Consensus on a forum I post on (of people who generally aren't THAT interested in politics) is that Ed came over as surprisingly human and defended himself well in the tough Paxman questions, but that he didn't give any real answer to the question of "why vote Labour?" whereas Cameron set out a much clearer case of why there should be another Tory government.
Evening all and listening to a procession of journalists on SKY, I think they need to get out of Westminster and talk to real people. Real people thought Cameron won.
I suspect that Miliband saying the last Labour government didn't spend or borrow too much will start appearing on Tory posters.
Consensus on a forum I post on (of people who generally aren't THAT interested in politics) is that Ed came over as surprisingly human, but that he didn't give any real answer to the question of "why vote Labour?" whereas Cameron set out a much clearer case of why there should be another Tory government.
That seems to be the consensus for me as well. Dave stuck to his talking points and played a very straight bat with Paxman. Ed was very poor at the policy side, good on the personal stuff.
End result: Ed not as bad, Dave still decent. Labour have no vision, Tories do.
I would call that a net gain for Labour, but I doubt it will shift many votes.
That was terrible by Miliband. Absolutely dreadful. The only bit he rallied was the second half of Paxo which was then totally undone by the 'off air' final question.
@paulwaugh: Inept spin alert RT @IndyPolitics: Lab spin doctor dismisses poll "Ppl who watch late at nite "older, richer & tend to be more Conservative"
Consensus on a forum I post on (of people who generally aren't THAT interested in politics) is that Ed came over as surprisingly human, but that he didn't give any real answer to the question of "why vote Labour?" whereas Cameron set out a much clearer case of why there should be another Tory government.
That seems to be the consensus for me as well. Dave stuck to his talking points and played a very straight bat with Paxman. Ed was very poor at the policy side, good on the personal stuff.
End result: Ed not as bad, Dave still decent. Labour have no vision, Tories do.
I would call that a net gain for Labour, but I doubt it will shift many votes.
Why shouldn't a seasoned politician with nothing else better to do not come across as anything less than human in a key job interview? He gets out of bed and puts on his underpants. That bits easy. Balancing the budget - ah...
It raises the question: has CCHQ blown its foot off in trying to sabotage the debates? Given that Cameron is generally better at this than Miliband, surely the more debates the better for the blue team.
Absolutely, not even a mention of not having a Dave vs Ed direct debate. That whole issue has fallen away and no one has noticed.
I still think Dave would wipe the floor with Ed if Dave was properly warmed up. Hopefully his first 10 mins with Paxman will force him to do his homework for the 7-way and the leaders question time. Dave needs to get to grips better with the numbers. A lot better.
@MShapland: Reminder Miliband thinks the Dome was the biggest mistake of the last Labour Government not the Iraq war killing 100,000 #BattleForNumber10
Evening all and listening to a procession of journalists on SKY, I think they need to get out of Westminster and talk to real people. Real people thought Cameron won.
I suspect that Miliband saying the last Labour government didn't spend or borrow too much will start appearing on Tory posters.
Good night all.
Good night. For the record, Brown increased spending by 50% between 2000 and 2010; in real terms. An increase never seen outside wartime. Has Mr N Palmer said yet if he thinks that was a good idea and where the money was supposed to come from? If Paxman did not know that or did and chose not to mention it - well he and every other commentator is derelict in their duty. As are duff Spectator journalists who praise - er duff journalists.
@tnewtondunn: Our #SunNation Twitter Worm final verdict: Cameron stronger against Paxman, but Miliband scored better with audience; http://t.co/6gqRpEM49K
@JananGanesh: Twitter's mastery of British public opinion demonstrated again tonight...
Ed Miliband did better than David Cameron on four counts: governing in the interests of the many not the few (55% v 27%); having the courage to say what’s right rather than what’s popular (51% v 35%); and understanding “people like me” (48% v 25%). And, when asked which leader was more spin than substance, Miliband also did better. Some 49% said Cameron was more spin than substance, but only 35% for Miliband.
Cameron also won on four counts: being respected around the word (58% to 19%): being decisive (54% to 29%); being good in a crisis (46% to 21%); and being backed by his party (58% to 21%).
The two men are almost equally matched on having “changed his party for the better”. Some 36% say that of Cameron, and 35% of Miliband.
Clever tactic by Miliband though to say the things he most admired about Cameron were introducing gay marriage and protecting overseas aid, the 2 things rightwingers and Kippers most loathe him for!
I thought Labour were against the overseas aid? No on balance I think that was bad tactics - but maybe he was being honest.
I think ultimately it came to slightly weird or weirdly odd (Miliband) versus jaded, tired and lacking ideas (Cameron).
