Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » For those who think that political betting markets are pred

24

Comments

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    That it was The Times own Jenni 'I'm Godparent' Russell who caused this all via Twitter is just remarkably funny.

    I never understood why she was such a cheerleader in her articles about him - now I know. Epic fail for her to run to his defence and get it so wrong.

    She must be so *&^%$ about how it backfired.
    Floater said:

    Still amusing to see how badly the wheels have fallen off Ed's cunning stunt to appear a man of the people.

    I still haven't got my free owl yet, but looking forward to my second kitchen.

    Have Labour actually tried to salvage this cluster%%%%?

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    SeanT said:

    antifrank said:

    SeanT said:

    antifrank said:

    Could the pb Tories identify for me the section of the electorate that has to this point been loyally behind Ed "two kitchens" Miliband but which will now desert him?

    Surprisingly stupid remark.

    The Labour vote is weak. We know that. They are relying on reluctant half hearted prior supporters turning out to vote in May, mainly the White working class. Being reminded that the already-disliked Miliband is just as rich and out of touch as Cameron will not help motivate these people. At all.

    Two Kitchen Ed also hinders Labour's class war. It's hard to attack Tories for being privileged Bullingdonians when it's just been revealed the Labour leader has installed an induction hob for his servants quarters.

    But perhaps, earning £500k yourself, you miss the optics here.

    To most of Britain, Ed's life is a fantasyland of easy London wealth.
    Ed Miliband is no one's idea of a man of the people. This is not news.
    Nor is it news that Cameron is an old Etonian and ex member of Bullingdon who gives, yes, kitchen suppers. Yet he tries to avoid mentioning all this. Why? Because he knows it damages him.

    The next time Ed stands up in the Commons and bangs on about "Tory millionaires" he will be drowned out by scoffing remarks about his second kitchen.

    You can argue that all this stuff SHOULDN'T matter. Nonetheless it does.
    It matters - but only because Ed made it matter with his attacks on Cameron.

    He is a rancid little hypocrite and unfit to run a whelk stall.
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    edited March 2015

    chestnut said:

    Weren't the Lib Dems marvellous pre-election poll ratings largely built on the backs of the under 35s who subsequently didn't turn up?

    Who are that group polling for now?

    Anyone 25 or so in 2010 is now a thirty-something. With five years experience of austerity just as they were getting their homes together.
    Similarly a bright-eyed 20 year old student in 2010 is now a 25 year old post grad with a lower living standard than their older siblings.
    The demographic for whom I have the least sympathy is people who are now between about 28 and 40. These are the people who were old enough in 1997-2005 to vote for Blair, were warned accurately as to the consequences of doing so, but did so anyway.

    Would anyone today seriously dispute the accuracy of the Demon Eyes poster's portrayal of Blair? Probably very few. Even diehard Labourites would concede that Blair was downright evil. When the Tories attack the personality of the Labour leader, it pays to listen, because they are always right. It's not something to ignore because they would do that wouldn't they - because in fact they don't. They attacked Kinnock, Blair, and Brown along those lines; they did not attack Callaghan or Smith.

    That 28-40 cohort's current problems are therefore largely their own fault. Anyone from that generation who can't afford a house should be blaming Labour 1997-2010, and themselves for electing and re-electing the bums. Instead they rather often blame the generation that is now retired, that is likeliest to have seen through Blair, and whose houses Generation Rent can't afford because they've been bid up by other members of Generation Rent.

    I'd need to see quite a bit more repentance and contrition from that demographic before I'd feel able to feel sorry for them.
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456

    Excellent response by Miliband to a wide range of questions on the BBC 3 programme, very impressive indeed and bodes well for the debates.Shame some people saw only one question being answered. Lots of people running scared this morning, headless chickens come to mind.The polls are not pointing to a Tory victory despite the attempts of the Tory media.
    The reality of life in Tory Britain is the only campaign tool that will work for Labour; zero hours, bedroom tax , privatisation, cuts, closure of public services etc. etc.

    are you gabble?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,598
    Curious YouGov poll suggesting voters want to nationalise nearly everything - except
    banks:

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/03/12/nationalisation-ideology-beats-pragmatism/

    There's also a VI in there - a tie.

    SeanT's view that Labour depends mainly on half-hearted low-income voters is dated if it was ever true. Half-hearted low-income voters simply don't vote, by and large, and haven't done for some time, though they may be tempted by UKIP. It's a challenge for parties to remain keen to help people who don't vote - for instance, we remain very enthusiastic about Sure Start, but I meet plenty of Sure Start parents who wouldn't dream of voting. In the USA, the Democrats have pretty much given up trying to appeal to very poor voters and have switched to groups like teachers who are well-organised and inclined to vote. The Tory equivalent here is wealthy pensioners, hence the preoccupation with pension pot draw-down.
  • One place the Lib Dems are not winning back is Chesterfield. Another case of males bullying females inside the Lib Dem party. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/12/former-mp-paul-holmes-reprimanded-allegedly-bullying-candidate
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    edited March 2015
    It is a mistake by Mike and some commentators to look at the eve of poll Sporting Index Spreads from 2010 and compare them to the actual result . Look at the spreads in March 2010 before distorted by the Cleggasm . The number of LD seats was pretty much spot on , Conservatives were way too high and Labour too low .
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    OT For fans of Latin music - I must recommend the OST for Dexter - it's epic. I love the series, but the soundtrack is something special. I used to be sniffy about OSTs, but I've been converted and now search them out. youtube.com/watch?v=WtVkvcMgdxs
  • Surprisingly, despite recent evidence in the polls showing a modest shift to the Tories over recent days, in his latest projection this morning, Stephen Fisher continues to have the two major parties locked together with each on 33%, with the LibDems on an unchanged 8%.
    On this basis, he has the Tories winning 285 seats (down 1 on last week), Labour winning 279 seats (+1), with the Yellow team languishing on an unchanged 22 seats ..... yet another "denier" it would seem!
    He calculates a hung Parliament as being an 86% probability.
  • TGOHF said:

    John Rentoul @JohnRentoul · 30m 30 minutes ago

    EdM knows what it's like not to know where your next meal is coming from.

    **** ROFL ****
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,741
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Here's the link to the intro piece by Nate Silver confifming 538.com's coverage of the British GE, involving an interview with a colleague:
    http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/uk-election-forecast/
    As will be seen from the piece, the good people of Skegness are set to be graced by a visit by the aforesaid Nathaniel.

    I thought he tried already in 2010 and got it woefully wrong?
    538.com forecast 2010 and got it wildly, completely wrong.

    That said, I think his 24 seat LibDem prediction looks too high. Unless the LibDems crawl back into double digits, in which case it might be right.

    He is only forecasting 30 or so Lib Dem deposit losses though. Think of the consequences of that for the moment.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Excellent performance by Ed Miliband on BBC's Free Speech reaffirms why spineless Cameron won't get in the ring with him as Ed's best hits are always the live gigs.
    Meanwhile the 8/9 DUP troops are clearly aligning themselves with the Tories as expected so the Orange Order can be added with the Orange bookers to the Tory total.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Financier said:

    Charles said:

    Financier said:

    R4 Today - Quoting EdM that if PM he would instruct (via OfGem) all energy suppliers to cut their prices.

    Hm: AFAIK, there is no obligation for an energy supplier to supply energy to clients If it is unprofitable for them to continue in business, then they can either export their energy to a client/country who will pay the economic price or shut down plants.

    Also many of the UK's energy suppliers are owned by non-UK companies - would EdM have a duff up with Hollande? (ten 3 minute rounds in the Bois de Boulogne - or just pistols at dawn?)

    Of course EdM could always nationalise the UK energy generation and supply - of course he would have to pay the global price for gas and oil imports - or would he just use a HMG subsidy and so rapidly grow the deficit and debt - and so the interest rate on UK paper would rise and so increasing the deficit and debt even more.

