Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Something to scare those who’ve been betting heavily on UKI

245

Comments

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    edited February 2015

    I don't want to get into a flame war about Peak Kipper or not, but I am right in thinking, UKIP haven't been as visible as much recently, whilst the big two kick lumps out of each other.

    So we've seen UKIP going down, and the big two on the up.

    Given the format of the debates was the Cameron v Miliband head to head to be the final debate, a week before election day, perhaps UKIP have dodged a bullet with the likelihood of no debates.

    UKPR had UKIP moving up from 14% to 15% at the end of last week (admittedly, that includes the TNS figure which I don't much rate) It's easy to look at one poll in isolation, but one needs to look in the round.

    The four polls since Anthony Wells updated his numbers have UKIP on an average 13.5%.

  • Pulpstar said:

    Offtopic - Hope everyone is feeling better than me today, sick & in bed :(

    Get well soon!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,386
    edited February 2015
    Has the ComRes/Daily Mail poll replaced ComRes/Independent? Or will we be getting a third ComRes poll before the end of Feb?

    Shame The Rant didn't go with ICM. We could do with a second ICM poll a month, IMO.
  • Sean_F said:

    I don't want to get into a flame war about Peak Kipper or not, but I am right in thinking, UKIP haven't been as visible as much recently, whilst the big two kick lumps out of each other.

    So we've seen UKIP going down, and the big two on the up.

    Given the format of the debates was the Cameron v Miliband head to head to be the final debate, a week before election day, perhaps UKIP have dodged a bullet with the likelihood of no debates.

    UKPR has UKIP moving up from 14% to 15% at the end of last week (admittedly, that includes the TNS figure which I don't much rate) It's easy to look at one poll in isolation, but one needs to look in the round.

    I was looking at a variety of polls.

    ICM had the big two up last week, and UKIP down to a lower figure, ditto Ipsos-Mori

    YouGov on Saturday had UKIP on their joint lowest for a while
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Good afternoon all and I see the good Lord is having a TNS moment this afternoon. Given that ComRes is claiming its poll tonight is interesting, it will probably be as underwhelming as so many have been in recent weeks.

    I wonder how Gordon Brown is getting on persuading Tescos not to shut the main supermarket in his constituency? They can always go back to shopping at the Coop.
  • "Super-ELBOW" for all of February's polls so far gives Lab 1.3% lead, with less than a week to go.

    How does that compare to January.

    In fact has the level of lead been about that since October?
    All-January "Super-ELBOW" = 1.1% lead for the Reds.
    But was a few decimals higher in Autumn 2014.
    There is still March and April for Rod Crosby January crossover
    I thought January was the Month of Crossover. And February is the Month of Pulling Away.

    I fear for young Sunil if we don't get Crossover soon.
    My magic ELBOWs will protect me :)
  • antifrank said:

    TGOHF said:

    BenM said:

    Nah. Try again Lord A.

    Am worried about my Kippers "2 Mps" bet - should I go for a saver on "1" ?
    11/2 with Ladbrokes that UKIP get under 1.5 MPs.

    I'm not recommending this bet, mind.
    I wouldn't trade out of any Kipper bets yet.

    They going through a quiet patch, but are a very long way from meltdown.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Has the ComRes/Daily Mail poll replaced ComRes/Independent? Or will we be getting a third ComRes poll before the end of Feb?

    Shame The Rant didn't go with ICM. We could do with a second ICM poll a month, IMO.

    ComRes are still maintaining their current polling relationship with the Indy and the IOS/Sunday Mirror.

    So these will be additional polls to what we normally get.
  • There's not much to me that suggests that UKIP are declining significantly, when you look pollster by pollster rather than poll by poll:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.com/2015/02/purples-reined-current-polling-and.html

    The Populus score this morning was in the middle of their recent range. This score is way outside what Lord Ashcroft normally finds for UKIP, which has been a 14-17% range so far this year.
  • I don't want to get into a flame war about Peak Kipper or not, but I am right in thinking, UKIP haven't been as visible as much recently, whilst the big two kick lumps out of each other.

    So we've seen UKIP going down, and the big two on the up.

    Given the format of the debates was the Cameron v Miliband head to head to be the final debate, a week before election day, perhaps UKIP have dodged a bullet with the likelihood of no debates.

    Peak-Kipper in ELBOW was their 17.7% score during w/e 30th November.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,386

    GIN1138 said:

    Has the ComRes/Daily Mail poll replaced ComRes/Independent? Or will we be getting a third ComRes poll before the end of Feb?

    Shame The Rant didn't go with ICM. We could do with a second ICM poll a month, IMO.

    ComRes are still maintaining their current polling relationship with the Indy and the IOS/Sunday Mirror.

    So these will be additional polls to what we normally get.
    So the ComRes/Indy poll for February will be out later in the week I assume?

  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Scott_P said:

    @AndrewSparrow: Ed Balls v George Osborne on HSBC - Verdict - http://t.co/nDgCfTSzt2 - Osborne saw off Balls with ease

    Balls never learns does he? And still he comes back for another pounding. I'd have thought he'd learn from the debacle he suffered post the EU payment stuff.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    The really frightening LibDem finding is that two thirds of their rump support say they may yet vote differently (vs 40ish for the other parties).

    Yup. This was always the risk of the Lib Dems' triangulation-on-acid election strategy of being equidistant between the two big parties. Even leaving aside the trust issues and Clegg issues, their core message at the moment is just so diluted and weak that it's surely impossible for anyone to be enthusiastic about it.

    The Lib Dems essentially face all of Labour's current problems magnified by about 10.
  • "Super-ELBOW" for all of February's polls so far gives Lab 1.3% lead, with less than a week to go.

    How does that compare to January.

    In fact has the level of lead been about that since October?
    All-January "Super-ELBOW" = 1.1% lead for the Reds.
    But was a few decimals higher in Autumn 2014.
    There is still March and April for Rod Crosby January crossover
    I thought January was the Month of Crossover. And February is the Month of Pulling Away.

    I fear for young Sunil if we don't get Crossover soon.
    My magic ELBOWs will protect me :)
    Sure, but get canvassing tonite in Ilford North, just in case.
  • It almost seems like news from another age.

    James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 6m6 minutes ago
    Breaking: Andy Coulson will stand trial in Scotland on charges of perjury on 21 April 2015
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    I've filed this one under Counter intuitive.

    Lab UK lead 4% - that could be accurate
    England only Lab Lead 6%
    The implication is Cons are doing better than Lab in Scotland and Wales. Even with a Lab meltdown North and West, that is counter intuitive.
  • I don't want to get into a flame war about Peak Kipper or not, but I am right in thinking, UKIP haven't been as visible as much recently, whilst the big two kick lumps out of each other.

