the political mood, like there was in 1992, it won’t impact on postal voters who’ve returned their ballots."

    Not sure that's right. The change in the mood was when people had to put a cross in the box for Prime Minister Kinnock. "Nah....just can't do it."

    Would have been the same crunch point whether postal or polling station.

    My £60 with Bill 'ill (and, by extension, OGH's share of the winnings) depends on it.

  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    Have Labour justified the numbers they keep bandying about (families are £1,100 a year worse off on average)? I fear the key word is "average" with big numbers such as the total increase in VAT income averaged across the population when it will be the people who spend the most that will be affected.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,947
    Millsy said:

    Have Labour justified the numbers they keep bandying about (families are £1,100 a year worse off on average)? I fear the key word is "average" with big numbers such as the total increase in VAT income averaged across the population when it will be the people who spend the most that will be affected.

    Yeah, but don't let bankers buying a new Porsche get in the way of a straight narrative.

    Er, lie....

  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Nick Clegg says George Osborne is a very dangerous man.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/06/nick-clegg-george-osborne-is-a-very-dangerous-man

    Well I suppose he has seen him close up in the quad, so we should take his word .
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,947
    Anyway, a few more thousand leaflets need delivering around Torbay, on a beautiful day in the English Riviera. Toodles....
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,980
    edited April 2015
    The challengers debate should be fun next week. A lefty love-in with a grinning Farage collecting Cammeron's votes from the other side.

    Unless Michael Green can organize a programme called 'one careful owner'on another channel it's difficult to see how Cameron's going to come out of this undamaged. If there's a silver lining it's that the Libs might come out of it even worse
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Millsy said:

    Have Labour justified the numbers they keep bandying about (families are £1,100 a year worse off on average)? I fear the key word is "average" with big numbers such as the total increase in VAT income averaged across the population when it will be the people who spend the most that will be affected.

    The average voter will know whether his or her family is better or worse off, so can vote accordingly, regardless of whether Labour or Conservative "average" tractor stats are correct.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    Indigo said:

    Nearly through Easter and the polls should shakedown over the next week. I really don't know what to make of this election. Whenever I think the tories should pull away I have nagging doubts. The budget blew it for me but I've misjudged the tories a lot. Its just, will people really favour austerity over chilling out? I'm not so sure. Last time the tories went to the country with a fantastic economic competence record and 'steady-as-she-goes' message they got taken to the cleaners by labour. Then there's the whole 'tory toff' problem which is gonna lose them some support + ukip. Against that is the LD fall in E&W. And Miliband is no Blair.

    Don't know. Really don't know.

    The Tory vote is pretty much what it was in 2010, that is to say, not enough. The problem largely appears to be, in effect, that the NOTA vote has moved from the LDs to the kippers. The LDs having a number of closely held seats could use that vote to take 40-50 seats, the kippers being widely spread and thin on the ground in any one place largely won't.

    A little more political nous, and a little less grandstanding from a more able leadership might have completed a drift toward the centre without losing quite so many on the right, which would have put them on course for a majority.
    You have to have faith: remember, David Cameron is the Lamb of God!

    As a Metal Head, Cameron != Lamb of God...

    On topic,

    Does anybody really know if the early postal voting did/does firm up the polls?
    What has been the impact at the last few GE/Local elections?



  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Good morning all and as Thursday is the deadline for candidate nominations, hopefully I will have voted next week. What I will find interesting is whether the telephone pollsters who now generally all give the Tories the lead are more accurate than the online pollsters who are still recording regular Labour leads.

    As older voters vote, tend to be Tory and make up the bulk of postal voters, in some seats the election could virtually be over before polling day arrives and therefore events will have little or no relevance.

    As younger voters tend to support Labour or the Greens, are less likely to vote and it seems in a great many cases are not actually registered to vote, will we look back on Labour vote shares in the polls and realise we should have deducted 2-3% to get close to the actual numbers?

    Interesting 4 weeks ahead for we political anoraks.

    I wonder if Michael Ashcroft will be revisiting Thanet South. The media this weekend has been entirely negative about Nigel Farage and for many voters, the prospect of ending his career (as with Clegg in Sheffield) must be an attractive prospect.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    There are still tropical islands without internet access ? Where?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siargao

    GPRS from a cell phone on a good day. Which is an improvement on the first time I visited 15 years ago where there was one land line telephone on the island and you had to queue to make your call!
    If there was no Internet connection I wouldn't go. Last month I went through the Channel Tunnel and found that I had a connection all the way. What's incredible is how much coverage has expanded and now you don't even need to worry about roaming charges. With 4G becoming much more widely available you don't need to be hunting for a WiFi connection
    Welcome to the third world :) Its a 40 minute flight from where I live and we have relatives there so its not just a holiday break, and there are some compensations http://goo.gl/FHsuoT

    In the part of Anglesy, where my bro-in-law has a holiday home the internet seems inaccessible.
    Mobile phone, at least via Vodafone and O2 is dreadful.
    You will find that situation in many parts of Wales - they are called Not-Spots. A lot of shilly-shallying between BT, Mobile operators and the Welsh Gov is delaying progress.