The brutality of politics is that weird never wins out in the end- Gore, Kerry, Romney and Brown.... all casualties.
Quoting myself (how narcissistic)- Nicky Morgan, case in point. I usually listen to Question Time on the Radio, and she is very compelling (verbally she pummelled Tristram Hunt). But watching her on TV tonight, she comes across as a side character in a David Lynch series. She has a really scary stare.
@tnewtondunn: Our #SunNation Twitter Worm final verdict: Cameron stronger against Paxman, but Miliband scored better with audience; http://t.co/6gqRpEM49K
@JananGanesh: Twitter's mastery of British public opinion demonstrated again tonight...
Interesting that is opposite to opinion on here. Most people thought Cameron did well with the audience, awful with Paxman and Miliband vice versa.
I'd be surprised if this moves voting intention even 0.1% on the day.
1) Small audience 2) Nothing decisive happened 3) Most of those who watched will have forgotten it within 3 days, let alone 6 weeks.
Agreed. The already-forgotten failed knifing of the speaker was by far the most important event in British politics today, this week, maybe even the year so far.
I think ultimately it came to slightly weird or weirdly odd (Miliband) versus jaded, tired and lacking ideas (Cameron).
The brutality of politics is that weird never wins out in the end- Gore, Kerry, Romney and Brown.... all casualties.
Quoting myself (how narcissistic)- Nicky Morgan, case in point. I usually listen to Question Time on the Radio, and she is very compelling (verbally she pummelled Tristram Hunt). But watching her on TV tonight, she comes across as a side character in a David Lynch series. She has a really scary stare.
I realise why I hate debates and I have fallen into my own trap. Night...
@tnewtondunn: Our #SunNation Twitter Worm final verdict: Cameron stronger against Paxman, but Miliband scored better with audience; http://t.co/6gqRpEM49K
@tnewtondunn: Our #SunNation Twitter Worm final verdict: Cameron stronger against Paxman, but Miliband scored better with audience; http://t.co/6gqRpEM49K
Exact opposite of what DH thought.
Cameron was dire on detail with Paxo
Not as bad as Ed. Ed was awful on policy. His ratings are as good as the are because he dealt very well with the personal stuff and the stuff about his brother. Even I think he did well with that and Paxman was looking too much like a bully.
@tnewtondunn: Our #SunNation Twitter Worm final verdict: Cameron stronger against Paxman, but Miliband scored better with audience; http://t.co/6gqRpEM49K
Exact opposite of what DH thought.
Cameron was dire on detail with Paxo
I don't have problem with the PM not having total knowledge of detail. In fact I think it is an advantage.
You delegate detail when you are in the top position.
Gordon was a detail man, and bogged down with to the point of governmental paralysis, for example.
@tnewtondunn: Our #SunNation Twitter Worm final verdict: Cameron stronger against Paxman, but Miliband scored better with audience; http://t.co/6gqRpEM49K
Exact opposite of what DH thought.
Cameron was dire on detail with Paxo
I don't have problem with the PM not having total knowledge of detail. In fact I think it is an advantage.
You delegate detail when you are in the top position.
Gordon was a detail man, and bogged down with to the point of governmental paralysis, for example.
I think that is fair and I have a similar opinion....However, when you go for the old job interview, it is normally a good idea to have done your homework and got a good grasp of the numbers. When you got the job, then you pay the minions to do the reports for you.
@tnewtondunn: Our #SunNation Twitter Worm final verdict: Cameron stronger against Paxman, but Miliband scored better with audience; http://t.co/6gqRpEM49K
@paulwaugh: Inept spin alert RT @IndyPolitics: Lab spin doctor dismisses poll "Ppl who watch late at nite "older, richer & tend to be more Conservative"
Now that's just low, anonymous Lab spin doctor, and you know you wouldn't say that if the polls were in your favour. They should just put up a disclaimer at the beginning that anyone watching must accept that in doing so they are a little bit weird, and then we need not mention how those watching are unrepresentative, how little impact it will have etc etc.
These revelations around Muslim terrorism never begin to amaze me
These rallies are useful for giving Mi5 a few leads.
This fellow lost his daughter to a slave trading nutter. But it is all someone elses fault, not his own fault for following a seventh century slave trader.
I'd be surprised if this moves voting intention even 0.1% on the day.
1) Small audience 2) Nothing decisive happened 3) Most of those who watched will have forgotten it within 3 days, let alone 6 weeks.
Completely agreed. There's a good reason Cameron agreed to it but not a proper two-way debate which would actually get people's attention and potentially move the needle.