    So we've seen UKIP going down, and the big two on the up.

    Given the format of the debates was the Cameron v Miliband head to head to be the final debate, a week before election day, perhaps UKIP have dodged a bullet with the likelihood of no debates.

    UKIP haven't been as visible but I think that's partly a deliberate strategy (and partly the natural squeeze of the election). The question will be as to how much purchase they can get later.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    It almost seems like news from another age.

    James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 6m6 minutes ago
    Breaking: Andy Coulson will stand trial in Scotland on charges of perjury on 21 April 2015

    Great timing :D
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,386

    It almost seems like news from another age.

    James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 6m6 minutes ago
    Breaking: Andy Coulson will stand trial in Scotland on charges of perjury on 21 April 2015

    Oh....

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,514
    edited February 2015

    It almost seems like news from another age.

    James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 6m6 minutes ago
    Breaking: Andy Coulson will stand trial in Scotland on charges of perjury on 21 April 2015

    Nice timing....another distraction for the Tories from trying to get their message out there.

    That is actually what I think is happening now, none of these scandals I think are hitting the Tories hard from A&E waiting lists, to HSBC, to lobbying, but what it is doing is stopping Tories being able to get on the front foot and push home their more jobs than ever, low inflation, deficit down (don't mention the original predictions) etc.

    As the Tories are the ones that need to get 4-5% ahead, it is all to Labour's advantage that the past 3-4 weeks have been dominated by Tories having to talk about stuff that makes them look bad rather than being able to talk about their perceived strengths.

    Certainly worth considering in terms of every bodies betting positions for the GE outcome.
  • "Super-ELBOW" for all of February's polls so far gives Lab 1.3% lead, with less than a week to go.

    How does that compare to January.

    In fact has the level of lead been about that since October?
    All-January "Super-ELBOW" = 1.1% lead for the Reds.
    But was a few decimals higher in Autumn 2014.
    There is still March and April for Rod Crosby January crossover
    I thought January was the Month of Crossover. And February is the Month of Pulling Away.

    I fear for young Sunil if we don't get Crossover soon.
    My magic ELBOWs will protect me :)
    Sure, but get canvassing tonite in Ilford North, just in case.
    Unfortunately in the Midlands right now, won't be back till the weekend...
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Does anyone know if the UKIP documentary is being repeated? All I read about on twitter this morning was some Kipper woman who feels uncomfortable around black people. She seemed to be digging a hole for herself faster than Malcolm Rifkind can say "self employed".

    Wonder who the new Tory PPC for Kensington and Chelsea will be?
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    I don't want to get into a flame war about Peak Kipper or not, but I am right in thinking, UKIP haven't been as visible as much recently, whilst the big two kick lumps out of each other.

    So we've seen UKIP going down, and the big two on the up.

    Given the format of the debates was the Cameron v Miliband head to head to be the final debate, a week before election day, perhaps UKIP have dodged a bullet with the likelihood of no debates.

    UKIP haven't been as visible but I think that's partly a deliberate strategy (and partly the natural squeeze of the election). The question will be as to how much purchase they can get later.
    Yep - UKIP have been jaw droppingly invisible.
    Plus Chelsea fan and £9k Farage claim for non existent rent invisible.
  • "Super-ELBOW" for all of February's polls so far gives Lab 1.3% lead, with less than a week to go.

    How does that compare to January.

    In fact has the level of lead been about that since October?
    All-January "Super-ELBOW" = 1.1% lead for the Reds.
    But was a few decimals higher in Autumn 2014.
    There is still March and April for Rod Crosby January crossover
    I thought January was the Month of Crossover. And February is the Month of Pulling Away.

    I fear for young Sunil if we don't get Crossover soon.
    My magic ELBOWs will protect me :)
    Sure, but get canvassing tonite in Ilford North, just in case.
    Unfortunately in the Midlands right now, won't be back till the weekend...
    Well pop a few leaflets through doors in Broxtowe then. Nick won't mind.
  • Does anyone know if the UKIP documentary is being repeated? All I read about on twitter this morning was some Kipper woman who feels uncomfortable around black people. She seemed to be digging a hole for herself faster than Malcolm Rifkind can say "self employed".

    Wonder who the new Tory PPC for Kensington and Chelsea will be?

    Caithness, Sutherland & Easter Ross ranks #632 out of 632 seats in Great Britain for non-white population.
  • philiph said:

    I've filed this one under Counter intuitive.

    Lab UK lead 4% - that could be accurate
    England only Lab Lead 6%
    The implication is Cons are doing better than Lab in Scotland and Wales. Even with a Lab meltdown North and West, that is counter intuitive.

    As NickP says upthread, the polls are not weighted to be representative within each area. So necessarily if disproportionately many AB's with 3 cars are polled in Scotland then the AB's with 3 cars in the South East get downweighted too.

    Hence you get a domino effect between regions (or between the sexes, for that matter) whereby if you get an unusual result one way in one subsample it will probably be balanced by another "outlier" elsewhere.

    To get a proper England-only picture you need to weight just the England data to England demographics (i.e. an England-only poll).
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Danny565 said:

    The really frightening LibDem finding is that two thirds of their rump support say they may yet vote differently (vs 40ish for the other parties).

    Yup. This was always the risk of the Lib Dems' triangulation-on-acid election strategy of being equidistant between the two big parties. Even leaving aside the trust issues and Clegg issues, their core message at the moment is just so diluted and weak that it's surely impossible for anyone to be enthusiastic about it.

    The Lib Dems essentially face all of Labour's current problems magnified by about 10.

    The really frightening LibDem finding is that two thirds of their rump support say they may yet vote differently (vs 40ish for the other parties).

    It is not really frightening at all . If the Lib Dems lose all the 2/3rds of flaky rump support they will lose 4% of the total vote . If Labour and Conservatives lose all their 40% ish flaky support they will lose 28% of the total vote between them .
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041

    It almost seems like news from another age.

    James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 6m6 minutes ago
    Breaking: Andy Coulson will stand trial in Scotland on charges of perjury on 21 April 2015

    You'd think such a politically charged trial wouldn't commence two weeks before the election! I guess the judiciary is independent, and this was the most convenient time to have it, but still...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    "Super-ELBOW" for all of February's polls so far gives Lab 1.3% lead, with less than a week to go.

    How does that compare to January.

    In fact has the level of lead been about that since October?
    All-January "Super-ELBOW" = 1.1% lead for the Reds.
    But was a few decimals higher in Autumn 2014.
    There is still March and April for Rod Crosby January crossover
    I thought January was the Month of Crossover. And February is the Month of Pulling Away.

