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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » CON retains its TNS 1% lead, encouraging YouGov ratings new

SystemSystem Posts: 11,705
edited March 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » CON retains its TNS 1% lead, encouraging YouGov ratings news for Ed, and the CON spread lead moves up to 14

The LAB camp, meanwhile, will take some heart from the range of EdM findings featured above. The key thing here is the direction they are going. “Would he be up to the job of being PM?” – was 23 to 59 in February while the latest has that at 30 to 45. The recovery seems to be all coming from LAB voters who now back their man by 79% to 9.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    First!
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Betfair most seats - Cons back above 1.5
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    On the "Ed ratings" question - how have Cameron's moved over the same time frame? Could it simply be the effect of the approaching election - "Leader's ratings are improving" rather than "Ed's ratings are improving"?
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    I guess their voters now know they may as well make the best of a bad job. I doubt if the undecideds will be taking the same view.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    I’ve long taken the view that Ed's ratings amongst those who support the party had no where else to go but up.

    For some it's a resignation that they’re stuck with him now until GE2015, might as well support him. Others will simply not bother turning out on the night.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited March 2015
    "Has he been decisive or indecisive"

    Don't know 24

    hahaha... should've used "not sure" there!
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    ItwasriggedItwasrigged Posts: 154
    Eds ratings improving! What? Did they bribe those they were asking?
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Great news for Ed, only one in five labour voters don't think he's PM material.

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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    Another ordinary poll (TNS) for Labour. They need to be doing better for sure...

    Sunil - part ELBOW please?
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,895
    Afternoon all :)

    My first chance to comment for a few days. A solid opening to the campaign for the Conservatives with, as expected, some of the UKIP support "coming home" at the first whiff of electoral gunpowder.

    I wonder if the Conservative tactic is to seek to demoralise Labour early and then hope enough Labour voters stay at home to create an overall majority. We'll see..

    Thursday will be interesting as a spectacle though probably not terribly informative - the April 30th QT will be more so as minds will be concentrating.

    From a personal level I regard a Lab/SNP Government or a Conservative-led Government with the same joy as someone entrusting their crpown jewels to a psychopath with a rusty knife.

    In the acres of pointless partisan verbage currently on offer, this one stuck out like a turd in your crumble and custard:

    http://www.standard.co.uk/business/markets/hamish-mcrae-message-to-the-next-government--you-will-need-to-get-cleverer-10143839.html

    An excellent piece making, I think, two key points - neither the Conservatives nor Labour can be trusted on the economy and the two sets of economic policies aren't that far apart.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Car undergoing MOT as we speak :E - Will give a clear steer as to the betting bank...
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    edited March 2015
    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    Yep could well be in point. Also note that Ed is on the Telly 4 times in the run up to the GE.

    The opposition debate will be a pretty much free platform for Nigel I reckon though as Nicola will be firing all guns on Nick and particularly Ed.

    In fact Bennett's attacks will probably play tremendously well for both of them in that one.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I've seen increasing numbers of posts on other news forums saying "I want to vote UKIP, but I'll be voting Tory/Labour as they're the only serious option"

    This anecdata seems to be backed up by the slowly descending Kipper polling numbers over time.
    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    My first chance to comment for a few days. A solid opening to the campaign for the Conservatives with, as expected, some of the UKIP support "coming home" at the first whiff of electoral gunpowder.

    I wonder if the Conservative tactic is to seek to demoralise Labour early and then hope enough Labour voters stay at home to create an overall majority. We'll see..

    Thursday will be interesting as a spectacle though probably not terribly informative - the April 30th QT will be more so as minds will be concentrating.

    From a personal level I regard a Lab/SNP Government or a Conservative-led Government with the same joy as someone entrusting their crpown jewels to a psychopath with a rusty knife.

    In the acres of pointless partisan verbage currently on offer, this one stuck out like a turd in your crumble and custard:

    http://www.standard.co.uk/business/markets/hamish-mcrae-message-to-the-next-government--you-will-need-to-get-cleverer-10143839.html

    An excellent piece making, I think, two key points - neither the Conservatives nor Labour can be trusted on the economy and the two sets of economic policies aren't that far apart.

    Fortunately the voters are clear that the Conservatives are a safer pair of hands for the economy than anyone else. But it's always fun to hear from a thorough non-partisan with their pearls of wisdom. A few less lemons sucked might make it more convincing. :)
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    edited March 2015
    Plato said:

    I've seen increasing numbers of posts on other news forums saying "I want to vote UKIP, but I'll be voting Tory/Labour as they're the only serious option"

    These types are hilarious. Frit !

    The SNP lot seem to be showing far more backbone.

    Nigel needs a great performance to try and convince them to stick with him.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    I agree and expect UKIP to move up after Thursday. It's equally likely to be short-lived - remember Saturday's Milibounce.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I regularly assume LibDems are "a psychopath with a rusty knife"

    Not. The most absurd thing I've seen here in ages. And from a superior voting being who isn't *partisan*

    Absolutely.
    felix said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    My first chance to comment for a few days. A solid opening to the campaign for the Conservatives with, as expected, some of the UKIP support "coming home" at the first whiff of electoral gunpowder.

    I wonder if the Conservative tactic is to seek to demoralise Labour early and then hope enough Labour voters stay at home to create an overall majority. We'll see..

    Thursday will be interesting as a spectacle though probably not terribly informative - the April 30th QT will be more so as minds will be concentrating.

    From a personal level I regard a Lab/SNP Government or a Conservative-led Government with the same joy as someone entrusting their crpown jewels to a psychopath with a rusty knife.

    In the acres of pointless partisan verbage currently on offer, this one stuck out like a turd in your crumble and custard:

    http://www.standard.co.uk/business/markets/hamish-mcrae-message-to-the-next-government--you-will-need-to-get-cleverer-10143839.html

    An excellent piece making, I think, two key points - neither the Conservatives nor Labour can be trusted on the economy and the two sets of economic policies aren't that far apart.

    Fortunately the voters are clear that the Conservatives are a safer pair of hands for the economy than anyone else. But it's always fun to hear from a thorough non-partisan with their pearls of wisdom. A few less lemons sucked might make it more convincing. :)
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    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    FPT

    According to WiKi the Lords Prayer as it occurs in Matthew 6:9–13 contains the lines...

    Give us this day our daily bread,
    and forgive us our debts,
    as we also have forgiven our debtors.
    And lead us not into temptation,
    but deliver us from evil.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Pulpstar said:

    Plato said:

    I've seen increasing numbers of posts on other news forums saying "I want to vote UKIP, but I'll be voting Tory/Labour as they're the only serious option"

    These types are hilarious. Frit !

    The SNP lot seem to be showing far more backbone.

    Nigel needs a great performance to try and convince them to stick with him.
    An SNP vote is not going to be "wasted" anywhere. There's a chance they might not even come 3rd anywhere (anyone care to price that?)
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    New Chart. The race since 1st January...