    No matter he did teach economics at Harvard - all theory of course.

    Wasn't he just a post grad who gave a couple of lectures and marked some papers?

    Not quite up there with IDS muddling up "in" and "at" in relationship to Perugia, but definitely deliberately misleading
    According to Wiki:

    "On 25 July 2002, it was announced that Miliband would take a 12-month unpaid sabbatical from the Treasury to be a visiting scholar at the Centre for European Studies of Harvard University for two semesters.[22] He spent his time at Harvard teaching economics,[23] and stayed there after September 2003 for an additional semester teaching a course titled "What's Left? The Politics of Social Justice"

    He was after my time there, but found that Harvard did teach a lot of theoretical theory.
    So he gave 2 lectures a week for 8 weeks.

    I'm going with "misleading"
  • Curious YouGov poll suggesting voters want to nationalise nearly everything - except
    banks:

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/03/12/nationalisation-ideology-beats-pragmatism/

    There's also a VI in there - a tie.

    SeanT's view that Labour depends mainly on half-hearted low-income voters is dated if it was ever true. Half-hearted low-income voters simply don't vote, by and large, and haven't done for some time, though they may be tempted by UKIP. It's a challenge for parties to remain keen to help people who don't vote - for instance, we remain very enthusiastic about Sure Start, but I meet plenty of Sure Start parents who wouldn't dream of voting. In the USA, the Democrats have pretty much given up trying to appeal to very poor voters and have switched to groups like teachers who are well-organised and inclined to vote. The Tory equivalent here is wealthy pensioners, hence the preoccupation with pension pot draw-down.

    It's not a tie, it had the Tories 2% ahead.

    Was merely the supplementaries asked as part of this poll.

    Note, the fieldwork dates, samples size and unweighted numbers are exactly the same

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/zqp5n8yspz/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-100315.pdf
  • So what you're saying Mike is the spreads last time overestimated the opposition and underestimated the government.

    Definitely can see that happening this time.
  • Alerted to a below par Charlie Kennedy on QT I have now looked at some of it and have to say that if the LD party really cared for him he should not be standing again. He needs a different way of life.
    http://order-order.com/2015/03/13/bbc-slammed-over-charles-kennedy-question-time-appearance/
    Very sad, but they even have a song about him. Mocking him.
    Speed bonnie boat, Like a hack on the make;
    Back to his seat on Skye.
    Carry the lad that was born to be King, Back to the seat on Skye
    Where is the man? Down in the bar, Loudly the Whips pro-clai-aim
    Out on the town, Out of his head, Charlie is pissed again
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    SeanT said:

    antifrank said:

    SeanT said:

    antifrank said:

    Could the pb Tories identify for me the section of the electorate that has to this point been loyally behind Ed "two kitchens" Miliband but which will now desert him?

    Surprisingly stupid remark.

    The Labour vote is weak. We know that. They are relying on reluctant half hearted prior supporters turning out to vote in May, mainly the White working class. Being reminded that the already-disliked Miliband is just as rich and out of touch as Cameron will not help motivate these people. At all.

    Two Kitchen Ed also hinders Labour's class war. It's hard to attack Tories for being privileged Bullingdonians when it's just been revealed the Labour leader has installed an induction hob for his servants quarters.

    But perhaps, earning £500k yourself, you miss the optics here.

    To most of Britain, Ed's life is a fantasyland of easy London wealth.
    Ed Miliband is no one's idea of a man of the people. This is not news.
    Nor is it news that Cameron is an old Etonian and ex member of Bullingdon who gives, yes, kitchen suppers. Yet he tries to avoid mentioning all this. Why? Because he knows it damages him.

    The next time Ed stands up in the Commons and bangs on about "Tory millionaires" he will be drowned out by scoffing remarks about his second kitchen.

    You can argue that all this stuff SHOULDN'T matter. Nonetheless it does.
    Actually, I think this stuff should matter (and I do find it very funny). We have a political class that is utterly divorced from the realities of everyday life. They deserve all the mockery that they get when the public veneer peels away.

    But by and large, this will either go unnoticed or simply confirm the prejudices of those who do notice. It won't change minds.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,741
    Gold cup: No idea, but Coral's 11-2 offer was nice to take on Conti. Laid it off on Betfair and put a whole £1 on CONEYGREE.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302
    "Admitting acting in a racially aggravated manner. Blood swore at police officers and called them "Jock". As part of the order he will be supervised for 18 months and must carry out 160 hours of unpaid work. He was also given a three year football banning order."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-31856341

    Imagine what Lord Braxfield would do with these laws.
  • frpenkridgefrpenkridge Posts: 670
    Financier said:

    Re: EdM's interviews on BBC3 yesterday.

    Only managed to see one question, when a bright young lady asked him 'would not Labour be in a better position if your brother was the Labour Leader.'

    Never have I seen a man so unprepared for one of the most obvious questions that may arise.
    He jerked back in his chair, opened his eyes in surprise (probably that anyone would dare to ask him that question - or that it had not been moderated out) and started to mumble and waffle.

    Both his lack of ability for quick thinking and his lack of preparedness would leave the UK with a PM that the world (and certainly the EU and Brussels) would laugh at.

    He should have said, "I don't have to answer that. You're not my mother."

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Excellent performance by Ed Miliband on BBC's Free Speech reaffirms why spineless Cameron won't get in the ring with him as Ed's best hits are always the live gigs.

    Last year's conference address is evidence against the proposition.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Times Scotland poll

    Voter retention from 2010 (to SNP)
    Con: 76 (13)
    Lab: 48 (41)
    LibD: 14 (36, 29 to Lab, 12 to Con)
  • On the subject of Soubry. If she switched to her politically more natural home of the Lib Dems , they would at least get one fierce woman who would sort out the males in the party that dared transgress with the females. This is the sort of Leader they really need at this time.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,133
    Miss Plato, some videogame soundtracks are great. An old post I made has a few good examples:
    http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/game-music.html
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,741

    So what you're saying Mike is the spreads last time overestimated the opposition and underestimated the government.

    Definitely can see that happening this time.

    The spreads underestimated Labour who were the Gov't, but whether this is because the spreads tend to underestimate the Gov't or underestimate Labour is not knowable.

    Particularly with a single data point.
  • I also have two kitchens.

    Do I need to join the Labour Party?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,872

    Surprisingly, despite recent evidence in the polls showing a modest shift to the Tories over recent days, in his latest projection this morning, Stephen Fisher continues to have the two major parties locked together with each on 33%, with the LibDems on an unchanged 8%.
    On this basis, he has the Tories winning 285 seats (down 1 on last week), Labour winning 279 seats (+1), with the Yellow team languishing on an unchanged 22 seats ..... yet another "denier" it would seem!
    He calculates a hung Parliament as being an 86% probability.

    I imagine that the UKPR average will have the parties tied on 33 or 34%, due to rounding. The Conservatives are ahead this week, but the results for the previous two weeks will be given some weighting.

  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801

    chestnut said:

    Weren't the Lib Dems marvellous pre-election poll ratings largely built on the backs of the under 35s who subsequently didn't turn up?

    Who are that group polling for now?

    Anyone 25 or so in 2010 is now a thirty-something. With five years experience of austerity just as they were getting their homes together.
    Similarly a bright-eyed 20 year old student in 2010 is now a 25 year old post grad with a lower living standard than their older siblings.
    The demographic for whom I have the least sympathy is people who are now between about 28 and 40. These are the people who were old enough in 1997-2005 to vote for Blair, were warned accurately as to the consequences of doing so, but did so anyway.