Paxman hit Miliband hard with his tale of a cabbie who said if Miliband was left in a room with Putin Putin would come out smiling with Miliband in pieces on the floor, hit home the perception he is weak. However, I also thought Ed M came back well by saying his opposition to action against Assad showed he could be tough when needed. Paxo also a little patronising at the end asking Ed if he was alright
I think the other issue is that Ed didn't get any knock out blows here like Clegg did in round one last time. Dave made a massive improvement from round one to round two and I expect him to do the same again, but Clegg won the crucial first round by a fair distance. Ed trailed a poor (by his own standards) Dave by 8 points. In the next round I think Ed is in trouble, Dave will be heavily coached to avoid the embarrassment that were the first 10 minutes vs Paxman and Ed may become complacent like Clegg did in round two.
All to play for and luckily for Dave not many people will have seen this and tomorrow's headlines are going to be dominated by the plane crash and the suicidal pilot rather than the "debate".
@tnewtondunn: Our #SunNation Twitter Worm final verdict: Cameron stronger against Paxman, but Miliband scored better with audience; http://t.co/6gqRpEM49K
@JananGanesh: Twitter's mastery of British public opinion demonstrated again tonight...
Interesting that is opposite to opinion on here. Most people thought Cameron did well with the audience, awful with Paxman and Miliband vice versa.
No, Miliband failed with both. Expectations of him were hugely low, and he managed to fulfil them.
Not according to the polling.
Big winners from tonight, Paxman and Crosby (who has got his boss out of what could have been a far more negative situation if he had have done 3 debates all close to the GE).
Small winner Miliband, as he managed to do equally as badly as Cameron, just marginally managed to not shit themselves and gives opportunities for cheerleaders to say he was awesome from incredibly low expectation point.
@benatipsosmori: Miliband emerged with 53% cheers to 47% boos on Twitter. First time we've seen a politician emerge with more cheers than boos overall.
Ah, perhaps some context...
@benatipsosmori: Labour much more disciplined online that Conservatives. Their MPs sent 358 Tweets. Conservative MPs sent just 27, #BattleforNo10
This maybe going overboard but I think Steven Woolfe is UKIPs best TV performer... he'll probably get a bout of tourettes or something now Ive said that, but he never puts a foot wrong!
@benatipsosmori: Miliband emerged with 53% cheers to 47% boos on Twitter. First time we've seen a politician emerge with more cheers than boos overall.
Apparently six times more people commented on Cameron than Miliband. How can that possibly be right?
Sky just cannot help themselves. Now interviewing two of Camerons close friends asking them what they thought. Next up......an interview with Sam Cameron.
@benatipsosmori: Miliband emerged with 53% cheers to 47% boos on Twitter. First time we've seen a politician emerge with more cheers than boos overall.
Apparently six times more people commented on Cameron than Miliband. How can that possibly be right?
Cameron went first and people got bored the longer it went on?
@benatipsosmori: Miliband emerged with 53% cheers to 47% boos on Twitter. First time we've seen a politician emerge with more cheers than boos overall.
Apparently six times more people commented on Cameron than Miliband. How can that possibly be right?
@benatipsosmori: Miliband emerged with 53% cheers to 47% boos on Twitter. First time we've seen a politician emerge with more cheers than boos overall.
Ah, perhaps some context...
@benatipsosmori: Labour much more disciplined online that Conservatives. Their MPs sent 358 Tweets. Conservative MPs sent just 27, #BattleforNo10
@benatipsosmori: Miliband emerged with 53% cheers to 47% boos on Twitter. First time we've seen a politician emerge with more cheers than boos overall.
Ah, perhaps some context...
@benatipsosmori: Labour much more disciplined online that Conservatives. Their MPs sent 358 Tweets. Conservative MPs sent just 27, #BattleforNo10
May also explain my timeline full of win for Ed
Tories don't seem to get that this politics is a team game.
I bet if Labour had set up the trap to oust the speaker, they would have "whipped" them through. Same when they come on the telly, it is auto droid speak...cost of living crisis....cost of living crisis....with laser like precision.
Again Nicky Morgan- every, I mean every Tory politician talks about the Clarkson affair through the prism of the misery of their offspring at him being off air.
When can a politician ever speak unscripted? Do they really have to user their children? Please.
@MattChorley: SPIN EMAILS: Tonight was a clear illustration that Cameron/Miliband can/cannot defend/explain his record/plan and is/isn't fit to run a bath
Mr Woolfe should have addressed the comment on EU migration providing a net benefit. Migration Watch have already criticised the report for making wild assumptions.
The comment about 2 million British workers in the EU is beyond annoying as acquired rights cannot be lost.
Comments
Cameron 51%
Miliband 49%
802 respondents
I suspect that Miliband saying the last Labour government didn't spend or borrow too much will start appearing on Tory posters.
Good night all.