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13331381/2015.PNG
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    edited March 2015
    felix said:

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    I agree and expect UKIP to move up after Thursday. It's equally likely to be short-lived - remember Saturday's Milibounce.
    Saturday's Milibounce explained the Cleggasm to me (Oversampling the interested). The thing is that one got an echo effect which reverberated to general polling for a bit whereas this one didn't.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    isam said:

    "Has he been decisive or indecisive"

    Don't know 24

    hahaha... should've used "not sure" there!

    On Japanese telly the other night they were doing thing where you could phone in or go online to give your opinion on a political thing. 8000 viewers went to the trouble of taking part to register the opinion that they weren't sure.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    felix said:

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    I agree and expect UKIP to move up after Thursday. It's equally likely to be short-lived - remember Saturday's Milibounce.
    Could well be short lived, if it happens. But amazing people aren't attributing these poll bounces etc for the big two to the Paxo exposure
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited March 2015
    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    You're right, but the more general VI uptick also precedes the TV programme. Despite Ed exceeding expectations it may have only served to further frame the election as being between EM & DC. Having it first was surely perfect for the Tories, even if DC could have done better on the night.
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    isam said:

    "Has he been decisive or indecisive"

    Don't know 24

    hahaha... should've used "not sure" there!

    On Japanese telly the other night they were doing thing where you could phone in or go online to give your opinion on a political thing. 8000 viewers went to the trouble of taking part to register the opinion that they weren't sure.
    At least they were not apathetic.
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    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Those ratings are far too soft at this stage of the cycle I'm afraid.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,895
    Plato said:

    I regularly assume LibDems are "a psychopath with a rusty knife"

    Not. The most absurd thing I've seen here in ages. And from a superior voting being who isn't *partisan*

    Absolutely.

    I make no bones about the fact I'm partisan - I'm a Liberal Democrat member and supporter and, to be honest, I now hold the Conservatives and Labour in equal contempt.

    Had Cameron maintained the "liberal conservative" he was or seemed to be in 2010 I'd be in a different place but we now face the fact IF the Conservatives win a majority next month of two years of endless wibbling about Europe followed by a contentious Referendum while we all count down to Cameron's departure.

    To be honest, between that and the bland meanderings of Miliband/Balls, I see very little difference.

    The partisans and Party members like yourself will protest ad nauseam and try to convince me that a vote for the other side will usher in eternal darkness (which it won't) while a vote for their side will usher in a new golden age (which it won't) but there's a lot of evidence people are unconvinced about anyone and everyone and that's something about which we should all be concerned.

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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    UKIP going down like the Lusitania [100th anniversary on election day!]
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13331381/UKIP.PNG
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    RodCrosby said:

    New Chart. The race since 1st January...

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13331381/2015.PNG

    How close did Kalman filtering do last time, also what is LN saying right now ?
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited March 2015
    Plato said:

    I've seen increasing numbers of posts on other news forums saying "I want to vote UKIP, but I'll be voting Tory/Labour as they're the only serious option"

    This anecdata seems to be backed up by the slowly descending Kipper polling numbers over time.

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    Perhaps.. one of the things that has convinced me to bet a lot on UKIP surprising people in this election is that people I know, and in my area that are voting UKIP, are the type who wouldn't dream of going on a news forum or a political debating one such as this***.. I don't know anyone who would and I would be mortified (and the butt of lots of jokes re nerdiness) if any one in my social circle knew I was a regular on here... when a mate rented a room off me last year I used to click on Betfair whenever he came into my office and I was commenting on PB in case he asked what I was doing

    People on polling panels etc are not regular people, I think few political obsessives realise this as they know so many people that are like them

    ***several have also said they are voting UKIP buit would say "don't know " if asked as they don't want the agg of explaining themselves/fighting accusations of racist/sexist etc
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    We often touch on the globalisation of trade/jobs on here - and thought these two bits of retail anecdata were revealing.

    I've bought in the last month two items from China via Amazon. The delivery date was a month hence - they both arrived within a week. One was a bunch of silk irises, the other a calligraphy pen. Hardly big ticket items at less than £15 each. But the quality/price/delivery timeframes are stunning.

    We really need to up our game to compete. Making silk flowers isn't exactly hard as a production task. I live down the road from what was Parker Pens. Are they still in business? I haven't seen one in years.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    BenM said:

    Those ratings are far too soft at this stage of the cycle I'm afraid.

    Ben, you seem to have gone from cheerleader to Eeyore in the last couple of years. Genuine inquiry: was there one thing in particular that prompted this or has it been more gradual?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,064
    stodge said:

    Plato said:

    I regularly assume LibDems are "a psychopath with a rusty knife"

    Not. The most absurd thing I've seen here in ages. And from a superior voting being who isn't *partisan*

    Absolutely.

    I make no bones about the fact I'm partisan - I'm a Liberal Democrat member and supporter and, to be honest, I now hold the Conservatives and Labour in equal contempt.

    Had Cameron maintained the "liberal conservative" he was or seemed to be in 2010 I'd be in a different place but we now face the fact IF the Conservatives win a majority next month of two years of endless wibbling about Europe followed by a contentious Referendum while we all count down to Cameron's departure.

    To be honest, between that and the bland meanderings of Miliband/Balls, I see very little difference.

    The partisans and Party members like yourself will protest ad nauseam and try to convince me that a vote for the other side will usher in eternal darkness (which it won't) while a vote for their side will usher in a new golden age (which it won't) but there's a lot of evidence people are unconvinced about anyone and everyone and that's something about which we should all be concerned.

    Mr Stodge, your postings are a breath of fresh air among some very rancid effusions.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    stodge said:

    Plato said:

    I regularly assume LibDems are "a psychopath with a rusty knife"

    Not. The most absurd thing I've seen here in ages. And from a superior voting being who isn't *partisan*

    Absolutely.

    I make no bones about the fact I'm partisan - I'm a Liberal Democrat member and supporter and, to be honest, I now hold the Conservatives and Labour in equal contempt.

    Had Cameron maintained the "liberal conservative" he was or seemed to be in 2010 I'd be in a different place but we now face the fact IF the Conservatives win a majority next month of two years of endless wibbling about Europe followed by a contentious Referendum while we all count down to Cameron's departure.

    To be honest, between that and the bland meanderings of Miliband/Balls, I see very little difference.

    The partisans and Party members like yourself will protest ad nauseam and try to convince me that a vote for the other side will usher in eternal darkness (which it won't) while a vote for their side will usher in a new golden age (which it won't) but there's a lot of evidence people are unconvinced about anyone and everyone and that's something about which we should all be concerned.