    I fear for young Sunil if we don't get Crossover soon.
    My magic ELBOWs will protect me :)
    Sure, but get canvassing tonite in Ilford North, just in case.
    Unfortunately in the Midlands right now, won't be back till the weekend...
    Well pop a few leaflets through doors in Broxtowe then. Nick won't mind.
    Pop a few TOry leaflets through the doors in Elmet & Rothwell and Kingswood too though if you don't mind terribly :)
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Pulpstar said:

    It almost seems like news from another age.

    James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 6m6 minutes ago
    Breaking: Andy Coulson will stand trial in Scotland on charges of perjury on 21 April 2015

    Great timing :D
    This could complete Tommy's Lazarus like return.
  • It almost seems like news from another age.

    James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 6m6 minutes ago
    Breaking: Andy Coulson will stand trial in Scotland on charges of perjury on 21 April 2015

    This alleged perjury took place whilst he was serving in Number 10.

    Just what Dave wants during the tail end of the campaign
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    antifrank said:

    TGOHF said:

    BenM said:

    Nah. Try again Lord A.

    Am worried about my Kippers "2 Mps" bet - should I go for a saver on "1" ?
    11/2 with Ladbrokes that UKIP get under 1.5 MPs.

    I'm not recommending this bet, mind.
    Which half of Mark Reckless would you prefer?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    I don't want to get into a flame war about Peak Kipper or not, but I am right in thinking, UKIP haven't been as visible as much recently, whilst the big two kick lumps out of each other.

    So we've seen UKIP going down, and the big two on the up.

    Given the format of the debates was the Cameron v Miliband head to head to be the final debate, a week before election day, perhaps UKIP have dodged a bullet with the likelihood of no debates.

    UKIP haven't been as visible but I think that's partly a deliberate strategy (and partly the natural squeeze of the election). The question will be as to how much purchase they can get later.
    Yep - UKIP have been jaw droppingly invisible.
    Plus Chelsea fan and £9k Farage claim for non existent rent invisible.
    So, despite several newspapers emphasising that the Chelsea fan in question was not involved in the racial abuse, you continue to smear him.
  • http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/west-ham-chants-aimed-at-tottenham-fans-labelled-vile-by-spurs-kick-it-out-contact-police-over-antisemitic-video-footage-10064286.html

    I presume Adrian "Golly" Chiles will be along to tell us all that "well you know it was only a few minutes of abuse and I get abuse with I walk around Manchester just because of who I am..." and "maybe the other fans were provoking it" by having a club in the same city?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2015

    antifrank said:

    TGOHF said:

    BenM said:

    Nah. Try again Lord A.

    Am worried about my Kippers "2 Mps" bet - should I go for a saver on "1" ?
    11/2 with Ladbrokes that UKIP get under 1.5 MPs.

    I'm not recommending this bet, mind.
    Which half of Mark Reckless would you prefer?
    TSE would take either half, as long as it was separated from the other half with a battleaxe.
  • The New Statesman have republished a piece from a defeated Labour MP in the wake of the 1983 debacle. Some lessons here for both main parties; Labour's 1980/81 experience is precisely why this is not a "good election to lose".

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/02/christopher-price-reflections-landslide
  • It almost seems like news from another age.

    James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 6m6 minutes ago
    Breaking: Andy Coulson will stand trial in Scotland on charges of perjury on 21 April 2015

    This alleged perjury took place whilst he was serving in Number 10.

    Just what Dave wants during the tail end of the campaign
    Cue the nightly news containing nice updates from said trial, complete with video / stills of Cameron and Coulson together just after report on the day of the campaign trial with each leader....not good for Cameron / Tories at all.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    philiph said:

    I've filed this one under Counter intuitive.

    Lab UK lead 4% - that could be accurate
    England only Lab Lead 6%
    The implication is Cons are doing better than Lab in Scotland and Wales. Even with a Lab meltdown North and West, that is counter intuitive.

    As NickP says upthread, the polls are not weighted to be representative within each area. So necessarily if disproportionately many AB's with 3 cars are polled in Scotland then the AB's with 3 cars in the South East get downweighted too.

    Hence you get a domino effect between regions (or between the sexes, for that matter) whereby if you get an unusual result one way in one subsample it will probably be balanced by another "outlier" elsewhere.

    To get a proper England-only picture you need to weight just the England data to England demographics (i.e. an England-only poll).
    The problem is that the companies are trying to run National polls with two completely segmented portions. I can understand why the companies insist on continuing with this as it is cheaper than having to run a full (or at least 500 sample) Scottish poll to get a proper national picture.

    But it is likely to be the source of all the fluctuations being seen in these polls and until they make such a change, the national polls will b fundamentally flawed.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    It almost seems like news from another age.

    James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 6m6 minutes ago
    Breaking: Andy Coulson will stand trial in Scotland on charges of perjury on 21 April 2015

    This alleged perjury took place whilst he was serving in Number 10.

    Just what Dave wants during the tail end of the campaign
    I think he's in with a decent shout in this one - up against Tommy.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,975
    UD

    "Breaking: Andy Coulson will stand trial in Scotland on charges of perjury on 21 April 2015"

    Anyone who doesn't find that funny hasn't got a sense of humour (AC excepted!)
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,386
    edited February 2015

    Danny565 said:

    The really frightening LibDem finding is that two thirds of their rump support say they may yet vote differently (vs 40ish for the other parties).

    Yup. This was always the risk of the Lib Dems' triangulation-on-acid election strategy of being equidistant between the two big parties. Even leaving aside the trust issues and Clegg issues, their core message at the moment is just so diluted and weak that it's surely impossible for anyone to be enthusiastic about it.

    The Lib Dems essentially face all of Labour's current problems magnified by about 10.

    The really frightening LibDem finding is that two thirds of their rump support say they may yet vote differently (vs 40ish for the other parties).

    It is not really frightening at all . If the Lib Dems lose all the 2/3rds of flaky rump support they will lose 4% of the total vote . If Labour and Conservatives lose all their 40% ish flaky support they will lose 28% of the total vote between them .
    LOL nice try Mark! 4% off 7% takes the Lib-Dems to 3%. :D

  • The New Statesman have republished a piece from a defeated Labour MP in the wake of the 1983 debacle. Some lessons here for both main parties; Labour's 1980/81 experience is precisely why this is not a "good election to lose".

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/02/christopher-price-reflections-landslide

    Damn! I thought you meant the Rik Mayall The New Statesman :)
  • antifrank said:

    TGOHF said:

    BenM said:

    Nah. Try again Lord A.