    Would anyone today seriously dispute the accuracy of the Demon Eyes poster's portrayal of Blair? Probably very few. Even diehard Labourites would concede that Blair was downright evil. When the Tories attack the personality of the Labour leader, it pays to listen, because they are always right. It's not something to ignore because they would do that wouldn't they - because in fact they don't. They attacked Kinnock, Blair, and Brown along those lines; they did not attack Callaghan or Smith.

    That 28-40 cohort's current problems are therefore largely their own fault. Anyone from that generation who can't afford a house should be blaming Labour 1997-2010, and themselves for electing and re-electing the bums. Instead they rather often blame the generation that is now retired, that is likeliest to have seen through Blair, and whose houses Generation Rent can't afford because they've been bid up by other members of Generation Rent.

    I'd need to see quite a bit more repentance and contrition from that demographic before I'd feel able to feel sorry for them.
    Blair was a baby boomers' phenomenon.
  • SMukesh said:

    The Tories had a 10 point lead over Labour in England in 2010.As a rule of thumb,they are unlikely to be close to anywhere that lead this time around.Statistically this means they will start losing seats in England to Labour.I suspect Labour will do relatively well in the Northern and Metropolitan areas and Tories relatively well in SE and the shires like they always do.Are Tories able to pick off seats from the Libs in the SW might be a key question?

    Surely the Tories' lead over Labour in England at the 2010 GE was 11.4% as OGH has reminded us again and again and again, etc. Do try to pay attention.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    antifrank said:

    Ed Miliband is no one's idea of a man of the people. This is not news.

    Nonetheless in the polls he scores much better than Cameron on questions such as being 'Out of touch with ordinary people', for example in this poll:

    https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3450/Labour-are-the-most-popular-party-but-their-leader-lags-behind.aspx

    Therefore there is some ground he can lose here.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,741

    chestnut said:

    Weren't the Lib Dems marvellous pre-election poll ratings largely built on the backs of the under 35s who subsequently didn't turn up?

    Who are that group polling for now?

    Anyone 25 or so in 2010 is now a thirty-something. With five years experience of austerity just as they were getting their homes together.
    Similarly a bright-eyed 20 year old student in 2010 is now a 25 year old post grad with a lower living standard than their older siblings.
    The demographic for whom I have the least sympathy is people who are now between about 28 and 40. These are the people who were old enough in 1997-2005 to vote for Blair, were warned accurately as to the consequences of doing so, but did so anyway.

    Would anyone today seriously dispute the accuracy of the Demon Eyes poster's portrayal of Blair? Probably very few. Even diehard Labourites would concede that Blair was downright evil. When the Tories attack the personality of the Labour leader, it pays to listen, because they are always right. It's not something to ignore because they would do that wouldn't they - because in fact they don't. They attacked Kinnock, Blair, and Brown along those lines; they did not attack Callaghan or Smith.

    That 28-40 cohort's current problems are therefore largely their own fault. Anyone from that generation who can't afford a house should be blaming Labour 1997-2010, and themselves for electing and re-electing the bums. Instead they rather often blame the generation that is now retired, that is likeliest to have seen through Blair, and whose houses Generation Rent can't afford because they've been bid up by other members of Generation Rent.

    I'd need to see quite a bit more repentance and contrition from that demographic before I'd feel able to feel sorry for them.
    Thanks for the analysis but some of us never voted for Blair. Also 28 year olds in 1997 couldn't vote :P
  • DavidL said:

    To be fair, the Tory seat spreads weren't too far off.

    What that tells me is the (rarely mentioned) truth that Labour actually did very well in GE2010, given the hopeless position they were in, and fought a very strong rearguard action.

    Impressive when you consider they "should" have lost a further 40 seats. ~20 or so to the Lib Dem surge that never was, yes, but also another 20 to the Tories.

    Rightly or wrongly I ascribe that to Mandleson who organised a very effective campaign and persuaded huge numbers of public sector workers in particular that they would be getting their P45s by the end of the week if the Tories got in and their pensions would probably be cancelled for good measure. He scared a lot of people and somehow got away with never spelling out what Labour would do instead.
    It is that same fear factor which worked so well for them in 2010 that will work so badly against an Ed Miliband-led Labour in 2015. The economy is moving along nicely. Those P45's never materialised in the threatened millions. All of Labour's calls on the economy since 2010 have been doom-mongering. And Ed, the tax-avoiding millionaire living in a mansion, has the albatross of hypocrisy hung around his neck every time he tries to open up an attack line.

    Labour 2015. Why would you take the risk?

    Mr. Bond, not sure I buy that [Miliband being observant, not the two kitchens for observant Jews bit].

    If he were observant, he wouldn't eat bacon sarnies or describe himself as an atheist, surely?

    [Mind you, if he were Jewish in a religious sense that would at least make his comment on being the first Jewish PM make sense. If he *is* an atheist, then he wouldn't be, as the first ethnically Jewish PM was Disraeli].

    It makes sense if he's a cynical hypocrite. What do you think, possibility?

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Financier said:

    R4 Today - Quoting EdM that if PM he would instruct (via OfGem) all energy suppliers to cut their prices.

    The big news will be a request from 'OfKitch' instructing interior design businesses to cut the prices of hand made wall units, and second cookers.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Scotland:

    Doing well - net (among VI)
    Cameron: -36 (+87)
    Miliband: -53 (+15)

    Sturgeon: +33 (+94)
    Murphy: -25 (+26)

    So the only consolation for Murphy is his ratings aren't quite as bad as Ed's.....

    Party united - net (among VI)
    Labour: -48 (+11)
    SNP: +57 (+91)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,341

    chestnut said:

    Weren't the Lib Dems marvellous pre-election poll ratings largely built on the backs of the under 35s who subsequently didn't turn up?

    Who are that group polling for now?

    Anyone 25 or so in 2010 is now a thirty-something. With five years experience of austerity just as they were getting their homes together.
    Similarly a bright-eyed 20 year old student in 2010 is now a 25 year old post grad with a lower living standard than their older siblings.
    The demographic for whom I have the least sympathy is people who are now between about 28 and 40. These are the people who were old enough in 1997-2005 to vote for Blair, were warned accurately as to the consequences of doing so, but did so anyway.

    Would anyone today seriously dispute the accuracy of the Demon Eyes poster's portrayal of Blair? Probably very few. Even diehard Labourites would concede that Blair was downright evil. When the Tories attack the personality of the Labour leader, it pays to listen, because they are always right. It's not something to ignore because they would do that wouldn't they - because in fact they don't. They attacked Kinnock, Blair, and Brown along those lines; they did not attack Callaghan or Smith.

    That 28-40 cohort's current problems are therefore largely their own fault. Anyone from that generation who can't afford a house should be blaming Labour 1997-2010, and themselves for electing and re-electing the bums. Instead they rather often blame the generation that is now retired, that is likeliest to have seen through Blair, and whose houses Generation Rent can't afford because they've been bid up by other members of Generation Rent.

    I'd need to see quite a bit more repentance and contrition from that demographic before I'd feel able to feel sorry for them.
    The problem is the Tories have continued to support the stupid house prices with help to buy.

  • Pulpstar said:

    So what you're saying Mike is the spreads last time overestimated the opposition and underestimated the government.

    Definitely can see that happening this time.

    The spreads underestimated Labour who were the Gov't, but whether this is because the spreads tend to underestimate the Gov't or underestimate Labour is not knowable.

    Particularly with a single data point.
    Let's have a look at the spreads a few days before the 2005 election

    Labour spreads: IG Index 364-368: Sporting Index 362-366: Spreadfair 364.6- 366.2

    Tory spreads: IG Index 184-188: Sporting Index 184-188: Spreadfair 186-189

    Lib Dem spreads: IG Index 64-67: Sporting Index 65-67: Spreadfair 65.1-66.8

    Lab and Lib Dems overstated

    Con underestimated.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited March 2015
    SeanT said:

    antifrank said:

    SeanT said:

    antifrank said:

    Could the pb Tories identify for me the section of the electorate that has to this point been loyally behind Ed "two kitchens" Miliband but which will now desert him?

