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Cabinet celebrates the Budget ‘in the traditional manner’ http://t.co/YuqJjv7bKf pic.twitter.com/cQrQMZGOdb

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TheScreamingEagles

I'm expecting the post shamelessly political budget of all time.

Oh and first

JackW

First

After the disqualified cheat TSE.

david_herdson

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm expecting the post shamelessly political budget of all time.

Oh and first

Shamelessly political budgets are usually disastrous for those delivering them; they usually fall apart within 48 hours and sometimes (see G Brown) within 48 minutes.

Scott_P

off to a good start...

@IsabelHardman: Labour MP criticises a 'vacuous soundbite' at PMQs but unfortunately mis-quotes it

Polruan

Pulpstar said:

Whats Ed going to go on in PMQs ?

I can't actually think of a decent topic for him - NHS maybe ?

3 on debates, 3 attempting some kind of pre-emptive strike on predicted Budget announcement.

TheScreamingEagles

david_herdson said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm expecting the post shamelessly political budget of all time.

Oh and first

Shamelessly political budgets are usually disastrous for those delivering them; they usually fall apart within 48 hours and sometimes (see G Brown) within 48 minutes.

That's my fear.

I was looking at the polling throughout this parliament, and the 2012 budget was what really buggered the Tories.

Pong

FPT @tse


I wouldn't bet on Michael Green's career prospects at any odds. Trading bet or otherwise.

david_herdson

Pulpstar said:

Whats Ed going to go on in PMQs ?

I can't actually think of a decent topic for him - NHS maybe ?

It doesn't matter. No-one pays any attention to PMQs on Budget Day.

Pulpstar

TheScreamingEagles said:

david_herdson said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm expecting the post shamelessly political budget of all time.

Oh and first

Shamelessly political budgets are usually disastrous for those delivering them; they usually fall apart within 48 hours and sometimes (see G Brown) within 48 minutes.

That's my fear.

I was looking at the polling throughout this parliament, and the 2012 budget was what really buggered the Tories.

What was the reaction to that budget like on here ?

Polruan

TheScreamingEagles said:

david_herdson said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm expecting the post shamelessly political budget of all time.

Oh and first

Shamelessly political budgets are usually disastrous for those delivering them; they usually fall apart within 48 hours and sometimes (see G Brown) within 48 minutes.

That's my fear.

I was looking at the polling throughout this parliament, and the 2012 budget was what really buggered the Tories.

Well, many Tory supporters of this parish do keep confidently reminding us that Osborne's budgets can be gamechangers.

TheScreamingEagles

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

david_herdson said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm expecting the post shamelessly political budget of all time.

Oh and first

Shamelessly political budgets are usually disastrous for those delivering them; they usually fall apart within 48 hours and sometimes (see G Brown) within 48 minutes.

That's my fear.

I was looking at the polling throughout this parliament, and the 2012 budget was what really buggered the Tories.

What was the reaction to that budget like on here ?

I think you can't say we're all in it together and cut the higher rate of tax.

ThomasNashe

NHS it is (though sidetracked by lots of very unfunny quips about kitchens)

Grandiose

Polruan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

david_herdson said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm expecting the post shamelessly political budget of all time.

Oh and first

Shamelessly political budgets are usually disastrous for those delivering them; they usually fall apart within 48 hours and sometimes (see G Brown) within 48 minutes.

That's my fear.

I was looking at the polling throughout this parliament, and the 2012 budget was what really buggered the Tories.

Well, many Tory supporters of this parish do keep confidently reminding us that Osborne's budgets can be gamechangers.

As far as I'm concerned, the 2012 budget was the straw that broke the camel's back. At some point in the parliament, the emphasis was going to have to shift from Labour's problem to the Tories' (/the Coalition's) solution, about which the public were always going to be less favourable. It was simply the marker for that change.

TheScreamingEagles

Polruan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

david_herdson said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm expecting the post shamelessly political budget of all time.

Oh and first

Shamelessly political budgets are usually disastrous for those delivering them; they usually fall apart within 48 hours and sometimes (see G Brown) within 48 minutes.