    Am worried about my Kippers "2 Mps" bet - should I go for a saver on "1" ?
    11/2 with Ladbrokes that UKIP get under 1.5 MPs.

    I'm not recommending this bet, mind.
    Which half of Mark Reckless would you prefer?
    Half would not be enough.

    My narrowest margin of victory for a successful political bet was betting on An Independence From Europe getting under 1.5% at the Euro elections last year. They got 1.49%.

    I'm sure I'll have one that fails by a similar margin sooner or later, so I'll try to remember that one when I do.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,386
    edited February 2015

    It almost seems like news from another age.

    James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 6m6 minutes ago
    Breaking: Andy Coulson will stand trial in Scotland on charges of perjury on 21 April 2015

    This alleged perjury took place whilst he was serving in Number 10.

    Just what Dave wants during the tail end of the campaign
    I wonder whether the first day of the trial will see an adjournment until after the election?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @BenM
    While not wanting to get all "Tapestry" on here......are you sure you haven't been cloned by aliens over the past month?
  • Dair said:

    philiph said:

    I've filed this one under Counter intuitive.

    Lab UK lead 4% - that could be accurate
    England only Lab Lead 6%
    The implication is Cons are doing better than Lab in Scotland and Wales. Even with a Lab meltdown North and West, that is counter intuitive.

    As NickP says upthread, the polls are not weighted to be representative within each area. So necessarily if disproportionately many AB's with 3 cars are polled in Scotland then the AB's with 3 cars in the South East get downweighted too.

    Hence you get a domino effect between regions (or between the sexes, for that matter) whereby if you get an unusual result one way in one subsample it will probably be balanced by another "outlier" elsewhere.

    To get a proper England-only picture you need to weight just the England data to England demographics (i.e. an England-only poll).
    The problem is that the companies are trying to run National polls with two completely segmented portions. I can understand why the companies insist on continuing with this as it is cheaper than having to run a full (or at least 500 sample) Scottish poll to get a proper national picture.

    But it is likely to be the source of all the fluctuations being seen in these polls and until they make such a change, the national polls will b fundamentally flawed.
    The polling companies should just give up on Scotland and Wales, as they have mostly done with Northern Ireland, and produce England-only opinion polls. They can then poll the other bits of the UK in their own right, rather than as a tiny subsample of a GB poll.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    Dair said:

    philiph said:

    I've filed this one under Counter intuitive.

    Lab UK lead 4% - that could be accurate
    England only Lab Lead 6%
    The implication is Cons are doing better than Lab in Scotland and Wales. Even with a Lab meltdown North and West, that is counter intuitive.

    As NickP says upthread, the polls are not weighted to be representative within each area. So necessarily if disproportionately many AB's with 3 cars are polled in Scotland then the AB's with 3 cars in the South East get downweighted too.

    Hence you get a domino effect between regions (or between the sexes, for that matter) whereby if you get an unusual result one way in one subsample it will probably be balanced by another "outlier" elsewhere.

    To get a proper England-only picture you need to weight just the England data to England demographics (i.e. an England-only poll).
    The problem is that the companies are trying to run National polls with two completely segmented portions. I can understand why the companies insist on continuing with this as it is cheaper than having to run a full (or at least 500 sample) Scottish poll to get a proper national picture.

    But it is likely to be the source of all the fluctuations being seen in these polls and until they make such a change, the national polls will b fundamentally flawed.
    The polling companies should just give up on Scotland and Wales, as they have mostly done with Northern Ireland, and produce England-only opinion polls. They can then poll the other bits of the UK in their own right, rather than as a tiny subsample of a GB poll.
    It would indeed be best if England and Wales were polled separately from Scotland.
  • Dair said:

    philiph said:

    I've filed this one under Counter intuitive.

    Lab UK lead 4% - that could be accurate
    England only Lab Lead 6%
    The implication is Cons are doing better than Lab in Scotland and Wales. Even with a Lab meltdown North and West, that is counter intuitive.

    As NickP says upthread, the polls are not weighted to be representative within each area. So necessarily if disproportionately many AB's with 3 cars are polled in Scotland then the AB's with 3 cars in the South East get downweighted too.

    Hence you get a domino effect between regions (or between the sexes, for that matter) whereby if you get an unusual result one way in one subsample it will probably be balanced by another "outlier" elsewhere.

    To get a proper England-only picture you need to weight just the England data to England demographics (i.e. an England-only poll).
    The problem is that the companies are trying to run National polls with two completely segmented portions. I can understand why the companies insist on continuing with this as it is cheaper than having to run a full (or at least 500 sample) Scottish poll to get a proper national picture.

    But it is likely to be the source of all the fluctuations being seen in these polls and until they make such a change, the national polls will b fundamentally flawed.
    The method is fine for the major parties as Scotland & Wales are relatively small proportions of the country, and MOE will tend to overwhelm any effect.

    But it's worth noting that the "7% Tory lead over Labour" in Scotland actually comes from 51 weighted respondents splitting thus:

    SNP 22
    Con 13
    Lab 10
    LD 5
  • The New Statesman have republished a piece from a defeated Labour MP in the wake of the 1983 debacle. Some lessons here for both main parties; Labour's 1980/81 experience is precisely why this is not a "good election to lose".

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/02/christopher-price-reflections-landslide

    This really isn't a good election to lose anyway. As we start 2015, the economic conditions that the incoming government will inherit are about as benign as could reasonably be hoped for - good growth, inflation firmly under control, employment surging, wage growth starting to appear. Yes, there's a big deficit that needs dealing with, but that should be manageable if growth continues on its current path.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041
    Rifkind digging his own grave with comments that he isn't paid enough. The last thing the voters want is to pay MPs more.
  • antifrank said:

    antifrank said:

    TGOHF said:

    BenM said:

    Nah. Try again Lord A.

    Am worried about my Kippers "2 Mps" bet - should I go for a saver on "1" ?
    11/2 with Ladbrokes that UKIP get under 1.5 MPs.

    I'm not recommending this bet, mind.
    Which half of Mark Reckless would you prefer?
    Half would not be enough.

    My narrowest margin of victory for a successful political bet was betting on An Independence From Europe getting under 1.5% at the Euro elections last year. They got 1.49%.

    I'm sure I'll have one that fails by a similar margin sooner or later, so I'll try to remember that one when I do.
    That was very lucky. I understand thousands of people wanted to vote for them but got tricked into voting UKIP instead because of their similar branding.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041

    Dair said:

    philiph said:

    I've filed this one under Counter intuitive.

    Lab UK lead 4% - that could be accurate
    England only Lab Lead 6%
    The implication is Cons are doing better than Lab in Scotland and Wales. Even with a Lab meltdown North and West, that is counter intuitive.

