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But I do wonder if Ed Miliband’s “Hell Yeah”when Paxman asked him if he was “tough enough to deal with the likes of Putin” maybe the most memorable event from the whole debates and interviews. Whether it is for good or ill, we will soon find out.
That was terrible by Miliband. Absolutely dreadful. The only bit he rallied was the second half of Paxo which was then totally undone by the 'off air' final question.
My Twitter's largely calling it for Ed. Not sure myself. Cameron got an easier ride but there's no doubt he's a more accomplished speaker. The exception is usually when he gets personally rattled ('Flashman') but there was nothing to push him there tonight.
I'm going to be the dissenting voice and say that Paxman wasn't great either, especially with the groan-worthy personal attacks.
I'd give it slightly to Milliband, as he did well at the end after a pretty brutal opening. I'd guess both leaders are happy it's over, and neither tripped up.
I thought Cameron edged it but about 7:5 rather than some kind of walk over.
Yep that's probably fair. He was measured. Miliband got rattled and the audience laughed at him. The final Paxo question was truly dreadful. OMG one of the most memorable moments in TV history to date. Fortunately for him few people were probably watching.
Paxman allowed Ed back in by going personal, that's where Ed did the best.
Yes he overdid that. But then it is easier to challenge someone who has a record. Ed walked away from pretty much everything the last Labour government did which made it hard to challenge him about that.
Didn't see it, but it sounds as if Miliband fell below expectations, which surely wasn't the intention.
Not really. He did okay, on the personal stuff he was reasonably good. On the policy stuff he was dire but people will forget about that because it is expected.
Overall Ed will have gained and Cameron will stay static.
Cameron winner according to Guardian ICM poll...54/46
Egg on face of Guardian journo who has been ramping up how impressive and well prepared Ed Miliband was throughout. What's that I hear....the delete key being rapidly pressed on the Guardian's journo's keyboard as they have to rewrite 100's of words of how Miliband wiped the floor with Cameron.
I thought Cameron edged it but about 7:5 rather than some kind of walk over.
Yep that's probably fair. He was measured. Miliband got rattled and the audience laughed at him. The final Paxo question was truly dreadful. OMG one of the most memorable moments in TV history to date. Fortunately for him few people were probably watching.
Yeah, even better than the moon landings, World Trade Center destruction, and the Iranian Embassy Siege!
Didn't see it, but it sounds as if Miliband fell below expectations, which surely wasn't the intention.
Not really. He did okay, on the personal stuff he was reasonably good. On the policy stuff he was dire but people will forget about that because it is expected.
Overall Ed will have gained and Cameron will stay static.
I would be surprised if headline VI moves beyond MoE as a result. Ed may see a slight uptick in his personal approval ratings, but I wouldn't guarantee it.
Visually it was Dave 10 Ed 0 verbally ditto. I did think ED did better at the end(better than fecking awful), but I am the wrong person to ask because I just cannot bear to listen to him. It was just dreadful.
Paxman got the better of Ed early on in part because of Eds inability to cope with him, Cameron is better in that situation. Towards the end Ed had his moments against Paxman, he had a bad experience with some sunny uplands.
By definition as the opposition it is an easier it is easier to attack the record than it is for the incumbent to defend a 5 year record in which things are bound to go wrong.
Cammo steady but guarded and fairlydull, Eddie started poorly with Paxo but turned it round and his interview was the better watch. BBC have called it for Eddie for what that is worth.
Cammo steady but guarded and fairlydull, Eddie started poorly with Paxo but turned it round and his interview was the better watch. BBC have called it for Eddie for what that is worth.
BBC called for Ed...There's a shock....probably because that is what is says on the Guardian website. In other news, something about bears and woods and shitting...
Now we are on the spin from Guardian...
2) But, given Ed Miliband’s personal ratings before tonight, Miliband is the man who has outperformed his benchmark - quite significantly.
I think we should wait and see what the standard VI polls say. I don't think either are going to benefit from this experience.