    The strongest evidence by far is that the electorate are unconvinced by the LDs. You seem to have forgotten the party's support for an EU referendum last time.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. 1983 (FPT), well, I am an atheist. My memory of the Lord's Prayer from school is a bit errant, but you should forgive me.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    You're right, but the more general VI uptick also precedes the TV programme. Despite Ed exceeding expectations it may have only served to further frame the election as being between EM & DC. Having it first was surely perfect for the Tories, even if DC could have done better on the night.
    My worry UKIP wise is that Farage isn't involved in the last QT thing.. outrageous in my opinion given the OFCOM ruling, but I guess that's the lot of an insurgent party
  • Options
    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    BenM said:

    Those ratings are far too soft at this stage of the cycle I'm afraid.

    Ben, you seem to have gone from cheerleader to Eeyore in the last couple of years. Genuine inquiry: was there one thing in particular that prompted this or has it been more gradual?
    I'm trying to be more realistic now the campaign has started - Ofcom rules and all that!
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,974
    isam said:

    felix said:

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    I agree and expect UKIP to move up after Thursday. It's equally likely to be short-lived - remember Saturday's Milibounce.
    Could well be short lived, if it happens. But amazing people aren't attributing these poll bounces etc for the big two to the Paxo exposure
    I think that vote UKIP, get Milliband is a very powerful argument for the Conservatives. My prediction for quite a while has been for UKIP to poll in the 11-13% range, on the day.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    The thing that I'm most looking forward to on Thursday is seeing the viewing figure.

    I have a feeling it may be considerably lower than 2010, and that hints at both apathy and/or an electorate that has made it's mind up already, which I suspect it has.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    And what was that about tuition fees?

    At less than double digits in the polls - the LibDems need to accept that they made the bed they now lie in.

    As a long-standing Coalitionista, I find the SDPish sharpness of some LDs most unattractive. Comparing Tories or Labour to psychopaths with rusty knives is beyond laughable.

    Eating babies looks more sensible.
    felix said:

    stodge said:

    Plato said:

    I regularly assume LibDems are "a psychopath with a rusty knife"

    Not. The most absurd thing I've seen here in ages. And from a superior voting being who isn't *partisan*

    Absolutely.

    I make no bones about the fact I'm partisan - I'm a Liberal Democrat member and supporter and, to be honest, I now hold the Conservatives and Labour in equal contempt.

    Had Cameron maintained the "liberal conservative" he was or seemed to be in 2010 I'd be in a different place but we now face the fact IF the Conservatives win a majority next month of two years of endless wibbling about Europe followed by a contentious Referendum while we all count down to Cameron's departure.

    To be honest, between that and the bland meanderings of Miliband/Balls, I see very little difference.

    The partisans and Party members like yourself will protest ad nauseam and try to convince me that a vote for the other side will usher in eternal darkness (which it won't) while a vote for their side will usher in a new golden age (which it won't) but there's a lot of evidence people are unconvinced about anyone and everyone and that's something about which we should all be concerned.

    The strongest evidence by far is that the electorate are unconvinced by the LDs. You seem to have forgotten the party's support for an EU referendum last time.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,895
    RodCrosby said:

    UKIP going down like the Lusitania [100th anniversary on election day!]
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13331381/UKIP.PNG

    I'm not sure that's what that graph says at all, Rod. UKIP support has eased from sone of its higher figures earlier in the year but they seem to be able (at present) to hold a core of around 10%.

    I'm afraid UKIP have had the same problem the LDs and before them the Liberals had - the support expands like the proverbial balloon in mid-term but deflates as the election approaches. It will be interesting to see what the UKIP vote does as any EU Referendum approaches.

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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Plato said:

    We often touch on the globalisation of trade/jobs on here - and thought these two bits of retail anecdata were revealing.

    I've bought in the last month two items from China via Amazon. The delivery date was a month hence - they both arrived within a week. One was a bunch of silk irises, the other a calligraphy pen. Hardly big ticket items at less than £15 each. But the quality/price/delivery timeframes are stunning.

    We really need to up our game to compete. Making silk flowers isn't exactly hard as a production task. I live down the road from what was Parker Pens. Are they still in business? I haven't seen one in years.

    @Plato:
    Wiki says, "A management buyout in 1987 moved the company headquarters to Newhaven, East Sussex, England, which was the original location of the Valentine Pen Company previously acquired by Parker. In 1993 Parker was acquired by the Gillette Company, which already owned the Paper Mate brand, one of the best-selling disposable ballpoints. Gillette sold the writing instruments division in 2000 to Newell Rubbermaid, whose own Sanford Stationery Division became the largest in the world—owning such brand names as Rotring, Sharpie, Reynolds as well as Parker, PaperMate, Waterman, and Liquid Paper.

    In July 2009, the 180 workers at Parker Newhaven got notice that the factory would be shut down and the production moved to France.[10] The following month, Newell Rubbermaid Inc. announced that the Janesville, Wisconsin plant was to close the remaining operations tied to Parker Pen (which eliminated 153 jobs). The company press release said:

    "This decision is a response to structural issues accelerated by market trends and is in no way a reflection on the highly valued work performed by our Janesville employees over the years."

    Newell Rubbermaid stated it will offer transitional employment services as well as severance benefits.[11][12]

    More recently, Parker has abandoned traditional retail outlets in North America. While some Jotter pens may be found in retailers such as Office Depot, what little remains of the Parker line has been moved to upscale "luxury" retailers, effectively abandoning the entry level market.[citation needed] With the move to such retailers, Parker weakened its traditional product warranty on its high end pens, moving from a lifetime warranty to a two year warranty."
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    RodCrosby said:

    UKIP going down like the Lusitania [100th anniversary on election day!]
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13331381/UKIP.PNG

    Sunk by the Germans with lots of Americans onboard?
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    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)
    ..............http://www.standard.co.uk/business/markets/hamish-mcrae-message-to-the-next-government--you-will-need-to-get-cleverer-10143839.html
    An excellent piece making, I think, two key points - neither the Conservatives nor Labour can be trusted on the economy .......

    What a load of old stodge. This article does not say that. It does say that both parties have boxed themselves in on tax rises. It also says that although Labour are intending to borrow more the markets may react and charge them more for the money and they may end up punished by that. Seems very sensible. Its overall message is that we need the next Government to be smarter and use modern tools to reduce its costs.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    The Mili/Cameron debate didn't get a mention on my FreeSat showcase list and I totally missed it. The 7-Way has got a mention so I'll record it if I forget to do it live.

    Frankly, I expect it to be a pointless bunfight - entertaining but just for the gaffes.
    chestnut said:

    The thing that I'm most looking forward to on Thursday is seeing the viewing figure.

    I have a feeling it may be considerably lower than 2010, and that hints at both apathy and/or an electorate that has made it's mind up already, which I suspect it has.

  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,895


    Mr Stodge, your postings are a breath of fresh air among some very rancid effusions.

    Most kind, OKC. I do fear the next five weeks are going to be pretty unpleasant for some or indeed most on here as the tribes of partisans march around this site slapping down anyone who doesn't follow them and re-tweeting any old nonsense they find.