    As NickP says upthread, the polls are not weighted to be representative within each area. So necessarily if disproportionately many AB's with 3 cars are polled in Scotland then the AB's with 3 cars in the South East get downweighted too.

    Hence you get a domino effect between regions (or between the sexes, for that matter) whereby if you get an unusual result one way in one subsample it will probably be balanced by another "outlier" elsewhere.

    To get a proper England-only picture you need to weight just the England data to England demographics (i.e. an England-only poll).
    The problem is that the companies are trying to run National polls with two completely segmented portions. I can understand why the companies insist on continuing with this as it is cheaper than having to run a full (or at least 500 sample) Scottish poll to get a proper national picture.

    But it is likely to be the source of all the fluctuations being seen in these polls and until they make such a change, the national polls will b fundamentally flawed.
    The method is fine for the major parties as Scotland & Wales are relatively small proportions of the country, and MOE will tend to overwhelm any effect.

    But it's worth noting that the "7% Tory lead over Labour" in Scotland actually comes from 51 weighted respondents splitting thus:

    SNP 22
    Con 13
    Lab 10
    LD 5
    Clearly wrong, there aren't even thirteen Tories in Scotland (I could only wish there were that many)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    GIN1138 said:

    It almost seems like news from another age.

    James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 6m6 minutes ago
    Breaking: Andy Coulson will stand trial in Scotland on charges of perjury on 21 April 2015

    This alleged perjury took place whilst he was serving in Number 10.

    Just what Dave wants during the tail end of the campaign
    I wonder whether the first day of the trial will see an adjournment until after the election?
    Why would the Scottish legal system concern itself with that ?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    The "Mogg" is always value for money!

    Kerry McCarthy - Labour MP

    @KerryMP

    Posted at

    tweets: The Mogg makes a grand defence of tax avoidance, says "the most respectable families" do it. Osborne squirms, says he's "not going there".
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Sean_F said:

    I don't want to get into a flame war about Peak Kipper or not, but I am right in thinking, UKIP haven't been as visible as much recently, whilst the big two kick lumps out of each other.

    So we've seen UKIP going down, and the big two on the up.

    Given the format of the debates was the Cameron v Miliband head to head to be the final debate, a week before election day, perhaps UKIP have dodged a bullet with the likelihood of no debates.

    UKIP haven't been as visible but I think that's partly a deliberate strategy (and partly the natural squeeze of the election). The question will be as to how much purchase they can get later.
    Yep - UKIP have been jaw droppingly invisible.
    Plus Chelsea fan and £9k Farage claim for non existent rent invisible.
    So, despite several newspapers emphasising that the Chelsea fan in question was not involved in the racial abuse, you continue to smear him.
    You can emphasise him how you like but he, Farage's claim and Farage's local party have not been invisible.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    philiph said:

    I've filed this one under Counter intuitive.

    Lab UK lead 4% - that could be accurate
    England only Lab Lead 6%
    The implication is Cons are doing better than Lab in Scotland and Wales. Even with a Lab meltdown North and West, that is counter intuitive.

    As NickP says upthread, the polls are not weighted to be representative within each area. So necessarily if disproportionately many AB's with 3 cars are polled in Scotland then the AB's with 3 cars in the South East get downweighted too.

    Hence you get a domino effect between regions (or between the sexes, for that matter) whereby if you get an unusual result one way in one subsample it will probably be balanced by another "outlier" elsewhere.

    To get a proper England-only picture you need to weight just the England data to England demographics (i.e. an England-only poll).
    The problem is that the companies are trying to run National polls with two completely segmented portions. I can understand why the companies insist on continuing with this as it is cheaper than having to run a full (or at least 500 sample) Scottish poll to get a proper national picture.

    But it is likely to be the source of all the fluctuations being seen in these polls and until they make such a change, the national polls will b fundamentally flawed.
    The polling companies should just give up on Scotland and Wales, as they have mostly done with Northern Ireland, and produce England-only opinion polls. They can then poll the other bits of the UK in their own right, rather than as a tiny subsample of a GB poll.
    That's not going to be of much use for the headlines the next day. It's pretty safe to exclude NI because the 13 MPs (that actually turn up) are not likely to have much impact on the election.

    Losing 40 Welsh and 59 Scottish seats will make the England only poll pretty much meaningless for indicating the next government, which would seem to be the Newspapers point in paying for the polls. I'd also argue that Wales is not dissimilar to anywhere in England with a higher Labour lead over Tory. Plaid are small enough to not undermine the result.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,386
    edited February 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    GIN1138 said:

    It almost seems like news from another age.

    James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 6m6 minutes ago
    Breaking: Andy Coulson will stand trial in Scotland on charges of perjury on 21 April 2015

    This alleged perjury took place whilst he was serving in Number 10.

    Just what Dave wants during the tail end of the campaign
    I wonder whether the first day of the trial will see an adjournment until after the election?
    Why would the Scottish legal system concern itself with that ?
    There's bound to be a lot of chatter and speculation within the media with a general election campaign going on...

    Presumably the judge won't want the trial taking place at a time when outside issues could affect the outcome?
  • These Ashcroft polls strike me as so wacky as to be totally useless.

    I think we'll look back on them in six months and say, Angus Reid.
  • RobD said:

    Dair said:

    philiph said:

    I've filed this one under Counter intuitive.

    Lab UK lead 4% - that could be accurate
    England only Lab Lead 6%
    The implication is Cons are doing better than Lab in Scotland and Wales. Even with a Lab meltdown North and West, that is counter intuitive.

    As NickP says upthread, the polls are not weighted to be representative within each area. So necessarily if disproportionately many AB's with 3 cars are polled in Scotland then the AB's with 3 cars in the South East get downweighted too.

    Hence you get a domino effect between regions (or between the sexes, for that matter) whereby if you get an unusual result one way in one subsample it will probably be balanced by another "outlier" elsewhere.

    To get a proper England-only picture you need to weight just the England data to England demographics (i.e. an England-only poll).
    The problem is that the companies are trying to run National polls with two completely segmented portions. I can understand why the companies insist on continuing with this as it is cheaper than having to run a full (or at least 500 sample) Scottish poll to get a proper national picture.

    But it is likely to be the source of all the fluctuations being seen in these polls and until they make such a change, the national polls will b fundamentally flawed.
    The method is fine for the major parties as Scotland & Wales are relatively small proportions of the country, and MOE will tend to overwhelm any effect.