End result: Ed not as bad, Dave still decent. Labour have no vision, Tories do.
I would call that a net gain for Labour, but I doubt it will shift many votes.
Why an 8 point lead in the debate (from the Gold standard pollsters) means David Cameron cannot win the election...
1) Small audience
2) Nothing decisive happened
3) Most of those who watched will have forgotten it within 3 days, let alone 6 weeks.
Shocked
Early copy as Dave went first... No more or less.
I still think Dave would wipe the floor with Ed if Dave was properly warmed up. Hopefully his first 10 mins with Paxman will force him to do his homework for the 7-way and the leaders question time. Dave needs to get to grips better with the numbers. A lot better.
..and Kay Burley fancies him!!
He really doesn't do detail does he
The brutality of politics is that weird never wins out in the end- Gore, Kerry, Romney and Brown.... all casualties.
For the record, Brown increased spending by 50% between 2000 and 2010; in real terms. An increase never seen outside wartime.
Has Mr N Palmer said yet if he thinks that was a good idea and where the money was supposed to come from?
If Paxman did not know that or did and chose not to mention it - well he and every other commentator is derelict in their duty. As are duff Spectator journalists who praise - er duff journalists.
Steven Woolfe doing really well on QT. Next future leader of UKIP.
@JananGanesh: Twitter's mastery of British public opinion demonstrated again tonight...
Ed Miliband did better than David Cameron on four counts: governing in the interests of the many not the few (55% v 27%); having the courage to say what’s right rather than what’s popular (51% v 35%); and understanding “people like me” (48% v 25%). And, when asked which leader was more spin than substance, Miliband also did better. Some 49% said Cameron was more spin than substance, but only 35% for Miliband.
Cameron also won on four counts: being respected around the word (58% to 19%): being decisive (54% to 29%); being good in a crisis (46% to 21%); and being backed by his party (58% to 21%).
The two men are almost equally matched on having “changed his party for the better”. Some 36% say that of Cameron, and 35% of Miliband.
Father of 'jihadi bride' schoolgirl attended 2012 Islamist rally attended by Lee Rigby's killer and led by preacher Anjem Choudary
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3013703/Father-jihadi-bride-schoolgirl-attended-2012-Islamist-rally-attended-Lee-Rigby-s-killer-led-preacher-Anjem-Choudary.html
Cameron was dire on detail with Paxo
@JohnRentoul: Certain amount of customer resistance among Twitter Eddites to the verdict of the British public as conveyed by ICM.
Would have preferred we win with a debate, but can't have everything.
You delegate detail when you are in the top position.
Gordon was a detail man, and bogged down with to the point of governmental paralysis, for example.
All in all it's a Miliband win on expectations.
This fellow lost his daughter to a slave trading nutter. But it is all someone elses fault, not his own fault for following a seventh century slave trader.
All to play for and luckily for Dave not many people will have seen this and tomorrow's headlines are going to be dominated by the plane crash and the suicidal pilot rather than the "debate".
Big winners from tonight, Paxman and Crosby (who has got his boss out of what could have been a far more negative situation if he had have done 3 debates all close to the GE).
Small winner Miliband, as he managed to do equally as badly as Cameron, just marginally managed to not shit themselves and gives opportunities for cheerleaders to say he was awesome from incredibly low expectation point.
Will it impact polling...seems unlikely.
Ah, perhaps some context...
@benatipsosmori: Labour much more disciplined online that Conservatives. Their MPs sent 358 Tweets. Conservative MPs sent just 27, #BattleforNo10
May also explain my timeline full of win for Ed
Well, what can you say?
How did he do on facebook?
I bet if Labour had set up the trap to oust the speaker, they would have "whipped" them through. Same when they come on the telly, it is auto droid speak...cost of living crisis....cost of living crisis....with laser like precision.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/260068703/Gdn-ICMFlashPollMilibandCameron
93% of Conservatives said Cameron won.
Lib Dem supporters broke for Miliband 52% to 48%. Ukip voters for Cameron 70% to 30%.
Pre-poll voting intention:
Con 253
Lab 350
ICM had the parties 36 and 35 in their last VI, something seems odd there.
Dave won 17% of the Labour VI vs Ed winning 7% of the Tory VI, Dave also did well with UKIP at 68% vs Ed at 28%.
When can a politician ever speak unscripted? Do they really have to user their children? Please.
Con 253
Lab 350
LOL.
How did labour split?
Miliband won on expectations.
Goodnight.
Ed Balls said extending HS2 past Birmingham made 'no economic sense'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4ldiXhDrHw
The comment about 2 million British workers in the EU is beyond annoying as acquired rights cannot be lost.
http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/research/briefing-papers/RP13-42/leaving-the-eu