Cameron should have won that by a much bigger margin. He needs to up his game.
Indeed. Though it should be noted that Dave improved a lot between the first and second debate last time so next time he should be better.
Cameron has two modes: wing it and panic.
The close shave should generate a panic, so he doesn't try and wing it next time and actually prepared properly.
He comes across as someone who has had it all, and doesnt have to work at it. It breeds complacency. Also what came up from Paxman was his 'promises'. He made promises on things that he didnt need to. He needs to caveat undertakings when he has no real control over the outcome. Why on earth would he make a commitment on immigration, when it could only apply outside the EU, or did he caveat it, and not pull paxman up because of it?
Not good. Can you imagine Blair losing to Major in 1997 on this sort of thing? And this should have allowed Miliband to play his trump cards: compassion, vision and standing up for the weak and the oppressed against the most inept and vindictive government of all time.
Visually it was Dave 10 Ed 0 verbally ditto. I did think ED did better at the end(better than fecking awful), but I am the wrong person to ask because I just cannot bear to listen to him. It was just dreadful.
Narrow win for Cameron, but I doubt many will have watched it on C4/SKY in primetime and it was not head to head. More encouraging for him is the narrow yougov Tory lead tonight
Cameron winner according to Guardian ICM poll...54/46
Egg on face of Guardian journo who has been ramping up how impressive and well prepared Ed Miliband was throughout. What's that I hear....the delete key being rapidly pressed on the Guardian's journo's keyboard as they have to rewrite 100's of words of how Miliband wiped the floor with Cameron.
Ed finished ok but mean Qs from paxo got him sympathy, audience went aahhh.
Surprisingly Allegra on newsnight called it big win for Ed and showed why cammo not want debate ed....
Ed also benefit from going second so knew he'd get a q about what was good re dave. Audience deffo negative more to ed but then sound sympathy for him, as then backed up with panoramic asking him not off Mike if he was ok!
Wow, was that really appropriate for her to say that?
Who? and what did they say? and who did they say it to?
Kay said that Ed was shaking before he got on stage. She did go on to say how he became confident once it was underway. Oh, she said it to some journo.
Wow, was that really appropriate for her to say that?
Who? and what did they say? and who did they say it to?
Kay said that Ed was shaking before he got on stage. She did go on to say how he became confident once it was underway. Oh, she said it to some journo.
Are the same organisation going to analyse whether the Pope is Catholic? I mean, seriously, platform for shouty people reports a win for a left wing shouty person? Quel surprise.
Visually it was Dave 10 Ed 0 verbally ditto. I did think ED did better at the end(better than fecking awful), but I am the wrong person to ask because I just cannot bear to listen to him. It was just dreadful.
Well if you are not the person to ask then why comment?
Well I guess you take my comment and look at all the others and take a view. you wont get an unbiased view from me, but then again all your Dave cant win threads aren't exactly unbiased. are they.. Why write so many of them... we know you think Dave cant win./
The sample of viewers, who were weighted to bring them in line with the broader population, were asked to put aside their party preference and concentrate only on what they heard during the programme, 46% felt that Cameron had the best arguments, as against 44% who said the same of Miliband. Cameron was also judged slightly more convincing – by 48% to 43% – and to have the more appealing personality, by 46% to 42%. He chalked up a clearer win on “actually answering the questions asked”, by 44% to 37%.
There was better news for Miliband when it comes to the crucial question of shifting votes: 56% of the sub-sample who said they might change their mind will now plump for Labour, as against just 30% for the Conservatives.
David Cameron retains his lead as best prime minister in this survey - but by a smaller margin than in many past polls – he is preferred on this count by 48% as against just 40% for Miliband.
Are the same organisation going to analyse whether the Pope is Catholic? I mean, seriously, platform for shouty people reports a win for a left wing shouty person? Quel surprise.