    But it's worth noting that the "7% Tory lead over Labour" in Scotland actually comes from 51 weighted respondents splitting thus:

    SNP 22
    Con 13
    Lab 10
    LD 5
    Clearly wrong, there aren't even thirteen Tories in Scotland (I could only wish there were that many)
    115 Tory councillors were elected in Scotland in 2012... :)
  • antifrank said:

    The New Statesman have republished a piece from a defeated Labour MP in the wake of the 1983 debacle. Some lessons here for both main parties; Labour's 1980/81 experience is precisely why this is not a "good election to lose".

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/02/christopher-price-reflections-landslide

    This really isn't a good election to lose anyway. As we start 2015, the economic conditions that the incoming government will inherit are about as benign as could reasonably be hoped for - good growth, inflation firmly under control, employment surging, wage growth starting to appear. Yes, there's a big deficit that needs dealing with, but that should be manageable if growth continues on its current path.
    I believe the preferred Tory term is a "golden inheritance".
  • RobD said:

    Dair said:

    philiph said:

    I've filed this one under Counter intuitive.

    Lab UK lead 4% - that could be accurate
    England only Lab Lead 6%
    The implication is Cons are doing better than Lab in Scotland and Wales. Even with a Lab meltdown North and West, that is counter intuitive.

    As NickP says upthread, the polls are not weighted to be representative within each area. So necessarily if disproportionately many AB's with 3 cars are polled in Scotland then the AB's with 3 cars in the South East get downweighted too.

    Hence you get a domino effect between regions (or between the sexes, for that matter) whereby if you get an unusual result one way in one subsample it will probably be balanced by another "outlier" elsewhere.

    To get a proper England-only picture you need to weight just the England data to England demographics (i.e. an England-only poll).
    The problem is that the companies are trying to run National polls with two completely segmented portions. I can understand why the companies insist on continuing with this as it is cheaper than having to run a full (or at least 500 sample) Scottish poll to get a proper national picture.

    But it is likely to be the source of all the fluctuations being seen in these polls and until they make such a change, the national polls will b fundamentally flawed.
    The method is fine for the major parties as Scotland & Wales are relatively small proportions of the country, and MOE will tend to overwhelm any effect.

    But it's worth noting that the "7% Tory lead over Labour" in Scotland actually comes from 51 weighted respondents splitting thus:

    SNP 22
    Con 13
    Lab 10
    LD 5
    Clearly wrong, there aren't even thirteen Tories in Scotland (I could only wish there were that many)
    15 Tories were elected to Holyrood in 2011 :)
  • RobD said:

    Dair said:

    philiph said:

    I've filed this one under Counter intuitive.

    Lab UK lead 4% - that could be accurate
    England only Lab Lead 6%
    The implication is Cons are doing better than Lab in Scotland and Wales. Even with a Lab meltdown North and West, that is counter intuitive.

    As NickP says upthread, the polls are not weighted to be representative within each area. So necessarily if disproportionately many AB's with 3 cars are polled in Scotland then the AB's with 3 cars in the South East get downweighted too.

    Hence you get a domino effect between regions (or between the sexes, for that matter) whereby if you get an unusual result one way in one subsample it will probably be balanced by another "outlier" elsewhere.

    To get a proper England-only picture you need to weight just the England data to England demographics (i.e. an England-only poll).
    The problem is that the companies are trying to run National polls with two completely segmented portions. I can understand why the companies insist on continuing with this as it is cheaper than having to run a full (or at least 500 sample) Scottish poll to get a proper national picture.

    But it is likely to be the source of all the fluctuations being seen in these polls and until they make such a change, the national polls will b fundamentally flawed.
    The method is fine for the major parties as Scotland & Wales are relatively small proportions of the country, and MOE will tend to overwhelm any effect.

    But it's worth noting that the "7% Tory lead over Labour" in Scotland actually comes from 51 weighted respondents splitting thus:

    SNP 22
    Con 13
    Lab 10
    LD 5
    Clearly wrong, there aren't even thirteen Tories in Scotland (I could only wish there were that many)
    Plus the lone MP and MEP :)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041

    RobD said:

    Dair said:

    philiph said:

    I've filed this one under Counter intuitive.

    Lab UK lead 4% - that could be accurate
    England only Lab Lead 6%
    The implication is Cons are doing better than Lab in Scotland and Wales. Even with a Lab meltdown North and West, that is counter intuitive.

    As NickP says upthread, the polls are not weighted to be representative within each area. So necessarily if disproportionately many AB's with 3 cars are polled in Scotland then the AB's with 3 cars in the South East get downweighted too.

    Hence you get a domino effect between regions (or between the sexes, for that matter) whereby if you get an unusual result one way in one subsample it will probably be balanced by another "outlier" elsewhere.

    To get a proper England-only picture you need to weight just the England data to England demographics (i.e. an England-only poll).
    The problem is that the companies are trying to run National polls with two completely segmented portions. I can understand why the companies insist on continuing with this as it is cheaper than having to run a full (or at least 500 sample) Scottish poll to get a proper national picture.

    But it is likely to be the source of all the fluctuations being seen in these polls and until they make such a change, the national polls will b fundamentally flawed.
    The method is fine for the major parties as Scotland & Wales are relatively small proportions of the country, and MOE will tend to overwhelm any effect.

    But it's worth noting that the "7% Tory lead over Labour" in Scotland actually comes from 51 weighted respondents splitting thus:

    SNP 22
    Con 13
    Lab 10
    LD 5
    Clearly wrong, there aren't even thirteen Tories in Scotland (I could only wish there were that many)
    115 Tory councillors were elected in Scotland in 2012... :)
    Not possible......
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Low pay commision says raise the minium wage by 3%.

    Well above inflation.
  • I don't want to get into a flame war about Peak Kipper or not, but I am right in thinking, UKIP haven't been as visible as much recently, whilst the big two kick lumps out of each other.

    So we've seen UKIP going down, and the big two on the up.

    Given the format of the debates was the Cameron v Miliband head to head to be the final debate, a week before election day, perhaps UKIP have dodged a bullet with the likelihood of no debates.

    UKIP had a lot of media coverage thanks to the by-elections in the autumn of 2012 - and went up in the polls. The same happened in advance of the local elections in 2013, the Euro elections in 2014 and following the defections of Carswell and Reckless in autumn 2014.

    Thus it's not surprising that they should gently subside in the polls over the last couple of months when they have less media coverage. The questions then are: how much media coverage will UKIP receive in the general election campaign, and what effect will that have on their level of support?

    Given the OFCOM rules designating them as a major party, the track record of the Liberal Democrats benefiting from more media time as a result in the campaigns for previous general elections and UKIPs own record of benefiting from increased media coverage and it seems entirely reasonable to me to expect that UKIPs support will rise as the general election campaign proper kicks off.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited February 2015
    GIN1138 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    GIN1138 said:

    It almost seems like news from another age.