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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,917
    felix said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    My first chance to comment for a few days. A solid opening to the campaign for the Conservatives with, as expected, some of the UKIP support "coming home" at the first whiff of electoral gunpowder.

    I wonder if the Conservative tactic is to seek to demoralise Labour early and then hope enough Labour voters stay at home to create an overall majority. We'll see..

    Thursday will be interesting as a spectacle though probably not terribly informative - the April 30th QT will be more so as minds will be concentrating.

    From a personal level I regard a Lab/SNP Government or a Conservative-led Government with the same joy as someone entrusting their crpown jewels to a psychopath with a rusty knife.

    In the acres of pointless partisan verbage currently on offer, this one stuck out like a turd in your crumble and custard:

    http://www.standard.co.uk/business/markets/hamish-mcrae-message-to-the-next-government--you-will-need-to-get-cleverer-10143839.html

    An excellent piece making, I think, two key points - neither the Conservatives nor Labour can be trusted on the economy and the two sets of economic policies aren't that far apart.

    Fortunately the voters are clear that the Conservatives are a safer pair of hands for the economy than anyone else. But it's always fun to hear from a thorough non-partisan with their pearls of wisdom. A few less lemons sucked might make it more convincing. :)
    Quite re pearls. But I wonder, if that is how he describes a piece of which he approves, what he'd think of something he doesn't like ...

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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,006
    I'm really the enjoying the ups and downs of this campaign driven by individual polls with large MOEs. No-one knows what is just around the corner.

    I suspect the politicos and partisans are not enjoying their downs, and the general public are blissfully unaware of all this emotion.

    The volatility should throw up lots of betting opportunities but the betting market moves fairly slowly and seems to ignore individual polls - though it does reflect trends.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited March 2015
    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    felix said:

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    I agree and expect UKIP to move up after Thursday. It's equally likely to be short-lived - remember Saturday's Milibounce.
    Could well be short lived, if it happens. But amazing people aren't attributing these poll bounces etc for the big two to the Paxo exposure
    I think that vote UKIP, get Milliband is a very powerful argument for the Conservatives. My prediction for quite a while has been for UKIP to poll in the 11-13% range, on the day.
    For Tory/Ukip waverers I guess so.. the thing is that if those waverers go back to the Tories in some seats you will get a Labour MP and Miliband rather than a UKIP MP and Cameron
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    I’ve been reading Mr Stooge’s comments for eight years, they are as predictable as the sun rise, unless they involve Tennis tips or Horse racing. :)
    Plato said:

    And what was that about tuition fees?

    At less than double digits in the polls - the LibDems need to accept that they made the bed they now lie in.

    As a long-standing Coalitionista, I find the SDPish sharpness of some LDs most unattractive. Comparing Tories or Labour to psychopaths with rusty knives is beyond laughable.

    Eating babies looks more sensible.

    felix said:

    stodge said:

    Plato said:

    I regularly assume LibDems are "a psychopath with a rusty knife"

    Not. The most absurd thing I've seen here in ages. And from a superior voting being who isn't *partisan*

    Absolutely.

    I make no bones about the fact I'm partisan - I'm a Liberal Democrat member and supporter and, to be honest, I now hold the Conservatives and Labour in equal contempt.

    Had Cameron maintained the "liberal conservative" he was or seemed to be in 2010 I'd be in a different place but we now face the fact IF the Conservatives win a majority next month of two years of endless wibbling about Europe followed by a contentious Referendum while we all count down to Cameron's departure.

    To be honest, between that and the bland meanderings of Miliband/Balls, I see very little difference.

    The partisans and Party members like yourself will protest ad nauseam and try to convince me that a vote for the other side will usher in eternal darkness (which it won't) while a vote for their side will usher in a new golden age (which it won't) but there's a lot of evidence people are unconvinced about anyone and everyone and that's something about which we should all be concerned.

    The strongest evidence by far is that the electorate are unconvinced by the LDs. You seem to have forgotten the party's support for an EU referendum last time.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2015
    This is starting to get a bit worrying for Labour.

    Meanwhile, with the election now plastered all over the media, surely that means that anyone who will EVER be interested in the election will be by the end of this week? That COULD produce a decisive shift in the polls over the coming days as people get into a proper "election mindset". We could see the many people who say they prefer Dave as PM move over to the Tories. Or we could see the people who are terrified of another Tory government (which vastly outnumbers the people who are actively afraid of a Labour government; the complete lack of enthusiasm for Labour is a different thing to fear) rally round Labour,. squeezing down the Green, Red Kipper and non-votes columns.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    RodCrosby said:

    New Chart. The race since 1st January...

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13331381/2015.PNG

    How close did Kalman filtering do last time, also what is LN saying right now ?
    Kalman overestimated the LDs (as did all the polls), but got the Con lead spot on (7.3%).

    Re L&N, if there's another Ipsos/MORI I'll update. March predicts a 7.9% Tory lead and a 67 seat lead...
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    A great shame. Parker was a huge mid-range quality brand - I had about 20 of them of the years just as fountain pens and pencils. The distinctive arrow-head clip was part of my childhood.
    Financier said:

    Plato said:

    We often touch on the globalisation of trade/jobs on here - and thought these two bits of retail anecdata were revealing.

    I've bought in the last month two items from China via Amazon. The delivery date was a month hence - they both arrived within a week. One was a bunch of silk irises, the other a calligraphy pen. Hardly big ticket items at less than £15 each. But the quality/price/delivery timeframes are stunning.

    We really need to up our game to compete. Making silk flowers isn't exactly hard as a production task. I live down the road from what was Parker Pens. Are they still in business? I haven't seen one in years.

    @Plato:
    Wiki says, "A management buyout in 1987 moved the company headquarters to Newhaven, East Sussex, England, which was the original location of the Valentine Pen Company previously acquired by Parker. In 1993 Parker was acquired by the Gillette Company, which already owned the Paper Mate brand, one of the best-selling disposable ballpoints. Gillette sold the writing instruments division in 2000 to Newell Rubbermaid, whose own Sanford Stationery Division became the largest in the world—owning such brand names as Rotring, Sharpie, Reynolds as well as Parker, PaperMate, Waterman, and Liquid Paper.

    In July 2009, the 180 workers at Parker Newhaven got notice that the factory would be shut down and the production moved to France.[10] The following month, Newell Rubbermaid Inc. announced that the Janesville, Wisconsin plant was to close the remaining operations tied to Parker Pen (which eliminated 153 jobs). The company press release said:

    "This decision is a response to structural issues accelerated by market trends and is in no way a reflection on the highly valued work performed by our Janesville employees over the years."