Cameron winner according to Guardian ICM poll...54/46
Egg on face of Guardian journo who has been ramping up how impressive and well prepared Ed Miliband was throughout. What's that I hear....the delete key being rapidly pressed on the Guardian's journo's keyboard as they have to rewrite 100's of words of how Miliband wiped the floor with Cameron.
Ed finished ok but mean Qs from paxo got him sympathy, audience went aahhh.
Surprisingly Allegra on newsnight called it big win for Ed and showed why cammo not want debate ed....
Ed also benefit from going second so knew he'd get a q about what was good re dave. Audience deffo negative more to ed but then sound sympathy for him, as then backed up with panoramic asking him not off Mike if he was ok!
He might have said the same to Cameron, but maybe not with the 'Dave' bit. Who knows? Everyone does need to be paranoid about open mics in the next 6 weeks.
ICM details: An instant Guardian/ICM poll found that David Cameron had narrowly “won” the contest with 54% saying that the PM came out on top once the don’t knows were excluded, compared with just 46% who felt that Miliband had the edge.
The sample of viewers, who were weighted to bring them in line with the broader population, were asked to put aside their party preference and concentrate only on what they heard during the programme, 46% felt that Cameron had the best arguments, as against 44% who said the same of Miliband. Cameron was also judged slightly more convincing – by 48% to 43% – and to have the more appealing personality, by 46% to 42%. He chalked up a clearer win on “actually answering the questions asked”, by 44% to 37%.
There was better news for Miliband when it comes to the crucial question of shifting votes: 56% of the sub-sample who said they might change their mind will now plump for Labour, as against just 30% for the Conservatives.
David Cameron retains his lead as best prime minister in this survey - but by a smaller margin than in many past polls – he is preferred on this count by 48% as against just 40% for Miliband.
ICM interviewed 3,650 adults aged 18+ online on 24-26th March.
The crucial bit from the polling chunk I posted, and why Cameron definitely didn't want this close to GE and head to head...even though he won, a decent number of voters say they might shift their vote to Ed.
If you get that 1-2 weeks before a GE, hard to get them back. With 8 weeks to go, you have time to pump the propaganda out.
Was the ICM poll of 1/3 tory, 1/3 Labour 1/3 neutral? If it is then this is a massive win for Cameron since pretty well all tory/ labour voters will be loyal to the leader. Cameron must have won the neutrals over 21:13 - or 70 - 30.
Given the fact that Tory-Labour are neck and neck, this is a resounding win for Cameron.
There was better news for Miliband when it comes to the crucial question of shifting votes: 56% of the sub-sample who said they might change their mind will now plump for Labour, as against just 30% for the Conservatives.
Clever tactic by Miliband though to say the things he most admired about Cameron were introducing gay marriage and protecting overseas aid, the 2 things rightwingers and Kippers most loathe him for!
Visually it was Dave 10 Ed 0 verbally ditto. I did think ED did better at the end(better than fecking awful), but I am the wrong person to ask because I just cannot bear to listen to him. It was just dreadful.
Was the ICM poll of 1/3 tory, 1/3 Labour 1/3 neutral? If it is then this is a massive win for Cameron since pretty well all tory/ labour voters will be loyal to the leader. Cameron must have won the neutrals over 21:13 - or 70 - 30.
Given the fact that Tory-Labour are neck and neck, this is a resounding win for Cameron.
ICM was a poll of those daft enough to watch - wonder what the VI of such a group was ?
The crucial bit from the polling chunk I posted, and why Cameron definitely didn't want this close to GE and head to head...even though he won, a decent number of voters say they might shift their vote to Ed.
If you get that 1-2 weeks before a GE, hard to get them back. With 8 weeks to go, you have time to pump the propaganda out.
You mean, show them the error of a rash judgement :-) ?
Comments
That was terrible by Miliband. Absolutely dreadful. The only bit he rallied was the second half of Paxo which was then totally undone by the 'off air' final question.
Cameron won it by light years.
Oh you mean among the politicians?
I thought Cameron edged it but about 7:5 rather than some kind of walk over.