    Surprisingly stupid remark.

    The Labour vote is weak. We know that. They are relying on reluctant half hearted prior supporters turning out to vote in May, mainly the White working class. Being reminded that the already-disliked Miliband is just as rich and out of touch as Cameron will not help motivate these people. At all.

    Two Kitchen Ed also hinders Labour's class war. It's hard to attack Tories for being privileged Bullingdonians when it's just been revealed the Labour leader has installed an induction hob for his servants quarters.

    But perhaps, earning £500k yourself, you miss the optics here.

    To most of Britain, Ed's life is a fantasyland of easy London wealth.
    Ed Miliband is no one's idea of a man of the people. This is not news.
    Nor is it news that Cameron is an old Etonian and ex member of Bullingdon who gives, yes, kitchen suppers. Yet he tries to avoid mentioning all this. Why? Because he knows it damages him.

    The next time Ed stands up in the Commons and bangs on about "Tory millionaires" he will be drowned out by scoffing remarks about his second kitchen.

    You can argue that all this stuff SHOULDN'T matter. Nonetheless it does.
    The big difference being that Tory PMs are expected to be rich and privileged, that's already priced in. Labour PM's are supposed to be son's of the soil and tribunes of the people, not rich hypocrites.

    Incidentally it doesn't really matter why he has a second kitchen, even if for religious purposes, there was clearly an intent to showcase the down-market one, it would be a bit embarrassing if the other turned out to me some £100k Bulthaup confection.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,354
    kjohnw said:

    Excellent response by Miliband to a wide range of questions on the BBC 3 programme, very impressive indeed and bodes well for the debates.Shame some people saw only one question being answered. Lots of people running scared this morning, headless chickens come to mind.The polls are not pointing to a Tory victory despite the attempts of the Tory media.
    The reality of life in Tory Britain is the only campaign tool that will work for Labour; zero hours, bedroom tax , privatisation, cuts, closure of public services etc. etc.

    are you gabble?
    Does gabble still have a computer?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,729
    edited March 2015
    kjohnw said:

    Excellent response by Miliband to a wide range of questions on the BBC 3 programme, very impressive indeed and bodes well for the debates.Shame some people saw only one question being answered. Lots of people running scared this morning, headless chickens come to mind.The polls are not pointing to a Tory victory despite the attempts of the Tory media.
    The reality of life in Tory Britain is the only campaign tool that will work for Labour; zero hours, bedroom tax , privatisation, cuts, closure of public services etc. etc.

    are you gabble?
    Gabble could be funny.

    His rich as creases mistake was soooo funny.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,741

    Pulpstar said:

    So what you're saying Mike is the spreads last time overestimated the opposition and underestimated the government.

    Definitely can see that happening this time.

    The spreads underestimated Labour who were the Gov't, but whether this is because the spreads tend to underestimate the Gov't or underestimate Labour is not knowable.

    Particularly with a single data point.
    Let's have a look at the spreads a few days before the 2005 election

    Labour spreads: IG Index 364-368: Sporting Index 362-366: Spreadfair 364.6- 366.2

    Tory spreads: IG Index 184-188: Sporting Index 184-188: Spreadfair 186-189

    Lib Dem spreads: IG Index 64-67: Sporting Index 65-67: Spreadfair 65.1-66.8

    Lab and Lib Dems overstated

    Con underestimated.
    So 2010

    Labour understated
    Conservative ~ right
    Gov't understated

    2005

    Labour overstated
    Tories understated
    Gov't overstated

    Clear as mud :)
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    tlg86 said:

    chestnut said:

    Weren't the Lib Dems marvellous pre-election poll ratings largely built on the backs of the under 35s who subsequently didn't turn up?

    Who are that group polling for now?

    Anyone 25 or so in 2010 is now a thirty-something. With five years experience of austerity just as they were getting their homes together.
    Similarly a bright-eyed 20 year old student in 2010 is now a 25 year old post grad with a lower living standard than their older siblings.
    The demographic for whom I have the least sympathy is people who are now between about 28 and 40. These are the people who were old enough in 1997-2005 to vote for Blair, were warned accurately as to the consequences of doing so, but did so anyway.

    Would anyone today seriously dispute the accuracy of the Demon Eyes poster's portrayal of Blair? Probably very few. Even diehard Labourites would concede that Blair was downright evil. When the Tories attack the personality of the Labour leader, it pays to listen, because they are always right. It's not something to ignore because they would do that wouldn't they - because in fact they don't. They attacked Kinnock, Blair, and Brown along those lines; they did not attack Callaghan or Smith.

    That 28-40 cohort's current problems are therefore largely their own fault. Anyone from that generation who can't afford a house should be blaming Labour 1997-2010, and themselves for electing and re-electing the bums. Instead they rather often blame the generation that is now retired, that is likeliest to have seen through Blair, and whose houses Generation Rent can't afford because they've been bid up by other members of Generation Rent.

    I'd need to see quite a bit more repentance and contrition from that demographic before I'd feel able to feel sorry for them.
    The problem is the Tories have continued to support the stupid house prices with help to buy.

    True as far as it goes. But causing house prices to drop and leaving million of middle class people in negative equity is a vote loser like no other, especially for the Conservatives.

  • kjohnw said:

    Excellent response by Miliband to a wide range of questions on the BBC 3 programme, very impressive indeed and bodes well for the debates.Shame some people saw only one question being answered. Lots of people running scared this morning, headless chickens come to mind.The polls are not pointing to a Tory victory despite the attempts of the Tory media.
    The reality of life in Tory Britain is the only campaign tool that will work for Labour; zero hours, bedroom tax , privatisation, cuts, closure of public services etc. etc.

    are you gabble?
    Does gabble still have a computer?
    Do they allow them inside that institution?
  • SeanT said:

    antifrank said:

    Could the pb Tories identify for me the section of the electorate that has to this point been loyally behind Ed "two kitchens" Miliband but which will now desert him?

    Surprisingly stupid remark.

    The Labour vote is weak. We know that. They are relying on reluctant half hearted prior supporters turning out to vote in May, mainly the White working class. Being reminded that the already-disliked Miliband is just as rich and out of touch as Cameron will not help motivate these people. At all.

    Two Kitchen Ed also hinders Labour's class war. It's hard to attack Tories for being privileged Bullingdonians when it's just been revealed the Labour leader has installed an induction hob for his servants quarters.

    But perhaps, earning £500k yourself, you miss the optics here.

    To most of Britain, Ed's life is a fantasyland of easy London wealth.
    Pulpstar said:

    chestnut said:

    Weren't the Lib Dems marvellous pre-election poll ratings largely built on the backs of the under 35s who subsequently didn't turn up?

    Who are that group polling for now?

    Anyone 25 or so in 2010 is now a thirty-something. With five years experience of austerity just as they were getting their homes together.
    Similarly a bright-eyed 20 year old student in 2010 is now a 25 year old post grad with a lower living standard than their older siblings.
    The demographic for whom I have the least sympathy is people who are now between about 28 and 40. These are the people who were old enough in 1997-2005 to vote for Blair, were warned accurately as to the consequences of doing so, but did so anyway.

    That 28-40 cohort's current problems are therefore largely their own fault. Anyone from that generation who can't afford a house should be blaming Labour 1997-2010, and themselves for electing and re-electing the bums. Instead they rather often blame the generation that is now retired, that is likeliest to have seen through Blair, and whose houses Generation Rent can't afford because they've been bid up by other members of Generation Rent.