That's my fear.

I was looking at the polling throughout this parliament, and the 2012 budget was what really buggered the Tories.

Well, many Tory supporters of this parish do keep confidently reminding us that Osborne's budgets can be gamechangers.

George Osborne has been responsible for two out of the three major sustained polling shifts in the last decade. (one in favour of the Tories, one in favour of Labour)

Morris_Dancer

Science: Terminator 2-inspired 3D printing process is created:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31918215

Looks rather cool.

JackW

A very combative PMQ's today.

Is there a general election in the wind ?? ...

TheScreamingEagles

Dave is really enjoying making jokes about Ed's kitchens.

DaemonBarber

listened to PMQs on radio.

Ed really came across as poorly.
Not that Dave came across much better mind.

Pulpstar

TheScreamingEagles said:

Polruan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

david_herdson said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm expecting the post shamelessly political budget of all time.

Oh and first

Shamelessly political budgets are usually disastrous for those delivering them; they usually fall apart within 48 hours and sometimes (see G Brown) within 48 minutes.

That's my fear.

I was looking at the polling throughout this parliament, and the 2012 budget was what really buggered the Tories.

Well, many Tory supporters of this parish do keep confidently reminding us that Osborne's budgets can be gamechangers.

George Osborne has been responsible for two out of the three major sustained polling shifts in the last decade. (one in favour of the Tories, one in favour of Labour)

I note looking back at that that George Galloway won the Bradford by election at the very height of Labour's polling. I'm on George.

Scott_P

@BBCAllegra: Angus Robertson, SNP leader in Commons grinning + pulling at suit pocket in ref to Miliband / Salmond pocket poster as PM raises SNP-Lab rel

TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/578166928717553664

CD13

Surely raising the tax allowance more than expected is must be odds-on?

Labour will complain it's a political budget anyway, so what's to lose?

Polruan

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/578166928717553664

Using that to fund abolition of IHT on primary residence would be a neat trick.

Dair

Second week in a row where they can't stop advertising the SNP as their greatest fear on both sides of the house.

Lovely.

NickPalmer

Interesting article, even if I don't agree with it all:

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2015/03/why-arent-the-tories-running-away-with-the-election/

stodge

Afternoon all

Before this ludicrous pointless piece of political anachronism and theatre enthralls us all there was an interesting piece in yesterday's City AM from that well-known left-winger Ryan Bourne:

http://www.cityam.com/211701/osborne-likes-think-unthinkable-now-he-should-abolish-budget

Pulpstar

@ThescreamingEagles I have no sound so let me know if I'm going to need to call the bank manager when he mentions tax 500 times

Pulpstar

Polruan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/578166928717553664

Using that to fund abolition of IHT on primary residence would be a neat trick.

That or extra council bands on high value homes. IHT is makework for lawyers and tax accountants. Quite sure you could get a revenue neutral thing going quite easily.

Carnyx

FPT

david_herdson said:

Carnyx said:

[snipped]

Yes, but it is difficult to handle the capital risk at that sort of age (70s and up) when people ought to be moving out of shares and into more liquid assets anyway, so inflation/interest remains an issue. And those products can be difficult to sell quickly, especially for an elderly person without his own computer. I've just had to help out an elderly relative who held a non-trivial chunk of his savings in an asset trust's shares in an ISA - it turned out to be impossible to sell them immediately; one had to instruct the ISA company in writing and then wait till the following Monday for them to actually do it; and they wouldn't accept any other instructions such as 'do not sell if below xp'. We were lucky that the market didn't tank in the week or so we were waiting.

The sort of products I was meaning were more like capital-protected bonds, which have a variable return based on the stock market but which guarantee the investment back (presumably the risk to the seller is sold on through market instruments somehow), such as these:

http://www.moneysupermarket.com/savings/structured-products/

Now, I grant you that you're locking your capital up for a fairly serious period of time in many of these, which won't be right for everyone and even for those who it is right in part, they'll no doubt want to keep some savings more liquid, but the basic premise stands that they can form part of a balanced savings portfolio for those with money put aside.