    On the west coast, Orange is often the best.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    edited April 2015
    Roger said:

    The challengers debate should be fun next week. A lefty love-in with a grinning Farage collecting Cammeron's votes from the other side.

    Unless Michael Green can organize a programme called 'one careful owner'on another channel it's difficult to see how Cameron's going to come out of this undamaged. If there's a silver lining it's that the Libs might come out of it even worse

    I'd be surprised if the polls shift by even a fraction of 1% between Lab/Con after the debate.
    The smaller parties may get a small boost at the equal expense of the main 2, but I doubt even that (barring some complete howler by Ed - Surely the Farage effect is already priced in).

  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Roger said:

    The challengers debate should be fun next week. A lefty love-in with a grinning Farage collecting Cammeron's votes from the other side.

    Unless Michael Green can organize a programme called 'one careful owner'on another channel it's difficult to see how Cameron's going to come out of this undamaged. If there's a silver lining it's that the Libs might come out of it even worse

    There's only going to be one definite loser in the Challenger Debate.

    Ed Miliband will be ripped apart.

    Farage could join him but if he's smart and plays along, says as little controversial things as possible and basically behaves he can avoid drawing attention from Sturgeon and ending up buried as bad as Miliband.

    Who's chairing it? Miliband could end up with his "Help me Rona!" moment.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    Dair said:

    Roger said:

    The challengers debate should be fun next week. A lefty love-in with a grinning Farage collecting Cammeron's votes from the other side.

    Unless Michael Green can organize a programme called 'one careful owner'on another channel it's difficult to see how Cameron's going to come out of this undamaged. If there's a silver lining it's that the Libs might come out of it even worse

    There's only going to be one definite loser in the Challenger Debate.

    Ed Miliband will be ripped apart.

    Farage could join him but if he's smart and plays along, says as little controversial things as possible and basically behaves he can avoid drawing attention from Sturgeon and ending up buried as bad as Miliband.

    Who's chairing it? Miliband could end up with his "Help me Rona!" moment.
    That would be fun, but I'm not expecting anything so interesting.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Re Cameron and the lamb, didn't the Mirror run a story of PM lets two lambs drown...as he saved a third.

    However, this is a version of Margaret Thatcher and the calf.

    http://tinyurl.com/p4exfe6
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,027
    I can't help feeling that the vast bulk of those who postal vote early were never going to change their minds anyway. And they were probably already going to vote.

    If that is right then the campaign goes on after the feckless, the undecided, the don't really knows and the can I be bothered. On such mighty platforms is democracy built. Don'tcha love it?
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900

    Millsy said:

    Have Labour justified the numbers they keep bandying about (families are £1,100 a year worse off on average)? I fear the key word is "average" with big numbers such as the total increase in VAT income averaged across the population when it will be the people who spend the most that will be affected.

    The average voter will know whether his or her family is better or worse off, so can vote accordingly, regardless of whether Labour or Conservative "average" tractor stats are correct.
    Yep this is true, but gullible people are easily led. All parties are selective in the numbers they use but to my mind Labour's campaign so far is utterly depressing and misleading, not to mention negative in most cases. Every policy statement they utter is a contorted simplification of the actual policy, which I can understand because the real policy is normally worthless.

    Oh well, the more desperate they get the more confident I am that the Tories will prevail.
  • Easterross [8.18] It is on precisely those differential turnout considerations that my arrangement with Bill 'ill, to say nothing of CCHQ planning, is based. I am however very disappointed in the Greens who aren't taking the votes from Labour I need them to.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Dair said:

    Roger said:

    The challengers debate should be fun next week. A lefty love-in with a grinning Farage collecting Cammeron's votes from the other side.

    Unless Michael Green can organize a programme called 'one careful owner'on another channel it's difficult to see how Cameron's going to come out of this undamaged. If there's a silver lining it's that the Libs might come out of it even worse

    There's only going to be one definite loser in the Challenger Debate.

    Ed Miliband will be ripped apart.

    Farage could join him but if he's smart and plays along, says as little controversial things as possible and basically behaves he can avoid drawing attention from Sturgeon and ending up buried as bad as Miliband.