    I'd need to see quite a bit more repentance and contrition from that demographic before I'd feel able to feel sorry for them.
    Thanks for the analysis but some of us never voted for Blair. Also 28 year olds in 1997 couldn't vote :P
    If you're 28 now you could have voted for him in 2005. The must culpable are those who did so in 1997, which isn't all 36-year olds of course. But I do always wonder, when I hear someone of that vintage bellyaching about house prices, what they actually did to stop it all.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,872

    kjohnw said:

    Excellent response by Miliband to a wide range of questions on the BBC 3 programme, very impressive indeed and bodes well for the debates.Shame some people saw only one question being answered. Lots of people running scared this morning, headless chickens come to mind.The polls are not pointing to a Tory victory despite the attempts of the Tory media.
    The reality of life in Tory Britain is the only campaign tool that will work for Labour; zero hours, bedroom tax , privatisation, cuts, closure of public services etc. etc.

    are you gabble?
    Gabble could be funny.

    His rich as creases mistake was soooo funny.
    Wasn't he Denis MacShane?
  • frpenkridgefrpenkridge Posts: 670
    A. Everybody wants MPs who have experience of working.
    B. Nobody wants an MP who is rich.
    C. Therefore we all want an MP who worked, but wasn't very good at it.
  • Pulpstar said:

    So what you're saying Mike is the spreads last time overestimated the opposition and underestimated the government.

    Definitely can see that happening this time.

    The spreads underestimated Labour who were the Gov't, but whether this is because the spreads tend to underestimate the Gov't or underestimate Labour is not knowable.

    Particularly with a single data point.
    Let's have a look at the spreads a few days before the 2005 election
    Labour spreads: IG Index 364-368: Sporting Index 362-366: Spreadfair 364.6- 366.2
    Tory spreads: IG Index 184-188: Sporting Index 184-188: Spreadfair 186-189
    Lib Dem spreads: IG Index 64-67: Sporting Index 65-67: Spreadfair 65.1-66.8
    Lab and Lib Dems overstated Con underestimated.
    So two elections and the one consistent rule is that the Lib Dems are always over stated?
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited March 2015
    Indigo said:

    SeanT said:

    antifrank said:

    SeanT said:

    antifrank said:

    Could the pb Tories identify for me the section of the electorate that has to this point been loyally behind Ed "two kitchens" Miliband but which will now desert him?

    Surprisingly stupid remark.

    The Labour vote is weak. We know that. They are relying on reluctant half hearted prior supporters turning out to vote in May, mainly the White working class. Being reminded that the already-disliked Miliband is just as rich and out of touch as Cameron will not help motivate these people. At all.

    Two Kitchen Ed also hinders Labour's class war. It's hard to attack Tories for being privileged Bullingdonians when it's just been revealed the Labour leader has installed an induction hob for his servants quarters.

    But perhaps, earning £500k yourself, you miss the optics here.

    To most of Britain, Ed's life is a fantasyland of easy London wealth.
    Ed Miliband is no one's idea of a man of the people. This is not news.
    Nor is it news that Cameron is an old Etonian and ex member of Bullingdon who gives, yes, kitchen suppers. Yet he tries to avoid mentioning all this. Why? Because he knows it damages him.

    The next time Ed stands up in the Commons and bangs on about "Tory millionaires" he will be drowned out by scoffing remarks about his second kitchen.

    You can argue that all this stuff SHOULDN'T matter. Nonetheless it does.

    Incidentally it doesn't really matter why he has a second kitchen, even if for religious purposes, there was clearly an intent to showcase the down-market one, it would be a bit embarrassing if the other turned out to me some £100k Bulthaup confection.
    For 'religious purposes'? Presumably that's one for bacon, and the other for Kosher.

    As you say, the 'real kitchen' will be a slick interior designed number, perfect for a £2 million Dartmouth Park mansion.

    (No doubt there will be some spin doctor waffle about it already being in the house when they bought it, brushing over the fact that the house cost well over 10 times the national average, and would be unaffordable for 99% of the population).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,741

    Scotland:

    Doing well - net (among VI)
    Cameron: -36 (+87)
    Miliband: -53 (+15)

    Sturgeon: +33 (+94)
    Murphy: -25 (+26)

    So the only consolation for Murphy is his ratings aren't quite as bad as Ed's.....

    Party united - net (among VI)
    Labour: -48 (+11)
    SNP: +57 (+91)

    +33 must be pretty good for Sturgeon on a pseudo (I say this as she can't become PM...) Lebo-Norpoth
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited March 2015
    On topic: you could draw various conclusions, most of them erroneous, from the discrepancy between the spreads and the actual result. One key point, as Mark Senior suggests, was the massive uncertainty caused by the Cleggasm, but I wouldn't recommend drawing the conclusion that you can reliably make money by selling the LibDems.

    IMO the conclusion you should draw is that the degree of uncertainty in almost any political betting is often underestimated. For that reason, on the big set-piece betting events such as the GE and the US presidentials I try to trade my way into a position where I'm reasonably well covered, and preferably profitable, over quite a wide range of outcomes.
  • Financier said:

    R4 Today - Quoting EdM that if PM he would instruct (via OfGem) all energy suppliers to cut their prices.

    The big news will be a request from 'OfKitch' instructing interior design businesses to cut the prices of hand made wall units, and second cookers.
    .... and all social housing must have a spare kitchen subsidy for the tenant.
  • Sean_F said:

    kjohnw said:

    Excellent response by Miliband to a wide range of questions on the BBC 3 programme, very impressive indeed and bodes well for the debates.Shame some people saw only one question being answered. Lots of people running scared this morning, headless chickens come to mind.The polls are not pointing to a Tory victory despite the attempts of the Tory media.
    The reality of life in Tory Britain is the only campaign tool that will work for Labour; zero hours, bedroom tax , privatisation, cuts, closure of public services etc. etc.

    are you gabble?
    Gabble could be funny.

    His rich as creases mistake was soooo funny.
    Wasn't he Denis MacShane?
    He wasn't.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,741

    I try to trade my way into a position where I'm reasonably well covered, and preferably profitable, over quite a wide range of outcomes.

    Don't we all :)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,354

    I also have two kitchens.

    Do I need to join the Labour Party?

    Alternatively, get the missus to do a piece on the Beeb about all the name-calling you have to endure.

    In the more down-market of the two kitchens, natch.
  • SeanT said:

    TGOHF said:

    John Rentoul @JohnRentoul · 30m 30 minutes ago

    EdM knows what it's like not to know where your next meal is coming from.

    Genuinely funny. Lol

    It's never good for a politician to be laughed at.
    Speaking of which, Mr. "Tremayne", I laughed out loud last night when Angus took the piss out of his father in law by asking him if he was still directing tampon commercials.

    I await Wodger's Amazon review of your book with interest given that he's in it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Miliband should rule out a deal with the SNP (net)

    Con: +63
    Lab: -16
    SNP: -72

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Indigo said:

    True as far as it goes. But causing house prices to drop and leaving million of middle class people in negative equity is a vote loser like no other, especially for the Conservatives.

    Collapsing prices would be a disaster in many ways, not least in terms of the number of houses being built. Help To Buy has been a great success, giving just enough confidence for the housebuilding firms to really get moving again, without stoking up house price inflation.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    A. Everybody wants MPs who have experience of working.
    B. Nobody wants an MP who is rich.
    C. Therefore we all want an MP who worked, but wasn't very good at it.

    I'd like a few more MPs like this:

    http://urban-echo.co.uk/exclusive-bradford-west-labour-candidate-naz-shah-reveals-all/

    I'm sure she has a lot of practical life experience that she could share on important topics with Parliament.

    We have a problem that the executive is drawn from the legislature. The skills required are quite different.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,872

    SeanT said:

    antifrank said:

    Could the pb Tories identify for me the section of the electorate that has to this point been loyally behind Ed "two kitchens" Miliband but which will now desert him?

    Surprisingly stupid remark.