Ultimately, the whole question of savings usually comes back to the point that if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. People complaining about the lack of high returns need to recognise that they will only *ever* exist if they come with high risk because there is simply nothing that can reliably produce them otherwise.

Many thanks for that. I entirely agree with the conclusion!

Pulpstar

Danny must be enjoying his time on those green benches. Tic toc !

richardDodd

We should rename PMQ,S ..Milibashing...

[Deleted User]

This PMQs is interesting. There doesn't seem to be any issue that Labour can land punches on right now. The Tories have peaked at just the right time on all their deliverables - apart from polling results!

MarqueeMark

The youth unemployment stats really have changed massively under this Government. It makes it difficult for Labour MPs to gain any traction on unemployment - one of the areas they would once have expected to really be hammering the Government in the election campaign.

Pulpstar

Wolverhampton SW is a very very vulnerable marginal iirc.

Plato

I've only listened half the time - but I can't think of a moment when Labour seemed on the front foot.

Patrick said:

This PMQs is interesting. There doesn't seem to be any issue that Labour can land punches on right now. The Tories have peaked at just the right time on all their deliverables - apart from polling results!

Polruan

Pulpstar said:

Polruan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/578166928717553664

Using that to fund abolition of IHT on primary residence would be a neat trick.

That or extra council bands on high value homes. IHT is makework for lawyers and tax accountants. Quite sure you could get a revenue neutral thing going quite easily.

You could see a consultation on new council tax bands, but given the lead time of getting it done, it's hard to see even a chancellor with Osborne's taste for unfunded tax cuts claiming it could be quantified and implemented quickly enough to fund a cut in IHT before about 2020. Mechanically there are also issues as you'd have an increase in council revenues and a decrease in central government revenues, so would then have to adjust funding models to match the two up - not trivial. So CGT makes more sense.

That said, a consultation on council tax revaluation would be a high-quality trap for Labour, as it'll almost certainly end up being seen as too difficult/unpopular and have to be scrapped - wouldn't look good for a Labour government to abandon a project designed to tax the rich.

Pulpstar

What's Watson asking a question on :innocent face: ?

MarqueeMark

Pulpstar said:

Wolverhampton SW is a very very vulnerable marginal iirc.

Pulpstar said:

Wolverhampton SW is a very very vulnerable marginal iirc.

I really can't see any circumstances that the Tories hold that seat. 6,500 LibDems for Labour to steal. Would need a massive UKIP bite into Labour's vote here.

bigjohnowls

No mentions of tax in first minute

Its a disaster for Pulpstar

Pulpstar

Here we go !

Plato

Xlibris1 @Xlibris1
UK has seen the largest rise in employment of any G7 country; more young people have got into work than rest of the EU put together

MarqueeMark

"Britain is walking tall again" seems to be the tagline for this Budget.

Just to piss off John Bercow...

Pulpstar

bigjohnowls said:

No mentions of tax in first minute

Its a disaster for Pulpstar

Marathon not a sprint though :O

bigjohnowls

richardDodd said:

We should rename PMQ,S ..Milibashing...

I think it should be

Any Answers?

SimonStClare

Plato said:

Xlibris1 @Xlibris1
UK has seen the largest rise in employment of any G7 country; more young people have got into work than rest of the EU put together

If so, that is an astonishing statistic.

MarqueeMark

from austerity to prosperity....

Plato

LOL

MarqueeMark said:

"Britain is walking tall again" seems to be the tagline for this Budget.

Just to piss off John Bercow...

TGOHF

What a racket - who is in the chair ? Let the chap speak .

"Northern Powerhouse" - ching.

currystar

SimonStClare said:

Plato said:

Xlibris1 @Xlibris1
UK has seen the largest rise in employment of any G7 country; more young people have got into work than rest of the EU put together

If so, that is an astonishing statistic.

vote Labour and ruin it!!

Pulpstar

Was that an "Order, order" ?

DaemonBarber

choose life...