Paxo
Other than that, what we really learned is that Dave versus Ed means we are all losers
Second...Paxman's bank manager....
The more they saw......isn't that par for the course. Miliband on the box, Labour down.
I'm going to be the dissenting voice and say that Paxman wasn't great either, especially with the groan-worthy personal attacks.
Not sure what they were watching, the only awesome performance was Paxman.
That's Etonian Idol Cameron ...., I think.
Score draw for me.
Overall Ed will have gained and Cameron will stay static.
Egg on face of Guardian journo who has been ramping up how impressive and well prepared Ed Miliband was throughout. What's that I hear....the delete key being rapidly pressed on the Guardian's journo's keyboard as they have to rewrite 100's of words of how Miliband wiped the floor with Cameron.
98 / 1 / 1
I put the 1's down to misclicks.
Guardian ICM snap poll gives Cameron a win: Cameron 54%, Miliband 46%
Paxman got the better of Ed early on in part because of Eds inability to cope with him, Cameron is better in that situation. Towards the end Ed had his moments against Paxman, he had a bad experience with some sunny uplands.
By definition as the opposition it is an easier it is easier to attack the record than it is for the incumbent to defend a 5 year record in which things are bound to go wrong.
The close shave should generate a panic, so he doesn't try and wing it next time and actually prepared properly.
Isn't that what's known as a 'Scottish victory" (© Alex Salmond)?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/mar/26/election-2015-david-cameron-ed-miliband-jeremy-paxman-live-updates#block-55148b5de4b0cbe13ce31ff3
Now we are on the spin from Guardian...
2) But, given Ed Miliband’s personal ratings before tonight, Miliband is the man who has outperformed his benchmark - quite significantly.
I think we should wait and see what the standard VI polls say. I don't think either are going to benefit from this experience.
Not the twiterrati which is voodoo but ICM poll.
Money going on tories.
Right, enough of this. Time for sack hitting.
Surprisingly Allegra on newsnight called it big win for Ed and showed why cammo not want debate ed....
Ed also benefit from going second so knew he'd get a q about what was good re dave. Audience deffo negative more to ed but then sound sympathy for him, as then backed up with panoramic asking him not off Mike if he was ok!
She certainly knows to toe the party line.
That is what Trevor Philips was talking about....
Just saying.
There was better news for Miliband when it comes to the crucial question of shifting votes: 56% of the sub-sample who said they might change their mind will now plump for Labour, as against just 30% for the Conservatives.
David Cameron retains his lead as best prime minister in this survey - but by a smaller margin than in many past polls – he is preferred on this count by 48% as against just 40% for Miliband.
Everyone does need to be paranoid about open mics in the next 6 weeks.
6 weeks... !
An instant Guardian/ICM poll found that David Cameron had narrowly “won” the contest with 54% saying that the PM came out on top once the don’t knows were excluded, compared with just 46% who felt that Miliband had the edge.
The sample of viewers, who were weighted to bring them in line with the broader population, were asked to put aside their party preference and concentrate only on what they heard during the programme, 46% felt that Cameron had the best arguments, as against 44% who said the same of Miliband. Cameron was also judged slightly more convincing – by 48% to 43% – and to have the more appealing personality, by 46% to 42%. He chalked up a clearer win on “actually answering the questions asked”, by 44% to 37%.
There was better news for Miliband when it comes to the crucial question of shifting votes: 56% of the sub-sample who said they might change their mind will now plump for Labour, as against just 30% for the Conservatives.
David Cameron retains his lead as best prime minister in this survey - but by a smaller margin than in many past polls – he is preferred on this count by 48% as against just 40% for Miliband.
ICM interviewed 3,650 adults aged 18+ online on 24-26th March.
If you get that 1-2 weeks before a GE, hard to get them back. With 8 weeks to go, you have time to pump the propaganda out.
Given the fact that Tory-Labour are neck and neck, this is a resounding win for Cameron.