    The Labour vote is weak. We know that. They are relying on reluctant half hearted prior supporters turning out to vote in May, mainly the White working class. Being reminded that the already-disliked Miliband is just as rich and out of touch as Cameron will not help motivate these people. At all.

    Two Kitchen Ed also hinders Labour's class war. It's hard to attack Tories for being privileged Bullingdonians when it's just been revealed the Labour

    But perhaps, earning £500k yourself, you miss the optics here.

    To most of Britain, Ed's life is a fantasyland of easy London wealth.
    Pulpstar said:

    chestnut said:

    Weren't the Lib Dems marvellous pre-election poll ratings largely built on the backs of the under 35s who subsequently didn't turn up?

    Who are that group polling for now?

    Anyone 25 or so in 2010 is now a thirty-something. With five years experience of austerity just as they were getting their homes together.
    Similarly a bright-eyed 20 year old student in 2010 is now a 25 year old post grad with a lower living standard than their older siblings.
    The demographic for whom I have the least sympathy is people who are now between about 28 and 40. These are the people who were old enough in 1997-2005 to vote for Blair, were warned accurately as to the consequences of doing so, but did so anyway.

    That 28-40 cohort's current problems are therefore largely their own fault. Anyone from that generation who can't afford a house should be blaming Labour 1997-2010, and themselves for electing and re-electing the bums. Instead they rather often blame the generation that is now retired, that is likeliest to have seen through Blair, and whose houses Generation Rent can't afford because they've been bid up by other members of Generation Rent.

    I'd need to see quite a bit more repentance and contrition from that demographic before I'd feel able to feel sorry for them.
    Thanks for the analysis but some of us never voted for Blair. Also 28 year olds in 1997 couldn't vote :P
    If you're 28 now you could have voted for him in 2005. The must culpable are those who did so in 1997, which isn't all 36-year olds of course. But I do always wonder, when I hear someone of that vintage bellyaching about house prices, what they actually did to stop it all.
    Plenty of people in that age cohort voted for parties other than Labour.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited March 2015

    A. Everybody wants MPs who have experience of working.
    B. Nobody wants an MP who is rich.
    C. Therefore we all want an MP who worked, but wasn't very good at it.

    Today's issue isn't with MPs being rich, it's with hypocritical Labour ones who seek to hide their wealth, and pretend that they're 'ordinary'.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    All is well in Tory fantasy land, and the small talk can return to the importance of kitchens, and the rights of persecuted presenters.
    No one can say PB is not a weathervane for the top political issues of the day.

    (actually, 1 in 10 might, but they can be shouted down)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: New Statesman's latest May2015 projection: "Tories lead by 20 seats and are now on course to win this election".
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    Two kitchens: what kind of lazy lard-arse can't be bothered to get up, go to the kitchen and put tea and "light snacks" on a tray and go back upstairs?


  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited March 2015
    Good Morning.
    The real news this morning is that there's no news, except this little snippet of mine:

    Richard Rogers ‏@oowmygawd 10h10 hours ago
    In 2014 I put a £20 bet @ 100/1 with local bookie on UKIP winning 50-100 seats in May, tonight in the pub he offered to but it back for £500

    mike kaye ‏@atmikekayes3 10h10 hours ago
    @oowmygawd Now thats an interesting fact. :)
    Whats making your local bookie scared?

    Richard Rogers ‏@oowmygawd 10h10 hours ago
    @atmikekayes3 I`ve learned over the years,never believe what the media polls say on elections,if you want the truth, visit the bookie.

    Richard Rogers ‏@oowmygawd 10h10 hours ago
    @atmikekayes3 I think he realises it could be £2000 in May.I always watch the bookies odds in the run up to elections,odds 5/1 now.

    Trouble is that PB bookies are not following Richard Rogers Bookie.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,808
    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: New Statesman's latest May2015 projection: "Tories lead by 20 seats and are now on course to win this election".

    Where does he get this from? The May 2015 calculator shows Tory lead Lab by 23 seats and therefore a hung parliament. I suppose it depends what you mean by 'win'.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    A. Everybody wants MPs who have experience of working.
    B. Nobody wants an MP who is rich.
    C. Therefore we all want an MP who worked, but wasn't very good at it.

    Today's issue isn't with MPs being rich, it's with hypocritical Labour ones who seek to hide their wealth, and pretend that they're 'ordinary'.
    Exactly.


  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    I also have two kitchens.

    Do I need to join the Labour Party?

    What utility do you derive by having a second kitchen?

    My daughter is very taken with the idea of a kitchen with an island in it, but why a second kitchen entirely?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,449

    Curious YouGov poll suggesting voters want to nationalise nearly everything - except
    banks:

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/03/12/nationalisation-ideology-beats-pragmatism/

    There's also a VI in there - a tie.

    SeanT's view that Labour depends mainly on half-hearted low-income voters is dated if it was ever true. Half-hearted low-income voters simply don't vote, by and large, and haven't done for some time, though they may be tempted by UKIP. It's a challenge for parties to remain keen to help people who don't vote - for instance, we remain very enthusiastic about Sure Start, but I meet plenty of Sure Start parents who wouldn't dream of voting. In the USA, the Democrats have pretty much given up trying to appeal to very poor voters and have switched to groups like teachers who are well-organised and inclined to vote. The Tory equivalent here is wealthy pensioners, hence the preoccupation with pension pot draw-down.

    People don't like the idea of private companies making money out of them for what they think they already pay for through taxes and consider core essential services. It offends British notions of fair play.

    That doesn't mean they'd vote for a party seriously proposing renationalisation, or be happy once the nationalised industries started to offer a poorer, less reliable service at a higher price. Which they would.

    Incidentally, the figures for railways and utilities surprised me. A lot more people favouring private or pragmatic than I thought, and not far off parity with those preferring public. The one big one missing here is private telecommunications/mobile phone companies.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,956

    A. Everybody wants MPs who have experience of working.
    B. Nobody wants an MP who is rich.
    C. Therefore we all want an MP who worked, but wasn't very good at it.

    Today's issue isn't with MPs being rich, it's with hypocritical Labour ones who seek to hide their wealth, and pretend that they're 'ordinary'.
    Exactly.


    ... or hypocritical Tory PMs who hug huskies to pretend they're green and hoodies to pretend they care.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    I wonder if there is a way of off shoring second kitchens to hide it from prying eyes?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,808
    Cyclefree said:

    Two kitchens: what kind of lazy lard-arse can't be bothered to get up, go to the kitchen and put tea and "light snacks" on a tray and go back upstairs?


    It's an idea I've never thought of before, but my kitchen leads off the living room, so I don't have far to travel.

    I suspect this set-up is because he holds so many policy seminar meetings at his house (a true kitchen cabinet?) and wants to keep all that away from the family living area upstairs.

  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    They need two kitchens cos EdM seems to be a messy eater..ketchup,crumbs, bits of bacon everywhere.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,449
    Can anyone point me in the direction of a good analysis/breakdown of where all the 2010 Lib Dems have gone on *current* polling numbers please?

    I'm after a good rule of thumb, backed my some evidence. I want to avoid drinking from the sub-sample cup, if i can.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    antifrank said:

    glw said:

    antifrank said:

    Could the pb Tories identify for me the section of the electorate that has to this point been loyally behind Ed "two kitchens" Miliband but which will now desert him?

    It's another mark against his "I'm an ordinary bloke like you" shtick. Individually they mean little, but they add up to Ed being a phoney.
    Please identify these people who to this point have believed that Ed Miliband is ordinary. "Nerd" and "weird" would be more recognisable descriptions.
    The kitchen meme is boring nonsense. No one thought he was 'a man of the people', he doesn't try to sell himself as one, and the photog looked like it was taken in a converted pokey utiity room.

    He lives in Dartmouth park, what did people expect his house to be like? A council flat?