Alistair

Carnyx said:

FPT

david_herdson said:

Carnyx said:

[snipped]

Yes, but it is difficult to handle the capital risk at that sort of age (70s and up) when people ought to be moving out of shares and into more liquid assets anyway, so inflation/interest remains an issue. And those products can be difficult to sell quickly, especially for an elderly person without his own computer. I've just had to help out an elderly relative who held a non-trivial chunk of his savings in an asset trust's shares in an ISA - it turned out to be impossible to sell them immediately; one had to instruct the ISA company in writing and then wait till the following Monday for them to actually do it; and they wouldn't accept any other instructions such as 'do not sell if below xp'. We were lucky that the market didn't tank in the week or so we were waiting.

The sort of products I was meaning were more like capital-protected bonds, which have a variable return based on the stock market but which guarantee the investment back (presumably the risk to the seller is sold on through market instruments somehow), such as these:

http://www.moneysupermarket.com/savings/structured-products/

Now, I grant you that you're locking your capital up for a fairly serious period of time in many of these, which won't be right for everyone and even for those who it is right in part, they'll no doubt want to keep some savings more liquid, but the basic premise stands that they can form part of a balanced savings portfolio for those with money put aside.

Ultimately, the whole question of savings usually comes back to the point that if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. People complaining about the lack of high returns need to recognise that they will only *ever* exist if they come with high risk because there is simply nothing that can reliably produce them otherwise.

Many thanks for that. I entirely agree with the conclusion!

It is almost never worth purchasing a structured "capital protected" product from a bank or financial adviser. It is much better rolling your own by investing in a regular bank fixed term bond and adding on a index tracker on the side - that way you capture any and all rise in the market rather than being guillotined by the terms of a capital-protected product.

rcs1000

Plato said:

Xlibris1 @Xlibris1
UK has seen the largest rise in employment of any G7 country; more young people have got into work than rest of the EU put together

I think you need to choose your start and end dates carefully for that to work. Spain's employment has risen by 1.2m in the last two years for example.

Sunil_Prasannan

Still awaiting ICM data tables, but the part-ELBOW for polls so far this week excluding ICM puts Labour 0.8% ahead, compared with "0.0% growth" for week-ending 15th March!

Smarmeron

@SimonStClare
"If so, that is an astonishing statistic."

For a given definition of "employment" it probably has some validity.
The definition, and the differences, are part of the Tories problem.
But few on here are capable of noticing.

Sunil_Prasannan

When is the Budget being announced?

Casino_Royale

Strange the ST didn't poll support for inheritance tax cuts.

Plato

I'm feeling Leftie Pain right now. Lots of it.

Smarmeron said:

@SimonStClare
"If so, that is an astonishing statistic."

For a given definition of "employment" it probably has some validity.
The definition, and the differences, are part of the Tories problem.
But few on here are capable of noticing.

Richard_Nabavi

rcs1000 said:

Plato said:

Xlibris1 @Xlibris1
UK has seen the largest rise in employment of any G7 country; more young people have got into work than rest of the EU put together

I think you need to choose your start and end dates carefully for that to work. Spain's employment has risen by 1.2m in the last two years for example.

Spain isn't in the G7!

TGOHF

Still think whilst this is spiky rhetoric the budget is going to be a bit dull.

Pulpstar

Sunil_Prasannan said:

When is the Budget being announced?

Peak waffle ?

Plato

Well spotted!

Richard_Nabavi said:

rcs1000 said:

Plato said:

Xlibris1 @Xlibris1
UK has seen the largest rise in employment of any G7 country; more young people have got into work than rest of the EU put together

I think you need to choose your start and end dates carefully for that to work. Spain's employment has risen by 1.2m in the last two years for example.

Spain isn't in the G7!

Alanbrooke

Pulpstar said:

Wolverhampton SW is a very very vulnerable marginal iirc.

Oooh

I'm hoping to buy a factory there next month. I shall instruct the workforce accordingly :-)

Plato

What was that 1975 statistic??

TheScreamingEagles

YORKSHIRE!

rcs1000

Richard_Nabavi said:

rcs1000 said:

Plato said:

Xlibris1 @Xlibris1
UK has seen the largest rise in employment of any G7 country; more young people have got into work than rest of the EU put together

I think you need to choose your start and end dates carefully for that to work. Spain's employment has risen by 1.2m in the last two years for example.