    Newell Rubbermaid stated it will offer transitional employment services as well as severance benefits.[11][12]

    More recently, Parker has abandoned traditional retail outlets in North America. While some Jotter pens may be found in retailers such as Office Depot, what little remains of the Parker line has been moved to upscale "luxury" retailers, effectively abandoning the entry level market.[citation needed] With the move to such retailers, Parker weakened its traditional product warranty on its high end pens, moving from a lifetime warranty to a two year warranty."
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Isam, does seem questionable.
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    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited March 2015
    isam said:

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    You're right, but the more general VI uptick also precedes the TV programme. Despite Ed exceeding expectations it may have only served to further frame the election as being between EM & DC. Having it first was surely perfect for the Tories, even if DC could have done better on the night.
    My worry UKIP wise is that Farage isn't involved in the last QT thing.. outrageous in my opinion given the OFCOM ruling, but I guess that's the lot of an insurgent party
    UKIP do not have the same OFCOM status as Labour, Tories and Liberals. Period. Turn on the rolling news - it's equal coverage for Labour, Tories and Liberals. Sometimes with additional UKIP/SNP/Plaid but usually without.

    It was a ridiculous decision anyway. With 0 elected MPs at the last election they should never have been considered for Major status in any constituent country.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,895
    Plato said:

    And what was that about tuition fees?

    At less than double digits in the polls - the LibDems need to accept that they made the bed they now lie in.

    As a long-standing Coalitionista, I find the SDPish sharpness of some LDs most unattractive. Comparing Tories or Labour to psychopaths with rusty knives is beyond laughable.

    Eating babies looks more sensible.

    I do think the Coalition has done some very good things in spite of the low-level and continuous hostility of a group of Conservatives who, lacking any kind of political courage themselves, have spent the last five years baiting and heckling the LDs.

    To be fair, it wasn't the Liberal Democrats who created the Coalition but David Cameron with his "offer" on the Friday afternoon after the last election so they've also been shouting at the wrong target.

    The Conservatives are big enough and ugly enough to put up with a few jibes but woe betide anyone who even says a word against them. It's that peculiar double-standard cloaked in a thin skin that speaks volumes.

    There are some Conservatives who have tried to make Coalition work and they are much appreciated - there are unfortunately others who understood "Coalition" to mean "support everything the Conservatives want without complaint or objection".
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,449
    Have TNS published the new revised tables yet?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    To be fair, it wasn't the Liberal Democrats who created the Coalition but David Cameron with his "offer" on the Friday afternoon after the last election
    You're kidding? It's the Tories fault that the LDs formed HMG for the first time in 80yrs?

    Good grief.
    stodge said:

    Plato said:

    And what was that about tuition fees?

    At less than double digits in the polls - the LibDems need to accept that they made the bed they now lie in.

    As a long-standing Coalitionista, I find the SDPish sharpness of some LDs most unattractive. Comparing Tories or Labour to psychopaths with rusty knives is beyond laughable.

    Eating babies looks more sensible.

    I do think the Coalition has done some very good things in spite of the low-level and continuous hostility of a group of Conservatives who, lacking any kind of political courage themselves, have spent the last five years baiting and heckling the LDs.

    To be fair, it wasn't the Liberal Democrats who created the Coalition but David Cameron with his "offer" on the Friday afternoon after the last election so they've also been shouting at the wrong target.

    The Conservatives are big enough and ugly enough to put up with a few jibes but woe betide anyone who even says a word against them. It's that peculiar double-standard cloaked in a thin skin that speaks volumes.

    There are some Conservatives who have tried to make Coalition work and they are much appreciated - there are unfortunately others who understood "Coalition" to mean "support everything the Conservatives want without complaint or objection".
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,449
    murali_s said:

    Another ordinary poll (TNS) for Labour. They need to be doing better for sure...

    Sunil - part ELBOW please?

    Using the original TNS tables, 1.1% Tory lead (ComRes/Populus/Ashcroft/YouGov/TNS).
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    Dair said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    You're right, but the more general VI uptick also precedes the TV programme. Despite Ed exceeding expectations it may have only served to further frame the election as being between EM & DC. Having it first was surely perfect for the Tories, even if DC could have done better on the night.
    My worry UKIP wise is that Farage isn't involved in the last QT thing.. outrageous in my opinion given the OFCOM ruling, but I guess that's the lot of an insurgent party
    UKIP do not have the same OFCOM status as Labour, Tories and Liberals. Period. Turn on the rolling news - it's equal coverage for Labour, Tories and Liberals. Sometimes with additional UKIP/SNP/Plaid but usually without.

    It was a ridiculous decision anyway. With 0 elected MPs at the last election they should never have been considered for Major status in any constituent country.
    Nonsense.. that would be like including Man Utd in the Champions League shows this season and not Monaco, because of what used to happen
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,449
    Plato said:

    I've seen increasing numbers of posts on other news forums saying "I want to vote UKIP, but I'll be voting Tory/Labour as they're the only serious option"

    This anecdata seems to be backed up by the slowly descending Kipper polling numbers over time.

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/582187057994444800
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited March 2015

    Plato said:

    I've seen increasing numbers of posts on other news forums saying "I want to vote UKIP, but I'll be voting Tory/Labour as they're the only serious option"

    This anecdata seems to be backed up by the slowly descending Kipper polling numbers over time.

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/582187057994444800
    That just shows UKIP do much better when there is an election campaign going on
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Dair, full stop, old bean. We're not in the colonies.

    Also, OFCOM did rule UKIP had major party status.
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    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    isam said:

    Dair said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    You're right, but the more general VI uptick also precedes the TV programme. Despite Ed exceeding expectations it may have only served to further frame the election as being between EM & DC. Having it first was surely perfect for the Tories, even if DC could have done better on the night.
    My worry UKIP wise is that Farage isn't involved in the last QT thing.. outrageous in my opinion given the OFCOM ruling, but I guess that's the lot of an insurgent party
    UKIP do not have the same OFCOM status as Labour, Tories and Liberals. Period. Turn on the rolling news - it's equal coverage for Labour, Tories and Liberals. Sometimes with additional UKIP/SNP/Plaid but usually without.

    It was a ridiculous decision anyway. With 0 elected MPs at the last election they should never have been considered for Major status in any constituent country.
    Nonsense.. that would be like including Man Utd in the Champions League shows this season and not Monaco, because of what used to happen
    It's not nonsense.

    The TV Coverage is based on giving the main exposure to the three parties which are Major parties in Great Britain. This is a seperate category to national Major parties such as UKIP, the SNP and Plaid.

    There is a good argument that this should be changed for broadcasts which are GB wide but so far OFCOM do not require this.

    But there is an even better argument that UKIP should not be a Major party as they do not have the electoral results at general elections to support this.
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    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    RodCrosby said:

    UKIP going down like the Lusitania [100th anniversary on election day!]
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13331381/UKIP.PNG

    Sank right by what is now my favourite golf course I've ever played http://www.oldhead.com highly recommended to any serious golfers who can afford over €200 a round (other people paid both times I went!)
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,449
    isam said:

    Plato said:

    I've seen increasing numbers of posts on other news forums saying "I want to vote UKIP, but I'll be voting Tory/Labour as they're the only serious option"

    This anecdata seems to be backed up by the slowly descending Kipper polling numbers over time.