    James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 6m6 minutes ago
    Breaking: Andy Coulson will stand trial in Scotland on charges of perjury on 21 April 2015

    This alleged perjury took place whilst he was serving in Number 10.

    Just what Dave wants during the tail end of the campaign
    I wonder whether the first day of the trial will see an adjournment until after the election?
    Why would the Scottish legal system concern itself with that ?
    There's bound to be a lot of chatter and speculation within the media with a general election campaign going on...

    Presumably the judge won't want the trial taking place at a time when outside issues could affect the outcome?
    The judge wouldn't get to say unless the Fiscal or the Defender asked for it. I am not certain of Coulson's current relationship and how he feels about being left to hang out to dry. I don't see any compelling reason for Frank Mulholland to request a Sist either, even assuming he is as Independent as he is supposed to be.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,386
    TGOHF said:

    Low pay commision says raise the minium wage by 3%.

    Well above inflation.

    Any chance the coalition would go for this in their last budget?

  • TGOHF said:

    Low pay commision says raise the minium wage by 3%.

    Well above inflation.

    How does that compare with MPs' pay or Bankers' Bonuses?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    Sean_F said:

    I don't want to get into a flame war about Peak Kipper or not, but I am right in thinking, UKIP haven't been as visible as much recently, whilst the big two kick lumps out of each other.

    So we've seen UKIP going down, and the big two on the up.

    Given the format of the debates was the Cameron v Miliband head to head to be the final debate, a week before election day, perhaps UKIP have dodged a bullet with the likelihood of no debates.

    UKIP haven't been as visible but I think that's partly a deliberate strategy (and partly the natural squeeze of the election). The question will be as to how much purchase they can get later.
    Yep - UKIP have been jaw droppingly invisible.
    Plus Chelsea fan and £9k Farage claim for non existent rent invisible.
    So, despite several newspapers emphasising that the Chelsea fan in question was not involved in the racial abuse, you continue to smear him.
    You can emphasise him how you like but he, Farage's claim and Farage's local party have not been invisible.
    And what is so dreadful about Farage claiming an allowance that he's entitled to?

  • GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Low pay commision says raise the minium wage by 3%.

    Well above inflation.

    Any chance the coalition would go for this in their last budget?

    Dead cert, I'd have thought.
  • These Ashcroft polls strike me as so wacky as to be totally useless.

    I think we'll look back on them in six months and say, Angus Reid.

    I find your lack of faith disturbing...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Low pay commision says raise the minium wage by 3%.

    Well above inflation.

    How does that compare with MPs' pay or Bankers' Bonuses?
    I am not aware that Govt sets the level of bankers bonuses or MPs pay..
  • TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Low pay commision says raise the minium wage by 3%.

    Well above inflation.

    How does that compare with MPs' pay or Bankers' Bonuses?
    I am not aware that Govt sets the level of bankers bonuses or MPs pay..
    I was talking about the 3% figure...
  • Frankly this poll is absurd. It shows Labour are 15 points ahead of the Tories (43% to 28%) in the South East.

    Pink elephants have now joined the pigs flying over Westminster........
  • Just for "fun", if we "re-weight" Ashcroft's Scotland figures to the most recent Scotland-only poll, Labour gain 5 respondents and the Tories lose 5 in Scotland.

    Similar we can deduce 5 Welsh Tories and 7 Welsh Labour respondents, out of 25 Welsh respondents overall. Re-weighting to the most recent Wales-only poll the Tories gain one respondent to 6 and Labour gain 2 to 9.

    Overall the Tories are 4 "over-represented" in {Wales and Scotland} and Labour are 7 "under-represented".

    So to "correct" that we reverse the representation in the England data, making the Tories 153+4 = 157 and Labour 179-7 = 172. That changes the non-adjusted England numbers from C32 L38 to C33 L37 (though the "gap" is only actually 3 due to rounding).

    Not very scientific, obviously, but it goes to show that "England-only" data should be discounted, especially if the Scottish subsample looks odd.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Low pay commision says raise the minium wage by 3%.

    Well above inflation.

    How does that compare with MPs' pay or Bankers' Bonuses?
    I am not aware that Govt sets the level of bankers bonuses or MPs pay..
    I was talking about the 3% figure...
    It is well above the average wage rise.

    AND - of course with the rising tax allowance they get to keep more of this than workers who take home more.

    So happy days all round - unless you are Mike Ashley.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    Frankly this poll is absurd. It shows Labour are 15 points ahead of the Tories (43% to 28%) in the South East.

    Pink elephants have now joined the pigs flying over Westminster........

    One shouldn't pay too much attention to the sub-samples. A Labour lead of 4% is quite consistent with an average of 0-1% (as are leads in the other direction).
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,975
    What wars have our pensioners fought in or was Cameron having a senior moment?
  • TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Low pay commision says raise the minium wage by 3%.

    Well above inflation.

    How does that compare with MPs' pay or Bankers' Bonuses?
    I am not aware that Govt sets the level of bankers bonuses or MPs pay..
    I was talking about the 3% figure...
    It is well above the average wage rise.

    AND - of course with the rising tax allowance they get to keep more of this than workers who take home more.

    So happy days all round - unless you are Mike Ashley.

    He will just squeeze the T&C's of his suppliers in the Far East some more.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    These Ashcroft polls strike me as so wacky as to be totally useless.

    I think we'll look back on them in six months and say, Angus Reid.

    I find your lack of faith disturbing...
    Quite so.

    Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Roger said:

    What wars have our pensioners fought in or was Cameron having a senior moment?

    WW 2, Korea

  • TGOHF said:

    It almost seems like news from another age.

    James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 6m6 minutes ago
    Breaking: Andy Coulson will stand trial in Scotland on charges of perjury on 21 April 2015

    This alleged perjury took place whilst he was serving in Number 10.

    Just what Dave wants during the tail end of the campaign
    I think he's in with a decent shout in this one - up against Tommy.
    Tommy v Andy?!

    Wouldn't mind a ringside seat for that one. Any chance they could both lose?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ishmael_X said:

    Roger said:

    What wars have our pensioners fought in or was Cameron having a senior moment?

    WW 2, Korea

    Falklands.

    Roger probably wasn't a fan of that war tho..
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited February 2015
    Smarmeron said:

    The "Mogg" is always value for money!

    Kerry McCarthy - Labour MP

    @KerryMP

    Posted at

    tweets: The Mogg makes a grand defence of tax avoidance, says "the most respectable families" do it. Osborne squirms, says he's "not going there".

    Odd. What was McCarthy watching? Osborne didn't look as if he was squirming, more like enjoying himself.