Spain isn't in the G7!

You're right: I was conflating the first half of the claim with the second.

DaemonBarber

Smarmeron said:

@SimonStClare
"If so, that is an astonishing statistic."

For a given definition of "employment" it probably has some validity.
The definition, and the differences, are part of the Tories problem.
But few on here are capable of noticing.

being answered by GO just now

Yorkshire rules apparently

Plato

More than the WHOLE OF FRANCE just in Yorkshire. Blimey.

DaemonBarber said:

Smarmeron said:

@SimonStClare
"If so, that is an astonishing statistic."

For a given definition of "employment" it probably has some validity.
The definition, and the differences, are part of the Tories problem.
But few on here are capable of noticing.

being answered by GO just now

Yorkshire rules apparently

TheScreamingEagles

Alanbrooke said:

Pulpstar said:

Wolverhampton SW is a very very vulnerable marginal iirc.

Oooh

I'm hoping to buy a factory there next month. I shall instruct the workforce accordingly :-)

Well a former MP for Wolverhampton South West ended up sitting as an MP for the Ulster Unionists.

Just saying.

Smarmeron

@Plato
You feel no ones pain but your own Plato.

Pulpstar

TheScreamingEagles said:

YORKSHIRE!

I'm telling you now, the election will be decided by Pudsey.

Plato

Your pain is my pleasure. It really is. Along with your total lack of humour. :^ )

Smarmeron said:

@Plato
You feel no ones pain but your own Plato.

Richard_Nabavi

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

YORKSHIRE!

I'm telling you now, the election will be decided by Pudsey.

What, this little chap?

http://www.bbcchildreninneedshop.co.uk/pudsey-bear.html

TheScreamingEagles

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

YORKSHIRE!

I'm telling you now, the election will be decided by Pudsey.

I shall be campaigning in a slew of West Yorkshire seats.

Mark my words, a world of pain awaits Labour in West Yorkshire.

Floater

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm expecting the post shamelessly political budget of all time.

Oh and first

More so than the last Labour one with all its traps ?

Alanbrooke

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

Pulpstar said:

Wolverhampton SW is a very very vulnerable marginal iirc.

Oooh

I'm hoping to buy a factory there next month. I shall instruct the workforce accordingly :-)

Well a former MP for Wolverhampton South West ended up sitting as an MP for the Ulster Unionists.

Just saying.

Now you've jinxed the tread.

Isam will be posting Enoch Powell for the next 4 hours, thereby undermining my 24hr sponsored sledgeathon on Osborne.

Pulpstar

I'm looking at http://www.sportingindex.com/spread-betting/politics/british/mm4.uk.meeting.5077288/the-2015-budget can't quite believe they are all "0" so far, especially "minutes"

Plato

Oliver Cooper @OliverCooper
80% of jobs created since 2010 have been full-time and just 20% part-time. Under Labour, 46% of net new jobs were part-time. #Budget2015

DaemonBarber

Floater said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm expecting the post shamelessly political budget of all time.

Oh and first

More so than the last Labour one with all its traps ?

ooh, that's gotta hurt...

Sunil_Prasannan

Pulpstar said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

When is the Budget being announced?

Peak waffle ?

No access to TV right now!

MarqueeMark

Every metric really is moving in George's favour....

bigjohnowls

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britains-divided-decade-the-rich-are-64-richer-than-before-the-recessionwhile-the-poor-are-57-poorer-10097038.html

People are better off

TheScreamingEagles

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

Pulpstar said:

Wolverhampton SW is a very very vulnerable marginal iirc.

Oooh

I'm hoping to buy a factory there next month. I shall instruct the workforce accordingly :-)

Well a former MP for Wolverhampton South West ended up sitting as an MP for the Ulster Unionists.

Just saying.

Now you've jinxed the tread.

Isam will be posting Enoch Powell for the next 4 hours, thereby undermining my 24hr sponsored sledgeathon on Osborne.