    Who's chairing it? Miliband could end up with his "Help me Rona!" moment.
    Will anyone be watching ?

    It will be like watching a Europa league quarter final with no English involvement on ITV 4.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,980
    Dair

    "Ed Miliband will be ripped apart."

    I'd be very surprised if an hour of Prime time television will lose Ed any votes! I've done some ads for some pretty ropey products but I can't remember ever hearing that sales went down!
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Dair said:

    Roger said:

    The challengers debate should be fun next week. A lefty love-in with a grinning Farage collecting Cammeron's votes from the other side.

    Unless Michael Green can organize a programme called 'one careful owner'on another channel it's difficult to see how Cameron's going to come out of this undamaged. If there's a silver lining it's that the Libs might come out of it even worse

    There's only going to be one definite loser in the Challenger Debate.

    Ed Miliband will be ripped apart.

    Farage could join him but if he's smart and plays along, says as little controversial things as possible and basically behaves he can avoid drawing attention from Sturgeon and ending up buried as bad as Miliband.

    Who's chairing it? Miliband could end up with his "Help me Rona!" moment.
    I think we can take it as read that CyberNats will be live-tweeting Sturgeon's evisceration of Ed, pretty much regardless of what actually happens.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Millsy said:

    Have Labour justified the numbers they keep bandying about (families are £1,100 a year worse off on average)? I fear the key word is "average" with big numbers such as the total increase in VAT income averaged across the population when it will be the people who spend the most that will be affected.

    Labour's VAT figures are complete nonsense - spending based on that of a 2 kitchen mansion household, rather than an average family.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Yorkcity said:

    Dair said:

    Roger said:

    The challengers debate should be fun next week. A lefty love-in with a grinning Farage collecting Cammeron's votes from the other side.

    Unless Michael Green can organize a programme called 'one careful owner'on another channel it's difficult to see how Cameron's going to come out of this undamaged. If there's a silver lining it's that the Libs might come out of it even worse

    There's only going to be one definite loser in the Challenger Debate.

    Ed Miliband will be ripped apart.

    Farage could join him but if he's smart and plays along, says as little controversial things as possible and basically behaves he can avoid drawing attention from Sturgeon and ending up buried as bad as Miliband.

    Who's chairing it? Miliband could end up with his "Help me Rona!" moment.
    Will anyone be watching ?

    It will be like watching a Europa league quarter final with no English involvement on ITV 4.
    It's on BBC which will help. QT on very late still gets 2.5m a week. There will be hype and there will be a lot of people waiting to see if Miliband does indeed get mugged.

    I'd expect it to rate between 5.5m and 6.0m.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Good morning, everyone.

    I dislike this widespread postal voting. If someone has a medical or other valid reason (being in the army and posted overseas, for example) then fair enough, otherwise they should just go vote in person.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Regarding the remaining debates, will anyone actually watch them? 2 million fewer watched last week's debate compared to 2010. I doubt more than a handful of floating voters will watch the Also-rans debate and right now my expectation is that Nicola Sturgeon will "suck in" Miliband and spit out the pieces. The dynamic will also be different as it will be 3 women v 2 men.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Roger said:

    Dair

    "Ed Miliband will be ripped apart."

    I'd be very surprised if an hour of Prime time television will lose Ed any votes! I've done some ads for some pretty ropey products but I can't remember ever hearing that sales went down!

    Roger well even you could not sell the Labour brand to Dair or Millsy in any shape or form.
    If they are true blue .
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,378
    Roger said:

    Dair

    "Ed Miliband will be ripped apart."

    I'd be very surprised if an hour of Prime time television will lose Ed any votes! I've done some ads for some pretty ropey products but I can't remember ever hearing that sales went down!

    It's a zero-sum game (unless, of course, the voters abstain). And your ads were presumably supposed to increase sales, not leave them as they were ...?

  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Roger said:

    Dair

    "Ed Miliband will be ripped apart."

    I'd be very surprised if an hour of Prime time television will lose Ed any votes! I've done some ads for some pretty ropey products but I can't remember ever hearing that sales went down!

    I think I can see why so many on here are in awe of the powers of your predictions.

    The way you compare a structured, pre-recorded, focus-grouped and tested advert is absolutely the same as an uncontrolled, live, unpredictable and unrehearsed debate.

    Truly the insight gained on your thought process is wonderous.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    Dair said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Dair said:

    Roger said:

    The challengers debate should be fun next week. A lefty love-in with a grinning Farage collecting Cammeron's votes from the other side.