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/582187057994444800
    That just shows UKIP do much better when there is an election campaign going on
    In the part-ELBOW so far this week (5 polls), UKIP are hovering around 13.0%
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    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited March 2015

    Mr. Dair, full stop, old bean. We're not in the colonies.

    Also, OFCOM did rule UKIP had major party status.

    OFCOM classify THREE Major Parties in Great Britain - Labour, Tories, Liberals.

    Excluding NI, they additionally classify three Major Parties in Nations. The SNP in Scotland, Plaid in Wales and UKIP in Wales and England. None of these give them the same status as Labour, Tories or Liberals under current OFCOM rules.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited March 2015
    Dair said:

    isam said:

    Dair said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    You're right, but the more general VI uptick also precedes the TV programme. Despite Ed exceeding expectations it may have only served to further frame the election as being between EM & DC. Having it first was surely perfect for the Tories, even if DC could have done better on the night.
    My worry UKIP wise is that Farage isn't involved in the last QT thing.. outrageous in my opinion given the OFCOM ruling, but I guess that's the lot of an insurgent party
    UKIP do not have the same OFCOM status as Labour, Tories and Liberals. Period. Turn on the rolling news - it's equal coverage for Labour, Tories and Liberals. Sometimes with additional UKIP/SNP/Plaid but usually without.

    It was a ridiculous decision anyway. With 0 elected MPs at the last election they should never have been considered for Major status in any constituent country.
    Nonsense.. that would be like including Man Utd in the Champions League shows this season and not Monaco, because of what used to happen
    It's not nonsense.

    The TV Coverage is based on giving the main exposure to the three parties which are Major parties in Great Britain. This is a seperate category to national Major parties such as UKIP, the SNP and Plaid.

    There is a good argument that this should be changed for broadcasts which are GB wide but so far OFCOM do not require this.

    But there is an even better argument that UKIP should not be a Major party as they do not have the electoral results at general elections to support this.
    It is nonsense because under your rules, if the Greens were polling 30% and odds on favourites to win 200 seats they would not get as much coverage as the Lib Dems on 5% and exp of 25 seats

    Ah the old guard, we'll miss em when they've gone

    Dair would blackball any newcomers from the establishment!
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)
    ....
    http://www.standard.co.uk/business/markets/hamish-mcrae-message-to-the-next-government--you-will-need-to-get-cleverer-10143839.html
    An excellent piece making, I think, two key points - neither the Conservatives nor Labour can be trusted on the economy and the two sets of economic policies aren't that far apart.

    If he is saying they are not far apart then he is saying it in a funny way.
    He says...
    ''The cyclical story was the one that undid the last Labour government, for Brown assumed growth would continue for ever. He had, he said, abolished “Tory boom and bust”.
    ...
    The cyclical story does, however, carry one common-sense message for the incoming government: you must use the good years to strengthen public finances so they can withstand the bad ones.''

    First - The tories are saying they will use the good years to strengthen the bad ones. Labour are not. Labours record is clear on this.
    Second - It was not the cycle which undid the last labour govt. It was the way they let the structural deficit runaway. They did not control spending quite the opposite - they let it rip - and this is the millstone around our necks now.

    The next tory govt would indeed continue to cut spending to eliminate the structural deficit. From this basis we as a country can then manage the cyclical ups and downs of the deficit. Since we have zero inflation then no govt could use that to whittle away the debt ratio. The only policy is continued stringency on spending. Anyone with Labour on that?


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    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    isam said:

    Dair said:

    isam said:

    Dair said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    You're right, but the more general VI uptick also precedes the TV programme. Despite Ed exceeding expectations it may have only served to further frame the election as being between EM & DC. Having it first was surely perfect for the Tories, even if DC could have done better on the night.
    My worry UKIP wise is that Farage isn't involved in the last QT thing.. outrageous in my opinion given the OFCOM ruling, but I guess that's the lot of an insurgent party
    UKIP do not have the same OFCOM status as Labour, Tories and Liberals. Period. Turn on the rolling news - it's equal coverage for Labour, Tories and Liberals. Sometimes with additional UKIP/SNP/Plaid but usually without.

    It was a ridiculous decision anyway. With 0 elected MPs at the last election they should never have been considered for Major status in any constituent country.
    Nonsense.. that would be like including Man Utd in the Champions League shows this season and not Monaco, because of what used to happen
    It's not nonsense.

    The TV Coverage is based on giving the main exposure to the three parties which are Major parties in Great Britain. This is a seperate category to national Major parties such as UKIP, the SNP and Plaid.

    There is a good argument that this should be changed for broadcasts which are GB wide but so far OFCOM do not require this.

    But there is an even better argument that UKIP should not be a Major party as they do not have the electoral results at general elections to support this.
    It is nonsense because under your rules, if the Greens were polling 30% and odds on favourites to win 200 seats they would not get as much coverage as the Lib Dems on 5% and exp of 25 seats

    Ah the old guard, we'll miss em when they've gone
    No. Not under my rules. Under OFCOM rules.

    Your initial post was that under the OFCOM ruling UKIP should get the same coverage as Labour, Liberals and Tories. This was wrong because you clearly do not understand the ruling OFCOM made and you clearly do not understand the OFCOM rules.

    Your mewling isn't targetted correctly and arguing your point while not understanding what your talking about does you no favours.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Let's not forget, the past two years, UKIP surged during the "short campaigns" for both the Euro elections and the 2013 locals. A general election is a different kettle of fish obviously, but I do think there's something in the theory that the more exposed the public get to mainstream politicians and all their annoying habits, the more they want to give the lot of them a kicking and vote "none of the above".
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    felix said:

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    I agree and expect UKIP to move up after Thursday. It's equally likely to be short-lived - remember Saturday's Milibounce.
    Could well be short lived, if it happens. But amazing people aren't attributing these poll bounces etc for the big two to the Paxo exposure
    I think that vote UKIP, get Milliband is a very powerful argument for the Conservatives. My prediction for quite a while has been for UKIP to poll in the 11-13% range, on the day.
    For Tory/Ukip waverers I guess so.. the thing is that if those waverers go back to the Tories in some seats you will get a Labour MP and Miliband rather than a UKIP MP and Cameron
    Yes - but that was always the danger with UKIP trying to fish both right and left.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,974
    Danny565 said:

    Let's not forget, the past two years, UKIP surged during the "short campaigns" for both the Euro elections and the 2013 locals. A general election is a different kettle of fish obviously, but I do think there's something in the theory that the more exposed the public get to mainstream politicians and all their annoying habits, the more they want to give the lot of them a kicking and vote "none of the above".