  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The Times have helpfully included in their version of the kitchen story a picture of David Miliband in his vast kitchen with all manner of fancy kit
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JoeWatts_: Shadow cabinet minister Caroline Flint says she's only got one kitchen...sounds like a veiled leadership bid... https://t.co/PmG0Vw8B0a
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    A. Everybody wants MPs who have experience of working.
    B. Nobody wants an MP who is rich.
    C. Therefore we all want an MP who worked, but wasn't very good at it.

    Today's issue isn't with MPs being rich, it's with hypocritical Labour ones who seek to hide their wealth, and pretend that they're 'ordinary'.
    Exactly.

    ... or hypocritical Tory PMs who hug huskies to pretend they're green and hoodies to pretend they care.
    Cameron's photo shoot with the huskies was certainly a stunt - however his stance on green issues does appear to have been consistent. unfortunately..!
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,199
    I have just hunted down the final moving average YouGov chart that I produced for the 2010 election. At the time, YouGov were producing 7 polls per week.

    Some 5 weeks prior to the election the Tory lead over Labour began to improve. Then along came the TV debates, and everything changed rather dramatically.

    Once the Cleggasm had subsided, things did begin to get back on track, but not quickly enough for the Tories to reassert their lead.

    The final tick on this chart is not a moving average, but the actual election result.

    I think the chart clearly explains Cameron’s reluctance to engage in any TV debates this time around. Click the chart to see a large version...

    Simple, Free Image and File Hosting at MediaFire
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Watching this "two kitchen" frenzy makes me think that there may be, err, legs in transcendental levitation.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,449

    On the subject of Soubry. If she switched to her politically more natural home of the Lib Dems , they would at least get one fierce woman who would sort out the males in the party that dared transgress with the females. This is the sort of Leader they really need at this time.

    I can't stand Soubry. However, I also disagree fundamentally with Nick's politics.

    If I were in Broxtowe, I'd feel i'd have no choice other than to vote UKIP even though that'd probably make Nick's re-election more likely.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    glw said:

    antifrank said:

    Could the pb Tories identify for me the section of the electorate that has to this point been loyally behind Ed "two kitchens" Miliband but which will now desert him?

    It's another mark against his "I'm an ordinary bloke like you" shtick. Individually they mean little, but they add up to Ed being a phoney.
    Please identify these people who to this point have believed that Ed Miliband is ordinary. "Nerd" and "weird" would be more recognisable descriptions.
    The kitchen meme is boring nonsense. No one thought he was 'a man of the people', he doesn't try to sell himself as one, and the photog looked like it was taken in a converted pokey utiity room.

    He lives in Dartmouth park, what did people expect his house to be like? A council flat?


    Oddly, it's the pb Tories who've got all excited about it, when any benefit will be felt by UKIP.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,741
    MikeK said:

    Good Morning.
    The real news this morning is that there's no news, except this little snippet of mine:

    Richard Rogers ‏@oowmygawd 10h10 hours ago
    In 2014 I put a £20 bet @ 100/1 with local bookie on UKIP winning 50-100 seats in May, tonight in the pub he offered to but it back for £500

    mike kaye ‏@atmikekayes3 10h10 hours ago
    @oowmygawd Now thats an interesting fact. :)
    Whats making your local bookie scared?

    Richard Rogers ‏@oowmygawd 10h10 hours ago
    @atmikekayes3 I`ve learned over the years,never believe what the media polls say on elections,if you want the truth, visit the bookie.

    Richard Rogers ‏@oowmygawd 10h10 hours ago
    @atmikekayes3 I think he realises it could be £2000 in May.I always watch the bookies odds in the run up to elections,odds 5/1 now.

    Trouble is that PB bookies are not following Richard Rogers Bookie.

    Can anyone point me in the direction of this bookie ?
  • I also have two kitchens.

    Do I need to join the Labour Party?

    What utility do you derive by having a second kitchen?

    My daughter is very taken with the idea of a kitchen with an island in it, but why a second kitchen entirely?
    A couple of years ago, we built an extension and ended up with two kitchens (and six toilets)

    The first smaller kitchen is there for everyday use.

    Originally it was backed up to the main dining room, however my mum wanted a large kitchen and didn't want it encroaching on the main dining room, so we built her a new one and a new dining room.

  • frpenkridgefrpenkridge Posts: 670
    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    glw said:

    antifrank said:

    Could the pb Tories identify for me the section of the electorate that has to this point been loyally behind Ed "two kitchens" Miliband but which will now desert him?

    It's another mark against his "I'm an ordinary bloke like you" shtick. Individually they mean little, but they add up to Ed being a phoney.
    Please identify these people who to this point have believed that Ed Miliband is ordinary. "Nerd" and "weird" would be more recognisable descriptions.
    The kitchen meme is boring nonsense. No one thought he was 'a man of the people', he doesn't try to sell himself as one, and the photog looked like it was taken in a converted pokey utiity room.

    He lives in Dartmouth park, what did people expect his house to be like? A council flat?


    Not a council flat. I understand they have been snapped up by rich union leaders.

  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    edited March 2015

    Indigo said:

    SeanT said:

    antifrank said:

    SeanT said:

    antifrank said:

    Could the pb Tories identify for me the section of the electorate that has to this point been loyally behind Ed "two kitchens" Miliband but which will now desert him?

    Surprisingly stupid remark.

    Two Kitchen Ed also hinders Labour's class war. It's hard to attack Tories for being privileged Bullingdonians when it's just been revealed the Labour leader has installed an induction hob for his servants quarters.

    But perhaps, earning £500k yourself, you miss the optics here.

    To most of Britain, Ed's life is a fantasyland of easy London wealth.
    Ed Miliband is no one's idea of a man of the people. This is not news.
    Nor is it news that Cameron is an old Etonian and ex member of Bullingdon who gives, yes, kitchen suppers. Yet he tries to avoid mentioning all this. Why? Because he knows it damages him.

    The next time Ed stands up in the Commons and bangs on about "Tory millionaires" he will be drowned out by scoffing remarks about his second kitchen.

    You can argue that all this stuff SHOULDN'T matter. Nonetheless it does.

    Incidentally it doesn't really matter why he has a second kitchen, even if for religious purposes, there was clearly an intent to showcase the down-market one, it would be a bit embarrassing if the other turned out to me some £100k Bulthaup confection.
    For 'religious purposes'? Presumably that's one for bacon, and the other for Kosher.

    As you say, the 'real kitchen' will be a slick interior designed number, perfect for a £2 million Dartmouth Park mansion.

    (No doubt there will be some spin doctor waffle about it already being in the house when they bought it, brushing over the fact that the house cost well over 10 times the national average, and would be unaffordable for 99% of the population).
    An area where Miliband has yet to be skewered publicly, but will be during the campaign, is when someone - perhaps an ordinary person that he has met on Hampstead Heath? - asks him to guarantee that he and all other Labour MPs who own mansions will be paying Ed's mansion tax out of their own pocket. I.e that they will not expense it, so that we all pay it for them so that they don't.

    He will give no such guarantee on his own behalf or anyone else's and will look foolish and hypocritical again.

    I love the idea of a tax on second kitchens to fund more nurses for our NHS though. There'd be an exemption for those who have one for religious reasons obvs.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited March 2015
    MikeK said:

    Good Morning.
    The real news this morning is that there's no news, except this little snippet of mine:

    Richard Rogers ‏@oowmygawd 10h10 hours ago
    In 2014 I put a £20 bet @ 100/1 with local bookie on UKIP winning 50-100 seats in May, tonight in the pub he offered to but it back for £500

    mike kaye ‏@atmikekayes3 10h10 hours ago
    @oowmygawd Now thats an interesting fact. :)
    Whats making your local bookie scared?

    Richard Rogers ‏@oowmygawd 10h10 hours ago
    @atmikekayes3 I`ve learned over the years,never believe what the media polls say on elections,if you want the truth, visit the bookie.