    Unless Michael Green can organize a programme called 'one careful owner'on another channel it's difficult to see how Cameron's going to come out of this undamaged. If there's a silver lining it's that the Libs might come out of it even worse

    There's only going to be one definite loser in the Challenger Debate.

    Ed Miliband will be ripped apart.

    Farage could join him but if he's smart and plays along, says as little controversial things as possible and basically behaves he can avoid drawing attention from Sturgeon and ending up buried as bad as Miliband.

    Who's chairing it? Miliband could end up with his "Help me Rona!" moment.
    Will anyone be watching ?

    It will be like watching a Europa league quarter final with no English involvement on ITV 4.
    It's on BBC which will help. QT on very late still gets 2.5m a week. There will be hype and there will be a lot of people waiting to see if Miliband does indeed get mugged.

    I'd expect it to rate between 5.5m and 6.0m.
    Those may well be the number of viewers, but will anybody be actually watching?
    ;-)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,027
    Sturgeon-v-Miliband-v-Farage is alien-v-Predator+ for me. I want them all to lose.

    Curiously enough I have never felt the need to watch the film either.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Good morning, everyone.

    I dislike this widespread postal voting. If someone has a medical or other valid reason (being in the army and posted overseas, for example) then fair enough, otherwise they should just go vote in person.

    Precisely! .........and Good Morning all.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Just learned Charles Kennedy's father Ian has died. He was hugely popular in the Lochaber part of his son's constituency.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    Regarding the remaining debates, will anyone actually watch them? 2 million fewer watched last week's debate compared to 2010. I doubt more than a handful of floating voters will watch the Also-rans debate and right now my expectation is that Nicola Sturgeon will "suck in" Miliband and spit out the pieces. The dynamic will also be different as it will be 3 women v 2 men.

    My wife already thinks that Ed is both patronising and disingenuous (amongst other things), I worry that a debate against women may not work to his advantage.

    she would be voting Labour, but isn't because she hates the idea of Ed as PM.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Regarding the remaining debates, will anyone actually watch them? 2 million fewer watched last week's debate compared to 2010. I doubt more than a handful of floating voters will watch the Also-rans debate and right now my expectation is that Nicola Sturgeon will "suck in" Miliband and spit out the pieces. The dynamic will also be different as it will be 3 women v 2 men.

    The Wiki entry for the first debate does not mention it being simulcasted on BBC News and Sky News in 2010. It was this year. I watched on BBC News. The third debate on BBC1 was watched by 7.7m on the BBC and another 1m on BBC and Sky News channels.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Somewhat interesting piece on debating extremism in schools [or not...]:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-32162012

    As an aside, I lecturer at university [I wasn't taking his lectures at this point] during the 2005 Danish cartoon controversy reportedly went off on one about how evil the Danish cartoons were. So, I'd strongly suspect this'll be an issue at universities as well as schools.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    edited April 2015
    Dair said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Dair said:

    Roger said:

    The challengers debate should be fun next week. A lefty love-in with a grinning Farage collecting Cammeron's votes from the other side.

    Unless Michael Green can organize a programme called 'one careful owner'on another channel it's difficult to see how Cameron's going to come out of this undamaged. If there's a silver lining it's that the Libs might come out of it even worse

    There's only going to be one definite loser in the Challenger Debate.

    Ed Miliband will be ripped apart.

    Farage could join him but if he's smart and plays along, says as little controversial things as possible and basically behaves he can avoid drawing attention from Sturgeon and ending up buried as bad as Miliband.

    Who's chairing it? Miliband could end up with his "Help me Rona!" moment.
    Will anyone be watching ?

    It will be like watching a Europa league quarter final with no English involvement on ITV 4.
    It's on BBC which will help. QT on very late still gets 2.5m a week. There will be hype and there will be a lot of people waiting to see if Miliband does indeed get mugged.

    I'd expect it to rate between 5.5m and 6.0m.
    Seems obvious he will get faraged from the right sturgeoned from left.
    However at least he has got into the ring, and he is the only one of the leaders , who can be PM, and at 10/11 that is definite possibility.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    1) the next debate will be the biggest political event of its day.

    2) Ed Miliband will be aware of the dangers and presumably will be planning for them. He has no competition for the sensible statesman role.

    3) as Roger says, any publicity is good publicity. He is unlikely to do himself too much harm in the English battleground; he is very likely to exceed expectations.