    I think a lot will depend on the closeness of the campaign. If it's perceived to be very tight, UKIP and the Greens will get squeezed (they'll obviously still do far better than in 2010). If either the Conservatives or Labour look to be winning comfortably, they'll do better.

    Something similar happened in 1983. Up till a fortnight before polling day, the Conservatives were polling close to 50%, and the Alliance below 20%. As it became clear that Labour hadn't a hope, a fair number switched from Conservative to Alliance.
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    Flightpath

    I think Ozzy got the spending side of the deficit just about right. But the deficit remains a big ugly sucker because the revenue side isn't there. We need more tax. But...to get more tax the answer is NOT raising taxes but to grow. I think this is why Labour are dangerous. I think they will raise taxes and try some degree or other of central planning/control - with resultant damage to the economy. I think Dave n Ozzy will seek to extend supply side reforms and business liberation.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    Dair said:

    isam said:

    Dair said:

    isam said:

    Dair said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    You're right, but the more general VI uptick also precedes the TV programme. Despite Ed exceeding expectations it may have only served to further frame the election as being between EM & DC. Having it first was surely perfect for the Tories, even if DC could have done better on the night.
    party
    UKIP do not have the same OFCOM status as Labour, Tories and Liberals. Period. Turn on the rolling news - it's equal coverage for Labour, Tories and Liberals. Sometimes with additional UKIP/SNP/Plaid but usually without.

    It was a ridiculous decision anyway. With 0 elected MPs at the last election they should never have been considered for Major status in any constituent country.
    Nonsense.. that would be like including Man Utd in the Champions League shows this season and not Monaco, because of what used to happen
    It's not nonsense.

    The TV Coverage is based on giving the main exposure to the three parties which are Major parties in Great Britain. This is a seperate category to national Major parties such as UKIP, the SNP and Plaid.

    There is a good argument that this should be changed for broadcasts which are GB wide but so far OFCOM do not require this.

    But there is an even better argument that UKIP should not be a Major party as they do not have the electoral results at general elections to support this.
    It is nonsense because under your rules, if the Greens were polling 30% and odds on favourites to win 200 seats they would not get as much coverage as the Lib Dems on 5% and exp of 25 seats

    Ah the old guard, we'll miss em when they've gone
    No. Not under my rules. Under OFCOM rules.

    Your initial post was that under the OFCOM ruling UKIP should get the same coverage as Labour, Liberals and Tories. This was wrong because you clearly do not understand the ruling OFCOM made and you clearly do not understand the OFCOM rules.

    Your mewling isn't targetted correctly and arguing your point while not understanding what your talking about does you no favours.
    Bore OFCOM!

    The Tories and the Lib Dems are an irrelevance in Scotland, yet are considered major parties and so get UK wide access on the back of it.. utter nonsense

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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    Danny565 said:

    Let's not forget, the past two years, UKIP surged during the "short campaigns" for both the Euro elections and the 2013 locals. A general election is a different kettle of fish obviously, but I do think there's something in the theory that the more exposed the public get to mainstream politicians and all their annoying habits, the more they want to give the lot of them a kicking and vote "none of the above".

    and Sunils charts show a nationwide "surge" during the Clacton and Rochester campaigns
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Just been sent the CCHQ PEB and I thought it was far too information rich. The voice over, and the screen idents and the twiddly music and the toddler play = ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

    I felt it had some great core messages that were entirely lost in the fluffy stuff and required too much attention even when I was watching it deliberately. It was also BORING. Nothing captured my attention or made me think.

    It failed the sticky-test. I hope their next ones are much tighter and crisper. I like Martin Freeman and refuse to watch the LHQ PEB as it'll colour my view of his performances.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2015
    stodge said:

    RodCrosby said:

    UKIP going down like the Lusitania [100th anniversary on election day!]
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13331381/UKIP.PNG

    I'm not sure that's what that graph says at all, Rod. UKIP support has eased from sone of its higher figures earlier in the year but they seem to be able (at present) to hold a core of around 10%.

    I'm afraid UKIP have had the same problem the LDs and before them the Liberals had - the support expands like the proverbial balloon in mid-term but deflates as the election approaches. It will be interesting to see what the UKIP vote does as any EU Referendum approaches.

    The 17.5% peaks were immediately after Clacton and Rochester. They needed another by-election in Feb 2015...

    Farage now needs a bounce from the debates.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Dair, really? I was under the impression UKIP was given equal billing to the big three parties. I stand corrected (assuming you're right).
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    FPT:
    Toms said:

    SeanT said:

    Does anyone know how to deal with My Kids Are Growing Up Grief? My eldest, Lucy, no longer needs her child seat in the car. It has been exiled to the attic.

    These transitions are so sudden, and too poignant.

    As a rough principle I'd say kids should have flown the coop by about age 17 or 18 always with the understanding that it's there if they need it. Although, having said that, my lot do seem to have had, for centuries, a genetic "diasporic" disposition to disperse.
    My father ceremonially booted me out the front door of his house on my 18th Birthday. I rang that bell and was readmitted, with accompanying words to the effect that before I was a resident, but now I was a guest!
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    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    isam said:


    No. Not under my rules. Under OFCOM rules.

    Your initial post was that under the OFCOM ruling UKIP should get the same coverage as Labour, Liberals and Tories. This was wrong because you clearly do not understand the ruling OFCOM made and you clearly do not understand the OFCOM rules.

    Your mewling isn't targetted correctly and arguing your point while not understanding what your talking about does you no favours.

    Bore OFCOM!

    The Tories and the Lib Dems are an irrelevance in Scotland, yet are considered major parties and so get UK wide access on the back of it.. utter nonsense


    Finally it's got through to you.

    You're problem isn't with the broadcasters - they are just following the current OFCOM rules. There seems to be a lot of misconception amongst Kippers of what the OFCOM ruling meant for UKIP - a second PEB in England and Wales only - nothing else.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    RodCrosby said:

    stodge said:

    RodCrosby said:

    UKIP going down like the Lusitania [100th anniversary on election day!]
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13331381/UKIP.PNG

    I'm not sure that's what that graph says at all, Rod. UKIP support has eased from sone of its higher figures earlier in the year but they seem to be able (at present) to hold a core of around 10%.

    I'm afraid UKIP have had the same problem the LDs and before them the Liberals had - the support expands like the proverbial balloon in mid-term but deflates as the election approaches. It will be interesting to see what the UKIP vote does as any EU Referendum approaches.

    The 17.5% peaks were immediately after Clacton and Rochester. They needed another by-election in Feb 2015...

    Farage now needs a bounce from the debates.
    I wonder if the 2nd debate might be the more effective one for him, where he stands alone versus the left. However the viewing figures for that one might be poor.
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    DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Mr. Dair, really? I was under the impression UKIP was given equal billing to the big three parties. I stand corrected (assuming you're right).

    Such as the assumption that any problem in the UK is because of immigrants...
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Pulpstar said:

    felix said:

    isam said:

    I worry everyone will say I am just clutching at straws for UKIP here, but it seems obvious to me (maybe because I am biased?), and I am trying to be objective from a betting perspective...