    Richard Rogers ‏@oowmygawd 10h10 hours ago
    @atmikekayes3 I think he realises it could be £2000 in May.I always watch the bookies odds in the run up to elections,odds 5/1 now.

    Trouble is that PB bookies are not following Richard Rogers Bookie.

    Mike, as I pointed out last night, the actual odds on UKIP winning 50-100 seats are currently 50/1, if not higher.

    Which makes his £20 bet worth about £40.

    And that's being generous. The main bookies would offer a cashout of ~£35
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SeanT said:

    TGOHF said:

    John Rentoul @JohnRentoul · 30m 30 minutes ago

    EdM knows what it's like not to know where your next meal is coming from.

    Genuinely funny. Lol

    It's never good for a politician to be laughed at.
    I agree. Most political tweets are dull. This one actually made me laugh out loud.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    glw said:

    antifrank said:

    Could the pb Tories identify for me the section of the electorate that has to this point been loyally behind Ed "two kitchens" Miliband but which will now desert him?

    It's another mark against his "I'm an ordinary bloke like you" shtick. Individually they mean little, but they add up to Ed being a phoney.
    Please identify these people who to this point have believed that Ed Miliband is ordinary. "Nerd" and "weird" would be more recognisable descriptions.
    The kitchen meme is boring nonsense. No one thought he was 'a man of the people', he doesn't try to sell himself as one, and the photog looked like it was taken in a converted pokey utiity room.

    He lives in Dartmouth park, what did people expect his house to be like? A council flat?


    I know the area and houses very well. Maybe it's the company I keep but I've never seen a house in that area with two kitchens.

    Until recently I'd never heard of people having such things, thinking it an affectation for those with more money than sense. I thought it was something limited to Orthodox Jews, Russian billionaires who never cook and Royals.

    There is no political impact of this story but it is good fun mocking politicians. We all know he lives in a big house with probably a big kitchen. Why not just film himself in it (if he has to do it all)?

  • frpenkridgefrpenkridge Posts: 670
    Talking of kitchens, I'd probably vote for any politician who could whip off a tablecloth whilst leaving all the knives, forks etc in place.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    glw said:

    antifrank said:

    Could the pb Tories identify for me the section of the electorate that has to this point been loyally behind Ed "two kitchens" Miliband but which will now desert him?

    It's another mark against his "I'm an ordinary bloke like you" shtick. Individually they mean little, but they add up to Ed being a phoney.
    Please identify these people who to this point have believed that Ed Miliband is ordinary. "Nerd" and "weird" would be more recognisable descriptions.
    The kitchen meme is boring nonsense. No one thought he was 'a man of the people', he doesn't try to sell himself as one, and the photog looked like it was taken in a converted pokey utiity room.

    He lives in Dartmouth park, what did people expect his house to be like? A council flat?


    It isn't nonsense when he is trying to portray himself as the Leader who went to the local comprehensive and feels your pain etc
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Talking of kitchens, I'd probably vote for any politician who could whip off a tablecloth whilst leaving all the knives, forks etc in place.

    Tommy Cooper for PM!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited March 2015
    We can judge the salience of the Two Kitchens story by the fact that it is number 1 in the Telegraph 'Most Read' list, despite very strong competition. Ed even manages to trounce this story:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/11466651/Spider-that-can-give-men-four-hour-erections-found-in-Tesco-bananas.html
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    @TSE - If it's a matter of keeping your mother happy then I can quite understand.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    TGOHF said:

    John Rentoul @JohnRentoul · 30m 30 minutes ago

    EdM knows what it's like not to know where your next meal is coming from.

    Genuinely funny. Lol

    It's never good for a politician to be laughed at.
    I agree. Most political tweets are dull. This one actually made me laugh out loud.
    The car keys one is good as well.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    We can judge the salience of the Two Kitchens story by the fact that it is number 1 in the Telegraph 'Most Read' list, despite very strong competition. Ed even manages to trounce this story:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/11466651/Spider-that-can-give-men-four-hour-erections-found-in-Tesco-bananas.html

    The opening line of that story is magnificent. And the poor journalist that came up with it has got no credit for it.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited March 2015
    My ideal living accommodation would be a solid insulated very large room with high walls;up high, perhaps with a balcony, set with book shelves all 'round ; cooking in one corner; ablution in another corner, perhaps enclosed; another corner for sitting, relaxing, and reading/sleeping; the rest of the wall space set up with workbenches and low shelving mainly for equipment; heavy lathes or whatever floor standing in the middle.
    So what?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,741
    edited March 2015
    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: New Statesman's latest May2015 projection: "Tories lead by 20 seats and are now on course to win this election".

    Which ragtag Gov't do you want ?

    CON + LD + DUP + UKIP + North Down = 321

    LAB + SNP + PC + GREEN + SDLP + Respect = 324
  • We can judge the salience of the Two Kitchens story by the fact that it is number 1 in the Telegraph 'Most Read' list, despite very strong competition. Ed even manages to trounce this story:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/11466651/Spider-that-can-give-men-four-hour-erections-found-in-Tesco-bananas.html

    Four hour erections are a pain, honestly after the first 15 mins it's no fun.

    Ahem, so I am told.

    But scared stiff
  • isam said:

    antifrank said:

    glw said:

    antifrank said:

    Could the pb Tories identify for me the section of the electorate that has to this point been loyally behind Ed "two kitchens" Miliband but which will now desert him?

    It's another mark against his "I'm an ordinary bloke like you" shtick. Individually they mean little, but they add up to Ed being a phoney.
    Please identify these people who to this point have believed that Ed Miliband is ordinary. "Nerd" and "weird" would be more recognisable descriptions.
    The kitchen meme is boring nonsense. No one thought he was 'a man of the people', he doesn't try to sell himself as one, and the photog looked like it was taken in a converted pokey utiity room.

    He lives in Dartmouth park, what did people expect his house to be like? A council flat?
    It's important to remind the punters at every opportunity that by his own lights, he's a rich, rich, rich man who's tax-dodged and troughed his way to this position. Furthermore, he has special spiteful taxes in mind for those who have not done so, which he himself will certainly dodge.

    He's a rich back-stabbing tax hypocrite; these qualities speak to why he's unfit for any position in public life.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    A. Everybody wants MPs who have experience of working.
    B. Nobody wants an MP who is rich.
    C. Therefore we all want an MP who worked, but wasn't very good at it.

    Today's issue isn't with MPs being rich, it's with hypocritical Labour ones who seek to hide their wealth, and pretend that they're 'ordinary'.
    Exactly.

    ... or hypocritical Tory PMs who hug huskies to pretend they're green and hoodies to pretend they care.
    Cameron's photo shoot with the huskies was certainly a stunt - however his stance on green issues does appear to have been consistent. unfortunately..!
    Plus Cameron never talked about 'hoodies' or hugging them.
    Its amusing to see people falling over themselves to toe a labour propaganda lie.

    Equally rabbiting on about kitchens seem pretty silly. I know Miliband talked about bringing the recovery to the kitchen table but the real point about that is that inflation is falling, food prices have fallen, real wages have been rising and job numbers increasing and unemployment falling. And more British workers are finding British jobs.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548

    Talking of kitchens, I'd probably vote for any politician who could whip off a tablecloth whilst leaving all the knives, forks etc in place.

    My general rule of thumb is that the posher the kitchen, the more steel, Dualit toasters, whizzo coffee machines and other expensive gadgets there are in it, the less actual cooking is done in it. They are Versailles-kitchens: all for show and to show how much money has been spent. Any half-decent cook can whip up a delicious meal in an area the size of a pocket handkerchief with no more than 3 gas rings, a couple of pans, a sharp knife and a sink. Oh - and some fresh food, of course.
This discussion has been closed.