    4) Scotland is a different matter entirely. He may well drive the final nail into the coffins of many Scottish Labour MPs. But if he thinks they're goners already, that's a price worth paying for the chance of winning votes in England.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Regarding the remaining debates, will anyone actually watch them? 2 million fewer watched last week's debate compared to 2010. I doubt more than a handful of floating voters will watch the Also-rans debate and right now my expectation is that Nicola Sturgeon will "suck in" Miliband and spit out the pieces. The dynamic will also be different as it will be 3 women v 2 men.

    My wife already thinks that Ed is both patronising and disingenuous (amongst other things), I worry that a debate against women may not work to his advantage.

    she would be voting Labour, but isn't because she hates the idea of Ed as PM.
    Tell her it's fine as he will be PM in name only and firmly in Nicola's pocket.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    What does Ed done to p*ss of the teaching unions... Christine Blower working hard to get the Tory and kipper vote out.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11517177/Promote-gay-relationships-as-positive-in-school-teachers-say.html
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Mr. Barber, Miliband may try and focus on Farage [Bennett's no real threat, Wood may be but only in a very small area].

    How he gets on versus Sturgeon will be very interesting to see.

    Mr. Easterross, sad news. Is Kennedy standing for election again?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    If PB do have an election party, it will be an all nighter:

    Most constituencies are expected to declare between 03:00 & 05:00 on results night. Find yours http://t.co/bJ7sNnszGV pic.twitter.com/v3I3N3vFJh

    — Britain Elects (@britainelects) April 5, 2015
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,717
    Financier said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    There are still tropical islands without internet access ? Where?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siargao

    GPRS from a cell phone on a good day. Which is an improvement on the first time I visited 15 years ago where there was one land line telephone on the island and you had to queue to make your call!
    If there was no Internet connection I wouldn't go. Last month I went through the Channel Tunnel and found that I had a connection all the way. What's incredible is how much coverage has expanded and now you don't even need to worry about roaming charges. With 4G becoming much more widely available you don't need to be hunting for a WiFi connection
    Welcome to the third world :) Its a 40 minute flight from where I live and we have relatives there so its not just a holiday break, and there are some compensations http://goo.gl/FHsuoT

    In the part of Anglesy, where my bro-in-law has a holiday home the internet seems inaccessible.
    Mobile phone, at least via Vodafone and O2 is dreadful.
    You will find that situation in many parts of Wales - they are called Not-Spots. A lot of shilly-shallying between BT, Mobile operators and the Welsh Gov is delaying progress.

    On the west coast, Orange is often the best.
    Thanks; might try an Orange dongle for the laptop
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    In Portstewart I often get a stronger mobile signal from Donegal and find myself unintentionally internationally roaming, which is very annoying.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Mr. K, not sure how I'll follow results. More comfortable to watch on TV, but coverage will be far better here.

    The agony of choice! The Romans never had to grapple with such decisions.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Yorkcity said:

    Nick Clegg says George Osborne is a very dangerous man.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/06/nick-clegg-george-osborne-is-a-very-dangerous-man

    Well I suppose he has seen him close up in the quad, so we should take his word .

    Great message

    I have spent 5 years in government with a "dangerous man" just so I can get a ministerial salary a seat at cabinet and a ministerial car. That will cost him even more votes in Shefield Hallam. It surprises me they are not putting forward how well they have actually done in a coalition.

    I can though see how the left think he's a "dangerous man" after all creating that many jobs and putting the people in full time pay rather than low pay sink estates and dole erodes the left wing voting base as people realise they can then aspire and achieve better things.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,313
    antifrank said:

    In Portstewart I often get a stronger mobile signal from Donegal and find myself unintentionally internationally roaming, which is very annoying.

    You need 3, Ireland is one of those countries included in your plan.

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Yorkcity said:

    Dair said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Dair said:

    Roger said:

    The challengers debate should be fun next week. A lefty love-in with a grinning Farage collecting Cammeron's votes from the other side.

    Unless Michael Green can organize a programme called 'one careful owner'on another channel it's difficult to see how Cameron's going to come out of this undamaged. If there's a silver lining it's that the Libs might come out of it even worse

    There's only going to be one definite loser in the Challenger Debate.

    Ed Miliband will be ripped apart.

    Farage could join him but if he's smart and plays along, says as little controversial things as possible and basically behaves he can avoid drawing attention from Sturgeon and ending up buried as bad as Miliband.

    Who's chairing it? Miliband could end up with his "Help me Rona!" moment.
    Will anyone be watching ?

    It will be like watching a Europa league quarter final with no English involvement on ITV 4.
    It's on BBC which will help. QT on very late still gets 2.5m a week. There will be hype and there will be a lot of people waiting to see if Miliband does indeed get mugged.