    Aren't the uptick in Con/Ed ratings easily explained by the fact they just had a big TV programme involving only the pair of them? It is so obvious I feel silly mentioning it, but no one else has

    I agree and expect UKIP to move up after Thursday. It's equally likely to be short-lived - remember Saturday's Milibounce.
    Saturday's Milibounce explained the Cleggasm to me (Oversampling the interested). The thing is that one got an echo effect which reverberated to general polling for a bit whereas this one didn't.
    It wasn't a 'Milibounce' - it was a 'Yocto' bounce. (And has probably ruined YG reputation as a reliable polling organisation - not to mention made the BBC/ Channel 4 and Sky a laughing stock.)
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited March 2015
    Dair said:

    isam said:


    No. Not under my rules. Under OFCOM rules.

    Your initial post was that under the OFCOM ruling UKIP should get the same coverage as Labour, Liberals and Tories. This was wrong because you clearly do not understand the ruling OFCOM made and you clearly do not understand the OFCOM rules.

    Your mewling isn't targetted correctly and arguing your point while not understanding what your talking about does you no favours.

    Bore OFCOM!

    The Tories and the Lib Dems are an irrelevance in Scotland, yet are considered major parties and so get UK wide access on the back of it.. utter nonsense
    Finally it's got through to you.

    You're problem isn't with the broadcasters - they are just following the current OFCOM rules. There seems to be a lot of misconception amongst Kippers of what the OFCOM ruling meant for UKIP - a second PEB in England and Wales only - nothing else.

    --------------------------------------------

    I am wearing Orthapaedic shoes

    But its nonsense
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Plato said:

    To be fair, it wasn't the Liberal Democrats who created the Coalition but David Cameron with his "offer" on the Friday afternoon after the last election
    You're kidding? It's the Tories fault that the LDs formed HMG for the first time in 80yrs?

    Good grief.
    stodge said:

    Plato said:

    And what was that about tuition fees?

    At less than double digits in the polls - the LibDems need to accept that they made the bed they now lie in.

    As a long-standing Coalitionista, I find the SDPish sharpness of some LDs most unattractive. Comparing Tories or Labour to psychopaths with rusty knives is beyond laughable.

    Eating babies looks more sensible.

    I do think the Coalition has done some very good things in spite of the low-level and continuous hostility of a group of Conservatives who, lacking any kind of political courage themselves, have spent the last five years baiting and heckling the LDs.

    To be fair, it wasn't the Liberal Democrats who created the Coalition but David Cameron with his "offer" on the Friday afternoon after the last election so they've also been shouting at the wrong target.

    ...

    Yes its preposterous to 'blame' the tories for the coalition.
    Labour made offers as well.
    The LDs constantly rubbished their own government. Undermining themsleves in the process.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045

    murali_s said:

    Another ordinary poll (TNS) for Labour. They need to be doing better for sure...

    Sunil - part ELBOW please?

    Using the original TNS tables, 1.1% Tory lead (ComRes/Populus/Ashcroft/YouGov/TNS).
    That's a decent Tory lead...

    Ashcroft marginal polling tomorrow may be the fillip we lefties need. Let's see....
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Dair, not quite sure what point you're making on immigrants.

    Mr. Hopkins, 'running scared' at 4/1 looks tempting.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    Another ordinary poll (TNS) for Labour. They need to be doing better for sure...

    Sunil - part ELBOW please?

    Using the original TNS tables, 1.1% Tory lead (ComRes/Populus/Ashcroft/YouGov/TNS).
    That's a decent Tory lead...

    Ashcroft marginal polling tomorrow may be the fillip we lefties need. Let's see....
    Fieldwork dates on Ashcroft will be important.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Might have already been posted, but Damian McBride gives his tips for next Labour leader:

    http://blog.paddypower.com/2015/03/30/damian-mcbride-my-501-outside-bet-to-be-next-labour-leader-if-ed-miliband-gets-the-bullet/

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    I suspect one clear learning of the last 5 years is that if we have coalitions then the minor party should get whole departments entirely to itself rather than a body here and a body there.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited March 2015
    FYI...with the news that Dave Ulliot, one of the most [in]famous professional poker players on the UK scene has only days to live after being diagnosed with terminal cancer, I stumbled across an old set of documentaries about 3 old school professional gamblers / hustlers on youtube.

    Harry Findlay, Terry Ramsden and Dave Ulliot

    Well worth a watch....



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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    Re: the Cleggasm. There was one, wasn't there? I thought the LDs added about 500,000 votes at the last GE to their already very strong 2005 figure, but that they got them in the wrong places so they lost some seats. Or am I completely imagining this?
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Labour voters are getting behind their man !
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    Danny565 said:

    Might have already been posted, but Damian McBride gives his tips for next Labour leader:

    http://blog.paddypower.com/2015/03/30/damian-mcbride-my-501-outside-bet-to-be-next-labour-leader-if-ed-miliband-gets-the-bullet/

    Is there anybody Paddy Power wont use?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,064
    edited March 2015

    Plato said:

    To be fair, it wasn't the Liberal Democrats who created the Coalition but David Cameron with his "offer" on the Friday afternoon after the last election
    You're kidding? It's the Tories fault that the LDs formed HMG for the first time in 80yrs?

    Good grief.
    stodge said:

    Plato said:

    And what was that about tuition fees?

    At less than double digits in the polls - the LibDems need to accept that they made the bed they now lie in.

    As a long-standing Coalitionista, I find the SDPish sharpness of some LDs most unattractive. Comparing Tories or Labour to psychopaths with rusty knives is beyond laughable.

    Eating babies looks more sensible.

    I do think the Coalition has done some very good things in spite of the low-level and continuous hostility of a group of Conservatives who, lacking any kind of political courage themselves, have spent the last five years baiting and heckling the LDs.

    To be fair, it wasn't the Liberal Democrats who created the Coalition but David Cameron with his "offer" on the Friday afternoon after the last election so they've also been shouting at the wrong target.

    ...
    Yes its preposterous to 'blame' the tories for the coalition.
    Labour made offers as well.
    The LDs constantly rubbished their own government. Undermining themsleves in the process.


    Surely the point was that without a coalition there was a serious and real danger of a “run on the pound”? The fact of a government being formed which looked as though it would last a good few months scotched that possibility.

    That members on each side didn’t like everything that was being done isn’t the point. We’ve not had a peacetime coalition in the country since WWII, and the one example before that wasn’t a shining success. The physical structure of Parliament itself mitigates them being successful.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,064

    Re: the Cleggasm. There was one, wasn't there? I thought the LDs added about 500,000 votes at the last GE to their already very strong 2005 figure, but that they got them in the wrong places so they lost some seats. Or am I completely imagining this?

    No, you are not.
This discussion has been closed.