    Balls on the other hand, had a complete mare of an afternoon.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    TGOHF said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Roger said:

    What wars have our pensioners fought in or was Cameron having a senior moment?

    WW 2, Korea

    Falklands.

    Roger probably wasn't a fan of that war tho..
    Old Age Pensioners? Not very many yet
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited February 2015
    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Low pay commision says raise the minium wage by 3%.

    Well above inflation.

    Any chance the coalition would go for this in their last budget?

    Like scrapping the whole charade and leaving wages to the market?

    Cameron and Clegg still have a touching faith in the ability of quangos to do a useful job, I suppose that it is one way they can exert some patronage like Walpole or Henry Pelham.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Tories ahead with these

    http://electionforecast.co.uk/
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ishmael_X said:

    TGOHF said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Roger said:

    What wars have our pensioners fought in or was Cameron having a senior moment?

    WW 2, Korea

    Falklands.

    Roger probably wasn't a fan of that war tho..
    Old Age Pensioners? Not very many yet
    32.5 years ago - anyone over 33 at the time is now a pensioner.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/solomonhughes/nhs-contract-stoke All looks scrupulously above board with no conflict of interest, perceivable or otherwise.
  • Frankly this poll is absurd. It shows Labour are 15 points ahead of the Tories (43% to 28%) in the South East.

    Pink elephants have now joined the pigs flying over Westminster........

    Complete rubbish he should be embarrassed to have published it.
  • Smarmeron said:

    The "Mogg" is always value for money!

    Kerry McCarthy - Labour MP

    @KerryMP

    Posted at

    tweets: The Mogg makes a grand defence of tax avoidance, says "the most respectable families" do it. Osborne squirms, says he's "not going there".

    Odd. What was McCarthy watching? Osborne didn't look as if he was squirming, more like enjoying himself.

    Balls on the other hand, had a complete mare of an afternoon.
    The most respectable families? Who could he mean?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    Smarmeron said:

    The "Mogg" is always value for money!

    Kerry McCarthy - Labour MP

    @KerryMP

    Posted at

    tweets: The Mogg makes a grand defence of tax avoidance, says "the most respectable families" do it. Osborne squirms, says he's "not going there".

    Odd. What was McCarthy watching? Osborne didn't look as if he was squirming, more like enjoying himself.

    Balls on the other hand, had a complete mare of an afternoon.
    The most respectable families? Who could he mean?
    Miliband.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    Frankly this poll is absurd. It shows Labour are 15 points ahead of the Tories (43% to 28%) in the South East.

    Pink elephants have now joined the pigs flying over Westminster........

    Complete rubbish he should be embarrassed to have published it.
    One subsample in isolation doesn't mean anything.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited February 2015

    Smarmeron said:

    The "Mogg" is always value for money!

    Kerry McCarthy - Labour MP

    @KerryMP

    Posted at

    tweets: The Mogg makes a grand defence of tax avoidance, says "the most respectable families" do it. Osborne squirms, says he's "not going there".

    Odd. What was McCarthy watching? Osborne didn't look as if he was squirming, more like enjoying himself.

    Balls on the other hand, had a complete mare of an afternoon.
    The most respectable families? Who could he mean?
    Well, I could be wrong, but Osborne may have taken the opportunity to refer to the LOTO...
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TheWatcher
    Never saw it myself, but the transcript clearly shows that Ozzie was talking his usual load of bull droppings.
  • Frankly this poll is absurd. It shows Labour are 15 points ahead of the Tories (43% to 28%) in the South East.

    Pink elephants have now joined the pigs flying over Westminster........

    Complete rubbish he should be embarrassed to have published it.
    If you can't understand subsamples then perhaps you shouldn't post about them?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Frankly this poll is absurd. It shows Labour are 15 points ahead of the Tories (43% to 28%) in the South East.

    Pink elephants have now joined the pigs flying over Westminster........

    Complete rubbish he should be embarrassed to have published it.
    Another thing we agree on.

    All LARGER polls are a complete joke
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    Frankly this poll is absurd. It shows Labour are 15 points ahead of the Tories (43% to 28%) in the South East.

    Pink elephants have now joined the pigs flying over Westminster........

    Complete rubbish he should be embarrassed to have published it.
    Another thing we agree on.

    All LARGER polls are a complete joke
    Nope.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Low pay commision says raise the minium wage by 3%.

    Well above inflation.

    Any chance the coalition would go for this in their last budget?

    Any chance they won't??
  • Had to drop off the previous thread but I wanted to just come back to those who objected to my characterising UKIP and Labour supporters as morally ugly and morally incompetent.

    Re the first, there is simply too much UKIP corruption, racism and homophobia smoke to argue there's no fire. It has got to the point where to suggest otherwise simply prompts laughter.

    Re the Labour case, don't take it from me; take it, first of all, from Austin Mitchell, MP:
    "Even if we selected a raving alcoholic sex paedophile we wouldn't lose Grimsby" - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/labour-mp-austin-mitchell-even-if-we-selected-a-raving-alcoholic-sex-paedophile-we-wouldnt-lose-grimsby-10061754.html

    ..which is, as far as I know, the first horse's-mouth actual boast that Labour voters will elect a paedophile, as long as they're a Labour paedophile.

    This is not just a straw in the wind, in the way that the BBC's blind eye to Labour-supporting paedophile Jimmy Savile was a straw in the wind. This isn't an allegation by someone hostile to Labour designed simply to wind up Labour supporters. This is a statement of the facts by someone who's not trying to damage or insult the party and who benefits from this attitude.

    Exhibit two is the fact that the voters of Rotherham replaced the disgraced Labour PCC with another Labour PCC. This is wholly of a piece with Austin Mitchell's view of them.

    This tolerance of the most abject conceivable moral incompetence is, I am afraid, a Labour-specific problem. As I have pointed out before, there are examples of Tory voters who have turned on their MP in disgust merely for being a trougher (Neil Hamilton), there are examples of Lib Dem voters who have turned on their MP for merely having been suspected of an unpleasant crime (Jeremy Thorpe), and where they have very nearly lost the seat because of similar revulsion (Eastleigh). With the Greens and the regional parties, the sample is too small.

    But as far as I am aware, there is no example of Labour losing a seat that you'd expect them to have kept, where the loss was patently because of the disgusting personal behaviour of the MP. Ed Miliband is at no risk of losing his seat because of his tax fiddling; Ed Balls didn't lose his seat in 2010 despite his home-flipping and troughing.

    So it is a Labour-voter problem, I'm afraid, and it's just the bit of the moral ineptitude iceberg that sticks up above the surface.
This discussion has been closed.