    I'd expect it to rate between 5.5m and 6.0m.
    Seems obvious he will get faraged from the right sturgeoned from left.
    However at least he has got into the ring, and he is the only one of the leaders , who can be PM, and at 10/11 that is definite possibility.
    The debate is on the BBC, so Miliband will be allowed free reign to prattle on as he see's fit, regardless of the questioning, and other participants.
  • So little time left for postal votes, yet no manifestos are out. Why are the main parties so stupid?
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    Mr. Barber, Miliband may try and focus on Farage [Bennett's no real threat, Wood may be but only in a very small area].

    How he gets on versus Sturgeon will be very interesting to see.

    Mr. Easterross, sad news. Is Kennedy standing for election again?

    He may well try to focus on the only other male in the room; that won't look dismissive or patronising at all.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    What Zero Hours can actually mean:

    AlterAlterMedia retweeted
    Barnaby Spen ‏@Barnabyspeak Apr 1
    nice girl in my local turns up at 7 for work, told to go home 'cos they're not busy. Cost her £7.00 to get there and back. That zero hours
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Yorkcity said:

    Dair said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Dair said:

    Roger said:

    The challengers debate should be fun next week. A lefty love-in with a grinning Farage collecting Cammeron's votes from the other side.

    Unless Michael Green can organize a programme called 'one careful owner'on another channel it's difficult to see how Cameron's going to come out of this undamaged. If there's a silver lining it's that the Libs might come out of it even worse

    There's only going to be one definite loser in the Challenger Debate.

    Ed Miliband will be ripped apart.

    Farage could join him but if he's smart and plays along, says as little controversial things as possible and basically behaves he can avoid drawing attention from Sturgeon and ending up buried as bad as Miliband.

    Who's chairing it? Miliband could end up with his "Help me Rona!" moment.
    Will anyone be watching ?

    It will be like watching a Europa league quarter final with no English involvement on ITV 4.
    It's on BBC which will help. QT on very late still gets 2.5m a week. There will be hype and there will be a lot of people waiting to see if Miliband does indeed get mugged.

    I'd expect it to rate between 5.5m and 6.0m.
    Seems obvious he will get faraged from the right sturgeoned from left.
    However at least he has got into the ring, and he is the only one of the leaders , who can be PM, and at 10/11 that is definite possibility.
    The debate is on the BBC, so Miliband will be allowed free reign to prattle on as he see's fit, regardless of the questioning, and other participants.
    No, not free reign.

    None of the participants will be allowed to address Tory or Liberal policy as they do not have the Right to Reply.

    Dem's the rules.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited April 2015

    Mr. K, not sure how I'll follow results. More comfortable to watch on TV, but coverage will be far better here.

    The agony of choice! The Romans never had to grapple with such decisions.

    No agony for me. I prefer the comfort of home in this sort of situation. Atmosphere and excitement is all very well if one can stay awake all night. I can't, so I shalln't.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,568
    DavidL said:

    I can't help feeling that the vast bulk of those who postal vote early were never going to change their minds anyway. And they were probably already going to vote.

    If that is right then the campaign goes on after the feckless, the undecided, the don't really knows and the can I be bothered. On such mighty platforms is democracy built. Don'tcha love it?

    You'd think so, and on average they are more committed, but it's not quite true. Around 20% of postal voters never bother at all - it's a mystery why they ever took the trouble to apply. Others simply are very unwell or away, so no more settled than the average. Turnout is typically 10-15 points higher, though.

    <

    Does anybody really know if the early postal voting did/does firm up the polls?
    What has been the impact at the last few GE/Local elections?

    The polls are usually pretty stable during elections - the Cleggasm was the big exception. Whether that's a PV effect, who knows. What elections produce is a general shift from "I suppose I might vote X" to "Oh all right then" or "I don't think I'll bother". I can count on two hands the number of people I've ever met who said "After seeing that debate/PPB I changed my mind altogether".

    I think the "Opposition debate" next week will modestly help everyone who's in it - the previous debates seem to have improved the view of nearly all participants.



  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,717

    antifrank said:

    In Portstewart I often get a stronger mobile signal from Donegal and find myself unintentionally internationally roaming, which is very annoying.

    You need 3, Ireland is one of those countries included in your plan.

    One thing that aggravates me is that the Channel Islands count as "overseas" which means even a text is expensive.
    And I've found myself in France along the S Coast.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,313

    Good morning, everyone.

    I dislike this widespread postal voting. If someone has a medical or other valid reason (being in the army and posted overseas, for example) then fair enough, otherwise they should just go vote in person.

    Indeed, although I think being out of the country on holiday or business is fair enough. Early voting in person, like they have in the USA, would be preferable but it would mean local council staff having to do some work.