As someone once said "Imagine my shock, that someone obsessed with race and religion moved to Northern Ireland to be happy"

DecrepitJohnL

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Pulpstar said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

When is the Budget being announced?

Peak waffle ?

No access to TV right now!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-31874987

FrancisUrquhart

Growth forecasts aren't stellar.

bigjohnowls

Steve Fisher retweeted
Fraser Nelson ‏@FraserNelson 2m2 minutes ago
Growth was good last year, will be okay in years to come. But overall? The slowest recovery in history #Budget2015

Prof Fisher says slowest recovery in history

TGOHF

Told you - dullsville.

Sunil_Prasannan

DecrepitJohnL said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Pulpstar said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

When is the Budget being announced?

Peak waffle ?

No access to TV right now!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-31874987

Didn't realise it was right after PMQs, thanks!

Polruan

MarqueeMark said:

Every metric really is moving in George's favour....

Every metric George has chosen to highlight is moving in George's favour....

JWisemann

Smarmeron said:

@Plato
You feel no ones pain but your own Plato.

I'm not sure she's even self-aware enough for that to be honest.

Plato

Robert Peston @Peston
Debt as share of GDP to start falling in 2015/16, a year earlier than expected #Budget2015

Casino_Royale

A new unionist pound coin. Nice, but unexpected!

TheScreamingEagles

Casino_Royale said:

A new unionist pound coin. Nice, but unexpected!

Should have been based on the Battle of Waterloo

Pulpstar

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

A new unionist pound coin. Nice, but unexpected!

Should have been based on the Battle of Waterloo

Sounds like a ploy to up the SNP vote to me

OH WAIT

bigjohnowls

National Debt was soaring in 2010

Now it has .......

Gone up significantly

Cyclefree

From Previous Thread (with apologies);-

Charles said:

Roger said:

After the last slew of polls I'm getting the distinct impression that there are just too many who share the left wing values of concern for the disadvantaged for the Tories to win however competently they run the economy.

There is nothing left wing about "concern for the disadvantaged"

I'm a Tory & take some fairly practical steps to help in the limited way that I can.

Well said. The idea that the Left has a monopoly over concern for the disadvantaged is nonsense on stilts and not borne out by evidence from history.

Polruan said:

Charles said:

Roger said:

After the last slew of polls I'm getting the distinct impression that there are just too many who share the left wing values of concern for the disadvantaged for the Tories to win however competently they run the economy.

There is nothing left wing about "concern for the disadvantaged"

I'm a Tory & take some fairly practical steps to help in the limited way that I can.

Charles, I don't think the point here is about individual actions and I hope that it would be an isolated view on the left that anyone more right wing is by definition a selfish bastard (though I suppose in this forum it's likely the extremes are over-represented, meaning that there could be more lefties holding that extreme view and more of the right who actually are selfish bastards).

It's more that left-wing politics can be characterised as responding to human suffering by trying to intervene directly and immediately to relieve it, whereas right-wing responses often focus more on "incentivising" those who are suffering to take steps themselves to address the problem, and managing the overall economy in a way that is intended to benefit all, including the disadvantaged, in the longer term.

....

The difference it seems to me is that the Left (or some of them) seem to think that the only way to respond to human suffering is by state intervention . And (a) that's simply not true; and (b) can rapidly lead to a belief in a large state as a value in itself irrespective of whether it achieves its intended purpose. It seems to me that that is the cul de sac into which the Left has got itself. It sees a large powerful state as an end in itself. The equivalent on the right is to want a small state almost regardless of what the effects might be.

Surely the better view is to have a state do those things which cannot be effectively done by people either indiviidually or collectively and do them really well, rather than do lots of things not very well or badly?

Cyclefree

Also - a thank you to Fat Steve for organising the PB drinks last night. A nice venue and nice to chat with some PB'ers I had not met and see again others.

Pulpstar

Will George commend the budget to the house though ?

That's the big unanswered question.

Perhaps he'll have second thoughts.

Plato

A surplus for first time in 18yrs?

TGOHF

Spending crashing to the days of penury and squalor of 2000.