    I find it risible that we talk about Labour having lower turnout among its supporters. Anyone who can't be arsed to go and vote once every five years can't be counted as a supporter, in my view. Most of them live in city constituencies so the polling station really will be just round the corner.

  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    MikeK said:

    What Zero Hours can actually mean:

    AlterAlterMedia retweeted
    Barnaby Spen ‏@Barnabyspeak Apr 1
    nice girl in my local turns up at 7 for work, told to go home 'cos they're not busy. Cost her £7.00 to get there and back. That zero hours

    And whilst I do feel sorry for the lass, I'm wondering why any of this is news.

    When I was a young shaver, I too had casual work down at a "local". Nothing so grand sounding as a contract (zero hours or otherwise). I would often be told to go home if the place was quiet. I would often be out of pocket for the day.

  • antifrank said:

    In Portstewart I often get a stronger mobile signal from Donegal and find myself unintentionally internationally roaming, which is very annoying.

    You're in Portstewart? Wonderful place. I was there last year. Real happening sort of place - and Portrush, and Londonderry, where you must do the walk of the city walls.

    Thought about buying a place there but in the end opted for something nearer home, but it was a definite maybe for a while.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    MikeK said:

    What Zero Hours can actually mean:

    AlterAlterMedia retweeted
    Barnaby Spen ‏@Barnabyspeak Apr 1
    nice girl in my local turns up at 7 for work, told to go home 'cos they're not busy. Cost her £7.00 to get there and back. That zero hours

    The problem there sounds like an absolute tit of a employer lacking either basic consideration or elementary telephone-using skills. It's a fool's errand trying to anticipate and legislate against all the possible ways a wanker employer can act like a wanker - what the government should be doing instead is paying a reasonable level of unemployment benefit without a lot of judgemental micro-management so that the employee isn't scared to tell them where to stick their job.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    antifrank said:

    In Portstewart I often get a stronger mobile signal from Donegal and find myself unintentionally internationally roaming, which is very annoying.

    You're in Portstewart? Wonderful place. I was there last year. Real happening sort of place - and Portrush, and Londonderry, where you must do the walk of the city walls.

    Thought about buying a place there but in the end opted for something nearer home, but it was a definite maybe for a while.
    Right now I'm in Hungary. But I'm in Portstewart about once every two months, most recently two weeks ago. The main disadvantage of the place is the weather. Facing north on the Atlantic on the western side of the British Isles is asking for trouble.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    There is nothing EdM or any other Labour figure can do to prevent Labour being massacred in Scotland. So I doubt Ed will bother too much about serious debate with Sturgeon. That said, if she attacks him constantly it will show English voters that the SNP and Labour are not hand in glove.

    The really interesting exchanges for most voters will be Ed v Nigel. Ed is clearly vulnerable on immigration, but does have the opportunity to highlight Nigel's Thatcherism. That may give traditional Labour voters thinking about UKIP pause for thought, while it will appeal to UKIP-inclined Tories: a tasty double whammy for Ed if he can pull it off. If, of course, being the operative word.

    Having done OK against Paxman and the 7-way debate Ed is probably due a disaster. And we know that whatever happens the Sun, Express, Mail, Telegraph and Times headlines are already written.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,980
    Dair

    "I think I can see why so many on here are in awe of the powers of your predictions."

    I've always thought it was the natural cynicism of the Scots which produced some of the best comics of the last half century.

    Don't you find this messianic belief in your leaders a little embarrassing and un Scottish?

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,313

    antifrank said:

    In Portstewart I often get a stronger mobile signal from Donegal and find myself unintentionally internationally roaming, which is very annoying.

    You need 3, Ireland is one of those countries included in your plan.

    One thing that aggravates me is that the Channel Islands count as "overseas" which means even a text is expensive.
    And I've found myself in France along the S Coast.
    France is free on 3 as well. Don't know if you get a good French signal in the CI though.My last couple of holidays in the EU I have just gone with the EU roaming charges, and use an app to limit my data usage to a few MB a day. If you need to make a call you can use Skype when you have WiFi. But then I make and receive relatively few calls and texts.

    Having said that I can't remember whether Jersey and Guernsey (which are foreign countries after all) are in the EU or EEA or not.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Although not really the context of the Cameron/Osborne "non-pledge", in general I find this fashion over the last few elections for ruling in/out changes to taxation levels and demanding pledges from others pretty rubbish. The fact is that if a tax exists then generally it has a purpose (beyond raising money). The balance of how much money is raised from different taxes and the behaviour the levels of various taxes encourages/discourages is a legitimate topic for debate, but the levers should always be left open to Govts/Chancellors to change that balance depending on the needs of the time, without being hamstrung by artificial pledges. If a party thinks a tax is fundamentally wrong then they should have a policy to abolish it, but you can't oppose a level of taxation on principle.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Dair said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Dair said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Dair said:

    Roger said:

    The challengers debate should be fun next week. A lefty love-in with a grinning Farage collecting Cammeron's votes from the other side.

    Unless Michael Green can organize a programme called 'one careful owner'on another channel it's difficult to see how Cameron's going to come out of this undamaged. If there's a silver lining it's that the Libs might come out of it even worse

    There's only going to be one definite loser in the Challenger Debate.

    Ed Miliband will be ripped apart.

    Farage could join him but if he's smart and plays along, says as little controversial things as possible and basically behaves he can avoid drawing attention from Sturgeon and ending up buried as bad as Miliband.

    Who's chairing it? Miliband could end up with his "Help me Rona!" moment.
    Will anyone be watching ?

    It will be like watching a Europa league quarter final with no English involvement on ITV 4.
    It's on BBC which will help. QT on very late still gets 2.5m a week. There will be hype and there will be a lot of people waiting to see if Miliband does indeed get mugged.

    I'd expect it to rate between 5.5m and 6.0m.
    Seems obvious he will get faraged from the right sturgeoned from left.
    However at least he has got into the ring, and he is the only one of the leaders , who can be PM, and at 10/11 that is definite possibility.
    The debate is on the BBC, so Miliband will be allowed free reign to prattle on as he see's fit, regardless of the questioning, and other participants.
    No, not free reign.

    None of the participants will be allowed to address Tory or Liberal policy as they do not have the Right to Reply.

    Dem's the rules.
    Really? I thought they were given the opportunity to appear at this debate.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,313

    Mr. K, not sure how I'll follow results. More comfortable to watch on TV, but coverage will be far better here.

    The agony of choice! The Romans never had to grapple with such decisions.

    Surely the answer is to stream the TV on your computer and have PB open in another window.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    MikeK said:

    What Zero Hours can actually mean:

    AlterAlterMedia retweeted
    Barnaby Spen ‏@Barnabyspeak Apr 1
    nice girl in my local turns up at 7 for work, told to go home 'cos they're not busy. Cost her £7.00 to get there and back. That zero hours

    The problem there sounds like an absolute tit of a employer lacking either basic consideration or elementary telephone-using skills. It's a fool's errand trying to anticipate and legislate against all the possible ways a wanker employer can act like a wanker - what the government should be doing instead is paying a reasonable level of unemployment benefit without a lot of judgemental micro-management so that the employee isn't scared to tell them where to stick their job.
    Great. Encourage people to lounge around on the taxpayers hard earned coin.

    Labour's beloved Benefit Culture.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    Regarding the remaining debates, will anyone actually watch them? 2 million fewer watched last week's debate compared to 2010. I doubt more than a handful of floating voters will watch the Also-rans debate and right now my expectation is that Nicola Sturgeon will "suck in" Miliband and spit out the pieces. The dynamic will also be different as it will be 3 women v 2 men.

    My wife already thinks that Ed is both patronising and disingenuous (amongst other things), I worry that a debate against women may not work to his advantage.

    she would be voting Labour, but isn't because she hates the idea of Ed as PM.
    A Scouse off licence entrepreneur recently of this parish always said that the person with a problem with women would lose. Last poll I saw a few weeks ago had Cameron more favoured by the woman vote than Milliband on this issue.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    In terms of expectations management one thing that will help Ed are loads of predictions he is going to be torn apart. The Times headline will surely please him.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    antifrank said:

    1) the next debate will be the biggest political event of its day.

    2) Ed Miliband will be aware of the dangers and presumably will be planning for them. He has no competition for the sensible statesman role.

    3) as Roger says, any publicity is good publicity. He is unlikely to do himself too much harm in the English battleground; he is very likely to exceed expectations.

    4) Scotland is a different matter entirely. He may well drive the final nail into the coffins of many Scottish Labour MPs. But if he thinks they're goners already, that's a price worth paying for the chance of winning votes in England.

    I think 4 is key, SLab is done, it is no more. Milliband should persue a strategy to sacrifice SLab to gain seats in England as that is where it counts.
  • PurseybearPurseybear Posts: 766

    Postal voting could make polls less accurate if respondents have a late change of mind and tell the pollster they voted differently or of regret.

    Am I right in thinking they're not allowed to ask how someone has actually voted?
This discussion has been closed.